Audio is streamed directly from the publisher (mcdn.podbean.com) as published in their RSS feed. Play Podcasts does not host this file. Rights-holders can request removal through the copyright & takedown page.
Show Notes
163. Beneficial Rhythms in Marriage with Chris and Jenni Graebe
“Teach us to number our days, that we may gain a heart of wisdom.” Psalm 90:12 (NIV)
*Transcription Below*
Questions We Discuss:
-
What marital habits are worthy of prioritizing for the two of you and what return have you seen on this investment?
-
How can couples begin to take inventory of their current marriage and then move towards purposefully implementing healthier rhythms into their relationship?
-
What are some examples of ways the two of you serve each other and stay committed to one another’s well-being and flourishing?
Chris and Jenni Graebe are lifelong learners intent on discovering the core rhythms of thriving relationships. Chris and Jenni are the cohosts of The Live it Well podcast, where they interview countless couples to discover what makes relationships thrive. They live deep in the trees of Franklin, TN, with their five children.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
163. Beneficial Rhythms in Marriage with Chris and Jenni Graebe
“Teach us to number our days, that we may gain a heart of wisdom.” Psalm 90:12 (NIV)
*Transcription Below*
Questions We Discuss:
-
What marital habits are worthy of prioritizing for the two of you and what return have you seen on this investment?
-
How can couples begin to take inventory of their current marriage and then move towards purposefully implementing healthier rhythms into their relationship?
-
What are some examples of ways the two of you serve each other and stay committed to one another’s well-being and flourishing?
Chris and Jenni Graebe are lifelong learners intent on discovering the core rhythms of thriving relationships. Chris and Jenni are the cohosts of The Live it Well podcast, where they interview countless couples to discover what makes relationships thrive. They live deep in the trees of Franklin, TN, with their five children.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
Laura Dugger: I am thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, Winshape Marriage. Their weekend retreats will strengthen your marriage, and you will enjoy this gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at winshapemarriage.org. That's winshapemarriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.
First, I want to say happy birthday to my sweet mom. She is the most loving, nurturing, and kind-hearted mom, and we want to honor her on her special day. So, from our editor, Natalie, and myself, happy birthday, mom. We love you.
I now also get to host a charming couple today, and we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics, healthy rhythms in marriage.
Chris and Jenni Graebe are my guests, and they love each other well, model what they teach to others, and they've written down their wisdom in a marriage book they recently released. [00:01:26] I hope this chat leaves you encouraged and equipped with conversation starters and thought-provoking questions to ask yourself and your spouse as you enjoy all the goodness God has to offer us in marriage. Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Chris and Jenni.
Chris Graebe: Hey.
Jenni Graebe: Thank you so much for having us, Laura.
Laura Dugger: Yes, so excited to talk with the two of you. Will you both just give a glimpse of your current phase of life?
Jenni Graebe: Oh, sure. It's a wild season of life for us. We have five kids ranging from four to 16, one boy and four girls. So we've got two teenagers and three little ones, and it is just a beautiful, chaotic season.
Chris Graebe: Yeah, filled with a lot of carpooling and running around, but just stealing away moments of just fun and trying as best we can to soak up all the different seasons collectively together. Like last night we had the opportunity to sit on our back porch where the kids played and laughed and danced and had the cafe lights on. [00:02:28] You know, those are the moments. So that's a quick glimpse into our world. There may be a lot too many dishes in the sink, but, you know, other than that, it's a good life.
Laura Dugger: Absolutely. Can you share a little bit more about your careers too? Because you've been on this path of, in your marriage, moving around multiple times, so your seasons have looked different. But what do the two of you do for work?
Chris Graebe: Yeah, sure. I mean, look, you know, when Jenni married me, you're going to talk about this book we've written, but one of the things we talk about is this idea of adventure. So when we got married, she knew she was signing up for adventure, and so we decided just let's go for it.
So we've lived all over the place, both of the coast, the middle of the country, a lot of time in Texas. Throughout those seasons, it was seasons of ministry and entrepreneurship. In my very early days, I was on this little TV network called MTV. I was on a show called Road Rules. Jenni was a singer in those days, and she was wearing pleather pants. [00:03:29]
Jenni Graebe: Let's not mention the pleather pants. You know, let's be nice.
Chris Graebe: So we've just had this wild ride. And so now where we find ourselves is, obviously, we have a podcast called The Rhythm of Us. We're authors. We did this book, The Rhythm of Us, you know, I'm an entrepreneur through and through, so I've got a couple ventures that I'm working on. So there's never a dull moment in our life.
Jenni Graebe: Never a dull moment, for sure.
Laura Dugger: Yes, it sounds very full. We won't digress too much, but I'm sure everybody asks, how did you get on Road Rules?
Chris Graebe: Is it weird to say Jesus? I mean, it's like, I don't know. Did God do that?
Jenni Graebe: It was a God deal.
Chris Graebe: It was totally a God deal, you know. I mean, my whole thing was... as a kid growing up in the 80s and 90s, MTV was at the height, was at the pinnacle. It was the early reality show before all the spinoffs had come, and I just... I don't know, God had wired me to ultimately I sit in front of a microphone now, and, you know, obviously through this and various different places He's put me on stages throughout my career. But as a young, influential whatever, you want to change the world. [00:04:33] And so, like, what's a place I could go that could happen and I don't have to have a lot of skills? I could just go be crazy on MTV.
So anyway, luckily I had encountered Jesus right before I went on the show and had the opportunity to share my faith and my walk and just hopefully honor God throughout that adventure. So that's how that worked. It was a wild ride. But, you know, those days are gone that people stop me on the street and go, were you the guy from...? So I don't get a lot of those anymore.
Laura Dugger: Which I'm sure with that transition into marriage that was a very unique element for the two of you.
Jenni Graebe: It was.
Laura Dugger: It was for sure.
Chris Graebe: Well, yeah. I mean, you know, the funny thing is, just to kind of talk about the idea of adventure, is I had done a couple little challenges. They have these big challenges return thing, and they called me and said, "Hey, we've got this challenge, Battle of the Sexes 2. Do you want to be a cast member on it?" I was like, "Heck yeah, that'd be awesome."
Well, we were engaged, and we were planning to get married. [00:05:31] We had a date on the calendar and everything, and they were like, "Hey, we picked you." And I'm like, "Oh, cool, when's the show?" They're like, "Well, it starts two weeks before your marriage." I was like, "Oh, for my wedding day?" "Yeah." "Okay. How's that going to work?" So I went and filmed for two weeks. Jenni was a trooper. I hadn't gotten kicked off yet, so I flew back that weekend. We got married, and then I went back to the show for three days.
And then just said, "Kick me off. I've got to go be with my bride." But yeah, it was an adventure from the beginning, that's for sure.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Well, you've documented some of that journey, because your marriage book is fantastic.
Jenni Graebe: Oh, thank you.
Laura Dugger: Yes, I mean that. It's called Rhythms of Us: Creating the Thriving Marriage You Long For. So because you wrote the book on it, I'd love to know what marital habits are worthy of prioritizing for the two of you and what return have you seen on that investment?
Jenni Graebe: That's a great question. [00:06:31] Really, the whole idea of this book is not just cataloging the rhythms that are true of us, but also of the wise people around us. We've been married 17 years, and that is a good amount of time. But also, we have been blessed with so many couples that God has put in our life that have a lot of fruit in their lives.
They're the kind of couples that just stop you in their tracks, because they're still somehow wildly in love after decades of marriage. And those are the kind of people that we want to learn from, we want to sit with, we want to lean into learning their rhythms.
So we try to find that balance in this book of finding those rhythms that are true, not just of us, but of the couples in our lives that have incredible marriages. And how can we find the top five rhythms that really have carried them and base the book around those? So that's what we did. We found five rhythms that are true of those couples and that have brought a lot of fruit in our marriage as well, and based it around those. [00:07:32]
Laura Dugger: And on page 14, you write, "Before we can fill our lives with the rhythms we value most, it's important to identify the practices we don't." Now that makes me curious, what are some examples of practices that you've realized you don't value and you don't want to value?
Jenni Graebe: That's a great question. I think there's so many. After 17 years, there's been a lot of ups and downs, obviously. We talk about in the book that there are certain rhythms, certain habits that might be good in the beginning of your marriage, but after 17 years and five kids, we have to shift. We have to look at our lives and ask, Okay, is this good for us now? What are some of those things that we need to let go of that used to bring fruit in our lives, but they're no longer bringing fruit?
That could be anything from spending all day Saturday going to play basketball with friends at the gym. That was fine when we were first married because it was just the two of us. But now with five kids, giving up a whole Saturday of family time to go play basketball with friends is just not a rhythm that would bring life to us, to our marriage, or to our family. [00:08:42] So that's something that we needed to let go of.
Chris Graebe: Yeah. I mean, you could equate it to somebody listening here thinking like, you know, golf is great. People love golf, but I can't imagine telling Jenni, Hey, I'm going to leave for five hours on these two days where our kids aren't in school and we all have each other. I'm not saying that you don't go play basketball here and there, or golf here and there. But I think it's just starting to acknowledge like, Hey, you know, this season has changed. Our seasons have changed. Our kids have different needs. Our marriage has different needs. What is that thing that... you know, we talk about where rhythms become ruts in the book? You know, what are some of those things that have kind of become a rut and aren't really bringing life to our marriage?
At the end of the day, hopefully the longer you're in this thing, the more you start to take your eyes off yourself. Because, you know, we got married at 24, you know. It's like your still eyes are pretty much on yourself. So we've been working through that over 17 years and still plenty to go.
But you start to appreciate the moments you have with your family, the same you did with basketball, if not more, especially as you have teenagers that start to getting close to exiting the building. [00:09:49] You're like, Oh my gosh, I've got two years left with this kid. And it's a really crazy dynamic to then turn and look at the 4-year-old and go, I know how fast this is going to go. This is just as important as basketball or golf. Those things are great. But how do I cherish these moments just like I cherish those and find these new rhythms in a new season?
Laura Dugger: I think that you're just bringing to life 1 Corinthians 13. And I'm just going to paraphrase. I do not have it memorized. But as we're talking about hobbies for either spouse, it says something about when I was a child, I spoke as a child, I thought as a child, I reasoned as a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Jenni Graebe: Right.
Laura Dugger: To me, it doesn't mean that golf or basketball are childish. But like you're saying, you're choosing what that is the love chapter. So you're choosing love and others over some hobby that only benefits you at that time. So then it sounds like these rhythms they're transferring to still maybe you enjoy those recreational things, but you do this more together. [00:10:48]
So I'm wondering, though, for the couple listening, maybe they're on more of a parallel trajectory, and whether they have kids in the home or not, how do you recommend they start to make these discoveries? First of, what rhythms are in their life currently that are not beneficial?
Jenni Graebe: Yeah, there's a great tool that we talk about in the book that actually comes from one of our favorite psychologists, Dr. Henry Cloud. And it's called Find the Misery and Make a Rule, which sounds very lofty, but it's very simple. All it means is that you take a look at your life and you recognize those pain points that keep showing up over and over and over. And then you follow the trail of that to the root.
If you can, you can try to set a limit or make a rule there to keep that from happening. This is something that we use constantly in our lives, from big things to small things. I'll give you a couple examples.
One of the things that kept coming up in our marriage pretty early on was that as a stay-at-home mom with a bunch of little kids that I absolutely love and adore and that I was grateful to spend my weeks with, come Thursday, I was absolutely exhausted. [00:11:59] I was ready for a break, and it showed in the way that I was living my life.
Chris Graebe: No, no, it was fine.
Jenni Graebe: It was something that we could all recognize. To make a rule against that exhaustion coming out against my family, Chris very lovingly said, "Hey, every Friday we're going to start something. You need to go and just get a couple hours just by yourself to fill back up. Do whatever brings you life, whatever refuels your tank."
And for me, that usually looks like going and finding a pretty trail out in the trees that I can walk. It looks like spending time with the Lord at a coffee shop where I can just think complete thoughts without interruptions. And I'm telling you, that has made the biggest difference in our life, in our marriage. I always come back a better mom, I always come back a better spouse, and just feeling more alive and ready to jump back in with time with my family. [00:12:58]
But it took us really examining our life and our rhythms to go, Okay, let's just look at this. Every Thursday I am feeling exhausted. I'm feeling miserable. I'm feeling like I need something to change here. And then putting a rule in place where, Okay, this is something that we can practice, that we can prioritize as a family so that you can thrive as well.
Chris Graebe: Another example just for everybody listening is, you know, you hear all these people have a lot of issues with family, like extended family. Like, okay, you get married, you get in, and it's like, Oh, okay, we've got 15 things we have to go through for Thanksgiving. We have to go to this house for Thanksgiving and this house, and they'll be so mad if we don't do X, Y, and Z.
I think one of the things we kind of established early on, I don't know if it was like we kind of knew how intentional it was being, but we just decided to put some boundaries there and go like, Look, everyone loves each other. We're all for each other. We can't make everyone happy all the time. So what's the best thing we can do? What are some boundaries or some rules or some principles we can put in place that for our family is a rule that we can follow and then go, Hey, rest of the family, we love you and we look forward to seeing you. We have a blast when we're together. [00:14:07] But here's some boundaries we're setting in place. Because sometimes you can find a lot of misery in that you're trying to please everyone, make everyone happy, get on time with this person's house. Like you have gifts for everybody, you know, the whole thing. It just can be wild.
I'm sure everyone listening has no clue what I'm talking about in this regard, but it's definitely... that's just another practical example of how you can find the misery, make a rule. Ultimately it brings life for yourself, your spouse and everyone involved when you're able to kind of put the right rules in place and operate in essence the way God's called you to walk.
Laura Dugger: These are such wise principles. And I love how you say that the two of you examined your rhythms. What did that actually look like? I'm wondering, did you go on a date night to do this? Is this after the kids are in bed? But how did you do it and how can other couples begin to take inventory of their marriage and then move toward purposefully implementing healthier rhythms into their relationship? [00:15:03]
Jenni Graebe: That's a great question. Actually, the last part of the book is just this exactly. There are three sections walking you through different questions that you can ask each other that really help you pinpoint the rhythms that bring you both life. There's a section in there where you can talk through the vision that you both have for your marriage so that you make sure you're actually trying to head in the right direction and you're going the same place. You're not having two separate different visions of your marriage and then wondering why the other one can't get on the same page. So that is really helpful.
I think for us, we love talking. We have a podcast where we talk to guests and all kinds of things, but we've always enjoyed just talking with each other and having great conversations. So, for us, that looks like at least a couple of times a week, you can find us in the mornings with our hot cups of coffee in our chairs, having a great talk.
That is usually where we really hash through some of these things that are coming up in our hearts, in our lives, in our family, where we examine, you know, things that have come up during the week, whether it's a rut or rhythm. [00:16:09]
You know, there's definitely room to talk about the great things that are happening in our life. Like Chris mentioned, sitting outside with our kids watching them play underneath the cafe lights. That brings us so much life. We're like, We've got to do this more. We have to make space for this more so that we can enjoy this.
And there's also pain points that we can talk through like, okay, Hey, when you came in the door this week on your phone, that really stole away from us getting you all to ourselves. So let's put a rhythm in place or let's put a rule in place where, all right, you can finish up all of your work stuff before you walk in the door so that we can just have you all to ourselves as soon as you come to the door.
Chris Graebe: We are trying to give people a framework where they can have an honest, open conversation and nobody's pointing the finger. Because when I asked the question, are you in rhythm or are you out of rhythm, people can immediately go, Well, you know what? We're in rhythm on budgeting, but we're really out of rhythm on communication or we're out of rhythm and intimacy, but we're in rhythm on working together with the kids. [00:17:07]
So really this book and the way we're approaching it and the idea of giving someone a framework is everyone is wired so differently. But if we can all come from this place to go, "Look, you're not the problem. I'm not the problem. This thing is out of rhythm. Now let's work together and have whatever the framework is that works best for us as a couple." The longer we're married, the more we understand. Don't talk to him at night cause he's sleepy. Don't try and catch her at the very beginning, right when she's waking up before she's had her coffee. Learn those spots where you can have that healthy conversation.
Some people need prep. Some people want to just dive in and talk. You start to understand that then you can really craft and go, Okay, I think we're out of rhythm over here.
You know, maybe one agrees or don't, but you did have a framework to say, well, let's just work through it and see how we can find ourselves back in rhythm so we both feel like we're thriving in this area of our marriage.
Laura Dugger: I love how you use that word "thriving". And I think that's really important because this model that you're laying out, to me, it sounds like such an exciting way to naturally minimize conflict while maximizing delight. [00:18:11] You're just being more intentional about how you spend your time in your lives together.
We won't go through all the rhythms because people have to read the book to get that. But one of them is speaking life. I'd just love to hear how the two of you practice that valued rhythm of speaking life.
Jenni Graebe: This is this idea of choosing intentionally to speak words of life over your marriage, over your spouse, and then eventually over your family when you have kids or if you do. It's so important. Really, just like the Bible says, we have the power to choose blessing or cursing. We have the power to create that culture in our marriage by the words that we speak.
This was something that Chris really did early on in our marriage, very naturally. And I talk about in the book how this was so hard for me to do at first because I just didn't grow up in a family where we did that. [00:19:11] We thought lots of wonderful things about each other, but we didn't actually speak them out loud a lot.
And so if you're not used to it, it can be kind of awkward at first. But over time, learning how to do that and seeing how easy it was for Chris and how much it meant to him. When I just took the time to speak out loud, the wonderful things I was already thinking about him, he just needed to hear that. And I needed to become the kind of person that could speak those words out loud to him. It changed me as well as I practiced it, and it shaped me to become the kind of person who could look for the good, look for the gifting in him, and speak it out loud.
Chris Graebe: Yeah. I imagine people are wondering, okay, we're really weak in this area of our marriage or whatever. Maybe the words we speak to each other are maybe snide, funny comments, or whatever. But this whole life thing, what do I do? Walk in, You are beautiful and wonderfully made. Not that.
The way it can play itself out is pretty simple. Like there's a moment where I'll catch her eye and we're sitting there at the dinner table and I just think to myself, man, she is so beautiful and I just stop and tell our kids, my guys, do you know how unbelievable beautiful and amazing your mom is? [00:20:25] And in that moment they're like, we know you always tell us. I'm like, that's right. You're never going to not hear me say that.
But in that moment, it's something I'm doing public in front of the kids or whatever, you know, but it's the seeds that are being sown all across the place for her, for them, that hopefully the example for their future spouse, that they will find someone that tells them that they are beautiful and lovely and thank them for the work that they're doing that no one sees, you know, when it's like, Hey, thank, thank you so much for doing the laundry today because, one, I hate the laundry, and two, this doesn't just get done by itself.
A lot of times that's just a thankless thing that no one sees. The kids are running up one, mom, thank you so much for doing my laundry today. Sometimes they do. But most of the times it's just like, oh, cool, there's magical clothes that show back up in this drawer. I think if we think it and we say it, it can start really practical, Hey, thank you so much. Depending on if you're in a rough spot in your marriage. Hey, I just want to say thank you for providing for us, for showing up every day and doing your job. [00:21:27]
And then you'll be amazed how that unlocks the heart just a little bit of someone who maybe is in this like couples, it's been in a tough spot and they haven't spoken life to each other in a really long time. You just like, okay, let's just type little what can I find that, that they're doing that I value and I appreciate. I'm going to speak this life and I'm going to sow a seed that's going to continue to crack the door just a little bit more. And you'll be amazed what reciprocation comes on the other side of that. It's going to take a little bit of practice, but once you get into it, you'll never want to stop.
Jenni Graebe: Yeah. I want to take a minute too, and just acknowledge that I get that there are moments in a marriage or there are seasons where it's really hard to find anything good to speak out loud, whatever the circumstances, whatever has led you there. I know there are really hard seasons in a marriage. And you might be listening thinking, I can't think of one nice thing to say about my spouse.
And I just want to encourage you there that what you lack, pray for. I love that's what the Bible says. [00:22:27] I just think that so many times. Like, what you lack, pray for it. Just ask God. The best place to start is prayer. Just ask God to help you see your spouse as he does. And there is always something good, even if it's small, just like Chris said, there is always something good that you can acknowledge.
In the book, we talk about three ways to do this. You can affirm the good, you can affirm the gift and you can affirm the truth. What that simply means is that you affirm the good by exactly what Chris said, just whatever good that you can possibly see as you're asking for God to give you eyes to see that, just speak it out loud.
If they're playing with the kids, just say, "Oh my gosh, you're such a great dad. Thanks for, thanks for being incredible. Thanks for playing with our kids." If they're doing the ditches, even if it's not the way that you would like them done, you can say, "Hey, thanks for helping out. That really means a lot." You affirm whatever good you see around you.
You can also take this to another level by affirming the gift in your spouse. Affirm the gifts and abilities and talents that you see. [00:23:29] Every single human has these things. God has given us all gifts and abilities. And how powerful for you as their spouse, the most important person in their life to be the one to acknowledge those things and to water those seeds that you see of gifting and dreams and abilities.
If you see that their eyes light up whenever they do something, you can say, Wow, I noticed like you just come alive doing this. Maybe there's something there. Maybe God's given you, you know, an ability here. What can we do to grow this and to water this?
Maybe every time you drive by a restaurant, they say, Oh man, wouldn't it be great to open a restaurant someday? You have the choice in that moment to either go, "Yeah, whatever," or say, "Tell me more about this. Is this a dream that you have? Like, is there something here that we could pursue together as a couple? You know?" So that's just an example of finding the gifting and affirming the gift.
And then the last one, which I think might be the most powerful, is affirming the truth. [00:24:31] So in hard seasons, when your spouse might not be acting the way that you wish they would or the way that they used to, you know who they truly are. You can ask God to remind you who they truly are. And then you can affirm who you know them to be instead of how they're acting.
I love what Henry Cloud says. That maturity in life and in marriage is being able to separate the people that we love from the behaviors that we don't. So in those seasons, we can look at how they're acting and we can separate that from who we really truly know them to be. And we can speak to that person. We can speak to the potential instead of to the behavior.
Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
[00:25:16] <music>
Sponsor: I'm so excited to share today's sponsor, Winshape Marriage with you. Winshape Marriage is a fantastic ministry that helps couples prepare, strengthen, and if needed, even save their marriage.
Winshape Marriage is grounded on the belief that the strongest marriages are the ones that are nurtured, even if it seems like things are going smoothly. That way they'll be stronger if they do hit a bump along their marital journey.
Through their weekend retreats, Winshape Marriage invites couples to enjoy time away to simply focus on each other. These weekend retreats are hosted within the beautiful refuge of Winshape Retreat, perched in the mountains of Rome, Georgia, which is just a short drive from Atlanta, Birmingham, and Chattanooga. While you and your spouse are there, you'll be well-fed, well-nurtured, and well-cared for.
During your time away in this beautiful place, you and your spouse will learn from expert speakers and explore topics related to intimacy, overcoming challenges, improving communication, and so much more. I've stayed on site at Winshape before, and I can attest to their generosity, food, and content. You will be so grateful you went.
To find an experience that's right for you and your spouse, head to their website, winshapemarriage.org. That's winshapemarriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.
[00:26:33] <music>
Laura Dugger: I love everything you're saying. I want to take it a step further because you've talked about the words that we can speak and how we can do this publicly and privately, and how really it kind of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where what you're seeing and calling out and speaking over your spouse, you get to see that rise up in them. That's the verbal part. But then the actionable part of serving each other, I'd love to hear some more of your practical examples. So what are ways that the two of you serve each other and stay committed to one another's well-being and flourishing?
Chris Graebe: I think that's one of these things... you know, Jenni talks about how, you know, speaking life and words, it wasn't really a thing for her. Serving was definitely Achilles heel for me. We got married at 24. Like I said, my eyes were pretty much fixed on myself and the idea of going and changing the world through career and all that.
So we had a kid pretty early on in our marriage and our son Caden, it was like, okay, well, we both agree you're going to stay home with him and I'm going to go out and do whatever. [00:27:39] The story is pretty typical for most. But I think through a season through over the season years and Jenni just like being so faithful and just so kind and generous with her time and patient with me is I'm like, maybe we're going to try this. Let's do that.
You talked about early in the beginning of the podcast, we moved across the country. We did. We moved all over the world, you know, all over the country. And it was fun and it was great. That was a part of Jenni serving me and some of the dreams and visions I had.
But I think the longer we're in this game and the more I continue to take my eyes off myself and look at her, yes, practically can play itself out in day-to-day tasks and chores. Like what needs to be done? You know, these dishes aren't going to be done by themselves. You need to do that. It also plays itself out and going like, Hey, just like we talk about the Fridays, like, Hey, I need you to have this Friday or whatever.
But the other thing is kind of what Jenni was talking about is this idea that there is this person that God has gifted you with. This person that He said, yeah, that's your spouse. And you said yes to them as well. [00:28:37] And marriage is such a gift. And the fact that somebody else said yes to you and they said yes to you again today because they showed up and they're there. Now, like Jenni said, it can be tough.
I think part of serving that we started to discover is like when I took my eyes off myself, I was able to look at Jenny and say, Hey, what are your dreams? What are the things that are inside of you that I can help bring to life and see become a reality?
That was something that I think... once that started to happen and she stepped into some things like the podcast we did and now we're writing this book, I think she even didn't even realize that there was something there that God had put inside her that she needed to do. And she kind of looked at me after one of our first podcasts and was like, don't ever let me not do something like this again. Don't ever let me not put my hands to something that I feel like I'm stepping into.
It's scary and it's challenging, but it's just amazing for me. On the other side is I served her and asked, you know, what is her dreams? And then seeing her step in and thrive, it was just truly a moment. [00:29:38] So there's just multiple ways we can serve our spouse. It's in the day-to-day. And then a lot of times it's in the dreamings, but at the same time, just recognizing them as such a gift from God is really true of the first step.
Jenni Graebe: Jan Peterson has a really small, great book on serving. That was kind of her gifting. But she says we all start off self-centered. Our wants are our world. That's just natural. And so it takes a lot of time and intentionality to learn a different way to live.
But what we say in the book is that, you know, no marriage can thrive when our eyes are consistently focused on ourselves. That is just a fact. If I continue to live ignoring my spouse's needs, that will eventually explode. Our marriage will not last if I'm not also considering his needs as well as mine.
Actually, the greatest joy is found when we are able to do just that, when we're able to shift our eyes from our own wants and needs to actually noticing and nurturing the needs of our spouse.
There's something we talk about in the book called the cycle of serving. So essentially, what that looks like is when we take a small step of noticing a need in our spouse that we can serve, shifting our eyes from our own needs, and we start to meet those needs. [00:30:56] Step by step, we move towards this place of strength and thriving in our marriage where we look up and go, how did I get so blessed to have this spouse? And I'm constantly looking at how I can meet their needs, and I'm so grateful that they're meeting my needs. It's wonderful.
Then the opposite is true as well, where if by step by step, over time, we make the choice to neglect our spouse's needs or to think only of ourselves, over time, where we end up is, man, I wish they would just wake up and meet my needs. And if you have thought that to yourself lately, it's a good indicator that you are at the bottom of that cycle.
But the good news is we are always one step away from moving back in the right direction towards the thriving marriage that we long for. And it all starts with just taking a moment to get my eyes off myself and noticing who my spouse is, how God's wired them, and how I can meet their needs in that place. [00:31:55]
Laura Dugger: Okay. As you're saying all of this, it seems like oftentimes the wife, especially in this situation that you're talking about, when she chooses to stay home with the kids, she is all in for supporting her husband's dreams and desires. And yet, Chris, you did an incredible job of humbly looking to her as well and calling out Jenni for she still has gifts that are beyond the children and maybe beyond the marriage that God has given her.
So you called that to life, but you helped her develop it. So would you just speak to the husbands now and talk about that responsibility and that privilege and the goodness that you've seen from committing to helping her pursue growth?
Chris Graebe: Yeah. I wish I could say, like, from day one, I was like, oh, man. But I think, you know, with anything, as we grew deeper together and walked through some hard seasons and different things like that, it was just like, wow. [00:32:55] Like, my love and my appreciation, my value for her just continued to increase.
You know, we had a season early on where we got pregnant, and then I think she was just going, like, you know, what about me? What about my identity? God put a season where things were tough, and so she had to kinda get a job. I was working during the night. She was working during the days. And I think it was a moment where she just said, "Okay. You know what? You go work. We'll stay home." That was kind of a gift that God gave us. And we didn't know, you know, is this forever kind of thing, but we just kinda dove headlong, five kids. I mean, we were in the thick of it.
But I think there's this place where it's like I look around at my wife and she'd be leading things at church and... she just was a magnet. People would be drawn to her. Jenni talked about giftings. I mean, she just got a lot of giftings. She's the one with the college degree. She's the smart one. You know?
For me, I think I just had to stop and look and go, Hey, you know what? How can I continue to ask? [00:33:52] There'd be seasons she's like, "No. I love this. This is great. This is exactly where we are." And I don't even know if she really even had words to say, "Hey, this season's coming."
But I think the more we pray and God starts to stir, right, I think there's that thing. Like you said, if you're listening, fellas, if you're listening to what she's saying and you're looking at what's happened in your life, and maybe there's some margin coming in her life or maybe you need to help create that margin in her life and go, you know what?