The Road to Now

Bob and Ben catch up to talk about Jonathan Haidt's recent article in the May issue of The Atlantic, "Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid," and their take on the problems of social media and the solutions posed by Haidt and others. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer

The first amendment right to the freedom of speech is a cornerstone of American liberty, but this broad principle becomes a bit narrower when put into practice. Why, for example, is burning an American flag in protest protected by the first amendment but burning your draft card is not? Lynn Greenky, whose new book When Freedom Speaks: The Boundaries and Boundlessness of our First Amendment Rights joins Ben and Bob to answer these questions and others in a master session on the freedom of speech. Lynn Greenky is a former lawyer and current teaching professor in Syracuse University's Department of Communication and Rhetorical Studies, where she teaches a course on the First Amendment. Her book, When Freedom Speaks, will be available on May 15th from Brandeis University Press and can be pre-ordered from her website, LynnGreenky.com. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Ron Suny joins Ben for a conversation about the Armenian Genocide. Ron, one of the world's foremost experts on the history of the Armenian genocide, explains why the Ottoman government tunred on its Armenian subjects during World War I and the methods it used to carry out this atrocity. He also explains why, in spite of the evidence, recognizing this as genocide remains a political hotspot both internationally and within modern Turkey, and why it is important to remember tragedies even when doing so makes us uncomfortable. Dr. Ronald Grigor Suny is the William H. Sewell Jr. Distinguished University Professor of History at the University of Michigan and Emeritus Professor of Political Science and History at the University of Chicago. He is the author of numerous books, including "They Can Live in the Desert But Nowhere Else:" A History of the Armenian Genocide (Princeton University Press, 2015). This is a rebroadcast of RTN #92, which originally aired on April 23, 2018. In 2019, the both houses of US Congress recognized the Armenian Genocide. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

In this episode, music writer Michaelangelo Matos joins Bob and Ben to break down why he thinks 1984 was a crucial year for the music industry. Michaelangelo also shares why he loves books about a single year. Check out Michaelangelo Matos' book Can't Slow Down: How 1984 Became Pop's Blockbuster Year here.

It's difficult to fathom how Benjamin Franklin accomplished so much in a single lifetime. It's equally difficult to imagine how to take such an incredible life and consolidate it into four hours of documentary film. In this episode, we cover both feats with writer Dayton Duncan and producer David Schmidt, two of the great minds behind Ken Burns' new documentary on Benjamin Franklin. Dayton and David discuss Franklin's life, the work that goes into creating a historical documentary film, and their process for deciding the best way to tell an American icon's story in a pair of two-hour episodes. Benjamin Franklin: A Film by Ken Burns premieres Monday, April 4th and Tuesday, April 5th on your local PBS station and we highly recommend it! If you enjoy this episode, check out Ben and Bob's conversation with Ken Burns in episode #191. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Russian Revolution that began with the fall of Tsar Nicholas II in February of 1917 and continued into a second revolution the following October, is unquestionably one of the most significant events in modern history. The October Revolution brought Vladimir Lenin and the Bolshevik Party from relative obscurity to the leaders of the first communist nation, later called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), and the economic and ideological system espoused by Soviet leaders transformed Russia from an underdeveloped nation on the periphery of Europe into a global super power in just a few decades. In this episode we speak with Russian history expert (and Ben's former dissertation advisor) Lewis Siegelbaum to discuss the series of events that led to the Russian Revolution and the establishment of the Soviet Union, and why he tells his students that ignoring the Soviet Union in 20th century is like "clapping with one hand." Dr. Lewis Siegelbaum is the Jack & Margaret Sweet Professor of History at Michigan State University, and one of the most prolific historians on the history of the Soviet era. He has published and edited twelve books, the most recent of which are Cars for Comrades: The Life of the Soviet Automobile (Cornell University Press, 2008) and Broad is My Native Land: Repertoires and Regimes of Migration in Russia's Twentieth Century (Cornell, 2014), which he co-wrote w Leslie Page Moch. His most recent book is Stuck on Communism: Memoir of a Russian Historian (NIU Press, 2019). This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer and is a rebroadcast of episode 79, which originally aired on November 16, 2017.

For the past year, Bob has been working on an audio docu-series that traces musicians' activism for human rights through benefit concerts from the 1970s to the 1990s. That series, Concerts of Change: The Soundtrack of Human Rights, airs Tuesday, March 22 on Siriux/XM's Volume Channel (106), so in this episode, Bob and Ben mark the occasion by discussion Bob's work on the series, how studying and speaking with musicians who inspired him helped Bob reflect upon his own role as a musician, and what he learned from his conversations with those involved in Live Aid, Band Aid, and other musicians' efforts to use their talents to help improve the lives of others. Concerts of Change: The Soundtrack of Human Rights begins on March 22 at 1 p.m. ET and will air bi-weekly on SiriusXM's Volume channel 106. Extended bonus content with longer interviews and outtakes will be available exclusively on the SiriusXM app beginning March 22. Click here to sign up for SiriusXM so you can keep up with Concerts of Change! This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Russian government recently made moves to nationalize the property of foreign owned firms that ceased operation in response to Russia's attack on Ukraine. Ben's research is all about the history of foreign investment in Russia/the Soviet Union, so he and Bob sit down for a discussion about the very severe consequences that nationalization has had for Russia in the past and how this decision may do damage that far outlast sanctions. For more on Singer Sewing Machines in Russia, check out Ben's article "Manufacturing Germans: Singer Manufacturing Company and American Capitalism in the Russian Imagination during World War I.: (Enterprise & Society, Vol. 17, No. 2 (June 2016) pp 301-323.) This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Vladimir Putin's decision to launch a brutal invasion of Ukraine has sparked a coordinated wave of sanctions from the US and members of the European Union. This may be the most comprehensive set of sanctions that Moscow has seen, but it is certainly not the first. In this episode, Bob & Ben speak with Kristy Ironside, who specializes in the history of the Russian & Soviet economy, for a conversation about the long history of western sanctions against Russia, the Ruble's tenuous position in the global economy, and how Russia's long-term economic isolation has, and may continue to, impact people around the world. Although things remain uncertain, it is our hope that these sanctions help to bring an end to the tragedy that Vladimir Putin has unleashed against the people of Ukraine. Dr. Kristy Ironside is Assistant Professor of Russian, Soviet & International History at McGill University in Montreal, Canada and the author of A Full-Value Ruble: The Promise of Prosperity in the Postwar Soviet Union, 1945-1964 (Harvard University Press, 2021). You can follow her on twitter at @Kristy_Ironside. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Journalist Heath Druzin's new podcast Extremely American examines the American militia movement through first-hand interviews with militia members and their opponents. In this episode, Heath joins Bob and Ben for a discussion about what he learned while spending time with individuals in the movement, how the militia movement has changed in the last few years, and the way that these groups draw on historical events to shape their worldview. Heath Druzin is a journalist who covers the intersection of far-right movements and mainstream politics for Boise State Public Media and Postindustrial Media. He previously covered the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for Stars & Stripes. You can follow him on twitter at @HDruzin. Extremely American (NPR/Postindustrial Media) is available anywhere you get The Road to Now. Click here to visit the podcast page on Postindustrial Media. If you enjoy this episode, check our episode on American militias with Vanderbilt Sociologist Dr. Amy Cooter. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Constitution empowers the electoral college to select the President, but the process for counting electors' votes remains in the hands of Congress. In this episode, Constitutional Law Professor Edward Foley explains the origins of the electoral college, how and why the 12th Amendment changed the process for electing Presidents, and the concerns that led Congress to codify the procedure for counting electors' votes in 1887. Edward also offers some specific ways that updating the Electoral Count Act of 1887 might help us avoid some of the potential problems that might arise in upcoming elections. Edward Foley holds the Ebersold Chair in Constitutional Law at The Ohio State University, where he also directs its election law program. He is a regular contributor to The Washington Post and the author of multiple books, including Ballot Battles: The History of Disputed Elections in the United States (Oxford University Press, 2016) and Presidential Elections and Majority Rule (Oxford University Press, 2020). You can follow him on twitter at @NedFoley. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Bob & Ben catch up to talk about the Presidential Records Act and how Trump's violations of the act stack up to other Presidents' handling of their records. They also discuss Neil Young and other artists' decision to pull their music from Spotify as a response to Joe Rogan's prominent position on the platform, as well as recent evidence that the 1776 report still matters. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer. For more on The Road to Now: https://linktr.ee/RoadToNow

Bob speaks with Messiah College's John Fea about Christianity in Early America and the ways that the founders viewed the relationship between faith and politics. Fea outlines the "5 Cs" of history, the importance of approaching history with an open mind, and explains why he thinks the title of his book Was America Founded as a Christian Nation? may not be the question in approaching Christianity's role in the establishment of the United States. John Fea is Professor of American History and Chair of the Department of History at Messiah College and host of the podcast The Way of Improvement Leads Home. He is the author or editor of four books, including Was America Founded as a Christian Nation: A Historical Introduction (Westminster/ John Knox Press, 2011) & Why Study History?: Reflecting on the Importance of the Past (Baker Academic, 2013) and his essays and reviews have appeared in a variety of scholarly and popular venues. This episode originally aired in February 2018 as part of RTN Theology #2. We are releasing it as RTN #222 because it's an important conversation that we think should be featured on both feeds. A full list of RTN Theology episodes are available anywhere you're listening to The Road to Now.

Ukraine has gotten a lot of intermittent attention in the US over the last few years, but the stories we hear are usually about the US and Russia. To counter that tendency, we offer you a story about Ukraine that is actually about Ukraine. In this episode, historian Kimberly St. Julian-Varnon joins Ben to talk about the key historical events that have shaped Ukraine and its place in the world today. Kimberly St. Julian-Varnon holds a MA in Russian, Eastern European and Central Asian Studies from Harvard University and is currently a doctoral student in history at the University of Pennsylvania. You can learn more about her at her website www.kstjulianvarnon.com and follow her on twitter at @KSVarnon. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Today we've got a little something special for you- something we're calling "Crossroads." From time to time, on weekends, Bob and I will be sharing episodes of podcasts that we think our audience might enjoy, and our first ever featured podcast is History Daily. History Daily is hosted by our friend and podcaster extraordinaire, Lindsay Graham. You might know Lindsay from some of the biggest podcasts in the country, including American Scandal and American History Tellers. Lindsay's newest endeavor, History Daily, drops new episodes every weekday featuring stories of events that happened on that date in the past. The episodes run about 20 minutes and are well produced, so they're interesting gateways into bigger topics in history and they're pleasant listens. For today's episode, Ben picked wpisodes that work well together- the story of Laika the Soviet space dog's Nov. 3, 1957 launch into space and the story of Apollo 8- which sent the first crewed spacecraft to orbit the moon on Dec. 21, 1968. They're both great on their own, but together they illustrate the firm lead that the Soviets had early in the space race, and the incredible effort NASA put into surpassing the Soviets by the end of the 1960s. If you enjoy these episodes, you can follow History Daily anywhere you get the Road to Now.

Jon Grinspan is a curator of political history at the Smithsonian Museum of American History and a frequent contributor to The New York Times. In this episode, Jon explains how his work with historical objects has informed his understanding of the past, the reasons he thinks that American politics in recent years is less of an aberration than many of us would like to believe, and his thoughts on the many ways Americans might look back on the January 6th insurrection in the future. Jon also shares the process he and his colleagues at The Smithsonian follow in selecting objects from today that will be preserved for future generations. Dr. Jon Grinspan's newest book is The Age of Acrimony: How Americans Fought to Fix Their Democracy, 1865-1915 (Bloomsbury, 2021). For more on his work, visit his bio page at the Smithsonian or link directly to one of the articles listed below. Jon Grinspan & Peter Manseau, "It's 2086. This is What American History Could Look Like." The New York Times, Jan. 6, 2022. Jon Grinspan, "What We Did the Last Time We Broke America," The New York Times, Oct. 29, 2021. Jon Grinspan, "How to Steal An Election," The New York Times, Oct. 24, 2020. For Bob and Ben's conversation in the aftermath of the January 6, 2021 attack on the capitol, check out RTN #187 The Insurrection Episode. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

On January 9, the new musical Swept Away, which is based on the music of Bob's band The Avett Brothers, premiered at the Berkeley Repertory Theater. In this episode, the musical's writer, John Logan (Any Given Sunday, Skyfall, Red) and lead actor, John Gallagher Jr. (American Idiot, The Newsroom) join Bob and Ben for a discussion about how the music became a musical, their sources of creativity, and why they decided to make such a deep investment in developing and performing Swept Away. Swept Away runs until March 6, 2022 at the Berkeley Repertory Theater in Berkeley, CA. For more information and tickets visit the Berkeley Rep's website. You can also follow Swept Away on Instagram by clicking here. Click here to hear John Gallagher Jr. performing "The Once and Future Carpenter" from Swept Away. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

In 1998, as part of the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement, the biggest US tobacco companies agreed to open their archives to the public. Inside company documents was a story of tobacco executives who understood that cigarettes killed smokers yet expended vast amounts of time and money to keep that information from the public. In this episode, Ben speaks with Louis Kyriakoudes, an expert who has applied his academic research on the history of cigarettes as an expert witness in tobacco cases and as a speaker to medical groups seeking to better understand the history of the industry. Dr. Louis Kyriakoudes is Professor of History and Director of the Albert Gore Research Center at Middle Tennessee State University. He has served as expert witness in tobacco litigation in multiple state and federal courts and served as an international consultant on the topic. For a list of sources, visit our episode page at RTNpod.me/218. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Bob & Ben catch up for a conversation about 2021 and what may await us in the New Year. They discuss free speech on college campuses, the state of the workforce, and little bit about a lot of other topics. Happy New Year! We're excited to announce that we've collaborated with Hark Audio to make Harklists of our favorite RTN moments from 2021! Hear Bob & Ben's clips and why they chose them at the following links: The Road to Now – Bob Crawford's 2021 Highlights The Road to Now – Ben Sawyer's 2021 Highlights Sources Mentioned in this episode: Harvard Youth Poll, 42nd edition, 2021. Michael Graber, Debt: The First 5,000 Years, Melville House, 2011.

On December 25, 1776, George Washington and his men celebrated their first post-Declaration of Independence Christmas by crossing a freezing river to mount a surprise attack against their enemies. The plan worked, but almost 250 years later the story of Washington crossing the Delaware might surprise you too. In this episode, RTN favorite Bruce Carlson of My History Can Beat Up Your Politics joins Bob & Ben for a conversation about one of the US's most recognized, yet little-known battles and how it affected the course of the Revolutionary War. If you enjoy this episode, check out My History Can Beat Up Your Politics, available anywhere you get The Road to Now. You can also hear Bruce in RTN Episode 85: The History of US-Mexican Relations w/ Bruce Carlson, recorded live from Avetts at the Beach in 2018. This episode is an enhanced rebroadcast of episode #154 that includes additional primary source readings not included in the original episode. The rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Faith has played an important role in American history, but not always in the ways we'd expect. In this episode, Andy Polk joins Bob and Ben to explain how politicians, advertising executives and public relations experts bypassed America's religious leaders, ignored theological debates, and dismissed historical evidence to fabricate and sell a story of America's religious origins that served their own political needs. That story remains with us today so, to quote the title of Andy's recent op-ed in The Tennessean: "When you hear 'In God We Trust', pay attention to what comes next." Dr. Andrew R. Polk is Associate Professor of History at Middle Tennessee State University and the author of the new book, Faith In Freedom: Propaganda, Presidential Politics, and the Making of an American Religion (Cornell University Press, December 2021). Get your hardback copy of Faith In Freedom directly from Cornell University Press and save 30% off the cover price with promo code 09Flyer! Click here for more information. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The stories we tell about ourselves help us make sense of the world. And while we all have stories as individuals, a set them within a shared narrative that is the foundation of our communities. In this episode, National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL) CEO Tim Storey hosts Ben and storyteller Donna Washington in a conversation about the ways that stories work, why they have the power to unite us, and how they can also be used to divide us. They also reflect on the "American Story" and how new perspectives on our past help us to better understand who we are as a people and a country. A special thanks to Tim Storey and everyone at NCSL for inviting Ben and Donna to return to NCSL's Legislative Summit, and to Donna Washington for sharing her wisdom with us and the crowd. We're also grateful to all those who attended the panel and took the time to speak with us afterward. You can read Lesley Kennedy's writeup of the panel on NCSL's blog here. You can follow Donna Washington on twitter at @DLWStoryTeller, like her page on facebook, and find out more about her upcoming performances and work (including her new book Boo Stew) at her website- DonnaWashington.com. The National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL) is a non-partisan organization that represents the legislatures in the states, territories and commonwealths of the U.S. Its mission is to advance the effectiveness, independence and integrity of legislatures and to foster interstate cooperation and facilitate the exchange of information among legislatures. To learn more about NCSL and access their incredible set of online resources covering a wide variety of topics relating to state legislatures and local governments, visit their website: NCSL.org. You can hear our first NCSL panel, recorded in 2019, featuring Ben, Donna and Bob in episode #138 by clicking here. Our conversation with NCSL's experts on legislative redistricting past and present, is also available in episode #212 Redistricting: A Primer w/ Wendy Underhill and Ben Williams. This episode was recorded at NCSL's Legislative Summit in Tampa, Florida on November 5th, 2021 and edited by Ben Sawyer.

During a trip to Denver, Bob and Ben were fortunate enough to sit down with journalist and historian Dick Kreck at the historic Brown Palace hotel for a conversation about the history of the Wild West and the city of Denver, Colorado in the late 19th and 20th centuries. Before retiring in 2009, Dick spent four decades working as a reporter for the San Francisco Examiner, The LA Times, and The Denver Post, and he has published numerous books on the history of Colorado and the west, including Murder at the Brown Palace: A True Story of Seduction and Betrayal (2003) and Hell on Wheels: Wicked Towns Along the Union Pacific Railway (2013). This episode is a rebroadcast of RTN episode #7, which originally launched on June 23rd 2016. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Nora Guthrie, daughter of American icon Woody Guthrie, joins Ben & Bob to talk about her father's life and the many ways she's contributed to sharing his story. Nora discusses the inspiration for Woody's music, his connection to Bob Dylan, Pete Seeger, Leadbelly and other music icons, and why her new Woody Guthrie: Songs and Art • Words and Wisdom, which she co-curated with music historian Robert Santelli, presents her father as she'd like him to be remembered. Nora Guthrie is President of Woody Guthrie Publications and founder of the Woody Guthrie Archive (1994). Woody Guthrie: Songs and Art • Words and Wisdom (co-curated by Nora Guthrie & Robert Santelli) is a beautifully arranged "almanac" that features original handwritten lyrics, drawings, and photographs that document Woody Guthrie's life through his own words. The book also features insightful contributions by Douglas Brinkley, Roseann Cash, Chuck D, Jeff Daniels, Ani DiFranco and Arlo Guthrie. Click here to buy the book from the Guthrie Center and have your copy signed by Nora. Additional Resources The Woody Guthrie Center & Archives in Tulsa Oklahoma 18-May 22, 2022: "Woody Guthrie: People are the Song," and exhibition at The Morgan Library & Museum (New York, NY) This Episode Kills Fascists: Woody Guthrie's Life & Legacy w/ Deana McCloud (The Road to Now #94)

The 2020 Presidential election was one of the most tumultuous in American history, and while Joe Biden's victory over Donald Trump is settled, Trump's refusal to accept defeat has had implications that transcend his time in the oval office. In this episode, Bob and Ben speak with Robert Costa, whose new book Peril draws on his and co-author Bob Woodward's extensive investigation of the Biden and Trump campaigns and Trump's handling of executive power during his time in office. Robert explains how he finds and vets sources, his method of "deep background" interviews, and how he maintains journalistic disinterest in the face of intense partisan conflict. He also discusses what he learned about Trump and Biden as candidates and individuals and why he believes that the peril that characterized the Trump-Biden transition remains a source of concern more than a year after the 2020 election. Robert Costa is a national political reporter at The Washington Post and political analyst for NBC News and MSNBC. You can follow him on twitter at @CostaReports. If you enjoyed this conversation, check out our previous conversation with Robert in RTN #130 Sources, Methods & Music w/ Robert Costa. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

There is a lot at stake when congressional districts are redrawn every ten years, and the complexity of redistricting can make it hard for even well-informed citizens to understand the process. In this episode, we get a primer on redistricting's past and present from the same experts that our state legislators turn to when it's time to redraw their districts: Wendy Underhill and Ben Williams of the National Conference of State Legislatures. Wendy and Ben take us through the history of redistricting, why it became mandatory only in the 1960s, and how new information and technology shape the way we're represented in our state and federal governments. To find out more about redistricting in your state, check out "Redistricting Systems: A 50 State Overview" from NCSL. Wendy Underhill is Director of NCSL's Elections and Redistricting Program. Ben Williams is a Policy Specialist in Elections and Redistricting at NCSL. You can follow him on twitter at @ElectionBen. A special thanks to Tim Story for helping to arrange this conversation. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher

Is the United States an empire? US citizens have struggled with this question for a long time. Though our historical narrative traces our origins to the war for independence against the British Empire, we often forget that the US has presided over territories since the very beginning. Today about 4 million people in the territories of American Samoa, the Northern Marinara Islands, Guam, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands are subject to the US government, yet cannot vote for President and have only symbolic representation in congress. At the same time, the US maintains a global network of about 800 military bases in 80 countries. For these reasons and more, Daniel Immerwahr says the United States is definitely an empire. In this episode, Daniel explains how this happened, the ways that US citizens have debated their country's role in the world, and how a country born of an anti-imperialist revolution became the thing it professed (and still professes) to despise. He also shares some fascinating stories about how the US military helped make The Beatles, why some people claimed John McCain was not eligible to be President, and how citizens of the United States of America began referring to their country as simply "America." Daniel Immerwahr is Associate Professor of History at Northwestern University, and author of the book How To Hide An Empire: A History of the Greater United States (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 2019). You can follow him on twitter at @dimmerwahr. How To Hide An Empire is available on audiobook from libro.fm. Click here and use promo code RTN at checkout to get this book and two more for just $15! This episode is a reair of RTN #134, which originally aired on July 1, 2019. The original conversation was edited by Gary Fletcher. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.

In May of 1787, delegates from 12 states met in Philadelphia and began debating what would become the US Constitution. They published the document the following September and we've been arguing about it ever since. As President & CEO of the The National Constitution Center, Jeffrey Rosen is responsible for fulfilling the center's mission to "disseminate information about the United States Constitution on a non-partisan basis in order to increase the awareness and understanding of the Constitution among the American people." In this episode, Jeffrey joins Bob & Ben for a discussion about the Constitution, the vital ways that amendments have changed the federal government, and how rulings by past courts may impact upcoming Supreme Court decisions. We also talk about how the NCC has worked to fulfill its congressional mandate, the exciting resources available through the Center, and the important role that non-partisan resources play in a democracy. Jeffrey Rosen is also professor at The George Washington Law School, Contributing Editor at The Atlantic, and author of multiple books on US legal and political history including Conversations with RBG: Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Life, Love, Liberty and Law (Henry Holt & Co., 2019) and William Howard Taft (Times Books, 2018). You can follow him on twitter at @RosenJeffrey. Highlighted Resources from the National Constitution Center-The Interactive Constitution (also available as an app in the apple and android app stores) -We The People with Jeffrey Rosen podcast (available anywhere you get The Road to Now) -Educational Video Series If you're in Philadelphia, you can visit the National Constitution Center, which is located just steps from Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell. Click here to plan your visit! This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Miss America pageant has always had its critics, but the stories of the organization and those who participated in it are far more dynamic than most people recognize. In this episode, Bob & Ben speak with Amy Argetsinger whose new book There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America explains Miss America's origins, how the pageant both shaped and was shaped by American society, and why it might be okay that the pageant's significance in American culture has faded. Bonus: Bob calls Miss USA "the confederacy of beauty pageants." Listen to find out why that makes sense! Amy Argetsinger is an editor for The Washington Post's acclaimed Style section, where she has overseen coverage of media, popular culture, politics and society. Her new book There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America was published by Atria/One Signal Publishers in September of 2021. You can follow Amy on twitter at @AmyArgetsinger. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

How did corn syrup get such a bad reputation? While there are certainly differences between this corn-based sweetener and the sugar that comes from beets & cane, the opinions many of us hold about what separates them are rooted in much more than the scant scientific evidence on their differing impact on human health. In this episode, Benjamin Cohen joins us to talk about the history behind the corn syrup controversy, the deep roots that lie beneath our understandings of food and purity, and how understanding this story might help us make better decision moving forward. Dr. Benjamin R. Cohen is Associate Professor of Engineering Studies and Environmental Studies at Lafayette College and co-editor w/ Michael Kideckel & Anna Zeide of the new collection Acquired Tastes: Stories About the Origins of Modern Food (MIT Press, 2021). His previous book, Pure Adulteration: Cheating on Nature in the Age of Manufactured Food (University of Chicago Press, 2019), was the topic of his previous appearance in RTN #161 Food in The Era of Adulteration. Learn more about his work at his personal website or by following him on twitter at @BRCohen95. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

In 1776, the US declared independence. Eleven years later, in 1787, delegates from 12 states (we're looking at YOU Rhode Island) got together in Philadelphia and wrote the Constitution. In between those triumphant moments, there was the Articles of Confederation, that "firm league of friendship" that most Americans probably know as something they had to memorize for a history test. HOWEVER The Articles of Confederation, while certainly not a highlight of the American experiment, explain a lot about the American Revolution, the ideas that defined the founding generation, and the ways those ideas changed in the first years of independence. In fact, you can't really understand the US Constitution unless you understand the Articles and why they failed. THEREFORE In this episode, Bob and Ben speak with Greg Jackson about this very topic. Greg is Assistant Professor of Integrated Studies at Utah Valley University and host of the podcast History That Doesn't Suck. We hope you enjoy our conversation on the Articles of Confederation! AMENDED This episode also includes all-new material from Ben's appearance on Greg's podcast History That Doesn't Suck, in which Ben and Greg discuss the Gilded Age! You can find the full conversation in HTDS Episode #99, airing in full on October 11, 2021. (BTW there was no process for amending the Articles, which is just one of the many reasons they didn't last!) This is an expanded rebroadcast of RTN #128, which originally aired May 6, 2019). Want to support The Road to Now and get extra episodes and other content? Join us on Patreon! This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Monsanto Company officially ceased to exist when it was acquired by Bayer in 2018, but its legacy lives on in courtrooms, factory towns and farms across the globe. Today the company's name is most associated with the herbicide Roundup and genetically modified seeds, but Monsanto also served as a leading producer of Agent Orange during the Vietnam War, an essential supplier of caffeine and saccharin to Coca-Cola in Coke's early years, and the sole US producer of Polychlorinated Biphenyls (PCBs). In short, Monsanto's history is one that will continue to shape the world well into the future. In this episode, Bart Elmore joins Bob and Ben to talk about his new book Seed Money: Monsanto's Past and Our Future (W.W. Norton, 2021), and how a small midwestern company founded in 1901 became an agricultural powerhouse by selling solutions to the problems it helped to create. Dr. Bartow Elmore is Associate Professor of History at The Ohio State University where he specializes in Global Environmental History and the History of Capitalism. He is also the author of the award-winning book Citizen Coke: The Making of Coca-Cola Capitalism (W. W. Norton, 2015). You can follow him on twitter at @BartElmore and find out more about his work at his website, BartElmore.com. You can hear Bart's first appearance on The Road To Now in episode #140: Citizen Coke: The History of Coca-Cola w/ Bartow Elmore. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. For more on The Road to Now, visit our website, www.TheRoadToNow.com. (It's great because it was designed by Seven Ages Design!)

Most Americans know Woody Guthrie's "This Land is Your Land", but the song, much like the man who wrote it, is far more complex than many of us realize. Guthrie, who was born in Oklahoma in 1912, moved west during the Dust Bowl of the mid-1930s and witnessed the tragedy of the Great Depression first-hand. A self-proclaimed "common-ist," Woody dedicated his life to documenting the experiences of his generation and using his platform to advocate for the common worker. In this episode, Bob & Ben speak with Woody Guthrie Center Executive Director Deana McCloud to learn more about Woody Guthrie, his music, and his legacy. This episode was recorded at the Woody Guthrie Center in Tulsa, OK. If you're ever in the area, we highly recommend you take the time to visit. A video of Bob's visit is available on our episode page and on The Road to Now's YouTube channel. You can visit the Guthrie Center's website at woodyguthriecenter.org and follow on them at twitter at @WoodyGuthrieCtr. You can follow Deana McCloud on twitter at @DKMcCloud. This episode is a rebroadcast of The Road to Now #94, which originally aired on May 1, 2018.

Bob & Ben catch up to talk about the state of political and social unrest in the US and where they see current events within recent history. They cover the recent turn to vigilantism in the US by both anti-mask protestors and the state of Texas, as well as their concern over a tyrannical minority shaping American institutions to maintain power. They also speculate about where all this might lead us….. If you're enjoying the Road to Now and want to support our work, join us on Patreon at Patreon.com/TheRoadToNow. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. The Road to Now is hosted by Bob Crawford (The Avett Brothers/Press On Fund) & Dr. Ben Sawyer (MTSU History).

Most Americans drink coffee. Our love for coffee ties us to people and countries around the world, and to those who lived long before us. In this episode of The Road to Now, we speak with Mark Pendergrast, author of Uncommon Grounds: The History of Coffee & How It Changed the World and Beyond Fair Trade to find out coffee's origins, its effects on global trade, and how a small cherry that originated on the other side of the planet became part of our daily life. This is a rebroadcast of RTN #81, which originally aired on December 11, 2017. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

In this episode, Bob speaks with freelance journalist, Julian Rubenstein, author of The Holly: Five Bullets, One Gun, and the Struggle to Save an American Neighborhood (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2021). The book tells the story of anti-gang activist, Terrance Roberts, who shot a young gang member before a peace rally he organized. In telling the story of Terrance Roberts, Rubenstein also tells the history of black organizers from the civil rights era, the black power movement through to today's black lives matter movement. Rubenstein is a real journalist; he's devoted many years of his life telling the story of Terrance and Denver's North East Park Hill Neighborhood and he was the battle scars to prove it. In an age when so many people have trouble telling the difference between opinion journalism and objective journalism, the depth and scope of Julian's tenacious reporting deserves recognition. You can follow Julian Rubinstein on twitter at @Julian_Rubinste. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.

Neil Hanson is one of the most interesting people we know. He's written books on World War I, the Spanish Armada, and the fire that destroyed London in 1666. He once teamed up with history's greatest treasure hunter to tell the story of retrieving over $100 million in gold from a sunken Soviet ship in the arctic. He's been the owner of the highest Inn in all of Great Britain. And, in 1999 he published a book called The Custom of the Sea, which tells the story of a shipwrecked crew that was put on trial in London after resorting to cannibalism. Their ship, which fell victim to forty-foot waves off the coast of Africa in 1884, was named the Mignonette, and Hanson's book was so good that in 2004 it inspired an album by an up-and-coming group of musicians called The Avett Brothers. This is a rebroadcast of an episode that originally aired on April 24, 2017. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.

According to the US Department of Education, 45 million Americans collectively owe $1.7 billion in total student loan debt. While the weight of student loans has increased substantially in the 21st century, the history of student debt and the institutions that facilitate it is a much longer story than you probably expect. Ellie Shermer joins us to talk about her new book Indentured Students: How Government-Guaranteed Loans Left Generations Drowning in Debt (Harvard, 2021), why student debt may be bad for all of us, and what we might do to alleviate student debt and fix higher education moving forward. Dr. Elizabeth Tandy Shermer is Associate Professor of History at Loyola University Chicago. Her previous books include Sunbelt Capitalism: Phoenix and the Transformation of American Politics (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2015). You can follow her on twitter at @ETShermer. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.

When two people look at the same set of facts and reach an entirely different conclusion, it's often because of a difference in the way they understand their place in the world. In this episode (recorded when Bob began his graduate course in methodology in January 2019), Ben and Bob discuss the power of historical narratives, how they can change over time, and the ways that people in power seek to use history as a source of legitimacy. If you enjoyed this episode, check out the others in our historical methodology series: #119 Karl Marx & History #121 Gender & History w/ Lisa Fine #143 Research! This episode originally aired on The Road to Now's Patreon Feed on January 18, 2019. If you'd like to support our work and get access to exclusive content, please visit TheRoadToNow.com/Patreon. Thank you! This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.

The rejection of scientific expertise has been one of the most consequential social trends of the 21st century and, for those of us who remain committed to the scientific method, it may also be the most frustrating. After years of being bombarded with evidence (and often having their intelligence insulted), science deniers seem even more committed to alternative explanations of the world and the leaders who promise to undermine science-based policy. How did we get here and how can we make things better? In this episode, we get answers to those questions from Dr. Lee McIntyre, who shares what he learned from studying the ways that science deniers see the world, how we can use those insights to fight that worldview, and why a little bit of good faith goes a long way in communicating with others. Dr. Lee McIntyre is a Research Fellow at the Center for Philosophy and History of Science at Boston University. His book How to Talk to a Science Denier: Conversations with Flat Earthers, Climate Deniers, and Others Who Defy Reason (MIT Press, 2021) hits shelves on August 17, 2021. (You remember that study that said confronting people with evidence that disproved their position only made them more convinced of their beliefs? It didn't hold up in subsequent experiments. There's more on that in this episode.) This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.

Bob and Ben speak with Jon Waterlow about his book It's Only a Joke Comrade! Humor, Trust and Everyday Life Under Stalin and the role humor plays in helping humans make sense of the world in even the darkest times. Jon also shares his take on humor's role in politics under Stalin and today, the process he went through to uncover these jokes, and how the artistic technique of crosshatching helps us understand what it was like to live under the Stalinist system. He also discusses his decision to forego publishing his book with an academic publisher and why he decided to leave a bright future in the academy to purse fulfillment elsewhere. Dr. Jonathan Waterlow received his Doctorate in History from the University of Oxford and was a Postdoctoral Fellow at St. Anthony's College (Oxford) and the University of Toronto. He is also the cohost of the Voices in the Dark podcast, which is available anywhere you get The Road to Now. This episode is a rebroadcast of The Road to Now #107 and was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Millions of people from across the globe visit Los Angeles every year, but only a lucky few have gotten a tour of the city from tour guides/stand up comics, Rivers Langley, Anna Valenzuela & Carter Glascock. In this episode, Ben speaks with Rivers, Carter and Anna about their favorite stories from Los Angeles' history, what it's like to work as a tour guide, and what makes a good (and bad) day at work. For images and links to other material discussed in this episode, visit our website episode page: RTNpod.me/202. Carter Glascock is stand up comic and co-host of The Goods From The Woods Podcast. His first album, The Crystal Pistol is available on Spotify and Apple Music. You can follow him on twitter at @carter_glascock. Rivers Langley is a LA-based stand-up comedian and host of The Goods From The Woods Podcast. You can also find him announcing the matches at Wrestling Pro Wrestling. You can follow him on twitter at @RiversLangley. Anna Valenzuela is a comic, writer and host of the podcast 12 Questions. whose appearances include Comedy Central's Roast Battle. You can follow her on twitter at @annavisfun. This episode was mixed by Rivers Langley and edited by Gary Fletcher. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.

Three generations ago, large American corporations offered their employees the stability of life-long employment and the promise of a pension-funded retirement. In the 21st Century, that model has given way to the "gig economy" in which people work multiple jobs. In this episode, Bob and Ben speak with Cornell University's Louis Hyman about the forces that led us from then to now, what it means for our daily lives, and how we might structure the economy of the 21st century in a way that offers the freedom of the gig economy without the insecurity that so many face under our current institutions. Dr. Louis Hyman is a historian of work and business at the School of Industrial and Labor Relations at Cornell University, where he also directs the Institute for Workplace Studies in New York City. His book Temp: How American Work, American Business, and the American Dream Became Temporary was published by Viking in 2018. This is a broadcast of an episode that originally aired on The Road to Now on August 20, 2018. This re-broadcast was edited by Gary Fletcher. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.

Game shows have been featured in network lineups from the very beginning of television and, like all forms of entertainment, they tell us a lot about the culture in which they exist. Fortunately for us, The Strong Museum of Play recently announced the establishment of The National Archives of Game Show History to preserve this history and make it available to the public. In this episode Ben speaks with archive co-founder and veteran game show producer/executive Bob Boden (The Price is Right, $25,000 Pyramid, Funny You Should Ask!) and Strong Museum Vice President of Acquisitions, Chris Bensch, to learn more about their work to preserve this history and how an archive focused on game shows can be valuable for those looking to understand the past. For more about The Strong Museum of Play, visit their website: MuseumOfPlay.org. Check out Bob Boden's current show, Funny You Should Ask! at FunnyYouShouldAsk.tv. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.

This is an expanded version of episode 72, which originally aired in September 2017. In this episode of The Road to Now, we sit down for coffee and conversation with Bob's bandmates in The Avett Brothers for a discussion about art, technology, and challenges of creativity. We cover the historic relationship between genius and madness, the ways one's self is reflected in what we create, and the how they've adapted to the changes that have come their way since they began playing music. The Avett Brothers was the nexus that brought Bob and Ben together in creating The Road to Now, so we're really excited to bring it all together and share this conversation with our listeners. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.

Since establishing Sean's Russia Blog in 2005, Sean Guillory has been one of the most prominent public-facing scholars in Russian and Soviet History. In this episode, Sean gives his insight on the gap between academic research and public perceptions, offers his take on why Cold War-era tropes continue to dominate US-Russia relations, and explains why some Americans left the US in search of a better life in the Soviet Union. Ben & Sean also discuss the ways that studying Americans in the USSR provides valuable insight into the history of the United States in the 20th Century. Dr. Sean Guillory is Digital Scholarship Curator in the Center for Russian, East European, and Eurasian Studies at the University of Pittsburgh. Since 2015, he has hosted and produced the SRB Podcast, whose mission is to provide a space for experts to share their research with a wider public audience. You can follow Sean on twitter at @SeansRussiaBlog. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.

Today's Republican party looks a lot different than it did just a few decades ago, but it rests on many of the same organizations and ideologies that formed the modern conservative movement in the 1970s. In this episode, Rick Perlstein joins us for a conversation about his newest book Reaganland: America's Right Turn, 1976-1980 and how Ronald Reagan, Orrin Hatch and other prominent Republicans were able to harness the social and political forces of the 1970s to form the modern GOP. Rick Perlstein is the award-winning author of multiple New York Times bestsellers, including Reaganland (Simon & Schuster, 2020), Nixonland: The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America (Scribner, 2009) and Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus (Bold Type Books, 2009), as well as a board member at InTheseTimes.com. You can follow him on twitter at @RickPerlstein. In this conversation we also discussed Rick's recent article "This Is Us: Why the Trump Era Ended in Violence," The New Republic, January 20, 2021. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Juneteenth, which celebrates the emancipation of enslaved Americans at the end of the Civil War, has gone from a local holiday in Texas to a national day of celebration for many Americans. In this episode we speak with legal scholar and Pulitzer Prize winning historian Annette Gordon-Reed about her new book On Juneteenth and the ways that the holiday, her personal story and the history of the US can help us better understand the world today. Annette Gordon-Reed is Charles Warren Professor of American Legal History at Harvard University, where she is also the Carol K. Pforzheimer Professor at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study and a professor of history in the university's Faculty of Arts & Sciences. You can follow her on twitter at @Agordonreed. A special thanks to Ken Burns for selecting this episode as one of his favorite podcast moments of 2021! Hear Ken explain why he picked this episode on Hark Audio's "31 Days of Hark". This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Harlem Globetrotters are one of those great parts of American culture that almost everyone knows and loves. For most of us today, the Globetrotters are outstanding entertainers. But did you know that in the mid-20th century the Globetrotters were probably the single best basketball team on the planet? Did you know that they did travel the globe as agents of the US Department of State during the Cold War, but that they are not, in fact, from Harlem? If you want to know how all of this happened (and how the Globetrotters saved the NBA), you're going to love this interview with historian Ben Green on the History of the Harlem Globetrotters.

Since the OPEC oil embargo of 1973, policy makers have had to make hard choices to ensure that American citizens can access the cheap and plentiful energy to which we have become accustomed. Although the US has returned to a position of energy independence in recent years, a variety of problems, from climate change to cyberterrorism, mean the hard choices are far from over. In this episode, Bob & Ben speak with Dr. Jay Hakes about his new book Energy Crises: Nixon, Ford, Carter and Hard Choices in the 1970s (University of Oklahoma Press, 2021) and what the decisions of the past can teach us as we deal with the crises of today. Dr. Jay Hakes is a Presidential & energy historian with a long history of working on energy issues, including as Administrator of the U.S. Energy Information Administration during the Clinton administration and as Director for Research and Policy for President Obama's BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill Commission. He also served for thirteen years as the Director of the Jimmy Carter Presidential Library. For more about his life and work, visit his website: www.JayHakes.com This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. The Road to Now is part of the Osiris Podcast Network.