The Leader's Journey Podcast

*This episode was originally published in July, 2023. In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Chuck DeGroat to talk about the natural reactivity we have to anxiety. We've talked a lot about fight and flight, conflict and distancing, but we don't always add two other instinctive reactions: freeze and fawn. We may aspire to peace-making but we often settle for peace keeping and people-pleasing. When we can see our fawn response, we can stop hiding and courageously choose genuine connection instead. Conversation Overview: Chuck's tweet that inspired this conversation How does the fawn response mimic healthy connection while also undermining it? How does the fawn response show up in leadership? How do we connect the fawn response to anxiety? What might we do instead of fawning? References: Link to Chuck's Tweet Chuck Degroat Website https://twitter.com/chuckdegroat @chuckdegroat on Threads Janina Fisher The Fifth Discipline: The art and practice of the learning organization Healing Developmental Trauma: How Early Trauma Affects Self-Regulation, Self-Image, and the Capacity for Relationship The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable

Asking a question seems simple, but it's often where communication breaks down. In this episode, Trisha focuses on how the way we ask questions shapes the responses we get, the relationships we build, and the outcomes we experience. She explores the difference between genuine curiosity and hidden agendas, how poorly formed questions can create confusion or defensiveness, and what it looks like to ask questions that invite clarity, trust, and deeper understanding in real-life situations. Conversation Overview Why asking questions is harder than it seems The difference between curiosity and control in questions How assumptions shape the questions we ask The impact of tone, timing, and intent Questions that open vs. questions that shut down conversation Practicing better questions in everyday leadership and relationships Resources The Coaching Habit: Say Less, Ask More and Change the Way You Lead Forever by Michael Bungay Stanier Change Your Questions Change Your Life: 12 Powerful Tools for Leadership, Coaching and Life by Marilee Adams, PhD Find Us on YouTube Explore the Series: Episode One - How to Have a Conversation Episode Two - Moving Past the Memo - Conversations in Organizations Episode Three - When Talking Isn't Enough

In this episode, Trisha sits down with Mac to explore what happens when dialogue has run its course, and agreement still is not possible. While healthy organizations value conversation, listening, and discernment, there are moments when leaders must move forward even when consensus cannot be reached. Together, they examine two common leadership traps. Some groups skip meaningful dialogue and rush to decisions. Others stay in conversation indefinitely, believing that enough discussion will eventually produce agreement. Trisha and Mac discuss how leaders can avoid both extremes by creating clear processes for decision making, defining responsibility, and building the maturity required to remain connected even when people disagree. Throughout the conversation, they reflect on the deeper work that takes place in these moments. Leadership is not only about making good decisions but also about who people become as they navigate conflict, disappointment, and differing convictions together. Mac is a pastor and leadership team member with The Leader's Journey. His work focuses on helping church leaders grow in emotional maturity, navigate difficult conversations, and develop healthier leadership cultures within their organizations. Conversation Overview Two Common Ditches in Dialogue When Consensus Becomes a Barrier Defining Yourself Without Demanding Agreement Deciding How Decisions Will Be Made Authority, Responsibility, and Leadership Clarity Staying Connected When Disagreement Remains References and Resources Mac McCarthy - The Leader's Journey Register for the "When Dialogue Isn't Enough" conversation on March 26 Find Us on YouTube

In this episode, Trisha sits down with Rick to talk about how communication really works inside organizations. They move beyond announcements and memos to look at communication as an ongoing cultural process that shapes trust, clarity, and effectiveness. Together, they explore how messages change as they move through layers of leadership, why first-line supervisors matter so much, and what makes listening across teams challenging, especially in times of change. Throughout the conversation, they return to a simple idea: communication gets better when leaders pay as much attention to what they are hearing as to what they are saying. Rick Rarick is a leadership coach and former Human Resources and Management Development executive with Levi Strauss, the Coca-Cola Company, Fiserv, and Invesco. During his professional career, Rick was responsible for helping his organizations define their vision and purpose, develop talent pipelines, and create cultures where people were committed to their work and each other. His work with clients is grounded in coaching the whole person: including the mental, emotional, and spiritual self. His approach to leadership is about taking initiative, defining a vision, and helping those around you be successful. Conversation Overview Communication as Culture, Not an Event Continuous Flow vs. Big Announcements The Critical Role of Supervisors and Context Listening and Feedback Communication Across Levels and Silos Leadership Self-Awareness and Assumptions Resourses Rick Rarick at The Leader's Journey The Leader's Journey Blog https://www.youtube.com/@theleadersjourney

We communicate every day, yet we rarely stop to think about what we are actually doing when we enter a conversation. In this episode, Trisha and Elissa explore the basics of communication through a simple but powerful metaphor: conversation as a game of catch. What does it mean to throw well? To catch well? To take turns? To play generously? Together they unpack how conversations flow, how they break down, and how we can become more mindful, generous participants in the everyday exchanges that shape our relationships at work, at home, and in our communities. Conversation Overview Conversation as a game of catch Throwing and catching: sending and receiving skills Interrupting, over-talking, and holding the ball Asking good questions and keeping the game moving Generosity, anxiety, and when catch turns into dodgeball Staying in the game instead of taking the ball home Guest Bio Elissa Lappenga is a professional educator, trainer, and coach with over 20 years of experience in education, non-profit, corporate, and community settings. Elissa earned her Master of Education (M.Ed.) from UCLA with a concentration in counseling and was one of the first facilitators of the university's Intergroup Dialogue program. She also maintains a SHRM-CP certification with the Society for Human Resources Management and is a PROSCI certified change management practitioner. Resources and References Mentioned Elissa on The Leaders Journey Register for the Upcoming Zoom: How to Have a Converstation

Jim Herrington has been a steady voice on The Leader's Journey Podcast for years. In this episode, Trisha Taylor reflects with him on the long arc of his life, leadership, and learning as he steps into a slightly different role at The Leader's Journey. Together they explore the leadership principle that has shaped everything Jim does: leadership is all about learning. From early experiences of trauma and racism, to systems thinking, reflection, and the ongoing work of emotional and spiritual maturity, this conversation offers a deeper look at the experiences that formed Jim's perspective and continue to shape his work today. Conversation Overview Leadership is all about learning Learning shaped by pain, experience, and reflection Seeing yourself, your system, and your role within it Defining yourself and staying connected under pressure The long work of systems change and emotional maturity Encouragement and wisdom for the next generation of leaders Resources and References Mentioned The Fifth Discipline by Peter Senge Murray Bowen Family Systems Theory The Divine Conspiracy by Dallas Willard Union Baptist Association

As a new year begins, leaders are often faced with uncertainty, change, and challenges that cannot be solved with a predetermined plan. In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor welcomes Megan Mills for a thoughtful and practical conversation about improvisation and its surprising relevance to leadership and everyday life. Together, they explore how the principles of improv such as trust, listening, shared agreements, and adaptability offer a powerful framework for navigating complexity, collaborating well, and showing up fully when the path forward is unclear. Megan Mills is originally from Waukegan, IL (north of Chicago), went to Hope College in Holland, MI and shortly after graduation, moved to New York City. Her early years in NYC were spent in stage management and personal assistant roles as well as performing, creating, teaching and directing improvisational theatre. Now daily life includes driving her son back and forth to numerous games and practices throughout Queens, NY and the tri-state area. Megan has a passion for organization, The Container Store, and Chicago Cubs. She has also been an advocate, public speaker, and volunteer for the American Heart and Stroke Association for the past 20+ years. Conversation Overview Beginning the year without a script Improv as a tool for adaptive leadership The importance of shared agreements and trust "Yes, and" as a mindset for collaboration Listening, presence, and patience in real time Supporting others instead of competing Improv games as practice for real life skills Applying improv principles to teams and leadership Creating safety and inclusion for all voices Meeting uncertainty with openness and curiosity Resources and References Mentioned Megan Mills at The Leader's Journey Truth in Comedy by Del Close and Charna Halpern Harvard Business Review - Three Improv Exercises That Can Change the Way Your Team Works TED Talks on improv, adaptability, and leadership Improv exercises including Three Headed Expert and listening games

In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor and Edie Lenz delve into the complex role of nostalgia within faith communities. They examine the emotional pull of "the way things used to be" and how leaders can honor the past without letting it prevent forward movement. Through personal reflection and practical examples, they invite listeners to cultivate a healthier relationship with change and cherish fond memories of the past. Conversation Overview When Looking Back Warps the Present Nostalgia as Emotional Comfort Generational Dynamics Around the Past The Spiritual Dimension of Nostalgia Practices for Moving Forward Learning to Grieve What Has Changed Resources Edie Lenz at The Leader's Journey Edie Lenz Substack The Leaders Journey Courses The Leader's Journey - Systems Thinking Bowen Theory System Course The Leader's Journey - Spiritual Formation Course