Russian and Ukrainian Nationalism - Fabian Baumann | 2024 Episode 32
The IR thinker · Martin Zubko
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Show Notes
This episode of The IR thinker explores the intertwined histories of Russian and Ukrainian nationalism through Dr Fabian Baumann’s book Dynasty Divided: A Family History of Russian and Ukrainian Nationalism, which traces how members of the Shul’gin/Shul’hyn family adopted divergent national identities. The conversation uses this family lens to examine generational divides, the role of private associations and intellectual networks, concepts such as “nation as a category of practice” and “national indifference”, and what these insights mean for understanding nationalism in Ukraine and Russia today.
Fabian Baumann
Dr Fabian Baumann is a historian of Eastern Europe specialising in the history of nationalism and empire in Russia, Ukraine and East Central Europe. His award winning book Dynasty Divided received the 2024 W. Bruce Lincoln Book Prize for its innovative argument that nineteenth century intellectuals often chose political positions before embracing specific national identities, challenging conventional assumptions about the ethnic roots of nationalism.
Publications:
Nationality as Choice of Path: Iakov Shul´gin, Dmitrii Pikhno, and the Russian-Ukrainian Crossroads
Content
00:00 - Introduction to the Interview
02:33 - Motivation for Researching Nationalism in Ukraine and Russia
05:47 - Distinguishing Personal Convictions from Ideological Shifts under State Pressure or Exile
09:08 - Historical Perspectives on Nationalism: Did People Understand it as We Do Today?
11:24 - Sensitivity in Analysing Family Identities within Specific Geopolitical Contexts
15:02 - A Family Perspective on Nationalism: A Unique Lens on Ukraine and Russia
14:42 - Generational Divides in Nationalism within the Shul’gin/Shul’hyn Family
21:09 - Family-Driven versus State-Driven Nationalism
25:05 - Private Organisations and Societies of Ukrainian Nationalists
27:41 - Intellectual Sources of Nationalist Thought
31:16 - Role and Contribution of Women in the Nationalist Movement
35:25 - Regional Identity vs. Imperial Loyalty: Lessons from the Shul’gin/Shul’hyn Family for Contemporary Ukraine
39:22 - The Concept of “Nation as a Category of Practice”
43:39 - Understanding “National Indifference”
47:20 - Shifts in Personal Assumptions About Nationalism During Research
50:30 - Reception of the Book in Ukraine and Russia Amidst the Ongoing Conflict
53:08 - Key Challenges in Researching Nationalism
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