The Gwart Show | Blockspace Media

Jake Chervinsky, CEO of the Hyperliquid Policy Center, joins us to talk about the critical mission of advocating for American access to decentralized markets. We dive deep into the limitations of the Commodity Exchange Act, the challenges of KYC in a permissionless world, and the evolving relationship between the SEC and CFTC. Jake explains why the current regulatory framework fails DeFi and how a new approach to licensing or exemptions could finally allow US traders to access products like Hyperliquid perps legally. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com Notes: • HPC launched in mid-February 2024. • CEA assumes centralized intermediaries in trades. • DCM licenses require total operator control. • Dodd-Frank changes targeted 2008-style leverage. Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:15 What is the Hyperliquid Policy Center? 01:21 Day in the life of Jake 03:36 What regulations need to change? 06:47 What does a rule change look like? 10:57 Bank secrecy & KYC 14:19 Possible regulation comprimises 17:48 Lobbying for regulation as moat 20:52 ellipsis labs ad 21:39 CES & CFTC now BFF <3 26:17 Devs are NOT money transmitters 31:04 What is "decentralized"? 35:40 CLARITY update 41:10 What's Coinbase doin? 47:11 Canton 54:37 Bitcoin defies regulation 59:38 Spot vs perps 1:03:45 Tokenized securities The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs builds the most efficient on-chain markets. Their orderbook and Prop AMM products have delivered price improvement to hundreds of billions of dollars in retail volume. Now, they are bringing their expertise to build Phoenix, the best on-chain perpetuals platform. Ellipsis Labs is hiring New York-based engineers. If you're an engineer looking to work with a proven team in making DeFi better, go to ellipsislabs dot xyz slash careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chris Bae Founder of Enhanced Digital Group, and Rory Murray, Director of Digital Asset Management at CleanSpark, join us to talk about the professionalization of the Bitcoin mining industry. From managing $40 billion at UBS to overseeing 13,300 BTC at CleanSpark, Rory & Chris break down the three regimes of mining evolution: Wildcat, Market Share, and the current Margin era. We explore why the "Texas Hedge" is failing, how miners use options to manage risk, and why the next frontier for hashrate is AI data centers. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com **Notes:** * CleanSpark holds ~13,300 BTC * Chris Ray formerly managed $40B at UBS. * BTC -20% drawdown recovery averages 18 days. * Texas hedge: Doubling down on BTC exposure. * Shift toward AI and HPC in mining data centers. Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:45 Chris' background 05:08 How Rory knows Chris 07:16 Miners hedging risk, or not... 11:55 Reflecting on mining history 20:31 Ellipsis labs 21:18 It's "expansion" not a "pivot" sir 26:22 Bitcoin is the hurdle rate for compute 30:15 Private credit 41:32 What's big money doing right now? 45:06 What's the deal with 10/10/25? 1:00:57 Everything is fake 1:10:24 The age of GRIFT The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs builds the most efficient on-chain markets. Their orderbook and Prop AMM products have delivered price improvement to hundreds of billions of dollars in retail volume. Now, they are bringing their expertise to build Phoenix, the best on-chain perpetuals platform. Ellipsis Labs is hiring New York-based engineers. If you're an engineer looking to work with a proven team in making DeFi better, go to ellipsislabs dot xyz slash careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nick Forster, CEO of Derive joins us to talk about his journey from trading equity options at SIG to building the leading decentralized options platform. Nick talks the shift from AMMs to app chains and why institutional liquidity is moving on-chain. Nick explains Derive's strategy of 'exporting' complex derivatives to 7+ chains and why on-chain transparency is the only fix for centralized OTC risks. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com Notes: * Captured 90% of on-chain options market share. * Traditional AMMs yielded 5-10% annually initially. * RFQ for institutional liquidity. Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:19 Nick's background 01:20 History of Options 04:15 The journey toward an L2 App-chain 07:11 The "aggregation of liquidity" thesis 09:40 OTC desks & competitors 13:47 Roadblocks to institutional involvement 16:11 Hyperliquid integration 17:09 HLP 22:09 Perps 27:17 Tap trading vs dice rolls 30:52 Value capture 34:38 EFT options 36:05 Why have perps on Derive? 38:36 Current decentralized trading tech vs tradfi 43:14 Regulations 46:16 RWAs 48:30 Bridging to other chains 50:41 Derive token 52:24 Token holders The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs builds the most efficient on-chain markets. Their orderbook and Prop AMM products have delivered price improvement to hundreds of billions of dollars in retail volume. Now, they are bringing their expertise to build Phoenix, the best on-chain perpetuals platform. Ellipsis Labs is hiring New York-based engineers. If you're an engineer looking to work with a proven team in making DeFi better, go to ellipsislabs dot xyz slash careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Noah Goldberg, Partner at Theia Research, talks about the shifting dynamics of the crypto market in 2025. We chat about why crypto funds are facing attrition, the "Spac-like" collapse of recent projects, and the pivot toward fintech rails. Noah breaks down the fundamentals of Hyperliquid, the reality of token overhang, and the challenges for venture capital in an environment of compressed returns. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com Notes: → Funds should be up 50% annualized in 2023-24 → Binance TGE tokens down 80-90% after 90 days → Robinhood margin rates: Sofr plus 700 Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:35 Market overview 03:50 Liquid vs equity funds 06:43 What edge does a crypto fund have now? 12:37 Venture fund revenue prospects 18:15 Thoughts on HYPE 22:42 Quality of earnings 28:46 Taking on Wall Street 39:23 ellipsis labs 40:11 Morpho 52:07 Figure 55:51 Collaterized lending is growing 59:32 Early stage financing 1:03:34 Avici 1:06:00 MetaDAO & futarcy 1:10:25 Prediction markets The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs builds the most efficient on-chain markets. Their orderbook and Prop AMM products have delivered price improvement to hundreds of billions of dollars in retail volume. Now, they are bringing their expertise to build Phoenix, the best on-chain perpetuals platform. Ellipsis Labs is hiring New York-based engineers. If you're an engineer looking to work with a proven team in making DeFi better, go to ellipsislabs dot xyz slash careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dean Eigenmann, Co-Founder of Market Start Inc, joins us to talk about the massive shift in crypto market dynamics. Dean explains his transition from the "closeted" world of MEV trading to launching a liquid-focused fund. We discuss why venture capital overhang has left the market without marginal buyers and why "crypto mullets" are the future of critical infrastructure. Dean also breaks down the math behind token buybacks, comparing the success of Hyperliquid to the struggles of Helium and Jupiter. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com Notes: → Tokens should be equity → Hyperliquid 11 employees → Jane Street conspiracy Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:28 Pivoting away from trading 01:11 The acquisition & current MEV landscape 02:11 Markets Inc 04:09 Token framework 05:24 Regulations & other barriers 07:41 Buy backs 09:37 Hyperliquid buy back program 11:33 HYPE 12:49 Inflection point 13:51 Markets Inc scale & project development phases 16:25 ellipsis labs 17:13 What does "helping" projects mean? 20:58 Real time trade finance 23:48 Stablecoins & efficiency gains 25:25 Tokens vs equity 26:01 Investing in stablecoin infrastructure 28:25 Other sectors 29:39 What's NOT investable now? 30:17 But but DePIN... right? 33:41 Projects with sustainable demand? 35:24 AAVE drama 37:13 AAVE DAO & project structure 39:39 Morpho 40:53 Prediction markets 44:11 What's insider trading & Jane Street 45:59 Jane Street conspiracy 47:56 Wrap up The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs builds the most efficient on-chain markets. Their orderbook and Prop AMM products have delivered price improvement to hundreds of billions of dollars in retail volume. Now, they are bringing their expertise to build Phoenix, the best on-chain perpetuals platform. Ellipsis Labs is hiring New York-based engineers. If you're an engineer looking to work with a proven team in making DeFi better, go to ellipsislabs dot xyz slash careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zack Shapiro, Head of Policy at the Bitcoin Policy Institute and Founder of Rains, joins us to talk about the shifting landscape of crypto regulation under the Trump administration. We discuss why the CLARITY Act is in limbo, the "Defi mullet" and the legal challenges facing AI agents. Zack gives a behind-the-scenes look at the banking lobby's war on stablecoin yields and evaluates the progress of the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com Notes: * Banks lobbied for 1:1 yield ban. * Coinbase takes their pound of flesh * AI ends billable hour standard. Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:24 Who is Zack? 01:25 Bitcoin Policy Institute 04:23 Current policy outlook 10:49 CLARITY Act 17:34 Will CLARITY pass? 19:32 Commodities vs Securities 21:02 Safe harbor 21:19 Howey & Utility tokens 22:37 Developer protections 24:25 How good are protections in CLARITY? 28:56 Crypto crashout & AI agents 33:43 Front ends & KYC 36:13 OFAC 39:43 Ideals in crypto 42:21 BASE 43:30 Crypto in-fighting 46:55 LLMs & the law 52:17 Prediction markets The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs builds the most efficient on-chain markets. Their orderbook and Prop AMM products have delivered price improvement to hundreds of billions of dollars in retail volume. Now, they are bringing their expertise to build Phoenix, the best on-chain perpetuals platform. Ellipsis Labs is hiring New York-based engineers. If you're an engineer looking to work with a proven team in making DeFi better, go to ellipsislabs dot xyz slash careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kevin and Mitchell, Co-Founders of Sierra, talk about how their backgrounds in central banking and liquid funds led them to build a next-generation stablecoin protocol. We chat about the mechanics of yield, the regulatory landscape for platforms like Polymarket, and why the current shift in crypto is moving toward lean, efficient fintech models. Notes: * 95% to 100% of capital earns yield * Money market yields currently 2-3% * Industry shift to fintech and robotics Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:44 Mitchell's background 02:11 Kevin's background 03:41 What is Sierra? 05:07 Yield strategies 05:31 Why is Sierra different? 09:01 Abstracting complexity away 10:50 Assessing risk 14:40 Yield percentages 15:48 DeFi Summer yields 18:05 Why use Sierra? 24:00 RWAs & T-bills 27:34 RWA "quality" 32:20 What is "on-chain"? 37:14 Composability 42:04 Current state of funds 46:38 Future of venture funding 49:24 Winners & losers The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs builds the most efficient on-chain markets. Their orderbook and Prop AMM products have delivered price improvement to hundreds of billions of dollars in retail volume. Now, they are bringing their expertise to build Phoenix, the best on-chain perpetuals platform. Ellipsis Labs is hiring New York-based engineers. If you're an engineer looking to work with a proven team in making DeFi better, go to ellipsislabs.xyz/careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tyler Whittle, Head of Product at Project 11 , joins us to talk about the intersection of quantum hardware and cryptographic security. He explains why current encryption like RSA and ECC are vulnerable , the progress made by Google’s Willow in noise reduction , and the specific NIST timelines for 2035. Tyler says the industry can prepare for Q-Day with new standards and why the transition is a race against time for global financial privacy and the Bitcoin network. Notes: * NIST says to deprecate classical crypto by 2035. * Google Willow reduces noise as qubits increase. * 35% of Cloudflare traffic is already PQC. * Quantum hardware could factor numbers in 18 mo. * Quantum signatures will increase Bitcoin fees. * Q-Day risk is mispriced in digital assets. Timeline: 00:02:05 Quantum Cats 00:04:57 Project Eleven 00:07:33 Project Eleven business case? 00:10:44 What's currently happening in Quantum? 00:18:10 Willow chip 00:25:33 Physical space vs digital space 00:29:10 Wen Quantum unlock? 00:29:56 Error correction 00:34:16 What is a red flag event? 00:38:00 Won't the NSA save us? 00:43:18 Costs of new signature schemes? 00:44:41 Proposals for BTC changes 00:46:31 Old coins, wat do? 00:51:49 Economic actors 00:53:14 Nuking price 00:59:13 Bitcoin vs other blockchains 01:00:46 Block size increase 01:05:56 Quantum money 01:11:04 Timelines The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs builds the most efficient on-chain markets. Their orderbook and Prop AMM products have delivered price improvement to hundreds of billions of dollars in retail volume. Now, they are bringing their expertise to build Phoenix, the best on-chain perpetuals platform. Ellipsis Labs is hiring New York-based engineers. If you're an engineer looking to work with a proven team in making DeFi better, go to ellipsislabs dot xyz slash careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Hoffman, Podcaster at Bankless, joins us to talk about the evolution of crypto from a naive 2017 dream to the harsh reality of 2026. We dive into the "blockchain, not Bitcoin" rebirth, the death of Discord-led communities, and why Wall Street's tokenization is missing the point. David shares his excitement for AI-driven capital markets, the innovative app ecosystem on MegaETH, and why his portfolio remains heavily weighted in ETH despite the nihilistic market sentiment. Notes: * Ryan Sean Adams took a 3-month sabbatical. * David Hoffman's portfolio is still mostly ETH. * Bankless VC fund downsized to 15-20 checks. * China is aggressively increasing gold reserves. Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:23 State of crypto 03:21 What's still exciting 08:14 Crypto's original vision 12:57 Community going away? 19:16 Hyperliquid 20:44 What are L2's actually being used for? 25:17 Ordering transactions 27:26 Ellipsis Labs Ad 28:14 Future of media 33:28 Money leaving the crypto space 35:41 Risk & return math 39:41 Bankless Ventures 45:07 Possible bright spots? 50:15 Future of Bankless 58:21 Bankless regrets 1:01:31 Fully changing his mind 1:04:28 Crypto's end game is here? 1:07:51 ETH: bull or bear? 1:10:40 David's personal portfolio? The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs builds the most efficient on-chain markets. Their orderbook and Prop AMM products have delivered price improvement to hundreds of billions of dollars in retail volume. Now, they are bringing their expertise to build Phoenix, the best on-chain perpetuals platform. Ellipsis Labs is hiring New York-based engineers. If you're an engineer looking to work with a proven team in making DeFi better, go to ellipsislabs.xyz/careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lucas & Hersch from World Markets joins us to break down why crypto trading infrastructure is fundamentally broken: how fully onchain order books, unified risk engines, and capital-efficient design could reshape perps trading. Chapters: 0:02 Intro & guest background 1:28 From exchanges to hedge funds 3:26 Monad vs MegaETH decision 5:00 Why L2s beat L1s for trading 6:49 DeFi security flaws explained 10:29 How onchain traders find alpha 18:01 What World Markets actually is 21:59 1010 Crash explained 28:13 Why centralized exchanges fail 47:48 The 50% basis trade example 53:00 Hersch finally gets to speak The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs builds the most efficient on-chain markets. Their orderbook and Prop AMM products have delivered price improvement to hundreds of billions of dollars in retail volume. Now, they are bringing their expertise to build Phoenix, the best on-chain perpetuals platform. Ellipsis Labs is hiring New York-based engineers. If you're an engineer looking to work with a proven team in making DeFi better, go to ellipsislabs dot xyz slash careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Max Resnick, Lead Economist at Anza, joins Gwart to talk about optimizing Solana for financial markets. He discusses the shift from Ethereum, the mechanics of MCP to stop censorship, and how "ACE" (Application Control Execution) empowers apps. Max discusses dominance of Prop AMMs, the controversy around block packing, and how Solana plans to compete with Hyperliquid in the perp market. Notes: - Binance retail fee is ~10 basis points- Prop AMM execution gap up to 10 bps- Humidify quotes 0.1 bps spreads Timestamps:00:00 Start00:28 Anza experience02:10 What's Max working on?05:41 New respect for development08:42 MCP > MEV12:33 Validators & toxic flow15:14 MCP status16:32 Writing code18:20 ACE21:30 Taker speed bump & Hyperliquid23:47 Oracle updates24:13 On-chain co-location26:38 Priority fee27:01 Deny list28:23 Tighter than Binance33:18 Spreads36:23 Prop AMM winners38:33 SEP & Solana40:40 MEV report44:55 User costs of MEV47:26 Block time reduction50:30 Transaction packing58:45 Prop AMMs & breaking composability1:01:23 Hyperliquid1:03:48 Solona slipping on Perps The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Backed by Paradigm, Electric Capital and Haun Ventures. The founders, Eugene and Jerry, have experienced Citadel Jane Street in the Solana Core team since launching their order book DEX, Phoenix. They’ve done over $80 billion in trading volume by making onchain order books competitive with centralized exchanges. Ellipsis is hiring for New York-based engineers. Work with a small focus team who are results driven, collaborative, and use a modern stack. If you’re an engineer who wants to work on infrastructure that’s already proven itself in the market, go to ⁠⁠ellipsislabs.xyz⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices