The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk and Katie Herzog discuss how to treat alcoholism. Katie Herzog is the co-host of the podcast Blocked and Reported and the author of Drink Your Way Sober: The Science-Based Method to Break Free from Alcohol. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Katie Herzog discuss Katie’s experience of alcoholism, the weaknesses of Alcoholics Anonymous, and why quitting cold turkey may not be the only way to overcome alcoholism. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Google⁠⁠⁠ X: ⁠⁠⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠Yascha Mounk⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Persuasion⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk, Francis Fukuyama, Sabina Ćudić, and Dan Williams discuss Donald Trump’s firing of a federal prosecutor and what this means for democracy in the United States, what the discussions around the assasination of Charlie Kirk tell us about misinformation, and the impact of RFK Jr.’s recent autism announcement. Francis Fukuyama is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. He is also the author of the “Frankly Fukuyama” column, carried forward from American Purpose, at Persuasion. Sabina Ćudić is a member of the National Parliament of Bosnia and Herzegovina, where she is the president of the Naša stranka political party club. Ćudić also serves as vice president of the Foreign Relations Committee, and is a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg, where she is a vice president of the European Liberals. Daniel Williams is an Assistant Professor of Philosophy at the University of Sussex. He writes the Conspicuous Cognition newsletter, which brings together philosophical insights and scientific research to examine the forces shaping contemporary society and politics. Note: This episode was recorded on September 23, 2025. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Randi Weingarten also discuss whether teachers unions are to blame for prolonged school closures during the pandemic. Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, has been attacked by the far right as “the most dangerous person in the world,” and is the author of Why Fascists Fear Teachers. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Randi Weingarten discuss why education is needed for a free society, the impact of social media on learning, and the school closures during covid. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Google⁠⁠ X: ⁠⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠Yascha Mounk⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Persuasion⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A live recording of The Good Fight Club in London! In this week’s episode of The Good Fight Club, Yascha Mounk is joined by Fraser Nelson, Helen Joyce, and Shashank Joshi to discuss the global fallout from the assassination of Charlie Kirk, the different ways free speech is under attack in the United Kingdom and the United States, and the future of Israel’s war in Gaza. Fraser Nelson is a British political journalist who was editor of The Spectator from 2009 to 2024. Nelson is also a columnist for The Times. Helen Joyce is an Irish journalist and the Director of Advocacy at Sex Matters. She is the author of Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality. Shashank Joshi is Defence Editor at The Economist, where he writes on a wide range of national security, defence and intelligence issues. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Steven Pinker is Johnstone Professor of Psychology at Harvard, an elected member of the National Academy of Sciences, a two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, a Humanist of the Year, one of Time’s “100 Most Influential People in the World Today,” and sits on Persuasion’s advisory board. His latest book is When Everyone Knows That Everyone Knows...: Common Knowledge and the Mysteries of Money, Power, and Everyday Life. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Steven Pinker discuss why common knowledge is the most important psychological concept you’ve never heard of, why authoritarian states are hostile to it, and where to find someone you’ve lost in New York. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Damon Linker discuss the fallout from the assassination of Charlie Kirk—and what happens next. Damon Linker is a senior lecturer in political science at the University of Pennsylvania and writes the subscription newsletter “Notes from the Middleground” at Substack. He is the author of The Theocons and The Religious Test. He is currently working on a book for Princeton University Press about Leo Strauss and his influence on the American right. In this conversation, Yascha Mounk and Damon Linker discuss reactions to the murder of Charlie Kirk, what it shows about polarization in America, and the likelihood of further political violence. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Google⁠⁠ X: ⁠⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠Yascha Mounk⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Persuasion⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠⁠Persuasion Community⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Brooks interviews Yascha Mounk to mark the paperback edition of The Identity Trap. Yascha Mounk is the founder and editor-in-chief of Persuasion. His latest book is The Identity Trap, which is out in paperback with a new afterword on September 23. David Brooks is a columnist for The New York Times and a contributor to The Atlantic. He is a commentator on The PBS Newshour. His latest book is How To Know A Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and David Brooks discuss how Yascha’s personal history influences his thought, the intellectual history behind the identity synthesis, and how to create a vision for the Democrats to inspire voters. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s episode of The Good Fight Club, Yascha Mounk, Ivan Krastev, Amanda Ripley, and Mike Pesca discuss what the Russian drones shot down in Poland mean for NATO, the impact of the Supreme Court’s recent decision on immigration, how the Democrats can hold Donald Trump to account, and declining reading rates in U.S. schools. Ivan Krastev is the chairman of the Centre for Liberal Strategies and Albert Hirschman Permanent Fellow at the Institute for Human Sciences, IWM Vienna. Amanda Ripley is the co-founder of Good Conflict, a media and training company that helps people reimagine conflict, and the author of High Conflict, The Smartest Kids in the World, and The Unthinkable. Mike is the host of The Gist, the longest-running daily news and analysis podcast in existence. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tom Ginsburg is the Leo Spitz Distinguished Service Professor of International Law, Professor of Political Science, and Faculty Director of the Malyi Center for the Study of Institutional and Legal Integrity and the Forum for Free Inquiry and Expression at the University of Chicago. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Tom Ginsburg explore different approaches to constitutions in the United States, Europe, and beyond, the advantages and disadvantages of the U.S. political system, and how to protect the First Amendment. Polarization is at an all-time high. It can feel daunting—perhaps even misguided—to engage in meaningful dialogue with those holding starkly different views. What does it mean to champion pluralism in such a moment? Persuasion’s new series on the future of pluralism, generously supported by the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, features longform essays and podcast interviews that make the case for civic dialogue and highlight inspiring examples of it in practice. You can find past installments here. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Daron Acemoglu is an Institute Professor of Economics in the Department of Economics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. His books include (with James A. Robinson) Why Nations Fail, and (with Simon Johnson) Power and Progress: Our Thousand-Year Struggle Over Technology and Prosperity. In 2024, he was awarded the Nobel Prize in economics. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Daron Acemoglu discuss the impact of colonialism, the role of culture in civil society, and China’s strengths and weaknesses. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and John Taylor Williams. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s episode of The Good Fight Club, Yascha Mounk, Francis Fukuyama, Mona Charen, and Russell Muirhead explore why the “Trump is dead” conspiracy took hold, the recent summit between Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, and Narendra Modi, and what the latest developments at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tell us about the fate of public health in America. Francis Fukuyama is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. He is also the author of the “Frankly Fukuyama” column, carried forward from American Purpose, at Persuasion. Mona Charen, syndicated columnist and author, is Policy Editor of The Bulwark and host of two weekly podcasts: The Mona Charen Show and Just Between Us. Russell Muirhead teaches Government at Dartmouth College. He is the author, with Nancy Rosenblum, of Ungoverning: The Attack on the Administrative State and the Politics of Chaos. He serves in the NH House of Representatives where he focuses on election law. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cass R. Sunstein is currently the Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard. His latest book is On Liberalism: In Defense of Freedom. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Cass Sunstein explore critiques from the left and the right, what different strands of liberalism can teach us, and why John Stuart Mill has the answer. We’re delighted to feature this conversation as part of our new series on Liberal Virtues and Values. That liberalism is under threat is now a cliché—yet this has done nothing to stem the global resurgence of illiberalism. Part of the problem is that liberalism is often considered too “thin” to win over the allegiance of citizens, and that liberals are too afraid of speaking in moral terms. Liberalism’s opponents, by contrast, speak to people’s passions and deepest moral sentiments. This series, made possible with the generous support of the John Templeton Foundation, aims to change that narrative. In podcast conversations and long-form pieces, we’ll feature content making the case that liberalism has its own distinctive set of virtues and values that are capable not only of responding to the dissatisfaction that drives authoritarianism, but also of restoring faith in liberalism as an ideology worth believing in—and defending—on its own terms. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Tyler Cowen also discuss AI and the state of the world economy. Tyler Cowen is an American economist, columnist, and blogger. Cowen is the Holbert L. Harris chair in economics at George Mason University, and is the co-author, with Alex Tabarrok, of the blog Marginal Revolution. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Tyler Cowen discuss the likely economic futures of Europe, Asia, and Africa; how the United States should approach competition with China; and what role young people should ascribe to personal financial advancement in their career choices. ⁠ This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clar⁠⁠i⁠⁠t⁠⁠y⁠⁠.⁠ Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following ⁠this link on your phone⁠. Email: [email protected] Website: ⁠http://www.persuasion.community⁠ Podcast production by ⁠Jack Shields⁠, and Brendan Ruberry Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ Twitter: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@joinpersuasion⁠ Youtube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Musa Al-Gharbi discuss why so many members of elite groups like to pretend they’re oppressed. Musa al-Gharbi is an assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. His most recent book is ⁠We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite⁠. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Musa Al-Gharbi discuss the tendency of certain elite groups to lay claim to marginalized identities as a form of symbolic capital; the challenges posed by "asymmetric multiculturalism," in which we encourage certain groups to organize along identitarian lines while discouraging others from doing the same; and how we can apply greater consistency to our analysis of social dynamics. ⁠This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clari⁠⁠t⁠⁠y⁠⁠.⁠ Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following ⁠this link on your phone⁠. Email: [email protected] Website: ⁠http://www.persuasion.community⁠ Podcast production by ⁠Jack Shields⁠, and Brendan Ruberry Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ Twitter: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@joinpersuasion⁠ Youtube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What transforms reasonable people into an angry mob? Why are we so eager to dismiss those who disagree with us as inherently evil? These are questions which Jonathan Haidt has spent his career trying to answer. One of the world’s most influential social psychologists and a member of Persuasion's Board of Advisors, he argues that a lot of recent cultural shifts are encouraging emotional fragility rather than resilience. A professor of ethical leadership at NYU's Stern School of Business, Haidt seeks to employ moral psychology to promote dialogue rather than division. In this week’s episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk sits down with Jonathan Haidt to discuss psychological differences between the left and the right, the human tendency to discriminate in favor of the in-group, and how to build a less tribal culture and country. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Arlie Hochschild is an author and professor emerita of sociology at the University of California, Berkeley. Her books include Stolen Pride: Loss, Shame, and the Rise of the Right and Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Arlie Hochschild discuss the fear of empathy among the American left, the impact of the loss of pride among white working class communities, and how to understand the deep story of Latinos who voted for Trump in 2024. ⁠ This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clar⁠⁠i⁠⁠t⁠⁠y⁠⁠.⁠ Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following ⁠this link on your phone⁠. Email: [email protected] Website: ⁠http://www.persuasion.community⁠ Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ Twitter: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@joinpersuasion⁠ Youtube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s conversation, recorded live in D.C. at the “Liberalism for the 21st Century” conference, Yascha Mounk, Francis Fukuyama, Steven Pinker, and Sabina Ćudić discuss Trump’s firings and what this means for the civil service, how to build a positive case for liberalism, and the impact of the rise of AI. Steven Pinker is Johnstone Professor of Psychology at Harvard, an elected member of the National Academy of Sciences, a two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, a Humanist of the Year, and one of Time’s “100 Most Influential People in the World Today.” His latest book is When Everyone Knows That Everyone Knows...: Common Knowledge and the Mysteries of Money, Power, and Everyday Life. Francis Fukuyama is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. He is also the author of the “Frankly Fukuyama” column, carried forward from American Purpose, at Persuasion. Sabina Ćudić is a member of the National Parliament of Bosnia and Herzegovina, where she is the president of the Naša stranka political party club. Ćudić also serves as vice president of the Foreign Relations Committee, and is a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg, where she is a vice president of the European liberals. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and John Taylor Williams. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re delighted to feature this conversation as part of our new series on Liberal Virtues and Values. That liberalism is under threat is now a cliché—yet this has done nothing to stem the global resurgence of illiberalism. Part of the problem is that liberalism is often considered too “thin” to win over the allegiance of citizens, and that liberals are too afraid of speaking in moral terms. Liberalism’s opponents, by contrast, speak to people’s passions and deepest moral sentiments. This series, made possible with the generous support of the John Templeton Foundation, aims to change that narrative. In podcast conversations and long-form pieces, we'll feature content making the case that liberalism has its own distinctive set of virtues and values that are capable not only of responding to the dissatisfaction that drives authoritarianism, but also of restoring faith in liberalism as an ideology worth believing in—and defending—on its own terms. David Enoch is professor of the philosophy of law at Oxford, and a professor of law and philosophy at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He is the author of Taking Morality Seriously: A Defense of Robust Realism. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and David Enoch explore why liberalism is being defended in the wrong way, why we should be moral objectivists, and how to fight for liberal values. Note: This episode was recorded on July 14, 2025. This conversation was made possible through the support of Grant 63690 from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Christine Rosen discuss the societal consequences of always being online. Christine Rosen is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. She is also a monthly columnist for Commentary magazine, one of the cohosts of The Commentary Magazine Daily Podcast, a fellow at the University of Virginia’s Institute for Advanced Studies in Culture, and senior editor at The New Atlantis. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Christine Rosen discuss the perils of online dating, the impact of public shaming, and why the internet makes it harder to develop a sense of self. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Google⁠⁠ X: ⁠⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠Yascha Mounk⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Persuasion⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Miles Taylor is a national security expert. Based in Washington, D.C., he is editor of the recently launched newsletter Treason on Substack. Taylor previously served as chief of staff at the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, where he published an “Anonymous” essay in The New York Times, blowing the whistle on presidential misconduct. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Miles Taylor discuss to what extent the “adults in the room” made a difference in Donald Trump’s first administration, the president's disregard for rule of law, and why Taylor wrote the anonymous New York Times op-ed about internal resistance to the first Trump administration. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Thomas Chatterton Williams explore what the summer of 2020 showed about America. Thomas Chatterton Williams is a staff writer at The Atlantic and the author of Losing My Cool, Self-Portrait in Black and White, and Summer of Our Discontent. He is a visiting professor of humanities and senior fellow at the Hannah Arendt Center at Bard College, a 2022 Guggenheim fellow, and a visiting fellow at AEI. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Thomas Chatterton Williams discuss why the summer of 2020 played out as it did, the subsequent backlash, and why ideas core to the 2020 protests have now been quietly abandoned. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jesse Singal is cohost of the podcast Blocked and Reported, author of the newsletter Singal-Minded, and a contributing writer at The Dispatch. His first book is The Quick Fix: Why Fad Psychology Can’t Cure Our Social Ills, and he is working on his second, which is about the American debate over youth gender medicine. In this week’s episode, Yascha Mounk and Jesse Singal explore whether wokeness is over, the future of the Democratic Party, and why social science is in crisis. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Yascha Mounk is joined by Mona Charen, Francis Fukuyama, and Ivan Krastev to discuss how the latest revelations about Epstein will affect Donald Trump, the Trump administration’s war on universities, Volodymyr Zelensky’s bill on anti-corruption agencies, and the recent attacks on the independence of the Fed. Mona Charen, syndicated columnist and author, is Policy Editor of The Bulwark and host of two weekly podcasts: The Mona Charen Show and Just Between Us. Ivan Krastev is the chairman of the Centre for Liberal Strategies and Albert Hirschman Permanent Fellow at the Institute for Human Sciences, IWM Vienna. Francis Fukuyama is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Isaac Saul is a politics reporter and the founder of Tangle, an independent, nonpartisan news outlet. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Isaac Saul discuss the importance of exploring both sides of an argument, whether Donald Trump’s executive overreach amounts to authoritarianism, and how to handle immigration. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Dan Williams discuss fake news. Daniel Williams is an Assistant Professor of Philosophy at the University of Sussex. He writes the Conspicuous Cognition newsletter, which brings together philosophical insights and scientific research to examine the forces shaping contemporary society and politics. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Dan Williams explore whether the term misinformation is defined too broadly, how to judge if something is fake news, and what is meant by the “everyone is biased” bias. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Steven Teles is a professor of Political Science at Johns Hopkins University. He is the co-author of a number of books, including The Captured Economy, Never Trump: The Revolt of the Conservative Elites, and Prison Break: Why Conservatives Turned Against Mass Incarceration. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Steven Teles discuss what abundance means in practice, how it fits into a broader policy agenda, and the future of U.S. universities. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Alex Thompson discuss who knew what—and when. Alex Thompson is a national political correspondent for Axios and the co-author, with Jake Tapper, of Original Sin: President Biden’s Decline, Its Cover-up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Alex Thompson discuss when Biden’s mental state first became concerning, the cover up, and the motivations of Biden’s team and of other members of the Democratic Party during that period. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Martin Wolf is Associate Editor and Chief Economics Commentator at the Financial Times, London. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Martin Wolf discuss Donald Trump’s “big, beautiful bill,” the impact it will have on Trump’s supporters, and whether the United States is facing a looming economic crisis. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk, Dean Spears and Michael Geruso explore whether a higher population really impacts climate change, why more people on the planet means more geniuses, and how we can avoid depopulation. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Luke Tryl is the Executive Director of More in Common UK, where he leads the organization’s work on public opinion. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Luke Tryl discuss where Keir Starmer has gone wrong, the reasons behind the rise of Reform UK, and whether time’s up for the Conservative Party. Note: This conversation was recorded on June 6, 2025. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Irshad Manji also discuss how to have dialogue with ideological opponents. Irshad Manji is the founder of Moral Courage College, which equips people worldwide to turn heated issues into healthy conversations and sustained teamwork. Her latest book is Don’t Label Me: How to Do Diversity Without Inflaming the Culture Wars. In this week’s episode, Yascha Mounk and Irshad Manji discuss how it feels to become a U.S. citizen during turbulent times, how to have conversations about controversial topics without being canceled, and how to resist the temptation of being right about everything. Polarization is at an all-time high. It can feel daunting—perhaps even misguided—to engage in meaningful dialogue with those holding starkly different views. What does it mean to champion pluralism in such a moment? Persuasion’s series on the future of pluralism, generously supported by the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, features longform essays and podcast interviews that make the case for civic dialogue and highlight inspiring examples of it in practice. You can find the full series here. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Francis Fukuyama is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. He is also the author of the “Frankly Fukuyama” column, carried forward from American Purpose, at Persuasion. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Francis Fukuyama discuss what the U.S. strikes in Iran mean for global and domestic politics, to what extent Israel is risking its relationship with the United States, and why we should be concerned about AI. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Peter Hessler describe how China has changed over the last 30 years–and where it might go next. For more than a quarter of a century, Peter Hessler has been a staff writer for the New Yorker. In 1996, he joined the Peace Corps and taught English language and literature to college students in Fuling, a small city on the Yangtze River. In 2019, Hessler returned to China, teaching at Sichuan University during the pandemic. His most recent book, Other Rivers (2024), is about his time in Sichuan. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Peter Hessler discuss Peter’s experiences as a teacher in China in the 1990s and in recent years, how his students have changed, and what he thinks the United States could learn from China. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Helen Lewis is a staff writer at The Atlantic who writes about politics and culture. Her latest book, The Genius Myth: A Curious History of a Dangerous Idea, is out now. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Helen Lewis explore what our ideas of genius mean, whether you need to die young to be considered one—and why no one cares about geniuses with boring lives. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Lenore Skenazy discuss why kids should take risks. After letting her 9-year-old ride the New York City subway alone—and creating a media firestorm—Lenore Skenazy wrote the book, “Free-Range Kids.” Lenore is also a co-founder of Let Grow. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Lenore Skenazy explore why parents are reluctant to let their children take risks, how unsupervised activities help children learn, and how to embrace giving your kids independence. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Shashank Joshi is Defence Editor at The Economist, where he writes on a wide range of national security, defence and intelligence issues. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Shashank Joshi discuss how technology is changing warfare, the latest developments in Ukraine, and the future of Gaza. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Mark Lynas on how to avoid armageddon. Mark Lynas is an author, campaigner and speaker. He is science advisor with the Climate Vulnerable Forum and policy lead with WePlanet, a pro-science environmental advocacy network active in over 20 countries. His latest book is Six Minutes to Winter: Nuclear War and How to Avoid It. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Mark Lynas discuss how likely a nuclear war is, what a nuclear winter would look like, and how to avoid it. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Leonhardt is an editorial director for New York Times Opinion. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and David Leonhardt discuss why the left is losing its appeal to the working classes in the United States and in Europe, the flaws in the Democratic Party’s approach to voters, and what U.S. Democrats can learn from the Social Democrats in Denmark. Note: This interview was recorded on March 18, 2025. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Quico Toro explore what’s holding environmentalists back. Quico Toro is Director of Climate Repair at the Anthropocene Institute, a contributing editor at Persuasion, and writes the Substack One Percent Brighter. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Quico Toro discuss outdated ideas within environmentalism, why we need to decarbonize—and how technology can save us. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Steve Stewart-Williams is a professor of psychology at the University of Nottingham Malaysia, and author of The Ape That Understood the Universe (2018), Darwin, God and the Meaning of Life (2010), and The Nature-Nurture-Nietzsche Newsletter on Substack. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Steve Stewart-Williams explore the nature vs nurture debate within psychology, how much impact IQ has on an individual’s success in life, and whether evolutionary psychology can explain politics. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Paul Krugman also explore whether the Euro was a mistake. Paul Krugman is the Distinguished Professor of Economics at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. He was a columnist for The New York Times from 2000 to 2024. In 2008, Krugman was the sole winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for his contributions to new trade theory and new economic geography. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Paul Krugman discuss the value of economic models, the Euro crisis, and how to make a fruitful intellectual contribution in economics. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Katja Hoyer is a visiting Research Fellow at King's College London and a Fellow of the Royal Historical Society, and is the author of Blood and Iron: The Rise and Fall of the German Empire, 1871–1918 and Beyond the Wall: East Germany 1949-1990. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Katja Hoyer discuss life in the German Democratic Republic (GDR), how it is remembered today—and whether the Wall still has an impact on German politics today. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Frances E. Lee is professor of politics and public affairs at Princeton University. In addition to In Covid’s Wake: How Our Politics Failed Us, she is author or coauthor most recently of The Limits of Party: Congress and Lawmaking in a Polarized Era and Insecure Majorities: Congress and the Perpetual Campaign. Stephen Macedo is the Laurance S. Rockefeller Professor of Politics and the University Center for Human Values at Princeton University. His books, in addition to In Covid’s Wake: How Our Politics Failed Us, include Just Married: Same-Sex Couples, Monogamy, and the Future of Marriage, and Diversity and Distrust: Civic Education in a Multicultural Democracy. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk, Frances Lee, and Stephen Macedo discuss school closures during COVID, why Republicans and Democrats reacted differently to the pandemic, why institutions failed, and why as a consequence institutions lost the public’s trust. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Pratap Bhanu Mehta is Senior Fellow at the Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi and Laurence Rockefeller Visiting Professor for Distinguished Teaching at Princeton University. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Pratap Mehta discuss nationalism, radical forms of self-identity, and the likelihood of war between India and Pakistan. Note: The first part of this conversation was recorded on April 30, 2025 with a follow up on May 12, 2025. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Elaine C. Kamarck is a senior fellow in Governance Studies and the director of the Center for Effective Public Management at Brookings. William A. Galston is a senior fellow and the Ezra K. Zilkha Chair in the Governance Studies program at Brookings. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk, Elaine Kamarck, and William Galston explore why the Democrats aren’t building long-term coalitions, how the Democrats lost the working class, and how centrists in the party can create a compelling offer for voters. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rutger Bregman is an historian and author. He is the co-founder of The School for Moral Ambition, a new initiative to mobilize talented professionals to work on the world’s most pressing problems. His latest book, Moral Ambition, explores how we can build lives and careers that make a real difference. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Rutger Bregman discuss what it means to have moral ambition, how to know which causes deserve support—and how to make the world vegan. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kevin Mitchell is Associate Professor of Genetics and Neuroscience at Trinity College Dublin. He studies the interplay between genes, brains, and minds. He is the author of Innate: How the Wiring of Our Brains Shapes Who We Are and Free Agents: How Evolution Gave Us Free Will. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Kevin Mitchell discuss the arguments against free will, if evolution supports free will, and how much control we have over our decisions. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Claire Lehmann is an Australian publisher and journalist who founded the online magazine Quillette in 2015. She serves as Editor-in-Chief of Quillette and contributes regularly to The Australian newspaper. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Sarah Longwell also discuss who—if anyone—can save the Democrats. Sarah Longwell is the publisher of The Bulwark, which she helped found in 2019. She regularly conducts focus groups with voters across the political spectrum and hosts the podcast “The Focus Group,” which is in its fifth season, and co-hosts “The Next Level” podcast and “The Secret Podcast.” In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Sarah Longwell discuss which voter segments support Donald Trump, what might change their minds, and which potential candidates could help the Democratic Party stage a comeback. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following ⁠this link on your phone⁠. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ivan Krastev is the chairman of the Centre for Liberal Strategies and Albert Hirschman Permanent Fellow at the Institute for Human Sciences, IWM Vienna. His books include Is it Tomorrow, Yet? After Europe, and The Light that Failed: A Reckoning, which was co-authored by Stephen Holmes. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Ivan Krastev explore how Donald Trump is—and isn’t—similar to Mikhail Gorbachev, the impact of the Trump revolution, and whether we’ve finally reached the end of history. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices