The Gist

On The Gist, dishonesty and the media. In the interview, Norbert Leo Butz is a Broadway powerhouse who's been in all sorts of projects like Wicked and Catch Me If You Can, but he's also a talented musician out with a new album, The Long Haul. He's here to talk with Mike about his new music, how he fit writing it into his life, and the business of Broadway. In the Spiel, is Donald Trump's presidency more dangerous than Andrew Johnson's? Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, getting pronunciations right and extremely wrong. In the interview, comedian Gary Gulman talks to Mike about his new HBO comedy special The Great Depresh, how he talks about mental health on stage, and the magic of vision boards. In the Spiel, the Ukraine saga. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, suing the swamp. In the interview, Marc Randolph is here to talk with Mike about the early beginnings of Netflix, his relationship with co-founder Reed Hastings, and what he's doing now post-Netflix. Randolph's new book is That Will Never Work: The Birth of Netflix and the Amazing Life of an Idea. In the Spiel, accusing somebody of treason might be a reason to impeach. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, the Zuckerberg audio leaks. In the interview, Martha Minow is here to talk with Mike about forgiveness, who should be forgiven, and how to incorporate more forgiveness in the U.S. legal system. Minow's new book is When Should Law Forgive? In the Spiel, class resentment. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, what's going on at Café Altura? In the interview, journalist Amanda Aronczyk is here to talk with Mike about her recent series for WNYC's The Stakes podcast, "A History of Persuasion." Through the lens of Ted Kaczynski she explores the way behavioral psychology has been used to shape the way we think, and how the manipulation has only ramped up thanks to the tech industry. In the Spiel, Giuliani, Stephen Miller, and self-impeachment. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Trump and Ukraine-gate? In the interview, journalist and author Mary Lane is here to talk with Mike about Hitler's art, how he seized "degenerate" art in Germany, and the people who finally recovered these lost works in 2013. Lane's new book is Hitler's Last Hostages: Looted Art and the Soul of the Third Reich. In the Spiel, the whistleblower complaint. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, MSNBC cutting Trump's speech short. In the interview, writer Katy Lederer is here to talk with Mike about Greta Thunberg, why she's such a force, and if she will bring about any change. Lederer's latest piece on Thunberg is "Can They Read," in n+1. In the Spiel, whistleblowing and the Maguire hearing. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, the beginning of the Trump and Ukraine analysis. In the interview, CIA alum and head of Lawfare David Priess is here to talk with Mike about impeachment, the Ukraine phone call, and this time things are different. Priess' latest book is How to Get Rid of a President: History's Guide to Removing Unpopular, Unable, or Unfit Chief Executives. In the Spiel, Trump's press conference and meeting with the Ukraine president. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, journalist Lauren Duca is here to talk with Mike about her new book, inspiring young people to get more involved in politics, how activism and journalism might intersect, and the problems with our binary political system. Duca's new book is How to Start a Revolution: Young People and the Future of Politics. In the Spiel, impeachment? Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, the news we missed during Comedy Week. In the interview, Rachel Monroe is here to talk with Mike about why people, and women in particular, are so interested in true crime. Is it a new thing or just newly popular? Does being an at-home sleuth help in any way? Monroe's new book is Savage Appetites: Four Stories of Women, Crime, and Obsession. In the Spiel, Trump and the hostless Emmy Awards. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, late-night writers Steve Waltien, Bryan Tucker, and Alison Leiby sit down with Mike to discuss what it's like to write on a late-night show. How do they deal with the constant churn of topical humor? Why is it so difficult to continue laughing through Trump? And what is the Sean Penn test? Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, screenwriters Dana Fox and John August, and film critic K. Austin Collins are here to talk all about the comedy film. What makes a funny movie? how has that changed over the years? And has humor just creeped its way into all the other genres without us realizing? Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, our third part of comedy week is all about comedy podcasts. Podcast hosts Jesse Thorn and Ron Funches join Mike to talk about the wide variety of comedy podcasts, how they both got started, and why they are such a freeing avenue for comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, our second installment in this week of comedy focuses on the world of improv. Improvisers Amber Nash, TJ Jagodowski, and Zach Cherry join Mike to talk about what the improv scene is like in their respective cities, how the form has grown so quickly in the last 30 years, and why collaboration is such an exciting way to get a laugh. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, we're kicking off our week on the world of comedy by talking to three comedians about the state of stand-up comedy. Adam Ferrara, Aparna Nancherla, and Hari Kondabolu talk with Mike about the way they perform, how they interact with their audience and fans, and pushing boundaries in the art form. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, questions the debate needed. In the interview, director Lorene Scafaria is here to talk with Mike about the new film Hustlers. They discuss recruiting Jennifer Lopez, Lizzo, and Cardi B, the importance of Chopin, and filming at a strip club. In the Spiel, the crazy things said during the debate. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, what should we care about? In the interview, Jon Lovett is here to talk with Mike about Joe Biden, debate in liberal roundtables, the Overton window, and the live Lovett or Leave It show at Radio City Music Hall on September 13, 2019. In the Spiel, Joe Biden is fading. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Fort Campbell middle schoolers and the border wall. In the interview, journalist Ramona Shelburne is here to talk about her new five-part 30 for 30 series on Donald Sterling and the Clippers. She and Mike discuss how she started covering the Clippers, reporting out the Sterling story at the time, and the subsequent fallout. Her new series is The Sterling Affairs. In the Spiel, Donald Sterling, Donald Trump, and the for-profit presidency. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Bolton is out. In the interview, New York Times TV critic James Poniewozik is here to talk about his new book about Trump and television. He and Mike discuss how the increasing variety of television networks and the boom of reality TV led to Trump, and his similarities to the classic anti-hero trope. Poniewozik's new book is Audience of One: Donald Trump, Television, and the Fracturing of America. In the Spiel, mass shootings and mental health. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Trump and Scotland. In the interview, creator of xkcd Randall Munroe is here to talk about his new book How To: Absurd Scientific Advice for Common Real-World Problems. He and Mike talk about puzzling out the chicken and the egg, testing nuclear weapons on beverages, and how Serena Williams fits into his scientific exploration. In the Spiel, the Taliban and Camp David. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Trump's lightbulbs. In the interview, economists weren't always at the levers of public policy in America. The New York Times' Binyamin Appelbaum tracked the profession's post-war movement into power, and how the laissez-faire philosophy economists (by and large) brought with them has failed us. Appelbaum is the author of The Economists' Hour: False Prophets, Free Markets, and the Fracture of Society. In the Spiel, hurricanes and global warming. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Mike Pence and Boris Johnson. In the interview, it's internet linguist Gretchen McCulloch on how the language we use has been shaped by the information superhighway—and for starters, people never say "information superhighway" anymore. They also write more (everyone's a writer on the internet) and less formally, though without shedding whatever regional dialect they may have. McCulloch is the author of Because Internet: Understanding the New Rules of Language. In the Spiel, the climate change debate. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, it's Boris Johnson's show now. In the interview, Thomas Sheridan isn't your mother's lobbyist—or wait, maybe he is? His firm, the Sheridan Group, fights for social change. He tells Mike about why lobbyists aren't all bad, how he got his start, and the tough battles he's faced over the years. Sheridan's new book is Helping the Good Do Better: How a White Hat Lobbyist Advocates for Social Change. In the Spiel, there's a solution to higher rates of maternal mortality among black women, and it involves putting the problem in perspective. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, how hurricanes are like racism. In the interview, talk radio has shaped so much of our political discourse, often in ways we don't even realize. Brian Rosenwald sought to figure out just how much influence it's had and condensed it all into his new book Talk Radio's America: How an Industry Took Over a Political Party That Took Over the United States. He's here to talk with Mike about Rush Limbaugh's early years, the outsized importance of Roger Ailes, and where this leaves us today. In the Spiel, president Trump's pre-hurricane golfing is the last thing we should be worrying about. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, this week in the news, truth is stranger than science fiction. In the interview, guest host Seth Stevenson talks to the executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. And it turns out that when you're a citizen for responsibility and ethics, as Noah Bookbinder is, you see plenty going wrong in Washington. In the Spiel, Greta Thunberg's cross-Atlantic trip was an exercise in inconvenience. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, journalist and podcast host Lauren Ober was shocked to realize Chelsea Manning is back in jail. In the interview, Ober talks with journalist Vanessa Grigoriadis about the new podcast Tabloid: The Making of Ivanka Trump. What's it like to go from aspiring socialite to familial lackey? Is there any room for pity? And when is she headed for Burning Man? In the Spiel, female political fashion. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, journalist Katie Herzog fills in for Mike Pesca and focuses on cancel culture. In the interview, Herzog interviews filmmaker Rhys Ernst about his new film Adam, and the queer backlash against the film. What's it like for your own community to try and cancel you? Is all the extra publicity a good thing? And how does attempted cancellation age? In the Spiel, unproductive Antifa protests. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Trump is a bad negotiator. In the interview, you've probably heard of face blindness. And you possibly wondered whether it was a real thing. Do some people really walk the world, full of other people as it is, without the ability to recognize them from their features? They do. Sadie Dingfelder shared her experience over at the Washington Post, and does so now on The Gist. In the Spiel, the Everything Is Alive tariff-a-thon. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, if an eleventh Democratic candidate makes the next debate in Houston, we'll hear more from all of them (because they'll be split across two nights!). In the interview, it's part II of Mike's discussion with Oregon Sen. Jeff Merkley. They talk about the filibuster (this junior senator says "it has to go") and the daunting task that is healing the upper chamber of Congress. Merkley is the author of America Is Better Than This: Trump's War Against Migrant Families. In the Spiel, the David Koch obituaries are in. But are they fair? Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, the Amazon is on fire. In the interview, Sen. Jeff Merkley was the first member of Congress to visit the migrant detention centers along the border and view the atrocious ways we were treating the people forced to live there. He's here to talk with Mike about the crisis, the failure of the Trump administration, and what we can do about it. His new book is America Is Better Than This: Trump's War Against Migrant Families. In the Spiel, Trump and Israel. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Scaramucci was wrong about Trump. In the interview, journalist David Robson is here to talk about his new book The Intelligence Trap: Why Smart People Make Dumb Mistakes. He and Mike talk the intelligence quotient, the blind spots smart people have, and why it might be a good idea to talk about yourself in the third person. In the Spiel, Trump as all of America. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, if Peter Navarro wants to criticize the Wall Street Journal, he really ought to read it once in a while. In the interview, it's easy to condemn the CIA's post-9/11 interrogation techniques in retrospect. But as agency alumnus Philip Mudd puts it, "boy, back then, people said 'take out the stops, make sure it doesn't happen again.'" He talks about the relative effectiveness of harsh interrogation techniques, and why that shouldn't be a factor if ever American forces countenance them again (answer: the issue is a moral one). Mudd is a former deputy director at the Counterterrorism Center and the author of Black Site: The CIA in the Post-9/11 World. In the Spiel, there isn't all that much conservative hand-wringing over the New York Times' special coverage of historical slavery in America… but what's there is pretty uninspired. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, despite what Peter Navarro says, a yield curve inversion there was indeed (and a recession there may be). In the interview, in a Democratic field crowded with grand policy promises, Tim Ryan's more centrist ideas have been crowded out. But should they be? The Ohio congressman tells Mike about increasing manufacturing and focusing education on social and emotional learning. In the Spiel, the difference between bad politics and bad policy. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, the varying sizes of Trump and Greenland. In the interview, journalist Steve Rushin is here to talk with Mike about his new memoir Nights at White Castle. They discuss the amorphous nature of nostalgia, why children should go on boring vacations, and the podcast Ball & Chain that he hosts with his wife, basketball great Rebecca Lobo. In the Spiel, Sha Na Na. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Slate's Jordan Weissmann tells guest host Sean McElwee which presidential candidates' signature ideas are hot (and which are not). In the interview, the Green New Deal isn't just a set of climate policies—it's a chance to break with the uneven benefits afforded by the original New Deal and other progressive policies. Julian Brave NoiseCat (McElwee's colleague at Data for Progress) and activist Adrien Salazar (of the think tank Demos) are in the studio to share their expertise on the stimulus package. In the Spiel, McElwee digs into polling results from his own Data for Progress. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, getting a bit willy-nilly with "white supremacy." In the interview, John Hickenlooper may be mulling a pivot from presidential to Senate candidate, but he was at the Iowa State Fair to weigh in on issues that affect the entire country—and to strike a moderate tone. In last year's midterms, he says, "the successful Democrat did not embrace the Green New Deal and did not embrace 'Medicare for All.' That's what we're going to need to do to beat Donald Trump." In the Spiel, there is no greater joy than knowing which kids' shows—from our own generation or not—are crap. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Biden's gaffes. In the interview, Maria Konnikova, author of The Confidence Game, is back for another round of Is That Bullshit? This time she and Mike talk all about attention spans. There always seem to be claims that attention spans are shrinking, but is that true? Should we be worried that we feel distracted more and more or just take a deep breath and embrace it? In the Spiel, the Ebola cure. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, the opinions of the people at the Iowa State Fair. In the interview, Jay Inslee was among the 21 Democratic presidential candidates to converge on the Iowa State Fair this past weekend. Washington's governor grabbed a seat with Mike to talk about applying his state's environmental victories to the federal level, taxing Amazon, and getting rid of the gridlocking filibuster. In the Spiel, The Gist went to the Iowa State Fair and got answers from Democratic presidential candidates about filibuster reform. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, the real consequences of immigration laws. In the interview, Charles Duhigg is who you get when you combine an investigative reporter with an agony aunt. In his new Slate podcast (How To!), he teases out advice on everyday problems, from how to tell a good joke to how to rob a bank (alright, the problems aren't that common). You can subscribe to How To! on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. In the Spiel, Trump, children, and shootings. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Montana has gone a little berserk. In the interview, Joshua Cohen is here to discuss his new book Attention: Dispatches From the Land of Distraction, and the many discursions he and Mike go on thanks to it. Like the depth of Bernie's political policies, Trump's time in Atlantic City, and why the circus is so important to the history of American culture. In the Spiel, Trump's distraction tactics. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Dayton and El Paso deserve better than the presence of Donald Trump. In the interview, FiveThirtyEight elections analyst Geoffrey Skelley talks through what Democrats need to do to turn out voters in 2020. Should they focus on the "Obama coalition" that elected him twice? Or is it smarter to turn toward Obama voters that then voted for Trump in 2016? Why not both? In the Spiel, anyone telling you the decade-long Assault Weapons Ban was ineffective is talking nonsense. Want to see a special episode of The Gist live in New York? Get your tickets here! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, if you want gun control, you clearly have to just vote Democrat. In the interview, the tit-for-tat trade war with China is unceasing. Slate's Jordan Weissmann tells Mike about the latest developments in the fight between presidents Trump and Xi Jinping, whether or not China is really manipulating its currency, and the potential paths ahead. In the Spiel, Americans are getting angry over all the wrong things. It's infuriating! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, this weekend's mass shooters had different motives. It won't do to draw lessons from just one of them. In the interview, Amherst College professor Austin Sarat wants to enlist gun owners themselves in the fight for firearm regulation. "48 percent of gun owners favor a ban on assault weapons," he says, citing the Pew Research Center. The problem is convincing them that gun control advocates aren't pushing for full-on confiscation. Sarat is the co-editor of The Lives of Guns. In the Spiel, the one clear factor in America's growing mass shooting problem? Rifles. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, a theory as to why we still hear dusty old terms like "happy warrior"—at least during election season. In the interview, Slate writer Christina Cauterucci, who recently wrote about Al Franken, criticizes a recent New Yorker story on the ousted senator. She and Mike break down what they think its author Jane Mayer got wrong and right, the facts of the reporting, and why we shouldn't think of the #MeToo movement as one with winners and losers. In the Spiel, John Ratcliffe is thankfully out of consideration for the job of Director of National Intelligence. But it's a shame that he's still acceptable as a congressman. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, the Democrats making Republican soundbites. In the interview, Fantastic Negrito walked a long and winding road to blues stardom. His first album (under his legal name, Xavier) was a bust—"everyone hated it"—and saw him dropped from his label. He'd also gotten into a serious car accident and sold off his instruments before returning to music. That's when the Grammys started rolling in—he's won two in the last three years, for best contemporary blues album. His latest record is Please Don't Be Dead. In the Spiel, Joe Biden at the debate. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Jeffrey Epstein's ideas. In the interview, when Chuck Klosterman writes non-fiction, he worries about missing some grand historical context in a way that would ruin his work. With fiction, that anxiety goes out the window— if someone reads one of his short stories and thinks something "completely unrelated to what I thought, it's still okay." Klosterman digs into that, the advantages of an education outside the ivory tower, and what the Beatles really did for rock music. His new book of short stories is Raised in Captivity: Fictional Nonfiction. In the Spiel, the first night of the CNN debates and Marianne Williamson. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, billionaire Tom Steyer didn't qualify for this round of Democratic debates, but he's bought a lot of CNN ad space to make up for it. In the interview, political consultants David Axelrod and Mike Murphy have spent years advising politicians on the best ways to run campaigns—Axelrod with Barack Obama and Murphy with candidates like John McCain and Mitt Romney. Now they've come together on a new podcast, Hacks on Tap, to talk through how the political machine actually runs, the Democratic debates, and what Trump's prospects look like in 2020. In the Spiel, among the septuagenarian presidential candidates, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are the only ones with all their marbles. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Trump and racism. In the interview, Politico's Tim Alberta has been covering the Republican Party since 2009, back when it was "totally rudderless and beaten into the ground." Ten years later, and though in control of the White House, the GOP isn't in much better shape. Alberta's new book is American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. In the Spiel, impeachment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A few months ago, Dan Taberski joined us to talk about latest season of his Headlong podcast, Running From Cops, focused on reality television shows about police. One series in particular, Live PD, was billed as a documentary but seemed to fall into the same bad practices as other reality programming. Taberski tried to interview the Dan Abrams, the show's host, and was never able to get him on mic. Lucky for us, in 2016 Mike interviewed Abrams for The Gist when Live PD was first airing. So we're airing a few clips of Mike's conversation with Taberski, the Running From Cops segment about Live PD, and Mike's 2016 interview with Abrams. Enjoy the cop-a-thon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On The Gist, Robert Mueller was a bit of a broken record in his congressional testimony. In the interview, David Wolman once happened upon a small Hawaiian museum dedicated to a small crew of cowboys in the state—and that was the first he heard of them. He teamed up with Julian Smith to dig into the fascinating history of these cowpokes and how they dazzled the world at the 1908 World Rodeo Championships. Their new book is Aloha Rodeo: Three Hawaiian Cowboys, the World's Greatest Rodeo, and a Hidden History of the American West. In the Spiel, we've perhaps seen the last of Robert Mueller's public statements. And the impeachment needle hasn't moved one bit. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.