BS 122 – Israel Genocide, Houthi, Pakistan, Iran

BSF 122

[00:00:00] Cameron:

[00:00:13] Cameron: Welcome to the Bullshit Filter episode 122. Feel sorry for all the people who miss out on our pre show banter.

[00:00:27] Ray: That’s the best part.

[00:00:29] Cameron: is the

[00:00:29] Ray: just, we go at each other. Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck me, fuck you, fuck you. And then we, then we’re nice to each other.

[00:00:37] Cameron: Episode 122. Before we get into today’s stories, I want to give a shout out to my mate, Chris Saad. I give a plug for a product that he soft launched to me a couple of months ago. It’s called Wingman, um, something that you could have used, uh, throughout your life. Um, and you are my Wingman, that’s how I think about it.

[00:00:57] Cameron: This is, this is replacing you in a way. It’s, you can, you can look it up at getwingman. ai and it’s, um, it’s a Chrome plugin.

[00:01:07] Ray: Mmhmm.

[00:01:09] Cameron: And it’s great, and I’ve participated a little bit in the thinking of the later stages of it, but if you go to any news story on a news website, BBC, New York Times, ABC, whatever it is, it’ll pop up a sidebar that uses GPT to break down the story. First of all, it’ll give you an executive summary of the story, but then below that it will call out the biases shown in the reporting of the story, the language that is used that may be, um, giving you a particular, uh, intended flavor or direction or whatever.

[00:01:48] Cameron: It also gives you the historical context of the story. So if you’re reading something about Israel Gaza, it’ll give you a background on the historical context. Then, and this was my suggestion, one of my suggestions, anyway, below that it’ll give you a mini bio on anyone who’s mentioned in the story. Just one line, who they are, what their, what their background is.

[00:02:07] Cameron: with links, I think, to their Wikipedia profile. So you can read up more about who they are. And then down the bottom, it tells you, um, you know, what you can do to learn more about the topic and, uh, you know, sort of guide you through. So it’s sort of is, as I said to him, this is, you know, a great tool. Like, uh, what we try and do on this show is think about the big issues

[00:02:27] Ray: hmm.

[00:02:28] Cameron: the world today.

[00:02:28] Cameron: And we try and break them down and think about them from angles that aren’t necessarily the angles that we’re being given by the mainstream media. Uh, or our governments. And this tool helps you do that. So check it out, getwingman. ai. Uh, I’ve been using it quite a lot to prepare for shows like this. Like, it’s just a quick, I’ll read a news story and I’ll go, okay, what’s the lay of the land here?

[00:02:51] Cameron: And it’ll It’ll give me a, uh, it’s another tool like ChatGPT or like Wikipedia that can enable you to get a bit of a headstart on understanding more of the context of a story and set you off in other directions of, uh, reading or research that you may want to do. I should just get it to recommend listening to our show too.

[00:03:12] Cameron: Every time, if you want to know more about this, listen to Cam and Ray.

[00:03:16] Ray: Yeah, for a flat fee, um, which is fine, he should make the tagline, uh, or should I just have it? Um, A Lazy Podcaster’s

[00:03:24] Cameron: Oh shit, I just had it. Oh, right. Oh shit, I just had

[00:03:29] Ray: that. Oh, no, if, if,

[00:03:31] Cameron: I had something for that. Hmm.

[00:03:34] Ray: if going down rabbit holes is your thing. Then Wingman is for you. Something like that. You know, work, work on

[00:03:40] Cameron: been, you’ve been in a few rabbit holes in your time. That’s why you live out in the country.

[00:03:45] Ray: I can’t, I can’t.

[00:03:49] Cameron: South Africa, right?

[00:03:50] Ray: Yes, go ahead, please. Thank God.

[00:03:53] Cameron: I’ve got a, I’m on a timeline here, like David Markham last month. I, I gotta be somewhere more important than this, which is Kung Fu training. It’s a public holiday here in Australia. It’s Australia Day today. Let’s not get into that, but um Our Kung Fu school is closed so a few of us students have decided we’re going to do our own training.

[00:04:11] Cameron: Everyone else is getting pissed and having barbecues. Uh, we’re gonna do Kung Fu training. Uh, South Africa recently brought a case of genocide against Israel, Ray.

[00:04:22] Ray: Yes.

[00:04:23] Cameron: Um, the International Court of Justice, the ICJ, aka the World Court, is where they brought it. It’s the only international court that adjudicates general disputes between nations, gives advisory options.

[00:04:41] Cameron: Uh, sorry, Advisory Opinions on International Legal Issues, one of the six organs, sexy, sexy word organs, it’s one of the six organs of the United Nations, located in The Hague,

[00:04:54] Ray: Yes.

[00:04:55] Cameron: Now, uh, a lot of people are upset. By this, uh, claim of genocide by Israel, a lot of people agree, on the other hand.

[00:05:03] Cameron: Israel, obviously, is not happy, uh, about it, but the U. S. refuses to call it genocide, and, uh, obviously that’s, uh, gonna be a big issue, trying to get the U. S. to agree that what Israel is doing is genocide. Here’s what South Africa argued. They argued that Israeli officials have voiced genocidal intent. So to prove genocide, you have to prove that it’s intentional, and they, quoting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s reference to ancient Israel’s destruction of Amalek.

[00:05:39] Cameron: Now, I don’t know if you saw this story, I don’t know how much coverage. It’s getting in the, um, mainstream media, I think there’s been a little bit, but, um, you know, there’s, uh, there’s a speech that he gave, uh, late October last year, where he says, um,

[00:06:01] Ray: Right.

[00:06:02] Cameron: In recent days, I have met with our soldiers at their bases at the assembly points in the north and in the south.

[00:06:07] Cameron: We have an amazing army, with wonderful and heroic soldiers. Jews and non Jews, secular and religious, left and right. They are all imbued with a fighting spirit. Spirit, the likes of which I have never seen, including a willingness to fight with strength and force against an enemy whose brutality and criminality are unparalleled.

[00:06:25] Cameron: They are longing to recompense the murderers for the horrific acts they perpetrated on our children, our women, our parents, and our friends. They are committed to eradicating this evil from the world for our existence and, I add, for the good of all humanity. The entire people and the leadership of the people embrace them and believe in them.

[00:06:44] Cameron: Remember what Amalek did to you, Deuteronomy 25, 17. We remember. And we fight. Now,

[00:06:52] Ray: Yeah.

[00:06:53] Cameron: knows more about, uh, the Old Testament than you, Ray. Uh, tell people about Amalek.

[00:07:00] Ray: Amalek did not play. That’s all I know. But he did not play. No. Please, please tell me about him.

[00:07:08] Cameron: Amalek, uh, it was a, it was a, it was a tribe, wasn’t a guy. Uh, the Amaleks were, uh, a tribe in the Old Testament, enemies of Israel. They, uh, basically had a war. They sort of, according to the Old Testament version of events, which of course, as everyone knows is really just political propaganda, the Amalekites harassed the Hebrews during their exodus from Egypt and attacked them near Mount Sinai, where they were defeated by Joshua and, uh, pretty much were wiped out.

[00:07:45] Cameron: So. If you look at, um, what the, uh, Old Testament says about the Amaleks, God then commands Saul to destroy the Amalekites by killing man, woman, infant, and suckling.

[00:08:05] Ray: Oh.

[00:08:06] Cameron: Uh, basically said, go in and wipe them all out.

[00:08:10] Cameron: Kill them all, even the

[00:08:11] Ray: All of them.

[00:08:12] Cameron: Yeah, all of them. It’s funny, Fox is just watching those films again. He loves them. Kids love them.

[00:08:19] Ray: Oh, yeah. Oh,

[00:08:20] Cameron: that aren’t like, oh, we were watching, uh, he was watching Bear Grylls last night and, and he had Natalie Portman on, he was taking her out hiking in Utah and they were talking about the Star Wars films and she was like, yeah, look, she was 16, I think, when she made the first one and she was like, yeah, the thing was they came out and everyone despised them, they were hated, now, 20 odd years later, everyone loves them, says, yeah, actually, they’re the good ones.

[00:08:44] Cameron: Not me, I still think they suck. But anyway, uh, so yes, destroy all of them. And so Benjamin Netanyahu referencing Amalek seems to be referencing this idea of, yeah, wiping them all out, man, women, children, and beast. Don’t leave out the beasts.

[00:09:04] Ray: No, they’re the

[00:09:05] Cameron: Um, South Africa is also claiming that Israeli soldiers have acted on that intent.

[00:09:12] Ray: Mm hmm.

[00:09:12] Cameron: Lawyers referenced videos of soldiers, quote, joyfully detonating entire apartment blocks.

[00:09:20] Ray: yes.

[00:09:20] Cameron: they claim that Israeli actions have been genocidal in nature, causing destruction, displacement, and death aimed at the destruction of Palestinian life. I think the current numbers are there’s like 25, 000, over 25, 000 People reported killed.

[00:09:36] Cameron: This is according to the UN Human Rights Commission. Nearly 25, 000 people reported killed according to the Gaza Ministry of Health. 70 percent of them women and children. Another 61, 500 at least have been injured. Several thousands more are under the rubble. Many presumed dead. And that’s That, uh, um, story is from a week ago, so it’s probably worse than that.

[00:10:02] Cameron: Now, not surprising, your, uh, United States Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken, um, is a Jew who, uh, is vehemently against this being called genocide. When he arrived in Jerusalem to show support, uh, he said, I come before you as a Jew. Not as the American Secretary of State, um, but as a

[00:10:29] Ray: for neutral. Right. Yeah.

[00:10:32] Cameron: Biden declared himself a Zionist again.

[00:10:36] Ray: right.

[00:10:36] Cameron: He said, uh, I’m a Zionist. Interestingly, he also mentioned recently that Benjamin Net Netanyahu has a photo from when he and Biden met in 1973

[00:10:51] Ray: Right.

[00:10:52] Cameron: Biden had scrawled on the photo. Bebe, I love, but don’t agree with a damn thing you have to say.

[00:11:00] Ray: Damn.

[00:11:01] Cameron: It’s about the same today, Biden announced to the audience.

[00:11:05] Ray: Yes.

[00:11:06] Cameron: As I said after the 7th of October attack, my commitment to the safety of the Jewish people and the security of Israel, its right to exist as an independent Jewish state is unshakeable.

[00:11:17] Cameron: You don’t have to be a Jew to be a Zionist. I am a Zionist. Were there no Israel, there would not be a Jew in the world who was safe. Now, That’s a little bit of a paraphrase or re re re framing of what he said in the 80s. We’re also going to discuss the Ironclad Commitment initiative I’ll say. So I’m going to play this clip here.

[00:11:37] Cameron: Can you, uh, can you hear that, Ray?

[00:11:40] Ray: I heard something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:11:42] Cameron: This is a clip, uh, from Biden. First of all, there’s a recent clip of him talking. This is from October last year, him talking about Israel. And then it will cut to a clip of him in the early 80s talking about Israel. So listen to this. Say this 5, 000 times in my career, the Ironclad Commitment to the United States.

[00:11:59] Cameron: As to Israel, based on our principles, our ideas, our values, they’re the same values. And, uh, I, uh, I’ve often said, Mr. President, it’s very, uh, words. If there were not an Israel, we’d have to invent one. Um, and I don’t It is the best 3 billion investment we make. Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region.

[00:12:31] Cameron: See?

[00:12:32] Ray: Interesting.

[00:12:33] Cameron: Yeah, that’s him from the early 80s. There’s another bit here. The United States would have to go out and invent an Israel. But the framing of it, you can see, has sort of changed since he’s become president. Back then it was to protect our interests in the region. Not So the Jews can be safe, but to protect our interests in the region.

[00:12:58] Cameron: And I think that’s the important thing that we all need to remember about Israel. I think, you know, there’s, I had this conversation with my mom when she was here. Over Christmas we were talking about it. She was like, I don’t understand why the U. S. supports Israel so much. Is it because of the, the, the Jews are so powerful in America?

[00:13:15] Cameron: And I was like, well, yeah, that’s actually, there’s some merit to that. And we’ll get into that in a second. But, um, there, there is, I think the, the main reason, the principal reason why the U. S. has supported Israel since the fifties is because they realized they need an ironclad ally In that part of the world, because that’s the part of the world where most of the oil comes from, particularly back then.

[00:13:46] Cameron: This is before we had shale oil as an option. Uh, most of the oil comes from there. All of the countries that contain the oil, predominantly Muslim countries, they needed a non Muslim country that relied on the United States for its very existence

[00:14:04] Ray: Yes.

[00:14:05] Cameron: to be fully armed. able to intervene on America’s behalf in any, uh, countries in the region where they needed intervention.

[00:14:16] Cameron: That would be reliable as an ally. You know, Saddam Hussein was an ally for a while and then he wasn’t. Iran was an ally for decades and then it wasn’t. Saudi Arabia has been an ally for a long time, but their relationship with them is sort of touch and go. You know, the OPEC crisis in the early seventies obviously was an instance where, uh, you know, they weren’t exactly a reliable partner when it came to the pricing of oil.

[00:14:42] Cameron: And we’ve, we’ve talked about that on the show before and Kissinger went over and did the deal, um, to guarantee them again, sort of ironclad support militarily, funding, political cover in return for giving them a good price on, on oil, not fucking with them.

[00:15:02] Ray: I completely agree with what you’re saying. I would like to think, I would like to think that if Biden and Netanyahu were alone and no one would ever know this, I would just imagine Biden going, look, I know you got to defend yourself, but Dude, you’re killing me here. You’re, you are committing something very much like genocide, if it’s not genocide, and I’ve got to defend you for the very reasons that you just said, Cam, but I’ve just got to imagine you would be like, could you just knock it off?

[00:15:28] Ray: Can you turn it down a little bit? Um, but that’s where they’re at. So, in order to get ready for tonight, I’ve been going through, you know, accusations, counter accusations, watching drone footage or whatever. Did not enjoy that at all. Thank you very much. But it reminded me of something. Was it the 1970s? I can’t remember 1970s, 1980s when the Supreme, I think it was a Supreme Court judge.

[00:15:50] Ray: Uh, U. S. uh, Supreme Court Judge says something like, I don’t, I can’t define pornography, but I know it when I see it. That’s, for me, kind of like genocide. Yeah, you can get into all the technicalities, and who did what, and who started that, and why are you doing this, and whatever, but at the end of the day, I mean, literally, they can’t get water, they can’t get medicine, literally, the, um, the, uh, the people that are bringing things are being targeted.

[00:16:14] Ray: And like you said, there’s, there’s footage of, uh, Israeli soldiers, you know, laughing or whatever as they’re shooting up. And so whatever, forget definitions for a second, trust your eyes. This is genocide. Women, mostly women and children are dying. This is absolutely horrible. But I think Israelis only got this, they’re a one trick pony.

[00:16:33] Ray: This is all they’ve got. They can’t use their nuclear weapons, because then everybody would go fucking insane, and plus it’s in their own country. So they’re just gonna beat these people down, and, and I don’t think they even have an endgame. I don’t even, this is literally a knee jerk reaction, and they have no other options, because this is all they’ve ever done.

[00:16:50] Ray: Maybe they need to, I have no idea, but they’re a one trick pony. What do you think,

[00:16:57] Cameron: Yeah, I think you’re right. Yeah, I think you’re right. And I think, like, Netanyahu has, uh, have I ever played that clip on this show where he talked about how he knows how to control the U. S.?

[00:17:11] Ray: I’m not sure.

[00:17:13] Cameron: Uh, let me just find that.

[00:17:15] Ray: if you have, it’s been a while, since I don’t remember.

[00:17:19] Cameron: I can’t see it in my notes. I’m just Let’s see if I can dig it up. There is, uh, this was doing the rounds, uh, a few months ago. It was, uh, a conversation recorded years ago, like, I think 20 years ago, maybe, where he was sitting with some people, um, just basically saying, Oh, here we go. Um, I think I found it here.

[00:17:52] Cameron: OK, he’s speaking in Hebrew, so I will, I’ll try, I’ll just read the transcription here.

[00:18:00] Ray: Yeah.

[00:18:03] Cameron: Um, I’ll post a link to it in the notes. If you want to look it up on YouTube, it’s called What Does Netanyahu Really Think of the USA? Here’s what he says, especially today with America. I know what America is. America is a thing you can easily move. Move in the right direction. Um, so That’s basically what he said, right?

[00:18:22] Cameron: There’s a lot of clips in this thing of him talking about moving the US, but he knows how to manipulate the US. Um, oh, here’s another clip from the same thing. He says, Remember Oslo? I stopped the Oslo Accords. So, this is a guy who is, you know, very canny, very clever, in a Trumpian way. He knows how to tap into the American psyche.

[00:18:48] Cameron: Um, But it’s not just him, of course. There’s, um, there’s a lot of people in the Israel lobby in the US. There’s a great book I read years ago by John Mearsheimer, um, called The Israel Lobby. And if you want to know more about how the Israel lobby works in the US, I recommend that book. But, um, a lot of people in America, uh, are against what Israel is doing.

[00:19:15] Cameron: Um, there’s been some surveys done recently that indicate that younger Americans Uh, uh, uh, quite against it. About half of the 18 to 29 demographics say that Israel is committing genocide,

[00:19:31] Ray: Right. Ah

[00:19:35] Cameron: for registered Democrats. 49 percent of registered Democrats agree with the genocide characterization.

[00:19:43] Cameron: Um, the Republicans are far more supportive of what Israel is doing. 57 percent of Republicans said there is no genocide. Only 18 percent of Republicans agree with it, which is interesting. Let’s see how this plays out in your upcoming. Presidential election this year, which we’ll talk about a little bit later on, but Biden’s losing, you know, Biden, by the way, most unpopular president in recorded history at this point in his first term,

[00:20:13] Ray: Mm hmm.

[00:20:14] Cameron: to the polls.

[00:20:15] Cameron: And, you know, he is, actively supporting this, uh, genocide by Israel and half of his regis half of his own party, uh, believe their president is supporting Israel committing genocide. So it’s got and Republicans are for it. So the Republicans are like, you beauty Joe Biden. Of course they probably think Trump would do the same and maybe more in terms of support.

[00:20:46] Cameron: We don’t know.

[00:20:48] Ray: Yeah. Can I say something real quick? Let me just reference something that you said at the very beginning when you talked about South Africa filing that case. Supposedly the ICJ is going to make their announcement tomorrow. And you’re right, they’re accusing them of genocide violations under the Genocide Convention.

[00:21:07] Ray: And, um, and of course Israel says that’s false. It’s grossly distorted. You’re, you’re taking it all out of context. Yada, yada, yada. Watch the videos for yourself or the drone footage for yourself. But then some, and I just love this, some South African, it was either a politician or it was a media personality.

[00:21:24] Ray: I can’t remember. They wrote something like, um, let me see if I can find it here. Um, oh, it’s a, he wrote, remember when we broke ties with you, Israel, and you called us subhuman. So you called us subhuman because we wouldn’t do business with you because we find that you’re subhuman yourself. You call us subhuman, you’re acting subhuman now, and now hopefully the chickens will come home to roost.

[00:21:49] Ray: But as you know, Cam, and you’re probably going to say this in a minute, the court, the ICJ, does not have the ability to enforce its decisions. So it can scream from the rooftop all it wants, but one, it can’t enforce it, and two, as long as America in general is backing Israel, Nothing is going to happen.

[00:22:08] Cameron: Yeah, you’re right. I mean, it’s a, one of the sexy organs of the United Nations. And we know that the only body in the United Nations that can do anything is the Security Council. US has a veto on the Security Council. So it’s not going to agree to anything happening, but. You know, what I think this does, though, South Africa, by the way, Jews accusing some people of being subhuman. Yeah,

[00:22:36] Ray: on the nose. Two on the nose. Yeah. Do you really want to go there? Yeah.

[00:22:42] Cameron: it’s the same thing with the genocide thing, really? You know, you want to even get close to the line of being accused of committing genocide after what your history, uh,

[00:22:52] Ray: Did you learn anything? Yeah.

[00:22:54] Cameron: Anyway, um, and also like, I know I said this on the last time we talked about Israel, but you know, the Americans bang on and the Israeli government bangs on about their right to defend themselves and their right to exist,

[00:23:07] Ray: Right.

[00:23:08] Cameron: one talks about the Palestinians right to defend themselves or their right to exist,

[00:23:13] Ray: You have, you have to go through a, no, actually it doesn’t. I’m glad you brought that up. You have to go through a holocaust first and then the survivors of that have the right to life. No one else could just fuck right off. Uh, I don’t, I don’t want to jump too far ahead, but today there was actually some news, uh, probably when you were first getting up, um, And in brushing your teeth or whatever, there was talk, there was very serious talk on both sides of coming up with a ceasefire long enough to exchange prisoners or for Hamas to release the rest of, of the detainees, prisoners, whatever term I should be using, um, that fell apart a couple of hours later, um, but there was a look, it looks like they were going to try to try very hard for both sides to calm the fuck down, but then Hamas said, We will only agree to this if all Israeli troops leave Gaza.

[00:24:06] Ray: And of course, Benjamin Netanyahu said, Fuck that and fuck you. So that’s, so nothing’s gonna change and these people are still suffering some of the worst tragedies that humans possibly can.

[00:24:19] Cameron: And I like the, the duality here where the US refuses to call this genocide, even though there’s 25, more than 25, 000 people killed in a couple of months, uh, 70 percent women and children, but we’re happy to call China’s treatment of the Uyghur people genocide.

[00:24:40] Ray: Yes.

[00:24:41] Cameron: Uh, where the total number of dead people was, well, none, really, that we, or, that we have evidence for.

[00:24:49] Cameron: Uh, maybe some people died in an internment camp, that was the best they could come up with. But they were like, oh, well, no, it’s cultural genocide. But as long as we can throw around the G word, that’s fine. But, when it actually comes to 25, 000 people being killed, Uh, well we can’t call that genocide. No, we won’t, we, that’s, that’s just ridiculous.

[00:25:14] Cameron: You can’t even bring up the word. Uh, but, you know, fine if it’s China when there’s not people dead. By the way, here’s what the head of the Human, United Nations Human Rights Council said.

[00:25:27] Ray: right,

[00:25:29] Cameron: Um, well, here’s an article about him, anyway. In a related development, the UN’s top human rights official has defended criticism of the invasion of Gaza, saying that it is not anti Semitic to call out gross violations of international Humanitarian Law, writing in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz on Wednesday, Volker Turk, he’s an Austrian by the way, once again strongly condemned the shocking cruelty of the attack launched from Gaza by Hamas and other armed groups on October 7th.

[00:25:59] Cameron: The massacres that ensued created intense and continuing trauma across Israel, the UN Rights Chief continued, before insisting that the country’s campaign of overwhelming force has been tainted by grave breaches of international law. Rocket fire from Gaza into Israel is also continued, Mr. Turk noted, before expressing regret that some Israeli officials had tried to discredit his officers concerns by claiming that they constitute blood libel.

[00:26:27] Cameron: It is not a blood libel to deplore the failure to hold to account Israeli soldiers and armed settlers who have killed hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank since October 7th, or the prolongation of a war whose conduct has raised grave international humanitarian and human rights Law Concerns, the UN Rights Chief Stressed.

[00:26:49] Cameron: So, it’s not just South Africa that has serious issues about the way that Israel is conducting this. The head of the Human Rights Commission obviously has issues as well. So, as you said, it’s going to the ICJ. Uh, they’re gonna have a temporary ruling, not on the genocide question this week, but on possible emergency measures requested by South Africa to restrain milit uh, Israel’s actions.

[00:27:13] Cameron: But, funny thing about the ICJ.

[00:27:16] Ray: Right.

[00:27:16] Cameron: The current president of the ICJ is an American woman, Joan Donahue.

[00:27:22] Ray: Mm

[00:27:23] Cameron: In the 1980s, Donahue acted as an attorney advisor for the US in the International Court of Justice, in the case of Nicaragua versus the United States.

[00:27:34] Ray: Mm hmm.

[00:27:35] Cameron: So for the kids out there who weren’t around during the eighties.

[00:27:41] Ray: Right.

[00:27:42] Cameron: During the era of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Senior, there was a, uh, Marxist government in Nicaragua. There were, uh, there was a far right, uh, military, paramilitary operation called the Contras that were trying to fight against the Marxist government. And they were really extreme, these guys, like, you know.

[00:28:06] Cameron: Killing priests and women and children and all sorts of

[00:28:10] Ray: Oh, yeah.

[00:28:11] Cameron: Supported by the United States. Fully supported, in secret, by the United States. With the knowledge, we believe, of George Bush Senior and Ronald Reagan, although they avoided any legal repercussions for that, but When this was taken to the ICJ in 1986, um, where, you know, Nicaragua was accusing the United States of supporting the Contras.

[00:28:38] Cameron: The case was decided in favor of Nicaragua and against the United States. Awarding of reparations to Nicaragua. The court had 15 final decisions upon which it voted. The court found in its verdict that the United States was, quote, in breach of its obligations under customary international law not to use force against another state.

[00:28:58] Cameron: Not to intervene in its affairs, not to violate its sovereignty, not to interrupt peaceful maritime commerce and, which is interesting, we’ll get to that later, and in breach of its obligations under Article 14 of the Treaty of Friendship, Commerce and Navigation between the parties signed at Managua. On the 21st of January, 1956, I’ve been to Managua, not for very long, flew into Managua, then jumped on a bus and went out into the country of Nicaragua to go to a cigar, a cigar factory, farm, turned, what was that, 2011, I think, somewhere around that I went, it was fantastic.

[00:29:35] Cameron: In Statement 9, the court stated that while the US encouraged human rights violations by the Contras, by the manual entitled Psychological Operations and Guerrilla Warfare, this did not make such acts attributable to the US. Here’s the kicker. The United States refused to participate in the proceedings, arguing that the ICJ lacked jurisdiction to hear the case.

[00:29:56] Cameron: The World Court has no jurisdiction.

[00:30:01] Ray: Sorry.

[00:30:04] Cameron: Over things that happen in the world. Were we not clear on that?

[00:30:07] Ray: no, no.

[00:30:08] Cameron: S. also blocked enforcement of the judgment by the United Nations Security Council and thereby prevented Nicaragua from obtaining any compensation.

[00:30:18] Ray: Damn,

[00:30:18] Cameron: And the current president of the ICJ was on the American side of fighting that in the ICJ in the 80s.

[00:30:30] Ray: I see what you’re doing, but I think the word, the two words, actually one word for both situations, coincidence. It’s just one of those quirky things where it just happened to work out really well for us and the people that like us and back us are now in charge. You’re reading way I’m embarrassed for you.

[00:30:49] Ray: You’re reading way too much into it. You would think that when America was found guilty, we’d be like, okay, fuck it, pay him, because all we got to do is print some more fucking money. Right? Just pay him. We wouldn’t even do that. God, I love America. Proud to be an

[00:31:05] Cameron: Bush Senior say? Like, I will never apologize for America.

[00:31:09] Ray: That’s right, especially when we fuck up. Oh, can I just say something real quick? I know we’ve only got so much time, but when we were doing the, uh, creation of Israel series, you made some kind of, uh, I think example or metaphor. You said something like, Ray, it’s like me going into your house, going into the bathroom, barricading myself into the bathroom and saying, from now on, this is mine.

[00:31:30] Ray: You can’t do shit about it. And slowly, slowly, slowly, you take, you take more over more of my house. And they go, what are you complaining about? So for me, this is kind of like. If someone was to come in now and kill my entire family, just wipe everybody out, and I go in crazy, and I start going around killing people, and they try to arrest me, and I’m like, you can’t arrest me, you’ve seen what I’ve been through, right?

[00:31:49] Ray: You can’t touch me. I’ve been through something so horrible, it should excuse anything that I do for the rest of my life. How dare you, sir? You know, metaphor. Anyway, I’m

[00:32:02] Cameron: Mmhmmm moving right along ’cause I’ve only got 22 minutes left. Pakistan versus Iran.

[00:32:07] Ray: Yes!

[00:32:08] Cameron: heard there have been some tensions recently between Pakistan and Iran. Iran conducted a missile and drone attack on Western Pakistan saying that it was aiming them at the militant group. Jes al al.

[00:32:23] Ray: right?

[00:32:24] Cameron: Hard for me to say that. Uh, two children. We’re killed in the attack. This is in the Balochistan region of Pakistan. And, um, I’ll explain what that is in a second. Pakistan recalled its ambassador, blocked the Iranian envoy, and then, uh, turned around and launched attacks almost immediately on the same sort of region, the Balochistan region of Iran.

[00:32:48] Cameron: Um, saying, oh, well, we’re also attacking, um, terrorist

[00:32:52] Ray: Oh, the same fucking group. The same fucking group. Sorry, go ahead.

[00:32:58] Cameron: Um, so it’s, there’s this interesting thing going on. Now, Iran and Pakistan have had various stages of their relationship since Pakistan was created in the late 40s, but they’ve never really attacked each other’s territories before.

[00:33:13] Cameron: So this is a kind of a big deal.

[00:33:16] Ray: Yes.

[00:33:17] Cameron: Now, Iran’s justification for their attacks had something to do with this bombing in a place called Kerman in Iran, uh, on the 11th of January. There was a memorial being held for the former top commander of the Quds, uh, force in Iran, uh, Qasem Soleimani, who was killed by Donald Trump in a drone strike, um, back in 2020.

[00:33:42] Ray: Mm hmm.

[00:33:43] Cameron: He was in Iraq at the time. We did a whole fuckin story on that back in 2020, I seem to recall.

[00:33:49] Ray: Yeah.

[00:33:50] Cameron: So, Balochistan, I didn’t know much about Balochistan. Do you know much about Balochistan, Ray?

[00:33:55] Ray: You know, kind of think you’re making it up, but go ahead. No,

[00:33:59] Cameron: Uh, it’s not a country, it’s a region, it’s like, um Uh, based on where a bunch of regional people live, sort of that sits on the top of Pakistan, Iran, and a small part of Afghanistan, after the Bloc people that have lived there, you know, since fucking God was a boy. And, you know, in classic sense, classic, you know, Winston Churchillian logic, when he invented all of these countries by just drawing lines on a piece of paper, when he was half, half cut.

[00:34:32] Cameron: Um, He, uh, like, oh, fuck these people. Who cares about these people? We’ll just put them part here and part over there and part over there. Fuck them. Who cares?

[00:34:42] Ray: They all look the same to me. So how, how bad could it be?

[00:34:47] Cameron: gives a fuck what they think? The Baloch people are an Iranian ethnic group, and the largest part of the Pakistan’s four provinces is their part of Balochistan.

[00:35:01] Cameron: It’s the least populated, but the largest geographical area. And, you know, like, these people have been fucked over going back to, you know, like, the Persians, the Arabs, the British, Alexander the Great, probably, like,

[00:35:16] Ray: Probably

[00:35:16] Cameron: you know, we know when he went through there, there’s always been this region of conflict and unrest because of its strategic importance, but also, you More recently in the last hundred, hundred and fifty years because of its natural resources.

[00:35:29] Cameron: There’s a lot of gas, oil, coal, gold, copper in this region. So none of these countries that ended up with it because Churchill drew a line in the sand want to let it go or want to give these people independence. These people want independence and I’ll explain why. So there’s, like the, like the Uyghur people that I mentioned earlier, these people don’t really feel like they belong in this country.

[00:35:51] Ray: Yeah,

[00:35:52] Cameron: And they, you know, they know that there is, natural resources on their land, they’re not getting a lot of that money, they want that money because they can provide for their people. So there’s been a strong separatist movement in Balochistan for a long time. Now, um, the Baloch people, you know, didn’t get any choice in when, when the lines were drawn around their country and, you know, they’re like, well this is Pakistan now, all the Muslims in India, fuck you, you’re going to move up north.

[00:36:18] Cameron: You now got a, you know, I just watched a great Bollywood film, Patan, which, uh, covered a little bit of that. Was it Patan? I think it was Patan. Yeah.

[00:36:27] Ray: Right?

[00:36:28] Cameron: They’re like, yeah, fuck you. Or you just,

[00:36:30] Ray: Pick up and

[00:36:31] Cameron: no, it was, it was an episode of Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor Who that starts with the separation of Pakistan and people being caught on dividing lines.

[00:36:40] Cameron: Anyway,

[00:36:41] Ray: yeah. Sounds familiar.

[00:36:42] Cameron: but there was also Patan, which was about Pakistan and India fighting over Bangladesh. Anyway, another story. Um. They feel like they’ve been economically exploited, the Baloch people, neglected politically by the Pakistani government. There have been several uprisings in there during the 20th century, and each time, obviously, the Pakistani military go in and shut it down fairly brutally.

[00:37:06] Cameron: The section of Balochistan that’s in Iran has, uh, similar but separate issues. Um, the Baloch people are Sunni Islam. Those are the majority in Pakistan, but in Iran, obviously, they’re mostly Twelver Shia Islam, as we’ve covered on other episodes before. And the Sunni bloc people feel like, again, they’re sort of discriminated against, they’re marginalized, uh, there’s a level of cultural suppression.

[00:37:35] Cameron: Because yes, we all believe in the same God, and yes, we believe in the same prophet, uh, Piba, but you worship him wrong.

[00:37:43] Ray: that’s right. So we have to kill you or at least not think of you as an equal. Yeah. And can I just add real quick, just to make this a whole, whole situation that you were just talking about a lot more fun. Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Iran is working on them. So, but, but again, this is just more fighting in the region.

[00:38:00] Ray: We’re sitting, okay, this is an individual fight. The thing with the, uh, ht that’s a supposedly an individual fight, but then we’ve got what’s going on in, uh, in Israel. And so, so in some ways these. Battles are connected in some ways or not, but one day, I guess the big fear is, it just becomes a regional conflict.

[00:38:17] Ray: Everybody just, like World War I, everybody just picks sides and you just fucking go at it. And who’s gonna suffer the most? The people in the Middle East who had no control over this whatsoever.

[00:38:27] Cameron: Yeah. And they’ve been suffering through these sorts of

[00:38:29] Ray: For, exactly.

[00:38:31] Cameron: Since Alexander the Great, right? Um Now, the Afghan part of Balochistan is a lot smaller than the Pakistan and the Iranian bits, but,

[00:38:40] Ray: Mm hmm.

[00:38:41] Cameron: less turbulent, but also, you know, overshadowed mostly by all the other shit that Afghanistan has been going through forever as well.

[00:38:50] Cameron: Now, the other reason why Balochistan is strategically important is where it sits. It sits near key maritime choke points. If you bring up a map for me, Ray,

[00:39:02] Ray: Right.

[00:39:02] Cameron: can you, can you, can you do that for me,

[00:39:05] Ray: I can whip this out. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:08] Cameron: If you look at where Balochistan is on a map, um, you’ll see that it’s uh, a really sort of important part of the Gulf of Oman, I guess.

[00:39:25] Cameron: It’s,

[00:39:26] Ray: Right.

[00:39:27] Cameron: got, you got it open in front of you?

[00:39:28] Ray: Got it. Yep. Yep.

[00:39:30] Cameron: So it sits right near, you know, the, where if you come through the Gulf of Oman, you go around Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, you know, past Dubai. And then it sits on the coastline here and it’s, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of. Shipping traffic that goes through there.

[00:39:49] Cameron: It’s, um, as we’ll get to when we get to the Houthi story, if we have time. Um, and it also plays a key role in the China Pakistan Economic Corridor, the CPEC. There’s a deep sea port called Gwadar, G W A D A R. in the Pakistani part of Balochistan. It’s a pretty focal key point for the CPEC. It’s supposed to connect China with the Arabian Sea, which gives China a strategic foothold in the region.

[00:40:19] Cameron: So there’s this whole history of historical grievances, ethnic nationalism, strategic geopolitics, resource wealth, and all of this has led to like just a whole Never ending series of national and international interests conflicting there. It’s a real hotspot. So the Jayesh al Adel, which by the way translates to Army of Justice in Arabic, which is the name of my upcoming album, is a Sunni militant group.

[00:40:50] Cameron: Mostly operating in the Sistan and Balochistan province of Iran. They emerged around 2012.

[00:40:55] Ray: Mm hmm.

[00:40:56] Cameron: They came out of another group called Jundala, where the leader of Jundala was arrested and executed by Iran in 2010. And so, you know, a Sunni rebellion group against the Shia government of Iran.

[00:41:13] Ray: Mm hmm.

[00:41:15] Cameron: And, you know, they’ve sort of claimed that they’re fighting for the rights of all Sunni Muslims in Iran.

[00:41:21] Cameron: They also represent the Baloch minority in Iran. So they carry out guerrilla attacks, kidnappings, bombings against Iranian security forces, and they’re often, you know, involved in cross border activities between Iran and Pakistan. So they’ll have bases in Pakistan, which will go and attack places in Iran.

[00:41:41] Cameron: And the Iranians will say, accuse the Pakistanians of, of, uh, protecting them. And then the ones in Iran will attack Pakistan and the Pakistanians will accuse the Iranians of harboring them. Although, you know, I mean, it’s just complicated. But it’s a bit like when the U. S. allegedly found Osama Bin Laden hiding in Pakistan right next to t