The Allender Center Podcast

This week, we're re-sharing the second half of a series Rachael Clinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender recorded last year on the particulars of spiritual abuse. Throughout their conversation, you'll hear them discuss the effects that spiritual abuse has on our bodies, including dissociation and shame. Because spiritually abusive leaders rarely stop with mind control, they work to create a system in which they can control every aspect—including the bodies—of the people under their authority. Rachael and Dan also explore the long, slow movement of healing in the wake of abuse and the work of tending to small areas of growth, trusting that God is contending for us in the big areas. No matter how long it takes, how can we begin reclaiming our minds and moving back into our bodies? What are the small steps we can take on the long road to healing? As we attune to that which is beautiful and true, and to that which honors the dignity in who we were created to be, we may begin living into the hope that trauma, death, and spiritual abuse do not have to have the last word. Resources Read an article "Enigmas, Myths, and the Shame of the Strong Silent Type" by Beau Denton Read "Leading out of Healing" by Wendell Moss Read "When Shame is Deeper than Salvation" by Andrew Bauman

Last year, Rachael Clinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender dove into a series on the dynamics of spiritual abuse and forms of trauma that can emerge in situations of spiritual abuse. This week, we're sharing with you their conversation about some of the particulars of spiritual abuse including mind control, dogmatism, suspicion, and loyalty. One of the first categories you'll hear them unpack is mind control, including the implications and consequences of abusive mind control which distorts desire for attunement in order to grow suspicion and mistrust. All of these systems and categories, however, are ultimately about control—structuring power and authority in such a way that spiritually abusive leaders have total control over the minds and bodies of those in their communities. Ultimately, though, Dan and Rachael invite us back to that which spiritual abuse most fundamentally sabotages: hope. Resources: Listen to an episode of the podcast where Dan and Rachael address listener questions about spiritual abuse. Read a blog post, "Dogma, Abuse, and Embodied Theology" Read a blog post, "Tuning in to the Unseen"

Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen welcome back former podcast guest Jimmy McGee, President and CEO of The Impact Movement, to have a conversation about the final two qualities of a well-lived story: curiosity and commitment. According to Dan, Jimmy is one of the most curious people (and voracious readers) that he knows. As they talk with one another about these two qualities of a well-lived story, you'll hear how Jimmy came to be so deeply curious and his commitments to wholeness and formation and to passing on the gifts that he has been given. Resources: Read Between the Dreaming and Coming True by Robert Benson Read Living Prayer and The Echo Within by Robert Benson Read Great Negroes, Past and Present by Russell L. Adams Read How to Be a Christian Without Being Religious by Fritz Ridenour Learn more about pioneer civil rights organizer C.T. Vivian

As our hosts, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, continue to explore the qualities of a well-lived story, they invite friend of The Allender Center Danielle Castielljo to engage the topic of courage. Danielle is a writer, mother, and recent graduate of both The Seattle School's MACP graduate program and The Allender Center's Certificate in Narrative Focused Trauma Care Level I and II. Through their conversation, you'll hear many stories from Danielle's life, including her courageous journey to graduate school and the work she is called to do in the world. Resources: Listen to new and past episodes of Danielle's podcast, The Arise Podcast Read A Shining Affliction Learn more about Danielle and her work by visiting her website Listen to a podcast series on Love and Courage in a Global Pandemic Learn more about Danielle's practice, Wayfinding Therapy

"Kindness is disruptive for our good." Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen begin to explore the qualities of a well-lived story, beginning with kindness, in a conversation with their spouses Becky Allender and Rev. Michael S. Chen. They talk about how both Becky and Michael embody kindness, and throughout the episode, you'll hear how stories of both hope and heartache impact how they extend kindness to their spouses and those around them. Resources: Learn more about and apply to Virtual Story Workshop Read a blog post about "The Courage of Kindness" Read a blog post about a Story Workshop participant's experience

What draws you to a human being? This week, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen begin a new series on the podcast about what makes up the various qualities of and what it means to live a well-lived story. Our own stories are not enough to guide us into living well—we need other people, pictures of, and examples who reveal the very qualities that our stories are meant to reveal. In this episode, you'll hear Dan and Rachael discuss the characteristics of a well-lived story worth emulating and how, over the coming weeks, they'll be inviting special guests to share with us how some of these characteristics have come to be a part of their own life and story, Resources: Watch a video about Wendell Moss on the Unique Honor of Story Work with Dr. Dan Allender Listen to a podcast series about a deep dive into one of our online courses, Story Sage Listen to a podcast episode, What If I Fear My Story?

Today on the podcast, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen have a conversation with special guest Sarah Bessey, an author, writer, and self-described recovering know it all. She is the author of Jesus Feminist, Out of Sorts: Making Peace with an Evolving Faith, and Miracles and Other Reasonable Things. Throughout the episode, you'll hear more about her most recent book, her own story and engagement with trauma, and the ways in which she embodies faith, hope, and love while holding the tension of being human. Resources: Read Sarah's books: Jesus Feminist, Out of Sorts: Making Peace with an Evolving Faith, and Miracles and Other Reasonable Things Follow Sarah on Facebook and Instagram Sign up for Sarah's newsletter, Field Notes

In this brief episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen take an intentional pause from our regular rhythms on the podcast. We hope that for each of our listeners this holiday weekend holds moments of not only rest, but also reflection on our collective story as a nation. Stay tuned as we pick back up next week for a conversation with a very special guest and dive deeper into what it means to have a well-lived story throughout the summer. Resources: Explore our brand-new online course, To Be Told Learn more about Virtual Story Workshop Learn more about our Certificate in Narrative Focused Trauma Care Level I

In this episode of the podcast, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen continue to address themes and topics related to listener questions. Today, Dan and Rachael take on the question: How do I engage the relational debris of trauma? Whether you are on a healing journey yourself or are supporting a spouse, family, or friends, our hosts talk about how you can engage both the beauty and brokenness of stories of harm when you are not sure either how to receive or be a good support. Throughout their conversation, you'll also hear Rachael and Dan address the obstacles to and cost of healing from trauma and how to love well in the midst of trauma. Resources: Read "Honoring Our Embodied Trauma in the Midst of a Pandemic" by Rebekah Vickery Read "Racial Trauma: The Marks We Bear" by Wendell Moss Watch a video from The Allender Center about Obstacles to Healing

A few months ago, we sent out a call for topics or questions our listeners would like to hear our hosts, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, cover on the podcast. We were overwhelmed with gratitude at the number of responses received, and are privileged to be able to hold the vulnerable, honest questions that have been entrusted to us. Due to the volume of questions, we looked for patterns and themes in the questions. Today, Dan and Rachael take on a topic brought to us by many of our listeners: bad theology. Resources Read The Color of Compromise: The Truth About the American Church's Complicity in Racism by Jemar Tisby

Rachael Cinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender are joined by Jimmy McGee, President and CEO of The Impact Movement, and Dr. J. Derek McNeil, President of The Seattle School, to talk about the partnership between The Impact Movement and The Allender Center. The mission of The Impact Movement is "to impact spiritual leaders who impact the world, to engage college students and marketplace professionals [...] and to serve and work in cooperation with and in support of the African American church." Questions you'll hear during this conversation include: How do we proceed in the process of dealing with racial trauma and injustice with people who will help us grow, and how do we do it well with the conversations that are difficult to enter? Resources: Learn more about The Impact Movement Read The Post-Traumatic Slave Syndrome by Dr. Joy DeGruy Join The Impact Movement and members of The Allender Center for a Facebook Live event on Monday, June 15

"It matters who gets to tell the story. If it's only left to one person, one group of people, it will be a biased telling—whether intentionally or unintentionally." Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen have an honest conversation with Wendell Moss, a Teaching Staff member, and Linda Royster, a Core Facilitator, about the current and generational impact of racial trauma, and the infectious nature of white supremacy within the United States, organizations and teams such as our own, and the Church. Some difficult truths are named in this episode, and we invite you, with open hearts, to be part of this journey of learning and repentance with us. Resources: Read The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church's Complicity in Racism by Jemar Tisby Read White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide by Carol Anderson Read Stand Your Ground: Black bodies and the Justice of God by Kelly Brown Douglas Read Race: A Theological Account by J. Kameron Carter Read works by the theologian and author James Cone Read works by the theologian and author Richard Twiss

Continuing to talk about the impact of the pandemic on relationships, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen invite Dr. Steve Call into a conversation about the impact of covid-19 on marriage. We do not approach this topic lightly—we know there is much heartache and brokenness in many homes. Marriage itself is full of complexity and possibility. We hope you hear encouragement, vulnerability, and playfulness as Steve invites us to hear how tension and conflict is created, how increased exposure can lead to shame, and the beauty couples can offer one another when they remind each other what is true. Resources: Listen to a podcast series featuring Steve on Reconnection in Marriage Read Steve's book, reconnect: insights and tools for cultivating meaningful connection in your marriage

"There are broken parts in every one of us that need a good parent." Dr. Dan Allender Rachael Clinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender have a conversation with Meredith Dancause—a pastor, writer, and parenting expert—about the complexity of being a parent during a pandemic. Not only parenting young children, but how to be a good parent to ourselves. With both humor and honesty, Meredith speaks to positive discipline and grace, the unique opportunity this season affords us, and the need to pause and be curious about our children's behavior. Resources: Learn more about Meredith by visiting her website. Read a blog post "Good Enough Parenting in a Time of Crisis" by Jay Stringer

In this episode of the podcast, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen talk with Heather Stringer about her creative process of stepping into a moment in someone's story in order to create a ritual. Heather invites us to pause, gather a few items, and participate in a special ritual to account for the past few days and to ask: How do I need to move toward myself during this time? Resources: Visit Heather Stringer's website to learn more about her practice of ritual-making.

Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen invite Heather Stringer, a facilitator at The Allender Center, therapist, and ritual-maker, to begin a conversation about the importance of ritual and routine in a season of traumatic disruption. What does the loss of our previously held routines mean for each of us, and how can creating rituals become life-giving during this time? Resources: Read a blog post by Heather Stringer about tuning into our bodies. Listen to an episode of Makers and Mystics: Ritual Making and Performance Art Watch a presentation Heather gave at The Seattle School titled "Breaking Frozen Seas: How Rituals of the Body Transform Clients and Communities"

In their final conversation, Dr. Dan Allender, Diane Summers, RDN, CEDRD-S, CD, and Matt Tiemeyer, LHMC, explore ways we can heal our relationship with food and our bodies. No matter where we are in our journey with food or disordered eating, it is never too late to "turn back to kindness." Resources: Matt Tiemeyer practices at Blue Harbor Counseling Diane Summers practices at Hope Nutrition Therapy Center Follow Covid19 Eating Support on Instagram for around the clock community care meal support Read more about Elly Satter's division of responsibility in feeding.

"We are all too willing to turn over our awareness around our bodies to something outside of ourselves, whether its praise or shame of some kind." Picking up their conversation from the first episode, Dr. Dan Allender, Diane Summers,RDN, CEDRD-S, CD, and Matt Tiemeyer, LMHC, continue talking about the connection between desire, shame, and food. Not only are we at war with food, we are also at war with shame in regards to our relationship with our bodies and how we relate to the people around us. Resources: Matt Tiemeyer practices at Blue Harbor Counseling Diane Summers practices at Hope Nutrition Therapy Read more about NEDA's The Marginalized Voices Project

"Why are we at war with food?" Dr. Dan Allender hosts two guests, Matt Tiemeyer, LMHC, and Diane Summers, RDN, CEDRD-S, CD , to begin a three-part conversation about the war many of us wage against food and our bodies. In this strange space we find ourselves, food and how we nourish our bodies can become a way of gaining control, particularly for those with stories of harm. Throughout their conversation, you'll hear how Matt and Diane entered the world of eating disorder treatment, the impact of our trauma stories on our relationship with food, and the insidious influence of diet culture. Resources: Matt Tiemeyer practices at Blue Harbor Counseling Diane Summers practices at Hope Nutrition Therapy Read an interview with Matt, Diane, and their friend Kate about Redeeming Food & Body

Rachael Clinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender have a poignant conversation about making space for the tension and grief of Holy Saturday. In the protestant Christian tradition, the movement from Good Friday to Easter Sunday often bypasses Saturday—the day Jesus "spent time before the face of evil itself." How then do we engage the reality of Holy Saturday, to sit well in the space between the despair of Friday and the joy of Sunday? Resources: Read Psalm 22 Read Romans 8

We find ourselves in the midst of a collective trauma that both exposes, overwhelms, and compounds past traumas. In this new reality, as we come upon the end of the Lenten season, "how do we live as though the resurrection is more true than death?" Rachael Clinton Chen offers words of grounding and hope as she invites us into a different kind of preparation for Holy Week. Resources: Read Psalm 23 Listen to voices from the Asian American Christian Collaborative

Do I believe God is still good even in the midst of profound suffering I don't understand?" Our world continues to change in monumental ways. In this episode, Rachael Clinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender engage the implications and anxieties brought about by Covid-19, but also turn our attention to the goodness, power, and protection of God. Resources: Read Psalm 91 Veritas Virtual Forum: Coronavirus and Quarantine

In their final conversation about authority, Rachael Clinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender return to complex waters to discuss mutual submission, what good authority looks like, and what it means for us to submit to those in authority. Oftentimes words like submission are difficult to hear because they have been misused by those in positions of authority. So, how do we reclaim similar words and phrases, especially those found in scripture, that have been so often used to create chaos? Resources: Listen to the first two episodes in this series on Authority Remembering the context of Dan and Rachael's conversation, read Romans 13

What does it mean to be a Christian in a moment like this? How then, shall we live? Rachael Clinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender continue to talk about the impact of Covid-19 and the rapid ways our world continues to change, even in the few days following our first episode. Throughout their conversation you'll hear words of hope, encouragement, and some practical ways to help us connect with our bodies and engage the realities of trauma. "Can we honor that we're all in trauma, as a nation, as a family, as an individual, and can we begin to bring knowledge about trauma to our friendships and conversations?" Dr. Dan Allender Resources: Read Psalm 91 Read a blog post about Collective Trauma Listen to a conversation with Dr. Dan Allender about Trauma and the Body

In light of recent, world-altering events, Dan and Rachael sat down to check in with each other and have an honest conversation about the impact of COVID-19. A global pandemic cannot help but bring issues of trauma to the surface. Though we are not trying to resolve all that is unfolding in your own circumstances, we do want to be present and offer encouragement in the midst of these uncertain times. Resources: Love in the Time of Coronavirus by Andy Crouch Listen to a podcast episode on Scapegoating

Rachael Clinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender continue their conversation about authority, this week diving into who we're meant to trust and submit to in a healthy, biblical way that leads to our flourishing. To begin the episode, Dan reads from Romans 13, a passage often referenced in conjunction with the topic of authority. Both Rachael and Dan acknowledge they are in complex waters and that the words "submission" and "obedience" can be triggering for many listeners due to the misuse and violence done by those in positions of authority. What authority, then, are we to submit to? The phrase Paul uses implies a "quality superior," not all authority, Dan notes, but someone who bears a kind of qualitative goodness—a likeness to the goodness of God. Jesus authorizes others for the sake of addressing the brokenness in the world, extending a sense of empowerment, dignity, and call to life. People who are authorized by God typically do not have to tell others they have authority, Rachael says, as it is gained through respect, participation, service, and honor. The series will conclude next week as Dan and Rachael will address the questions: What is submission, what does it mean to interact with those in authority? Listener Resources: If you are interested in learning more about the topics mentioned in this podcast: Listen to our most recent series about Attachment and Relationships Listen to a podcast episode about Suspicion and Loyalty in Spiritual Abuse Listen to our podcast series featuring Cathy Loerzel on Complexities in Leadership

Rachael Clinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender dive into a three-part series that wrestles with complex questions about authority. In a culture that grows increasingly divisive, this is a topic not without its own divisions. Throughout this episode, you'll hear Rachael and Dan raise poignant questions and grapple with the implications of trust and mistrust of authority. The conversation opens by acknowledging we are living in a hyper-polarized world where there are deep levels of trust and mistrust in many realms. We need to be able to recognize the difference between suspicion and discernment and to know when suspicion is appropriate and when it is damaging and dismantling. How then do we find balance as we ask questions of authority so that we do not surrender blindly and accept the status quo when there is a need for change, but do not become so hardened that we only mistrust and question those in authority? Listener resources: If you are interested in learning more about the topics mentioned in this podcast: Listen to our podcast episodes on Spiritual Abuse

In this episode, Rachael and Dan continue a series about attachment; how our earliest relationships impact who we come to be. Throughout their conversation, you'll hear attributes of secure attachment, how our brains are wired for attachment, and the three categories of insecure attachment and how they affect our styles of relating.

In this episode, Rachael and Dan continue a series about attachment; how our earliest relationships impact who we come to be. Throughout their conversation you'll hear attributes of secure attachment, how our brains are wired for attachment, and the three categories of insecure attachment and how they affect our styles of relating.

Rachael Clinton Chen and Dr. Dan Allender begin a series about attachment and our individual styles of relating and how they can be, as Dan describes, a "kind of gravity" that shapes how we affect other people. We are not static beings, yet who we are and how we relate to others is deeply impacted by the beauty and brokenness of our upbringings.

Revisiting an insightful conversation between Dr. Dan Allender and Dr. Steve Call, a therapist and Affiliate Faculty member at The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, about how unaddressed hurt and shame can harm meaningful connections in marriage and practical tools to help rebuild connection where it has been lost.

Rachael Clinton Chen leads an open and honest conversation with Cathy Loerzel and Christy Bauman about what they wish other women knew about women's sexuality.

Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen are joined by guests Cathy Loerzel and Christy Bauman to have a vulnerable discussion about what women wish men knew about women's sexuality.

Podcast co-hosts Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen continue a conversation about transitions, in particular what it means to transition well. Both offer valuable insights and wisdom regarding successful transitions and highlight the importance of find

Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton share an exciting announcement about the future of The Allender Center podcast and talk about how transitions, whether chosen or unchosen, create both danger and deep opportunity.

Continuing a conversation about entering a new year, Dan and Becky Allender talk openly about their experiences with anxiety and worry and the tendency many of us have to let worry overtake our anticipation of the future.

As we enter a new year, Dan and Becky Allender address the issue of regret, and how so often our regret inhibits us from reflecting on the past.

To close this series on the Incarnation, Dan invites listeners to consider how our own giving of gifts around Christmastime is reflected in the creativity and gift of the Incarnation.

During the season of Advent, Dan begins a series about the Incarnation, what it means for Jesus to be the Word made flesh.

During the season of Advent, Dan begins a series about the Incarnation, what it means for Jesus to be the Word made flesh.

Dan continues a conversation about gratitude and repentance, and unpacks common misunderstandings about repentance through the narrative of the prodigal son.

Dan continues a conversation about gratitude and repentance, and unpacks common misunderstandings about repentance through the narrative of the prodigal son.

Dan begins a series about the connection between gratitude and repentance. Thanksgiving is not often thought of as a holiday for repentance, however, gratitude and repentance are reflections of one another.

Dan and Cathy continue their conversation about the realities and complexities of being a leader. In this episode, questions about the particularities of being a woman in leadership are posed and thoughtfully addressed.

In this episode of the podcast, Dan is joined by Cathy Loerzel, Executive Vice President of The Allender Center, to talk about the realities and complexities of being a leader. Dan believes that people who are good leaders are also reluctant leaders, a th

In this episode of The Allender Center Podcast, Dan is joined by Jay Stringer, Sam Lee, and Wendell Moss to discuss misconceptions about sex, the impact of fear and shame, and how men's sexuality is deeply connected to culture, race, and past traumas.

In this episode of The Allender Center Podcast, Dan is joined by Jay Stringer, Sam Lee, and Wendell Moss to discuss misconceptions about men's sexuality, the impact of fear and shame, and how men's sexuality is deeply connected to one's culture, rac

Dan and Wendell Moss continue their conversation about what it means to become an "anti-racist" and discuss the impact of white supremacy in unexpected places, the impact of assimilation into white evangelicalism, and policies that contribute to the d

Dan and Wendell Moss, a member of The Allender Center Teaching Staff, begin a conversation about the implications of the phrase "I am not a racist" and what it means to instead become an "anti-racist." We invite you to join us and ask: Are we will

Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton continue their conversation on planning and remembering weddings and unpack the idea that weddings reflect both death and resurrection and, much like life, great joy and deep sorrow.