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On this episode: the one small tweak that increased revenue 5X, growing an app organically, and how hiring an ASO consultant actually tanked downloads.Top Takeaways💰 Not all problems can be solved with money, so see if you can fix your own problems internally — like team communication — before paying for external help.💡 Highly relevant ASO keywords with lower search volumes are a better bet for engaging audiences earlier and seeing snowballing success.🌅 Putting a paywall early enough in the onboarding process might just supercharge revenue and growth.📰 When you don’t have an advertising budget, start with local journalists and tie press releases to key events in the year.🌳 Organic referral mechanisms — ****like screen sharing success and milestones — can be very effective while enhancing user experience.About Ania Wysocka👨‍💻 Founder of Rootd.💡 “I‘m so obsessed with the user experience, that it's important to work with others who also are obsessed with user experience.”👋 LinkedIn | TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Check out Rootd‣ B2B with Rootd‣ Rootd on Instagram‣ Connect with Ania on LinkedIn‣ Connect with Ania on TwitterEpisode Highlights[1:31] Strong roots: Ania created Rootd not as a result of surveys or user research, but in response to her own personal need.[8:31] Contract buzzkill: Working with contractors can be a challenge — alignment of values is the key.[10:13] Fundraiser tales: If you haven’t hit a wall in development, it might not yet be time to seek investment. Fixing internal processes first can pay dividends later.[12:53] Early ASnOwball: Sticking with keywords that might initially yield lower volumes can ultimately drive traffic that helps your app snowball. Ania found contracting ASO counterproductive.[17:49] Dialing in the funnel: A paywall at the beginning of the onboarding process increased Rootd’s revenue by five times — with no negative feedback.[20:55] Get their attention: Local journalists love to promote local business stories, and tying stories to specific world events can work wonders when there’s no advertising budget.[25:03] Apple Editor’s Choice: Sometimes it pays to be as persistent as possible in submissions for getting featured.[28:20] Paid marketing experimentation: Don’t pay for marketing until you’re ready to experiment.

On this episode: the trap of building for existing subscribers, incentivizing word of mouth, and why paid marketing should be an accelerant, not the foundation of your growth strategy.Top Takeaways📱 Growth comes from focusing on product retention: Build a product users really want, creating an engaged customer base and fueling the growth loop down the line.🗣️ ‌Build a viral growth loop based on word-of-mouth. A product that exceeds user expectations is the ultimate way to drive word-of-mouth — even if your app isn’t naturally social.👥 Paid advertising is an accelerant to user acquisition (UA) — not your sole UA channel. It should come after product focus and word-of-mouth virality.😀 ‌Measure and improve retention by finding your minimum engagement milestone. Look to your ICP for clues.🙅‍♂️ Talk to your users who aren't subscribers. There's a tendency to focus user research on super-users, but they won't tell you much about why others aren't subscribing.About Jesse Venticinque👨‍💻 Co-founder and chief product officer of Fitbod, a fitness app offering workouts that improve as you do.💡 “There’s a trap of listen[ing] to super successful, engaged customers as a clue for what the unsuccessful customers are missing.”👋 LinkedIn | TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Check out Fitbod‣ Work with Fitbod (Currently hiring a Core Experience Lead PM!)‣ Jesse’s product approach‣ Connect with Jesse on LinkedIn‣ Connect with Jesse on TwitterEpisode Highlights[2:07] Solving a personal problem: The business has grown largely on revenue alone, thanks to what Jesse calls a “maniacal focus on product retention” and a goal of challenging the status quo.[5:56] Catching a big break: The key to scaling was pioneering a subscription model based on AI and machine learning, as well as having the right product-market fit by tapping into a “secret hiding in plain sight.”[8:26] Money in the bank: Although they found themselves in an underdog industry, the Fitbod team crucially found investors who aligned with their mission and values.[12:06] Viral growth loop: Word of mouth is still a major growth driver for Fitbod today — especially given that Fitbod isn’t a naturally social product. They’re also considering content as another growth loop, both blog-based and user-generated.[15:40] Hooking them in: The best consumer companies have discrete, repeatable actions to create a habit loop. Reward visibility and shareability are critical components of this.[17:58] Referral science: Offering free referrals is a way to understand and measure the growth loop. This approach also offers hard data, whereas word of mouth is more challenging to measure.[20:29] Everyday workout: Driving retention requires deep analysis of the metrics, like when users are canceling before the end of subscription periods and account dormancy.[26:27] Leverage = focus: When retention is good, focusing on conversion and activation is a viable way to drive mass adoption.[28:44] Contextualizing feature requests: Once you establish your ICP, scale and own the market for that audience. Then, build for the non-ICP.[31:32] Digging into activation: Jesse explains that user research is critical to avoid focusing too much on the most engaged users at the expense of less engaged ones.[35:09] The depth of need: Before building a feature, identify a participant pattern with (at least) medium confidence. Then you can develop a hypothesis.

On the podcast we talk with Shaun about the power of community, the importance of testing your freemium strategy, and why you might not want to offer a free trial.Top Takeaways🎆 Understanding unintuitive power laws is the ticket to explaining — and benefiting from — explosive app growth.🪝 Deciding what goes behind the paywall is 90% of an app’s success — but developers typically only spend 10% of the time thinking about it.🆓 Beware the free trial, which could create negative experiences and conversion rates — and might not outperform a freemium model.🌍 Absorbing the cost of a freemium model comes down to creating an engaged, irreplaceable community, which is more likely to buy and lead to higher conversions.🫶 Don’t focus on rates and formulae at the expense of what matters: Where users are in their emotional journey and how the app fits into their lives.About Shaun Steingold👨‍💻 Founder and managing director of Momentum Labs and CEO of Healthi.💡 “I love opportunities where you have a business model that fundamentally disrupts an industry. Said another way: You and your business and products have a bigger margin than your competitors. That's been the thesis behind a lot of my career and what I've worked on.”👋 LinkedIn | TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Learn more about Momentum Labs‣ Check out the Healthi app‣ Look into iNavX, the “Google Maps for the Water”‣ Connect with Shaun on LinkedInEpisode Highlights[1:45] From HP to SVB to apps: App developers have access to a free global scale and distribution network that only a privileged few corporations had in the past — harking back to when Eric Crowley said the App Store was the biggest marketplace in human history. Mobile apps that replace tangible products continually win out thanks to convenience for consumers.[5:05] Proto-cyborgs: Apps have the power to augment physical activities — from fitness to physical hobbies — in a world where we still haven’t yet reached “peak app.”[6:57] Gaining momentum: ****Shaun realized that the App Store ranking moat meant buying was better than building. Riding the first wave of app-buying firms, Momentum Labs chose top apps at rank three or lower where growth potential is exponential compared to those with the top spot.[10:13] Buffett wisdom: “Great businesses for fair prices” seems like a good maxim. But right now, the market seems to be crazy prices for fair businesses because it’s not accounting for the unintuitive: that power laws still prevail, and people need to get wise to them.[14:53] Featherlight ASO: Momentum has a very light hand on the tiller when it comes to ASO — they frontload most of the work and then (almost) don’t touch it. Performance consistency and longevity matter more.[19:00] Never take our freemium: The initial backlash against subscription models needs to give way to understanding that software is a living, breathing thing. Freemium is about trying before you buy, and hooking with additional features — working out what these features are is 90% of an app’s strategy for success.[23:51] Trialing the free trial: Shaun’s never used free trials with his apps, because he’s found that they can create negative engagement — reflected in lower conversion rates.[28:34] Boundless, joyful experience: The key to not having a free trial is the freemium strategy. Freemium models done well entice without moments of pause or negative experiences — ultimately encouraging users to upgrade for more features and additional value.[35:32] Community values: The best business asset — for app lifecycles and moats — is community. Building engagement improves conversion. The strategy for Healthi highlights how additional value generates revenue and helps grow apps to full potential.[39:38] It’s a kind of magic: It’s easy to get caught up in rates and formulae at the expense of what really matters, which is how a product fits into someone’s life and emotional journey.

On the podcast, Ariel dives into the fundamentals of ASO and how to research and optimize keywords. He also explains why ratings matter much more than reviews, and why you should never, ever duplicate keywords.Top Takeaways:🔍 It’s not that it’s hard to get discovered with ASO — it’s that it’s hard to get discovered without doing enough ASO. Expect to spend more time exploring on the front-end, but this isn’t a “set it and forget it” strategy. ⭐ Make sure that you're optimizing for ratings: they are more impactful for discoverability than download numbers alone. 📛 When choosing an app name, make sure you put the most important keywords as early as possible. 📊 Don’t rely on intuition for your ASO strategy — always look at the data.🔑 Spend as much time using the keywords as you do on finding them — beyond just in your text meta.About Ariel Michaeli👨‍💻 Founder and CEO of Appfigures.💡 “If you only trust intuition, you probably won't see results.”👋 LinkedInLinks & Resources‣ Check out Appfigures‣ Appfigures’s Advanced ASO Secrets Guide‣ Join Appfigures (they’re hiring!)‣ Connect with Ariel on LinkedIn‣ Which Keywords are Your Competitors Targeting?Episode Highlights[1:48] The A to Z of ASO: Should I care? they ask. Usually, it’s because they don’t know what ASO is. But it’s harder and harder to get found in the App Store, so you can’t deny the benefits.[4:09] Black box optimization: ASO impacts both conversion and discovery, so how do you blend the two? Ariel suggests you forget about the algorithm, and focus on the people instead.[5:52] ASO vs. SEO: So what is the difference? It’s hard to explain briefly. But you have much less control over ASO than SEO — it’s about limitations. [9:16] Great expectations: It’s not hard to get discovered with ASO — it’s hard to get discovered without enough ASO. Understanding your app and core competitors is the foundation of changing how much impact your app makes.[12:46] Artificial boosting: Why should older apps get more traction? The good news for new apps is that Apple has now leveled the playing field.[18:10] ASO key factors: App name, subtitle and keywords all affect ASO. Get relevant, important keywords in as early as possible because that’s where the value is, says Ariel. Plus: Some live keyword help.[27:24] Capture their attention: People have to understand what they’re looking at before they download an app. With apps for everything now, how do you stand out? Screenshots and video previews are the answer.[31:35] Rate beats review: Apps with more ratings beat those with more downloads. Ratings feel more organic to users, so Apple — and its algorithm — factors this in.[35:35] The ultimate sin: Keyword duplication is the biggest no-no. But other common ASO mistakes include ignoring popularity scores, trusting your instincts, and failing to utilize app names for keywords. (Cleaner isn’t always better where it really matters: downloads.)[39:12] Competitive focus: With some niches, like games, up to two keywords matter. Category rookies and those in highly competitive environments should be focused. Those with more ratings and downloads should angle for other keyword combos.[43:59] Do your research: You need to look at the data to see what keywords really matter for your app. It helps to check competitor reviews.[49:32] Paid marketing: Number of ratings, especially on Google Play, really matters. When people don’t download, it signals no one wants it. Expect Apple to follow suit. [51:08] Secondary ASO localizations: Apple uses English localization for keywords, but — in the U.S. — Spanish too. Use both, and you’ve got twice the keywords. Russia and other countries are on the way too, which means you can duplicate between sets (even if not within them).

On the podcast, we talk with Alice Muir about how best to onboard premium users, what lifecycle optimization looks like both tactically and strategically, and how to spot users before they churn. She shares insight into why focusing on CRMs for win-back strategies is only part of the story, and the best campaigns to entice users to stick with their subscriptions.Top Takeaways:📧 Email is good for two things: drip campaigns — offering a staggered, increasing discount to entice signups — and long-form content to keep premium users engaged.📲 Consider using in-app messaging as proxy testing for paywalls if you don’t have access to A/B testing tools or are working with different regional pricing.🎁 Using CRM for quick win-backs is a band-aid for churn — instead, you need to consistently add value to people’s lives.🤔 Tap into human psychology and increase retention by reminding people of what they’re going to lose by unsubscribing.💸 Balance discounts with the need to entice more high-intent users back into the app, because at some point discounts mean you’re losing money.About Alice Muir👨‍💻 She’s the Senior Growth Consultant at Phiture.💡“In my experience, the low-hanging fruit is the strategy and strategic lifecycle targeting, because you would be surprised at how many apps … have absolutely nothing in place for people that have started a trial or are already subscribers.”👋 LinkedInLinks & Resources‣ Check out Phiture‣ Phiture’s Subscription Stack‣ Connect with Alice on LinkedIn to guest write for Phiture‣ The 4 Foundational Frameworks of Consumer SaaS — Robbie Kellman Baxter, Peninsula StrategiesFollow us on Twitter ‣ David Barnard ‣ Jacob Eiting ‣ RevenueCat ‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:09] Top app learnings: Alice has worked with — and learned from — a number of subscription apps.[3:17] Subscription onboarding strategy: Many top apps in the App Store don’t have a strategy focusing on those already subscribed or who’ve started a trial. Sometimes a simple message is all that’s needed.[7:36] Feature highlight: Premium experience onboarding must emphasize additional features — not just what the free experience offers. Asking users what they like best in each experience never hurts.[9:59] Channel blending: Email is great for drip campaigns — offering a staggered increased discount — as well as long-form content to keep premium users engaged. Push has limitations however, so it’s better to use for win-back scenarios.[12:54] In-app messaging: Using full-screen in-app messages that look like native paywalls can be used as a proxy for testing the latter, Alice explains — with caveats.[19:25] Next-step growth: For big apps with a lot of data, correlation analysis is a huge area of opportunity. The same can’t be said for startup apps, which lack this data. But what does it look like?[24:50] From correlation to causation: Alice explains her strategy for driving value from correlation and funnel analysis for drop-offs.[27:10] Churn prevention strategy: A holistic approach to long-term success harmonizes with Robbie Kellman Baxter’s view. A cost-of-living crisis is causing people to scrutinize their costs like never before, so apps need continual content for real added value.[32:05] Spotting the churn: Alice suggests segmenting already-disengaged users, dissecting the reason, and re-onboarding them if necessary.[37:19] Winning win-back campaigns: Reminding people of lost benefits, creating a sense of urgency, celebrating membership, and implementing screenshot capture functionality for premium features are all possible tactics for reinforcing the value proposition.[39:32] Making discounts work: Discounts can seem attractive, but might encourage long-term loss — the key is to balance discounts with attracting high-intent app users. Reminding people what’s coming can be highly effective.

On the podcast we talk with Jason about some of Strava’s big growth wins, the importance of feature education, and whether or not all product teams should actually be growth teams.Top Takeaways🛠 The shift in mindset that comes with "growth engineering" — it's about a greater focus on the user and a willingness to go a little faster than usual...🌀 While chaos in an app business may be unavoidable, the secret is learning to embrace "managed chaos"🔬 How the key to growth is testing — and creating a safe space where it's possible to test every idea👩‍🏫 Why having employees who use the app every day is both a blessing and a curse (hint: it's connected to the new user experience and feature education)About Jason van der Merwe👨‍💻 Director of Growth Engineering at Strava💡 “Make it easy enough to test any and every idea.”👋 LinkedIn | TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Check out Strava‣ Work with Strava‣ Check out Jason’s site and musings on growth and more Follow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:58] Growing as an engineer: Jason explains what the role of a growth engineer entails — most importantly, thinking like a product manager.[4:10] If it’s not on Strava, it didn’t happen: Growth by word-of-mouth is the holy grail. How Strava grew before Jason joined looked different to how it grew once he joined.[10:31] Flying blind: The board said that top companies have growth teams and to make it happen. Jason’s team had no idea what they were doing at first — it all started with tinkering and analyzing the metrics.[16:26] From 0 to 100: Jason talks about how Strava’s growth team grew from nothing into five multidisciplinary teams with 70 people.[20:37] Conflicts and scaling: Smaller meetings are more successful, but can be a challenge for creating a more overarching narrative.[26:26] Core values: Strava has different teams focusing on different values, but all teams are platforms.[28:13] Feature education: Developers can miss fundamentals — Jason explains how Strava factors this into development. Perfect observability remains a problem, but Jason says it’s important to move forward and make decisions in spite of that.[31:31] Test churning: Because he was close to the problem, Jason could test nonstop. But now his role has changed, he needs to trust his teams and help them do their jobs well — illustrating the importance of engineers thinking like product managers.[34:39] Stay focused: When debate about what to do becomes time-consuming and you’re not moving fast, you know it’s time to test more. Metrics like measured (not modeled) outcomes are key at Strava.[40:09] Black box: No app developer has control of the App Store. App store optimization (ASO) might ease the pressure, but at the expense of the novelty effect. The best advice? Don’t depend on it.[45:30] The power of copy: Visual design can be distracting for users, as well as powerful. But copy — no matter where it is — always has a huge impact.

On the podcast I talk with Ryan about the TikTokification of video ads, how partnerships help increase the value of premium subscription tiers, and why you should be thinking about retention, not just downloads, when working with influencers.Top Takeaways🗣️ User acquisition can be more challenging for apps with niche audiences, which is why you should focus on channels where you can target by interest and search.🎯 SEO feeds the retargeting funnel more than it drives direct conversions — but keyword data is valuable for product positioning.🤗 Influencer marketing is extremely effective across the whole marketing funnel — from acquisition to retention — helping to build trust and authenticity.🦾 Marketing automation is essential for educating users how the product will improve their life once they've gotten into it — especially for more complex products.🖥️ Apps make more money from web subscriptions, so retarget users to drive them to sign up on the web rather than mobile.About Ryan Watson👨‍💻 Director of Growth Marketing at onX💡 “Our motto is: ‘We want to awaken the adventurer in everyone.’ It’s very focused on the experience that they're having, and not just how the tool operates.”👋 LinkedIn | TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Work at onX‣ onX on LinkedIn‣ onX on Twitter‣ onX on YouTubeFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:47] Hunting origins: Ryan takes listeners through the background of onXmaps, Inc., the market-dominating subscription app you might not have heard of if you’re not a hunter.[7:03] Find the product fit: If you’re looking to build a business, look at underserved niches.[13:34] Easy and hard: Narrow niches come with their own challenges.[18:00] Channel selection: Targeting via interest is crucial to marketing to a niche audience.[19:34] SEOperation: SEO does convert, but more importantly feeds the retargeting funnel.[21:18] Secret channels: Ryan shares some of the more successful channels that might not be considered at first.[22:41] TikTokification: Short form video is on the rise — how do you leverage that “escape-style content”? There’s still a market for long form podcasting too.[27:08] Influencer culture: Working with a large number of the right influencers is important for authenticity, but sometimes in-house video works better. What’s crucial is a constant flow of video.[29:17] Retention: People don’t think about retention as much as they should, Ryan says. Ads can actually be a retention strategy.[31:39] Howdy, partner: Elite members get special deals. For onX, it’s about “provid[ing] true value of what matters to your audience,” Ryan explains.[36:23] End-to-end: It’s all about figuring out your creative door-opener for getting people interested in your product.[40:03] Personnel balance: Having a strong in-house creative team versus hiring from outside is a personal preference, and depends on the product.[40:44] MMP: Ryan talks all things experimentation on ATT, SKAdNetwork, organic lift, and directing traffic between the web and the app stores.[45:13] Bundling: onX believes in specific concept-based apps for specific users. Sometimes there’s cross-conversion.

On the podcast I talk with Sylvain about the top subscription app insights you should be thinking about, how important cohorting is when looking at growth metrics, and why good advice can turn bad if you apply it at the wrong stage.Top Takeaways💎 In an early stage, engagement is more important than growth💎 When looking at retention for your subscription apps, segment your users based on their subscription status💎 Launching only a monthly plan first can help you improve the product💎 Gifting is a great way to increase the spend ceiling💎 You need to ask for the annual upgrade beyond sign upAbout Sylvain Gauchet👨‍💻 Director of Revenue Strategy at Babbel and founder of Growth Gems💡 “Whether your onboarding is going to be short — because you get people to experience the background removal — or it's long because you need to sell them on the idea, it's still about convincing them. It’s for you to figure out what’s the best way to convince them.”👋 LinkedIn | TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Learn a language at Babbel‣ Sign up for the Growth Gems newsletter‣ Gabor-Granger Pricing Model Explanation and Survey Template‣ Check out Gabor-Granger on YouTube‣ How To Price Your Product: A Guide To The Van Westendorp Pricing Model‣ Check out Van Westendorp on YouTubeFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:11] The curator: On top of working a full-time job, content consumer extraordinaire Sylvain “mines” the best growth insights to share in a biweekly newsletter.[3:13] Top Gems: Strategy[3:17] Get out and explore: Andy Carvell, co-founder at Phiture, preaches big swings for big results in place of sophisticated measuring and A/B testing. The stage you’re in shapes the tactics you use.[7:05] Clash of priorities: On top of revenue, the CAC/LTV ratio considers health and growth instead of one or the other, says Michael Berliner, former principal product manager at MasterClass.[13:02] Engage all systems: Without engagement, growth is meaningless, according to bestselling author Nir Eyal. Don’t scale until you’ve nailed engagement and know that people are willing to pay.[15:29] Avoiding extremes: Eric Seufert, analyst and strategy consultant at Heracles Media, says that if you’re blowing up, you should spend on paid acquisition much earlier than you think — even before onboarding and perfecting the product. Just don’t focus too much on a specific channel — extremes aren’t good.[20:22] Engineering success: Testing velocity is critical. Canva head of revenue and product growth David Burson knows you have to get comfortable with just enough engineering and moving fast. Growth and product engineering aren’t the same — you’re going to fail sometimes.[23:32] Ease the tension: Monetization, engagement, and virality need balance, says independent mobile growth consultant Thomas Petit. Doubling the price for double the short-term revenue sometimes works, but at what cost for long-term retention?[26:35] Top Gems: Retention[26:40] Segment, re-engage: You can’t look at everything in aggregate, Sylvain says — if you do, you won’t understand the story behind user behavior. But as Thomas Petit also highlights, segmenting on a subscription basis helps you to target appropriately through re-engagement.[29:27] Month by month: For cash flow, annual plans reign supreme. But monthly plans offer incremental improvement opportunities, says PhotoRoom co-founder and CEO Matthieu Rouif.[33:30] Winning by proxy: It’s very difficult to impact the tail end of retention. Finding earlier patterns and indicators helps you to optimize for the proxy — and provides the only way to do so, says RBI head of digital marketing Anja Obermüller.[36:41] Talking tactics: Strategy matters, but the technicalities of involuntary churn could be the key to increasing retention. Patrick Campbell, CEO of ProfitWell, advises looking at the Tactical Retention Zone as well as the Strategic Retention ends of the value spectrum.[39:35] Top Gems: Onboarding & Activation[39:40] Seeing is believing: Thomas recommends not A/B testing in the early stages — make the change directly instead. If it matters, you’ll know when you’ve made the desired impact. You don’t have to mimic mature, late-stage companies like DuoLingo that religiously A/B test everything.[42:59] Onboarding is separate: Darius Mora, formerly the CMO of Reflectly, knows how important onboarding optimization is — to the point that you should view onboarding as a separate product.[45:06] The art of persuasion: Don’t bother with a how-to tutorial, says Leon Sasson, co-founder and CTO of Rise Science. Instead, educate and convince: Demonstrate how the product affects users’ lives and why they should care.[50:14] Collateral damage: Leon also emphasizes a classic mistake with funnel optimization: Making moves in one direction hurting elsewhere — say, increasing trials negatively affecting long-term retention. Use counter-metrics to avoid these pitfalls, which don’t have

On the podcast we talk with Lexi about data.ai’s State of Mobile report, the countries subscription apps should focus on for growth, and why things still look bright for apps despite a decline in overall spend.Top Takeaways🕹️ Mobile app spend is down, but that may not be a bad thing🤳 Non-gaming apps see additional growth with resilient spend✍️ The subscription model underpins growth for non-gaming apps📈 Look to non-U.S. markets for new opportunities💝 The most successful apps will offer frictionless, personalized experiencesAbout Lexi Sydow👨‍💻 Head of Insights at data.ai, a unified data AI company that combines consumer and market data with artificial intelligence to offer insights into trends.💡 “We’ve gotten to a place where it’s become very native behavior — not just in the app store sense, but even mobile commerce. … It’s those habitual things that we do that reinforce our habits.”👋 LinkedIn | TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Get the State of Mobile 2023 report‣ Work at data.ai (remote and hiring!)Follow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:16] History report: From starting as “The Retrospective” to including more forward-thinking pieces, publishing the Annual State of Mobile report has been a decade of fun for data.ai — and a valuable resource for app developers.[4:54] More reports: Lexi outlines data.ai’s various other reports that help separate real trends from massaged data.[7:48] An evolutionary thing: Most changes to data.ai’s reports have been organic, largely thanks to a maturation of the industry, analysis, and the team’s understanding. [11:54] It’s data, it’s AI, it’s data.ai: data.ai’s sophisticated team collects data based on their own products, utilizing AI in the process. This helps them make their own accurate estimates, and they’re proud of that.[18:39] M.E.T.H.O.D.: Lexi dives into the hows of data collection in the age of privacy, including data.ai’s growing categorization of apps.[21:53] Marquee landmark year: For the first time ever, spend is down. Lexi details the data and what it tells us.[28:03] Concentrate: The top three countries for app spend have their own chart in the report. But it’s not all dominated by China, the U.S., and Japan.[30:21] GDP transformed: While China is three or four times the size of the U.S., China’s spend is only marginally greater than the latter. There’s still a lot of headroom for China to move.[39:30] Top app categories: In many categories, subscription apps take the top spot. Usually in the top 10, storage subscription app Google One jumped straight to number one in consumer spending this year.[42:36] What is a phone?: It’s becoming — if it hasn’t already become — native behavior to use phones to do everything. Meaningful personalized experiences convert to subscriptions and in-app purchases.

On the podcast we talk with Brennan about the challenge of building and growing kids apps in 2022, how to make effective decisions with minimal data, and why AppsFlyer had to build Sago Mini a custom SDK.Top Takeaways🧒 Building and growing kids apps is hard🤔 Making effective decisions with minimal data is a challenge💕 Find the right partner to invest in solving tough challenges together — especially if it’s a custom jobAbout Brennan Clark👨‍💻 Director of Product at Sago Mini, which has received more than 100 million downloads. The company offers three subscription apps for preschoolers, a recently launched show on Apple TV+, and a physical subscription box.💡 “We've staked our claim in this high-quality, interactive content — that's our competitive advantage. We invest a lot in creating the best content for kids as possible [and] making sure it's interactive. It's not passive YouTube Kids-style content.”👋 LinkedInLinks & Resources‣ Check out Sago Mini‣ Work at Sago Mini‣ Connect with Brennan at LinkedInFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:01] Building basics: When you build a kids app, you’re building both for the user (the kid) and the consumer (the parent) who pays. Building for preschoolers who can’t read yet is a challenge layered on top.[8:11] Think of the parent: Sago Mini complements its kids-first experience with a parent app to demonstrate the value of the app to parents directly. But how does it balance the two and prevent churn from each group?[12:35] The pitch: Providing the best digital tools and products for preschoolers means exploring different engaging avenues of kids learning — instead of letting them passively follow (scary) YouTube algorithms. The key is emphasizing what Brennan calls “high-quality screen time.”[16:00] What data?: Kids data management is a huge topic. Getting creative with partners might be the best solution, and Sago Mini struck gold with AppsFlyer’s custom SDK job. But it’s just as important that you (or your partners) don’t collect more data than you need.[23:11] Product testing: Product and UX design testing is a weekly thing at Sago Mini. It’s tough to put yourself in kids’ shoes, but it’s also crucial to get features right.[26:54] Paid ads: Sago Mini can’t use the IDFA or ATT prompt, and is about to lose its Google Ad ID. With additional pressure on retention, how does it work with so many constraints? (Hint: they get creative with ToFu.)[36:14] Mixing up the channels: Apple Arcade is a highly-curated safe space, perfectly aligned with Sago Mini’s value — it’s also not as crowded by preschooler content as other platforms are. But it’s the Apple TV+ show that’s really driving 80% of their revenue.[42:03] The web experience: While some kids companies build their entire funnel on the web, Sago Mini views it more as a lead-generating, ToFu strategy to get kids on the apps ASAP.[44:25] Innate ceilings: Brennan talks about one of the biggest “problems” kids app developers face, and how looking at the path holistically helps.

On the podcast we talk about RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report, all the nuance that didn’t make it into the report, and why your app landing in the bottom quartile of some metrics might not be as bad as it seems.Top Takeaways🤔 Understand your own business model and unique leverage📈 Consider the stage of your app when looking at benchmarks 🖐️ 5 key insights: conversions, renewals, retention and moreLinks & Resources‣ The report: State of Subscription Apps 2023‣ Give us your feedback‣ One year retention rate insights‣ Join the RevenueCat team‣ Follow RevenueCat on Linkedin‣ Follow RevenueCat on TwitterFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:33] The why: RevenueCat is uniquely positioned to measure the data set released in the State of Subscription Apps 2023 report. (By the way, if you don’t want your data set featured in the report, just let us know.)[7:18] The how: Anonymized data from $4 billion in tracked revenue across 22,000 apps is a lot to dig into. But it’s important to take it all in context for your own app’s situation.[13:15] The what: Be sure to understand your own business model and the unique leverage you have. Price is a factor in retention.[18:50] The flipside: Big acquisition costs and ad spend means you need to ideally be in the top quartile to get the right returns.[23:12] Drawn and quartered: Why the report uses the upper, middle, median, and lower quartiles is important.[32:43] Key results: David and Jacob go deep on each of the report’s top 5 takeaways.[40:22] Calculating value: Understanding lifetime value (LTV) isn’t easy. You have to be careful not to fall into the naive developer trap. The good news is that predictive LTV is on RevenueCat’s roadmap.[44:53] Retention: Weekly subscriptions have a 73% retention rate by week two, which drops to 3% by the end of the first year. But while monthly subscription starts lower at 64%, it comparatively only drops to 11%. Survival analysis: The longer you stay subscribed, the more likely you are to continue subscribing.[49:16] Annual vs. monthly: Why is annual better than monthly? The answer might not be so obvious. (Hint: product quality.)[55:14] The magic of subscriptions: If users are more likely to stick around the longer they stick around, minimal churn on annual subscriptions means more money (for free!) next year.[1:00:21] Trials and tribulations: What percentage of apps have a trial strategy? Perhaps surprisingly, a lot don’t have one at all[01:08:03] Trial duration: David dives into the trial-to-paid conversion rate. The results were counterintuitive.

On the podcast we talk with Osman about Duolingo’s culture of experimentation, data and testing as a moat, and why passive aggressive push notifications actually work in the right context.Top Takeaways🧪 Leverage a culture of experimentation to create a top user experience📊 Data and testing are Duolingo’s best moat👍 Passive-aggressive push notifications might work in the right contextAbout Osman Mansur👨‍💻 Product Manager (PM) at Duolingo, the global language learning app with close to 60 million active users.💪 As PM on the retention team, Osman plays a key role in maximizing user engagement and retention through specific mechanics, with a dedicated testing and experimentation regimen.💡 “Just by the sheer amount of data that we collect, we're really able to drill down and optimize a lot of things on the app. And it keeps us busy as a product team, because there's so much stuff that we know we can improve.”👋 LinkedIn | MediumLinks & Resources‣ Duolingo’s findings on notifications (Twitter thread)‣ Duolingo’s findings on streak rewards (Twitter thread) ‣ How does Duo decide what message to send? The secret is in the AI! ‣ The habit-building research behind your Duolingo streak ‣ Join the Duolingo teamFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:08] Test everything: Osman explains how the data Duolingo collects and analyzes is one of the company’s best moats.[5:26] Ideation generation: Sometimes the bottom-up approach works best for driving team roadmaps, but iteration and experimentation is at the heart of Duolingo’s testing process.[11:02] Cooperation, working together: At Duolingo, teams share what they’ve learned with each other to create a better product, but they also cross over on analysis and experimentation.[17:48] Looking back: To track long-term impact, Duolingo uses holdout experiments and looks at feature-level metrics via dashboards[25:34] Notifications 101: Osman explains how a big driver of retention and company growth has been its notification strategy, learning a lot about what does and doesn’t work along the way.[33:35] Let’s get creative: The secret to impactful retentive notifications is getting the tone right, and even conversing with users. Sterile voices don’t work — opinionated voices just might.[37:30] Keep it simple: Messaging and theme matters for notifications, and so does copy length. Reduce cognitive load to increase willingness to engage. But once you’re in the app, you can get more complex for engaged users.[40:10] Emoji titles: Osman’s team discovered that emojis are actually better in the title than in the body. Why it’s an attention grabber is still a mystery.[41:53] Falling flat: Not every experiment works, but there are still great lessons to learn. The tone of an organic character works better than a brand talking to users like marketers.[46:33] Keeping the streak going: The streak is one of the best Duolingo retention mechanics, Osman explains. He dives into how the company tinkered with it to prevent domino effect user drop offs, and how the streak widget works in iOS.

On the podcast we talk with John about the far reaching implications of the European Union’s Digital Markets Act, how app developers should be thinking about the opportunities created, and why Apple making so much money from the App Store might be bad for Apple long-term.Top Takeaways⚖️ The EC’s DMA is set to shake things up in a big way — but how isn’t completely clear🪟 Don’t panic, app developers — the DMA creates opportunities, too🤑 The profitability of the App Store might not be good for Apple in the long-termAbout John Gruber👨‍💻 John runs Daring Fireball, is host of The Talk Show podcast, and co-hosts the Dithering podcast.💡 “One of the rules in the App Store is that you cannot explain the rules of the App Store in your app.”👋 TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Mark Gurman’s article on how Apple is responding to the EU’s DMA‣ If a Third-Party App Store Falls in the Forest and No One Uses It, Does It Make a Sound?‣ Check out Daring Fireball‣ The Dithering podcast‣ The Talk ShowFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:03] Get ready: The European Commission’s 100-page Digital Markets Act is going to seriously shake things up in a major bid to regulate big tech. But what is it, what does it mean, and who does it apply to?[11:00] Keeping it cordial: Apple’s relationship with the Japan Fair Trade Commission during similar legislation was respectful. It’s not clear the same can be said of their dealings with the EU.[13:24] The ABCs of USB: Whatever your feelings on legal mandates for USB ports, at least it’s clear. Not so with the DMA, John argues.[18:14] We don’t care: John believes that the EC’s priorities aren’t aligned with developers or consumers. There are lessons from the Dutch case of dating apps with a huge 27% commission charged by Apple, as well as constraints on Netflix selling inside the app.[24:26] Payment processing vs. licensing: 30% is a very expensive payment processing fee. But Apple views it as a licensing fee — a privilege to run your software on their system.[38:07] The eye of the apple: Will Apple soften up or is it just money-grabbing? Apps have morphed as Apple didn’t realize how popular the iPhone could become, and App Store commission is a large part of its current growth.[44:37] Multiplatform allure: If Apple is seen as an untrustworthy partner with poor App Store management, developers might want to develop across different platforms and avoid relying solely on Apple — even if its exclusive apps have typically been the most successful.[51:21] What gives, Google?: Despite being allowed, there’s a mystery around why sideloading and third-party app stores never really took off with Android. (Hint: They can’t reach mass adoption.)[58:26] The two big turning points: The DMA makes clear that within the app, apps can talk about outside payments, which means Apple now has to compete with web payments. Can Apple charge its commission on sideloaded apps and/or 3rd party app stores?[1:01:08] Global continuity: Even a fully enforced DMA isn’t existential for Apple. The question of when they’re going to do right by the platform is up for debate.

On the podcast I talk with Dan about how to design experiments that answer the right questions, common A/B testing pitfalls to avoid, and how a simple checklist might just save your complex experiment.Top Takeaways🍞 Conclusions from tests sometimes go stale faster than you realize👌 Minimizing the cost of running tests will improve decision making🤪 Check your sanity — or don’t live and die by statistical significanceAbout Dan Pannasch👨‍💻 Senior Product Manager at RevenueCat💪 Dan saw what experimentation looked like across a portfolio of app businesses when his previous company TelTech’s success led to an acquisition by IAC. He joined RevenueCat in May 2022 and leads the Experiments project.💡 “You could change the color [of the buy button in A/B testing and] release it in the new application. And if you can't tell which one won [with users], then you learned that it doesn't matter. You didn't learn which one won, but you did learn that it doesn't matter for you right now.”👋 Twitter | LinkedInLinks & Resources‣ Join the RevenueCat team‣ Sub Club interview with Blinkist’s Jaycee Day‣ RevenueCat’s Experiments toolFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:18] Experimentation: What is app experimentation and why should you do it? The right decision making, considering impact on variables, and risk mitigation are everything when it comes to user experience.[9:04] Taking a page from DuoLingo’s playbook: Product strategy and intuition naturally limits possibilities — and it’s not the place for A/B testing. Microdecisions within deliverables are testable, and then it’s just cost-benefit analyses. [14:04] The early days: The cost-benefit analysis should pervade every stage of the process, from early growth and beyond. Trying to design the perfect A/B test isn’t always possible when customers are begging you for.[19:20] Paywall plays: Where you put the paywall is a tough decision. But there are strategies for implementation and risk mitigation.[24:35] Testing 101: Be sure to write down the hypothesis before testing so that you can measure impact. Unexpected results — where you learn the most about variables — depend on it.[28:05] Follow it up: Dan shares his thoughts on user follow ups to boost quantitative data with qualitative data. Sometimes talking to users can be very powerful.[31:13] Sanity check: How to do a testing plan, as done by Dan during his time as a PM at TelTech. Plus, an explanation of statistical significance.[39:53] Impact and intuition: To understand user experience impact and product intuition, it’s critical to ensure the design aligns with the value proposition.[42:22] Actual testing: There are pitfalls and screw-ups to watch out for when testing (and even before).[46:33] Analyzing the results: Dan provides his overview for analyzing the results after running the experiment. Second and third order effects are important but not always immediately obvious. [48:41] The Experiments product: RevenueCat’s new tool enables easy A/B testing for two offerings. The data helps you analyze the full subscription lifecycle to understand which variant is producing more value for your business.[55:55] Bugs: No product will ever be perfect, but Experiments offers app developers the tools and confidence to make sure it’s at least most of the way there.

On the podcast I talk with Melissa and Félix about why more apps should be more than just apps, the benefits of a hard paywall, and why a lower price might actually make you more money even if the A/B test shows it didn’t.Top Takeaways📱 More apps should be more than just apps💳 Hard paywalls can (and do) sometimes pay off💵 How a price change can lead to big returns — if the quality is thereAbout Melissa Cash & Félix Boudreau👨‍💻 Melissa is Co-Founder and CEO and Félix is Head of Growth at Pok Pok💪 Their first app, Pok Pok Playroom, is an Apple Design Award-winning preschool app that sparks creativity and imagination through open-ended play💡 “It's important to think about your updates from a content and subscription value point of view, but also from a marketing point of view, and really try to balance those narratives.” — Melissa👋 Melissa on LinkedIn | Melissa on Twitter | Félix on LinkedIn Links & Resources‣ Pok Pok Playroom‣ Watch the app trailer on YouTube‣ A mother's entrepreneurial inspiration ‣ Melissa on The Mom Halo podcast ‣ The Apple Design Award Story ‣ Melissa on the Snippets of Genius podcast Follow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:40] Empowered play: What could it look like to equip and educate today’s children to think for themselves? Melissa shares the story of how her co-founders wanted to empower creative, independent play for their young son in a digital space.[6:16] More than an app: There’s a much broader vision for Pok Pok in the works. Starting digital in a digital era gives the app a head start against business models that have been adapted to become digital.[10:47] Investing in the future: The team at Pok Pok places a “hive mind” focus on the long-term strategy of the brand. They aim to earn the trust of parents (as well as their kids) for the best possible customer experience.[13:15] You are the prototype: What did it take to build Pok Pok into an award-winning, successful app? Melissa shares about their robust testing and prototyping process.[16:57] The data tracks: Félix talks about how to balance the protection of qualitative and quantitative data while getting the most out of what you can safely track and collect. They use intrinsic motivation to keep kids playing in healthy ways — a win-win-win for everyone.[24:19] The monetization conversation: Creating an app that keeps evolving was the key to recurring revenue. Continual content with real value creation — for the parent as much as for the child — was the way forward.[27:06] Easy lessons from a hard paywall: Testing the hard paywall took a lot of tinkering — resulting in some unintended (but welcome) consequences in user behavior. Now, there’s a video paywall in the pipeline.[40:19] The price is right: Félix and Melissa discuss how to find the sweet spot with price testing that enables solid paid acquisition and LTV. Ultimately, doubling the price led to double the revenue.[46:18] The power of storytelling: Subscription app entrepreneurs should learn how to tell good stories. Melissa and Félix share their wisdom about creating compelling stories in business and networking, as well as the importance of great in-app events.

On the podcast we talk with Jaycee about how Blinkist increased trial starts by 23%, how to balance user experience with business objectives, and why telling people how to cancel can actually lead to fewer cancellations.Top Takeaways⚖️ Balancing ethics and business means making tough decisions, but taking a smart approach lets you master both🤝 Helping people unsubscribe isn’t the most intuitive thing for subscription app businesses, but ethical design patterns might be better for business in the long run🔎 Transparency around the cancellation process can drive app success in multiple waysAbout Jaycee Day👨‍💻 Senior Product Designer at developer platform GitHub and previously at Blinkist💪 Jaycee facilitated a sign-up increase of 23% following customer service complaints (which also dropped by 55%) at Blinkist. Even Apple took notice of her ethical design pattern💡 “It's because of the transparency and the trust. … People have been burned so many times through other apps that it benefited us. … [Users thought,] Finally, an app that I can trust — they know how I feel, and they're listening. That was just super important: Letting people know that they can cancel [and that] they don't have to be scared of us.”👋 Jaycee Day | LinkedIn | Twitter | Medium | GitHubLinks & Resources‣ The story of Blinkist's 23% Conversion‣ Ethical design pattern at AppleFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:47] Origin story: From founding to freelancing, Jaycee helped transform Blinkist in under three years.[3:52] Internet fame: The ethical design pattern Jaycee helped evolve offers subscription apps the ability to understand the product discovery process in a different light. She talks about its inception at Blinkist.[9:05] Zombie subscribers: The balance between business and ethics isn’t always easy to strike. Jaycee explains how customer empathy helped with product design.[11:51] The first pitch: The early stages of ethical design and the goal of reducing customer complaints initially came from trial reminder testing. The reminders had the unintended positive consequence of increasing push notifications.[16:29] The big rollout: With things on the up and up for Jaycee and her team, they built an A/B test prototype with “overwhelmingly positive” results.[20:47] You can stop complaining now: A 55% drop in customer complaints wasn’t just theory. Why did it work so well?[24:03] Mission unsubscription: It may not be the most intuitive thing for subscription apps to help people who don’t want to be subscribed to unsubscribe. But this effort brings indirect benefits like reducing cancellations and increasing trial sign-up rates.[27:21] Retain and engage: Jaycee discusses how Blinkist was limited in its tracking capacities, but it used some unconventional markers to establish that the efforts were working.[31:10] The biggest subscription app article of the year: Promoting principles via the user experience community brings more attention and business success.[33:48] The aftermath: People care about the ethics of user experience as well as the business side. Jaycee discusses the major ripple effect of the ethical design she spearheaded: Case in point, Apple features it on their website.

On the podcast we talk with Eric about the largest consumer marketplace that’s ever existed, the growing exit opportunities for Consumer Subscription Software businesses, and why the CSS industry may be relatively recession-proof.Top Takeaways👀 Simply occupying eyeballs isn’t the game plan anymore💰The CSS space could be recession-proof👴 The data and tooling landscape has matured, making it easier to build and grow subscription businessesAbout Eric Crowley👔 Partner at GP Bullhound, a global technology investment and advisory firm for entrepreneurs and founders👨‍💻 Coming from an executive software startup background, Eric primarily focuses on M&A, capital raises, and advisory transactions at the firm💡 “If the entire focus of your team is adding value and not just making sure information flows from stack one to stack two, you're going to build a better business, because you're out there listening to your customer [and] watching them use your service”👋 LinkedIn and TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Check out the Consumer Subscription Software (CSS) 2022 report‣ GP BullhoundFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:58] Mind-blowing CSS report insights: Apps are instantly downloadable and purchases are immediate for 5 billion people around the world.[5:10] What the internet was meant to be: Apple is the new cross-border cash clearing house, and apps are leveraging some of the most advanced technology we have today.[7:39] The end of apps?: There’s a reason to be bullish on the subscription business model. David explains why.[10:52] Record-breaking non-game app revenue: For the first time in 2022, people are spending more on apps other than gaming.[13:27] Having fun with luxury goods: With a downturn on the horizon, will in-app purchases take a hit? Why spend money on Candy Crush when you can still have fun for free? GP Bullhound sees CSS businesses as “enhancements at an affordable price.”[20:09] Where’s the value?: During a recession, the bar for added value increases. Where does that leave subscription services? If it makes you better at your job (like Grammarly does for Eric), it’s a winner.[21:40] On bankers hating averages: Eric talks overvaluations, undervaluations, and the sturdy infrastructure of the industry. (Hint: DuoLingo, Dropbox, and Bumble will be here in five years.)[28:22] Cashing in on subscriptions: The cash efficiency of the consumer subscription model is finally beginning to show. Eric highlights that CSS entrepreneurs are gold miners, with plenty of companies selling them shovels and pickaxes.[35:13] Exit stage right: From PE firms to small investors, opportunities to exit apps are many. Eric explains what that looks like for brands, consumers, and founders.[40:38] Philosophy of selling: Eric sets out the thought process founders go through and the questions they should answer before moving ahead with a sale.

On the podcast we talk with Andrew about the journey to cash flow positive for Elevate Labs, the importance of creative, and why spending less money can sometimes be the key to figuring out paid user acquisition.Top Takeaways📈 The journey to cash flow positive is a long one, demanding tough decisions along the way💵 Spending less money can sometimes be the key to figuring out paid user acquisition🎨 Control and collaboration are key elements of a creative cultureAbout Andrew Maguire⚙️ Chief Operating Officer at Elevate Labs and Managing Partner at Volo Ventures💪 Andrew saw Elevate move from rolling back on ad spend in order to survive, to becoming cash flow positive with record growth in 2022.💡 “How do you have values that are not just the poster on the wall that no one cares about, but are actually lived in the organization?”👋 LinkedIn and TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Join the Elevate Labs team‣ Connect with Andrew on Linkedin‣ Follow Andrew on Twitter‣ Volo Ventures ‣ Elevate App ‣ Balance App Follow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:46] Inspirational investment: Making waves at Elevate, Volo Ventures invested in RevenueCat based on Jacob’s juice for building a big company and solving real problems.[6:48] Early elevation: The duality of Volo Ventures and Elevate gives Andrew insight to create great apps while investing at the same time.[10:25] Living organizational values: An ongoing commitment to incorporate company mission into every aspect of work — from hiring to recognition and performance — is what makes a company really stand out.[13:25] Pay to play: You need to spend money to make money. Jacob and Andrew discuss getting a handle on LTV, plowing money into advertising, the subscription model, and trials.[19:20] The slow degradation of ATT: It’s not an overnight thing, but Elevate still took a hammering.[21:26] Circling the wagons: Andrew talks about the experiments they ran, what worked, and what failed, including pulling back ad spend.[24:32] The importance of creative and the power of ads: Everyone taking responsibility for the quality of the product builds a culture of creativity with ideas coming from all angles.[33:22] Blending acquisition costs: When you’re building a second app, you can leverage the customers you already have for the old one to build an even better product. And sometimes free giveaways can scale ad spend in asymmetric ways.[40:25] Becoming a “real business”: Hitting cash flow positive feels really good. Andrew found that focusing on being lean and scrappy allowed them to scale the business without having to raise more capital.[46:13] The Volo connection: Andrew, David, and Jacob discuss what’s happening at Volo Ventures.

On the podcast we talk with Adam about when and why to use an MMP, which subscription events to track in your analytics, and why A/B testing doesn’t always work the way you think it works.Top Takeaways📏 Understand what your users are doing to help define — and then achieve — your goal📈 Spreadsheets are a great start, but growing sophistication requires something more long-term🔧 Turning events into actions is difficult but necessaryAbout Adam Landis👨‍💻 Founder and CEO at AdLibertas💪 Adam has helped hundreds of apps — including Crossy Road, Temple Run and Audio Mac — influence user behavior through data collection and analysis.💡 “How do you make sense of all this data that's coming out of the app? How do you understand what users are doing? What is the impact? And then what is the outcome of the changes you make?”👋 LinkedIn | AdLibertasLinks & Resources‣ Learn more about AdLibertas‣ Read AdLibertas updates from Adam‣ Follow AdLibertas on LinkedinFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:44] The OG of apps: At the genesis of the App Store, Google and Apple fought over ads — and that’s when Adam got started. AdLibertas was born just a few years later out of the need to understand the data coming from users.[6:34] The progression of data sophistication: Brand new app developers are hungry for thousands of data points. But are those really necessary at the beginning? Adam dives into startups getting to 1.0, understanding product market fit and balancing product versus infrastructure.[9:39] View from the data stack: Adam talks about minimum viability and the importance of understanding what your users are doing before anything else.[15:27] Every app is unique, but data speaks uniformly: How do you do deep, complex analysis early? Adam offers a smart strategy on what metrics apps should track to garner the most valuable insights.[24:16] Blending freemium and subscription is an art: Getting sophisticated and buying users means understanding their long-term value and the real sources of ROI.[25:57] The essential MMP stack: Adam and David discuss the when, what and how of MMPs.[31:56] SKANing: It’s the mess that no one wants to talk about. But don’t worry: It’s okay not to understand because no one knows what’s going on.[34:36] All praise to A/B testing: When it comes to A/B tests, losing can be better than winning. Adam explains that the proper way to test is to set the boundary before the test and not look at the data during testing.[40:05] CRM campaigning: Adam and David talk about getting the most out of CRMs in terms of retention and re-engagement.[47:13] In with the old, in with the new: Do you focus more on product or marketing? It depends on how big you are.

On the podcast we talk with Emmanuel about the magic of affiliate marketing, how to best use Stripe payments, and why you should probably build a web app before you build a native one.Top Takeaways✉️ Don’t skip user registration — and do it early in onboarding💰 The road to subscription revenue isn’t a straight one📈 The little things add up over timeAbout Emmanuel Crouvisier👨‍💻 Founder at CardPointers, an app that makes it easy to optimize credit card rewards and has saved users over $200M.💪 Emmanuel used affiliate marketing and a revenue share model to increase user retention, simultaneously rewarding loyalty and content creator talent.💡 “Keep your costs really low. […] The companies that have been in this space before never last more than two years because they need a team of [up to] 30 people to run everything. Whereas [with CardPointers], it's just me, and my costs are literally hundreds of dollars per month — so it makes it easy for me to make a good business out of it.”👋 Twitter | LinkedInLinks & Resources‣ CardPointers on the App Store‣ CardPointers on Twitter‣ Special Offer for Sub Club listenersFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:42] Building inspiration: Emmanuel discusses what inspired him to found CardPointers, getting turned on to the world of credit card rewards and realizing just how much revenue subscription apps can bring.[7:21] Exhausting side hustle: Early on, CardPointers was an evenings and weekends-based project, applying smart strategies combined with persistent tinkering.[11:15] Decisions, decisions: Emmanuel explains the decision he made in the early building phase, as well as his lucky break with Apple iOS 13 and watchOS 6.[17:30] Same system, same project: Emmanuel discusses the benefits of a backwards compatible API with proper user accounts created from the get-go, reducing sign-up friction.[19:47] The affiliate backdoor: On launch, he didn’t have any partnership links set up and he wasn’t getting anywhere by going through official channels. He got better results by reaching out to people through LinkedIn. [23:26] $1,000 a month sounds cool: Though he was making progress with affiliate revenue, it’s not all easy and there are a lot of rules around compliance. This made a subscription model more attractive, and led Emmanuel to devise the pro tier for paying users.[27:22] Understanding employers: It can be nerve-wracking to quit your day job. Emmanuel talks about how he managed the transition. He lucked out because his employer was supportive, too.[31:52] Blow-up business: Emmanuel talks about how his current roadmap really shifted the trajectory of the business, including imminent plans in the pipeline.[35:23] Big-time consumer: Studying up before — and during — the startup phase is crucial for unlocking your app’s real potential. Emmanuel learned (and continues to learn) from an array of sources including webinars and Twitter communities.[42:40] Influencing the market: So many apps need to find the kind of product-channel fit CardPointers has in terms of influencer and affiliate marketing. Emmanuel explains how it took off as a channel that worked for him.

On the podcast I talk with Darrell about going from zero to an 8-figure ARR in just 18 months, building a product improvement loop combining user research and A/B testing, and why expecting failure is one of the keys to success.Top Takeaways📈 Going from 0 to an 8-figure ARR in 18 months is doable🙈 Sharing and selling data isn’t necessary to build and scale subscription apps🎰 Structuring product development as a “bet” liberates you from needing to be rightAbout Darrell Stone👨‍💻 Head of Product & Design at Citizen, the number one public safety app in the U.S.💪 Darrell defined and scaled Citizen's consumer subscription product with a dual focus on acquisition and retentive, life-saving features.💡 “Product [development] in consumer tech is very much a team sport. You have to approach it through the mindset that you're building a team that's going to win a thing.”👋 LinkedIn and TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Citizen App‣ Citizen’s Career Page Follow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:03] Leaving Uber to scale a startup: Darrell discusses the reasons why he left Uber to start a subscription app.[5:20] Making the world a safer place: Citizen is a “moderated safety app.” It has more than 100 people actively listening to police scanners to enable provide real-time information about what is happening in communities.[10:57] Charging for a public safety app: Darrell discusses the tension between monetization and Citizen’s mission of keeping people safe. He outlines the difference between the freemium and paid products.[19:15] Citizen on the world stage: Darrell talks about taking Citizen global and how the company “a safety marketplace” to the world.[22:20] World pricing: Darrell offers potential strategies for global cost and price differences.[24:52] Understanding users: Darrell gives insight into how user research shapes A/B testing, product development and the improvement loop.[30:05] Antifragile product development: One of Darrell’s go-to recommendation for people in product is Annie Duke’s interview on The Knowledge Project. Bumps are inevitable during the product development process — it’s how you manage it that matters.[33:14] Lessons learned for top unlocks: Darrell discusses tips for being more right than wrong to unlock a real value-add, and how this took the company from zero to eight figures in ARR.[37:45] Buy versus build: David and Darrell talk about how bringing on third party tooling can help achieve long-term company goals.[41:45] Aligning the team to the bigger vision: Darrell explains how clear goals, rapid feedback loops and celebrating incremental progress help keep teams motivated through the whole process.

On the podcast we talk with Phil about the thesis behind Tinder’s monetization strategy, the importance of product differentiation, and why some companies shouldn’t use subscriptions.Our guest today is Phil Schwarz, Partner at Corazon Capital, a leading Chicago-based venture fund investing in early stage tech companies. Prior to joining Corazon, Phil served as the Chief Marketing Officer at Tinder during the rollout of subscriptions. He was also previously Head of Growth Initiatives at Match Group.In this episode, you’ll learn:3 key innovations that propelled Tinder’s growthTips for optimizing your paywall strategyHow Tinder transitioned to a subscription-based modelLinks & ResourcesCorazon’s websiteFollow Corazon on TwitterCorazon’s LinkedIn pageContact CorazonPhil’s LinksPhil’s LinkedIn pageFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Gessica about how to think about brand marketing for apps, finding product/channel/messaging fit, and why you shouldn’t even refer to Bill Gates in an ad campaign.Our guest today is Gessica Bicego, Chief Marketing Officer at Paired, the #1 app for couples. Prior to joining Paired, Gessica spent 6 years leading performance marketing and growth at Blinkist.In this episode, you’ll learn:How to build a moat around your brandPaired’s growth stack & favorite data collection toolsTips for allocating ad spending & measuring advertising campaignsWhy Bill Gates sent Gessica a cease and desist letterLinks & ResourcesAlbertTaboolaRuntasticFivetranAmplitudeRevenueCatSnowflakeLookerPhiture’s Mobile Growth Nightmares podcastSub Club Podcast episode 39: 8 Principles for Sustainable Growth — Sean Ellis & Ethan Garr, Breakout GrowthGessica’s LinksGet PairedCurrent job openings at PairedFollow Paired on InstagramFollow Gessica on TwitterGessica is on InstagramGessica’s LinkedIn pageFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Giancarlo about soft vs. hard paywalls, how to think about product experiments, and why removing friction from onboarding didn’t actually help.Our guest today is Giancarlo Musetti, Growth Product Manager at Ad Hoc Labs. Ad Hoc Labs makes several apps including Firewall and Dialed, but is most well known for Burner, an app that allows you to create multiple phone numbers to protect your privacy and better manage communication.In this episode, you’ll learn:How to make a smooth transition to a subscription-based modelTips for optimizing your paywallHow to boost your app’s growth and user baseGiancarlo’s three-step process for testing new strategies and featuresGiancarlo’s LinksAd Hoc Labs’ websiteBurner appFirewall appDialed appAd Hoc Labs’ hiring pageGiancarlo’s LinkedIn pageFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Darrell and Jake about optimizing your app’s paywall, how to increase revenue by giving users a better experience, tips for pricing your app, and how to reduce subscriber churn.We’re with Darrell Stone and Jake Mor in front of a live audience at the App Promotion Summit in New York City. The App Promotion Summit is America’s leading app marketing conference. Darrell is the Head of Product & Design at Citizen, the number one public safety app in the U.S. Jake is the Founder & CEO of Superwall, the best way to build in test paywalls without having to update your app.In this episode, you’ll learn:Where to put your app’s paywallWhich features should you paywall?When to paywall all of your app’s featuresA clever way to win back users who cancel their subscriptionLinks & ResourcesRevenueCatPrevious webinar with Jake on YouTubeJake Mor’s LinksFollow Jake on TwitterSuperwall’s websiteFollow Superwall on TwitterDarrell Stone’s LinksFollow Darrell on TwitterCitizen’s websiteFollow Citizen on TwitterFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Mark and Jeff about community led growth, how they improved trial starts by 25%, and why running ads for a blog post might actually perform better than sending people directly to the App Store.Mark is an RRCA Certified Distance Running Coach and created None to Run as a blog and personal outlet to stay in touch with his passion for exercise science and healthy living. Jeff has been developing iOS apps since 2009 and teamed up with Mark to build an app as the None to Run community started to take off and requests for an app could no longer be ignored.In this episode, you’ll learn:How to build momentum for your appDon’t launch your app until you’ve done thisTips for growing your audienceHow None to Run reached an 80% conversion rateLinks & ResourcesMighty NetworksSub Club podcast episode 35: From Indie Side Project to $1M in ARR — Curtis Herbert, SlopesAriel from AppfiguresLisa JhungJeff & Mark’s LinksNone to Run’s websiteFollow None to Run on TwitterGet the None to Run appJoin None to Run’s communityCheck out Jeff's fitness app, IntervalsFollow Jeff on TwitterFollow Mark on TwitterContact MarkFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast I talk with Sean and Ethan about the importance of a north star metric, optimizing for speed to value, and why product/market fit needs to be dialed in over time.Sean has worked on growth at some of the fastest growing companies in the world, like Dropbox, Lookout, and Eventbrite. He not only coined the term “growth hacking”, but literally wrote the book on it. Today, Sean helps companies around the globe accelerate customer and revenue growth through workshops, keynote presentations, and select advising roles.Ethan got his start in subscription apps working on product at TelTech, which was acquired by IAC in 2018. He co-invented and led the company's flagship app, RoboKiller and helped to grow TelTech's other top communications apps including TrapCall and TapeACall. Ethan now helps companies improve their growth trajectories through workshops, coaching, and as a trusted advisor.In this episode, you’ll learn:Sean & Ethan’s proven principles for achieving sustainable growth Tips for dialing in your product/market fitWhat metrics you should track for your subscription appHow to create a better onboarding experience for your usersSean & Ethan’s LinksBreakout Growth’s websiteCheck out The Breakout Growth PodcastDownload the Principles of Sustainable Growth PDFSean Ellis: Hacking Growth: How Today's Fastest-Growing Companies Drive Breakout SuccessFollow Ethan on TwitterEthan’s LinkedIn pageSean’s websiteFollow Sean on TwitterSean’s LinkedIn pageFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Mike about building a principled, mission driven app, keeping product development focused on the right customers, and how ClassDojo scaled to tens of millions of downloads without a marketing budget.Our guest today is Mike Overell, Revenue Lead at ClassDojo. Having founded his own company as well as working at McKinsey and Lyft, Mike is now using that experience to help every kid on earth get an education they love with ClassDojo. Mike also invests in and helps foreign founders crack the US as co-founder of investment collective Antipodes.In this episode, you’ll learn:How ClassDojo reached 50M users with zero marketing spendTips for setting up the right paywall for your appHow to monetize your app without impeding growthClassDojo’s user-led growth strategyMike Overell’s LinksFollow Mike on TwitterClassDojo’s websiteFollow ClassDojo on TwitterClassDojo’s jobs pageMike’s LinkedIn pageFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Cliff about the benefits of building for a niche, the one ad that changed things for Speechify, and why Cliff is now hiring comedians.Our guest today is Cliff Weitzman, the founder and CEO of Speechify. As someone with dyslexia, Cliff built Speechify to help himself learn by having text read aloud. Cliff went on to blitzscale Speechify with an irreverent approach to SaaS norms and a willingness to experiment.In this episode, you’ll learn:How Cliff found early traction for SpeechifyUnconventional ways to build a great teamHow Cliff got marketing tips from the top e-commerce CEOsThe art of successful cold callsCliff Weitzman’s LinksSpeechify’s websiteSpeechify for iOSSpeechify Chrome extensionSpeechify on Google PlayFollow Speechify on TwitterFollow Speechify on InstagramSpeechify is on MediumCheck out Speechify on YouTubeSpeechify’s LinkedIn pageCliff Weitzman: Read to You on SpotifyFollow Cliff on InstagramContact CliffFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Eric about the importance of refining your pitch, how to build a moat in consumer SaaS, and why your month one churn might not be as bad as you think.Our guest today is Eric Stromberg, the Founder & Managing Partner of Bedrock, a technology investment firm currently managing approximately one billion dollars. The firm has made investments in companies like Flock Safety, Plaid, Cameo, The Athletic, and more. Eric is also the Founder of Check, the payroll infrastructure API and Universe Software, the holding company for Vertical Fintech businesses.In this episode, you’ll learn:Why higher churn rates at launch are OKHow to maintain a competitive advantage for your subscription appWhy Eric is bullish about the future of Consumer SaaSLinks & ResourcesBarry McCarthySub Club podcast episode 031: Growth, Revenue, and Marketing Strategies for Your App — Lisa Kennelly, FishbrainEquilabEric Stromberg’s LinksEric's websiteFollow Eric on TwitterBedrockCheck payroll optimizationUniverse SoftwareScreenshot EssaysFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Curtis about his 9 year journey to reach $1M in ARR, why he shares revenue numbers publicly, and how taking inspiration from web businesses instead of other apps kept him ahead of the curve.Our guest today is Curtis Herbert, an independent iOS app developer/designer/wearer of many hats. Curtis is the founder of Slopes, the app for skiing and snowboarding, and he took it from an indie side project to a thriving business.In this episode, you’ll learn:Marketing tips for consistent growthHow Curtis transitioned Slopes to a subscription modelWhich tools and strategies had the biggest impact on Slopes’ successThe tradeoffs of hiring employees as an indie developerLinks & ResourcesTableauVeroFirebaseCurtis Herbert’s LinksSlopes appFollow Curtis on TwitterCurtis’ websiteFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Michael about operating a portfolio of almost 40 apps, the importance of delivering value to customers, and why you should never use teal on your paywall.Joining me today is Michael Ritter, CEO and Founder at Maple Media. Michael and his growing team acquire and operate category-leading consumer apps. Popular Maple Media apps include: Pic Stitch, Weather Hi-Def Radar, Dialog, We Heart It, Player FM, WeekCal, and many more.In this episode, you’ll learn:Why customer support is crucial for subscription appsHow to price your subscription based on the value it providesTips for integrating ads into your subscription revenue modelHow to 10X your money on an app acquisitionMichael Ritter’s LinksMichael’s LinkedIn pageMaple MediaFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On today’s podcast we’re hosting the Subscription Trends 2022 event. We talk with Thomas and Eric about navigating content fortresses as a developer. They share their thoughts on regulating Apple’s App Store, affiliate marketing, and breakout trends for 2022. We also talk about Web3 and Crypto, and answer questions from folks in the event’s chat room.Our guests on the show are Thomas Petit and Eric Seufert. Eric has a depth and breadth of experience with mobile apps and games that few can match. Over the past year, Eric has written extensively about App Tracking Transparency and the future of mobile advertising on his trade blog, Mobile Dev Memo.Thomas Petit is a world-renowned mobile growth expert independent consultant. Thomas began his work in the subscription app space, eventually becoming a freelance consultant, and has worked with several large subscription apps.In this episode, you’ll learn:How to make a living as a solo app developerAre web apps the future of app development?Are you price-testing your app too soon?How to reduce churn for trial and paid usersNew regulatory burdens app developers are facingLinks & ResourcesThe Sub Club Podcast: Growth, Revenue, and Marketing Strategies for Your App — Lisa Kennelly, FishbrainThe Sub Club Podcast websiteThomas Petit’s LinksFollow Thomas on TwitterThomas’ guest post on the RevenueCat blog: Mobile Subscription Predictions for 2022Eric Seufert’s LinksFollow Eric on TwitterEric Seufert’s post: 2022 predictions for mobile marketingMobile Dev MemoFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Colette about selling MileIQ to Microsoft then buying it back, experimenting with an unlimited marketing budget, and unlocking higher retention with a focus on prosumers.Our guest today is Colette Nataf, Head of Growth at MileIQ and Co-Founder of Lightning AI. From founding multiple startups to spending more than $100M on marketing in growth roles at several great companies, Colette has spent her career using data science to grow businesses.In this episode, you’ll learn:Colette’s take on Apple’s ATT and its effect on marketingOutsourcing to an outside agency vs. growing your teamAnalyzing lifetime value and customer acquisition cost for long-term subscribersHow to balance your business and family lifeColette Nataf’s LinksColette Nataf’s LinkedIn pageMileIQLightning AIColette's maternity leave blog postFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Lisa about marketing an app with no revenue, the challenges of adding new revenue streams, and the importance of brand marketing in a post IDFA world.Our guest today is Lisa Kennelly, Chief Marketing Officer at Fishbrain, the #1 app for people who love fishing. At Fishbrain, Lisa manages a team of 20 people, and is responsible for everything from brand positioning and product marketing to business development and e-commerce. Lisa also mentors startup founders on marketing and strategy.In this episode, you’ll learn:How to make the transition from growth to revenueFinding additional revenue opportunities beyond subscriptionsTips for balancing brand awareness marketing and performance marketingLinks & ResourcesVSCOClueLisa Kennelly’s LinksLisa’s LinkedInFollow Fishbrain on TwitterFishbrain’s websiteFishbrain Is on InstagramFishbrain’s Facebook pageFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Matt about how to not screw up switching your app to subscriptions, why offering lifetime subscriptions might not be a great option, and what it’s like when Apple ‘sherlocks’ your product.Our guest today is Matt Ronge, co-founder and CEO of Astropad. Having worked at Apple, Garmin, and founded several companies of his own, Matt is an experienced engineer and entrepreneur with a passion for building creative tools.In this episode, you’ll learn:How to switch your app from paid to subscriptionsShould you offer lifetime subscriptions?Why you should be charging more for your app’s subscriptionTips for limiting subscriber churnLinks & ResourcesGarminGiovanni DonelliMatt Ronge’s LinksFollow Matt Ronge on TwitterMatt's blogMatt’s blog post: How NOT to screw up switching your app to subscriptionsMatt’s podcastAstropadLuna DisplayFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club

On the podcast we talk with Robbie about finding your super users, the real reasons for subscription fatigue, and why pricing isn’t as important as you might think, especially early on.Our guest today is Robbie Kellman Baxter, consultant, keynote speaker, and author. She’s advised many of the world’s leading subscription-based companies, including serving on the advisory board of Strava. Her most recent book, “The Forever Transaction” is a deep dive into everything consumer subscription, and a must read for anyone in the space.In this episode, you’ll learn:Identifying and attracting lifetime value customersHow to get and maintain customer loyaltyThree causes of subscription fatigueWhy customers cancel their subscriptionsLinks & ResourcesStravaIntuitSurvey MonkeyOracleThe Subscription EconomyTien Tzuo: SubscribedEric CrowleySeth MillerCrossFitShopifyCalmMatthieu RouifPhotoRoomGoProElevateVSCORobbie Kellman Baxter’s LinksRobbie Kellman Baxter’s websiteFollow Robbie on TwitterRobbie’s book: The Forever TransactionRobbie’s book: The Membership EconomyRobbie’s LinkedInFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode Transcript00:00:00 David:Hello, I’m your host, David Barnard, and with me, as always, RevenueCat CEO, Jacob Eiting.Our guest today is Robbie Kellman Baxter, consultant, keynote speaker, and author. She’s advised many of the world’s leading subscription-based companies, including serving on the advisory board of Strava. Her most recent book, “The Forever Transaction” is a deep dive into everything consumer subscription, and a must read for anyone in the space.On the podcast we talk with Robbie about finding your super users, the real reasons for subscription fatigue, and why pricing isn’t as important as you might think, especially early on.Hey Robbie, welcome to the podcast.00:00:58 Robbie:Thanks for having me. I’m excited to chat with you both. 00:01:00 David:I was introduced to your work by somebody recommending your book, The Membership Economy, and it really struck me. I was so excited that you agreed to be on the podcast, because here’s a book written in 2015, and we’ll talk about your other book that was written more recently, but written in 2015. I was looking through it, scanning the chapters, so I bought the book. I was like, this is everything we’re talking about now, thinking it’s all so novel with subscription apps, but really consumer subscriptions have been around for decades. You’ve been working in this space way longer than any of us.So, I thought it would be really fun to have you on the podcast to talk more broadly about these principles of consumer subscriptions that apply equally to D to C subscriptions, as well as the app space that we work in. That’s where I wanted to kick things off.So, how did you get your start in consumer subscriptions?00:01:57 Robbie:A couple of threads came together. I was in product-marketing for what is now called SaaS, for five years, right before I hung out my own shingle and started consulting. So, I had that background as a product manager working with software products that were being sold as subscriptions, and then as an independent consultant.My fifth client was Netflix. I fell in love with their business model, and I was wondering why isn’t everybody else falling in love with their business model, too? This is amazing. Recurring revenue, predictable cashflow, the amount of data they were collecting on their customer. The fact that they’re offering was just a much better way of delivering on a promise that many of us wanted delivery for, which is a professionally created catalog of video content delivered in the most efficient way possible. It meant not having to put a raincoat over your jammies to go pick up a movie, with cost certainty and no late fees.I was consulting with Netflix. I was already a customer, and a few people started calling and saying, “Hey, we heard you worked with Netflix. We want to be the Netflix of our space.” Whether that was news, or music, or bicycles, or dental pain management products, or clothes, there was a lot of interest in what it was that Netflix was doing.So, I started trying to create frameworks, trying to say, what are they doing? Which parts are applicable to other businesses, and which parts are just unique to that group of people solving that particular problem?That’s really where I got started, and it turns out to be big enough and deep enough that it’s kept me really busy for, it’s been 20 years, 20 years. 00:03:55 David:Fifth client to, to land as a consultant. That’s a. Really great. And so you were with them before they even introduced the, video on demand on the internet, right. You started with them when it was DVDs in the mail, 00:04:09 Robbie:Yeah. 00:04:10 David:Traditional D to C subscription service. 00:04:13 Jacob:But, but even then was satisfying a lot of those, almost all of those conditions. Right. I didn’t have to go outside just to my mailbox, not too bad price c

On the podcast I talk with Eric about the value destruction of App Tracking Transparency, the limitations of SKAdNetwork, and how to thrive as an app developer in this new paradigm.My guest today is Eric Seufert. Eric has deep operating experience, having worked in growth and strategy roles at consumer tech companies such as Wooga and Rovio, but he also founded and sold a marketing business intelligence company, Agamemnon, and is an active investor in the mobile gaming and ad tech categories. Eric has a depth and breadth of experience with mobile apps and games that few can match. Over the past year Eric has written extensively about App Tracking Transparency and the future of mobile advertising on his trade blog, Mobile Dev Memo.In this episode, you’ll learn:Will Apple’s ATT be a net loss for Apple?Can SKAdNetwork be saved, and does Apple want to save it?Is focusing on organic traffic a flawed strategy?What does the future of app install ads look like?Links & ResourcesRovioSnapchatApple’s Private RelayTim CookOutbrainTaboolaAllTrailsSubClub AllTrails podcast episodeStitcherEric Seufert’s LinksFollow Eric on TwitterMobile Dev MemoHeraclesFreemium Economics: Leveraging Analytics and User Segmentation to Drive Revenue Eric is on LinkedInFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode Transcript00:00:00 David:Hello. I’m your host, David Bernard, and for the first time ever, I’m flying solo today. RevenueCat CEO, Jacob Eiting is busy CEO’ing.My guest today, is Eric Seufert. Having worked in growth and strategy roles at consumer tech companies such as Wooga and Rovio, Eric has a depth and breadth of experience with mobile apps and games that few can match. He also founded and sold marketing business intelligence company Agamemnon, and is an active investor in the mobile gaming and ad tech categories.Over the past year, Eric has written extensively about App Tracking Transparency and the future of mobile advertising on his trade blog, Mobile Dev Memo.On the podcast, I talk with Eric about the value destruction of App Tracking Transparency, the limitations of SKAdNetwork, and how to thrive as an app developer in this new paradigm.Hey Eric, thanks for being on the podcast.00:01:09 Eric:Thank you for having me on the podcast.00:01:11 David:So, we’re going to start off with a bit of a dead horse that’s been beaten over and over again. Apple’s motivation in enacting App Tracking Transparency, but I did want to take kind of a different perspective on it. The most interesting thing to me personally about Apple’s motivation with App Tracking Transparency is what it says about what they are going to do in the future.Did they build SKAdNetwork purposely handicapped, or did they not really understand how handicapped it was? Were they really trying to kill Facebook, or was that a kind of a side benefit? I think that their motivations are important, because it forecasts what changes they may or not make moving forward as they start to see the impact.So, I think the first thing I wanted to ask you is, how do you see Apple’s reaction and how they perceive ATT to be going, now that we’re seeing snap drop 25% after the quarterly earnings report, and see more of the disruption that you and others were predicting, but maybe Apple didn’t quite see coming? How do you think Apple sees this going currently? And what does that say about the future of privacy on iOS?00:02:42 Eric:I think Apple’s primary motivation was not to capture mobile advertising market share. I don’t think that was a primary motivation. I think that’s happened, and I think they expected that to happen, but I don’t think that was the primary driver of this decision.What I think they wanted to do was, there’s kind of like a big picture idea here, and then an immediate consequence idea. I think what Apple did not like, was that they had kind of lost control over content discovery on the iPhone.When the App Store was first launched, that was how you discovered apps. It was through going to the App Store, and some small part search, but then in large part just like the editorial curation that Apple exposes there. That changed over the years, and up until the announcement, or the enactment of of ATT, the way that people discovered apps was through advertising, and primarily Facebook advertising.Apple totally lost control. The content that people interacted with on their phones was not the result of any deliberate decision on Apple’s part or some deliberate consideration. It just happened to be whatever could scale ads the best. Whatever companies could scale their ads the most efficiently, that’s what people interacted with. That’s what became dominant on the platform, and Apple really had no say in that.Short term, narrow aperture view of this, they just wanted to regain control of that. They wanted to be the kingmakers. They wanted to be the tastemakers; the people that decided—the party that decided—what became popular on the iPhone and how

On the podcast, we talk with Ron about the magic of consumer subscriptions, experimenting with freemium strategies, and how private equity isn’t always as bad as you’ve been led to believe.Our guest today is Ron Schneidermann, CEO at AllTrails, the ultimate guide for outdoor adventures. AllTrails was early to the consumer subscription space, launching a $3/month premium tier way back in 2012. Ron joined as CMO and COO in 2015, and then took over as CEO in 2019, helping to grow AllTrails to over 1 million subscribers and tens of millions of active users worldwide.In this episode, you’ll learn:How to refine and optimize your freemium strategyTwo things you need to keep an eye on as a founderThe pros & cons of outside funding vs. organic growthHow Ron fast-tracked AllTrails’ profitabilityLinks & ResourcesAccentureHotwireYelpLiftopiaAlex HonnoldSpectrum EquityRon Schneidermann’s LinksRon Schneidermann’s LinkedIn pageAllTrails Celebrates 1 Million Paid Subscribers! (January press release)AllTrails’ websiteAllTrails is hiringFollow AllTrails on TwitterFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode Transcript00:00:00 David:Our guest today is Ron Schneidermann, CEO at AllTrails, the ultimate guide for outdoor adventures, AllTrails was early to the consumer subscription space, launching a $3 per month premium tier, way back in 2012. Ron joined as CMO and COO in 2015, and then took over as CEO in 2019, helping to grow AllTrails to over 1 million subscribers and tens of millions of active users world.On the podcast, we talk with Ron about the magic of consumer subscriptions, experimenting with freemium strategies, and how private equity isn’t always as bad as you’ve been led to believe.Hey, Ron! Welcome to the podcast. 00:00:59 Ron:Thanks for having me.00:01:00 David:Yeah. Really looking forward to the chat today. I wanted to kick it off, and most people know what AllTrails is, and it’s a fantastic brand. It kind of tells you what it is right there on the tin. What’s your pitch? We’re in 2021, post pandemic.Give us the short version of what AllTrails is. What does it mean? 00:01:21 Ron:Yeah. So AllTrails is a free app and website that helps you find trails all over the globe, so you can spend more time enjoying the outdoors, and spending time in nature.00:01:34 David:That’s awesome.00:01:35 Jacob:That’s a very nice mission. That’s way more beautiful than helping developers make more money. Both are important, but I can smell that. It smells, “piney” and I like it.00:01:46 David:Yeah, it smells like the Colorado forest. I haven’t been hiking forever, and doing all the research to chat with you today was like, oh man, I need to go hiking more.00:01:55 Ron:I heard there’s a great app for that.00:01:57 David:I heard that.So, I did want to also ask about your journey to AllTrails. You got there fairly early, and then grew in, and you’re now CEO. Tell me, off the bat, what led you to AllTrails way back in 2015 when it was just six people?00:02:20 Ron:Yeah. To answer that I’m going to go a little bit further back in time. My first job right after college was at Accenture, at a global management consulting firm. It was great. A good jumping off point, and I learned a ton. I didn’t know anything going into that job. You know, you get the rubber stamp and it opens doors.By the end of my third year there, I kind of had a realization. Epifany is a little too strong a word, but I just kind kinda realized I can’t take a job just for money again. The amount of time and energy that I was putting into it, and the lack of work-life balance, it really made me rethink who I want to be. Who does working Ron want to be?So, I was able to parlay that Accenture job into a biz dev role over at Hotwire, an online travel company. That was really where it opened my eyes. Like, I am so much happier, and I am honestly so much better when I’m working at something that I’m just personally passionate about.That guiding principle has really held through throughout my career trajectory. From Hotwire, I want to do my own startup in the ski space. I love to ski. So, I did that for nine years. It was a ton of fun. Then I was over at Yelp, doing growth for a bit. I love finding non-chain restaurants, and supporting mom and pop businesses, and stuff. I live in Yelp, so that was great.Then, when the opportunity for AllTrails presented itself, it was just kind of a no-brainer. Of course I’m going to take this.I’ll say this to you, one little addendum, one of the things I learned along the way, too. I am not a zero to one guy. That is not when I am at my best. It just causes me stress and anxiety, and just, figuring out how to keep the lights on for another day.So, again, knowing kind of that sense of self knowing. Like, alright, I’m best at B to C. I’m at my best when I’m using products I personally want to use and like talking about. I like hypergrowth, and I think that’s probably my sweet spot.So, it starts to all align when

Our guest today is Eric Crowley, a tech investment banker with GP Bullhound. With investments in companies ranging from Spotify to Whoop, and clients such as AllTrails, Pinkbike, and Lingoda, GP Bullhound provides transaction advice and capital to many of the leaders in the Consumer Subscription Software space.On the podcast we talk with Eric about his 2021 report on Consumer Subscription Software, the truth about LTV calculations, and the new era of organic user acquisition.In this episode, you’ll learn:Was 2020 just a “COVID Bump,” or a shift in consumer behavior?Are the Bumble & Duolingo IPO multiples justified?How savvy developers are adapting to Apple’s App Tracking TransparencyThe truth about LTVThe new era of customer acquisitionLinks & ResourcesSpotifyWhoopAllTrailsPinkbikeLingodaBumbleDuolingoInstacartMatch GroupNetflixNoomWeight WatchersTinderThe DyrtDay One JournalAutomatticTech CrunchScribdPandoraEric Crowley’s LinksFollow Eric on TwitterGP BullhoundGP Bullhound insightsEric’s LinkedInGP Bullhound 2021 CSS surveyFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode Transcript00:00:00 David:Hello, I’m your host. David Bernard. And with me, as always, RevenueCat CEO, Jacob Eiting. Our guest today is Eric Crowley, a tech investment banker with GP Bullhound. With investments in companies ranging from Spotify to Whoop, and clients such as AllTrails Pinkbike, and Lingoda, GP Bullhound provides transaction advice and capital to many of the leaders in consumer subscription software.On the podcast, we talk with Eric about his 2021 report on consumer subscription software, the truth about LTV calculations, and the new era of organic user acquisition.Hey, Eric, welcome to the podcast.00:00:56 Eric:Hey, David, Jacob. Thanks for having me back. It’s always a pleasure. 00:00:59 David:Yeah. Every year you release this report, so we had to get you back. This is the third annual Consumer Subscription Software Report, and I wanted to kick off just asking you a little bit about the motivation, and where your headspace is in thinking about creating this. Who the target is, and what kind of questions you’re asking yourself as you prepare this report.00:01:24 Eric:Yeah. The report is the GP Bullhound Consumer Subscription Software Report. I call it CSS, which is kind of a playoff SaaS. This is the third year I’ve been writing it, and it started back in 2018. I worked with a company called AllTrails that was starting to monetize really well by selling subscriptions.It was like a light bulb went off in my head. I was like, this is a phenomenal way to provide a consistently improving product to consumers, where the margins are pretty good. It’s easy to access a ton of different people globally through the app stores or through the web, and I just got really excited about it.I started putting some notes down on my own, and then GP Bullhound really supported me in saying like, “Hey, this is actually a pretty big trend. There’s gonna be some amazing companies built around this space,” and companies like RevenueCat, that are supporting CSS companies, are just as exciting.So, we’ve been slowly educating ourselves. The goal behind the report is really just to force me to do some thinking about the space. What it looks like. What it will be. As a banker, you can quickly focus on transaction, transaction, transaction, and not really do any long-term thinking about where the world’s going.It’s putting myself in your guys’s shoes. You guys are building RevenueCat not for what the world looks like today, but for what the world looks like in three to five years. I try to take the same approach with CSS, and think about where’s the world going to go. So I talked to a lot of smart people as I put the report together. Entrepreneurs, investors, get their opinions.You guys can see their interviews in the report, and then ultimately we publish it. The audience I like to think about is entrepreneurs, people that are thinking about starting a CSS company, or already launched one, and they’re looking to improve their metrics, or think about their target audience as entrepreneur-rich.By partnering with them, investing in their businesses, it takes them to the next level. The other way I like to think about it, it’s my own personal scoreboard. I love to flip back two years ago and see, was I right about this company? You’re publishing in public, so people can always come back to you and say, “Man, you were way off.” So, I look forward to that.00:03:26 Jacob:I remember the F finding the first one, the 2018, I guess, reporter 2019, whenever the first one you put out,00:03:33 Eric:2019, I think that’s how we met actually.00:03:36 Jacob:Did you reach out to me or? I think I found it, or I don’t remember what it was, but00:03:39 Eric:We’ve had a mutual friend, Nico introduced us and said, Hey, you guys should talk about this. and then I think we just went off on a two hour tangent.00:03:47 Jacob:But yeah, I remember being

Our guest today is Seth Miller, Founder and CEO at Rapchat. Seth is on a mission to democratize music creation with Rapchat’s mobile app. Rapchat takes the friction out of making music, and has helped millions of artists unleash their creativity.Seth earned his bachelor’s degree in business administration, with an emphasis on management information systems, from Ohio University. Before founding Rapchat, Seth worked as a consultant for Adidas, and an IT Systems Engineer.On the podcast we talk with Seth about bootstrapping his way to signs of product market fit, raising money from strategic partners like Sony Music, and what it’s like to have Facebook completely rip off your app.In this episode, you’ll learn:Finding the right niche for your appBootstrapping and early fundingUsing the right marketing channels for your appFiltering out the wrong users for your app's paid featuresHow to transition your app from free to paidLinks & ResourcesSonyNico WittenbornTwitterAdjacentComplexSeth Miller’s LinksFollow Seth on TwitterRapchatFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode Transcript00:00:00 Seth:We would be dead for sure if I didn’t learn how to code. It’s an invaluable skill that I’ll have in this organization and future organizations. It also just helps me think about things. It’s a really great way to look at the world sometimes.00:00:31 David:Hello, I’m your host, David Bernard. And with me as always, RevenueCat CEO, Jacob Eiting. Our guest today is Seth Miller, founder and CEO at Rapchat. Seth is on a mission to democratize music creation with Rapchat’s mobile app. It takes the friction out of making music, and has helped millions of artists unleash their creativity on the podcast.We talk with Seth about bootstrapping his way to signs of product market fit. Raising money from strategic partners like Sony, and what it’s like to have Facebook completely rip off your app.Hey Seth, welcome to the podcast!00:01:06 Seth:How’s it going? Thanks for having me.00:01:07 David:It’s been a long time coming. You and I first chatted way back in 2019. You were the first office hour call I ever took at RevenueCat.00:01:18 Seth:Oh, wow. 00:01:19 David:Yeah, going way back in my RevenueCat days. 00:01:22 Jacob:It tells you how bad of a CEO I am that we’ve never actually spoken on the phone in those two years.00:01:30 Seth:Or how good David was!00:01:31 Jacob:Yeah.00:01:32 Seth:I was sold after one call. I’m like, all right, dude, where do I sign up? How do I get this going? 00:01:37 Jacob:We have a lot of cross connections, because you’re an Adjacent portfolio. Nico is a co-investor. We’re also both Ohio-based. So, yeah, lots of cover today.00:01:54 Seth:We got to hang out. 00:01:55 Jacob:We should. It’s beautiful in Ohio today, but I’m not going to make an Ohio podcast.But, maybe kickoff and tell us, what is Rapchat?00:02:07 Seth:Yeah, absolutely. So, Rapchat is the easiest way to make music on your phone. We have an iOS and Android app. You really just like tap in, and open the app. We have hundreds and thousands of free beats on the app. So, you just pick a beat, you can record over it, and then you can share that anywhere.We have people making full-length studio-quality songs from their phone and sharing it to Instagram and SoundCloud. And then also on the platform, we have a social layer as well. Which is really cool. Pretty much a recording studio in your pocket, with a community, with a social layer.Similar to Visco, or Instagram for music. Our mission is really to democratize music by providing access and tools to the next billion music creators.00:03:01 Jacob:How did you get on this idea?00:03:05 Seth:Well, like just scratching my own itch in the early days. Almost eight years ago when I was in college, apps were really starting to become a thing, and same with social networks and you-do-see platforms that let you create content and share it. You know, the golden era of Vine, Snap, all of that. But there was nothing for music.I also had a hobby of freestyling with my friends. So, we’d get together, throw on beats, and rap, and some people would sing and just create all sorts of stuff. It was something that I noticed that was like, yeah, this should exist on your phone. I should be able to do this with my high school buddies that are on a different campus that I used to do it with.That was really it, just scratching my own itch. Then over time, I think we’ve really come to realize that there’s just this massive opportunity to do this at scale for those that really want to make music and take it seriously.So, I’ve kind of outgrown my own use case a little bit, even though we have people that come and have fun, but really we’re focused on providing tools for the everyday artist that historically has been kind of gatekeeped out of participating in music. So, we try and give them everything we can in their pocket, and still feels like we’re only getting started. 00:04:26 Jacob:It’s not as eas

Watch the video version of this show on YouTube »Matthieu Rouif is the co-founder and CEO of PhotoRoom. PhotoRoom enables anyone to create studio-quality photos on their iPhone. Before founding PhotoRoom, Matthieu was the Senior Project Manager at GoPro. Matthieu is also the co-founder and CTO of HeyCrowd, and co-founder and CEO of As-App.Matthieu earned his graduate degree in materials science and engineering from Stanford University, and his bachelor’s degrees in economics, and physics from École Polytechnique. While at École Polytechnique, Matthieu was a member of the skydiving team and debate team. Matthieu also served as a Parachutist Commando Officer in the French Air Force.Matthieu started developing apps in 2009 as a student at Stanford, and subsequently started two iPhone app companies. He was part of the Replay app team when they won App of the Year in 2014. Matthieu started PhotoRoom after leaving GoPro in 2018.In this episode, you’ll learn:Matthieu’s retention strategies for keeping app users subscribedInnovative and clever ways to get users to demo your appBalancing your app’s pricing and featuresHow churn can be an assetLinks & ResourcesYCHeyCrowdGoProPhotoshopZenleaShopifyPoshmarkDepopCorelMatthieu Rouif’s LinksMatthieu on TwitterMatthieu on LinkendInPhotoRoom is hiring!10 Tools to Ship an iOS App in 2 WeeksPhotoRoom’s WebsitePhotoRoom APIPhotoRoom on TwitterFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode Transcript00:00:00 David:Hello, I’m your host, David Barnard. And with me as always, Jacob Eiting, RevenueCat CEO. Our guest today is Matt Rouif, co-founder and CEO at PhotoRoom, the app for removing backgrounds and creating studio quality photos right from your phone.On the podcast, we talk with Matt about how his time at GoPro led to founding PhotoRoom, how churn can actually be an asset, and how being locked in Apple’s basement led to one of PhotoRoom’s biggest marketing wins.Hey, Matt. Thanks for joining us on the podcast today. How are you doing?00:00:48 Matthieu:Great. Hey David, Hey Jacob.00:00:51 Jacob:Hi, it’s nice to finally meet internet/virtual face-to-face. We’ve known each other for a little while. I’ve become fortunate to know you kind of through RevenueCat, but not actually know-know you. So, it’s nice to finally put a face to the name.I was looking back through my email and I think the first I ever heard of you was from our mutual friend, Cisco, if I say that correctly?00:01:23 Matthieu:Yeah, Francisco.00:01:24 Jacob:Francisco, who shared with me a blog post that I had seen that you wrote where you talked about RevenueCat as part of your stack. Since then, I think we talked as you were thinking about going into YC, and then after YC, I put in a little bit of money, so this is a good opportunity to check in on my investment.I’m super excited to dive in, because there’s a lot of questions. I kind of have followed you guys and kind of seeing some of the stuff you’ve been doing, but I don’t know, like the behind the scenes decision making processes and like, and all that stuff. So yeah, I’m excited to hear the story firsthand.00:02:04 David:Yeah, but before we get into PhotoRoom, you’ve got quite a history in app development. So, I want to go back to the beginning and talk war stories. A lot of people were in the industry way back when. Jacob and I both started really early as well. So, you got your start during the Stanford class and you were actually a teaching assistant at Stanford at the time, right? I’m kind of stealing your story, but yeah. Tell me, tell me how you got into it.00:02:34 Matthieu:Yeah. Actually I wasn’t a teaching assistant in physics. I was doing a master’s in physics at Stanford, right at the moment of the first iPhone class. And, I actually went to Stanford because I was fascinated by the entrepreneurship. And I had this business idea of printing photos and sending them.And that seemed a lot easier not to buy hardware, but just use the iPhone which just started at that point. So, I was at Stanford, there was the iPhone class. I wanted to do a photo app. So, see, 12 years later....00:03:05 Jacob:A 12 year overnight success.00:03:07 Matthieu:That’s what they say. Exactly. And, yeah, I got, I actually, I got started, programming.I was doing physics before, and I didn’t know anything about programming. So I took a class with a friend that went through the basics, and I just wanted to push products on apps. And I found that the iPhone was the best at that point. And actually the photo app became something else.The first company I started back in grad school and they became like a ski resorts app. I shipped, we had all of the major ski resorts. And, It was a great, I did that for two years and a major ski resorts and, yeah.I started an apps company after that, one called HeyCrowd around a social network. So like we had surveys that you could answer to with polls, like, a bit like Instagram stories now, and that didn’t work so well co

On the podcast, we talk with Ben about all things app stores. From Apple’s revolutionary launch of the App Store in 2008 to the monopoly-like powers both Google and Apple now wield today. With multiple lawsuits filed, government investigations ongoing, and developer sentiment at an all-time low, we take an honest look at the challenges and trade-offs in trying to bring two of the world’s largest companies to heel.Ben Thompson's LinksStratecheryBen’s Twitter: @benthompsonFollow Us:David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnardJacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeitingRevenueCat: https://twitter.com/RevenueCatSub Club: https://twitter.com/SubClubHQ

Watch the video version of this show on YouTube »Shamanth Rao is the founder and CEO at Rocketship HQ. Shamanth also hosts the Mobile User Acquisition Show podcast, and is the lead instructor for the Mobile Growth Lab workshop series.RocketShip HQ is a boutique growth marketing firm with 8 figures in managed spend. Before founding RocketshipHQ, Shamanth led growth marketing resulting in 3 exits: Bash Gaming (sold for $170mm), Puzzle Social (acquired by Zynga), and FreshPlanet (acquired by Gameloft). Shamanth has also helped many other mobile apps grow and scale.Shamanth is passionate about teaching and sharing everything he’s learned about mobile growth. Much of his time and energy goes into the Mobile User Acquisition Show. Shamanth strives to ensure that the wisdom he’s gained reaches as many people as possible.In this episode, you’ll learn:The history of user acquisition and algorithmic targetingHow Apple’s AppTrackingTransparency has shifted users to AndroidWhat Apple’s new tracking policy means for developersAre subscription apps impacted more than other apps by Apple’s tracking policy?Links & ResourcesA Brief History of App Store Monetization episode – with David BarnardA Brief History of Device Identification episode – with David PhilippsoniOS 14 & IDFA Deprecation How App Marketers Must Adapt - YouTubeShamanth Rao’s LinksRocketShip HQ’s websiteThe Mobile User Acquisition ShowMobile Growth LabFollow Shamanth on TwitterShamanth Rao’s websiteFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode TranscriptShamanth: 00:00:00The more signal you give to the algorithm, the better the algorithm performs, right? You know, in the post AppTrackingTransparency world, if you gain more purchases, the better the algorithm performs, obviously that would take purchases from you and everybody in the world, and it would just do better. Now, obviously it’s just taking your trial and doing much, much better.David: 00:00:38Welcome to the sub club podcast. I’m your host, David Bernard, and with me as always Jacob Eiting.Hello Jacob.Jacob: 00:00:45David, glad to be here with you, as always. David: 00:00:48Our guest today is Shamanth Rao, founder and CEO at RocketShip HQ, of the podcast Mobile User Acquisition Show, and lead instructor at the workshop series Mobile Growth. Shamanth’s company, RocketShip HQ is a boutique growth marketing agency with eight figures in managed spend. Prior to founding RocketShip HQ Shamanth growth marketing, to three exits. Hey Shamanth.Welcome to the podcast. Shamanth: 00:01:16Honored to be here. Thank you for having me, David and Jacob.David: 00:01:19Yeah. So, I wanted to start with a little bit of a history lesson. You’ve been in mobile advertising and working on mobile apps for, since very early. So, could you take just a couple of minutes and step us through the history of kind of what led us to today with app tracking transparency, and all the different ups and downs and changes that have happened over the past?Shamanth: 00:01:48Yeah. There’s been a lot of ups and downs, as you said. I see two overarching trends, but for folks who want to go into the weeds, I would actually recommend two podcast episodes. One was mine with you, David. A brief history of App Store monetization. You provide a very great perspective into how the App Store itself has changed over the years.The other one was an interview I did with David Phillips, A Brief History of Device Identification You know, we are all about brief histories, but, I think to what we talking about ATT and how essentially disrupted growth in today. There have been two forces that have led up to this point, the last decade or so I think it’s important to know and understand both of these, just to know how we got here and why it’s important, right.Because ATT just did not happen overnight. There were signs for a decade. And, you know, I think obviously a lot of this is evident in retrospect. but I think it’s helpful to know and understand what those breadcrumbs were.Trend number one has been increasing accumulation of particular data platforms over the last decade.You know, I remember, you know, David, as you pointed out, I am a really old person who, which around then, but we don’t advertise. It took off, with all this gray hair. But you know, when I started that we were doing CPC buys, CPM buys. I started doing mobile advertising before Facebook even had mobile ads, app ads.There is no conversion tracking. you know, I give it like no conversion tracking. If you, would buy installs, and you’re like, oh, we bought 70 stops. We got so many touches that we are profitable and spent like millions on games the time. And suddenly the level of sophistication that emerged in mobile advertising. I don’t think we could have posted in 12, 20 13, 20 14. But like I said, from the TPC buys gradually they have a CPI buys as ad networks that now are billion dollar companies. And so it’s an app love and have a tiny ad networks at the

Watch the video version of this show on YouTube »Maddie Kirby is currently the Senior Social Media Manager for the video journal app, 1 Second Everyday. Maddie started her social media marketing career at Ozwest. Ozwest is an exclusive distributor of Zing branded toy products and the Ozwest toy line in the USA and Canada.While working at Ozwest, Maddie started growing her personal social media presence. Maddie has almost 400k followers on TikTok. Since joining 1 Second Everyday in 2019, Maddie has been instrumental in leveraging TikTok to organically drive millions of downloads.Maddie has a bachelor’s degree in advertising from the University of Oregon, and has also worked for companies such as Bytedance, Inc., Egg Strategy, Transition Productions, and Atomicus Films.In this episode, you’ll learn:How to promote your app with user-created contentClever tricks to get your app noticedWhy TikTok is a great place to market your appA great strategy for growing your app’s follower countLinks & ResourcesMaddie and David’s App Promotion Summit USA panel discussionCesar Kuriyama’s TwitterCesar Kuriyama’s TED TalkDavid Smith on The Sub Club PodcastWidgetsmith appMaddie Kirby’s LinksMaddie Kirby’s TikTokMaddie Kirby’s LinkedIn1 Second Everyday’s website1 Second Everyday is on Twitter1 Second Everyday’s InstagramZing Toys websiteFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode TranscriptMadison: 00:00:00I like to think of them as content buckets or pillars. You pick three and stick with those for a little bit. Try a few ideas in each bucket. See what's working, what's not. Scrolling through the app is the best way to kind of keep on top of things. And then you have to be able to think really fast and post really fast because these trends come and go. Jacob: 00:00:39Welcome to the Sub Club podcast. Our guest today is Maddie Kirby, Senior Social Media Manager at 1 Second Everyday. She began her career in social media marketing at toy company, Ozwest.While working there she also started growing her personal social media presence, accumulating almost 400,000 followers on TikTok.In 2019, Maddie joined 1 Second Everyday where she has been instrumental in leveraging TikTok to organically drive millions of downloads.Maddie, welcome to the podcast.Madison: 00:01:08Thank you. I'm excited to be here.Jacob: 00:01:10I'm also here with David, my guest, which I forgot to introduce in our freaky Friday intro swap.David: 00:01:16I usually do the introductions, but that was great. Jacob.Jacob: 00:01:19Hey, you know what? I'm very, very, very versed at...David: 00:01:21You gotta mix things up. Jacob: 00:01:23I'll pass back to David because he's the one who preps all the questions. David: 00:01:29Nice. Maddie and I were on a panel together earlier this month, at App Promotion Summit, which is a great thing to watch. We can link it in the show notes.It was four of us on the panel and it went really quick, but she shared a lot of really interesting stuff about what she's working on in social media marketing, and working with 1 Second Everyday on their TikTok presence.So, I wanted to bring her on the podcast to actually give her time to talk a little more about it in the context of promoting apps, because she's been on a couple of other podcasts where they're talking more specifically about social media.I'm super excited to have you, Maddie.I do want to dive in. We typically do have more developer focused guests, you know, people that are doing the coding or focused on user acquisition, spending 50K a month on Facebook. And so that's another reason I was excited to have you on the podcast is to just get a really different perspective.I think that there's a lot of potential in social media marketing. But not a lot of people talking about it in the app space and then...Jacob: 00:02:40Or just knowing how to do it, right?How do you even start, especially if you're a developer-turned-promoter. I think a lot of app creators tend to do the things you were talking about. David does technical channels about buying ads on Facebook or whatever, where's a lot of leverage in social media stuff. If you can do it. David: 00:03:02Yeah, absolutely. So, I did want to start with, you got your start in social media marketing, not with an app, which is another thing. It's like you came to the app marketing with such a different perspective, which I think is is really good. There's too many people who are just so narrowly focused in the kind of existing playbook for marketing apps.So, are there any lessons from your time at of all the places a toy company? Any particular lessons from being at a toy company that you think helped you grow and learn this form of marketing and specifically that apply to subscription apps?Madison: 00:03:41Yeah. I don't know if it's necessarily a lesson or lessons that I've learned. But I think coming from the toy industry, which is also an industry where people don't leave it. They have a lot of people that s

Watch the video version of this show on YouTube »Andy Carvell is the Partner & Co-Founder of Phiture, a mobile growth agency. Here he has worked with some of the biggest apps on the App Store, including Headspace, Spotify, Triller, and VSCO.Prior to founding Phiture, Andy worked on the marketing and growth teams at SoundCloud. His team built SoundCloud's activity notification system, which delivered over 500 million pushes per month, and increased M1 retention by five percentage points in its first few months of operation. Andy has been in the mobile industry since the late ‘90s, when he started working at Nokia. Andy has a deep interest in technology, strategy and the execution of ideas.In this episode, you’ll learn:Andy’s user retention techniquesThe most overlooked component in marketing your appHow to optimize your customer’s App Store experienceAndy’s formula for maximizing your app’s notification strategyLinks & ResourcesSoundCloudHeadspaceSpotifyTrillerVSCONokiaRevenueCatSalesforceIntercomElevateKiwiCoBrazeLeanplumIterableAndy Carvell’s LinksPhiturePhiture’s Mobile Growth StackAndy on Twitter: @andy_carvellAndy on LinkedInWork at PhitureFollow us on Twitter:David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode TranscriptAndy: 00:00:00So the impact that you can drive with notifications is reach, times relevance, times frequency. What we learned from the time at SoundCloud was not all notifications are equal, and the really killer ones that are going to really supercharge your business, have high reach, high relevance and high frequency.And then, then you’re in that golden quadrant.David: 00:00:35Welcome to the Sub Club podcast. I’m your host, David Bernard. And with me is always Jacob Eiting. Hello, Jacob.Jacob: 00:00:42Hi, David. David: 00:00:43It’s a thundering in your neck of the woods, I hear. Jacob: 00:00:46It’s, you know, it’s cleared up now. I think we’re gonna make it.David: 00:00:50I’ve got a plumber. Our guests might have some construction workers. It’s going to be a fun one today!Jacob: 00:00:55Is it, David? You’re breaching the magic of podcasting and it’s going to get audited out.David: 00:01:01All right. Speaking of our guests, our guest today is Andy Carvell, partner and co-founder of Phiture, a mobile growth agency. At Phiture, Andy has worked with some of the biggest apps on the App Store, including Headspace, Spotify, Triller, and VSCO.Prior to find founding Phiture, Andy worked on the marketing and growth teams at SoundCloud.Welcome to the podcast, Andy.Andy: 00:01:23Thanks, David. A real pleasure. Thanks for inviting me on. Excited to be here.David: 00:01:27Yeah. So, you and I were chatting a little bit about your background as I was kind of prepping your bio, and you shared a really fun anecdote. So, I think I’m like, “Old man in the mobile space,” you know, or Jacob and I both; we both had apps on the App Store in 2008, you know, we were early. But you started in mobile a little, just a few years before that. Andy: 00:01:52Just a little bit more. David: 00:01:53Tell us about that. You were at Nokia making games in 1999.Andy: 00:01:58Yeah, right out of university, I graduated computer science in ‘99. I always wanted to be making games, and I was applying for roles in the games industry, and then the agent that was kind of helping me find those said, “Hey, there’s this company Nokia. They make mobile phones.”I didn’t own a mobile phone at that point. None of my friends did, but it was just kind of reaching the tipping point, and they wanted to put games on these things, and I’m like, okay, that’s sounds interesting.I went along to the interview. I really was very kind of amazed at the, you know, the R and D center there. It was like, like pretty space age, you know, they were working on some real next level shit.And, I was actually pretty excited by the idea of like cramming, you know, decent games into like 16 kilobytes, which is what I had to play with building embedded games on a black and white 84 by 48 pixel display.Jacob: 00:02:55So, I was going to ask, are we talking like Snake, or are we talking like Java level stuff?Andy: 00:03:00It was pre Java. It was an embedded game. So, I was coding in C in Assembly, and I basically had to like build the whole game from start to finish. We had this shared designer who did the pixel art, and I had to cram it into 16K and make it fun. Yeah.I wrote a pretty game called Space Impact there, which was released on the 3310 phone, which I think wasn’t available in America. But in the rest of world a lot of people played that game. It was like the first, side-scrolling arcade, shoot-them-up, on a mobile.David: 00:03:30That is amazing. Jacob: 00:03:31Well, it’s pretty incredible. Just even think like the iPhone wasn’t that far behind that right? Like you were doing 16K assembly and C, and like eight years later, we were going to have like open GL driven games. So just pretty wild.Andy: 00:03:51Yeah, it’s moved on a lot.David: 00:03:53So af

Watch the video version of this show on YouTube »Alex Ross is the co-founder & CEO at Gregarious, Inc. Gregarious is the company behind Greg, an app dedicated to helping people grow healthier and happier plants. Greg’s community has grown from 100 beta users in August 2020 to over 50,000 monthly active users today.Alex graduated from the University of California, Los Angeles, and studied data science and statistics at MIT. Alex has worked for companies such as Cisco, The Daily Aztec, and Cannon Trading.Prior to founding Gregarious, Alex spent 4 years as Director of Engineering at Tinder. Alex also co-founded Enplug, a digital signage company that was acquired earlier this year.In this episode, you’ll learn:The two critical steps in making a successful appAn ingenious strategy for partnering your app with retail companiesWhy you should involve your customers in content creationLinks & ResourcesTinderEnplugfitbod appY Combinator (YC)Alex Ross’ LinksGreg appAlex’s Twitter: @AreteRossJob opportunities at GregariousAlex’s LinkedInGregarious, Inc. on LinkedInFollow Us:David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnardJacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeitingRevenueCat: https://twitter.com/RevenueCatSub Club: https://twitter.com/SubClubHQEpisode TranscriptAlex: 00:00:00The two steps in making a successful app business are make something worth using, and then put it in front of the people who would use it.If you have a plant, and you don’t know what to do with it, we solve that problem.So, what we did is we reached out to a bunch of plant retailers, “Hey, we will help your customers have a positive outcome with your product.”Can you put in our little QR code? And now when these retailers ship out a new plant, every single one of them has this little QR code in it.It led to our first 15,000 users, I’d say. David: 00:00:30Welcome to the Sub Club podcast. I’m your host, David Bernard. And with me as always, Jacob Eiting. Hello, Jacob.Jacob: 00:00:53Happy to be here. David: 00:00:55You sound incredibly happy.Jacob: 00:00:57It’s great. It’s a Friday, David. The sun is shining. They’re grilling a bunch of chickens in my hometown. I got nothing to complain about. It’s gonna be great.David: 00:01:05Our guest today is Alex Ross, founder and CEO at Gregarious, makers of Greg, an app to help you grow healthier and happier plants. Prior to founding Gregarious Alex spent four years as director of engineering at Tinder.Alex also co-founded Enplug, a digital signage company that was acquired earlier this year. Welcome to the podcast, Alex.Alex: 00:01:27Thank you guys. Good to see you. Thanks, David, Jacob.Jacob: 00:01:29Hi. David: 00:01:30So, I’m going to try really hard this whole podcast and not call you Greg, but I’ve made that mistake.Jacob: 00:01:36I was thinking like, I get like annoying company name questions. Sometimes. I’m like, I’m sure you get more worse than me.Alex: 00:01:43But I’m considering just legally adopting Greg as alias or something. Jacob: 00:01:48Yeah. You know, I mean, that’s a news cycle right there. A little bit of earned PR. David: 00:01:55So I wanted to ask you, so obviously, you know, director of engineering at Tinder that’s, I mean, what a rocket ship that must’ve been quite a wild ride. So, tell me a little bit about, about how you ended up at Tinder and then, you know, if you do have any fun, war stories from there, that’d be great to hear. Alex: 00:02:16Yeah, definitely. It was a rocket ship. Definitely some war stories, some wins, some losses. So, I came across Tinder and I was looking to get into like a consumer application. so I was interviewing with Uber and Twitter, and then I came across Tinder on an angel list. Actually the head of recruiting at the time reached out to me and I kind of took it on a whim.To be honest, I had not used the app before, before even interviewing or anything. that’s kind of a challenge for Tinder is like, do you, how many of the teammates need to use Tinder? Because a lot of people are married and in relationships, and those are great people to have on the team. And so it makes it odd, and kind of difficult or complicated. But, basically I joined when it was around 70 people, if I recall. So, it was a pretty small team. There was already a global user base, so it was one of the scrappiest, global brands I think probably has ever existed. Because this was all right before Tinder or right around the time that Tinder launched its first monetization efforts.And so there wasn’t really awareness as to like, great, there’s this like large, global, many millions of people are using this thing, but is it going to make money? Right? That was still an open question at the time that I joined. So, yeah, basically I joined and it was very, it was definitely still a startup.And, so there was not a lot of structure and I think my manager changed on the first day, like the person I was talking about working with's desk changed, but I had a great time and basically I ended up cre

David Smith is a full-time independent app developer. Since 2006, David has owned and operated a small company focusing on creating applications for the iPhone and Apple Watch.David has built many successful apps over the years. His most recent app, Widgetsmith, went viral and hit #1 on the App Store. It has over 50 million downloads. David’s other successful apps include Watchsmith, Pedometer++, and Sleep++.David also co-hosts a weekly podcast called Under the Radar, where he and his co-host Mario Arment discuss Apple-related topics.In this episode, you’ll learn:How to transition from a hobbyist to a full-time app developerTwo big mistakes to avoid when starting out as an app developerHow customers find new apps in 2021The biggest waste of time and money for an app developerLinks & ResourcesThe LibriVox projectMirror appLaunch Center Pro appDavid Smith’s LinksDavid’s WebsiteAudiobooks appWidgetsmith appWatchsmith appPedometer++ appSleep++ appUnder the Radar podcastDavid’s Twitter: @_DavidSmithiOS Version StatsFollow Us:David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnardJacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeitingLike this episode?Subscribe to Sub Club on Spotify or Apple Podcasts to get the latest news on mobile subscription apps.Episode TranscriptDavid Smith: 00:00:00I’ve launched, I think it’s 56 or 57 apps at this point, and all but about six of them have completely failed. I say that mostly because I’ve launched more failures probably than anyone in the App Store in some ways, and that’s the way that you can end up with success, I’ve just kept trying, and it got me that little baseline of income that it was like, okay, I’m not just wasting my time here.David: 00:00:19Welcome to the Sub Club podcast. I’m your host, David Barnard, and with me as always Jacob Eiting. Hello Jacob.Jacob: 00:00:43Hi David Number one, How are you?David: 00:00:46I’m good. Our guest today, maybe number two, is David Smith, long time indie developer and podcaster. Starting with Audiobooks in 2009, David has built many successful apps over the years, including Widgetsmith. Pedometer. His most recent app, Widgetsmith went viral on TikTok, and hit number one in the App Store.Welcome David.David Smith: 00:01:10Thank you, It’s great to be here.David: 00:01:11Yeah, it’s great to chat. We’ve chatted in person a few times, and bumped into each other at WWDC over the years. You’ve been doing this pretty much since the very beginning, right? Audiobooks came out in 2009, when did you actually start working on that?David Smith: 00:01:27So, It wasn’t even my first first app. I think my first app that never went anywhere, it was launched in 2008. So, I mean, I was within a couple of months of the App Store launching. So I’ve been doing it essentially as long as you could, and I think I started working on, oh yeah. Audiobooks, the end of 2008.And it’s just kind of grown from there. So it’s about 13 years in the App Store.David: 00:01:46Like me and Jacob, actually, we both had apps...Jacob: 00:01:50In the on days of paid up front, and only 200 apps on the App Store, and all that. It is a good time. Were you a developer, like a Mac developer before that? Or how did you trip into iOS?David Smith: 00:02:06Sure. I was a web developer before I did this, and so, I mean, honestly, I started writing apps before I even actually owned an iPhone. I just, it seemed like a good opportunity and I wasn’t particularly happy where I was at work and it was just something that I thought would be interesting opportunity.And I started learning and didn’t know what I was doing for a long time, but just kept at it. And so it’s just one of those things I got into mostly because it seemed like a good opportunity at the time. And so, you know, I just, eventually I initially was doing some web consulting as well as my iOS work.And eventually they just, the web consulting disappeared and it became iOS full-time, and that’s sort of been the story for more than a, you know, like 10 years now probably.Jacob: 00:02:47Yeah, no, I was, Kind of similar, like I just saw it coming and it was like, Hmm, maybe I should. And I went and picked up the Macco OS, the the Hillegass book and learned Mac OS programming, like, yeah, because there wasn’t the iOS book, right. There was no iOS, it was iPhone iOS. But yeah, it was a different time, fewer apps way, smaller community.So, yeah. Interesting decade.David: 00:03:15I do want to start by digging into the story of Audiobooks, and, I think one of the, one of the interesting things to me, because it happened to me as well, is how having this kind of foundation app that, that started in 2009, that did well enough. And, and I’m, I kind of jumping ahead here a little bit, but I, I think if I know your story correctly, Audiobooks is kind of what helped you make the leap to be full-time indie. And then once you become full-time indie, you started to have the time to experiment with all these other apps, and a similar thing with me, like I’ve had a co

Our guest today is Ben Bajarin, CEO and Principal Analyst at Creative Strategies. For the past 20 years, Ben has been studying the consumer tech market and providing actionable insight and strategic recommendations to many of the top technology companies in the world.In this episode, you’ll hear about:The results from Ben’s survey of iOS developersWhy positive developer sentiment is invaluable to platform ownersHow much developers think is fair for Apple to chargeFollow Us:David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnardJacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeitingBen Bajarin: https://twitter.com/BenBajarin

In this episode, you’ll hear about:The pros and cons of selling an app on your own versus going through a brokerWhat to watch out for during negotiationsWhat to expect after selling your appFollow Us:David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnardJacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeitingEric Owens: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericowens/Here’s the Outline of Our Interview with Eric:(1:00) Eric and David have worked together before!(1:25) How Eric became an app broker.(5:09) The top reasons app developers decide to sell their businesses; capital gains taxes; David’s experience selling his first app.(8:03) Why people buy app businesses.(10:11) Do app buyers typically purchase successful apps or fixer-uppers?(13:35) The benefits of selling a successful app “prematurely;” David’s Mirror app.(15:25) The challenges of selling iOS apps: iCloud, Passbook, Sign In with Apple, Catalyst; Gas Cubby.(19:13) How app business valuations are calculated; the App Store Small Business program.(23:34) Adding subscriptions to an app increases its value to buyers.(26:51) What kind of documentation you should have in place before selling your app.(28:34) How buyers approach purchasing an app from a solo developer.(30:27) Finding app buyers.(33:33) App business sales increased during the COVID-19 pandemic.(34:00) The pros and cons of selling your app on your own; Flippa.(39:17) Going through a broker helps you stay emotionally detached during the negotiation process.(40:35) Fiduciary duties; representing app buyers versus sellers.(42:38) What to watch out for during negotiations; low-ball offers; due diligence.(48:17) The app sale closing process; escrow.com; closing costs.(50:21) Brokerage fees; working with Eric.(51:00) What comes after an app sale? Non-compete agreements; handoffs.(57:00) Connect with Eric on LinkedIn or get in touch at appbusinessbrokers.com.Quotes:“Any business with any kind of subscription revenue is always going to sell for higher, no matter what it is. Buyers love that... The one move you can make in any business that will increase your valuation is to add some kind of subscription revenue.” - Eric“As I get later in my life, [I’ve realized] brokers are amazing. Think about it: as an app developer, you spend 99% of your time being an app developer, right? And then you have this 1% critical action, which is the sale… It’s really useful to have somebody on your side who’s done this before and can tell you what you’re doing that’s wrong and what you’re doing that’s right.” - Jacob“If you’re an inexperienced seller of something, get somebody to help you out.” - Jacob“I forget what I paid Eric; it was probably $20,000 or $30,000. But to me, I saw it as worth every penny because he helped bring the market that got the highest and best value of the app… Having access to that pool of buyers and having Eric’s experience helping me walk through it, I think it made up the [cost] of whatever I paid him in the valuation that I got in the sale.” - David“I’ve sold three apps, and it’s been huge for me. It’s helped pay off debt, it’s helped put a little money away, and helped me sleep better at night. There’s a lot of reasons to do it.” - David“There’s a lot of people who can’t make [apps]. I think as indie app people, we just kind of take for granted — because we hang out on Twitter with a bunch of other people who know how to make apps — that it’s not that unique. And it’s a tough business; it’s not always easy to make an app that’s going to make you a lot of money. But if you factor in… the fact that not everybody can make these things, that can be a really useful tool for you to unlock liquidity earlier than you would otherwise.” - Jacob“I think people should have the mindset… that you are building an asset that you can sell someday if you want to. You don’t ever have to, but build something that is sellable. If people can treat it more as an investment, that can see people through some of the dark times, the challenges of being an entrepreneur.” - EricLike this episode?Subscribe to Sub Club on Spotify or Apple Podcasts to get the latest news on mobile subscription apps.