School of War

John McManus, author of To the End of the Earth: The US Army and the Downfall of Japan, 1945 and host of the We Have Ways of Making You Talk in the USA podcast, joins the show to talk about why the U.S. Army’s war in the Pacific during WWII merit deeper study and recognition. ▪️ Times • 02:12 Introduction • 03:57 Lessons to be learned • 05:32 The Army from Pearl to Tokyo • 08:50 Winds of change • 14:07 Europe first • 21:16 Taiwan or the Philippines? • 27:55 Battleground Manila • 30:48 Bleeding the Americans • 34:56 Failures in China • 40:33 Chiang Kai-shek • 45:07 Okinawa • 48:06 Operation Downfall • 52:24 Revisionist and reductionist history • 55:19 Required reading Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Dmitry Filipoff, head of online content at the Center for International Maritime Security, joins the show to talk about modern naval tactics and the readiness of the U.S. Navy for a surface engagement with the PLA Navy. ▪️ Times • 01:26 Introduction • 02:48 Evolution in naval warfare • 05:46 Historical comps • 08:01 Lessons from the Red Sea • 09:37 Anti-ship missiles • 12:16 DMO - Distributed Maritime Operations • 15:00 What is the surface Navy’s purpose? • 20:00 Massing fires • 22:33 Defeating missile defenses • 29:25 Scarcity and the network • 34:12 Can the dynamic change? • 37:13 Aircraft carriers • 40:14 Is the U.S. Navy ready? • 44:36 Exercises • 47:51 Institutional knowledge • 49:38 Is the PLAN ready? A FLEET ADRIFT: THE MOUNTING RISKS OF THE U.S. NAVY’S FORCE DEVELOPMENT Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Peter Feaver, Professor of Political Science and Public Policy at Duke University and author of Thanks For Your Service: The Causes and Consequences of Public Confidence in the US Military, joins the show to talk about the state of civil-military relations in America, and to call for a truce on the issue of “wokism.” ▪️ Times • 01:46 Introduction • 2:40 Precedents • 4:18 Citizen soldier to today • 11:40 Expanding fissures • 18:46 Downsides to a high approval rating • 25:04 Isolationism and “wokeness” • 33:56 Sloppy discourse • 38:16 An echo of the ’90s • 41:11 Progress • 48:28 Race/Sexuality/Gender • 55:03 A bit of Sparta in Athens Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Sean Mirski, author of We May Dominate the World: Ambition, Anxiety, and the Rise of the American Colossus, joins the show to talk about how the United States came to its global position and China’s attempts to match it. ▪️ Times • 01:40 Introduction • 2:22 An accidental project • 6:41 The view from Washington • 13:18 American paranoia • 16:43 Post Civil War Mexico • 22:04 Smedley Butler • 24:46 The problem of order • 31:12 After WWI • 33:04 Strategic vulnerabilities • 38:32 Regional hegemony • 44:51 A desire to dominate • 48:36 A lesson and a warning Here is a link to the article discussed today Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Paul Edgar, Executive Director of the Clements Center for National Security at the University of Texas-Austin, a veteran of the U.S. Army, and a scholar of ancient Near Eastern warfare, joins the show to talk about war and peace in the old days—the very old days. ▪️ Times • 02:58 Introduction • 10:07 Olmsted • 16:00 The Bronze Age • 22:07 Verifying history • 27:12 Idrimi • 35:03 How did they fight? • 39:46 Tactics of the time • 42:34 Continuities in geopolitics Here is a link to the article discussed today Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Iskander Rehman, Ax:son Johnson Fellow at SAIS’s Kissinger Center and author of Planning for Protraction: A Historically Informed Approach to Great-power War and Sino-US Competition, joins the show to talk about how future wars might be more a test of national endurance than expected. ▪️ Times • 01:56 Introduction • 04:01 Sharp and short wars • 09:07 After the first salvo • 12:33 Geography as a predictor • 15:21 Will nuclear deterrence work? • 21:16 “An informationized local war” • 25:13 What matters in protracted wars • 28:59 Innovation and adaptation • 33:51 The role of national leadership in protracted conflict • 38:49 Sino-U.S. competition • 44:50 Absorbing massive casualties • 48:06 Polybius Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Alexander Mikaberidze, Professor of History and Ruth Herring Noel Endowed Chair at Louisiana State University and author of The Napoleonic Wars: A Global History, joins the show to talk about director Ridley Scott’s Napoleon. ▪️ Times • 02:54 Introduction • 04:52 First reactions • 08:18 Joaquin Phoenix as Napoleon • 15:12 Propaganda of the time • 17:14 No invention needed • 21:22 Wellington and Talleyrand • 23:24 Napoleon: Master Tactician • 27:35 Waterloo • 33:45 Josephine and Elba • 35:44 More Napoleon content Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Nicholas Morton, associate professor of history at Nottingham Trent University and author of The Mongol Storm: Making and Breaking Empires in the Medieval Near East, joins the show to talk about the Mongol invasions. ▪️ Times • 01:40 Introduction • 02:15 Central Asia before the Mongols • 04:15 Mongol methods • 09:15 Sailing the Eurasian Steppe • 13:54 Temujin • 18:38 A dearth of sources • 21:50 Khwarazmian Empire • 26:40 The Mongol secret • 32:03 Selective savagery • 36:30 The Near East • 40:15 Mamluks • 42:03 Mongol rule • 45:17 Lasting effects

Matthew Waxman, Liviu Librescu Professor of Law at Columbia Law School, joins the show to talk about what’s lawful on the battlefield, what’s not, and how the laws of war apply to Israel and Hamas. ▪️ Times • 01:49 Introduction • 02:25 What is the law of war? • 05:05 How does it all work? • 08:15 What does it matter? • 11:06 A rule of law society • 12:16 10/7 • 15:14 Military necessity vs humanitarian interest • 19:54 Bright line rules • 25:23 Reasonableness • 28:07 Sieges • 32:30 Weaponizing the law • 36:34 Perverse incentives • 39:09 How does the law evolve? Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Edward Luttwak, strategist and co-author of The Art of Military Innovation: Lessons from the Israel Defense Forces, joins the show to talk about the research and development methods of the IDF and events on the ground in Israel. ▪️ Times • 01:51 Introduction • 03:05 R&D the IDF way • 21:30 Evaluating Israel’s strategy • 25:30 Stopping the clock • 29:51 Downside of discipline • 34:07 Macro-innovation • 39:26 Iran • 43:21 Qatar Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Vincent O’Hara and Trent Hone, naval historians and co-editors of Fighting in the Dark: Naval Combat at Night, 1904-1944, join the show to talk about how naval warfare was transformed by technology that made possible night combat at sea. ▪️ Times • 02:01 Introduction • 03:35 Night combat pre-19th century • 06:02 Why do we fight at night? • 09:30 Getting close in • 13:47 Different approaches • 19:28 German naval thinking pre-WWI • 22:05 Jutland and after • 27:09 Theory vs. experience • 32:04 Japanese success at night • 37:59 The Italian navy • 40:52 Long range torpedoes • 45:27 Changes in command expectations • 49:44 Dealing with technological changes today • 52:36 Is the U.S. Navy the “best”? Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Rich Goldberg, senior advisor at Foundation for Defense of Democracies and co-host of Jewish Insider’s Limited Liability podcast, joins the show to talk about the war in Israel, Iran’s objectives, and America’s. ▪️ Times • 01:41 Introduction • 02:22 Sit Rep 10/23 • 12:05 Confused messaging from Washington • 20:21 Too clever by half • 24:54 Owner operated proxies? • 32:40 What does Iran want • 35:51 Volatile Israeli politics • 40:52 Dancing to the enemy tune • 42:51 The cost of being America’s ally • 44:25 Deterrence Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Jonathan Schanzer, senior vice president for research at Foundation for Defense of Democracies, joins the show to talk about the state of the war in Israel, the history of Hamas and its campaign to eradicate the Jewish state, and Israel’s plans to end the cycle forever. ▪️ Times • 01:41 Introduction • 02:24 The situation today • 04:55 Gaza’s terrain • 09:27 Focusing on the north • 12:51 Gaza in Arab politics • 18:41 Iranian support • 25:41 Walls can work both ways • 29:00 Israeli objectives • 35:56 Strategic goals and military means • 41:38 Dancing to an Iranian tune • 46:01 Working against the clock • 49:06 Staying informed To read the WSJ article discussed today click here Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Michael Doran, senior fellow and director of the Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East at the Hudson Institute, joins the show to talk about Iran-backed Hamas’ savage attack on Israel, how we can expect Israel to act in Gaza, prospects for escalation, and the echoes of 1973. ▪️ Times • 02:33 Introduction • 03:16 10/7 • 08:51 Potential Israeli objectives in Gaza • 20:18 A regional war? • 27:20 Iranian objectives • 34:28 Intelligence failures, operational catastrophes • 42:11 Redeployments • 44:45 Parallels with the Yom Kippur War • 51:07 America and Israel today To read the article discussed today click here Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Cliff May, founder and president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, joins the show to talk about the neo-imperialism of America’s adversaries and what defending democracy requires. ▪️ Times • 02:22 Introduction • 02:39 Taking on Jon Stewart • 06:50 Starting in the Soviet Union • 12:26 Policy activism • 20:11 Foundation for Defense of Democracies • 26:31 Ending tyranny • 34:53 The people have to want it • 41:05 Are we misleading ourselves? • 43:23 Cracks in the Axis of Tyrannies • 47:26 Chinese imperialism • 52:35 Understanding ourselves abroad Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Paul Rahe, Charles O. Lee and Louise K. Lee Chair in the Western Heritage at Hillsdale College, and author of Sparta's Sicilian Proxy War: The Grand Strategy of Classical Sparta, 418-413 BC, joins the show to talk about proxy wars, the strategy of Sparta, and the role of regimes in the shaping of foreign policy. ▪️ Times • 01:37 Introduction • 06:43 Donald Kagan • 08:32 The Spartan point of view • 11:59 Why change the perspective? • 17:30 Sparta’s goals • 24:59 Why does Sparta matter? • 31:56 “Putin’s completely irrational” • 33:56 Is Realism dangerous? • 39:17 Why do the Athenians go to Sicily? • 44:35 Alcibiades • 47:06 Could the Athenians have won? • 49:11 The significance of victory Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Andrew Krepinevich, senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and author of The Origins of Victory: How Disruptive Military Innovation Determines the Fates of Great Powers, joins the show to talk about how to interpret and think about military revolutions of the past and how that can help us forecast the shape of war in the future. ▪️ Times • 01:35 Introduction • 02:50 Andy Marshall • 07:45 A diagnostic outlook • 10:11 The military technical revolution • 19:14 How do military revolutions work? • 24:49 Playing catch-up • 27:35 The MRAP question • 33:34 The pace of change • 42:17 Mass and main force • 46:12 What are we not doing that we need to be? Here is a link to the article referenced in the episode - Hudson Institute - Archipelagic Defense 2.0 Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Mick Ryan, Major General (retired) in the Australian Army and author of White Sun War: The Campaign for Taiwan, joins the show to talk about the war today in Ukraine, the potential war in Taiwan, and the changing character of war itself. ▪️ Times • 02:22 Introduction • 05:49 China on Australia’s radar • 11:56 Ukrainian progress • 17:26 Timeframe • 24:00 “We’re helping them tread water. We’re not helping them swim.” • 27:37 What is China learning from Ukraine? • 35:20 Can China pull off its own Operation Neptune? • 41:12 Looking to the past • 44:35 White Sun War • 51:23 Everything new is old Follow along on Instagram http://schoolofwar.substack.com

John H. Maurer, the Alfred Thayer Mahan Professor of Sea Power and Grand Strategy at the Naval War College and contributor to New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to talk about Mahan and his relevance today. ▪️ Times • 01:30 Introduction • 02:06 Mahan struck from the syllabus • 06:30 Early writings • 09:19 Looking out at the world • 12:17 Six elements of seapower • 15:01 Arming for peace • 20:35 Corbett • 22:54 The 18th century • 29:49 A political scientist • 35:10 Where might one go wrong? • 39:03 Free security • 42:26 Who should we be reading? Follow along on Instagram http://schoolofwar.substack.com

Wayne Lee, Bruce W. Carney Distinguished Professor of History at UNC and author of The Cutting-Off Way: Indigenous Warfare in Eastern North America, 1500-1800, joins the show to talk about war in the ‘Eastern Woodlands’, both before and after European contact. ▪️ Times • 01:48 Introduction • 02:50 Coincidences • 07:19 “Woods and rivers, deer and rabbits, corn and beans” • 12:51 Unused land • 19:29 Sacred spaces • 21:56 Strategic objectives • 28:35 Why not occupy? • 32:50 Logistics • 41:57 The role of the prisoner • 49:10 Something like the truth • 54:34 Offense and defense Follow along on Instagram

David Betz, Professor of War in the Modern World at King’s College London, joins the show to talk about what the status of the Ukrainian counteroffensive has to teach us about the enduring relevance of fortifications and the defense as a form of war. ▪️ Times • 02:02 Introduction • 02:16 Modern War • 03:36 Counteroffensive progress • 06:08 Tracking events • 11:08 Russia’s defensive scheme • 23:07 Fortified strategic complex • 32:9 Maginot reconsidered • 40:47 The pendulum • 48:07 What if… To read the article discussed on this episode click the link - Russian fortifications present an old problem for Ukraine - JULY 20, 2023 DAVID J BETZ Follow along on Instagram

Antulio J. Echevarria, General Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research at the U.S. Army War College and a contributor to New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to talk about one of the most influential military thinkers of the modern age, Antoine-Henri Jomini. ▪️ Times • 01:55 Introduction • 02:22 Who was Jomini? • 06:13 A charlatan? • 08:57 Summary of the Art of War • 11:50 Clausewitz vs Jomini • 14:26 The center of gravity • 16:03 Lines of operation • 21:21 Regard for the enemy • 24:44 Interpreting Napoleon • 28:09 Mahan and Jomini • 30:47 Air power • 31:55 Clausewitz revival • 34:02 Jomini today

Mike Gallagher, U.S. representative for Wisconsin's 8th congressional district and Chair of the House Select Committee on Strategic Competition between the United States and the Chinese Communist Party, joins the show to talk about why the Korean War should be front-of-mind for American policymakers and strategists. ▪️ Times • 02:06 Introduction • 04:05 Wolf-warrior diplomacy • 10:42 A new Cold War • 13:05 T.R. Fehrenbach • 22:25 “This stuff matters” • 25:25 Task Force Smith • 29:44 Route clearances • 31:23 Inchon • 35:06 Truman’s failures • 38:19 Eisenhower brings balance • 42:24 China has gotten stronger Follow along on Instagram And here is a link to checkout the article Aaron and Mike wrote for Foreign Affairs Why America Forgets and China Remembers the Korean War

Mark McGrath and Brian Rivera, hosts of the No Way Out podcast, join the show to talk about strategist John Boyd. ▪️ Times • 02:09 Introduction • 02:59 Who was John Boyd? • 06:03 “40 Second” Boyd • 08:05 Air to air combat • 09:45 OODA Loop • 14:20 Getting inside the enemy’s loop • 18:44 Fast transients • 21:41 Patterns of Conflict • 26:27 Military reformer • 29:46 Blitzkrieg and Entebbe • 37:43 Detractors Follow along on Instagram For more on John Boyd and from Mark and Brian check out the ​​No Way Out Podcast

Aaron O’Connell, Associate Professor of History at the University of Texas at Austin, joins the show to talk about the “founding fathers” of 20th century geopolitical thought: Mahan, Mackinder, and Spykman. ▪️ Times • 01:46 Introduction • 02:20 From Marine to scholar to the NSC • 06:24 Alfred T. Mahan • 12:27 Choke points, decisive battle, and battleships • 15:45 Security through imperialism • 18:08 Chinese Mahanians • 20:33 China’s crowded neighborhood • 21:27 Halford Mackinder • 28:56 Heartland rising • 31:36 Inner and outer crescent • 33:01 Nicholas Spykman • 37:55 The nature of power • 39:03 Containment • 42:11 The American role • 46:22 The path of partnerships Follow along on Instagram

Charles Edel, senior adviser and Australia Chair at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and contributor to New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to talk about one of the founding architects of American foreign policy, John Quincy Adams. ▪️ Times • 01:33 Introduction • 02:20 Democratic strategy • 04:43 Adams • 08:03 Early threats to the Republic • 13:20 A potential challenger to Europe • 18:10 Unity and strength • 25:08 “In search of monsters to destroy” • 30:07 British parallels • 34:11 Slavery • 38:36 Public service Follow along on Instagram

Max Hastings, journalist, military historian, and author most recently of Abyss: The Cuban Missile Crisis 1962, joins the show to talk about the world’s brush with World War III. ▪️ Times • 01:41 Introduction • 01:59 From journalism to history • 07:06 Recollections • 09:40 Castro and the Bay of Pigs • 19:46 Overflights • 26:46 Quarantine and blockade • 33:45 Russian floundering • 35:52 Dealmaking • 40:07 Uncomfortable proximity • 42:36 Spheres of influence Follow along on Instagram

Holger Afflerbach, Professor of Modern European History at the University of Leeds and author of On a Knife Edge: How Germany Lost the First World War, joins the show to talk about the origins of the First World War, how much Germany is to blame, and why the July Crisis of 1914 is relevant in 2023. ▪️ Times • 01:59 Introduction • 02:46 Fritz Fischer • 10:34 1914 and today • 15:24 The Kaiser • 21:54 Bethmann Hollweg • 27:46 Military necessity • 37:25 How did Germany lose? • 44:10 Murderers or sleepwalkers? For context, and a better sense of the events unfolding in 1914, checkout the National World War One Museum Interactive Timeline and Summer 1914 Day By Day. Follow along on Instagram

Mark Galeotti, director of Mayak Intelligence, host of the In Moscows’s Shadow podcast, and author of Putin's Wars: From Chechnya to Ukraine, joins the show to talk about the post-Cold War Russian Armed Forces. ▪️ Times • 02:13 Introduction • 04:26 The peak • 10:04 In decline • 13:04 A day in the life of a ’90s Russian soldier • 16:23 The First Chechen War • 21:17 Putin and Chechnya • 24:42 Russia’s claims • 35:10 Modernization • 40:49 Historical karma in Ukraine • 46:10 Big picture • 48:20 Ukraine’s counter-offensive • 51:49 Wagner and Prigozhin Follow along on Instagram

Hew Strachan, Bishop Wardlaw Professor at the School of International Relations at the University of St. Andrews and a contributor to New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to talk about Carl von Clausewitz. ▪️ Times • 02:10 Introduction • 04:31 Serious-minded • 09:43 On War • 11:54 Deconstruct to construct • 15:19 Distinctions in war • 24:07 The American embrace of Clausewitz • 28:00 Context is everything • 32:14 Politics by other means • 36:24 Clausewitz the Marxist • 40:05 Absolute and Total Follow along on Instagram

Iskander Rehman, Ax:son Johnson Fellow at the Kissinger Center at Johns Hopkins SAIS and contributor to New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to talk about French grand strategy during the 16th and 17th century rivalry between the Bourbons and Habsburg Spain. ▪️ Times • 02:41 Introduction • 04:35 A nagging curiosity • 06:59 Sully at the start • 13:27 The genesis of a struggle • 21:19 French internal cohesion • 26:51 Naval power • 29:28 Religious factions and Richelieu • 32:14 The 30 Years War and France • 36:22 The fruits of disorder • 41:44 Defender of the faith • 44:41 Mazarin • 49:48 Hegemonic France • 53:56 Rapid-fire lessons Follow along on Instagram

Levi Roach, Associate Professor of Medieval History at the University of Exeter and author of Empires of the Normans: Conquerors of Europe, joins the show to talk about the rise, violent spread, and ultimate normalization of the group of Viking raiders know as the Normans. ▪️ Times • 01:25 Introduction • 01:53 Who were the Normans? • 06:40 Transformations • 11:41 Parallel outbursts • 14:35 “If a Frank is your neighbor, he’s not your friend” • 16:01 Towards 1066 • 22:20 Dukes and kings • 26:34 Hastings • 31:42 William’s victory • 36:13 Rule by castle • 39:26 Siege and counter-siege • 41:27 Normans in the Mediterranean • 47:24 “Noteworthy, not unique” Follow along on Instagram

Toshi Yoshihara, Senior Fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, author of Mao’s Army Goes to Sea, and contributor to the New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to talk about Sun Tzu and Mao’s strategic thought. ▪️ Times • 02:14 Introduction • 02:33 Who was Sun Tzu? • 05:38 Spring and Autumn • 08:27 Legitimizing the text • 11:18 Rational analysis • 13:51 Clausewitz versus Sun Tzu • 20:28 A dangerous optimism • 24:40 Shih • 29:59 Mao in ’49 and ’50 • 34:11 Chinese intervention in Korea • 38:36 The origins of Chinese sea power • 43:11 Amphibious operations • 47:33 D-Day without any advantages Andrew Rhodes Map D-Day Invasion compared to potential Taiwan Invasion Follow along on Instagram

Mark Moyar, the William P. Harris Chair of Military History at Hillsdale College, author of Triumph Regained: The Vietnam War, 1965-1968 and contributor to New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to reconsider the history of the Vietnam War. ▪️ Times • 01:53 Introduction • 04:30 Beginnings • 08:43 Early success • 12:23 Fallout from the coup • 14:00 LBJ takes over • 19:06 Domino theory • 22:20 China and Vietnam • 25:40 Buying time • 28:23 Johnson and McNamara • 34:22 Maintaining the shield • 35:53 Westmoreland and attrition • 41:42 South Vietnam • 45:33 Parallels Follow along on Instagram

Carter Malkasian, chair of the Defense Analysis Department at the Naval Postgraduate School and contributor to New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to talk about counterterrorism and counterinsurgency since 9/11. ▪️ Times • 01:39 Introduction • 02:01 From academia to Garmsir • 03:48 Center for Naval Analysis • 05:45 Two faces of the same coin • 08:51 Counterterrorism vs counterinsurgency • 13:00 McChrystal and Petraeus • 16:29 Types of insurgency • 20:34 The Sunni Awakening and the Surge • 24:32 Two different wars • 30:51 Gilding the lily • 37:46 The Obama Administration • 41:42 ISIS • 44:45 Withdrawal deadline Follow along on Instagram

Matthew Kroenig, professor in the Department of Government and the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University and contributor to the New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to talk about one of the most influential strategic thinkers of all time, Niccolo Machiavelli. ▪️ Times • 02:21 Introduction • 03:52 Teaching Machiavelli • 05:38 Machiavelli’s relevance • 07:49 Who was Niccolo? • 10:00 A lasting effect • 12:16 The Art of War • 15:52 A bad reputation • 19:58 A return to republic • 22:25 The Prince • 25:45 An early realist • 30:35 Classical influences • 35:12 Bullish on democracy Follow along on Instagram

John Gaddis, Robert A. Lovett Professor of Military & Naval History at Yale University and a contributor to New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to talk about the foundations of strategic thought. ▪️ Times • 02:01 Introduction • 02:42 Makers of Modern Strategy • 05:21 Democracy and strategy • 07:42 Do authoritarians do strategy better? • 10:32 A guide for future action • 14:19 Grammar and logic • 17:42 Ecological sensitivity • 21:00 Maintain credibility • 23:25 NSC-68 • 28:04 Reactions • 32:18 Self-correction • 37:12 Tolerating contradictions • 41:29 Robert Kagan • 42:43 Intellectual humility Follow along on Instagram

Will Scharf, former federal prosecutor and candidate for Missouri Attorney General, joins the show to talk about how the Chinese Communist Party uses fentanyl as part of a broader strategy to pressure the United States. ▪️ Times • 01:16 Introduction • 02:19 Law enforcement and policy • 04:39 What is fentanyl? • 06:53 Violent Crimes • 09:00 Fentanyl’s strength • 12:02 Fentanyl vs opium • 13:24 Origins • 17:52 China’s role • 21:09 The Opium Wars • 25:41 The Chinese enigma • 34:13 What can we do? • 38:02 The cartels • 41:03 Cui bono?

John Lisle, a historian of science and the American intelligence community and author of The Dirty Tricks Department, joins the show to talk about the World War Two-era Office of Strategic Services and its Research and Development Branch. ▪️ Times • 01:44 Introduction • 02:10 “Wild Bill” Donovan • 05:54 Donovan’s style • 08:53 Stanley Lovell • 12:35 An unconventional training process • 16:40 Explosive pancake batter • 19:24 Limpet mines and Java Man • 23:33 A meaningful legacy? • 27:34 Target: Werner Heisenberg • 31:51 WMDs • 35:40 Truth Serum • 39:02 From OSS to CIA Follow along on Instagram

Peter H. Wilson, Chichele Professor of the History of War at All Souls, Oxford, and author of Iron and Blood: A Military History of the German-Speaking Peoples since 1500, joins the show to talk about Germany, Germans, and German-speakers at war. ▪️ Times • 01:52 Introduction • 03:07 A dominance myth? • 06:58 The Holy Roman Empire • 10:33 HRE longevity • 12:38 The Thirty Years War • 15:31 Westphalia • 21:24 Prussia rising • 24:09 Prussia and Austria • 27:56 Napoleon • 31:43 The Imperial legacy • 34:42 Bismarck’s wars • 37:06 1914 vs 1940 • 40:03 Blitzkrieg

Stephen J. Hadley, National Security Advisor to President George W. Bush and lead editor of Hand-Off: The Foreign Policy George W. Bush Passed to Barack Obama, joins the show to talk about the lasting effects of the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and the Bush administration’s dealings with Russia and China. ▪️ Times • 01:38 Introduction • 02:03 Transitions • 06:41 Russia and China then and now • 08:45 Democratic values and our interests • 15:20 Democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan • 19:39 Missing ingredients in Afghanistan • 24:07 Departing Iraq • 30:05 A better outcome for Afghanistan? • 33:33 Commitments • 38:30 China and Russia from ’01 to ’09 • 44:57 Integrating China into the international system • 47:37 NATO expansion

Michael E. O’Hanlon, senior fellow and director of research in Foreign Policy at the Brookings Institution and author of Military History for the Modern Strategist: America’s Major Wars Since 1861, joins the show to talk about how the patterns of military history can shed light on today’s concerns. ▪️ Times • 01:16 Introduction • 01:50 Military history for the modern strategist • 05:16 Is military history relevant? • 09:05 Lessons from the Civil War • 22:47 Could the South have succeeded? • 27:46 America starts slow • 35:35 MaArthur’s dismissal • 41:16 Could the Korean War have ended earlier? • 45:11 What is our grand strategy?

John Hosler, Professor of Military History at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College and author of Jerusalem Falls: Seven Centuries of War and Peace, joins the show to talk about the wars, and the peace, of medieval Jerusalem. ▪️ Times • 01:26 Introduction • 01:46 Why care about medieval military history? • 07:22 What is it about Jerusalem? • 12:45 Continuities • 16:19 The Byzantines and the Jews • 23:54 The Arabs arrive • 29:42 An “evidentiary problem” • 33:59 Three hundred years of peace • 36:29 Causes of the First Crusade • 40:36 The Crusaders • 42:32 Siege and conquest • 44:23 A Christian city • 47:31 The Crusader States • 49:29 The Knights Templar

Dan Blumenthal and Fred Kagan of the American Enterprise Institute join the show to talk about the three strategies that China can use to seize control of Taiwan. ▪️ Times • 01:40 China’s three approaches on Taiwan • 02:09 Persuasion • 07:35 Complimentary campaigns • 10:34 Dominance of discourse power • 14:40 Talk, talk, fight, fight • 18:45 Coercion • 26:51 Speaker Pelosi's trip to Taiwan • 30:02 Compellence • 35:24 CSIS war game conclusions • 42:33 Fighting for themselves • 46:48 Ukraine or Taiwan, who gets what? • 51:38 Xi Jinping’s dilemma

Steve Kemper, author most recently of Our Man in Tokyo: An American Ambassador and the Countdown to Pearl Harbor, joins the show to talk about the political chaos in Tokyo in the years leading up to WWII and the man that tried to keep the peace, U.S. AmbassadorJoseph C. Grew. ▪️ Times • 01:18 Introduction • 01:50 Who was Joseph C. Grew? • 04:36 Japanese politics in the ’30s • 07:30 Imperial Army vs Imperial Navy • 11:00 First impressions • 17:31 Insurrection • 22:12 Drifting towards war • 26:08 Dynamics in D.C. • 28:24 Appeasement • 35:05 Japan’s plans • 37:40 Embargoes and FDR • 42:48 Distinct parallels

Mike Pompeo, former Secretary of State and Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and author of Never Give an Inch: Fighting for the America I Love, joins the show to talk about American foreign policy and his service in the Trump administration. Watch this video on YouTube. ▪️ Times • 01:13 Introduction • 02:12 Chinese surveillance balloons • 05:01 Chinese espionage “inside the gates” • 07:19 Meeting Xi Jinping • 10:25 “Mushy Middle” diplomacy • 15:58 Republicans and Russia • 20:18 America in the Middle East • 26:00 Why talk to the bad guys? • 31:35 Afghanistan • 33:05 Resetting the conversation on human rights

Sonny Bunch, contributing columnist at the Washington Post and culture editor for The Bulwark, where he hosts The Bulwark Goes to Hollywood newsletter and podcast and Across the Movie Aisle, joins the show to talk about the best American war movies. ▪️ Times • 01:35 Introduction • 02:16 What is a war movie? • 07:55 The Revolutionary War - The Patriot/John Adams • 13:15 The Civil War - Glory/Gettysburg • 16:56 World War I - Paths of Glory/Lawerence of Arabia (Hon. mention: Sgt. York) • 26:30 World War II - Inglorious Bastards/Patton/The Thin Red Line/Greyhound • 36:22 The Korean War - Heartbreak Ridge/The Manchurian Candidate • 41:45 The Vietnam War - Full Metal Jacket (Hon. mention: Apocalypse Now) • 46:10 Post Cold War - Black Hawk Down/Jarhead • 49:00 Post 9/11 - 13 Hours/The Outpost/Generation Kill

Marc Hyden, Director of State Government Affairs at R Street and author of Gaius Marius: The Rise and Fall of Rome's Saviour, joins the show to discuss the life of one of the Roman Republic’s most innovative and controversial generals: Gaius Marius. ▪️ Times • 01:33 Introduction • 01:46 An interest in Rome • 04:06 Growing pains • 06:36 The man born in Arpinum • 09:46 Serving in the legions • 11:37 Jugurtha • 13:25 Roman politics • 20:31 Marius in Numidia • 28:51 Sulla and political reform • 37:06 The Cimbri and Teutones and “Marius’s Mules” • 43:05 Career on the rocks • 49:02 Social War to Civil War • 56:27 “Do you dare kill Gaius Marius?”

James Lacey, the Major General Matthew C. Horner Chair of War Studies at Marine Corps University and author of Rome: Strategy of Empire, joins the show to discuss the grand strategy of the Roman Empire. ▪️ Times • 01:33 Introduction • 01:59 A lover of history • 05:12 The “Plato to NATO” historian • 08:40 Edward Luttwak • 13:20 The Romans “obviously had a strategy” • 21:02 Speaking from historical silence • 26:27 The Republic vs the Empire • 32:50 Cost benefit analysis in Rome • 35:57 Three moments of “muscle change” • 41:33 Unable to adapt militarily • 46:55 Lessons for America

Philip Taubman, lecturer at Stanford University's Center for International Security and Cooperation and author of In The Nation's Service: The Life and Times of George P. Shultz, joins the show to discuss the legacy of American statesmen George P. Shultz. ▪️ Times • 01:52 Introduction • 02:14 First encounters with Schultz • 06:44 An old-fashioned patriot • 10:10 Secretary of State • 15:38 Different approaches to defeating Communism • 20:00 Two sides to Reagan • 26:44 Hawks • 31:05 Schultz, Clark, and Dobrynin • 33:35 Arms control • 38:24 The end of the Cold War • 41:55 Tension as a tool