School of War

Richard Frank, historian and author of Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire and Tower of Skulls: A History of the Asia-Pacific War: July 1937-May 1942, joins the show to talk about the controversial legacy of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. ▪️ Times • 02:05 Introduction • 02:15 Soldier/Lawyer/Historian • 09:19 Early controversy • 14:55 Counting all the dead • 21:54 Contemplating invasion • 30:10 1:1 ratio, recipe for a bloodbath • 38:03 Why unconditional surrender? • 40:48 Two steps to end the war • 46:54 A combination of forces • 51:08 How many bombs? • 54:01 Thinking as your enemy does Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Ronald C. White, Senior Fellow at the Trinity Forum and author of On Great Fields: The Life and Unlikely Heroism of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, joins the show to talk about the hero of Little Round Top, Joshua L. Chamberlain. ▪️ Times • 01:37 Introduction • 01:51 Why Chamberlain? • 09:01 Fighting for the Union • 14:05 The 20th Maine • 18:10 Arriving at Gettysburg • 21:34 The 15th & 47th Alabama • 24:25 “Bayonets” • 29:31 Fighting for Grant • 33:40 Appomattox • 35:53 Home • 29:31 Battle Cry of Freedom Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Rich Goldberg, senior advisor at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, joins the show to talk about the expanding war between Israel and Iran. ▪️ Times • 01:40 Introduction • 03:30 Where things stand • 15:25 Israeli expectations • 24:44 Retaliation • 31:39 Iran’s strategic concept • 36:16 American interests • 44:20 Projection • 50:36 Once Iran has nuclear weapons Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Michael Sobolik, author of Countering China's Great Game: A Strategy for American Dominance and Senior Fellow in Indo-Pacific Studies at the American Foreign Policy Council, joins the show to talk about China. ▪️ Times • 01:38 Introduction • 04:29 Belt and Road • 07:54 The Beginning • 13:12 Chinese imperialism • 20:50 Mackinder’s math • 25:19 Nazi geostrategic thinking • 28:21 Spykman and BRI • 31:42 Imperialism is not a relic • 35:43 Countering China • 40:40 Tracing BRI back to Beijing • 46:55 Keeping Taiwan safe Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

James Holland, author of The Savage Storm: The Battle for Italy 1943 and host of the We Have Ways of Making You Talk podcast, joins the show to talk about the Allied campaign in Italy. ▪️ Times • 02:08 Introduction • 04:23 “No greater moment of human drama…” • 11:08 Why go into Italy at all? • 18:24 Mission to Rome • 29:33 Baytown and Avalanche • 32:10 Salerno • 36:25 rethinking Mark Clark • 40:50 Very hard fighting Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Michael Kofman, Senior Fellow, Russia and Eurasia Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and contributor to War in Ukraine: Conflict, Strategy, and the Return of a Fractured World, joins the show to talk about the operational phases of the war in Ukraine. ▪️ Times • 01:28 Introduction • 02:14 A case of “Two Wars” • 09:37 Operating on assumptions • 14:54 Contingency and structure • 23:41 Figuring things out in the field • 31:22 Cyber is overhyped • 39:56 Achieving a favorable outcome Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Thomas Mahnken, President and CEO of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments and contributor to War in Ukraine: Conflict, Strategy, and the Return of a Fractured World, joins the show to talk about how strategic fallacies have played a role in Ukraine. ▪️ Times • 01:33 Introduction • 02:30 Fallacies of rationality • 05:36 Is war irrational? • 10:02 Germany willed WWI to happen • 15:40 Fallacy of the irrational/hyper-rational adversary • 22:53 Rational/irrational Hitler • 28:09 Wrapped around the rational axle • 30:34 Fallacy of over/underestimating the adversary • 37:53 Losing the contingency • 41:08 Fallacies of interaction • 45:56 Learning but not doing • 50:53 Building defenses against fallacies Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

John Spencer, chair of urban warfare studies at the Modern War Institute and host of the Urban Warfare Project, joins the show to talk about urban combat and how Israel is fighting an unprecedented war against Hamas with justice and humanity. ▪️ Times • 01:50 Introduction • 02:08 Fighting and teaching • 09:31 Changes in urban warfare • 17:14 Terrain still matters • 21:54 Israel’s unprecedented war • 26:11 Learning on the ground • 33:24 Genocide • 43:57 The battle of Manila • 49:41 Suffering is the strategic aim • 51:04 Tunnels • 55:51 Outthinking the enemy Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Frank Gavin, the Giovanni Agnelli Distinguished Professor and inaugural director of the Henry A. Kissinger Center for Global Affairs at Johns Hopkins SAIS and contributor to War in Ukraine: Conflict, Strategy, and the Return of a Fractured World, joins the show to talk about nuclear strategy and the war in Ukraine. ▪️ Times • 01:36 Introduction • 01:53 What are nuclear weapons for? • 04:15 Pervasive but not used • 09:53 Invasion insurance • 17:58 Better to be near-nuclear • 22:26 How might Putin use nuclear weapons? • 26:04 Learning by doing • 33:48 “It’s all happening at once” • 41:31 Rattling the saber works • 48:04 “We will get them back” • 50:07 History and Strategy Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Follow the link to buy the book - War in Ukraine: Conflict, Strategy, and the Return of a Fractured World

Stephen Kotkin, Kleinheinz Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution and contributor to War in Ukraine: Conflict, Strategy, and the Return of a Fractured World, joins the show to talk about the war in Ukraine and what the endgame might look like. ▪️ Times • 02:24 Introduction • 05:09 Four victories • 11:48 “Winning only on Twitter” • 22:36 10/7 and Ukraine • 28:27 Regime change in Russia • 37:03 Keeping allies • 45:24 Renting land armies • 55:01 “European culturally but not Western” Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Follow the link to buy the book - War in Ukraine: Conflict, Strategy, and the Return of a Fractured World

Robert Blackwill & Richard Fontaine, authors of Lost Decade: The US Pivot to Asia and the Rise of Chinese Power, join the show to talk about America’s failed pivot to Asia and why they think it still needs to happen. ▪️ Times • 01:59 Introduction • 03:10 Was the pivot serious? • 07:40 Absent compulsion • 13:25 War in Europe? • 22:46 Changes to the plan • 28:28 A bigger budget • 32:23 Domestic resistance to TPP • 38:25 The ultimate goal • 44:36 Why not regime change in China? • 51:08 Henry Kissinger Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Follow the link to buy the book - Lost Decade: The US Pivot to Asia and the Rise of Chinese Power

Michel Paradis—litigator, national security law scholar, and author of The Light of Battle: Eisenhower, D-Day, and the Birth of the American Superpower—joins the show to talk about D-Day and the man behind the invasion, Dwight Eisenhower. ▪️ Times • 01:49 Introduction • 01:56 “Wildly under appreciated” • 05:17 Upbringing • 11:40 Seeing the world as it is • 15:01 Not that long ago • 22:14 British vs American plans • 32:50 Using strategic advantages • 36:03 Designing D-Day • 46:58 Planning for failure Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Follow the link to buy the book - The Light of Battle: Eisenhower, D-Day, and the Birth of the American Superpower

Nick Bunker, journalist and author of In the Shadow of Fear: America and the World in 1950, joins the show to talk about the first decade of the Cold War. ▪️ Times • 01:36 Introduction • 02:26 Countdown to war • 05:17 Biden and Truman • 09:05 A failure of American policy? • 13:09 Present at the Creation • 21:16 Stalin’s view of the world • 25:50 Stalin and China • 30:44 Developing nuclear thinking • 32:39 Robert Taft • 38:01 No choice but to defend Korea • 46:44 NSC-68 Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Follow the link to buy the book - In the Shadow of Fear: America and the World in 1950

Shane Brennan, Associate Professor of History and Classics at the Asian University for Women in Bangladesh and author of Xenophon's Anabasis: A Socratic History, joins the show to talk about why the Anabasis remains an important part of the Western canon of military writing. ▪️ Times • 01:30 Introduction • 02:05 Dubai to Bangladesh • 05:37 Xenophon’s start • 09:25 Several levels of failure • 12:37 “An exemplary Socratic student” • 14:40 Fighting for the Persians • 17:18 Cyrus the Younger • 20:46 A leader emerges • 29:41 “How was he so right?” • 36:43 Matterhorn • 38:33 Exile • 42:01 An instruction on leadership • 44:16 “There is always something there…” Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Follow the link to buy the book - Xenophon's Anabasis: A Socratic History

Sergey Radchenko, Wilson E. Schmidt Distinguished Professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and author of To Run the World: The Kremlin's Cold War Bid for Global Power, joins the show to talk about the strategic aims of the U.S.S.R. during the Cold War and how the Soviets attempted to run the world. ▪️ Times • 01:17 Introduction • 02:32 A novel argument • 08:36 Power and recognition • 11:51 Who started the Cold War? • 14:55 The American dilemma • 17:09 Fukuyama • 21:21 Nuclear guarantees • 25:16 The shadow of WWII • 29:44 Flippancy and boredom • 32:06 Détente • 32:12 Backstabbing • 37:52 American lecturing • 45:39 Sources of Soviet collapse Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Follow the link to buy the book - To Run the World: The Kremlin's Cold War Bid for Global Power

Mike Gallagher and Matt Pottinger join the show to discuss their recent Foreign Affairs essay on the need for a victory strategy in America’s cold war with China. ▪️ Times • 01:53 Introduction • 03:25 Meeting in Iraq • 07:43 “There are bad guys…” • 13:15 Why detente isn’t working • 23:45 Real statesmanship? • 32:12 Rearm/Reduce/Recruit • 35:20 TikTok Follow along on Instagram Read the Foreign Affairs piece here No Substitute for Victory America’s Competition With China Must Be Won, Not Managed Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Andy Lowery, CEO of EPIRUS and a retired U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander, joins the show to talk about directed energy weapons on the modern battlefield. ▪️ Times • 01:45 Introduction • 02:02 Before EPIRUS • 06:29 Drones on the battlefield • 13:30 Current countermeasures • 19:40 An answer for autonomy • 21:32 How does it all work? • 29:54 Beam specs • 33:45 Sci-fi but familiar • 38:11 Gallium nitride • 40:31 Cat and mouse game Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Iskander Rehman, Ax:son Johnson Fellow at the Johns Hopkins SAIS Kissinger Center and author of Iron Imperator: Roman Grand Strategy Under Tiberius, joins the show to talk about the military career and statecraft of Tiberius and what his career has to teach us today. ▪️ Times • 02:32 Introduction • 03:29 The Pentagon and Rome • 07:29 Why Tiberius? • 15:04 Parallels • 18:26 Germania • 22:38 Roman criticism • 28:03 Auxiliaries and proxies • 32:09 Diplomacy and a recruitment crisis • 34:00 A brilliant military career • 37:17 Force structure • 41:18 Parthian Cold War Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Buy the book here - Iron Imperator: Roman Grand Strategy Under Tiberius

Yaroslav Trofimov, chief foreign-affairs correspondent at The Wall Street Journal and author of Our Enemies Will Vanish: The Russian Invasion and Ukraine's War of Independence, joins the show to talk about the early days of Russia’s war in Ukraine, how the battlefield has evolved, and where the war may be headed. ▪️ Times • 01:48 Introduction • 02:06 Growing up Ukranian • 05:03 The collapse of Kabul • 07:40 Leadership counts • 10:14 Zelensky • 16:20 How did Putin get Ukraine so wrong? • 19:49 Touch and go • 22:45 Draft confusion • 26:09 Battlefield evolution • 30:42 Countermeasures • 34:33 Washington’s tepid support • 38:11 Possible futures • 40:26 Trump Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Buy the book here - Our Enemies Will Vanish: The Russian Invasion and Ukraine's War of Independence

Michael Doran, Senior Fellow and Director of the Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East at the Hudson Institute and co-host of the podcast Counterbalance, joins the show to talk about the Israel-Hamas war and the broader regional competition with Iran. ▪️ Times • 02:04 Introduction • 04:01 Is Hamas winning? • 10:29 Fighting the clocks • 13:10 Defeat from the jaws of victory • 18:24 An Iranian-American conflict • 22:44 Managing decline • 26:40 Lessons not learned • 33:00 The Iranian nuclear umbrella Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Rabbi Shlomo Brody, executive director of Ematai and author of Ethics of Our Fighters: A Jewish View on War and Morality, joins the show to talk about the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas and the Jewish tradition of military ethics. ▪️ Times • 01:28 Introduction • 04:04 Just war • 07:27 The Bible as a framework • 13:34 International service • 18:33 Reprisals • 21:37 Purity of arms • 27:09 Collateral damage • 33:41 International law • 35:48 Proportionality • 39:40 A dangerous ideology Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

David Stahel, associate professor of history at the University of New South Wales and author of Hitler's Panzer Generals: Guderian, Hoepner, Reinhardt and Schmidt Unguarded, joins the show to talk about Heinz Guderian, the myth and the man. ▪️ Times • 01:38 Introduction • 02:57 Diving into the letters • 08:43 Debunking • 15:30 A sinister figure • 19:39 Achtung - Panzer! • 27:37 Guderian the Nazi • 33:42 Poland and France • 45:49 Russia • 50:50 Barbarossa bound to fail? • 54:48 Guderian the chameleon Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Buy the book here - Hitler's Panzer Generals: Guderian, Hoepner, Reinhardt and Schmidt Unguarded

Stephen Robinson, author of The Blind Strategist: John Boyd and the American Art of War, joins the show to talk about Boyd, the man who developed the concept of “maneuver warfare,” and what Boyd may have gotten wrong. ▪️ Times • 01:21 Introduction • 02:24 “A genuine polymath” • 04:20 The OODA Loop • 07:39 J.F.C. Fuller and B.H. Liddell Hart • 13:28 The conventional blitzkrieg • 19:26 Maneuver warfare • 25:01 Cannae • 29:07 Tactical success to operational failure • 34:07 Post-Vietnam U.S. military woes • 37:24 Active defense • 43:31 Skeptical of technology • 48:07 The Defense Reform Movement • 53:50 Iraqi Freedom Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Buy the book here - The Blind Strategist: John Boyd and the American Art of War

Eric Edelman, former Under Secretary of Defense for Policy and Ambassador to Turkey and Finland, joins the show to talk about how nuclear strategic thinking began and how those debates resonate today. ▪️ Times • 01:47 Introduction • 02:45 Oppenheimer’s Borden in reality • 07:00 Brodie and The Absolute Power • 11:12 Deterrence before Hiroshima • 13:15 Blackett and Fear, War, and the Bomb • 19:40 Counter-value vs counter-force • 37:33 Russian nuclear strategy • 42:44 Extended deterrence • 52:37 Pain tolerance Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Rebeccah Heinrichs, senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and the director of its Keystone Defense Initiative, joins the show to talk about the state of U.S. deterrence of Russia, Iran, and China—and what Washington could be doing better. ▪️ Times • 01:42 Introduction • 02:18 Conventional and strategic deterrence • 04:06 A failure of strategic deterrence • 09:38 Integrated deterrence • 13:33 Putin is committed to the bit • 15:36 If Russia wins, what’s it to the US? • 19:16 Options if Russia uses nuclear weapons • 24:06 The pendulum keeps swinging • 28:20 Washington’s confusion regarding Iran and Israel • 31:56 Red Sea adrift • 36:00 China and the rest • 40:01 Pacific flashpoints Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Paul Scharre, Executive Vice President and Director of Studies at CNAS and author of Four Battlegrounds: Power in the Age of Artificial Intelligence, joins the show to talk about how AI will change the battlefield. ▪️ Times • 01:38 Introduction • 01:54 Becoming a Ranger • 03:48 A defining moment • 07:25 A historical parallel for AI • 11:16 Hardware • 14:10 “Taiwan is the Saudi Arabia of chips” • 16:20 Military applications • 19:37 Battle damage assessment and AI tracking • 22:50 Autonomous weapons • 27:50 Legal, ethical, and control issues • 30:08 Battlefield applications • 32:43 Operational ability • 36:51 WMDs • 40:09 Countermeasures • 43:53 Transportable? • 46:40 AI and nuclear weapons Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Buy the book here - Four Battlegrounds: Power in the Age of Artificial Intelligence

Prit Buttar, historian and author of To Besiege a City: Leningrad 1941–42, joins the show to talk about the siege of Leningrad and about the nature of war on the Eastern Front. ▪️ Times • 01:56 Introduction • 02:10 A familiar story • 06:09 Themes of the Eastern Front • 13:19 From Tsar to Stalin to Putin • 11:10 Barbarosa • 19:45 An immense scale • 27:29 Doctrinal failure • 33:17 Inside the Russian mindset • 37:21 The myth of the “Clean Wehrmacht” • 40:20 The siege • 49:15 Who stays? • 51:18 How did the Germans fail? • 01:03:25 Staying vigilant Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Buy the book here - To Besiege a City: Leningrad 1941–42

Thomas Mahnken, President and Chief Executive Officer of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, joins the show to talk about net assessment and the future of war. ▪️ Times • 01:39 Introduction • 02:02 An interesting journey • 03:33 The Office of Net Assessment • 09:49 A tool, not a solution • 13:19 Both quantity and quality matter • 15:05 Soviet thinking • 19:20 Leveraging insight • 23:11 Potential outcomes • 28:35 “The Houthis have friends.” • 33:19 Danger and opportunity • 37:20 The terms of success change • 43:14 Solving the problem of the moment Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

John Noonan, senior advisor at POLARIS National Security, joins the show to talk about all things nuclear; the life of a missileer, the current U.S. arsenal and its production problems, the strategy of deterrence, and how Congressional oversight helps/hinders good government. ▪️ Times • 01:34 Introduction • 02:04 VMI and the Air Force • 05:13 Missileers • 11:25 Targets of significance • 16:33 Atrophy • 22:18 Production problems • 27:46 Congressional oversight • 34:30 An unfocused military • 44:17 Not getting it done • 47:05 “Raw and abject stupidity” Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Donald L. Miller, historian and author of Masters of the Air: America's Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany, the book behind Apple TV+’s Masters of the Air, joins the show to talk about the air war over Europe during WWII. ▪️ Times • 01 :41 Introduction • 02:12 Growing up “surrounded by the war” • 15:35 Both sides are losing • 25:23 Highest percentage of casualties • 34:36 Mass vs mass • 37:20 A new battlefield • 42:49 “Almost nothing held up.” • 44:46 Robert Rosenthal • 48:57 Working with Tom Hanks • 53:51 Recreating air combat • 56:02 Gil Cohen, Greyhound, and Das Boot • 59:44 Narrative choices • 01:06:36 The stress of command Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack Buy the book here - Masters of the Air: America's Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany

John Orloff, creator, writer and co-executive producer of Apple TV+’s Masters of the Air, joins Aaron to talk about the new show highlighting the WWII experiences of the men of the 100th Bomb Group, a part of the 8th Air Force’s strategic bombing campaign over Europe. Masters of the Air streams January 26th only on Apple TV+. ▪️ Times 02:25 Introduction 03:00 Getting started 05:45 Band of Brothers 12:56 Finding the story 19:44 Masters of the Air 24:37 Core characters 30:12 Group level 32:11 Influences 37:38 Production challenges 40:25 Procedure as drama 43:50 Unique trauma 48:20 Casting Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

John McManus, author of To the End of the Earth: The US Army and the Downfall of Japan, 1945 and host of the We Have Ways of Making You Talk in the USA podcast, joins the show to talk about why the U.S. Army’s war in the Pacific during WWII merit deeper study and recognition. ▪️ Times • 02:12 Introduction • 03:57 Lessons to be learned • 05:32 The Army from Pearl to Tokyo • 08:50 Winds of change • 14:07 Europe first • 21:16 Taiwan or the Philippines? • 27:55 Battleground Manila • 30:48 Bleeding the Americans • 34:56 Failures in China • 40:33 Chiang Kai-shek • 45:07 Okinawa • 48:06 Operation Downfall • 52:24 Revisionist and reductionist history • 55:19 Required reading Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Dmitry Filipoff, head of online content at the Center for International Maritime Security, joins the show to talk about modern naval tactics and the readiness of the U.S. Navy for a surface engagement with the PLA Navy. ▪️ Times • 01:26 Introduction • 02:48 Evolution in naval warfare • 05:46 Historical comps • 08:01 Lessons from the Red Sea • 09:37 Anti-ship missiles • 12:16 DMO - Distributed Maritime Operations • 15:00 What is the surface Navy’s purpose? • 20:00 Massing fires • 22:33 Defeating missile defenses • 29:25 Scarcity and the network • 34:12 Can the dynamic change? • 37:13 Aircraft carriers • 40:14 Is the U.S. Navy ready? • 44:36 Exercises • 47:51 Institutional knowledge • 49:38 Is the PLAN ready? A FLEET ADRIFT: THE MOUNTING RISKS OF THE U.S. NAVY’S FORCE DEVELOPMENT Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Peter Feaver, Professor of Political Science and Public Policy at Duke University and author of Thanks For Your Service: The Causes and Consequences of Public Confidence in the US Military, joins the show to talk about the state of civil-military relations in America, and to call for a truce on the issue of “wokism.” ▪️ Times • 01:46 Introduction • 2:40 Precedents • 4:18 Citizen soldier to today • 11:40 Expanding fissures • 18:46 Downsides to a high approval rating • 25:04 Isolationism and “wokeness” • 33:56 Sloppy discourse • 38:16 An echo of the ’90s • 41:11 Progress • 48:28 Race/Sexuality/Gender • 55:03 A bit of Sparta in Athens Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Sean Mirski, author of We May Dominate the World: Ambition, Anxiety, and the Rise of the American Colossus, joins the show to talk about how the United States came to its global position and China’s attempts to match it. ▪️ Times • 01:40 Introduction • 2:22 An accidental project • 6:41 The view from Washington • 13:18 American paranoia • 16:43 Post Civil War Mexico • 22:04 Smedley Butler • 24:46 The problem of order • 31:12 After WWI • 33:04 Strategic vulnerabilities • 38:32 Regional hegemony • 44:51 A desire to dominate • 48:36 A lesson and a warning Here is a link to the article discussed today Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Paul Edgar, Executive Director of the Clements Center for National Security at the University of Texas-Austin, a veteran of the U.S. Army, and a scholar of ancient Near Eastern warfare, joins the show to talk about war and peace in the old days—the very old days. ▪️ Times • 02:58 Introduction • 10:07 Olmsted • 16:00 The Bronze Age • 22:07 Verifying history • 27:12 Idrimi • 35:03 How did they fight? • 39:46 Tactics of the time • 42:34 Continuities in geopolitics Here is a link to the article discussed today Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Iskander Rehman, Ax:son Johnson Fellow at SAIS’s Kissinger Center and author of Planning for Protraction: A Historically Informed Approach to Great-power War and Sino-US Competition, joins the show to talk about how future wars might be more a test of national endurance than expected. ▪️ Times • 01:56 Introduction • 04:01 Sharp and short wars • 09:07 After the first salvo • 12:33 Geography as a predictor • 15:21 Will nuclear deterrence work? • 21:16 “An informationized local war” • 25:13 What matters in protracted wars • 28:59 Innovation and adaptation • 33:51 The role of national leadership in protracted conflict • 38:49 Sino-U.S. competition • 44:50 Absorbing massive casualties • 48:06 Polybius Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Alexander Mikaberidze, Professor of History and Ruth Herring Noel Endowed Chair at Louisiana State University and author of The Napoleonic Wars: A Global History, joins the show to talk about director Ridley Scott’s Napoleon. ▪️ Times • 02:54 Introduction • 04:52 First reactions • 08:18 Joaquin Phoenix as Napoleon • 15:12 Propaganda of the time • 17:14 No invention needed • 21:22 Wellington and Talleyrand • 23:24 Napoleon: Master Tactician • 27:35 Waterloo • 33:45 Josephine and Elba • 35:44 More Napoleon content Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Nicholas Morton, associate professor of history at Nottingham Trent University and author of The Mongol Storm: Making and Breaking Empires in the Medieval Near East, joins the show to talk about the Mongol invasions. ▪️ Times • 01:40 Introduction • 02:15 Central Asia before the Mongols • 04:15 Mongol methods • 09:15 Sailing the Eurasian Steppe • 13:54 Temujin • 18:38 A dearth of sources • 21:50 Khwarazmian Empire • 26:40 The Mongol secret • 32:03 Selective savagery • 36:30 The Near East • 40:15 Mamluks • 42:03 Mongol rule • 45:17 Lasting effects

Matthew Waxman, Liviu Librescu Professor of Law at Columbia Law School, joins the show to talk about what’s lawful on the battlefield, what’s not, and how the laws of war apply to Israel and Hamas. ▪️ Times • 01:49 Introduction • 02:25 What is the law of war? • 05:05 How does it all work? • 08:15 What does it matter? • 11:06 A rule of law society • 12:16 10/7 • 15:14 Military necessity vs humanitarian interest • 19:54 Bright line rules • 25:23 Reasonableness • 28:07 Sieges • 32:30 Weaponizing the law • 36:34 Perverse incentives • 39:09 How does the law evolve? Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Edward Luttwak, strategist and co-author of The Art of Military Innovation: Lessons from the Israel Defense Forces, joins the show to talk about the research and development methods of the IDF and events on the ground in Israel. ▪️ Times • 01:51 Introduction • 03:05 R&D the IDF way • 21:30 Evaluating Israel’s strategy • 25:30 Stopping the clock • 29:51 Downside of discipline • 34:07 Macro-innovation • 39:26 Iran • 43:21 Qatar Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Vincent O’Hara and Trent Hone, naval historians and co-editors of Fighting in the Dark: Naval Combat at Night, 1904-1944, join the show to talk about how naval warfare was transformed by technology that made possible night combat at sea. ▪️ Times • 02:01 Introduction • 03:35 Night combat pre-19th century • 06:02 Why do we fight at night? • 09:30 Getting close in • 13:47 Different approaches • 19:28 German naval thinking pre-WWI • 22:05 Jutland and after • 27:09 Theory vs. experience • 32:04 Japanese success at night • 37:59 The Italian navy • 40:52 Long range torpedoes • 45:27 Changes in command expectations • 49:44 Dealing with technological changes today • 52:36 Is the U.S. Navy the “best”? Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Rich Goldberg, senior advisor at Foundation for Defense of Democracies and co-host of Jewish Insider’s Limited Liability podcast, joins the show to talk about the war in Israel, Iran’s objectives, and America’s. ▪️ Times • 01:41 Introduction • 02:22 Sit Rep 10/23 • 12:05 Confused messaging from Washington • 20:21 Too clever by half • 24:54 Owner operated proxies? • 32:40 What does Iran want • 35:51 Volatile Israeli politics • 40:52 Dancing to the enemy tune • 42:51 The cost of being America’s ally • 44:25 Deterrence Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Jonathan Schanzer, senior vice president for research at Foundation for Defense of Democracies, joins the show to talk about the state of the war in Israel, the history of Hamas and its campaign to eradicate the Jewish state, and Israel’s plans to end the cycle forever. ▪️ Times • 01:41 Introduction • 02:24 The situation today • 04:55 Gaza’s terrain • 09:27 Focusing on the north • 12:51 Gaza in Arab politics • 18:41 Iranian support • 25:41 Walls can work both ways • 29:00 Israeli objectives • 35:56 Strategic goals and military means • 41:38 Dancing to an Iranian tune • 46:01 Working against the clock • 49:06 Staying informed To read the WSJ article discussed today click here Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Michael Doran, senior fellow and director of the Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East at the Hudson Institute, joins the show to talk about Iran-backed Hamas’ savage attack on Israel, how we can expect Israel to act in Gaza, prospects for escalation, and the echoes of 1973. ▪️ Times • 02:33 Introduction • 03:16 10/7 • 08:51 Potential Israeli objectives in Gaza • 20:18 A regional war? • 27:20 Iranian objectives • 34:28 Intelligence failures, operational catastrophes • 42:11 Redeployments • 44:45 Parallels with the Yom Kippur War • 51:07 America and Israel today To read the article discussed today click here Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Cliff May, founder and president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, joins the show to talk about the neo-imperialism of America’s adversaries and what defending democracy requires. ▪️ Times • 02:22 Introduction • 02:39 Taking on Jon Stewart • 06:50 Starting in the Soviet Union • 12:26 Policy activism • 20:11 Foundation for Defense of Democracies • 26:31 Ending tyranny • 34:53 The people have to want it • 41:05 Are we misleading ourselves? • 43:23 Cracks in the Axis of Tyrannies • 47:26 Chinese imperialism • 52:35 Understanding ourselves abroad Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Paul Rahe, Charles O. Lee and Louise K. Lee Chair in the Western Heritage at Hillsdale College, and author of Sparta's Sicilian Proxy War: The Grand Strategy of Classical Sparta, 418-413 BC, joins the show to talk about proxy wars, the strategy of Sparta, and the role of regimes in the shaping of foreign policy. ▪️ Times • 01:37 Introduction • 06:43 Donald Kagan • 08:32 The Spartan point of view • 11:59 Why change the perspective? • 17:30 Sparta’s goals • 24:59 Why does Sparta matter? • 31:56 “Putin’s completely irrational” • 33:56 Is Realism dangerous? • 39:17 Why do the Athenians go to Sicily? • 44:35 Alcibiades • 47:06 Could the Athenians have won? • 49:11 The significance of victory Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Andrew Krepinevich, senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and author of The Origins of Victory: How Disruptive Military Innovation Determines the Fates of Great Powers, joins the show to talk about how to interpret and think about military revolutions of the past and how that can help us forecast the shape of war in the future. ▪️ Times • 01:35 Introduction • 02:50 Andy Marshall • 07:45 A diagnostic outlook • 10:11 The military technical revolution • 19:14 How do military revolutions work? • 24:49 Playing catch-up • 27:35 The MRAP question • 33:34 The pace of change • 42:17 Mass and main force • 46:12 What are we not doing that we need to be? Here is a link to the article referenced in the episode - Hudson Institute - Archipelagic Defense 2.0 Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack

Mick Ryan, Major General (retired) in the Australian Army and author of White Sun War: The Campaign for Taiwan, joins the show to talk about the war today in Ukraine, the potential war in Taiwan, and the changing character of war itself. ▪️ Times • 02:22 Introduction • 05:49 China on Australia’s radar • 11:56 Ukrainian progress • 17:26 Timeframe • 24:00 “We’re helping them tread water. We’re not helping them swim.” • 27:37 What is China learning from Ukraine? • 35:20 Can China pull off its own Operation Neptune? • 41:12 Looking to the past • 44:35 White Sun War • 51:23 Everything new is old Follow along on Instagram http://schoolofwar.substack.com

John H. Maurer, the Alfred Thayer Mahan Professor of Sea Power and Grand Strategy at the Naval War College and contributor to New Makers of Modern Strategy, joins the show to talk about Mahan and his relevance today. ▪️ Times • 01:30 Introduction • 02:06 Mahan struck from the syllabus • 06:30 Early writings • 09:19 Looking out at the world • 12:17 Six elements of seapower • 15:01 Arming for peace • 20:35 Corbett • 22:54 The 18th century • 29:49 A political scientist • 35:10 Where might one go wrong? • 39:03 Free security • 42:26 Who should we be reading? Follow along on Instagram http://schoolofwar.substack.com