Saved by the City

What's spookier than a coffee hour full of strangers? Katelyn is on the road toward the midwest and a new city means a new church. But how to find the perfect match? It's no easy task and Roxy is here to help — with a super clarifying set of potential church scenarios. Red light: flee and don't look back. Yellow light: take a beat. Green light: go forth in peace. But, for real, what is it people look for when they look for a church? What makes a church good? We are joined this week by veteran religion reporter Adelle M. Banks who shares insights she's gleaned from congregations around the country who are trying to answer those questions — for today and tomorrow. GUEST: Adelle M. Banks is the projects editor and a national reporter for RNS. An award-winning journalist, Adelle is the co-author of “Becoming a Future-Ready Church: 8 Shifts to Encourage and Empower the Next Generation of Leaders.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you've "deconstructed" from evangelicalism — or any faith tradition — you know that as your faith has evolved your practices have shifted too. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore what it means to find ways to engage with God, with church and with spiritual practices that feel honest and life giving in this, ahem, season (you can take the girl out of evangelicalism but ...). We are joined by musician — and friend! — Jayne Sugg, whose new album "Belief Is Hard" is a beautiful exploration of her own "faith renaissance." GUEST: Jayne Sugg is a New Mexico transplant in New York City. She is a singer and songwriter and a teacher by day. She leads worship and is a member of The Good Shepherd Collective, "a diaspora of musicians who are committed to writing and making music about peace, love, and acceptance." Check out her debut album, Belief Is Hard, wherever you listen to your music! Songs from Jayne's album are used on this episode with her permission. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this era of political extremes, few of us have gone untouched by polarization. We've had family fights, friendship rifts and, for some, church splits. When did politics become so central, so essential? Is this what idolatry looks like? In these last remaining weeks before America's presidential election, Katelyn and Roxy talk with former Republican darling (turned GOP pariah), Nancy French, about the personal cost of putting politics first. Nancy shares her own story of being disowned by many of her friends after she denounced Trump — and how her faith has sustained her on what's been a lonely journey. GUEST: Nancy French is a New York Times bestselling ghostwriter and now the author of her personal memoir, “Ghosted: An American Story.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's our first live episode, coming to you from Religion News Service's 90th anniversary symposium and gala (90 years!) in the heart of Manhattan. Our live audience has cocktails, so grab a drink and settle in as we test our audience's NYC knowledge, reflect on the past and future of Saved By the City, and quiz our guests to discover just how deep their religion nerdery goes. It's Saved By the City — live from New York! GUESTS: Simran Jeet Singh is is Assistant Professor of Interreligious Histories at Union Theological Seminary and Senior Advisor for the Aspen Institute’s Religion and Society Program, an RNS columnist, and author of the book “The Light We Give: How Sikh Wisdom Can Transform Your Life.” Richa Karmarkar is a RNS national reporter covering all things Hindu. She is a graduate of Columbia University with Master’s degrees in Religion and in Journalism. She also holds three Bachelor’s degrees in Religious Studies, History, and Journalism from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Nancy French is a New York Times bestselling ghostwriter and now the author of her personal memoir, "Ghosted: An American Story." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The American Church's relationship with sex has always been a little complicated, but it got a lot more complicated with the explosive popularity of Stephen Arterburn and Fred Stoeker's Every Man's Battle, which trained a generation of Christian men to see themselves as dormant predators and women as their natural enemies. Now, Sheila Wray Gregoire joins Tyler to put Every Man's Battle to the test, and weigh the book's findings against what we actually know about women, sex and purity culture. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We've long admired the kind of radical, intentional community that requires its members to make real commitments and sacrifices — and that holds out a vision of Christian ethics built on Jesus' sermon on the mount. Maybe we've even idealized it. In this episode, Katelyn and Roxy hear from journalist Eliza Griswold about the fate of just such a community and what happened when America's wider societal fractures found them. Plus, we go on an eras tour through our various Christian phases. GUEST: Eliza Griswold is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and poet. She is a contributing writing for The New Yorker and directs the Program in Jouranlism at Princeton University. She is the author of "Circle of Hope: A Reckoning with Love, Power, and Justice in an American Church." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You know that feeling when you have just SO. MUCH. TO. SAY about a particular current event but your podcast is on summer break?? Yeah, it's the worst. Silver lining? We've been saving up that snark for months. So, here goes, why did JD Vance's comments about how childless cat ladies are ruining America hurt our feelings? You could probably guess but wouldn't it be more fun to listen to the episode? Plus, some summer reminiscing. And Katelyn and Roxy ask the church: how are you elevating and including the childless (cat ladies or otherwise)? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the '00s, America was introduced to J.D. Vance, who pitched himself as a middle man between coastal elites and the rural white Americans he'd been raised around. Hillbilly Elegy was part memoir/part explainer and, at the time, seemed to establish Vance as a moderate conservative who wanted to bridge the partisa cultural, political and religious divide. In this episode, Tyler and journalist/critic Sam Thielman explore Hillbilly Elegy and chart Vance's strange, subsequent journey to becoming Donald Trump's running mate. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week we’re wrapping up the special SBTC summer series, “Tell Katelyn What to Do with Her Life,” and Katelyn’s going out with a bang by asking the Beaty Brain Trust about the joys and challenges of parenthood. SBTC diehards will likely remember Roxy and Katelyn’s great conversation with Annie Parsons last fall. Annie shared her journey of becoming a single mother by choice. At the time, Roxy and Katelyn agreed they wouldn’t likely go down the path as single people. We reserve the right to change our minds (and marital status!). This week, Katelyn wonders aloud what it might be like to become a mom as a single person. Once again she’s joined by author and podcaster Elizabeth Oldfield, who reminds us all that we’re called to relinquish some control and let life unfold for the mysterious gift it is. (Bonus: We have POETRY.) GUESTS: The Beaty Brain Trust: Richard Clark; Sarah Scherf; Chuck DeGroat; E. Karen and Tim Beaty; Roxy Stone Elizabeth Oldfield is author of the book Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times and hosts The Sacred podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Meeting a man. Moving apartments. Literally just moving. Maybe it’s a product of living in NYC, but it seems like you can’t walk outside your door these days without dropping mad cash. It has recently occurred to Katelyn that, whatever big life decisions she makes, they will assuredly require some financial investment. Experts say by age 40, you should have an emergency fund, be debt-free, and have a retirement nest egg. Gulp. That’s why episode 3 of the SBTC summer series, “Tell Katelyn What to Do with Her Life,” is about the thing we’re not supposed to talk about (besides religion and politics): money. Thankfully, there’s nothing more Amber Hacker, CFO of Interfaith America and fellow RNS podcast host, likes to discuss. Katelyn also fields financial advice from her 4-year-old nephew and brings back Elizabeth Oldfield for a spiritual slant on the topic the Bible talks about the most. GUESTS: Luther Beaty is unofficial CEO of the Beaty family and is passionate about Legos, fighting baddies, and hanging out with his Aunt Kiki Amber Hacker, aka the “Budget Hacker,” is CFO of Interfaith America and co-hosts the podcast Money, Meet Meaning Elizabeth Oldfield is author of the book Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times and hosts The Sacred podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Behold…the power of man-ifesting. She’s been on the apps. She’s been to church events. She even went to a speed dating mixer with Roxy back in the day. So maybe it’s time Katelyn mix up her straight in her search for romance. Manifesting—the belief that our thoughts determine our futures—grows out of the positive thinking movement and has a distinctly American bent. Is it all hooey, or is there something to it? In episode 2 of our SBTC summer series, Katelyn asks the Beaty Brain Trust for tips and tricks on finding romance. Then she hits the streets of New York City to see if this whole manifesting idea has any merit. (Hint: It ends in a bar called “Up Stairs,” with a free drink and some chicken tendies.) She also welcomes back Elizabeth Oldfield for a conversation on finding God amid longings deferred. GUESTS: • The Beaty Brain Trust: Richard Clark; Chuck DeGroat; Sarah Baldwin Scherf; E. Karen and Tim Beaty; and Roxy Stone • Elizabeth Oldfield is author of the book Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times and hosts The Sacred podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Remember when people used to throw “over the hill” parties when folks turned 40? Katelyn doesn’t feel over the hill, but she’s also aging out of the young adult church group, if you know what we mean. A milestone birthday is a great time to reflect on the life you’ve built and the person you’re becoming and want to become. That’s what this SBTC special summer series is all about. We’re calling it: “Tell Katelyn What to Do with Her Life.” Katelyn has gathered the Beaty Brain Trust to help her find answers in four key areas of discernment. This first week, she’s asking, “Where should I live?” She’s joined by family and friends as well as author and podcaster Elizabeth Oldfield (who has the best British accent) to imagine what life might be like beyond New York City, and how to build a rich life with others wherever you end up. GUESTS: The Beaty Brain Trust: Richard Clark; Chuck DeGroat; Sarah Baldwin Scherf; E. Karen and Tim Beaty; and Roxy Stone Elizabeth Oldfield is author of the book Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times and hosts The Sacred podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the late '80s, a historical romance pro named Francine Rivers became a Christian, and decided to combine her creative interests with her newfound faith. The result is Redeeming Love, a runaway hit that repackaged a few verses from the Book of Hosea into a historical romance complete with trauma, betrayal, sex and more trauma. Tyler is joined by novelist Liz Riggs (who is, full disclosure, also his wife) to break down bodice-ripping, slut-shaming epic. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After you have spent most of your adult life single, as we have, you recognize the importance of building a network of friends who are more than just brunch buddies. You need those friends who send you soup when you're sick and offer their couch for days on end after a breakup and are more than happy to sit in the hospital waiting room while you recover from anesthesia. When you're married, these are the expected role of the spouse, but that's not the reality for many of us today. And maybe it was always too much for one person to bear anyway. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy take another look at the early church in Acts and ask: What if they had it right all along and why have we so persistently ignored their model? Plus, we talk with Rhaina Cohen and imagine what it could look like to elevate the role of friendship in our lives. GUEST: Rhaina Cohen is a journalist based in D.C. and the author of the bestselling book "The Other Significant Others: Reimagining Life With Friendship at the Center," and a producer and editor for NPR’s "Embedded." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why is it a tough time to be a pastor? Let's count the ways: a pandemic, a racial justice uprising, an insurrection, hyper partisanship in the pews, cataclysmic global wars. This is not to mention all the normal pulpit pressures, like blurry boundaries, pastoral care, complaining stakeholders, etc, etc. etc. Being a pastor is hard y'all! That's why Katelyn and Roxy wanted to talk with seasoned New York pastor, Rich Villodas, who has been pastoring an incredibly diverse church in Queens for 16 years. We wanted to hear what unique pressures pastors face and how congregants can offer true support. GUEST: Rich Villodas is a life-long New Yorker and the lead pastor of New Life Fellowship in Queens, a multiracial church with more than seventy-five countries represented in its pews. Rich is the author of several books including the forthcoming, "The Narrow Path: How the Subversive Way of Jesus Satisfies Our Souls." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Of course there's one for women, too. In this episode, Katelyn joins Tyler to discuss Captivating, John and Stasi Eldredge's attempt to do Wild at Heart for girls. We dig into the flipside of the evangelical gender binary of the early '00s to explore what the Christian Macho Man playbook meant for all the damsels they were supposed to be rescuing. Also: quite a bit more Lord of the Rings content than we expected! APOCRYFUN returns, now as a monthly series as part of the expanding Saved By the City Auditory Multiverse! On each episode of this show, we talk about a popular, influential — or at least lucrative — Christian book from the 90s or 2000s (you know, our era). We discuss how the book shaped American Christianity, our own personal faith journeys, and how it has aged in our current dystopian Christian Nationalist hellscape. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A dozen religion journalists walk into a karaoke bar... On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy bring you all the hot takes from the world of Religion News Association. And believe you me, there are some real spicy stories to tell. We've got Julie Roys, from the Roys Report, talking investigative reporting on scandalous religion. Kate Shellnutt, of Christianity Today, with a daring provocation. And Sarah Riccardi-Swartz, professor of religion at Northeastern University, delivering the receipts on Eastern Orthodoxy in the manosphere. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A synod on synodality? Sign us up! For the past three years, the global Catholic Church has been undergoing a period of discernment. One of the main issues of contention? Women's ordination. Given our interest in women's leadership in Protestant churches, we've been very curious how that conversation happens on the Catholic side. And now that we seem to have some clarity on where the Church will land on the issue, at least in the near term, we wanted to have RNS's Vatican reporter, Claire Giangravé, give us the inside scoop. Plus, some popcorn with the pope. GUEST: Claire Giangravéis a Rome-based reporter for RNS, covering the Catholic Church and the Vatican. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Limits. Schlimits. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy have a lot to discuss. Like how a certain subset of evangelical Christians decided purity culture was for the birds and swapped it for "real American beauty" (aka: big boobs, apparently?). Or how the KJV is the best complement to the American Constitution (ironic, no?). But, really, we're here to talk limits — and why we're embracing them — with friend and author, Micha Boyett. GUEST: Micha Boyett is an author, youth pastor, podcaster and Down syndrome advocate. She is the author of the new book "Blessed Are the Rest of Us: How Limits and Longing Make Us Whole" and host of the podcast "The Slow Way" and co-host of "The Lucky Few." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you think you’d like the person your parents picked for you? Parents being a part of the dating or courting or marriage process is a pretty old idea that has a history in most cultures. But we’ve dropped it almost completely in the U.S. in favor of finding true love ourselves. In fact, our families — and our churches and our communities and our friends — mostly avoid meddling in our dating lives at all. When did dating get so anonymous? And what have we lost along the way? Those are the questions Katelyn and Roxy tackle in this week’s episode. And they’re joined by Richa Karmarkar, RNS’s Hinduism reporter, who gives a little peek into the revival of Indian matchmaking in the diaspora — with an American twist. GUEST: Richa Karmarkar is a RNS national reporter covering all things Hindu. She is a graduate of Columbia University with Master’s degrees in Religion and in Journalism. She also holds three Bachelor’s degrees in Religious Studies, History, and Journalism from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode, Katelyn and Roxy are joined by the GOAT, the legend who arguably started the spiritual podcasting genre, the longtime host of On Being, Krista Tippett. This wide-ranging conversation lingers on some of the more salient questions of our time: What is the role of faith in a technological era? Does religion only divide? How can spiritual practices make a difference in a world that needs action? GUEST: Krista Tippett is a journalist and Peabody Award-winning broadcaster. She created and hosts the podcast On Being and is the author of several books, including "Becoming Wise." She was awarded the National Humanities Medal by Barack Obama in 2014. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Another year. Another election heckscape. Would you talk politics on a first date? Nope. No, definitely not. What about on a 10th? Heck no. In this economy? Americans are not happy with the political landscape at the moment and the general mood going into the 2024 election is, to put it mildly, dread. We're exhausted and this presidential race is a rinse and repeat cycle that it seems no one really wants. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy wade into the shark infested waters of partisan politics — and, we ask, did we go wrong somewhere? Author Michael Wear joins us to say: yes, we did. But maybe not where you think. Wear challenges us to a more soulful politics that, gasp, takes Christianity seriously. GUEST: Michael Wear is the founder and president of The Center for Christianity and Public Life. He was a former White House staffer under the Obama administration and is the author of "The Spirit of Our Politics: Spiritual Formation and the Renovation of Public Life." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Maybe the real soulmates are the friends we met along the way. As marriage has become the end-all, be-all relationship, friendships have been relegated to the "nice to have" category. But at a time when loneliness is being labeled an epidemic, we wonder if this paradigm hasn't stranded us all on islands of our own making. Katelyn and Roxy look at the significant role friendships have played in our lives — especially as single adult women — and ask how we can continue to cultivate intentional community. We are joined by Laura Tremaine (whose husband is definitely not her best friend) for a look at how different types of friends can contribute to our lives (and us to theirs!). Plus, the 10 things we learned about friendship from TV shows set in NYC. GUEST: Laura Tremaine is the author of "The Life Council: 10 Friends Every Woman Needs" and is the host of the podcast, "10 Things To Tell You." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're all living inside the code. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy recount their brushes with the evangelical bro code — that malignant workplace milieu of religion mixed with patriarchy mixed with entitlement. We discuss the nearly two hundred responses women sent to Katelyn on the topic and unpack the Three B's of the Evangelical Bro Code: Breadwinner Bias, The Billy Graham Rule and Bullying. In the end, we wonder: should women even work in male-led evangelical spaces? Is it worth it? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's poog spelled backward. The wellness industry has scope creep. Is it about health? Self-care? Spirituality? Mud masks? Yes, yes, yes, yes — and so much more. One thing it all seems to have in common though is that it costs money. Marketed primarily to women and promising solutions to every woe, wellness is more in the category of faith than science, but that doesn't keep millions of Americans from seeking their salvation in it ... to the tune of $4.4 trillion a year. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy discuss the appeal of wellness products and the promises they offer — and why they inevitably fall short. Plus, we hear from guest Rina Raphael who, to her surprise, found that organized religion has the corner on the wellness market. GUEST Rina Raphael is a journalist writing on health, wellness, tech, and women’s issues. She is the author of the recent book "The Gospel of Wellness: Gyms, Gurus, Goop, and the False Promise of Self-Care." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Jesus thing always gets in the way. Did you ever think Rob Reiner — director of such favorites as "When Harry Met Sally," "Princess Bride" and "Spinal Tap" — would make a movie about Christian nationalism? Inconceivable, right? Well, that word doesn't mean what you think it means and yes, he did. The documentary, "God & Country," directed by Dan Partland and produced by Reiner, is based on the book "Power Worshipers" by Katherine Stewart and features a who's who of Christian thinkers (left, middle and slightly right of the ever-shifting center). On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk to Partland and Reiner about why Christian nationalism is, in fact, distinct from Christianity. And we wonder when an American flag next to the pulpit crosses over into the danger zone. GUESTS: Dan Partland is a veteran documentary producer and director. He has won two Emmys, for American High and Intervention. Rob Reiner is the acclaimed director for many of America's favorite films, including "When Harry Met Sally," "Princess Bride" and "Stand By Me." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The son has come and you've been ... On each episode of this show, we talk about a popular, influential — or at least lucrative — Christian book from the 90s or 2000s (you know, our era). We discuss how the book shaped American Christianity, our own personal faith journeys, and how it has aged in our current dystopian Christian Nationalist hellscape. In this episode, Roxy reads Left Behind for the first time and reports back to Tyler. We dig into a word salad of eschatological terms and an absolute feast of evangelical 1990s tropes — Californians and their new age mumbo jumbo, amirite? — as we look at the legacy of this apocalyptic juggernaut on evangelicalism and its politics. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are you happy enough? On each episode of this show, we talk about a popular, influential — or at least lucrative — Christian book from the 90s or 2000s (you know, our era). We discuss how the book shaped American Christianity, our own personal faith journeys, and how it has aged in our current dystopian Christian Nationalist hellscape. In this episode, Tyler and Roxy wonder who is the most hedonistic of them all — like, in a Christian sense. In 1986, John Piper wrote Desiring God and introduced the American church to "Christian hedonism," a phrase that has not lasted nearly as long as his famous farewell to Rob Bell. Even so, it was a book that loomed large over Christian publishing and launched Piper as an early voice in the neo-Reformed space. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast will change your life. On each episode of this show, we talk about a popular, influential — or at least lucrative — Christian book from the 90s or 2000s (you know, our era). We discuss how the book shaped American Christianity, our own personal faith journeys, and how it has aged in our current dystopian Christian Nationalist hellscape. In this episode, Tyler and Roxy travel back in time to an era of 5 step growth strategies, acronyms for all things and Hawaiian shirts. AKA Southern California in 2002. It's the year the mega-bestseller Purpose Driven Life hit the shelves and the pews — and everywhere in between — offering a message to counteract middle class ennui and promising eternal significance to boot. How does this apolitical, seeker-sensitive, self-help influenced approach stand up now? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Paintball never looked so holy. On each episode of this show, we talk about a popular, influential — or at least lucrative — Christian book from the 90s or 2000s (you know, our era). We discuss how the book shaped American Christianity, our own personal faith journeys, and how it has aged in our current dystopian Christian Nationalist hellscape. In this episode, Tyler and Roxy become the men God created them to be with Wild at Heart, John Eldredge’s 2001 bestseller that challenged dudes to rock for Jesus and destroy anyone who got in their way. Squint just a little and you can see the direct through line from this book to modern evangelical ideas around gender, masculinity and Jordan Peterson. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cozy up for this time traveling book club. On each episode of this show, we talk about a popular, influential — or at least lucrative — Christian book from the 90s or 2000s (you know, our era). We discuss how the book shaped American Christianity, our own personal faith journeys, and how it has aged in our current dystopian Christian Nationalist hellscape. This episode, Tyler and Roxy move into the liminal faith space of Blue Like Jazz, Donald Miller’s 2003 word-of-mouth bestseller that introduced young Gen Xers and elder Millennial evangelicals to the idea of embracing doubt, being OK with not knowing everything, drinking beer and also Mark Driscoll. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Decadent December is coming to a close and bills are due. Every year, we all get a little excited for what a new start could bring — who could I be this year? Surely this year, I'll do the thing. Or stop doing the thing. Or change everything. Right? When it comes to making goals, setting intentions, naming desires, we're as all-in as anybody ... but we also have a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to the marketing machine that self-help has become. Somehow, we doubt all the wisdom we need is just a scroll away on Instagram. This week, Katelyn and Roxy share the advice that's actually worked and talk with entrepreneur Liz Forkin Bohannon, who swears by "dreaming small" and "owning your average." GUEST Liz Forkin Bohannon is the founder and CEO of Sseko Designs, a socially conscious fashion brand, the chief growth officer of Noonday Collection, and the author of "Beginner's Pluck: Build Your Life of Purpose and Impact Now." Check out her "Plucking Up" podcast, as well. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be good to your people. The holidays are hard for the grieving. This year, as Roxy and her family walk through their first Christmas without her dad, we wanted to do an episode on what has helped get them through. Well, who has helped really. This is an episode on the power of community and friendship when life hands you loss. Katelyn and Roxy are also joined by J.S. Park, a hospital chaplain who has counseled thousands of patients and their families through terminal illnesses, devastating diagnosis, and tragic losses. Plus, a special drop-in from friend of the podcast, Jonathan Merritt. GUEST: J.S. Park is a hospital chaplain and author of of The Voices We Carry. He is working on a econd book, due out in May 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's the new evangelical Vatican y'all. Before there was New York City, both Katelyn and Roxy flirted with Nashville. The draw was real: deep friendship, like-minded value systems, shared faith, the prospect of financial stability. But something never quite clicked. Nashville felt maybe a little ... too comfortable, too safe, even a bit stifling. In this episode, Katelyn and Roxy imagine what could have been. We also do a deep dive into who Nashville has become in our years apart — and how choosing New York City has changed us. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The range of a religion reporter. This week, we ask ourselves: would we do mushrooms for research? Plus, a journey from Kansas to Tennessee to California and their multiple misbehaving men in ministry. Katelyn and Roxy discuss the similarities and patterns present in congregations where clergy can get away with almost anything. And we're joined by guest Gloria Purvis, a Black Catholic scholar who lost her job at a prominent Catholic radio network in 2020 after speaking out about the killings of unarmed Black Americans. Among other things, she discusses why racial justice should be an extension of the church’s holistic pro-life ethic. GUEST: Gloria Purvis is a Catholic commentator and host of the Gloria Purvis Podcast with America magazine and media. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For this Thanksgiving, we return to a favorite episode about food, hosting and the power of conversations around a dinner table. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's a mancession. Or, as one woman put it to our guest today, "men are in their flop era." Men are lagging behind women in almost every measure of success today — from mental health, to education levels, to employment, to sexual satisfaction. What's going on? Katelyn and Roxy are joined (once again!) by columnist and author Christine Emba to discuss this masculinity crisis — and why it should matter to women. Plus: a dudely data dump. GUEST: Christine Emba is a columnist and member of the editorial board at The Washington Post, where she wrote her viral summer column and topic today's episode: "Men are lost. Here’s a map out of the wilderness." She is also the author of the book "Rethinking Sex: A Provocation." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the clock keeps ticking, you gotta get picking ... a sperm donor, that is. Ok, but really, as more and more women are single into their late thirties and early forties, the option to have a child through in vitro fertilization becomes a very live question. As much as forty may be the new twenty, the biological timeline for many women still looms large. If you're someone who wants to bear children, waiting for the right partner may feel like a dead end. Or, as our guest today puts it, that's a lot of pressure for a first date. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk to a friend who made the decision to put dating on hold and become a mother on her own. We discuss process, finances, a bit of theology and a lot of love. GUEST: Annie Parsons gave birth to her baby boy in early October, just a few days after recording this episode. Everyone is healthy and happy and we are overjoyed for this fledgling family. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

But it is better if you get spiritual in the mornings. For a very long time, spending time with God felt a bit like a chore to be checked off. Remember quiet times? One year Bible reading plans? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy discussing finding rhythms and rituals that actually work for connecting with God — no guilt attached. And, bonus, actually became morning people along the way. We can't believe it either! Plus, Karen Wright Marsh helps us find inspiration for our daily devotions from the lives of the saints. GUEST: Karen Wright Marsh is the founding director of Theological Horizons, a ministry at the University of Virginia that hosts lectures, spiritual studies, dialogues, and mentoring initiatives. She is the author of Wake up to Wonder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

"Seek peace and pursue it — especially when it seems impossible." Inspired by these words of his father, our guest today has been working to bring peace in the Holy Land since the early 2000s. The last few weeks have been an onslaught of horrifying news from Israel and Gaza — thousands upon thousands dead, hundreds held hostage, hundreds of thousands displaced. And, here, in America a rush to make sense of it — to clearly name the good guy and the bad guy, to further entrench lines in the sand that are already so deep. Amid the complexities of what many have called an "intractable problem," Katelyn and Roxy look to Greg Khalil, co-founder of Telos Group, an organization that insists you can be pro-Israeli, pro-Palestinian, pro-American and pro-peace. GUEST: Greg Khalil is president and co-founder of Telos Group and an adjunct professor at Columbia University’s Graduate School of Journalism. Before founding the Telos Group, Greg lived in Ramallah, the West Bank, where he advised the Palestinian leadership on peace negotiations with Israel. Visit telosgroup.org for a list of resources on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's on your Jesus Island? Church, God, Christianity — they made up a core part of our identity as kids. In other words, we definitely had a Jesus Island. And, yes, that's a reference to Pixar's highly relatable "Inside Out." This episode of the podcast is full of them. Katelyn and Roxy plumb the depths of their childhood faith and discuss how those core memories continue to shape their faith today (or not!). We are joined by Esau McCaulley who shares some of his core faith memories as a kid, as well as the expectations put on black Christians and how the faith of his forebears set him on the path he’s on today. GUEST: Esau McCaulley is associate professor of New Testament at Wheaton College and a contributing opinion writer for The New York Times. He is the author of the recent memoir "How far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South," and "Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why can't you just let us be happy? Recent internet pile ons have made it clear there are a whole lot of people out there — including some academics and sociologists, as well as all the incels — who believe single women are ruining society. Not an exaggeration. Marriage rates are down, birth rates are down, men are reporting all time lows in mental health and happiness — especially single men — and it's all because women have just gotten too picky. Or that they prefer cats and shakshuka to marriage, or something. In this episode, Katelyn and Roxy take on some perplexingly persistent myths about single women (cat ladies? career women? cold fish?) and why they've taken hold in Christian circles. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And if Russell Moore is a liberal, then what the heck are we? Our first guest for season six has us thinking about institutions. An exciting lead for a season opener, you say? It is! In part because this guest now leads an institution, Christianity Today, that both Katelyn and Roxy have some history with. But, not too long ago, he was an SBC bigwig — the president of its Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission — before, well, a lot of things went down. In 2015 ... and 2016 ... and pretty much every year after that. Check out our extensive coverage at RNS if you somehow missed it all and are curious. On this episode, we talk to Moore about why he left the SBC in 2021; how he thinks of his own legacy in that world, including the question of complicity; and trying to lead a Christian institution when it’s tearing apart at the seams. GUEST: Russell Moore is editor in chief of Christianity Today and is the author of "Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

... and very messy. It's not everyday Saved by the City hosts Katelyn and Roxy get invited to be on documentaries, but it is every Hillsong documentary. The latest documentary treatment of the global megachurch’s descent into scandal recently premiered on FX and Hulu. And it featured our very own Ms. Beaty with some real zingers. It also featured Carl Lentz. Like a lot of Carl Lentz. The disgraced former pastor of Hillsong NYC took center stage once again and not everyone is happy about it. We talk with Janice Lagata, a former volunteer at Hillsong in Manhattan and fellow interviewee for the documentary, about how she felt after watching and why it prompted her to write an open letter to the director. GUEST: Janice Lagata is a musician, writer and host of two exvangelical podcasts: "God Has Not Given" and "Bad Words." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mary, the mentor of Jesus. A lifetime of Bible reading and the women who surrounded Jesus still feel so flat, so much a part of the flannel graph background. Why? In this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore how their perceptions of the women in the New Testament were formed and why it's still so difficult to conceive of them as real, three-dimensional people. They are joined by New Testament scholar, Nijay K. Gupta, who offers more than a few clues about how and why the women around Jesus became side characters. GUEST: Nijay K. Gupta is professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary and author of several books, including his newest, "Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

ENTP! 2 wing 3! Let's talk about you and me! We'll admit, a podcast episode all about our personalities might be a bit self-indulgent. But also fun! So bear with us as we dive headfirst into the various and sundry methods for categorizing oneself. This week, Katelyn and Roxy go old school (Myers-Briggs), new school (StrengthsFinder) and a little woo-woo (Enneagram, just kidding, don't come after us). Plus, a journey into the desert with our spiritual guide — and podcast producer — Jonathan Woodward. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Let's go shatter a glass steeple or two, shall we? When it comes to women in ministry, the gains have been ever so gradual. And at the top levels of leadership — from seminary faculty and deans to senior clergy positions — women seem to have hit a wall. Fewer than 25 percent of seminary faculty and deans are women, as are 11 percent of presidents, according to the Association of Theological Schools. This week Katelyn and Roxy are joined by two of those rarities — the Rev. Drs. Lakeesha Walrond and Serene Jones — who have shattered plenty of stained glass ceilings in their careers. As seminary presidents in New York City, the two are partnering together, hoping to offer more opportunities for future faith leaders. We talk to them about the realities of ministry today, the stakes women in seminary face and why we should actually be worrying about the men. GUESTS: Rev. Dr. LaKeesha Walrond is the first Black woman to serve as president of New York Theological Seminary and a preaching pastor at First Corinthians Baptist Church NYC. Rev. Dr. Serene Jones is the first woman to serve as president of Union Theological Seminary and the author of "Call It Grace: Finding Meaning in a Fractured World." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You sound like your mother. Is an essential project of a daughter's life trying to understand her mother? On this episode of the podcast — on this week of Mother's Day — we reflect on the lessons we learned from our moms, how we saw them as teens, how we see them now (SPOILER: it's changed). Plus, we are joined by Marcie Alvis Walker in a wide ranging conversation about the power of motherhood — for good and ill — and the generational legacies we carry as daughters who sometimes become mothers. And, you might have guessed it, an appearance by Karen & Sharon themselves! GUESTS: Marcie Alvis Walker is the author of the new book “Everybody Come Alive” and is the creator of the popular Instagram account Black Coffee with White Friends. E. Karen Beaty is a retired children’s librarian and early childhood education director. (She is also Katelyn’s mom.) Sharon Stone is a retired pre-K and Kindergarten teacher with more than 50 years’ experience. (And she’s Roxy’s mom.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Two words: chubby bunny. From the games that were downright gross to the Mountain Dew fueled lock-ins, youth group culture was its own special kinda weird. But was it good? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy reminiscence on the lessons we learned as teens in our church basements (we shared a certain oldest daughter perfectionism that youth group culture seemed to heighten, even spiritualize). We're joined by author and researcher Sheila Wray Gregoire who shares some of her findings on how youth group teachings affect teen girls well into adulthood — for better and worse. Plus: news from the Brio beat! GUEST: Sheila Wray Gregoire is the author of several books including "She Deserves Better: Raising Girls to Resist Toxic Teachings on Sex, Self, and Speaking Up," a followup to the "The Great Sex Rescue: The Lies You've Been Taught and How to Recover What God Intended." You can find more of her work at BareMarriage.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's an evangelical origin story. Who are the evangelicals? It's a contested question with a long history of answers — answers that depend largely on who is holding the mic at any given time. In this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy examine our own roles within the traditional gatekeeping institutions of evangelicalism and reflect on how we feel about them now. We are joined by Isaac B. Sharp for a tour of evangelicalism's defining decades and how the movement was shaped in part by who was kicked out. GUEST: Isaac B. Sharp is the author of the book "The Other Evangelicals: A Story of Liberal, Black, Progressive, Feminist, and Gay Christians — and the Movement that Pushed Them Out." He is a visiting assistant professor at Union Theological Seminary and the director of online and part-time programs there. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices