The Power of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy, Metabolomics and the Holobiont

Dr. Sherr believes that Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) -- the administration of 100% oxygen at greater than atmospheric pressure -- is one of the most powerful ways to decreasing inflammation, accelerate wound healing, and optimise both physical and mental performance. He is one of the few HBOT providers in the USA that creates personalised treatment plans for patients that include cutting edge & dynamic HBOT protocols, adjunctive technologies, laboratory testing, and nutritional interventions. Dr. Sherr is the Director of Integrative Hyperbaric Medicine and Health Optimization at Hyperbaric Medical Solutions, in addition to operating his own independent hyperbaric consultation practice and performing in-person consultations in the San Francisco Bay Area (where he lives). Dr. Sherr aims to create access and educate all those who may benefit from HBOT through telemedicine consulting, advocacy, and education practice worldwide. I wanted to share this second episode with Dr Sherr (he was on back in episode 77) to go even deeper into the little known facts about hyperbaric oxygen therapy like making epigenetic shifts, angiogenesis, stem cell production, lymph drainage and how it influences around 8000 genes in the body. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy was a major component in my mother, Isobel's rehabilitation after a devastating brain injury over 4 years ago. Isobel was left with hardly any higher functioning, the brain damage was so severe she was unable to control her body in any meaningful fashion, had virtually no memory, no speech and was let in the . stage of a toddler at the age of 74. But after three months in hospital and after months studying hyperbaric oxygen therapy and searching for somewhere to get her access to it I was lucky enough to find a chamber to use. What followed was in my opinion nothing short of miraculous. and now after thousands of hours of training, combined with supplementation and diet changes and over 250 hyperbaric sessions later. Mum is completely normal again, can walk, read, write, do all her normal daily duties and is living a full life again, her doctor saying is a one in a million comeback story. This is why I was so excited to get one of the worlds leading experts on this therapy to speak on my podcast and to explain much clearer and better than I ever could, just what the mechanisms of HBOT are and the benefits, limitations and research going into this area of medicine. My book "Relentless" which is out now on my website and everywhere good books are sold shares our journey with hyperbaric among other adjunctive therapies. If you or anyone you know would be interested in purchasing a hyperbaric chamber, contact [email protected] for more details.

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible] brought to you by lisatamati.com. Speaker 2: (00:12) Well hi everyone. Fantastic to have you back again on pushing the limits today. I have a fantastic interview with Dr. Scott Scheer, who is a physician out of the United States. Now Scott, Dr. Scott has been on my podcast previously and it was one of the most popular episodes, so I'm really, really privileged to have him back on. Yeah, Dr. Scott is a pioneer in health optimization medicine and in this episode we really going and doing a deep dive into one of my favorite therapies, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, but we're also going to be talking about meta below mix in the hollow biome. Yeah, Dr. Scott is a position certified in the health optimization medicine and in hyperbaric same time and he uses both of these protocols and adjunctive technologies. Uh, he's a father of four and he's an incredible, uh, really outside of the box thinker and I love his approach to his work. Speaker 2: (01:04) So I'm hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Scott shoe. Just a reminder, my book [inaudible] is now out. And, uh, my story with my mom was all, uh, one of the cornerstone therapies was hyperbaric oxygen therapy and I was, it was wonderful to connect with Dr. Scott about that previously and to learn all about hyperbaric. So I hope you enjoy this interview and if you want to grab the book while you're at it, he don't have it to my website, lisatamati.com and there was a lengthier under the shop for the books, so check them all out. Thanks for listening and we'll see you again soon. And now over to Dr. Scott. Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here and very excited to have you on board again today for an exciting episode. I have Dr. Scott Scheer with me who is a hyperbaric specialist, uh, from the States and he is, uh, had been on my show before and he is now coming back on here. It was one of the most popular episodes on the whole show. So I'm really, really excited to have Dr. Scott Beck and he's actually sitting in his own hyperbaric chamber right now and doing the interview from inside his own hyperbaric. So Dr. Scott, how are you doing? Speaker 3: (02:16) I'm doing well. Can you hear me okay, Lisa? Speaker 2: (02:18) Yeah, it's not too bad. We might have to ramp up the volume when we're doing the either thing, but we'll give it a go. See, here we go. Okay, Speaker 3: (02:26) sounds good. Speaker 2: (02:27) I'm sorry. Speaker 3: (02:31) Yes, I'm in my own chamber. I, um, I have my own mild hyperbaric units. Mild hyperbaric therapy is defined as hyperbaric therapy, less than or 1.3 atmospheres or more superficial than that. Um, and so these chambers go to about 15 feet of seawater equivalent. Um, and these chambers are approved for home use. Um, and I use them for a lot of different reasons, but personally I use it for just overall health and wellness, cognitive capacity enhancements, muscle recovery, jet lag, and a couple of other other indications. The chamber is nice because it's a triangular type of chamber, which means that you can actually sit up in it and not have to lie down completely. And I've been using it a lot these days, given pandemics and all those kinds of things and doing my best to stay healthy along with everybody else. At least a lot of other people that are not eating junk food all the time. Speaker 2: (03:32) Yeah. And we'll get into that a little bit later that year. Um, no amount of boy hacking all out to a good dog bed diet. So we definitely need to focus on that. But, so Dr. Scott, so I have my own hyperbaric chamber. I go in and every pretty much, you know, three or four times a week at least my one goes up to 1.5 atmospheres. And, but you also have a clinic that goes, uh, has, um, hyperbaric chambers that go, uh, too high up precious. Can you explain a little bit difference between the mild hyperbaric and the medical grade, if you like hyperbaric sort of things? Speaker 3: (04:09) Yeah, sure. So hyperbaric therapy in the United States is approved for 14 different conditions and all of those conditions have been studied at two atmospheres or greater. And so all the medical conditions for hyperbaric therapy cannot be treated in mild hyperbaric units. They can only be treated in, in units that are more medical grade. The medical grade chambers go down. Uh, there's different types of medical grade chambers. The most common, it's called a motto place or a single unit occupancy chamber. That chamber goes down to somewhere between 2.4 to three atmospheres of pressure. Three atmospheres of pressure is the equivalent of 66 feet of seawater. What's interesting about 66 feet of sea water equivalent is that when they, that's actually where they've done studies showing that at that level you no longer need red blood cells in circulation to get enough oxygen diffused into the plasma where the liquid of your blood at that level and maintain your physiologic functions. Speaker 3: (05:10) So it's a, it's a significant amount of oxygen that we can get into circulation. And so, um, what we're doing in a chamber is obviously driving more oxygen into circulation. And that's kind of like the quick and dirty of what's happening. When you go in there. The heart chambers are typically going down to deeper pressures, um, two atmospheres or above. Mmm. And then the soft chambers, um, depending on the type of chamber you have, it could go down to 1.3. Some of them go to 1.5. It depends on the country and the location. Well, I think what's more important for people is not that type of chamber really. But because some soft chambers can actually go to very deep pressures and heart chamber go to any pressure, they can go to superficial chamber pressures and they can go to deep pressure. What's most important, I think is knowing is treated or what the difference in treatments is depending on the pressure. Speaker 3: (06:03) Mmm. We think of neurologic pressure. So brain and spinal cord related pressures being somewhere between 1.3 and 2.0 and we think of things outside the central nervous system, soft tissue, um, and sort of overall hello. Outside of the central nervous system. A 2.0 and greater in general. No. From a like detoxification, lymphatic perspective, you can get benefits at both at 1.3 to 2.0 along with a 2.0 or greater. And from a STEM cell release perspective, the further down you go, the deeper you go, the more STEM cells that are released. So the indications fall into those two basic categories of neurologic versus non neurologic conditions. Although you can modulate the salt chambers to help you with some non neurologic conditions as well. You are getting more oxygen in circulation, right? So you are getting the ability to enhance your flow of oxygen to tissues regardless of the chamber and regardless of the pressure actually, although some pressure is needed. Mmm. And then you are helping with detoxification as well, no matter what pressures you're using, Speaker 2: (07:19) but it's more optimal at the, at the higher pressures. So, Speaker 3: (07:23) okay. Speaker 2: (07:24) So for neuro separate brain injury, like um, you know, not my story with my mum, um, 1.5 was what, you know, we were recommended is an ideal, uh, pressure for, for brain injury. So, so you're saying the neurological, the problems that people have actually better at the lower or the a then this oppression. So I should say, and for things like, um, Mmm diabetic wounds or um, healing injuries, uh, boons, that type of thing at a higher pressure would be more beneficial, but, or hyperbaric will help with detoxification. And was the limps and speeding up the healing hearing properties, the STEM cell release, is that higher when it's deeper, uh, pressure or high pressure? Speaker 3: (08:11) Yes. Yeah. The deeper you go, the more STEM cells are released because it's related to how much oxygen is being infused. The more oxygen infused, the more STEM cells get released. It's a, it's kind of a, it's kind of, it's a direct relationship. Speaker 2: (08:27) So do you know the, um, so I remember from the last podcast you're saying, you know, up to 12 times the amount of oxygen can be taken up into the body. Um, it is sad. So it says three atmospheres, there'll be 12 times in it at one and a half atmospheres. That would be, I don't know, somewhere in that for some six, seven times the amount of Mmm. Uh, oxygen that's diffusing. Now, the difference with a hyperbaric is actually, you know, like people will say, well, you know, I put an SPO two of my little thing on my finger and it says I'm 98%. I'm saturated with oxygen, right? How do I get more oxygen in? So what is the different mechanism between normal barracks, uh, pressure and hyperbaric pressure? Speaker 3: (09:16) Yeah, it's a question I get a lot, Lisa, and I'm sure you get it a lot too. So a pulse oximeter, it's something you put it on your finger and that measures the arterial oxygen saturation of your red blood cells. So you, red blood cells are what typically carry oxygen from your lungs. When you take a deep breath [inaudible] after going out of your lungs, as they go through the rest of your body and they to release oxygen so that you can make energy without oxygen, you cannot make ATP, which is the energy, energy currency of, of our body. And so you're right, our red blood cell carrying capacity for oxygen at sea level, he's actually quite good. That's when you put a pulsox machine on your finger. You get 97 to a hundred percent if you have normal lungs. So hyperbaric therapy is going to saturate any more sites on the red blood cells where they can carry oxygen. Speaker 3: (10:08) If there is like 97% sites, I already occupied those extra 3% will be occupied. But what's actually happening and the power of hyperbaric oxygen therapy in its ability to change this gaseous form of oxygen into a liquid form that actually diffuses directly into the plasma or the liquid of our blood and the liquid of our blood has very little oxygen in it at sea level. And we can diffuse up to 12 times or actually even more than that, a deeper pressures than three ATA, oxygen in circulation. And it's that extra oxygen you cannot get without having also been under pressure at the same time as getting more oxygen as well. Speaker 2: (10:49) So then this is really powerful when it comes to say injuries where uh, there's been a blockage to the blood supply to a certain area so that whether that's from a heart attack or a stroke or you know, Mmm. Or even as I presume with crush injuries and certain things like this we are not able to get, Lisa was a blocked in some way that you can actually perfuse the area around the injury with oxygen despite it not going through the blood vessels. Is that, is there a correct way of explaining it or Speaker 3: (11:25) know? The way I like to think about it is that you have all this oxygen that's now in circulation and it's kind of like oxygen, just like osmosis. We'll go to the area where there's less of it, so the more oxygen you have in a blood vessel, the more of that oxygen is going to get into the tissue around the blood vessel so you don't have to have as much vascular density potentially to get oxygen to that tissue because we've found a few, so much oxygen inside of that tissue bed itself that it could potentially factor as a way of saving tissue in the acute setting. So like you said, like the acute ischemia is the acute hypoxia is or low oxygen safe that happened with a heart attack. Well you have a lack of a blood flow in a coronary artery or a stroke. Speaker 3: (12:09) We have lack of blood flow, an artery in the brain or a spinal cord injury. When you have arteries that are actually broken you can actually get more oxygen to that tissue because you can diffuse more into the tissue bed around the injured blood vessel. It was also good is that when you have an acute injury there's also going to be a lot of swelling and actually injury too. The vessels that are going to cause leakage of that fluid and swelling. And actually in the chamber you actually constrict down blood vessels a little bit and that constriction actually helps you and prevents some of that fluid from releasing. And for some of that swelling to happen, even though you have this constriction of the blood vessel, you've also net had a significant delivery of oxygen to that tissue regardless because we've had all of that oxygen diffuse into the plasma. So Mmm, oxygen carrying capacity in normal settings without pressure is only dependent on how many red blood cells you have. But in a chamber we're pressurizing your body, pressurizing your breath or your whole body really. But when you take a deep breath, that pressurized oxygen is driven into the plasma or your liquid of the blood and that liquid of your, of your blood, it can go much further and diffuse much further into tissues outside of blood vessels as well. Speaker 2: (13:26) So for an example was, um, you know, my mom's story with the aneurysm. If I had managed, and of course at this stage I didn't know anything about Harbor about when this first happened, but if I'd been able to get her into a chamber immediately after the event occurred, uh, the cause the inflammation obviously with a broad love and Brian tissue mixing causes inflammation in the skull. Yeah. Um, that would have been hugely beneficial if I've managed to get her in a few times immediately after the event. So after she was stable, yes. Obviously, yeah, Speaker 3: (14:03) being stable. So I have some people, I just like to be very clear, you should go to a hospital. Did you have a stroke or you will have a heart attack and don't go to your local hyperbaric provider once you're stabilized. Yes. Um, there are some indications that the sooner that you can get treated in a chamber, the more oxygen you can get to your brain to a certain degree. I mean, not huge amounts. You don't want to go down to three atmospheres because that could be dangerous for your brain, but oxygen to your brain, oxygen to your heart after an acute event is going to save tissue in your brain and save tissue in your heart. [inaudible] they've even done studies looking at people that are getting bypass procedures, coronary bypass procedures. And if they're doing this, they get into a hyperbaric chamber right before, um, they save tissue in their heart so they, they have more harder to function, have better neurologic function after a coronary artery bypass grafting procedure. Speaker 2: (14:56) Wow. So, so Dr. Scott, like why is there any place in the world where this is offered in the ICU? You know, in the acute setting where people are coming in with major injuries or strokes or heart attacks or this type of thing where it's actually used as a part of the syrupy and if not, why not? Why is it not everywhere? Speaker 3: (15:17) Well to do acute care, hyperbaric therapy, it takes very specialized capability because if you're going to be in there with attendance or you have IVs going and you have others drugs you need to give, it's, it's definitely a specialized service. Um, in Japan, China and Russia, it's used much more in the acute setting than it is in the United States. The U S it has, and it still is used for acute trauma. So if you have like a traumatic ischemia, like we have a traumatic injury to one of your soft tissue areas, for example, it can be used. Um, but in general, um, it's not used as often in the trauma setting in the, in the U S as it is in other countries, especially China, Russia and Japan. Speaker 2: (16:05) Right. Okay. And it's not, it's not used here either and it's not even approved. Is it on the, in America, is it an approved treatment for, um, neurological events? Speaker 3: (16:18) There's no neurologic indication that's covered right now in the United States. Wow. Yeah. Speaker 2: (16:23) Even though it is right, Speaker 3: (16:24) I'm going to change that. And I mean the one that has the had the most, I think research behind it in the most interest is traumatic brain injury and concussion. There is definitely some good studies from across the world. M a U S showing how hyperbaric therapy can help people recover from concussion and traumatic brain injuries, which is another name for concussion really either in the short term and like from an acute concussion or even from hello term symptoms that may not go away. Speaker 2: (16:53) Yeah, absolutely. So we were talking about like there's different things here that are going on. You've got, it's detecting the inflammation is producing more STEM cells. It's a, it's Oh, sorry. Knocking off senescent cells isn't it? Which are your old cells that are not doing much of anything. Speaker 3: (17:15) Yeah, they're called the zombie cells. Right. So, um, can we, I like to think about hyperbaric therapy is, is relatively simply, there's four things that we do in the chamber. The first thing we do is we reverse hypoxia. We've been already talking about that. We reverse low oxygen States by getting more oxygen into circulation and over the longterm a protocol of hyperbaric therapy, create new blood vessels in those areas that have been injured. We're going to play games and then maintain the ability to get blood flow to that tissue over the long term. That's the first thing, reversing hypoxia. The second thing is decreasing inflammation. It does that immediately by constructing down the blood vessels like we talked about, but also over the longterm. It has the ability to shift our epigenetics, change how our body, our DNA expresses certain proteins that are responsible for inflammation. Speaker 3: (18:07) Things like TNF alpha, I'll one L six I'll eight and others. The third thing it does is releases a massive number of STEM cells. Those STEM cells all released throughout the body and they hone or they go to areas where there is more inflammation or there's more need for STEM cells to go to those areas and regenerate them. The next thing that happens is that there is, especially in higher oxygen environments, we have the ability to kill bugs, kill bacteria, fungus, and potentially even viruses. A deeper pressures in the chamber. So senescence cell populations look like they do get decreased or they do go down. We're not exactly sure how that's happening. We don't know if that's happening because those cells are being regenerated or if those cells are being killed off and either way is good for the body really. Because when they stick around and they're not replicating, and there we have a high association with cancer, with degenerative disease. Yeah. With aging overall. So senescent cells aren't cool in general. So we want those to go away. Uh, we don't know if that's because new STEM cells are coming and just the other ones are dying or if we're now getting more oxygen to the tissue. And so those cells are getting enough oxygen to regenerate their mitochondria and start making energy more effectively, which is where we make energy in ourselves. We're not sure. Speaker 2: (19:39) So the senescent cells are basically cells that have had past their use by date really. And they're not doing much of anything except causing trouble in the body, causing inflammation, causing changes, perhaps even, uh, in closing cancers and so on. Um, so it's really good to be getting rid of those. You mentioned the, um, I was six. Yeah. I are six from memory as one of the ones that they talking about in the Cobra, uh, scenario a that that's so interleukin six is, can you explain, um, I mean obviously we don't know whether it's good for coven Mmm. But is this potentially something that if someone has the Corona virus that they can potentially look at doing to stop the cytokine storm that's actually killing the people? Speaker 3: (20:30) Well, we're actually looking into it now. I have several colleagues around the United States that are starting with clinical studies to look at how hyperbaric therapy I can work on two fronts. It can work as a way to get more oxygen to the system as we've been describing it, because one of the things that's happening in covert is that they're getting very, very hypoxic. They're getting very low oxygen levels and we think this has something to do with destruction of the red blood cells or the inability of red blood cells to carry oxygen as effectively. So again, we can bypass that by being in a chamber like I am right now and pressurizing around you. And then as a result of that pressurization, I'm getting more oxygen in circulation regardless of how many red blood cells I have working or not, how many hemoglobin molecules I have working or not. Speaker 3: (21:16) So that's one area that we're looking at is how hyperbaric therapy can work. The other area that we're looking at is as, as as an anti-inflammatory. So it does have the ability to downregulate those inflammatory cytokines, one of them being IO six. So maybe helping with that cytokine storm at the same time. We also know for other studies over the years that hyperbaric therapy is and immuno modulator, it helps the immune system function better. Um, so we think in the early part of the process, maybe if coven 19 we don't know yet for sure, but it may help to support the immune system and allow it to sort of weather the storm better as opposed to not weathering it as well. So it's a lot of conjecture right now, Lisa, you know, we don't know for sure how it works or if it's going to work, but there are definitely some of my colleagues around the U S and around the world that are looking at how hyperbaric therapy might be a helpful adjunct to conventional care. Speaker 3: (22:16) Maybe prevent people from getting intubated or being on ventilators, which would be a great thing. And so they're looking at that as another having you, and they're also looking at pressurizing the hoods, the hoods that you were in a hyperbaric chamber as a way to get more oxygen into the system without being an hyperbaric chamber as well. So yeah, I've posted a little bit about this on my Instagram because I just find these really intriguing. There is actually one company that's looking to retrofit airplanes. Airplanes are usually pressurized at 8,000 feet above sea level, so they're actually hypoxic environments. There's lower oxygen on and off on an airplane. That's your breathing as opposed to being at sea level. Wow. But what they can do is that they can reverse their pressurization and actually pressurize it. Like a hyperbaric environment. No, you couldn't fly with a plane like this because it would be too heavy, but you can keep it on the ground and and make it a hyperbaric chamber. And you know those oxygen masks that come from the ceiling already, right? So they could use those oxygen masks as a way to get more oxygen into circulation. So this is just one of those sort of crazy ideas. But it's a really interesting idea where you can actually retrofit airplanes to be hyperbaric chambers. Wow. Speaker 2: (23:31) Because that's one of the reasons we get jet lag, isn't it? Because we're, we're, we're at this, um, you know, equivalent of 8,000 feet or 2,500 meters. Mmm. Right? So we're just, we were actually coming out with a bit of an altitude situation where you've actually not got enough oxygen and that's adding to the fact that you've been traveling for how many hours and sitting still and not oxygenating. Anyway, Speaker 3: (23:55) there's the circadian rhythm piece of it, but you are at low oxygen levels and you are at higher risk for jet lag and infection too, so that's why you have a higher risk for infection when you fly. Not so much because of the sanitation on the plane. Although yeah, the air itself on a plane isn't the cleanest. Yeah, and I'm hoping that one of the things that happens with this whole covert thing is that the air on planes becomes cleaner than it is now. That more is coming from the outside of the plane and be less being research related, but in in in essence the low oxygen environment is, is definitely not helping from your health perspective and like the Dreamliners. Some of the newer planes are pressurized to 6,000 feet above. See instead of the 8,000 you said it helps with jet lag and you add on circadian rhythm changes or helping urge on your circadian rhythms to be in the, the times when you're going on it's going to help significantly and that's what new plans are trying to do and that's a new health. Your hotel rooms are also trying to do as well, new hotel rooms with new lighting and things like that that are happening, which is super cool. But in essence, yes, the airplane itself is a hypo H Y P O Barrick environments. And we can make it and retrofit it to be a hyperbaric environment as well, which, so if you have any extra seven 30 sevens hanging around, let me know and we can work on it. Speaker 2: (25:14) There you go. We can got Richard put them together. That sounds really good because flying is one of a really big danger to our health and we've, we've seen the effects of covert going through airplanes, you know, all that sort of, um, um, I just wanted to, to touch on a couple of years, NGO Genesis. Can you explain what angiogenesis is and what is actually happening there in regards to Hochberg? Speaker 3: (25:42) Yeah. So angiogenesis is the creation of new blood vessels. And in a hyperbaric chamber, that acute infusion of, of oxygen, it's going to flood the body with more oxygen, but it's not going to create new blood vessels. What happens after a protocol call of hyperbaric therapy is that we have these epigenetic shifts, we have these shifts and expression of DNA and that DNA expression is shifted in a way that more blood vessels are created because of some of the various factors that are released under pressure and under a high oxygen conditions. Those are things like VEGF, which is a very common blood vascular growth factor and others. And we have these new blood vessels that form and they tend to form in areas where there is hypoxic tissue or there is low oxygen in tissue. They tend to form an areas where there have been injuries in the past. And so these new blood vessels which are created allow the sustainability of the results on the effects of hyperbaric therapy to be a longer term play. Speaker 2: (26:43) So if you have a heart problem, so you have to ha, you know, you've got a blockage in one of your, your arteries. Um, is this a possible way to get around that blockage without surgery in conjunction with surgery over the longer term enough stations here. Speaker 3: (27:01) So we're talking about collateralization of blood vessels, which which would, what I mean by that is that that's the medical term of you basically create collaterals around blockages and that's what a bypass is, right? A bypass procedure is creating ways to go around blockages. It's like, it's like going off the on ramp and taking the service road like around traffic, uh, that stopped and then going back on the service road back onto the freeway after the traffic is over kind of deal. That's a good way to describe it. What a collateral would be like a collateral road. And so hyperbaric therapy can help you create those. And we don't know about the heart specifically though because we haven't done the studies to know. But we do know from the studies that have been done that there is an increase in vascular density in the heart. There's an increase in vascular density in the brain after a protocol of therapy. And so as a result of that, you will have the ability to get more oxygen to tissue because you have more density of blood vessels. No, we haven't done the study looking at people with blocked blood vessels to see what happens under hyperbaric conditions. It just hasn't happened. But the conjecture that we have is that it would potentially help without collateralization. It goes off roads, service road kinds of ideas. Speaker 2: (28:18) Yeah. Going around, I heard, um, that DHEA is an interesting one for the main, at the uh, uh, erectile dysfunction can be helped with hyperbaric oxygen therapy, creating new new blood PA angiogenesis for that sort of a problem. Is that correct? Speaker 3: (28:35) Yeah, it's the same deal. I mean the, the physiology of hyperbaric therapy, it goes everywhere. Your, your full body is oxygenated. So decreasing inflammation, reversing hypoxia, the STEM cell release and killing bugs happens anywhere and that includes regenerating blood vessels in, in a penis or and uh, in areas around the heart or in areas that have degenerated otherwise. And so they did a study looking at erectile dysfunction in males that were relatively healthy and their erectile function improved after, I think it was 6,600 hyperbaric chamber treatments. And so that's new blood vessels that are getting created, a new blood vessel, low vascular flow and the penis. And so we have indications that happens in women as well with, with vaginal flow. But we don't have the studies to show that. Right. Often we'll get the, uh, the feedback from women and men that sex life is better in, in hyperbaric. There's people that have gotten hyperbaric therapy. Speaker 2: (29:38) That's a good reason. Speaker 3: (29:40) Yeah. Speaker 3: (29:41) Well, yeah, there are some studies on infertility already, uh, in helping with fertility because it helps getting it a deeper pressure helped, helps with the uterine lining. The uterine lining itself will, um, we'll get thicker under hyperbaric conditions we think. And then as a result of that, there's a higher chance for the embryo, the embryo to be implanted. And so if you have a thinner uterine lining, you can pick it up potentially in the chamber. So this is used already in Russia and in China as a fertility treatments actually quite commonly in the West and the U S it's not very common. Speaker 2: (30:19) No, I haven't come across the same one. You know, you the troubles with fertility for years. [inaudible] um, I'm going to get in there even more often now. That's not the reason. Speaker 3: (30:31) Just to be clear though, this is at the deeper pressures. Speaker 2: (30:34) Oh yeah. Speaker 3: (30:34) It's shown effect. So this is at like two atmospheres, 2.4. Speaker 2: (30:38) The 1.5 why won't quite cut it so that, that sort of a problem. It probably can't hurt Kenneth. Speaker 3: (30:44) I don't think it would hurt. No. I mean, but there are certain things that I don't recommend going at less pressure. Uh, and that I'm pretty emphatic about. So the things that I don't feel are likely well-treated at 1.3 are any open wounds. Any open wounds really need to be treated at deeper pressures. If you have any ongoing infections. I don't, I feel for the most part, that 1.3 atmosphere is enough. Really. I see a significant benefit unless it's an it, a bug that does not like oxygen environments. And then in that case maybe, but the deeper pressures would likely still be better. Yeah. If you have any chemical sensitivities, these chambers can sometimes make them worse because they're made out of a plastic material. And that plastic material, uh, does off gas to some degree. And I do find that some of my patients that are highly sensitive, so plastics and to chemicals, uh, will not feel good in these kinds of chambers either. Speaker 3: (31:46) If you have any of the FDA approved conditions in my country, I don't recommend using a soft chamber either. Those should be done in deep pressures. The only approved indication for these chambers, assault chambers, that's insurance coverage in the U S is acute mountain sickness. So you go up a mountain too fast, you get signs of altitude sickness, you can get into one of these chambers and you can feel better pretty quickly. And that's, you know, one of the reasons why I have some interests in, Oh, there has been interested in coven 19 specifically because they're thinking that some of the physiology is similar. Yeah. Altitude tickets, how people are, how responding to the virus. Speaker 2: (32:30) So, so, so most of those, um, so since only the only thing that, uh, Molotov America is approved for is mountain, even though there are, but, um, from, from, yep. Okay. Speaker 3: (32:45) There are studies to show that these pressures