PRETEND

Peter Pan syndrome is when someone refuses to grow up. It’s neither a disease nor a recognized mental disorder—it’s just a state of mind. Today, you're going to meet a man who became a fugitive in order to live in his very own Neverland. Larry Douglas Jones is not your typical fugitive. He had a wife and three kids. And to be honest, he's not a dangerous man. He became overwhelmed with life and decided to run away. This is the first in a series of stories about fugitives running from the law. This season, we’ll explore how abandoning your old identity leads to a whole set of complications. How do these criminals assume a new identity? What strategies do they use to avoid getting caught? _______________ This episode was 100% funded by you. I was able to travel to Gulfport, MS for this story using funds raised on Patreon. So if you’d like to see me to take the show on the road, consider chipping in a buck or two on our Patreon page. Plus, you’ll get access to early episodes and bonus content. So, thank you so much for the support. _______________ Lies, lies, and more lies A few seasons ago, I asked you to submit stories about lies. Either lies that you’ve told or lies that have impacted you personally. And boy, was the response crazy! I ended up making a whole episode dedicated to lies. I want to try it again. Email me a voice memo. Chances are your story could make it on the show. ------- Story idea? If you have a story to share, email Javier a voice memo or short written description at [email protected]. For more episodes like this visit pretendradio.org. To get early releases and bonus episodes go to pretendradio.org/donate Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Arthur Shawcross is one of America's most notorious serial killers. This is the story about one of his closest friends. Who do you turn to when your deepest fantasies involve murder and cannibalism? It's an affliction most people can't relate to—unless you're a serial killer. For John Paul Fay, that confidant was a killer named Arthur Shawcross. In a series of letters, Fay confesses to Shawcross his desire to kill, yet he never crosses that line. My friend John Taylor interviewed John Paul Fay and asked him, what keeps him from acting on his disturbing urges. This episode is frightening. If you enjoyed it as much as I did, please check out the Twisted Podcast. You won't be disappointed. The episode you're about to listen to is borrowed from the Twisted Podcast with John Taylor. You can read John Paul Fay's book titled the Shawcross Letters: My Journey Into The Mind Of Evil. *Warning this episode contains extremely graphic material including descriptions of murder and cannibalism. Listen to my full conversation with John Taylor on my Patreon feed. Alison Sweeney joins us to talk about the Shawcross Letters and her new project “Chronicle Mysteries” on Hallmark Movie and Mysteries. The host of a true crime podcast embarks on her latest project, and uncovers a decades-old murder while investigating a mysterious disappearance, in “Chronicle Mysteries: Recovered,” a new original premiering Sunday, February 17, (9 p.m. ET/PT) on Hallmark Movies & Mysteries. Alison Sweeney (“Days of Our Lives,” “The Biggest Loser”) executive produces and stars, along with Benjamin Ayres (“Saving Hope”). The Chronicle Mysteries: Recovered premieres Sunday, February 17 at 9pm/8c The Chronicle Mysteries: The Wrong Man premieres Sunday, February 24 at 9pm/8c The Chronicle Mysteries: Vines that Bind premieres Sunday, March 3 at 9pm/8c Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Abby Ellin didn't know it yet, but the man she was about to marry was a compulsive liar living a double life. She was duped—hard. In this bonus episode, we talk about her story and why she's now obsessed with con artists. Abby Ellin is a New York Times contributor and author of Duped: Double Lives, False Identities and the Conman I Almost Married. ____________ Stick around to the end of the episode to listen to a preview of Pretend season 4. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let’s say a man speaks to another man. Perhaps he looks at him for too long or laughs at his joke. That’s gay. Maybe you’re standing too close. It doesn’t matter. If I’m a Word of Faith fellowship member and I think you’re gay—then you’re gay. I don’t have to prove it–I know it. And I can’t let you suffer from those gay demons. I have to pray for you to release the gay spirits out of you. And the way we pray at the Word of Faith Fellowship is through loud prayers. And it’s not only me praying over you—Sussie, Bobby, and Roger will join in. Soon, you’ll have 20 to 30 people screaming at you. And like Jane says, “people can get carried away.” So, it’s easy to imagine this prayer becoming more than a loud scream. I might hold on to your shoulders and give you a gentle tug. Then, I might punch you in the chest. Maybe my hands creep further up, and before I realize it, I’m wrapping my fingers around your neck. This hypothetical scenario I painted for you is exactly what Matthew Fenner says happened to him. Release the gay demons Tonight, it’s Matthew Fenner’s turn to receive an exorcism. Church ministers are praying over him. They’re trying to release the devil’s grip over his homosexual desires. Danielle Cordes was there the night. She says Brooke Covington, Jane’s so-called adopted daughter, was the one calling the shots. People who know Brooke’s style of worship say that she doesn’t have time to deal with your devils. So when it’s time to pray over you, it’s going to hurt. Brooke barks at Danielle and demands her to join in. “Brooke was the one coaching them through it,” explained Danielle. She says she too participated in the prayer. “I never slapped him or did any of that. I had my arm on him, but if I had like, I don’t know, I couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t do it.” The case against Brooke Covington and the Word of Faith Fellowship The night after the alleged attack, Matthew Fenner escaped the Word of Faith Fellowship. He went straight to the police and filed a report. Unfortunately for him, the authorities were only willing to file misdemeanor charges. It will take years for actual criminal charges to be filed. To give you an idea, this beating allegedly took place in January 2013. Matthew was 19 at the time. He’s 25 years old now. That’s almost 5 years and there’s still no resolution to this case. What happens next? This is the final installment of season 3 The Prophet. This might be the last episode of this series, but the story is far from over. To keep up with this story, follow John Huddle’s blog religiouscultinfo.com andCitizens against corruption and abuse on Facebook. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jane Whaley recently turned 80-years-old. Obviously, the Word of Faith Fellowship can’t go on forever. At least not the way we know of it today. So, who’s taking over? Can it go on without Jane Whaley’s vision and authority? Or will it all just fall apart? John Huddle, a former member, says that Jane’s biological daughter Robin Webster is believed to take over the church. But he suspects that, when Jane Whaley dies, there will be a power struggle within the church.The case against the Word of Faith Fellowship We’ll talk more about this alleged attack in the next episode. Today, we’re going to focus on how we got to this point. Before Brooke Covington was charged with kidnapping and beating Matthew Fenner, she was actually the person who recruited him into the church. How did she go from being his spiritual leader, to being charged with beating him? In order to understand the case against Brooke Covington and the Word of Faith Fellowship ministries, you first understand how Matthew Fenner joined the church. Cults recruit the vulnerable The biggest questions I get all the time is, how do people get sucked into a cult. Everyone says that they would never fall for it, so how did Matthew and his family become one of them? Before Matthew Fenner joined the Word of Faith Fellowship, he thought they were freaks. He heard rumors of the demonic possessions and members vomiting in buckets to evil spirits. Let’s just say that he wasn’t exactly a perfect candidate. And on top of that, Matthew was openly gay and considered himself an atheist. So, how does someone like him get sucked into a ultra conservative Christian cult? The Word of Faith Fellowship found Matthew Fenner, and his family, when there were at their lowest point. Matthew’s family rejected his sexuality, his mother was in a bad marriage, and they were running out of money. These were desperate times. Matthew attended his first service in February 2010. During this time he had friends, was a member of a dance troupe, and attended public school. By December of that same year, he cut ties with everyone he knew, quit dance, and enrolled in the church’s private school. How did it happen? How can someone go from gay atheist to a god-fearing cult member? Matthew Fenner describes his journey into the Word of Faith Fellowship. Listen to episode 10 of the Prophet on Apple podcast, Google Play, Spotify, or Stitcher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Christina Bryant is about to go face-to-face with the real Jane Whaley. In my previous episode, I got to see the political side of Jane—the Jane she wanted the world to meet. Christina, on the other hand, is about to talk with the real Jane Whaley—the one everyone fears. And she got it all on tape. Christina Bryant went undercover inside the Word of Faith Fellowship. She’s wearing a hidden microphone. It’s been 6 years since she last step foot in the church. You see, Christina is a former member who has been excommunicated and is forbidden to contact her family. If she ever wants to ever speak with them again, she has to go through Jane Whaley first. This 3-hour recording is completely engrossing. However, there are certain parts of this tape that brings up interesting legal questions regarding child abuse. Jane flat out says she’s not required by law to report sexual abuse because of pastor confidentiality. Is this true? How can this be true? Jane also claims if a child has bruising, the NC Department of Social Services doesn’t consider that abuse. Reporting Child Abuse and Neglect in North Carolina I reached out to my friend Rabia Chaudry from the Undisclosed Podcast for help. She put me in touch with her co-host Colin Miller, to walk me through what Jane says and how it applies to North Carolina law. I have to say, I’m shocked. I also spoke with NC licensed attorney Paul Ditz. He’s one of the few attorney’s to have ever questioned Jane Whaley on the stand. He tells me that just because DSS allows minor bruising and Jane is protected by penitent privilege, doesn’t mean that she’s not responsible. Take a deep breath because you’re about to go inside the mind of Jane Whaley. Sources: NC Article 7 – Competency of WitnessesReporting Child Abuse and Neglect in North CarolinaParental Discipline: When Is It Abuse and/or a Crime?A&E Documentary on the Word of Faith Fellowship titled “The Devil Next Door” postponed Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The world first learned about the Word of Faith Fellowship after an Inside Edition exposé in 1995. The investigation, led by the Trinity Foundation, revealed accusations of abuse within the church. Watch the Inside Edition story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwE5fBT9RYE Jane Whaley's quiet little kingdom was suddenly in the spotlight. Hidden cameras captured Jane's signature screaming prayer. Church members told Inside Edition that they would strap children to chairs so they wouldn't run away. It was horrifying. After a brief press conference, Jane Whaley never spoke to the media on the record ever again. So why did she pick me as her first interview since 1995? I asked Jane, "Why me?" She told me that God spoke to her after listening to my show. But why now? Jane says she wanted to contact me but said that she didn’t know how to reach me. During my visit, Sam Whaley told me that the closest they’ve come to talking to the media was when a BBC producer approached her about doing a story. She said he was very nice, just like me. But in the end, they decided it wasn’t right. Then, an A&E documentary crew asked to interview Jane and bring cameras into the church. Jane flat out said no because they weren’t interested in the truth. Her lawyers told me that the TV crew and former members showed up unannounced to church member owned businesses and caused a spectacle. My interview with cult leader Jane Whaley of the Word of Faith Fellowship After the 3-hour service was over, Jane and I walked back to her office. Jane Whaley sat next to me. To my left sat her husband Sam Whaley. And across the room sat her two attorneys Mark Norris and Josh Farmer. Without ever even asking a question, Jane began to tell me about every controversial issue facing the church. She told me that she knows nothing about unemployment (Jane's referring to the recent the guilty pleas in the unemployment fraud cases.) When I asked her about the Brazilian slaves, she told me that some of the Brazilian's making these claims are entitled and lazy. During the meeting, Jane performed a blasting prayer for me. She also told me that she's gearing for a great confrontation and that they're ready for the end of times. National Domestic Violence Hotline I also want to take the time to thank the former members who have listened to the show and have written me emails, facebook messages about their experience at the Word of Faith Fellowship. It just reinforces that what I’m doing is important. Also, I know there are current members reading this right now. If you feel you’re in danger or just need someone to talk to, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline1-800-799-7233. They’re available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They can help you find a place to stay near Spindale while you figure things out. Or you can contact the Citizens against corruption and abuse828-289-7923. at area code Promos Southern Gothic Minds of Madness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Previously on Pretend Radio, I came face-to-face with pastor Jane Whaley of the Word of Faith Fellowship. When I arrived, we met in her office for a few minutes before the church service began. I was surprised by everyone's friendliness. Suddenly, the music started playing and we knew it was time to head into the main sanctuary. Jane Whaley held my hand as we walked down a long hallway towards the service. As we inched closer to the sanctuary, the music got louder and louder—it was ear drum busting loud. Jane and I walked in like rock stars. Her attorney escorted me to the second row behind Jane and her husband Sam Whaley. Word of Faith Fellowship sanctuary in Spindale, North Carolina Was the church service real or just a big show? The service started around 9:30am and ended around 12:30pm. It was a musical event filled with praise and worship. Old women were jumping up and down in their high heels, old men were singing as loud as they could, and the children appeared to be happy. Former members say that this is exactly what Jane Whaley wanted me to see. According to them, this service was tailored specifically for me. Bonus episode: Why did Paul McCartney's drummer join a cult? Joe English played drums with Paul McCartney and Wings. Today, he's a devoted member at the Word of Faith Fellowship church in Spindale, North Carolina. I met Joe English during my visit. Hear how Jane Whaley saved him from a life of drugs and rock n' roll. Listen to this exclusive Patreon episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As far as I know, I'm the first journalist who has ever interviewed pastor Jane Whaley. Heck, I might be the only member of the media to have attended church service. How was I able to pull this off? The short answer is, I have no idea. In fact, when the executive producer of the upcoming A&E series on Word of Faith Fellowship found out about my exclusive interview, he gave me a call. He asked me, "I just want to know one thing... how did you do it?" I told him, "I just asked nicely?" (UPDATE: A&E pulls the docu-series the night before it was scheduled to air) My first contact with Jane Whaley The last people to get an invitation to the Word of Faith Fellowship got the cops called on them. However, that didn't stop me from contacting Jane. I have Jane Whaley's email address and intend to use it. Besides, what's the worst thing that could happen? Get arrested for trespassing? True Crime Podcast Festival | Chicago 2019 Also, I am excited to announce that Pretend Radio is going to be attending the first annual True Crime Podcast Festival on July 13, 2019 in Chicago! Trust me, start planning now. It’s worth traveling to. This is your chance to mingle with podcasters you listen to regularly. There will also be live episode recordings as well as panel discussions. In fact, I’m speaking in one of them. Some of the shows registered are All Crime No Cattle, Criminology, Canadian True Crime, Mugshot, Swindled, Sword and Scale, and so many more. You won’t want to miss this. Go to the website TCPF2019.com to find information on tickets and the hotel. Prices do go up the closer we get to the event so you won’t want to wait. When you buy your ticket, make sure you mention Pretend Radio on the ticket registration survey. This is going to be a blast. I can’t wait to meet everyone at the True Crime Podcast Festival! For more information, see the show notes. Many people have been writing me and sharing their stories. If you have a story to share, shoot me an email at [email protected] or follow me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Our theme music was composed by Joe Basile with thechicken.net. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did you know that the Word of Faith Fellowship has nearly 2,000 members internationally? They have affiliate churches all over the world including Brazil, Sweden, Scotland, and other countries. Brazil is by far the biggest territory ruled under Jane Whaley’s kingdom. They have churches in two southeastern Brazilian cities. The first church is in Soa Joaquim de Bicas which is about 6 hours north of Rio de Janeiro. They also have second church in Franco de Rocha which is an hour outside of Sao Paulo. Jane conquers Brazil and offers them salvation For a few lucky Brazilians, Jane blessed them with more than just salvation—an opportunity to live in the United States. Ana Albuquerque told the Associated Press that when she first arrived in Spindale, church members showered her with love. She said, "The first time you go, they treat you well. But afterwards, they start treating you bad.” Ana says things turned ugly fast. She claims she worked full time as a teacher’s assistant and baby sat church member’s children at night–all without pay. Then the physical abuse started. Ana says that Jane and another minister spanked her with a wooden stick. She told the AP they blasted her with a screaming prayer because she was “unclean” and possessed by the devil. And we’re not talking a small tap on the butt kind of spank. Ana says the beatings lasted for at least 40 minutes. She finally was allowed to return to Brazil and has since left the church. 16 Brazilians come forward “It was a horror living there,” says Rebecca Mello. Her dreams of freedom quickly turned into a nightmare. She told the Associated Press that she was brought to the US in 2009 on a student visa. Immediately after she got here, church leaders took her passports and her money, and was quickly put to work. "We’re made to get up early, make the kids breakfast, cook, do their beds, pick up the the laundry.” Thiago Silva says, "We were there working, but we never got paid. If you’re not paid for something, even for your food, I would say that you’re a slave." All in all, 16 Brazilian’s have come forward to share their personal story of abuse and enslavement. True Crime Podcast Festival | Chicago 2019 Also, I am excited to announce that Pretend Radio is going to be attending the first annual True Crime Podcast Festival on July 13, 2019 in Chicago! Trust me, start planning now. It’s worth traveling to. This is your chance to mingle with podcasters you listen to regularly. There will also be live episode recordings as well as panel discussions. In fact, I’m speaking in one of them. Go to the website TCPF2019.com to find information on tickets and the hotel. Many people have been writing me and sharing their stories. If you have a story to share, shoot me an email at [email protected] or follow me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Today’s episode was edited by the talented Molly Clay. Our theme music was composed by Joe Basile with thechicken.net. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When Nancy Burnette was appointed by the courts to be a guardian ad litem, she knew her job wasn’t going to be easy. A guardian ad litem is someone who represents kids in the foster care system. It’s her job to place children in homes with the right parents. If she doesn’t get right, her decision can cause lasting damage on these vulnerable children. This was a challenge Nancy was willing to take. So, put yourself in Nancy’s shoes for a second. If you had to place a child in the custody of the Word of Faith Fellowship family, what would you do? This episode explores the series of questions surrounding the Word of Faith and accusations about their grip on local government. For example, did you know the Jane Whaley’s son in law, Frank Webster, was an assistant state prosecutor at a nearby county? There are also accusations that a local social workers undermined abuse investigations at the Word of Faith Fellowship? The list of accusations go on and on. In this episode titled “Allegations of Abuse and Corruption,” I’ll do my best to describe some of the political controversy surrounding the Word of Faith Fellowship. ------- See the front page article on Pretend Radio and the church's response: http://pretendradio.org/word-of-faith-fellowship-prophet-allegations-of-child-abuse-and-corruption/ ------- Also, I am excited to announce that Pretend Radio is going to be attending the first annual True Crime Podcast Festival on July 13, 2019 in Chicago! Trust me, start planning now, it’s worth traveling to. This is your chance to mingle with podcasters you listen to regularly. There will also be live episode recordings as well as panel discussions. In fact, I’m speaking at one of them. Some of the shows registered are All Crime No Cattle, Criminology, Canadian True Crime, Mugshot, Swindled, Sword and Scale, and so many more. You won’t want to miss this. Go to the website TCPF2019.com to find information on tickets and the hotel. Prices do go up the closer we get to the event so you won’t want to wait. When you buy your ticket, make sure you mention Pretend Radio on the ticket registration survey. This is going to be a blast. I can’t wait to meet everyone at the True Crime Podcast Festival! For more information, see the show notes. —PROMO— Swindled Framed: An investigative story —MUSIC— Thechicken.net Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On April 7th, 2018, more than a dozen former Word of Faith Fellowship members reunited at the Spindale House in Rutherford County, North Carolina. It was an opportunity for former members to answer lingering questions for the citizens in the community. But in reality, it was probably an event designed to make good television for the documentary crew filming the whole thing. When I walked into the room, I expected a small gathering with a few chairs. Instead, I counted 6 professional video cameras and crew to match it. It was a huge production. I soon learned that today’s community event was part of an upcoming A&E documentary series on the Word of Faith Fellowship. Each former member in the panel sat behind a microphone provided by the A&E crew. About 80 to 100 people were in attendance—including current members of the Word of Faith Fellowship. The room was tense. John Cooper, former Word of Faith Fellowship Former Members speaks about his experience with the Department of Social Services in Rutherford, County. Survivors speak out against Pastor Jane Whaley This episode was especially hard to write because there were so many stories to tell. But there was one story that stood out more than the others. Former Word of Faith Fellowship member Jamey Anderson delivered an impassioned speech about leaving the church. He lamented about being cut off from his family and missing his own grandfather’s funeral. In the audience sat his mother with an emotionless expression on her face. You see, Jamey’s mother is still a member at the church and has cut all communication with her son. Jamey called her out and said, “I’m very happy to see that whatever I've done has motivated her to show up today. So it's at least good to see her.” Jamey used his time behind the microphone to respond to his mother’s 30 minute YouTube video. In the video, his mother Patti, his grandmother Dot, and his step-sister Allison describe why they think Jamey’s a liar and justify why they have disowned him. ---SUBSCRIBE--- Apple Podcasts Google Play Stitcher Spotify ---PROMO--- Let's Talk About Sects Killafornia Dreaming ---MUSIC--- Thechicken.net Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Who is Jane Whaley? Jane Whaley is the pastor at the Word of Faith Fellowship—a conservative, charismatic Christian church. Those who have left the church describe her as a ruthless cult leader. But, we don't know much about her. Where did she come from? How did she assume power? I spoke with John Huddle, a former Word of Faith Fellowship member, to learn more about Jane Whaley's past. To learn more visit pretendradio.org --Promo-- All Crime No Cattle --Music-- Thechicken.net Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Season 3: The Prophet - Word of Faith Fellowship Revisited I’m back with a whole new season of Pretend Radio. But this time it’s going to be a little different. Instead of telling you a different story each episode, I decided to do a serialize season where I tell you a single story, one episode at a time. So what is it about? It’s about the first episode I aired on this show—the Word of Faith Fellowship church. Back in season one, I met up with a man who says he escaped the cult. His name is John Cooper. I contacted him and asked "Hey, do you want to meet up? I’m thinking about starting a podcast and would like to tell your story." So, we just met up at a park in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. At this point, I didn’t know what this podcast was all about. All I knew was that he was part of a religious sect. And what he told me that day in that park blew my mind. But in the end, I feel like I didn’t do that story justice. It was one guy’s story. I needed to go out to the other side of the state, where the Word of Faith Fellowship is located, and do a little more digging. So, I got in my car and drove west. After I spending the whole day in Spindale, North Carolina, I thought to myself, there is no way I keep everything I just learned in one episode. If season one was about John cooper, season 3 is all about the town of Spindale. The episode you’re about to listen to is my first 3 episodes rolled into one. And I’m going to stitch them together by playing some ads for some non-profits organizations. And at the end of the episode there’s a preview of the new season. Now many of you have already heard this story, but trust me, even I had to go back and listen to these episodes. Once the season starts, I’m not going to spend a lot setting things up. We’re just going to get right to it. If you’re new to Pretend Radio, well this is a great place to start. Let me tell you, it’s pretty crazy. I got deeper into this story than any other journalist. The BBC has tried and failed. The Associated Press tried and they couldn’t get in. Even A&E is producing a documentary on the WOFF and they didn’t get the access I got. So enjoy this flashback episode and revisit The Prophet from season one. And get ready for the season because it’s coming out very soon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Martin McNally needed some cash, so what did he do? He hijacked an American Airlines flight with 90 passengers on board. If you haven’t listened to part one, check that out first. Today’s episode, picks up where we last left off. It’s 1972, and Martin McNally just hijacked a plane heading to Tulsa, Oklahoma. His plan was simple… Demand a half a million dollars, jump out of the plane, and disappear into the darkness of night. After 15 seconds of freefall, McNally pulls the ripcord. He begins to spin out of control. The parachute whips out and blasts him in the face. McNally looks up at the canopy as it pulls him away from the Earth. Then he looks down, and he realizes that the money bag slipped out of his hands. What now? He’s beat up, he lost all the money, and by the time he reaches the ground, there will be hundreds of FBI agents searching for him. What’s the point? McNally, considers ending it all. You definitely want to check out the rest of this story. This story was produced by Chris Knittel with the Burner Phone Podcast and was written and edited by me, Javier Leiva. LINKS Chief of Police for Peru Indiana picks up Martin McNally | New York Times Article Copter Hijacker Killed by Pilot Had Car With Weapons | New York Times Article Garrett Trapnell | Wiki FEATURED PROMO Already Gone Fall Line Podcast MUSIC The Pretend Radio theme song was composed by Joe Basile with thechicken.net Additional music by Blue Dot Session Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Martin McNally is going to hijack this plane and nobody, not even the FBI, is going to stop him. In today’s episode, Martin McNally recounts his 1972 hijacking of an American Airlines flight heading to Tulsa, Oklahoma. His plan was simple—sneak a submachine gun onboard a 727 jet, demand a half-million dollars in cash, and escape with a parachute. And he almost got away with it. Martin McNally’s story is gripping and will have you at the edge of your seat. He was inspired by the infamous hijacker D.B. Cooper. But unlike D.B. Cooper, we actually know how McNally’s story ends. As you can imagine, his plan didn’t go smoothly. The pilot had to return to St. Louis to get the mailbags full of money. After hours of negotiations with the FBI, there was a crew change and an FBI agent, dressed as crew members, snuck on board. Then, as the plane was preparing for take off, a drunk passenger smashed his Cadillac into the nose of the plane. By now, it should have been over. But McNally persisted and demanded a new plane. Once up in the air, McNally jumped into the darkness and disappeared with the cash. This story was produced by Chris Knittel with the Burner Phone Podcast and was written by me, Javier Leiva. --- FEATURED PROMO Oh No! Lit Class Killafornia Dreaming --- MUSIC The Pretend Radio theme song was composed by Joe Basile with thechicken.net Additional music by Blue Dot Session Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may remember Sharon McConnell-Dickerson from episode 8 titled “The Sculptor.” You know, the blind artist who casts the faces of dying blues musicians. When we first recorded that episode, she told me a story that quite frankly was hard to believe. It sounded like something out of a movie. In fact, it should be turned into a movie. It’s one of the most sadistic con artist stories I’ve ever heard. And warning, this episode is pretty dark. So if you don’t like that kinda stuff, you’ve been warned. This is the story of Wild Bill. Wild Bill, who’s real name is William Holbert, had long blonde curly hair and frequently wore a viking helmet. He was 6 feet tall and looked like one of those guys at the gym who’s pumped up on steroids. Wild Bill was also the owner of a Panamanian bar he liked to call the Jolly Rogers Social Club. The bar, which sat off the side of his island property, was a down and dirty watering hole, known for loud parties and the occasional drug use. The decor was simple. Wild Bill flew a flag with skull and bones. And the bar's motto says it all—90% of our members survive. William Holbert, and his wife Laura Reece, were not only the island bar owners. They also had a keen eye for real estate. The strange thing is, every time they closed a deal, the person selling them the property would disappear. Sharon McConnell-Dickerson shares with us the story about her friend Bo Icler and the real estate con that ripped them apart. ----- To learn more about this story, please check out the book titled, "The Jolly Roger Social Club" by Nick Foster. ----- Featured Promos: Moms and Murder The Murder in my Family ----- Theme music composed by Joe Basile with thechicken.net Additional music by Poddington Bear ----- This episode was written and produced by Javier Leiva If you would like to support the show, please leave us a rating on iTunes or donate $1 to our Patreon Page. Also, check out our sweet t-shirts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Guess what? Pretend Radio turns one year old this month. So I thought it would be cool to replay some old guest interviews I've done on other shows. (01:00) Generation Why Podcast Interview - I talk about Vester Flanagan, the reporter who murdered the news crew live on television (14:23) Maurer Glass Podcast Interview - Learn how I find my guests and behind the scenes insights (30:22) The Live Canary Interview - I traded a story for a beer I'll be back soon with a new episode. In the meantime, spread the word. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode "The Babalawo" is about Santeria… the faith, not the song. Unlike the pop tune, not a lot of people know about this mysterious religion. Santería, also known as Regla de Ochá, La Regla de Ifá, or Lucumí, is an Afro-Cuban religion that means the worship of saints. So, you maybe asking yourself, “Javier, where’s the pretend angle here?” Well, this religion in particular gives me the heebie jeebies. I feel like people visit these Santeria priests like if they’re fortune tellers. Are they just taking advantage of people’s emotions or am I discriminating on this faith? Spoiler alert… I’m pretty sure I’m discriminating against their faith. But, I’m better than that right? Are my fears real or is this just a bunch of urban legends? Well, there’s only one way to find out. I need to travel to my hometown of Miami and embed myself in the Santeria community. First, I had to find a babalawo. What’s a babalawo? A babalawo is a Santeria priest who acts as a medium channeling the prophecy from the Orishas. Orishas are spirits who are a manifestation of the supreme God Olodumare. In this episode, we’ll get into the history and origins of Santeria. I also talk with a Santeria priest and priestess to learn more about their secret rituals. -----LIES, LIES, LIES----- Has someone ever lied to you? Have you ever lied to protect someone else? Send me your personal story and I'll post it on my Patreon channel. https://www.patreon.com/pretendradio If you'd like to submit a story, leave me a voicemail at 919-867-1871 or record your story on your smart phone's voice memo app and email it to me at [email protected]. -----MUSIC----- Theme Music composed by Joe Basile from The Chicken Music and Sound Design. Find out more about Joe and The Chicken at www.thechicken.net Additional music by Podington Bear -----PROMOS----- Promos by: Beyond Bizarre Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How does a good cop turn bad? For Ruben Palomares, a former corrupt LAPD Rampart division officer, the process was slow. He went from receiving LAPD’s highest honor to becoming one of the most corrupt cops in US history. Officer Palomares’ story begins with his first undercover assignment. In the late 1980s there was this show called 21 Jump Street. Johnny Depp starred in it. It was about undercover cops, who pretended to be students, in order to bust drug dealers in schools. But did you know that back in the 1994, the Los Angeles police department juvenile narcotics unit actually recruited young officers to infiltrate classrooms in order to investigate drug dealers? They couldn’t just get any cop to fill this undercover role. They needed a fresh face who could blend in with the students. So, they approached officer Ruben Palomares. In 1995, Ruben Palomares got transferred to LAPD’s Rampart Division where he continued to work undercover cases. He was specifically assigned to the anti-gang unit called CRASH. CRASH is an acronym for the Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums. This is when Ruben’s fate will be decided. -----BURNER PHONE PODCAST----- You can find Burner Phone Podcast on Apple Podcast and Twitter. -----MUSIC----- Theme Music composed by Joe Basile from The Chicken Music and Sound Design. Find out more about Joe and The Chicken at www.thechicken.net Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A lie is only powerful if you choose to believe it. So why do we fall for it every time? In this episode, we’ll hear four different stories. Each describes a tall tale, so persistent, that it’s hard to imagine someone keeping all the lies straight in their head. Each one of these stories reminds me of the movie The Truman Show. It seems like everyone I spoke with lived in a world carefully created just for them. Now it’s time to ask you. Have you ever been lied to? Or have you ever told a lie in order to do the right thing? I invite you to share your story on Pretend Radio. If selected, your story will be featured as bonus content on our Patreon channel. Patreon is a way that you can support the show. And who knows, your story could be featured on the main show. If you would like to share your story, record your story using your smartphone voice recording app and email your audio to [email protected]. Or leave me a voice mail at (919) 867-1871. Please try to keep your story under 10 minutes. Don’t forget to leave me your name and a way to contact you. I can’t wait to listen to your stories. Theme Music composed by Joe Basile from The Chicken Music and Sound Design. Find out more about Joe and The Chicken at www.thechicken.net Additional music by: Podington Bear - Bambi Podington Bear - Twosome Podington Bear - Bumble Podington Bear - Suppose it is Thank you to Steven Pacheco with the Trace Evidence Podcast and Nicki T with the Strictly Homicide Podcast for partnering with me on this episode. And I’d love to thank Carly Nichols and Andrea Hill for listening and taking the time to talk with me. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Previously on Pretend Radio, we learned how Art Schlichter’s gambling habits destroyed Anita Barney life. She went from being the wealthy widow of a Wendy’s CEO to becoming broke and struggling to pay her light bill. In part two of The Gambler, we’re going to talk about how Anita went from being Art Schlichter’s victim to his accomplice. You can find Anita Barney's memoir titled "Quarterback Sneak: Exposing the Criminal Game Plan of Art Schlichter" on Amazon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the story of disgraced Ohio State quarterback Art Schlichter. In order to understand Art Schlichter’s crimes, you first have to understand how his story ends. Anita Barney, heiress and widow of a former Wendy’s CEO, lost every single penny her husband left her. Art Schlichter and Anita Barney How did it happen? Art Schlichter gambled away her entire fortune. This episode was written and produced by Javier Leiva Music by: Cylinder Eight by Chris Zabriskie Careless Morning, Bivly, Pxl Eventuat, Pxl Cray, Pxl Ultra by Blue Dot Sessions Bittersweet, Pounded Piano by Podington Bear No More Trap by Audiobinger Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Warning, this episode may be disturbing for some listeners. It describes a shooting that resulted in the death of two people. While this story is not technically about a mass shooting, it has every characteristic of one. This is the story of Bryce Williams, the reporter who murdered Alison Parker and Adam Ward live on television. It turns out Bryce Williams is not his real name. Bryce Williams is just a pseudonym for his on air personality. The killer’s real name is Vester Flanagan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Karl comes from a long line of con men. He says both his grandfather and father were swindlers. It's only natural that Karl slipped into the family business. In today's episode, Karl talks about bribing corrupt company building managers. He says he sold them cheap light bulbs, trash can liners, and cleaning supplies at a premium price. In exchange for buying overpriced products, Karl would send these building managers gifts and cash. He made lots of money working as a B2B telemarketer. He eventually started his own company doing the same scheme. Karl admits that what he was doing was unethical, but surely it wasn't illegal. Finally, he got his answer when the FBI and the Postal Inspector's office showed with a subpoena. Jerri Williams, the FBI agent who busted him, says she could have locked him up right then and there—but she had bigger plans for Karl. ---- Special thanks to Jerri Williams for contributing her episode titled, "Karl LNU." This episode was written and produced by Javier Leiva and Jerri Williams. Subscribe to Pretend Radio: Apple Podcasts: tiny.cc/PretendApplePodcast Google Play: tiny.cc/PretendGooglePlay http://jerriwilliams.com/cooperating-witness-telemarketing-fraud/ You can learn more about Jerri Williams at jerriwilliams.com --- This episode includes promos from the following independent podcasts: -Maurer Glass Podcast -The Breakers Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Candis Cox and her husband Adam live in North Carolina. This is their love story. Their story is unremarkable in many ways. They met at a bar, went on a date, and eventually married after years of dating. What makes this story special is listening to them retell it. But love doesn’t come without sacrifice. This is a story about being your true self, even when the world is making you pretend to be someone else. The boy and the girl was written and produced by Javier Leiva and Wendy Gatlin. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Last time, I spoke with a group of women who drink a bleach-type chemical that they claim cures everything from cancer to depression. I soon discovered that parents are forcefully giving bleach enemas to kids with autism. In this episode, I interview Kerri Rivera, the woman leading this movement, and find out why she thinks this chlorine dioxide treatment is the cure for autism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I stumbled upon a group of people who self-medicate with chlorine dioxide, a bleach like substance. They claim it cures everything from headaches, malaria, HIV, & cancer. In this episode, you'll hear from the man who discovered the "miracle cure" and from the people who take it. Thanks to Chris Cogswell w/ the Mad Scientist Podcast & Dr. Zuckerman with the TOXnow Podcast. toxnow.org/ themadscientistpodcast.com/ The Disgraceland Podcast disgracelandpod.libsyn.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mary Turner Thomas says she married a bigamist. She claims her husband, William Allen Jordan, was involved with 8 different women and fathered 13 kids. At one point, he had two wives, two fiances and a girlfriend on both sides of the Atlantic. William Allen Jordan and Mary Turner Thomson How in the world did Mary not know about these other relationships? How can one man pull off a con this big? It's easy to dismiss Mary as being naive. However, William Jordan was a skilled con man. Once you listen to how they met, and fell in love, it's easy to understand how he could steal her heart. Little did she know he will eventually steal much more than that. Mary says that William conned her out of £200,000. How did he do it? He led her to believe that he was a contractor for the CIA and terrorist were holding his family for ransom. As unbelievable as this sounds, he crafted evidence to back up his claims. Listen to Mary Turner Thomas describe the tactics he used to con her and learn how he finally got caught. This story was originally reported by my friend Lanie Hobbs at the True Crime Fan Club. I highly recommend you check out their show. You can find Mary’s book titled The Bigamist on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3uI9OkS She is also on Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheBigamistBook or at http://maryturnerthomson.com/book-inner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Pretender - Marc Ruskin FBI undercover agent Remember the name Marc Ruskin: because if you run into him, chances are he will introduce himself as Alex Perez, H. Marc Renard, or Sal Morelli – just a few of his FBI undercover personas. Marc Ruskin started his career as an assistant DA in Brooklyn and left it all behind to join the FBI Academy. It didn’t take him long to become an FBI undercover agent. His first big undercover case landed him in Wall Street busting up trading scams. That case went down in flames when a former colleague recognized his true identity and blew his cover. His next assignments proved to be much more dangerous. Marc embedded himself with mobsters, corrupt public officials, terrorists, and powerful drug dealers. Of course, we can’t cover his entire 27 year career here on this podcast. For that you’ll need to check out his new book titled “The Pretender.” It’s a great read. What we will do is talk about a few cases that were so intense, it had me grip the book so tight that I almost fused the pages together. Marc Ruskin’s next assignment was to bust up a fraudulent documents scheme in New York City. I'm not talking about fake IDs – there’s a difference. These fraudulent IDs are the real thing. If a police runs a fraudulent driver’s license, it actually checks out in their database. Marc told me terrorists, mob guys, fugitives were being arrested and had all kinds of real documents in their wallets under fake names. The FBI didn't have any leads. First, they had to find the source of these fraudulent documents. Marc says that some of these fraudulent driver’s licenses were selling for as much as a thousand dollars on the streets. It wasn’t until a tip from a twenty-something-year old man named John Sultan that led the FBI to a shabby travel agency in the Bronx called Holy Land Travel. The travel agency was a front led by Palestinian immigrant named Mahmoud Noubani. The Pretender Marc Ruskin FBI Undercover You can find The Pretender on Amazon.com or at your local bookstore. Also a special thanks out to St. Martin’s Press for letting me share Marc’s story with you. Buy the book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3dRXbgl You can also follow Marc Ruskin on Twitter https://twitter.com/mhruskin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Before Marc Ruskin was an undercover FBI agent, he was an assistant DA in Brooklyn. Why did he give up his career as a powerful attorney to join the FBI academy? Well, in order to prosecute criminals, you have to catch them first. It didn’t take long for Marc to become an undercover agent. For 27 years, he slipped into various different characters busting criminals ranging from drug dealers to Wall Street insiders. At one point, Marc was juggling three or four cases at a time – switching back and forth between identities. He wrote a book about his time at the FBI appropriately titled “The Pretender.” When I first discovered his book I immediately shot him a message. Luckily for me, he agreed to share some of his stories. In the late 80s and early 90s, San Juan Puerto Rico had one of the highest murder rates of any US city. Some of the violence can be blamed on the Machetero, a separatist group actively trying to make Puerto Rico and independent country. Marc: "So I had gone from being an attorney in New York where the biggest thing I had to worry about was a papercut. Now I was in the streets of San Juan Puerto Rico as a combatant to the Macheteros. We learned at one point that the Macheteros had a plot to assassinate an FBI agent. The problem was, we didn’t know who the FBI agent was." Listen to my interview with Marc Ruskin on part 1 of "The Pretender" on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. You can find The Pretender on Amazon.com or at your local bookstore. Purchase Marc Ruskin's autobiography titled The Pretender: https://amzn.to/3dRXbgl Also, you can follow Marc Ruskin on Twitter http://twitter.com/mhruskin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sharon McConnell-Dickerson is preserving the Mississippi Delta blues with her own two hands. She's doing it by creating molds of some of the most influential blues musicians of our time. The lifecasts include a mask of Bobby “Blue” Bland, Little Milton from Memphis, “Honeyboy” Edwards from Chicago, and Pinetop Perkins from Clarksdale, just to name a few – almost 60 musicians total. http://mcconnelldickersonart.com/blues-lifecast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

South Carolina serial killer Todd Kohlhepp confesses to the Superbike Motorsports mass murder. This is part 2 of "The Real Estate Agent." I suggest starting with part 1. It was a Thursday morning. Kohlhepp walked into the Superbike motorsports store and started scoping out the place. He’s not shopping for motorcycle. He’s looking for his next victims. Kohlhepp: "I got there. Not everybody was there. I went in sat on a few bikes, did my usual. Basically buying for time. And doing my best to make sure the paying customers are not there. Collateral damage is not cool. I chose a time when it was not busy. A time after work when I would have a lot of people in there. I did not want to shoot other people. Finally all four show up. From the sound of it nobody else was there." The four people Kohlhepp is referencing are Brian Lucas, Chris Sherbert, Scott Ponder, and Scott’s mother Beverly Guy. Investigator: "When you say all four?" Kohlhepp: "All the four people who work at the bike store. The mechanic, the mom. I was not going for the mom but she was there at the time. Working there. She was thrown into it. She was not a primary target." The store finally cleared. Kohlhepp was the only customer in the store. He tells one of the employees that he’s interested in a certain bike. Kohlhepp: "I cleared that room in under 30 seconds. You guys would have been proud. I’m sorry but you guys would have been proud." This was the crime Kohlhepp got away with. Nobody was looking for him. Why would he confess? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week’s story is about self-professed serial killer Todd Kohlhepp. What’s terrifying about Todd Kohlhepp? He’s not the type of serial killer you see in the movies. He doesn’t collect body parts in his fridge. He doesn’t taunt the media with riddles. He seems like a normal guy who owns a successful real estate company. Listen as his last surviving victim describes how he killed her boyfriend and locked her up in a shipping container for weeks. And that's just the beginning. SUBSCRIBE NOW Apple Podcasts: tiny.cc/PretendApplePodcast Google Play: tiny.cc/PretendGooglePlay Stitcher: tiny.cc/PretendStitcher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Previously on Pretend Radio we witnessed the birth of a con man. A man started his criminal career as a street thug and worked his way up to car insurance scam artist. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part one of the Birth of a Con Man, hear how man became a career criminal—a con-man. First, he started scamming auto insurance companies. Then the con got bigger and more elaborate. You see, that’s how it works. Once a con man gets away with it, they have to do it again. But the next time, the con is bigger and more complex. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the Prophet part 3, we’ll look at the Word of Faith Fellowship from a completely different lens. We’ll hear from current sect members and get their version of the story. Plus, you'll hear the latest on trial against five ministers accused of beating and kidnapping Michael Fenner. If you enjoy the show, consider donating a dollar: https://patreon.com/user?u=5971503&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=creatorshare2 Follow us on: Twitter: @pretend_radio Facebook: www.facebook.com/PretendRadioPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Cooper remembers one of the Word of Faith Fellowship ministers commanding him to beat his wife. He also describes his family’s attempt to what he describes as a cult. Then it finally happened. John escaped. We’ll listen to secret recordings of pastor Jane Whaley trying to lure him back. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

///UPDATE/// Start with Season 3, episode 1. After covering this cult, I was personally invited by the cult leader to spend the day with her. You won't want to miss it. ///UPDATE/// The Prophet part 1 explores The Word of Faith Fellowship. You will hear about the accused cult leader, Pastor Jane Whaley, who many inside the sect believe is a prophet with direct communication with God. John Cooper describes the day 20 to 30 sect members surrounded and attacked him. He also shares secret recordings of Pastor Jane Whaley commanding someone to throw someone down to the ground. Plus, you’ll hear “blasting prayers” — ear-piercing crying sessions meant to cast out demons. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

PRETEND is a documentary-style podcast about con artists and real people pretending to be someone else. Javier Leiva interviews real con artists, snake oil salesmen, and former cult members–anyone living a lie. PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, and New York Magazine. In 2018, Vulture named PRETEND one of the top 52 True Crime podcasts in the U.S. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices