PRETEND

In today's episode, we will talk about how to treat perpetrators of Munchausen by Proxy—if that's even possible. And also, what happens when you suspect a mother of abuse? Should you report it? And what happens if you get it wrong? We're going to get into it all of this. Plus, we'll talk about Hope Ybarra's downfall. Munchausen Support: https://www.munchausensupport.com/resources/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In today's episode, we'll discuss Munchausen by Proxy and how to identify it. And I'm not talking about scandalous stories like the ones you've seen on TV. In fact, we will focus on the less popular cases to show you that this form of abuse is far more common than we even realized. You may know someone who is a victim of Munchausen by proxy and not even realizes it. Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & Netflix. To advertise on our podcast, please reach out to [email protected] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/Pretend and https://www.advertisecast.com/CriminalConduct Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Just when you thought this case couldn't get any crazier. The night before the arraignment, Dr. Gressman's former patient, "Chelsea," starts badgering my followers on Instagram. The tone of her texts are eerily similar to the stalker. Then, Tanya goes on Facebook and makes a surprise announcement. To almost all of her friends' shock and surprise, she announced a new addition. Yes, you read correctly. The night before her court appearance, she let everyone know she was the mother of a brand new baby girl. Where did this child come from? Take a listen for yourself and keep the comments coming. Follow the conversation on Instagram @pretendpod: https://www.instagram.com/pretendpod/?hl=en or on the PRETEND Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/pretendradio Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Note: Tune in to the end of the episode for some breaking news on this case. This series started as a whodunit about a menacing cyberstalker. But in reality, it turned into something else... something far more disturbing. We may all be witnessing medical child abuse in real-time. Munchausen by proxy is a disorder in which a caregiver intentionally causes or exaggerates the medical symptoms of someone in their care to seek attention or sympathy. BINGE ALL 13-EPISODES AD-FREE Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & Netflix. To advertise on our podcast, please reach out to [email protected] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/Pretend and https://www.advertisecast.com/CriminalConduct Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this week's episode, we investigate who may be responsible for the harassing messages sent to the Rodriguez family. The postal inspector and the detectives assigned to the case have their sights set on the oldest daughter, Logan, but at this time, there are no official suspects, and no one has been charged. One thing we can say for sure is that there is no evidence that Dr. Gressman or the husband is involved in any way. Whoever is behind these messages is someone living inside the Rodriguez family's house. It's also worth noting that the Instagram accounts used by the stalker were created using the Rodriguez's IP address and were created before their disabled adult daughter, Chelsea, ever became a patient of Dr. Gressman. With seven people living in that house, there are six possible suspects. In today's episode, we'll be narrowing it down to two. This podcast contains explicit language and mature content that may not be suitable for children. BINGE ALL 13-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the entire season. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & Netflix. To advertise on our podcast, please reach out to [email protected] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/Pretend and https://www.advertisecast.com/CriminalConduct Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Examining the Evidence: Is Someone in the Rodriguez House Responsible for the Stalking? As the investigation into the cyberstalking of the Rodriguez family continues, new information has come to light about the possible culprit. To uncover potential leads, an ethical hacker was brought on to investigate all parties involved in the case, including the alleged stalker, Dr. Grace Gressman, and her husband, John. After a thorough search, it was determined that both the doctor and her husband had no unusual internet activity and were unlikely to be the stalker. However, when the hacker turned their attention to the Rodriguez family, they found something curious. Logan, the oldest adult child of Claudia and David Rodriguez, had 5 active devices. Mishaal Khan, a cyber-security expert, says, "While it may be normal for someone of Logan's age to have multiple devices, it is unusual for someone to have so many." Naturally, this raised some suspicions, but no concrete evidence was found to pinpoint a suspect. At this point, it is clear that John Gressman cannot be the stalker. But with the investigation at a standstill, questions remain about who is behind the threatening messages. Is it possible that Claudia is orchestrating the Stalking herself to gain attention? Could it be her husband, David, or one of their adult children? These questions will be explored in today's episode as the PRETEND host interviews Logan to learn more about her multiple devices. BINGE ALL 10-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & New York Magazine. To advertise on our podcast, please reach out to [email protected] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/Pretend and https://www.advertisecast.com/CriminalConduct Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Munchausen by Proxy Accusations: Is the Rodriguez Family Stalking Themselves? This series started out as a story of cyberstalking, but it has taken an unexpected turn. In the latest episode, we delve into the allegations that Claudia Rodriguez suffers from Munchausen by proxy. This criminal act involves intentionally making one's child sick to gain attention. However, the Rodriguez family fiercely denies these accusations, calling it victim blaming. Instead, they insist they are like any other family dealing with disabled children. Are the Rodriguezes Responsible for Their Own Harassment? The detective on the case has revealed some disturbing new information. The Instagram accounts used to harass the Rodriguez family were created months before they were even the doctor's patients, and the IP addresses all point back to their own home address. This raises the question of whether the Rodriguezes could be behind the Stalking. To help get to the bottom of this case, we listen in on a conversation with the detective and bring in an ethical hacker and cybersecurity expert to thoroughly investigate all parties involved. Will the ethical hacker uncover any new evidence that can shed light on this complex and confusing case? BINGE ALL 10-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show. Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & New York Magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. Grace Gressman speaks out about the Rodriguez family stalking case In today's episode, we finally hear from Dr. Grace Gressman, the woman at the center of the Rodriguez family's cyberstalking saga. Despite having her statements in the police report, Javier calls her up to get her side of the story. To everyone's surprise, she picked up the phone. But that's not all. To get to the bottom of this case, Javier also confronts the alleged stalker himself. It's a bold move that could potentially reveal the true identity of the person behind the threatening messages that have terrorized the Rodriguez family for years. What does Dr. Gressman say about the allegations against her and her husband? And what does the stalker have to say when confronted by Javier? BINGE ALL 10-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & New York Magazine. To advertise on our podcast, please reach out to [email protected] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/Pretend and https://www.advertisecast.com/CriminalConduct Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Doctor and Husband Cleared as Suspects in Rodriguez Stalking Case The Rodriguez family has been the target of a cyberstalker for over three years. Despite their efforts to involve the police and find help, the stalking has continued until this day. In fact, the detectives and postal inspector assigned to their case have even accused their oldest daughter of being the perpetrator, despite their claim of her having a solid alibi. However, the stalker has identified himself as Dr. Gressman's husband, John Gressman. Recently, the Rodriguez family received a voicemail from a detective working on their case. The detective stated that Dr. Gressman was the actual victim in this investigation and that the threatening phone calls made by the cyberstalker were produced inside Rodriguez's home. The detective also mentioned that the investigation is ongoing and that Dr. Gressman and her husband are not suspects. Despite this, the Rodriguez family is convinced that John Gressman is behind the Stalking. Claudia Rodriguez stated, "He scares me. He scares me, and they already think I'm the one doing it. And I feel I'm one step away from having the cops visit here." In the latest episode of the "Pretend" podcast, the tension between the Gressman and Rodriguez families reaches a boiling point. The host even attempts to go toe-to-toe with the stalker to provoke a reaction and potentially reveal their identity. However, as the case continues, it becomes increasingly clear that this situation is complex, confusing, and far from over. BINGE ALL 10-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & New York Magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cyberstalker Resumes Harassment of Rodriguez Family, Targets Infant Daughter After months of peace, the cyberstalker who has been tormenting Claudia and David Rodriguez for years has returned. This time, the stalker has directed his rage toward his own infant daughter, causing great concern and fear for the child's safety. Rodriguez Family Reports Alleged Abuse to Child Protective Services In response to this disturbing development, the Rodriguezes have reported the alleged abuse to child protective services. They've also contacted the medical board in hopes of stripping Dr. Gressman from her medical license. This situation is maddening. The Rodriguezes hoped to find a sense of normalcy and safety. Instead, more fear and uncertainty have consumed everyone's lives. It's unclear at this time what actions child protective services will take, but it is clear that the Rodriguez family is not backing down. BINGE ALL 10-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & New York Magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Stalker part 5 Claudia and David Rodriguez have five children, four of whom are adults, and most have severe medical or mental health issues. Two of their adult children are so disabled that the Rodriguezes have guardianship over them, meaning they have no rights. One child has undergone multiple surgeries, including spinal cord surgery, brain surgery, and stomach stoma surgery. The Rodriguez family has faced accusations from their daughter's neurologist, Dr. Grisman, accusing Claudia of having Munchausen by proxy, a disorder in which a caregiver intentionally causes or exaggerates the medical symptoms of someone in their care. Claudia vehemently denies these claims, stating that she is a mother who would do anything for her children and that others shouldn't judge her unless they have been in her shoes. Despite their claims of innocence, the authorities suspect that Rodriguez's oldest daughter, Logan, is the one sending the Stalking messages. However, Claudia and David say this is impossible as Logan was in a mental health facility without access to any devices when the Stalking started up again. In this podcast episode, we discuss this complex and confusing case that poses the question, who is behind these threatening messages? BINGE ALL 10-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & New York Magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rodriguez Family Fights to Prove Daughter's Innocence in the face of Stalking Accusations For over three years, Claudia and David Rodriguez have been dealing with the terror of being stalked. Despite their efforts to involve the police and get help, the Stalking has continued to this day. In fact, the detectives and even the postal inspector assigned to their case have accused their oldest daughter of being the perpetrator, despite her claiming to have a solid alibi. BINGE ALL 10-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, Discovery+, & Netlfix. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From Victims to Suspects: The Bizarre Turn of Events in the Rodriguez Family's Cyber Stalking Case In the world of cyberstalking, it's not uncommon for victims to have an idea of who their perpetrator might be. It could be an ex-partner, a disgruntled employee, or even an obsessed friend. But for Claudia and David Rodriguez, the situation was much more complex. For the past three years, they've been the victims of a cyber stalker who claims to be the husband of their daughter's doctor, a man they've never even met. The messages started off benign but quickly turned sadistic and threatening. Despite their efforts to report the harassment and seek help from the authorities, the Rodriguez family faced disbelief and suspicion. In this podcast episode, we'll explore the mysterious case of the Rodriguez family's cyber stalker and how a simple IP address couldn't provide all the answers. BINGE ALL 10-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & New York Magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Harassed by a Cyber Stalker Claiming to be the Doctor's Husband: The Strange Story of Claudia and David Rodriguez Claudia and David Rodriguez claim they have been the victims of a cyber stalker for the past three years. The person behind the messages claims to be the husband of Claudia's daughter's doctor, a man they've never even met. As bizarre as this situation sounds, it's been a constant source of harassment and anxiety for the Rodriguez family. In this podcast episode, we'll delve into the strange story of Claudia and David Rodriguez, including their ongoing battle with a mysterious cyber stalker and the surprising twist that led to them being accused of stalking. BINGE ALL 10-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & New York Magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Couple terrorized by a sadistic cyber stalker for years For more than three years, Claudia and David Rodriguez (not their real names) have been the targets of a sadistic cyber stalker. Despite their attempts to involve the police and stop the stalking, it has continued to this day. In fact, the couple has faced accusations from the very detectives assigned to their case. One detective suggests that Claudia may have a split personality and is causing the stalking herself. BINGE ALL 10-EPISODES Patreon Listen to the first 10 episodes. Plus...Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Binge the entire season with ad-free episodes plus bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Follow Pretend on social media: Twitter TikTok YouTube PRETEND is consistently in the top True Crime Podcasts about con artists in U.S., UK, Canada, and Australia. It has been featured in the New York Times, the BBC, & Netflix. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the story about a Christmas con artist pretending to be Santa Claus. Brian Earl, the host of the Christmas Past podcast, joins me to tell a little-known true-crime holiday story. Christmas Past The seventh season of Christmas Past is out. Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, Brian shares the fascinating backstories behind our favorite holiday traditions. Looking for a last-minute gift idea? Buy the Christmas Past book. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Prank series inspired the new Netflix documentary series "Don't Pick Up the Phone." This docuseries follows the investigation into a hoax caller who talked managers into strip-searching employees at fast food businesses across the US. Binge the entire series on Netflix starting December 14th: https://www.netflix.com/title/81576846 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Larry Douglas Jones is not your typical fugitive. He had a wife and three kids. And to be honest, he's not a dangerous man. He became overwhelmed with life and decided to run away. This is the first in a series of stories about fugitives. In season 4, we explore how abandoning your old identity leads to a whole set of complications. How do these criminals assume a new identity? What strategies do they use to avoid getting caught? _______________ This episode was 100% funded by you. I was able to travel to Gulfport, MS for this story using funds raised on Patreon. So if you’d like to see me to take the show on the road, consider chipping in a buck or two on our Patreon page. Plus, you’ll get access to early episodes and bonus content. So, thank you so much for the support. _______________ Lies, lies, and more lies A few seasons ago, I asked you to submit stories about lies. Either lies that you’ve told or lies that have impacted you personally. And boy, was the response crazy! I ended up making a whole episode dedicated to lies. I want to try it again. Email me a voice memo. Chances are your story could make it on the show. ------- Story idea? If you have a story to share, email Javier a voice memo or short written description at [email protected]. For more episodes like this, visit pretendradio.org. To get early releases and bonus episodes, go to pretendradio.org/donate Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I started this podcast, I reported on a secretive church in the foothills of western North Carolina called the Word of Faith Fellowship. The church, accused of being a cult, separates families—forcing them to break ties with non-believers. A history of documented abuse One teenager named Matthew Fenner pressed charges against five church ministers because he said they beat the gay demons out of him. And that’s just the beginning. Several former members remember spending weeks and months in forced isolation. Some male congregants say they lived in a makeshift storage unit for over a year. Locals know them best for their signature style of prayer—blasting. As you can hear in this secret audio recording, blasting is a form of deliverance meant to cast out the devil. Word of Faith Fellowship Revisited The episode you’re about to listen to is my first 3 episodes rolled into one. To listen to my 11-part series on the Word of Faith Fellowship, start here: https://pretendradio.org/episode/who-is-jane-whaley-word-of-faith-fellowship/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Browning investigates real blood-sucking vampires—people who need human blood to survive. In today's episode, we will talk about real people who claim to be real vampires. Self-harm You know, we bantered about tapping into veins and arteries from the vantage point of vampires feasting on blood. But if you remove the word vampire from our conversation, it starts sounding like a much more familiar crisis...self-harm. It's not uncommon for some of us with depression or anxiety to inflict pain on ourselves. The physical wounds hurt, but it's nowhere near as painful as the emotions inside our heads and hearts. So if you're listening to this, there are different places you can seek help. First, talk to a pro. You can use online counselors like BetterHelp, a real-life therapist, or even reach out to a friend. There are also crisis lines where you can text and talk to an actual human for free. Text HOME to 741741, Again text HOME to 741741. I'll have a list of numbers you can text for my international friends in the show notes. https://www.crisistextline.org/ Get Help US: Text 741741 CA: Text 741741 UK: Text 85258 Ireland: 50808 Sophrpsyne Music featured in this episode is from Sophrosyne. Check out their music on Spotify. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On September 12, 2022, Frank Abagnale was honored with a Heroes in Ethics award at Xavier University. An ethics award for a conman! Unlike the general public, who were spellbound by the myth surrounding Abagnale's life, Xavier University knew precisely who they were honoring that night. They can't claim ignorance because I wrote the University and told them they had the wrong guy. Frank Abagnale doesn't deserve an ethics award. He lied about his entire life story. Was Malala busy that week? She deserves an ethics award. But despite knowing the truth, Xavier University went along with their little ethics ceremony anyway. Xavier University's mission is built on moral and ethical responsibility- that's what it says on its website. And out of all the people in the world making a difference, they chose to honor a guy who ripped off his girlfriend and is accused of feeling up college girls pretending to be a doctor-slash pilot recruiter. But, seriously, did they even read this guy's Wikipedia page? Picture a room full of business students, professors, lawyers, accountants, and even current members of the FBI eagerly awaiting Frank Abagnale's Heroes in Ethics acceptance speech. Little does Frank Abagnale know that Jim Grinstead, host of the Scams and Cons podcast, was in the audience. Jim planned to confront Frank Abagnale during the Q&A portion of the ceremony. Get Member-only bonus episodes, t-shirts, stickers, and more. Support PRETEND on Patreon Listen to ad-free episodes and bonus interviews that didn't make it on the show Subscribe to PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if I told you that Frank Abagnale wasn't the only con artist in his family? His older brother used multiple aliases, faked his career as a therapist, and was even accused of kidnapping a 7-year-old girl. This episode reveals the dark and puzzling secrets of Frank Abagnale's family history. Correction: In the episode, I mention that Susan was married to Roy Abagnale from 1970 to 1978 - but it was actually 1978 to 1992. __________ Bonus episodes Sleepover with Leo: https://www.patreon.com/posts/sleepover-with-71435815?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator Pernilla busted the Tinder Swindler. Hear her thoughts on Frank Abagnale https://www.patreon.com/posts/pernilla-busted-72501591?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator __________ Have you followed PRETEND on TikTok and Instagram? Help me start a trending sound. Use this sound of Frank Abagnale denying writing his book, movie, and Broadway play: https://www.tiktok.com/@pretendpod/video/7145467873979338030?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 Here are some examples: https://www.tiktok.com/@pretendpod/video/7145483295080385835?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 https://www.tiktok.com/@pretendpod/video/7145536351801462062?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 https://www.tiktok.com/@pretendpod/video/7145816794819841326?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This series is not just a story about a con man who lied about his past experiences. No, it's much bigger than that. This series is about correcting history. For decades, we've celebrated Frank Abagnale's life. He's invaded our living rooms in countless tv interviews. He's had Leonardo DiCaprio play him in a movie. John Williams even scored his superhero theme song. And his life has even been turned into a musical that one reviewer wrote: "is an amazing true story with a happy ending we all need." But it turns out that America's favorite con man is really just another petty criminal who's never really repaid all the money he stole. But if we zoom out, this is the story of the spread of misinformation. Where politicians and other grifters have taken a page out of Abagnale's book and learned that if they repeat multiple lies over and over, most people won't question it. And they can get away with it. Frank claims he evaded the FBI for five years. They couldn't catch him even if they tried. Sure, he admits he finally got arrested, but in his version of the story, he's the hero working undercover for the FBI. I may not believe his account, but I think he won in the end. The guy is in his mid-70s, lives in a multi-million-dollar island home, and makes a pre-school teacher's annual salary every time he takes the stage. He made it! And besides his alleged victims, no one seems to question his success. He fooled us all. And he would have gotten away with too, if it weren't for this meddling kid and his scrappy friend from Belfast. (The Irish guy is Alan Logan, the author of The Greatest Hoax on Earth.) We're on a mission to set the record straight. So that when you ask someone if they know who Frank Abagnale is, Instead of it being based on a true story, they'll tell you that he made it all up. Abagnale may have been on the run for the last 50 to 40 years, getting away with his biggest lie. But guess what? We caught him. Listen to part 6 of The Real Catch Me If You Can, then send me a voice memo with your thoughts on this series. Your audio could make it on the show. Email me at [email protected]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I confronted Frank Abagnale in Las Vegas, NV. He claims he posed as a pilot, a lawyer, a doctor, and a professor from the age of sixteen to twenty-one years old. But how is that possible if he was sitting in prison most of that time? You won't believe his response. _______ Watch the Abagnale saga unfold: YouTube - search for Pretend Podcast TikTok - @pretendpod Instagram - @pretendpod ______ Support PRETEND Podcast on Patreon: -Get early access to episodes -Bonus content -Stickers and t-shirts! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We've spent the last three episodes debunking the infamous Frank Abagnale myth. If he wasn't posing as a doctor, a lawyer, or a professor, then what the heck was Frank Abagnale up to? This is the story Abagnale never talks about. _______ Part 5 will be available soon on Patreon. https://pretendradio.org/donate/ _______ Fact-checking for this episode by Kate Gallagher. Special thanks to Alan Logan, author of The Greatest Hoax on Earth: Catching Truth, While We Can Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/173619741X/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_5EAWP7S0XC5J1WJQF2D5 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two reporters destroy Frank Abagnale's story. Yet nobody cared. _______ Listen to part 4 right now on Patreon: https://pretendradio.org/donate/ Special Thanks to: Fact-checking for this episode by Kate Gallagher. Special thanks to Alan Logan, author of The Greatest Hoax on Earth: Catching Truth, While We Can Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/173619741X/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_5EAWP7S0XC5J1WJQF2D5 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Frank Abagnale claims he never stole money from the little guy—it was all victimless crimes. But that's not what I found. Hear the story of one family who says they were robbed blind by Abagnale. _______ Fact-checking for this episode by Kate Gallagher. Special thanks to Alan Logan, author of The Greatest Hoax on Earth: Catching Truth, While We Can Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/173619741X/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_5EAWP7S0XC5J1WJQF2D5 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This might be my favorite PRETEND series of all time. Remember the movie Catch Me If You Can? Most people believe the film is based on a true story. But, did you know it's mostly made up? I spent the last few weeks and months pouring over court records, police reports, and other documents to prove that Frank Abagnale faked his entire life story. It turns out that the real story behind Catch Me If You Can is actually a lot more fascinating than the one you thought you knew. _______ Fact-checking for this episode by Kate Gallagher. Special thanks to Alan Logan, author of The Greatest Hoax on Earth: Catching Truth, While We Can Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/173619741X/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_5EAWP7S0XC5J1WJQF2D5 _______ Jordan Harbinger Search for The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if I told you that 90% of Frank Abagnale's claims are totally made up? Yeah, that's right. The most extraordinary con man in the world never actually did the crimes he claims he did. In the new season of PRETEND, host Javier Leiva debunks Frank Abagnale’s claims one by one, not with opinions but with court and prison records. This series also gives voice to new victim testimonies. In the end, Leiva travels to Las Vegas to confront Abagnale about his lies. This is the real-life Catch Me If You Can. Listen to part 1 now on Apple Podcast and Spotify. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fred Brito posed as a priest in order to hide from law enforcement. Find out how he ALMOST got away with it. __________ Follow PRETEND on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. __________ True Crime Podcast Festival 2022 in Dallas, TX We’re excited to announce that Criminal Conduct is going to be attending the True Crime Podcast Festival on August 26-28th in Dallas, Texas. The Festival is specially designed around your desire to mingle, interact, and have casual conversations with the podcasters you listen to regularly. There will also be panel discussions and live episodes you can’t hear anywhere else! Go to the website Truecrimepodcastfestival.com to find information on tickets and the hotel. Prices do go up the closer we get to the event so you won’t want to wait. I’ll see you at the True Crime Podcast Festival! __________ Listen to a preview for the Stolen Lives Podcast at the end of the episode: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fred Brito worked as a psychiatrist, priest, and a Red Cross fundraiser—but it was all based on lies. ______________ Follow PRETEND on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. ______________ True Crime Podcast Festival 2022 in Dallas, TX We’re excited to announce that Criminal Conduct is going to be attending the True Crime Podcast Festival on August 26-28th in Dallas, Texas. The Festival is specially designed around your desire to mingle, interact, and have casual conversations with the podcasters you listen to regularly. There will also be panel discussions and live episodes you can’t hear anywhere else! Go to the website Truecrimepodcastfestival.com to find information on tickets and the hotel. Prices do go up the closer we get to the event so you won’t want to wait. I’ll see you at the True Crime Podcast Festival! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Berry took an at-home DNA test and discovered dozens of half-siblings. Was this a coincidence or the scheme of one sperm donor? ______________ True Crime Podcast Festival 2022 in Dallas, TX We’re excited to announce that Criminal Conduct is going to be attending the True Crime Podcast Festival on August 26-28th in Dallas, Texas. The Festival is specially designed around your desire to mingle, interact, and have casual conversations with the podcasters you listen to regularly. There will also be panel discussions and live episodes you can’t hear anywhere else! Go to the website Truecrimepodcastfestival.com to find information on tickets and the hotel. Prices do go up the closer we get to the event so you won’t want to wait. I’ll see you at the True Crime Podcast Festival! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Does death start when your heart stops beating? What if technology can extend our lives and gives us immortality? Today's episode is about one son who turned his dying father into a chatbot. Here After AI https://www.hereafter.ai/ Replika https://replika.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we're talking about deepfakes. Deepfakes are video or audio of a person in which their face, body, and/or voice has been digitally altered so that they appear to be someone else. And we're not just talking about some harmless Snapchat filters. This tech can start wars and destroy lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Luxxury rips apart your favorite songs. Check out his TikTok feed for more videos on interpolation. https://www.tiktok.com/@luxxuryxx/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lauren Passell, the founder of Tink Media, interviews Javier in celebration of PRETEND's 100th episode. Subscribe to Lauren's incredible podcast newsletter: https://podcastthenewsletter.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Season 2 of PRETEND, I covered the story of a serial killer who murdered at least five American ex-pats. Three years after the story aired, I received a message from a listener who said she could put me in touch with the killer. I decided to turn my interviews with Wild Bill into an entire season of CRIMINAL CONDUCT. Listen to part 1 of Criminal Conduct season 3 then subscribe to listen to the rest: https://linktr.ee/criminalconduct Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rebekah Sebastian and Javier Leiva visit businesses run by cults. Also, what happens when a cult leader dies or goes to prison? Can the cult go on without its leader? Find out which cults are trying to continue the organization without any clear leadership. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cults are businesses too. Like any company, cults recruit, have middle management, and some even have succession plans. Many of these religious sects are tax-exempt. Like Scientology, even some fringe religions are recognized by the Internal Revenue Service. Not all cults are religious. At first glance, some cults don't seem culty at all. For example, take a closer look at businesses such as multi-level marketing companies. These companies are masquerading as a business, but in reality, they're run by narcissistic ego-maniacs. The Cult Startup Like businesses, cults go through different phases. First, there's a startup phase where an entrepreneurial cult leader leads a movement and brings new innovative and revolutionary ideas. Take, for example, Jim Jones, leader of the People's Temple. In the beginning, he integrated his congregation during the Civil Rights Movement. After that, he was heavily involved in politics and social activism. The allure was undeniable. But in the end, Jones ordered 909 commune members to end their lives. The Cult Franchise Then, there comes the point where the cult needs to expand its Business and influence. Take, for example, The Twelve Tribes religious sect. This organization, widely considered a cult, operates several businesses worldwide. I visited one of their Yellow Deli restaurants for the second installment of this series. The Cult Exit Strategy If you're not evolving, you're dying. And sometimes, literally dying. So, what happens when a cult becomes too big to fail? Some morally bankrupt cult leaders resort to mass suicide. Other cults grow so big and fast that they become worldwide institutional organizations. The Business of Cults The Business of Cults is a three-part series hosted by Rebekah Sebastian with the DIELAOGUE Podcast and Javier Leiva of PRETEND podcast. Part one focuses on The C Suite: Chief Cult Executives. Part two features an interview with former NXIVM member Sarah Edmondson. And Part three explores the question, can a cult survive without its leader? Listen to part two now on Patreon. Buy the t-shirt for this week's episode. Collage art by @kelletteworks https://pretend-radio-3.creator-spring.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cults are businesses too. Like any company, cults recruit, have middle management, and some even have succession plans. Many of these religious sects are tax-exempt. Like Scientology, even some fringe religions are recognized by the Internal Revenue Service. Not all cults are religious. At first glance, some cults don't seem culty at all. For example, take a closer look at businesses such as multi-level marketing companies. These companies are masquerading as a business, but in reality, they're run by narcissistic ego-maniacs. The Cult Startup Like businesses, cults go through different phases. First, there's a startup phase where an entrepreneurial cult leader leads a movement and brings new innovative and revolutionary ideas. Take, for example, Jim Jones, leader of the People's Temple. In the beginning, he integrated his congregation during the Civil Rights Movement. After that, he was heavily involved in politics and social activism. The allure was undeniable. But in the end, Jones ordered 909 commune members to end their lives. The Cult Franchise Then, there comes the point where the cult needs to expand its Business and influence. Take, for example, The Twelve Tribes religious sect. This organization, widely considered a cult, operates several businesses worldwide. I visited one of their Yellow Deli restaurants for the second installment of this series. The Cult Exit Strategy If you're not evolving, you're dying. And sometimes, literally dying. So, what happens when a cult becomes too big to fail? Some morally bankrupt cult leaders resort to mass suicide. Other cults grow so big and fast that they become worldwide institutional organizations. The Business of Cults The Business of Cults is a three-part series hosted by Rebekah Sebastian with the DIELAOGUE Podcast and Javier Leiva of PRETEND podcast. Part one focuses on The C Suite: Chief Cult Executives. Part two features an interview with former NXIVM member Sarah Edmondson. And Part three explores the question, can a cult survive without its leader? Listen to part two now on Patreon. Buy the t-shirt for this week's episode. Collage art by @kelletteworks https://pretend-radio-3.creator-spring.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm working on a new series on cults that's really exciting. While you wait, here's a fun little bonus episode for you. Moxie LaBouche, host of the Your Brain on Facts podcast, and I talk about our favorite scams. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this podcast episode A conversation with Jack Barsky, a former KGB spy. For 10 years, Jack Barsky was a sleeper agent spying for the Soviet Union. His job was to obtain secret or confidential information from inside the United States any way he could. The KGB Spy Jack Barsky spied on the United States from 1978 to 1988. And that entire time, his primary mission was to become an American. And that's precisely what he did. He moved to New York City, got a job as a computer programmer, and lived an unremarkable life. He made friends and other relationships while being Moscow's eyes and ears. But his clandestine mission as a sleeper agent was bound to end. "The KGB, for some reason, got spooked and thought my cover was blown," said Barsky. The message was clear. Jack Barsky was exposed and needed to return to Moscow. Double agent Jack Barsky's birth name is Albrecht Dittrich. When he first joined the KGB, he didn't see himself as a spy. Instead, he and other recruits thought of themselves as scouts for peace. The spies are the enemies of the West. The KGB spy living the American Dream Jack Barsky never intended for his story to get out. So for 10 years, Barsky assumed the identity of a dead child. He took the boy's name, birth certificate, and social security number. The mission was to infiltrate, extract secrets and get out. But eventually, his years as a sleeper agent were exposed to the world. Hear the true story of this KGB's spy career came to an end. Special Thanks to Kellette Elliott for the custom collage artwork. Purchase a t-shirt with this episode's artwork here. Story idea? If you have a story to share, email Javier at info [at] pretendradio [dot] org. For more episodes like this, visit pretendradio.org. To get early releases and bonus episodes, go to pretendradio.org/donate Today's episode was written and edited by Javier Leiva Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

WARNING: This episode contains details about Santa Claus that younger listeners will not appreciate. If you have little ones around, plugin your headphones. Happy Holidays, everyone! Javier Check out the Christmas Past podcast with Brian Earl for more magical fun listening. https://christmaspast.media/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Mack, a respected Harvard psychologist, uses hypnosis to recover memories of alien abductions. Alien abductions and hypnosis Like they say on the X-files, "the truth is out there." Throughout history, people claimed to have seen many unexplainable things. Some have tangible proof, like the leaked U.S. Navy cock pit videos chasing unidentified flying objects. Other experiencers don't have any evidence at all. The only thing they have are their memories. Maybe the answer is buried deep in our subconscious? In today's episode, we'll introduce you to a Harvard professor who used hypnosis to help people recover memories from possible alien abductions. Sure, there are people out there who claim they encountered beings from another planet just to seek attention. But, others carry these experiences in secret. John Mac and psychology of alien abductions John Mack was a respected Harvard psychologist who became fixated with people claiming to have been abducted or encountered alien beings. Ralph Blumenthal recently wrote John Mack's biography titled, "Believer: Alien Encounters, hard science, and the passion of John Mack." Blumenthal says that at first, Dr. John Mack tried to explain these encounters through other means. First, are these people insane? Are they hucksters looking to make some money? But Dr. Mack found their stories to be credible. Most of his patients never came out publicly with their stories. Instead, they sought his help to grapple with their tormented past. In the 1990s, John Mack conducted hundreds of interviews with men and women of all ages who claimed they had not just one but recurring alien encounters. And one method he used during these interviews was hypnosis. Alien abductions or sleep paralysis? Maybe there's a more straightforward medical explanation for all of this. What if some people weren't experiencing an abduction but sleep paralysis? Sleep paralysis is that feeling you get when you're in between sleep and being awake. You're awake, but you can't control or move your body. Studies have shown that Sleep paralysis is much more common than we think. Studies suggest at least 40 percent or 50 percent of all people experience sleep paralysis at least once. However, John Mack argues that his patients did not experience sleep. Instead, many of his patients experienced encounters in daylight and were wide awake. Special Thanks to Kellette Elliott for the custom collage artwork You can purchase the Hypnotist t-shirt here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Is hypnosis used in criminal investigations? Believe it or not, law enforcement and intelligence agencies in the US routinely use hypnosis as a form of forensic evidence. And in some states, evidence gained from forensic hypnosis is admissible in court. Even the federal government allows hypnosis under certain circumstances. What is investigative hypnosis? When law enforcement hits a dead end, they sometimes rely on investigative hypnosis to solve the case. Specially trained law enforcement officers guide witnesses into a hypnotic trance to better recall a crime. But are the memories they recall even accurate? Medical experts say memories recovered after hypnosis can't be considered fact. Texas leads the country in investigative hypnosis. Many states ban the practice because its use leads to wrongful convictions. But one state leads the country in prosecuting citizens using hypnosis as a primary form of evidence. That state is Texas. The Dallas Daily News reports that at least 11 people in Texas were executed in cases where police used hypnosis. Today, 4 people are on Texas death row because of this practice. The Memory Room Dave Boucher and Lauren Mcgaughy are investigative reporters who spent more than a year investigating the story you're about to listen to. Their two-part series is titled "The Memory Room." It's about the case of Helen Barbre, a Texas college student who was savagely attacked in the middle of the night. She couldn't recognize her attacker, so she used hypnosis to identify him. Here's a link to their series titled "The Memory Room": https://interactives.dallasnews.com/2020/memory-room-dallas-texas-police-use-investigative-hypnosis-to-convict-life-death-row/ Featured Promo: Caper - An Original Multilingual True Crime Series Special Thanks to: Kellette Elliott for the custom collage artwork You can purchase the Hypnotist t-shirt here To advertise on this show visit: https://www.advertisecast.com/Pretend Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I got hypnotized to recall a childhood trauma. In part one of The Hypnotist, I interviewed several hypnotherapists to answer the question: what is hypnosis? The short answer is a trancelike state that resembles sleep but is induced by a person whose suggestions are readily accepted by the subject.* In part two, I try hypnosis for myself to see what all the fuss is about. You see, when I was 8-months old, I pulled the cord of an electric rice cooker and suffered 3rd-degree burns on the left side of my body. I don’t remember a thing. In this episode, I’ll let you listen to my hypnotic regression session. Then, hear for yourself if I was able to recover these lost memories. Special Thanks to Kellette Elliott for the custom collage artwork You can purchase the Hypnotist t-shirt here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I want to undergo hypnotic regression, experience it for myself, and try to unlock memories from my childhood that should probably never resurface. Can hypnosis help me recover that memory? So, what the hell is hypnosis anyway? What is hypnosis? Is hypnosis even a real thing? The word "hypno" comes from the Greek word "hypnus," which means sleep. And the suffix "osis" describes a process or state. So, is hypnosis a state of hibernation? Or is it something in between? looked it up. Webster's dictionary states that hypnosis is "a trancelike state that resembles sleep but is induced by a person whose suggestions are readily accepted by the subject." Another dictionary says that hypnosis is "the induction of a state of consciousness." A person apparently loses the power of voluntary action and is highly responsive to suggestion or direction. It makes it sound like the person under hypnosis is some kind of puppet. But maybe these dictionaries have it all wrong? What if hypnosis was another word for relaxation or meditation? I guess my point is that two freaking dictionaries can't agree on a definition; how are we supposed to know what it really is? Can regression therapy help you remember a forgotten memory? Regression therapy is a hypnotic treatment that focuses on recovering lost memories that are getting in the way of our everyday lives. When I was 8 months old, I burned almost 30% of my body. I'm sure no one really knew if I was going to make it. One study shows that children younger than 48 months with burns on more than 30% of the body surface had a higher mortality rate than adults with identical injuries. But survival rates after a burn have significantly improved over the years. Even children with more significant burns can survive. I've imagined this accident over and over in my head all of my life. Ever since I can remember, I've wondered what it was like. I know; it's morbid. But I've been curious. So, I contacted a local hypnotherapist to see if he could help me access these lost memories. But how do you access memories from when you were a toddler? Ask any medical professional or psychologist, and they will tell you that most adults can't remember anything before their third birthday. It's called Childhood Amnesia. That's because the hippocampus, the part of the brain that helps us recall life experiences, hasn't fully developed. Another reason is that kids don't start really talking until about three. This podcast is about deception. Typically, the stories are about someone else pulling the wool over our eyes. But when it comes to hypnosis, is our mind the one playing tricks on us? Listen to part 2 now on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/posts/hypnotist-part-2-58412331 Have you undergone hypnosis? Send me a voice memo with your story at [email protected]. Special Thanks to Kellette Elliott for the custom collage artwork You can purchase the Hypnotist t-shirt here Preview Ravi Patil's new podcast Institrve wherever you get your podcasts institrve.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Browning investigates real blood-sucking vampires—people who need human blood to survive. In today's episode, we will talk about real people who claim to be real vampires. Self-harm You know, we bantered about tapping into veins and arteries from the vantage point of vampires feasting on blood. But if you remove the word vampire from our conversation, it starts sounding like a much more familiar crisis...self-harm. It's not uncommon for some of us with depression or anxiety to inflict pain on ourselves. The physical wounds hurt, but it's nowhere near as painful as the emotions inside our heads and hearts. So if you're listening to this, there are different places you can seek help. First, talk to a pro. You can use online counselors like BetterHelp, a real-life therapist, or even reach out to a friend. There are also crisis lines where you can text and talk to an actual human for free. Text HOME to 741741, Again text HOME to 741741. I'll have a list of numbers you can text for my international friends in the show notes. https://www.crisistextline.org/ Get Help US: Text 741741 CA: Text 741741 UK: Text 85258 Ireland: 50808 Sophrpsyne Music featured in this episode is from Sophrosyne. Check out their music on Spotify. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael shreds a mean "pretend" guitar. He's also a PRETEND podcast supporter on Patreon. If you want to co-host an episode with me, consider supporting the podcast on Patreon/ Patreon Guest Co-host: https://www.patreon.com/pretendradio Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lee King spilled the beans on his family's secret—leading to his father’s arrest. Hannah’s boyfriend, Lee King, is hiding a big secret; and it’s not just about his multiple fiances. It turns out his father, “Fast” Eddie Maher is an international fugitive. Fast Eddie, an international fugitive, was on the run for 20 years until his son gave him up. Today’s episode was brought to us by a long-time PRETEND listener, Kim Evans. Kim knew her daughter’s new boyfriend was no good. So, she did everything in her power to expose him. It turns out, he was hiding a secret that would eventually lead to the arrest of his father, Eddie Maher. What’s your PRETEND story? If you have a story to tell, do what Kim Evans did and send me an email at info [at] pretendradio [dot] org. You never know; your story could make it on the show. The Christmas Lie Also, I’m working on a Christmas episode. Do you remember when you learned about the big lie? You know, the one about the big guy who magically squeezes down the chimney at night and leaves gifts for children all over the world? You know which lie I’m talking about. If you have a fun Christmas story, send it my way. Thank you for your support Also, I want to thank Alex, Beth Cail and Corey Trevorson for supporting the show. I really couldn’t do this show without you. Want to help keep PRETEND going? Buy me a coffee or throw a few dollars in the hat, head on over to patreon.com/pretendradio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices