334: More Mental Health, but With Jay Miller This Time

More Mental Health, But With Jay Miller This Time

[00:00:00] Jay: Hey all you cool cats, parakeets, llamas, and alpacas, you’re listening to Overtired. Uh, I am your overtaking host, Jay Miller, and with me are my beautiful co host Jeff Severance Gunsel, and the mad genius of the internet himself, Brett Terpstra.

[00:00:19] Jeff: How did you get ahold of our demographic, uh, report?

[00:00:22] Jay: Oh, I mean, you know, if you listen to one podcast, you listen to all of

[00:00:25] Jeff: Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. Hi, Jay.

[00:00:29] Jay: Hey!

[00:00:30] Jeff: And we do not have Christina here today, although we’re committed to doing this exact same guest lineup with Christina sometime down the

[00:00:38] Brett: we will repeat this, um, and apologies to our regular listeners, we took, we took some unintended time off, um, life got in the way, but we also weren’t beholden to any sponsors at the time, so we gave ourselves a break, and, and literally [00:01:00] took a break, so

[00:01:01] Jeff: Which was lovely for me, because I came back from a family trip to Egypt and Kenya, and then had a colonoscopy, and then had oral surgery, and then got sick. And so, it’s awesome to have a break in that context.

[00:01:12] Brett: that sounds, that sounds like it was a much needed break.

[00:01:15] Jay: I was jealous when you said Kenya and Egypt, and then you jumped straight into colonoscopy, and I was like, well,

[00:01:22] Jeff: what? I deliberately scheduled it for the week I got back, because I’m like, I’m gonna be so out of it anyhow that I might as well just hit myself with all the stuff. Um, and I did. Yeah. Great.

[00:01:34] Brett: I haven’t, I, so yesterday I had two root canals and two crowns.

[00:01:39] Jeff: what, yesterday you had two root canals? What’s going on with that?

[00:01:44] Brett: well,

[00:01:44] Jeff: that a thing?

[00:01:46] Brett: yes, apparently so, because it happened to me, um, I had, I had a filling fallout in a back molar and I, I scheduled like, it, it wasn’t hurting me, so the dentist like scheduled me a couple months [00:02:00] out, and in the meantime, decay started happening between the broken filling and the tooth next to it, so I had this like, spot of decay that covered two teeth.

[00:02:10] Brett: And in order to fill it, they would have had to drill into the nerves, which is, I guess, when you do a root canal. And so I had a bunch of scans done. I even got a second opinion because that sounded excessive to me. Um, but they’re like, yep, you’re going to need two root canals and then you’ll have to crown them and it’s going to cost you about five grand.

[00:02:32] Brett: And so, and then, so I went in to have it done and I had a brand new dentist that I had never seen before and he gave me a total of 13 shots of Novocaine and it didn’t take. It didn’t take. He would start drilling and I would scream. Like, it did nothing to me. And I blame a combination of hallucinogens and Vyvanse.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Jeff: I’m serious, I’ve learned that because I’m a hard one to get to and I finally found a dentist who’s like, well, here’s what I had to do to make it work, he calls it like the, Winer esque it technique, and uh, I think the needle pretty much went through my cheek. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think the needle went through my cheek, literally I think it did, but, but it was the first time it was ever perfect on the second try.

[00:03:20] Brett: I, yeah, it, it did not take, it did not stick. So yesterday I didn’t take any Vyvanse or any of my other medicinal, uh, drugs. And, um, they gave me a, uh, oral sedative that put me in like a semi conscious state.

[00:03:40] Jeff: sedative.

[00:03:42] Brett: Like you, they like, they grounded up and put it under my tongue and like

[00:03:47] Jeff: is this dentist?

[00:03:49] Brett: let it, I let it dissolve.

[00:03:51] Brett: And then I went into this like very woozy trance-like state, and I was like [00:04:00] aware of what they were doing, but none of it hurt. And, and I had like memory loss when I came out of

[00:04:07] Jeff: you, have you yelped this guy? Cause,

[00:04:11] Jay: where you at?

[00:04:12] Jeff: yeah, come on.

[00:04:13] Brett: basically, basically they’re

[00:04:15] Jeff: no sponsors.

[00:04:17] Brett: If, uh, if, uh, if Novocaine doesn’t take, we have to do… It’s basically somewhere in between Novocaine and, like, IV type. Anesthesia, and so it’s like, uh, a midway anesthesia that doesn’t require any needles, which I assume also doesn’t require any special licensing.

[00:04:38] Jeff: Welcome to the dental health corner. Ah, can I just say, can I just say at the end of this, can I say at the end of this, my cousin who lives out in the suburbs, um, I went to visit him for the first time ever and realized he’s in the scary suburbs, like the, like, um, I, I drove by a house first that had like a giant sign that said, um, that said taxidermy outside.

[00:04:59] Jeff: And [00:05:00] apparently sometimes there are bears curing out there. And then next to him was a yard that had recently inflated balloons that are apparently refreshed and like a big sculpture of an, of a green alien and all this stuff. And then I got to his house. And I’m like, what’s the deal with those two? Like, I was hoping they’re, they’re friends or whatever.

[00:05:18] Jeff: He’s like, Oh, they’re totally friends. He’s like, but you know, I was, I, he had two teeth pulled because of an infection in the front of his mouth and he was in so much pain and he was talking to the neighbor with the aliens and the neighbor offered him heroin. And I told him, I said, like, I mean, which makes sense, right?

[00:05:32] Jeff: In a certain way, I guess. I’ve never used heroin, but here’s the thing. The taxidermy guy, it’s rumored, goes out in his backyard with night vision goggles and his AR 15, and in the night, and apparently with a silencer, which I don’t think is a thing for everybody, and shoots deer. And I told my cousin, I’m like, you know, half of our family won’t come to the city, won’t come to Minneapolis anymore, ever since like the uprising and the police decided to just say, fuck all of you.

[00:05:58] Jeff: And I’m like, this [00:06:00] is scary. Like, my neighborhood is not scary. Anyway.

[00:06:04] Jay: I thought it was weird, we just moved cross country, and we moved to like, We’re on the city, like, border between one town and the next, and the next town over, uh, it was interesting when people were like, Oh, hey, you’re moving to the place where it’s illegal to not own a firearm.

[00:06:22] Jeff: Right, right.

[00:06:23] Jay: I had to like, I had to like, pause and think about that for a second.

[00:06:26] Jay: I was like, wait a minute, you said not? Like, yeah, not, you have, you have to be back, like, Open carry permits, like, Happy quinceañera, here’s a Glock, like, I don’t,

[00:06:39] Jeff: Oh, that’s great. Well, um, how’s that going for you?

[00:06:42] Jay: You know, guns aside, I guess, um, You know, it’s, it’s been good. Um, I, I guess for, for some context, I’ve moved to the Atlanta area. Um, my family lives about two hours South of Atlanta. The other half of my family lives, uh, [00:07:00] two hours North of Atlanta. And then like some weird third contingency lives on the Southeast of us.

[00:07:06] Jay: So it’s. It’s kind of nice being close enough to family that like, they can’t just come in when they want to, but they can still show up. Like, they can, you know, call and be like, hey, what are you doing this weekend? Let’s, you know, let’s hang out. Like, that’s been pretty cool. Um,

[00:07:23] Jeff: And you moved into the Atlanta area from where?

[00:07:25] Jay: San Diego.

[00:07:26] Jeff: Whoa, San Diego. Wow.

[00:07:28] Jay: the land, I mean, I paid taxes for no rain and it rained like, For the first three months this year, I knew it was time to go.

[00:07:34] Jeff: Yeah, San Diego, and I haven’t been there since the 90s, but it was like the land of the peacoat back then, like the navy, like, long blue coat.

[00:07:41] Jay: It’s, it still is.

[00:07:42] Jeff: I think I got a peacoat there, actually.

[00:07:44] Jay: I mean, that’s, that’s how I got there was through the Marine Corps. I got stationed there and my wife’s from LA and we were just like, this is nice. We’ll just stay here and do that thing for a little bit.

[00:07:53] Jeff: I love it.

[00:07:54] Jay: But all in all, I mean, the weather’s nice. We have AC for the first time, you know, I feel like people [00:08:00] really underestimate the power of central air, like it’s life changing.

[00:08:05] Jeff: is life

[00:08:06] Jay: My electric bill is probably gonna be life changing too when I get it,

[00:08:09] Jeff: It, yes.

[00:08:10] Jay: it is what it is.

[00:08:11] Brett: I have one window unit to cool the entire house.

[00:08:14] Jeff: Oh man.

[00:08:15] Brett: we, we just don’t have, it would, it would take an entire retrofit to fit central air in here. So we have one window unit in my bedroom that cools the entire house. And it’s not ideal, but in Minnesota, in the summer, it’s a necessity. We survive.

[00:08:34] Jeff: When I was a kid, my dad had a window unit just in his room, and the rest of the house was just like sweltering. And so I’d have to like sneak in there when he wasn’t in there and just like bring a book or something. It’s unfair, dad. Yeah. You could have put one in my room. There’s no reason you couldn’t have done that.

[00:08:51] Mental Health Corner

[00:08:51] Jeff: Anyway. Uh, hi! Let’s do our, so we’ve done Dental Health Corner. Yeah. Uh, that’s a great segue into Mental Health Corner, I can’t think of any other rhymes.[00:09:00]

[00:09:00] Brett: I say we go with

[00:09:01] Jeff: Compartmental Health Corner? Sorry, I’ll just stop. I’ll stop. I’ll stop. It’s dumb.

[00:09:09] Brett: Well guess first. I know Jay has some stuff to talk about.

[00:09:13] Jay’s Mental Health Corner

[00:09:13] Jay: Ah, so there’s kind of like these, these like, two weird feelings, like again, the whole moving cross country, uprooting everything, spending tens of thousands of dollars to go from like, one time zone to another, cause… It sucks if you try to do it any cheaper than that. And then, like, and then still coming out okay has left me with this sense of like, have, did I finally make it?

[00:09:41] Jay: Like, Am I in a position in, like, for the first time in, like, my family’s history where you can sit there and drop a bunch of money at one time and not be worried about what’s going to happen to you? Like, am I going to have to, like, donate plasma for the next year or something like that? And it’s like, I’m [00:10:00] good.

[00:10:01] Jay: And that has been this weird eye opening, like, I’m bougie now, like, I am, I feel the, the middle class crust, like, hitting my skin, but there’s this other side of that, that, you know, I’m sure, I’m sure Brett In all of our fancy tech job glory, we keep hearing about all the AI stuff. And like, I’m not an AI skeptic.

[00:10:28] Jay: I’m also not an AI evangelist. Like,

[00:10:31] Brett: I read your last post on that.

[00:10:33] Jay: yeah, like, I feel this constant tug from my employer to be like, you have to preach the gospel of AI. And I’m just like, I don’t want to do that. So now I’m like struggling with this depression of like everywhere I go, I just keep hearing it screamed in my ear and I’m like, no, I don’t want to listen.

[00:10:51] Jay: I don’t want to listen to like, it’s like, but I also want to protect that level of financial security that I’ve reached [00:11:00] and what that’s brought me is. Uh, my favorite type of depression, uh, which is impulse buying mode, um, I just bought an espresso machine.

[00:11:11] Jeff: Mmm. Mm

[00:11:12] Brett: therapy.

[00:11:12] Jeff: hmm. Well, you work in tech Wait, can I ask you, what’s the context that you are now facing the bougie situation that you’re describing?

[00:11:21] Jay: I mean, it’s, it’s

[00:11:22] Jeff: it a job that suddenly

[00:11:24] Jay: uh, well, I got my, my bonus, um, and then I also had to sell a bunch of stock and that left me with like tens of thousands of dollars left over from the tens of thousands of dollars that I had and was like, whoa, wait, what’s happening? I thought. Everything was going to be miserable.

[00:11:44] Jay: Like, I’m sure the IRS is going to slap me in the face later, but like, I don’t, for the moment, I’m just like, Hey, I can spend a thousand dollars on espresso machine stuff and Hey, I can buy baseball season tickets, you [00:12:00] know, for my favorite baseball team next year. And like, I can do all of this stuff that. As a kid, you’d have been like, Oh, hey, cool. I have a small cafe in my house now with beans from single origin farms from Ethiopia. Like I look in the mirror and I’m like, who is this person? I don’t, I don’t, I don’t recognize you over, you know, the sound of your smugness.

[00:12:24] Brett: Did it work? Did you cure your depression?

[00:12:28] Jay: Um, I have another 200 worth of stuff that I just ordered from Amazon. So, but I need it. The house is empty. I need to fill it. Like it’s, so it’s. It’s just that weird, it’s this very weird state of like, all of this could go away in a heartbeat if I refuse to not preach AI. But at the same time, like, I just don’t want to do it.

[00:12:53] Jay: And like, that’s just the worst feeling ever. But also like, the constant [00:13:00] reminder of how good life is right now. And if you just like shut up, close your eyes, take your medicine and like do the thing you don’t want to do, you could probably ensure that for, you know, a few more years until the next thing comes up that you don’t want to do.

[00:13:16] Brett: When I, when I left AOL Tech, it was because, like, things had gotten, like, it was, it was a very similar predicament. I was being asked to do things that I didn’t really want to do, and my passive income was such that I was making My salary, again, from like apps and, and blog sponsors and things like that.

[00:13:42] Brett: And I thought I could live with half the money and just, you know, do my own thing and not have to, you know, for example, write posts about AI. Um, and it went very poorly for me. I would not recommend, I [00:14:00] would never recommend if you have a cushy corporate gig. You know, don’t sell your soul, but, but

[00:14:09] Jay: would argue I’ve done that already.

[00:14:11] Brett: but also don’t fail.

[00:14:13] Brett: Yeah,

[00:14:14] Jay: Yeah. And that’s kind of the interesting point is I feel like right now I’m mostly just Just verbally echoing, like, look, you, you want me in my element, like, you want me talking about the things that I, like, I’m, I’m building templates for like the, the Microsoft Learn ecosystem for all of the Python stuff and the end result is hopefully we’ll be managing.

[00:14:41] Jay: 20 or 30 different examples using one repo, one code base. We make one update and put in like propagated out to all of our samples. Like this is some cool stuff that I’m doing. And then all of a sudden they’re like, yeah, we need you to present this to the executive leadership team, by the way. Is there any way you can [00:15:00] sprinkle some AI in there?

[00:15:01] Jay: And

[00:15:01] Jeff: Oh, that’s it. That’s the thing, huh? You gotta sprinkle it. You got to sprinkle it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So compulsive spending, but you have the money. Uh, is that what you’re saying or no? Is it like, I’m not trying to be flip about it. I’m,

[00:15:17] Jay: it’s, you know, I’m, I’m a parent. I have a house that we just bought. That’s, you know, it was made in the nineties, which makes, I mean, that doesn’t sound like a long time ago, but apparently all the inspectors think like, Hey, you should probably tuck some money away for when water heaters decide to explode or something.

[00:15:36] Jay: So like, there’s this moment of like. Responsible me, like always cautious of the next time that you’ll have nothing again, is like, you should really be putting all this money away and not touching any of it. And then I look and it’s like, yeah, but I don’t have the right color glasses to go with the other glasses in the cafe area.

[00:15:58] Jay: So like, what, what do [00:16:00] you do?

[00:16:02] Jeff: that’s awesome. So what did you do?

[00:16:04] Jay: Uh, I mean, I bought

[00:16:05] Jeff: got the right, yeah, yeah. You have to come correct. I mean. You’re around people. I don’t, I’ve never around people.

[00:16:12] Jay: and, and to be fair, this is, this is stuff that I’ve looked at and I’ve said, like, I, I, yeah, right, I’m, I’m probably never going to have these things. And now it’s like I have them and I’m like, this is pretty cool. Like I’ve, I’m probably over caffeinated just, I’ve, I’ve had like seven espresso, like double espresso shots in the last, like, two days.

[00:16:32] Jay: It’s, you know, it’s. It’s great and I’m learning a lot and I’m learning about things that I want to learn about. I’ve talked about taking like whiskey sommelier courses and like getting Glencairn, uh, you know, Glencairn glasses and things like that. And I understand that this is like. The utmost privileged stuff like people that I grew up with don’t like they’re like whiskey like like Jack Daniels [00:17:00] is like the Highest level of whiskey you can get for them.

[00:17:03] Jay: Maybe some black label and they’re like, whoa

[00:17:06] Jeff: Southern Comfort?

[00:17:07] Jay: yeah, I mean so like when when you’re able to go and have these experiences when you’re able to go and like do stuff and and there’s really not Anyone in your immediate circle that you can kind of relate to or that you can, you know, talk to about these things and they go, Oh yeah, you know, I’ve totally run into that problem.

[00:17:28] Jay: It feels so bad. Like it’s like one of the shittiest feelings ever where you’re just like, I under, like, I’ve become that person that people looked at and was like, Oh, I hate that guy. And you know, it’s, It’s a weird feeling, but I also understand it’s like I’m just getting the things that I’ve always wanted to get or that I’ve wanted to get for the past few years.

[00:17:50] Jay: So it’s like, wow, I have, do I hate who I’ve become or who I’ve aspired to become? And honestly, I’d like, no, I’m still the same, like [00:18:00] radical, like. You can, you can’t see my love black people like you love black coffee sign, you know, behind me. But like, I still have that, like, I’m going to stand up for people.

[00:18:10] Jay: I’m going to try to get them hired. I’m going to try to elevate their lifestyles, their careers and all that stuff. I’m still that same person. I’m just that person with a nice handbag.

[00:18:19] Jeff: And that’s also the person, you’re also the person you want in that space. And if you can then also, because of that, get things that are beautiful to you, great.

[00:18:29] Jay: yeah,

[00:18:31] Brett: Yeah. No, it’s tough. I, um, I will say that. Like I grew up being very much an activist, being very much an anarchist. And when I started making money, um, I felt very out of place going to rallies. I felt out of place, um, going to activist meetings and I kind of stopped. Like I felt like. Oh, I’m not allowed, like, I’m not allowed to be an [00:19:00] activist anymore.

[00:19:01] Brett: Um, and that’s been, that’s been years that I’ve, I’ve felt that way. I know what you’re talking about.

[00:19:07] Jay: yeah. I mean, I think the, the, Not to prolong the discussion on it, but like one of the big reasons we moved to Atlanta was like, I’m, I’m in a biracial relationship. My daughter is mixed. We grew up in a, you know, she’s grown up to this point in the area that is predominantly white. And, um, you know, And it’s like, that’s, it’s cool.

[00:19:29] Jay: She’s getting a multitude of cultures around her, but she’s not experiencing. Oh, I guess. Oh yeah. For the people who’d never met me. Hi, I’m Jay. I’m black. Um, that, that’s a thing. Some people can’t tell when I talk. Um, so like, I was like, you know, cool. We’re going to Atlanta. There’s like. A ton of black people here.

[00:19:46] Jay: There’s a ton of successful, like, there’s the black culture here is different than any other place in the world, in my opinion. And then we enroll her into like a private preschool and it’s like, I don’t [00:20:00] mean granted that was all because. She wouldn’t be starting school this year in California. So, like, we got there, they’re like, Hey, school started last week, you gotta enroll your kid.

[00:20:10] Jay: By the way, because of her age thing, she’s still in pre K, but it’s too late to sign up for pre K, so she’s gonna miss a year, but we wanted her to get friends. So then it’s like, well, there’s this, like, private school around the corner that you can send her to, and all of her friends will go to the same school for the next ten years, and you’re like, I guess we’re doing that, but in the end, I’m like, okay, great.

[00:20:32] Jay: I’ve just taken her out of this like public school system and away from that culture, uh, in some ways that I, we moved here in part for her to experience.

[00:20:41] Brett: Yeah.

[00:20:42] Jeff: Well, I mean, I also, hearing you talk and thinking about some friends who’ve been in a similar position, I just feel like maybe we’re, this is oversimplifying, maybe we’re entering an era where wealth isn’t just for the assholes. Um, which is kind of nice, right?

[00:20:56] Jay: Nice people can have nice

[00:20:58] Jeff: Nice people can have nice things. Yeah. Cause I [00:21:00] grew up similar way.

[00:21:00] Jeff: Like we did not like grew up in apartments and for the most part. And, um, you know, like tax refund time was when we spent money. Like my mom was just like, it’s coming. And, uh,

[00:21:11] Jay: tax tax free weekends?

[00:21:13] Jeff: And that’s when we would just like spend all the money. And then the rest of the year, it was fairly tight. And I’m also in a situation right now.

[00:21:19] Jeff: I’m not making a bazillion dollars, but I’m definitely making more money than a kid with no high school diploma ever expected he would. Um, And, and have nice machines and have nice things in my house. And I really, I, I just, I relate to that so much. And there’s also a part of me that resonates, something you said resonates where it was like, I actually realized late, I’m like, Oh, we’re not like exactly middle class or like working the middle class anymore, or like somewhere in like middle upper, if you’re talking about class and I have been such a reflexive class person my whole life that it took me a minute to figure that out.

[00:21:54] Jeff: And I was like, Hey, you should examine that. Like you just kind of let yourself kind of float into this [00:22:00] new tax bracket and, uh, and forgot to, um, revise some of your, some of your class reflexes. But anyway, I don’t know if that, I hope that didn’t feel like too far astray from what you’re

[00:22:15] Jay: Nah, I think that hits the nail on the head, you know.

[00:22:19] Jeff: Yeah. And another bit, which I, we talked about after my trip, but like, my wife is like a credit card miles hacker, like a genius. And we ended up in business class, my whole family. And that was like a serious thing. Because like, every time I board a plane, I’m like, these motherfuckers won’t even look me in the eye.

[00:22:35] Jeff: And there I was sitting and I’m like, I’m just gonna look at my champagne glass. And I was like, wow, how quickly I became the other thing. And maybe it’s not quite so binary.

[00:22:44] Jay: Oh, the, the previous Overtired episode where it was like, everyone has experienced business slash first class and I was like, this was me last year, this was me flying to Ireland last year, where they were like, Mr. Miller, would you like a glass of Prosecco? And I was like, I didn’t, I [00:23:00] didn’t tell you what my name was, I appreciate this.

[00:23:07] Jeff: Yes, yes,

[00:23:11] Brett: Okay. Anything else, Jay?

[00:23:13] Jay: No, um, I’m tired of talking about myself now.

[00:23:17] Brett: I understand. I

[00:23:19] Jeff: says the podcaster.

[00:23:22] Jeff’s Mental Health Corner

[00:23:22] Brett: Uh, Jeff, you got a mental health coroner?

[00:23:25] Jeff: Yeah, kind of, um, so I just mentioned I didn’t graduate from high school, and I was, I was two credits short, and I, I went to a really rich high school, um, We’re like, kids drove Mercedes and stuff, and I, I drove my beloved 1984, uh, Cutlass Sierra, Powder Blue, Bad Brain sticker on the back, uh, and, and like, uh, felt really alienated from that culture, because it was an alienating culture, um, and, uh, And so anyway, I didn’t graduate, um, and then I refused to, uh, find my way to the [00:24:00] paperwork, um, worked in a lot of warehouses and dishwashing until a mentor, like, pulled me into a whole new life that led to everything after that.

[00:24:09] Jeff: But anyway, um, My 30th class reunion came up and I’ve, I’ve never gone to one. I don’t keep in touch with almost anybody. I made the mistake early Facebook days of letting some alums in. And then I realized you have to be a cold blooded killer about that. Um, and you have to not worry about the fact that they’re writing you and saying, what the fuck?

[00:24:27] Jeff: I requested it, you know, you’re like, we weren’t friends. I, I do not want you in my world. Um, so I’ve had this like extremely sort of adversarial thing about that school, about my classmates. It’s, and it’s been, uh, something I’ve worked on hard in therapy because I was holding on so much anger. My wife was finally like, this doesn’t make exactly make sense.

[00:24:46] Jeff: Cause you’re happy. You have a great life. Like, why does this thing still like live inside of you? So, so kind of white hot. So I started doing some work in therapy, which resulted in me. Considering my [00:25:00] 30th anniversary when an old friend, my friend, Laura, um, from high school was like, come on, we’ll be each other’s like emotional support people when she like laid out exactly the perfect thing that, and it’s what I’ve done at parties forever, which is, she’s like, we’re going to, we’re going to go to a corner table and we’re going to post up in that corner and we’re not going to mingle.

[00:25:18] Jeff: Uh, we might make trips to the bar, uh, but then we’re going to be back in the corner and then we’re going to just hope for some surprises, some pleasant surprises, couple of people roll up. It feels good. That’s all we need. We go home, hopefully not Retraumatized, . And, uh, and so we did that. We actually recruited one other person into the, into the scheme.

[00:25:36] Jeff: And, and I, I decided to go to this thing. Um, and, uh, when I got there, I had forgotten my ticket. I didn’t have a, a, a, a diploma and I was the only person without a name. Despite paying 60 fucking dollars to go to this thing, and this, this woman who had been a girl when we were in high school who was managing everything, and I remembered but didn’t remember me, she’s looking, Gunsel, Gunsel, Gunsel, doesn’t [00:26:00] remember me, she’s like, I’m so sorry, you know, I’m like, you know what, this is actually perfect.

[00:26:03] Jeff: In my head, I’m like, I’m undocumented here. Like, I don’t have a diploma, I don’t have a ticket, I don’t have a name tag. I don’t look anything like I looked in high school because I had like a baby face with beautiful long hair. Um, and so I am basically like, I realized like there were years ago when I told someone the only way I want to go to my reunion is if I could be invisible and anonymous and sit in a corner and observe, right?

[00:26:23] Jeff: And that’s exactly what happened. I went into a corner. I had no name tag. Nobody recognized me. Um, and I could just take it all in and then I could decide who I wished would be. at the table with me. And, and then my friend Laura would go and summons them. It was her idea. She’s like, who, who should we see?

[00:26:42] Jeff: I’m like, go get Wilcox. So she brings this guy to the table. Or like, there was one guy, I didn’t even know who he was. I’m like, he looks very kind. Let’s bring him to the table. You know, and it was like, it was such an interesting way to do the, Reunion, which was otherwise really hot and people were super drunk and we had committed we’re just gonna sit here and drink San Pellegrino [00:27:00] all night long and sweat and, and bring some people over and that ended up being such a wonderful thing to me and, and the mental health part of this is like, you know, when something is traumatizing, which that school was to me, um, and to my friend and to the person we also pulled in, we all had this in common, um, Trauma, uh, exists in my head and in people I’ve talked to as like frozen pictures, right?

[00:27:25] Jeff: Like, almost like a slideshow of pictures that never change. Um, and, and you’re looking at them and it’s flipping through the slideshow like over and over and over. And what this thing allowed me to do… was have new pictures that just kind of, I could even feel displacing the other pictures. So I had a new picture of myself, um, as like a person who like, despite all of my worry about being like lonely for the rest of my life when I was in high school or like not knowing how to get to the thing I felt like could be true about my life.

[00:27:59] Jeff: [00:28:00] Um, and seeing all the other people that had been making the apparent right decisions that I had not quite made. I just thought, For me, it’s not going to be good. And, um. And it is good. And, and I got to sit there and just be present in that. Like I made a lot of, I did a lot of work on that before I went, like that day.

[00:28:18] Jeff: I’m like, don’t go as the kid that hated these fuckers. Go as the like, man, which is something I still have a hard time applying to myself. Go as like the man who has a family who he loves, who loves him, who has a job that he loves, um, and is, and is appreciated at. And, um, yeah. Just go as that person and stay rooted as that person.

[00:28:38] Jeff: And it worked. And, and afterwards, I just felt things falling away for days afterwards. I felt this like stuff falling away so much so that I was able to go into the Facebook group because I had been very anonymous at this thing. Right. I mean, I had to walk through people I remembered exactly, and I knew probably might’ve been a nice conversation, but I wasn’t there for it.

[00:28:58] Jeff: I couldn’t do it. I had to be back [00:29:00] to the wall, see who comes up. And so, um, afterwards I was like, we had, we’ve lost 10. People in our class, um, a lot of women to cancer, uh, two of my friends to one alcohol related death, one an overdose, um, and I was really struck by that. And so, several days, or a couple days after this thing, I was still thinking about the people who had passed, and how like, this Facebook group for this class was just full of like, we should’ve rolled a J under the…

[00:29:30] Jeff: Fucking bleachers, you know, it’s like, it’s just stupid shit. That was like, wait, we’re adults now. Do you remember that part of how we’ve 30 years has passed? Right. And you’re talking like when you were 18. Um, so I, I decided to like put myself out there and I, I created a post that basically just said like, Hey, I keep thinking about the people we’ve lost.

[00:29:48] Jeff: Um, some of whom are friends, some of whom are people I just would have loved to seen at this reunion. How about we fill this thread with memories about these people, with pictures, maybe you want to address somebody directly, [00:30:00] like, maybe you just want to share a word that means something to you, but not to anybody else.

[00:30:04] Jeff: And I started it by writing my own thing to the mother of a person who’d been a friend in high school who recently died, um, and I wrote directly to her because she was in this. Facebook group. Um, just as a message to her as like a little bit of witness from the shadows. Cause I’ve, I’ve, I’ve known mothers who have lost their children and that is a really, that is a special kind of grieving and loss that transcends almost anything.

[00:30:30] Jeff: And there’s no word for it, right? You have a word for like a woman who’s lost her husband, but you don’t have a word for a mother who’s lost her child. Um, and so I just started with that. And then, man, That stuff just rolled in for, it still is, it’s like two weeks later and people are writing the most beautiful things.

[00:30:46] Jeff: People that I thought of as not very thoughtful are writing the most thoughtful beautiful things, which is on me, right? Like, I didn’t think they were thoughtful. Um, and that too became just like part of like, I was like, I put myself out there. I was hiding in school. I wanted to be invisible, right? Like I hated my [00:31:00] body.

[00:31:00] Jeff: I hated, I hated, uh, my presence. I was a big guy, like tall. And like, I felt like I was like, I had like body image issues that I don’t really understand now when I look back. Like whatever, it’s like, and uh, and so I put myself out there in a way I never wanted to in high school, and like, yeah, this beautiful thing happened.

[00:31:16] Jeff: I’m like, okay, cool. I can sign out now and feel like I did the thing.

[00:31:21] Jay: That feels very reminiscent to, um, you know, I’m, I’m kind of still, I’m, I’m removed enough from high school that it was like, I don’t ever want to see anyone from high school ever again, except for a few people. And it’s, it’s not, it’s more of just like, I don’t want to go back to where I was. when I was that age.

[00:31:44] Jay: And so like you saying, you know, going there and bringing who you are now, not necessarily who you’re not trying to think about who you were back then was kind of interesting. And it makes, it makes me more think about the, the military side. Like, you know, I’m a Marine Corvette. It’s, it’ll [00:32:00] be 10 years this year, this coming month that I got out.

[00:32:05] Jay: And there’s a part of me that’s like, Wow, like, I was brainwashed, you know, 15 years ago. Very different person, very different mindset, and I wonder how many of those people now are, you know, how have they grown? But then also, like, I know… I know of at least three people who aren’t there anymore or who, you know, just due to mental health issues that didn’t get looked at and didn’t, you know, they didn’t talk to somebody.

[00:32:38] Jay: Um, and that’s something that I, you know, I take personally now when I talk to people who are veterans, I ask them, you know, straight up, just how’s your mental health going, um, because I don’t want to lose any more people like that. But I, I just think about high school and the military, both so much emotional, like trauma.

[00:32:59] Jay: can [00:33:00] happen in those settings that I do think it’s hard to want to go back and, you know, do anything that reminds you of those times. But I do think that there might be some value kind of like you’re saying of like, Not looking at it as, this is how I was back then, but more of like, this is who I am now.

[00:33:21] Jay: Which, I mean, of course, someone’s gonna hear me say something that I said when I was stupid and like, oh, now cancel J and like, you know, culture, culture nowadays, some people should be canceled for the things that they did when they were in high school and in the military. Uh, some people were just stupid.

[00:33:35] Jeff: just stupid adolescents without fully developed brains.

[00:33:38] Jay: it’s, it’s definitely hard to, you know, I, I can’t, there are definitely things that I did. I regret now that I think back to now like, oh wow, like I, I do hope no one ever, this isn’t an invitation to start going and digging through those crates. Like, please don’t. Um, but also like, [00:34:00] I think there might be some health in there too.

[00:34:02] Jay: Like some, some healthy, um, benefits to it.

[00:34:07] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:34:07] Brett: Here’s, here’s what’s happened to me. Um, I went to my 20th high school reunion, um, mostly because I could show up in an Audi TT convertible and make everyone feel

[00:34:22] Jeff: Alligator boots?

[00:34:24] Brett: It didn’t, it didn’t matter. No one saw my car. Um, no one asked me like what I was doing, but the weird thing was. When I showed up, the girl who was handing out the nametags knew immediately who I was.

[00:34:37] Brett: And I don’t remember many people from high school. And the whole night, like, girls were asking me to dance, guys were talking to me at the urinal, like jocks that I barely remembered were like, Hey Brett, what you been up to? And, and it was like, I realized that I was not the outcast I portrayed myself as.

[00:34:59] Brett: Like, [00:35:00] I always felt completely alienated, and then I had a dinner more recently with my quote unquote best friends from high school, and immediately fell back into old patterns and immediately realized I didn’t matter to them. Like these were the people that I associated with, these were the people that were my crew, and they didn’t care.

[00:35:26] Brett: How my life was going, they didn’t care. I, I barely got a word in edgewise. They all had a life together without me, and it felt exactly the way I felt all through high school. And it made me realize, holy shit, I was friends with the wrong people the whole time. And the people that I thought hated me actually thought I was great.

[00:35:50] Brett: And the people that I thought were great actually hated me.

[00:35:53] Jeff: did I hit myself?

[00:35:55] Brett: Exactly. Exactly.

[00:35:58