323: Unchanging Institutions

Unchanging Institutions

[00:00:00]

[00:00:00] Jeff: Hello, this is the Overtired podcast. I am your host, Jeff Severs. Gunzel. I’m one of three hosts. Here comes another Christina Warren

[00:00:11] Christina: Hello.

[00:00:12] Jeff: and Brett Terpstra.

[00:00:13] Brett: Oh, hey,

[00:00:14] Jeff: Oh, hey, I

[00:00:15] Brett: are you thinking about pink elephants

[00:00:17] Jeff: am not thinking about pink elephants. Brett tried to psych me out

[00:00:22] Brett: that is, that is, that is, uh, steel will, that is presence of mind. I appreciate that.

[00:00:27] Jeff: Steel will. That’s, uh, that’s not the first time

[00:00:30] Brett: that’s my porn name.

[00:00:37] Jeff: Um, yeah, I look forward to seeing that a across a very large box that’s like, I feel like, um, porn when I was a kid came on vhs, but it came on vhs, but in, um, really big boxes.

[00:00:51] Brett: Yeah. Why was that?

[00:00:52] Jeff: I don’t know. Because you’re trying to be discreet, I assume, but instead you’re.

[00:00:57] Brett: the one time I ever bought like hard copy [00:01:00] porn in my life, um, I ordered it on D V D and they sent it in this D V D case That was a like, uh, library of Congress exploration of like Mark Twain’s work. That’s what it said on like the dvd V case

[00:01:16] Jeff: a little cover

[00:01:17] Brett: e Even, even the DVD was labeled as such.

[00:01:19] Brett: And then you pop it in and it’s like, it’s just porn.

[00:01:23] Jeff: I mean, that’s just asking

[00:01:25] Brett: one of the, so Ella and I, my girlfriend, we have known each other for like a decade and w she used to come over and hang out when, um, when a deedee was traveling, like a deedee actually, uh, arranged that. Because she knew that Elle and I were so similar in our like, behavior and, and conversation styles.

[00:01:47] Brett: So she was like, this, this is the perfect hangout buddy for my, my husband. Um,

[00:01:53] Jeff: too. Perfect. It turns out.

[00:01:55] Christina: Yeah,

[00:01:56] Brett: out, turned out, turned out really well for two of us. Um, but [00:02:00] uh, but Elle was going through our DVD collection and I had just like slipped in there.

[00:02:05] Jeff: like, Ooh, mark Twain.

[00:02:06] Brett: yeah, she was, I don’t remember if it was actually Mark Flame, but it was Library of Congress something, and she was very impressed that I had that

[00:02:13] Jeff: So cultured.

[00:02:14] Brett: had to admit that’s not what that is.

[00:02:17] Jeff: That is, that is the last work of steel will. Steel Steel. William. Um, wow. All right. There’s that. There’s that. Where the hell do we go from there?

[00:02:30] Brett: one of the things that holds up my relationship together is my willingness to read Instagram memes out loud on the couch to my girlfriend. She loves it. She, she will, she will request, Hey, could you see something funny? And then force me to listen to you, read it out loud. Um, this is, it’s like a staple of our relationship.

[00:02:54] Brett: So, in that vein, I wanted to read you guys something I found today,

[00:02:59] Jeff: Okay.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Brett: only Christina, I think will appreciate this.

[00:03:04] Jeff: Hmm. Hmm.

[00:03:05] Brett: He was a boy. She was a girl. I am a sentient octopus. He was a punk. She did ballet. I have eight prehensile legs. He wanted her, she’d never tell. I crept up from the bowels of hell. All of her friends.

[00:03:18] Brett: And those two as well will fall when the seas start to swell. He was a skater boy. She said, see you later. Boy, neither significant to me. I’m a cephalopod, a miniature elder God. And soon all my brethren will be free

[00:03:31] Jeff: What is that?

[00:03:34] Brett: It’s Af Levine, but with octopi.

[00:03:36] Christina: but I was gonna say, I, I, here’s what was so funny, like literally from the minute you said like, like, you know, he was a boy. I was like, oh, okay. It’s an, it’s a skater boy. Um, thing. Like, I was like, I was like, I don’t know anything else about what this is, but I know that this is an Avril reference.

[00:03:49] Christina: Like, instantly like, like, like, like from, from like the first, from like the first word you said. I was like, yep, I got it. I know this

[00:03:56] Brett: I figured you would.

[00:03:57] Christina: absolutely.

[00:03:58] Brett: I actually, I actually [00:04:00] didn’t recognize it until it got to the, he was a skater boy.

[00:04:02] Christina: Oh really?

[00:04:03] Brett: Yeah, I’m a supple pod, a miniature elder God. Soon all my brethren will be free

[00:04:10] Christina: God. Now the song is gonna be in my head for the rest of the day.

[00:04:14] Brett: I’ve had, I’ve had suck by pig face in my head since this morning, but in the kitchen, when I started singing it, it came out, uh, Sinatra style.

[00:04:26] Jeff: That’s nice. I like when that happens.

[00:04:28] Brett: like it’s, uh, there is no God up in the sky tonight. Uh, no sign of heaven anywhere on sight. Like it just came out like a real, like, I obviously not like that.

[00:04:38] Brett: I’m just telling you the words and you can

[00:04:40] Jeff: Yeah, no, I can see it.

[00:04:41] Brett: sing it for you, but I had a whole thing going. It was really, really, like a lot of swing to it. It was good

[00:04:47] Jeff: Anything that rhymes tonight, you’re definitely in Sinatra territory.

[00:04:53] Brett: So I feel like, I feel like we, we segue into Mental Health Corner as is our tradition. Um, [00:05:00] I I can kick it off if you like.

[00:05:03] Jeff: Kick it off.

[00:05:04] Brett: Fucking, everything’s normal. Like, not, not even, not even my usual, like, I’m so tired of being stable. Uh, like I’m just, I’m, I’m normal today. Like I feel, I feel social. I’m a little bit bummed because we’re going on a trip next week and l is, uh, I have gotten to a point with Covid where I’m like, you know what?

[00:05:28] Brett: I’m good most of the year, but I’m willing to take a risk. For a vacation. Um, Elle is not at that point, and I had to like, cancel plans with my friends because she wants to like isolate before we leave so that she’s not putting her family in danger. And I get it. And our friend of the show, Brian would totally be on board with this, but me, I get very, uh, I get annoyed that I still have to think about it and, and I have to be careful making plans with friends that I will only [00:06:00] see once, maybe twice a year.

[00:06:02] Brett: Um, and I have to like, arrange things with outdoor seating and masking and it annoys me. I’m, I’m just, I’m done. I’m, I have, I have covid fatigue for sure.

[00:06:15] Jeff: I’ve noticed a lot more masks lately in Minneapolis.

[00:06:19] Christina: Yeah. Um, I, I, I’ve, I’ve noticed some, but I’m also, I I’m where you were, uh, Brett, I got to that place like last year

[00:06:26] Brett: Sure. Yeah, we all did. We all did. But I don’t leave the house much, so it hasn’t mattered.

[00:06:31] Christina: no, I know you don’t. I know, but, but what I’m saying is like, I know exactly what you mean because that’s exactly where I was like a year ago. I was just like, I’m done, I’m done.

[00:06:39] Christina: I’m, I’m done. Like, I, I’ve got it. Like I’m, I’ve been, you know, I’ve been okay, like, I’m done. I’m gonna do the right things If people, you know, want me to, to mask up or whatever, I will. But I’m not, I’m not doing the whole like, charade and I’m sorry. It, it has been a charade for, for the most part, you know, about like, oh, I’m not gonna go out.

[00:06:59] Christina: I’m not gonna like [00:07:00] travel. I’m not gonna like, live my life. Like,

[00:07:03] Brett: I mean, that’s not purely performative. That’s just extremely cautious.

[00:07:07] Christina: No, most of it is performative. Some people, I think it is true, but I think it, it’s, it’s gotten to the point that for most people, in my experience, it is completely performative because the, the precautions they’re taking don’t even make any difference. Like, we’re all getting sick anyway.

[00:07:21] Brett: we’re gonna hear from Brian

[00:07:23] Christina: I’m not talking about Brian.

[00:07:24] Christina: Like they, they have a different, they have a different, um, you know, like, like threat model. But, but I, I said most people, I said Mo and, and, you know, but, and, and, and I’m sorry. I think that’s, I think that’s absolutely true. Um, like it’s just, at this point I’m just like, okay, like you do all the right things and the, the masks, if you’re not wearing the right type of mask, it doesn’t even like, it’s like,

[00:07:45] Brett: sure. I feel like at this, if at this point everyone’s down with the K or N 95,

[00:07:51] Jeff: I disagree. I feel like, so I spend a lot of time at doctor’s offices lately, and, uh, it, the one they give out is just the, the [00:08:00] cheap paper mask. And then that seems to be what people are buying also. And not only that, but like,

[00:08:05] Brett: performative.

[00:08:05] Jeff: and not well, yeah. Not only that, but when I’m at the doctor, I’m noticing more and more like nurses, uh, you know, the, as a group nurses have a fair amount of conservatives among them, and I’m, and I’m noticing a lot of noses.

[00:08:19] Jeff: So they’re not only wearing like a mask that really isn’t designed to keep covid from spreading. I’m sure it has some impact, but it, it’s not designed to do that. But, uh, but now there’s noses as well, and, and that’s the part that’s really frustrating and feels kind of, I mean, it feels performative, but I don’t even, it’s not even that that bothers me.

[00:08:38] Jeff: It’s more that how quickly we just threw away the idea of like, this is the kind of mask that works, you know,

[00:08:47] Brett: Well, so here’s, here’s, here’s my pitch for k N 95 masks with the little metal band that goes over your nose. You can talk to someone for five minutes without. [00:09:00] Every 30 seconds having to pull your mask back

[00:09:03] Jeff: Yeah. Right, right, right.

[00:09:04] Brett: I watch like city council meetings where the people yelling at the council have, have shitty masks on, and they’re like, the whole time, it’s just this constant distraction of pulling their mask up over their nose.

[00:09:17] Brett: Just get k n 95 masks. They’re so, they’re, they stay in place. They’re so much better and effective and they actually, you know, provide some protection

[00:09:26] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:09:27] Brett: for you and everyone else. But anyway, so I’m looking, I’m gonna see, uh, Dan Peterson and hopefully Dave Chartier, uh, in Chicago, and then have breakfast with friend of the show, Aaron Dawson.

[00:09:42] Brett: Um, if, if all goes well and, and we come up with plans that are safe for everybody, that is, that’s my, that’s my Saturday and Sunday, and then I’m in Michigan for a week and it’s gonna be a lot like, what was it? Dusty or Sandy, what was your place in Utah [00:10:00] called

[00:10:01] Jeff: Sandy, Utah.

[00:10:03] Brett: Sandy, Utah. It’s go, it’s gonna, it’s, it’s gonna be a little depressing.

[00:10:07] Brett: Uh, we got a Airbnb, um, and there’s not a lot around. I might make a trip to, um, mis, uh, to Ann Arbor. Um, I don’t, do you guys know Marina Appleman?

[00:10:20] Christina: Yes. She’s the best.

[00:10:21] Brett: I haven’t told her I’m coming yet,

[00:10:23] Christina: No, you have to, no. Yeah.

[00:10:24] Brett: she’s in Ann Arbor and, and if I get a chance, I would like to see her. It’ll be fun.

[00:10:29] Christina: She’s fantastic. She’s fantastic. Um, I, I got to meet her in person. Um, she came to when she was in New York once and um, she’s, she’s, she’s so

[00:10:38] Brett: just awesome. She’s

[00:10:39] Christina: the best.

[00:10:41] Brett: Russian. She’ll tell you stories about Sylvia, Russia. It’ll be

[00:10:45] Christina: Also like, because she’s been through it, like she’s just, I lo I love her cuz she’s just like very direct and like funny

[00:10:51] Brett: and so smart.

[00:10:52] Christina: so fucking smart. Like brilliant. She’s, uh, she teaches, she’s a math or economics or something at, um, at math. Math at um,

[00:10:59] Brett: like [00:11:00] applied mathematics, I think,

[00:11:01] Christina: Yeah. I was gonna say some, some, it’s better than like, normal math.

[00:11:04] Christina: Yeah. Um, at a, um, at uh, um, Ann Arbor. Um, so yeah,

[00:11:09] Brett: she’ll probably, she’ll probably, uh, I’ll, I’ll tell her. We talked about her. She’ll listen to this and tell me, you have no idea what I actually teach. Do you? And I’ll say it’s over my head. I, I don’t really know.

[00:11:20] Christina: smart. Honestly. Like we, we, we know that it’s really good. We know that it’s a very, very good school and that it’s something like very, very like smart,

[00:11:29] Brett: Very smart. Uh, she taught me how to say late tech. Uh, she, she corrected me back in

[00:11:35] Jeff: I thought it’s LA Tech.

[00:11:37] Brett: so there, as long as you get the sound at the end, as long as you don’t say the X,

[00:11:42] Christina: right? Which I did

[00:11:43] Brett: you can say LA Tech. You can say LA Tech. You can say latex. As long as you don’t say latex.

[00:11:49] Jeff: And why is the ex,

[00:11:52] Brett: Really good question. I bet she would know the answer.

[00:11:54] Christina: it because it came from tech, which was like the, I, the, the, the, I don’t know, ask the fucking Unix [00:12:00] guys is the only thing I can get in with that.

[00:12:02] Jeff: yeah. Yeah. You know what? That would be a great podcast. Ask the fucking Unix

[00:12:07] Christina: I mean,

[00:12:07] Jeff: your host, Jeff Severance. I’m here with Christina Warren. Brett Terpstra.

[00:12:11] Christina: Um, I, I got to meet, um, uh, Ken Thompson, uh, very briefly at a scale a couple weeks ago, and he was lovely. And, um, he’s 80 and he’s still programming and doing cool things. His, the video of his talk actually went up and it got on Hacker News and there were a number of people who were acting just like some of the assholes in the room who were like, they wanted, they were expecting him to talk about Unix and go, and he didn’t.

[00:12:35] Christina: Instead he like shared this very human and like, kind of personal story about this thing that he called it like his 75 year like project, but it’s really been this thing that he’s been actively working on. Since the eighties where he’s like digitized every like, recorded song from like the 19 hundreds to like the, like 19 hundreds to, to 1999 or, or whatever.

[00:12:57] Christina: And, um, uh, it, it’s, he [00:13:00] basically created Napster is, is, is the longest, the short of it, but, but it’s, but it’s actually pretty incredible. Like, like he legally obtained all these songs and stuff and then encoded them and, and like there’s player pianos and it’s not just recorded stuff, but also things like, stuff that beyond like player piano scrolls and other sorts of, um, media.

[00:13:17] Christina: And, um, anyway, it was a really great talk, but when he finished giving this talk, and I, I’d met him the day before and I was just like, kind of fangirling. I was like, thank you for everything you’ve given us, you know, because you know Ken Thompson. And, um, he told me, he was like, I’m nervous about my talk.

[00:13:34] Christina: And I was like, oh, that’s gonna be, And then a guy asked at the end, he was basically like, why did you just waste our time? He didn’t say, why did you waste our time? But that was the undercurrent. He was like, I was expecting you to talk about Go or Unix or this or that. Why did you just talk about this thing?

[00:13:47] Christina: And, and like very much the undercurrent was like, why, why did you just like waste our time in this? And, and I, I was so pissed at the time. I, I wanted to boo the guy and I didn’t because that, you know, that’s, that’s, you don’t do that. [00:14:00] Christina don’t do that. But I, I do regret not having like, at the end, like when, when Ken was almost sort of apologizing now not yelling at like, we love you Ken.

[00:14:08] Christina: Because I think that the vast majority of the audience really enjoyed it. But there were some people on and Hacker News who were like, Well, actually in certain things, they’re like, well, you know, he’s not that I, I don’t understand why everybody, you know, like, like kisses his ass so much. He was, he was factually wrong about some things when he came by the Debbie and Booth.

[00:14:26] Christina: And I’m like, the dude is 80 years old and, and, and, and he, he did, he did, he wasn’t aware of like a raspberry pie shortage because it doesn’t affect him personally. Like, fuck you. Like,

[00:14:36] Jeff: everybody fucking knows about what happens at the Debbie and Booth fucking stays at the Debbie and

[00:14:40] Christina: Exactly. Exactly.

[00:14:41] Brett: It’s the first rule of Debbie in Booth.

[00:14:43] Christina: it, it really is. But no, you know, but you had like some people in Hacker News who were just being total like dicks about some of the stuff, but I thought it was like a really beautiful, um, story. Anyway, that was a tangent that came out of you talking about the, the, we should have the, the ask the Unix guys.

[00:14:58] Brett: really enjoyed that [00:15:00] one.

[00:15:00] Jeff: just be, it could be a

[00:15:01] Brett: that tangent,

[00:15:03] Christina: But, but seriously in the show notes. So we’ll have a link to the, the video from scale because it’s a really great talk and, and I think it’s just like, in its simplicity and like in its humanness, like I actually thought it was, it was really compelling. Um, I also, like, I definitely get the sense that, that Mr.

[00:15:17] Christina: Thompson’s probably on the spectrum of some sort, because he’s dedicated all this time and, and all this work into like digitizing and cataloging all this music. I don’t get the sense that he’s listened to much of the music other than like figuring out how it could be as losslessly encoded as possible.

[00:15:34] Christina: Like that, that like, I, I didn’t real, I didn’t get a sense that it w I got, you know what I mean? Like, I didn’t get a sense that it was anything more of like, I need to complete this thing other than like, I, I, I have great love for the, for the works themselves.

[00:15:46] Brett: Do either of you know what that condition is called where you don’t like music or like music has no effect on you at all? You don’t feel anything you don’t hear.

[00:15:55] Christina: yeah, I’ve heard of that. He, and he doesn’t have that, but I don’t know. Um, I [00:16:00] know

[00:16:00] Brett: a, I have a friend with that Allison Sheridan. She’s not shy about it. Um, she runs the pod feet podcast and like, just music means nothing to her. Like she could hear it and like, if it doesn’t actively annoy her, it just has like no meaning. Uh, there’s no like, like I feel stuff when I listen to music.

[00:16:21] Brett: Like that’s the whole point of music for most people I think cuz like feeling things that would be so weird. Anyway, anyway, sorry Christina, how’s your mental.

[00:16:30] Christina: Um, pretty good. It’s pretty good. Um, it’s been kind of a, it’s a busy work week and it’s gonna continue to kind of be, you know, busy for the next, you know, few days and into next week and stuff. But, um, it’s pretty good. Uh, grant is out of town. He went to go visit his brother, who he has not seen in person in, I don’t know, in probably, probably 15 years.

[00:16:50] Christina: They, well, they, they had a falling out for a while and they haven’t been talking, and then they started talking like a year and change ago for the first time in a really long time. [00:17:00] So he’s in Hawaii with his brother, seems to be going well. So I’ve got like, so I’m like in this interesting thing where I’m like, alone in the house, um, which is kind of nice.

[00:17:11] Christina: I mean, I, I, I, it, it, I’m kind of like, it’s kind of weird, but it’s like I haven’t been alone in, in this space. Like I’ve been alone like other places, but I haven’t been alone here in like

[00:17:21] Brett: you talk to yourself when you’re alone in the house?

[00:17:24] Christina: No.

[00:17:24] Brett: you say things out loud to yourself? Oh,

[00:17:27] Christina: not really, not, not so much sometimes maybe, but like, I not, not, not really, like, I think out loud to myself a lot, but I don’t, you know what I mean?

[00:17:35] Christina: Like, I, I think stuff to myself, I’m like, what the fuck are you doing? But I don’t, I don’t usually verbalize it, but,

[00:17:40] Brett: I like narrate my life when I’m all alone and no

[00:17:43] Christina: oh, I love

[00:17:44] Brett: I just, I just say it all out

[00:17:46] Jeff: Like Ron Howard in the rest of development.

[00:17:48] Christina: Yeah. Oh, I love that.

[00:17:52] Jeff: That’s awesome.

[00:17:53] Brett: which is no longer on Netflix, even though they produced the last two seasons of it,

[00:17:57] Christina: is so fucked up. And, and we talked about it. Yeah, it’s a [00:18:00] stupid rights thing. They, they had like a, a 10 year, um, I guess contract and they didn’t wanna renew it. And the shitty thing is, is you can get season four from iTunes or, or Google Play or whatever, but season five, they never released as a way to buy.

[00:18:13] Christina: And then the season four remix, which actually made season four better, was also not released on home video. So the only way you can get it is if you pirate it, which is fucking stupid. So it’s, it’s so dumb. And, and because Netflix co-produced it, some people are like, oh, it’ll just show up on, on, you know, um, Hulu or whatever, and I’m like, no, Netflix like, paid for the co-production, so it, you know, they’d have to buy them out and, and I doubt Disney cares.

[00:18:38] Christina: So it, it’s just shitty.

[00:18:40] Brett: Yeah,

[00:18:41] Jeff: That sucks.

[00:18:43] Brett: it does.

[00:18:44] Jeff: Um, I, uh, I went and saw the movie Metropolis on Sunday.

[00:18:52] Brett: With,

[00:18:53] Christina: Oh wow.

[00:18:53] Brett: with which, with what? Soundtrack?

[00:18:56] Jeff: It’s the original one and the soundtrack was actually a man on an [00:19:00] organ.

[00:19:00] Brett: Yes.

[00:19:00] Jeff: Um, live but live.

[00:19:02] Brett: Minneapolis. I saw, uh, a live production. Uh, this was back in like, uh, maybe 1999, uh, 98, 99. I saw, uh, they showed, I can’t remember the name of the theater. Something Oak

[00:19:16] Jeff: But yeah, the Oak Street Cinema, it’s long gone. It was a great one.

[00:19:19] Brett: And they showed. They showed it and they had a live organ accompaniment. It was fantastic. It was really fun.

[00:19:25] Jeff: Yeah, that’s what, that’s what happened here. Um, and it was the full, like almost three hour version of Metropolis, uh, such a cool story where they found like a complete version in Argentina, but it was 16 millimeter. And so they have to like, and then they, they were able to restore missing scenes, uh, via description, I think based on the Nazis censorship files, um, from the movie.

[00:19:49] Jeff: I mean, it’s really, but I bring it up just because like, I, I mean, even though I missed movies so much during the pandemic, I have not made great [00:20:00] use of movie theaters since it has essentially ended and. have been so in my head lately that took on a new role with my organization, taking on a new project that it was just wonderful to just lay back in a seat and, and, and let someone tell me or show me a story.

[00:20:20] Jeff: Um, especially that one, I, I’ve always wanted to watch it. I had no idea how fucking good it was. I mean, I heard obviously

[00:20:28] Christina: I mean, yeah,

[00:20:29] Jeff: Yeah. Like you hear about it forever.

[00:20:31] Christina: no, but, but, but to your point, like you got to see like the definitive version because, I’m trying to think cuz I’ve seen, I’ve seen it a couple times, but I think the only time I saw it with like, the live, maybe accompaniment was the one that they, it was like 2002, but then they found like another copy or they found like other stuff after that.

[00:20:51] Christina: And, and I, and I, I saw that one, but I don’t remember if it had the live accompaniment or not. Or, and I think I saw it, but I might not have, I [00:21:00] might just be like misremembering that I might, I might, might think that I saw it and instead I read about it. Um,

[00:21:05] Brett: It works as a silent movie, like you can, you can get in, you can get involved in it without a soundtrack, but it is a different experience to see it where the company meant.

[00:21:17] Jeff: I was amazed at, especially, I don’t know if it’s Briget or Bridget Helm, the, the woman who plays Maria, sort of the star of the movie, she plays two different Marias. One is a robot clone and one is the actual Maria. So she has, and she’s dressed the same in both cases, and so she has to, in a silent film, make it clear when you’re looking at, you know, like the clone Maria or the real Maria and the acting that it took to make that real.

[00:21:45] Jeff: Amazing. She was amazing. And I was surprised to feel so many things in that movie. Generally. I thought it was gonna be sort of an academic, uh, thing to watch that movie. But anyway, it was, it, what it was for [00:22:00] me also though, was just like, it just got out of my head. It was just awesome. It was so nice to be in a story other than one I’m telling myself.

[00:22:08] Jeff: Um, and then just a little piece of trivia came out of it. That’s fucking nuts. Which is that, so this woman, let’s call her Bridget Helm. This was her first movie. 1927. She’s amazing. She did a bunch of more movies before retiring in 1935 because the Nazis had taken over the film ministry and it disgust disgusted her.

[00:22:30] Jeff: Um, but there’s a really crazy little piece to her history, which is she was apparently involved in several traffic accidents. This is on the Wiki Wikipedia page, um, and was even briefly imprisoned, right? Um, and one of her, uh, one of her accidents ended up in a death. And so she was facing charges of manslaughter and there was a certain person in power at the time who noticed she had a case and, and got it dropped.

[00:22:58] Jeff: That person [00:23:00] was her fan, Adolf Hitler. So I was thinking how much it would fuck me up if a, I had killed someone in a car accident. B had the elation, the strange, guilty elation of having that case dropped, and C was recognizing over the course of the next 10 years what it meant that Adolf Hitler was that man.

[00:23:24] Jeff: Cause I mean,

[00:23:25] Brett: that’s a real rollercoaster.

[00:23:27] Jeff: oh my God.

[00:23:28] Christina: Okay. So that, so that right there, that’s like a movie like, like that, that’s, that, that, that’s, that’s like, okay. Cuz uh, did, did either of you see tar?

[00:23:36] Jeff: No,

[00:23:37] Christina: It’s great.

[00:23:38] Jeff: yeah. Here.

[00:23:39] Christina: Kate Blanch had, uh, um, Todd Field and it’s, it’s, you know, fake, but it’s, it’s great. But like that to me almost feels like, Like, you could do a, a, a, a tar like thing, but about her, like, like that would actually be an interesting sort of sort of thing.

[00:23:53] Christina: Like, you know, to do kind of like a character study on, on this, this, this woman who has to deal with that stuff too. And then it’s [00:24:00] also like, okay, this is your first big role. It’s this, this, you know, masterpiece, but then it happens at this, you know, time and then all these other things happen and having to grapple with it.

[00:24:07] Christina: Like, um, what’s her face? The, uh, the, um, the Nazi, um, uh, documentarian, um, uh, who, who did um, um, uh, triumph, the will, um,

[00:24:18] Jeff: Oh,

[00:24:18] Christina: uh, um, um, um, you, you know what I’m, you know exactly who I’m talking about. Um,

[00:24:23] Jeff: it up so we get it

[00:24:24] Christina: uh, Lil Gral. Um,

[00:24:28] Jeff: Got it.

[00:24:28] Christina: knew it would come to me. Um,

[00:24:30] Brett: just gotta give her a sec. She

[00:24:31] Christina: I, I was gonna

[00:24:32] Brett: there.

[00:24:33] Christina: with this stuff. I do. No, but that’s, uh, you know, like I’ve always, there’ve been a lot of talks over the years about like, wanting to make films about her story.

[00:24:43] Christina: And, and that has also, but, but that’s complicated for so many reasons. And, uh, but, but that, that, that’s another character who I’m like, oh, she’s so flawed. And not, not to say that this actress is, cause I, I think it’s totally different. But just to talk about kind of like in that era of, you know, aligning yourself [00:25:00] with these, these people right.

[00:25:02] Christina: With, with someone like Hiller and, and having it tied directly to your art form and being completely, you know, like, um, unretractable from it, which obviously again, like. She as an actress, didn’t like she, she’d quit because she didn’t wanna be doing those things and, and made that stand and still wound up benefiting, uh, from, uh, fur Anyway.

[00:25:21] Christina: But anyway, just has me thinking about, uh, ri install, cuz that’s whole thing is just really interesting. There’s so many interesting stories, I think, uh, about like ethics and, and um, uh, art and, you know, like, I don’t know. It’s just, it’s fascinating to think about.

[00:25:39] Brett: Here’s, here’s the little rabbit hole I just went down. So I, I was using search link to, to build out our show notes, and I have a TMDb, uh, like the movie database, uh, which is like imdb, but actually has an API that you can search. Um, so Search link returned, uh, for Metropolis [00:26:00] return slash movie slash 19.

[00:26:02] Brett: And I was like, oh, do they do these in some kind of,

[00:26:05] Christina: That’s what I

[00:26:05] Brett: uh, chronological order is like, and so what’s number 18? Number 18 is the fifth element. And number two, there’s no number one, number one returns. The, uh, 4 0 4 number two returns. What was it?

[00:26:21] Christina: Ariel. It’s Ariel. I’ve never heard of this. Ariel a, a drama comedy crime from, from K rated k12. So it’s foreign, but it is a, it is available on the Criterion, um, uh, collection, uh, service, which I have.

[00:26:36] Brett: how these, I wonder where these IDs come from, though.

[00:26:39] Christina: Yeah, me too. I’m like, I’m like very interested now. Yeah. Cause it’s on the Criterion Channel.

[00:26:43] Christina: This is a finished.

[00:26:45] Brett: in Paradise. Four doesn’t exist. Five is four rooms that I love. Four rooms, but I don’t see how that comes before Metropolis, uh, in any numbering system.

[00:26:58] Jeff: Someone needs to watch those [00:27:00] films in order, uh,

[00:27:01] Christina: Yeah. Oh, okay. That okay. Okay. Okay. You just invented a podcast, like a

[00:27:06] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:27:06] Christina: podcast that, that would appeal to like letter

[00:27:10] Brett: in order.

[00:27:11] Christina: No, but honestly, I, I, I bet you would have a bunch of people on letterbox that would totally be like down for that

[00:27:17] Jeff: Right, right, right.

[00:27:18] Brett: My favorite. My

[00:27:19] Christina: the T M D B podcast.

[00:27:21] Brett: The only line I remember from four rooms, like I enjoyed the movie, but the only line I remember is Madonna saying hell of a night haunted. And that comes up for me all the time. Anytime something weird happens, I just say hell of a night haunted. And then I have to like pause and remember why I say that, where that came from.

[00:27:41] Brett: Um, which reminds me favorite line from I’m, I’m rewatching BoJack Horseman right now. My favorite line this week was, it’s hard to describe, but I also don’t know it if I see it.

[00:27:57] Jeff: That’s awesome.

[00:27:58] Brett: so Jeff Mental Health [00:28:00] Corner.

[00:28:00] Jeff: That was it.

[00:28:01] Brett: That was it, huh?

[00:28:02] Jeff: Well, cuz the, the whole bit about it takes me outta my head

[00:28:06] Christina: Yeah, it’s good. Which, which I think is beautiful. I’m glad you got to experience that. Um, and now I’m remembering I did not see, I, I have seen the, the rest, the restored version, but I didn’t have any sort of live accompaniment. So it was just like, whatever, whatever, um, version of the score they were allowed to, to.

[00:28:21] Christina: Get, um, on that Wikipedia page, you will find out, unsurprisingly, this, that film with which there are multiple versions and lost things and whatnot, there have been fights over like who was allowed to like, create scores and, and not scores and, um, other stuff. But now it’s, but, but now it’s all in the public domain, so that’s also

[00:28:41] Jeff: As of this year, I think.

[00:28:43] Christina: Yeah. That, that’s, yeah. As, as, as of January, um, first, which, uh, it, it hit the, um, the 95 year mark or whatever. Um,

[00:28:51] Jeff: That’s awesome. Brett is apparently cleaning his gun.

[00:28:54] Brett: So I have, I have this, I have this screwdriver from like, I fix it [00:29:00] and you can like rotate it and it, every time you rotate it and push it in, it brings up a different screw head, uh, or like a different bit. And I broke it and now I can’t push it in or turn it. And now I

[00:29:11] Jeff: that what you’ve been fucking clicking the last three episodes?

[00:29:15] Brett: no.

[00:29:16] Jeff: I’m editing them, I hear this.

[00:29:18] Brett: my fidget, my fidget toy is a, is a lock blade that snaps open and I sit and I fidget and I don’t even realize I’m doing it, but I sit and

[00:29:28] Christina: need to get you a quiet

[00:29:29] Brett: it. Yeah, yeah. Let’s, let’s make that, if any listeners have a good suggestion for a fidget toy that Brett can use while podcasting, but I’ve, I’ve officially, I’ve officially broken this, this driver and in the process, oh, there’s the problem.

[00:29:47] Brett: There’s a bit stuck halfway. Anyway, um, I have, I have, I have lost eight, eight small screwdriver bits in the process. You know, I’m gonna have to like cut it open. It’s gonna be a whole thing.

[00:29:58] Jeff: Stay tuned to the next [00:30:00] episode. Hit us up on Discord.

[00:30:04] Christina: Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say, what do I have? I have my, uh, my, my, my Linus Tech tips, uh, screwdriver came in and, uh, it’s pretty nice. Um, uh, uh, he, he spent a lot of money and a lot of time building a ratcheting screwdriver.

[00:30:18] Brett: to vaults like

[00:30:20] Christina: No, no, no. Like, no, no. Like the YouTuber, um, uh, um, uh, lions Sebastian, who has like a very popular YouTube channel and, and they employ a bunch of people.

[00:30:30]