315: Brett vs. Bread Cheese

Brett v. Bread Cheese

[00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired.

[00:00:04] Brett: Hey, everybody. You’re listening to Overtired. That sounded way more chipper than I feel. Um, uh,

[00:00:10] Jeffrey: woke me up

[00:00:11] Brett: this is Brett Terpstra. I am, uh, I am back after a week of being ill and, and missing my friends here. Uh, speaking of my friends, I am here with Jeff Severns Guntzel. Hi, Jeff

[00:00:23] Jeffrey: Hello?

[00:00:24] Brett: and Christina Warren. Hey, Christina.

[00:00:26] Christina: Hello. Hello. Welcome back, Brett. We’re glad to, uh, to have you, uh, back with us again.

[00:00:32] Brett: I spent six days unable to get, like, I was alternating between laying in bed and reclining on the couch, uh, just for the sake of variety, but I couldn’t, I couldn’t walk. My stomach was, I was doubled over in pain.

[00:00:47] Jeffrey: Ugh.

[00:00:48] Brett: It was horrifying, and I won’t go into details, but I will never eat bread, cheese.

[00:00:57] Christina: Now, now breaded cheese. Cuz you, you, we we’re talking about this pre-show. Do you just mean like, like a, like, like, like, like craft? Like what? What do you

[00:01:03] Brett: No, no, no, no, no. So it’s called bread cheese, also known as grilling cheese. And it’s like a, a one inch by four by four inch block of, uh, I don’t know exactly what kind of cheese it is, but it’s designed to put on like the grill or to put in a saute pan and

[00:01:22] Jeffrey: Like, like halmi cheese,

[00:01:24] Brett: I have no idea what that means. Um, but you heat it until it gets like a little bit gooey, like a brie consistency.

[00:01:30] And then you can like season it, like chop it into like strips and put like Italian seasoning on it and grill it till it gets like a nice char on the outside.

[00:01:40] Christina: Oh, okay. I’m, look, I’m looking this up now.

[00:01:43] Brett: of

[00:01:43] Jeffrey: it’s halmi cheese.

[00:01:44] Christina: I’m looking this up now. Like it looks pretty great. I, okay. I’ve had every variety of cheese and I’m lactose intolerant. I should add, um, which, uh, but, but my attacks don’t leave me with like six day things. I, I will, I will shit my guts out, but then it’s usually like over with, um, as soon as it’s out of my, you know, like, system.

[00:02:06] Um, and, and I, I love cheese, so I will deal with it, but, uh,

[00:02:10] Brett: I, I could deal with that. I have the opposite problem.

[00:02:14] Christina: Right, right. Yeah. And, and, and actually, I, I should, I should, um, uh, clarify. I’m not lactose intolerant. I mean, I, I think I am, but I’m, I have a milk allergy, which is different, but, um, anyway, uh, but, um, I’ve never had bread cheese, but, um, it’s intriguing to me, but I’m also probably not gonna go near it because of, uh, uh, you know, what it, what it did to your body,

[00:02:40] Jeffrey: it’s, here’s a, here’s a 2005 Bon Appit article. Love Halloumi. You need to know about bread, cheese.

[00:02:47] Brett: there you

[00:02:47] Jeffrey: I’m just bringing Halmi back in the conversation cause I have a feeling.

[00:02:51] Brett: You call it, you’re like a goddamn cheese bro.

[00:02:54] Jeffrey: Yeah. I, my

[00:02:55] Brett: A cheese

[00:02:56] Christina: I’m, I’m, I’m also seeing Tuia, uh, but, but I’m, I’m sure

[00:03:00] Jeffrey: Yeah, that’s the same. That translates to bread cheese. Apparently that’s like Swedish or Finn, depending on the fucking website.

[00:03:06] Chat. G P T Save me

[00:03:09] Christina: Exactly. Chat. Pt. What is bread cheese?

[00:03:14] Brett: I have it loaded right now. Let’s see. What is bread, cheese, bread, cheese, also known as, who is the type of cheese that originated Finland. It is a semi-hard cheese that is traditionally made from cows milk, but can also be made from a combination of cows and goats milk. The cheese is typically formed into a loaf or a round shape and is often served, sliced or grilled.

[00:03:39] And then it goes on for multiple paragraphs that I’m not gonna, I’m not just gonna make our, like we, we could have chat, G p t, write our podcast. We could just do a whole podcast reading from chat g p t, but I feel like it would be a bit dry.

[00:03:56] Jeffrey: That is not the fun or even effective way to use chat. G P T I found I, I did just a little bit of that stuff and I was like, this is kind of boring. But then it was, the coding was just like, oh.

[00:04:07] Brett: I missed, I missed last week’s conversation, but I, I have a couple, I wanna, I wanna like revive it a little bit. Maybe after mental health corner, we can talk just a little bit about my experiences with chat G P T and where I see it fitting in and, and what dangers I see. Uh, do you want me to start?

[00:04:25] Christina: Yes. I want you to start because you, uh, are the one who’ve you’ve, you’ve been gone. So we need, we need to hear from,

Mental Health Corner

[00:04:31] Brett: So, uh, the day, the day that I felt better, the day I got some relief from my stomach pain, I immediately, uh, felt like I was getting manic. Um, I went from. Stuck, stuck on the couch to like, oh my God, I can catch up on everything in a day. And, uh, uh, so I, I did not take my, uh, ADHD meds. Um, I got exercise, I took a shower.

[00:05:01] I ate all three meals and, and, uh, went to bed on time and I slept fine that night. I woke up the next morning, still feeling manic. Um, but I have slept every night since then. Um, not as much as I usually do. My body, like left to its own devices, once nine and a half hours of sleep. Um, and I’ve been getting more like seven, but I am sleeping.

[00:05:28] Um, so I would say I’m in a hypomanic phase right now, and I kinda, if I can maintain my, like, self-care levels at this point, um, I can, I can live with this for as long as it lasts. Uh, I, I, I rather enjoy it. I’ve, I’ve written so much code and kept up with work and kept up with my, like, personal relationships and been able to settle down and watch arrowverse shows every night. Um, it’s, it’s working out. I, I can work with this.

[00:06:02] Jeffrey: Nice.

[00:06:03] Brett: Jeff

[00:06:05] Jeffrey: Uh, I’m podcasting for the first time through Progressive lenses, which is awesome. Thought I’d hate it. I do kind of hate it actually, but I don’t hate, I don’t hate it. Like, oh my God, I have to wear progressive lenses. It’s like now my reading glasses are always on me and it’s kind of awesome. And, and related to that, I just had a birthday and,

[00:06:27] Brett: Oh yeah. Happy.

[00:06:29] Christina: Yes, exactly. Happy.

[00:06:30] Jeffrey: Thank you. And, uh, I like, I don’t, I don’t like birthdays, like I like to celebrate them or anything, but I like anything that kind of marks a beginning or, or suggests a clean slate, even if it’s sort of a false promise . Um, and uh, and I’m also just feel like every time I’ve been in a seven year, 27, 37, 47, I always felt like I might as well just round up at this point.

[00:06:58] And so the time between 47 and 50, I have a feeling is gonna feel like the time between 37 and 40, which is like, I’m just 50 that whole time . But it’s just like

[00:07:08] Brett: do that. I, I round up by fives no matter what age I am. Like right, right now I’m 45 and if someone asks me, I have to think hard to realize I’m only 44.

[00:07:18] Christina: See, see, see, I ran down by 10,

[00:07:20] Jeffrey: around town by 10. Yep. Yep. That’s one way to do it, for sure. Um, but yeah, I don’t know. Like every once in a while, uh, the way Facebook plays out on your birthday can be nice. Other times I’m like, I don’t buy it, you know? But like, but, uh, this time around was just nice. I got some nice messages and stuff. So anyway, and I’m just kind of, I don’t know, I’m like, weirdly, not physically, but like existentially, I’m comfortable in my years.

[00:07:49] physically, I’m not at all comfortable in my years. Um, so it was a, it was a, a big year of changes for me in terms of. Medication, which is an ongoing sort of collaboration. Uh, it is a collaboration, but I was gonna say calibration. Um, but yeah, I was there. I got to spend uh, my birthday with my dad and uh, my parents were divorced when I was two and my dad lives in a different state and this is only the third or fourth time I’ve ever been with him on my birthday, which was kind of fun.

[00:08:19] Kind of unusual.

[00:08:21] Christina: Yeah. That’s nice. That’s really nice.

[00:08:23] Jeffrey: it was good. Especially cuz I like my parents and

[00:08:27] Brett: Lucky.

[00:08:27] Christina: is, which is fantastic. I, I, I, I love hearing that. Yeah.

[00:08:31] Jeffrey: Yeah. And then from like, speaking of my parents from a pure, um, joy standpoint, um, so my dad and my stepmom are, are very much, uh, like I am like them. I, they, my stepmom is an artist. She makes artists, she makes art out of junk. Um, my dad is a total hobbyist, like electronics and a workshop and all this stuff.

[00:08:50] So whenever I visit them, it feels just like how life ought to feel. But it’s also, there’s a real taste for the absurd. And so my dad gave a paintball to my boys to shoot into the ravine off the deck. And my stepmom, who used to be an elementary school teacher, was like, I was inside with her. She’s like, I could put my Turkey suit on and I could go out there and they could shoot me

[00:09:12] And she’s like, exactly what she did. She put a Turkey suit on, she had a gobbler that she was shaking. And she ran around while my sons shot her. And I was just like, you know what? This is great. I love absurdity so much. Absurdity equals joy. , that’s what chicken.

[00:09:30] Brett: I forgot to, uh, I forgot to mention, uh, I had a psych appointment this week, um, Monday. And, uh, I was told that my provider is leaving the clinic.

[00:09:45] Christina: Oof.

[00:09:46] Brett: and so the, the woman I was seeing before her when I was still at the same clinic, um, had come back and I was like, oh, well I’ll just go back to this woman who, you know, saved my ass.

[00:10:00] She was the one who gave me vyvance after years of not being allowed to medicate my adhd. So, but she’s leaving at the same time. Everyone’s leaving and the one psychiatrist they have left in the practice is not taking new, new clients.

[00:10:16] Jeffrey: Oh.

[00:10:17] Brett: So hopefully I will be able to, my, my psychiatrist is moving north to Edina, uh, which is farther than I would want to

[00:10:26] Jeffrey: Yeah, it’s just, why don’t you say how far for people that aren’t in Minnesota

[00:10:31] Brett: I think, I think it’s about two hours.

[00:10:33] Jeffrey: Yeah. It’s about

[00:10:33] Brett: Um, and, uh, uh, but she would do telehealth. Uh, so, so if that works out and I can get into her, uh, new client list after she moves, um, I’ll be okay. If not, I’m fucked. Like there is nowhere left to go in Winona and especially nowhere that would, that understands that treating A D H D prevents, uh, addictive behavior, um, like that is somehow despite, you know, plenty of studies to back that up.

[00:11:07] It is not common wisdom among medical providers. Um, and I could easily lose my ADHD meds again, which would be catastrophic,

[00:11:17] Jeffrey: we can talk about this offline, but I have somebody for you who I’ve never had to see in person. She’s actually over by the South Dakota border, um, and she’s my medication manager. So if you, if you get stuck or if Psychology Today doesn’t help or anything, I know this person would understand exactly what you’re describing.

[00:11:33] Brett: Cool. All right. That’s all. I, Christina, your turn.

[00:11:38] Christina: Yeah. Well, I’m, I, um, like cross my fingers for you, um, on, on that front, Brett, because like, that’s, uh, beyond like, stressful. I, I, I know, but, but I, I’m hopeful that like, with the Teladoc stuff, hopefully like telemedicine is in a much different place than it was three years ago, which is like the good thing.

[00:11:59] So hopefully that will continue. But, but also hopefully like, uh, it’s great that you have, uh, Jeff, um, to, to maybe give you, um, some names too. But yeah, so, um, thinking that, thinking good thoughts for you there. Um, as for me, so, um, I’m okay. Uh, I’ll, I’ll just be be honest. Um, right before we recorded this, uh, Microsoft, uh, who, uh, owns, uh, GitHub, um, announced that they’re doing 10,000, uh, layoffs, um, uh, between now and, and the end of March.

[00:12:30] And, uh, you know, as far as I know, uh, I, my job is safe. Uh, and, and my colleagues at GitHub are safe, but. This is the sort of thing that that does weigh in on my mental health. Um, and it, it, it’s, uh, and, and I think it weighs in on anybody’s mental health, but I think it’s, it’s one of those things where, because I’m such a workaholic and because so much of my identity is tied up to my job and because of the past, uh, frankly, I’m not going to say P T S D, but, but PTs d like experiences that I had working in, in the, the media industry, which I know Jeff can relate to.

[00:13:09] Um, seeing things like what’s been happening in, in the tech industry, uh, you know, over the last few months, but, you know, is, is hard. But then seeing it affect, potentially affect, you know, people that, that I’ve worked with and, and know and care about, like, and, and I, and I don’t know who’s safe and who’s not yet, right?

[00:13:26] Like, which is like, honestly like the, one of the, the worst parts. Um, and I’m not even impacted as far as I know, knock on wood, but. It, it’s hard. Um, and so these are those things where, you know, like I, um, am very fortunate that I now work in an industry that has better severance and that has better policies and that has, uh, better job demand than, than what I used to do.

[00:13:51] But it, it’s still really, really difficult. And, and it’s one of those things that’s challenging for me. Um, like, it, it just, it, it’s hard. So it, it does impact my mental health when, when things like this happen. Like I can’t just turn it off, you know what I mean? Like, it’s just, it, it, I, I, I have like a very real reaction to it.

[00:14:11] So, um, so that, that happened right before we, uh, started recording. Um, other than that, um, you know, it’s been pretty, it’s been pretty good. I’m actually, um, going out of town with my mom, um, wheelie for Vegas tomorrow morning. Yeah. For Adele. And I’m really, really excited about this because this trip has been in the works since, you know, like.

[00:14:34] November or December of, of, um, of, of 2021. Um, and then the, the concert was supposed to be in, um, April of, of last year, or, or March of last year rather. Uh, and, and Adele, um, postponed her, um, her concert series. Um, and, um, so we’re going, um, our concert is on Saturday. We’re gonna go see the, the Beatles, um, se show on, uh, on, on Friday.

[00:15:00] Uh, we get in tomorrow. Um, my mom has never been to Vegas before and, uh, I’m super, super excited to like, show her Vegas. We’re staying at the Venetian, which um, is one of my favorite, um, like, uh, hotels, uh, strip things because they, every, every room is a suite, so you get, you know, I think it’s a better experience.

[00:15:22] And then I think she’ll, um, like. The layout of, you know, kind of the, the Italian, um, like the, you know, uh, theme of, of the hotel. Um, you know, I can’t take her to Rome, but I can take her to fake, you know, Vegas, Rome. So, um, it’s, uh, so I’m, I’m really excited about that. And, uh, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I don’t know, I’m, I’m really, I feel just like really happy that I can do that for her.

[00:15:48] And, and she’s really, really excited. So that, that definitely helps like my mental health a lot to, you know, bring other people joy. So, yeah.

[00:15:58] Jeffrey: That’s great

[00:16:00] Brett: Nice.

[00:16:01] Jeffrey: love.

chatGPT (Part III)

[00:16:02] Brett: I wanna, I wanna dredge chat, g p t back.

[00:16:06] Jeffrey: Drudge suggests that Jack g p t is not at the surface already.

[00:16:13] Brett: So I, I’m fascinated with chat. G P T. I know you guys already talked about it a bit. Um, I’ve had, uh, consulting clients that have come to me with like, excited that chat, G p t wrote them say an Apple script to do something and they show it to me and they’re like, what do you think? And it has been clearly wrong.

[00:16:37] Like, I mean, I can look at it and immediately say, this does not, this will not do what you think it’s gonna do. Um, but before we started recording, I decided to just try, um, some prompts for various AppleScript tasks and it nailed every once. So I don’t, I think if you give it the right queries, you can get good code.

[00:16:59] Um, like when I ask it to write Ruby Methods for me, uh, it gives me honestly, The best, the, the most accepted answers. Um, like, uh, stack overflow worthy answers for doing basic things. Uh, bubble sorting and sorting a raise by length and things like that that can be done in, in one line. And it, and it nails it, it does a really good job.

[00:17:24] And it’s, it’s become a great little tool that prevents me from having to go to stack overflow to answer basic questions. But you can’t do it if you don’t understand the language to begin with because it’s very, I would say

[00:17:42] Christina: Very

[00:17:42] Brett: 50 chance, yeah, it, there’s a 50 50 chance. It gives you code that looks good and doesn’t work at all, or, or, or has, you know, faults that will bite you in the end.

[00:17:54] Um, overall though, still I’m impressed. Um, I also have been using it, uh, for content development, um, because. I can give it like a very specific prompt, like, uh, write a Terraform script to spin up an Oracle compute instance and describe how to define the variables necessary and where to find them. And it will take that prompt and basically write out a tutorial for me that I can then, I mean, it takes some editing and it gets a, it gets some stuff wrong, but as a prompt to like get going on an article.

[00:18:34] Um, like sometime ask it what the top three reasons to use markdown are, and it will write you an article that honestly, I, it’s the exact same thing I would’ve said, and, and it even sounds like my voice. It’s weird.

[00:18:49] Christina: It. Well, honestly, your your, your stuff I’m sure has been used in the model, right? Like, like I, I like, you know what I mean? Like that, that, that’s the, the truth is that, um, cuz they’re, you know, scraping a bunch of, um, resources and, and I would, I’m sure that, that you are, things you’ve written are definitely part of the corpus.

[00:19:06] Sorry, go on Jeff

[00:19:07] Brett: Ask it to do it in Dickensian style and you’ll get a different answer.

[00:19:13] Jeffrey: I find that using chat, G P T for code purposes is helping to sort of. Helping me get closer to a definition of a kind of, um, programmatic literacy that I’ve always been kind of seeking and wanting to have for myself and describe for others. Just like you can’t sit down and code, but when presented with code, you can ba basically understand what’s happening or, or just on the most simple, simple level you are able to create in text a multi-step algorithm that can be translated into code.

[00:19:50] Right. Um, and what I’ve found so kind of interesting and fun in chat, G p t is like, it almost, it quite frequently gives me the wrong thing. And if I, if I give it the error, it always goes, sorry about that

[00:20:05] Brett: yeah,

[00:20:05] Jeffrey: I was trying to have you go this way and now I’m gonna have you go that way. Which is such a bizarre.

[00:20:10] Brett: you can keep adding to your query and like, it’s a chat, right? And you can say, well, that won’t do this. Or, or, why does it do this? And it will continue to, uh, refine its response. And I love that it gives you a description. Anytime it writes a method for me, it will explain to me afterwards why it used the, you know, method calls that it used, why it used the functions it used, um, and what each one does, which is more than you will often get from a stack overflow answer.

[00:20:42] Jeffrey: And I’ve found that when you ask it to write a complicated function or a script, it will comment it, um, and comment it pretty well. I mean, but the other thing that I find really useful is I have it, write me something and then I just go line by line and say, what does this do? What does this do? If they haven’t already explained it right.

[00:21:00] And then the other thing I do that helps me a lot just in learning is I say, what’s another way to do. Right. Like, or like I did one early on where I was like, show me how to, you know, scrape the title of an article in a webpage in Node. Now show me in Python. Now show me in Ruby. Right? And it was like, you can just kind of look at how those things, um, are different across languages.

[00:21:21] It’s just, to me it’s like an incredible teaching tool. But like you said, you can’t just take it and assume that what you’ve got is correct . You definitely have to, you have to fact check it, but you can fact check it with chat G P T for the most part, which is crazy. Crazy. I love when it’s like, oh, sorry about that.

[00:21:37] No, you’re right. You know, that’s

[00:21:38] Christina: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:21:39] Jeffrey: that’s the least thing. I did not expect that for it to be like, oh yeah, no, you’re totally right. Um, you know, it’s, it’s beautiful.

[00:21:47] Christina: yeah, exactly. It’s like, uh, let, let me find a way of explaining myself, you know, which, which might still be wrong, might still be wrong, but, but, but let me, let me find a way of, of, of explaining myself and, and correcting myself on this. Yeah. Um, si, Simon Wilson, uh, who, who’s, uh, um, uh, um, you know, one of the creators of Django.

[00:22:03] Great guy, and, and his log is, is so good. Um, Simon wilson.net. We’ve mentioned, um, his stuff before, but

[00:22:10] Jeffrey: Yeah, except the last time I mentioned him, he was gratitude and I called him Simon Williamson. Sorry, Simon. Anyway, go

[00:22:17] Christina: but, but he, he, he’s been, um, doing like, uh, you know, his kind of like, he’s been, uh, using various G PT three, 3.5 things, um, for months now, uh, with, with co-pilot and with Codex and, and with Chad C p t and, and using the API and other stuff and doing these sorts of, uh, I guess kind of experiments. And it’s been documenting.

[00:22:39] This is what I love about him so much, is that he documents every single thing that he does and what he learns. Um, his, his website is just so freaking good. Um, but yeah, that, that’s one of the things that some of his examples have said over the months, as, as I’ve been, cuz I’ve been obsessed with, I’m so glad that you two are obsessed with this too, cuz I’ve been obsessed with this stuff for like months now.

[00:22:58] And, um, I, I feel like now because, because, uh, as we talked about last week, J Jeff, the interface is what makes chat g p t different. It’s like the, the stuff was already out there, but the interface has, has, I think just opened it up to a whole new audience. And so, um, the discussion is now, it’s not just me screaming on Twitter or on my YouTube show or in like, private conversations.

[00:23:22] It’s um, like everybody’s having able to have these things. But Simon’s you know, tests have kind of shown what you’ve, what you’re talking about, how, you know, you can like, argue with it and it’ll, you know, kind of correct itself and, and give you results. But I think you point out a good thing, um, Brett, and honestly this is to me at least a little bit encouraging right now, is that yeah, you do still need to have a certain understanding of what you’re, what you’re looking for to be able to get the best results out of it.

[00:23:49] Like if you’re just going to be relying on any of its output for anything, like, for some stuff that are some basic, you know, like, well, I mean, and even then, I mean, there could be errors, but if, if you’re talking about some like very basic concrete kind of like factual things or, or some very basic like mathematical stuff, like I think that the results you get from it, uh, could definitely, um, be kind of probably taken without doing fact checking, but for anything else.

[00:24:17] Yeah. Um, it really does help to have a, an understanding. Of what you’re doing. Um, that’s why, you know, GitHub, that’s why we call it co-pilot And, and not like, you know, it, it’s like your, your pair programmer, like, you know it, it’s sitting, you know, behind, you know, sitting in a cockpit with you. It’s not writing your code for you.

[00:24:34] And that’s how I always try to explain it to people. I’m like, look, this isn’t doing it for you. You need to have an understanding of what code you’re doing, and the more you do, the better it will be. And the same is true for chat G P T, right? Like the more you know, the better the results you can get because the prompts you can give it are better.

[00:24:49] And the more you can like, kind of argue or disregard, you know, if it’s gonna give you an Apple script that is not correct versus, and that honestly makes sense too. I, I don’t know, like the cor because you know, the, the corres for a lot of the code stuff is obviously GitHub and although there is a lot of AppleScript on GitHub, there’s way more Ruby code and there’s way more, way more like bash code and other things.

[00:25:11] And so that’s going to play a role in what types of coding it can do and learn from, right? Like the data sets. All kind of go into that. So it’s, you know, the, the more you use it, um, at least with, with copilot, the better it gets. Um, but I, you know, the, the better these models will get over time, these things will get better.

[00:25:31] But yeah, the, it’s, to me it’s, it’s, I kind of appreciate that you have to know a little bit about what you’re doing, because that makes, I don’t know, a, it makes you work a little bit more for the results, which kind of makes it feel more like a puzzle and, and b you know, like, I think that it, it can hopefully prevent against some of the abuses, uh, that could potentially come from it.

[00:25:55] Brett: Like I could see eventually a day coming where code becomes irrelevant because. We can just tell a computer what we want to accomplish as as complex as we want, and it writes all the code, like the, like the id, the, the job of coder, uh, could eventually be irrelevant. I did want to mention like one of the great features of Warp the Warp Terminal, um, is there ai, uh, like you can just write out like, how do I colorize a man page and it will give you the command to do it.

[00:26:29] Um, I term just added open AI

[00:26:33] Christina: Oh, did it?

[00:26:34] Brett: If you

[00:26:34] Jeffrey: Oh, it did.

[00:26:35] Brett: if you open the composer, you can write out like what you want to accomplish and hit the Engage AI button and it will give you like four or five different ways to accomplish whatever prompt you gave it. Um, built right into the terminal and there’s no keyboard shortcut, which I find annoying.

[00:26:54] You have to like, you can pop open the composer with a keyboard shortcut. You can tell about your, your query, but then you have to grab your mouse and. Click the, the open AI button. But, uh,

[00:27:05] Christina: Is this an A beta or, or what? What was this saying? Cuz I haven’t

[00:27:08] Brett: what am I running? Um, I am on build, yeah. Beta nine

[00:27:17] Christina: Okay, cool. Oh, that’s awesome. That’s really cool.

[00:27:22] Brett: Yeah, it is. Um, also, uh, there are multiple menu bar chat, G p t implementations for Mac.

[00:27:31] Um, the one I’m using, they’re all the same. Like they’re all just, you know, web kit browsers into,

[00:27:37] Christina: absolutely. Into a menu bar.

[00:27:38] Brett: AI website. But, um, the one I’m using right now I love, except it has a hard coded, uh, shortcut for command shift G, which is find backwards when you’re in an editor. So I’ll be like, searching and I’ll hit

[00:27:54] Christina: Oh yeah. That’s terrible.

[00:27:55] Brett: hit command shifty and, and the chat window pops up.

[00:27:58] Uh, so I’m, I might try to find one that at least has like a

[00:28:03] Jeffrey: What is the one you’re using?

[00:28:05] Brett: what?

[00:28:06] Jeffrey: What is the one you’re using?

[00:28:08] Brett: Um, they’re all just called chat, G p T, um,

[00:28:13] Jeffrey: Yeah, I’m using one in, um, Chrome that just, just for the purpose of downloading

[00:28:17] Brett: the one I’m using is from VI Vince, l w t, um, chat, G P T Mac it’s called. But they’re like, I’ve seen four or five different implementations of this,

[00:28:33] Christina: Yeah.

[00:28:34] Brett: just little swift

[00:28:35] Christina: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. His, his is the number one on, uh, the first GitHub result I got. He’s,

[00:28:40] Brett: yeah, and I found it, I found it via that menu bar. Jeff pointed out, uh, a site. I can’t remember. I’ll, we should

[00:28:48] Jeffrey: I am, I’m taking notes for show notes, but I’m taking ’em on an index card, so

[00:28:53] Christina: which, which I.

[00:28:54] Jeffrey: you know what, I have not been able to type while we’re talking. I cannot do this podcast and write show notes. I cannot do it, but I can write on this index card.

[00:29:03] Christina: I love it.

[00:29:03] Jeffrey: a, it’s a big index card, not just a little one. Uh,

[00:29:06] Christina: the, I I I I appreciate that. I, I, but I love that you lo that you know that about yourself because they are two different, um, um, like modalities and I can type and talk at the same time. Um, I would actually probably have a harder time writing and talking at the same

[00:29:20] Jeffrey: Interesting. Well, I don’t know if you know this about me, but I cannot type without looking at the keyboard, so that just adds another layer of sort of

[00:29:28] Christina: no. Okay. No, no. But that actually makes sense because, but, but you could probably, I don’t know, can you write without looking

[00:29:34] Jeffrey: I mean, I can write, yeah. I can kind of keep an eye on it, you know what I mean, while I’m writing Yeah.

[00:29:39] Christina: Yeah. Whereas I’m

[00:29:40] Brett: no way I could write

[00:29:41] Jeffrey: It, well rem but, but like years with a reporter’s notebook in my hand, trying to get every kind of

[00:29:46] Christina: No, right.

[00:29:47] Jeffrey: it automatic

[00:29:48] Christina: It does. Except, so what’s funny about, it’s that for me and my reporter’s notebook has always been my phone because I, I literally started like in like the smartphone era. And so, um, because when I graduated from college, like literally it was like iPhone was already out. So for me, if it wasn’t a recorder, I’ve always taken notes on my phone.

[00:30:11] So it, it, so, so you see what I’m saying? So it, it’s a similar sort of thing, but yeah, I, I’m a, I’m a touch typist, as is Brett, so

[00:30:19] Brett: did you guys ever use Pair Note?

[00:30:22] Jeffrey: What’s that?

[00:30:22] Christina: No.

[00:30:23] Brett: a, it was a Mac app. I don’t remember if they ever made an iOS version, but you, it would record what you were listening

[00:30:30] Christina: yeah, yeah. I remember

[00:30:32] Brett: note, any note you typed would get a timestamp

[00:30:36] Jeffrey: Shut

[00:30:36] Brett: you could just click on your, you could click on your note and you could.

[00:30:41] What was happening when

[00:30:42] Christina: I remember this now. I

[00:30:44] Brett: notes didn’t have to, your notes didn’t have to explain everything. They just had to be like, uh, here’s a point where we learned about blah, blah, blah, and you just click it and get the actual audio from what you were experiencing at the time. It was

[00:30:58] Christina: I, I remember this now. I don’t think I ever used it hardcore. I u I used to use Evernote ironically, um, for those purposes be because, yeah, because I had like, uh, one of those pens that that integrated with, with Evernote that could

[00:31:10] Jeffrey: Oh, right. Yeah, I remember

[00:31:12] Christina: uh, like the live scribe pen I think they were called. And, um, but honestly, a lot of times for me it it, because I, the way that I would, I would take notes on calls is like a, I would try to record the phone calls, which.

[00:31:25] You know, once they got rid of the headphone jack especially got complicated. I would love to talk to you about whatever your recording setup is now. Um, uh, Jeff, because I’m always Oh, yeah, well that’s primarily what I used. I would use, primarily use Skype and call Recorder. Um, and now I guess it would be Zoom, but, but Skype worked well because you could have, you could actually dial a real phone number.

[00:31:42] Um, and, and obviously, you know, some of the rules are dependent on what state you’re in, deter determinant of, you know,

[00:31:48] Jeffrey: Yeah, totally. Had to make sure it was a one one party recording

[00:31:51] Christina: one party or, or, or letting people know. But a lot of times what I would do is like, if there were calls that I would be on, you know, like I’m just such a fast typer and because I can like listen and kind of type at the same time, I would basically just almost transcribe like the call while I would be on the call.

[00:32:07] Um, you know what I mean? Like that was sort of my kind

[00:32:11] Jeffrey: I can, I can basically do that and did that. It’s just, it was, it was a mess because it, as long as I was on a phone call, it didn’t matter that I was looking at my keyboard. Right. But if I’m on a Zoom call or something like that, I have to give attention somehow and then that’s just forget about it.

[00:32:27] Brett: so Evernote got acquired.

[00:32:29] Christina: Yep.

[00:32:30] Brett: I think we can all agree Evernote, Evernote is, is shit these days.

[00:32:35] Christina: Oh yeah. I, I stopped paying six or seven years ago.

[00:32:38] Brett: yeah. I, I, I left even longer ago than that. Like I was very gung ho on Evernote when it

[00:32:44] Christina: You were like, you were one of the very, I, I, I was an Evernote user, I think because of you. Because they had a Mac app, like beta thing or something. And you got us. We wrote about it too. Well, you wrote about it and you got us into it, and so you were the reason that I ever used it to begin with. You were like one of their biggest evangelists for a long time.

[00:33:01] Brett: yeah.

[00:33:01] Jeffrey: It was great in the moment that it was great in the moment that it was the only thing it did that.

[00:33:06] Brett: The lock in became apparent the first time you wanted to move your notes and you realized that there was no viable way to extract your information from Gavin. That’s when I left, and then I watched it just bloat and bloat

[00:33:25] Christina: Yeah, for, for me, when I should have left and I still paid, and this was the thing, and I paid because out of this bullshit sense of loyalty, she had this corporation that had raised hundreds of millions of dollars, but I remembered when they were smaller and I was like, it’s only 50 bucks. 50 bucks a year or whatever.

[00:33:42] I will pay this. I don’t really use it that much, but I’ve got my notes and this is fine. I’ll pay my $50 a year or whatever. You know, my, my, my fee is. Um, but when I probably the writing was on the wall, like when they, remember when they did the recipes app?

[00:33:55] Jeffrey: Yeah.

[00:33:56] Christina: Yeah, they did like a fucking recipes app Evernote, like recipes or some shit.

[00:34:00] And I was like, okay. I was like, and they were selling socks and they were doing all this stupid shit and I was like, okay, Phil, whatever his last name was. I was like, you are absolutely. Yeah. I was like, you are absolutely. What are you doing? Right, because I got like the moleskin integration. I got the live scribe integration.

[00:34:18] That was okay. Then when they start, then, then they acquired and ruined Skitch, and I was like, I, I, I can almost, I can, I can almost,

[00:34:27] Brett: then stop supporting it. Like sketch is shit now. Yeah,

[00:34:30] Christina: been shit for years, but like, but they, but almost as soon as they acquired it, they ruined it. Right? And, and so then yeah, I was like, okay, that’s fine. But then they raised their prices to the point where, for me, and I am a price insensitive user, and when I’m like, okay, actually this is now going to make me go through the hassle of canceling, like, but that was, that was six or seven years ago.

[00:34:53] But yeah, they’ve been acquired by somebody,

[00:34:56] Brett: bending spoons, bought them and immediately laid off. Laid off 18% of their staff, um, saying they were trying to compensate for overexpansion and inefficiency, both of which I woul