292: The Legend of Christina

Overtired 292

[00:00:00] Christina:

[00:00:03] You’re listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren, Brett Terpstra is indisposed this week. We decided to give him the week off, but person who is not indisposed and is here with me is, uh, my good pal, Jeff sovereigns. Gunzel Jeff, how are you?

[00:00:18] Jeff: I’m good. Not indisposed for once. Uh I’m great. Thank you. How are you?

[00:00:23] Christina: I’m good. I’m good. I got to spend, uh, time yesterday with, uh, some friends of mine who I haven’t seen in a while. Um, one is visiting from out of town and another, she lives nearby, but we just, she’s far enough away that I don’t see her that often. And so I gotta hang out with, um, her and her husband and her baby, and I got to go to a park and go on swings.

[00:00:42] I hadn’t been on a swing in probably 20 years, so that was fun. That was really fun. Um, and, uh, yeah, no, I’m good. Um, so, uh, we, we actually, for, for listeners, we recorded like three days ago. So this is like, it you’re hearing it a week [00:01:00] later, but we recorded like three days ago. So, um, what’s been going on with you over the last little bit.

[00:01:06] Jeff how’s how’s the COVID recovery and everything. Uh, the, the back to life after the, the road trip and everything going.

[00:01:12] Jeff: COVID recovery is good. Back to life is good. We tried to put in a new like vanity and medicine cabinet and stuff in the bathroom today, and none of them really work. So we’re sitting on top of a lot of stuff that we really just need to return and replace. So that’s a little like frustrating. Um, but so otherwise since then, I don’t know.

[00:01:34] I’ve just been kind of trying to get my feedback on the ground after my trip and the COVID before it. So how about you?

[00:01:40] Christina: Um, I’m good. I’m I’ve been, yeah, again, I just, you know, had like work stuff and, uh, and like I said, I, I went to a park with a baby, which was really fun. So

[00:01:48] Jeff: a baby. That should be a activity you can choose any day. I.

[00:01:51] Christina: I agree what was funny because we were like having this conversation, we were like, why don’t they have like playgrounds for adults because playgrounds are freaking [00:02:00] fun. Like, you know, like, like big like adult slides and, and, you know, uh, seesaws and swings and, and bouncy castles. And, you know, like, there’s, you, you could have like other stuff too, where people could like, turn it into CrossFit stuff, I guess.

[00:02:15] But like, you know, like there’s, you could have rules, like, okay, it’s indoors. Cause we don’t want the bugs, but like, you know, so the park we were at was act absolutely outdoors, but you know, you could, you could have rules like, okay, you can’t bring alcohol cuz we don’t want the liability issue. But like, why not just like have like more than like a David busters, but like a full on like playground type of situation.

[00:02:35] Like I think that that would be, that would be for me, I would, I would much prefer that to like the normal gym. I’m not even gonna lie.

[00:02:42] Jeff: What’s as you were talking, I, I had this, I was trying to kind of picture it. And one of the things that happens at a park for kids that I would actually enjoy as an adult is how kids can be hanging out at the picnic table. And then they can decide to just run off and do a thing on their own, or do a thing with one other person.

[00:02:59] Then they come [00:03:00] back to the picnic table for a bit. That’s just kind of a good model for an introvert, uh, to be socially,

[00:03:06] Christina: Exactly. Exactly. Like you could still, you could have like, like, like the, the picnic table of whatever, you know, and people are like, yeah, I’m gonna go to the climbing wall now, or I’m gonna go in the swings and then you come back and like, I’m gonna hang out with my friends, you know? And it’s like completely cool.

[00:03:19] Jeff: Yeah. Just someone just needs someone to keep the juice boxes cold.

[00:03:22] Christina: exactly. So, so I’m gonna be working on a business plan for, for my adult park idea. Um, adult, not adult park, but adult playground idea. And, uh, also like in addition to, to the no alcohol, no sex stuff, because that’s no, again, liability stuff. Yep. Have a code of conduct and be like, look, if you meet people and you like, like each other, that’s awesome.

[00:03:48] But like, don’t, don’t fuck at the adult playground. Like

[00:03:51] Jeff: that’s when you upgrade to the mall

[00:03:53] Christina: exactly.

[00:03:54] Jeff: or a parking lot or

[00:03:55] Christina: A parking lot or like yeah. Or yeah,

[00:03:57] Jeff: you wanna get on to. Yeah. All right. [00:04:00] And all the other people can hang out. Just slide, stop, slide. Stop. Love it. All right. I’m in. You need, like, what do you need? 20 bucks. 40 bucks. Get you started.

[00:04:09] Christina: yeah, sure. That, that, that that’ll definitely be enough. Um, listeners, let us know, uh, what you think of my adult playground idea. Um, and, uh, and it’s probably a terrible idea, but, but, uh, yeah, I mean,

[00:04:21] Jeff: wanna give him your GoFundMe address?

[00:04:23] Christina: yeah, I was gonna say gofundme.com/adult playground. No, that actually probably

[00:04:29] Jeff: Nope.

[00:04:30] Christina: I don’t wanna do that.

[00:04:31] I don’t

[00:04:31] Jeff: not the one you wanna, Nope.

[00:04:32] Christina: That’s not the one.

[00:04:34] Jeff: look, there’s some shopping that has to happen.

[00:04:36] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say so, so, so, so let us know, but we think about the idea first and then I’ll, I’ll, I’ll like be soliciting for a, for investors.

[00:04:46] Jeff: awesome.

[00:04:47] Christina: Okay. All right. Should, should, should we do our MHC.

[00:04:50] Jeff: Let’s do our MHC model.

[00:04:53] Christina: All right. So MHC is our, our mental health corner. Um, uh, uh, Brett actually sent me some photos yesterday of him at [00:05:00] Mac stock with, um, some of, uh, some, some people, some mutual friends that we have, or no, no, no, Brett didn’t send it to me. Uh, uh, Jay Miller did of he, but he was with Brett and with mys and I was so jealous of him at max stock.

[00:05:12] So I really wanted to go this year and it didn’t work out, but, uh, I’m definitely, I’ve committed already. I’m definitely going to be there next year and I think you need to commit as well so that, uh,

[00:05:21] Jeff: I’d love to.

[00:05:22] Christina: so that we can actually have like a, an in person, Overtired comp, um, but, uh, how’s your mental health going?

[00:05:27] Jeff?

[00:05:29] Jeff: Good. I had a, this is a much lighter than normal. Check-in like yesterday, a friend of mine. And I, we had been planning this for like weeks decided to just like take the afternoon and go record shopping. And, um, and I realized he actually described this, but it, it, it hit so perfectly all of the. All of the knowledge I have about music starting from when I obsessed over reading the credits on MTV in like 1983, [00:06:00] uh, to the present day, all of that information I’ve saved and collected sometimes even without meaning to man, when I get to a record store, I feel like, oh, I am expert in something.

[00:06:13] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s.

[00:06:15] Jeff: And so that was kind of fun. And it was really, it was really fun to just, I haven’t really like intentionally gone record shopping, certainly with a friend in a long time, it can be awkward. Like, are you ready? No, I’d like some more time, but no hurry. You know, like you just don’t know what a person’s timing is or like their rituals when they go into the record store, like it takes me like 15 minutes to go through the new used records that have come in, you know, sometimes 20 minutes.

[00:06:41] Uh, I’m very slow anyhow, but it was a lovely time. But the thing that, the reason this is a mental health check in is, you know, I struggle with having too much stuff. And one of the categories of stuff is, you know, records and CDs. Cassette tapes. [00:07:00] And, and I’d been sitting on this box of seven inches since the early nineties.

[00:07:04] It’s awesome. It’s an awesome box of seven inches, but I’d never not then. And not now, do I play seven inches? Right. Um, and so I realized like, yeah, these are fun to look at, but why don’t I just put ’em back into the river here, you know? And so I brought him in and they don’t usually nobody buys 40 fives anymore.

[00:07:21] I mean, barely seven inches, whatever you wanna call ’em. But I brought him in and the guy was like, you know, he was trying to set the expectations low. He’s like, you know, we don’t really buy, I mean, I can take a look, man. And I got $300 store credit out of these things. And so, and 20% off, whatever I wanted to buy.

[00:07:39] And so I got to do the most massive record shopping I’ve ever done. And I bought like $350 worth of records for $10 and it felt so good to get rid of something. And then just so directly. You know, recycle it into something new and fresh. I wasn’t just trying to give up space. This was more about giving up sort of psychic space.

[00:07:59] Like this had [00:08:00] just been something I knew I should deal with for a long time. And it was just felt so good to buy so many records and not come home, uh, exhausted with shame like, oh, why did I spend so much money? Uh, so this is cool. I’ve never, I’ve never once spent that much money record shopping and it was just lovely.

[00:08:16] Anyway, so that’s my mental health chicken. It gave me a big boost and I’ve spent the, you know, yesterday and today just listening to the records and I love it. What a, what about you?

[00:08:25] Christina: Yeah, no, I mean, mine is pretty good. Like I said, I was able to be with some friends, which was really nice, like that always improves my mental health when I’m around people that I care about. I, um, I went to dinner with a person that I know mostly online. Apparently we had met before, but I unfortunately didn’t remember.

[00:08:42] And we went out to dinner on Friday and I was anticipating that it was gonna be like a dinner where cuz he just started a new job at. And was in town for that night. So I figured I was like, oh, well, it’ll be some of his colleagues. And then I’ll be kind of be like the fifth wheel. And it wasn’t, it was actually two people [00:09:00] that he’d worked with at previous jobs who just happened to work at, live in Seattle now.

[00:09:04] But the, you know, the other three of us didn’t know each other. Um, and so, um, like it was, it was kind of a nice, almost like dinner party sort of thing where, you know, we were all, it was, you know, you know, four people kind of, you know, three people getting to know each other. We had a mutual friend, but it was a really nice, like he, he picked a really good group of people to kind of meet up and nobody felt like they were, you know, like the fifth wheel and nobody felt like, you know, unin included.

[00:09:31] And, and that was really nice. And that got me thinking, I was like, oh, that’s a really nice way of maybe doing kind of group, you know, intros of things. Um, but, uh, but, but being around people helps my mental health a lot. And it’s one of those things where I can have my introverted moments. But it’s very, that that’s times when it’s like, okay, it’s actually really important for me now to be around people.

[00:09:54] And, and it just kind of reminds me, like, that’s what the hardest part of the last, you know, two plus years have been, has been [00:10:00] like not being around people because that, that really does impact me. I, you know, and, and, and it, it’s one of those things where at least for me, I’m like, oh, I don’t need this, but I do.

[00:10:11] And it’s one of those things where, cuz I’ve had times in my life where, I mean, actually this freaked me out. First time I ever went on Klonopin or anything like that was, I was having like major or phobia, which I’d never had before. And you know, you almost had to do kind of like exposure therapy to kind of like get past it and, and whatnot.

[00:10:28] But it was almost like, okay, I really do need to be around people. Um, even though I’m, I’m perfectly happy by myself sometimes like. Really important for me to be around people. And so it’s been nice, you know, the last, the last few days, you know, being around people who are either new or that I haven’t seen in a while, and like that does a lot for my mental health.

[00:10:50] Jeff: It’s amazing cuz you’re describing such a simple thing, but it’s so incredible that we’ve just been through a long period of time where it was completely impossible.

[00:10:59] Christina: Totally, [00:11:00] totally.

[00:11:00] Jeff: I’m not, I just continue to be astonished by that.

[00:11:03] Christina: No. I know. And, and I think that that is one of those things that we just, we had to do it and, and it’s going to have so many long lasting repercussions for so many people for kids, especially, you know, for young adults, but even for adults. Right. I think even for people who feel like, well, we’re, we’re, we’re stronger and we’ve gone through this stuff.

[00:11:19] It’s like, no, like our lives have had like real disruption and, and there are real long term consequences to that. And, and it’s really nice when you’re reconnected with people again, but there’s still, you know, kind of this, this fear in people’s, you know, some people have like, where, like, you know, am, am I going to get sick?

[00:11:37] Like, what are the risks? And I’m now at the point, and I can say this, like, fundamentally for me, the, the. Like the, the downsides of not being able to be like, kind of live my life in a more normal way and, and be around, people are much worse than like, what could happen if I got like long COVID[00:12:00]

[00:12:00] Jeff: Mm,

[00:12:00] Christina: you know, depending on like what that really even means, which we don’t really know what that means or, or whatnot.

[00:12:06] Like I’m, I’m not at a point where I’m, I’m, you know, afraid of dying of, of COVID. Um, and, and I think that at this point, unless, you know, you are, are, have like severe, like, you know, immunocompromised issues or, you know, are older, you know, there, there things that go into it. I think at this point, like we have a good treatment plan, not to say that it’s.

[00:12:27] Not a, a thing. Obviously people are still dying, but I’m just saying for me, that is not a strong risk thing. Like I’m not afraid of dying of COVID. And so for me, when I look at like the downsides of other stuff, like I, and I respect people who are like, I’m not gonna get on a plane. I’m not gonna be around people.

[00:12:41] I’m gonna be masked all the time. I get that. But for me, like the downsides of not being able to live my life, the way that I was like, the, the, the trade off is, is at this point, like, it’s, it’s too much. So it’s an interesting thing. Cause I have some friends who are not at that point and I totally respect that.

[00:12:59] And, and everybody has to [00:13:00] make their own decision. But for me, it’s like, yeah, I will. I’m completely okay with the risk of getting sick. If the other alternative is that I’m continuing to be alone and isolated and not able to have the things that I very much need that make life worth living.

[00:13:21] Jeff: right, right. Yeah. I mean, I, I have a friend who’s a therapist and struggled in during COVID times with a few, you know, if someone was really isolated and they were trying to figure out. You know, this is more like the coming out of COVID time or the coming out of like the really intense lockdown times.

[00:13:42] If a, if a person was kind of thinking, maybe I want to go to this party of three people, but I know that it’s dangerous. There’s people I’ve spoken to who were in that position, like spend as a therapist, another friend who’s like more of a kind of loose counselor role [00:14:00] who were just like, what do I say?

[00:14:01] Because they need that. And they may need that more than they need to protect themselves from COVID. Um, and I’m just hearing that when you talk, it’s such an intense, intensely important thing to acknowledge,

[00:14:16] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it gets lost sometimes. Right? Like I think that there are some people who are like way too much on the, like at like another, in the spectrum where like, they don’t even wanna acknowledge why people might take the risk. And I’m like, be because this isn’t going away, at least this is my perspective.

[00:14:32] And again, I, I’m not expecting everybody to agree with me on this, but this is not going to go away. This is not going to change. There are things that we can do, like when things are, are bad to, to mask up and to like, you know, take more precautions, but this is not going away. And so if I have to like learn to live in this world, then I need to like learn to live with it.

[00:14:51] And I, I cannot be isolated anymore. I, I can’t like if other people are cool with it fine. But like, I, I can’t.

[00:14:59] Jeff: [00:15:00] Mm-hmm

[00:15:00] Christina: know, and, and it’s not that I don’t care about other people and that I, you know, like that, I’m like, you know, like wanting people to die. It’s nothing to do with that. It’s just like, we all are going to have to find a way to move forward in life.

[00:15:12] And for me, I will take the risk of, of getting sick. And I’m also like, as long as I’m taking precautions myself and, and I’m not like forcing myself on people who are not taking those risks too, then, then like, frankly, like I’m not even gonna be like, oh, well, you know, you’re, you you’re infecting others.

[00:15:29] I’m like, well, maybe, but if they’re also choosing to be out, you know what I mean? Like we all have to kind of accept that, that that’s, that’s where we’re at. So I don’t know.

[00:15:40] Jeff: Yeah, we got to the point with neighbors during the pandemic. We’re in a we’re in Minneapolis and like typical urban houses are just like touching each other practically. And we have a fence between our two houses and we call it the border bar. We meet there with drinks, um, periodically. And it started in the pandemic when it was like 25 below.

[00:15:59] [00:16:00] We were just like, can’t stand it anymore. Let’s at least like stand six feet from each other in the freezing cold and have a drink. You know, it was like the one social thing we could imagine doing. But then also just like on a really mundane level, like today, one of my kids is out playing D and D with friends.

[00:16:16] The other one is out tubing in the river. Those are things that didn’t happen for two years, you know?

[00:16:22] Christina: And they’re important that it’s intense and they’re important. Being able to go tubing, being able to go to a park, being able to like, just play D and D with your friends. Like, it, it, it, it’s important to be around we’re social creatures and, and, um, you know, I think that there are, like, there would be ways where you could maybe like limit certain we didn’t ever, and we, that the problem is too, like as a society, we didn’t do anything.

[00:16:45] The right way, like we went full stop. There’s no interaction, right. There was, it was like a full, it was like a full stop of like, everything is open, everything is closed. And then it was like, everything is open again. You know, like, like some people were doing stopped openings, but there was, there was no kind of [00:17:00] like in between stuff.

[00:17:01] So it was one of those kind of like, it was like a switch that was like on or off. And, and we had to adjust to those things.

[00:17:07] Jeff: Mm-hmm mm-hmm . Yeah. And I do think like, I mean, now I think the way that it all went down, um, and the way that we came out of it and the way we are now as a, as a, you know, conflicted culture in America of many different cultures. The next thing that happens, like coronavirus, there’s never gonna be a, a lockdown again.

[00:17:29] Like I even, like, I I’ve told people before, like I already live, like I’m already like, uh, quarantine, adjacent dispositionally. And, and so like for me, the lockdown was like, oh, I love this. I don’t have to make too many choices socially. It’s like a huge hope for me. Um, but it’s just never gonna happen again.

[00:17:48] It’s gonna be fought intensely from the moment it’s even like hinted at, and that’s, that’s something I try not to spend too much time thinking about cuz nothing’s happened yet, but like, yeah, I can’t [00:18:00] help but think, oh, it’s gonna be a not nice time.

[00:18:04] Christina: No, totally. And, and the thing is like, I, I kind of understand, I, I was surprised that it happened to begin with, I just thought, like, at least in our country, like I was like, our, our independence has always been such that, that like, I, I was like, okay, I know that you can enforce this in Singapore and in China and some other places, but I don’t think you can enforce this in the United States.

[00:18:22] And, and, and the fact that we, we did as limited as it was, you know, um, was, was kind of a. A Testament, you know, but, but, but would that prove to me though, is it was like if 90% of the people do the right things, if that 10% doesn’t then it’s off or not. Like, like, I, I became frustrated because I was like, I still ended up getting sick.

[00:18:46] Um, even though I did all the right things, even though I, I didn’t take, I, I wasn’t acting in a way that was in any way, like going against guidelines. Right. Like I did all the right things. So what was this all for? You know what I mean? [00:19:00] Like, my, my parents’ friends still died. Like we still had people who weren’t able to be at, at their loved ones funerals.

[00:19:07] Um, we still had like these situations, like we did all the right things and it didn’t matter. So like, there’s a big part of me as unhelpful as this might be. And as selfish as this might be. And, and I’m fine with, with, with accepting that I’m, I’m just kind of like, yeah, we did all the right things and it didn’t fucking matter.

[00:19:24] So no, I’m not going to go through that again. I’m not like, I, I, I.

[00:19:29] Jeff: like it’s almost like a desperate feeling like, fuck no,

[00:19:32] Christina: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, absolutely. Cuz it’s one of those things like, okay, we did all the right things and it didn’t matter. So what was the point? You know, which, which is, is terrible, but it, but I, but I have, I think that I’m not alone in that and I don’t think it’s like a, I don’t think it’s a left right thing.

[00:19:47] I think that it’s just a, as you said, it’s a desperation thing where people are just like, no, we, we gave up a lot and the consequences and the outcomes were still really terrible. Would they have been worse? [00:20:00] Probably, but, but you know, like, you know what I mean? Like, like it’s one of those things where it’s like, if you don’t do it completely, then it it’s still, you still like, let you still let things in.

[00:20:13] It’s just, I don’t know.

[00:20:15] Jeff: Based on like how you remember the pandemic unfolding, where on the timeline, do you put the point where, where you were at, what you just described, which is like, we can do all we want, but because you know, this percentage of people aren’t doing anything, you’re feeling like it doesn’t matter.

[00:20:31] Christina: Um, I would say, I would say like November, December

[00:20:34] Jeff: Mm-hmm

[00:20:35] Christina: of this year, 20 21, 20

[00:20:37] Jeff: 21. Oh yeah. Got it. So, so, so like you got things starts in March of 2020,

[00:20:43] Christina: Yeah,

[00:20:44] Jeff: and then you’re saying like all the way up until about November, December 20, 21, like you, you were you personally just like, okay, I get it. I get it. But you were slowly that was eroding and then, and really eroding in December.

[00:20:55] Christina: Yeah, yeah.

[00:20:56] Jeff: get that. I get that. I

[00:20:58] Christina: because at that point, yeah, we, you know, [00:21:00] we were trying, we had vaccinations and we had people who were then choosing not to get vaccinated and you had, you know, sickness still coming and you had all these variants and you had all this other stuff. And at this point I was just kinda like, okay, so we didn’t fix anything.

[00:21:14] We, we, we did all this and it didn’t solve anything and it didn’t stop anything. And there’s still variants that are happening. And now you have people who are refusing to get vaccinated and, and are refusing to celebrate these good things that have happened. So what are we? And we don’t have enough vaccines for certain parts of the world.

[00:21:31] And we still have, you know, these, these conflicting kind of strategies and this and that. So like what, what was this for? You know, like, yeah. I, I would say that, that I, I was all up for it until like November, December, and then I was just kind of like, all right. I will obviously respect whatever the guidelines are and I will respect other personal policies in the individual that I’m friends with or am around, wants to follow.

[00:21:57] But for me personally, I’m done [00:22:00] pretending, like I can continue to have my life in stasis because, um, the, the, the consequences and the risks don’t match anymore. Like, like my, my, my personal risk assessment is now at the point where I’m like, I, I can’t like for my own mental health. And also just for what I would look at as the way I was looking at things like logically not to say that my view is accurate for everyone.

[00:22:21] Else’s was just kind of like, this is, this is no longer logical. This is now outta the point where it is. It is, you know, like taking all these precautions and doing all this stuff, isn’t actually stopping anything. And then it would also get to the point where, like in Seattle, we would have certain things where you would have to show your, your vaccination certificate to eat at a restaurant, which is fine.

[00:22:43] And, but they would be like, okay, you have to wear a mask until you get to the table, then you can take your mask off.

[00:22:49] Jeff: and then everybody’s got their masks off for the next two hours as they talk loudly and laugh and

[00:22:53] Christina: Well, and, and that was, and that was acceptable. Like, it wasn’t even a thing. Like they would say, oh, put your mask on when you’re not eating or drinking that [00:23:00] wasn’t, it. It was like, you have to wear the mask while you walk from the hostess, stand to the table and then it can come off.

[00:23:07] And so I’m sorry, but that’s performative and stupid. Like either the mask works or it doesn’t, and in many cases, the cloth masks don’t work. So like, what’s, you’ve already seen that I’m vaccinated. So what’s the point, right?

[00:23:22] Jeff: And like two, two things at that period that were happening. One, we were starting to realize, oh, this cloth mask thing, we are not gonna continue that everyone gets in, you know, an N 95 or whatever, but also around that November, December 21 time, that’s when I remember realizing when I was in businesses in Minneapolis and half the people were masked, the people who masked were almost definitely the people who were vaccinated.

[00:23:51] Right. Cause those were the people that were willing to be like, yeah, no, I’ll do this. I’ll do this both because it’s needed and it’s symbolic. Right? Like, and, and that was, I [00:24:00] remember at that moment just being like, oh my God, this is crazy.

[00:24:03] Christina: Exactly. And, and I guess for me as like, I kind of lost the symbolism aspect, I was like, look, I’ll do again. I’ll do whatever the guidelines tell me to do. Um, and I’ll do whatever people I’m around want to do to be comfortable. And I’m okay with that. What I’m not gonna do is just for symbolism sake. And also it’s absolutely stupid to be like, it’s okay in this five foot area, like you ha are required to have a mask, but in this five foot area, you don’t like.

[00:24:34] Jeff: Yeah, it’s dizzying.

[00:24:35] Christina: It it’s stupid. It’s absolutely stupid. At that point, it just becomes like bureaucracy. And so that, that, that to me was that those are things, that many things that broke me over the pandemic, but we’ve been talking too much about this. I, I apologize. You have a, you have a big list of questions of topic, a topic list.

[00:24:51] You said you have some questions for me. So I would love to hear your questions.

[00:24:56] Jeff: They’re just questions that I’ve meant to ask you from the first time I was [00:25:00] on the podcast. So one is. Back in the day you had, uh, uh, you were writing a blog for USA today, coaching American idol participants. And I want to hear how that came about and anything that is of note about that experience.

[00:25:19] It’s true. Right?

[00:25:20] Christina: it? No, that’s 100% true. That was my first professional writing experience. I was in college and

[00:25:25] Jeff: were in college. How

[00:25:26] Christina: I was in college. Uh, I was like 22, 23.

[00:25:29] Jeff: Okay, how did you get it?

[00:25:31] Christina: Uh, I was a block comment.

[00:25:33] Jeff: Nice on the blog.

[00:25:35] Christina: On the blog. So, so the, the, then music editor at, uh, USA today, he had his music blog and he had an American idol blog. And I used to watch American idol with my parents actually, like it was like kind of our show.

[00:25:47] We always enjoyed watching it. And you know, this was back when it was the number one show on television. So this is back when it was like, you know, it’s peak. And I would comment kind of on like my opinions of the music industry and of the [00:26:00] contestants and how things were going. But I would also comment on his general music blog and he liked my commentary and he thought I was a good writer and thought I was funny and reached out to me and said, we’re putting together a panel of coaches that will, there will be a column in the paper, you know, every whatever day it was, where they’ll be giving advice to the contestants.

[00:26:20] And, um, and then it’ll be a longer version that’ll run online. And would you like to do this. I was like, I was like, yeah, are you kidding me? That’d be amazing. So I was in the paper every week and like, my photo was, was there and then a longer version was online. And, um, I got, I got paid $1,500, uh, which was not a lot of money, but I, I thought it was

[00:26:41] Jeff: what? For each column.

[00:26:42] Christina: no period

[00:26:43] Jeff: Okay. Got it. You got 1500. How long did you do it?

[00:26:47] Christina: whatever the length that the season was.

[00:26:48] So like 12 weeks, I guess.

[00:26:49] Jeff: Okay, got it. Yep.

[00:26:51] Christina: And, uh, so not a lot of money, but I’d never done anything, you know, professionally before. And, uh, I bought a black MacBook with it that I named Simon because Simon [00:27:00] cow wears a black t-shirt, you know, and, and American idol and inadvertently paid for, you know, my career and no one, it was amazing.

[00:27:06] Um, what was so great about it is that gave me the confidence then to. So blogging jobs, which then led to my professional career, because that gave me the confidence to say, oh, well, I’m, if I was good enough to write here, you know, about something that I am not qualified really, to comment on the same way that, you know, cuz it was, it was some actual industry professionals.

[00:27:26] And then me who was just like the fan, um, then, then like, okay then clearly my writing is good enough that I could, I could write, you know, for a blog that pays me $10 a post. Um, and, and which then led to led to a much more lucrative career. Yeah. But no, it all came from blog comments. It’s, it’s one of those stories.

[00:27:46] I still can’t believe that that happened because even in 2007, when that happened, that was not a common. Thing like that, that seemed like that was like a, a fantasy of someone like being like, [00:28:00] you know, somebody being like literally like, you know, lifted from the blog comments and, and lifted up into, you know, like, you know, a stardom and, and wasn’t stardom, but it was definitely, um, I remember being in a class, I was taking this journalism class and the teacher was terrible and she sucked and she hated me.

[00:28:18] And she, um, cause I would ask questions about like, what about blogging? What about, you know, digital media, new media as they’re calling it then. And she was really dismissive of it. She was really dismissive of it. And so I was then immediately dismissive of her. Cause I was like, whatever, and I wasn’t gonna tell her, well, you know, I got a job writing because I blog commentary.

[00:28:38] Like, didn’t, didn’t say that. But one day somebody in the class had a USA today and they saw my photo. And then Christina, is this you? I was like, yeah. And they’re like, oh my God, Christina’s in the paper. And then, you know, I had to explain, yeah, I have a, a weekly, you know, thing that comes out and the teacher, she was mad.

[00:28:54] She was like, how did you get this? And I was like, yeah, I commented on the music. Editor’s blogs. [00:29:00] And, and he liked me. And she was like, well, you know, don’t expect, she basically was like, don’t expect this to turn into anything.

[00:29:06] Jeff: Oh, my

[00:29:06] Christina: And,

[00:29:07] Jeff: like a bad high school

[00:29:08] Christina: it really does. Right. And this is college completely, you know, she was just so completely foreign to her.

[00:29:13] And I was just kind of like, and I didn’t argue, I wasn’t gonna say anything cuz in my mind I was already like lady, if I want this as a career. And I, and I thought that I kind of did at that point, I was like, I’m going to be successful. Like.

[00:29:25] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:29:26] Christina: You know, like, fuck you, you know what I mean? But, but it, but, but it, it, it, it was like, it was, it, it was even then though it was unbelievable that it happened, so, yeah, that’s it’s um, yeah,

[00:29:40] Jeff: Were you, um, were you the, were you commenting on lots of different blogs or was it mostly that one?

[00:29:46] Christina: it was, it was, I mean, I commented both, both of his music, blogs. I would come on other blogs too, though. Like I had, you know, I would comment on, on sites that I like to read. Like I was a Gawker commenter back when you had to audition to, to, uh, be in the goer comments

[00:29:59] Jeff: that’s [00:30:00] right. What, what did that, what did that actually, uh, what was that about? How, how did you have to do that?

[00:30:05] Christina: oh, they would just basically choose that you were funny enough and in that regard or smart enough, and in that regard, I was smarter. I knew that I was like, I might not be witty enough for Gawker. This is like 2004, maybe. Right. So this was a couple years before the, the idle thing happened, but I, I was, I was like, mm, I might not be good enough to stand Toto toe with the best goer commenters, cuz at the time, like at that era, the comments on go were almost as good as the site itself.

[00:30:35] And like that was the like media and, and kind of, you know, like, like a New York kind of gossip and culture and like, you know, like that, that was like the blog. Right. But won, get which they owned then had a much more liberal policy in terms of approving commenters. So I got approved to be a won, get commenter, which then in turn made me a Gawker commenter.

[00:30:57] Jeff: And who was, who was editing? Won get at that [00:31:00] time

[00:31:00] Christina: Anna Marie Cox.

[00:31:01] Jeff: it was Anne Marie. Was it always Anna Marie Cox.

[00:31:03] Christina: No, she was the original, then I think she got hired away by time or someone. And then other people took over and then eventually like Nick DIDNT sold, won, get to someone else. And then I think won get still exists. But I think they’d like are independent now, but yeah. So when it was the honorary Cox era, I was a, a, I basically like did an in run around the system and I was like, okay, if I’m a prude as a won, get commenter, then I can comment on Gawker.

[00:31:31] Um, and, and then that, like, you know, I’m sure I also commented on in gadget and Gizmoto and things like that. But like Gawker was like the apex, because, you know, they like you had to audition. Like they, they would even do this thing back. Such a different time in, in internet things, because this before, like the spam took over the, the comments and, and everything like where they would like have like comments of the week, but they would also have this thing where they would basically like put things up for vote, be like, should we ban this commenter or not?

[00:31:58] And like the people like [00:32:00] would, would, you know, kind of comment, like based on like, like bad comments of the weekly, it was, it was brutal, but it was funny and it was such a completely different time than now. It’s so funny to think back about, um, one of the saddest things. That happened when they did the Gawker archive, when Gawker was went bankrupt and, and then Univision for legal reasons, couldn’t keep the site.

[00:32:20] Um, the archive team did archive it and, and, um, but honestly also the most of that work happened behind the scenes from, from the, um, engineers who worked at, at, uh, goer media group who like went through the process of, of archiving the old site. But when they did that, the comments for most, for most of the blogs were not archived because of the, the JavaScript and other stuff.

[00:32:41] They just didn’t have time. And so the, the comments which were in many cases, so much a part of the whole thing don’t exist. Um, there are some things like if you go far, far, far back on the way back machine, you might see some things, but just because of how JavaScript for commenting server side stuff would work, cuz it was usually, you know, like, like [00:33:00] Ken J was its own platform.

[00:33:02] You know, the, the way that it would usually maybe be stored on another server or whatnot, like it’s not, they don’t come up. So it’s one of those things where, um, like there’s this, this amazing part of history that is just sort of gone. Um, and, uh, and, and it’s, it’s sad. Yeah.

[00:33:19] Jeff: Right man. I, you know, I don’t think I’ve thought enough about the loss of comments when you also, you know, I often, I mean, selfishly so much work I’ve done has been lost because of media

[00:33:33] Christina: going under mm-hmm

[00:33:34] Jeff: yeah. Going under, or just doing a, a, you know, redesign in a relaunch and not thinking through the most basic things about what would happen to the archives.

[00:33:45] Um, but I admit that I hadn’t thought about the fact that you’ve also lost all those comments, um, which is a big deal,

[00:33:53] Christina: No, it is a big deal. Cause that was a huge part of how communication happened, like pre Twitter and Facebook and, and those types of [00:34:00] things. Like you’re, you’re, you’re back and forth. Like were your comment sections and, and a lot of people built relationships and friendships and things there

[00:34:07] Jeff: Yeah. In the comment sections, right? Like you would on Twitter in the early days of Twitter, to

[00:34:12] Christina: 100%. No, exactly. Right. I mean, and I think that’s one of the reasons why most organizations have gotten rid of comments is they’re like, oh, people will just use Facebook or Twitter or, you know, Instagram or whatever. Um, and also because moderating them becomes difficult, you know, not just for spam, but, you know, as things got bigger and bigger, like you would have more polarizing things, but like, yeah, like I, I owe my blog career to being a blog commenter and I definitely was always somebody who would, would post in comments.

[00:34:41] Like I’m always writing letters to the editor when I was like nine years old though.

[00:34:45] Jeff: Who were you? What about, what about what?

[00:34:47] Christina: Oh, so I’ll never forget this because I got a letter back. Um, they were sort of appreciative, but they weren