288: To Multiverse or Not

288: To Multiverse or Not

[00:00:00] Jeff: Welcome to overtired. Uh, I am one of many co-hosts uh, Jeff sevens. Gunzel also here with Christina Warren. Hi, Christina.

[00:00:12] Christina: Hello. Welcome. I’m happy to be back.

[00:00:15] Jeff: Good. Glad to have you back. Good. Glad you’re happy. Um, Brett, good to have you back as well. And uh, and Victor, a credit Jr. Let’s be careful to distinguish a wonderful guest. Welcome.

[00:00:28] Victor: Thank you. Welcome. Hi.

[00:00:32] Jeff: Hello? All those things. Well, we’ve all been podcasting without recording for the last like 30 minutes. Um, some good pre-show material. Good feeling warmed up everybody.

[00:00:42] Christina: Yep. Dylan.

[00:00:44] Jeff: Excellent.

[00:00:44] Brett: so Christina was a little bit late. She missed like a lot of our pre-show conversation cause she had things going on, but remind me where you were last week, Christine.

[00:00:54] Christina: I was in Atlanta at render ATL, which is a JavaScript conference, but it was also [00:01:00] like, frankly, it was one of the cooler tech events I’ve been to because, um, you know, most tech conferences, um, it’s like a bunch of white dudes or like white people in general. Yeah. Like me being white, I was like a minority.

[00:01:13] It was, it was, uh, because, uh, it is the Atlanta tech community, but it was kind of created by them and not by like the white people in the suburbs of the Atlanta tech community. So it was, it was a bunch of, of, of, um, black and people of color and people who have like different backgrounds. Um, it was a lot of young people.

[00:01:29] It was really, really, it was a really great event. It was really fun.

[00:01:32] Brett: Nice.

[00:01:33] Jeff: awesome.

[00:01:34] Victor: Atlanta has a great tech scene, man. Oh my gosh.

[00:01:37] Christina: They do they do, but what was interesting like this was, it took place downtown and a lot of the conferences, like I haven’t been to a conference that was downtown since 2008. Like most of them have been in the suburbs. Like they make you get a cop or something. And this was actually like downtown, which was really great.

[00:01:55] Brett: Speaking of

[00:01:56] Jeff: a wonderful, wonderful city. Go ahead bro.

[00:01:59] Brett: Um, [00:02:00] so max stock is under pretty severe limitations this year, uh, because of their offering, uh, distance, socially distant seating to people, uh, which means they can only sell so many tickets and technically they are sold out already. Um, I am working, uh, I’m waiting. Uh, Mike is going to get back to me.

[00:02:23] He’s processing, whatever refunds are waiting right now, uh, in any tickets to become available, he’s gonna, he’s gonna let me. Uh, invite, you know, specific people. We want Victor to come. Uh,

[00:02:38] Victor: I’m okay with waiting in line, like a normal human being, as opposed to, you know, some big shot, uh, wheel or whatever the hell. Uh, but I will, I will say this at the very least, this would give me an excuse to send a robot in my stead, uh, and

[00:02:51] Christina: yeah, you can have you get up. I was going to say you did the telepresence thing. That’d be

[00:02:55] Victor: Right. Uh, there’s a bunch of open source, like robot dogs on the market. And [00:03:00] so, you know, maybe I’ll send like a fleet of spider robots to

[00:03:04] Jeff: about this one? That’s out there. It looks like a, a, it looks like a, uh, oh, what’s the scooter. You ride two wheels.

[00:03:12] Brett: uh,

[00:03:12] Jeff: God, Joe blue.

[00:03:13] Victor: Oh yeah, yeah.

[00:03:14] Jeff: like a segway holds a stick on a phone. What’s the deal. Anybody got that?

[00:03:19] Christina: I’ve seen that before. Um, we, we actually had one of those, uh, fricking Lance, because Lance would have, obviously to this, since you left off guy used to work with who’s a crazy, and he does these things and it’s, it’s, it’s very charming, but he had one of those at the Ted conference. And so he was in the office wa walking around, but he was at the Ted conference and then he was in our office on one of the segway things, controlling it, it was very bizarre that he would just like walk up to us.

[00:03:44] Like he would like walked behind my desk and I’d be like, like really, really?

[00:03:49] It

[00:03:49] Brett: modern family did a whole bit on that were Phil was on one of those telepresence robots. It

[00:03:54] Christina: Yeah, they did. And I don’t remember if ours was before or after. It was probably after, but it, but [00:04:00] it was around the same time. It was definitely, yeah, it was one of those things that was very funny.

[00:04:03] Brett: For the record, max SOC does have a streaming. They, they, they will be live streaming and you can buy a streaming pass if you, uh, if you don’t feel like heading out to the outskirts of Chicago, um, I shouldn’t even say it’s the outskirts of Chicago. It’s like, I think 45 minutes outside of Chicago. Um,

[00:04:21] Victor: thing is I want to go to Chicago. So if y’all want to go meet up in Chicago afterwards, I’m also down for that, you know, Sharday lives up there.

[00:04:29] Christina: Yeah, actually, I was going to say, cause I’ve been, I needed to email Mike back and I never did because I’m terrible at email. And so I’m probably not gonna be able to go, although I would love to go, but Victor, if I’m down to go to Chicago and then watch remotely, and then if anybody wants to come to Chicago and like do a meet up or something, I’m totally game for that.

[00:04:45] Brett: Yeah, we could

[00:04:46] Christina: love to get to max. Yeah. I’d love to be at max dock proper, but like Victor, I don’t want to like skip lines or anything. I don’t want to

[00:04:52] Brett: come on. Take advantage of knowing.

[00:04:56] Christina: I mean, okay, fair. I will. If it’s an opportunity, if you

[00:04:59] Victor: do

[00:04:59] Christina: it out, I will [00:05:00] absolutely go and do it, but I would also like to go to Chicago and meet up with people there.

[00:05:04] I’d love to see Chardi that’d be cool.

[00:05:05] Brett: Yeah. And Dan Peterson lives in Chicago,

[00:05:08] Christina: Oh yeah. Dan

[00:05:09] Brett: Dan Peterson, who just got married. Congratulations, Stan. I don’t know if he listens to this

[00:05:13] Christina: he probably doesn’t but congrats to Dan Peterson. We, we, we, uh, we’re very happy for you. Muscles have very happy for you.

[00:05:19] Brett: Uh, Jeff you’ve probably never met Dan. He is the, uh, lead designer for one password

[00:05:25] Jeff: Oh, got it. Got it. Got it.

[00:05:27] Brett: and he’s, he’s an old friend and a really amazing, amazing guy. What’s that?

[00:05:34] Jeff: And an old employer of yours. Right?

[00:05:35] Brett: Uh, he, he was a coworker of mine. Yes.

[00:05:39] Jeff: Uh, nice.

[00:05:40] Brett: not saying that my R my skill set was equal to his, but we were both under the employee of agile. So, uh, should we, should we have a mental health corner?

[00:05:53] Do you guys feel you’re filling up for a mental health corner

[00:05:57] Christina: Definitely.

[00:05:57] Jeff: My

[00:05:57] Brett: who wants to start? [00:06:00]

[00:06:01] Victor: I’ll start since I’m, you know, the gas

[00:06:03] Brett: awesome.

[00:06:04] Christina: please.

[00:06:05] Victor: I’ll skip the line. This one-time.

[00:06:07] Jeff: Hey.

[00:06:08] Victor: Right. I’ll uh, uh, so I’ve been doing two things because I suck at habits and, you know, consistency. Um, and about a year ago I started taking some meds for ADHD. Um, and that’s, you know, it’s been all right or whatever, but there’s still that whole issue of just like, you know, making time for certain things or whatever.

[00:06:26] Uh, so, and I know we’re going to talk about favorite apps later. These are not favorite apps. These are apps that I suffer through. Um, they’re, they’re actually not very good at all, uh, in many ways, but they’re also good in other ways. So I do use them, uh, nuMe and, uh, fabulous is the other one. So fabulous.co.

[00:06:43] If you go there, it’s really interesting. They’ve got like a, an art style. That’s probably not for everybody. Um, and there’s way too much going on, but what’s interesting is just the building of habits. How you start with one thing, like drink water as you wait, when you wake up. Not as you wait, [00:07:00] that’d be interesting.

[00:07:01] Uh, when you wait. Drink some water, you do that three days in a row, and then you add another habit, like, you know, meditate or write in your journal or something like that. So that’s pretty cool. Um, but yeah, so that’s that, that has helped my mental health and I’m not getting paid by any of these people to do any of this stuff, just so you know, uh, you know, uh, but it’s, it’s really helped my mental health because it reminds me to do some of the stuff that keeps me healthy through the day.

[00:07:28] Um, and mostly like meditate and write in my journal. So I don’t fall victim to like time blindness, uh, primarily, yeah.

[00:07:36] Jeff: Timeline necessary.

[00:07:38] Brett: uh,

[00:07:38] Christina: yeah,

[00:07:39] Brett: what ADHD meds are you on? Vector.

[00:07:42] Victor: Uh, Adderall like five milligrams or something like super light, you know, I, I just, I don’t need to drink 12 cups of coffee a day.

[00:07:50] Brett: I, uh, I asked for an increase in my dosage of Vyvanse and my, uh, doctor said, no, I’d rather that you found a [00:08:00] therapist. And so I’m still working to find the right therapist. Um,

[00:08:06] Victor: good therapy too. Now I’ve got to, I’ve got a good therapist. That’s doing the integrated family systems, uh, stuff. So if you’ve never done that, it’s it’s really, really good. Um,

[00:08:15] Brett: do you need a family for that?

[00:08:17] Victor: Nope. The family’s all up in here.

[00:08:19] Brett: Oh, all right.

[00:08:21] Victor: Kelly’s pieces. The theory is that you got all these pieces that have broken off.

[00:08:24] I mean, has anybody watched moon night? Okay. So dissociative disorders, like the far end of the spectrum of this, the, the lighter end is like, you know, when you’ve got a craving or when you feel sad, you eat your feelings. Well, somethings, you know, telling you do this and you’ll feel better, it’s trying to help you.

[00:08:41] Uh, and so what you do is you identify that and then you kind of work with it, you know, in certain ways or whatever you may say, Hey, I’m a grownup now. It’s okay. You can call them down. Uh, and you know, but you, you have to do that pretty repeatedly. Uh, and I, you know, explore stuff and whatever. So yeah, it’s an, it’s a new ish kind of therapy.

[00:08:58] Brett: I will, I will keep [00:09:00] my eye open for.

[00:09:00] Jeff: It’s that idea that you without overthinking or over-analyzing you, you kind of, you recognize that there’s a part of you, you have many parts and that there’s a part of you that needs this thing for some reason to be calm. And what you just said is what was so striking to me about it, which is then you’re kind of gone.

[00:09:21] Hey, okay, cool. Yeah, no, that’s real. I need that. I need did that. Do I still need it? Right. Like I still need this thing to protect me in this way right now. I always really loved, I don’t, I’m not, uh, my therapy is not family systems, so my father-in-law who I happen to, like, which I know is rare in, uh, the world of in-laws, uh, is deep into that, that modality of therapy.

[00:09:44] And I just love hearing about it and thinking about it. So that’s cool. Awesome. I can just keep her I’ll just roll. I don’t have a lot to say I have something really one really wonderful change in my [00:10:00] life is that having gotten, um, steroid shot in my back, um, that was really badly needed. I wasn’t able to walk even a block without everything seizing up.

[00:10:10] Um, my wife and I take evening walks again, and that is great for me. And that is great for us. And actually you mentioned Victor time blindness. Um, I realized how important, uh, connecting like that. In that kind of like we used to call in the Trump era is we, we took walks morning and night and call them worry, walks.

[00:10:30] Cause like, that was like the best place to, to talk about all of the things happening in the world. And you know, it really helped you to metabolize it, you know, rather than just like sitting in a room and then the conversation’s over and you’re still sitting in the room. It’s like, it’s like, you’re leaving every piece behind you as you go.

[00:10:44] Right. Um, and, and it became such a marker of time for me. And so I’ve, I’ve noticed even just in the last few days, um, that like I have a much stronger sense of time and, and my day and all of those things, and that’s been [00:11:00] really great.

[00:11:00] Brett: I think that I think that negative discussion while walking thing kind of works for me and Al um, I, I think it’s safest to bring up scary, especially political topics while we’re walking, probably for the same reasons you just described. Um, I tend to go to the scary side of things very quickly. Um, I’m like, well, okay, the world is over.

[00:11:27] Cause this is happening and it doesn’t affect me. Like, I, I can think those things and then just move on. Um, but L cannot, uh, so it has to be like tempered and we definitely could not have those conversations sitting in the living room. So yeah, I think there’s something to that idea of like, kind of keeping moving while having those negative conversations.

[00:11:53] Jeff: give it to the air, you know, it’s kinda like why it’s so nice to sit for me to sit by waves. You just feel like, I [00:12:00] feel like the waves are doing the work for me. I don’t have to be chaotic. They’re chaotic. And they’re just kind of going, let us do this.

[00:12:08] Brett: All right, Christina, you are.

[00:12:11] Christina: Uh, I’ll go, um, yeah, not a ton to update on. Uh, there is some stuff going on in my mental health that I’m not really, it’s not my place to talk about it. So, but, but is hopefully will lead to some, some good things related to my mental health. So it’s someone else’s mental health, but it’s not mine, but it’ll hopefully have some, some good impact on me if things are dealt with.

[00:12:30] But, uh, yeah, no, I’ve been, um, you know, I was out of town for like a week basically because I was in San Diego and then I was home for 12 hours, 10 hours, something like that. And then I was in Atlanta, um, for a conference, um, not with the family, which was nice. I did see the baby for my nephew for a night, but it was, I, I was there for the conference and, um, it was really nice to meet my coworkers in person.

[00:12:53] And it was really nice to, um, Have that kind of time. And, and I, I find that that [00:13:00] sort of thing really energizes me and, and really helps with a lot of my other mental health, like being around people actually really helps my mental health. And so I’m looking forward to continuing to do more of that.

[00:13:12] Brett: Yeah.

[00:13:12] Jeff: Um,

[00:13:15] Brett: Okay.

[00:13:15] Victor: extrovert or an extroverted.

[00:13:18] Christina: I’m not sure because I definitely like my alone time and I definitely like to be able to, sometimes I can be, it can be too much and I just need time to kind of recharge. But in general, I think that I’m like an extrovert introvert, if that makes sense. They, because I really do feed off of other people.

[00:13:34] So yeah.

[00:13:36] Brett: you have a time limit when you’re, when you’re with other people, do you continually gain energy or do you hit a point where you’re like, okay, now I need to go.

[00:13:47] Christina: Um, it depends, right. Like, cause okay. And it also depends on what the thing is. I could be. Okay. So San Diego is a great example because, um, I got there and I was by myself for a night, but then, um, I had got a really [00:14:00] big hotel room. I got a suite and my friend Ray stayed with me. And so it was like a, it was like 800 square feet.

[00:14:05] Right. So it was this massive, you know, huge like, like sweet and whatnot. But Ray and I were basically together the whole weekend. And then we were also at the wedding with, for our friend Chrissa and there were other things and I didn’t feel like, you know, Put upon, you know what I mean? But if I’m at a conference, but no, but you know, but if I’m at a conference for instance, and I have to be on and that’s a little bit different than just being yourself and I’ve got to be like on and smiling and I’m giving talks and I’m also answering customer questions.

[00:14:37] I mean, doing other things, I would say that like 14 hours is probably my limit and then I

[00:14:41] Brett: Oh, Jesus.

[00:14:42] Christina: go home and recharge and, and, and I need, again, I need to, I need to go home and recharge. And sometimes though you can’t, because sometimes I immediately, after the conference, you didn’t have to go to the parties and all that stuff.

[00:14:54] But usually there is time where I’m like, okay, like if I w if I would do a day of talks and [00:15:00] booth duty, I would usually be like, okay, I’m going to try to find some time where, like me and maybe a colleague can just like chill in the hotel and order out, or the next day I need to not be at the conference and I need to walk around and I need to just like, re like decompress, because I I’ve been on like too long, if that makes.

[00:15:18] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Like if it’s one person or even two people that I get along with. In a comfortable way and I don’t have to be like on, um, I can, uh, yeah, I don’t have a time limit on that, but like a conference environment. Uh, I need a break every couple hours, even if it’s just going in like closing a bathroom stall for five minutes, uh, just I need the break, but going from a conference floor straight to a party, I could not do.

[00:15:50] I will always find an excuse to go back to the hotel room. Give me half an hour by myself, and then maybe I can go to a party.

[00:15:59] Christina: [00:16:00] Yeah. And in many times I would probably like to do that, but I’m not always in a position to do that. And I would say that when I was younger, I was definitely more of like an introvert extrovert. And I definitely liked my alone time more. And I was always happy to play by myself. I didn’t mind playing with other people, but I was always happy to play with, by myself as I’ve gotten older.

[00:16:17] And as I’ve had to be. In more extroverted situations, I’ve gotten, it’s become easier. And it’s also become a thing that does, to a certain extent, like boosts me up and I can have a really good time. But yeah, there is a certain point when I’m just done and I’m like, okay. As much as I like being around people, I’ve got to, I’ve got to go and be by myself and just like watch TV, mindlessly or something.

[00:16:42] And just like sit because it’s just, it’s just too much.

[00:16:45] Brett: Yeah,

[00:16:45] Jeff: As my late grandmother was.

[00:16:47] Brett: both going on.

[00:16:48] Jeff: My league ground weather would say enough is enough.

[00:16:54] Brett: Um, yeah. Cool. So I don’t, I don’t actually have much to report [00:17:00] either. Um, Ben getting shit done at work. I kind of next week, I I’ll be starting on a big publishing automation project for work. Um, and I kind of gave myself permission this week to, uh, be a little slower with getting things done. Just kind of in preparation for the hours that that’s going to take.

[00:17:27] Um, I’ve gotten away with it too. I have a, a great setup that I shouldn’t say out loud, but basically I work for multiple teams and every one of those teams is convinced that I’m busy with another one of those teams. So on a week where I really need some breathing space, I can just pretend. In any given meeting, like never do all three managers show up for the same meeting.

[00:17:57] So I can always, I I’m like a kid [00:18:00] with divorced parents that can like play the parents against each other. Um, and, and that on, on weeks like this where I really, I need the space, um, I, I explain that I’m a, I’m a bad person, but I make up for it. I get my shit done. Um, I get everything done, but, uh, I also, we we’ve been taking walks still, uh, out in Wisconsin wetlands and I have to make a retraction.

[00:18:30] Jeff, you asked me if there were bugs on our property or on our walks and, uh, L listened to the episode and, and I had to answer to them the affirmative and elderly. There are no bugs anywhere. Any none of these places have bugs. And I realized, I don’t know what a bug is. So we looked it up. I looked at pictures and yeah, [00:19:00] no bugs look magical and I do not have a bug.

[00:19:12] I have a swamp. I have a marsh at best. I do not have a bog.

[00:19:17] Jeff: I appreciate your honesty.

[00:19:20] Christina: I didn’t know. I didn’t know where the bog was until right now. And I’m looking it up and I’m like, oh, okay. And I’ll be honest with you. Some of them I think, do look magical, but if I were just to like, be like, at least the first picture in Wikipedia. Okay. Some of these other ones are magical, but the first picture in Wikipedia I’m like, this is a fucking swamp.

[00:19:39] Jeff: It doesn’t sound good.

[00:19:41] Brett: Right. What, what, like my, my, all the knowledge I had of a bog was from the bygone 20 song, the bog, which does not. Uh, terribly pretty picture. It doesn’t paint much of a picture at all. It’s just industrial music, but

[00:19:58] Jeff: Could be the fault of the [00:20:00] painter.

[00:20:00] Christina: I

[00:20:00] Brett: guess I always assumed eyes. I just always assumed it was like a very muddy place.

[00:20:07] Victor: Is there a genre of music that just sings Wikipedia lyrics or radio PTO work entries.

[00:20:13] Jeff: not a bad idea.

[00:20:14] Brett: to

[00:20:15] Christina: Ah, okay. New million dollar idea.

[00:20:19] Brett: auto

[00:20:20] Victor: of those AI. And I get one of those AI music composers and set it to Wikipedia.

[00:20:25] Jeff: Yup. Yup. We can do that. Be a long song.

[00:20:30] Brett: So, uh, Jeff, you, you threw a topic on our list that says fake it until you barely make it. I’m curious.

[00:20:37] Jeff: Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. So, um, In my professional life, I have had the most fake it till you barely make it a kind of weak ever. And it wasn’t unintentional. It’s like partly, uh, partly a way that I know I grow, but I am so, so I, you know, for [00:21:00] 25 years I was a journalist and I’ve been a, what I call an investigative researcher, um, for the last several years, which is basically using that toolbox, but using it for projects other than journalism.

[00:21:14] And we’ve talked on this show about my, uh, juvenile justice work, um, around, uh, and, and my research there and, and how I ended up hiring Brett to both help with workflows, but also with sort of a tool that helps to sort of process audio, um, interviews and all this stuff. Like I know my toolbox and my skillset super, super well, and I decided to step outside of it.

[00:21:40] Adequate support. And, and specifically, so I, I’m a member owner of a research and evaluation firm. It’s a co uh, collaboratively owned, uh, firm. And we work strictly with social justice organizations doing traditional evaluation work. I do sort of investigative journalism work. [00:22:00] Um, and it occurred to me. I love working with data.

[00:22:03] I love thinking about data. I love thinking about data problems. Um, and I’m not a programmer, but I’m certainly comfortable in many programming environments until, you know, I have to really drill down. Um, and the, the sort of model that we’re piloting with one organization here in Minneapolis is like, um, what if you had sort of a data chaplaincy service where like you had a handful of people who were really good with data, one was good with data integrity.

[00:22:32] One was good with. Working with data, uh, you know, processing data, wrangling data. Another one maybe is more like front end. Right. Um, and you could go to, to small nonprofits who, who have data, uh, that they don’t really know how to leverage or have data that doesn’t have integrity, because who’s had the time to think about how you gather the data.

[00:22:54] You always just rushing to try to like, you know, meet this funding, this funders deadline or another. [00:23:00] Um, and so we’re piloting this idea of sort of data chaplaincy and the people we’re piloting. Um, mainly just need help, uh, sort of freeing data from a CRM. They’re using these a HubSpot, uh, CRM, which has a pretty good API.

[00:23:17] Um, and, but inside of it, partly because of the way they constructed their own database. And partly because they’re using it for something that isn’t really isn’t really meant for. Um, but their organization is saying you’ve got to use this, right. We realized that a solution would be to just really dive into the API, liberate their data and, and make it so that it’s really flexible and that they can do all sorts of things with it that they aren’t able to do inside of the CRM.

[00:23:43] And, and that’s all great. Everything’s going fine. I’ve got, uh, you know, I’ve I created a, you know, sort of a business plan for them. I. Piloting. So like, they’re, they’re very patiently kind of giving me feedback on what helps, what does it mostly, it just feels like the reason I joke it’s data chaplaincy [00:24:00] is because people in nonprofits, you start talking to them about helping them with their data.

[00:24:04] And it’s like, it’s like you’re in there holding their hand saying, I know it hurts, you know, like, um, cause everyone suffers through that a little bit, but I got into a situation where I needed to kind of do a little show and tell which mostly just involved me diving into the API. Um, and that was all fine for a while.

[00:24:26] And then I got to the point where I hit my own sort of like, okay, shit. Like I’ve, I’ve reached what I know how to do with this Python wrapper. I’ve reached what I know how to do by just like jumping out of the wrapper and just doing curl requests. I’ve reached what I can do by a messaging Brett at 6:00 PM, uh, in a panic.

[00:24:43] And I have a meeting tomorrow, which was today and I went into that meeting. I haven’t had this experience in. I don’t know if I’ve ever had this experience in my professional life, because I’ve always stuck really well within my ability to at least bullshit. Um, you know, like if [00:25:00] you’ve got a skill set, right.

[00:25:01] You know, what it takes to sort of get through a meeting that you weren’t actually ready for. Right. Um, and in this case I had to really just run up against the deadline, realizing, like I don’t have what I told them. I needed to give them and, uh, and the barely made it thing. That’s beautiful is I took the, uh, who, not how approach and just decided like, just before I got in the meeting, I’m like, I’m hiring somebody to finish this.

[00:25:27] Cause like, I, you know, this is a pad use of the money. It’s not coming out of their budget. Part of our sort of pilot program is that we actually go to the people who fund these people and say, you pay us for this. Don’t take it out of their money. You pay us for this. Cause you pay them for other work and we can help make it so that they can do that work better.

[00:25:46] Right. So we’re not like taking money out of their pockets in the like 10 hours probably that I spent that would have taken someone else too. Um, but just realizing like, Hey, that didn’t feel so good to barely make it. Um, and [00:26:00] I, I hung on that long cause I wanted to learn it. But one thing about, one thing about coding is like, you can’t.

[00:26:09] Um, the way I can force almost anything else that’s in my skillset. So, anyway, I’m curious. So I’m going to turn this into a question for you all, like, do you have areas, um, in your professional life that either you are in and you feel over your head, you don’t have to say it on the podcast or that you would like to be in over your head on so that maybe you could grow into that area a little bit.

[00:26:33] Anybody relating to any of this?

[00:26:34] Brett: I

[00:26:35] Christina: yeah. I, I, 100% relate on.

[00:26:38] Brett: no.

[00:26:39] Jeff: No, do it, Christina.

[00:26:41] Christina: No, I was just going to say, like, I I’ve always, like, I kind of had a fake it til you make it approach for a lot of things. And I think, uh, to, to your point, as you were saying, like as a journalist, that is sort of part of the thing, right? Because a lot of times we have to write about things that we don’t have deep knowledge or expertise on, and you have to turn it around very quickly, but you also need to be [00:27:00] as accurate as possible.

[00:27:01] At least that was what I always tried to do. And so there would be times when I would have things where I might not know at the beginning of how I was doing something, but I’d have to kind of like pretend and then just go into it and learn as fast as possible. And to me, that was always sort of part of the appeal, uh, with my day job, with my current, one of my old one, my current one is a little bit different, but my, uh, because I feel like I have I’m coming in with a lot more knowledge because of my, my last day job.

[00:27:26] But like when I started, um, you know, at, at micro. I knew Jack shit about Azure. I didn’t know anything about it. And yet I’m supposed to be kind of an expert and I’m supposed to be giving talks. I’m supposed to be teaching people how to do this stuff. And I don’t know. Right. And so there was what I found was I look forward to almost having like these deadlines, like you’re going to have to give this talk.

[00:27:48] Okay, well then I’m gonna have to build the talk and I’m going to have to go through all the things. I’m gonna have to figure out how to do it. And, and even though when I’m giving the talk, I still might be talking out my ass a little bit. If you are asking me questions, I might give wrong answers. And I certainly did [00:28:00] early on, but as I got more into it, like I would know more and I would learn more.

[00:28:05] And I would actually like, by the end, I was like, no, I actually know quite a bit. About a lot of these different things. Um, but yeah, there are definitely times when absolutely I have to create a video or a presentation or do something I’m like, I’ve never touched this before and I don’t know necessarily what I’m doing and I don’t want people to hear that thing.

[00:28:26] Oh, Christina is like completely full of shit. And if I watch one of her videos, it’s, it’s like not good information. Cause that’s not true by the time it goes out, I feel very confident that for the audience I’m targeting and for what I’m doing, that it, it it’s a, it’s been fact checked. It’s been like, it’s, it’s had tech checks, it’s had other people go through it and I feel confident, but when I’ve agreed to take it on, I don’t know.

[00:28:49] You know, and it’s like, it’s very much a kind of a fake it till you make it, um, or barely make it type of thing.

[00:28:56] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:28:57] Christina: Yeah. I mean, sometimes I’m not like you will, or you won’t and that’s [00:29:00] always part of like, I guess the fun of it, like usually like my, my look, my life philosophy is that it’ll be okay. Probably.

[00:29:08] Right. Like, I’m sure that there’ll be scenarios where I wouldn’t, but I also, I guess for me I have like limits. Like I would not for instance, try to fake it till I make it and pilot a plane. Right? Like there, there, there, there are certain things that I would not take on because I’m like, okay, if I fuck up here, the it barely make it or don’t make it.

[00:29:27] Then there are real consequences. But for other stuff, like the worst that can happen is that I’m going to be embarrassed, maybe chastise and have to make a correction, but the world will not end. And

[00:29:38] Brett: ever, have you ever not made it, like, have you ever said I can do this knowing full well that you were going to have to figure out how to do it before you could do it and then not done it?

[00:29:51] Christina: Yeah.

[00:29:52] Brett: Okay.

[00:29:52] Christina: that’s, and that’s shitty. That sucks. And, and when you, when that, when that happens, that’s really shitty. I, once, uh, I, I volunteered to write a [00:30:00] program, um, cause it would have been a very simple uploader thing so that people could upload a certain asset. This was for a community thing we were doing, um, at a conference and I volunteered to write a uploader thing and I could have done it in another language, but I just decided, yeah, I can do it in.net.

[00:30:13] It won’t be that difficult, never written in Donna before. I didn’t like getting set up. If I’d had a little more time, I probably could have figured it out. Did I get it done in time? No, absolutely did not. And I had to kind of be like, yep. I had to kind of go back to the people and be like, yeah, I thought I could do this, but I can’t.

[00:30:26] I’m sorry. And it sucked and it made me look like a flake and it sucked. And then that was a good reminder to say in my mind. Okay. Be more realistic about your goals, about what you promise, like for the, Cooper’s got a little bit of the best of me, because many times, in most cases I am able to eat out. Uh, that was a case where I could not, and there’ve been other instances too.

[00:30:49] That was, that was just the first that comes to mind. But yeah, there definitely being been instances and it’s shitty, but, um, you know, that’s also part of learning

[00:30:57] Brett: The hardest thing for me is saying no. [00:31:00] If someone pitches an idea to me and says, Hey, I think you could help with this. And even if I can help with it, it’s so hard to say, no, I don’t have time for this. No. Um, I, I know that I will end up flaking on you. If I agree to do this, I don’t actually have to say that part out loud, but I have to admit that to myself and I have to learn to say no to projects, like all the time at work.

[00:31:27] I agree to do things much like you, uh, talking about, you know, giving a talk on Azure. I, my entire job is me agreeing to write articles and do screencasts on stuff that I do not know that I can do. Um, and thus far I’ve mostly succeeded. Um, if I said I could do it, I’ve been able to do it. My biggest fear though, is those follow-up questions you mentioned, um, that like, yeah, I can figure out enough to make [00:32:00] a, a solid presentation with things that I know to be true, but if you come at me with follow-up questions, all bets are off.

[00:32:09] I don’t know what’s going to happen.

[00:32:11] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, no. And, and, and what I found for both of these things, what is, and this is, has been really, really hard for me historically, because I’m a perfectionist and, and, and I, I want to be, that’s just who I am. I’ve always, I’ve worked on it a lot, but I’m, I’m a, I am a perfectionist. I want to not just be able to do things.

[00:32:30] I want to be able to do it. Right. And I want to be able to, I don’t compare. Really that much against others, but I am comparing myself like against like myself and I’m holding myself to a very high standard. And what happens sometimes would have had to learn is a, like you said to say no, which can be really hard cause you want to help.

[00:32:47] Like I want to help people. And, and I, I feel good about that is a learning to say no, which is really important. And B, and this has been a hard one too, but it’s been really important is learning when people ask you something and I don’t know the answer to just [00:33:00] say, I don’t know.

[00:33:01] Jeff: Mm.

[00:33:02] Christina: That is really hard because most people like, even on this podcast, you be like, oh, Christina knows everything.

[00:33:06] She’ll have an answer for everything. And I have a lot of information. I do know a lot of things. Right. And I’m good at having answers. And sometimes they’re not correct, but most of the time they are, the problem is though, like, you know, cause I’ll be honest about that. I’m not, obviously I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m imperfect, I’m human and I’m there’s.

[00:33:21] I have to remind myself all the time. There’s so many things I don’t know. And I want to learn so much, but I genuinely love to learn, but it’s become really important for me. And I’ve gotten much, much better about owning and admitting. No, you know what? I don’t know. I don’t know, but I can, I can help you find someone who will, and maybe they’ll look at me and think, well, you gave this talk, how come you don’t know the answer to this?

[00:33:42] And maybe they’ll think less of me and that’s okay. You know, if they, if they do like, that’s completely, I have to live with that. I have to like have that reality. But I also have to think, do I expect every single person that I’ve ever seen given. To know every answer to everything. No, I don’t, you know, especially if they can help me find the answer, I don’t expect someone to be omnipotent [00:34:00] and know every answer what’s in.

[00:34:02] What I used to do is I would kind of give a bullshit answer and then I’d realized later that it was wrong. And I was like, fuck, I gave them the wrong answer. You know, you feel bad about it. And you’re like, well, I can’t track the person down now, but it sucks. And now I’ve kind of learned. I’m like, no, you know what if I genuinely don’t know, I’ll be like, that’s a great question.

[00:34:19] I do not know the answer to that, but let me find somebody who does, and then I, at that same time, if I can, I try to learn the answer so that if I’m ever asked again, I now know, but that’s, that’s the tough thing is, is I think for, for me anyway, it, but what’s helped is just, yeah. If I get the followup questions and I don’t know.

[00:34:36] Be honest about that. And I’ve even done things I’ve even done things in life talks where people have asked me, I was like, all right, we’re going to have a fun game called Goo