276: The Bee Gees Were a Great Band

Overtired 276

[00:00:00] Brett: Hey, Hey, Hey there listeners, um, I’m Brett Terpstra. You’re listening to overtired. I’m here with Christina Warren as always, but special announcement. You guys remember Jeff Severns Gunzel from movies such as the last three episodes. We have decided to make Jeff a permanent member of the over-tired crew.

[00:00:28] It is now it is now an overtired throttle, which I mean, it kind of, so like the, the theme song goes tired. So tired over-tired, which is three. Like by the time you get to oversight, it’s it’s three of us. And like, it was always meant to be, this was meant to happen. So welcome, Jeff.

[00:00:47] Jeff: Thank you. I’m honored. I’ve had so much fun talking with you all, and it’s been like a nice, a nice sort of, um, change in the, the rhythm of my, of my weeks.

[00:00:56] Brett: would you, would you say therapeutic because that’s what we’re [00:01:00] going.

[00:01:00] Jeff: No, it has been Therapedic. I mean, the first, the last episode, like I was in a bad space that week and, and that conversation really just kind of jolted me out of it. And the similar thing happened the next time. So I find that it’s I find that

[00:01:14] Brett: when I contacted Jeff to say, Hey, this thing just happened and I lost two and a half hours of our audio. And I basically wasted your weekend. Jap was like, oh, cool, redo. I need a redo. He was excited.

[00:01:31] Christina: me that honestly, I was going to say that was the thing that made me think. I was like, oh, he’s one of us, because I was like, I mean, I, I said, okay, well we’ll, we’ll do it again. But in my mind, I’m like, there’s no way Jeff is going to want to come back after.

[00:01:46] Jeff: No, it wasn’t a waste at all.

[00:01:47] It’s like Kevin, a good dinner party. And then being like, oh man, we forgot to record it. Can we do another one? It’s like,

[00:01:52] Brett: You record your dinner party.

[00:01:54] Jeff: I do have a dinner

[00:01:56] Brett: Remind me not to go to Jeff’s dinner parties. [00:02:00] Oh my God. I haven’t.

[00:02:01] Jeff: consensual.

[00:02:02] Brett: have embarrassed myself so many times at dinner parties. Those never come out with me feeling good about

[00:02:08] Jeff: Oh, I know it was my fear about doing a podcast like this. It’s just like, wait a minute. So that means it’s like a dinner party every week and those don’t always end well for me.

[00:02:19] Brett: So, Christina, how’s your mental health?

[00:02:21] Christina: Um, and that’s too bad. Um, I, um, it’s been an interesting week and, um, I don’t know, my, my, my ADHD is feeling kind of off the charts, but other than that, my mental health is pretty good.

[00:02:35] Jeff: How about you?

[00:02:36] Brett: I, uh, I am clearly depressed even though I’ve actually been functioning at what I consider to be a pretty normal level. I am currently convinced that Victor and Aaron hate me. Like they hate me. And I think even you and Jeff, uh, are making fun of me. And that is

[00:02:56] Jeff: we are well, yeah, but not like on the podcast,

[00:02:59] Brett: [00:03:00] That is a clear, it is a clear sign of depression for me when I feel like the world is out to get me and everybody hates me and, and it gets dark.

[00:03:10] So I’m, I guess I’m, I’m depressed. I’m looking forward to, I’m almost to the point where I can start my Vyvanse again. Uh, get back on my ADHD stimulant. I’ve been treating my ADHD with lion’s mane and saffron, which is not terribly effective. It’s not great. Um, I think that saffron and lion’s mane are great additions to stimulants, but they do not replace stimulants.

[00:03:42] Jeff: Uh,

[00:03:43] Christina: no, because I’m going to be controversial here and you’re going to definitely disagree with me, but a large part of, of like, um, homeopathy or whatever

[00:03:53] Jeff: is bullshit.

[00:03:54] Brett: I, yeah, no, there’s a line though, between homeopathy and like [00:04:00] actual like supplements that have undergone FDA studies, which, which the reason I’m taking saffron is because of a study, not peer reviewed to be clear, not peer reviewed,

[00:04:12] Jeff: Okay. So it’s not a real study.

[00:04:13] Brett: uh, it is no, a study is real. It’s just not reliable until peer reviewed.

[00:04:20] So, and, and there may be more that comes out in the future. And, and basically I’m taking, I’m taking saffron because there was a study that showed promise and what can it hurt to take saffron? Um, but I can absolutely say it is not a replacement for stimulants, for ADHD.

[00:04:42] Jeff: Man.

[00:04:43] Brett: I don’t disagree with you though.

[00:04:44] Homeopathy as, as a pseudoscience,

[00:04:48] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:04:49] Brett: I do not agree with I,

[00:04:51] Jeff: I’m not starting my official first episode going down this

[00:04:55] Brett: as Vic, as Victor, as Victor would say, I give no quarter to [00:05:00] homeopathy. I can’t remember what came up. We were talking about someone who like some corporation that, that indirectly, uh, supported the, don’t say gay legislation that just happened. And, and his response was I give no quarter to those people.

[00:05:22] Jeff: Thus ruining a perfectly fine led Zepplin. Uh,

[00:05:26] Brett: Is that a led Zeppelin song? No

[00:05:28] Jeff: No quarter Yeah.

[00:05:29] Brett: I’m unfamiliar. My, my, my experience with led Zeppelin is so there was a, I can’t remember what band did kill the BGS. Um,

[00:05:42] Jeff: I don’t know. I don’t

[00:05:43] Christina: either, but the beaches were a great band.

[00:05:46] Brett: No they weren’t. Um,

[00:05:48] Jeff: Great

[00:05:49] Brett: no, no, no. The BG disco in general,

[00:05:53] Jeff: back to

[00:05:54] Brett: every, okay. Okay. So back to homeopathy,

[00:05:57] Jeff: kidding. I’m just going to the accident. It looks like the name of the band is [00:06:00] the accident.

[00:06:00] Brett: um, uh, the accident. Yes. I had that seven inch and then I discovered screeching weasels. I hate led Zepplin. And I actually heard that the only led Zepplin I had heard before that was actually a cover band. I think they were called dead Zeplin,

[00:06:19] Jeff: Dread

[00:06:19] Brett: dreads, Zeplin that, and like, that was the extent of my exposure to led Zeppelin was through a cover like parody band of

[00:06:28] Jeff: Got it. That makes sense.

[00:06:30] Brett: So I come from, I come, like I grew up without rock and roll. My first music was my first music was heavy metal, which I had to listen to until my parents would like burn my CDs. And then, and then I got into punk rock and punk rock was very anti, like seventies rock. Like that was a common theme of like anti high seventies rock.

[00:06:56] Jeff: except it turns out that mostly the people making the most influential punk [00:07:00] rock were huge seventies

[00:07:01] Christina: rock fans. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was like, most of them were like, they that’s what they grew up on.

[00:07:06] Jeff: So once it, once

[00:07:07] Brett: songs, like I hate led Zepplin and kill the BGS right now,

[00:07:12] Jeff: oh, my God. I could never, I could never get, I could never, I could never, uh, this is not a hill. I’ll die on. Like, even when I was into punk rock, like all the little, like, you must hate this, you must hate this. Like, I couldn’t, I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t get in. Couldn’t get involved in the Vetter versus Cobain thing.

[00:07:31] That seemed absurd to me. They’re just two people. And now that I’m old, they were two adolescent just barely out of that adolescents.

[00:07:38] Brett: I’m going to call it right now. This episode title is going to be the BJ’s were a great band. I feel like, I feel like that is the title of

[00:07:46] Christina: I mean, look, well, look, I’m just saying objectively, if you look at the songwriting of Barry Gibbs, if you look at like them as pop songs, like the, the, the Saturday night fever soundtrack is objective, really fucking great.

[00:07:57] Jeff: Oh yeah.

[00:07:59] Brett: Oh my God. I can’t, [00:08:00] I can’t disagree more

[00:08:02] Jeff: Wow.

[00:08:03] Brett: we can agree on, on like the songwriting prowess of Taylor swift, but I cannot agree to disco in any way being good. It just goes against every fiber

[00:08:13] Jeff: zoomed out. You’ve just zoomed out to a whole genre though.

[00:08:16] Christina: Exactly it, because we could, because the thing is, is that I, they, they get the credit of popularizing disco, but if you really listen to the beaches, like, especially the Saturday night fever album, this is a pop album

[00:08:29] Brett: Are you guys going to make me do a deep dive?

[00:08:31] Christina: Yeah. Honestly, you.

[00:08:32] should listen to the fucking music of the GIP brothers. It’s good shit. Like they’re, they’re Australian. They’re great.

[00:08:38] Brett: I hate you.

[00:08:39] Jeff: and pretend, pretend you’ve never heard of anything called disco or the BGS or anything that came before after, and just do the, do the Buddhist beginner’s mind with the

[00:08:49] Christina: BJ’s also,

[00:08:51] Jeff: I mean,

[00:08:51] Brett: hate you. You’re going to change my worldview and I hate you.

[00:08:54] Christina: even if you just listened to other people, covering their songs, Um, like that, that’s how, you.

[00:08:59] know, [00:09:00] similar to Taylor swift.

[00:09:00] That’s how, you know how it’s like a really good song when people can, cover in a completely different style.

[00:09:05] Jeff: Yeah. There’s a good,

[00:09:06] Brett: can agree on this. Like covers covers are. Covers are often better than the original and the fact that someone sees enough value in something to cover it in their own style absolutely gives credence to it. So what are the BGS covers? I should be listening to,

[00:09:24] Jeff: Okay. So Jeff

[00:09:25] Christina: just mentioned the Feist cover. Um,

[00:09:29] Jeff: well, I, well, while you’re, while you’re thinking on that, I want to challenge your premise. Brett. Why, why on earth? Does the fact that someone covered something give credence to,

[00:09:37] it? Like there are whole bands where all they do is play covers, like dread Zeplin doesn’t make me like led Zeppelin.

[00:09:43] You know what I mean? Like.

[00:09:45] Brett: shouldn’t they like

[00:09:47] Jeff: No, it wasn’t. No, it’s like okay. Some dudes, you know, who probably live in a really stinky two bedroom apartment together, uh, came up with a funny idea.

[00:09:57] Brett: going to, share a Spotify playlist in our [00:10:00] show notes of,

[00:10:01] Jeff: love a good cover though. If we can just, if I just want to say that I love a good cover, especially when someone brings themselves to it.

[00:10:09] Brett: I have a playlist called it’s it’s titled perfunctory birthday playlist because I’m constantly adding it to it. And

[00:10:15] Jeff: Is that a funk? Is it a funk playlist?

[00:10:17] Brett: it’s no it’s perfunctory. The, the only time that me and my friends get together every year is for my birthday. And it’s not a selfish thing. I’m just the only person who cares enough.

[00:10:32] About their birthday to try to bring people together. So, uh, we have, we have about six friends and we get together for my birthday and I have a playlist that is on in the background and it is 100% covers of songs that people might not like in the original format, but the covers are better than the songs.

[00:10:55] And it includes Taylor swift. It includes Nirvana. It includes [00:11:00] Mia like everything that has ever been covered where right. Oh my God. Okay. So I w I will link this playlist. There’s a cover of, um, all I want to do is,

[00:11:13] Jeff: oh yeah.

[00:11:15] Brett: um, it’s in there and it is, it is better than the original, and it will get stuck in your head even more than the original. And I love Mia, but these are covers. These are covers that compete with the original version. Including the, the much alive maligned and rightfully so Ryan Adams, like it’s in there because those covers were pretty phenomenal.

[00:11:42] Christina: No, they are fantastic. Uh, and, and I, and it was, we talked about this six years ago, but it was, it was sort of frustrating in one sense that there was a certain contingent, a lot of people who then became big Taylor swift, like supporters and fans when she did folklore and evermore, which to be clear are fantastic albums, but this was [00:12:00] the same sort of people who, as soon as Ryan Adams covered 1989, they were like, oh wow.

[00:12:04] This stuff is really good. And it’s like, okay. Cause I’m with Jeff on this, like, look as like a young. The teenager. I was certainly kind of that pretentious asshole, but where were you? You think you have to hate certain things? Yeah, but, but my purse, but my personal thing has always been, like, I think that I’m probably the epitome of like high, low, like I’m both highbrow and lowbrow.

[00:12:27] Like I like really basic sometimes even gaudy shit stuff, like stuff like the, the BGS, who, again, to be clear, I fucking great band, but I also like some of the really like, like the, the good, like the stuff that everyone agrees to is like intellectual and smart and that, that you should like, but I like the mixture of the two

[00:12:48] Brett: When I heard, when I heard dreads Zeppelin’s version of stairway, I thought that’s a good hook. Like that’s a, that’s a pretty good song. And I don’t remember what their [00:13:00] lyrics to it were. But when I heard the original, I was like, oh, now I see where they were coming from. And it was good. And cashmere like blew my mind.

[00:13:11] When I heard cashmere, I had heard samples of cashmere and other songs.

[00:13:17] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:13:18] Brett: But when I heard the original, like there was a holy shit moment for me. And as much as I had been preconditioned to hate Zeplin, cashmere and stairway are phenomenal songs. And I cannot argue with that,

[00:13:33] Christina: No they are. And, and like that, that music is all like, it’s best like the one, um, I would say that,

[00:13:40] other than like prog rock, like the, the, uh, and, and disco, which is pop, like the, the era that I have, like the biggest hole in my music, like history, catalog, whatever is the seventies. Um,

[00:13:54] Jeff: I

[00:13:54] Brett: weird because the nineties were all about the seventies.

[00:13:57] Christina: they were, but I think what it [00:14:00] is, is yes, as, as we, as we’ve discussed, I think the reason for me that it is, is that that was the.

[00:14:06] Like my parents, um, my mom has much more eclectic and open-minded tastes than my dad. My dad’s tasted music is, is basically stuck in like the early 1960s. Although he does like rod Stewart and stuff like that, my dad has pretty shitty taste in music to be honest. And, um, like they, so, so the sort of music that they were, then my sister was born in, I at the, uh, independence in 76.

[00:14:31] So the music that they were listening to then became kind of like kid music. Um, and then I’m, I’m born, you know, at 83. And so. I, um, you know, which is a completely kind of different era at that point, like MTB and whatnot. So my whole cultural kind of aspect, like I just, I got into music in, in, in the early nineties.

[00:14:55] Um, but kind of leading up to that, all of my influences were, you know, Michael Jackson and [00:15:00] Cindy lopper and Madonna and, and I never had any of the seventies stuff. And then when I got into more rock music, yes, it was, it was influenced by the seventies, but I didn’t listen to that stuff. So I have a huge hole in my like personal catalog, um, about anything I would say past like 1969. like, I I really like it. It’s, uh, it’s like there, I have little drips and drabs, but honestly that’s something I probably should rectify because

[00:15:28] Jeff: I don’t have it.

[00:15:29] Brett: like, I get that as someone who grew up without any rock music, other than Elvis, Elvis was somehow okay. In hers and this, this is going to lead down a dark path. So we should do a sponsor break before things get dark, because I’m about to talk about my childhood.

[00:15:47] Christina: yeah. And, and, and why you stormed out of breakfast this morning, right.

[00:15:49] Brett: Yes.

[00:15:51] Christina: Okay. But speaking of music, and actually this is a great segue.

[00:15:54] Brett: God. It is it’s perfect.

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[00:15:56] Christina: you know, if you’re looking, um, to, to try to [00:16:00] like list a good way of listening to music, you obviously need some earbuds. And so a lot of people didn’t even make resolutions this year.

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[00:17:13] Um, I know that, uh, Brett especially has trouble with earbuds falling out. My husband grant, I actually, um, uh, had him, he took the, he stole these from me and he has a really hard time with other ear buds in his ears. And this was the thing that he said, like he loves them because they will not fall out.

[00:17:31] Brett: Yeah, well like, uh, so I, I, I have paid for, and I’m not allowed to talk about competitors names, but anyone who listens to this show knows what earbuds I have paid good money for. And I can not find there is no combination of, uh, tips that will make both earbuds stay in my ears because my ears are different size.

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[00:18:12] Jeff: Shakes? Yes.

[00:18:15] Brett: They don’t fall out. If I had

[00:18:16] Jeff: you put them in, did you put them in

[00:18:18] Brett: I had like bang, pow and like bang power sound effects right now, I would tell you that, like, I can take a punch and these things won’t fall out.

[00:18:26] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:18:26] Christina: no, uh, GRA grant has been like doing a bunch of stuff like working with his, his guitar and like Has been like running all over the house and stuff. And like, he, he even commented, not even knowing that this was part of the ad read. He was like, yeah, they don’t fall out. So,

[00:18:38] Brett: doing the, like the slide across the floor and his socks and his boxers?

[00:18:43] Jeff: oh man, I got pulled out of

[00:18:44] Brett: cause I can tell you that they will survive that.

[00:18:47] Jeff: That’s

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[00:20:44] Fundamental(ist)s

[00:20:44] Brett: Jeff. Did we warn you that this was a Taylor swift podcast?

[00:20:48] Jeff: Yeah. I, know from the title, I got no problem with that. I actually I’d actually go

[00:20:52] Brett: felt a little guilty.

[00:20:54] Jeff: I go so far as to request a multi-disciplinary syllabus.

[00:20:57] Christina: Okay. Okay. Which I can [00:21:00] write for you. I, I can give that to you and, and, uh, and we can give you a whole thesis and syllabus of the show, but Taylor swift is definitely a core component of this.

[00:21:08] So I accept that. You

[00:21:11] Jeff: can have it, you can add attention to the negative.

[00:21:13] Brett: That is also, that is also my approach to this. I accept this.

[00:21:16] Jeff: I, well, I watched a video of her the other day in jury duty. Did you see this.

[00:21:20] Yeah, that was a good bit. Okay. I was like, she seems all right. She’s pretty cool.

[00:21:27] Brett: So speaking of speaking of parents and bad taste that wasn’t too, too long, a walk, was it.

[00:21:35] Jeff: No, no, that’s good.

[00:21:36] Brett: So I have breakfast with my folks every Saturday morning. Uh, we didn’t for, uh, during Omicron, I liked curtailed the breakfast. Uh, our, our community spread was too high and like one in four people in our town were infected and I wasn’t having it.

[00:21:55] Uh, we, we curtail breakfast. We recently resumed them. And then [00:22:00] this morning, so we had this list of like banned topics and we don’t talk about it, but if you bring up like the weather, for example, that will lead down. My parents are very fundamentalist Christians and talking about the weather eventually leads to climate change, which leads to huge arguments.

[00:22:27] And, and today my mom told me that my, my sister-in-law had taken all of our, our nieces to the Ark encounter. And if you’re not familiar with Ken Ham’s arc encounter, it is, it is a apparent, uh, uh, an, a sensibly life-sized replica of Noah’s arc in which they proclaim that dinosaurs were on the Ark because the earth is only 6,000 years old.

[00:22:59] And if [00:23:00] dinosaurs existed, which that’s hard to deny, then they must’ve been on the arc with Noah. And, and like, that is just the beginning of the claims that this makes and I

[00:23:13] Jeff: wait, can I just, can I just make sure I fully understand, so essentially, uh, not denying dinosaurs, just saying that, um, if dinosaurs existed, then they were on the arc air go the arc must’ve been way bigger than we thought. So let’s

[00:23:27] Brett: Here’s the thing.

[00:23:29] Jeff: Kentucky.

[00:23:29] Brett: The Bible, the Bible states how big the arc was

[00:23:34] Jeff: That’s

[00:23:35] Brett: measurements are given. So they have to contort all of this reality to fit into this arc, uh, based on biblical dimensions and, and they, they do their best and they’re okay. There are so many problems with, with their version of the earth that are just like inexplicable,

[00:23:59] Jeff: Right. [00:24:00] And

[00:24:00] Christina: also the fact that, you know, this has been a text that has been converted in multiple languages and, um, uh, parts of it haven’t been removed and, and other things, but we won’t even get into that

[00:24:10] Brett: Like we could debate the veracity of, of NOAA’s of the story of Noah for ever. And, and I do, I watch like almost daily, I watch like YouTube videos that, that speak against the stories that I was raised to believe. And I spent a long time getting to atheism. I spent so many years like D programming myself from funding, fundamentalist, Christianity, but then the, so my, my mom tells me that my sister-in-law took all of my nieces, who I love dearly to the Ark encounter.

[00:24:52] And I just buried my head in my hands. I, I just, I didn’t, I knew this was a forbidden topic. [00:25:00] And she, she was like, what’s wrong. I don’t understand what your reaction to this is. And I just, I, all I could manage was like the lies that that exhibit tells are blatant and impossible to prove. And then my dad said the words, you know, what doesn’t have in the evidence evolution at which point I was just, I was so floored.

[00:25:32] Like I couldn’t like the realization that my parents, like, this is not news to me. I grew up with this shit, but the realization again, that my parents were young earth, creationist who believe the earth is 6,000 years old. And that the Bible and all of its aspects are, is literal. The English translation of the Bible is literal.

[00:25:57] Jeff: And are we talking the king James or what are [00:26:00] we talking?

[00:26:00] Brett: Oh, new international is totally fair

[00:26:03] Jeff: new. Internationalists got it.

[00:26:04] Brett: Totally fair game. Um, the, yeah, the NIV is just a furthering of, of God’s word and they are they’re Bible literalists and the earth is 6,000 years old. And I just, like, I tried, I did my best to like to argue, but I was hyperventilating like this realization that my parents were of these, of this ilk that did not recognize evolution as actual science.

[00:26:38] Just, I, I had been there for 45 minutes and I couldn’t, I couldn’t, I just had to leave. It was, I feel a little bit bad that I cut. They made me breakfast and I stormed out, but I just couldn’t.

[00:26:53] Jeff: Um, what, what works when, when it works with your parents, [00:27:00] like you have this list of things that you don’t talk about Um,

[00:27:03] Brett: work.

[00:27:04] Jeff: Uh, huh?

[00:27:05] Brett: We talk about health,

[00:27:07] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:27:08] Brett: my siblings and how they’re doing, and that’s about it.

[00:27:13] Jeff: And, and like, how, how aware, how, how present is the list in the room when you’re together? Is it constantly

[00:27:21] Brett: Oh, very, you know, you can feel people tip toe around it until they don’t until like, my dad knew as soon as, as soon as he, as he said, you know what? Doesn’t have any evidence evolution. And he like made heart icon.

[00:27:37] Christina: He, he was purposely, he, he was making, he was making a point. Yeah. Like I, especially, because I didn’t get to see my parents for, you know, a year and a half. I’ve tried to not talk about politics with them. Um, when I’ve been going home to see the baby and whatnot, my mom and I did get into one fight.

[00:27:53] Um, uh, last time I was there in, in, in the car and, and I, and I said something to her that was actually fairly rude. And I, [00:28:00] and I apologize, although I wasn’t wrong where, um, we, we were talking about some sort of issue and I was like, well, look, if you want to completely, you know, forego all, um, you know, like rational thought and science or whatnot, or, or I don’t remember what I said, but it was something that they completely kind of dismissed her.

[00:28:17] Uh, perspective at all. Cause I, cause whatever she was talking about is just factually incorrect is just wrong. Um, and this doesn’t get into religious stuff per se, but it was getting into something, um, uh, around like geopolitics and it was just actually incorrect. And, and I, I made some kind of, uh, you know, comments kind of snippy thing about that.

[00:28:38] And, and she had to laugh. She was just like, oh my God, that was so dismissive or whatever. And she was right. But, um, I I’ve, I used to always argue vociferously about that. And it’s weird because now that I have like the fear of, you know, only having so much time left with people, [00:29:00] like there’s certain, there’s certain conversations I just

[00:29:03] Jeff: won’t get into.

[00:29:04] Brett: we do, we tip to around these topics because we accept my parents accept that I am a brainwashed atheist, and I accept that they are brainwash fundamentalists and, and we tip to around these topics. And there’s just kind of this silent nod that, yeah, I know, I know how you feel about this. We’re going to just steer away from this topic now.

[00:29:27] Um, but my dad actually told me this morning that not only was I brainwashed the entire scientific community was brainwashed and it is to their detriment that they have blackballed, anyone who disagrees with evolution and like, like, it was some kind of conspiracy at like they had made up this fantasy and they

[00:29:51] Jeff: fucking Kirk, Cameron, Kirk, Cameron

[00:29:57] Christina: match. Do you remember when he got into like the debate or like, [00:30:00] like one of his people, like they tried to have like a debate with an evolutionary scientist to prove that the Bible was real,

[00:30:06] Brett: Well, Kent Ken ham, Ken ham, who created the evolutionary or the, uh, the Ark encounter and the creationist museum had a debate with bill Nye.

[00:30:17] Jeff: That’s what it was.

[00:30:19] Brett: it was like most bill Nye supporters were like, why would you do this? Why would you give this guy a platform? Uh, but he did it. And by all accounts, he won the debate, but it doesn’t matter.

[00:30:32] You can’t debate with these

[00:30:33] Christina: no, you can’t like, these are people.

[00:30:35] who like, there’s not going to be, you know, they are committed to what they’re committed to, what you hope, I guess with that, is that for people who might not be completely all in, um, might have some sort of change in thought because, uh, this is less true, I think for, um, civilians the creationist stuff.

[00:30:56] But this is certainly true with like a conspiracy [00:31:00] theories where people can make a compelling argument and. Younger people who are just getting into something will see it and see, oh, it makes sense. And there’ll be like me when I was, you know, um, in elementary school and, and up, up until I think college, honestly, who I believed a lot of the Kennedy conspiracy theory stuff, because the stuff that I’d seen that lined up and it wasn’t until I saw some sort of documentary on one of the anniversaries where it was showing a direct lineup between where Oswald wasn’t shot and how it would actually like it was a computer.

[00:31:37] Um, Like generated, um, like, like recreation of what the car was like. And they found that people who’d said, oh, there’s no way that it could have gone through both people. They’d miscalculated how the car was set up. And, and there is, there was like a, um, that the front seat was up, um, uh, slightly and, and, and I guess, like offset. Right, Exactly. And so when I saw the [00:32:00] actual like bullet trajectory path, when somebody had recreated, like in they’d recreate this uproot or film in, in a 3d, like, it was, it was incredible. And I went, oh, holy shit. Yeah. There’s no question about it. It was, is a single, you know, uh, uh, shooter. There’s like, if you want to talk about who put them there and whatnot, I personally agree as difficult as it, you know, sometimes is to give the government credence on things.

[00:32:23] Like I do believe, you know, the Warren commission’s report. And, but, but seeing that at least absolve me of any question of, oh,

[00:32:31] Brett: basically the story of my life. Like I grew up in elementary school, these stories of Noah’s Ark and these stories, like all of the Bible in general. Made sense. Like they seemed reasonable and it wasn’t until high school. When I started to be presented with evidence to the contrary that I began to question things and then college, [00:33:00] you know, uh, you know, college, um, that like, it became very clear that these things were errand.

[00:33:09] And, and, and I, I began my path towards being an atheist. And if I had been raised much, my girlfriend was raised in a, uh, uh, like very, almost Unitarian kind of home where

[00:33:26] Jeff: Our, our reading today is from Steinbeck.

[00:33:32] Brett: And, and so she doesn’t have, like, she has this fear of fundamentalists, but she doesn’t have this strong aversion to fund, like to Christianity, to, to religious people that I do. And if I had been raised like that, I would probably still be a, whatever you would consider spiritual, although. Okay. So I did, I went to temple again [00:34:00] last week

[00:34:01] Jeff: Okay.

[00:34:02] Brett: and I, so I, after this snafu with my parents this morning, I texted my rabbi and I was like, all right, I need to know if you believe in evolution.

[00:34:17] And then I was like, maybe I don’t want her to know. Maybe, maybe.

[00:34:21] Jeff: a rabbi. Of course he does.

[00:34:22] Brett: Maybe if, if you don’t believe in evolution, maybe I don’t want to know about it, but he’s like, fucking of course, I believe in evolution, there’s no reform Jew in the United States who doesn’t believe in evolution. And although Siri translated it as there’s no reformed you who doesn’t believe evolution, Israel,

[00:34:50] Jeff: Whoa, Siri’s all like I got a rabbi here. That’d be switch.

[00:34:55] Brett: Israel, Baraka, TA out. And I, [00:35:00] um, and so like, he’s like, of course I believe in evolution, like there’s, it’s, it’s inconceivable that anyone wouldn’t believe in evolution. And I was like, this is why I go to temple. This is why like, I, I am an atheist, I’m a sauna atheist. I’m not looking for God, but I appreciate the community.

[00:35:20] Christina: Well, I was going to say, you’re not looking for the real, your bro. You’re looking, we talked about this last episode and you’re looking for the community.

[00:35:25] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate in this last temple I went to, they were celebrating, uh, a couple that had been with the community for 49 years and were moving on. They were moving to be closer to their, their family and they were leaving the community and they let the, the, the, the man get up and talk about like what, what that community had meant to him.

[00:35:57] And it was very touching. Like [00:36:00] I was, I was like, this is, I understand why people are religious. If this is, if this is what they get out of it, having grown up with fire and brimstone and young earth creationism, it made sense to me.

[00:36:17] Jeff: Um, there’s a book, uh, the philosopher Alain de Baton. I dunno how you say his name actually, because I think it’s French and it probably just sounds like Elaine at all. Um, and it’s called religion for atheists and not only is this person, just one of my favorite, very accessible, um, writers, but he does a beautiful job of the whole book is essentially just like, okay. Yeah. I’m an atheist. Let’s, you know, that’s the thing. Um, but do I just write off everything that it, you know, is filed under religion? Or do I kind of try to understand that being an atheist, what might be missing in my life? Like in, in my, in my attempts, at meaning making in my attempts at [00:37:00] understanding how

[00:37:00] Brett: is the actual important part of religion? That’s

[00:37:03] Jeff: Yeah, and he just, it’s a beautiful book. It’s a really quick read. I just really recommend it. It’s a beautiful book and it gets that community of course, and ritual and all of that, but it’s really nice.

[00:37:13] Brett: it called again

[00:37:14] Jeff: It’s called religion. It’s called religion for atheists.

[00:37:19] Brett: All right.

[00:37:22] Jeff: That’s a great book. I like, I like being able to T so I’m not, I’m not, I’m not religious. I was raised Catholic.

[00:37:29] Um, I’m, I’m pretty sure.

[00:37:31] Brett: not religious. I was raised Catholic.

[00:37:33] Jeff: I’m pretty sure that I’m pretty sure that I don’t believe in God, at least in the way I’ve understood it. Yada, yada, yada. Um, but um, I have to say that I, I get nothing out of having conversations about religion that, um, That like, you know, the first step is like, okay, let’s dig two trenches.

[00:37:52] Those are where the idiots are, and this is where we are. Right. Like, I can’t, I just can’t do that. Um, because I’ve, I’ve been [00:38:00] around enough people in my life who are religious to understand that, like, this is, this is how you do meaning-making at its best. Right. It can be really dysfunctional and terrible at its worst.

[00:38:08] Um, and I think you’re describin