273: Sex Tape

Overtired 273

[00:00:00] Brett: So welcome to over tired. We are, um, recording in the wake of a minor tragedy. Uh, last Sunday we sat down for two and a half hours.

[00:00:17] We got, we got like an hour into it and we’re like, oh hell, let’s just keep going. Let’s record two episodes at once. And we finished after two and a half hours and I went and got a snack and I came back and I started the editing process. And I did a thing where I moved the files out of the audio hijack folders.

[00:00:37] And safely had them in my edit folder. And then in audio hijack, I clicked a button to delete sessions and instead of moving the sessions to the trash, so it had like a bookmark on them. Instead of moving the session, you said the trash, it just vaporize them. And two and a half hours of audio disappeared.

[00:00:57] And I was the only person who had all the tracks and [00:01:00] we lost it and we took a week to recover and we’re back today and we’re going to record another marathon session that will be published in two episodes. And we have a special guest for both of them. So without further ado, I’m Brett Terpstra. I’m here with Christina Warren and our special guests.

[00:01:19] Jeff Severns Gunzel, how’s it going? You guys.

[00:01:22] Jeff: Good.

[00:01:24] Christina: Pretty good. Pretty good. Uh, I mean, you know, honestly, I, I was promised a week off, uh, because we, we did so much work, so I’m a little, I’m

[00:01:34] Brett: Uh, no, I get, it was devastating. Like I couldn’t, I couldn’t even, I couldn’t even talk. I was so no, it was horrible. Plus I had been manic. I was like on two hours of sleep, it was awful.

[00:01:46] Christina: I

[00:01:46] was going to say that was, that was a problem. Like, like, um, you had been so tired and so you were, you know, you did a great job, but like I could tell you’re just like trying to keep it together.

[00:01:55] Brett: I fell asleep. Like there was a point where I

[00:01:58] Jeff: you did fall

[00:01:58] Brett: at about two hours and [00:02:00] 15 minutes.

[00:02:01] Christina: They were like, We were like red and

[00:02:03] he was like, oh yeah, hi. Yeah. But no, but, but, you know, so I felt terrible.

[00:02:08] Cause I was like, oh man, like this was like rough for you. And then for, I mean, we’ve all been there. Those things have happened, but it is good. Another good reminder of just like how, how much we hate computers, honestly. Like,

[00:02:23] Jeff: you know?

[00:02:24] Brett: Well,

[00:02:25] Jeff: And also like,

[00:02:26] Brett: love, hate.

[00:02:27] Jeff: the thing, the thing I felt bad about is it Brett, when you kind of gave me a sense of how hard you were taking it.

[00:02:33] I was like, man, that conversation was great for my mental health. So I’m just glad it happened.

[00:02:40] Brett: Yeah, we’re basically a therapy session. We’re a free, a free therapy session. I guess we get paid. You didn’t get paid.

[00:02:49] Jeff: That’s all right. I

[00:02:50] Brett: Actually. None of us got paid for that.

[00:02:51] Jeff: I was going to say none of it last week.

[00:02:56] Mental Health Corner the First

[00:02:56] Brett: So w w the mental health corner last week, I will, [00:03:00] I will recap because I’m still in kind of the same position. Um, I, I had, I had made these big plans to switch from Focalin to Vyvanse because I had to get these bipolar mood swings under control. Like I used to have a, uh, a manic episode, like once a year and for the last year or so, I’ve been having them almost monthly and I can’t keep doing it.

[00:03:26] It’s it’s not productive. And I came to believe that Focalin was the problem. So I think we talked about that. And in an episode that actually got published and I was going to switch to Vyvanse. Uh, it gets to be time for the refill. I call in the prescription and my doctor is on vacation for three weeks and they hand me over to, uh, like a fill in doctor to cover the script, but she refuses to make the switch to Vyvanse because my doctor didn’t leave any notes about it.

[00:03:56] So I got another month of Focalin and [00:04:00] immediately started having a manic episode within a week. And it just, it further cemented the fact that I have to switch to Vyvanse. And, um, it’s been a long manic episode. I think like last night was the first night I slept well in since last Friday. So I’m pissed.

[00:04:20] I’m looking. I I’m okay. So here’s the thing I realized. Um, and I, I, I’ve kind of known this, but I finally admitted to myself if I were smart, When a manic episode starts, I would stop taking the Focalin, but I really enjoy Focalin. And I extend the manic episode by continuing to take the Focalin and the fact that I can’t not take it if I have, it means I’m addicted to it.

[00:04:50] And, uh, so getting rid of it is my only choice. I can’t tell my doctor that I might have like any kind of problem with it, because that would preclude [00:05:00] me being able to get any other stimulants, even though Vyvanse is way safer and can’t be abused. Like I have to, I mean, it’s easy enough to say I need to do it because it triggers bipolar.

[00:05:11] Um, but yeah, like.

[00:05:13] Christina: yeah. Well, but you can’t be honest in that way. I mean, Right, I mean, like if you had it, I don’t know. Like, I feel like my shrink, like if you’d been with him for 20 years, like I have, it would be different, but, but, you know, um, but it would, it would require such an established relationship for a doctor not to be like, okay, well actually now this is an indicator of something that we cannot prescribe any of this class of drugs for, because you have been honest about.

[00:05:45] Brett: I was however, completely honest with Al telling her things that I’ve kind of known for months. Uh, things that I couldn’t be realized, but really like explaining where, where I stand with, like addiction [00:06:00] wise and everything. And we had a heart to heart. She was extremely understanding.

[00:06:04] Um, we made some plans to like find a new like therapist and everything. It’s going to be good. It feels good to like, have some secrets in the light, but it’s been a rough couple of days, I guess.

[00:06:19] Christina: Yeah,

[00:06:21] sorry, go on

[00:06:22] Jeff: this thing about, um, sort of diagnoses and, and, and honesty and all of that. Like, there’s a, I’ve really encountered this, this past year in both spheres, both with my, um, psychiatric nurse practitioner. I take, um, sertraline and Vyvanse and, uh, and also then at home and the problem I have.

[00:06:43] Is every time I realized how helpful it is to be a little more honest. Um, whereas I might’ve been afraid to be in the past cause I was afraid there’d be repercussions. Like what you said, bro. Like maybe they’d be like, well you told us that focal lens too much. Like cocaine. Well, we don’t want to give you [00:07:00] any stimulant.

[00:07:00] Right? Like I’m so kind of like nervous about navigating those waters when I don’t have a relationship with a professional that I think I end up also being just a bad patient because in general I find myself sort of self-censoring and not at all in a manipulative way. Right. But just like that desperate feeling of like, I know what I want and that I actually want to be a partner in this, not just your patient.

[00:07:23] Right? Like nobody knows me better than me.

[00:07:26] Brett: here’s what I want to find is a therapist, not a psychiatrist, but a therapist who understands neurodivergence who understands ADHD and bipolar, who has also been an addict. Someone, someone who understands like current, uh, like the current understandings of addiction, which have actually just in the last five years have expanded and grown, um, as well as treatment, someone who could do all of that for me, that I could just open up to you because I didn’t have to worry that they were [00:08:00] controlling my, my medication and the things that I need to function and just be brutally honest about like what I feel and what I go through.

[00:08:10] And I haven’t found that person yet. And I live in a small town and if I find that person, it will probably be a telehealth kind of

[00:08:19] Christina: I was, yeah, I was going to say, I was going to say, unfortunately, that might be one of those things, but I mean, this is one of the only positive things I think at all that has happened in the last two years is that it is normalized tele-health um, for a lot of things and, and that’s, I think really opens people up, especially people like you who like live in small towns who don’t have access maybe to a local.

[00:08:41] Have, you know, a specialist like, like what you’re looking for, you’re looking for a therapist who has experience with addiction, um, you know, personal stuff, um, which, um, not to say that, like you couldn’t maybe have that in a small town, but like the chances of it being someone who would be covered by your insurance and local to you and taking new patients [00:09:00] and those other things, like, you know, it just becomes smaller and smaller.

[00:09:03] Whereas now, and this is also really good, you know, with like how your job situation and stuff has evolved. I mean, meaning that you have, like, you know, your, your insurance situation is a little more robust, although you had good, um, state insurance before, is that, is that you have like a national network, Right.

[00:09:19] Like this is like, we have, I’m just going to go on a brief tangent just because healthcare stuff is so fucked up. So at Microsoft, we have a couple of different options for like healthcare providers. And one of them is like a Kaiser, like HMO, which, you know, they offer it and I’m like, why would anyone take this?

[00:09:39] Um, and then they have like a blue cross blue shield, like, um, HSA and like a PPO, which is nationwide. And they will give you a certain amount and you have still like a certain deductible. And like the company covers based on what they’ll put it in your HSA account, most of what the deductible would be, but not all of it.

[00:09:57] Um, and then there is a [00:10:00] local, um, HSA PPO for what they say is that the Puget sound area, but it’s not really where they will cover even more. All of that and, and kind of everything is covered. The problem with that is that you have to live on the east side of Seattle to really take advantage of the healthcare providers.

[00:10:18] And for people who don’t know, Seattle is separated by like, it’s like people that call the area like east side and west side. And, and, and it’s separated by, um,

[00:10:26] Brett: Which one’s the good side.

[00:10:28] Christina: I mean, I think the west side, cause because that’s where I live. That’s like where the city proper is. Right. So if you were living in the actual city of Seattle, you’re on the west side.

[00:10:35] but if you are living in the suburbs where people can afford bigger houses and, and will, Bellevue is actually a quite expensive, but, um, it it’s, you know, like the, kind of like the snobby kind of like area of, kind of the, you know, the, the, um, Sabi urban kind of, but suburban area, you know what I’m talking about, um, like that that’s on, on, on the east side, but like, but Kirkland and, and, and, and, um, uh, [00:11:00] Redmond and Bellevue and, and, you know, um, Samish, these other things are all on the east side.

[00:11:04] Brett: like really white neighborhoods.

[00:11:06] Christina: Uh, I mean, those names are all Indian, but yes.

[00:11:12] Jeff: And, and yes,

[00:11:13] Brett: So, so is the town I live in and it is very white.

[00:11:16] Christina: I mean, you’re not, you’re not wrong at all. I mean, we’ll, we’ll widen and, and, uh, and Asian, I guess, which is, you know, um, so, uh, but, but in terms of like, you know, Seattle does not have a lot of black people. Um, but the thing is, is it’s like, okay, so you can have this better on paper, healthcare plan, but only if you live on the east side, because if you live on the west side, you can’t go to like the, the hospital system or like the doctors.

[00:11:41] They’re like, they’re not part of the system. So it’s like, Anyway,

[00:11:46] Jeff: That is a, I’m not really trying to belittle this. That’s a real west side story. Like it’s just like that crazy ass. Like how in the hell is this the thing that means that kind of determines whether you can or can’t Have this particular

[00:11:59] Christina: kind of [00:12:00] coverage?

[00:12:00] No, exactly, exactly. Well, to me, I’m just frustrated by it. Cause I’m like, I would like this other plan. Um, but I’m not willing to only go to doctors on, you know, the, the, the east side of town. Uh, if I lived there, that’d be one thing, but I don’t. So, you know, anyway, uh, which is sorry, go on.

[00:12:17] Brett: Have you guys ever done tele-health therapy?

[00:12:20] Christina: Yeah.

[00:12:21] Jeff: Yeah. But all of my therapy? for the last three

[00:12:24] years.

[00:12:24] Yeah,

[00:12:25] Brett: setup? How do you get comfortable on, on like zoom? Like what’s your room set up for that?

[00:12:30] Christina: Oh, I just do it over the phone. I do it on zoom.

[00:12:34] Brett: I can’t, I can’t like speakerphone or do you like sit back and

[00:12:39] Christina: I mean, I have, like, I have, like, I have like my AirPods or my AirPods max on, and I’m usually like in bed sometimes I’m

[00:12:44] Brett: Yeah. Okay. That’s what I’m asking. That’s exactly what I’m asking. You’re like you’re chilling out. You’re you’re in a comfortable spot in your house.

[00:12:51] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I have done it. I think, I think I’ve done it like in, I’m trying to think. Cause, cause with my shrink before I ghosted him for a period of time, I even did it in [00:13:00] New York. So I’ve actually probably been with him at this point, tele wise, almost as much as I was with him. Um, in person, um, There might’ve been a case where we might, I might’ve been like on an above ground subway, right.

[00:13:15] Because in New York city, you know, but no one gives a shit. Um, uh, and, and there might’ve, you know, there were a couple of occasions where like, if I couldn’t find an appointment any other time where it was like, okay, I’m, I’m literally walking around New York city or sitting on a park bench. Um, again, no one cares, but in general, uh, yeah, sitting in bed or sitting in my office kind of kicked back relaxed with my headphones in.

[00:13:37] Brett: What about you, Jeff?

[00:13:38] Jeff: Oh man. Okay. So two different things, two different experiences. So one my therapist for a couple of years who, who retired like a year ago, who I just loved, but she was in, she was older and not like super computer savvy. And in fact did not want to move to telehealth even early in the pandemic, but was obviously open to it.

[00:13:56] And I spent the first, I’d say six [00:14:00] or seven. Appointments doing it with her for the first 20 minutes. And you know how frustrating that can be. And so like, you may have entered in the right Headspace, but after being like, no, here’s how I know. It’s your computer mic. I can really hear your fan and your hard drive clicking.

[00:14:16] So what I need you to do is, you know, and it’s just, she’s like, no, and then she’d go in, she’d come back. She’d be like, you know, I’ll be like, no, it’s not better. And then there were two full appointments where I just decided not to tell her that the entire time I just heard, this is the worst.

[00:14:35] Brett: That’s all you heard or you

[00:14:36] Jeff: it was no, I heard her, but from her machine,

[00:14:39] Christina: I was hearing that.

[00:14:40] you heard, you heard the background bang

[00:14:42] Jeff: and, and she had just gotten a new kitten.

[00:14:44] And so the kitten would jump onto the computer and then like the keyboard would fall down and she’d be like, oh, hold on. I just don’t know what to do. I’m like, oh my God, I have things to talk about. Am I on the clock? Um,

[00:14:55] Brett: there’s

[00:14:56] Christina: you are always on the clock. That’s the

[00:14:57] answer.

[00:14:57] Brett: there’s tape all over my desk to [00:15:00] hold things in place. When the kitten jumps up on it, I’ve just, I’ve accommodated the kitten.

[00:15:05] Jeff: My, um, my other one is not an official therapy relationship. I, I had worked on a project that required traveling to some really amazing remote places, internationally with some really amazing people and doing essentially like retreats. Um, and the woman who led those as a therapist, or was a therapist in England and, and is just on the verge of retiring.

[00:15:27] Kind of work anymore. Anyway, I really loved working with her and I just wanted to be able to talk with her once or twice a month in, in line with kind of what our conversations had been on these retreats and like the fucking Swiss Alps and, well, actually we ended up on a sex call it’s land in California accidentally.

[00:15:43] But, but anyway, this is totally different and it’s amazing. So she is living in like a, like 400 year old cottage in the, you know, like, I don’t know where she is. She’s in rural London, all London, sorry, [00:16:00] everybody right. Rural England. And she has to turn on a generator to do our stuff. She has no power there.

[00:16:08] And, and it’s the most sublime experience. And she actually asks me to bring my computer monitor a little more close, like a little closer so that she can feel like we’re a little bit more looking at each other. Cause my, I have my monitor kind of high. And so she’s really mindful about that stuff. She’s like, I can’t connect right now.

[00:16:26] Can you just try to bring that monitor down or whatever it doesn’t happen much, but how I pay her? No, I don’t pay her. I send money to a man on death row and it’s someone that she’s, that she, she had done a lot of work on death row in the U S way back in the day, um, like group therapy sessions. And it’s someone that she’s stayed in touch with and who I’m now in touch with and, and building a relationship with.

[00:16:54] And, um, and so when I get done, I just go put money on his books and, [00:17:00] uh, and that was the point and he buys amazing paints and sends me a many amazing

[00:17:05] Brett: Oh, I was going to ask, like, what if you knew what kind of stuff? Someone with no outs, like obviously it’s death row. He’s never going to like have a savings account or

[00:17:14] Jeff: Yeah. And he’s mostly in solitary too, so it’s not like he’s swapping stuff with

[00:17:18] Christina: people. So, so it’s yeah. I mean, so, you just like put money in his commissary account or

[00:17:23] Jeff: yes, but there are those who, who hear me say that and say, that’s the, that’s the best way to describe you, Jeff, that I know that you love that interaction.

[00:17:32] And just, I guess, background, I used to actually visit death row in Illinois as part of the Illinois coalition against the death penalty. So I’d like go to dude cells and ask them, you know, how things were, what they needed. Ha you know, are you all caught up on your Maxim issues? I would get asked for maximum a lot.

[00:17:49] Um, anyway, remember Maxim, like it’s like,

[00:17:52] it’s like Cinemax.

[00:17:53] Sponsor: SimpliSafe

[00:17:53] Brett: and in fact that that’ll be a great lead in to our next, uh, but [00:18:00] speaking of maximum security,

[00:18:03] Jeff: Nice.

[00:18:04] Brett: Today’s today’s episode of over-tired is brought to you by simply safe home security. Have you ever wanted to know what’s happening at your home when you’re not there? We’re big fans of the new wireless outdoor camera system from simply safe. It lets you see what’s happening outside, right from your phone and alert.

[00:18:22] Anyone approaches. So you always know who’s there simply safe has everything you need to keep your home safe from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Simply safe as monitored monitored. 24 7 by professionals. Ready to dispatch police firefighters or EMTC your home simply safe has less than $1 a day and you can set it up in around 30 minutes.

[00:18:45] There are no long-term contracts or commitments. You can customize the perfect system for your home. And just a few [email protected] slash overtired. That’s spelled S I M P L I S a F E [00:19:00] go today and claim a free indoor security camera. Plus 20% off with interactive monitor monitoring. I can’t say monitoring.

[00:19:08] Go to simply safe.com/overtired and get your 20% off and your free indoor security camera.

[00:19:17] Back to the Future. Or the 90s.

[00:19:17] Jeff: Um, interacting with monitoring. Yeah, it does get a little tripped up in

[00:19:21] there.

[00:19:22] Brett: In the last episode, we, it was mostly about the nineties and, and I would love, we can’t fully recapture the magic. It was, it was an amazing that first hour of the chat. Uh, we, we covered some stuff that I dunno. We’ll see, we’ll see if we recapture any of it, but I’m happy to see where this conversation goes, but I want to start it off by saying I got, uh, the nineties by Chuck close to men.

[00:19:52] And like the audio book was released when, when we recorded last week, we were talking about the [00:20:00] potential of it coming out. Now I have it, and I’m going to a couple of chapters into it. And it’s amazing.

[00:20:05] Jeff: Wait a minute. Do do me a favor. Just read me a little bit from the back so I can get my head in the space about this book.

[00:20:11] Brett: I don’t, I don’t have that.

[00:20:13] Jeff: Oh, you have the audio

[00:20:14] Brett: I have the audio, but in

[00:20:15] Jeff: Go ahead. And just, I’m going to need you to show me. the back of your.

[00:20:18] Brett: It’s like listening to Tom Robbins on an audio book. Like there all these sentences you want to highlight and be like, holy shit. That’s just a great sentence. Um, and, and the audio book, you just, you can’t do that. And I kind of am thinking about also getting a paperback of it, or at least a Kindle one I can highlight and.

[00:20:38] Christina: Yeah. I find that I do that a lot where I buy, cause I don’t, I okay. As much as many physical things that I have in my life, the one area where I, I, unless there’s no other choice because it’s out of print or something that I’ve like completely cut out, unless it’s like a really special book. And like, it has got a reason to be, um, you know, in, in print, like there are a lot of, there’s a lot of photography or [00:21:00] something.

[00:21:00] I don’t buy paper books anymore. I just don’t. Um, I just don’t have the space for them. And, and it’s one of those weird things. Like I still will buy physical media for certain things, but I won’t buy buy books, but I very frequently buy the Kendall version and the audible version for those reasons. Cause I like to be able to read, but.

[00:21:17] Brett: So, did you get the nineties?

[00:21:19] Christina: Yes.

[00:21:20] Brett: Did you start it yet?

[00:21:21] Christina: Um, I got through, like, I read like the first essay.

[00:21:24] Brett: Okay. Which one was that? Remind me.

[00:21:27] Christina: No, I don’t remember. Now I’m going to have to

[00:21:29] Brett: Okay. So the one I was listening to last night was on Nirvana and, and, uh, Pearl jam as kind of a side story,

[00:21:39] Christina: Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[00:21:40] Go on.

[00:21:41] Brett: Uh, it was, it was it’s fascinating. He is, he is really good at capturing the nineties in a way that, like, I remember all of the things he’s talking about, but I never thought about it

[00:21:53] Christina: Yes.

[00:21:54] Brett: this.

[00:21:55] Like he describes gen X is really what the book is about.

[00:21:59] Christina: That’s really what the [00:22:00] book is about. is about

[00:22:00] Jenna.

[00:22:01] Brett: disaffected, uh, apathetic, uh, people who, if you told them that they were apathetic, they, their response would be to dismiss you. Like it’s in, in, in, in the process confirming that they are like apathetic. And that describes my generation really well.

[00:22:21] Christina: Yeah. In the what’s so interesting to me is that’s not my generation, but it was the culture that I grew up obsessed with. Right. So, so like, it’s this interesting thing, cause we’re going to talk about the real world. I think we’ll be our perfect segues from this. Um, and, um, and, and, and the thing is, um, like, like I grew up like idolizing gen X, but I knew that I was not in it.

[00:22:45] Right. Like, and I, and I knew that that, that I, I, I knew it was a moment even as it was happening, because it was basically over, I would say like a lot of like that era, the nineties was probably over by like 96. Um, but like my formative years as a little kid were. [00:23:00] Obsessed and like looking up and like idolizing this idea of, you know, in kind of this apathy and I, and I loved it.

[00:23:08] And I think that actually what separates, like my generation, like the millennials from like genetics is that I can’t imagine that gen X ever would’ve idolized or like been excited. You know what I mean? By like a prior generation, right?

[00:23:23] Brett: Okay. So he does point out that. In reality bites, the music that they most idolized is from the seventies. And

[00:23:32] Christina: makes

[00:23:32] Brett: most of their kitsch comes from the

[00:23:35] Christina: seventies

[00:23:36] Yes.

[00:23:37] Brett: and that the nineties generation, uh, there were two things that they, they wished it was still the seventies and that they made a, um, an art form out of, uh, not selling out, but selling out,

[00:23:54] Christina: Right. Yes. Which, which is, which is the thing that I, whereas my generation, there was never any qualms and there is [00:24:00] even less for, for like the zoomers like gen Z. There’s even less like, worry about selling out. Like, it’s almost like if anything that you get your bag is, is the thing like get, get, you know, cap like that is the whole thing.

[00:24:10] Like you’re excited by selling out my generation. we weren’t necessarily excited by selling out, but we accepted that it was going to happen. And we weren’t like mad about it,

[00:24:19] whereas

[00:24:20] Brett: didn’t even, we weren’t even able to fully define what selling out what.

[00:24:25] Christina: you weren’t right.

[00:24:26] Brett: anyone who succeeded,

[00:24:28] Christina: Well, that was the thing, right. anyone who succeeded, but the one interesting thing, and this has carried on and, and, and I think that this is why like gen X has been. So even though it’s, it’s a, it’s the smallest generation is it’s in some ways kind of the briefest and, and

[00:24:40] Brett: left out of infographics. All of this.

[00:24:42] Christina: I was, I was going to say, it’s the forgotten generation, but it’s also, even though it’s left out of those things, I think from a cultural level is one of those impactful.

[00:24:50] And, and part of that, I think is a, that the, the millennials who, you know, the biggest generation since the baby boomers, like looked up and idolized and took that as our [00:25:00] cultural cues. Right. Um, and, and so it’s, had this, this outsized impact, but I think the other thing is, you know, it was smart in the sense, like, I think about this a lot, and I think I’ve even written essays about this, probably even in college, I wrote essays about this, which tells you how long ago it was, was like the gen X-ers were the first ones who.

[00:25:20] Really embraced nostalgia and the seventies thing is a huge part of that, right? Like there is all the, the, the recreation of the, um, um, uh, what was it? The, the, you know, the I’m disabil no, no, no school house rocks, you know, you know, you know, the, the, the school house rock things and, and the covers of other, you know, seventies classics and like the kitchen element, but there was like this, this big wave of nostalgia and like, embracing that and wanting to go back to that era.

[00:25:47] And in my

[00:25:48] Brett: I was going to say it’s nostalgia from the perspective that everything sucks now. And it was better. Not just like, things were really fun back then, but like, everything is shit now and everything was [00:26:00] better before.

[00:26:01] Christina: And, and, and with my generation, and this is especially true, I think even the generation after, but certainly with my generation, we all had this like, Bo nostalgia in the sense that we are established for shit that we never even experienced. So we’re an established for like, it it’s like a manufactured nostalgia and, and which is why like millennial bait completely is.

[00:26:22] And, and, and this goes to, to zoomers a little bit too, but like total millennial bait is stuff like. The saved by the bell pop-up restaurant that I went to in, um, west Hollywood, where they recreated the max and the sensitive of the bell, and you paid like $80 or something, you know, for your prefect, the dinner.

[00:26:40] It was great. And, and I, I was very excited to get, to go to, to do it. I happened to be in LA early because there was a snow storm in Seattle and I needed to go to Los Angeles, uh, to go to, um, uh, Australia. So I flew out a day early, went to Disneyland. And then at night, like had like reservations at the pop-up with my friend, [00:27:00] Donna.

[00:27:00] We went to the max and then we, um, got on like a 11:30 PM flight to Sydney. So, uh, great, great, great trip. But, um, you know, but that’s the sort of thing, like where they’re selling you back. This, this stuff that you’re not even sure, quite sure what you’re gonna salary about. Like, I was reading this, this trend piece of all things.

[00:27:19] Um, in the times, the other day, uh, the American girl cafe in New York city, like influencer, like a old, like younger millennials, like people who were like in their late twenties, early thirties are going to the American girl cafe, not even ironically, but like excitedly and like bringing their old dolls with them and then taking photos and are like very into it.

[00:27:40] And like, that’s the thing. Like we have like this, like nostalgia oftentimes for, for the past that, that people can sell it back to us. And we know they’re selling it back to us and we will buy it and we will spend so much money to rebuy shit from our childhood. Um, but, but it’s not in the guise of like, everything was better than which I think was the genetics thing.

[00:27:59] It’s like the, [00:28:00] oh my God, I love this. And I remember this kind of thing, right? Like.

[00:28:03] Brett: like gen X wouldn’t, gen X didn’t want to be marketed to, um, like they wouldn’t, if it felt like someone was wrapping packaging something and then selling it to you, that was like, that was not cool.

[00:28:18] Christina: Right, right. Right. Which whereas like, yeah,

[00:28:21] Brett: It’s still isn’t that’s still part of my personality.

[00:28:23] Christina: Oh no, I totally, I mean, and whereas part of mine is I’m fully aware that I’m being marketed to, but if it’s cool, I’m like, yeah, I don’t care. I want it.

[00:28:31] Brett: Jeff, did you ever see reality bites?

[00:28:34] Jeff: I did not. I did not see it. I don’t know why

[00:28:37] Brett: It’s okay. It is. Very gen X movie, but it was, it was written by people who wanted to market to gen X. And there’s the, the essay Chuck Klosterman his essay on it is it’s awesome. Uh, he talks about how the, the decision that would own a writer makes between Ethan Hawke and, uh, [00:29:00] and Ben Stiller for gen X, Ethan Hawke was the right decision.

[00:29:04] And Ben stellar was the bad guy for almost any generation before or after

[00:29:10] Christina: I wrapped her. It’s

[00:29:11] Brett: made the wrong choice.

[00:29:12] Christina: Right. Totally. And, and it’s interesting because, um, Linda, Linda Holmes, who does a NPR is like a, um, a happy hour or whatever. Like she wrote an essay. I remember, and she is gen X number. She wrote an essay years and years and years and years ago, um, about that. And like, she was like lamenting, you know, like she was watching it, I guess, more as an adult and was like, why would, why would you pick Ethan Hawke?

[00:29:34] Um, but at the time remembering that, like, she felt like Ethan Hawke was the only choice and, and my friend, Heidi, who is gen X. Um, and, uh, although she likes to, think of herself as not gen X. And I’m like, I’m sorry, how do you are completely gen X? Like we’ve had this discussion too, where like, in that moment, in that time of her life, like, that’s the only decision you make.

[00:29:51] Whereas like, he’s not like Ben Stiller, invincible directed the film too. I think he actually did a really good job with it. I think it was his first directorial, um, [00:30:00] uh, film. Um, and that that’s when he thought that he was going to be a director and not like the superstar he became, um, Like the character, there’s nothing bad about him.

[00:30:09] You know, he’s not a villain, but yet he is kind of portrayed as being like it’s

[00:30:13] Brett: to gen X he’s, the definition must sell out

[00:30:16] Christina: Totally.

[00:30:17] A 100.

[00:30:17] Brett: else. He’s just a successful, hardworking guy.

[00:30:21] Christina: Right to ’em. Uh, my favorite joke from that movie still is when, um, uh, Jeannine Gruffalos character points out that Evian spelled backwards is naive.

[00:30:31] Brett: Yeah.

[00:30:34] Jeff: I, so I wanna, I wanna add a different sort of layer to this conversation about the nineties, because last week, um, and now this conversation I’m listening to right now, like have it’s really stirred something in me, which is that there are these feelings about that decades.

[00:30:52] I’m 43, I’m 43 I’m 47. Which I’m happy to be. [00:31:00] I, my my last year of high school was 1993, so like right, right in there. Um, and the thing about nostalgia, that’s kind of interesting to me, ties to something close to him and says, he, he apparently sort of defines the end of the nineties as being, um, nine 11.

[00:31:16] And, and I actually think, you know, I had a ton of nostalgia for the seventies. We had an amazing, um, store here. We still do, but it’s like a, kind of a weird chain now, But it was called Ragstock and you could go downtown and go to Ragstock or uptown. And what they carried was tons of like surplus clothes.

[00:31:32] They carried the kind of clothes that probably now are likely to be shipped over to poor countries where you like, see people wearing a champion shirt.

[00:31:40] Brett: they charged enough for them that it wasn’t a good.

[00:31:45] Jeff: But it created it as a bit of a sideline, but it created such an interesting fashion thing for us, because while as like, okay, so whereas in Seattle, like we all started to identify Seattle with the flannel and the baggy jeans and all that stuff [00:32:00] right here. What was going on was basically dictated by what was for sale at Ragstock.

[00:32:05] And so Ragstock sent like, Ragstock sold a bunch of army surplus clothes. So there were a lot of like camel pants. They sold a ton of scrubs, like just like the regular old blue scrubs. And so like everybody, I knew their pajama pants were like blue scrubs. Right. And like, it was such an amazing thing because it was just one place.

[00:32:25] They didn’t have any other places. And it just dictated what, like the nineties looked like until, um, until it really became. The flannel or whatever. Anyway, that’s like, you can just edit that out. Cause it’s not even that interesting a sidebar, but what I want it to say was the, um, the nostalgia for the seventies, similar to Clusterman saying that, um, the nineties ended in on nine 11, like the seventies kind of began in 68 for us.

[00:32:52] Not, not for the people who lived it. Right. Like they still had to fucked up years to live before they could go turn the page. [00:33:00] Right.

[00:33:00] Christina: Well, I mean, cause a lot of people feel like the seventies started with with, well, I mean I’m maybe 60, but I would say, well, yeah, the war, I would save it. But also, I mean, I don’t, most people agree like the end of the sixties was like the, the Manson murders.

[00:33:11] Jeff: I could see that. Yeah. I mean, I could see that I could see feeling that way. Like I wasn’t, I was totally tuned into that. Um, but for me it was like, It was like everything, the whole timeline of the seventies, for me, beginning in 68, was that it was about sort of a revolution going off.

[00:33:29] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I can see that.

[00:33:31] And, and, and that would, and I, and I think maybe like the final nail would be like, um, the, the, the, the, the Manson, um, uh, murders. Um, I always also think about it and look, I mean, this was, you know, uh, decades before I was born. So like, I don’t have direct like impact or whatnot, but the, uh, um, one of my favorite films is, um, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid.

[00:33:51] And, and that film is a metaphor for the end of the

[00:33:54] sixties.

[00:33:55] Jeff: I’ll have, you know, I started watching that movie last week for like the 50th

[00:33:58] Brett: Did you finish it [00:34:00] though? Cause it’s, it’s a very different movie. If you don’t say the last in.

[00:34:03] Christina: That’s true.

[00:34:05] Jeff: It’s true. But I’ve seen it So much that it doesn’t matter,

[00:34:08] but, but that, that came on. I just am just Wikipedia. And this that came out in September of 69 and, and I’m certainly not the first person who said this,