202: Fight For Your (TV) Music Rights

Brett and Christina

[00:00:00] 02Brett: [00:00:00] welcome to episode 202 of Overtired with Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra how’s it going, Christina?

[00:00:07] 01Christina: [00:00:07] going pretty good. How are you, Brett?

[00:00:09] 02Brett: [00:00:09] I’m I’m good. I’m figuring out this, uh, uh, episode numbering thing. I think it’s kind of standard practice to like season episode, right?

[00:00:18] 01Christina: [00:00:18] yeah, I think so. I think so, but it is weird cause we’re like, Almost officially, we’re not rebooting the show, but we’re rebooting the show. Like it’s still the same show. We’re just going to be consistent again. And so, because really, if we’re being like going by like TV seasons in like American TV, this would be like seasons six or something,

[00:00:39]02Brett: [00:00:39] right.

[00:00:40] 01Christina: [00:00:40] but

[00:00:41] 02Brett: [00:00:41] If it was Netflix TV, we’d be on like season 20.

[00:00:44] 01Christina: [00:00:44] Exactly. But you know what I do kind of feel like we’re like British TV. Cause we’re, we’re kind of like a like Sherlock or whatever. Like we come out, you know, like once a year or once every three years.

[00:00:55]02Brett: [00:00:55] Yeah. A BBC special,

[00:00:58] 01Christina: [00:00:58] Yeah. That’s exactly it. That’s exactly [00:01:00] it

[00:01:00] 02Brett: [00:01:00] BBC mini series.

[00:01:01] 01Christina: [00:01:01] that’s exactly it. Except now. Like I think that we’re going to be consistent again. So that’s really exciting.

[00:01:06] 02Brett: [00:01:06] Yes, this is two weeks in a row.

[00:01:08] 01Christina: [00:01:08] I know,

[00:01:09] 02Brett: [00:01:09] When was the last time we did two weeks in a row. It’s been years. Yeah. This is great news. Um, and I’m sure that the people have been anxiously waiting to hear what I thought of folklore after a second listen.

[00:01:24] 01Christina: [00:01:24] Yes.

[00:01:25] 02Brett: [00:01:25] I feel like that should be the central crux of this episode.

[00:01:28] We’re probably not going to spend as much time as a Taylor podcast should on it, but that said, I went back in with your kind of doctoral thesis in mind. Um, and I gave it a, another more serious listen and I did come to appreciate it. Uh, she does like the, I didn’t pay enough attention or as much attention as I should have to the lyrics on the first listen.

[00:01:55] Cause I was so bored with the music. Like it’s not [00:02:00] my tempo.

[00:02:01] 01Christina: [00:02:01] right.

[00:02:02] 02Brett: [00:02:02] But the, the kind of the biting lines and the, the, um, axed is still there. And, and I can appreciate that.

[00:02:13] 01Christina: [00:02:13] Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, Taylor says fucking out, like it’s kind of amazing and like, it, it, uh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. This, this for our Taylor Swift podcast makes me really relieved and. Yeah, I will. I will agree with you if you were somebody who was not into, you know, the, the more kind of low key kind of vibe, if you’d like the bangers, this is not that album as I, I’m not gonna repeat my doctoral thesis as you, as you framed it.

[00:02:41] But I am glad that, that you were still able to find like the core tailors stuff that, that you could appreciate. I will be interested to see if at some point, if people try to do remixes or even if she does some point, because I really do feel like some of these songs could [00:03:00] be turned into like her traditional kind of like pop bangers.

[00:03:04] If it just had a different instrumentation, different production.

[00:03:09] 02Brett: [00:03:09] What she needs is to have cave play. Do a cover of like exile. Did you, did you, I didn’t send you, I promise to send you a list of K Flay tracks too. Like, uh, an intro to K Flay and I didn’t, did you get a chance to find any on your own.

[00:03:29] 01Christina: [00:03:29] I did. I didn’t spend like a lot of time listening to kaflooey, but I’d previously that I think I’d mostly just kind of heard, like I, you know, the song that was on like the, the birds of prey soundtrack. And, uh, but I did listen to some stuff and I like it. I mean, I’m not saying it’s like, it’s not like maybe like my favorite, favorite, but she’s good.

[00:03:49] 02Brett: [00:03:49] She is, um, I would recommend blood in the cut as like the intro track. It’s a newer track of hers and it is, [00:04:00] um, it’s got lines like Mick, uh, it’s doll. Something do it soon. It’s too quiet in this room. I need noise. And it speaks to me in a way that more mature grownup lyrics never do. She has a PhD in and I think psychology, uh, she she’s yeah, very smart person, but she does a wonderful job of, um, writing lyrics that speak to the, uh, deeper anxieties and emotions.

[00:04:34]In a, in a XD sort of way in the way that I appreciate Taylor, Swift’s less mature axed.

[00:04:41] 01Christina: [00:04:41] No. I mean, Taylor Swift is petty as fuck, which I think is both of our favorite parts about her. So yeah, I mean, I think that you can be very smart, but you could also have those like less mature things. Also. I don’t know. I’ve had, I, I. There are all these theories that I’ve read, uh, from like a [00:05:00] psychologists and other people.

[00:05:00] And it just sort of makes sense in some ways that, you know, USIC, that you love when you’re a teenager can remain kind of the, the music that you love your whole life. Right? Because it reminds you of that time in your life. It’s kind of it’s nostalgia, but I think it’s also kind of forms, you know, sort of the things that like your brain goes to, to feel a certain way.

[00:05:19] So it’s more than just installer. I think it like does something to, you know, like. Your your endorphins or, or to, you know, your, your, your synopsis or whatever. And I think there’s truth in that. And I think that’s why even when I discover newer types of music and other stuff, if it reminds me, if it makes me feel like, you know, when I was 16, I I’m going to love it.

[00:05:44] You know? And I, and. In my mind, I still am 16. So, you know, in my mind, I’m, I’m never turning 30. So, uh, that’s, that’s like fine. But I think that for a lot of people like it, because I see this all the time when I go to concerts. Cause now you know that [00:06:00] I’m also becoming an old, you know, everybody around you, you know, at the concerts, you’re like, Holy.

[00:06:06] Shit. We are also old now. And sometimes I’m like significantly younger than the other people there. And you’re like, Oh yeah. Okay. They are here because they loved this when, when they were this age, you know, and they still love that band and they still want that moment. And. I don’t know for me, I try to, I guess, hold onto my youth by trying to continue to discuss our newer types of music and other like newer artists just to like, be like, stay with it.

[00:06:33] Even if it’s, even if it’s core stuff, still just reminded me of being younger.

[00:06:38] 02Brett: [00:06:38] I think that’s almost just a personality type. I think some people are very quick to, I think even by their mid twenties, they’ve already decided what good music was and they’re not interested in new music. I think, I think those are the people that are like new music sucks, everything sounds the same these days and they’re not [00:07:00] open to it.

[00:07:00] And I think some people well into their old age. Are willing. And maybe I think everyone, at some point hits a point where they’re just like, I don’t have the emotional capacity to bother finding new music anymore, but I definitely have not at that point.

[00:07:16] 01Christina: [00:07:16] No, no. I mean, I think that it, yeah, I think that it is actually, it’s weird. I think it’s harder. And like the Spotify era and with Apple music and everything, cause you have the whole, it’s like the whole fallacy of choice thing, right. Or they’re not a policy choice, the paradox of choice thing. Yeah. The paradox of choice thing.

[00:07:30] It’s like you have access to everything it’s overwhelming. And so rather than trying new things, you just go with what, you know, and in to some degree, I think that’s why, so the algorithm. Playlists are bad because on the one hand, like they’re great. Like I love the, my favorites playlist on Apple music every week.

[00:07:50] It’s just, it’s fantastic. It’s always just

[00:07:53] 02Brett: [00:07:53] Cause it’s your favorite?

[00:07:54] 01Christina: [00:07:54] Exactly, but it’s, but it’s like an eclectic, it’s a good, different mix of different songs of different songs each week. [00:08:00] But I’m not discovering new things. Right. And in Spotify, does I have some stuff that it’s recommended to me that I’ve discovered like some bands that I just really love and, and that’s been like a really good, you know, experience or whatever, but, um, I do kind of wish that they would apply those algorithm things to just being like, Hey, here’s brand new shit.

[00:08:21] Right? Like. Based on what you’ve listened to when other stuff, and that would, that would at least make the whole paradox of choice thing. Maybe a little bit easier. Cause otherwise, you know, you just have to go based on whatever, some of our, on some of the top playlist and the curated playlist and that’s fine.

[00:08:37] Right? Like, I mean, that’s basically modern radio and I’m cool with that. It’s just, um, it, depending on what you are into and what moods you have, like those. Those, you know, like rap caviar or whatever, it might not be like your jam.

[00:08:53] 02Brett: [00:08:53] here’s why, here’s why I choose Spotify. Um, it, every day it makes me four playlists [00:09:00] and every one of those platelets usually includes one or two, uh, bands or artists that I either had forgotten about or had never heard of. And it’s a great way. Like it’s a lot of my favorite, most played songs mixed in with related songs, uh, within the same genre that I maybe haven’t heard and their release radar, uh, actually.

[00:09:24] Find artists that are similar to ones that I do follow and plays their newest stuff. And I have found all the new music. Yeah. I have discovered in the last few years is either come from Spotify algorithms or by using dang, um, should while watching TV and movies. Uh, and, um, I love a great soundtrack and I’ll, I’ll just turn on auto Shazam where it just like tags, every song it hears.

[00:09:52] Uh, when I wa like umbrella Academy, did you watch

[00:09:55] 01Christina: [00:09:55] yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:57] 02Brett: [00:09:57] to that was just great. I mean, I knew [00:10:00] most of the song, which is probably why I thought it was a great soundtrack, but there were some cool ones in there.

[00:10:05] 01Christina: [00:10:05] Yeah, no, I agree. I, I, um, I liked that, that soundtrack a lot too. And yeah, I mean, I actually, I I’m with you. I do a similar thing with Shizam and when I watched shows it’s weird. Um, You know, in the last, like it’s been, you know, more than 20 years now since like, you know, TV producers have, or since music, producers have used TV as a way to kind of get new music out to people and as, as a breaking ground for that.

[00:10:29] And in some ways I don’t think that some of the stuff I, like, I don’t feel like new artists and stuff is broken the same way that it was. I almost feel like it’s so competitive that it just has become like another like outlet that. You know, um, and our groups kind of go after. And so it loses some of its resonance.

[00:10:46] Whereas I feel like at peak, like, you know, early two thousands TV where you had these amazing music, uh, you know, uh, producers on the show is just like really going deep and finding [00:11:00] stuff. Uh, also I think, you know, I don’t know, it’s just different, but I still, I, with you, I use Shazam and discover stuff that way all the time.

[00:11:08] Um, although it’s interesting because I do find. How repetitive some of the songs have become that. And, and, and

[00:11:17] 02Brett: [00:11:17] In what way?

[00:11:17] 01Christina: [00:11:17] meaning, I will see the same tracks over and over again, across different shows that are even kind of different. I mean, sometimes there’s similar shows, but sometimes they’re, they’re different and it’s just like, even like, A number of years ago, you wouldn’t see that it’d be one of those things.

[00:11:35] It’s like, okay. The phrase has been used on Grey’s anatomy. So that’s not going to be used on another show now it’s, it’s like, it doesn’t matter. Even if the exact same song has become, you know, it was. Kind of broken on one thing. It’s like, okay, another show we’ll we’ll license it. Anyway, which is interesting.

[00:11:54] Um, we’ve talked about this before, but, and this isn’t on our list of stuff to talk about, but I am kind [00:12:00] of, uh, interested in, in your take on this. Cause we both watch a lot of Netflix and we both like, have we talked last week about how we are rewatching shows and the thing that. You know, God, we finally gotten to the point, at least in the DVD era where it felt like this was fixed, but music rights, man, like fucking music rights being different on shows not lasting.

[00:12:26] When you go back to rewatch them is the worst thing in the world. God.

[00:12:32] 02Brett: [00:12:32] What do give me an example. I’m not sure what you’re talking

[00:12:34] 01Christina: [00:12:34] Okay. Alright. Okay. So my, my, my like example of this always is Dawson’s Creek, right? Okay. Yeah. Make fun of me, roast me whatever, but it had some of the best music period, and I did discover some bands that I still love today and just really good shit.

[00:12:48] Like Damien rice is, uh, who I don’t think you’d be into, but he’s one of my favorite artists I heard. Like, I think they played him on Dawson’s Creek years before. It like the album hadn’t even come to the U S [00:13:00] yet. And, and there are other things they changed. So much of the music on the DVD releases because they didn’t want pay for the rights and they didn’t have the contracts written in such a way so that, you know, the, the, the music licenses would extend to the physical media releases.

[00:13:18] So the first season had all the original music, and then in subsequent years they had to cut so much of it. The, I don’t want to wait, like Paula Cole song, like the theme song, like the defining thing of that show. Is not in the DVD releases and it’s also not in the streaming releases and the streaming releases it’s even worse because the first season on DVD at least had all the original music, they replaced it, um, for the streaming stuff, uh, you know, versus what was on the DVD.

[00:13:45] And so I spent, uh, I spent many, many, like, I mean, it was, it was a it was a multiyear process to track that down. But I was, I had to find. Somebody [00:14:00] basically in France, and this was probably six or seven years ago at this point who had amassed collection of every episode of Dawson’s Creek with the original music in like high enough quality that it wasn’t bad.

[00:14:13] So some of it was, you know, um, It was basically usually like, you know, kind of like expedited or, you know, if that had been available, uh, although by the time that show went off the air issue, six, four, really wasn’t a thing. So talking like ABI files, whatever, but usually like internet, you know, downloads or, you know, like high quality captures from, you know, the late nineties, early two thousands.

[00:14:36] Of the show. Um, so these weren’t like, like VHS, uh, you know, transfers. These were usually captured from broadcast and then, and then digitized, um, Like I had to find somebody who had a collection of every episode with the original music and it’s like, you know, 40 or 50 gigabytes and I’ve got it backed up multiple places.

[00:14:57] But yeah, we was a thing. Like I found this guy in France and he [00:15:00] had actually, you’re the one who told him about this thing. Remember that, that, that hard drive that they sold, that you could share it with other people, like it would share some of your bandwidth where it would basically like live online.

[00:15:12] And it was like a hard drive that also was kind of a Dropbox thing. Okay. So he had one of those and he was in

[00:15:21] 02Brett: [00:15:21] was that called?

[00:15:22] 01Christina: [00:15:22] What was that called?

[00:15:23]02Brett: [00:15:23] Well, not the transporter.

[00:15:26] 01Christina: [00:15:26] That’s exactly

[00:15:26] 02Brett: [00:15:26] Was it?

[00:15:27] 01Christina: [00:15:27] Yes, it was the transport. So he had one of those, but he was in France and his internet connection. Wasn’t great. And this is like 50 gigabytes and I’m, you know, in New York. And so that the pings or whatever bad. So I was connected to his Transporter, but it took forever to get that download.

[00:15:43] I think I like ended up pay palling him like a hundred bucks or something, you know, just because I like wanted to help. Yeah. Then I think like we might’ve made a torrent, but yeah, it isn’t widely available. Like it’s one of those things that even. I probably should put it on Usenet or something because I would, I would like more of the public to have [00:16:00] access to, but anyway, it was, it was a, uh, an exhaustive process to find it.

[00:16:04] And also like, um, you know, I, I paid money for this after I’ve already bought the entire series, not just on DVD, but I also bought the blue Ray because it was super cheap or whatever. And, or actually, no, not the Blueray, they rerelease the whole thing that way, but I also have it on, on iTunes or whatever with the shitty, you know, music inserts and, um, Anyway, like it was this, this ridiculous process, but I can’t watch the show with the wrong music and scrubs, which is a show that I’ve started rewatching because I really loved scrubs and it holds up.

[00:16:37] And that’s another one where it has like the best music, the, the show creator, bill Lawrence and his wife, uh, Krista Miller, um, picked a lot of the music, his wife in particular. And she was also, um, uh, an actress on the show. And she’s also on, um, um, Uh, his other show, um, what was the one with, uh, Cougar town?

[00:16:57] Um,

[00:16:58] 02Brett: [00:16:58] I’m watching that

[00:16:59] 01Christina: [00:16:59] Yeah. Yeah, [00:17:00] yeah, yeah. Okay. So, so she’s, she’s like the best friend, um, kind of caustic once. Okay. So she’s great. So she picked a lot of the music, so, so she pitch a lot of the music for scrubs and actually for coop, for Cougar town as well. And like Josh, not Josh, Zach Braff always got a lot of credit for the music.

[00:17:16] And he certainly played a role because he had like similar music sensibilities. And he obviously did like the garden state soundtrack and stuff, but like, it was really like Krista Miller who. Picked a lot of that stuff. And the music is just fantastic and Disney did pay for the rights for DVD. So if you have the DVD release scrubs, um, there are a couple of like missing things.

[00:17:38] Like I think that guided by voices wouldn’t give the right for one song in season one. And there is like maybe one or two other examples. And in that case, like they knew it and they picked really good. Substitutions, like, not as good as hold on hope, but a good substitution and you know, it’s fine. But when [00:18:00] it came time to put it on Netflix or Hulu or whatever, they didn’t pay for it like they did for, I think maybe a certain period of time.

[00:18:07] And then after a certain period of time, they’re like, yeah, we’re not paying for this anymore. So if you watch scrubs on streaming, It loses the original music. Now, if you buy it on iTunes, it has it. But, uh, you know, if you’re watching it on streaming, the music has been changed. And at this point, the way it’s been changed, it hasn’t been done by the producers who, you know, at least when they had to do like the, the couple of minor changes in season one, like when that came out on DVD, like 15 years ago, um, He like shows a replacement that would fit in this case.

[00:18:41] It’s just like people using, you know, whatever sort of generic music they can get. It’s it’s not music. I mean, it has voices in it, but it’s like not bands that you would know or, or anything like that. It’s just like going through, you know, it’s just, it’s just penny pinchers being like, okay, we’re just going to insert these things in the cues.

[00:18:58] And, you know, it takes [00:19:00] you out of it cause you know, the editing, the dubbing on that, isn’t perfect. And so you can sometimes hear the different, you know, outros or whatever in different things. And, um, and I dunno, it just ruins the whole show, like to go back and watch it that way. So it makes me grateful that I have all the DVDs and that, you know, use that and other things for me to get digitized copies of my DVDs faster than it would be for me to manually rip them.

[00:19:22] You

[00:19:23] 02Brett: [00:19:23] Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. But in a case like Dawson’s Creek, how often are you watching Dawson’s Creek? Why can’t this just exist as a, a good memory and not a multiyear process of tracking down in a manner, very akin to people who demand vinyl releases of, of their favorite bands and they won’t accept anything.

[00:19:47] That isn’t the original. They don’t want to hear any remastered tracks. Everything has to be the way it was originally. What, why is that an obsession for you? Tell us more.

[00:19:58] 01Christina: [00:19:58] okay. [00:20:00] Because not that I’m going to rewatch it all the time, of course. But because if I do want to see an episode or if I do want to see something, the minute that the song queue is wrong, because. Dawson’s Creek in particular, uh, all those scrubs too, but like Dawson’s Creek in particular is a show that I watched so many times as a kid, like a teenager, like I would, you know, record every episode and then I watch it and, you know, I know those cues, I know those moments.

[00:20:25] And so the minute. That they don’t have the right musical cue in like a key scene, like, and, and like, uh, or song that like even songs that were on the damn soundtrack, right? Like, I mean, that’s what really got me with the DVD releases. I was like, Sony, you, you paid for this song for the soundtracks that you put out and you.

[00:20:44] Put a replacement on the DVD release. Cause it didn’t sell as well as you wanted or whatever, like the sucks. So for me, it just completely takes me out of the show and I can’t even enjoy if I wanted to rewatch it. Like Dawson’s Creek, I’m obviously gonna watch less than something like scrubs, but scrubs is like a good comedy.

[00:20:59] It’s a good [00:21:00] thing to tune in and see. And even in syndication now, they. Have, you know, changed the music. And so if you just have it on as like background or something, like it sucks. Like I I’m happy that the OC, which has also some of the best music ever and, and the, the, the music supervisor on that is she did Roswell and she did Buffy and she did Grey’s anatomy and she did all the Shonda Rhimes shows and she’s like, I interviewed her when I was in college, she was very kind to me to agree, to talk to me about like her role as a music supervisor and breaking bands and stuff.

[00:21:33] She’s like a master, but like the OC, you know, like broke big indie bands and like was legitimately like, had like actual impact on the, on the top. You know, on billboard and stuff. Um, they at least cause that’s was on Hulu and now it’s on HBO, max. Yeah. They at least did not like lose any of the music. Yeah.

[00:21:53] Warner brothers is paying for it. They had it on, they had it by the time that show was out, DVDs were already a thing. So it was [00:22:00] written into the contracts. But you know, at some point if like the, the people at, at Warner media. Decide, they don’t want to pay, you know, for death cab for cutie anymore or, or whatever, like, you know, or journey, like, you know, you could see that going away and that’s just, I don’t know.

[00:22:16] That’s, it’s shitty. It’s just, I mean, I don’t know, like, did you ever watch w KRP in Cincinnati?

[00:22:23] 02Brett: [00:22:23] No.

[00:22:23] 01Christina: [00:22:23] Okay. So I obviously like it ended, I think before I was born, but you know, it was, it takes place in like a seventies radio station. And so they played a lot of like real, like classic rock music and as a comedy sitcom and in syndication again, because it was a different time in the eighties, nineties, and people didn’t realize how much money they could make off of the licensing shit.

[00:22:46]The original music was there, but when they, it was held up on release for, for home media and for streaming for like, Years and years and years, and years and years. And by the time it finally came out, you know, with the sound like stuff, just [00:23:00] for people who’d remember the show, it was ruined. The wonder years was another one where I think Time-Life did finally do a DVD release of the wonder years.

[00:23:08] Cause you know, they used the Beatles. Like they had like. A big, a much bigger production budget, and then what you would get for like a primetime show today. And they, you know, had rights and use like the biggest, like, you know, essential songs from like the sixties and stuff on that show. And Time-Life got the rights for most of it for their home DVD release, but I don’t even think they were able to get everything.

[00:23:32] And, and certainly when the wonder years has been on various streaming things, you don’t hear the Beatles and. You know, like it, I don’t know, it just takes you out of it. Um, that’s always like more classic shows, but even like, I could imagine, like if I was rewatching. Like the office didn’t really use, uh, popular music and community, I guess didn’t either, but you know, but you’re watching those things and it goes away.

[00:23:53] Like, that’s just, it, it makes me sad, not just for me, if I want to rewatch it. Cause it will take me out of the show, [00:24:00] but it also makes me sad for like anybody who’s discovering it. Cause they don’t, they don’t get the, they don’t get the experience that the producers want it. They don’t get the all Toral intent.

[00:24:09] 02Brett: [00:24:09] And then, and then you get to be like you kids wouldn’t understand. You don’t understand where this came from and what this means. I, we need a name for these rants. You, you go on, we need like a clever, uh, trademark, uh, if anyone’s listening and has a great idea for a catchy name for a Christina deep dive, uh, please, please write in w we’ll make a segment out of it.

[00:24:38]01Christina: [00:24:38] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, I’m, I’m, I’m off my high horse on that, but yeah,

[00:24:44] 02Brett: [00:24:44] Do you keep a clean desk?

[00:24:46]01Christina: [00:24:46] no.

[00:24:47] 02Brett: [00:24:47] Yeah, me either. I just, I just cleaned my desk today and it feels very different, but I can’t say it feels better.

[00:24:55] 01Christina: [00:24:55] yeah. Yeah, no, my desk. Okay. So I’m not going to turn this into a rant but [00:25:00] it is. It is a real problem. It is. No, but no, but this is becoming a legitimate problem. Okay. So I ordered a brand new 5k iMac, and it has arrived. It is vesa. It’s the one that just has the vesa mount. It doesn’t have this. Stand the issue is my vesa.

[00:25:14] Um, a stand that I’m going to have to use an interim has not arrived yet, or actually supposed to come in today. So I will be packing up my, um, old, iMac and then setting up the new one. The issue is the whole reason I got it is because I just ordered a new standing desk so that I hate my current desk.

[00:25:32] I’ve had it for three years. It’s just one of those, like, Ikea ones it’s terrible because I can’t Mount anything to it because of the way that the drawers work. Like it becomes too thick for me to Mount stuff. It’s just, it’s a terrible desk. I’ve hated it the whole time. I’ve had it to be totally honest.

[00:25:47] Um, but my office it’s messy in a way that like, It’s a problem because my perfectionism, and to a smaller extent, I would say [00:26:00] maybe like my OCD, whatever is such a way that like, I become overwhelmed with the, how bad it is that I can’t do anything about it. But now it’s at this place where I’m going to have to spend, I’m going to, I have to like work to get myself into an emotional place where it’s going to take me.

[00:26:16] A couple of days to completely clean out my office. Cause I’m just got boxes and shit everywhere. And you know, like, I’m just going to have to clean it and either get rid of separate or find other things to do, because I need to get this desk out. And I ordered this new standing desk, which is bigger, like significantly bigger.

[00:26:35] And I’ve got, I now have a deadline. Well, I should have today. I ordered a very expensive Herman Miller chair that is not even in my office yet. Cause I can’t get it in my office. And I, um, Order the standing desk and that will ship and should be here, you know, uh, likely in a week, but I paid for somebody to come install it.

[00:26:56] And the reason I’m doing that is because I’m not gonna be able to lift it [00:27:00] myself and grant has, is, um, has a. Some, um, like he has like a herniated disc and, and, uh, he has to take everything easy for like the next, like six to eight weeks. And so I can’t ask him to help me lift, you know, something that’s probably like, it’s like, it’s like a, a, a 72 by 30 desk and it’s.

[00:27:20] You know, probably ways. I don’t know, I’m thinking 150 pounds. Um, and so like, even if I like, even if I could get the weight, I wouldn’t be able to like, just because that’s just too big for me to do. So I ha I paid four, I paid the $200 or whatever for the installation service and how that works is that they’ll track the FedEx thing.

[00:27:38] And then once it arrives and I ensure that nothing’s broken, then the installers will come over and install it. So. My office has to be cleaned by the time that happens. Like it has to not just be clean. It has to be empty. So. No, my desk currently, it’s so terrible. Um, that I wrote like relay FM, asked me to write a desk thing for their, um, member.

[00:28:00] [00:28:00] And I included a photo and the photo I included even show the horror of it. And I just wrote like a very like direct, like, yup. I am a trash person with a messy desk and this is my thing. And it was like, people really liked it. People responded well to it, but it was. Complete like one 80. Cause almost everybody else’s like desk setup, photos are like immaculate and are to me completely.

[00:28:23] Like I don’t actually believe that people work and live that way.

[00:28:26]02Brett: [00:28:26] I do believe that like, when I, when it comes to like minimalist workspaces, I don’t think anyone actually can work that way, but a neat desk. I like, I come from a family. With, like my dad’s an engineer. He’s very, uh, very, uh, tidy engineer. And my mom keeps everything. My mom has the, like a place for everything and everything that’s placed mantra.

[00:28:50] And, um, like I grew up always in trouble because ADHD kids tend to be messy and they don’t do well with cleaning the room. So I was [00:29:00] always in trouble and once I was free to make my own decisions, I decided I like messy. And I’m not a slob. Like I keep my clothes clean. I take regular showers. I just don’t mind clutter.

[00:29:14] And, and I rarely it’s, it’s rare that I can’t find something I’m looking

[00:29:20] 01Christina: [00:29:20] You know where it

[00:29:21] 02Brett: [00:29:21] very, yeah, I’m good at keeping track of stuff, which is not characteristic of ADHD. People week do tend to lose things pretty often, but I’ve developed coping mechanisms over a lifetime of this. I can almost always, I actually used to have an Evernote notebook where I would take pictures of stuff that I frequently lost and then write down where I put it every time using like the iPhone app.

[00:29:45] I would like be like, this is now in the top drawer of the living room, a Curio cabinet or whatever. And, uh, that, that didn’t, I didn’t stick with that for long. Anyway, I, I have no problem, a cluttered desk. I really [00:30:00] don’t. And you’re right. People don’t show this enough. Um, people are very ashamed of their messes.

[00:30:08] And so all you see are these pristine desktops with not even a cup of coffee on them, unless it’s a, an artisan cup of coffee there for effect, but I can, I could do with some more honest, a workspace photos.

[00:30:25] 01Christina: [00:30:25] Yeah. Yeah. I’m going to post in our equip documents. We can put it in our show notes. I’m going to post the photo that I sent into relay. And again, this was the, this was the photo that made it look not as terrible, um, as it actually was.

[00:30:41] 02Brett: [00:30:41] Yeah. That’s, that’s almost exactly what my I’m looking at. It, that’s almost exactly what my desk looks

[00:30:46] 01Christina: [00:30:46] exactly. And, and, but the people were kind of like, Oh my God, or whatever. And I wound up sending some other photos of just like the other half of my office and some other things to people. Cause people were roasting me on Twitter and I was like, that’s fine. But no, what happened was. You know, they gave me a couple of weeks to do this.

[00:31:00] [00:30:59] Like, Hey, can you, you know, do it right up at your desk and you’re set up and whatever I was like, yeah, sure. And in my mind, I was like, Oh, well, this’ll give me encouragement to actually fix and clean my desk and, and, you know, look fake like everyone else. And then of course the time comes. And that does not happen.

[00:31:15] And it’s not a situation. Like I have an actual deadline now with the installers because I’ve paid money and people are coming to my house. And so it’s, it’s a different thing. I’m also like, you know, I’ve just spent $5,000 or $4,000 on, um, a law on a computer that, you know, one of the reasons I got the configuration I got is that I want it mounted, you know, um, on my desk.

[00:31:38] And I want to have my second monitor, um, that I bought during quarantine, like on my desk too. And so, um, but it’s going to actually get taken care of, even if I have to hire someone to come and do stuff that it’s getting taken care of, but I, uh, the way I kind of rationalize it, I was just like, you know what, [00:32:00] like, I’m just going to read like the first paragraph of what I wrote.

[00:32:03] I was like, so my office and by extension, my desk are a dumpster fire. When Steven gave me this assignment a few weeks ago, I’d hoped that it would offer me some sort of incentive to clean things up. It did not rather than scar you all. I’ve taken some photos that hide my office mess as well as I can.

[00:32:18] While also allowing you to laugh. At slash with me, I imagine my office will be cleaned right around the time I’m allowed back into my corporate office. And, and, and that’s kind of true, but yeah, but I, I kind of like, you know, it was just one of those things that I was just like, fuck it. Like, I have a feeling that a lot more people’s desks look like yours and mine then like the ones that are, um, all over, like Instagram or Pinterest or Reddit or whatever.

[00:32:43] 02Brett: [00:32:43] Sure. I will say that I keep all of my mess underneath my camera. So when I have to video chat or zoom, Or, uh, anything that involves my webcam, my office actually looks pretty neat. I have some guitars hanging [00:33:00] on the wall, a tidy little moon pod over in the corner where I nest, uh, and you can see the, like the edge of a keyboard.

[00:33:07] You can see the edge of my, my walking desk treadmill, but if you pan down. It’s a jungle of cables and, and input devices, faces, and adapters and coffee mugs and bottles of medication. Yeah, this is a mess. I’m looking at a mess right now.

[00:33:28] 01Christina: [00:33:28] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, other than seeing some boxes in the background, like that’s what you see, you see some boxes when I have my webcam on, or my actually my. Overpay the Sony that I paid too much money. Yeah. The camera is worth the money. I just didn’t need that type of camera for what’s. I primarily uses webcam, but anyway, um, That, uh, like, you know, the background and stuff mostly just kind of see boxes.

[00:33:52] And so you can kind of say, Oh, it’s whatever, like the worst part. Cause it is pretty terrible is hidden. Um, and for a [00:34:00] while at first, the background was actually pretty clean. And now as this, this, this, you know, quarantine stuff has just gone on longer and longer. I’ve just cared less and less. It’s just kind of been like one of those, like the levels in which I like and try to hide from the world, my own.

[00:34:16] Like problems are, I’m just like, do not care, but, uh, well, it’s so weird though. I was the neatest kid. Yeah. Like. I dunno, it’s a weird thing. I, um, I wasn’t diagnosed with the ADHD really until college. I went on medicine for it in high school, but that was primarily at the time, the way it was kind of described was it was, they gave me the ADHD medicine to counteract some of the sleepy, the side effects that I had from my antidepressants.

[00:34:46] And also because, um, we found that it helped with my anxiety. But I was actually formally diagnosed in college. They’re like, no, you’re ADHD. You’re just like high functioning. But as a kid, not [00:35:00] only was I neat, I was like obsessive compulsive. Neat. Like if, you know, if a shoelace was. You know, visible outside of the drawer, if everything wasn’t put back, like exactly in its box.

[00:35:13] And although I am still that way, right. Like electronics, other things. Like I keep the boxes of shit, you know, I usually put it back where that is. And like, you know, but like, you know, every toy, like even when I play with my friends, like I was the annoying kid who like, we weren’t allowed to take out another toy until we put the other one away and, you know, and, and everything was like had its place and everything was perfect.

[00:35:33] And then when. It’s like, it was really when I hit puberty and I hit puberty. I’m like, like the, like the physical puberty or whatever, like late, you know, when I was like 15, she and 16. And when that happened, yeah, it’s in a lot of ways. It’s like something changed in my, in my brain and I became messy. Like, I just became messy and it did, I do for the most part.

[00:35:55] Yeah. Know where everything is. And there are parts of my mess that can be organized. [00:36:00] Like if I have cans, they’re usually stacked up in like a very intricate way. And like, I usually know exactly where something is, but yeah, I just, um, like I became like the very typical, like ADHD person who was just like, Messy as fuck.

[00:36:17] And it’s a problem because I do actually work a lot better in, in neatness and with structure. Yeah.

[00:36:23] 02Brett: [00:36:23] I see. I don’t think I do, but do you get angry? If someone messes with your mess?

[00:36:28] 01Christina: [00:36:28] Yes.

[00:36:29] 02Brett: [00:36:29] I can. Nobody is allowed to help me clean. Like if I’m going to clean fine out, I’ll buckle down, grit my teeth and I’ll clean. Or now tidy everything up and I’ll put everything in that fabled place for everything.

[00:36:44] And that’s fine. But if anyone, while I’m gone thinks, Oh, I’m going to tidy up for him. He’ll appreciate that wrong. I will not appreciate that. I wi