Open Source Security

Josh and Kurt talk about Sonatype's 9th Annual State of the Software Supply Chain. There's a ton of data in the report, but the thing we want to talk about is the statistic that only 11% of open source is actually being maintained. Do we think that's true? Does it really matter? Show Notes Sonatype report ecosyste.ms GNOME libcue flaw Reality 2.0 supply chain episode

Josh and Kurt talk about a curl and glibc bug. The bugs themselves aren't super interesting, but there are other conversations around the bugs that are interesting. Why don't we just rewrite everything in Rust? Why can't we just train developers to stop writing insecure code. How can AI solve this problem? It's a marvelous conversation that ends on the very basic idea: we already have the security the market demands. Unless we change that demand, security won't change. Show Notes Curl vulnerability glibc vulnerability Josh's Badge Project Bob Lord's phishing message

Josh and Kurt talk about contributor license agreements (CLAs). CLAs used to be seen as a necessary evil, but they're almost certainly bad now. We're seeing CLAs being abused, it's clear now anything controlled by a CLA won't be open source forever. Show Notes A Theory of Joint Authorship for Free and Open Source Software Projects Bruce Perens: What Comes After Open Source

Josh and Kurt talk about uncertainty. There are a bunch of stories in the news lately that really just boil down to uncertainty. Uncertainty is incredibly dangerous for everyone. We are afraid of uncertainty, and often don't really understand why it is. Trust is like a currency and uncertainty erodes trust faster than almost anything else. Show Notes Unity's license mess Godot Meta and Salesforce want to re-hire people they fired earlier this year U.S. Debt Credit Rating Downgraded, Only Second Time In Nation's History

Josh and Kurt talk about filing bugs for software. There's the old saying that anyone can file bugs and submit patches for open source, but the reality is most people can't. Filing bugs for both closed and open source is nearly impossible in many instances. Even if you want to file a bug for an open source project, there are a lot of hoops before it's something that can be actionable. Show Notes Linux is a nightmare Lodash just declared issue bankruptcy and closed every issue and open PR Linux Kernel Faces Reduction in Long-Term Support Due to Maintenance Challenges Curl NULL pointer dereference

Josh and Kurt talk about the weird world we live in how where we can't control a lot of our hardware. We don't really have control over most devices we interact with on a daily basis. The conversation shifts into a question of how can we decide what to trust and where. It's a very strange problem we experience now. Show Notes Boots theory MGM cybersecurity issue shuts down slot machines and ATMs in Las Vegas casinos New York Fire Department Forcible Entry Reference Guide Request for Information on Open-Source Software Security: Areas of Long-Term Focus and Prioritization

Josh and Kurt talk about why CVE is making the news lately. Things are not well in the CVE program, and it's not looking like anything will get fixed anytime soon. Josh and Kurt have a unique set of knowledge around CVE. There's a lot of confusion and difficulty in understanding how CVE works. Show Notes Curl blog post Now it's PostgreSQL's turn to have a bogus CVE GitHub Advisory Database Josh's "CVE tried to get me fired" story

Josh and Kurt talk about wordpress selling web services with a 100 year lifespan. Will WordPress still be around in 100 years? What would 100 years of disaster recovery look like? Most of us will never need to think about 100 years of disaster recovery. Show Notes WordPress is now selling 100-year domains Danish ransomware 15-Minute City The Year Without Pants

Josh and Kurt talk about a blog post that explains how C and C++ compilers prioritize performance over correctness. This is the class story of security vs usability. Security is never the primary goal. If a security requirement doesn't also enable other business goals it will fail. We also touch on the news of a Rust package containing binary files. It doesn't really have anything to do with security, it's all about convenience. Show Notes C and C++ Prioritize Performance over Correctness Nisha's toot Barry Marshall Rust devs push back as Serde project ships precompiled binaries Why DARPA Hopes To 'Distill' Old Binaries Into Readable Code Mario 64 decompilation

Josh and Kurt talk about the HashiCorp license change and copyright problems in open source. This isn't the first and won't be the last time we see this, but it's very likely open source developers and communities will view any project that has a contributor license agreement as a problem moving forward. Show Notes Josh's BSidesLV talk Hacker News marked site as malware HashiCorp license change A Theory of Joint Authorship for Free and Open Source Software Projects

Josh and Kurt ask the question what is a vulnerability, but in the framing of video games. Security loves to categorize all bugs as security vulnerabilities or not security vulnerabilities. But the reality nothing is so simple. Everything is a question of risk, not vulnerability. The discussion about video games can help us to better have this discussion. Show Notes Colossus bug Minecraft Heist

Josh and Kurt talk about the difference between what we think of as traditional open source, and enterprise software projects that have an open source license. They are both technically open source, but how the projects work is very very different. Show Notes CentOS Stream PR The Most Prolific Packager For Alpine Linux Is Stepping Away

Josh and Kurt talk about a new Google proposal that would add DRM for the web. All the ad driven companies seem to be acting very strangely, there's probably a reason for this. The way ads used to pay for content is changing, but a lot of these giant companies don't know how to adapt. It's going to be very interesting times in the near future. Show Notes Web Environment Integrity Hacker News Thread Island Browser hunter2

Josh and Kurt talk about insider threats, but not quite in the way one would expect. The potential for insider threats is possibly higher than usual right now, but what about open source? Are open source developers insider threats for your organization? Have you ever thought about this before? Show Notes CISA insider threats hacks4pancakes toot Don't Trust a Programmer Who Knows C++ CISA Insider Threat Mitigation

Josh and Kurt talk about some of the efforts to measure and understand open source. There are projects like the OpenSSF Scorecard. We want to measure open source for some idea of quality. Is AI generated code better than a random open source project found on GitHub? Can we track the countries contributors are from? These are all interesting problems that everyone will have to deal with soon. Show Notes OpenSSF Scorecard

Josh and Kurt talk about the notion that open source is somehow dying. What's actually happening is corporate open source is changing, which some are trying to deform into something wrong with open source. Open source is doing great, probably better than ever. Show Notes Open Source isn't sustainable anymore VORON Design Video of the first lathe Plane Crazy Evernote layoffs

Josh and Kurt talk about Red Hat closing up the RHEL source code. Kurt and Josh both worked at Red Hat in the past. This isn't a show that bashes Red Hat, and it's not a show praising them. We take an honest look at the past, present, and future of Linux. There's a lot to talk about in this one. TL;DR, Red Hat was the chosen on, and we all feel betrayed. Show Notes Red Hat's first blog post Red Hat's honest post DeWitt clause

Josh and Kurt talk about the incredible Reddit debacle. At the center of it all is an API. What does it mean to be using an API and how does this relate itself back to our own risk. Many of us rely on APIs for countless things, and if a company decides to cut off that API somehow, it could create a mess. Show Notes Grimace's Birthday Reddit's new API pricing will kill off Apollo on June 30 Cory Doctorow enshitification Wal Mart pickle story Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg agree to hold cage fight

Josh and Kurt talk about a new program from the Sovereign Tech Fund to fund open source work. It's a great looking program with an acceptable amount of money behind the program. We also talk about a story claiming millions of perfectly good hard drives are destroyed per year. They're probably not OK at all. Show Notes Sovereign Tech Fund Challenges Why millions of usable hard drives are being destroyed LTT Buys Storage Array

Josh and Kurt talk about some new open source projects that aim to start taking back some of our privacy and rights. It's a huge hill to climb, but it seems like there is some hope. Open source doesn't care about growth, or numbers, or anything really, so it can't ever lose. Show Notes Codeberg Veilid Hawkins Cheezies Apollo's Reddit API costs

Josh and Kurt talk about namespaces. They were a topic in the last podcast, and resulted in a much much larger discussion for us. We decided to hash out some of our thinking in an episode. This is a much harder problem than either of us expected. We don't have any great answers, but we do have a lot of questions. Show Notes Not Red Hat NPM hash package Episode 129 – The EU bug bounty program

Josh and Kurt talk about PyPI suspending new accounts and packages for a day, and a 60 minutes story about deepfakes. The problems are mostly the same, but for very different reasons. The world is changing faster than we can keep up, so what is a human to do? Show Notes PyPI Repository Under Attack: User Sign-Ups and Package Uploads Temporarily Halted](https://thehackernews.com/2023/05/pypi-repository-under-attack-user-sign.html) 60 minutes reporter voice clone Cooridor Crew deepfakes Certificate bit flip Candy is delicious

Josh and Kurt talk about the Open Source Summit in Vancouver. Josh was there and we pick on two observations. Firstly that security keeps trying to use fear as a feature, except it doesn't work. Secondly we discuss AI and how people are talking about it. It is changing things, how much is yet to be seen. Show Notes SLSA FRSCA S2C2F MSI leak Intel microcode Tom Scott AI Video

Josh and Kurt finish up the leftpad discussion. We spent a lot of time talking about how the market will respond to these sort of events, and the market did indeed speak; very little has changed. There is an aspect of all these security events where we need to understand the cost vs benefit just isn't there. it may never be there. Rather than whine and complain, we need to work with our constraints. Show Notes Episode 77 – npm and the supply chain

Josh and Kurt revisit Episode 77, which was named "npm and the supply chain" but was a discussion about the incident we all know now as "leftpad". We didn't understand what was happening at the time, but this would become an event we talk about for years to come. It's shocking how many of the things we discuss are still completely valid five years later. Show Notes Episode 77 – npm and the supply chain

This is the second part of remastering Episode 42 which is all about the security in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie. It's a fun show and it's shocking how many of these security themes are still relevant today. Show Notes Original Episode 42 Part 1

The podcast is on a hiatus for a little while due to some personal matters, but that creates an opportunity to remaster some fun old episodes. These shows are REALLY hard to listen to at the current quality (tools and talent has come a long way in the last few years). This is a remaster of Episode 42 which is all about the security in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie. It's a fun show and it's shocking how many of these security themes are still relevant today. Show Notes Original Episode 42

Josh and Kurt talk about a blog post about pip and virtual environments. This eventually turns into a larger conversation around packaging tools and how we see incremental changes over time. The package ecosystems were what we needed a few years ago, but our needs have changed. Show Notes One Does Not Simply 'pip install' Dag Wieers RPM Webfinger GitHub repo

Josh and Kurt talk about some data on the size of NPM. Josh wrote a blog post and a report about the amount of SEO spam in NPM was released. Open source is enormous, and it's mostly one person. It's hard to imagine how this all works sometimes and this lack of understanding can create challenges. Show Notes Josh's blog on the size of NPM One In Two New Npm Packages Is SEO Spam Right Now Linux Kernel power distribution graph

Josh and Kurt talk about OpenAI having a bug in ChatGPT, then they tried to blame open source. It didn't go very well. In this episode Josh and Kurt argue a lot, maybe someday we'll know who was the least wrong. Show Notes ChatGPT Tweet ChatGPT Blog redis bug

Josh and Kurt talk to Fiona Krakenbürger about the Sovereign Tech Fund. This is a fund created by Germany to fund important open source projects. Fiona has amazing insight into how this fund was created, what it's doing today to help fund open source. She discusses where we go from here and what the future will look like. The Sovereign Tech Fund is a forward thinking program to fund open source across the world. This episode is a window into the future. Show Notes Fiona on Mastodon Sovereign Tech Fund Sovereign Tech Fund Feasibility Study NJ Governor Requests Expertise of 6 People Who Still Know COBOL OpenSSF Criticality Score European critical open source software OSTIF critical open source projects Apply to the Sovereign Tech Fund

Josh and Kurt talk about GitHub enforcing sanctions against an open source developer and Docker changing how their registry works. There's a lot to unpack in this one. There's a lot of happenings going on in the world of open source. We are seeing governments paying attention to open source like never before, change is coming and everything is going to change. Show Notes ipmitool Repository Archived, Developer Suspended By GitHub Elixir: Docker now charges open source orgs $300

Josh and Kurt talk about the number of dependencies that is now normal. Keeping track of thousands of dependencies used to be impressive, now it's normal. In what instances should we know everything about our open source? The days of being able to ignore your software liability is looking like it's coming to an end. Show Notes LTT millenial pause The perverse incentive of vulnerability counting National Cybersecurity Strategy

Josh and Kurt talk to Thomas Depierre about his "I am not a supplier" blog post. We drink from the firehose on this one. Thomas describes the realities and challenges of being an open source maintainer. What open source and society owe each other. How safety can help describe what we see. There's too many topics to even list. The whole episode is an epic adventure through modern open source. Show Notes Thomas on Mastodon I am not a supplier The Treachery of Images (Ceci n'est pas une pipe) Atlantic Council report The Field Guide to Understanding 'Human Error' Google wants new rules for developers working on 'critical' projects Roads and Bridges:The Unseen Labor Behind Our Digital Infrastructure Sovereign Tech Fund

Josh and Kurt talk about SBOMs. Quite a bit has happened in the world of SBOMs in the last year or so. There are going to be different types of SBOMs, like build, source, or runtime. Each will tell us different things depending on what we need to know. We also cover some of the community efforts happening around SBOMs. They're still not easy to use, but it's better better. Show Notes SBOM Types draft SBOM Drift OpenSSF SBOM Everywhere

Josh and Kurt talk to Joylynn Kirui about DevSecOps in the Microsoft universe. Joylynn gives us an overview of the current state of devops and tells us about some of the tools Microsoft has made available to the open source universe. Show Notes Joylynn Kirui Joylynn on DVT Tech Insights Episode 174 - a chat with GitHub about CodeQL S2C2F Azure Open Source Day

Josh and Kurt talk to Carol Nichols about Rust. Carol is an authority on Rust and helps us understand how Rust works, why it's different. Why Rust doesn't have the same problems C and C++ have, and what the future of it all could look like. It's a really fun show with some great questions from Carol along the way. Show Notes Carol Nichols on Mastodon The Rust Programming Language, 2nd Edition Rust book online Netflix tech blog on Java performance Rust in the context of Railroad Brakes Kees Cook blog - Bounded Flexible Arrays in C Consumer Reports on memory safety OSS-Fuzz and Rust

Josh and Kurt talk about the recent GitHub breach. It wasn't terribly exciting, but there are some interesting conversations to have around securing certificates, source code, and hardware security modules. In general GitHub did most things right on this one. Show Notes GitHub blog post Hacker History Podcast episode with Robert Super Mario 64 decompile Mario 64 built without optimization Link to the Past source code

Josh and Kurt talk about the NSA guidance on using memory safety issues. The TL;DR is to stop using C. We discuss why C has so many problem, why we can't fix C, and what some alternatives looks like. Even the alternatives have their own set of issues and there are many options, but the one thing we can agree on is we have to stop using C. Show Notes NSA Releases Guidance on How to Protect Against Software Memory Safety Issues Drum memory and the story of Mel Netflix performance Discord Go vs Rust NVIDIA switch to Spark

Josh and Kurt talk about the recent FAA NOTAM outage. Keeping legacy things running for long periods of time is really hard to do, this system is no different. It's also really hard to upgrade many of these due to corner cases and institutional knowledge. There aren't any great answers here, but we do ask a lot of questions about long running tech. Show Notes NOTAM outage AIX is not dead IBM Linux commercial Apple A/UX How NOT To Implement the POSIX Standard, Featuring Windows NT iSH Hand Made Vacuum Tubes

Josh and Kurt talk about the Furby source code going public. This is an opportunity to discuss what's changed in our attitude in devices that record our audio? Our devices today are vastly more powerful and dangerous than a Furby, what does your risk appetite look like? Show Notes Furby source code Talking Toy Or Spy? Adam Ruins Everything - Why Jaywalking Is a Crime

Josh and Kurt talk about how to think about open source in the context of society. Open source is more like a natural resource than a supplier. It's common to think of open source projects as delivered to us, but it's more like acquiring raw materials from the forest. The problem is we're harvesting the raw materials in an unsustainable manner at the moment. Show Notes I am not a supplier Josh's question about the environment sjvn Gorilla toolkit article Gorilla Web Toolkit Awesome Games Done Quick GeoGuessr Awesome Games Done Quick 2023

Josh and Kurt talk about the LastPass saga. There's a lot of great explanations about what happened, but there hasn't been a lot of info on how to start cleaning up this mess. We rehash some of the existing details then try to untangle what existing users can do to try to start recovering. The real problem is how LastPass is dealing with this, not the technical details. Show Notes Great writeup of LastPass Jeremi M Gosney Mastodon explanation Tavis writeup on password managers Use a Passphrase

Josh and Kurt talk about some security gifts for boxing day. We start out with the idea of the security poverty line and discuss a few ideas for how a low resource group can make their open source more secure. There are no simple answers unfortunately. Show Notes Wendy Nather Security Poverty Line Boots Theory

Josh and Kurt talk about how hard multi factor authentication is. This all starts from a Mastodon thread, and Jerry Bell, the administrator of infosec.exchange joins us to discuss password security and all things Mastodon. Infosec.exchange is an incredible story and Jerry weaves a thrilling tale. Show Notes infosec.exchange MFA discussion Jerry's 2FA advice MalwareTech retracts Mastodon statements

Josh and Kurt talk to Jill Moné-Corallo about GitHub's bug bounty and product security team. It's a treat to discuss bug bounties with someone who is managing a very large bug bounty for one of the most important web sites in the world of software today. Show Notes Jill's Twitter Jill's Mastodon GitHub Bug Bounty Bug bounty scope Eight years of the GitHub Security Bug Bounty program GitHub NPM bug bounty find

Josh and Kurt talk about a new tool that can do Stylometry analysis of Hacker News authors. The availability of such tools makes anonymity much harder on the Internet, but it's also not unexpected. The amount of power and tooling available now is incredible. We also discuss some of the future challenges we will see from all this technology. Show Notes Hacker News Stylometry Analyzer FBI Profiler on the Unabomber Impersonate Eli Lilly for $8 Shakespeare Stylometry

Josh and Kurt talk about end to end encrypted messages. This has been a popular topic lately due to the Mastodon popularity. Mastodon has a uniquely insecure messaging system, but they aren't the only one. The eternal debate of can security and usability exist together? We suspect it can't be, but it's a very complicated topic. Show Notes EFF on Mastodon DM privacy Towards End-to-End Encryption for Direct Messages in the Fediverse Pluralistic: 14 Nov 2022 Even if you're paying for the product, you're still the product

Josh and Kurt talk about email security and the perils of trying to run your own mail infrastructure. We then get into discussing the value and danger of trying to run your own infrastructure, email, blogs, or most anything. There's a lot to juggle about all this these days, it's complicated. Show Notes PowerDMARC Will Dormann GossiTheDog upgrades Exchange lcamtuf's blog I like Ice Cream

Josh and Kurt talk about the UK plan to scan their country's IP space. The purpose and outcome of this isn't completely clear at this point, but we are hopeful the data can be used as a positive force. We are only going to see more programs like this as all the governments are told they have to cyber harder. Show Notes NCSC Scanning information Motherboard podcast about NCIS