Nobody Should Believe Me

With a verdict in the case days away, host Andrea Dunlop unpacks some of what’s happened so far in the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial with lawyer and trial consultant Jonathan Leach. They analyze the dueling opening statements, consider what each side is likely to look for in jurors, and which of the charges—if any—might be most viable. Andrea shares insights on the lawyers after watching their interactions in court. She also weighs in on the extensive medical testimony so far, including a major revelation about the origins of Maya's controversial CRPS diagnosis. We also share a chilling account of Maya’s ketamine coma that was shared in court via missives written by Beata herself. As both sides begin their closing arguments Andrea weighs the merits of what each side has told the jury and considers what the ramifications of the imminent verdict might be. *** To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial. Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial barrels forward, new information comes to light each day about what really happened to Maya Kowalski during her time in the hospital. In part 2 of The Believers, Andrea digs into the testimony from the doctors at the center of the case and finds medical professionals at odds. Did Maya really have CRPS or was something else going on? With trial watchers choosing sides and digging in: what does the evidence actually tell us? Andrea also talks more about her conversation with Laura Richards and her co-host Jim Clemente, following up on some of the leads they presented. NOTE: It came up in court on 11/1 in the rebuttal that Dr. Chopra did NOT attend Harvard Medical School, but rather an institution in India affiliated with HMS. He also clarified that he is a clinical assistant professor at Brown rather than a full professor. *** Read about Dr. Chopra’s beliefs about medical child abuse here: https://painri.com/epidemic-child-abuse-doctors-harming-children/ Crime Analyst: https://www.crime-analyst.com/ Real Crime Profile: https://www.realcrimeprofile.com/ Law & Crime Networks coverage of Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZTZxCMy8Oc To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial. Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In today’s episode, Andrea seeks an outside perspective on the controversial Maya Kowalski case. Laura Richards, host of Crime Analyst and cohost of the Real Crime Profile podcast, joins Andrea to talk through the complexities and contradictions of the Netflix documentary. The conversation reveals just how polarized interpretations of this case have become. With the verdict in the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens looming, today we look at what’s been revealed by the both the vast amount of documentation on this case, as well as the trial unfolding before our eyes. *** Megan Phelps-Roper TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left?language=en The Witch Trials of JK Rowling: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-witch-trials-of-j-k-rowling/id1671691064 Crime Analyst: https://www.crime-analyst.com/ Real Crime Profile: https://www.realcrimeprofile.com/ Law & Crime Networks coverage of Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZTZxCMy8Oc To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial. Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Host Andrea Dunlop and lead producer Tina Nole dive into listener feedback from season 2 of Nobody Should Believe Me. Addressing questions of gender issues and potential sexism around medical child abuse accusations, Andrea’s guest appearance on Real Crime Profile, pro-cop allegations and more. Plus, Andrea and Tina fill listeners in on what to expect for season 3 and beyond. *** To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial. Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the flattened version of the Maya Kowalski story that has dominated the headlines, Beata Kowalski is a mother who fell prey to age-old biases against women. This story attaches itself to the well-documented reality that women are all too often not believed when it comes to their own pain, the stories of their own lives, and their professional opinions. Beata is cast as the martyr in Netflix’s “Take Care of Maya” and two other women, Cathy Beady and Dr. Sally Smith, are cast as the villains. Today, we unpack the messy gender dynamics of this case. Cathy Beady is the social worker with a troubling past who’s been accused of grooming and assaulting Maya Kowalski. What do we know about what happened during Maya’s stay at Johns Hopkins All Childrens? Was Cathy Beady really hellbent on keeping Maya and Beata apart? Media coverage of the Maya Kowalski story has also done irreparable harm to the life and career of the respected doctor at the center of the controversy: child abuse pediatrician Sally Smith. She’s been accused of violating HIPPA in a single-minded crusade to create a case against Beata Kowalski. But is there evidence that Dr. Smith did anything other than her job? Did she drive Beata to death as the film suggests or is it possible her interventions saved Maya Kowalski’s life? As we break down the narratives and misinformation surrounding this case we get to the heart of the matter. The Kowalski legal team’s claims that Munchausen by proxy is based on “junk science” and that Beata Kowalski wasn’t guilty of medical child abuse because this form of abuse isn’t even real. *** To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial. Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse and suicide. Listener discretion is advised. Beata Kowalski’s tragic death by suicide in January of 2016 is at the center of the $220 million lawsuit Jack Kowalski has filed against Johns Hopkins All Childrens hospital. But did Beata really take her own life to free her daughter from the hospital keeping her captive as the plaintiff claims? As with everything in this story, the truth is much more complicated. The narrative told in the Netflix film “Take Care of Maya” is far from a complete picture of the harrowing series of events that led to Beata’s death. In this episode we go through the police reports of the incident and various testimonies of those who were present to fill in the gaps of the days and hours leading up to Beata’s death. We also examine the final court hearing Beata attended, which gives us a glimpse into where the case stood at the time of her death. *** To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial. Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our third episode, we look at a central piece of the story that was left unfinished at the time of Beata Kowalski’s death: the police investigation into her for medical child abuse. Along with Detective Mike Weber and our anonymous Florida pediatrician friend, we unpack shocking new details from the police investigation and from Jack Kowalski’s interview the Detective Stephanie Graham. Was Jack really just being pressured to throw his wife under the bus? Or did he have suspicions of his own about her? We also unpack some of the many discrepancies in Maya's medical history and the troubling behaviors of her mother Beata, showing that that this pattern of deceptive behavior went way beyond the question of whether her daughter’s diagnosis of CRPS was correct or not As the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Children’s trial unfolds in real time, we examine the facts of the case as they stood when Beata died and show how the prevailing media narrative about this case is getting it all wrong. *** To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial. Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the Maya Kowalski case heads to trial, we dig into the massive trove of documents about this case and begin to unpack what we know about what really happened during Maya Kowalski’s fateful stay at Johns Hopkins All Childrens in October 2016. The Netflix documentary about the case—and the prevailing media narrative---would have you believe that Maya was ripped from her parents by a corrupt system, and that this could happen to any parent of a sick child. But did Maya really have a deadly disease for which she required the massive amounts of ketamine and other drugs she was being given? Was the hospital unfairly biased against Beata Kowalski because she was difficult, or was something more sinister at play? We talk to national law enforcement expert on medical child abuse, Detective Mike Weber, as well as a Florida pediatrician who helps us unravel some of the myriad strange details about Maya’s medical history. The beginning of our multi-part deep dive into the case reveals the shocking events that led up to the family separation. *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Warning: This content includes references to suicide and child abuse. If you or someone you know is having thoughts of suicide, help is available. Call or text 988 to speak with a trained crisis counselor 24/7. You can also visit 988lifeline.org for additional resources and support. As the Jack Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial gets underway today in Sarasota, FL, we revisit our conversation with top experts Bea Yorker, Dr. Mary Sanders, Detective Mike Weber, and survivor Jordyn Hope about “Take Care of Maya” the Netflix documentary about the Maya Kowalski case. Today we introduce our third season of Nobody Should Believe Me, where we will delve into the complex notion of “false accusations” of medical child abuse, getting into everything we’ve uncovered about the Maya Kowalski case and the broader conversations happening around the nation. Is there really an epidemic of over-diagnosis of medical child abuse, or are offenders slipping through the cracks? Andrea is a finalist for the Signal Awards! Best Host - Documentary Category: PLEASE VOTE HERE: https://vote.signalaward.com/PublicVoting#/2023/shows/craft/best-host-documentary For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. * * * Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In today's bonus episode, Andrea talks to family law attorney Leah McGowan about family and juvenile court and all of the many complications within those systems that create barriers for helping victims of medical child abuse. *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Andrea’s full conversation with law professor and nurse Bea Yorker, they discuss the complexities of medical child abuse, their work with survivors, and debunk some of the most common misconceptions about Munchausen by proxy/ medical child abuse. *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Andrea’s full conversation with renowned child abuse pediatrician, Dr. Carole Jenny they discuss Dr. Jenny’s fascinating history in the field, the intricacies of medical child abuse cases, and Dr. Jenny’s testimony and report in the state’s case against Andrea’s sister, Megan. *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We gather top experts Bea Yorker, Dr. Mary Sanders, Detective Mike Weber, and MBP survivor Jordyn Hope to discuss the Netflix documentary “Take Care of Maya” and the complicated case it covers. *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The full APSAC guidelines for professionals can be accessed here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the wake of obtaining shocking public records about her sister’s case, host Andrea Dunlop decides to divulge the details of the second investigation into her sister, Megan Carter. Seated alongside Detective Mike Webber, Andrea delves into the extensive documentation, and together the two unpack the devastating information about what reportedly happened to her niece. Despite video evidence, a successful separation test, and expert testimony from one of the most well-respected experts in the country, the juvenile court judge who reviewed the case returned custody of Megan’s two children. Andrea remains deeply concerned that her niece and nephew are victims of a flawed system incapable of addressing the horrifying reality of medical child abuse and makes public the evidence against her sister as a last resort to protect them. During their discussion, Andrea and Mike also examine an irresponsible and misleading article about Megan’s case published by NBC in collaboration with King 5, a local Seattle news outlet. In what has become a distressing pattern in media coverage of medical child abuse cases, this article attacks the doctor who reported the abuse and neglects to mention the evidence that made her do so. Meanwhile the judge’s order that returned custody of the two children—and on which the media’s reporting appears to have relied—contains shocking mistakes and untruths. Andrea talks to someone close to the case to set the record straight. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this bonus episode my producer Tina Nole from Larj Media and I respond to some of the questions that came up about Season 1, break down a few myths about Munchausen Syndrom By Proxy (Medical Child Abuse) and we’ll preview what’s coming up June 15th when we release Season 2 of the show. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Listen to Andrea’s full conversation with Dr. Mary Sanders, director of child & adolescent psychology at Stanford and nationally recognized expert on Munchausen by Proxy. We discuss the possibilities of treatment for perpetrators as well as the effect this abuse has on victims and how they can heal. The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children: https://www.apsac.org/ Munchausen Support: munchausensupport.com *** Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Listen to Andrea’s full conversation with Dr. Jayme Coffman, the child abuse pediatrician who runs the CARE team at Cook Children’s Hospital in Tarrant County where much of our stories takes place. She shares with us the behind-the-scenes process of determining abuse, what it’s like for doctors to get caught up in one of these cases, and why this abuse is so misunderstood. Cook Children’s: https://www.cookchildrens.org/ Munchausen Support: munchausensupport.com Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In today's bonus episode, we share Andrea's unabridged conversation with Dr. Marc Feldman, one of the experts we heard from throughout season one of the show. Dr. Marc Feldman is a Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Alabama,Tuscaloosa and an internationally renowned expert on Munchausen by Proxy. He is the author of five books, more than one hundred peer-reviewed articles, and has appeared as an expert in dozens of television programs, print media, and documentaries throughout the world. Dr. Feldman is a longtime member of the APSAC’s MBP committee and originally nominated Andrea as a member. More about Dr. Feldman: https://www.munchausen.com/ Munchausen by Proxy is a serious and widely-misunderstood form of child abuse. It can result in a wide swath of destruction and trauma for everyone involved and lifelong devastation for survivors. Munchausen Support was created in collaboration with some of the world’s top experts and provides science- and fact-based information about Munchausen by Proxy. It is also intended to offer resources and support for professionals in the midst of a case, family members in crisis, and survivors seeking treatment. https://www.munchausensupport.com *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea and her Producer Tina at Larj Media talk about how the show came to be, the journey towards finding and talking with Hope Ybarra and what you can look forward to for season 2 of the show. *** Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea has made an intense connection with Hope Ybarra's family, and asked experts, doctors, and the detective so many of her burning questions about Munchausen by Proxy. But she's become increasingly fixated on talking to Hope herself as she comes to realize that it may be her only chance to get the insights she needs. In this stunning season one finale, Andrea travels to Mountain Home, Idaho, to meet with Hope Ybarra. In this intense, emotional back-and-forth, we hear straight from Hope what life is like for her after being released from prison. We find out what she's up to and what she hopes for from the future. Hope listens to her own family—all of whom she's estranged from with the exception of Robin—talk about what she was like before everything fell apart. She insists that she still loves her children, despite what she did. We see the human being behind the monstrous acts that splashed Hope's story across headlines and landed her in prison for a decade. Andrea asks Hope what might have been done to help her and what she might say to her younger self if she could go back. Finally, she tells Hope that if she really wants her family back, she should get treatment and offers to help her if she wants that. Hope is friendly and warm in person, but Andrea is left with the unsettling truth that she hasn't changed. * * * Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea delves deep into her questions around the psychopathology of Munchausen by Proxy perpetrators. Floored by the similarities in the many cases she’s researched, she talks to two of the world's foremost experts on the disorder—Dr. Marc Feldman and Dr. Mary Sanders—about the characteristics, warning signs, and causes of the disorder that has upended the lives of so many people Andrea has spoken to throughout the course of the podcast. Why would a mother ever do this? What do they get from it? And most importantly, what could be done to stop them? Is it possible for someone who does these things to get treatment? * * * Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As Andrea contemplates what the future looks like for survivors of Munchausen by Proxy, she gets an unexpected message from two young women who’ve lived it. After appearing with Marc Feldman on a podcast, Andrea hears from twin-sisters who survived MBP. Liz and Erica Handt were taken from one terrifying situation to another when the foster mom who adopted them turns out to be abusive, telling the girls they had Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and dragging them from specialist to specialist. The twins' story is harrowing but ultimately hopeful as they're now thriving. * * * Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. For more about the Handt twins: https://lotusesinbloom.com/ Erica’s Instagram: Erica Blake (Handt) (@erica_a_blake) • Instagram photos and videos Liz’s Instagram: Liz | Mental Health + Healing (@lizhandt) • Instagram photos and videos *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right before his story was released in episode five of NOBODY SHOULD BELIEVE ME, the father we referred to as “John” changed his mind about wanting to share his story anonymously after he learned a terrifying piece of news about his son. Now, Doug Welch shares the events that led up to his decision, where things stand in his family now, and what he wants his kids to know. Coverage of the case against Mary Welch https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/mother-at-center-of-investigation-is-indicted/89-105671356 Detective Mike Weber’s arrest warrant for Mary Welch https://bit.ly/ArrestWarrent *** Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we learn from Detective Mike Weber, the father in a Munchausen by Proxy case can be the most important ally--or the biggest obstacle--in protecting child victims from abuse. In part two of Andrea’s examination of the father’s role in MBP cases, Andrea speaks to “John”, a father devastated but the revelation that his ex-wife had subjected their son to unnecessary brain surgery. We also talk to Ryan Crawford, a man who found himself fighting for his son’s life against a disbelieving system. Plus we get a stunning real-time update on one of our cases as “John” decides to come forward with his true identity. *** Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. More about Ryan Crawford’s story: https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2019/august/the-boy-who-stayed-sick/ https://mikeweberconsulting.com/ *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we learn from Detective Mike Weber, the father in a Munchausen by Proxy case can be the most important ally--or the biggest obstacle--in protecting child victims from abuse. We learn more about how Andrea’s own family became divided during the first investigation into her sister and we meet George Hunnicut, a veteran who discovered his young wife was abusing their infant son and found himself up against a system that had no idea what to do for him. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. For more about Mike Weber, visit https://mikeweberconsulting.com/ More about George Hunnicut’s story: https://media.star-telegram.com/Munchausenmoms/ More about Ryan Crawford’s story: https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2019/august/the-boy-who-stayed-sick/ *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea speaks to Deanna Boyd, the crime reporter who broke the Hope Ybarra case and discovers that Hope's was one of many Munchausen By Proxy cases in Tarrant County that Deanna unearthed; all of which had flown under the radar. What's going on here? Why are there so many cases in this one area? As Andrea interviews Deanna and meets with Detective Mike Weber, as well as Dr. Jayme Coffman and Dr. Karen Shultz--two doctors involved with the Ybarra and many other MBP cases--she makes a chilling discovery. It's not that there are so many cases in Tarrant County, it's just that they're catching them. If the systems meant to protect children were functioning, every county would look like Tarrant. Andrea can only guess as to what truly went on behind the scenes in her own family's case, but she begins to grasp what the systems involved--CPS, the police, the doctors--are up against and why so many cases are destined to fail. Meanwhile, Andrea continues her maddening back-and-forth with Hope. *** Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. For more about Mike Weber, visit https://mikeweberconsulting.com/ Read Deanna Boyd’s original reporting: https://media.star-telegram.com/Munchausenmoms/ *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We delve deeper into the story of Hope Ybarra, a young mother whose family discovers she’s been faking her eight-year-long battle with terminal cancer and begins to suspect her own health isn’t all she’s lying about. We talk more to Hope’s family and her ex-husband Fabian Ybarra about their efforts to unravel Hope’s many sinister deceptions. We meet Detective Mike Weber, who was responsible for investigating Hope Ybarra, an early foray into what would become the main focus of his career: Munchausen by Proxy. * * * Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com * * * Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We meet accomplished novelist and loving mother Andrea Dunlop as she embarks on a journey to understand the series of events that tore her family apart. We learn that her older sister has been investigated twice for Munchausen by Proxy abuse, which inspired Andrea to learn everything she could about this complex and misunderstood issue. We see Andrea become captivated by the story of Hope Ybarra and go along with her to meet Hope’s father, sister, and brother: the first people Andrea has ever spoken to who’ve actually lived through a case. But can anything prepare Andrea for the truth? * * * Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Novelist Andrea Dunlop is looking for answers. When her older sister was first investigated for Munchausen by Proxy abuse more than a decade ago, it tore her family apart. This catastrophic series of events sent Dunlop on a journey to understand this most taboo form of abuse. In this groundbreaking podcast, she talks to some of the top experts in the world to explore the criminology and psychopathology behind Munchausen by Proxy and to reveal the wide swath of destruction these perpetrators leave in their wake. Along the way, she becomes captivated by the case of Hope Ybarra: Dunlop speaks to those most familiar with the case, from the reporter who broke the story, to the detective who investigated it, to the family who lived through it. In the dramatic finale, she’ll speak to Hope Ybarra herself.​ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices