No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

This is our unabridged interview with Mike Cosper. How do you raise criticisms about a group of which you consider yourself to be a member? Mike Cosper hosted The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, a podcast critiquing a lot of the tendencies of American Christianity. “ People are looking at Christianity and saying, is it true?” he says. “I think where I landed after my own negative experiences was asking, is it good?” In this episode, we cover some of the key issues such a question has raised for Mike - like celebrity culture and toxic masculinity - as well as what it’s like to do the work of insider critique in such a public role. Show Notes Resources: The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Mike’s books Similar NSE episodes: Nancy French: Ghosted by Her Own Tribe Katelyn Beaty: How Celebrity Culture is Hurting the Church Kristin Du Mez: Jesus and John Wayne PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you raise criticisms about a group of which you consider yourself to be a member? Mike Cosper hosted The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, a podcast critiquing a lot of the tendencies of American Christianity. “ People are looking at Christianity and saying, is it true?” he says. “I think where I landed after my own negative experiences was asking, is it good?” In this episode, we cover some of the key issues such a question has raised for Mike - like celebrity culture and toxic masculinity - as well as what it’s like to do the work of insider critique in such a public role. Show Notes Resources: The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Mike’s books Similar NSE episodes: Nancy French: Ghosted by Her Own Tribe Katelyn Beaty: How Celebrity Culture is Hurting the Church Kristin Du Mez: Jesus and John Wayne PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Rainn Wilson. Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality? In a time of cultural division and political polarization, what role can spirituality play in healing our fractured world? Rainn Wilson—best known as Dwight Schrute from The Office—isn't just a comedy icon. He’s also become an unlikely voice for spiritual reflection in Hollywood, where such conversations are often taboo. In this candid and thought-provoking interview, Wilson opens up about why he believes our divided world desperately needs a renewed spiritual vocabulary—and what that might look like beyond traditional religion. Show Notes Resources: “Soul Boom” by Rainn Wilson Laughing Matters Documentary Similar NSE episodes: Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen The Road to Character: David Brooks PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality? In a time of cultural division and political polarization, what role can spirituality play in healing our fractured world? Rainn Wilson—best known as Dwight Schrute from The Office—isn't just a comedy icon. He’s also become an unlikely voice for spiritual reflection in Hollywood, where such conversations are often taboo. In this candid and thought-provoking interview, Wilson opens up about why he believes our divided world desperately needs a renewed spiritual vocabulary—and what that might look like beyond traditional religion. Show Notes Resources: “Soul Boom” by Rainn Wilson Laughing Matters Documentary Similar NSE episodes: Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen The Road to Character: David Brooks PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Marisa Franco. How important is it to have friends? Loneliness has reached epidemic levels in many countries, with research suggesting that it’s harder than ever for us to make and keep friends. And according to Marisa Franco, the issue isn’t trivial. “ Loneliness is as toxic for our bodies as smoking 15 cigarettes a day,” she says. “We are fundamentally social creatures… it's okay that you really want friends.” In this episode, she explains why friendship is a crucial aspect of a flourishing life, and gives helpful advice for those looking to make and keep friends. Show Notes Resources: “Platonic” by Marisa Franco The US Surgeon General’s Advisory on the Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community Similar NSE episodes: Alexandra Solomon: How to Have Flourishing Relationships Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: The Good Life - Lessons from the World’s Longest Study on Happiness Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How important is it to have friends? Loneliness has reached epidemic levels in many countries, with research suggesting that it’s harder than ever for us to make and keep friends. And according to Marisa Franco, the issue isn’t trivial. “ Loneliness is as toxic for our bodies as smoking 15 cigarettes a day,” she says. “We are fundamentally social creatures… it's okay that you really want friends.” In this episode, she explains why friendship is a crucial aspect of a flourishing life, and gives helpful advice for those looking to make and keep friends. Show Notes Resources: “Platonic” by Marisa Franco The US Surgeon General’s Advisory on the Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community Similar NSE episodes: Alexandra Solomon: How to Have Flourishing Relationships Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: The Good Life - Lessons from the World’s Longest Study on Happiness Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Drew Holcomb. ”The scarcity of life is what gives it value,” says singer-songwriter Drew Holcomb. “If we all lived forever, there would be no sort of rush to love and rush to justice and rush to mercy and rush to know people.” Drew’s new album, Memory Bank, co-created with his wife Ellie, is full of personal stories of love, resilience, mortality, and a strong but subtle social conscience. It was his father that inspired the title track on the album saying on their frequent family road trips that “ hope you guys don't expect to inherit anything. I put all my money in the memory bank.” Drew reflects on the impact this perspective has had on him, his art, and his faith. Drew and Lee also share their excitement about going on tour together this spring, along with Malcolm Gladwell, for No Small Endeavor: Live. Show Notes Resources: Drew’s website "The Last Sweet Mile" by Allen Levi Similar NSE episodes: Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss Russ Taff: Music, Addiction, and Redemption Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

”The scarcity of life is what gives it value,” says singer-songwriter Drew Holcomb. “If we all lived forever, there would be no sort of rush to love and rush to justice and rush to mercy and rush to know people.” Drew’s new album, Memory Bank, co-created with his wife Ellie, is full of personal stories of love, resilience, mortality, and a strong but subtle social conscience. It was his father that inspired the title track on the album saying on their frequent family road trips that “ hope you guys don't expect to inherit anything. I put all my money in the memory bank.” Drew reflects on the impact this perspective has had on him, his art, and his faith. Drew and Lee also share their excitement about going on tour together this spring, along with Malcolm Gladwell, for No Small Endeavor: Live. Show Notes Resources: Drew’s website "The Last Sweet Mile" by Allen Levi Similar NSE episodes: Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss Russ Taff: Music, Addiction, and Redemption Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Jacques Pépin. “Food is the great equalizer.” This is the mantra that has fueled the career of Jacques Pépin, who is respected as one of the finest chefs in the world. It has led him to cook for presidents and in world-class restaurants, and inspired him to write over thirty books. In this episode, he explains the role food plays in a flourishing life, describing how it breaks down barriers, builds community, and recalls us to ourselves, all while describing his own journey from a small French village to international culinary fame. Show Notes Resources: Jacques’s website “The French Chef” SNL sketch “La Technique” by Jacques Pépin Similar NSE episodes: Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm Peter Harris and Jo Swinney: A Place at the Table PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Food is the great equalizer.” This is the mantra that has fueled the career of Jacques Pépin, who is respected as one of the finest chefs in the world. It has led him to cook for presidents and in world-class restaurants, and inspired him to write over thirty books. In this episode, he explains the role food plays in a flourishing life, describing how it breaks down barriers, builds community, and recalls us to ourselves, all while describing his own journey from a small French village to international culinary fame. Show Notes Resources: Jacques’s website “The French Chef” SNL sketch “La Technique” by Jacques Pépin Similar NSE episodes: Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm Peter Harris and Jo Swinney: A Place at the Table PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Francis Collins. Francis Collins has led some of the most significant scientific initiatives of our time, including the Human Genome Project and the National Institutes of Health under three U.S. presidents. In his new book, The Road to Wisdom, Collins grapples with the erosion of public trust in science, the polarization of society, and the challenge of discerning truth in the modern age. In this conversation, Collins shares insights from his experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic, his journey from atheism to Christian faith, and the importance of humility in the pursuit of knowledge. He reflects on his unlikely friendship with the late atheist Christopher Hitchens, the philosophical roots of truth skepticism, and the need for genuine dialogue across divides. Join us as we explore how wisdom, truth, science, and faith intersect—and why curiosity and compassion might just be the antidote to our age of distrust. Show Notes Resources: "The Road to Wisdom" by Francis Collins Similar NSE episodes: Quincy Byrdsong: Tuskegee, Healthcare, Justice Jennifer Wiseman: How Science Produces Wonder David Wilkinson: The (Not Really) War Between Science and Faith Rachel Held Evans, Francis Collins, and Ed Larson: Faith, Science, Humility PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Francis Collins has led some of the most significant scientific initiatives of our time, including the Human Genome Project and the National Institutes of Health under three U.S. presidents. In his new book, The Road to Wisdom, Collins grapples with the erosion of public trust in science, the polarization of society, and the challenge of discerning truth in the modern age. In this conversation, Collins shares insights from his experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic, his journey from atheism to Christian faith, and the importance of humility in the pursuit of knowledge. He reflects on his unlikely friendship with the late atheist Christopher Hitchens, the philosophical roots of truth skepticism, and the need for genuine dialogue across divides. Join us as we explore how wisdom, truth, science, and faith intersect—and why curiosity and compassion might just be the antidote to our age of distrust. Show Notes Resources: "The Road to Wisdom" by Francis Collins Similar NSE episodes: Quincy Byrdsong: Tuskegee, Healthcare, Justice Jennifer Wiseman: How Science Produces Wonder David Wilkinson: The (Not Really) War Between Science and Faith Rachel Held Evans, Francis Collins, and Ed Larson: Faith, Science, Humility PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Nancy French. Nancy French has spent her career helping others tell their stories. As a five-time New York Times bestselling ghostwriter, she has worked with prominent conservatives, celebrities, and political figures. But in her new memoir, Ghosted: An American Story, Nancy turns the pen on herself, recounting her own journey through faith, politics, and personal betrayal. A lifelong conservative, Nancy never expected that standing against Donald Trump would lead to ostracism from her own community. Nor did she foresee how uncovering systemic abuse at a major Christian camp would result in personal vitriol toward her. In this deeply honest conversation, Nancy and Lee discuss the personal cost of truth-telling, the cultural divide in America, and how faith can persist even amid profound disappointment. Show Notes Resources: Ghosted: An American Story by Nancy French David French’s NYT column USA Today article: Kanakuk Abuse Investigation Gretchen Carlson’s work on NDAs, workplace harassment No More SAMHSA Similar NSE episodes: David French & Russell Moore: How Should Christians Do Politics Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear Kristin Du Mez sits with David French PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nancy French has spent her career helping others tell their stories. As a five-time New York Times bestselling ghostwriter, she has worked with prominent conservatives, celebrities, and political figures. But in her new memoir, Ghosted: An American Story, Nancy turns the pen on herself, recounting her own journey through faith, politics, and personal betrayal. A lifelong conservative, Nancy never expected that standing against Donald Trump would lead to ostracism from her own community. Nor did she foresee how uncovering systemic abuse at a major Christian camp would result in personal vitriol toward her. In this deeply honest conversation, Nancy and Lee discuss the personal cost of truth-telling, the cultural divide in America, and how faith can persist even amid profound disappointment. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Ghosted: An American Story by Nancy French David French’s NYT column USA Today article: Kanakuk Abuse Investigation Gretchen Carlson’s work on NDAs, workplace harassment No More SAMHSA Similar NSE episodes: David French & Russell Moore: How Should Christians Do Politics Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear Kristin Du Mez sits with David French PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Mpho Tutu van Furth. What does it mean to ask someone for forgiveness? The experience after Apartheid in South Africa has much to teach us. “In English, you say, ‘I’m sorry, forgive me.’ It’s all about me” Says Mpho Tutu van Furth, daughter to the late Desmond Tutu. But in the South African language of Xhosa “You say ndicela uxolo which means ‘I ask for peace’. And that’s a very different thing than ‘forgive me’” In this episode, explore the deep impact of apartheid in South Africa, the meaning of true forgiveness, and the profound philosophy of Ubuntu. Discover how Mpho carries on her father's legacy of peace and reconciliation while navigating her own journey as an Episcopalian priest and social activist. This heartfelt and enlightening conversation delves into the courage required to love, forgive, and build a just community. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: The Desmond & Leah Tutu Legacy Foundation Forgiveness and Reparation: The Healing Journey by Mpho Tutu The Book of Forgiving by Desdmond Tutu and Mpho Tutu Truth and Reconciliation Commission of South Africa Similar NSE episodes: Azim Khamisa: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it mean to ask someone for forgiveness? The experience after Apartheid in South Africa has much to teach us. “In English, you say, ‘I’m sorry, forgive me.’ It’s all about me” Says Mpho Tutu van Furth, the daughter to the late Desmond Tutu. But in the South African language of Xhosa “You say ndicela uxolo which means ‘I ask for peace’. And that’s a very different thing than ‘forgive me’” In this episode, explore the deep impact of apartheid in South Africa, the meaning of true forgiveness, and the profound philosophy of Ubuntu. Discover how Mpho carries on her father's legacy of peace and reconciliation while navigating her own journey as an Episcopalian priest and social activist. This heartfelt and enlightening conversation delves into the courage required to love, forgive, and build a just community. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: The Desmond & Leah Tutu Legacy Foundation Forgiveness and Reparation: The Healing Journey by Mpho Tutu The Book of Forgiving by Desdmond Tutu and Mpho Tutu Truth and Reconciliation Commission of South Africa Similar NSE episodes: Azim Khamisa: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Russ Taff. “I was 24 when I won my first Grammy,” says Russ Taff. “And within an hour, all the joy is gone.” Russ is a legend in Gospel music circles. His accolades include six Grammys, sixteen Doves, and three inductions into the GMA Hall of Fame for his work as a solo artist and a member of multiple bands. But underneath—his career, his success, and his past, almost broke him. In this episode, Russ gets vulnerable about his childhood trauma, his self-hatred, his alcoholism, and his long road to recovery and forgiveness. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Russ’s Website "Cover Story" by Russ Taff Similar NSE episodes: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss Megan Barry: Addiction, Loss, Possibility Ashley Cleveland: Does This Make My Butt Look Big? PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“I was 24 when I won my first Grammy,” says Russ Taff. “And within an hour, all the joy is gone.” Russ is a legend in Gospel music circles. His accolades include six Grammys, sixteen Doves, and three inductions into the GMA Hall of Fame for his work as a solo artist and a member of multiple bands. But underneath—his career, his success, and his past, almost broke him. In this episode, Russ gets vulnerable about his childhood trauma, his self-hatred, his alcoholism, and his long road to recovery and forgiveness. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Russ’s Website "Cover Story" by Russ Taff Similar NSE episodes: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss Megan Barry: Addiction, Loss, Possibility Ashley Cleveland: Does This Make My Butt Look Big? PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Alexandra Solomon. Is your love life in need of a tune-up? Just in time for Valentine's Day, renowned relationship expert Dr. Alexandra Solomon joins us to share powerful insights from her book, "Loving Bravely." Discover how self-awareness and understanding your past can dramatically improve your present relationships. Dr. Solomon unpacks the secrets to thriving intimacy, from mastering the art of apology to staying truly present with your partner. Plus, get practical tools for navigating the inevitable challenges of long-term love. Tune in for this insightful conversation that will empower you to build stronger, more fulfilling relationships. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Reimagining Love Podcast “Loving Bravely” by Alexandra Solomon Similar NSE episodes: Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: Lessons from the World’s Longest Scientific Study of Happiness PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Interview Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is your love life in need of a tune-up? Just in time for Valentine's Day, renowned relationship expert Dr. Alexandra Solomon joins us to share powerful insights from her book, "Loving Bravely." Discover how self-awareness and understanding your past can dramatically improve your present relationships. Dr. Solomon unpacks the secrets to thriving intimacy, from mastering the art of apology to staying truly present with your partner. Plus, get practical tools for navigating the inevitable challenges of long-term love. Tune in for this insightful conversation that will empower you to build stronger, more fulfilling relationships. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Reimagining Love Podcast “Loving Bravely” by Alexandra Solomon Similar NSE episodes: Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: Lessons from the World’s Longest Scientific Study of Happiness PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Shankar Vedantam. We all like to believe that we live our lives rationally, deliberately, consciously. But what if our conscious decision making is just the tip of the iceberg? “ I feel like I have a full picture of what's happening inside my own mind,” says Shankar Vedantam. But it turns out “there is a large portion of our mind that's working outside of our conscious awareness.” Shankar founded Hidden Brain Media in order to teach people what science has uncovered about our brains. In this episode, he discusses why we’re not as autonomous as we think we are, and the profound implications for the ways we act, think, and live. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: “Hidden Brain” by Shankar Vedantam Hidden Brain Website Shankar’s TED Talk Similar NSE episodes: Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion Amishi Jha: Push-ups for Your Brain Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Interview Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We all like to believe that we live our lives rationally, deliberately, consciously. But what if our conscious decision making is just the tip of the iceberg? “ I feel like I have a full picture of what's happening inside my own mind,” says Shankar Vedantam. But it turns out “there is a large portion of our mind that's working outside of our conscious awareness.” Shankar founded Hidden Brain Media in order to teach people what science has uncovered about our brains. In this episode, he discusses why we’re not as autonomous as we think we are, and the profound implications for the ways we act, think, and live. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: “Hidden Brain” by Shankar Vedantam Hidden Brain Website Shankar’s TED Talk Similar NSE episodes: Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion Amishi Jha: Push-ups for Your Brain Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Nadia Bolz-Weber. “When I left the Christian Fundamentalism of my childhood, I became an activist.” Christian Fundamentalism is often looked down upon for its dualistic, black-and-white outlook, which is often used for policing behavior. But, Nadia Bolz-Weber explains, these are the same extreme tendencies that she found in secular activism after she left the church. Later in life, after working as a comedian and entering recovery, Nadia began to untangle the mindset that had taken her from one extreme to the other. Her long journey has since led her to becoming a Lutheran pastor and a three-time bestselling author. In this episode, she tells her story. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: “Shameless” by Nadia Bolz-Weber “Pastrix” by Nadia Bolz-Weber Similar NSE episodes: Philip Yancey: Where the Light Fell Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke Suzanne Stabile: Exploring the Enneagram PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Interview Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“When I left the Christian Fundamentalism of my childhood, I became an activist.” Christian Fundamentalism is often looked down upon for its dualistic, black-and-white outlook, which is often used for policing behavior. But, Nadia Bolz-Weber explains, these are the same extreme tendencies that she found in secular activism after she left the church. Later in life, after working as a comedian and entering recovery, Nadia began to untangle the mindset that had taken her from one extreme to the other. Her long journey has since led her to becoming a Lutheran pastor and a three-time bestselling author. In this episode, she tells her story. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: “Shameless” by Nadia Bolz-Weber “Pastrix” by Nadia Bolz-Weber Similar NSE episodes: Philip Yancey: Where the Light Fell Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke Suzanne Stabile: Exploring the Enneagram PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Esau McCaulley. What is it like growing up Black in the American South? The question is too particular to answer with abstraction. Instead, Esau McCaulley answers it in the most personal, humble way available, by telling the story of his family in his new memoir, “How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South.” In this episode, Esau discusses what he uncovered from a season of digging deeply into family and national history, and describes what the experience taught him about race, faith, and the culture of the South in the United States. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: “How Far to the Promised” Land by Esau McCaulley Similar NSE episodes: The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho White Too Long: Robert Jones PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Interview Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is it like growing up Black in the American South? The question is too particular to answer with abstraction. Instead, Esau McCaulley answers it in the most personal, humble way available, by telling the story of his family in his new memoir, “How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South.” In this episode, Esau discusses what he uncovered from a season of digging deeply into family and national history, and describes what the experience taught him about race, faith, and the culture of the South in the United States. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: “How Far to the Promised” Land by Esau McCaulley Similar NSE episodes: The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho White Too Long: Robert Jones PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Tom Paxton. In the 1960s, during the folk music revival in a neighborhood of New York City called Greenwich Village, a small cafe called the Gaslight hosted many singer-songwriters who were up-and-coming at the time. You might know some of their names, like Bob Dylan and Dave Van Ronk. Among the regulars there was Tom Paxton, who, 60 years and 50 albums later, is still writing and performing folk songs that bear witness to profound societal truths. In this episode, hear from Tom what it was like to perform during those days, what role folk music plays in stirring up the status quo, and thoughts on vulnerability, notoriety, grief, an Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Tom’s Website Doc Watson and Dolly Parton - Merlefest 2001 Similar NSE episodes: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist Drew Holcomb and Audrey Assad: Vulnerable Art Transcript of Abridged Interview Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the 1960s, during the folk music revival in a neighborhood of New York City called Greenwich Village, a small cafe called the Gaslight hosted many singer-songwriters who were up-and-coming at the time. You might know some of their names, like Bob Dylan and Dave Van Ronk. Among the regulars there was Tom Paxton, who, 60 years and 50 albums later, is still writing and performing folk songs that bear witness to profound societal truths. In this episode, hear from Tom what it was like to perform during those days, what role folk music plays in stirring up the status quo, and thoughts on vulnerability, notoriety, grief, an Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Tom’s Website Similar NSE episodes: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist Drew Holcomb and Audrey Assad: Vulnerable Art Transcription Link This episode of No Small Endeavor is sponsored by Dwell—the audio bible app. To get 25% off your subscription visit dwellbible.com/nse Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Makoto Fujimura. Makoto Fujimura occupies an unusual intersection of personal realities: He is an abstract expressionist artist who discovered his Christian faith as an art student in Japan. He continually finds himself trying to bridge the divide between religion and art. “I can't really talk about my faith with my artist friends, and I can't talk about art with my Christian friends,” he says. “But for me, it's never been that way.” In this episode, he talks about how he uses traditional Japanese methods of painting — “slow art,” as he calls it — to explore grief, brokenness, and healing. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: “Art and Faith: A Theology of Making” by Makoto Fujimura (Yale University Press) Examples of Mako’s Paintings The Four Holy Gospels "Silence" by Shūsaku Endō Similar NSE episodes: Drew Holcomb and Audrey Assad: Vulnerable Art Christian Wiman: Poetry Against Despair Poetry as Politics: Poet Laureates Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe Transcript of Abridged Interview This episode of No Small Endeavor is sponsored by Dwell—the audio bible app. To get 25% off your subscription visit dwellbible.com/nse Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Makoto Fujimura occupies an unusual intersection of personal realities: He is an abstract expressionist artist who discovered his Christian faith as an art student in Japan. He continually finds himself trying to bridge the divide between religion and art. “I can't really talk about my faith with my artist friends, and I can't talk about art with my Christian friends,” he says. “But for me, it's never been that way.” In this episode, he talks about how he uses traditional Japanese methods of painting — “slow art,” as he calls it — to explore grief, brokenness, and healing. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: “Art and Faith: A Theology of Making” by Makoto Fujimura (Yale University Press) Examples of Mako’s Paintings The Four Holy Gospels "Silence" by Shūsaku Endō Similar NSE episodes: Drew Holcomb and Audrey Assad: Vulnerable Art Christian Wiman: Poetry Against Despair Poetry as Politics: Poet Laureates Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe Transcription Link This episode of No Small Endeavor is sponsored by Dwell—the audio bible app. To get 25% off your subscription visit dwellbible.com/nse Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Oliver Burkeman. In an age full of lifehacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life? "The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder." In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "Four Thousand Weeks" by Oliver Burkeman "The Antidote" by Oliver Burkeman “A Testament of Devotion” by Thomas Raymond Kelly Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong" Similar NSE episodes: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Interview This episode of No Small Endeavor is sponsored by Dwell—the audio bible app. To get 25% off your subscription visit dwellbible.com/nse Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In an age full of lifehacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life? "The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder." In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "Four Thousand Weeks" by Oliver Burkeman "The Antidote" by Oliver Burkeman “A Testament of Devotion” by Thomas Raymond Kelly Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong" “Man’s Search for Meaning” by Victor Frankl Similar NSE episodes: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Kelly Corrigan. “What percentage of all pain in the world is related to wanting to belong?” Kelly Corrigan - who you may know as a New York Times bestselling author and the host of a number of popular radio and TV shows - was a young mother of two when she and her beloved father were both diagnosed with cancer. It was, to say the least, an immensely difficult time. Yet, she found her way through it by relying heavily on her tendency to be vulnerable, rather than hiding her pain from others. “It's just fodder for us to be closer,” she says of her suffering. “The point is to connect.” In this episode, she shares her story, along with much wisdom gleaned from a life of leaning into vulnerability. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: “Tell Me More” by Kelly Corrigan “The Middle Place” by Kelly Corrigan “Tell Me More” on PBS Kelly Corrigan Wonders Podcast Similar NSE episodes: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“What percentage of all pain in the world is related to wanting to belong?” Kelly Corrigan - who you may know as a New York Times bestselling author and the host of a number of popular radio and TV shows - was a young mother of two when she and her beloved father were both diagnosed with cancer. It was, to say the least, an immensely difficult time. Yet, she found her way through it by relying heavily on her tendency to be vulnerable, rather than hiding her pain from others. “It's just fodder for us to be closer,” she says of her suffering. “The point is to connect.” In this episode, she shares her story, along with much wisdom gleaned from a life of leaning into vulnerability. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: “Tell Me More” by Kelly Corrigan “The Middle Place” by Kelly Corrigan “Tell Me More” on PBS Kelly Corrigan Wonders Podcast Similar NSE episodes: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Meghan Sullivan. What does it mean to live a good life, and how do we start? On our show, we make it a habit of repeating our tagline: “Exploring what it means to live a good life.” But in this episode, we address the issue head-on, with the help of Notre Dame Professor of Philosophy Meghan Sullivan. We discuss her book “The Good Life Method,” which gives helpful insight about the kinds of questions philosophers and theologians have been asking for millennia: What does it mean to pursue a life worth living? What sort of end ought we keep in mind in all our doing and living and being? And how might we get there? Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "The Good Life Method" by Meghan Sullivan "On Bullshit" by Harry G. Frankfurt “The Will To Believe” by William James Similar NSE episodes: Edith Hall: How Ancient Wisdom Can Change Your Life Charles Duhigg: The Power of Habit Rebecca DeYoung: The Seven Deadly Sins Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: The Good Life PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it mean to live a good life, and how do we start? On our show, we make it a habit of repeating our tagline: “Exploring what it means to live a good life.” But in this episode, we address the issue head-on, with the help of Notre Dame Professor of Philosophy Meghan Sullivan. We discuss her book “The Good Life Method,” which gives helpful insight about the kinds of questions philosophers and theologians have been asking for millennia: What does it mean to pursue a life worth living? What sort of end ought we keep in mind in all our doing and living and being? And how might we get there? Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "The Good Life Method" by Meghan Sullivan "On Bullshit" by Harry G. Frankfurt “The Will To Believe” by William James Similar NSE episodes: Edith Hall: How Ancient Wisdom Can Change Your Life Charles Duhigg: The Power of Habit Rebecca DeYoung: The Seven Deadly Sins Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: The Good Life PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with The Hillbilly Thomists. There aren’t many Billboard-charting bluegrass bands made up entirely of Catholic Dominican Friars, who play their shows clad in white tunics and rosaries. In fact, there is precisely one such band: the Hillbilly Thomists. “A Thomist is someone who follows the thought and theological teaching of Saint Thomas Aquinas,” they explain. “We combine it with a little bit of humor about our human condition.” In this episode, they talk about their theology and vocation, as well as how they manage life on the road as priests who have taken a vow of poverty. Plus, they give live performances of some of their finest songs. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: The Hillbilly Thomists’ Website Similar NSE episodes: N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry Edith Hall: How Ancient Wisdom Can Change Your Life Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There aren’t many Billboard-charting bluegrass bands made up entirely of Catholic Dominican Friars, who play their shows clad in white tunics and rosaries. In fact, there is precisely one such band: the Hillbilly Thomists. “A Thomist is someone who follows the thought and theological teaching of Saint Thomas Aquinas,” they explain. “We combine it with a little bit of humor about our human condition.” In this episode, they talk about their theology and vocation, as well as how they manage life on the road as priests who have taken a vow of poverty. Plus, they give live performances of some of their finest songs. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: The Hillbilly Thomists’ Website Similar NSE episodes: N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry Edith Hall: How Ancient Wisdom Can Change Your Life Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Audrey Assad. “Why shouldn’t I question that?” This was the question that started Audrey Assad on a journey away from the faith of her childhood and early adulthood. It’s a question that, years later, is still a guiding light for her towards healing and truth-seeking. But asking such questions after years as an acclaimed singer-songwriter in the Christian music industry comes at a cost. Today, Audrey discusses her unreleased memoir “Doubt Becomes Wonder: Embracing the Loss of Everything You Thought You Knew.” They discuss healing from childhood wounds, the consequent navigation of doubt, and Audrey’s experience as a woman in the church. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Audrey’s website "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk Similar NSE episodes: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty Joy Oladokun: Listen, Love, and Turn the Other Cheek Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Sometimes artists have to take a chance and be vulnerable.” Drew Holcomb and Audrey Assad are two such artists, whose brilliance is in large part due to their vulnerability. Drew was once heralded by Rolling Stone as “one of Americana’s most popular stars,” and yet he is quick to note that “the human heart was not built for notoriety.” He describes the complex road he took to full-time artistry, his relationship with his fans, the tragic loss of his brother, and more. Audrey found success in the Christian music industry, until her quest for authenticity and truth led her in a new direction. She shares her story, speaking honestly about traumas and doubts that brought her to where she is now. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Drew’s website Audrey’s website "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk Similar NSE episodes: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty Joy Oladokun: Listen, Love, and Turn the Other Cheek Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Peter Levine. “In order to really move through trauma,” says Peter Levine, “we have to do that in the body.” As a psychologist with much of his own trauma to work through, Peter has spent his career researching ways to help himself and others come to healing and wholeness. In this episode, he discusses his memoir “An Autobiography of Trauma,” in which he uses his own life story to illustrate his findings. From a standing meeting with an imagined Albert Einstein, to a host of life-changing dreams, listen as he shares how both his professional research and mystical personal experience have taught him much about the ways our bodies hold trauma, and how we can learn to pay attention to our lives and find healing. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "An Autobiography of Trauma: A Healing Journey" by Peter Levine "Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma" by Peter Levine Similar NSE episodes: Amishi Jha: Push-ups for Your Brain Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance Curt Thompson: The Soul of Shame PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“In order to really move through trauma,” says Peter Levine, “we have to do that in the body.” As a psychologist with much of his own trauma to work through, Peter has spent his career researching ways to help himself and others come to healing and wholeness. In this episode, he discusses his memoir “An Autobiography of Trauma,” in which he uses his own life story to illustrate his findings. From a standing meeting with an imagined Albert Einstein, to a host of life-changing dreams, listen as he shares how both his professional research and mystical personal experience have taught him much about the ways our bodies hold trauma, and how we can learn to pay attention to our lives and find healing. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "An Autobiography of Trauma: A Healing Journey" by Peter Levine "Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma" by Peter Levine Similar NSE episodes: Amishi Jha: Push-ups for Your Brain Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance Curt Thompson: The Soul of Shame PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Malcolm Gladwell and Tracy K. Smith To prepare for family dinners and political conversations this holiday season, two guests offer us new ways of being humble and curious. First, well-known thinker and author Malcolm Gladwell reveals why we must learn humility if we are to understand each other. “Humility is a habit,” he says. “Habit is a really important word, because if it's a habit, it means it's something that you have to practice.” Then, former U.S. Poet Laureate Tracy K. Smith offers powerful poems that invite us to acknowledge the full, complex, and beautiful worth of the human beings we encounter. In this episode, listen closely for multiple ways we can cultivate humility, be curious, and have compassion despite our disagreements and differences. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference" by Malcolm Gladwell Similar NSE episodes: Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe: Poetry as Politics Thanksgiving Special: Conversation and Gratitude Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To prepare for family dinners and political conversations this holiday season, two guests offer us new ways of being humble and curious. First, well-known thinker and author Malcolm Gladwell reveals why we must learn humility if we are to understand each other. “Humility is a habit,” he says. “Habit is a really important word, because if it's a habit, it means it's something that you have to practice.” Then, former U.S. Poet Laureate Tracy K. Smith offers powerful poems that invite us to acknowledge the full, complex, and beautiful worth of the human beings we encounter. In this episode, listen closely for multiple ways we can cultivate humility, be curious, and have compassion despite our disagreements and differences. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference" by Malcolm Gladwell "Wade in the Water: Poems" by Tracy K. Smith Similar NSE episodes: Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe: Poetry as Politics Thanksgiving Special: Conversation and Gratitude Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Kathryn Gin Lum. When is the last time you heard the word “heathen”? The word was originally used to delineate between European Christians who tended to be in urban centers and pagans in rural areas. “Heathen exists in the mind of the person doing the labeling, right? It's a label that one people foists onto another.” Our guest today, Kathryn Gin Lum, walks us through the history of the term heathen and how it has utterly shaped the world. We discuss her book Heathen: Religion and Race in American History. The idea behind the term was wielded as a weapon to justify colonization and enslavement, and though the term has fallen out of use, she says the mental map of the world it has created has not. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "Heathen: Religion and Race in American History" by Kathryn Gin Lum "The Origin of Others (The Charles Eliot Norton Lectures)" by Toni Morrison Similar NSE episodes: Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination Eugene Cho Karen Korematsu: Fear, Home and the Asian-American Experience PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Interview Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When is the last time you heard the word “heathen”? The word was originally used to delineate between European Christians who tended to be in urban centers and pagans in rural areas. “Heathen exists in the mind of the person doing the labeling, right? It's a label that one people foists onto another.” Our guest today, Kathryn Gin Lum, walks us through the history of the term heathen and how it has utterly shaped the world. We discuss her book Heathen: Religion and Race in American History. The idea behind the term was wielded as a weapon to justify colonization and enslavement, and though the term has fallen out of use, she says the mental map of the world it has created has not. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "Heathen: Religion and Race in American History" by Kathryn Gin Lum "The Origin of Others (The Charles Eliot Norton Lectures)" by Toni Morrison Similar NSE episodes: Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination Eugene Cho and Karen Korematsu: Fear, Home and the Asian-American Experience PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Tim Shriver. On social media and the news, the narrative told about humanity is often one of violence, division, and dehumanization. But is that really who we are? Tim Shriver, best-selling author and chairman of the Special Olympics, doesn’t think so. “My view,” he says, “is that the versions of our lives that most of us lead most days are much more hopeful.” As the nephew of John F. Kennedy, Tim has known great privilege and great grief. As an educator and social worker, he has seen the countless ways that humans defy stereotypes and give grace and hope to one another. In this episode, he talks about why his life and career have led him to the conclusion that the key to a happy life is to live it for the flourishing of others. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most" by Tim Shriver Tim's Website "Need a Lift?" Podcast Similar NSE episodes: Greg Boyle: Cherished Belonging Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On social media and the news, the narrative told about humanity is often one of violence, division, and dehumanization. But is that really who we are? Tim Shriver, best-selling author and chairman of the Special Olympics, doesn’t think so. “My view,” he says, “is that the versions of our lives that most of us lead most days are much more hopeful.” As the nephew of John F. Kennedy, Tim has known great privilege and great grief. As an educator and social worker, he has seen the countless ways that humans defy stereotypes and give grace and hope to one another. In this episode, he talks about why his life and career have led him to the conclusion that the key to a happy life is to live it for the flourishing of others. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most" by Tim Shriver Tim's Website "Need a Lift?" Podcast Similar NSE episodes: Greg Boyle: Cherished Belonging Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Philip Mangano. Is homelessness a problem that can be solved? Historically, efforts made to address homelessness in the US have taken a symptom-management approach, focusing on soup kitchens, clothing drives, and medical programs. But these well-intentioned efforts often have a paradoxical effect: over time, they end up serving more and more homeless people, rather than reducing the number of those unhoused. In this episode, Philip Mangano describes his longtime effort to approach homelessness in a new way. “I took the abolitionist frame,” he says of his renowned Housing-First Initiative. “People were homeless, so the antidote must be a place to live.” Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell "Good to Great" by Jim Collins "The Innovator’s Dilemma" by Clayton Christensen Similar NSE episodes: Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm Charlie Strobel: Remembering a Life Well Lived Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke James Lawson: The Architect of the United States Civil Rights Movement PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is homelessness a problem that can be solved? Historically, efforts made to address homelessness in the US have taken a symptom-management approach, focusing on soup kitchens, clothing drives, and medical programs. But these well-intentioned efforts often have a paradoxical effect: over time, they end up serving more and more homeless people, rather than reducing the number of those unhoused. In this episode, Philip Mangano describes his longtime effort to approach homelessness in a new way. “I took the abolitionist frame,” he says of his renowned Housing-First Initiative. “People were homeless, so the antidote must be a place to live.” Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell "Good to Great" by Jim Collins "The Innovator’s Dilemma" by Clayton Christensen Similar NSE episodes: Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm Charlie Strobel: Remembering a Life Well Lived Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke James Lawson: The Architect of the United States Civil Rights Movement PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices