Mutuality Matters

On this episode of Mutuality Matters, Dr. Mimi Haddad meets with Dr. Preston Sprinkle to discuss his new book, "From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says about Women in Leadership." A deeply committed Christian, husband, and father, Preston Sprinkle said his career has focused on serving the church as a scholar. As such, he approaches questions concerning faith and life through a deep dive exegetical analysis of the related biblical passages and related historical contexts. For many years, as a complementarian, Preston read the key passages (1 Timothy 2:11–15, 1 Corinthians 14:34–36, and Ephesians 5:21–33) at face value—through a plain reading of the text which, seemingly, supports male leadership in church and the home. Yet, over time, he noticed how the Greek syntax in these passages was complex. Attending more carefully, he began to focus on single words in the text like “silent.” This practice was quite fruitful in helping him realize how women were not silent in Scripture contra 1 Corinthians 14:34–36. This seeming inconsistency evoked questions around what NT women were talking about. Clearly, they had a voice. In fact, leading Bible women were far from silent. God called and gifted women to speak as prophets, judges, warriors, and diplomats. Women were Christ’s disciples, and women served beside Paul as deacons, apostles, church planters, and his coworkers. Romans 16 abounds with the voices of women, slaves, and non-Jews—aligning with the welcome of women as Gospel agents (Gal. 3:28). Stunningly, women’s voices were heard in Corinth, as they prayed and prophesied in the church (1 Cor. 11:5), raising questions about the meaning of 1 Corinthians 14:34–36. Other passages in 1 Corinthians, such as 1 Corinthians 7:4-5, 1 Corinthians 11:7, and 1 Corinthians 11, challenged Preston as a complementarian because: Wives and husbands have authority over each other’s bodies: 1 Cor. 7:4–5 Women prayed and prophesied: 1 Cor. 11:5. Women “… have authority over her own head, because of the angels:” 1 Cor. 11:10. Woman and man are interdependent: 1 Cor. 11:11–12. Preston cited as a helpful resource, Gregory Dawe’s works on head metaphors in Ephesians, The Body in Question: Metaphor and Meaning in the Interpretation of Ephesians 5:21–33 (Biblical Interpretation Series, 30) Turning to 1 Timothy 2:11–12, Preston points to the extreme use of authority (authentein) Paul evokes in this passage that mirrors the unilateral, domineering authority of slave owners over their slaves as it demeaned slaves ontologically as lesser humans for a lesser purpose. It was a devaluation Jesus challenged in Matthew 20:25–28: “Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Summing it up, Preston suggests that three complex, poorly translated texts cannot overturn the “wide ocean of women leaders in Scripture.” Which is why he cautions against silencing women based on a plain reading of the Bible. Add to this the many women scholars he admired even before becoming an egalitarian. Women like Drs. Linda Belleville Sandra Ritcher, Lynn Cohick, Cynthia Westfall, and others are deeply regarded and highly respected throughout the Christian world. We add Preston to the list of egalitarian scholars and leaders, thanking him for his very insightful work throughout this podcast and in his newest book, From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says about Women in Leadership, available in CBE’s bookstore. Enjoy! 00:56 Welcome and Guest Intro 02:59 Preston’s Journey Shift 04:56 Deep Dive Research Process 06:31 Key Textual Turning Points 11:04 Women Scholars and Influences 13:24 Feedback and Early Critiques 19:51 Jesus Centered Vision for Women 21:46 Conference Invitation Chicago 2026 24:39 Hopes for the Book 25:33 When Egalitarianism Gets Real 26:45 Why Change Takes Time 30:37 Texts of Terror Overview 31:06 Women Silent in Church 33:29 Marriage and Household Codes 35:18 Authority in 1 Timothy 37:32 Hardest Passage 1 Corinthians 11 40:24 Mutuality in Paul 42:07 Conference Invite and Thanks 43:29 Closing Prayer and Support

On this episode of Mutuality Matters: Women and Words, Host Dr. Mimi Haddad interviewed Rev. Dr. Ingrid Faro. Ingrid described her challenging childhood and young married life as one of abuse, both psychologically and physically. Her early church experience was equally difficult, as women were to be seen but not heard. In her family of origins, she felt invisible and unimportant. She was terrified of her mother and had no real relationship with her dad. Ingrid was struggling to figure out who she is and even wondered if it was safe to think her thoughts. She also wanted out of the church because, as Ingrid describes, she so wanted God to be fair, but life didn’t seem to be fair. Ingrid shared how her first husband (a preacher and NT scholar) was unfaithful to her. He was also violent and broke her nose, landing her in the ER, where she told the attending doctors that she had an “accident,” but they were unconvinced. These and other experiences led to her struggle with the question of “theodicy,” whether God is just and good. Ingrid wondered if she could ever really trust God. This led to an exploration of God theologically. She became acquainted with and greatly admires the scholarship of the OT scholar Dr. Abraham Joshua Heschel. A passion for the OT was part of her journey. Her second husband nurtured honest, even blunt communication, or as Brené Brown says, “clarity is kindness.” As Ingrid studied Scripture, she encountered many bold women who henceforward served as her role models! In them she found a sense of release, or as she said, “I didn’t know the weight that was on my shoulders until it was lifted off me.” Ingrid began to see God’s clear anointing on women which began with the Apostle Paul. Ingrid began to sense a calling to an academic study of Scripture, which gave her pause. She was given opportunities to say what was on her heart but felt conflicted. Then she asked herself, “Can I stand before God and say, ‘I can’t.’” She had to distinguish between a fear of people and a fear of God. Yet the biblical “texts of terror” that appeared to silence women were very limited compared the many, many texts that welcomed their wisdom, voice and leadership. Consider Paul’s texts that seem to silence women (1 Cor. 14:34–36, 1 Tim. 2:11–15, Eph. 5:22&FF) compared to the many women Paul celebrates as co-leaders with him in preaching the gospel and leading churches, like those cited in Romans 16. More recently, Ingrid has considered the challenge of abuse in the church one of the most pressing challenges the church must address. She sometimes feels that the church is one of the most abusive places women encounter. Yet this was certainly an issue noted in Genesis 2. Here Ingrid notes the challenge of Bible translation as too often Genesis 2:18 is translated “The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” The Hebrew word for “helper,” is ezer, which means “a strong rescue,” as Dave Freedman notes. “Helper” fails to describe the true meaning of ezer. Ingrid also points to the work of Katharine Bushnell who redeems Eve by observing that she was the first person to have faith and hope in God’s promises. She also points to the following authors who have inspired her own scholarship and faith: Karen Swallow Prior, Carol L. Meyers, Edith Deen, Sandra Ritcher, Cynthia Long Westfall, and also biblical models like Abraham and Sarah. For many years, Ingrid taught OT and has recently published the book, Redeeming Eden: How Women in the Bible Advance the Story of Salvation. Ingrid will lead a keynote and workshop at CBE’s conference this summer in Chicago, where she will also receive CBE’s Lifetime Achievement Award. Guest Bio: Bio: Revd. Dr. Ingrid Faro is an ordained minister and currently serves as interim president and professor of Old Testament at Northern Seminary in Chicago. She previously served as dean of academic affairs, dean of theology at the Scandinavian School of Theology, and director of master’s programs at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, where she also taught Hebrew and Old Testament. She is an international speaker and the author of Redeeming Eden: How Women in the Bible Advance the Story of Salvation with Joyce Koo Dalrymple, Demystifying Evil, co-author of Honest Answers, Evil in Genesis, co-author of forthcoming As We Forgive: A Biblical Theology of Forgiveness, as well as articles, chapters, and reviews. Prior to her work in theological education, Ingrid was an entrepreneur and president of an insurance consulting group serving one-thousand agents in thirty-five states for twenty years. Ingrid has two children and four grandchildren. Related Resources: Healing from Hierarchy: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/mutuality-healing-from-hierarchy/ Silent No More: Exposing Abuse Among Evangelicals: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/silent-no-more-exposing-abuse-among-evangelicals/ Her Silence Screams: https://www.cbeinternational

In this podcast, Rev. Dr. Michael F. Bird explores the crucial sociological context that often influences human interpretation of Scripture along with the complexities involved in reading passages from Paul who is considered both the ally of both egalitarians and complementarians. Spending significant time on Paul’s reference to Phoebe (Romans 16:1–2) as deacon in the church of Cenchrea. Too often we allow Paul’s passages that appear to silence women for all time (1 Timothy 2:11-15, Ephesians 5:22&FF and 1 Corinthians 14:34–36 ) overlooking the many women speaking, teaching and leading in the OT and NT, especially beside Paul and throughout Church History. Mike considers the impact of sin on God’s original design for women and men in Gen 1:26–31. Because of sin, the mutuality enjoyed by women and men deteriorates into the male rule noted in Gen 3:16. Supremely, Mike notes the victories of Christ in conquering sin on Calvary, along with the many passages in the New Testament that speak of the ontological mutuality and equal service of women and men, such as Proverbs 31, Galatians 3:28 but also a passage heavily cited by the Abolitionists that reads: “From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands,” Acts 17:26. Read full chapter. Mike masterfully integrates biblical theology, church history, theology, and culture as he explores key topics impacting women, marriage, and service. His sense of humor, use of metaphor and his experiences working in the church and academy brings keen insights into the egalitarian conversation today. We hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Mike Bird, a dear friend of CBE. Guest Bio: The Rev. Dr. Michael F. Bird: Mike is Deputy Principal and Lecturer in New Testament at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. He is an Anglican priest and is married with four children. He is the author of several books including the awarding winning The Gospel of the Lord: How the Early Church Wrote the Story of Jesus and with N.T. Wright, The New Testament in its World. Books published by Michael F. Bird: Whispers of Revolution: Jesus and the Coming King. Romans: Greek-English Interlinear Paraphrase Study Notes Books published by N.T. Wright and Michael F. Bird: The New Testament in Its World: An Introduction to the History, Literature, and Theology of First Christians. Jesus and the Powers: Christian Political Witness in an Age of Totalitarian Terro and Dysfunctional Democracies. The New Testament in Its World Workbook: An Introduction to the History, Literature, and Theology of the First Christians. The New Testament You Never Knew Bible Study Guide: Exploring the Context, Purpose, and Meaning of the Story of God. The New Testament in Its World: An Introduction to the History, Literature, and Theology of the First Christians. The Gospel of the Lord: How the Early Church Wrote the Story of Jesus, by N.T. Wright and Michael F. Bird. Related Resources: The Invasion of the Homoians: Trinity and Gender, Again! Fretting Over Phoebe

In this episode of Mutuality Matters, host Dr. Mimi Haddad continues her interview with guest Dr. Joel B. Green, an expert on the Gospel of Luke, about the portrayal of women in Luke's writings. Together they explore how these depictions challenge traditional gender roles and the importance of translation choices in understanding biblical messages about authority and equality. Dr. Green highlights the radical nature of Jesus' teachings and shares insights on how women in early Christianity were active participants in ministry. 00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters 00:26 Exploring the Gospel's View on Women 01:31 Mary: A Prototypical Disciple 04:03 Women in Luke's Gospel 06:20 Men and Women in Luke's World 13:02 The Role of Women in Early Christianity 14:42 Challenges in Complementarian Contexts 21:13 Translation Issues in Key Biblical Passages 29:47 Favorite Women-Friendly Bible Translations 34:36 Concluding Thoughts and Prayer Guest Bio Joel B. Green joined Fuller’s faculty in 2007 and has served several administrative posts: associate dean for the Center for Advanced Theological Studies (2008–2016, 2019–present), dean of the School of Theology (2014–2018), and provost (2016–2018). Prior to coming to Fuller, Dr. Green served for ten years at Asbury Theological Seminary as professor of New Testament interpretation, as dean of the School of Theology, and as provost. Previous faculty and academic-administrative appointments include the American Baptist Seminary of the West / Graduate Theological Union (1992–1997) and New College for Advanced Christian Studies Berkeley (1985–1992). Green has written or edited some 55 books, including 8 that have won awards: Connections: A Lectionary Commentary for Preaching and Worship, Year C, Volume 1, Advent through Epiphany (with Thomas Long, Luke Powery, and Cynthia Rigby, 2018), Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (2nd ed., 2013), Common English Bible Study Bible (2013), Dictionary of Scripture and Ethics (2011), In Search of the Soul: Four Views of the Mind-Body Problem (2nd ed., 2010), Introducing the New Testament: Its Literature and Theology (with Paul J. Achtemeier and Marianne Meye Thompson, 2001), The Gospel of Luke (1997), and Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (with Scot McKnight, 1992). Among his recent publications are Discovering Luke (2021), Luke as Narrative Theologian (2020), Conversion in Luke-Acts: Divine Initiative, Human Cognition, and the People of God (2015), Why Salvation? (2013), and The World of the New Testament: Cultural, Social and Historical Contexts (with Lee Martin McDonald, 2013). He is the editor of the New International Commentary on the New Testament, as well as the Two Horizons New Testament Commentary, and serves on the editorial boards of the Journal of Theological Interpretation, Theology and Science, and Science and Christian Belief. Green has been elected to membership in both Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas (SNTS) and the International Society for Science and Religion (ISSR). Related Resources Teach us, Mary: The Authority of Women Teachers in the Church in Light of the Magnificat (Luke 1:46–55): https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/teach-us-mary/ The Significance of Three Narrative Parallels of Men and Women in Luke 1, John 3–4, and Acts 9: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/raised-obscurity-narratival-and-theological-study-characterization-women-luke-acts/ Whose Wife Will She Be? A Feminist Interpretation of Luke 20:27–38: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/whose-wife-will-she-be-feminist-interpretation/

In this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosted by CBE International, Dr. Joel B. Green joins the conversation to discuss the importance of Bible translation and interpretation, emphasizing the inclusion of women in the process. Dr. Green, a seasoned Bible scholar and faculty administrator, shares his extensive career and insights on the subject. He underscores the necessity of diverse perspectives in translation teams, discusses common biases in Bible translations, and offers advice on how English readers can detect and overcome these biases. The episode also delves into the significance of various successful Bible translations, the training of translators, and the impact of denominational and gender diversity on the integrity of translations. 00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters 00:38 Meet Dr. Joel Green 02:22 Joel Green's Academic Journey 05:38 Challenges in Bible Scholarship 06:48 The Importance of Women in Bible Translation 12:23 Overcoming Translation Bias 19:38 Training and Selecting Bible Translators 27:13 Successful Bible Translations 34:38 Conclusion and Call to Action Guest Bio Joel B. Green joined Fuller’s faculty in 2007 and has served several administrative posts: associate dean for the Center for Advanced Theological Studies (2008–2016, 2019–present), dean of the School of Theology (2014–2018), and provost (2016–2018). Prior to coming to Fuller, Dr. Green served for ten years at Asbury Theological Seminary as professor of New Testament interpretation, as dean of the School of Theology, and as provost. Previous faculty and academic-administrative appointments include the American Baptist Seminary of the West / Graduate Theological Union (1992–1997) and New College for Advanced Christian Studies Berkeley (1985–1992). Green has written or edited some 55 books, including 8 that have won awards: Connections: A Lectionary Commentary for Preaching and Worship, Year C, Volume 1, Advent through Epiphany (with Thomas Long, Luke Powery, and Cynthia Rigby, 2018), Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (2nd ed., 2013), Common English Bible Study Bible (2013), Dictionary of Scripture and Ethics (2011), In Search of the Soul: Four Views of the Mind-Body Problem (2nd ed., 2010), Introducing the New Testament: Its Literature and Theology (with Paul J. Achtemeier and Marianne Meye Thompson, 2001), The Gospel of Luke (1997), and Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (with Scot McKnight, 1992). Among his recent publications are Discovering Luke (2021), Luke as Narrative Theologian (2020), Conversion in Luke-Acts: Divine Initiative, Human Cognition, and the People of God (2015), Why Salvation? (2013), and The World of the New Testament: Cultural, Social and Historical Contexts (with Lee Martin McDonald, 2013). He is the editor of the New International Commentary on the New Testament, as well as the Two Horizons New Testament Commentary, and serves on the editorial boards of the Journal of Theological Interpretation, Theology and Science, and Science and Christian Belief. Green has been elected to membership in both Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas (SNTS) and the International Society for Science and Religion (ISSR). Green has 12 years of pastoral ministry experience. Related Resources Intersectionality: Words Matter! Freedom through Lectionary and Bible Translation with Rev. Dr. Wilda C. Gafney: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/intersectionality-words-matter/ Women and Words: Comparing Bible Translations with Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-comparing-bible-translations/ Women and Words: Exploring Women’s Biblical Equality Through Bible Translation with Dr. Roy Ciampa https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-exploring-womens-biblical-equality-through-bible-translation/ Disclaimer The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

In this episode of the Mutuality Matters podcast from CBE International, hosts Mimi and Charel speak with Dr. Jeannine Brown who discusses the pressing need to interpret the Biblical text of 1 Peter 3:1–7 within its first-century Greco-Roman context. Dr. Brown emphasizes the importance of understanding the cultural and historical background behind the passages on submission, particularly 1 Peter 3:1–7. She explores how Peter's household codes provide agency to often marginalized groups like wives and slaves, contrary to the hierarchical norms of the time. The conversation underscores the relevance today of recognizing and respecting context while interpreting Biblical texts—an essential factor for both scholars and modern readers. 00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters 00:02 Exploring the Context of Submission in 1 Peter 00:49 Welcome and Introductions 01:33 Reading and Analyzing 1 Peter 3:1-7 02:57 Cultural Background and Interpretation 03:37 Household Codes in the Greco-Roman World 07:24 Missional Moments and Divided Households 08:20 Challenges for Christian Wives in the First Century 10:03 Slavery and Moral Agency in 1 Peter 11:28 Understanding Peter's Use of Household Codes 16:50 Modern Interpretations and Misconceptions 27:46 The Role of Headings in Biblical Interpretation 30:15 Instructions for Husbands in 1 Peter 3:7 36:30 Exploring Social and Physical Vulnerability 37:19 Interpreting 'Weaker Vessel' in Context 38:02 Challenging Traditional Views on Gender Roles 40:18 Co-Heirs and Inheritance in Early Christianity 41:50 Family Metaphors in 1 Peter 43:37 Egalitarian Impulses in the New Testament 45:28 Household Codes and Their Implications 50:08 Suffering for Good and Loyalty to Jesus 52:47 Translation Challenges and Responsibilities 58:01 Applying 1 Peter in Modern Contexts 01:04:03 Conclusion and Further Resources Guest Bio: Dr. Jeannine Brown Jeannine Brown is professor of New Testament at Bethel Seminary and Program Director of Bethel Seminary’s Online programs. Jeannine received in MA from Bethel Seminary, Saint Paul, MN. and her PhD from Luther seminary, Saint Paul, MN. Dr. Brown has taught at Bethel Seminary for over 20 years. She teaches in the areas of New Testament, Greek, hermeneutics, and integration. Dr. Brown has focused much of her research and writing on the Gospels, hermeneutics, and interdisciplinary integration. In addition to a book on biblical hermeneutics (Scripture as Communication, now in second edition) and two books on integration, she has published three commentaries on Matthew's Gospel and one on Philippians (Tyndale NT series). She is a member of the NIV translation team and is an editor for the NIV Study Bible, revised edition (2020). Her current writing projects include a commentary 1 Peter (NICNT) and book on themes in 1 Peter. Jeannine’s other published works include: Scripture as Communication (2021, 2007); The Gospels as Stories (2020); Relational Integration of Psychology and Christian Theology (2018); Becoming Whole and Holy: An Integrative Conversation about Christian Formation (2011); Embedded Genres in the New Testament: Understanding Their Impact for Interpretation and three commentaries on the Gospel of Matthew (2018, 2015, 2012). Jeannine Brown co-edited the second edition of Jesus and the Gospels (2013). She has published numerous journal articles and book essays on the Gospels of Matthew and John, 1 Peter, and topics of hermeneutics. Some of these have been published in Journal of Biblical Literature, New Testament Studies, Catholic Biblical Quarterly, and Horizons in Biblical Theology. Jeannine thoroughly enjoys teaching in churches and ministries on the topics of Bible interpretation and the New Testament. She is married to Tim Brown, singer-songwriter, and has two adult daughters. Story Notes Today’s podcast focused on 1 Pet 3:1–7. In the NIV it reads: "Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear. Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers." Exploring the cultural background, Jeannine suggests that Peter is calling Christians to display behaviors that reflect Christ ev

In episode of Mutuality Matters, hosted by Mimi Haddad and produced by CBE International, guest Mayra Ugalde addresses the importance of women's leadership and service in the church, as guided by biblical teachings. She emphasizes the necessity of obedience to Jesus over cultural obstacles and discusses the significance of both Old and New Testament scriptures in supporting women’s roles in ministry. The episode also explores the impact of failed interpretations and translation errors on women's roles in religious contexts. Additionally, it underscores the importance of personal biblical study and the need for Bible translations accessible to all languages and cultures. The conversation encourages women to fulfill their God-given purpose without fear of societal judgment. 00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks 00:23 Encouragement for Women in Ministry 00:56 Challenges in Biblical Interpretation 03:24 Biblical Support for Women's Leadership 03:49 The Importance of Service and Obedience 08:29 Recommendations for Bible Translations 11:53 Women in Scripture and Mission 12:31 Transformation Through Biblical Teachings 22:39 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell Related Resources Women and Words: From Oppression to Empowerment with Mayra Ugalde: Part 1 Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 2 Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 3 Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 4 The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

In this episode, Kim talks to Rt. Rev. Dr. Emily Onyango about the East Africa Revival Movement that began in 1927 and is still reverberating through East Africa today. Begun by two people praying for true faith in the Anglican church, the movement grew among laypeople to denominations across East Africa, challenging patriarchy, tribalism, and racism. Because one priest oversaw six or seven churches, women empowered by the spirit preached, shared their testimonies and lead their churches. They dressed in white to mark their new way of living, and today a few of these very elderly women still challenge and influence church leadership today. At the time of the revival, Kenya’s practice of polygamy was at an all-time high, yet these believers lived monogamous, egalitarian marriages. They sent their daughters to school in addition to their sons, and the changed the fabric of society. Today, the leaders against government corruption and tribal sectarianism have their roots in the East Africa Revival Movement. Guest Bio Right Rev. Dr. Emily Onyango is the first woman in the history of the Anglican Church in Kenya to be elected as bishop. She serves as senior lecturer and dean of students at St. Paul’s University in Limuru, Kenya. She earned a PhD from the University of Wales, as well as a Master of Theology from the Asian Center for Theological Studies and Mission in Seoul, South Korea, and a bachelor's degree from St. Paul’s University, Limuru. She is the author of Gender and Development: A History of Women’s Education in Kenya. CBE Resources: Women's History Month: The African Face of Global Evangelicalism by Mimi Haddad https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/womens-history-month-the-african-face-of-global-evangelicalism/ by Emily Onyango: Read: The Negative Consequences of Dowry Payment on Women and Society https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/negative-consequences-dowry-payment-women-and-society/ Watch: Working Towards Mutuality as a Mark of Christian Identity: A Case of the Work of the African Church for Biblical Equality https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/working-towards-mutuality-mark-christian-identity-case-work-african-church/ Listen: The Challenge of Gender Based Violence in Kenya and the Response of the Church https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/challenge-gender-based-violence-kenya-and-response-church/ The Challenge of the Resurgence of Negative Aspects of African Cultural Practices Among Christians in Kenya https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/challenge-resurgence-negative-aspects-african-cultural-practices-among/ Global Impact: The Work of Service Not Power in the Anglican Church of Kenya with Rt Rev Dr Emily Onyango https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/global-impact-work-service-not-power-anglican-church-kenya-rt-rev-dr-emily-onyango/ Disclaimer : The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

This episode of Mutuality Matters, hosted by CBE International, interviews Mayra Ugalde who delves into the significant role women played in Paul's ministry and offers insights into commonly misunderstood biblical passages used to limit women's roles in church and society. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding the cultural context of scripture, the equality in Christ beyond gender, and the mutual submission in Christian marriage. Various translations of key texts like Ephesians 5 and Genesis 3:16 are compared to highlight biases and interpretations. The episode concludes with a call to read the Bible holistically to grasp its true message of equality and mutuality in Christ. Timestamps 00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters 00:35 The Importance of Bible Translations 02:53 Women in the Bible: Lessons from Mark 03:54 Jesus' Acceptance of Women's Offerings 08:01 Encouragement for Women in Ministry 09:38 Women as Witnesses and Apostles 15:40 Addressing Difficult Bible Passages 24:46 Equality in Christ 25:37 Phoebe and Women Leaders in the Early Church 28:42 Biblical Texts on Marriage and Mutual Submission 39:36 Interpreting Genesis 3:16 43:17 The Role of Sin and Grace in the Bible 46:21 The Church as a Demonstration of God's Kingdom 48:35 Conclusion and Call to Action Related Resources Women and Words: From Oppression to Empowerment with Mayra Ugalde: Part 1 https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-from-oppression-to-empowerment-women-in-scripture/ Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 2 https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-the-intersection-of-culture-and-bible-translation/ Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 3 https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-the-intersection-of-culture-and-bible-translation-part-3/ Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

In this episode, Kim talks to Dr. Carmen Joy Imes about the women of Exodus. Dr. Imes brings her deep knowledge of Exodus to the average Christian audience, explaining how the structure and literary parallels of Exodus to show how the women are the rescuers of Moses, who then rescues the Hebrews. She provides the details of the midwives’ spiritual work of saving lives. She demonstrates how Pharaoh’s daughter displayed God’s character as she sees Moses’ misery, heard his cry, and took pity on him. She explains the Hebrew that illustrates how Miriam took a stand at the river to address Pharaoh’s daughter just as Moses later took a stand to address Pharaoh. And she explains how Zipporah literally saved Moses’ life as he decided which people group he belonged. Amidst these detailed portrayals of the Exodus women, Dr. Imes also points out the narrator’s use of humor to depict the bumbling and nameless Pharaoh. 00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters 00:02 Exploring the Role of Zipporah in Exodus 01:04 Meet Dr. Carmen Joy IMEs 02:06 The Mystery of Exodus 4:24-25 03:26 Theological and Structural Significance of Zipporah 14:33 The Role of Women in the Early Chapters of Exodus 21:49 Elevating Women in Scripture 22:00 A Word from CBE 22:37 The Women of Exodus: Zipporah, Pua, and Shiphrah 22:52 The Story of Moses' Birth and the Women Who Saved Him 32:07 Moses' Identity and His Encounter with God 39:37 Closing Thoughts and Resources 41:20 Final Remarks and How to Stay Connected Guest Bio Dr. Carmen Joy Imes is associate professor of Old Testament at Talbot School of Theology, Biola University, in Southern California. She is the author of Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters, Being God's Image: Why Creation Still Matters, and the forthcoming Becoming God's Family: Why the Church Still Matters. Carmen has a YouTube channel where she releases weekly Torah Tuesday videos and you can find her writing on various websites, including Christianity Today, The Well, and The Politics of Scripture blog. Carmen is passionate about equipping the church to engage the Old Testament well and to see its relevance for the Christian life. Find Dr. Carmen Imes at: X: @carmenjoyimes Bluesky: @carmenjoyimes.bsky.social YouTube – Torah Tuesday: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6bwfe08fufzGaY2YImWQK12Ye7VX15X2 Resources Mentioned in the Interview: Becoming God's Family: Why the Church Still Matters Being God's Image: Why Creation Still Matters Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters Every Woman’s Bible published by Tyndale Other CBE Resources: Defiant: What the Women of Exodus Teach Us About Freedom by Kelley Nikondeha. “Rational and Emotional Faith” by Megan Greulich in Mutuality “Who’s Who? Biblical Models of Women in Leadership” by Gracy Ying May in Priscilla Papers “Black is Blessed: A Study of Black/African Women and Men in Scripture” by Catherine Clark Kroeger in Priscilla Papers “Defiant: What the Women of Exodus Teach us about Freedom” by Mary Lou Wiley a Book Review on Defiant Women in Scripture and Mission: Zipporah by Kimberly Dickson Women in Scripture and Mission: Miriam by Kimberly Dickson Women in Scritpure and History: Puah and Shiphrah by Kimberly Dickson Disclaimer The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

In this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosted by CBE International, the focus is on the significance of Bible translation and its impact on women's lives worldwide, especially in Latin America. Special guest Maya Ugalde, honorary director of the Bible Society of Costa Rica, shares her extensive experience in Bible publishing and distribution. The discussion covers the importance of diverse translation teams, avoiding biases, and the role of traditional translations in fostering a deeper connection with God. 00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters 01:19 Welcoming Our Esteemed Guest: Maya 02:48 The Importance of Diverse Translation Teams 05:49 Overcoming Bias in Bible Translations 10:38 Successful Bible Translations: A Global Perspective 16:42 The Role of Traditional Language in Bible Reading 28:46 The Spirit in the Text: Engaging with God's Word 31:00 Critical Thinking in Bible Translations 35:37 Conclusion and Future Discussions Guest Bio Mayra currently serves as Honorary Director of the Bible Society of Costa Rica, where she serves in different areas of the publishing, promoting, and distribution of the Bible all over Costa Rica for more of 43 years. Mayra also serves on the Publishing Committee for the United Bible Society where she participates in developing and publishing different study Bibles and specifically in the developing of the Bible for Latin American women that’s called The Women in the Bible and also a Bible for adult women that was called The Bible I Adore. Mayra has an MBA in Administration, and a postgraduate degree in Bible. She publishes articles in national newspapers and nowadays writes devotionals and blogs leading readers to interact with the Bible. Related Resources Women and Words: From Oppression to Empowerment with Mayra Ugalde: Part 1 Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 2 How American Evangelicalism Has Been Weaponized Against Women IJM’s Fight Against Gender-Based Violence in Latin America with Brad Twedt Disclaimer The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

In this episode, Kim talks to Rev Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt about Mary Magdalene. She discusses the Biblical witness of Mary Magdalene, and what happened historically to Mary so that she came to be understood as a prostitute. She also discusses the meaning of Apostle and why the Eastern and Western churches remember Mary Magdalene as an apostle to the apostles. Bio Rev. Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt is the Franklin S. Dyrness professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at Wheaton College. She is an award-winning author, fellow in the Royal Historical Society, and ordained teaching elder in the Presbyterian church. Her latest books are Know the Theologians (Zondervan, 2024), a finalist in the 2024 CT Book Awards for Popular Theology, and The Mary We Forgot (Brazos, 2024). She and her husband co-founded McNuttshell Ministries that seeks to serve as a bridge between the church and academy. Find Rev, Dr Jennifer McNutt Substack: The McNuttshell https://substack.com/@jenniferpowellmcnutt Contact: https://jenniferpowellmcnutt.com McNuttshell Ministries: https://mcnuttshellministries.com Scripture References Woman identified as “Sinner Woman” that gets conflated with Mary Magdalene: Luke 7 Highlighting women with Jesus, part of his ministry, traveling with Jesus: Luke Chapter 8:1-3 Scriptural definition of Apostles: 1 Cor 15, 1 John 1, Mary’s Message and Being Sent: John 20, Matthew 28, Luke 23-24, Acts 1 Other Resources Mentioned in Interview: Scholars who have investigated Roman system of patronage: Lynn Cohick, Amy Brown Hughs, Susan Highland CBE Resources: Book Review of Jennifer Powell McNutt’s, The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostle Teaches the Church Today by Kimberly Dickson Women in Scripture and History: Mary Magdalene by Kimberly Dickson To learn about the Middle Eastern culture and its impact on the movements of men versus women and children, see: “God’s Word to Middle Eastern Women,” by Kevin Zabihi in Mutuality, October 20, 2021. “Christ is Risen: The Nonsense of a Hysterical Woman,” by Chesna Hinkley in Mutuality April 15, 2020. “Frequently Asked Questions about Mary Magdalene,” by Lidija Novakovic in Prisicilla Papers, June 5, 2006. Disclaimer The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

This episode of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by CBE International, features an in-depth discussion with Mayra Ugalde, the Honorary Director of the Bible Society of Costa Rica. Mayra shares her perspective on growing up in a Latin family with traditional gender roles and delves into the complexities of Bible translation. She emphasizes the importance of diverse translation teams to avoid bias and promote a holistic understanding of Scripture. The episode also touches on the historical and cultural contexts in biblical narratives and highlights the significant roles women have played in both the Old and New Testaments. Through shared expertise, listeners are encouraged to engage with the Bible personally and critically, guided by the Holy Spirit and informed by a community of believers. 00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters 01:29 Welcome and Guest Introduction 03:05 Complexities of Bible Translation 05:42 Diverse Perspectives in Translation 11:22 The Role of Commentaries in Bible Reading 14:38 Women and the Bible: Cultural Contexts 20:29 Women Leaders in Christianity 30:00 Boaz and Ruth: A Cultural Example 35:16 Conclusion and Future Episodes Guest Bio Mayra currently serves as Honorary Director of the Bible Society of Costa Rica, where she serves in different areas of the publishing, promoting, and distribution of the Bible all over Costa Rica for more of 43 years. Mayra also serves on the Publishing Committee for the United Bible Society where she participates in developing and publishing different study Bibles and specifically in the developing of the Bible for Latin American women that’s called The Women in the Bible and also a Bible for adult women that was called The Bible I Adore. Mayra has an MBA in Administration, and a postgraduate degree in Bible. She publishes articles in national newspapers and nowadays writes devotionals and blogs leading readers to interact with the Bible. Related Resources Women and Words: From Oppression to Empowerment with Mayra Ugalde: Part 1 How American Evangelicalism Has Been Weaponized Against Women IJM’s Fight Against Gender-Based Violence in Latin America with Brad Twedt Disclaimer The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

In this episode, we’re joined by Rev. Dr. Emily McGowin, professor of theology at Wheaton College and author of the new book Households of Faith, to discuss the theology of family. Guest Bio The Rev. Dr. Emily McGowin is associate professor of theology at Wheaton College. She is also a priest and canon theologian in the Anglican diocese of Churches for the Sake of Others (C4SO). Her latest book, Households of Faith: Practicing Family in the Kingdom of God is now available for pre-order from IVP. Dr. McGowin earned a Ph.D. in theology from the University of Dayton, M.Div. from Baylor University’s Truett Seminary, and a B.A. in biblical studies from Criswell College. She has been teaching theology in university, high school, and local church settings for almost 20 years. She is married to Ron and they have three teen children. Together they enjoy exploring forest preserves and playing Dungeons & Dragons. Follow Emily on Facebook, Instagram, and X Visit Emily’s Website Buy a copy of Households of Faith Related Resources Mutuality Matters: A Theology of Family + An Apocalyptic Advent How One Church Is Growing Toward Full Biblical Mutuality Culture, Gender, and the Family Disclaimer The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters 00:02 Cultural Background and Personal Story 01:33 Guest Introduction: Mayra Ugalde 03:24 Mayra's Experience with the Bible 07:22 Impact of the Bible on Women's Lives 13:41 Challenges and Misinterpretations 16:40 Mayra's Work and Contributions 21:38 Jesus's View of Women 24:02 Translation vs. Interpretation 43:49 God's Maternal Love 52:11 Conclusion and Resources Speaking as a Christian born, raised and in the Latin culture where she continues to work, Mayra explores the complex influence and tension between Bible translation and culture, including Bible culture. Mayra observes how often culture and church tradition have more influence than one’s one reading of Scripture. Mayra briefly explores the history of Christianity in Latin America with the influence of the Catholic church. It wasn’t until 1966 that the dominant religion opened opportunities for lay people to read Scripture, on their own. At this time, the British and Foreign Bible Society distributed these throughout Latin America. As people began to read the Bible, they began to change some of their perspectives. Mayra’s mother believed her daughters should serve their brothers. Mayra’s father treated her brothers as kings. Her father said women should have and raise children. Life’s work was defined by gender. Mayra met a man who did not believe girls and women should read the Bible without a man in the room. Reading scripture for herself, Mayra found Sheerah’s story (1 Chron. 7:20–24) empowering Though Sheerah’s father was disgraced by having a daughter, Scripture notes that her name means “At least one woman”; and this one daughter--Sheerah brought honor to her family and nation by building two large, strategic, and successful cities. While people believe that God’s word says negative things about females, if read well, Scripture challenges gender bias by honoring women like Sheerah as strong rescuers. Throughout her career, Mayra noticed how Bible translations and commentaries teams were produced by scholars holding to a single perspective. From this she learned the importance of including scholars that honor the authority of Scripture yet hold diverse perspectives on key issues. Mayra reminds us that the Holy Spirit guides us as we read Scripture. This is especially true and crucial for women who too often are told by pastors what the Scripture says about women. But by reading the text themselves, the Spirit can liberate women from cultural, church and denominational gender bias. Women in the Church have to read the Bible for themselves to hear the Lord speaking to them because the pastors are not God, as Paul said about the people from Berea, in Acts 17:11 “... Day after day they studied the Scriptures to see if these things were true.” It is fascinating how Jesus interpreted Scripture, introducing woman as the “daughter of Abraham” at a time when women were not considered equal heirs with the “sons of Abraham.” Luke’s Gospel is very clear about the welcome Jesus gave to women. Mayra discusses the importance of understanding Bible translation as a science. Skilled translators understand Bible culture and realize that Scripture was written by about 40 authors over 1,200 years. In lapses of time like this, there were vast changes in the culture; in languages; and in the people’s views. The Bible is a collection of books of many authors from many differing cultures, many of whom did not know each other. It’s important to understand the unique culture of each text we read and to understand what is applicable for us today. Consider the story of Vashti (Esther 1.15-20) as it honors how Vashti challenged the cultural expectation that a wife obeys their husband in everything even as he asks her to do something morally reprehensible. Vashti resisted evil. Her expectation was that her husband would behave as Paul notes in Ephesians 5:25-33. When you read the Bible, you need to recognize the historical and cultural context of the text, as every culture upholds good and permits evil. Mayra considers the story of Hagar and Gen 1:26–27 (woman is created in God’s image); Gal 3:26–30 that being clothed in Christ is our highest identity regardless of race, class or gender; that Jesus found women who suffered (in Samaria and Syrophoenicia) and he freed and gave women respect, dignity and empowerment. Mayra explored the Motherly Love of God as it heals the church, especially women. God’s Motherly Love is noted in: Gen. 3:8–21 when God sewed clothes (like a mother) for Adam and Eve, after they sinned and were naked and afraid. God does not abandon his son and daughter after they sin but sends them his maternal love. God loves us from his depth, from the bottom of his heart. God has maternal love for his creation, and for the human being. In Hosea 11:3–4 Like a mother, God took Israel by the arm and taught them to walk. But they would not admit that I was the one who had healed them. 4 I led them with kindness and with love

Married couple Kelsey and Dane Schuett are together…a lot. Not only do they serve on the same church staff team, but they also serve alongside one another in mission with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. Most importantly, they are co-parenting their young son Leo. In this episode, hosts Rob and Layla are joined by Dane and Kelsey who invite listeners into their theological journeys, the joys and struggles of partnering together, and their vision for an egalitarian community where “people get our best, not our must.” Guest Bios Kelsey and Dane Schuett are campus staff ministers with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship at UC Santa Barbara and Santa Barbara City College. They are also pastors at New Life Church Santa Barbara. Kelsey and Dane live here in Santa Barbara, CA, with their one-year-old son, Leo. They both love coffee, the beach, sit-coms, our InterVarsity students, music and worship, and our awesome faith community! Kelsey Schuett’s sermon: https://nlcsb.org/media/r9fsvmv/advent-week-2 Related Resources Leading Together in Christ: A Biblical View of Authority Leading Together: Lessons From Sharing Leadership in Ministry and Marriage Women and Men Leading Together: “Exchanging a Muzzle for a Microphone” with Rici and Phil Skei Disclaimer The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

This episode is a part of a segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology––dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society. In this special two-part interview, we’re joined by Zachary C. Wagner, director of programs for the Center for Pastor Theologians and author of Non-Toxic Masculinity, to discuss the role unhelpful views of masculinity impact how women and men function together. Guest Bio Zachary Wagner is a writer, researcher, and ordained minister––thinker of thoughts and feeler of feelings who lives in Chicagoland. He is pursuing a DPhil (PhD) in New Testament studies at Keble College, University of Oxford. He also serves as the director of Programs for the Center for Pastor Theologians, where he co-hosts the CPT Podcast. His research interests include economics in the ancient world, divine wages in Second Temple Judaism and early Christianity, Pauline epistles, the Gospel of Matthew, and New Testament masculinities. His first book, Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality, was published in 2023 with Intervarsity Press. Zach’s other writing interests include evangelical and “post-vangelical” Christian discipleship, theological formation, and speaking against church-based abuse. Buy Zachary’s book, Non-Toxic Masculinity Follow Zachary on Instagram and X Read “Broken Masculinity” on the Center for Pastor Theologians Related Resources New Voices: Non-Toxic Masculinity with Zachary Wagner Let God Reign: Ditching the Umbrellas of Hierarchy Let’s Stop Talking about Masculinity and Start Talking about Discipleship Disclaimer The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

In the second episode, Dr. Mimi Haddad meets with Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer to explore key ways Scripture goes against the grain of culture. While some scholars uphold Bible cultural as the moral standard, Aída encouraged readers to begin in the New Testament. For example, in the story of Martha and Mary (Luke 10:38-42), Martha was anxious that Mary would help her serve the disciples a meal. But Jesus said, “Martha, Martha … You are worried and upset about many things, but few things are needed—or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.” Jesus reversed women’s priorities from domestic spheres to theological spheres: learn God’s truth. Paul also said, in 1 Tim 2:11, “A woman should learn in quietness (silence) and full submission.” Insisting on women’s silence was/is a to call women to learn as the theological scholars (Rabbis) did at the time of Christ, in silence—with rapt focus. Aída believes we need more scholarly reflection on women and silence in Scripture. Aída ends with a warning to always view people as created in God’s image and considers passages also embrace the shared dignity and agency of women. Reflecting on the marginalization for Native Americans who were accused of and punished for alleged idol worship, by white colonizes who believed they were given the US given as theocracy, Aída and her husband William David Spencer address both topic in a powerful article titled, Calling on God or Colonial Oppression. Aída addresses the leadership of women in the early church, with a focus on context. Whereas women’s leadership in Ephesus was different from women in other contexts, like women planting churches like Lydia in Greece. Aída ends by reflecting on Helen Barrett Montgomery (1861-1934) was elected the first president of national Woman’s American Baptist Foreign Mission Society. She was also elected the first president (and woman) of an American denomination, the Northern Baptist Convention in 1920. She’s also the first woman to translate the New Testament in 1924. Her translation of Roman 16:1-3—interpreted Pheobe as a “minister” and “overseer,” yet it has taken so very long for other translators to see the same biblical truth (in 1843). Barrett Montgonery’s The New Testament in Modern English was republished in 1952, and translated Romans 16:1-2: “I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a minister of the church at Cenchreae. I beg you to give her a Christian welcome, as the saints should, and to assist her in any matter in which she may have need of you. for she herself has been made an overseer to many people, including myself.” Prostateo, the verb meaning to be leader or ruler of, hold office, authority for providing, regent (Liddell & Scott’s classical dictionary). Guest Bio Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer, Ph.D., Th.M., M.Div., is Senior Professor of New Testament at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, S. Hamilton, MA. Born and reared in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, she has served as community organizer, minister, and educator in a variety of urban and suburban settings. She has over 200 publications, including 20 books, among these are commentaries of James, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 Peter, and 2 Corinthians and books encouraging women in leadership, such as Beyond the Curse: Women Called to Ministry, Global Voices on Biblical Equality, Christian Egalitarian Leadership, The Goddess Revival: A Biblical Response to Goddess Spirituality, Marriage at the Crossroads, and the novel Cave of Little Faces. An ordained Presbyterian minister, she is married to the Rev. Dr. William David Spencer. Their blog is entitled Applying Biblical Truths Today. They have one adult son, Stephen. Related Resources Creating Gender-Accurate Bible Translations Video: Gender-Accurate Bible Translation Panel Presumption, Bias, and Gender Accuracy in Bible Translation

In this episode, Kim talks to Dr. Boaz Johnson about the Indian scholar and activist Pandita Ramabai. Through this interview we hear both about Dr. Johnson’s own background growing up in India and how the writings of Pandita Ramabai influenced his own faith. As the interview unfolds, we follow the progression of Ramabai’s own life from being an orphaned Hindu whose father secretly taught her the Hindu religious scriptures to becoming a Christian challenging and re-translating the poor bible translations. Always a rule breaker, Pandita Ramabai left a legacy of how to stand for the truth of God’s word. Guest Bio Rev. Boaz Johnson (PhD, Trinity International University and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) is a professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at North Park University in Chicago, IL. His writing has appeared in publications such as Christianity Today and The Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society. Resources by Dr. Boaz Johnson Mutuality Matters podcast: Women and Words: Women Pioneers in Bible Translation with Dr. Boaz Johnson Mutuality Magazine: Pandita Ramabai's Legacy: How Gender Conscious Bible Translation Impacts Christian Ministry CBE International Conference Audios: Pandita Ramabai: India and the Pandemic, Plague, Plight of Women with Boaz Johnson at the 2020 CBE International Conference Male, Female, Slave, and Free in the Context of a Pandemic: In the Thought of Katharine Bushnell at the 2022 CBE International Conference Related Resources Words Matter: How a Corrected Bible Translation Transformed a Community by Kimberly Dickson The Theological Quest of an Indian Woman: Dogma, Doubts, and Debates in Pandita Ramabai’s Early Christian Life Caste and Gender in India: The Bakht Singh Assemblies and Egalitarianism Radio: Women in Scripture and Mission Disclaimer The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.