Life with God: A Renovaré Podcast

Spiritual director and author Alice Fryling believes aging is an invitation from God to embrace our limitations and discover fruitfulness and transformation in unexpected places. Show Notes[2:13] What was it like for you to write this book?[5:07] As you’ve been aging, what has been happening in your soul?[7:56] It’s interesting that the idea of living within our limitations is seen as a negative and something to be fought. Is part of aging learning to live within the limitations that have now presented themselves?[9:58] As you are talking about your limitations, you’re smiling. How have you gotten to that place where this is not something to be fought and hated, but embracing where you’re at?[14:29] In the book you talk about productivity and fruitfulness. Can you share about those things?[17:51] Do you have a word for folks who are really struggling with navigating aging?[25:57] Why do we fight growing older?[27:52] You wrote a book on the Enneagram. How is that helpful in aging?ResourcesAging Faithfully: The Holy Invitation of Growing Older, by Alice FrylingMirror for the Soul: A Christian Guide to the Enneagram, by Alice FrylingAlice's Website

How do we thoughtfully monitor and moderate our consumption of media? How can we fill our minds with what is good and beautiful rather than simply go to media to escape? This episode with Paul Patton—author, playwright, and professor emeritus at Spring Arbor—dives into these questions.Show Notes[2:38] I really liked the subtitle you guys came up with for the book. The book is Everyday Sabbath: How to Lead Your Dance with Media and Technology in Mindful and Sacred Ways. It’s a wonderful way to say everything that’s in the book. Tell us a little about the book.[6:32] Could you unpack a little when you say “dance with pop culture?”[8:27] Part of what I’m hearing in this dance is to be intentional, to not be a victim. How have you learned to take the lead in the dance?[9:45] So if I conclude that I’m scrolling through stuff for reward or relief, does that mean I stop?[11:00] One of the things I appreciate about the book is that this is road tested. The other piece I found helpful is the practices. Could you talk a little bit about how spiritual practices tie into our dance with pop culture?[18:53] Do we know how to steward our boredom?[20:10] Historically, when has the term binge ever been positive?[22:08] A while back we did a podcast on your habit of memorizing, of stewarding the stirrings of your soul. Are you still doing this?ResourcesEveryday Sabbath: How to Lead Your Dance with Media and Technology in Mindful and Sacred Ways, by Paul Patton and Robert Woods, Jr.Renovaré Podcast Episodes with Paul Patton: Leading the Dance with Pop Culture, Story and the Importance of Memorization, We All Have SecretsSoul Stirrings Podcast with Paul Patton

In this week’s episode of the Renovaré Podcast, Nathan talks with Charles Moore, of Plough Publishing, about his upcoming book, Following the Call: Living the Sermon on the Mount Together.Show Notes[2:55] Why is the Sermon on the Mount so important to you at the Bruderhof community?[7:18] Tell me a little about your process of making decisions about what to put in the book and what not to.[10:40] I I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I have failed to grasp how this really was spoken to community and meant to be lived out in community. I'm really curious to hear what that looks like for you guys to try and live this out, and practically, day to day what this looks like.[14:55] In compiling all the essays, were there new insights that you gained personally or different ways in which you begin to see the sermon on the Mount?[19:05] Do you have a favorite?[21:08] Give me your hope for readers. What is your hope for this book?[24:00] Could you let people know a little about Plough? ResourcesFollowing the Call: Living the Sermon on the Mount TogetherBruderhof Community

Nathan Foster talks with Rich Villodas, lead pastor of New Life Fellowship in Queens, New York, about his book The Deeply Formed Life, which is the first selection of the 2021-22 Renovaré Book Club.Show Notes[2:08] Your church has a logo of an iceberg. What’s that about?[4:28] Tell us about your book, The Deeply Formed Life.[8:03] Could you talk about each section of the book?Contemplative PracticesRacial Justice and ReconciliationSexual WholenessMissional Presence[28:12] How was writing this book helpful for you?ResourcesThe Deeply Formed LifeRenovaré Book Club

In this edited version of a June 2021 webinar conversation, spiritual directors and authors Trevor Hudson and Jan Johnson talk with Carolyn Arends about Christian spiritual direction. They contrast it with counseling, discuss if it's for everyone, and recommend where to find a director.For spiritual direction resources and the full unedited replay, visit the webinar page.Browse previous Renovaré Podcast conversations with Jan Johnson and Trevor Hudson

In this talk from the 1999 Renovaré International Conference in Houston, following an entertaining introduction by James Bryan Smith, Richard Foster outlines the practical means by which we grow in grace.

Jill Weber is a prayer missionary and author who for the last five years has been establishing a new monastic community at the Waverley Abbey Estate in the U.K. Her desire is to cultivate "thin spaces" where Jesus is loved.Show Notes[2:12] Could you share with us about the Waverly project you’ve been working on for the past 5 years, and also about Order of the Mustard Seed.[10:45] What does it look like for you personally to hold those practices and values in front of you.[19:50] What do you say to people who are carrying a lot and not having room to go beyond their own family or the struggles that they are in? A friend of mine (Bill Vaswig) taught me much about prayer. When I go into certain spaces where there is so much suffering, and I’m just overwhelmed by it and don’t know what to do, he said, “Nate, you’re supposed to pray. You see all this so you can pray. Just walk around and lift them up.”[25:25] What is your hope for the community at this old abbey; what would you like to see happen in the years to come?[33:28] How does discernment work in your community? When you make a decision to move forward, what does that process look like?[40:35] You can extend this to a church, ministry, family, or small group, to pause and ask if there are apologies that need to be made or repentance. God seems so intent on his children playing well together.ResourcesJill Weber on Episode 187: Holy Disruption24-7 PrayerOrder of the Mustard SeedRuth Haley Barton, Pursuing God’s Will TogetherRichard Foster, Prayer: Finding the Heart’s True HomeTransforming CenterThe Prayer of RelinquishmentToday, O Lord, I yield myself to you.May your will be my delight today.May you have perfect sway in me.May your love be the pattern of my living.I surrender to you my hopes, my dreams, my ambitions.Do with them what you will, when you will, as you will.I place into your loving care my family, my friends, my future.Care for them with a care that I can never give.I release into your hands my need to control, my craving for status, my fear of obscurity.Eradicate the evil, purify the good, and establish your Kingdom on earth.For Jesus’ sake,Amen.

In this episode, Nathan interviews Alan Fadling of Unhurried Living, Kristi Gaultiere of Soul Shepherding, and Steve Macchia of Leadership Transformations to discuss spiritual formation and soul care for leaders.Show Notes[5:45] Why leaders? What was it in you that you felt to compelled to move in that direction?[9:55] What are some of the challenges that leaders in the Christian community face today?[13:20] I’d take it a little further and say that in our current society it’s a virtue not to rest, to keep pushing through. How does a leader break out of that system that is pulling them do to more and more, and of being more closed, of not sharing or not feeling safe or that there is space to share?[18:10] All three of you provide safe spaces for people. What would you say to someone who's not connected to a program or ministry that’s caring for their soul, who really wants to be open, vulnerable, honest? How do you do that when you’re surrounded in a community that needs you to have everything together?[25:17] When we rest or slow down, sometimes emotions come up, and that’s quite normal. This is a unique season in history that is an opportunity for a reset, a chance to make some shifts. How can lay folk best help their leaders?[31:45] What is the Biblical view of sabbatical?[33:00] These 3 pieces of covenant and support and sabbatical – What if elder boards demanded a sort of health; not just encouraging sabbatical (and boundaries and rest and health) but demanding it, setting it as a way we’re going to be as a ministry. I think sometimes people just need a little permission to move into some of this.[37:25] Do you have any thoughts for leaders or families on how to do this well?[42:50] Can you paint a picture of a leader who’s doing things well, who’s functioning with health and being effective for the Kingdom. What does their life look like?[47:26] How do you guys, as leaders, care for your soul?Guest WebsitesAlan Fadling at Unhurried LivingKristi Gaultiere at Soul ShepherdingSteve Macchia at Leadership Transformations

Mark Scandrette talks with Nathan Foster about seeing the world the way Jesus did, the hidden wisdom in the Beatitudes, and applying the Sermon on the Mount to everyday life.Show Notes[1:10] What was Jesus doing with these weird sayings, these Beatitudes?[2:15] How do you think it was received by the hearers?[4:38] In your work, you have 2 lines: “this is a new way to be human,” and “a journey back to reality.” Where do you take the Beatitudes for us today?[6:15] Could you address this idea of our first instincts and new postures?[11:40] Is there one that has been the most challenging or difficult?[20:35] Is there a movement toward a practical practice as we move into this reality?[22:50] This book was born out of practical labs. Can you tell us a little about that?[25:50] What would you like to see happen for those who read the book?[26:35] In your travels around the world, what have you picked up from Christians around the world that would be helpful for us in the West?ResourcesMark Scandrette’s WebsiteThe Ninefold Path of Jesus: Hidden Wisdom of the BeatitudesThe Ninefold Path Learning Lab

In this episode, philosopher J.P. Moreland shares honestly about his experience with severe anxiety, and the spiritual practices that helped him receive receive God's peace.[1:08] I’m really interested to know how a philosophy professor ends up writing a book on anxiety and depression.[3:53] The other thing you do that I found really helpful is that you address a lot of concerns that Christians might have about mental health or medication or self-compassion. Have you found that to be well-received or have you gotten pushback from that?[5:35] One of the pieces that I found really helpful in the book is you continue to go back to all these practices and very practical things that have worked for you, yet leaving it open for not being totally prescriptive for people. I'm curious to hear a little about your journey with contemplative prayer and how that has helped you with anxiety.[8:00] Could you say a little about the four-step solution process?[16:50] What was it like to crash for all those months? Are you healed?[22:10] How important were Biblical passages for you?[22:40] What would you say to someone listening who is really struggling with anxiety and maybe has some self-condemnation or shame around it?[28:45] For folks who have friends and family, spouses, that are struggling with anxiety, is there a word you might have for the best way they can love each other through this?Resources by J.P. Moreland:Finding Quiet: My Story of Overcoming Anxiety and the Practices that Brought Peacejpmoreland.com

From the Renovaré 1999 international conference, Dallas Willard talks about what it means for our lives to become eternal—to be caught up into God's life.

One of the highlights of attending a Renovaré conference back in the 1990s and 2000s was George Skramstad leading songs and hearing his "History of Worship" presentation from the piano. Nathan talks with George about worship as expressed in music and life.Show Notes[3:35] How did you get into music professionally?[6:32] What do you like about music?[8:00] When you are leading worship, what do you hope is happening?[10:57] Why is the word worship synonymous with music?[12:34] You’ve created a masterpiece that we get to talk about today, and I’m very curious to know how this came to be.[15:48] Why do you think is helpful for folks to catch this big picture of the worship of Christians through the ages?[17:58] Do you have a favorite era in church music?ResourcesGeorge's six part presentation The History of Worship.Article: The Story of WorshipArticle: Finding the Heart of Worship

Luci Shaw's zest for life is contagious. At 92, the poet and writer is still discovering and creating. She talks with Nathan Foster about her new book, The Generosity, her creative process, and her close friendship with Madeleine L'Engle.Show Notes[2:40] Where did the title of new book, Angels Everywhere, come from?[3:37] The Generosity – where did that title come from?[7:55] Would it be safe to say that your dad was a kind of inspiration and helped encourage you as a poet?[12:48] How has your writing as a poet changed through the years?[15:21] How would you like people to read your poetry?[16:42] In which Luci reads a poem she wrote yesterday called April.This day,this springy day,I claim the never-endingSky for ceilingAnd in the little rooms of my lifeI cultivate seasonsAs if they are flowering vinesGrowing across my bedspread.And grapes maybe,Or seeds,Our promises of JulySleeping undergroundWaking and awakeningA green resurrection.On all our ancient treesRising sapHas thickened the twigsUntil they sprout a thousandHoney colored catechinsHeavy enough to swing in the wind,Flinging in the bursts of wild airTheir lusty spores.Pollen,Though it may be an affliction,Promotes new lifeAnd the cherry trees explodingWith their frothy pink blossoms.It is all joy,All gratitude,All grace.[19:42] What was it like working with Madeleine L’Engle?[22:45] In which Luci reads a poem she also wrote yesterday called Daybook:This day is a book still unfolding,a suspense novel—we recognize the genrewith clues from the morning paper.We are beguiled by the headlinesof sun struck cloudsand dew wet enoughto rinse our hands in.The plot is original.We can only guesshow it will turn out.So we follow the narrative arc,reading it throughthe burn and blaze of high noonall the way to the last page.Until like an ancient writerthe night writes finiand the stars endorsethe grateful author.[24:51] What would you say to folks who are thinking of writing poetry or beginning?[30:26] In which Luci reads Pilgrim from The Generosity:Meaning is a landscapeOf boulders.There, ahead of you,A thorny wilderness.You cannot leap over it. YouMust conquer it stone by stone.To traverse it,You must find sure footingAnd fortitudeIn uncertain weather,Your fear like metalIn your mouth.And yes, it is possibleTo walk the knife edge of longing,A blade narrowAs the path to heaven.ResourcesCosmos from Chaos: Renovaré Webinar with Luci Shaw and Andrew PetersonLuci Shaw's WebsiteThe Generosity from Publisher or on AmazonAngels EverywherePeople Luci mentions:Clyde KilbyMark Jarman, poetAndrew Hudgins, poetCarolyn Forché, poetEugene Peterson, The Message (esp. Psalm and Wisdom book)Winn Collier, A Burning in My Bones (Eugene Peterson biography)

James Catford, board chair at Renovaré and SPCK (UK's largest Christian publisher), talks to Nathan about a wonderfully practical book with an austere title: William Law's A Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life.James is facilitating the Renovaré Book Club starting in April 2021.In the episode, you'll hear Richard Foster and Dallas Willard introducing the book at the 1999 Renovaré International Conference.Show Notes[10:32] How has William Law’s book been helpful to you?[12:45] How did the intersection of work and spiritual life play out for you?[14:59] Did you find integration?[20:53] In a culture that wouldn’t be drawn to the title, ironically there is grace in this.[22:16] What are some of the considerations, culturally, that people should come at this book with?[24:40] He presents the idea that everything is sacred. Where does beauty come in?[26:36] How does Law’s view of holiness lend itself to engaging with beauty, or does it?[29:15] In a sense this is a work that helps us move closer into being people who function well.ResourcesA Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life (this is the version being used for the Renovaré Book Club)O Worship the Lord in the Beauty of Holiness

Writer, teacher, and pastor Keith Matthews had the unique opportunity to teach beside Dallas Willard for 18 years. Pastors and students who had read Dallas would often come and say: "We know his writing is special, but we're here to find out if he's for real."In this episode, Nathan and Keith discuss Dallas Willard's thoughts on character, his legacy, and the work being carried on through Dallas Willard Ministries, the Dallas Willard School of Kingdom Living, and the newly formed Dallas Willard Publishing.Show Notes[6:00] Tell me the story of when you first met Dallas.[9:50] What did you learn from him?[14:20] He was once asked what one of the defining characteristics of Jesus life was, and he answered with the word relaxed, is that correct?[19:35] Many people have picked up and are working with his work and ideas. Are you encouraged by that? Do you see holes or things that are lacking?[22:00] What does that look like for you, living daily with Christ?[23:40] On Dallas Willard Publications, how is it going and are there books in the works? Do you have a favorite Dallas book, or one you would recommend to people who have not read him before?[28:40] Tell us about the Dallas Willard School of Kingdom Living.ResourcesThe Divine ConspiracyThe Great OmissionRenewing the Christian MindDallas Willard MinistriesSchool of Kingdom Living

"Let's all get maladjusted to a world gone mad," sings Carolyn Arends. In this episode, she shares two songs from her new album—"Maladjusted" and "To Cry for You"—and the stories behind them. You can find Carolyn's music at her website, CarolynArends.com.Show Notes[1:00] Tell us about your new album Recognition. Many of the songs feel like Renovaré-birthed songs.[4:30] Did I have something to do with the idea behind the song Maladjusted?[7:30] How do you decipher a cultural value that is not necessarily a kingdom value? How do you sift through what you should adjust to and what you shouldn't?[12:40] Carolyn plays Malajusted[14:25] What is behind the song To Cry for You?[20:40] Grief is a good topic to be talking about now as people talk about our experience with the pandemic as grief. One of my favorite quotes is "feelings always come out." There is something about allowing ourselves to be in the suffering that births an ability to be in the blessing, the goodness, the gift.[24:15] Carolyn plays To Cry for You[25:50] Look for Carolyn’s new project – In the Morning - an acoustic worship album with songs that help unlock our hearts to what God wants to do in our midst.ResourcesCarolynArends.com

In this episode, Nathan asks candid questions about race: What's your experience of being black in America? What do you want white people to know? What is the Church's role? Tina Dyer, a racial equi­ty, diver­si­ty, strate­gist and now Renovaré Board member, answers with honesty and humility.

Eric Peterson used to hide from people who his dad was. Not that he was ashamed—his dad is his hero, as you'll hear in this interview—but he needed to establish his own voice and identity. Now an author and long-time pastor himself, he's glad to say, "Eugene Peterson, that's my dad."

If we cannot trust God to keep bad things from happening to us or to those we love, how do we trust God at all? Author and Anglican priest Tish Harrison Warren wrestles with this question in her new book and in this conversation with Nathan Foster.

Richard Foster helps introduce a new podcast from Renovaré called Friends in Formation, featuring Nathan Foster, James Catford, and Richella Parham.

Eric Eugene Peterson has devoted much of his pastoral life to studying, teaching, and trying to live into what many think of as a one-time act: baptism. Eric helps us dive deeper into the waters of this well-known sacrament.

Lacy Borgo talks with Nathan about prayer, play, Psalms of lament, and "holding center" in a pandemic while being married to an ER doctor.

"Jesus' way of being lifted up is not the way of the world," says author Marlena Graves. "Nouwen called it downward mobility...You might not win accolades but you will bring great joy to God and you will do much good in the world." She talks with Nathan about her new book The Way Up Is Down.

Roger Fredrikson, part of Renovaré's Ministry Team, would have celebrated his 100th birthday in November 2020. In this message from the 1999 Renovaré International Conference, his topic is from The Divine Conspiracy, on moving beyond sin management. Dallas Willard and Richard Foster join for Q&A.

Put on some headphones, find a comfortable spot, and set your heart and mind on Psalm 19 in this 15-minute guided meditation. This "audio retreat" is a collaboration with Joshua Banner from The Invitation Podcast.

Author and spiritual director Fil Anderson takes us deep into the heart, or as he puts it, the womb of mercy. “I’ve come to believe mercy is the most defining characteristic of God.”

"Every tongue tribe and nation will be together in heaven," says author and counselor Sheila Wise Rowe, "we have an opportunity to figure out how to do that now." She talks with Nathan Foster about racial trauma, and how healing comes through community.

What kinds of healthy risks should we take? How do we discern God's voice? What if I'm in too much pain to pray? Carolyn Arends asks these and other listener questions to Pete Greig (founder of the 24-7 Prayer movement) and Lisa Koons (24-7 Prayer USA Director) in this webinar recap bonus episode.

"You cannot think a spiritual muddle clear, you have to obey it clear." Oswald Chamber's words helped singer-songwriter and Director of Communications Brian Morykon overcome resistance and start a new album. He chats with Nathan about fear versus humility, joy in obedience, and shares two new songs.

When the life of Pastor Juanita Rasmus came to a screeching halt after what her counselor called "a major depressive episode," she found that she had to learn to be—with herself and with God—all over again. She talks with Nathan about that season which is captured in her new book, Learning to Be.

Diane Bolduc believes the local church could benefit from the rigorous honesty found in recovery programs like AA. Having experienced transformation through 12-step recovery, she and her husband now lead a ministry to help others find freedom from addiction.

Cindy Bunch, director of editorial at InterVarsity Press, believes that cultivating compassion toward self is a way to cultivate compassion toward others. This is at the heart of her new book_Be Kind to Yourself, which she talks with Nathan Foster about in this episode.

Myisha Cunningham is the Senior Pastor of Raven-Brook Recovery Church. From the context of being a black woman in a denomination with mostly white male leadership, she brings welcome perspective on race, white privilege, and how individuals and churches can obey the two greatest commandments.

Beth and David Booram, spiritual directors and cofounders of an urban retreat center in Indianapolis, invite us to look for God in places we normally overlook, and listen for God in places we might try to ignore (like negative feelings).

The joy of surrendering to Jesus is evident in Jill Weber's voice. Her "yes" to God took her on an unexpected journey—including helping found the Greater Ontario House of Prayer, and now her work as Global Convener of the Order of the Mustard Seed, a lay ecumenical religious order.

Author and professor David Taylor—known for producing a short film with Eugene Peterson and Bono—talks with Nathan Foster about rediscovering the Psalms, a book that can "help us name reality so that we can live in it."

We’re all going through this together. That's unique for a crisis. This also means everyone at various levels is grieving. Fil Anderson chats with Nathan Foster about how to recognize—rather than minimize—what we've lost and bring it to Jesus so that we can heal.

In this classic talk from the Renovaré 1999 international conference, Dallas Willard explains how, no matter what hurt may come, the world is a perfectly safe place for us to be when we entrust ourselves to God's care.

An accomplished business leader in the defense and aerospace sector, Lane Cohee came to learn he couldn't control away life's trouble. But he could release that imagined control to Jesus and find peace for his disquieted soul, as he shares in this honest conversation with Nathan Foster.

Pastor, worship leader, and gospel recording artist Donn Thomas shares about his personal battle with cancer, how worship is a weapon for overcoming fear, and how his church is thriving in a stay-at-home context.

Special thanks to Chad Lawson and Dwell App for the music.

Responding to listener questions, retired pastor Dr. Miriam (Mimi) Dixon and Renovaré President Chris Hall offer practical ways to think and act in redeeming ways in the unexpected learning space of an international crisis.

An audio meditation led by Nathan Foster to help us set our minds on what is good, beautiful, and true in the midst of uncertainty.

When it comes to the Charismatic Stream, Renovaré president Chris Hall coaches, "Avoid cookie cutter paradigms." He shares with Nathan Foster personal stories of experiencing the Holy Spirit in unexpected ways.

In 1991, members of a small church gathered for eight weeks to hear Dallas Willard teach on Psalm 23. Nearly three decades later the pastor of that church, Larry Burtoft, along with Dallas's daughter Rebecca Willard Heatley compiled those talks into a book. They join Nathan Foster to talk about it.

Renovaré Ministry Team member and author Dr. Lacy Borgo has years of experience working with (and raising!) children, learning from them how to enter the Kingdom of God. She joins Nathan Foster on the podcast about her new book Spiritual Conversations with Children: Listening to God Together.

Nathan talks with Richard Foster about the history and future of Renovaré events–including the story of the name behind the new event, The Foxtail. Learn more at renovare.org/foxtail

"I was drawn to Interior Castle as a field guide," says Renovaré Team Member and retired pastor Miriam (Mimi) Dixon, "for how I could cooperate with the Holy Spirit more directly in the transformation of my heart." In this in-depth interview with Nathan Foster, Mimi helps us understand Teresa of Ávila's classic work.​

Some think of the Contemplative Tradition as "me, Jesus, and a candle". Candlelit time with Jesus is beautiful, but how does that relate to community? Do contemplative practices like silent prayer work with others? Renovaré Director of Education Carolyn Arends discusses with Nathan Foster.

"We invite the one who loves us into our awareness... and the Spirit at the same time is inviting us to be aware and be awake." Writer and spiritual director Jean Nevills talks with Nathan Foster how to be present to God in all of life.Read Jean's original essay related to this podcast​, Light Enough to Live By.