Life with God: A Renovaré Podcast

This meditation by Nathan Foster on Luke 22 invites us to the Mount of Olives where Jesus prayed “let this cup pass from me.”

Trevor Hudson shares reflections on the influence that Desmond Tutu had on his life — as a friend, colleague, cellmate, and “contemplative in action.”Show NotesDesmond Tutu's Nobel Prize biography pageMade for Goodness by Desmond TutuBooks by Trevor HudsonOther Episodes With This GuestEp 47: Trevor Hudson — Friendship with GodEp 73: Trevor Hudson — Holiness is Better Than You ThinkEp 131: Trevor Hudson — Listen to the GroansEp 154: Trevor Hudson — Meeting Christ in Our TearsEp 153: Trevor Hudson — The Litmus Test for LentEp 215: Trevor Hudson and Jan Johnson — What Is Spiritual Direction?Ep 239: Trevor Hudson — Seeking God

“We enriched each other.” Luci Shaw speaks with Nate about her rich friendship with Madeleine L'Engle and how they made one another better writers and better followers of Jesus.Show Notes + TranscriptNate: Lucy, we get to talk about your friend today. How did you first come to meet Madeline?Luci: Well, Madeleine and I met originally at Wheaton College at a conference on, on literature, and she was a speaker and I was a speaker, and so we just happened to connect at that, at that time, and we discovered we had a lot in common.Madeline had just written a couple of poems that she wanted published. So, since my husband and I had just started the publishing company, Harold Shaw Publishers, I asked Madeline if she would like us to publish her poetry. Which is one of the things we had planned to do, was publish poetry people of faith. So, we did. We published two of her books. One was called A Cry Like a Bell. And the other one was Oh, I can't even remember the name of it. But this was very early on. And we discovered the more we talked, the more we found we had in common. We loved Bach. We loved the music of Bach. We had a number of common friends. That was way back when. Nate: Now, was this before she'd written Wrinkle in Time?Luci: She had written A Wrinkle in Time.Nate: And then you two went on to write some books together.Luci: That's right, yeah, we had our publishing company, and we were trying to publish, books by people of faith who had a literary bent. Anyway, that was the beginning of a really fruitful friendship. We found that, though Madeline had a number of people who were devoted to her and looked up to her, she didn't have many colleagues who were sort of meeting her at the friendship level, not just the sort of worshipful level that she had managed to accumulate.So, the first book that we did together, I asked her to write a book on faith, how faith and literature work together. So she, at one point, handed me this very untidy typescript. Piles and piles of typed notes and possible chapter headings and so on.So I had to just take the whole thing, pull it apart, I emptied my dining room, got the table out of the way, and started making piles. of different ideas that would flow together. We called it the Weather of the Heart. She needed someone who could sort of say, Madeline, you can't say that. You know, that's... not orthodox. We'll have to talk through that one. So, we did. We did a lot of discussion. She came from a very liberal background in New York City. I came from a very conservative background. And we sort of met in the middle and discovered that we loved each other's works. And we learned a lot from each other and through each other.Nate: What did you learn from her? Luci: I learned to be a lot more open about what faith in God was all about. That you didn't have formulas by which to describe your faith. That this was a freeing thing, that the Holy Spirit of God could work in different ways. We just enjoyed each other's experiences with the Spirit of God. We shared so much. We found that working together was truly an act of worship to God. I remember after working through an entire manuscript, The Weather of the Heart, we finished all the copy editing and so on, we spontaneously stood to our feet and sang the doxology, "Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow." Nate: What do you want people to remember about her?Luci: I want them to remember that she loved God with all her heart. That she wanted to be God's child and servant. And I think that what I could bring to her was a sense that God was larger than either her understanding or my understanding of God. That God was so magnificent and so wide, in the ways we could reach to God through the Holy Spirit.So it was a very Trinitarian friendship. She loved Jesus, and you know, the fact that God was both Jesus and also the Divine Creator of the world. Nate: How did you see her work influence people spiritually?Luci: I think she asked a lot of questions that people had. People you know, had a lot of questions because God is knowable through various ways, but not always easily understood. And because Madeline had a very great respect for the Bible and for Holy Scripture, and she realized that, throughout Scripture, God speaks to us through metaphors.God spoke to Moses with the Ten Commandments, but also through acts of grace and love. It was, an ongoing, free flowing relationship that God wants to have with us as his children, as his followers, and both Madeline and I wanted to have that characterize our life and our writing.Nate: Mm-Hmm. . Do you miss her?Luci: I miss her a lot. I think I was the only true friend she had at the level where we could be honest, really honest with each other. We rescued each other several times. Once she was in California speaking at a conference and she became very ill and was hospitalized. And I was living in the state of Washington. And she phoned me and she said, can you come down and be with me? So I went d

Amisho “Sho” Baraka joins Nate for a fascinating conversation about George Washington Carver — a man whose faith directed his genius toward the good of others.ResourcesThe Man Who Talks with the Flowers: The Intimate Life Story of Dr. George Washington Carver, by Glenn Clark Essential Writings of the American Black Church, by John HuntTuskegee UniversityHe Saw That It Was Good, by Sho BarakaAlbum: ​“The Narrative,” Sho Baraka, 2016“Bravery to Faithfully Create,” article by Sho Baraka on renovare.orgOther episodes with this guestEpisode 234 : Sho Baraka — He Saw That It Was Good

Pastor and author Andrew Arndt talks with Nathan Foster about how the stories and examples of the desert fathers and mothers move from exhaustion, burnout, and pain into a more vibrant faith.

Mimi Dixon shares how the life and words of Catherine Doherty—a pioneer for interracial justice and mentor to Thomas Merton—helped her to return to her first love. ResourcesPoustinia, by Catherine DohertyCatherine Doherty writes about prayer and sacraments as ways to welcome and know the presence of God in “First Meet God” Luminous Lives, a Renovaré e-course hosted my Mimi Dixon

Matthew Clark joined Nate in-person to tape this week's podcast conversation on the topic of truth — truthful storytelling, truthful music, true relationships and true worship. Visit Matthew Clark's website.Books by Matthew ClarkTale of Two Trees Only The Lover Sings Find Matthew's music on Spotify and AppleMatthew's Podcast — One Thousand Words: Stories Along the Way

Printmaker Sally Kendrick talks with Nate about the creative act of finding and printing specimens from nature as a way of cultivating "openness to the presence of God and willingness to receive the love of God." Sally Kendrick is a Maryland-based photographer with Carolina roots. She began experimenting with cyanotypes as a way of cultivating a habit of attentiveness to the beauty in the natural world around her. Read Sally's essay "Attention Grows into Love" on renovare.org.True Impressions: Daily Prayers (artwork by Sally Kendrick) available for purchase or for free download.Sally has graciously offered some of her cyanotypes as downloads that can be printed locally.You can connect with Sally on Instagram at @turkeycreekprints.

Sarah Clarkson spoke with Nathan Foster from her home in the UK about her experiences with grief and fear and the way God has been restoring faith, hope, and love in her life through the gift of beauty.Sarah's Website: https://sarahclarkson.comBooks by Sarah:This Beautiful Truth: How God's Goodness Breaks into Our DarknessBook Girl: A Journey Through the Treasures and Transforming Power of a Reading LifeCaught Up in a Story: Fostering a Storyformed Life of Great Books & Imagination with Your ChildrenThe Life Giving Home: Creating a Place of Belonging and Becoming

Mark Buchanan, author of God Walk: Moving at the Speed of your Soul, talks with Nate about the restorative gifts of God available to us in natural world.Books by Mark Buchanan God Walk: Moving at the Speed of your SoulDavid: RiseDavid: ReignThe Rest of God: Restoring Your Soul by Restoring SabbathYour God is Too Safe: Rediscovering the Wonder of a God You Can't Control Visit Mark’s website Renovaré resources with Mark BuchananWebinar: Good GriefArticle: “Being More Pedestrian”

The Renovaré Podcast with Nathan Foster returns with new episodes and a new name... Life with God. The next several episodes center the conversation around things that restore our souls—places of connection to God and gifts from the Lord that bring us inward healing. Katelyn Dixon leads off the series by looking at the creative act of writing as spiritual healing.Read Katelyn's writing on Renovare.orgVisit Katelyn's website

A 20-minute meditation—an audio retreat—on Psalm 131. Put on some headphones, find a comfortable spot, and let your soul be quieted. This episode is a collaboration with Joshua Banner from The Invitation Podcast (invitationpodcast.org).

Prayer doesn't have to be perfect, just real. Brian Morykon and Nathan Foster talk about music and writing as forms that help us craft authentic prayers in this 2015 episode of the Renovaré Podcast.Brian's song that is referenced in the podcast conversation and played at the end of the episode is What Can I Do (lyrics below), from The Smallest Seed, released December 18, 2012. (c) All rights reserved.Please give me grace to be weakThe moment I'm strong I get up and leaveWhere am I going in such a rush anywayMy heart tap of love is running dryTried to fix it myself and clogged my mindI'm knee deep and need Your touch to put things rightWhat can I do apart from You?I made a god of self-controlWorshipped my will like it saved my soulMade sacrifices but nothing satisfied itWhere is that 12 step meeting placefor addicts high on their own waysI'm ready to surrenderI can build my house on the sandA fragile façade where I can pretenduntil one strong blow of your windI am left standing without any wallsAnd the Wind that just broke me breathes in my soulthe Breath of Life... oh…Find more of Brian's music at morykon.com.

"Each day is God's gift… But we have a choice." Jan Johnson talks with Nate about how to rejoice and be glad with the help of spiritual disciplines. Find more Jan Johnson resources at janjohnson.org

Mimi Dixon invites us to let Julian of Norwich teach us that “all shall be well" in this encore episode that first aired in 2017.

Nathan Foster takes a famous quote from Julian of Norwich and festoons each phrase with his own thoughts. Come linger over Julian’s words in this audio retreat, with music by Joshua Banner.

With gratitude for the life of Donn Thomas, we share this episode from the Renovaré Podcast archive (originally aired April 13, 2020). Donn speaks with Nate about his cancer diagnosis and other scary situations, and how God's presence helps us move from fear to confidence.

Monica and Jeremy Chambers join Nate to discuss ways of engaging with two transforming prayers for the Christian life: Psalm 23 and the Lord’s Prayer.

Katie Davis Majors shares her story of formation through suffering and explains the message of her book, Safe All Along.

Tina Dyer (Renovaré Board Treasurer) and Grace Pouch (Renovaré’s Content Manager) talk with Nathan Foster about the brilliance of Sojourner Truth and how her story has impacted their lives. Tina and Grace will lead the Renovaré book club through The Narrative of Sojourner Truth beginning on March 27.Show Notes[1:51] I am curious to know how you two discovered Sojourner Truth.[4:26] How has her story impacted you two?[10:08] What makes her credible?[13:02] I think I know you two well enough to know that you're both open to having potentially difficult conversations about your experiences and about race. So what was that like for the two of you to explore Sojourner's life together?[19:06] How would you like people to approach Sojourner's story?[22:11] Could you share one [question from Sojourner that you’re sitting with]?[23:10] What is your hope for people to take away from Sojourner's work? Resources:The Narrative of Sojourner Truth by Sojourner Truth, written by Olive GilbertBeautiful Vessels by Bakht Singh, Sojourner Truth, Richard J. Foster, Tina Dyer, Grace Pouch

Renovaré Ministry Team member and pastor, Kai Nilsen, talks with Nate about what we can learn from recent disruptions to church norms.

In this week’s episode of the Renovaré Podcast, Nathan talks with Miriam Rockness and Mimi Dixon about the life and faith of Lilias Trotter. Show Notes[ ] What has drawn you and fed you about her life? How did you discover her?[ ] Is it accurate to say we might have lost some of these pieces of her work had it not been for your journey?[ ] What I’m hearing, Miriam, is that you said Yes, and it reminds me a little of Lilias. She said Yes. Mimi, do you have any sense as to where she had the courage to say Yes? What did you hear in her words?ResourcesA Passion for the Impossible, Miriam Huffman RocknessParables of the Cross, by Lilias TrotterCreative Prayer, by Emily HermanThe Way of the Sevenfold Secret, Lilias TrotterMany Beautiful Things (movie about the life of Lilias Trotter)Miriam Rockness website

Show notesWhat is visio divina, Viv?And how do you do that?What you're saying is that it's something we do all the time.—it's just taking a little extra pause or intentionality with what we're seeing?Can I do visio with nature… look out my window?What is your practice? Do you find a painting and say, “I'm gonna spend a half hour with this?”So it would be a little like sitting down to read a book. I'm gonna sit down and read visually, like a painting or a scene. Is that how you would do it?What is your practice for selecting a piece to use and how do you get a certain space in your house or what?You mentioned you don't watch television. Does that tie in?How does this fit into the practice of retreat, or does it?How does that practice [of choosing art for a space] tie into retreat … for example, you've built a retreat house?What do you look for when you go on retreat?What kind of experiences are you hoping to craft with the retreats at the house?...Find out more about Vivianne's retreat house, Vilayala.

Nathan Foster talks with Winn Collier about the penetrating and practical spiritual wisdom of 17th-century archbishop and writer François Fénelon.Show Notes [3:42] Could you share a little about Fénelon? [10:35] There’s almost a level of pain that one needs to feel in order to find the comfort... I wonder if it's a season of life, if you’re in a space where you’re really needing a kind of brokenness.[11:57] I would go beyond identifying [pain]... It’s giving a map.[13:26] Do you know his influences, what shaped him in his life?[15:18] What were you hoping to do with the book?[16:45] What did you learn from the project?[19:56] Do you get any indication that he was a person of joy?[21:28] You can dip in anywhere in his letters ... I will usually read one at a time and just sit with it, reading it multiple times before moving to another one. Am I doing it right?[23:07] Thoughtful, honest pastor—this reminds me of another friend of ours beyond the grave. How would you connect him with Eugene Peterson? Would you?[24:17] How are things with the Eugene Peterson Center?ResourcesLet God: Spiritual Conversations with François Fénelon, by Winn CollierLet Go, by François FénelonA Burning in My Bones, by Winn CollierEugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination

Brenda Quinn and Richard Foster join Nathan to talk about Richard’s new book, Learning Humility: A Year of Searching for a Vanishing Virtue.Show Notes[4:38] Dad, could you give us an overview?[9:38] Brenda, what was your journey like as you were reading the chapters and how did this work for you as a Christ follower and a pastor?[17:08] Dad, the humble mumble – could you explain that? How did spending this year and writing the book tie into that?[18:44] Brenda, as a pastor, I’m sure you get lots of compliments. How do you handle those when people have nice things to say about you?[21:21] A lot of people don’t know how to say I’m sorry or own up to things. And that potentially stems from (a lack of) humility, doesn’t it, that my ego is fragile enough that I can’t handle critique?[22:45] Humility is really about freedom, would you agree?[25:21] You were in an environment (in the university) where people not only ask you, but they expect you to have the answers. And it can be the same in ministry. Brenda, in your context, where is the freedom you experience as you learn humility?[27:55] Dad, what surprised you in writing this book and spending the year on it?[29:45] What would you say to someone listening to this, or they’ve read the book, and they say “I’m in, I want to grow in humility”? What should they do? Where’s a good place to start?[32:59] But we can certainly get better, right? There’s improvement to be made.[33:43] For people who read the book, what would your hope be?[36:01] The thing I found really helpful about the book, that snuck up on me, was the allure. Why wouldn’t I want that? Seeing it as an invitation to freedom, to become our true selves, the self that God created us to be.ResourcesLearning Humility: A Year of Searching for a Vanishing Virtue, by Richard FosterHumility, a Renovaré resource with selections from Learning Humility and Humility (by Andrew Murray)

Robyn Wrigley-Carr returns to the Renovaré Podcast to talk with Nate about Evelyn Underhill—the 20th century author, spiritual director and retreat leader—and about Baron Friedrich Von Hügel, whose spiritual direction transformed Evelyn’s life with God.Show Notes[2:15] Here’s a quote from Eugene Peterson: “The most extensive and inviting introduction … a brilliantly written book.” How did it feel to have read that about your book?[3:49] Could you tell me what is a baron and who is said Baron that was so impactful on Evelyn’s life, and on Eugene’s too?[6:56] What were [Von Hügel’s] health issues?[8:59] Why did [Von Hügel] only want to see [Evelyn Underhill] twice a year?[ ] What would you say were some of the key components in [Evelyn Underhill’s] own formation?[ ] Who were some of these folks that were influencing [Evelyn]?[ ] I find it helpful to hear [Baron Von Hügel] doing spiritual direction in a very different way than we think of it... What would you say were some of Evelyn Underhill’s contributions to the discipline of spiritual direction?[ ] What about [Evelyn’s] life inspires you?ResourcesThe Spiritual Formation of Evelyn Underhill, by Robyn Wrigley-CarrEvelyn Underhill’s Prayer Book, by Robyn Wrigley-Carr

Professor, pastor, and author Robert Moore-Jumonville talks with Nathan Foster about Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton.Show Notes[0:57] What do you like about Chesterton?[5:09 ] How would you describe Orthodoxy to someone?[7:32] I’m struggling with the term “dense,” because it’s not boring...[12:41] For some reason I hear Kurt Vonnegut in Chesterton – the satire, the unexpected. Chesterton surprises me.[16:40] It seems like a cultural commentary that has a lot of relevance for today.[18:45] What are one or two significant impacts Chesterton has had on your life?[23:46] How do you think Chesterton would like to be remembered?[24:51] Can you tell us a little about your book?ResourcesOrthodoxy, G.K. ChestertonChesterton and Tolkien as Theologians, Alison MilbankThe Kingdom of God in America, Richard NiebuhrJogging with G.K. Chesterton: 65 Earthshaking Expeditions, by Robert Moore-Jumonville

Most years Lacy Borgo re-reads A Testament of Devotion by Thomas Kelly. She joins Nathan Foster to discuss how this spiritual classic has impacted her life.Show Notes[3:02] You mentioned to me some time ago that you read this book every year. What’s that about?[5:06] How would you describe A Testament of Devotion?[6:23] What are the pieces this year that are ringing to you?[8:37] As a spiritual director, how do you see people lean into that glow (of the Presence of God in each person)?[11:23] Thomas Kelly talks a lot about “the light within,” very Quaker. Can you talk a little about what he means by that?[12:25] How has this book influenced your life?[14:47] What is a spiritual autobiography?[18:48] There is this kind of tender, mystical side to him, poetic almost. What do you think?[20:43] Your care and concern for little people…how has Thomas spoken into that?[23:10] You have a children's book coming out. Can I ask you about it?ResourcesA Testament of Devotion, by Thomas KellyAll Will Be Well: Learning to Trust God’s Love, by Lacy BorgoRevelations of Divine Love, Julian of Norwich, introduced and translated by Fr. John-Julian, OJN

Nathan welcomes Mark Buchanan to the podcast to discuss the wonderfully “reliable” spiritual practice of walking, which is the topic of Mark’s newest book, God Walk: Moving at the Speed of Your Soul.Show Notes[1:17] I’m curious, how long have you been a speed walker?[2:09] What has your experience and practice been with walking?[3:58] What did you learn from writing the book?[5:48] What happens for you when you walk?[7:58] A friend of mine gave me a quote: Those who work with their mind rest with their hands; those who work with their hands rest with their mind. I think of walking a little like I do silence—that it’s reliable.[9:34] When you use the phrase “God speed,” what do you mean by that?[16:08] What was your favorite chapter?[22:06] What do you hope for people reading your book?[23:03] You start the book referencing a friend of yours who is not able to walk. Could you give a word for people who are not able-bodied…?[25:12] Are there other things you have learned from your indigenous friends?[27:47] Any pilgrimages you have done or would like to do?ResourcesGod Walk, Moving at the Speed of Your Soul, by Mark BuchananThe Rest of God: Restoring Your Soul by Restoring Sabbath, by Mark BuchananThree Mile an Hour God, by Koyama KosukeThe Reason You Walk, by Wab Kinew

Trevor Hudson talks with Nate about his new book, Seeking God: Finding Another Kind of Life with St. Ignatius and Dallas Willard, and unpacks what it means to be a “seeker” in a Christ-following way.Show Notes[1:43] I’m curious to know how you discovered St. Ignatius and how he’s impacted your life.[3:30] What was that experience like for you, personally, to go through the Exercises?[4:59] For those listening who don’t know, could you just give us a brief description of the Exercises?[8:09] You’ve been able to lead people through the Exercises through these years. What have you noticed?[9:51] How did you discover Dallas [Willard], and how has he impacted your life? What did that friendship bring to you and your family?[12:46] How did the idea come to write a book involving these two friends?[15:59] Tell us a little about the book.[16:57] The term seeker, at least in the States, is usually referenced in Christian contexts as a non-Christian that the church is wooing in. You’re working with this word far beyond that. What does it mean to you?[20:00] When Debbie referenced you as a seeker, is there a tension in that? Does she mean it all in a positive sense?[21:58] Was Dallas right in saying you wouldn’t be content?[23:18] What does that look like to embrace the present moment?[25:05] What did you learn from writing this book?[27:00] What are you reading these days?ResourcesSeeking God: Finding Another Kind of Life with St. Ignatius and Dallas Willard, by Trevor HudsonThe Divine Conspiracy, by Dallas WillardThe Master and his Emissary, Ian McGilchrist

Renovaré President Ted Harro discusses his recent pilgrimage with his son along the Camino de Santiago, including how its unexpected detours taught him the beauty of humility.Show Notes[1:00] You recently went on a pilgrimage. Can you discuss pilgrimage as a spiritual practice?[4:55] I love this question, where are you going and why? That sounds like a Jesus-type question. So is the point the destination, is this a kind of magical place that I go and I get a gold star from God for walking 300 miles? [6:23] So tell us – everything went wrong? Tell us about your experience. What was the plan?[10:08] When I heard that it didn't go as planned, there was a part of me that was really sad because I know you had been preparing for this and it was really important. But I also had a little smile on my face because I thought, “Oh, Ted’s going to learn something, that you can only learn from having these disappointments, challenges.” Are there things you have been able to unpack from the experience that you’d be willing to share?[17:32] What did you do with the grief of watching Duncan go on?[19:50] Talking about humility, what were some of the new pieces that opened up for you?[23:40] How have you made it 55 years without bumping into your limitations? There is a gift and a blessing in bumping into those. In reading my dad’s new book on humility that’s coming out later this year, he reaches the conclusion that it’s the foundational virtue for spiritual formation.[25:20] How has it been wearing for you as you’ve been home for a while now?[27:43] As we’re talking, I’m reflecting on the six months – you have really come in with a high level of humility, as a learner trying to partner with God, and that’s been neat to watch. Are there pieces in these months that you’ve learned, or things that might be helpful for people to know about Renovaré and your role?ResourcesLearning Humility: A Year of Searching for a Vanishing Virtue, by Richard Foster (coming out December 2022)

Show Notes[1:24] You have a new book out. Why did you write this book?[4:18] Can you share a little about your journey?[7:51] What made a difference for you? How have you worked your narratives and what is that process like? [9:41] Many Christians know…the reality of some of the things you're saying. How do you move that from your head to your heart?[11:52] When I see others as beloved image bearers, it makes it quite difficult to control or dehumanize them. There’s a freedom, isn’t there?[13:52] In the book, after each chapter you have different practices—exercises—for people. Can you talk a little about those? [16:22] How do you invite God into that [practice of holy leisure—being rather than doing]?[17:18] Are there other practices that have been helpful for you in your journey?[19:08] How does that [practice of Sabbath] help with your narratives?[20:17] What do you hope for people reading the book?[21:10] I know there are a lot of folks who struggle with moving into their belovedness, because it can feel like self-help…What do you say to those folks?[24:47] I’m curious, are there more Good and Beautiful… things you have in store for us?ResourcesGood and Beautiful You, by James Brian SmithThe Good and Beautiful book seriesThe Apprentice Institute websiteThe Apprentice Gathering event (September 22-24, 2024)

Terry Wardle of Healing Care Ministries shares how an emotional breakdown at the height of his “success” in ministry played a pivotal role in moving him from information about God to encounter with God, from performance-oriented to grace-oriented, and from broken to beloved.Show Notes[1:00] I'm really curious to hear a little about your story.[5:32] When there's a pressure in our life, there's a potential gift because we break… Do you find yourself grateful for that?[8:33] To be willing to look at oneself with God—would you agree that there's a strength that requires from people?[10:38] What would you like to see the Church do or become in terms of spaces that can handle brokenness or have a word in suffering?[15:00] We can't take people there [on a healing journey] if we haven't been there ourselves. Would you agree?[16:14] Do you “walk with a limp?”[18:57] Have you found…that what often emerges in the healing is something beyond what you or others can imagine, that it's different and wonderful in ways we can't see?[22:14] You mentioned community earlier. What is the role of community in this?[24:50] When you were in the hospital…What would have been helpful from your friends there? What could they have done during that time?[27:48] Could you share a little about the work you're doing with Healing Care Ministries?[30:07] I'm curious, if you're willing to share, what was your encounter that you had with Jesus those many years ago?ResourcesHealing Care Ministries websiteFrom Broken to Beloved, by Terry WardleSome Kind of Crazy: An Unforgettable Story of Profound Brokenness and Breathtaking Grace, by Terry WardleThe Flame of Love, by Clark Pinnock

Authors and founders of Unhurried Living, Gem and Alan Fadling, share insights into how we experience soul change, share key questions that open the door to spiritual transformation, and explore the difference between self-help and spiritual formation.

Hip hop artist and author, Sho Baraka, joins Nate to talk about refreshing our theology of work, strengthening the relationship between creatives and the Church, and adding variety to the genres and voices we turn to for spiritual nurture.[2:08] Could you tell us a little about your book (its creation)?[6:47] Could you say a little about help for creatives and what you hope to see?[8:33] One of the things I noticed throughout your book is a concern with the devaluing of the oral tradition and folk stories in Christianity. Could you say a little about that?[11:20] I’m wondering if there’s a connection [between devaluing oral stories] and losing some of the creativity in Christian life, church life.[14:55] Your work in hip hop, is that carrying on the oral tradition? [21:03] Have you been to the African American Smithsonian?[21:54] There is such a robust history and wisdom in the historical Black church that I feel is often lost on White America. Are there pieces of that tradition that you wish people knew or that you think would be helpful?[25:11] Could you unpack the term “evangelical edit?”[26:25] In your book you talk about a conversation you had with your daughter when she was seven, where she came and talked to you about her skin color and hair. Can you tell that story?[29:51] What do you hope people will take from your book?ResourcesHe Saw That It Was Good, by Sho BarakaAlbum: “The Narrative,” Sho Baraka, 2016

Author and Spiritual Director Sharon Garlough Brown speaks about using the medium of fiction to connect readers to the God who grieves and suffers with us and enlarges our capacity to receive joy.Show Notes[2:23] Could you tell us just a little about your love of Van Gogh?[5:12] Could you talk about how you work with fiction?[7:13] You go into spiritual direction not really knowing where this time is going to go, but being open. Do you take some of that same posture into your writing?[10:46] You've gone there in terms of writing about pain and suffering and some difficult topics. What has that been like for you?[13:20] What do you hope for the reader?[14:23] Do you see yourself as a fiction writer?[15:48] How does your work as a pastor and spiritual director inform your stories?[18:18] Could you talk a little about spiritual friendship?[22:46] What will that look like for you in Scotland … with these losses?[28:33] Could you tell us a little about Abiding Way?ResourcesFeathers of Hope, by Sharon Garlough BrownAbiding Way MinistriesSharon’s website

A classic talk by Renovaré Ministry Team member and retired pastor Glandion Carney on the collection of practices that create room in his life for dwelling with God and receiving grace.

Author Robyn Wrigley-Carr joins Nathan on this week’s episode to discuss Evelyn Underhill’s Prayer Book.Show NotesWho was Evelyn Underhill?Tell me a little bit about her prayer book prior to your visit to the retreat house.I’m hearing joy. Was it a joyful process for you?She does something bold, taking a prayer from some great Saint and adding her own lines, making her own contribution to it. I found that really special to get to have both people’s prayers together.Could you speculate what Evelyn might want people to do with this book?One of the things I found exciting is that, a number of the people’s prayers that she quotes I knew the names, but there were a bunch of them I don’t. And you give a little description of them at the end, and I thought, “New friends to explore!”Do you keep a prayer book?I’ve been collecting prayers for years, my own and others. And I love the idea of curating your own collection, that they all mean something to you. ResourcesEvelyn Underhill’s Prayer Book, by Robin Wrigley CarrThe Spiritual Formation of Evelyn Underhill, by Robin Wrigley-CarrMusic of Eternity: Meditations for Advent with Evelyn Underhill, by Robyn Wrigley-CarrThe Letters of Evelyn Underhill, edited by Charles WilliamsLetters from Baron Friedrich von Hügel to a Niece, by Friedrich von HügelPleshy Retreat House

Steve Macchia, author and founder of Leadership Transformations, shares insights on cultivating discernment as a listening lifestyle—rather than merely a decision-making strategy—and how to humbly place God’s agenda ahead of our own.Show Notes[:] You take a different spin of sorts on the topic of discernment. Could you share with us a little about some of your thinking on that? [:] What does a discerning life look like going beyond big decision-making? [:] What did that look like for you today to lean into discerning life? [:] You have a phrase in the book that I just love and it's “practicing a preference for God.” Can you talk a little about that?[:] There's a sort of certain humility that is required to even look or ask. If I got it all figured out, I'm not necessarily going to look for God's opinion on something, right?[:] The prayer I'll often do is, “Hey, if you've got an opinion here, I’m open.” It just feels good in a way, to go this isn't all about me, right? [:] There are other times where there’s an ease to it. Do you relate to that? [:] How do people know they’re on the right track?[:] What does this look like for a leader? How does discernment work itself out in the day to day? [:] Leaders want to bring something, want to help, feel an internal or external responsibility to do such, but for you to bring listening, discerning—what you're doing is a ministry to your team, right?[:] Share with me a couple of things going on with Leadership Transformations that folks could be involved with.[:] One of your major contributions is the rule of life book. And then the discernment book. Do those intersect?ResourcesThe Discerning Life, by Steve MacchiaCrafting a Rule of Life, by Steve MacciaSteve’s ministry Leadership Transformations

Author Jan Johnson joins Nathan on this week’s episode to discuss Dallas Willard’s book Renovation of the Heart (an upcoming selection for the Renovaré book club), and how to live it out in daily practice.

In this guided audio meditation, Nathan Foster offers a prayer from the heart for Ukraine and the world.

Nathan speaks with one of his favorite authors, Marilyn McEntyre, about why “words matter more than we can imagine.” She explores words as sacraments, as creative forces, as conveyors of truth, and as precious ingredients in the feast called conversation.Show Notes[2:21] Where did your love of words begin?[4:52] Could you explain a little about how caring for words is a moral issue?[6:34] How about words as art?[9:15] You take this beyond writing and poetry—into normal conversation?[14:41] How do you use words as a spiritual practice?[18:53] What would you say to folks who are just beginning to think in terms of using words with some intentionality?[21:54] Do you speak other languages? What does that change for you reading in languages besides English? Does it open up a different world for you?[25:40] I was really moved by your section on felicity. When a word goes out of use in a culture, is it representative that that thing has gone out of use?[27:55] Do you like Noam Chomsky and his work?[33:09] What's your “one sentence” about the book?[34:47] What gives you hope in our culture today, connected to words?[39:02] What I was hearing was words as a way to love others, to love what's good and right, to care enough about the words we use. ResourcesMarilyn’s website: marilynmcentyre.comBooks by Marilyn McEntyre (a sampling)Caring for Words in a Culture of LiesSpeaking Peace in a Climate of ConflictWhen Poets PrayMake a List: How a Simple Practice Can Change Our Lives and Open Our HeartsWord by Word, A Daily Spiritual PracticeRichard Foster describes Lectio Divina“Politics and the English Language,” essay by George OrwellNo Passion Spent by George Steiner

How do pastors prevent burn out and keep first things first? Renovaré Ministry Team member Mimi Dixon shares insights and lessons from her decades of experience as a senior pastor.Show Notes[1:11] There's an article in Christianity today about pastors that you had mentioned to me. Could you share a little about that?[6:35] What are some things that you think might be helpful for pastors in this season? [17:40] And this happened after you let go of the franchise mentality?[21:32] How does the phrase “first things” play in all this for you?[25:55] Is that way of doing ministry realistic in this day and age?[27:58] I’m thinking of when you asked Dallas if he sinned. Could you share with folks the answer?[36:16] Would you be up for giving a prayer for folks that are in ministry? ResourcesRenovaré Retreat for Pastors“First and Second Things,” God in the Dock pp. 278-280, by C.S. Lewis

Ted Harro joins Nathan Foster to talk about his unexpected journey to become Renovaré’s new president.Show Notes [2:53] I caught wind that you were really pushing to get this position. Is that accurate? [5:51] What changed, to get you in a position where you actually did apply and follow through?[8:23] How are you feeling about coming into the position?[8:54] What first drew you to Renovaré as an organization?[11:25] What was your experience like with the Renovaré Institute?[13:06] How do you see your background as a consultant helping your work at Renovaré?[15:49] What do you think it will look like in the coming years?[19:23] I believe it was Carolyn who asked you, “Well, first hundred days, what are you going to do?” And I believe you just said “listen,” right?[20:19] You don’t come in with an agenda. Is that accurate?[20:44] What excites you about this position?[23:20] What concerns you about stepping into this role?[25:48] Favorite books?[27:35] What’s this business about bread?

To write Eugene Peterson's biography, Winn Collier spent considerable time with at the Peterson's home, read Eugene's letters, and conducted countless interviews. He discovered a man with a pastor's heart who, while far from perfect, had integrity and a deep love for God. Show Notes [1:40] Are you tired of talking about Eugene now? And if so, why? [2:26] What do you think Eugene would think about the biography coming out and all the interviews and such? [3:32] I'm curious to hear, how did you come to write the book, be the biographer? [8:31] What surprised you in that journey? [9:39] Eugene was like the anti celebrity, but yet in a sense he was the perfect celebrity, because their hospitality… I've heard so many stories of people who they just invited in. [11:43] I found it delightful that at the beginning of the book there’s the map of Montana, and it kind of has that, you know, Tolkein feel to it. How important was place, for Eugene?[14:51] How much do you think some of his thinking was influenced by [his mom]? [18:37] What do you hope people remember about Eugene? [20:52] Do you have a favorite story from the book? [24:30] Eugene did pauses when he talked. What was that like for you when you were interviewing him? [32:40] It sounds like a number of these values Eugene and Jan embodied you're trying to lean into ... Could you tell folks a little about what you're up to there in Holland, Michigan? ResourcesThe Eugene Peterson Center for Christian ImaginationPastor Theologians PodcastConnect with Winn Collier on winncollier.comWinn’s book A Burning in My Bones (This is the next book featured in the Renovaré Book Club.)

Podcast guest Carol Berry talks with Nate about how she came to know the life of Vincent van Gogh through the teachings of Henri Nouwen, and what she has learned from these two men about solidarity, compassion, and art as a way to touch people’s lives.Show Notes[2:11] Can I tell you about how I discovered Van Gogh?[4:18] When did you first begin to love Vincent’s work?[7:25] What do you think Vincent was trying to say to people?[10:06] Those doors [of pastoral ministry] were closed for him, correct?[15:13] I’ve always been curious about Starry Night. The church light… why is it out?[16:56] What was it like to sit in Nouwen’s class in 1979?[19:05] The compassionate life… can you speak a little about that?[22:08] Did you get a sense of Henri’s favorite Van Gogh painting?[24:06] Is there any connection you see between the two [men’s lives]?[26:51] The end of Vincent’s life… what do you make of how things turned out for him?[29:33] You did another book on the spiritual life of Vincent. Can you tell us a little about that book?[31:01] How did these two men impact your life?[33:14] There’s an honesty in Vincent’s work that I don’t understand, but I think he told the truth. What are your thoughts on that?ResourcesLearning from Henri Nouwen and Vincent van Gogh: A Portrait of the Compassionate Life, by Carol BerryVincent Van Gogh (Modern Spiritual Masters), by Carol BerryConnect with our friends at the Henri Nouwen SocietyRenovaré Podcast Episode 63 with Deirdre LaNoue - The Spiritual Legacy of Henri Nouwen

In this episode, Nathan talks with author and musician Michael Card about hesed, an untranslatable Hebrew word that expresses God’s love and faithfulness. Michael believes it may be the most important word in Scripture and spent ten years writing a book to unpack its meaning.---Show Notes [2:29] What would you tell your younger self?[3:05] What is it that you care about these days?[6:16] You wrote a book about one word. Tell us about the book.[9:22] What does the word mean to you personally?[10:31] How do you live into it?[15:05] I’m noticing in your writings and in your music this love of Scripture. Where did that come from?[18:31] What do you hope people take away from the book?[22:25] How do you personally work with Scripture these days?ResourcesInexpressible: Hesed and the Mystery of God’s Lovingkindness, by Michael CardMichael Card’s website“Hymn to the Kindness of God,” from his album To the Kindness of God

Nate talks with author John Eldredge about healing from the trauma of the pandemic, benevolent detachment, what it means to consecrate your empathy to Christ, and learning to hear the voice of God.Show Notes [1:19] What was the impetus for this book?[3:57] I'm glad to hear you reference the pandemic in this way. It has really baffled me how silent people are in terms of its effects. I think it’s going to take 5 or 10 years out of this to realize some of the ways that it has negatively impacted, and I wish people talk more about it.[8:25] What do you think people should do (to heal their trauma response)?[15:23] I think I’m hearing that instead of coping mechanism that don’t yield fruit or good results, but coping mechanisms that bring life.[19:50] I really like the idea of benevolent detachment. How do you detach and yet use your ability to change for good?[24:26] One of the phrases I’ll use is trusting people to God. As much as I would like to control and manage things, there are some limitations.[25:06] What does this look like for you, and what are some of the challenges you face in moving into benevolent detachment?[30:33] Why do you think so many Christians are hung up on the idea of hearing from God?ResourcesGet Your Life Back: Everyday Practices in a World Gone Mad, by John EldredgeBeautiful Outlaw, by John EldredgeThe One Minute Pause app

Eighteen century preacher and abolitionist John Woolman, whose journal is a Renovaré Book Club selection, had a profound impact on Renovaré founder Richard Foster, who like Woolman is Quaker. In this episode, Richard discusses the life and work of this humble yet bold follower of Jesus.Show NotesHow did you discover John Woolman’s Journal?What was it, as a college student, reading Woolman’s journal?Woolman’s first experience with slavery.The story of Benjamin Lay.Woolman dealt with the three great isms of our day: racism, militarism, and consumerism.Could you help folks understand a little about Quakerism and the Friends?Tell us about your doctoral dissertation.What would you hope for people reading the book to take away from it?ResourcesThe Journal and Major Essays of John Woolman, edited by Phillips P. MoultonJoin the Renovaré Book Club to read Woolman's book in December 2021

Nathan talks with author Hannah Anderson about seasons, humility, and how the God we love in scripture is a God who is being revealed through nature.Show Notes [1:24] Why do you write?[2:19] How important is it for you to be honest in your writing?[8:21] Could you share a little about your draw to the wonder and mystery in nature?[10:38] How are you in nature, in terms of observing and being?[12:37] What is it about seasons that you’re drawn to?[15:06] Make the connection between your experience growing up and appreciating nature and scripture.[18:04] What are some rhythms or practices for you, being in the created order?[21:44] How did your book, Turning of Days, come to be?[24:55] This summer in Colorado the wildflowers were off the charts. I’ve tried learning their names, and the names of the trees. I found in being able to name them, it enriched my experience. Is this a similar experience for you? Am I on the right path?[29:55] In which Hannah reads a selection from Fall: Section 7 (p. 116)ResourcesTurning of Days: Lessons from Nature, Season, and Spirit, by Hannah AndersonHumble Roots: How Humility Grounds and Nourishes Your Soul, by Hannah AndersonHannah’s website, Sometimes a Light