Humans of Martech

Summary: The future of CDPs, as envisioned by Tejas, is a more flexible, adaptable data architecture that Hightouch is actively shaping. Hightouch, even without the data collection component, is recognized by some of the largest companies in the world as their go-to CDP. Tejas stresses that the reconciliation of 'truth' in data between marketing and data teams isn't solely a tech or architecture problem; it requires an operational shift and closer collaboration between teams. The conversation serves as an essential guide for businesses seeking to optimize their data use and enhance customer experiences.The Software solutions like Hightouch provide a solid framework to tackle this, but the human element—teamwork, alignment, and communication—remains a key determinant in solving these challenges.From Corporate Travel to Reverse ETL: Teja's Journey Back to DataWhen asked about the journey of reverse ETL's inception at Hightouch, Teja revealed the interesting twists and turns of his entrepreneurial path. His initial venture after leaving Segment wasn't directly into the data sphere. He founded a startup, Carry, in the corporate travel space.However, Teja's departure from Segment wasn't just fueled by an entrepreneurial itch. He had reservations about the future trajectory of Customer Data Platforms (CDP). He didn't fully believe CDPs were set to become the standard for managing customer data across industries. With inklings of impending acquisitions and significant changes in the data industry, he left Segment.Teja then spent about eight to nine months with Carry until the onset of COVID-19. Despite the inherent challenges of the travel industry—low margins, high human operation requirements, price-sensitive customers—Carry was growing. Yet, COVID-19 brought it to a grinding halt.With business metrics falling to zero almost overnight, Teja and his co-founders, Auren and Josh, found an unexpected opportunity. They decided to pivot back to their roots in the data industry, tapping into their old ideas and experience from their Segment days. The pandemic, in all its harshness, became a catalyst for their return to the customer data space.Teja's story is far from a linear narrative. The travel venture, the COVID-19 pivot, and the return to the data industry all added unique layers to his entrepreneurial journey. Looking back, Teja feels gratitude for these unexpected turns of events, which led him back to the dynamic world of data and customer platforms.Takeaway: An entrepreneur's journey isn't always a straight path. Teja's experiences, from his departure from Segment to his foray into the travel industry and eventual return to data, highlight the unforeseen opportunities that can surface in the face of challenging times. His story underscores the importance of adaptability and leveraging past experiences to seize new opportunities in the ever-changing business landscape.Composable CDP - The Birth and Journey of a New ParadigmWhen asked about the emergence of the term "composable CDP" and the role Hightouch played in its inception, Tejas reminisced about the early days of this concept's birth. Tejas recalled collaborating with one of their esteemed partners to develop a novel way of approaching Customer Data Platforms (CDPs), distinct from the traditional models. Their goal was to define an architectural blueprint that would resonate with a marketing audience while providing a fresh solution to existing CDP challenges. The result was the "composable CDP."Despite its somewhat confusing nature, this term became a touchstone for their market positioning. But Tejas admitted, many terms in the martech world like "marketing cloud" or "engagement hub" often induce more head scratching than clarity. Their aim, however, was not merely to coin a catchy phrase but to address a pervasive dissatisfaction within the industry. At the time, many large enterprises and mid-market companies were investing heavily in CDPs, hoping to enable marketers to freely explore customer data, create audiences, and tailor customer journeys across all channels. Yet, despite the widespread adoption, most were finding little value in these investments. This stark discrepancy between aspiration and reality was the driving force behind Hightouch. The aim was not just to sell another CDP, but to propose an innovative approach that would enable marketers to leverage data more effectively across the organization. This approach advocated the utilization of the rich data sources already present in company warehouses, and activating it across various customer journey touchpoints. Tejas highlighted that the core value of a solution should not be whether it's bundled or unbundled, but rather, the tangible business outcomes it can drive. As companies invest in housing their data using various BI tools, from Microsoft Power BI to newer players like Looker, the potential to empower marketing teams with this wealth of data is tremendous. Solutions like Hightouch

What’s up everyone, today we’re joined by Kate Nowrouzi, VP of Deliverability at Mailgun by Sinch.Summary: Kate brilliantly dissected the complex realm of email marketing, highlighting the critical need for strategic decision-making and a meticulous, step-by-step approach to restore domain reputation. Drawing upon her unique shift from fighting spam to aiding marketers, she illuminated the nuanced layers of email deliverability. Reinforcing the superiority of genuine engagement over manufactured interactions, Kate underlined the importance of understanding audience needs, continuously refining strategies, and valuing quality over quantity. She also acknowledged the transformative potential of new technologies like BIMI, AMP, and machine learning, suggesting a forward-thinking approach for marketers willing to navigate the growing tech-driven competition.About KateKate started her career in network and anti-spam engineering roles at two major ISPs; Verizon and AOLShe then moved to the vendor side at Fishbowl, a Customer engagement platform for restaurant marketers where she led email deliverability operations Kate's profound experience in email deliverability then guided her to a pivotal role as the SVP of Deliverability and Email Compliance at SparkPost, one of the industry’s most popular email delivery platformsKate’s also been Co-Chair of the Complaint Feedback Loop Committee at theMessaging Anti Abuse Working GroupShe’s an Advisor and Investor for various startupsShe’s also an Advisory Board member of Persian Women in Tech, with a mission toclose the diversity and gender gap in STEMToday, Kate serves as the VP of Deliverability & Product Strategy at Sinch, a public Customer Communications company that acquired Mailgun 2 years agoHarnessing the Power of Insider Knowledge in Email MarketingIn a moment of reflection on her professional journey, Kate highlighted the value she gained from her tenure at AOL. She spent four vital years in the realm of anti-spam operations, an experience that she later brought to her roles at email service providers like SparkPost and Mailgun.Kate began her career in the early 2000s as an anti-spam engineer at AOL, at a time when email marketing was gaining momentum. AOL led the way by offering the first robust spam report option to their members, a trend quickly picked up by other industry titans like Microsoft and Yahoo. However, her transition from ISP to the marketing side or Email Service Providers (ESPs), required a significant shift in mindset.Working on the ISP side, Kate's primary focus had been on shielding members from malicious actors intent on infiltrating their inboxes. Yet, as she transitioned to the ESP environment, her role morphed. Now, she was aiding brands and marketers in ensuring their emails didn't raise spam red flags.This drastic change in problem sets and operational goals required some adaptation. Kate noted the initial challenges of transitioning from one end of the business to another. However, she affirmed that her experience on the ISP side provided invaluable insights that helped guide brands away from appearing spammy in their email marketing efforts.Takeaway: The shift from battling spammers to helping marketers get their emails into inboxes was a challenging, but enlightening journey for Kate. Her early career experience as an anti-spam engineer provided her with an insider’s understanding of what brands should avoid to not come across as spammy, proving to be an indispensable asset in her later roles at ESPs.Shifting Perspectives From Spam Prevention to Marketing DeliveryKate recalls an intriguing philosophical debate that arose during her tenure during her transition from an anti-spam role to an ESP environment. Having battled to block spam on one side and then striving to get marketing content into inboxes on the other, she found herself in a unique conundrum.A memorable instance arose when Kate moved from AOL to Fishbowl, an email marketing platform for restaurants. One night, she was roused from sleep by an urgent issue: a major client's birthday campaign was being blocked by AOL or Yahoo. The client was Red Robin, and the blocking of their campaign was considered a serious matter. Kate, however, found this jarring. Was it worth losing sleep over a blocked birthday campaign, when her previous role had conditioned her to respond to potentially harmful breaches of privacy?But as her colleagues stressed, the situation was indeed significant. Red Robin was a top-tier client and the success of their birthday campaign mattered. This incident served as a defining moment for Kate, reinforcing the fact that she was indeed on the other side of the business now, with a new set of priorities to consider.Takeaway: Kate’s anecdote about the Red Robin incident underlines the drastic shift in perspectives that can occur within the same industry. A blocked marketing campaign might not seem critical to someone from an anti-spam background, but in the wo

What’s up everyone, today we have the distinct honor of being joined by the Martech Landscape creator, the Author of Hacking Marketing, The Godfather of Martech himself, mister Scott Brinker.Summary: Scott sees AI as a power boost, not a replacement in marketing. He imagines marketers wielding AI to parse data and enhance specialist roles. AI's potential when combined with composability democratizes technical tool access, letting every marketer glean key insights from huge data. Yet, the human touch in martech is vital; marketing leaders need training and internalcommunication chops. Scott's future martech leaders are tech-savvy, eloquent communicators, guiding their teams through the constant evolution of the marketing landscape.About ScottThroughout his career, Scott’s navigated seamlessly between the realms of marketing and technologyHe put his first entrepreneurial mark in the martech world when he Co-founded ion interactive, a martech SaaS providing interactive content tools for marketersIn 2008, he began sharing industry insights on the Chief Marketing Technologist blog with the hope of serving as a resource to help spread the “marketing technology” memeA few years later, he released the first ever version of the Martech Landscape maps, back when there was only about 150 martech vendors He launched the esteemed MarTech conference in 2014 and remains its program chair to this dayToday he’s VP of Platform Ecosystem at HubSpot where he enhances their synergy with the broader marketing tech landscape, a landscape that maps over 11,000 vendors today He continues to be the acclaimed force behind chiefmartec.com, hailed universally as the martech world's ultimate wellspring of knowledge and insightHow Marketing Jobs Will Be Reshaped by AIScott firmly places himself in the camp that views AI not as a threat to marketing jobs but as a crucial tool for the modern marketer. He holds a strong belief that good marketing requires human input, and this won't be changing anytime soon. Scott reframes the common adage, often heard in marketing circles, that a marketer's job won't be replaced by AI but by another marketer who is adept at using AI.As tongue-in-cheek as this phrase might be, Scott sees a lot of truth in it. He views AI as a broad set of capabilities that can be harnessed in various ways to enhance marketing. While the initial applications, such as content generation, are undoubtedly intriguing, the real potential of AI in marketing goes beyond these use cases.Scott argues that the power of AI lies in how it allows marketers to better harness data, and enables more sophisticated automation across the entire marketing spectrum. Particularly on the Martech side of things, Scott anticipates marketing operations leaders and Martech professionals leveraging generative AI to up-level their stack and operational capabilities.Rather than viewing AI as a potential replacement for their roles, Scott suggests that marketers should see AI as a key part of their job description. It won't take over all aspects of their work, but it will become a significant component of what they do.Takeaway: The future of AI in marketing is not about replacement but about enhancement. AI is set to become a vital tool that will empower marketers to up-level their operational capabilities and harness data more effectively. As Scott astutely points out, the job of a marketer won't be replaced by AI; instead, it will be reshaped by those marketers who can successfully integrate AI into their strategies.Early-Stage Marketers Should Choose a Focus Area Then Utilize AIAccording to Scott, marketing has always offered a myriad of different specialties and that, arguably, has been amplified over the past 10 to 15 years. Yes, there's a role for the 'jack-of-all-trades' or marketing generalist. Still, as Scott astutely notes, there are also several specialized roles that marketers can pursue, each requiring a unique set of skills. Whether it's hosting a podcast or being a master in content creation, each specialization requires dedication and unique abilities.In terms of marketing operations, Scott suggests that this is another area of marketing requiring a specialized skill set. For those new to marketing, the challenge then becomes deciding whether to become a generalist marketing manager or specialize in a specific area. Scott believes that the generalist path, while rewarding, can be quite challenging because of its broad scope. On the other hand, specializing in a particular area, like content creation or marketing operations, can provide a focus. This concentration, according to Scott, not only enables you to become proficient in a specific aspect but also allows you to learn generalist capabilities, given that marketing is inherently a team sport.Scott's advice for those looking to utilize AI tools in their early marketing career is to choose a focus area, then learn and grow from there. While the field of marketing may appear vast, narrowi

What’s up everyone, today we’re joined by Pini Yakuel, a trailblazing entrepreneur and the dynamic CEO of Optimove, a company at the forefront of AI in marketing.Summary: Pioneering the intersection of AI and marketing, Pini Yakuel sheds light on the transformative potential and present limitations of AI in the creative process. With Optimove, the era of hyper-personalized marketing campaigns has been around for a while, encouraging early-stage marketers to embrace the uniquely human aspects of their craft. Pini's vision harmonizes human creativity and AI precision, reshaping marketing strategies through self-optimizing campaigns and introducing an innovative approach to email marketing metrics. Underneath it all, Optimove's CDP, powered by Snowflake, emphasizes the power of packaged marketing solutions and the critical role of intelligent data usage in a unified platform. As we unpack Optimove's cutting edge AI features and we navigate the dynamic landscape of AI in marketing, Pini's insights offer a valuable compass.About PiniFrom his early days as a university professor in Tel Aviv to the helm of Optimove, Pini's journey is marked by a relentless pursuit of innovationHe founded Optimove in 2009, pioneering the use of predictive analytics and machine learning in marketing, redefining the marketing standards in retail and gaming industriesUnder Pini's leadership, Optimove has morphed from a consultancy firm to a global SaaS company, serving 350 brands worldwide, with multiple offices and 220 employeesPini is celebrated for his transformative leadership and commitment to pushing the boundaries of marketing, embodying the forward-thinking spirit marketers should aspire toThe Evolution of AI in Marketing: A Perspective from PioneersPioneering AI marketer Pini has witnessed first-hand the transformative impact that AI, and specifically language models like GPT, have had on the world of marketing. His fascination isn't new; he's spent over a decade using AI to analyze customer data, setting trends rather than following them. Now, the advent of natural language processing (NLP) technologies is opening up new frontiers.Pini's fascination lies not only in the evolution of AI but also in the practical applications it can bring. Currently, GPT is sparking a lot of excitement in marketing, particularly in areas like copywriting and email marketing. Innovators are continuously finding creative ways to leverage GPT's capabilities, and Pini is no exception. He's eager to explore different ways to utilize GPT, from innovative marketing applications to shaking up traditional homework assignments in schools. Yes, you read that correctly. With AI's progress, school assignments as we know them might soon become a thing of the past.However, Pini also raises a note of caution amid the hype. There are bold claims out there about how AI will revolutionize industries, with some suggesting a handful of developers with OpenAI could outperform a traditional development team of a hundred. Predictions abound that marketers and designers could be entirely replaced, that professional photo shoots will cease to exist, and that human copywriting will become obsolete. But Pini isn't entirely sold on these extreme forecasts. He sees these as part of the hype cycle, where reality and expectations might not align perfectly.Despite the hype, Pini acknowledges that AI's advancements represent a significant step forward in AI capabilities, and it's this progress that fuels the current excitement. His prediction for the immediate future? A revolution in search engine technology, brought about by AI. He envisions a future where search engines provide deeper, more contextual responses to queries, effectively eliminating the need for multiple clicks or further reading. In Pini's eyes, this improved search experience will become a reality sooner than we might think.Takeaway: The rise of AI, especially in the realm of natural language processing, is transforming various sectors, including marketing. While it's essential to temper expectations amidst the hype, there's no denying the impact of AI's progress. For pioneers like Pini, the future of AI in marketing is about harnessing these capabilities in innovative ways. His immediate prediction? A revolution in search engine technology for a more efficient and rich user experience.The Potential and Limitations of AI in Marketing JobsA common question that arises whenever there's a breakthrough in technology like AI is: will it replace human jobs? For marketers, this question is at the forefront, given the recent rise of AI into mainstream conversation.Pini, however, sees the situation in a nuanced way, particularly when it comes to creative tasks such as design work. For instance, let's consider AI applications in the context of creating digital art or graphic design, like the type of work generated by DALL-E, OpenAI's art-producing AI. While AI has demonstrated its prowess in creating complex, comic-boo

Summary: Wyatt Bales served up an awesome episode, calling marketers to defend themselves with SQL proficiency amidst rising AI and automation. His vision? The future marketer as a 'full-stack' pro, tech-savvy and strategic, partnering with AI to steer marketing operations to be faster and more data-driven. Wyatt emphasizes maintaining a strong grasp on foundational skills alongside AI tools. In his projected future, consumers willingly opt into hyper-personalized, non-intrusive ads, reshaping advertising dynamics. His takeaway? The marketing landscape is becoming a less daunting journey, navigated by versatile, full-stack professionals who strike the perfect balance between tech and strategy.About WyattWyatt Bales, Chief Customer Officer at Bluprintx.Wyatt got his start as an analyst at Unilever where he got the knack for using Teradata systems and decided to go consulting for the vendors themselves. At Teradata, he implemented marketing automation and an analytics software for a few Fortune 100 customers.A few colleagues of his went over to a lesser known company called Marketo, where he started as employee # 201 He moved up to Solutions Architect where he focused on revenue attribution and was assigned to some of Marketo’s largest accounts such as Microsoft, Facebook and Philips66..3 years later, Wyatt took a Senior Marketing role at Uber where he eventually relocated to Amsterdam to lead their Enterprise CRM strategy team where he was the principal architect for Uber’s global roll-out of Marketo’s ecosystemAfter being a customer of Bluprintx while at Uber, he got the itch to get back into consulting and open a new Bluprint location in Amsterdam, where he led the European consulting practiceToday Wyatt manages the global P&L and a team of 85 Bluprint consultants and engineersThe Silent Struggle: Marketing Headcount vs Technology IntegrationWyatt begins by addressing a crucial, yet often overlooked issue in the realm of marketing technology: the ongoing tension between maintaining adequate team size and implementing advanced technology. While discussions about the shiny new tech and exciting innovations typically dominate the conversation, he emphasizes that the human aspect, specifically the team size, can get sidelined.Reflecting on his extensive experience, Wyatt recalls numerous instances where businesses grappled with this reality. Often, they found themselves constrained by their inability to grow their teams to match their objectives. "I don't have enough people to do that," a common lament, resonates across various companies he has engaged with. This constant struggle to secure sufficient headcount is a reality that many marketing teams face. But, why is this the case?Wyatt points to a counterintuitive relationship between technological progress and team size. As businesses lean more heavily into automation and AI, there's a growing belief that these advancements can replace the need for large teams. This phenomenon is particularly noticeable in the enterprise space, where headcount tends to remain stagnant, even as marketing technology gets introduced at an accelerating rate.One might be quick to laud this as a victory for efficiency. However, Wyatt prompts us to consider the other side of the coin: What are the implications of this move towards automation and its impact on team size? Are we heading towards a future where automation overtakes human creativity and effort in marketing? And if so, what are the implications for those who've made their careers in this space?Takeaway: Wyatt's reflection presents a compelling portrait of the struggle within the marketing world. The tug of war between advancing technology and the need for human intellect exposes a significant challenge faced by many companies today. As we move further into the realm of AI and automation, businesses must grapple with the question: How do we strike the balance between leveraging cutting-edge technology and preserving the invaluable human element that drives creativity and innovation?Becoming Future-Proof: The Power of SQL SkillsWith the growing concern about AI potentially replacing entry-level jobs in marketing, Wyatt offers a lifeline: learning SQL. This piece of advice is significant in an era where anxiety about job prospects, particularly among soon-to-be graduates, is increasingly prevalent. Wyatt provides reassurance, suggesting that mastering SQL can equip individuals with a skill that's in high demand and potentially immune to the trend of job automation.For those unfamiliar, SQL (Structured Query Language) is a programming language used for managing and manipulating databases. It's a valuable skill across various marketing roles, including strategy, market operations, and analytics. And according to Wyatt, this skill can act as a powerful tool for carving out one's career path, regardless of the turns the industry might take.As companies continue to leverage data to inform their strategies, the role of data a

What’s up folks, today we’re joined by Aliaksandra Lamachenka, Marketing Technology Consultant and Nonprofit founder.Summary: Aliaksandra takes us on a journey through the evolving AI landscape in marketing, promising a future shaped by deep human expertise and broad understanding, all areas where AI is still playing catch up. The episode is ripe with insights about the rise of hybrid, business-savvy data product managers, who are subtly revolutionizing martech by marrying marketing perspectives with innovative thinking. They are unearthing overlooked insights, much like Duolingo, which leveraged data science to redefine its target metrics and boost its DAU. Amidst the din of the composable vs packaged CDPs debate, Aliaksandra brings our attention back to the basics - the crucial need for quality, traceable data. This illuminates the pivotal role of open data hubs, which could unlock the next chapter in efficient data management and utilization. Meanwhile, vendors of composable data platforms face a crossroads: will they expand to cater to growing customer needs or hold fast to their roots? Their decision could very well shape the future of martech, steering its course towards either the democratization of data or maintenance of the status quo.About AliaksandraBorn in Belarus, Aliaksandra got her start in gaming and SaaS startups in product marketing rolesIn 2017 she became Head of Marketing at SplitMetrics, a team of experts building the future of mobile marketing toolsShe then moved to the UK to lead a product marketing team at Skyscanner, the popular flight comparison site where she focused on app growth and martechIn 2021, she joined Depop as Marketing Technology Lead where she owned compliance management, multi-touch attribution and much moreSince then she’s partnered with various companies as a Marketing Technology and Growth advisor, including the popular female health app– FloIn April of last year, Aliaksandra co-founded Leleka Art, an online nonprofit marketplace that allows you to buy artwork made by children from Ukraine built on top of a custom money transfer system Today, she’s scaled Leleka to a team of 30+ volunteers, +5k sellers and 15k works of art helping children and their families make over 30kThe Organic Evolution of AI in Marketing and Lessons from Architectural HistoryAliaksandra takes a particularly compelling approach to understanding the potential role of AI in marketing. Drawing a unique analogy from the records of Japanese architectural history, she paints a picture of how AI's integration could be less of a disruptive force, but rather an organic and gradual process.Following the Second World War, a group of young Japanese architects refused to view architecture as merely a functional tool. They envisioned buildings as living organisms, an idea that later came to be known as "Japanese metabolism." These architects designed structures with a central spine, to which they could add or subtract modular capsules as needed. At the time, their ideas were regarded as revolutionary, indicative of what the future would undoubtedly hold.Decades later, their concepts have not been realized in their envisioned form, mainly being used for storage purposes, yet they have certainly left an indelible mark. The idea of high modularity, the foundational spine with small attachable elements, is now visible in various facets of our lives. You can observe it in modular housing, landscape-integrated buildings, and even in the functionality of platforms like Pandora, Tesla, or the App Store.Aliaksandra sees AI's trajectory in a similar light. Like the revolutionary architectural concepts of the past, AI's ideas may appear bold and groundbreaking. However, their integration will likely be more gradual than anticipated, quietly shaping our future. Much like the world adapted to the concepts of modularity, so too will it adapt to AI.Just as we accept modular buildings as a natural part of our world today, in 20 or 50 years, AI's presence in marketing will feel just as natural and intrinsic. AI won't displace marketers overnight but will instead weave itself into the fabric of the profession organically.Takeaway: The progression of AI in marketing is not likely to be a sudden, disruptive force. Instead, as Aliaksandra's rich analogy suggests, AI will bring about a natural evolution in the field, slowly but surely shaping its future.AI and the Future of Early-Stage Marketing Careers, Depth, Breadth, and GeneralismOne of Aliaksandra’s key points is the future value of professionals who can operate at the intersection of different industries or specialties. In a world where the boundaries between industries are blurring, being an expert in more than one field could be a significant advantage. For instance, understanding both engineering and marketing, or medicine and business, can provide a broader perspective and unique insights. In the future job market, the collision of different worlds could be the breedi

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of chatting with the profoundly eloquent Juan Mendoza.Summary: Juan unpacks the unique journey of OpenAI, underscoring the importance of distinguishing between tech hype and real value. As AI intertwines with our lives, Juan highlights the delicate dance of harnessing its efficiency while preserving human creativity. He calls for a critical balance in using AI as a creative aid without stunting our own creative prowess. Amid the benefits, Juan also raises crucial questions about trust and privacy, advocating for marketers to use AI responsibly. Ultimately, this episode reaffirms the need to thoughtfully navigate AI’s limitless potential while upholding our fundamental human values and ethics.About JuanJuan is based in Melbourne, Australia where he got his start in various roles including startup marketing, martech strategy and conversion rate optimization. He spent 4 years at The Lumery, a premier Martech consulting shop where he worked on customer centric strategies across various channels.In 2020, he started the Martech Weekly, a newsletter covering where the industry is going and why.He’s also the host of the Making Sense of Martech podcast, an extension of his newsletterOne podcast and a newsletter isn’t enough for Juan though, in 2022 he teamed up with Scott Brinker and started the Big Martech show covering big news and big ideas in Martech4 months after launching a premium subscription and growing his newsletter to thousands of martech pros over 65 countries, Juan decided to go full-time on TMW Recently he announced TMW 100 – a global Martech awards event ranking the most innovative marketing technology companies from 1st to 100th placeThe OpenAI Approach: Laser-Focus and High-Quality Language ModelsJuan underscored the significance of OpenAI’s niche focus and dedication to developing large-scale language models. Unlike big tech giants—Google, Amazon, Meta and others—who spread their resources and attention over various types of AI technologies, OpenAI chose a distinct path. They concentrated all their efforts on building transformative generative models like GPT-3 and GPT-4, which set the groundwork for the success of ChatGPT.Juan suggested that OpenAI’s edge lies in their extreme focus, patience, and funding. Established as a Silicon Valley tech company, OpenAI was backed by tech tycoons like Elon Musk and Microsoft, as well as some of the world’s largest venture capital firms. However, OpenAI’s goal differed. They weren’t trying to distribute AI across various services and products. Instead, they strived to create something unique and powerful—a tool that could manipulate language with an unprecedented level of precision.Juan further highlighted how OpenAI’s technology feels “magical” compared to competitors. For instance, Google’s BERT, although an impressive model, doesn’t meet the same level of accuracy as ChatGPT. Moreover, it ‘hallucinates’—generates incorrect or nonsensical outputs—significantly more often than ChatGPT.Juan also reminded us of the chatbot craze of 2016, which, despite the hype, resulted in less-than-stellar customer experiences. Fast forward to today, the launch of GPT-based models has reinvigorated the chatbot space, breathing new life into the industry. The key difference? An AI agent that can actually provide intelligent, useful responses.Takeaway: OpenAI’s specific concentration on creating large, high-quality language models, backed by extreme patience and funding, was pivotal in their success story. Their dedication to a niche allowed them to develop an AI that is more accurate and less likely to hallucinate than its competitors. This focus transformed the realm of chat interfaces, redefining the future of AI agents and encouraging a fresh wave of startups to build on this advanced technology.The Adoption Race: Comparing ChatGPT and Snapchat’s AI Tools Juan’s analysis of the rapid spread of ChatGPT brought fascinating insights. He cited how ChatGPT became one of the fastest-growing apps globally, reaching a million users in merely five days. This impressive rate outpaced even Instagram and TikTok’s growth, both of which took weeks to months to reach the same number of users. He attributed this meteoric rise to the simple yet brilliant user experience, which only required users to create an account and start chatting.However, Juan posed an interesting counter-argument, comparing ChatGPT’s growth with the newly launched AI tool by Snapchat—Snap AI. Despite being on the market for only two months, Snap AI already boasts 125 million users and over 10 billion messages sent. It reached 100 million users faster than ChatGPT, achieving the feat in just two months compared to ChatGPT’s four to five months.Juan speculated on the factors driving Snap AI’s rapid growth, posing two possibilities. One might be the timing—Snap AI could be riding the wave of excitement and acceptance generated by GPT-based technology. Another potential fac

What’s up folks, today we’re extremely privileged to be joined by Boris Jabes, the Co-Founder & CEO at Census.Boris is originally from Ottawa, Canada where he went on to study Computer Science at the University of Waterloo He got his start at Microsoft where he spent 7 years in various Program Manager roles leading C++ and 3D graphics for Visual StudioHe then moved to SanFrancisco to co-found a password manager tool called Meldium, backed by Y Combinator In 2014 he sold the startup to LogMeIn where he became a Senior Director for a year and a half – before jumping into Angel Investing in which he took part in startups like Canvas, Endgame, Lambda and ReflectIn 2018, Boris Co-founded Census where he’s also CEO today.Census is a reverse ETL tool that allows marketers to activate customer data from their data warehouse Boris is also a podcaster, in 2021 he and his team launched The Sequel Show which counts over 30 episodes with some of the smartest minds in data and is one of the greatest resources to help marketers bridge the gap with data teamsThe Thread Connecting Password Management and Reverse ETLBoris's first venture was into password management, but it wasn't out of love for passwords. It stemmed from a frustration with the scattered nature of employee identities across numerous apps. Each login seemed to represent a different version of oneself. The solution? A first-of-its-kind enterprise-grade password management tool designed for teams, aimed at streamlining the login process for any office application.Boris describes this as a quest to create a federated version of oneself - a concept known as Single Sign-On (SSO). Behind the tech jargon, the aim was simple: to make people's lives easier by reducing the friction caused by hundreds of passwords.His journey then led to Census, a reverse ETL venture. Again, the core issue was fragmented identities, but this time, it was the customers' identities in question. Why were these identities inconsistent across different divisions within a company?Just as with the password management venture, Boris saw the need for a central place from which customer identities could be federated. He was addressing the same problem but from a different angle.Boris's focus has always been on alleviating the pain points created by disparate data. From password management to reverse ETL, he continually seeks to resolve identity disparities, a testament to the power of innovation that lies at the intersection of distinct yet interconnected problems.Experiencing the Pain Point Firsthand: The Genesis of CensusIt was when Boris's first startup was acquired that he truly felt the problem Census would later solve. Joining forces with LogMeIn, a larger company with a keen interest in their software and user base, illuminated a stark issue. The marketers and salespeople at LogMeIn wanted to engage with the users and cross-sell the software, but they struggled. The key issue? They didn't seem to have a clear understanding of what the users were doing.Despite the availability of tools to connect data, none seemed to coalesce the company around a single version of reality. The tools used by marketers were different from those used by salespeople. These fragmented solutions failed to bring everyone onto the same page, especially considering that product behavior was becoming an increasingly important driver.The seed for Census was thus sown. Boris and his team envisioned a solution that would work at scale, bridging the gap between different divisions and providing a unified view of customer data. The challenge was technical, but the ultimate goal went beyond that. They aimed to empower various stakeholders – marketers, salespeople, product teams, finance – to take action based on reliable, trustworthy data.Census was born out of the need to solve a real problem – to provide a single version of truth that would allow different divisions within a company to understand and act upon user behavior efficiently and effectively. This venture underlines Boris's ability to observe, understand, and respond to the intricate problems arising from fragmented data, paving the way for more streamlined operations and decision-making within organizations.Unraveling the Concept of the Packaged Customer Data PlatformAs we delve deeper into the realm of martech, there's no escaping the maze of terminology and definitions, especially when it comes to the concept of the Customer Data Platform (CDP). From a distance, it might seem like yet another acronym tossed into the complex landscape, but understanding it is essential.In Boris's view, the packaged CDP (or pack CDP) is a lineage of software specifically designed with marketers in mind, most often serving B2C companies (at least initially). But what does it really do? It performs three critical functions:It helps collect events from your website and applications.It serves as a source of truth for that data specifically for the marketing team.It enables the

In our latest episode, we're thrilled to feature Dan Balcauski, Founder of Product Tranquility, as we navigate the world of SaaS pricing models.About Dan BalcauskiStarted his career in product management at National Instruments, based in Austin, Texas.Ascended to the role of Product Strategy Principal at SolarWinds, a SaaS company serving DevOps and IT professionals.Made a significant shift to B2C, leading product at LawnStarter Lawn Care.Boasted a successful freelance career as a product manager, earning a place in the top 3% of PM professionals worldwide on Toptal.Imparts his industry knowledge as a program leader at Northwestern University, where he teaches product strategy.In 2019, Balcauski launched Product Tranquility, a venture dedicated to assisting B2B SaaS CEOs in defining pricing and packaging for their products.A Personal AdventureWhat sets Balcauski apart is his remarkable spirit of adventure. Before starting Product Tranquility, he embarked on a personal voyage as an independent travel consultant, planning and undertaking a global expedition through 21 countries. This extraordinary journey demonstrated his fervor for continuous learning, during which he acquired new skills ranging from digital marketing and Spanish proficiency to kiteboarding and Argentine Tango.Join us as we dive deep into the insights and stories Balcauski brings to the table.Value-Based PricingIn our engaging chat, Dan Balcauski brought up some crucial insights regarding the struggles businesses often face while setting up pricing in the SaaS industry. There's often a lack of structure, leading to heated debates rather than an organized approach. To combat this, Balcauski introduces the 'Services' model.Key Challenges in Pricing:An unclear target customer profile: Companies often struggle to understand exactly who they are serving.Poor understanding of how they create customer value: Businesses might be unclear on the unique value they deliver to their customers.Unclear product differentiation: Companies often grapple with distinguishing their products from others in the market.Underappreciation for the depth of decisions in pricing and packaging: Many overlook the vast array of factors impacting pricing, focusing only on surface-level elements.The 'Services' Model:The 'Services' model stands for Segments, Value, Competition, and Strategy, and was designed to address these challenges.Segments: Understand the specific context and constraints of your customer segments, as they dictate what they value most.Value: Recognize how each segment perceives value and rank orders value drivers, influencing how they value your product.Competition: Be aware of the competitive alternatives each segment has available. What would they use if your product didn't exist?Strategy: This comes in the Michael Porter sense of the word. Strategy involves trade-offs; you can't be everything to everyone. Decide who you're going to target, how you position yourselves in their minds, and how you'll balance the different elements of SaaS packaging. This includes price metrics, price models, offer configurations, etc.The combination of these four components informs the price level you set, helping your business achieve its objectives. The 'Services' model ensures a more thoughtful, strategic approach to pricing, moving away from arbitrary decisions.What is value based pricing? Dan Balcauski clarified the concept of value-based pricing and distinguished it from other terms like value metrics and price metrics.Value-Based PricingValue-based pricing, at its core, concerns how value is divided between buyer and seller in a transaction. This notion dates back to Adam Smith and the concept of trade, where specialization and trading lead to overall improvements for everyone involved.“...goes all the way back to Adam Smith with trade, right, you've got the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker, they don't all try to, you know, bake their own bread and cut their own meat, etc. Because it's better if we all specialize, we're all better off if we specialize in trade, right.” - Dan Balcauski Value Metric vs. Price MetricValue Metric: Using a 'Jobs to be Done' framework, the value metric is how customers measure the effectiveness of your product in achieving their specific outcomes. These outcomes could be economic (saving time, decreasing costs, increasing revenue), emotional (reducing anxiety, boosting status), or social (contributing to causes like climate change, equal rights, education, health care).Price Metric: While value metrics focus on the customer, price metrics focus on the product. The price metric is the unit of value for which the customer is charged concerning the product (e.g., number of users, API transactions, gigabytes of data transferred, etc.). Ideally, the value metric and price metric should be correlated, meaning that the way customers derive value from your product should inform the units by which you charge.Outcome-Based PricingThe

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of chatting with Mike Rizzo, you’ll be hard pressed to find someone who’s done as much for the marketing Ops community.He got his start in marketing at California-based tech startups and eventually worked in b2b SaaS where he got his hands dirty in several martech toolsIn 2017, he founded MO Pros, a Slack channel dedicated to connecting with Marketing Operations ProfessionalsMike also took a short turn in the agency world where he was Director of Marketing Strategy for Client Accounts at Human, Orange County’s full-service Inbound Marketing Agency He then returned in-house and boomeranged back to one of his earliest startups to lead Community and Loyalty programsHe’s also the co-host of Ops Cast by MO Pros, a podcast for Marketing Ops Pros by Marketing Ops ProsLast year, Mike double down on the community he started and launched MarketingOps.com taking a community-led approach to building career resources that are purpose-built for MO ProsToday, his community counts more than 4,000 martech professionals and is one of the few communities I frequent on a daily basisMike, excited to have you on, not sure why it’s taken this long to chat with you.MO ProsRecently you shared that you don’t take any payroll from MarketingOps(.)com despite all the costs and time you pour into this venture. I was kind of shocked by this honestly. This isn’t just a podcast that you’re spending a few hours on every week. I imagine quite a bit more work and a lot more tech. Can you shine a light on everything that is MO Pros these days and is the revenue you are generating from it just re-invested into the community and paying your costs? What’s stopping you from going all-in on this project?"No Bullsh*t Demo" programI think one of the things that sets your community apart from both a user but also a sponsor/brand perspective is your "No Bullsh*t Demo" program. I’ve sat in on a few of these and for martech companies selling to marketers, this is one of the best ways to reach your ICP.Walk us through how you got this idea and if you’re seeing this more in other communities?MOPS-APALOOZA https://marketingops.com/mopsapalooza23/ You’ve got a big conference coming up in Nov later this year featuring big name speakers like Scott Brinker (Chiefmartec) and Juan Mendoza (TMW). I’d love to hear the story behind creating an in person event and how you went about it and getting big name speakers?I’ll give you the floor to pitch the conference to the audience. Why is this going to be different from other events we’ve been to? You know those events that cost a pretty penny only to get disappointed by talks and come back to your company with little insights and a few new business cards.What’s a certified marketing ops pro?Recently you ranted about take-home assignments in interview rounds and asked the community how we might find ways to prove the skills we have in MOps AHEAD of our next interview. You got a lot of interesting comments on your post. One thing I was surprised that no one commented about is how wildly different the role of MOps is at a startup as a 1 person MOPs team doing everything under the sun vs. at a big 50+ MOps team at a massive enterprise company. I’ve seen this first hand. Different skills and different types of humans… maybe there’s a cert for startup/smb/enterprise marketing ops proBased on the feedback you got, what’s your current thoughts on this, what’s a certified marketing ops pro?AI not replacing any marketers any time soonWe can’t get through a podcast these days without talking about something that’s on everyone’s minds, even if some of us have muted all those AI tech bros on Twitter… I don’t think you’d describe yourself as an AI critic or detractor but you’ve said in a few places that you don’t think AI will be replacing any marketing jobs any time soon.I think the key thing here is that you’re using the term “anytime soon” haha… that could be 3 months like it could be 5 years so you’re saving yourself from potential ridicule by not giving a fixed definition on your time horizon.But maybe we can spend a bit of time here because this is something we don’t totally agree on.AI not replacing community-focused rolesIn our 4 part series on AI, we had a deep dive into how to prepare and future proof your career, potentially exploring new areas of marketing that will be less likely to be impacted. One of those is community-focused roles, which you obviously know a thing or two about.What advice would you have for listeners who don’t have any or little experience with community and events to get some experience and potentially explore this area of speciality?Immersive, personalized events of the futureWe’re big sci-fi fans here on the podcast and love thinking about the speculative future. What are some of the areas that excite you the most about the future of community-led marketing? One that’s thrown around a lot – and likely only going to get even crazier with Apple’s Visio

What’s up folks, today we have a super fun conversation with Pratik Desai, Founder and Chief Architect at 1to1.Pratik’s a Rocket Scientist turned Martech personalization expertHe’s armed with a bachelor’s from Rutgers in Aerospace and Mechanical EngineeringHe got his start at Accenture in Technology Consulting and later J&J in consumer apps as a digital product managerHe later took a deep dive into Martech when he became Lead product manager at PVH focused on Salesforce Marketing productsThis led him to spend 3 years at Salesforce where he worked his way up to Personalization Practice Lead (Head of Delivery Services for Personalization)Most recently, Pratik started his own agency called 1to1 to focus on personalization strategy and implementation He also runs a weekly AI Discussion Group to help folks keep up with the fast changing landscape of Curation and Generative AIHe’s a well traveled, trivia loving full stack developerPratik, pumped to chat with you today, thanks for your time!From Aerospace and Sci-fi to martech and personalization Pratik, you have a degree in Aerospace and Mechanical Engineering as well as your pilot license, is this all a backup plan for AI takeover and you naturally shift to space exploration and interplanetary marketing? 😆Pratik’s answer: Aerospace industry wasn’t as mainstream when I graduated and the lucrative Aerospace jobs were in defense. I struggled to see myself going down that route and…Accenture does a damn good job of recruiting engineers out of RutgersLuck is taking the opportunities as they present themselves….which really just set the tone for my career for the next 10 yearsThe pilot's license came after! After a few years of working in technology, I started to miss the thrills of aviation and decided to get a private pilot's license. The feeling of freedom you get when you start traveling is exponentially increased when you actually fly yourself there! What does aerospace and martech have in common? In preparation to transition to my next question we asked ChatGPT what martech and aerospace have in common, it said. Data-driven decision making: In both cases, the ability to collect, analyze, and make decisions based on data is critical.Technological advancements and innovation, specifically use of simulation and modeling tools: Both fields need to stay at the cutting edge of technology to be effective. Problem-solving and customer-centric approach: Both fields involve solving complex problems while keeping the user in mind. Integration: Whether it’s engines, avionics, control systems or landing gear or if it’s CRMs, CMSs, CDPs and MAPs… Both aerospace and martech involve the integration of multiple systems and components.Which one would you pick?Pratik’s answer: Studying engineering definitely sets you up for success in so many different industries. The problem-solving coupled with the data-centric decision making puts you on a path that really helps you excelBut the biggest parallel to getting things right would be integrations. In Aerospace Engineering, there are SO many systems that have to work together and if they don’t, the outcomes could be catastrophic. I can’t tell you the amount of MarTech implementations that I’ve been apart of where integrations don’t get enough love, for various reasons:The source or destination system is owned by a team that wasn’t informed of the transformationThe IT team has conflicting prioritiesETL transfers are easier, so we’ll start there - and it just never becomes priority to make things real-timeEtc Science fictionWe’re huge fans of science fiction on the podcast, so I’d be remiss not to take a short turn here. I made a big assumption here but based on your field of study I guessed that you are a sci-fi fan… I’d love to get your list of favorite science fiction books or movies but more importantly I’d love your take on the speculative future of personalization and what that looks like according to Pratik?I recently read All Our Wrong Todays by Elan Mastai and in one of his alternate future timelines he describes a world where advertising isn’t just 1to1, it’s also tailored based on your mood that day, what you had for breakfast, events on your calendar next week. The protagonist’s big idea is to offer consumers a flat fee to opt out of ads completely, but it’s a big flop. In that world, consumers actually wanted hyper tailored ads.Pratik’s answer: First, I absolutely LOVE time travel stories. I think we, as a society, have learned so much about how the physical world works - it’s fascinating to see how movies/books start to build out the rules for things we don’t understand. With time travel, time dilation is a starting point - but then you’re really free to start building your own rules. Are we in a multiverse? A fixed timeline? A dynamic timeline? Some of my favorites in how they build out the rules and create logical consistencies: Primer, InterstellarThat being said, I TRULY agree that consumers crave hyper-personaliz

Today, we are diving deep into a topic that's pertinent in our fast-paced, hyper-connected world… no not AI, taking a break from that haha - Talking about escapism, and the importance of disconnecting from work. On the show we like to balance the hard martech topics but also the human angle. This is an episode that feels quite timely. In a time where being 'always-on' is the norm, and our work Slack is just a ping away, it's crucial to understand the significance of stepping back. Escapism isn't just about dodging reality or ignoring responsibilities; it's about giving our minds the necessary break to recharge and rejuvenate. I’m a big fan of fiction and love sharing top TV show and book picks and always wanted to find an excuse to do this on the podcast so what better way to do it then an episode about the benefits of escapism and detaching from work. So stay tuned later in the episode for my fav TV shows and books.Here’s today’s main takeaway: When used properly, escapism through fictional narratives is an essential aspect of maintaining our mental health, enhancing our overall creativity and helping us become better humans. The irony of recording this episode on the weekend isn’t lost on me, but this is my hobby and we’re having our best month ever on the podcast so I wanted to keep the momentum going and continue giving JT a bit of a break. Here’s a quick outline of what I’ll cover today:Definitions, what is escapism, what is healthy, escapism and what’s the difference between meditationThe importance of disconnecting from work and how to successfully do thisWhat happens to your brain when you indulge in fictional narratives Strategies for healthy escapismMy top TV shows and my top booksHow to strike a balance and avoid over-reliance I’ll start off by confessing that I didn’t always think this (that escapism is an essential aspect of maintaining our mental health and enhancing our creativity). In my younger career, I fully embodied the idea that an hour spent on learning things that can’t help your career is an hour wasted. If I read a book, it was about business or marketing.If I was listening to a podcast, it was about marketing automation.If I was reading a blog or a newsletter, it was about martech.If I was watching Youtube videos it was Photoshop tutorials.While this is great and likely contributed to increased performance at work, it didn’t give my brain the break it needed to disconnect from work topics.Movies and TV shows were the exception though. If I watched a movie it was sometimes a documentary about consumerism or psychology but movies were where I got my main dose of fiction. I grew up an avid movie buff and watched all the classics and most of IMDB’s top 250 movies of all time. I didn’t grow up in a household with workaholic parents but they did love their work. My dad, specifically a photographer and video editor, spent a lot of his down time watching youtube videos and tutorials following industry tech and other photographers. He’s definitely a source for instilling this growth mindset in me. But what he also did was read a lot of books. Some non fiction biographies, but lots, lots of fiction. John Sandford, Ian Rankin, Peter James. I guess it kind of instilled this idea that you can be amazing at your craft, but still indulge in fiction.I’ve had several jobs that you could describe as high expectation, high pressure. I remember when the shift to remote work began a few years back. Working from home was initially exciting. No commuting, being in the comfort of my own space, it sounded amazing. But soon, the boundaries between my work life and personal life began to fade. My home was my office, and my office was my home. I found myself answering Slack messages on the couch and at dinner time and checking email campaign reports late into the night.The expectation to almost always be online to answer questions for teammates that work in different time zones was real. Reflecting back, my health took a hit, my personal relationships suffered and my anxiety grew.Some days were always more stressful than others, but I think aside from learning to build boundaries and deleting Slack on my phone, one of my coping mechanisms and what inspired my ability to separate work from home was the ability to disconnect, mainly through fiction.DefinitionsI should’ve started with this disclaimer, I’m not a psychologist or a counselor. I do work for a startup conquering addiction that employs a large group of clinicians and counselors, but I’m not an expert. I’m not saying, watching movies and reading books and ignoring your life responsibilities is the key to managing stress. It’s worth unpacking the positive and negative lights of escapism. Let’s start with defining the concept of escapism. What is escapism?The common definition of escapism is a psychological concept where a person distances themselves from the realities of life, often as a coping mechanism to alleviate stress. This disengagement from real

What’s up folks, today we’re joined by Bobby Tichy, he’s Co-Founder and Chief Solutions Officer at Stitch. Bobby’s a highly respected Martech veteran having spent over a decade working in technical roles for some of the biggest names in martech:He spent a combined 6.5 years working on the Professional services teams at arguably 2 of the most well known companies in martech, Salesforce and Marketo where he was able to lead and support countless implementation projects for some of the biggest brands in the world.At Salesforce he focused on Marketing Cloud technical and functional architecture. At Marketo he focused on project and program management.In 2016, he left the in-house world and jumped to the agency side of martech working at Lev (a premier Salesforce consultancy) for 6+ years where he focused on Marketing and Enterprise architecture solutions. He also co-founded the In the Clouds Podcast, a show about Salesforce Marketing Cloud.Last year, after Lev was acquired by Cognizant, he co-founded Stitch leading their solutions team. Stitch is a new martech consultancy that specializes in Segment and Braze tech stacks.Bobby’s an expert in all things marketing technology architecture, customer data platforms, customer journeys and Dachshund dogs as the proud dog dad of 3. Bobby, welcome to the show, pumped to chat today.In-house vs agencyI’d love to start by getting your take on agency vs in-house, pros and cons and maybe get the inside scoop on going from SF to arch-nemesis Marketo a few years ago?I think the, the easiest way to think about agency versus in-house is when I was at Salesforce and Marketo, you’re really just focused on the specific problem as it relates to the technology. So that might be implementing, you know, Salesforce, Marketing Cloud or implementing Marketo for a particular customer. But when we’re on the consulting side or the consultancy side, you’re really more focused on that customer. So what problem are we trying to solve? It’s much more about business problems and outcomes than it is technology problems and outcomes.That’s probably the best way to think about it. Or at least the the biggest delineation that I’ve seen over the years, which the consulting side is so much more fun and so much more complex. It has each has its own challenges.On the SF to Marketo switch, I think I I was so naive at that point I had no clue that it was like moving to their arch nemesis. Now it would be like going from Braze to Iterable or you know something along those lines. And it was interesting because I even remember at the time, once I got to Marketo, there were all these kind of rumblings. You never know if they were founded or not. But you know when Exact Target got acquired by Salesforce, was it, you know, who are the other bidders? And I don’t know if you ever listened to the Acquired Podcast, but there’s an episode of Acquired on Exact Target and Scott Dorsey goes through like that whole process. Which is pretty neat. And then he mentions the SEC filings, they actually have to disclose, they don’t disclose the actual companies, but you can kind of deduce who the other bidders were. It’s kind of neat to go through.But anyway when I got to Marketo, there was like all this conversation about Salesforce because the Salesforce and Marketo integration (at the time) was market leading as far as market automation platforms were concerned and the Exact Target and Salesforce integration was not all that great at the time. Now obviously that’s totally flipped, but at the time it was interesting because I remember my first two projects on Marketo and Salesforce, I would kind of throw Exact Target under the bus a little bit with the horrible integration they had with Salesforce even though they were part of the same company. But I I had no idea to your point kind of like the political elements of my switch at the time.Switching platform expertise, from SFMC to Marketo to BrazeSo you went from SFMC to Marketo before going back to a SFMC focused agency but now you’ve left both platforms and at Stitch you guys focus on Segment + Braze. Did you play around with Braze before joining?(At Lev) we had a couple of large enterprise media entertainment customers that were leveraging both Salesforce Marketing Cloud and Braze and so they would use SFMC for journey orchestration and e-mail and then Braze for mobile because it’s the mobile capabilities were so much better. The UI is a little bit better too, especially for marketers. And so that was our first introduction to that platform and then as as we were leaving Lev and trying to figure out what we were going to do next.Everyone that we talked to, people from Movable Inc, people from Salesforce, you know sales leaders there and other people in the Martech ecosystem, all of them were saying like Braze was really where a lot of the marketers were going because it combined a lot of what we all loved about Martech, which was the advanced use cases, the power of the dat

What’s up everyone,If you haven’t checked out our previous 3 episodes in our AI series you might want to before this episode, we give you a lot of context around some of the events that have happened and will shape the conversation today.So basicallyHow fast could AI change or replace marketing jobs?How marketers can stay informed and become AI fluentExploring new paths to future-proof your marketing career in the age of AIToday we’re diving into specific tools… there’s a lot of noise out there right now.What tools you should play around withIn TMW #107 | ChatGPT and the artificial marketer, Juan Mendoza explains that“...generative AI tools are already everywhere. From text generation to video and audio production, to image creation, there’s a thriving industry of technologies taking small slices out of our creative talents, packaging them up, and selling them as a SaaS product on a recurring revenue model. If you’re wanting to stay relevant five years from now in the marketing technology industry, you’re probably going to have to learn some of these platforms. In 2010 we used to say: “there’s an app for that”. In 2023, we will be saying: “there’s an AI for that.””OutlineHere are some of the topics for this third AI episode:Key AI technology definitions and how to differentiate real AI tools vs all the noise out thereDeep dive into toolsContent marketing toolsEmail and marketing automation toolsPredictive analytics toolsText to presentation and pitch deck tools3D animation tools for product marketersSales and outreach toolsText to website creator toolsAd and social creative toolsAutoGPT and AI agentsAnd a bunch of other tools like conversational search engines, 1-1 convos with celebrities and an even longer list of honorable mentions Here’s today’s main takeaway:The key to future proofing your marketing career with the ever changing AI landscape is to stay curious, get your hands dirty and experiment fearlessly: Fill out some forms, spin up free trials, get on wait lists, and give new AI tools a chance. It's only by actually getting your hands dirty that you'll discover which tools truly work for you and which are just part of the ever growing sea of gimmicky AI tools.Definition of tech termsI’ll be using some of these terms throughout my analysis of some of these tools so here’s a primer explaining the three most common AI technologies used for marketing applications: MLMachine Learning): ML is a way to teach computers to learn by themselves, without having to be programmed for every task. They learn from examples and data patterns to make predictions or decisions. Applications include segmentation, predictive analytics and propensity models. NLPNatural Language Processing: NLP is a subset of ML and focuses on enabling computers to understand, interpret, and generate human language. Includes sentiment analysis, machine translation, named entity recognition, text summarization, and more. NLP techniques usually helps computers understand and communicate with humans using everyday language. GNNGraph Neural Network: GNN also a subset of ML is a type of neural network that aims to handle graph-structured data, data organized like a network or web of connected points. Applications include analyzing relationships between different things like users in a social network or users in your database or recommending additional products based on past purchase history. Real AI vs noisePart of the reason AI gets a really bad rep, especially in martech, is that anything that’s built on if statements or simple Javascript logic gets called AI. There’s still plenty of AI startups that shout about their proprietary AI when it’s probably just a few decision trees and a few interns running spreadsheets.Now though, you have an even bigger bucket of noise that’s essentially “slight tweak on Chat-GPT”. Developing AI that was comparable to human performance was a challenging feat prior to GPT's arrival. To achieve this level of sophistication, a company would have had to:make a substantial investment, amounting to millions of dollarsdeveloping its own algorithmsperforming extensive data cleanupBut it’s so easy now because GPT is so good out of the box. Allen Cheng puts it simply. Starting a new AI venture can be achieved by simply assembling a few elements: a product developed on GPT-4's user-friendly APIa website, and a marketing campaign. This is why we’re seeing hundreds of AI tolls pop up every week.A lot of these GPT-based products are pretty much indistinguishable from one another. Maybe a handful have a significant advantage over others but most are gimmicky. And over the next few months, every tool is going to be integrating ChatGPT features inside their products in the hopes of making it stickier.The threat of GPT-nThe part that I find trickiest and the most discouraging about building anything on top of GPT is that any progress you make on fine tuning GPT-4 will totally be wiped out by GPT-5 or GPT-n… Kind of like we talked

What’s up folks. This is part 3 of our deep dive into AI impacts on marketing jobs.I want to start off by apologizing that this episode might be a bit rusty, I’m attempting to record this while fully sleep deprived thanks to a 1 week old newborn at home haha Our daughter arrived nice and early and, yeah it’s been a wild change in sleeping patterns haha.In our first episode we introduced the topic and covered how fast AI could replace marketing jobs and what the transition might look like. In episode 2 we covered ways marketers can stay up to date with the latest advancements in AI. Next up, 3. Practical changes and new areas marketers can invest in (today)4. Find the top AI marketing tools and filter out the noiseHere’s today’s main takeaway: AI is already disrupting martech but in 5-10 years our jobs are likely going to look very different. Now is the time to figure out if you need to make changes to your current area of speciality in order to future proof your career. Ask yourself if you should double down on additional areas like data and API services, getting closer to product and customers or starting to learn about ethics and data privacy.Today we’ll help you reflect on different options to investigate as you navigate through this future landscape and what job titles of the future might be in store for marketers.Here’s a quick outline of some of the new marketing areas to potentially focus on that might future proof your career if AI becomes as big as some are predictingOutlineAI tech implementation, find ways to use AI and automate tasksData and API services, exposing data from your business to let AI assistants leverage themGetting closer to product and customers, deeply understanding customers is always going to be something hard for AI to replicateCopywriting, generative AI is great at creating the familiar but can’t yet create the newEthics, privacy and responsibility, AI is really bad at displaying the POVs of underrepresented groupsAnd a look into the future at emerging tech, trying to guess some future job titles for marketersI have to admit, what spurred this whole AI series and what led to my diving into the rabbit hole was a genuine fear, or at least serious contemplation about whether I needed to focus on new marketing areas or pivot in some case.New marketing areas to focus onYeah it’s a totally valid question and probably something a lot of marketers are wondering. Phil you had a great episode previously (part 2) that covered how we can stay informed… let’s chat about what you can do practically about your current situation or at least start thinking about career transition strategies. Some of you listening or reading today are probably already in a really nice spot. Our podcast mission is to future proof the humans behind the tech and if you’re already working with marketing tech you’re in a really nice position to continue the shift towards additional AI and automation. We talked a bit about this in the first part of our series – but I think that AI developments represent that same type of shift that we’ve seen in the past. The change always seems bigger when you look back historically, but living through these developments are step functions not quantum leaps.Still – it bears repeating – the pace of change in AI is far faster than other emerging tech we’ve seen in the past. I think while the tech is moving blazingly fast, there is already considerable pressure to throttle development. One thing that is highlighted in that Goldman Sachs fear report about Millions of jobs being replaced by AI is that despite losing millions of jobs, AI may also mean new jobs and a productivity boom.The report cited that 60% of workers are in occupations that did not exist 80 years ago. Think about aht for a second. I think that all you have to do to see how fast things are going is to pay attention to the developments coming out of ChatGPT. I’ve used it a bit and it’s mind blowing what you can do with it. I asked it to design a workout plan for me based on my age and fitness factors. I specifically told it that I couldn’t be sore or too tired while I ramped up - I chase 4 young kids at home, after all. The plan it designed is solid.I think the bigger factor isn’t how to apply this tech, it’s how quickly will use cases become common place. It’s easy to think of an AI reading all your docs and chat logs and then operating as a support chatbot – but how fast are teams going to move on this type of work? What type of engineering is required by the existing team to get this in place? Why do we assume they’ll automatically lose their jobs? Is it possible the extra efficiency can free up time to be spent on higher order tasks? Have you met a support team that isn’t overrun with requests and also have big ideas on how to improve customer success? There’s a process to tech adoption, and I think it has as much to do with confidence in the tools, concerns around ethics/privacy, and actually figuring out how to imp

What’s up folks. This is part 2 of our deep dive into AI impacts on marketing jobs.In our last episode we introduced the topic and covered how fast AI could replace marketing jobs and what the transition might look like. It's not like our jobs are gonna vanish overnight, but the shift is happening faster than many of us realize. AI's no longer just a loosely backed buzzword; it's doing things today that we used to think were impossible. So, as marketers, we've gotta take this tech seriously.Next up, 2. Staying informed and keeping up with changes (today)3. Practical ways marketers can adapt for the AI-driven economy4. Find the top AI marketing tools and filter out the noiseOutlineHere are some of the topics for this second episode:Staying informed, who to follow, courses to check outIn person events and networkingExploring new sources of incomeHere’s today’s main takeaway: The impact of AI on the job market is difficult to predict in 5 years let alone 10. The only way to future proof your career and position yourself to thrive in an increasingly AI-driven economy is by staying informed and developing new skills. We’re going to double down on some of these in today’s episode.Commentary/question on shiny object syndrome vs being an early adopter.As a marketer, it’s our job to stay modern - it’s true of any job, but marketing is on the next levelWe self propel change and create our own reasons to change things up. We suffer a bit from herd mentality as well – I think we tend to rush the new trend, be it TikTok or ChatGPT and choose saturation instead of considerationI don’t think the value of being an early adopter is being “first;” rather, it’s giving yourself time to immerse yourself and begin to master the topicTo learn a topic, you simply can’t read 5 blog posts and master it; I firmly believe you need to get hands-on experienceShiny object - Try to make a buck, dispose of poor performer, invest in top performers; easily distracted by next objectEarly adopter - thoughtful approach to seeing new technology as part of wider trend; has playbook or process for learning and evaluating new tech, How marketers can stay informed and become AI fluentStaying up-to-date on the latest developments in AI and AGI is probably the top thing you can do as a marketer. Understanding capabilities as they are released or even pre-released. This allows you to get a leg up on others and see the potential impact on your company, industry and even job market as a whole. My goals would be to understand how AI works, its potential, and limitations. Most marketers don’t have a great grasp on this at all. Invest in learning about AI, ML, deep learning, and related tech. Ultimately try to arm yourself with knowledge to position yourself as a marketing expert in leveraging AI tools to drive revenue.I think you and are very similar in our approach to this: learn from smart people, and then jump in and experiment and get hands-on experience. Phil, your research process is always fire: who are the smart people you’re learning from? People and blogs to followThere’s waaay smarter people that are tracking this stuff. Not all of these have a marketing lens but they often cover marketing aspects. These are my favorite folks to follow.We’ll have links to all of their twitter accounts and their newsletters or podcasts in our show notes. Ed Gilhttps://twitter.com/eladgil https://blog.eladgil.com/ Ed is an awesome follow on Twitter, he’s an investor and advisor in some of the most well known tech companies like Airbnb, Coinbase, Instacart, OpenDoor, Pinterest, Square, Stripe and others. He worked at Google and Twitter after his company Mixer Labs was acquired. Aside from AI he’s highly in touch with everything tech and startups. He doesn’t post super often but he has a solid blog and he’s the co-host of No Priors podcast that features long form chats with the leading engineers, researchers and founders in AI. Ben Tossell (tuh-sell)https://twitter.com/bentossellhttps://bensbites.co/ Ben’s the Founder and CEO of Makerpad, one of the top sites to learn and work on no-code tools. He currently works at Zapier, focusing on AI after they acquired Makerpad last year. Before that he led Community at Product Hunt and later AngelList when they acquired Product Hunt in 2016. He runs one of the most popular AI newsletters called Ben’s Bites, it’s easily been my favorite daily way to stay up-to-date with the latest AI happenings. Sarah Guohttps://twitter.com/saranormous https://linktr.ee/nopriors Sarah’s a startup investor and the founder of Conviction, an early-stage VC firm specialized in AI startups. She made waves in SF during her time at Greylock, a top VC firm in the Valley, where she became their youngest general partner. She’s the other co-host of No Priors podcast alongside Ed Gil. She has an extensive network, and her close association with Andrew Ng (ing), the co-founder and leader of Google Brain, persuaded her that a "deep learning revolution was c

What’s up JT, good to chat again. When you aren’t podcasting or consulting, what are you reading or listening to these days?Yeah I’ve been BUSY. Bobiverse books, of course but also lots of Mario with my kids – haha, my downtime totally spent on guilty pleasures.Haha yeah you had a head start on Bobiverse but I overlapped you… that’s probably going to change soon for me… I don’t think I’ve announced this on the cast yet but my wife and I are on baby watch, first born arriving at any second now which s why we need to record a few episodes hahaI’ve actually been getting back into podcasts lately. Maybe I’ll plug a few of my favorites ahead of our next episodes. I’ve really been digging Making Sense of Martech lately. Juan Mendoza is the guy behind the podcast, he’s a friend of the show and he’s been doubling down on it, pumping out weekly episodes. If you want to go deep on some technical topics, in episode 37 he had the CEO of Hightouch Data on and he debates the merits of reverse ETL and they really unpack CDPs. Check it out.In the non marketing podcast world I’ve been taking a dive into the world of AI. No, not fluffy my top 10 ChatGPT prompts and buy my course type of content, way darker shit, like will marketing be replaced by AI in 10 or 20 years… sooner? My buddy Alex recommended The Ezra Klein Show. The episode is titled Freaked Out? We Really Can Prepare for A.I. On the show he has Kelsey Piper, a senior writer at Vox. She basically spends her time writing and being ahead of the curve covering advanced A.I.In that episode she says something like: “The AI community believes that we are 5-10 years away from systems that can do any job you can do remotely. Anything you can do on your computer.”Recently Goldman Sachs released a report saying AI could replace the equivalent of 300 million jobs. A day later Elon Musk, Andrew Yang, Wozniak and several other tech leaders wrote an open letter urging a pause in AI development, citing profound risks. So I went down a rabbit hole and it really prompted the next 4 episodesHow fast could AI change or replace marketing jobs?How marketers can stay informed and become AI fluentNavigating through AI in your marketing careerFind the top AI marketing tools and filter out the noiseSo basically1. How soon and how significantly will this impact my job2. How do I keep up with changes?3. Is it possible to adapt? How can I future-proof myself?4. How can I start right freaking now?!?Today we’re going to be starting with setting the scene and covering how fast shit is changing right now. Here are some of the topics for this first episode:AI isn’t new, especially for enterprise companies with lots of dataBut unlocking some of the potential for startups is going to be hugeWill all these advancements just make marketers better and more efficient?or will it actually push founders to go to market without a marketerMarketing will have massive changes because we primarily rely on the ability to understand and apply existing rules and processesWhat does ChatGPT have to say about all this?What if AI is one day actually able to replicate human creativity and emotional intelligence?We’ll talk about potential mass unemployment but the more likelihood of new job opportunitiesHow fast AI has disrupted other jobs alreadyHow AI might simply only ever replace the shitty parts of marketingHere’s today’s main takeaway: It's not like our jobs are gonna vanish overnight, but the shift is happening faster than many of us realize. AI's no longer just a loosely backed buzzword; it's doing things today that we used to think were impossible. So, as marketers, we've gotta take this tech seriously.Instead of asking if AI's gonna replace our roles in marketing, we should be talking about how quickly it could happen and what it'll look like if it does.A bunch of really smart marketers (and non marketers) out there are saying we need to hit the panic button. They're predicting that in just 5 to 10 years, we'll see a massive change affecting all sorts of remote jobs. Times are wild right now. So, fellow humans of martech, let's keep our eyes on the future and continuously evolve and adapt.JT I don’t want this episode to be fear mongering… I’d actually love to chat with people that are way smarter than us about AI and get both sides of the coin, those who believe AI could have a fundamental impact on marketing jobs and that AI is as important of a paradigm shift as the Internet was… people like Darmesh Shah, like Scott Brinker, and those who believe it will never completely happen and are still on the AI-skeptic side of things like Rand FishkinI think it's ok to be a bit uncertain or even afraid of what the future may hold with this new technology.As humans, we face an interesting dilemma -- we are capable of using and creating technology that don't fully comprehend ourselves. Our society is built on layers of abstractions -- you don't need to know how water purification or plumbing works to turn on your tap an

What’s up everyone today we’re talking about marketing roadmaps. Rodmaps are usually more common with tech product teams and they are also very common in the project management world. It’s about giving your team the big picture and helping everyone align on project goals. Anyone who’s been in marketing knows that this is something super useful that can be applied to this practice as well.Key takeaway: While it doesn’t always have to be set in stone, a roadmap helps your team stay accountable to certain tasks and deliverables but it’s also a focus weapon that arms you with the ability to say no to new requests. You work on priorities and capacity, you share it with other departments for feedback and it becomes marching orders. DefinitionOkay so how would you define a roadmap?Definition: A team roadmap is a visual overview showing what projects and tasks will be worked on and when.It usually includes objectives, milestones/tasks, deliverables, resources, and a timeline.A roadmap can serve as a reliable reference guide to help keep the team on track and share with other stakeholders your key projects and objectives. So how do you bring this to life?So I like to do this quarterly. Usually I have a backlog list of projects. This is made up of ideas and things that have popped up over time that we want to get to eventually. From the backlog, you want to try and assign a priority. This exercise can be wildly complex but it can be a simple ICE exercise (Impact, confidence, effort).One keep component as you score projects is company goals and OKRs. Defining the business goals and objectives that the marketing team will work to support. This is usually trickled down in some capacity from management. It might include goals related to increasing brand awareness, generating leads, or improving customer satisfaction.Then you look at capacity, how many hours of work does your team have this quarter, subtract meeting time and PTO. One thing I like to do here is keep a buffer of 15% time for unexpected urgent tasks that pop up.Then you can decide what stays in the backlog and what gets prioritized for the upcoming quarter.There’s a bunch of different tools you can use for roadmapping, whether it’s Jira, Asana, Trello, Notion or others, they all boil down to very similar functions.Start with a list of core projectsBreak up the projects into sub tasks and milestonesAssign task owners and deadlinesDescribe each task and highlight dependenciesToolsWhat are the best tools to developing a timeline for the initiatives and activities, including key milestones and deliverables.There are many different tools that organizations can use to develop a timeline for their marketing initiatives and activities, including key milestones and deliverables. Some common examples include:Project management software, such as Notion, Asana, Trello, or Microsoft Project, which can be used to create a visual representation of the timeline, track progress, and manage resources.Collaboration tools, such as Slack, Google Hangouts, or Microsoft Teams, which can be used to communicate with team members, share information, and collaborate on tasks.Gantt charts, which are graphical representations of the tasks and dependencies within a project. Gantt charts can be used to visualize the timeline, identify potential conflicts or bottlenecks, and adjust the schedule as needed.Spreadsheet software, such as Microsoft Excel or Google Sheets, which can be used to create a tabular representation of the timeline, track progress, and perform calculations.Overall, the best tools for developing a timeline will depend on the specific needs and preferences of the organization. By using a combination of different tools, organizations can create a comprehensive and effective timeline that helps them plan and execute their marketing initiatives and activities.What’s your fav tool?Trello never fails. But I’ve become a big fan of Notion.Yes, Notion can be used for project management and roadmaps. It’s usually thought of as a company wiki or a place to write memos, but it’s so much more… and if it can also help you manage your projects… imagine combining all of that in one place.Many teams haveA company docs or wiki like ConfluenceThey have a project management tool like Asana or JiraAnd then they have a bunch of scattered docs in the form of google sheets, google docs, foldersThat usually includes a bunch of emails alsoBut imagine if you could have just 1 tool to rule all of these. At my startup we use Notion pretty heavily. Not every does this to a T, we do have some stragglers, but imagine a world whereCompany docs and memos are no longer emails or a various panoply of google docsProjects are managed in one spot and reference things in the same tool, no need for separate logins or extra credentialsAll in Notion.Notion is a versatile and customizable productivity tool.I use it personally but also at work, like I mentioned.But because of its versatility, Notion sometimes gets

What’s up everyone? Today is a bit of a follow-up on the previous episode about building dashboards, check that one out first if you haven’t already.Today we’re taking this a step further and talking about data models and the limits of building dashboards.Here’s a typical stance on dashboard design:It is best to focus on the ideal scenario, and worry about the practicalities of implementation later, Or “let the ops team worry about that” as they call it. Haha yeah… This approach may seem appealing at first, as it allows designers to imagine and create without constraints. However, as a marketing operations person, I’m not a fan of this.Here’s today’s main takeaway: I believe that understanding how a dashboard is powered, and having a sense of what is possible and what is not, is a crucial differentiator.Too often, I have seen dashboard projects built in a vacuum, disconnected from the reality of the data and the systems that support them. In these cases, valuable time and resources are wasted building an idealistic dashboard that cannot be implemented or used effectively.Today we’re going to be breaking down how you can level up your knowledge about data models or the capabilities and limitations of the data and the systems that support the dashboard, and designing solutions that are feasible and effective. By understanding these constraints, designers and marketers can create dashboards that are not only beautiful and engaging, but also practical and useful.I feel like this topic could get hairy pretty fast, so let's break down some definitions for the listeners. Da hell is a data model, let’s start there.What’s a data model?Data modeling is a way to organize and structure data from different sources in a consistent and useful way. It helps to make data more accessible and organized, so it can be easily analyzed and interpreted.Gimme a non marketing example, how would you explain this to your mom?Example: A simple example of a data model is a phone directory. The data model for a phone directory would include information such as the names and contact information of individuals, as well as the relationships between them (e.g. family members, colleagues, friends). By organizing this information in a consistent and structured way, the phone directory can be used to easily look up and contact individuals. This data model helps to make the information more accessible and useful.Okay what about a marketing example, that was too simple.I’ll go with my bread and butter, Email marketing example: One example of a data model for email marketing might include information about the email campaigns that have been sent to different segments of your audience. This data model might include details such as the subject lines, Type of content, Subject line keywordsMain call-to-action You would also have the results of the campaignsopen rates, click-through rates, conversion ratesBy organizing and structuring this information in a consistent and meaningful way, the data model can help the email marketing team track the performance of their campaigns and to identify areas for improvement. For example, the data model might show that certain subject lines or content types don’t generate as many opens as some emails but they perform better at driving clicks and conversions, and the email marketing team can use this information to optimize their future campaigns. So why should marketers care about this? It’s to prevent shiny object syndrome and understanding where the numbers are coming from but also give you the ability to customize your dashboard.Exactly. A data model is the first step in allowing you to have a dynamic/interactive dashboard. Describe an interactive dashboard in simple termsDescribe an interactive dashboard in simple terms for the listeners. It’s being able to interact with the charts and elements to analyze different parts of your dashboard, for example; filtering certain elements and changing date ranges. This is what sets them apart from reports. For me, I see it as a personal assistant of sorts. An interactive dashboard allows you to easily filter, slice, and drill down into the data, revealing insights and patterns that might otherwise be hidden. Unlike a static dashboard or report, which shows the same view for everyone, an interactive dashboard lets different users explore the data in their own unique ways.What’s a simple example that most folks would understand?Imagine a sales manager who needs to understand the performance of her team across different regions and product lines. With a static dashboard or report, she would see the same view for everyone, with no ability to filter or drill down into the data. But with an interactive dashboard, she can easily select the regions, the individual reps and product lines that she is interested in, and see the data that is most relevant to her. She can even save her custom views, and share them with her team, so they can all see the data in the way that is most us

What’s up everyone, today we’re taking a dive into the world of dashboard building.Startups may not always have the luxury of having a dedicated data analyst on staff, which means marketers may need to get more hands-on with data. Yeah I haven’t had the data analyst luxury in my career very often! In episode 38, we discussed marketing reporting and how you can use key reports to help highlight impact and find new opportunities. But we’re not talking about reports here right?That’s right, dashboards aren’t reports. They are living breathing snapshots of key areas you want to keep an eye on in your business.Yeah I think a lot of people don’t make that distinction and just assume reports = dashboards = chart. Where should marketers be starting? With charts?Scatter plots, bar charts, pie charts, maps, funnels, box plots… There’s a bunch of different chart types and visualizations at your disposal when you're designing your dashboard, but this isn’t where you should start.Here’s today’s main takeaway: When designing a dashboard, it's important to focus on the decisions you want to make, rather than just the metrics you want to track. Before building your dashboard, consider your audience and bring together the right people to answer key questions. This will help you create a prototype of your first version.Dashboard projects are close to both of our hearts. Both having worked for Klipfolio (a dashboard SaaS for startups and SMBs), we’ve spent a fair amount of time researching and writing about the internal dashboard building process.There’s obviously a critical collaboration piece to this that would be an initial starting point for anyone taking on a dashboard project. Yeah one thing we always said about building good dashboards is that it takes a village.So Phil, you’ve actually led the charge in this area at a few startups. What are some of the questions you should be asking as a marketer to get started?Questions before buildingThe first questions to tackle as a team are: What metrics would you look at on a regular basis to measure performance and determine areas for growth? What metrics do you care about the most?So ultimately, this depends entirely on your team goals and the top priority metrics we’ve selected as a group. These goals further inform how to prioritize views and metrics in our dashboard. What does this group of stakeholders look like when you’re starting to build things?Stakeholder groups:Main viewers: Who will be digesting or regularly looking at the dashboardMarketing Ops/Data Ops: What resources to you have to help you build the dashboardDesigner and point person: Who’s scoping out the dashboard and driving project management as well as designing the end dashboardAdmittedly, in startup land, you’ll likely be wearing all three hats. I know I have. But in bigger teams, you’re working with a lot more moving pieces. Yeah I’ve gotten a taste of both of these. Small teams and bigger teams. There’s advantages to both. But I think regardless, it’s important to get a lay of the land first.Yeah it might be helpful to walk through an example. You’ve been pretty deep in lifecycle marketing in your career. Maybe give us a real life example wearing a lifecycle hat. So Phil, you’re Director of lifecycle and you’re tasked with building out a lifecycle dashboard.Here’s a list of example questions to ask yourself and stakeholders Yeah I like the lifecycle example actually. It’s broad enough to touch most parts of marketing so I can use it as goal posts as we unpack some of this stuff.Your goal with these questions is to figure out what metrics we care about the most, getting a benchmark and establishing a goal for each of these metrics and how they have been trending over time.Current segment/vertical data we get on signups, are there specific segments we know we want to grow?Current lead scoring on signup events, are we scoring leads based on email and domain and any other data we might be collecting?What’s the current activation rates of signups after the first email, what’s our deliverability rate on the first email to signups?Are there specific lifecycle status labels that we are currently using, ie Content lead/subscriber > Signup > Active/published site > Upgraded. Do we currently have micro stages/do we care about this detail, ie in between signup and active we might have, installed theme, created a page and created a menu.Do we currently have the ability to attribute multi touch events for email engagements? Meaning, if a signup opens a pricing email on day 4 and they click the plans link and they buy 2 hours later, is that email getting $%?With all of this information on hand, or at least identifying areas of focus and priority metrics, you can then start scoping out the first prototype of the dashboard, intentionally with too much information, with the hopes of cutting things out in following iterations. Exactly. Next we can talk about metrics that flow in from those questions. What metrics

Universal Analytics is sunsetting in July 2023, and its replacement, Google Analytics 4, isn’t exactly getting a warm reception. For digital marketers, SEOs, analysts, and basically anyone else who got used to GA3 over the past decade, it’s a bitter pill to swallow.Ok, I’ll confess: I’ve been a bit further behind on Google Analytics 4 than I wanted. Like many marketers, I struggle to balance martech innovation against the reality of my day-to-day life. I admit I had been procrastinating on learning GA4, but no more.I’ve spent the last few months going as deep as I can on GA4 and, by extension Google Tag Manager. I’m not going to sit here and tell you that GA4 is Google’s gift to digital marketing – I think it’s still an immature platform.I am going to tell you GA4 is getting a much worse rap that it deserves precisely because so many marketers have been deep in GA3/UA for so long. Changing habits is tough, and GA4 makes it more challenging because of a new interface, not too mention a completely different approach to web analytics. No big deal - you can learn all this in a Sunday afternoon, right?Yeah, that’s going to be tough.Today I’m going to give a procrastinator’s guide to GA4. If you’re expecting me to complain about GA3, this episode isn’t for you. We’ll mourn the loss of GA3, briefly, but then move on to making the most of this situation. I don’t think GA4 is all bad – actually, GA4 is pretty slick and I think if it weren’t for the contrast to its predecessor, many folks would be pretty happy with GA4. – – – Alright JT, it’s great to be back behind the mic. We’re starting off with a fun one here. I’ll admit I’ve been out of touch with top of funnel reporting and analytics for the last couple years so I’m excited to learn about GA4. There’s rightfully been a lot of noise since its release in October 2020… maybe we can start there actually, the Google decision. Google has basically said that they are making the switch from Universal Analytics (UA) to Google Analytics 4 (GA4) in order to provide users with “more advanced tracking for digital marketers” But aside from new features like automated events, cross-device reporting and BQ support, there’s a lot more behind the decision to make the switch.Why is Google making the switch from UA to GA4?Needs attribution: Lawsuits in EU where UA used as evidencePrivacy regulationsEnd of 3rd party cookies, rise of first party cookiesSingle-page applicationsEvent-based measurementSo October 14, 2020: This was the date when Google officially announced GA4 and began rolling it out to users. What dates should marketers be aware about when it comes to the “forced switch from UA?”What are the important dates and why are they importantJuly 1, 2023, data collection stops. 6 months later, you won’t be able to access your dataYou’ve got 6 months to move to GA4 or another web analytics solution or you’ll be flying blind… You need a solution for your historic data (excel, bigquery, or API)Sounds like it’s time to put down that Netflix remote, grab a cup of coffee, and dive into the exciting world of GA4!It seems like such a big hurdle… JT, how can marketers start to learn GA4?How do I learn GA4There’s going to be a few layers to learning GA4. Let’s break it out into 2 roles:Web Developer, implementationDigital marketer or web analystFor web developers or implementers, GA4 can be installed directly on your website by inserting the code directly onto each page. This isn’t new. I think what is new is that GA4 is much more closely tied with Google Tag Manager. It is absolutely the recommended way to install and configure GA4. There’s a whole episode or series about Google Tag Manager we could do, but the short of it is that GTM gives you a huge toolset to do tons of cool stuff: event tracking, sending additional data through dataLayer, and modifying your implementation without having to directly modify your website.If you’re not already using GTM, GA4 should push you to start using it.For digital marketers and analysts, the task is about getting used to the new interface, migrating configuration settings from GA3, and making a habit of pulling reports from GA4. The big hurdle here is matching up the data from both tools – because I’ve never actually seen both tools give the same number.I think this is what people are most unprepared for: the new reporting paradigm and definitions. Things like users have modified definitions, in no small part because GA4 is better at tracking individual users and corrects known errors in GA3. However, whenever a disparity in the numbers arise, much hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth ensues…So getting it installed and playing around with new features is one of the first things folks should be doing. Data history and collection is important.These new features are more powerful and are said to help you better understand and optimize your digital marketing efforts… JT, what are some of the new features that excite you the most compared to UA vs GA4?

Season 1 featured our first 50 episodes, 20 of which were guest episodes. In today’s episode we’re going to recap our key takeaways from each guest episode in season 1.Our first guest episode featured Lauren Sanborn, Director of RevOps at CallRail. She recently moved over to DataRobot, an AI cloud platform for Data Scientists. Aside from leaving us with several marketing and sales alignment tips, my favorite takeaway from Lauren was to not be so hard on yourself if you don’t know what you don’t want to do (for work). Her advice was to get out there and try different things so you can start to mark off what you don’t like. Eventually you’ll find something that you love.”Our next guest in episode 07 featured one of our most senior and perhaps most accomplished guest, Brian Leonard, former co-founder of TaskRabbit and now CEO of Grouparoo (recently acquired by Airbyte).Brian went pretty deep on the relationship with marketing and engineering and my favorite takeaway was that marketers and engineers shouldn’t think of themselves as doing completely different things inside a company. At the end of the day, both groups are there to move the needle on the business. So the best way to think of it is to come together to power the right stack.Instead of pitching to product, marketing needs this, pitch it as, the company needs this and this is how it will benefit everyone. For example, marketing attribution isn’t a marketing or a marketing ops thing. It’s a company thing.Next up was our boy Nick Donaldson in episode 10, fresh off a new consulting gig at Perkuto. Another marketer who’s moved on to another company, he’s now running Marketing Operations at Knak. Nick is wise beyond his years and my favorite takeaway from our chat with him was that the number 1 skill to succeed in marketing ops is curiosity. Early in your career Google and twitter are your best friends. There’s so many smart people that have been in your shoes and are nice enough to share those insights. Find them. Read them. Learn from them.So 10 episodes in and we already had a RevOps Director, a CEO and founder and a consultant. We also had a Professor. In episode 11 we were joined by friend of the show Jonathan Simon.This might have been controversial amongst his peers at the University but we’re happy to report he’s still in his current gig (lol). My favorite takeaway from our chat with Jonathan is that you don’t need a degree to have a successful and happy career in marketing anymore. More than anything, marketers need to be adaptable to changing tech and strive to be lifelong learners. He talked a lot about side hustles and starting something, in his course he actually gets all his students to start a blog and build something during their time there.Episode 17 featured Ottawa native Julie Beynon who leads analytics at Clearbit. Things got technical pretty fast but I think Julie did an awesome job introducing data warehousing and making it seem a lot less intimidating.My favorite takeaway was when she explained that a DWH doesn’t have row limits and isn’t limited by your laptop’s CPU. She loves a Google sheet as much as any data driven marketer, but at some point, startups need to upgrade from that clunkiness to a data warehouse solution.It’s been fun seeing the martech landscape shift from; APIs for everything and we integrate with all your tools to – we build on top of your data warehouse or we connect natively to Big Query.Keeping to the data theme, we had Steffen Heddebrandt in episode 19. Still almost a year later he’s trashing Google Analytics on LinkedIn (lol). He’s the co-founder of Dreamdata, an attribution solution for B2B startups and SMBs.Attribution still gets a bad rep, we heard Corey trash it in season 2, but Steffen has solved big pieces of this puzzle at his startup. My favorite takeaway from our convo was when he declared that when it comes to revenue attribution, GA is basically close to useless for B2B companies. Multi touch attribution software does sound like magic when you’ve tried to orchestrate it yourself, but give Dreamdata a spin if you’re still skeptical about it.Episode 25 featured Naomi Liu, Director of Global Marketing Ops at EFI. Naomi spends some of her time mentoring future marketing ops leaders and was hiring for an entry level marketer on her team at the time so we centered our conversation around how to ace your first marketing job.My favorite takeaway was when Naomi said that new marketers should be asking lots of questions. Be that annoying kid in the back seat asking all of the questions.Episode 27 featured friend of the show and local Ottawa social media maven Erin Blaskie. She recently made the switch from leading marketing at Fellow to go back to freelancing as a fractional CMO.My favorite takeaway was when we asked her how marketers should choose between the freelance route and working in house. She thinks everyone should try both. Throw out everyone else’s definition of success and make your own by tryin

Hey folks, today we’re joined by Ramli John, one of my favorite marketers and someone I’ve admired and followed on Twitter for many years.Ramli got his start in marketing at PepsiCo as a Marketing Systems Analyst where he stayed for 4 years. After a co-founding stint Ramli moved to Toronto where started his freelancing career as a SaaS growth consultant. Along the way he also worked at a few different companies including SkyVerge which exited to GoDaddy.He also spent a few years teaching as a Marketing Instructor at big name spots like RED Academy, Centennial College and CXL Institute.He started what’s widely known as one of the top marketing podcasts on the planet, Growth Marketing Today and he’s one of the inspirations of our podcast here.He went on to join Product-Led - The leading community for PLG Pros founded by Wes Bush the famous author of Product-Led Growth. During his time there Ramli wrote his own book with Wes. It hit shelves last year: Product-Led Onboarding. I’ve read it twice and it’s been a huge career growth lever for me.Now he’s landed in what seems to be the perfect role, Director of Content at one of the top no-code onboarding tools in Appcues.Damn what a resume, what a journey, Ramli it’s an honor to have you.Questions and topicsRamli there’s a bunch of jumping off points here, I want to get into the podcast, the book and also the new gig but I’d love to start with an early career question.Early career at Pepsi and startupYou did a 180 when you went from a massive 100k + enterprise at Pepsi to then co-founding a startup. How wild was the transition and what advice would you have for listeners in big companies thinking of starting something one day?Podcast growthYou did Growth Marketing today for 4 years, I remember you posting once about how long it took you before you finally started to gain big traction. What advice do you have for people creating content with a small audience, sometimes feeling like they are speaking into the void.Teacher questionRamli, you spent a few years teaching, first at RED academy, a tech and design school, then at CXL Institute in their Demand Gen mini degree and also at Centennial College teaching a 14-week course on web analytics. What gave you the itch to spend 3 years teaching and maybe talk about the process of designing a course from scratch and all the work involved there.On writing your first bookTalk to us about writing your first book and the difference between the process of writing a course vs a book. Obviously Wes was probably a big inspiration but was this something you’ve always wanted to do and will there be more books in the future?PQL vs. PAIListeners have probably heard of PQLs by now, Product Qualified Leads or criterias that tell you someone has experienced your product or gotten some mileage in it. In your book, Product-Led Onboarding, you talk a lot about PAI, Product Adoption Indicators. Can you unpack the difference between both of those for listeners? Key onboarding milestonesMany people will dumb down onboarding to just getting users to the ‘aha moment’ like it’s something that magically unlocks onboarding challenges. You actually break down the nuance here and coin 3 different moments of value: Perception, Experience and Adoption. Can you walk us through a practical example of this?Conversational bumpersIn your book, one of my favorite analogies is your bowling analogy and how you compare onboarding emails and SMS messages as conversational bumpers to help users get their first strike. Unpack this for our listeners.Appcues, 6 months inYou’re about half a year into Appcues leading the content team, teaching SaaS teams about onboarding and product adoption. When I saw you announce that I was like damn, that’s the ultimate fit, Ramli gets to go back to SaaS and he gets to keep pumping out content about onboarding. I’d love to hear how the journey has been so far but maybe start by telling us how this opportunity came about.Happiness questionRamli, you’ve got a ton of stuff going on, you’re a podcaster, an author, a frequent speaker, a soon to be dad and you’re leading a content team at one of the coolest SaaS in the world. One question we ask all our guests is how do you remain happy and successful in your career? How do you find balance between all the things you’re working on while staying happy? ---Ramli’s linksTwitter: https://twitter.com/ramlijohn LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ramlijohn/LinkedIn posts: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ramlijohn/recent-activity/shares/ Product-Led Onboarding book: https://productled.com/book/onboarding/ Appcues: https://www.appcues.com/ Growth Marketing Today: https://growthtoday.fm/ ✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created by SLB

What’s up everyone, today we’re diving into a fascinating conversation with Nick deWilde who’s leading an exciting web3 project.Nick’s an MBA graduate of Stanford University and a self described generalist who’s spent the majority of his career working with early stage startups He was the Managing Partner at Tradecraft, an education program that helped trained people for roles at fast growing startupsThis led him to lead product marketing at Guild, a company helping frontline workers earn debt-free degrees and credentialsShortly after having a baby, Nick then made the wild decision to leave his full time job and strap on a jetpack (fueled by early crypto investments) and go independent He worked part time at a venture firm incubating early business ideas alongside consulting for a few startupsHe writes an awesome career strategy newsletter called Junglegym and launched a talent collectiveHe also co-founded Invisible College, a school owned by the students that helps people learn, build and invest in web3.Nick, thanks so much for your time, really pumped to chat.Questions and topicsThere’s so many things I’d love to unpack today. I've become a huge fan of your newsletter and your work around career strategies, but I had to prioritize some of the topics today given the time we have together. I want to get into some web3 stuff as well but maybe we can start off by taking us back to 2021 when you were on paternity leave. Paternity leave makes you do wild thingsNick you wrote about stepping off a rocketship and strapping on a jetpack into web3. You did this 3 months after having a baby. Talk to us about this decision and what impact having your first child had on making a big career change.Nick’s Notes:Having a baby does funny things to your head. It limits the number of hours you can focus on work and reminds you that your time on earth is finite.The net result was both a decrease and increase in my career ambition. I no longer wanted to do things to impress a boss to move up at a company, but at the same time, I wanted to take a swing at something exciting. That led me to independence and stating Invisible CollegeZone of geniusOne of your guiding principles when you took the leap and went independent was to work in your zone of genius. For you that meant, creative ideation, crafting + executing a strategy and collaborating with people you admire.Walk us through this concept and how others might determine what their zone of genius might be?Nick’s Notes:Zone of Genius is a concept I got from a book called the 15 commitments of conscious leadership.Living in your zone of genius means that instead of choosing to spend your time living in your zone of incompetence, or compentence or even excellence, you are spending your hours working on things that you are truly great at and love doing.To find your zone of genius think about where you feel flow state, think about the skills you get compliments on, think about the hours of the day where you create the most value for others. When it’s time to leave your jobIn episode 48 last season we talked about when to quit your job. Being successful and happy in martech requires having a true north for your career. Sometimes, that means recognizing that your current workplace isn’t helping you advance your career.You built a chart that can tell someone when it’s time to leave their job. I’d love it if you could break that down for our listeners.Nick’s Notes:So imagine plotting all your skills on a 2x2 chart. On the top are all the things you like doing, on the bottom are all the things you don’t like doing. On the right is all the stuff you’re bad at. On the left is all the stuff you’re good at.Basically you want most of your work activities to be in the top left box – stuff you’re good at and like doing. These are things that are valuable for you and your employer. This should be at least 60% of your job. In the bottom right box is all the things you’re bad at and don’t like. This should be 0% of your job because neither you or your employer are benefitting. You’ll probably have some things that you’re good at but don’t like – these are skills you’re no longer enjoying learning. It’s basically taking one for the team.To make up for that, you should also get the opportunity to try out stuff that you aren’t good at but like doing.I think a good rule of thumb is 60% stuff you’re good at and like, 20% stuff you’re bad at and like and 20% stuff you’re good at and don’t like.If that gets drastically out of ballance you’re very likely to want to leave your job.The Great Online Game“We now live in a world in which, by typing things on your keyboard, or saying things into a microphone, you can marshall resources, support, and opportunities.” You reference this article written by Packy McCormick (the author of Not boring newsletter) many times in your work. Many of the folks I follow in web3 reference it as well. Talk to us about how this article lit a fire in you.Nick’s Notes:The Great

Today on the show we have a veteran of the SaaS marketing industry, we’re joined by Kamil Rextin. After moving from Islamabad, he worked in Karachi for 2 years at P&G and completed an MBA at Waterloo University. He got his start wearing many different hats like Growth, Demand Gen and Ops at early/mid stage SaaS companies in Montreal and Toronto including Breather, Pressly, Uberflip and CrowdRiff.In 2018, he took the entrepreneurial plunge and went out on his own and started an agency called 42Agency. 4 years later, Kamil’s agency counts more than 5+ full time team members providing demand gen, marketing ops and ABM services. He’s worked with top brands like ProfitWell, Hubdoc, Sproutsocial, Knak and many more scaling B2B saaS companies.Kamil’s a father, a founder, a podcaster, a community moderator, the author of the 42/ newsletter, a neurodivergent advocate… but most of his time is shamelessly spent on memes and hot takes on Twitter. Kamil – we’re pumped to chat with you today, thanks for taking the time.Questions and topicsKamil, I’ve dived into your twitter feed over the past year and there’s a ton of hot takes that we can dive into that I’d love longer than 280 character take on. Recently you did an AMA on the B2B marketing community on Twitter, I pegged you with a bunch of questions and wanted to let you expand on some of those – maybe we can start there.Running an agency vs in-houseFor guests that have gone the in-house and agency route, I love asking the pros and cons of both of them. You’re even more fascinating because not only did you do agency… you founded an agency from scratch and have been running it for more than 4 years now. What’s the biggest upside/downside of running an agency vs being an in-house marketer? What are some of your early learnings from starting your own agency?Future-proofed marketing skillsWhether they end up in-house or at an agency, if you were mentoring a fresh marketing grad, you said that you would recommend them to specialize in the technical side of marketing. Why do you think the quantitative side of marketing is where a lot of opportunity is?Technical marketingLet’s dive into that a bit more, I think people generously add technical marketing to their skillsets. What does it mean to you? Is it anything that has to do with reporting and integrations or using martech or is it more technical than that? Like how to manipulate data and build basic models or building a Data Warehouse?Analytics and Tracking in 2022From a quantitative marketing standpoint, the tracking analytics world is weird in 2022. The industry is moving away from session based tracking and with Apple and others making a big business out of privacy and with click based tracking only getting harder with cross browser tracking, what should marketers be relying on in 2022 and beyond? Is it incremental testing? Is it statistical models or ML?Martech buyer’s guide – Wirecutter for SaaSI actually discovered you 4 years ago when I stumbled upon some of your early martech buyer’s guide work. You were building the wirecutter for SaaS, I think the first one you did was on CMS, can’t remember how favoroubly you talked about WP (lol) but what happened to this project, are you going to pick it back up one day?https://twitter.com/kamilrextin/status/1338536972608999425 Dark socialSome influencers have denigrated tracking and attribution to the point where many recommend just ignoring it and trusting your gut. One of the main culprits of this is the rise of dark social. WTF is dark social, is it just a buzzword for offline referrals like in group chats or in Slack threads and forums, and do you buy into all of this hype? How much do you hate this term?SaaS companies should be a media company narrativeSticking to some of your hot twitter takes here, there’s a few more I’m excited to dive in with you. One of them is this idea that many influencers proliferate that SaaS companies should be a media company narrative. Why do you think this is bullshit?https://twitter.com/kamilrextin/status/1362544724813430786 Personal brandsAnother of my favorite twitter takes is your disdain for personal branding. A quick look at LinkedIn and Twitter reveals that building a personal brand has been dry humped to death. Every influencer is only an expert at self promotion. There’s a total lack of receipts and actual experience. It’s all about 24/7 self aggrandizement. Twitter screenshots on LinkedIn and nothing but dolphin claps and clicks. How do you really feel about building a personal brand?--Twitter

Our guest today is Emma Paajanen (Payanen). She’s currently based in Boston but was born and raised in a small town in Finland. She got her start in marketing at a Helsinki-based agency as a Comms specialist before moving to big tech at a cyber security company called F-Secure and also spending a year in internal comms at Nokia. Emma also had a freelancing stint while she was on parental leave from F-Secure where she later went on to lead Marketing Operations. Today she’s inventing new and powerful ways to engage with customers as VP of Marketing at Aiven, an open source data startup turned Unicorn, headquartered in Helsinki with hubs all over the world like Berlin, Boston, Paris, Toronto, some employees even work in a mountainside van. Emma thanks for your time, we’re excited to chat with you today!Topics and questionsBoomerang-ingYou worked at Ellun Kanat in 2010 then went to F-Secure for 2.5 years but you decided to go back to Ellun Kanat in 2014. After a tour of duty at Nokia, you also decided to go back to F-Secure in 2016.You and Jon have this in common – Talk to us about your experience being a boomerang, working at a company, leaving and gaining experience elsewhere, and going back to that company. You did that twice.Your time at F-Secure CorpYou spent over 3 years at F-Secure, working in 4 different roles, from Senior Marketing Manager of cyber security consulting to B2B Digital and content to then becoming Marketing Director and finally Marketing Operations Director.Looking back, what were some of the things you think that helped you move up from manager to Director? Walk us through your role as Director of MOPs at an almost 2k employee software company?Marketing exec roleSo now you’re VP of marketing at Aiven. You’re on the exec team. For the listeners who think they want to be an exec one day, talk to us about the difference of the day to day at Aiven vs earlier roles at F-Secure?Growing from series BYou joined Aiven in April 2020, a few months after their series B round. How big was the marketing team when you joined and how big is the team today?Startup turned $2 billion companyWith their latest round of funding, Aiven is valued at 2+ billion. What do you think makes up the DNA of a great marketing leader at a Billion dollar company vs an up-and-coming startup.Marketing a technical product to a technical audienceAiven offers technologies as managed services, that offering includes services and sometimes technical support is an add-on. Talk to us about marketing a technical product and service to a technical audience. Open sourceAs I understand it, Aiven helps companies leverage open source data technologies on a public cloud platform. Being at WP, Open-source is close to my heart. Talk to us about the transformative period that the open-source community is currently experiencing. (Many IT vendors that originated as open-source developers are starting to place restrictions on their own software licenses—decisions that might be shortsighted and driven by profits.) Content marketing is simply marketingA few years ago, you said that in 10 yrs, #contentmarketing will just be #marketing. Walk us through what you mean by that and do you think that content marketing is at the core of a marketing strategy?Going beyond the brandEmma, you’ve said that you’re passionate about going beyond the brand. What is brand marketing to you and what does it mean to go beyond branding? The importance of marketing experience and values over just the brand name. Happiness questionYou’re a working mom, you’re an executive at a Billon+ valued company leading a big team with big goals. One question we ask all our guests is how do you remain happy and successful in your career? How do you find balance between all the things you’re working on while staying happy?--Emma Paajanen, VP of Marketing at Aiven LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmapaajanen/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/emmapaaj ✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created by SLB

What’s up everyone – today on the show we’re joined by exceptional martech mastermind: Dave Rigotti. He’s the co-founder & CEO of Inflection.io, a marketing technology startup focused on helping companies with product-led growth.Before building his own company, Dave has had a fascinating career in marketing. He got his start at Microsoft working on the Bing marketing team just as the search engine was launched. He quickly discovered his love for growth and B2B marketing.Hen then spent half a decade at Bizible, a marketing attribution platform where he worked his way up to VP of Marketing – and was part of the successful exit to MarketoHe spent a year at Marketo running ABM and demand gen before they were famously acquired by AdobeAt Adobe, Dave was Director of Account Based Marketing focused on Marketo and Magento productsLast year, while working on Inflection, he also launched the ProductLed.Marketing community which has more than 700 members and is continuing to grow.Dave, we’re excited to have you on the show – thanks for taking the time. Questions we asked Dave:What is Product-Led Marketing or Product-Led Growth?What’s the substance of PLG? What’s the difference between PLG and customer led growth?How is PLG different from all the buzzwords that hit marketing over the years?People in tech love to find new ways of avoiding calling marketing marketing. Growth hacking, conversational marketing, community led growth and now product led growth… What do you say to all the folks who claim this is just another buzzword that will fade?How is PLG different from freemium and why does this instigate such brutal Twitter wars?Traditional: generate leads and serve sales.PLG: using your product as part of your GTM. More customer centric.Jon isn’t active on social but I’ve witnessed my fair share of PLG debates on twitter.What do you say to folks who claim PLG has been around for decades (appcues, mailchimp) and that it’s simply a repackaging of freemium and free trial models… that its the old marketing playbook for the SMB segment? Where does a PLG model make sense? Can this be done with enterprise software that requires integration and onboarding support?How do you shift to a PLG strategy when you’re selling a B2B to enterprise and you require 1-2 weeks of integration and setup before end users can get a glimpse of the product in action.Do you think some B2B buyers prefer the sales led model? Sometimes I don’t always have 14-30 days to pork around in a product and figure out on my own if this will meet my company needs… sometimes I need someone to show me around and tell me how itll solve my problemsWe can skip the MQL vs PQL debate, but how do you define a PQL when your product is constantly changing?Product usage data is the holy grail of data for PLG marketers. How do you see teams forming their marketing strategy around product usage, activation, and engagement?How is PLG a whole new game?You wrote an awesome piece for OpenView Partners that PLG is a whole new game for marketers. Can you walk us through what this new game looks like? What do you say when you hear the phrase PLG is just a product that sells itself? What are marketers in PLG companies doing differently to accelerate growth and revenue? How will PLG influence marketing technology over the next 10 years? What are your big predictions? Shifting gears, Dave, you've worked at some of the most recognizable marketing technology companies on the planet. Not only have you held senior roles in those companies, but you’ve been on the inside of two major acquisitions. Give us a sense of your career story and how you ended up as a co-founder and CEO in this space?What differences do you see working at enterprises versus running a startup? What lessons do you apply to your own startup, and what things do you try to do differently?Dave, you’re a super busy guy. You’re a dad, a husband, a startup founder, and community leader – one question we ask all our guests is how do you remain happy and successful in your career? How do you find balance between all the things you’re working on while staying happy?--Dave RigottiTwitter - LinkedInProduct-led marketing communityInflection.io✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created by SLB

What’s up folks, today on the show we are joined by Adriana Gil Miner.Born and raised in Venezuela, she’s a 20+ year marketing exec who got her start as a data analyst and went on to work at American Express. She then worked with some of the top brands in the world after moving into PR and digital strategy at Weber Shandwick, an A-list agency according to Ad-ageAdriana then ended up going through a wild growth ride leading Brand marketing at Tableau– a well known analytics platform. Today, she’s CMO at Iterable, one of the top customer-led marketing automation platforms on the planet.Adriana, it’s a pleasure to be chatting today, thanks so much for your time.In-house marketing vs agencyYou’ve had a fascinating career bouncing from agency to in-house roles. Agency for 2 yearsIn-house for 5 years at AmexFreelance for 2 yearsBack to agency for 5 years at two different firmsBut along the way you got the in-house itch again and joined Tableau where you ran Brand marketing for 6.5 years. And you’ve been in-house ever since, getting the CMO gig at Qumulo and now Iterable. Talk to us about what you loved and hated most about in-house vs agency and why you ultimately settled on in-house.Follow-up: At what point in your journey did you decide you wanted to be a CMO? Was there ever a point where you considered staying IC and focusing on data vs leadership and people management?How ‘hands-on’ do marketing leaders need to be in the product they sell?Jon and I are no strangers to the world of BI having both spent parts of our career at an SMB focused dashboard tool in Klipfolio. As the SVP of Brand Marketing at Tableau, how close were you to the product and how skilled would you say you had to be in data analysis? CMO of 2030 -- what should they be working on today? Storytelling, data and technologyYou’ve said in several places that you love bringing together the art of storytelling, technology, and marketing. Talk about some of your most memorable breakthrough campaigns that exemplify this idea bridging story, tech and marketing. The power of storytellingLet’s dive a bit deeper into that. Storytelling is one of the most powerful ways for humans to learn. The best content and brand marketers know this and use it to persuade the rational and the emotional brain. How can marketers get better at storytelling? How can we make stories more relatable – practically, how can stories be more real, vulnerable when you’re selling a B2B tech product?Spotting up and coming marketing superstarsYou’ve written about having a lot of pride in discovering and nurturing up-and-coming marketer rockstars. Walk us through your approach for discovering some of these future rockstars and what are some of the early signs and qualities you look for.Customer advocacy and community marketingSomething that was a big part of your time at Tableau was prioritizing community marketing. Walk us through some of the benefits that this can have on brand growth and customer advocacy opportunities. The relationship between how we use marketing technology and community? Why is community such an integral part of successful B2B products? Branding gets a bad rep“I don’t believe in brand marketing. If you build a good product and people love it, they will share it.” I’ve heard too many technical CEOs say this. What do you say to a business leader that doesn’t believe in brand marketing and how would you respond to that if – as CMO – your CEO walked in a room and told you that? Follow-up do you think there’s anything marketers can do to change a founders mind if they don’t believe in branding? Do you think founders and CEOs need to create the brand so that marketers can drive the brand?Branding vs positioning vs GMT vs demand genMarketers get a bad rep for all the buzzwords we throw around but don’t all agree on what we mean when we say them:BrandingPositioningGo to marketDemand generationFor professionals who are supposed to be good at communication, we don’t do a good job at making ourselves understood. Walk us through your definitions and how we might better align with how we use them?Future of marketingThere was a viral tweet on the future of marketing last week that I thought was interesting and would love your take on. This is from George Mack, “Don't try to create great content. Instead, try to create Red Pills (dramatically transformed perspectives) that groups are thinking about but nobody is talking about.” How can marketers create more Red Pills? Being in the marketing automation space for a bit now, what do you think are some of these perspectives that need to be transformed?LatinX women in techYou’ve written bravely and powerfully about your experience as a Latina immigrant and shared your thoughts on the Caucasian male narrative that dominates much of the world. Talk about your change in mindset when it comes to the importance and power of checking that box despite not always feeling like you fit the stereotype people often have.Time management /stayin

What’s up everyone, on the show today we have one of the planet’s leading search engine marketers. We’re joined by Mike King. He’s the founder and CEO of iPullRank, an awarding-winning SEO agency. In 2020 he was named Search Marketer of the Year by Search Engine Land, and has been a Global Associate for Moz for more than 10 years. He’s been on the cutting edge of technical SEO his entire career, and he’s currently working on an upcoming book, the science of SEO: Decoding Search Engine Algorithms.He’s a confident introvert and proud Philly native, but these days he pulls rank in a cabana in South Beach, wearing Nike Air Max 1s, and listening to Snoh Aalegra. Mike’s also a Dad, a freestyle rapper, and a highly-engaging keynote speaker. Mike, it’s great to have you on the show – thanks so much for your time.Career path to starting your own agencyYou got your start as a webmaster working for Microsoft in 1996. Since then, you have worked in-house in numerous different SEO roles. Eventually, however, you founded iPullRank, an award winning agency. What prompted you to start your own agency? You started iPullRank 8 years ago, today your team is 15+ full time people. You’ve said that you love your team, but not in the “we’re a family” kind of way but rather in the "I respect these people and I want us all to win together" way. Talk to us about the kind of agency you built and what sets you apart?The art of an SEO auditI remember a few years ago when we worked with you and you and your team presented us with what I can only call an epic SEO audit. One thing that impressed me the most was that everything you outlined was practical and had clear implementation.Audits get a bit of a bad wrap. I’ve seen a few reports passed off as SEO audits which are effectively S.E.M.Rush or Ahrefs audits with a logo replacement.What should all SEOs be thinking about when they start a client audit? What’s the secret sauce of a great SEO audit.SEO is the testing we did along the wayA theme in your approach to SEO is testing rather than relying on the data provided by Google or other tools. Everyone is familiar with A/B testing things like landing pages and subject lines.What does testing in the SEO context look like? Can you give our listeners a primer?To code or not to code?I’ve been learning to code for a few years now. While I haven’t found too many practical applications to coding in my day job, I’ve personally found it fun to learn and gratifying to speak more at eye-level with devsYou have a strong background in coding. Do you think it’s an important or even an essential skill for modern marketers? What advice do you have for folks thinking about learning to code? The end of Universal AnalyticsThe one constant in SEO land is change. Though the end of Universal Analytics seems to be hitting everyone a bit different. What’s your take on this shift to Google Analytics 4? How are people preparing? Are people prepared?Future-proofing for SEOAlgorithm changes and updates are effectively part of the SEOs daily regimen. The only constant is change. How do you future-proof your website/brand against future updates? Is there a technology solution such as adopting modern frameworks like React and Gatsby with a headless CMS or is it by acquiring a certain set of skills as a contributor to be proactive (when possible) and reactive (when needed)? Top SEOs of 2032 In 2020 you were named Search Marketer of the Year by Search Engine Land. First, congrats on the accomplishment! Second, I’d like to get your perspective on the future of SEO and what it’ll take to be named Search Marketer of the Year in 2030?What skills will the top SEOs have in 10 years? If you were starting today, where would you invest in yourself?Technical SEO & Modern Digital MarketingIn 2016 you wrote a piece for the Moz blog on the technical SEO renaissance. You cover a lot of ground in that piece, but reading it now, it holds up incredibly well. Some of what you wrote verges on the prophetic, particularly when you think about Core Web Vitals and the importance of page speed and user experience.Modern SEO feels remarkably similar to developing a SaaS application – web teams need to focus on UX, performance, utility and, of course, content. If you were to write that piece today, what would your call to action be? Science of SEO BookYou’ve got a book coming out next year titled the “The Science of SEO: Decoding Search Engine Algorithms”What inspired you to write this book? What do you hope SEOs will get out of this book?Happiness, balance, successThe first line in your Twitter bio is dedicated to your daughters and you’re a firm believer in family over everything. You run a multi million dollar digital marketing agency, work with some of the top brands on the planet, regularly speak at conferences, you’re writing a book, and rapping on the side…How do you find balance in your life? What does happiness and success look like to Mike King? ✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCo

What’s up folks, today on the show we are joined by India WatersBased in Atlanta Georgia, she’s a community management expert with a deep appreciation for startups. She got her start running community at Memoir, a NY-based startup that built a photo sharing app. The startup eventually pivoted to focus on photo sharing for the wedding industry and was later acquired by The Knot – one of the biggest wedding brands. India currently leads growth and technology partnerships at MessageGears, a customer marketing platform for enterprise customers. India thanks for taking some time to chat with us today!Early startup daysWalk us through some of the early days at Memoir, I read that you got 2 rounds of funding which included prominent investors. You spent 4.5 years there and I’m sure things changed quickly and often.The importance of trying new thingsBefore landing at Memoir – You graduated from UGA in the middle of a recession with not very many jobs available. Walk us through some of the earliest jobs you did and what advice you’d have for folks in similar positions today.Constantly changing strategies in startupsSo that eventually brought to startup land – Phil and I are no strangers to working for startups and needing to consider pivots and changing strategies. What lessons do you have when it comes to adapting to frequent strategy changes?Target customersYou first started working at Memoir which was an app for consumers and was probably hard to segment as it could be used by anyone. Then the company (Veri) refocused to pivot the app for the wedding industry which led to the acquisition. Now you’re at a tech company selling marketing software to marketers. Talk about how different it is to sell a product with product market fit or a more focused target customer?Community-led growthSome of your earliest focus areas were community growth. What did community-led growth look like 10 years ago vs today?Working up to different roles at a bigger companyYou’ve been at MessageGears now for a little over 4 years and you’ve held 4 different roles there. Starting with Market research analyst and biz dev to Growth manager, to senior growth manager and now Associate Director of Tech partnerships. Oftentimes folks will leave a company to get a promotion but your the perfect example of working up at the same company. Talk us through some of the ways you were able to get promoted and yeah walk us through that journey a bit.MessageGears – on premise vs SaaSLet’s talk about the product for a bit. You’re one of the 300+ names that show up on G2’s grid of marketing automation software but you describe yourselves differently. ‘the first and only customer marketing platform that connects directly to our customer’s enterprise data warehouse.’ Talk us through that, the first and only platform that connects directly to your DW On premise software vs SaaS and cloud based tools Connecting and using DW data vs (API) operating on a copy of your dataMessageGears vs Pardot and MarketoI noticed in one of your job openings that MessageGears actually uses Pardot to send marketing campaign emails?Work with Demand Generation team to execute lead generation, nurture and conversion programs in Pardot.What’s the difference between Mg and Pardot and why doesn’t MG use MG?Baby podcastYou started a new podcast with a colleague from MessageGears, tell us more about that!Time management /staying happyOne question we ask all our guests is how do you remain happy and successful in your career? How do you find balance between all the things you’re working on while staying happy?--India’s twitter: https://twitter.com/indialandwaters India’s LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/india-waters/ ✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created by SLB

The great resignation phenomena has taken over mainstream media, but what does it really mean? Is it simply a buzzword for saying, more people than ever are sticking to remote work and not going back to the office? Or does it actually mean that more people are taking the leap and leaving bad workplaces, and toxic jobs? Let’s call it the great realization or the great awakening. COVID and the pandemic didn’t just open up the eyes of CEOs and managers to remote work, more importantly, it awakened a class of workers who’ve been sucking it up in a bad job thinking it was normal and that things aren’t better anywhere else. But these people are awake now. And better jobs and companies do exist. Here’s todays main takeaway: Hustle culture is dying. You deserve better pay, more flexible hours, less meetings, better benefits and better leadership.Last season in episode 048, we told you when to quit your job. In today’s episode, we’ll walk you through a simple playbook for finding a good job, with a company you love.JT are you ready?—The importance of networking in finding a job and how this doesn’t mean what it used to.Most leaders are looking for known quantities, and want a reference from within their circleDo good work at your current company, be someone others want to work with, complete your tasks on time – people will recommend youNetworking isn’t becoming an influencer; it’s getting to know the communityProvide value, and you will get value in return—I’m part of several marketing communities, one I’ve heard great things about and just recently joined is ALL IN, a free Slack community for in-house marketers created by Brendan Hufford, the guy behind SEO for the rest of us.One of the coolest channels is the #career channel where you can post questions about specific challenges. Recently a fellow member posted about having a hard time finding a new role. He mentioned applying to a bunch of places but not hearing back from any of them.I helped some of my former students in this exact situation and I’ve boiled it down to a simple blueprint for this episode. —LOL - I'm incredibly anti-social. I'm not part of any community -- I stay in touch with past colleagues;I will reach out to folks in community to do mind-shares -- that has resulted in most of my consulting opportunities.—Alright I’ll share the blueprint in it’s simple form and then I’ll go in depth on each step… you’ll see it’s pretty simple but it’s been super powerful for me in my career.Keep a nice list of companies you'd love to work forFind the hiring managers on LinkedIn and follow them (not the same as req connection)Add links to each HM’s activity feed in your list and check it out twice a week or more oftenLike their posts, reply to them when you think you can add valueKeep an eye on job postings they shareBefore you apply, reach out to the hiring manager and ask if they can answer questions asyncSend them thoughtful questions about how to stand out and what makes a great candidateCrush the application process—I like the advice on having a companies you’d love to work for. I imagine this requires a bit of soul searching on what you want out of your own career. How did you figure that out? And what does that list of companies look like for you? –Yeah I’m not super active on social in terms of spitting stuff out, but I’m what you could call a doom scroller… I read too much. So I’m fairly in tune with new companies or companies that are standing out. When I discover one of these companies, I add them to my list.Before getting a gig at WordPress, some of the companies I was actively keeping an eye on we’reZapierNotionBufferAhrefsAppcuesConvertkitCustomerioIterable1passwordVidyardBrazeGrammerly… —How do you come up with the list?—It’s a mix between the folks they attract, their products, their size and also that they’re fully remote. Everyone’s list should be a bit different whether you prefer big companies or small or fintech vs martech. –Alright, so you gotta list of dream companies, whats next?–Step 2 is finding their linkedin pages and figuring out who are the hiring managers on that team. So if you’re a marketer, look for the VPs and the director of marketing or growth or whatever you’re into.The key thing here is don’t just flat out cold ask for a connection request. Some of these folks are super friendly and they'll accept. But you don’t have a relationship yet so you’re better offer clicking on the “follow button”.Once you’re on their profile, scroll down to the activities section and click on See all activity, then hit Posts. That’s a direct feed to everything they post on LinkedIn. Grab that URL and add it to your spreadsheet next to the company name and the hiring manager’s name.As an extra step, you can search twitter to see if they are active on there too.–Up to you how often you want to do this but you can skip this stpe if you’re on LinkedIn everyday, chances are you’ll catch their posts anyway but in the spirit of digital minimalism, carve

What’s up everyone! Today on the show we’ve got one of my favorite email marketers and arguably the funniest marketing twitter account to follow, we’re joined by Samar Owais. She’s a top Email pro and female entrepreneur based in Karachi, Pakistan. She designs email strategies and writes email copy for SaaS & eCommerce clients with a simple goal: increase conversions and reduce churn.She isn’t your average consultant though. Samar is a model of courage and heart, known for being fiercely independent, doing excellent work, caring about results and always telling the truth. She’s worked with big brands like Drip, Pinterest and Hubspot, as well as solopreneurs like Paul Jarvis, Fix my churn, Copyhackers and a growing list of smaller Ecomm businesses. She runs an awesome email newsletter where she picks email fights and questions the status quo of how things are typically done in the email world. She also runs an ecomm bootcamp to help folks become email pros.Samar, we’re grateful to have you on the show.Pivot from content marketing to emailI have a lot of friends who started in email and ended up moving into content, sounds like you did the opposite. Give us the long story :)Discounts and emailsSomething I’ve learned from you is how to think about discounts in email. Discounts get a bad rep because they eat away at your profits, bargain brand perception, attract shoppers that are deal-focused and avoids addressing actual issues. Do you ever make exceptions to your no discount rules like bundled discounts in dtc or shipping delays… How to email marketing - without using discounts, especially when your sales team is requesting them or you’re starting a role where it’s just business as usual?Email approachAside from no (or as little as possible discounts) you’ve shared your simple strategy for email marketing also consists of extra focus on CX and open to experimentation. I’d love for you to expand on that a bit:https://twitter.com/samarowais/status/1486534280725602305 Email should be owned by everyone at the companyYou’ve said this before on a few podcasts, how do you operationalize that in bigger teams with growing opinions?Growing traffic that’ll convert into email subsOne of my favorite tweets of yours is when you claim too many folks obsess about growing an email list vs growing traffic that will convert into email subs. What’s the difference and what advice do you have for early marketers responsible for email and lead gen.https://twitter.com/samarowais/status/1487200305515274245?s=20&t=nZYTI902PZupV-xvupvH7g Ecomm email bootcampI love your ecomm email bootcamp landing page. “This is not a get rich quick scheme” and “I don’t teach anything inside this course that you can’t eventually learn and figure out on your own.” This is a very humble way of saying, “yo I’ve been doing this for 10+ years and I’ve crammed hundreds if not thousands of hours of experience and research into a digestible course so I can save you a shit ton of time.”Talk to us about your process for building an email course from scratch, how do you decide what’s important enough given the limited amount of content you can cover?follow-up:You tweeted about some of the email challenges as part of your bootcamp/workshop. One thing you said was being so proud seeing some of your students emerge as email strategist. What are early signs that tell you someone has “it”https://twitter.com/samarowais/status/1489243917476192266 Saas bootcamp course one day?I loved your tweet about maybe creating a similar email bootcamp for Saas but it would be a deep dive into pouring over customer research until you find the real problem and then figuring out how to fix it with email.In all seriousness, many SaaS are completely blind to this and we don’t have to talk about the importance of understanding your customers but ‘how do you fix things’ with email, can you give us some practical examples?https://twitter.com/samarowais/status/1483513135499780097 Email newsletter platformsYour email teardown newsletter is powered by Converkit, but I know you’ve been in a bunch of other platforms. Talk to us about your favorites and what makes a great email automation tool.Who you don’t work with.I love that on your site you have a section about who you don’t work with. “I’m not the email strategist and copywriter for you if you’re a tobacco, gambling, alcohol, or an arms and ammunition company.” What advice do you have for early freelancers that don’t want to work with specific companies but are afraid of being that bold this early?Girl educ...

What’s up everyone! Today we have a super special guest on the show, this interview is more than 12 months in the making – You probably already follow him on Twitter – I’ve personally learned a bunch from him and know you’re going to get a lot of value from our conversation today. Today we’re joined by Corey Haines.He’s a full time creator and the former head of Growth at Baremetrics. These days he keeps busy with many different things. He runs a weekly newsletter, And a growing marketing community, He also manages multiple podcasts, he wrote a few SaaS marketing courses, he built-sold-and bought back a marketing jobboard and he’s a startup marketing consultant/advisor. Most importantly, Corey’s all-round great dude with a world class beard.Corey, we’re grateful to have you on the show – thanks for taking the time.September 2020, you quit your job at Baremetrics to become a full time creator. You wrote about this and described it like you strapped on a spacesuit, launched into space and your plan is to figure out where you want to go from there. How has the journey been 1.5 years later? Do you know where you’re going yet?Yeah. Oh, man. The last year has been a whirlwind. I guess it's almost been like a year and a half now since I left. The North Star guiding goal has been to get into SaaS myself, start a SaaS company, maybe even a couple of products, and just have a small portfolio of bets and multiple things going on at once and see where they all kind of take me. I knew that doing that with a full time job is pretty hard, especially when I didn't want to step on your toes at Bearmetrics since we sold other SaaS startups. So I didn't want to build something that ended up competing with one of our customers. So I just kind of knew, like, that wasn't really an option for me. I didn't want to get another job and then start working on those side projects as well. But also, I wasn't really even close to building anything quite yet anyways. But I just wanted to kind of pull the trigger and jump and strap onto the rocketship, get into space. And then I could figure out where I was going from there. And on a personal level, very, very challenging. And like a lot of learning on hey, here's how to manage cash flow for all the different kinds of feasts and family cycles of freelancing and consulting. And just like knowing where to kind of find money and all the different revenue streams that you have when you're on your own, you don't have a paycheck really coming through the door. From a time management perspective, I've really learned how to be super ruthless with my time. I would say for the first four or five months I imagined once I left, I was like, I'm going to be free. I have so much time, I'm just going to get so much done. All these things are on my list. And then I didn't get anything done for like four months. I was like, what is happening? And because I had so many different meetings, so many admin things. I was busy doing emails, I was trying to chip away at small things here and there, but I was never really moving the ball forward in any one direction. And so I learned to be really ruthless. Now I do most of my meetings, like 95% of my meetings on Wednesdays. The rest of the week is completely wide open and I set what I want to get done, and I get those things done. And sometimes I work late, sometimes I work early. But you have to be really ruthless. It's been a great learning experience because really through the startups that I've worked for, consulting, advising, freelancing. Now I’m basically the marketing lead for Savvy Cal as well. So that's kind of helped bring back some stability in my life. And I see them all as just kind of practice rounds and getting in the reps and sets for learning how to build and grow a SaaS startup for when I want to do that for myself and for my own, especially the last year and a half, it's been like an invaluable learning lesson. Bootstrapping SaaS is really hard. You have to put yourself in the right position. Honestly, I wouldn't say that going the VC route is easier because I think raising money is really, really hard and it's a grind. And once you're on that track, there's a lot of expectations and it's a whole different game. But in the early days, it's easier because you have money, you pay yourself a paycheck. You hire the people to work with you. Bootstrapping is not easy. And so I would count this last year and a half as a part of my bootstrapping journey for building SaaS because it's all the work you have to do in order to be able to be financially stable, to put your time on something else completely without your whole world kind of exploding and going broke or, like, maxing out your credit cards. So I'm doing the best that I can, but I think I’m doing a pretty okay job so far. Multiple eggs in different basketsOne thing I want to ask about – you kind of mention the various different projects you're working on, like the idea of having multiple eggs in d

What’s up folks – we’ve been away for a while but we’re back and in full swing for season 2 with even better content than season 1.Today we’re going to tease some of our early season 2 episodes and catch you up on what we’ve been up to since our break.JT, in August of last year, your world changed in two huge ways. Your wife gave birth to twin boys Felix and Clyde.You might hear them in the background of a few episodes as we usually coincide with feeding time.Man – a huge family of 6 now, 2 girls, 2 boys… are things starting to settle down a bit now having crossed the 6 month mark?As a hopeful parent one day myself, I have many questions, the first is: with your twin boys, did you ever mix up which baby was which and just went with it? Is it true that even in identical twins, belly buttons are always different and the best way to tell them apart?Walk me through the routine of managing a tsunami of children. When does Jon go to bed, between all the diaper changes, do you get any time for yourself, are you still finding yourself able to get up super early?You’ve said to me that having a 4th baby is like being handed a baby while you’re already treading water… Do you still agree that going from 0-1 is the biggest transition?Tell the listeners about your freaking sauna and how it’s changed your life LOLSo after your parental leave – you took back the helm of leading Klipfolio’s marketing team. What’s exciting you the most about what the team is cooking up over there these days?Phil, you started at Automattic / WordPress.com in June last summer, you’re coming up on 10ish months now. Having only ever worked in startups before, how’s it been adapting to a 2,000+ person org?It’s been pretty wild honestly. Automattic is like a mini Berkshire Hathaway – a holding company of sorts that houses many different products and brands under one roof. I have colleagues that work on Woo Commerce (the open source Shopify), Tumblr (Taylor Swift’s favorite social media platform), and some that work with me on WordPress.com. But we also have WordPress VIP, JetPack, Long Reads, Simplenote and during my early days there we acquired PocketCasts (the best podcast app) and DayOne (a journaling app that I’ve been using for many years).So wpcom isn’t a 2,000 person company, we’re like 400 but yeah biggest marketing team I’ve ever been part of for sure. Biggest transition period for me was less about working with a bigger team and more about working asynchronously across multiple different teams. We use a tool called P2, its an open source collaboration app built on Gutenberg/WP and it’s how we mainly communicate with each other.Aside from a few HR emails, I don’t think I’ve ever had an email from a colleague. Everything is on P2 or on Slack. We do have some synchronous zoom calls, but any key decisions is always posted back on P2.Missed a week because of a vacation, you don’t need to have a colleague catch you up in a meeting, you have a nice list of unread P2 posts and you’re right back into it.It honestly feels like a different world… but I think it’s where the world is moving.What excites you the most about working at WP almost hitting the 1 year mark.I’ve sharpened my growth experimentation skills and my email copywriting skills but I find the product fascinating. I got to take a tiny part in rolling out FSE, WordPress’ big 5.9 update which came with some huge changes to the product. It’s already been downloaded by 60M sites across the world and it’s been really fun tagging along and seeing the next lineup of changes.So with all the stuff going on, we definitely leaned on guest episodes to start season 2 and we’ve got some big names, some folks are huge on twitter, some folks are c level in big tech, some are up and coming super stars, you know us, we've got a nice mix of folks with wide ranging topics and opinions.✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

HUGE thank you to all of our awesome guests. In celebration of our 50th episode, we're rounding up all the answers to the most important question we asked every single one of our guests: what advice do they have on how they've managed to balance everything life throws at them and how they stay happy and sane at work.This is our 50th episode. Most of our episodes were actually just the two of us, jamming on a topic. Sometimes we went deep in a technical topic like email deliverability or lifecycle. Sometimes we talked about the people skills, working in tech, working remote. 15 of our 50 episodes had guest interviews. We showcased martech folks from different roles and seniority levels. But for each of our guests, we finished by asking the same question: What advice do you have on how to balance everything life throws at you and how do you stay happy and sane at work?Our guests share their answers back to back, time stamps below:02:00 - Lauren Sanborn (05: Happiness at the intersection of sales & marketing)"Happiness is all about your perspective, 25% your situation and 75% how you look at it." 05:22 - Brian Leonard (07: Be friends with engineering with open source Martech)"The secret of autonomy and purpose is to work on something that is important. Find a way to write your own job description so that it lines up with your purpose and mastery."06:16 - Nick Donaldson (10: Curiosity, learning & success in your MOPs career)"Prioritize your family and your friends. Turn off notifications outside work hours and dedicate time to doing things you enjoy." 07:40 - Jonathan Simon (11: Do you still need a degree to have success in marketing?)"It’s hard. Exercise and mental health is incredibly important. Pick up hobbies, do what makes you happy, find time for yourself." 11:02 - Julie Beynon (17: Making marketing analytics not intimidating)"You have to be proactive. You’re the only person that owns your happiness. If you’re not happy, you need to fix it, not someone else."13:10 - Steffen Hedebrandt (19: Reaching B2B attribution nirvana)"Having a kid makes you become really good at prioritizing. I ask myself, does this make me happy or does this correlate with more revenue yes or no?" 14:40 - Naomi Liu (25: How to ace your first marketing job)"Tech is my love language, and I get a lot of satisfaction using it to solve other peoples problems both in my personal life and business."15:08 - Melissa Ledesma (26: Melissa Ledesma: Women of Martech)"I encourage you to step away and talk to your friends about your job. They will not understand a word of what you’re saying, and let them show you their own excitement and absorb that. There’s so much more for us to be invigorated by if we take a moment to remember what we’re actually doing." 16:45 - Erin Blaskie (27: Startup marketing, in-house vs freelance)"Ditch everyone else’s definition of success. Nobody cares that you drive a BMW and it likely won’t amount to additional happiness. Focus on what would make you feel successful as a person and don’t be afraid of having a non linear path." 19:11 - Shannon McCluskey (37: Searching for remote martech pros)"Ever since I’ve become a mom I’ve been learning by necessity and actively keeping my working hours 9-5. Remote work is always around the corner but it’s important to get that distance to make sure you connect with family."20:37 - Pierce Ujjainwalla (39: Creativity in marketing is under attack)"I never work past 5. I never work on the weekends. I attribute happiness to pleasure and challenges. Pleasure is golfing and skiing and I find a lot of challenge in my work but also some hobbies. Lawn care gives me a mental break. Digging out weeds is very relaxing." 22:33 - Manuela Barcenas (41: From first marketer to team manager)"To stay balanced and happy, find activities that make you feel good, block time in your calendar for specific tasks and get into journaling."24:38 - Roxanne Pepin (44: Startups and the ability to learn RevOps)"Having a separate space in your house for where you work. Being able to “leave” and not have to bring your work with you in other places of your house. Oh and take Slack off your phone!"26:54 - Danica Bateman (46: A day in the life of a Marketing Automation Manager)"Surround yourself with positive people. People that are invested in your success and want to see you grow and thrive." 27:48 - Vladlena Mitskaniouk (47: Grow your marketing career one data mystery at a time)"Acknowledge that things came in waves. When the clam is there, really embrace those moments. Don’t always try and push yourself through every moment. Book vacation well ahead of time and check out. Book time for your lunch, book time for your workouts, book time in the morning to do a checkin with yourself. No one else is going to save that time for you. "✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

Half of all podcasts have fewer than 14 episodes. When we started Humans of Martech, we were determined not to become a statistic.As we near the end of our first season and approach our 50th episode, we wanted to give you a peek behind the curtain to see how we think about this show.For us, at least, the idea of hitting 50 episodes is a big milestone -- and anyone thinking of starting their own shows -- whether it’s a personal project or for your company -- needs to be prepared to put in some work.Let’s dive in!Show thesis & missionWhy is your show worth your audience’s timeWhy is it worth your timeYou have to be motivated to do this week after weekEquipmentQuality is important; get a good set upMic; A cardioid (heart shaped) polar range eliminates unwanted background noise from behind and the sides, making this an affordable mic that's suited for podcastingAudio-Technica 20 SERIES AT2005USB Cardioid Dynamic Microphone amazon linkI read a lot about mics and tested a few out, I don’t recommend the Blue Yeti mic despite so many podcast guides recommend it. You will suffer from something called proximity effect. The Blue Yeti is a Condenser Mic, not a dynamic mic. Condenser mics will pick up sounds a mile away, and there are indeed valid concerns around air conditioners running etc.Get a pop filter, practice how to mindfully not blow air in the mic when you pronounce Ss and Ps and Ts.Zoom — but also tried riverside. Riverside was amazing quality, but too amazing. We needed to clean up too much of the audio because it highlighted too many imperfections for my taste. Zoom gets the job done, make sure in your settings you boost audio input from everyone, you don’t reduce too much background noise and that you record separate audio files for each participant. Editing -- Garageband for the win. I usually clean up the audio files in Audacity, I have a few plugins that clean up some audio, especially when we have a guest that comes on recording from their laptop mic. DistributionTransistor.fm to auto distribute and host everything for usAnchor, soundcloud also optionsApple PodcastsSpotifyPocket CastsGoogle PodcastsA lot scrape Apple thoughApple isn’t a great service when publishing, any edits take a while to update the RSS, best to publish earlyStyle of showWe love having guests on but only about 40% of our episodes are run by a guestWe worked a lot on the show formatresearching and writing episodesone person as subject matter expert, one person as hostThe lost episodes5 or 6 episodes that were recorded and on Phil’s computerTook a while for us to get our groove. even the early episodes of this season we notice a big improvementPromotionThe part of the show we invest the least amount into. Our mission is to help marketers be happy & successful — we believe in that mission and that over time the show will build an audience by providing valueWe did experiment with a few things:Mailchimp listTwitter and LinkedIn posts weeklyHeadliner and audiogramsOwler for translationsIndividual episode artworkCohost vs solo: it’s really nice to have a cohost when interviewing guests — get a moment to think as you go; if there’s an awkward pause as you think of your next question the host comes in. Advice if you’re starting a podcast for your business or on your own:- Develop a strong thesis -- it’s the beating heart of the show and will keep you motivated in the long run

Whether you’ve got something lined up or you need a fresh start, quitting your job is a huge life decision, -- in today’s episode, we’ll cover signs to look out for that might be telling you it’s time to move on from your current role. Being successful and happy in martech requires having a true north for your career. Sometimes, that means recognizing that your current workplace isn’t helping you advance your career. It could be you’re not happy with your work culture or work for a bad manager; or, it could be that it’s time to move on to acquire the skills needed to reach the next level.Alright JT, I feel like this episode has been a long time in the making. We teased about it in the trailer, it’s something most people do a few times in their career; handing in that two weeks notice. But leaving a job isn’t always about leaving a bad workplace or boss. Sometimes you work for someone awesome at a great company, but it’s time to move on for your own progress. No one gets to decide that for you. You call the shots in your career. Leaving a job should be objective: Make a list of pros and cons when comparing two positions. What factors matter most to you? What are your goals? Knowing when to quit your job is about having a sense of your north star for your career. Having a north star for your careerFreedom with your careerHave red linesCareer mission statement For me, there’s many ways you can make this more complex for this but in its simplest form, the north star of your career is your vision for fulfilling 3 things: 1- Passion and meaning, something that motivates and energizes you2- Sustainable income, cover costs comfortably, save for futureAnd 3- can be pursued in balance with your personal life, something that allows you to spend time with family, build strong relationships and good health. That’s it, it’s a simple formula. It’s more guide posts. Early in your career, the 2nd factor is less important and usually the 3rd factor is less busy so you can double down on the first factor and discover your work passion and meaning. It’s okay to change your North star Career plans are meant to be flexible. My favorite part about the north star metaphor for career purposes is that the North star actually changes and it isn’t exactly north. The current north star is Polaris, but because the Earth’s axis shifts every several thousand years, different stars will serve as north stars. But also, the North Star isn’t exactly north. Polaris is the closest star to true north, and is "close enough" for most basic navigation purposes- So your career north Star can change and it doesn’t have to be super specific. Like our sailing ancestors, when we are lost at sea, it’s meant to guide us. We can always look up to the sky to reorient ourselves and get back on course. Example:Years 1-5, no salary objective. Only objective: trying shit out.Years 4-6, company objective; work with top talent in cityYears 5-7, find a niche or dive into leadership GoalsAdvice: Have specific career goals every year or two, reset them. Maybe you joined a company as a marketing specialist with the goal of learning everything you can about their tech stack to one day become a marketing automation manager. That could be with that company, or another.Tell your boss about your goals, help them help youNever say no to a coffee, especially early onMoonlight/freelanceKeep a solid LinkedIn profile, keep an eye on jobsWhat does it mean to ‘hit’ your ceilingWhat does it mean to hit your ceiling and how do you know you’ve hit it? Is it when you staying in your comfort zone too often. “I learned everything I could” but did you? Is that even possible?Your career needs new stimuli:Growth requires stimulation. If you’re not getting enough in your current environment, it can feel like you’re stalling outNo mentor at your current workplace. This is why you sometimes see a chain reaction when a senior leader leaves Signs it’s time to quitAt what point did you realize it was time to quit? What are the sure signs it’s time to leave a job?Unsupportive coworkers / boss, when your boss/coworker doesn't like you.When you hate going to work, get the Sunday scaries.When you bring that stress home. You feel unhappy at home because of work. When it impacts your health.Your role no longer supports your long-term career ambitionsYou want to work with a different industryYou want to work with a mentor or a team that can level you upYou just “feel” it’s time for a changeYou found an exciting opportunityCareer or role switchSometimes, you just can’t get the opportunity at your current company.If your dream is to be an Marketing Analytics pro, but your company doesn’t invest in the tools you want to advance your careerHow to quit your jobThis is an unsung part of the process. I think that leaving in a respectful manner is incredibly important, and sometimes it’s hard, especially if you’re emotionally invested in the company (negatively or positively)You can determine exactly how but

Hey everyone, today on the show we are joined by Vladlena Mitskaniouk, Director of Digital Marketing at Snyk. Born in Moldova, raised in Ottawa, she’s a communications grad who’s spent her decade plus career carving a craft in digital marketing and marketing analytics. She got her start at a real estate agency where she learned content marketing before working at MD Financial where she became Digital Marketing Manager and started getting really deep into tracking, analytics, marketing operations and advertising. Vladlena then transitioned to the tech industry where she led a Global marketing analytics and digital marketing team at Trend Micro. She’s now a year into her role as Director of Digital Marketing at Snyk — a security company for cloud native apps on a mission to make the world a safer place with more secure software. Vladlena thanks so much for chatting with us today!Here are the questions we asked Vladlena!Learning about your audienceVladlena, you’ve marketed to consumers in the real estate industry, physicians in the finance industry, Chief information officers in the cybersecurity industry and now developers in the cloud native application industry. Talk to us about your process for learning about your audience and your users when you start a new role?Starting out as a directorTalk us through joining a marketing team at a director level on a remote team. For our listeners, what does that process look like and what are the first 90 days like?BuzzwordsDigital marketing, analytics, operations -- how interchangeable are these to you? What skills are transferable and what skills are net new?Ops and analyticsWhat should all marketers learn about operations and analytics?Demand for technical marketersIMO - The demand for specialized, technical marketers has never been higher. For folks looking to go that path, what advice do you have? How do you get the skills required?Roles at SnykTalk to us about some of the open role(s) on your team, I counted 10 open reqs in the marketing department at Snyk! Continuous learningA quick look at your goodreads profile shows your love of non fiction books (The Signal and the Noise: Why So Many Predictions Fail—But Some Don't and Standard Deviations: Flawed Assumptions, Tortured Data, and Other Ways to Lie with Statistics) -- You recently posted about being one of the first LinkedIn Ads certified--what’s the value of certifications from your perspective and maybe talk about how you handle continuous education?Last questionWe always end by asking our guests what tips they have for maintaining a healthy and balanced life?--Vladlena on LinkedIn and twitter.Snyk's site and open jobs.✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

She’s a product of Dalhousie University where she studied Commerce with a major in Marketing Management and completed 3 Coop work terms: first with Excel HR, Syntax strategic and finally Canada Post. Those internships landed her a marketing strategist position at Versature, now net2phone Canada, a local cloud business phone service provider.She’s spent almost 3 years there and has been through a big acquisition. She’ll probably agree that in her time there one of her biggest projects was a big re-branding to net2phone. Danica was promoted last year to Marketing Automation manager where she holds the keys to Salesforce Pardot, one of the biggest marketing automation platforms on the market. She’s certified by SEMRush, Hubspot and Google and she’s also a lights-out brilliant copywriter. Danica, thanks for logging out of pardot for a bit and chatting with us!Here are the questions we asked Danica: Marketers like to make fun of formal business degrees because of how far removed they are from the practical world? What are things that can be self taught that were useful in your first role that you didn’t learn in your degree? What are things you are super thankful you picked up? Walk us through a day in the life, what’s your typical schedule look like? What are some of your favorite projects so far? What advice do you have for marketers looking to transition into marketing automation? How have you invested in your personal development? What do you wish you had known before starting a career in marketing? You joined your company in an entry level role and last year you were promoted to MA manager. Walk us through things you think helped you get promoted and gain trust among your peers? We always end by asking our guests what ti-s they have for maintaining a healthy and balanced life?--Follow Danica on LinkedInnet2phone Canada✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

The marketing landscape is vast, the landscape of doom has as many vendors as their are stars in our galaxy. The T-shaped marketer model is good for folks early in their career — perhaps. I think it’s too regimented, formulaic, and encourages marketers all to acquire the same set of skills — albeit with your own unique depth. I propose a marketing constellation. Bare with me. Like our ancestors staring up the night’s sky, you can use your imagination to come up with your own constellation. Maybe your skillset is an archer or a bull or maybe it’s a lion. Maybe depending on the season of your career, you have a different perspective. So what is the T-Shaped model?Horizontal line at the top - those are your skills. Vertical line that extends down from categories at the top — that’s your depth of skill. I first learned of the T-shape model from an article Brian Balfour wrote in 2014 where he describes a learning path for growth marketers and encourages them to see career progression shaped like a T with 3 levels. Base knowledge: non-marketing specific, a base layer to build from, think behavioral psychology, analytics, positioning, design and ux, storytelling, research… Marketing foundation: marketing specific concepts that are used across channels, think experimentation, graphic design, copywriting, funnel marketing, HTML, customer experience. Channel expertise: where most marketers eventually need to make some choices. Channels are ways you can reach an audience. They are ever changing and emerging, think FB ads, social, Seo, content, email, partnerships, product marketing... So the recommendation is that you get as much breadth in the first two levels as possible to get a nice foundation. When it comes to the 3rd level, this is where the vertical bar starts. You still want some kind of baseline across channels, but most marketers eventually become skilled at a smaller number of those channels and a deep expertise means a vertical T. Brian’s model is focused mainly on growth and customer acquisition. Marketing isn’t just about reaching your audiences so to apply this to a more general marketing path, Buffer took a stab at it too. Where is the model useful? I find it super useful when discussing hires with non-marketing folks — explaining that this is the general skills I’m looking for in a new candidate. So why does JT get cranky about it? It pigeon holes marketers and over simplifies skillsets. It represents regimented thinking and I don’t like that. I think it’s an outdated model that doesn’t exactly benefit marketers. I admit, part of this is I can’t put my finger on it. I’m actually a fan of the t-shape if presented in the right light. But I do admit it’s a very simplified version of your potential areas of focus. What I like about the model is that it encourages early marketers to get a solid foundation and base knowledge before necessarily worrying about specializing in a channel. What does it mean to be a t-shaped marketer? It means they have a solid foundation of concepts and channels but they are experts in one or a few channels. But it doesn’t mean you need to strive for a T. You can be a Y or a W or an M. you’re career could take you in many different paths.Okay so why a marketing constellation? Because you can’t be grouchy and complain about something without suggesting an alternative! It’s an understanding that — like the stars in the night sky — the potential skills you can acquire are varied and spread out. It requires imagination and storytelling to weave those skills together to create a representation of your skills. I also think it’s more likely to represent the potential depth and specialization of each area. Marketing automation isn’t just one skill. It could be: LifecycleLead scoringProject managementLead managementEmail operations and deliverabilityTechnical integrationsAnd you may be more skilled in one area of operations than another. ✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

Today we are joined by Roxanne Pepin, she’s currently based out of Spain but works for Rewind-- an Ottawa based startup as a Revenue Operations Specialist. She manages all the tech that powers Rewind’s sales, marketing and success teams. Before carving a niche in operations, Roxanne wore many digital marketing hats working for an SEO agency then a tech company. She’s actually a computer science drop out turned writing grad where she also spent time in content marketing. More than just a fixer or a troubleshooter, she’s a convergent thinker. Roxanne is described by her peers as a poised and knowledgeable Salesforce admin and a Hubspot platform whiz with a knack for bridging departments together. Her journey growing into a role at one of the coolest companies in Ottawa is deeply rooted in mastery and pragmatic problem solving. Roxanne, we’re pumped to finally have you on -- thanks for taking the time and chatting with us. Is being a digital nomad really as good as it looks? Yes, maybe even better. lolRemote commsYou’re servicing a team of what 40+ marketing and sales teammates? How do you effectively communicate and collaborate with your team remotely from your spain office? Honestly, a lot of my role is answering emails and messages, but I find that being six hours ahead and having my mornings free because my team isn’t online yet allows me to hunker down without distractions and get stuff done. Then when people start to come online I have time to focus on them, hop on calls or zoom meetings, and dedicate that time to them. Everyone knows my schedule, they know that I’m only online until noon their time so they book meetings or slack message me during that time. As long as we communicate our schedules everything works. I try to both remain flexible if there’s something that needs to be done, but also stick to my working hours so that I don’t just have my face buried in my computer at all hours. It helps to have people on your team that you trust to do a good job and that you can direct others towards as well. How to say noOne of my favorite quotes from a presentation you gave to my students this year while describing your role and journey was:“everything is doable, but it doesn’t mean you should do it” lolMaybe walk us through some of the stories behind that mantra and why it might be helpful for other marketers when it comes to prioritization and concentration.Honestly, I’ve seen too many intermediary platform connections fail. I try to weigh how valuable an automation or a connection will be against how many connections and tools it requires. If you’re trying to eliminate three clicks from a process but I need to connect four different platforms to make that happen, I’ll likely say no because the odds of one of those connections failing is high and then we need to do damage control which will take a lot more time than your three clicks, you know? One thing that I’ve also learned is that everyone thinks everything they ask for is super important. And sometimes these things are only very important until they forget about them two days later. I once spent a few days connecting things and configuring things, working with a platform’s support team to get a couple reports combined that came from different sources that had very different ways of presenting data because it was vital that we combined these two numbers, but then when it was all said and done, no one cared or used the new report. Sometimes if I’m questioning the importance of someone’s ask, I like to let it stew for a couple of days just to determine if it’s really as important now as it was two days ago.I’ve also come across some things where it was like… “hey can do you automate this repetitive task” OR “can you set up a notification for this thing that happens a lot, I need to know when it happens”. Then a few weeks later I get the “hey, can you turn this off, it’s really annoying” message. TrainingAs someone who works in Ops, you don’t always get the chance to play on the front lines and do customer facing stuff. You often need to also focus on your teammates.Walk us through how big of a role training and facilitation comes into play in your day to day?Honestly, it’s in my best interest to make sure my team knows how to use the tools at their disposal. What good is it to me to set up processes and tools if people don’t know how to use them? Then we end up paying for things we don’t need. The other thing is that a big part of ops is to make things as efficient as possible for those customer-facing teams. In the end if I make their jobs easier, they can do more of what they’re meant to do and that leads to more revenue and more growth which is the goal we’re all working towards. No barriers Something I struggled with when I was in an Ops role was that I didn’t always get to pick projects, I didn’t always get a say in strategy. So if you could remove all barriers and constraints, what project or idea would you love to tackle or be known for solving.

What’s up everyone, this is part 2 of our two part episode on email deliverability and getting into the primary tab in Gmail.If you haven’t yet, start with last week’s episode where we covered 2 crucial classification factors according to Google. The content in your email and how users interact with your emails. Here’s today’s main takeaway: Most email marketers understand that email domain and IP reputation play a critical role in your ability to land in the inbox. But most email marketers will admit they are easily spooked by all the accompanying fancy authentication acronyms. SPF, DKIM, DMARC, they just mean allowing Gmail and other email clients to verify you as the sender. We’ll break those and many more email deliverability tips right now.Today’s episode will cover things you can do that would help with other email clients, not just Gmail. We’ll cover sender reputation, authentication as well as tactics in your automation tool to improve deliverability. 3. Sender repWe know for sure that factors that influence the spam folder are also factors in the inbox vs promos tab, that’s who the email is from. There’s an IP behind the sender, but there’s a domain behind the IP.Domain reputation vs sender ip reputation. There’s two main types of email reputation that can affect your sending: 1) IP Reputation and 2) Domain Reputation. Both reputation scores are calculated separately but as you’ll see as we unpack things, both scores are closely related as your sending ip is mapped to your domain.Mailgun has a dope article on this https://www.mailgun.com/blog/domain-ip-reputation-gmail-care-more-about/ Mailgun claims that things like domain age, how the domain identifies across the web and whether it identifies with entertainment, advertising or finance industries can all impact your domain reputation. They believe domain reputation ultimately matters more to Google.Other suspected factors by rejoiner.comDomain reputation / Past behavior of the senderIf you’ve been sending heaving promo/spam offers through email to hundreds of thousands of people for x years, you’re bound to have a mountain of recipients that marked you as spam. So just because a subscriber is new, it doesn’t mean you start fresh. A lot of senders actually have a ton of baggage from previous sends. Google is quite clear about this: When messages from your domain are reported as spam, future messages are more likely to be delivered to the spam folder. Over time, many spam reports can lower your domain’s reputation.Gmail best practicesGoogle provides a list of best practices for sending to gmail users, it’s not overly helpful but it has some valuable tips. Aside from the obvious, don’t impersonate another company, don’t test phishing scams and make sure your domain is marked as safe, here’s 3 things Google recommends:Authentication: Allow Gmail to verify the sender by setting up reverse DNS (domain name). This means pointing your email sending IP addresses to your company domain. Small number of sending IPs: Google recommends you stick to just 1 sending IP. They add that if you must send from multiple IPs, use different IP addresses for different types of messages. Ie; one IP for blog, subscriber emails, one for important product updates, one for upsell and promo. I often hear email marketers say that if you are getting stuck in the promo tab, just start a fresh new sending IP. The problem there is that this is a short term benefit. If you don’t make changes to your domain, that new IP is still authenticated to the same source with the same baggage. I have heard anecdotely that using separate sending IPs for customers vs leads greatly helps. But I know companies that don’t use this well and still have solid metrics. Different senders: Along the same lines, Google encourages you to use a different ‘from sender’s for different types of emails and that you don't mix different types of content in the same emails. Ie, your purchase confirmation/new customer onboarding flow should be sent by [email protected] and never include subscriber or promotional content. Your promotional emails should be sent from [email protected]. So stick to as little sending IPs as possible, but switch up your sender for different types of emails. Domain authenticationThere’s different ways of setting up authentication for your sending IPs with Gmail. The process will be slightly different depending on your hosting provider and your ESP. There’s currently 3 main authentication methods to prevent email spoofing; aka spammers from sending emails that appear to be from your domain:SPF record (sender policy framework)DKIM keys (DomainKeys Identified Mail) DMARC record (Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Conformance)SPFPublish an SPF record for your domain. AKA Pointer (PTR) record. Every SPF has a single TXT file that specifies servers and domains that are allowed to send on behalf of your domain. You do this by uploading your updated TXT file on your domain provider s

In 2013, Google rolled out “A new inbox that puts you back in control” that allowed Gmail users to split incoming emails into different tabs. Today, 1 in 5 users enable the promos tab. It’s got a bad reputation: The promotions tab. Companies that send marketing emails are still trying to find ways out of the promos tab and into the primary tab. Here’s today’s main takeaway:Most companies should accept that their marketing emails are destined for the promos tab in Gmail. Instead they should focus on standing out from all the other newsletters. --and consider themselves lucky they aren’t in the spam folder. But there is good news. If your business is willing to radically change their HTML heavy templated email strategy in favor of a personal 1-1 text based strategy, brands can find a way into the primary tab.To get there, you need to get past two gates:The first gate is the spam filter and your reputation scores, the second gate is the category filter in Gmail and all the different signals that help classify incoming emails.In this two part episode we’ll walk you through the best ways to get past both of those gates.Gmail filter classification factorshttps://cloud.google.com/blog/products/gmail/how-gmail-sorts-your-email-based-on-your-preferences Google has said that Gmail’s classification system is pretty complex. It uses machine learning to choose which tab to put an email based on a bunch of factors.We’ll cover 4 main buckets over two episodes:1. Email content What’s in the emails, html, links, content types2. Personal actions Gmail says the most important factor in determining where an email lands in your inbox is your personal actions and preferences from that sender. 3. Sender rep The first factor they list is who the email is from. We’ll cover domain and IP reputation as well as authentication.4. Other things in your ESP that could help you reach the inbox1. Email contentThe default tabs/categoriesGmail has 5 default tabs/categories. They provide loose definitions for both, but the titles are pretty self explanatory. Primary, social, promos, updates and forums. Still though, businesses sending marketing emails will be asking how they can bypass the promos tab and get into the primary tab.Instead, businesses should accept that they live in the promos tab and they need to stand out from other newsletters and other onboarding emails. From the little bit we know about how Gmail classifies tabs, we can conclude that emails that land in the primary tab are:From people you know, not businessesNot from social network sites or forumsNot marketing or promotional based, not newsletters or CTA emailsNot notifications or updates or billsThat being said. There is room for marketing emails, or emails from brands in your primary inbox tab, if you treat that content from a brand like it was someone you knew and frequently communicated with. How? Use as little HTML as possible. Write like a person to a person. Instead of sending your email from [email protected], they send it from Brad. An actual person on their growth team.It doesn’t have a fancy HTML template with a bunch of images. It’s straight up, it’s funny, it’s helpful. It’s almost as if, despite working for a brand, this email came from someone you know.That’s how you get in the primary tab. Get your users to interact with your email.What are other content elements to keep in mind?We’ve talked about this one before, most gmail users treat email as a personal medium. Google knows if you’re sending an email with the words “discount” or “promotion” or if your html/image to text ratio is way too heavy html you’re destined for the promos tab, and without a major overhaul in your email strategy, you’re staying in that tab. Google recommends the obvious like, follow internet format standards, follow HTML standards, make sure users know where they’ll go when they click links, sender info should be clear, subject should be relevant, etc… But one thing lots overlook is how Gmail treats dynamic content/hidden content in emails.Don’t use HTML and CSS to hide content in your messages. Hiding content might cause messages to be marked as spam.Many ESPs offer “dynamic” or “personalized” content, meaning you can change the message based on the recipient. Sometimes ESP are simply using CSS and HTML to hide parts of a message.2. Personal actions Past behaviour of the recipientIf you haven’t opened someone’s newsletter for a while or you never clicked in an emailVs if you opened the first 3 emails and clicked on each and replied to 2 or you added the sender to your list of contacts Huge difference in signals to Gmail.Spam filter: Add to contact listThere’s really just 1 tip listed by Google currently on how to help prevent valid messages from being marked as spam or going to the promos tab:Messages that have a From address in the recipient’s Contacts list are less likely to be marked as spam. -> encourage new subscribers to add you as a contact in Gmail. Make it easy for

What’s up everyone, today on the show we are joined by another local favorite marketer, Manuel Bárcenas.She’s a personal growth enthusiast and a startup marketer on a mission to help managers & their teams work better together. By the age of 18, Manuela had lived in three different countries: Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru. In 2014, she decided it was time for a new challenge and moved to Canada. She’s a journalism and communications graduate of Carleton here in Ottawa. She caught the startup marketing bug pretty early interning with Startup Canada right out of school and then working as a community developer at Carleton University. In 2018, Manuela was marketing hire #1 at Fellow.app one of the hottest startups in Ottawa. She’s been living the startup marketing life for nearly 3 years.At Fellow, she helped launch the successful Supermanagers podcast, she runs a huge newsletter (Manager TLDR newsletter) and self taught Hubspot and Google Analytics and much more.Manuela is a rising star and a must follow on marketing Twitter, she tweets about mindset, marketing and management. Manuela, thanks so much for coming on the show.Early journeyWhen you started at Fellow as the first marketer, did you have any idea what you’d be doing? Bring us back in time to your first couple months at Fellow.What was/did you have a 'calling moment' for marketing tech / marketingWhat was your biggest hurdle(s) as a 1 person marketing team and how did you adjust as the team grewWhen you look at the t-shaped marketer today, where do you see your specialty and how that’s evolved in the last 3 yearsMarketing tech Your journey learning Hubspot and other tools The newsletter and the podcast. Talk to us about the engine behind the scenes and the growth of both of these huge projectsMiscTalk us through your journey of writing and learning about management and then becoming a manager yourself and now leading a teamWhat advice do you have for early marketers that want to become managers?We always end by asking how you balance everything in your life and how do you stay happy :)Some awesome tweets from Manuela:https://twitter.com/ManuelaBarcenas/status/1337155886545039362 https://twitter.com/ManuelaBarcenas/status/1395077830250225664 --Manuela on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuelabarcenas/ Manuela on Twitter: https://twitter.com/manuelabarcenas Fellow.app: https://fellow.app/Supermanagers Podcast: https://fellow.app/supermanagers/Fellow blog: https://fellow.app/blog/Manager TL;DR Newsletter: https://fellow.app/newsletter/✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

Experimentation lives at the center of growth marketing and it’s one of the best ways to explain how marketing combines art and science. Too much of today’s marketing is about attribution and data and reporting. We know that’s part of experimentation obviously, tracking lift on certain metrics. But the art side is really the idea generation part of experimentation. Trying things that not a lot of other folks are doing, going against the grain, trying crazy ideas. Isn't that what marketing is all about? Today’s main takeaway is: The most important part of designing experiments isn’t to have a single metric in mind or a rock solid hypothesis. It’s to create a knowledge base of insights from past experiments that everyone on your team can learn from. That’s what we’re calling sustainable experimentation.Sangram Vajre talks about 3 kinds of superpowers in marketing leaders:The doer; They make sure the world is running today in the best way possible. They get stuff done. People count on them to be operational.The driver; They can push projects through and assist with the process of securing buy-in from internal – and sometimes external – stakeholders.The dreamer; They are forward-thinkers who can help shake things up and come up with new suggestions. They spend time imagining the world we want to live in, the future. Bunch of ideas, but not always ability to focus and move those along.I’m wholeheartedly a dreamer. I spend my time digesting information, taking notes of cool ideas and keeping a swipe file of things to try.I don’t see growth marketers as scientists experimenting in a lab… I think of us as early adopters. We’ve talked about channel fatigue before and how eventually marketers ruin every new strategy and everything has diminishing returns.That’s why experimenting with new channels, new ideas is so so important.How to design an experimentGoal/objectiveAssumptions, supporting dataHypothesisImplementationReportingFirst things first, what’s your goal? When designing an experiment, I prefer having a single metric in mind, while still monitoring secondary metrics as well. For example, here’s an objective:Double the conversion rate of free trials to paid in the first 30 days from 2% to 4%.Next up is the hypothesis.Assumptions that back up your hypothesesBefore throwing out your hypothesis, it’s important to give as much context and supporting data for your hypothesis. For our free trial conversion rate objective for example, it’s important to have a complete understanding of user needs. In the free trial part of the funnel, users are still in the discover and try phase of their experience with your product.So in your hypothesis doc you could you can share supporting data that shows free trial users are more likely to convert to paid users if they have successfully experienced a series of key moments of delight. Hypothesis exampleFree trial signups who are segmented by activity and receive trigger based onboarding series–specific to what they’ve completed in the product–are more likely to achieve a series of moments of delight and are thus more likely to convert to paid than users who receive the current onboarding series.Implementation Each experiment should have a dependent variable (conversion rate of free trials to paid), and an independent variable (the onboarding email series). I also encourage folks to take a cohort approach to implementation. We split half the audience into a control group and a test group. The control group would continue to receive the current onboarding email series and the test group would be part of the experiment.In our example, we would split all signups into a test group and control group. The control group receives the current time based emails and our test group receives the new trigger behaviour emails in our experiment, and we compare conversion rates as well as monitor other metrics like product behaviours.Sharing insights across your teamI’ve used VWO in my past and love how they use some cool collaboration features.You can log observations from past experiments or data you’ve uncovered in other tools and log them into VWO. Eventually you could have a miny filterable db of observations that folks on your team can prioritize or sift through.These observations lead to hypotheses which are also a unique object in VWO. Before launching an experiment you need to first create a hypothesis, then link it to your experiment. After your experiment has run its course, the last object in VWO is Learnings, or insights. This is building a knowledge base of learnings from tests you’ve run so everyone is in the know.When you think of ideas in your company they all come and are stored in different places, word docs, project management backlogs, emails… VWO adds a bit of structure to everything that touches experimentation.✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

Hey everyone, today we are joined by one of the greatest minds in Marketing automation-- Pierce Ujjainwalla. Pierce started his career in lead gen at Cognos and IBM, working in some of the largest Salesforce and Eloqua instances in the world. He then spent a few years in startups leading teams that implemented instances of Marketo. Pierce has become a 4X Marketo champion and one of the first original champions, he’s also a frequent speaker at the annual Marketo Summit. In 2013, he founded RevenuePulse, known today as one of the top Marketo agencies in the world. He’s also the founder and CEO of Knak, an enterprise no-code email and landing page creation platform for marketers. He’s recently also become a podcast host, launching the Unsubscribed podcast. He lives in Ottawa, Canada with his wife and 2 kids. Fierce Pierce, it’s an honor to have you on the Humans of martech!--Here's what we covered:Creation of Knak -- what problem did you see in the market?Email design -- is it truly the most difficult coding challenge? Why is it so hard to solve? How is Knak’s approach to email difference and so compelling?Is no code the future of marketing? How can marketers prepare for this future? Creativity in marketing and how it is currently under attack?Email and landing page templates, and why they are dead? Drink your own champagne day at Knak. Unsubscribed podcastTalk to us about your process for booking guests on your show and your journey to becoming the Joe Rogan of Marketing podcasts. Knak pagesEarlier this year the team stepped out of just email land and entered the world of CRO and landing page building. Walk us through that big change in GTM strategy and how the new product adoption has gone so far?Knak released its annual email benchmarksTalk to us about the process of building that research and what we’re some of the coolest insights?HTML in emailsOne of the longest standing debates in email marketing is HTML vs plain text. With huge research studies done by Hubspot promoting less HTML in your emails and tools like convertkit that (used to anyway) have a strong stance against html templates.Knak is a no-code email builder. Are most of your customers designing heavy html emails and do you disagree with the stance of going plain text over html?Last questionPierce, you’re a founder and CEO, you run two companies, you’re a prominent martech figure but you’re also an avid traveller, you ski, golf, play hockey--you’re a lawn care nut and you have two amazing kids…How do you find a balance between everything going in your life and how do you remain happy?--Pierce on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pujjainwalla/Pierce on Twitter: https://twitter.com/marketing_101✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

Data, data everywhere! If this conjures up the green vertical parade of binary numbers from the Matrix, you’re not alone in being confused. You might be thinking -- I didn’t sign up for this! You didn’t go to school for statistical analysis, so what makes you qualified to produce a marketing report? There’s a lot that makes you qualified to produce reports, even if you don’t feel like an expert. Marketers, particularly in smaller companies, need to learn enough to be dangerous. The main takeaway for this episode: you need to incorporate reporting into your skillset, and it’s not as scary as you think.IntroWe both have a background working at an analytics companySo much hype around data over the years, whether it’s big or smallIt can be super intimidating thinking you need to be responsible for reporting, and it’s way too easy to overcomplicate thingsThe difference between analytics and reportingThe terms are used interchangeably so often that it’s hard to really understand the difference.I think that one way to think about reporting and analytics -- for reporting, you’ll almost always have a clear understanding on what you need to report on.Analytics, you’ll likely be exploring data and not always sure what you’ll find. This is where having a data analyst is useful -- they can look at a data set and tell you if an insight is relevant or meaningful. Performance and exploration. That’s how I see the difference between reporting and analytics. Most startups don’t have time to prioritize either. But in the venture backed startup world, comes a bit more process and a board of directors that ask for monthly/quarterly reporting updates. A really nice sweet spot for learning to become dangerous is a bootstrapped startup that doesn’t have a big data team or requirements for long tedious reporting processes. But regardless of the environment that you’re in, marketers need to learn these skills if for nothing else -- to be able to show their worth, their impact on key metrics. Every marketer needs some reporting skillsWhere the heck do you start with this skillset?Confusion of reporting and analytics has marketers overengineering solutions to some simple problems. No, you don’t need to learn R and statistical analysis to be effective at reportingThink of analytics as exploring data for unknown insights and buried treasure. We can think of reporting as being accountable for the things you get paid to do.Start there. All my marketing reporting comes back to the question: is what I’m doing making a difference? Reporting on anything else is purely intellectual.So this sounds simple right? Show your impact… Reality is that different marketers will have access to different tools and metrics. But as soon as you start talking about marketing reporting, you quickly get to attribution and then multi touch points and you get lost really easy in all the noise and options of reporting.How do you get to what’s important?This is the ultimate question, and where you as a marketer are incredibly importantThe absolute best data analysts on the planet are the best because they can tie all that data and insight back to business strategyYou need to be able to answer business questions with your reportingYou should start simple. The marketing funnel is the ideal starting point for understanding marketing reporting. Map each stage of the funnel to a marketing metric and then start to fill in the data.For example, Awareness is the total sum of impressions across advertising and social media and interest is all web sessions.Boom - you’re already starting to get somewhere. This is how nearly every marketer structures their reporting and strategy. Start at the top of the funnel and work your way to revenue.Yeah we had a full series on lifecycle, starting at episode 12, check that out. You don’t need to be able to report on end to end multi attribution from the start. Small steps. Conversion rates from one stage of the funnel to the next is an awesome starting point. Even just focusing on one slice of the funnel.Lifecycle reportingWe both know that getting to revenue data isn’t always that easySales and marketing systems often come loaded with data issues or caveats around the processImpressions and sessions are easy to get -- log in to Google Analytics, your digital ads platforms, etc, and throw those numbers togetherThings can get hairy when you start working with contacts, deals, and new customersThis is where lifecycle is so key. You need a set of common definitions to even start getting to reporting nirvana. If you and sales don’t agree on what constitutes an MQL, it’s going to be hard to be successful creating good reports. The lifecycle series goes super deep into how to set all this up.Lifecycle reporting is probably one of the most useful ways to report on marketing data. This is definitely high level reporting and should map to your strategy quite nicely. As you progress through each stage, you get a series of conversion rates and base

Shannon McCluskey is an analytical marketing leader at the top of her game counting 10+ years of martech experience with amazing SaaS companies.She works out of Vancouver but is originally from Ottawa, she’s got a Bcom from the UofO and a masters in digital technology from university of Waterloo.She got her early start in marketing and UX at Fluidware, an Ottawa based startup with the same founders that are now behind Fellow.appFluidware was later acquired by SurveyMonkey where Shannon went on to spend almost 3 years in marketing ops where she worked with some of the top Marketo experts in the world.She went on to run the remote Ops team at an HR SaaS called Visier for almost 4 years.Shannon is currently Marketing Ops Manager at Clio - a distributed cloud-based legal tech company and she’s building an awesome team with interesting open roles right now.She’s certified by Marketo, Salesforce and Demandbase. She’s spoken at top marketing conferences like the martech conference in San Jose.Shannon-- thanks for taking the time to chat with us today!- Your journey from Ottawa startup to Survey Monkey > Visier and now Clio - What's Clio and what does your team do, how do you market to lawyers - How a remote company of 600 people is run, how your MOPs team is run - What advice do you have for aspiring MOPs professionals? How do you know this path is right for you?- Are you getting lots of applications, what are your thoughts on the supply and demand of martech talen right now?- Describe the current role / pitch the opportunity on your team- Give us an example a project someone on your team would own, like a campaign a nurture, a data hygiene program or a compliance program - In the posting, the JT is specialist, but looking at the exp and the skills required, you’re considering both early marketers willing to learn at the same time as a more seasoned IC with MKTO + SFDC experience. How do you balance that, how do you pick?- The stack you're building with- You lead a team, you're a frequent speaker and a constant learner, you also have a busy personal life, you’re a mom working from home, how do you balance everything you have going on in your life to stay happy. --Shannon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannonmccluskeyThe Marketing Operations Specialist posting: https://boards.greenhouse.io/goclio/jobs/3142437 All job openings on Clio: https://boards.greenhouse.io/goclio ✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

Hey everyone, this is part 3 of 3 on marketing email audits. Whether you’re in-house or you’re consulting and want to offer email audits as a service, our hope is that you can level up your email game.In the last 2 episodes, we covered research tips and questions you should ask yourself before the audit and we also covered the actual audit and what to look for, tips and tactics. In today’s episode, we’ll cover what email improvements to suggest and experiment with, we’ll take a nice deep dive in behaviour-triggered emails.So you’ve dived into the user’s world, you’ve gone through all the emails and suggested improvements on the first emails and how to avoid selling too early. Now you want to figure out what you should suggest in terms of improvements.What are some of the highest impact experiments you’ve led? One spot I like to start is inactive users. When it comes to reactivating users, B2C can be very similar to B2B. B2C calls them abandoned cart emails, and they don’t have to be treated too differently in SaaS B2B, but it’s easy to do this wrong.Re-activating dormant usersBy day 3-4 of your onboarding sequence, it makes total sense to sell but probably only to users who have gotten started. 50-70% of free users have either left the product or are kicking the tires on several other options. We call these dormant or inactive users. They check you out really fast and give up. The majority of these are users you will never convert in the first place.But amongst this group of inactive users there's plenty who would convert if they get invited back into the product. The approach needs to be creative and helpful. We need to delight these inactive users, not sell them.The angle should rather be showcasing similar customers who have completed similar jobs to be done.Triggered-based behaviour emailsMost onboarding series are not tied to what users have completed so far in the product, it’s 100% time-based and not outcome-driven and assumes all users are ready to buy 15 minutes into their journey. Outcome driven trigger-based emails (instead of time), based on what users have completed and not completed in the product.Here’s how I’ve approached implementing this as an experiment:I would suggest starting with 3 main cohorts of users: DiscoverGetting startedUpgradeMost series push users quickly past steps 1 and 2 and hammers step 3 for many emails to follow. (1) DiscoverThe first activity cohort (Discover) is all about getting users to their first unit of value. For Convertkit, that might be importing your subscribers from Mailchimp, or maybe creating their first form. This is all about getting users to a quick win, browse all the different signup form options and connect it to your site. Instead of waiting 15 minutes before the next email, a triggered email could send after sign up form creation congratulating the user on connecting Convertkit to their site, reminding them how easy it is to swap forms and pushing them to the next cohort of users.If users who signup become inactive and are not able to create a signup form or do anything else after 15 minutes, it’s safe to assume we’ve lost these folks and instead of pushing them a discount or a promotion, we should be teasing them about existing customer signup pages, focusing on that first win. We need to re-activate these users before we worry about selling to them. Coordinate with the product team here for best results. What is the typical time to conversion event. Also, it is worth thinking about consequences and complexity of moving to an activated track or not.(2) Getting startedUsers enter the second activity cohort/group as soon as they complete their first unit of value. The stage is all about convincing users the product is the ideal solution and pushes them through the rest of the getting started steps. This is where email onboarding can help drive stickiness of the product by building/introducing habit-forming principles.Over time, this section can grow with multiple onboarding steps, but we could start with two simple steps like creating their first email draft or their email footer settings. (3) Upgrade to paid planNow that users have had a chance to try out the product and see parts of their brand in the product, we can start nudging them to upgrade benefits and features. Okay so all 3 of those could be lists in your automation tool. Smart lists or dynamic lists, they update as soon as someone completes an action in the product. Yeah so let’s illustrate this. We have our 5 lists right?SignupsImported subscribersCreated a formConnected form to siteCreated broadcast draftUser signs up, they get a confirmation email. As soon as they click that, send the Welcome email. So far, no segmentation.Next wait step triggers when the user enters our second list, the getting started list. This is when users have imported their subscribers in Convertkit. So we can wait until the user enters our second list, as soon as they do, they get a congratulatory email pushing

Hey everyone, this is part 2 of 3 on marketing email audits. Whether you’re in-house or you’re consulting and want to offer email audits as a service, our hope is that you can level up your email game.In the last episode, we covered research tips and questions you should ask yourself before the audit. In today’s episode, we’ll cover the actual audit and what to look for, tips and tactics. Next week, our last episode of the series will cover what email improvements to suggest and experiment with.Alright JT, let’s get to it. There’s three crucial things I want to make sure we cover today as part of any email audit.A theme that you’ll hear throughout today’s episode is timing your emails around your user’s journey, and not selling too early or to users that aren’t ready to buy. But let's start with the confirmation email and the welcome email. Regardless of what you're auditing, those will be part of the starting journey for all new users right?Confirmation emailDepending on the scope of your audit you need to decide if you’re going to audit individual emails or more high level improvements. I prefer the former. I go email by email, not starting with the Welcome email but the confirmation email. That’s really the first email touch point. We want to maximise the chances that this email reaches the inbox. To do that we want to keep it short and simple with a single CTA, confirm your email. We don’t want too many images or text or links. We need this to land in the inbox and get through most spam filters.Such a balance of beautiful design and impact versus sneaking past email filters. Too much HTML gets caught.Welcome emailWe had a full episode dedicated to really making this email stand out, and that’s the core goal of this email. Everyone expects it. Most companies have a huge fancy HTML template with heavy brand and a bunch of helpful resources and links to get started.The danger with overloading users too soonSomething that lives rent free in my brain when I think email onboarding is Val Geisler’s dinner party strategy. When you host people over for a dinner party--be it a backyard BBQ or a fancy social event, the evening itself has many tracks. You welcome guests, Take their coats, introduce them to othersYou take their drinks order and show them to a seatthere’s the appetizer round, a main course, side dishes, and dessert, and then you invite them back. If the Welcome email has 10+ links to tutorials and courses and help articles, it’s almost like your guest’s arrive to your house for the dinner party and before they can take their coats off you shove the main course sprinkled with dessert in their face. I like this dinner guest analogy a lot. I think it's also a lot about coordinating with product. Combined, you set the ambience. The smell of food, the setting, the dress code -- email needs to blend in to the decorum. Seeing how the product<>email experience jive is a big opportunity.Instead of overwhelming users with links, Welcome emails are great starting points to train users to open the next emails. This can be done with storytelling and standing out. We should be training users to open our next email and pushing them to 1 specific moment of delight back in the product. Consider a stronger CTA to push users to finish their onboarding. They could try "Add your first subscriber" or "build your first landing page" instead of "Log in".There's an opportunity to tell the Convertkit story instead of just welcoming them to the family. Users starting an email tool are also trialing competitors. So they are getting similar emails. Selling too earlyEarly in the journey we want to nudge users to complete steps in the product that nudge them to moments of delight and getting value from the product. You don’t want to turn off users and start selling to everyone, especially not users that haven’t done much in the product yet. The best way to get users to upgrade to a paid plan is to let them try the product and reach success. Instead of talking about the benefits of upgrading to a paid plan right away, we should be telling users how and why Convertkit is their best choice.We want to be delighting the user and making sure they are accomplishing tasks in the product. Working on the user's timeline rather than asking them to upgrade right away. Mindlessly forcing people through a user journey is bad. The idea that you need to be everything to everyone is equally bad. Segmentation is key, behaviour based triggered emails are also key. That’s actually part 3/3 of our series. We covered what to do before the audit in part 1, part 2 was the actual audit and the most important aspects of the first two emails in your sequence and part 3 next week is what you should be suggesting as part of improvements. We’ll specifically be touching on segmentation and behaviour based triggered emails. Chat then.✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw