“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

Chris Yeh – author, venture partner, and co-writer of Blitzscaling (with Reid Hoffman) – shares insights from his multifaceted career as a Silicon Valley insider. Yeh discusses staying relevant in tech, the necessary skill of unlearning, and why traveling with potential partners might be the best way to assess compatibility. Yeh gives our listeners a masterclass in adaptability and authentic leadership.Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH CHRIS, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINChris: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisyehNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—RELATED LINKS:* Infinite Learning - Why Unlearning Is The Critical Learning Skill | Chris Yeh | TEDxGrandviewHeights* The Lightning-Fast Path to Building Massively Valuable Companies: https://www.blitzscaling.com/TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (01:20) Chris's Palpable Energy (02:54) Passion vs Skill (04:08) Charisma in Leadership (08:09) Unlearning Old Things (14:29) Sponsor: Metaview(15:41) Writing a Book with Reid Hoffman (23:57) Picking and Prioritizing Projects(24:58) Staying Relevant (27:15) Blitzscaling: Adaptability & Resilience (32:21) What Would Chris Take Back from Blitzscaling? (37:01) Picking Companies as an Employee (40:25) Assessing a Founder (43:15) Bias in Assessments (45:16) Negotiating Founder Shares (51:55) Choosing Principles over Numbers (51:55) Offer Package Hack (53:28) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Tired of hearing "HR needs to be more business-focused" without any real direction? In this episode, Kelli and Nolan cut through the noise with actionable insights from veteran CPO Jeff Diana. Learn why joining sales calls, understanding your P&L, and getting your hands dirty in customer support might be your secret weapons. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH JEFF, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINJeff: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-diana-a1906212/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:14) HR is a Business Function: Action vs. Rhetoric(02:09) The Business-First Approach Do's and Don'ts(04:19) Fostering a Deeper Understanding of the Business(06:01) Product Certification and Experiential Learning(06:57) Understanding a Founder's Emotional Investment (even if it seems irrational)(08:52) Knowing the Numbers(13:14) Strategic Time Investment and Knowledge Acquisition(15:56) Including Customer Success in Knowledge Gathering(16:18) Sponsor: Metaview(17:38) Internal Reviews and Cross-Functional Collaboration(19:01) Internal Best Practices and Efficiency(20:47) Growing Fluidity Between HR and other Business Functions(21:14) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Ever wonder what happens when HR leaders get real about C-suite scrutiny? Join Kelli, Nolan and friend of the podcast, Colleen McCreary, as they spill the tea on transforming those dreaded "show me the numbers" moments into power moves. Turns out, the secret sauce isn't hiding from spreadsheets—it's owning them with style.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:14) Increasing Scrutiny of HR budgets from CEOs, CFOs, and Board Members(01:50) Stakeholder Management and Proactive Planning(04:42) Assume Good Intent and Take Ownership(06:35) Earned Trust and Common Experience(08:05) Sponsor: Metaview(09:12) New Roles and Re-establishing Credibility and the CFOs Perspective(10:36) Advice and Next Steps(12:07) Closing and Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

From pioneering parental leave strategies to 3 AM workout sessions, Warner Bros Discovery's SVP of People Donald Knight reveals how vulnerability, authenticity, and physical discipline shape exceptional leadership. Donald joins Kelli and Nolan in a candid conversation about evolving HR, squandered DEI opportunities, and building lasting relationships in hyper-growth environments.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsRECOMMENDED PODCAST:🎙️ Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more._KEEP UP WITH DIDIER, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donaldfknight/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (00:39) Donald's initial reluctance to join HR and his perspective shift (02:32) Evolution of the HR profession (04:06) Pushback against employee-centric HR practices (07:22) The "war for talent" and its aftermath (10:53) The focus on immutable traits in diversity initiatives (14:05) Sponsor: Metaview (15:17) Importance of company stances and differentiation (19:15) Donald's paternity leave plan and its impact (25:35) The recruiting process and its unexpected outcomes (32:45) Donald's experience working with founders (39:50) Donald's favorite interview questions and their rationale (44:30) Donald's fitness journey and its importance (49:20) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Didier Elzinga, Culture Amp's CEO, drops bombshell insights about why most leaders get growth wrong, reveals shocking data about manager vs. leader impact, and explains why treating feedback like an all-you-can-eat menu is destroying companies. Didier sits down with Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church for a conversation about company culture, data, and mapping the world of work on two axes—trust versus mission.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsRECOMMENDED PODCAST:🎙️ Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more._KEEP UP WITH DIDIER, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINDidier: https://www.linkedin.com/in/didierelzingaNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:50) From Harry Potter to CultureAmp CEO (04:51) CultureAmp in the Film Industry & Anonymous Feedback (08:40) Culture-First Companies & the Importance of Resilience (13:24) Current Trends in Employee Engagement & Expectations (15:12) Sponsor: Metaview(16:24) The Future of Employer-Employee Relationships (19:20) Enduring Truths in Culture & Growth (21:13) Growth, Ambiguity, and Leadership (23:54) Data-Driven Insights & Addressing Gender Gaps (27:20) The Director to VP Transition & Hard Lessons (31:45) Influencing Change & the Power of Data (33:55) The Value & Limitations of Engagement Surveys (37:45) Defining Strategy & the Feedback "Workout" (39:01) CultureAmp's Non-Negotiables & Growth (43:07) The Power of Storytelling & Authenticity(46:32) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

How do you navigate a founding CTO's transition when they're struggling to scale? Kelli and Nolan share hard-won wisdom on avoiding common pitfalls: don't rush to judgment, build trust first, and respect the deep bonds between founders. Instead of plotting replacements, focus on supporting growth - and remember that even the best transitions happen through relationships, not force.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:52) Avoid Premature Judgments(04:43) Nuance and Relationship Building(07:43) Sponsor Message: Metaview(08:55) Further Discussion: Investing in Existing Leadership(11:25) Additional Insights: Truth and Trust(13:02) The Risk of Premature Action(14:23) Summary and Emotional Dynamics(14:46) Board Involvement and Conclusion(15:37) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Melanie Naranjo, Chief People Officer at Ethena, joins Kelli and Nolan to tackle the surge in employee litigation facing modern companies. In an era where employees are increasingly using legal terms like 'discrimination' and 'retaliation,' how can companies balance protecting themselves from frivolous lawsuits while ensuring legitimate grievances are properly addressed?Explore how social media, changing workplace expectations, and generational shifts are fueling this trend, while offering practical insights on navigating these challenges. The conversation balances protecting employee rights with managing unfounded claims, providing valuable perspectives for HR professionals and business leaders trying to build fair, transparent workplaces.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH MELANIE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINMelanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-naranjo/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:10) Rising Employee Litigation(03:25) Traditional & Contrarian Responses(06:10) Deeper Issues & Lack of Transparency(07:30) Subjectivity & Company Liability(09:30) Litigation as a Trend & Setting Expectations(11:40) Employee Perspective & Open Dialogue(15:40) Company Burden & Employee Expectations(15:43) Sponsor: Metaview(18:10) Clear Expectations & Self-Selection(21:40) Internal Training & Consistency(23:20) Value of Community & Legal Counsel(26:10) Key Takeaways & The Bambi Golden Rule(28:08) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today Kelli and Nolan tackle a real-world HR career challenge: a candidate who received feedback that while they could handle their current role, the hiring manager was unsure about their ability to scale with company growth.Drawing from their extensive backgrounds in recruiting and HR leadership, they help listeners navigate everything from interview feedback to career growth, offering insider perspectives that challenge traditional HR thinking and empower professionals to take control of their career narrative.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (01:00) Dear Heretics Question - Scaling HR (02:45) Understanding Hiring Manager Requirements (04:24) Focus on Aptitude and Mindset (04:58) Recruiters' Current Challenges (06:13) Anticipate Feedback and Be Proactive (07:00) Highlight Strengths and Address Gaps (07:35) Proactive Preparation for Interviews (08:22) "Show Up With A Solution" (08:40) Sponsor: Metaview (09:52) Value of HRBP Experience (10:47) Don't Underestimate Your Experience (11:02) Narrative is Key (11:25) HR and Sales Parallels (11:46) Focus on Personal Narrative (12:13) Gain Experience Inside Your Company (13:36) Turn Feedback into Growth (14:05) Architect Your Own Experience (14:18) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

How do you lead product when your CEO is the product visionary? Pendo's Chief Product Officer Trisha Price reveals the delicate dance of setting boundaries with founder-CEOs, the evolution of HR from gatekeeper to strategic partner, and why she uses AI to write letters to her 102-year-old grandmother. A candid conversation about power, trust, and the changing face of tech leadership.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH CIARA, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINTrisha: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trisha-price-3063081/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Pendo: https://www.pendo.io/—TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:20) Navigating a Founder-CEO, Product Guru Dynamic (03:00) Establishing Boundaries and Trust(06:40) The Importance of a Lengthy Recruiting Process (09:40) Assessing Product Leaders (14:40) Managing Stakeholder Input and AI Pressure (17:50) Managing the Tension Between Sales and Product (20:10) Navigating the AI Hype Cycle (24:20) Tricia's Personal Use of AI (26:40) Emerging Female Executives in Tech (30:40) The Future of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DE&I) (36:00) The Evolution of HR and the "Department of No" (40:50) Working with a Great HR Leader (43:40) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On Election Day 2024, Nolan and Kelli examine how to navigate an increasingly polarized workplace during a contentious election. They discuss the decline of 'presidential' discourse, the impact of social media on political rhetoric, and practical strategies for business leaders managing divided teams. Their candid conversation offers insights on maintaining professionalism and unity when half the country faces inevitable disappointment.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (00:13) The Election and Preparing for a Divisive Outcome (04:00) Supporting the Winner (05:10) Homogeneous Support and the Undoing of Progress (08:12) Sponsor: Metaview (09:35) Social Media and Mental Health (10:20) The Addiction of Election Results (11:25) The Importance of Routine and Mental Health (12:20) TikTok and Chaos (12:21) Confusing Voting Laws (12:53) Historical Context and Election Integrity (14:00) Navigating a Divided Workplace (14:25) Setting Expectations Before the Election (18:04) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Former Dashlane HR leader Ciara Lakhani shares her unfiltered journey from New York to Paris tech, debunking myths about French business culture while revealing the art of cross-cultural leadership. From smoke breaks with works councils to earning trust through authenticity, Ciara offers practical wisdom on navigating international business dynamics and building bridges between American and French work cultures. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccessSupport HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH CIARA, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINCiara: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ciaralakhani/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Elevate People:https://elevatepeople.io/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (01:50) Ciara's move to Paris in 2020 (04:54) Challenges of being an HR exec in another country (05:53) Stereotype against French HR people (07:08) Communication style in France (08:30) Assimilating with French HR professionals (10:30) Generalizations about France (11:45) Learning the nuances of French labor laws (13:35) Navigating HR in different countries (15:18) Sponsor: Metaview(17:18) Punitive government in France (18:39) Being a translator in HR (19:50) Working with lawyers (20:45) Org politics in France (23:04) Unpacking the co-founder story (23:50) Org navigation and politics in Paris (27:30) Earning trust in a new culture (29:50) French tactics and meeting people where they are (30:00) Ciara's transition to being independent (31:38) Assimilating into French culture (33:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this segment of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan discuss "empty suit executives" – a term coined by product leader Tyler Hogge, highlighting executives who manage from above but scoff at doing the work themselves.Is the era of the status-seeking executive dead? Explore how AI, increased competition, and evolving workplace culture are killing the 'empty suit' leader. From Silicon Valley's trenches to corporate boardrooms, discover why authenticity is replacing authority, and why rolling up your sleeves might be the new key to power in modern business.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S:The Empty Suit Executive by Tyler Hoggehttps://tylerhogge.com/2024/10/16/the-empty-suit-executive/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (00:29) The Empty Suit Executive (03:43) Shift in Management Styles and the Rise of Doers (05:34) Clash Between Founders and "Empty Suit" Executives (06:17) The Changing Dynamics of Large Tech Companies (07:17) Venture-Backed Companies as a Bellwether (09:00) Sponsor: MetaView (10:06) Recognizing Our Own "Empty Suit" Tendencies (11:30) Building a Brand and Leading by Example (12:40) New Era of Leadership (13:30) Adaptability in a Competitive Landscape (14:04) The Rise of AI (14:36) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode, Nolan and Kelli talks with Silicon Valley prodigy turned seasoned operator and former Google director Jared Fliesler.From revolutionizing feedback systems to challenging the "founder mode" hype, Jared shares raw insights from his journey as Silicon Valley's youngest executive. But that's just the beginning – he also unveils the psychological trap keeping high achievers perpetually unfulfilled (hint: it's not what you think), and shares the counterintuitive secret to genuine satisfaction. Whether you're a startup founder, HR leader, or ambitious professional, this episode will fundamentally change how you think about performance, leadership, and success. Warning: your perspective on workplace traditions will never be the same.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network:https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH JARED, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINJared: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredsf/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:First Call Coaching:https://www.firstcall.co/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(00:59) Radical Performance Review Process (06:18) Getting the CEO on Board(08:48) People Operations as Core Business(10:20) The Move Away from Performance Reviews(10:50) Feedback Systems for Introverts(12:07) The Semantics of Performance Reviews(12:48) Experimenting with Performance Reviews(13:52) Founder Mode(19:18) Sponsor: Metaview(20:10) Copy-pasting Culture Decks(20:54) Revolt Against Traditional Management(21:46) Fandiger Mounder(22:16) Treating People Like Wrists(24:14) Being the Youngest Person in the Room(27:37) The Importance of EQ(28:42) Layoff Experience(30:35) The Ego Trap(32:38) Founder Coaching(33:03) Jared's Coaching Practice(37:21) Hiring and Firing in Hyper Growth(37:54) Hire With Speed, Fire with Respect(42:00) The Cost of PIPs(43:04) The Importance of Respect(43:52) The Hedonic Treadmill(48:06) Gratitude as the Antidote(48:22) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this candid episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan dive deep into workplace burnout and share vulnerable insights on maintaining resilience in high-pressure roles.From conquering impostor syndrome to escaping the corporate echo chamber, they offer practical strategies—like daily routines, nature walks, and building authentic relationships—while reminding leaders that it's okay not to have all the answers.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:20) Practical Approaches to Reducing Burnout01:48) Key Insights on Managing Professional Burnout(05:01) A Perspective on Failure(07:14) Confronting Negative Self-Talk in High-Pressure Roles(08:36) Sponsor: Metaview(09:48) Importance of Saying "I Don't Know"(10:17) Finding Balance: Avoiding Professional Extremes(12:53) Breaking Free from the Corporate Echo Chamber(14:08) The Signifiance of Strong Relationships(15:13) Sharing and Collaboration(16:34) The Tangible Nature of Energy(17:07) Understanding Energy's Impact in the Workplace(18:17) Gaining Fresh Perspectives Through History & Experience(19:00) Practicing Gratitude in Professional Life(20:09) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Peter Walker, Head of Insights at Carta, joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich for a round 2 discussion to talk about the hidden currents reshaping the startup world.From the brutal reality of today's hiring landscape to the unexpected reasons top companies avoid IPOs, Walker challenges conventional wisdom, exploring how the "Big Stay" phenomenon and emerging equity models are redefining employee-company relationships. With startling data on fund performance and company shutdowns, this conversation poses a provocative question: Are we witnessing the end of the startup golden age, or the birth of a new, leaner ecosystem?*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network:https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH PETER, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINPeter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterjameswalker/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Carta:https://carta.com/data/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:29) Hiring Market Remains Brutal(05:06) Tenure Correlation in Layoffs(10:08) The "Big Stay"(10:15) Sponsor: Metaview(11:27) Venture Ecosystem Driven by Investor Returns(15:34) M&A Activity is Rising(17:22) Emerging Fund Managers Under Pressure(19:37) Employee Compensation Trends(21:16) Company Valuations(25:13) Dissonance Between IPO Market and Public Market Performance(29:14) Series A and Beyond Round Activity(32:05) Resetting Expectations in Venture(37:38) Emerging Models for Employee Equity(40:23) Equity Returning to the Pool(42:16) The 90-Day Exercise Window(43:48) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In a world where AI blurs the line between genuine skill and digital deception, HR professionals face an ethical minefield. As candidates leverage AI to cheat interviews and fake applicants infiltrate tech companies, the very fabric of recruitment is being tested. Kelli and Nolan explore the unsettling convergence of technology and human ambition, challenging us to redefine trust, authenticity, and competence in the modern workplace.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Candidates Cheating on Interviews with AI(02:40) Interviewing is High Stakes(04:07) AI is Getting Better(05:21) AI Native Candidates(06:49) The Importance of Human Qualities(7:44) Sponsor: Metaview(08:56) Quality Over Quantity(10:18) Referrals and Bias(11:04) Soft Skills Are Hard to Replace(11:17) Fake Candidates(12:43) The Need for Verification(13:36) Poor Recruiting Practices(14:02) Proof of Personhood(14:32) A Chasm of Technology(15:15) Expect the Unexpected(16:02) Awareness is the First Step(16:19) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Seasoned executive recruiter and venture capitalist Andy Price joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich for an inside-the-room look at the intricate dance of hiring, retaining, and evolving top-tier talent. Andy has assembled leadership teams for companies like Snowflake, DocuSign, Confluent, Amplitude, and ServiceNow.From the critical role of empathy in leadership transitions to the long-term value of investing in talent development, Price's insights challenge listeners preconcieved notions about hiring and maintaining world-class execs. This episode is a compelling exploration of how the right people, in the right roles, with the right support, can transform good companies into great ones. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network:https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH ANDY, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINAndy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyprice1/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Artisanal Ventures:https://artisanalv.com/—TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:39)Why is the hit rate for execs so low? (03:47) How to mitigate a bad executive outcome (04:18) The Artisanal process to mitigate a bad outcome (07:44) Back channels in executive recruiting (11:05) When should a CEO back channel? (12:40) How many back channels are too many? (14:00) Dealing with personality fit issues after hiring an exec (16:34) Sponsor: Metaview (17:46) The importance of onboarding and post-hire support (18:47) How to vet search firms (22:37) Name-dropping in executive recruiting (25:13) Founders trying to run searches on their own (29:05) The importance of staying close with search firms (30:13) Hiring for experience vs. trajectory (34:16) The importance of orchestration in executive transitions (35:40) The role of ego in executive transitions (36:13) Involvement of layered executives in the interview process (38:53) Setting expectations for layered executives (39:22) The importance of studying successful executive transitions (40:40) How to help up-and-comers scale (43:03) The importance of advisors and coaches (45:36) Executive career management (48:43) Executive tenure and the importance of grit (51:17) Importance of doing meaningful work before seeking new roles (51:55) Importance of authenticity in the executive world (52:38) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

As tech giants like Microsoft dismantle DEI teams, this segment probes the industry's true commitment to diversity. Are we witnessing the death of corporate DEI or its evolution? Kelli and Nolan dissect the disconnect between lofty promises and marginal progress, questioning whether current approaches are effective, and challenge listeners to envision a "Chapter Two" for DEI—one that prioritizes authentic inclusion over mere metrics.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network:https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:20) Microsoft Fires DEI Team: A Growing Trend in Tech(01:01) Conflicting Messages: Microsoft's DEI Stance Analyzed(03:16) Evaluating DEI Tactics: A Decade in Review(04:26) Early Intervention: Google's Approach to Long-Term DEI(05:42) The Missing Piece: Lack of Alternative DEI Strategies(07:28) Questioning Tech's DEI Commitment(08:10) Recognizing DEI's Cultural Impact(09:40) Chapter Two of DEI: Hoping for Creative New Approaches(10:32) Sponsor: Metaview(11:43) Progress in Workplace Inclusivity(13:35) Rethinking DEI Implementation(14:10) Leading the Way in DEI Innovation(15:31) The Need for Qualitative DEI Measures(16:15) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, dive into the world of HashiCorp's HR innovation with Christine Centa, as she unveils the challenges of scaling a remote-first culture, navigating post-IPO transitions, and embracing AI in recruiting. Discover with Kelli, Nolan and Christine how transparency, data-driven decisions, and a willingness to swear occasionally are reshaping modern tech workplaces.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network:https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH CHRISTINE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINChristine: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christine-centa-0a809b7/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Hashicorp:https://www.hashicorp.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:59) Christine's Approach to HR and Compensation Trends(03:40) Compensation and Equity in a Macroeconomic Environment(07:12) The Importance of Recruiter Feedback(07:35) Compensation and Internal Equity(10:49) The Challenges of Changing Equity Plans(11:30) The Trade-Offs of One-Year Grants (12:27) Balancing Retention and Performance (12:37) Stepped Approaches to Equity Grants(15:57) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview(18:02) The Importance of Transparency and Frequent Check-Ins(18:52) Predicting Attrition and Hiring(19:57) The Shift to Publicly Traded HashiCorp(20:08) Scaling Processes and Maintaining Culture(23:25) The Remote Work Debate(31:34) Championing Successes and Addressing Concerns(35:15) AI Strategy in HR and the Challenges of AI Deployment (37:16) AI in Recruiting(40:15) Candidate Adaptability to AI(42:58) The Hidden Work of AI Deployment (43:06) The Emerging Role of AI Specialists(43:59) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

This HR Heretics segment dives headfirst into the controversy surrounding Mr. Beast's leaked 36-page employee manual.Join Kelli, Nolan and friend of the podcast, Colleen McCreary, as as they unpack this viral document that's part survival guide, part corporate manifesto, with a dash of unapologetic ambition. Is it a brilliantly authentic approach to leadership or a recipe for workplace burnout?*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH COLLEEN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINColleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenmccrearychiefpplofficer/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:18) Mr. Beast's leaked document(03:58) Praising clarity in workplace expectations(05:06) Discussing document accessibility (07:04) Authenticity in company culture(09:10) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(11:13) Speculating on the document's origins(13:02) Learning from negative experiences(13:57) Authenticity in leadership(16:13) The role of authenticity in attracting talent(20:53) Balancing critique with appreciation for clarity(21:42) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

This episode of HR Heretics dives into the treacherous waters of giving feedback to friends without capsizing relationships.Candid feedback or comfortable silence? Kelli and Nolan dissect the art of critiquing colleagues, challenging listeners to reconsider their approach to workplace honesty. Discover why your ego might be your own worst enemy, and learn how to transform awkward conversations into opportunities for growth.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—BOOK MENTIONED:"Ego is the Enemy" by Ryan Holiday:https://www.amazon.com/Ego-Enemy-Ryan-Holiday/dp/1591847818—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(01:14) A Real-World Example: Kelli's Feedback to Nolan(02:27) Nolan's Response: The Importance of Inquiry(04:56) Building Relationships Through Honest Communication(06:36) Ego as a Barrier to Effective Feedback(07:34) Challenging Perceptions: The Curious Leader(08:46) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview(10:50) Learning from Blunt Feedback: Nolan's Robot Story(13:36) Using Humor to Ease Feedback Conversations(14:31) Overcoming Perfectionism and Job Security Fears(15:44) Reframing Feedback: Alternative Conversation Starters(16:42) The Golden Rule of Feedback: Reciprocity in Communication(17:58) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Amazon CEO Andy Jassy announces return to office policy, sparking debate on workplace culture and employee expectations in tech industry.Will Amazon's RTO policy lead to increased employee turnover and a decline in morale? Listen as Kelli and Nolan explore the implications of these changes on workplace culture, employee expectations, and the broader business landscape.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—RELATED EPISODE:Everyone’s Talking About Founder Mode—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS(00:20) Andy Jassy's Letter on Culture (01:50) Two Big Changes at Amazon (03:00) Amazon's Employee Growth(04:40) Innovation and In-Person Work (05:10) Trade-offs of Remote Work(06:00) Clarity in RTO Communications(07:56) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:10) Exceptions to RTO Policy(11:40) Top Performers and Exceptions (13:20) Business Reality vs Expectations This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Thinking of swiping right on a colleague? Find out with Kelli and Nolan if workplace romance is worth the potential awkward elevator rides and why mixing power and passion is a recipe for corporate disaster.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS(00:00) Intro(01:16) Workplace Relationships(03:01) Why Dating Within Reporting Chain is Improper(05:17) Company Policies on Office Relationships(09:15) Hypothetical: CEO Dating a Junior Employee(09:33) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview(13:31) Leaders Dating Employees from Different Departments(16:18) Disclosing Relationships Between Colleagues(18:29) Handling Unwanted Advances from Coworkers(19:02) The One-Ask Rule(20:04) Codifying Relationship Policies(21:38) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

You've got your daily team, the folks you work with every day, but then there's the executive squad. Patrick Lencioni’s "Five Dysfunctions of a Team" says that should be your true loyalty, but how does that translate into practice? Nolan and Kelli talk about navigating those tricky waters and avoiding toxic team vibes when the big boss throws down some tough choices.Explore how HR pros can keep things from blowing up when the executive team calls the shots. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—RELATED BOOK:The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick M. Lencionihttps://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) The "First Team" Concept (01:09) Balancing Executive and Functional Teams (03:07) Importance of Organizational Alignment (05:58) Handling Team Disagreements with Executive Decisions (07:58) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:02) Avoiding Toxic Leadership Behaviors (11:44) Explaining Decisions to Teams (13:52) Value of Transparency in Leadership (15:11) Addressing Team Members' Concerns (17:01) Managing Team Turnover and Succession Planning (18:06) Preventing and Addressing Team Toxicity(18:36) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Is context switching hurting your HR productivity? Kelli and Nolan talk about how leaders effectively navigate multiple roles and explore practical techniques for maximizing productivity in HR to build an adaptable team.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—RELATED:Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:39) Challenges of Multiple Roles(01:45) Navigating Different Relationships(03:14) Setting Boundaries in Conversations(04:49) Balancing Work and Personal Life(05:36) Building a Strong, Adaptable Team(07:52) Maximizing Meeting Effectiveness(08:50) Prioritizing Tasks and Self-Care(09:00) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:36) Reducing Digital Distractions(11:33) Better Meetings(12:14) The Power of Phone Calls(14:33) Walking and Talking(15:45) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

US white-collar promotions are down 24% in Q1 2024, with a near 50% drop since 2022. What does this mean for employees and the job market?Kelli and Nolan discuss causes, including pandemic effects and company restructuring, and talk about strategies for retention and career growth in a restructured, doer-focused workplaces.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK:Report: Promotions disappeared in Q1 2024—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction and Welcome (00:16) Promotion Data Analysis (01:15) Discussion on Promotion Trends (03:49) Impact of Economic Changes on Promotions (06:39) Future of Job Market and AI (07:50) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(09:55) Continued Discussion on AI and Job Market (16:27) Final Thoughts and Advice (16:43) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Guissu Baier, a talent expert at General Catalyst who navigated the treacherous waters of startup equity compensation at Instacart, joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich challenging conventional wisdom about refresh grants, and revealing that most companies lack a clear strategy.Is it time to ditch the old-school "wait and see" approach and embrace a more performance-driven model?Listen to Guissu, Kelli and Nolan as they offer insights into how to bridge the gap and foster collaboration between legal and HR teams.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH GUISSU, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINGuissu: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guissu/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:General Catalyst: https://www.generalcatalyst.com/General Catalyst's Equity Refresh Survey:https://www.generalcatalyst.com/perspectives/equity-refresh-survey-2024Related Podcast:How Big Should Your Org Growhttps://hrheretics.substack.com/p/how-big-should-your-org-grow—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Key Findings of the Equity Refresh Survey(06:03) Treating Equity as Carefully as Cash(07:11) Vesting Schedules and Equity as a Long-Term Incentive(08:23) The Debate on Vesting Cliffs in Refresh Grants(09:46)The Logic and Challenges of Refresh Grants(11:43) The Importance of Paying for Performance(14:34) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(16:40) Challenges in Designing Equity Refresh Programs(19:07) Different Approaches to Refresh Grants(25:24) Retaining Top Performers(28:51) Connecting New Hire and Refresh Ranges(29:25) Equity Choice and Fairness(30:49) Equity Trade-Offs and Innovation(32:57) Collaboration between HR and Other Departments(37:11) Facilitation as a Key Skill for HR Leaders(40:28) Branding and Executive Involvement in Training(43:30) The Reputation of Lawyers in the HR Profession(44:54) Risk Calculus and Cultural Risk(46:02) Communication as a Key to Problem Solving(47:37) One-Way Door and Two-Way Door Decisions(47:55) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich talk about ‘Founder Mode’ a concept coined by YC founder Paul Graham in a recent essay — based on a talk by Brian Chesky, founder of Airbnb. They discuss how founders feel gaslit by advice to delegate without micromanaging, and that the right approach IS a ruthlessly hands-on approach. The hosts explore the tension founders face between maintaining control and trusting hires, emphasizing the need for empathy. This is a sign that the paradigm is shifting, and all business leaders need to adjust.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—LINK:Founder Mode https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) What is Founder Mode?(03:59) Empathy for Founders(04:54) The Role of Executives and Operators(07:19) Blending Founder and Manager Mindsets(09:56) Defensiveness and Personal Growth(11:45) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(13:50) Kelli’s Best Take Ever? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Dr. Vijay Pendakur, DEI expert, author, and principal and founder of Vijay Pendakur Consulting, joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich to discuss the current pushback against DEI, the future of the movement, and how companies can find success in a shifting landscape. How can companies foster inclusion while avoiding divisiveness and proving business value? Vijay, Kelli and Nolan candidly discuss the future of corporate diversity initiatives amid pushback and the search for measurable ROI, and exchange ideas for how to evolve diversity initiatives for impact.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).KEEP UP WITH VIJAY, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINVijay: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vijaypendakurNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:“Closing the Opportunity Gap” https://www.amazon.com/Closing-Opportunity-Gap-Identity-Conscious-Strategies/dp/1620363127 Watch out for “The Alchemy of Talent: Leading Teams to Peak Performance” available for pre-order: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Talent-Leading-Teams-Performance/dp/B0DCHB9RYZ/ref=sr[…]d=1724904614&refinements=p_27%3AVijay+Pendakur&s=books&sr=1-1TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:28) Current state of DEI and recent pushback from various sectors (03:12) Analysis of DEI investment timeline and systemic unfairness (05:26) Higher education's response to DEI legislation and demographic shifts(08:38) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo (09:58) Challenges in measuring DEI progress and impact (12:48) Misunderstandings and Semantics (17:55) Corporate vs. Social DEI (22:45) Sponsor: Metaview (26:38) Scope of care in corporations and how COVID impacted DEI initiatives (35:12) Challenges in measuring DEI impact and focus on hiring metrics (40:41) Team effectiveness and the role of inclusion in high-performance teams(45:00) Impact of diversity on team performance and manager effectiveness (50:25) Future of DEI programs and evolving role of Employee Resource Groups (ERGs) (53:38) Reframing DEI for business performance and organizational effectiveness(55:00) Discussion on colorblindness and meritocracy in business contexts (57:03) Critique of MEI framework and the need for ongoing DEI interventions (58:10) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich tackle knowing when it's time to leave a job -- considering factors such as energy levels, learning opportunities, and impact. They cover the art of giving notice, protecting your financial interests, and nurturing professional connections when moving to a new opportunity.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:55) Recognizing It's Time to Leave(03:54) The Importance of Networking and Taking Recruiter Calls(06:57) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(09:59) Job Tenure and Career Narratives(12:53) How to Put in Notice(16:55) Sponsor: Metaview(18:55) Vesting and Financial Considerations When Leaving(19:53) Maintaining Relationships After Leaving a Company(22:53) Closing Thoughts and Lessons Learned(23:01) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church sits down with Valentina Gissin, former Head of Talent at Bridgewater and current Chief People Officer at Garner. Valentina shares the lasting lessons and people practices from working under Ray Dalio at Bridgewater, Garner's unique approach to the interview process, and her approach to hybrid work, manager training, L&D, and performance reviews. Valentina offers an absolute masterclass in innovating hiring and people strategies.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).KEEP UP WITH VALENTINA, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINValentina: https://www.linkedin.com/in/valentinagissinNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Garner Health: https://www.getgarner.com/Principles by Ray Dalio: https://www.principles.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:47) Valentina's Experience at Bridgewater(01:27) Dot Collector and Feedback System(09:38) Managing Hybrid Work Environments(11:27) Commitment to Remote Work and Hybrid Teams(16:21) Managing Global and Synchronous Work(18:15) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(20:03) Improving Interview Training through Recording(22:06) Getting and Giving Signal in the Interview Process(25:38) The Correlation Between Structured Critical Thinking Questions and Successful Performance(28:18) Creating a Feedback Culture at Garner(30:49) Sponsor: Metaview(31:03) The Role of Performance Reviews in Compensation and Data Gathering(36:21) Using Real-World Simulations in Manager Training(45:55) Designing a Function for Difficult Performance Situations at Garner(46:16) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this HR Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli talk about "back channels" in the hiring process.They dive deep into this controversial practice and how back channels can impact candidate selection, emphasizing the need for a thoughtful, mature approach that considers the full context of a candidate's experience and potential.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) - Intro(00:54) - Defining back channels as "underground mafia" of feedback (01:52) - The right way to do back channeling (03:03) - Maturity in back channeling conversations (04:12) - When to do back channeling (05:43) - Avoiding the "back channeling frenzy" (06:42) - Timing of back channeling in the hiring process (07:55) - Sponsors - Planful | Workvivo(10:48) - How to properly conduct a back channel inquiry (12:04) - Sponsor - Metaview(13:40) - Typical back channel communication methods (14:50) - Real example of a nuanced back channel situation (15:59) - The "family reunion" analogy for bias in back channels (17:18) - Importance of considering human growth in back channels (18:31) - Handling negative back channel feedback (20:05) - Using back channel feedback as a litmus test for candidates (20:53) - Criticism of board members' approach to back channels (21:51) - Shallowness in high-level back channel feedback (22:45) - Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli are joined by Joelle Emerson, CEO of Paradigm, to discuss why diversity numbers aren't improving quickly in companies and the challenges in measuring DEI progress.This episode explores the complexities of measuring impact, discusses the trade-offs of long-term strategies, and offers insights for navigating the current backlash.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.KEEP UP WITH JOELLE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINJoelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelle-emerson-4a24225Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Paradigm:https://www.paradigmiq.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:58) Paradigm's mission and work in diversity and inclusion (01:55) Discussion on slow progress in diversity representation (03:48) Long-term investments in diversity initiatives (06:52) Measuring progress and acknowledging small wins in DEI (10:47) Adapting DEI work in response to backlash (14:37) Importance of effective messaging in DEI efforts (14:48) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo(17:26) Distraction from the Backlash(27:28) Sponsors: Metaview | Warp(27:55) Legal considerations and challenges in DEI work (30:51) Discussion on problematic hiring practices in DEI (34:43) Turning down clients who don't align with DEI values (36:37) The role of dedicated DEI teams in organizations (39:29) Echo chambers and polarization in DEI discussions (44:38) Trade-offs in DEI investments and hiring processes (47:38) Debate on blind auditions and diversity in hiring (49:45) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this HR Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli discuss the dramatic shift in the tech industry's work culture. They explore how the once-glamorous perception of tech jobs, filled with lavish perks and easy success, has given way to a more challenging reality.While this transition is painful, it may ultimately lead to a healthier, more sustainable tech ecosystem with professionals who are truly committed to building the future.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:03) The Contrast: Past Tech Perks vs Current Reality(03:30) Changing Perceptions: From Love to Hate in Tech(04:43) Sponsor: Planful(05:41) Expectation vs Reality: The Tech Industry Illusion(07:51) First Major Downturn: Impact on Young Tech Workers(09:21) Silver Lining: Creating Better Leaders Through Adversity(11:28) The New Normal: Reaching Equilibrium in Tech Industry(12:11) Wrap(12:48) Sponsor: Metaview | WorkOS(15:30) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss The New York Times article making waves this past week: "So Human Resources Making You Miserable". Nolan and Kelli dissect the article's claims, share their own experiences and what they're hearing from other leaders, and discuss the disconnect between HR and the rest of the org.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:New York Times: So, Human Resources Is Making You Miserable?:https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/03/business/human-resources-professionals-workplace.htmlReferenced book:Bad Therapy: Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up: https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Therapy-Kids-Arent-Growing-ebook/dp/B0CBYHTV2D—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:15) "HR Making You Miserable" Article(01:22) HR Community Reactions & The Past Few Years(02:43) HR vs. The Rest of Business(06:20) Taking Ownership and Spreading the Love(08:24) HR's Role & Shifting Expectations(11:00) Learning from Other HR Leaders & Changing the Mindset(13:08) Experimentation and Collaboration(14:23) Communicating with CEOs and Setting Boundaries(14:38) Sponsors: Metaview | Workvivo(15:08) Training Leaders and Changing the Culture(17:06) Relationship Debt and Resetting the Relationship(19:32) The Power of Mentorship and External Help(22:23) Sponsor: Planful(22:33) The Sixth Sense & Influencing Key People(24:54) Taking Responsibility & Shifting Your Worldview(26:33) Resilience and Managing Emotions(08:00) Focus on Solutions(30:00) The Impact of Personal Well-being on Work(31:48) Building Resilience & Prioritizing Yourself(33:10) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich weigh in on a listener's question (shoutout Karissa!) about implementing 'bar raiser' interview programs at her Series D company. Are they worth the hype, or just an HR trend? Kelli and Nolan dig in.You too can email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:21) Implementing a bar raiser interview process(00:57) Amazon's Bar Raiser Program(01:36) Rebranding the "Bar Raiser" Process(02:42) The Amazon Approach(03:24) Avoiding Bias & Alternative Approaches(04:46) DoorDash's Experience(06:00) Challenges & Trade-offs(07:18) Sponsor: Metaview | Workvivo(08:16) DoorDash's Shift From the "Bar Raiser" Program(10:18) Alternatives & First Principles(12:31) Addressing CEO Expectations(13:25) Bias & Homogeneous Cultures(14:44) The Role of CEOs & Founders(15:19) Diligence & Feedback(17:21) Going Slow to Go Fast(18:17) Misaligned Expectations(19:10) Start Small & Experiment(19:33) Wrap(19:47) Sponsor: Planful This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich sit down with Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos for his insight into how AI is transforming recruiting -- and creating unexpected leverage for teams that know how to use it.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/?originalSubdomain=ukNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Metaview: https://www.metaview.ai/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction(06:51) The Pain Points of Traditional Hiring(10:59) Interviews are Broken(14:20) Conversations are Key(14:26) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(17:00) The Future of Hiring(20:00) Conversations in the Future(21:59) The Evolution of the Recruiter(24:34) Legal and Accuracy Considerations(25:57) AI as an Iron Man Suit(27:50) AI's Next Level: Detection & Trends(29:31) The Power of Data(30:41) Sponsor: Metaview | Warp(32:00) Metaview's Value Proposition(35:00) The Efficiency Drive(36:55) The Future of Hiring Tech(39:23) The Importance of Product Management(41:00) Metaview's Roadmap(44:01) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss how HR teams can break out from behind the curtain and be a proactive force for good within the organization.HR can be more than just a reactive function. Learn how HR teams can demonstrate their real impact on the business as Kelli and Nolan share tips for increasing visibility and showcasing your team's value. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:18) The Importance of Feedback(02:17) Mediocre vs. Amazing Work(03:07) Employee Awareness of HR Functions(04:41) Town Hall Presence: Communication and Transparency(05:01) Engagement Surveys(06:06) The Importance of Transparency - The "Sausage Making" Analogy(06:35) AMA Example - Comp Transparency(08:30) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(11:09) The Art of Compensation(12:19) Transparency is Scary but Necessary(13:00) Explaining the "Why" - First Principles(14:00) Time Commitment and Building Trust(15:18) Strategic Vulnerability and Humanization(16:40) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich sit down with Chris Vasquez, Investor and Founder of Quantum Talent, and discuss the insane AI talent market, executive hiring, and the future of work in a world where AI is rapidly changing everything.Hear their insights on the dynamic AI talent market covering the evolution of tech trends, challenges in hiring, the changing dynamics of diversity and merit, and the race for top talent.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.KEEP UP WITH CHRIS, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINChris: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-vasquez-66137553/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Quantum Talent: https://www.quantumtalent.io/Related Post:Alexander Wang’s LinkedIn Post on Meritocracy at ScaleThe Architect of the Paypal Mafia: Peterson Conway—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:25) The Evolution of Tech Recruiting(02:00) Impact of AI on the Job Market(03:41) Challenges and Opportunities in AI(06:06) The Competitive AI Talent Market(07:06) AI Strategies and Realities(07:57) The AI Gold Rush(10:39) Winning in the AI Talent War(22:01) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(25:51) Diversity and Merit in Tech(26:56) The Importance of Diverse Personality Traits(27:39) Meritocracy and Bias in Hiring(28:25) Challenges and Changes in Defining Diversity(29:42) The Role of DEI in Companies(31:38) Balancing Company Culture and Performance(36:03) Sponsor: Metaview | Warp(40:34) The Future of AI Executives(44:05) Advice for Job Candidates(50:10) Emerging Trends in Tech and Beyond(52:41) Conclusion and Final Thoughts This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss the reality of PIPs (Performance Improvement Plans). Are PIPs genuine efforts to help employees or a company CYA tactic? Kelli and Nolan explore the misuse of PIPs, arguing that they should be a last resort, not the first step in addressing performance issues. Listen to their insights as they discuss PIP alternatives, like the "fork approach," focusing on open communication and employee empowerment over PIPs.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(03:12) Performance Improvement Plans (PIPs)(01:46) Pips As A Forcing Function And The Misuse Of The Process(05:06) The Misconception on PIPs(06:48) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo(08:00) The "PIP or Package" Approach and its Alternatives(13:21) Surviving PIP(16:38) Advice for Employees Facing PIP This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan are joined by Heather Doshay, Partner and Head of Talent at SignalFire.How is the tech talent landscape evolving, and what are the challenges and opportunities that come with these changes? Listen as Heather shares insights from their State of Talent report, uncovering shifts in location trends, Gen Z job hopping, and the truth about AI's impact on hiring. Plus, hear why "remote ready" is more important than ever and why Heather calls out the reliance on pedigree and college degrees in hiring, arguing for a more skills-based approach to talent acquisition.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.RELATED EPISODE:Tomasz Tunguz on Hiring the Right Talent, Firing the Wrong Execs, and Navigating M&As* Substack* Apple* Spotify—KEEP UP WITH HEATHER, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINHeather: https://www.linkedin.com/in/doshay/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKSSignalFire: https://www.signalfire.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction(00:20) Heather Doshay's Career Journey(01:39) SignalFire's State of Talent Report(03:13) Geographic Talent Shifts(08:06) Gen Z vs. Gen X Workplace Trends(12:52) The Value of College Education(14:41) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo(17:25) Job Descriptions and Requirements(24:53) Challenges of HR Leadership(28:36) Challenges of the Chief People Officer Role(29:49) The Complexity of Hybrid Work Environments(30:54) Navigating Remote Work During the Pandemic(31:58) The Future of Remote and Hybrid Work(34:15) AI in Recruitment: Transforming Hiring Processes(34:32) Sponsors: Metaview | Warp(41:22) Common Mistakes in Early-Stage Companies(42:40) The Problem with Over-Leveling Titles(50:27) Rethinking Pedigree in Hiring(54:38) The Impact of AI on Jobs(56:18) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss Meta's latest round of VP cuts which raises questions about the future of big tech jobs and the impact of efficiency initiatives on employees.Is Meta's large number of VPs hindering efficiency? Listen as Kelli and Nolan discuss the impact of bloated management structures in big tech, the future of leadership and management, and their insights on how to prepare for a changing job market.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction (00:04) Meta's Push for Efficiency(02:03) Employee Perspective on Job Security(03:30) Company Perspective on Executive Roles(06:01) The Issue of Title Inflation(08:04) Navigating the Job Market(08:55) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo(13:08) Networking and Career Advice(15:15) Concluding Thoughts(15:26) Sponsor: Warp(16:27) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nick and Kelli sit down with Nick Cromydas, CEO of Hunt Club, and discuss the executive search evolution, leveraging technology, and AI. His company Hunt Club uses a network of thousands of leaders to find the perfect candidate, revolutionizing the traditional search firm model. Nick, Kelli, and Nolan discuss common negotiation points and terms surrounding executive compensation, equity, and the importance of transparency and feedback in hiring processes.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.—KEEP UP WITH NICK, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cromydasNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Hunt Club: https://www.huntclub.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction(00:19) Founding Insight of Hunt Club(02:21) How Hunt Club Works(06:57) The Role of Technology and Human Element in Executive Search(10:14) Executive Severance Negotiations(14:49) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo(20:31) Equity and Compensation Insights(26:13) Sponsors: Metaview | Warp(28:04) The Importance of Upfront Process(32:00) Effective Executive Interview Processes(34:46) The Value of Working Sessions(36:42 )The Importance of Executive Feedback(48:31) Evolving Trends in Executive Search(52:42) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan is joined by regular guests/friends of the pod Colleen McCreary (Ribbit Capital) and David Hanrahan (CPO, Flare) to unpack Alexandr Wang’s MEI stance at Scale AI, the growing backlash against DEI initiatives, and a discussion of how businesses can move forward productively from this debate.The conversation also touches on the new culture deck from Netflix! If you haven’t listened to HR Heretics episode #1 where we interviewed Patti McCord, architect of the first Netflix culture deck, queue it up right after this episode.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support Our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. :writing_hand: Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.—KEEP UP WITH COLLEEN, DAVID, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINColleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenmccrearychiefpplofficer/David: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidhanrahanNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction00:33) Meritocracy Needs a Rebrand(02:19) Challenges of Meritocracy(04:22) Real-World Examples and Hypocrisy(06:38) Striving for Alternatives(09:21) DEI and Meritocracy: Are They at Odds?(15:15) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo(19:15) Transparency and Context in Leadership(21:35) Sponsors: Metaview | Warp(34:34) Final Thoughts and Call for Unity(36:17) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this 4th of July special episode of HR Heretics, hosts Kelli and Nolan discuss the hurdles of taking vacations, particularly in the context of modern HR practices. They explore the challenges and strategies of making use of unlimited PTO, the importance of setting regular boundaries for mental health, and the importance of planning ahead for time off. They also discuss the importance of training your colleagues to enforce your vacation, deleting Slack off your phone, and recognizing false urgency.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. :writing_hand: Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction and Welcome(00:02) The Vacation Dilemma(00:42) Unlimited Vacation Policies(01:23) Personal Vacation Strategies(02:26) The Importance of Taking Breaks(04:45) Setting Boundaries and Expectations(10:06) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview(13:29) 4th of July Plans(15:04) Wrap(15:12) Sponsor: Workvivo | Warp This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit with Michelle Wagner as she shares her journey from Chief People Officer at AOL and Evernote to becoming the CEO of MindStrong, a healthech company.Michelle, who may be “N of 1” in the CPO to CEO company trajectory, discusses her early career, the challenges she faced in different leadership roles, and the strategic decisions she made during her tenure as CEO of MindStrong.This candid conversation offers valuable insights for HR professionals and aspiring leaders, highlighting the multifaceted responsibilities and realities of executive leadership — plus what the job search looks like after you’ve been a CPO and a CEO.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support our amazing sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. :writing_hand: Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.--KEEP UP WITH MICHELLE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINMichelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelledwk/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction(00:52) Nostalgia and Beginnings at AOL(04:43) Evernote: Peaks and Challenges(08:46) The Unexpected CEO Transition at MindStrong(12:50) Navigating Chaos and Rebuilding: The First Year as CEO(15:00) The Tension of a CEO Transition: Navigating Dynamics and Loyalty(16:42) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo(19:23) The Tension of a CEO Transition: Navigating Dynamics and Loyalty (continued)(29:06) The CEO Learning Curve: Mastering Business Acumen and Facing Vulnerability(33:03) Heartbreak and Determination(33:44) Sponsors: Metaview | Warp(35:49) The Acquisition Process: Balancing Patient Care, Investor Expectations, and Team Stability(40:30) Finding the Next Chapter and Overcoming Preconceived Notions(41:52) Career Reflections and Future Plans(47:00) The Unfairness of Expectations on CPOs(55:26) The Power of Transparency: A Case Study in Building Trust and Respect(1:03:11) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Andrew Bartlow, a multi time VP of HR and co-founder of People Leader Accelerator. Andrew shares his extensive career from startups to Fortune 100 companies, the distinct challenges at each company stage across VC-backed startups and public companies, and the danger of being relegated to your HR island.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHereticsThis episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.KEEP UP WITH ANDREW, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Andrew: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bartlow/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:06) Andrew's career journey(02:49) Differences between company types(06:57) Power structures and company culture(12:26) Talent assessment in private equity(17:47) Sponsors: Metaview | Workvivo(20:39) Private equity misconceptions(28:20) Sponsors: Attio | Warp(30:11) Changing reputation of private equity(33:11) CEO and Chief People Officer relationship(37:07) Assessing CEO's expectations(39:00) Concept of HR island(41:34) Engagement metrics: A critical view(44:58) Challenges in HR leadership(46:13) Engagement surveys: Pros and cons(54:56) Exec comp debate(01:00:51) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Scale AI's CEO sparks debate with "MEI" - is meritocracy a threat to diversity?Kelli and Nolan, together with Richard Ni, Scale AI’s former Head of People, weigh in on the implications of this new hiring policy. Together, they discuss the role of meritocracy and company culture and offer actionable insights for HR professionals for talent acquisition and building a diverse workforce.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHereticsKEEP UP WITH RICHARD, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINRichard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-ni-a5605543Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction(02:09) Richard's Perspective on MEI(04:16) Kelli's Take on Meritocracy vs. DEI(07:11) Nolan's Counterpoint: Meritocracy's Imperfections (09:06) The Importance of Transparency and Seeking Improvement(13:00) Richard's Analysis of Scale AI's Motivation(14:34) The Importance of Human Decision-Making and Corruption(19:00) The Imperfections of Humans and Systems(22:22) The Impact of Tech Giants on Expectations(24:40) The Impact of Economic Pressure on Companies(29:48) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Nolan and Kelli sit down with Lars Schmidt, Redefining Work podcaster, author, world of work content creator, and founder of Amplify Talent. Lars shares his journey from leading talent at NPR to establishing his voice as a creator, to founding his own advisory firm. Lars, Kelli and Nolan discuss the motivations for becoming a content creator, challenges in building a brand and community, and why in the age of AI HR practitioners need to be more selfish.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics—KEEP UP WITH LARS, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINLars: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larsschmidt/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:26) Lars’ journey into content creation(03:05) Transitioning to solo ventures(05:25) Building an Empire: Writing, speaking, and more(11:31) Importance of creating content for personal expression(14:30) Sponsor: Metaview and Workvivo(17:22) LinkedIn podcast partnership(19:00) Downsides on being online(22:23) Future of media and AI(26:30) Handling content for HR community(29:09) Sponsor: Attio(30:06) Challenges and responsibilities in HR(32:29) Importance of diverse opinions(38:39) Navigating polarizing ideas in HR(40:15) Amplify community and modern HR(48:39 ) Traits of successful CPOs(51:48) Generational shift in HR leadership(54:34) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Rippling is banning ex-employees who work at competitors from participating in a secondary stock offering. Is this ethical or a smart business move? Kelli and Nolan discuss the pros and cons of this controversial HR policy.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction(01:26) Initial Reactions and Previous Examples(03:07) Rippling's Justification and Cynicism(04:31) The Zero-Sum Game and Company Messaging(06:42) Openness vs. Pettyness & Employee Value(07:42) Future Implications and (08:50) Sponsor Break: Workvivo(10:25) Regulatory Implications and Cam's Argument(11:13) A More Brutal Form of Non-Compete & First Principles(13:00) Rippling's Perspective and Understanding the "Why"(13:58) Conclusion: Experimentation and Openness This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com