How I Write

Wright Thompson is one of the best nonfiction storytellers in the world right now. He showed up to my place, and I immediately liked his vibe. We started talking, and it turns out we both love Guinness Zero. So we cracked open a beer, and we just talked about the writing process. How do you tell a great story? How do you nail an ending? How do you use details to bring a character to life? That's what this episode is all about, and it's a heck of a lot of fun, too. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Ocean Vuong is a poet, a novelist, and a professor at NYU. He's just really good at writing in this fresh, enchanted, and imaginative way. He has this way of seeing and experiencing the world that's alive and filled with wonder. If you want to write prose that's lush, words that are vivid, and stories that pulse with life, then you're going to love this episode. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Do you ever wonder how the book publishing industry works? How does the CEO of a top-five publishing house even think? That's what this episode is all about. My guest is John Yaged. He runs Macmillan, which is one of the top five publishing houses. I asked him to talk to me like I'm a young writer who has never published a book before. And that's what he did. If you're interested in improving your writing, if you want to be a super successful writer and understand how this industry works, then you're going to like this episode. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Michael Connelly is a crime novelist famous for series like 'Harry Bosch' and 'The Lincoln Lawyer'. Combined, his series have sold more than 100 million books, and they've become TV shows on Netflix, MGM, and Amazon Prime, where he's not just writing but is also the executive producer. His fingerprints are all over the work. I wanted to ask him how he dreams up vivid characters and how he writes about a city, a town, or a place. If you want to write, come up with stories, imagine worlds and put them onto the page, you're in the right place. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Steven Pressfield is a master in the art of storytelling. He spent decades studying what great stories have in common. So that's what we're going to talk about: the principles of storytelling and character building. I want to know the things that transcend genre and culture, and speak to the heart of the human condition. I want X-ray vision into what makes stories great. I want to know what makes you get to the end of the story and just say "wow". That's what this conversation is all about. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Robert Mac is on the show today to teach us what he's learned from great comics like Jerry Seinfeld and Mitch Hedberg. Robert has been doing stand up for more than a decade, and I wanted to know what he's learned about how to be funny, how to tell a good story. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Bill Browder has written two books, Freezing Order and Red Notice, which was everywhere when it came out in 2015. It’s a page-turner. I had to ask him how he thought about building character, bringing people into the story and keeping people engaged. Enjoy! About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Basecamp, the world’s simplest, most effective project management platform. Check them out at https://basecamp.com and tell them David Perell sent you. Diarmaid MacCulloch is an author, a professor at Oxford, and he's obsessed with history. A real expert who's been studying it for decades. In this episode, we talked about how to do history, the role of a historian in society, and how to take everything you learn in the research phase and turn it into clear, vivid, and entertaining writing. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Basecamp, the world’s simplest, most effective project management platform. Check them out at https://basecamp.com and tell them David Perell sent you. Lee Child, the man behind the "Jack Reacher" series, has sold more than 200 million books. It is the best-selling series of all time on Amazon in the UK. More than Harry Potter, which is crazy! A new book is sold on average every nine seconds. So how does he do it? How does he write it? How does he come up with the ideas? That's what we're going to find out. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Basecamp, the world’s simplest, most effective project management platform. Check them out at https://basecamp.com and tell them David Perell sent you. Clint Bentley and Greg Kwedar are the two brilliant minds behind Train Dreams, the Oscar-nominated adaptation of Denis Johnson’s novella. Their film is emotionally devastating in ways that stay with you long after the credits roll. In this interview, I wanted to understand how that kind of film actually gets made. We talk about how they taught themselves filmmaking by building a mental archive of films, how a single frame can unlock an entire scene, and why adapting a book spirit often requires stepping away from its words. This How I Write episode is an exploration into how two directors think together, and how a deeply human story becomes something monumental. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Basecamp, the world’s simplest, most effective project management platform. Check them out at https://basecamp.com and tell them David Perell sent you. Fareed Zakaria is one of the world’s leading journalists. Maybe you’ve seen him on CNN. Maybe you’ve read his books. Or maybe you’ve read his articles in the Washington Post. This conversation is a university-level seminar in the craft of writing, which builds upon the thousands of articles Fareed’s written over his career. It’s a guidepost for anybody who wants to write non-fiction. How do you develop expertise? How should you structure your days? What kinds of deadlines should you set? We also talked about how The Great Gatsby shaped his perspective on America, when to rely on anecdotes vs. data, and the skills that’ll remain scarce as AI breaks through the Turing Test and becomes a hyper-competent writer. The through-line of Fareed’s work is a philosophy of purposeful practice: watching all his TV performances to see how he can improve, reading great writing to absorb what excellence looks like, and using the deadlines of TV and newspaper columns to write consistently. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out Sublime at https://sublime.app/?ref=perell Daniel Pink is one of the most successful nonfiction writers of the past 30 years. You've probably seen his books: "Drive," "The Power of Regret," or "To Sell Is Human." Maybe you've even seen his viral TED Talk about the science of motivation. In this conversation, we started by talking about his writing process, which he's been doing consistently for so many years. I wanted to know when, where, and how often he writes. I wanted to know all about it. At the very end, Dan goes: "I've got one more thing to share with you." And then he shares is the most important question that any writer can ask before they take on a new project. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tom Junod is famous for writing essays that have defined both people and events. He wrote a piece called "The Falling Man" for Esquire, which is the canonical piece about 9/11. Later on, he wrote the iconic "Can You Say...Hero?" about Fred Rogers, also for Esquire. What's unique about this conversation is that it's both practical and deep, but it all comes to a head at the end. In this climax, we get to talk about his bookshelf, and it fast becomes one of my favorite things that's ever happened on How I Write. Enjoy! About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Adrian Tchaikovsky came on the show to talk about how he writes fantasy and science fiction. He won the Arthur C. Clarke Award for his book, Children of Time, and has written more than 60 books and novellas. He spends his life thinking about how to make believable worlds and how to build characters that have weight to them. My favorite thing is how he writes a fight scene, how he thinks through the pacing and all the action. If you want to write imaginative stories filled with wonder and fantasy, you're going to like this episode. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out Sublime at https://sublime.app/?ref=perell Elif Shafak has a way of writing that's lush and enchanted. She writes about real things in the world: water, houseboats, ordinary things that we stopped seeing. And she infuses them with life and wonder so that we can see the world fresh again. Elif has written more than 21 books, and she's the president of the Royal Society of Literature, which has had fellows like J. R. R. Tolkien, Rudyard Kipling, W.B. Yeats, and Margaret Atwood. You'll notice that her writing advice is different from what you normally hear. She wants to help you splash your personality onto the page, how to write with soul, and how to unlock your wild imagination to do it day in and day out until you're left with a finished piece of writing. 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:02 Making small things feel enchanted 00:04:39 How to avoid fake wonder 00:07:22 Elif’s writing routine 00:09:13 Writing at night 00:11:11 How heavy metal helps writing 00:18:07 What makes characters feel real 00:19:55 Fixing a story 00:22:15 Writing like children 00:26:09 Which senses matter most 00:32:32 Taking risks after being successful 00:34:12 Soft vs hard writing 00:38:59 Elif’s editing process 00:43:27 How poetry influences her writing 00:48:30 What English can’t express 00:51:46 Writing as if you’re “drunk” 00:55:04 Why freedom comes first 00:57:04 Lessons from favorite writers 01:06:44 Rumi’s influence 01:10:22 Spirituality vs religion 01:15:07 How cities shape writers 01:17:11 James Baldwin’s influence 01:18:22 Melancholy and humor About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: ⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel⁠⁠ Spotify: ⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv⁠⁠ X: ⁠⁠https://x.com/david_perell⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Henry Shukman is a poet, author, mindfulness teacher and Zen master. He has studied meditation for 35 years, principally in the Sanbo Zen lineage. His most recent books are Original Love (HarperOne) and the Zen memoir, One Blade of Grass. He is also the co-founder of the acclaimed single-path meditation app, The Way. He has taught at Google, the New York Times, Harvard Business School, and the Institute of American Indian Arts. He has written several award-winning books of poetry and fiction, and his poems have appeared in The New Yorker, Guardian and Sunday Times. He has a degree from Cambridge and an MLitt from St Andrews. Learn more about Henry's latest book, Original Love: https://henryshukman.com/writing/original-love Deepen your meditation with The Way: https://www.thewayapp.com/howiwrite About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Every so often, I'll re-publish some of my favorite How I Write interviews. This classic episode is with Ward Farnsworth, a law professor and former dean at the University of Texas School of Law who has written popular books about clear thinking, language, and philosophy. His books include Classical English Style and works on rhetoric and legal writing. Get 60 days free Readwise Reader at https://readwise.io/davidperell/ Check out Ward's website: http://wardfarnsworth.com/ 00:05:09 Example 1 (King James Bible) 00:07:25 Example 2 (Winston Churchill) 00:12:01 Example 3 (Winston Churchill) 00:15:35 Example 4 (King James Bible) 00:18:34 Example 5 (Abraham Lincoln) 00:23:13 Example 6 (Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.) 00:26:56 Classical English Rhetoric 00:27:56 Example 7 (Abraham Lincoln) 00:30:15 Example 8 (Abraham Lincoln) 00:32:04 The only app I use to read articles [Readwise Reader] 00:33:31 Example 9 (Winston Churchill) 00:36:09 Example 10 (Lloyd Bentsen) 00:38:50 Example 11 (JFK) 00:42:16 Example 12 (Abraham Lincoln) 00:43:56 Example 13 (Henry Fielding, Tom Jones) 00:45:48 Example 14 (King James Bible) 00:47:58 The 3 Techniques, explained 00:52:40 Practical advice for everyone 00:56:24 The ideal writing curriculum About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel⁠ Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv⁠ X: ⁠https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out Sublime at https://sublime.app/?ref=perell This episode brings together the moments from How I Write in 2025 that have stayed with me the longest. These are the clips I revisit when I need to be reminded why writing matters. Robert Macfarlane talks about wonder as something you have to actively protect. Jayne Anne Phillips explains why the memories we keep from childhood reveal who we are. Paul Harding makes the case for aiming higher than feels comfortable and learning from the writers who shaped you.Henrik Karlsson shows what it means to really look at the world instead of getting trapped in your own words. Alain de Botton reveals how the news narrows our thinking. Lulu Cheng Meservey talks about writing that feels alive rather than polished to death and Mitch Albom tells a story that shows why storytelling is a craft of emotion as much as technique. And then there is poetry. Dana Gioia and David Whyte both treat poems as part of a life, something to memorize, perform, and return to when everything feels confusing or heavy. This episode is a reminder that writing is not just about words. It is about attention, courage, honesty, and the way we make sense of being alive. Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out Sublime at https://sublime.app/?ref=perell Jonathan Franzen is one of the most influential novelists alive today. He sees fiction as the most fundamental human art, and in this conversation he explains how he actually makes it: the discipline, the daily grind, and the psychological spelunking required to write characters who feel startlingly alive. Franzen has always had an outsider’s eye. He questioned the hype of the Internet long before it was fashionable, and he’s been ruthless in diagnosing the spiritual emptiness of modern consumer life. Practically, more than anything else, this episode is about how he develops rich characters. For Franzen, the people are the story. When they’re real and true, fiction has a way of getting to the core of the human experience in a way that gives people a visceral experience, as if they’ve lived the story firsthand. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out Sublime at https://sublime.app/?ref=perell Atul Gawande has written four books and countless articles for The New Yorker. When you think about doctors who write well, he's going to be the first person who comes to mind. What's unique about him is that this isn't something that came naturally. The work of research, writing, editing, shaping sentences, telling stories: those are all things that he taught himself. He's a surgeon, and he's still been able to write as much as he has. How has he done it? What has the discipline of writing for him been? That's what this episode is all about. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out Sublime at https://sublime.app/?ref=perell Brandon Stanton, the creator of Humans of New York, came on the show to talk about how he wrote his way to five published books and 13 million Instagram followers. Along the way, the man basically invented his own genre of biography. There are short stories, there are long stories. What he would do every single day is he'd walk out onto the streets of New York, photograph people, and interview them. He would say, "How do I tell this person's story?" What he discovered is that these people's stories were stories about the human condition itself. It went completely viral. So if you're interested in thinking about how to tell better stories about people, how to find your voice as a writer, then you're going to like this conversation. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out Sublime at https://sublime.app/?ref=perell David Grann: one of the best storytellers alive today and an absolute master at narrative nonfiction. You might know him from "Killers of the Flower Moon", which Martin Scorsese turned into a film. And then there's "The Wager"; I can't think of a single book that more people I know have said that they just read the entire thing, from start to finish, in one sitting. So what is it that he does to find stories, to research them, to turn them into writing that just makes people flip from page to page? Lush, vivid prose, great descriptions. How does he do it? That's what this conversation's all about. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Susan Orlean writes nonfiction books that read like fiction, sort of working in the style of Joan Didion or Tom Wolfe. But what makes her different is how intentional she is about her writing process. She's very intentional about the research, the writing, the editing phases, all of it. And if you're thinking about your own process, how can you structure your life in order to lead to good writing? Well, you're going to love this episode. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Stefan Sagmeister is the author of six books and one of the most influential designers in the world. He's won multiple Grammy Awards for his designs, and he's designed album covers for people like Jay-Z and David Byrne, the Rolling Stones. But he's a writer. What does he write about? Well, design, beauty, how to find good ideas. You'll notice when you pick up one of his books that the form, the style, the vibe, the typography is every bit as important as the content. This is really about design, beauty, and why our world looks the way it does. Enjoy! About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Morgan Housel is one of the top non-fiction writers in the world. He is most famous for his book “The Psychology of Money”, which has now sold more than 8 million copies. Before he wrote the book, he wrote more than 4,000 blog posts for publications like The Wall Street Journal and The Motley Fool, and that’s how he honed his craft. This is my second time having Morgan on the show. The first time, I just wanted to talk about Morgan, how he goes about his work. But this time I said: “Tell me about stories.” “How do you find stories? How do you tell stories? How do you think about the rhythm of stories?” That’s why he’s been able to sell millions of books in the world of psychology, investing, and business: because of his ability to tell a really good story. Enjoy! 00:00:50 Collecting Good Stories00:04:12 Storytelling Beats Facts00:05:16 How to Hook Readers00:08:39 How Morgan Uses ChatGPT00:15:53 Teaching vs Preaching in Writing00:18:01 The #1 Worst Writing Advice00:25:18 Wide Funnel, Tight Filter Framework00:27:08 How to Find Your Writing Style00:31:45 Why Write Books in an Online World00:36:20 How Morgan Wrote ‘The Art of Spending Money’00:47:16 Morgan’s Admiration for Beautiful Writing00:53:28 How to Start a Chapter00:57:18 Becoming More Observant01:01:01 You Don’t Need New Ideas01:08:16 How Morgan Deals With Rejection About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You can’t walk through an airport without seeing a Mitch Albom book on one of the shelves. He’s most famous for writing Tuesdays with Morrie, which may very well be the best-selling memoir of all time. He’s now written 14 books, which combined have sold more than 40 million copies. In 45 years of hitting the keyboard, this is the deepest conversation he’s ever had about the craft of writing. I asked him to approach this like a college writing seminar. Give me the rigor. Give me the examples, baby. Show me how you go about your craft. And that’s what he did. He taught me the ins-and-outs of character building, writing novels, and our conversation started with how to tell great stories. Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I interviewed Dan Wang, a writer and analyst whose annual letters from China have become a first draft of modern Chinese history. We talked about how he blends personal observation with deep analysis, how to skip the cliches and write with texture instead, and how classical music and literature have shaped his writing style. What’s unique about Dan is that he built a name for himself by writing one essay per year (in an age where writers are encouraged to publish consistently). We also talked about his approach to travel writing, the difference between living in Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong, how AI is changing the way he thinks (but not how he writes), and why China’s influencer culture is his least favorite thing about the country. 00:1:04 Why Dan writes Annual Letters00:07:53 Dan’s favorite novel00:15:01 Dan’s method for writing00:26:02 Why most travel writing stinks00:30:44 How to travel through China00:33:05 The regions of China, explained00:44:47 Trade books vs. academic books00:53:46 The problem with history books01:01:42 Did Dan write his book with AI?01:10:50 Dan’s least favorite part about China1:15:42 A critique of American elites1:33:08 Dan’s website got blocked in China1:39:52 What China mocks about America1:54:49 A simple way to improve your writing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I interviewed Ada Limón and Joy Harjo, two of America’s most celebrated poets and former U.S. Poet Laureates. We talked about the art of deep listening, how to translate the music of the world into language, and why silence is never empty but always alive. We explored how poetry resists “clock time,” why metaphor is essential to truth, how culture lives through song and dance, and what it means to trust your voice across a lifetime of writing.If you want to write with more presence, rediscover the mystery of language, or understand how poetry can awaken a deeper way of being, this conversation will give you timeless insights from two masters of the craft. Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I interviewed Jack and Ryan from AJR, the band that has built one of the most original voices in modern music. We talked about how they use humor and vulnerability to write songs that connect on a deeper level, why embarrassment is often the best creative compass, how Broadway and magic inspire their live shows, and what they’ve learned about navigating TikTok, streaming, and the new economics of the music industry. We also explored their thoughts on AI, why imperfection makes art feel authentic, and how they’ve grown from writing dorm-room party songs to filling arenas around the world. If you want to understand the future of music, create art that’s both playful and profound, or learn how to stay true to yourself in a world driven by algorithms, this conversation will give you a rare inside look at the creative process of AJR. 00:00:00 The truth in music 00:09:41 Embarrassment as creative fuel 00:20:05 Context is everything 00:29:24 From 2D to 3D songwriting 00:39:36 Live shows as the real artwork 00:49:42 Truth, AI, and the future of music 00:59:41 Haters, resilience, and regret-proof songs 01:09:27 Writing a thousand bad songs 01:18:58 Partnership and balance 01:28:32 Themes, loss, and the arc of Maybe Man Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices