Food Safety Talk

Ben and Don start the show by talking about the movie The Parent Trap. Don recommends the original version with Haley Mills instead of the remake with Lindsey Lohan. Ben shares that he often enjoys Amazon.com humorous reviews, like those found here. Ben and Don then reminisce about their recent visit to the Army and Navy club in Washington, DC for a meeting of the Food Safety Preventive Controls Alliance. The guys are looking forward to seeing each other again at the annual IAFP 2015 meeting in Portland Oregon*. Don shares that he has been listening to podcast called “The Dalrymple Report” featuring Canadian guitarist and Apple nerd Jim Dalrymple. Ben may listen on his next run. After 30 min catching up, Ben and Don officially begin the podcast talking about an outbreak of salmonellosis linked to tuna fish where at least 53 people got ill. Don strongly recommends that infants and the elderly not eat sushi. While browsing the Internet for more information, Don concludes that FDA has a better site index compared to the CDC. Then the conversation continues with hand washing. An anonymous colleague contacted Don and Ben regarding the accessibility of hand sink and soaps for food handlers. Results showed an increase in violations of this time over time. The guys then talk about the Food Code in both North Carolina and the New Jersey. Don introduces the Blue Bell ice cream outbreak into the discussion. He references a blog post from The Acheson Group about FDA 483 inspection reports. Ben mentions that because of the outbreak, Blue Bell laid off 37% of their employees. The podcast ends with a (belated) invitation to listeners to attend IAFP, in Portland, Oregon. * Ok, so we are really behind. We know

After a brief discussion about Quadrophenia, the guys thankfully decide to not sing this episode. Ben mentions that the last video store in the Raleigh area is closing. This led to some discussion about the job security of academic careers where Don stated, ‘prediction is very difficult especially about the future.’ Spurred by Ben’s short visit to Baltimore, the guys then discuss how awesome The Wire is. Don mentions a perspective by David Simon, the Wire’s creator, on the real life situation in Baltimore. Ben was recently in Baltimore for the Food Safety Summit. A nod goes out to Brian Saunders for doing a good job of boots on the ground coverage of what’s going on in Baltimore during the Food Safety Summit. Don recommends Acorn TV for anyone interested in British TV. This subscription service has British programming not typically shown on US TV. At the Acorn website Ben spotted Time Team an archeology reality series that he thinks his kids would love. This week Ben talks about media interviews and a focus on multiple food safety stories all hitting at the same time. He talked a cutting boards post on barfblog that garnered some attention. He also fielded inquires regarding the Blue Bell Listeria outbreak . Ben noted that Blue Bell announced they are recalling all the ice cream. A tragic botulism outbreak linked to a church potluck in Ohio was also a topic in multiple media outlets. The potluck outbreak was linked to home-canned potatoes but the coverage prompted a side conversation about bot and foil-wrapped baked potatoes. Looking ahead to future food outbreaks Ben mentions that a bill was introduced in North Carolina to legalize raw milk. This bill would allow consumers to legally acquire raw milk via a cow share mechanism. In this article Ben is quoted challenging an inappropriate comparison of raw milk outbreak data by the bill’s sponsor. In After Dark Don shames Ben for not listening to Roderick on the Line. Again. - 30 -

The show opens with a discussion of Don's mic stand and quickly segues into "Linda's Famous Cigar Story", and Ben's annual pollen throat. After a discussion of their various ailments, Don wishes Ben an almost 37th birthday. Ben is currently expecting a new macbook, which was discussed on Episode 116 of the Talk Show. Don shares his recent experiences looking at Apple Watch in the Apple Store, and his preference for the Milanese Loop and his new burr grinder and aeropress. When the talk turns to food safety, Ben talks about his work with Family & Consumer Sciences in North Carolina, (called Family and Community Health Sciences at Rutgers University) and how Ben has recently changed his training practices from classroom lecture to supermarket and restaurant inspection field trips based on inspiration from Dara Bloom. This inspires Don to talk about the work he's doing to help documentary film makers doing a story on shelf life dating of foods especially milk. Ben shares some of the myths circulating about expired milk including this bogus article from Livestrong, and the work he's doing on expired food and food pantries. From there the discussion moves to other shelf life myths including the egg float or shake tests, and why they are bogus, as well as places to go for good egg information, because someone on the Internet will always be wrong. The discussion turns to recalled hummus recall messaging and Ben's post hockey snacking tips. As the guys wrap up the show they briefly talk about Blue Bell ice cream and the doses of Listeria that might have made people sick and the future of food safety given the advances in molecular biology, clinical microbiology and whole genome sequencing. Ben shares some final thoughts on Salmonella in spices and how whole genome sequencing might impact that industry too. In the brief after dark, Ben and Don talk about yoga, and getting healthy, the Turing Test, and the new Star Wars movie trailer.

Merlin Mann joins Don and Ben for a discussion on food safety and cooking using science at home. The episode starts off with a discussion on sous vide and time/temperature combinations for pathogen reduction. The discussion goes to Harold McGee’s On Food and Cooking and the science of cooking, sensory and how heat changes food quality and safety. The guys talk about ground meats risks compared to intact muscle meats and then deconstruct risk assessments with bullet analogies. The guys move into pork and trichinosis and how risks have changed but messages stay sticky. The show ends with a discussion on food safety myths, including confusing food safety and spoilage; storing butter on the counter and ketchup in the refrigerator. They decided to leave an in-depth discussion of Sloan for another day.

The show opens with the guys reminiscing about their visit to Southern California and the Hopscotch Tavern where they witnessed a Fark worthy car chase on TV. Ben shared his love of Top 40 music , and his worries about exposing his kids to inappropriate music like Beyoncé or Sublime. From there the discussion moves to the value of real world experiences like those detailed in Kitchen Confidential, Heat, or by Gord Surgeoner during his retirement dinner. The food safety talk begins in earnest with a discussion of Hepatitis A illnesses linked to frozen berries in Australia, and Don shared his back of the envelope quantitative microbial risk assessment for frozen berries based on this article. This was followed by a discussion on why viruses might be such a problem in frozen berries, and frozen food safety risk management in general. Next up is an exploration of Listeria in public lavatories based on this peer reviewed publication. The conversation then devolves into "Shoe Safety Talk", and the risks posed by brogues, not broughs, but the brogue shoe. The After Dark includes a mention of Roderick's Rendezvous, The Dan Benjamin Hour, and Don finally remembers the name of Battle Creek.

Ben and Don start by catching up about technology. Ben is quite excited about Google fiber coming to Raleigh, NC, Don, already subscribed to Verizon fios says that the fiber is great. Ben then leads a discussion about his new obsession, the Wake Forest Community discussion board on Facebook. The page is a forum for pretty much anything from tooth abscesses, to snakes, to local business ratings. The guys delve into the community forum concept and explore the intersection with food safety (sale of goods, transportation from out of state). Don mentions that he has been volunteering with the innovation committee in Freehold borough who also is looking at a community forum. Ben introduces the concept of Lip Dubbing and Don provides his favorite, a NFL video about reading of lips incorrectly. The real food safety portion of the podcast starts by Don talking about Better Process Control School. Don talked about some feedback he was giving to a couple of small companies about aseptic processing, challenge studies and jacketed kettles, and expressed some frustration with FDA because sometimes their interpretation of science isn’t clear. The discussion goes into regulatory hurdles, retail food safety, variances and HACCP plans. Ben talked about an individual that is interested in food sustainability who is looking to divert food waste from restaurants to pantries, using reduced oxygen packaging for storage and transport. The guys talk about regulating food even that is given away (but not it all states) and the variance process. NC Senator Thom Tillis garnered headlines for suggesting that restaurants be allowed to opt out of handwashing regulations as long as they post a disclosure or advisory – or replacing one regulation with another. The podcast ends with a discussion of a possible norovirus outbreak at NC State.

This episode starts with a discussion of Ben’s taste in music, and they quickly move onto talking documentaries. Ben recently watched Jodorowsky’s Dune, on Don’s recommendation. This documentary has some ‘artful nudity’ that leads to a discussion of perverts on airplanes and the appropriateness of reading material such as Fifty Shades of Grey while crammed into an airplane seat. The conversation naturally transitioned into a discussion of microphone stands and coffee. Ben notes that owning a Nespresso machine has changed his life; he ranks it among his top 10 life changing things (including his wife and children). The guys then discuss other pop-culture topics including Deflate-Gate and TV shows The Affair, Portlandia (which had an episode satirizing raw milk), and Garfunkel and Oates. Note that Portlandia is required viewing before attending IAFP 2015 in Portland this summer Ben leads off the actual food safety talk by mentioning sprouts and the number of outbreaks associated with them. The guys then discuss experiments to validate sprout cooking processes including charred bean sprouts. Ben then brings up the idea of baking cookies in a car and a visit from Linda Harris (who now download and listens). From there the talk turns to pathogen reduction validations for baking processes spurred by Wegmans recall of baked fruit desserts last summer, presumably because they contained peaches recalled for Listeria. The FDA’s Reportable Food Registry, along with CDC whole genome sequencing of pathogens, is enabling more illnesses to be linked to products, as seen in Salmonella Braenderup linked to nut butter. Ben predicts more businesses will have to issue recalls because of validation issues, and the investigations that accompany these recalls will isolate pathogens from within facilities that can be linked to other illnesses which have occurred over months and years prior. The discussion then turns to the very bad blizzard that New Jersey never had. Don discusses the similarities between the models for weather forecasting and models in food safety. Both situations have consequences for over or under reacting; both present risk management and risk communication difficulties. A tweet from The New Yorker made Don mad: Bill Marler may be all that stands between you and Salmonella. This resulted in Don tweeting back to The New Yorker. Ben mentioned it was probably just Betteridge’s Law of Headlines. Bill Marler is probably not all that stands between you and Salmonella; as there are a few more people trying to do the right thing. The guys then go on to discuss how Marler and Caroline Smith DeWaal, a lawyer with the Center for Science in the Public Interest, have become controversial food safety personalities over the years. Don recently was quoted in an article about the safety of various cuts of meat (and Barfblogged here). Don and Ben were so happy Don was quoted correctly, they were able to ‘ding’ their podcast-bell; a virtual high-five. Pork has a reputation for being dangerous but decreases in incidences of Trichinella and Americans tendency to overcook pork have reduced the actual risk, so Ben wanted to discuss a recent MMWR Trichinellosis report. Don mentions ‘The Batz Report’ which determined the top 10 pathogen-food combinations with the greatest burden in public health. This led to a discussion of sample size, detection limits, consumption rates, and risk messaging, leading to the conclusion that cultural practices in food preparation adds complexity to the determination of risk.

At the start of this episode Don is very annoyed because he bought a microphone stand, carried it to various continents without using it, and now he cannot find it. In its absence he has resorted to using a hat. The podcast opens with discussion about making podcasts. A listener asked how episode titles are selected in response to the title of Food Safety Talk episode 68: “We found it in Wild Pig Feces”. The process for podcast title selection is to look for random, out of context phrases from the show, text about them 30-40 times to select one, and lastly make sure it isn’t too long. One of Ben’s students, Lily Yang, also expressed interest in podcasting. He advised she can learn a lot by studying other podcasts. Recommended podcasts are Merlin and Dan’s Back to Work podcast on 5by5 and the WTF podcast especially the episode with RuPaul. Another resource is The Podcast Method website. The focus of this episode was professionals making poor risk management decisions. A health inspector from the Nova Scotia Department of Agriculture tried to stop a mother from breastfeeding in her farmer’s market booth despite the fact that she had proper hand washing facilities. The department later apologized. Ben and Don applaud the well-reasoned response the mother, Tanessa Holt gave. Additional excitement brought to you by the 'Theater of Public Health’ includes a middle school in New Jersey was closed because a staff member had C. difficile . Ben provides an historic example of risk management vs. communication virucidal footbaths were installed at airports in response to foot and mouth disease outbreak with the understanding that they were not effective. The guys talk about how there is often a lack of data to inform risk, for example with the proposed use of hand sanitizer between handling money and then food. Or maybe the data does exist, but isn't at the forefront of public health recommendations (the removal of tomato stem scar). Ben and Don talk about gaps existing between regulations and practical ideas for implementation. Don found Rutgers dining hall did not have a vomit clean up plan and the Food Code is lacking specific best practices. One good resource for vomit clean up is here. The conversation turned to public perceptions of food risks. Food safety professionals are perhaps not proactive about correcting public misperceptions. A counter example is South Dakota soybean producers who aim to correct misperceptions people have about GMOs and pesticides through a new advertising campaign. Don talks about an interview question related to safest cuts of meat. Regarding food safety ranking Mike Batz has created a top ten list of food-pathogen combinations. For better or worse, the Mother Jones article is here. In recall news, Chipotle took a pork carnitas off of their menu because they suspend a pork supplier due to animal welfare concerns. Lastly, Don received an urgent voicemail from the department administrator to sign a very important document and stated that 'lack of planning on other peoples part does not does not constitute an emergency on my part.'

Don and Ben start the show by talking about the drastic weather in Raleigh, NC and Freehold, NJ. They quickly changed topics to beverage preferences, including Starbucks and eggnog. Ben notes he is not a fan of eggnog although his grandparents used to drink consistently. Ben also reminisces about other old-timey eating habits including pickled beets, and buttermilk. Don will stick with eggnog plus whiskey during the holiday season. Ben shared his excitement about a Sloan concert that he recently attended with his wife. Ben also mentioned a thoughtful gift that he received from his wife: a poet (Matthew) wrote a poem for Ben on the topic of barf and Ben was very thrilled. Don also shared his excitement as well as he recently celebrated his birthday, and Merlin gave him a shout out on his podcast. Twenty minutes in, food safety talk officially began and Ben commented on a blog post where the interviewed the research chief of ABC Research laboratories. She was interviewed about raw honey and recommended honey pasteurization to prevent infant botulism. Ben disagreed with her statement, and noted that pasteurization does not destroy the spores present in honey. Don supported Ben and added that pasteurization is even less effective in low water activity foods like peanut butter or honey. According to this fact sheet, honey is pasteurized to reduce the likelihood of fermentation and crystallization over time. Don turned the topic to Ebola in the US, and mentioned Peter Sandman’s post on The public health establishment and the quarantine debate. Sandman complained about how the US handled the Ebola issue. Ben agreed with some (not all) of the post and concluded that risk talk should always be frank. From Ebola the topic turned to Hepatitis E as an emerging foodborne disease. A UK article stated, 1 in 10 sausage carries the risk of Hepatitis E, which seems high to Ben and Don. Don thought that Hepatitis E in the UK might be a worker sanitation issue. Both guys were intrigued by the apparent low risk of Hepatitis E in the US. Peer reviewed research published in Epidemiology and Infection states that Hepatitis E is associated with unprocessed sausage, and 90% of British pigs have exposed to Hepatitis E and produce antibodies. Cooking suggestion including cooking for 20 min at 70 °C or better yet, using a thermometer. Don mentioned a recent contact by a local company asking about safe practices for cooked brown rice preparation. Although the company had a detailed and meticulous workflow, additional information (like product time and temperature) would be needed to insure control of Bacillus cereus, according to Ben. The show concluded with talk about the Month-Long Poop Cruise, the verdict in the Peanut Corporation of America case and the food safety mess in Pro Sports.

This show starts with Don and Ben talking about the number-six item on their list of things to discuss for the episode: Yosemite and how beautiful it is; Ben rates it at three thermometers, a rating system they invented. Ben’s favorite thermometer is the Comark PDT300, even though someone sent him a ThermoWorks Thermapen which is Don’s favorite. Ben’s hockey team has been using thermometers when the grill sausages, this is what Ben’s contribution to the grill-outs. Ben gets chirped for being the guy who brings the thermometer to the hockey grill. Ben is now supplying thermometers to other hockey guys. Don talks about his lunch date with a podcast celebrity from the 5by5 network. Don tells the whole story about flying business class from Brazil to Texas then while in Texas, buying comic books and having lunch with Dan Benjamin. Dan asked Don lots of food safety questions; they didn’t talk much about 5by5. After this, Don attended the NoroCORE Food Virology meeting with Ben (the guys talked in real life, not just over Skype). The conversation then turns to food safety culture and what that really means as it is in the literature. Ben talks about a conversation he had about food safety culture with a person trying to develop a presentation on food safety culture for farmers. Don shares an email from Doug about food safety concerns at [insert big company name] that shared a Dropbox video of text and images displaying poor food safety. The guys then talk about the difficulties of creating a food safety culture when no one thinks it’s important. Ben talks about the many things that must be in place before a food safety culture can begin to be established. Then conversation then transitions to how to talk about food safety risks. Ben suggests talking about risks frankly. The guys then discuss the uncertainties around risks and how to discuss them. Discussing how quantitative risk assessments are performed and applied, and the issue of uncertainty messages, also come up in conversation. Salmonella Hypetheticum then comes up in the conversation. Don then brings up a book that he has been reviewing about food waste. The same food waste topic has been featured on a television show that Don’s real life friend Randy Worobo was a guest on. The issue of food waste and risk is discussed, with a focus on lower income persons and how to manage the need to save money against food safety risk decisions. The use of fruits and vegetables that are past their optimum date to make infused vodka brings back memories of pruno-associated C. botulinum outbreaks. Ben appreciates Don for working the math around food safety questions and the time and effort it takes to accurately answer without just ‘no don’t do that thing’. Ben then brings up the issue of thawing a turkey on the counter the risks associated with that action. Doug Powell has a paper in the Canadian Journal of Dietetics Practice Research about the calculations around thawing a turkey at room temperature. Actually, it is ok to thaw a turkey at room temperature if you are within certain parameters. This topic follows along with the possible Food Safety Talk tag line: and it’s messy. Next, Ben wants to talk about communication, but Don talks about the decision to eat fresh produce in Brazil, and other’s decision not to eat the fresh produce while visiting. While at meetings Ben seems to focus on following the news and typing up Barfblog posts (some people are ok with that and will resist complaining; Ben does type rather loudly). When Ben gets really into what he is writing, he lets out really loud sighs others have noticed, but Ben hasn’t noticed his inappropriate sighing. Transitioning back to communication, Ben brings up a hepatitis A outbreak reported in Cumberland County Maine, but without a retail location identified. The State of Maine is taking some flack (could we call this chirping, see above) for their handling of this incident; the State of Maine tried to

In this episode Manan Sharma from USDA ARS fills in for Don who is away in Brazil. Manan grew up in Alabama and studied Microbiology as an undergraduate at the University of Florida. He received his M.S. and Ph.D. in Food Science from the University of Georgia where he focused on food safety microbiology. Manan and Ben talked about formative experiences in their careers including Manan’s high school internship at Research Genetics where he had great mentors who helped him appreciate molecular and microbiology. Research Genetics was later bought out by Invitrogen). Manan gave a shout out to his great mentors Bob Zahorchak, his first laboratory mentor, and Jim Hudson the president and CEO of Research Genetics. Manan also talked about his advisor at the University of Georgia, the great Dr. Larry Beuchat who encouraged him to take chances with his ideas and explore. Manan talked about his first project at USDA ARS: blowing up meat using hydrodynamic pressure processing (HDP) - different from hydrostatic pressure processing. HDP, where an explosion in a vessel of water is used to create a highly energetic wave is featured in an episode of MythBusters. Manan had to obtain a license from the ATF to use the explosives needed for this technology. Manan reported that while HDP was effective at blowing the roof off of his test facility it wasn't great at inactivating of food pathogens. Manan and Ben talked about food safety for leafy greens, particularly on the persistence of pathogens in manure and biological amendments. The guys talked about two a 2006 E. coli O157:H7/leafy green outbreaks, one connected to spinach and another linked to shredded lettuce leading to a research focus and the creation of the Center for Produce Safety, the Leafy Green Marketing Agreement. The conversation went to further impacts of big events including a 2012 Salmonella Outbreak linked to peanut butter manufactured by Sunland Farms in New Mexico which continues to impact growers. Manan talked about a paper, Bacterial Occurrence on Kitchen Hand Towels and extra-intestinal pathogenic E.coli (ExPEC). The guys wrap up the show with a new feature of 5 seconds, which included gems like: What is the riskiest food you eat? Nirvana, Pearl Jam or Soundgarden? Best project idea you wished you were part of? Most important sports moment?

The fellows start the podcast by catching up on their travels, and Don talks about Brazil and Ben about Canada. Don also talked about his new podcast workflow using an app that converts webpages to PDF files and sends it directly to Dropbox. Surprisingly, they immediately embark in a food safety conversation and Ben mentioned a recent C. perfringens outbreak in Maryland at a food safety conference where 266 people became ill presumably by eating Chicken Marsala. The actual food served was not sampled, however stool samples were positive for C. perfringens. This outbreak sparks a discussion of the work by food safety expert Frank Brian. In response to an outbreak at a school, Frank performed an observation study, where he had the cafeteria staff redo everything identifying the risk associated with that outbreak. The discussion turns to Denmark where three individuals died of Listeriosis after eating asparagus soup. Dr. Charles Haas tweeted the asparagus soup recipe has a dairy component and the soup may be served hot or cold which might be the risk associated with the outbreak. Once again, they talk about cutting boards in response to Don’s Facebook post. There has been previous discussion about how many cutting boards a kitchen should have. Don who himself owns 10 cutting boards, raises a better question to how risk is managed, or when to throw away a used cutting boards. Dr. Cliver, a former professor at UC Davis, has done published on plastic and wooden cutting boards. Ben recalled that Dr. Cliver compared raw milk and apple cider with bungee jumping and skydiving. While Don does not agree with this metaphor, he thinks that Dr. Cliver would have been a great podcast guest. Speaking of guests, the hosts updated their short list to include retired government scientists Jack Guzewich, and Carl Custer. The show-noter for this episode also gives a shout out to Dr. Freeze who was not just an awesome podcast guest, but also an inspiration and role model for female food safety scientists. Ben turns the talk to tech by mentioning an iTunes application that he uses to scan receipts and important notes, and Don counters with his PDF app of choice, which reminds him of his dislike of university reimbursement logistics. Don calms down to recommends music software that helps him focus. The show wraps, up with discussion of a blog post by Doug Powell: “Who are you? Scientist, Writer, Whatever”, and Don adds that to be a good scientist, one must be a good writer, since one must write to publish, and doing experiments without publishing them is not science. Then they talk about how social media can be useful in helping in food safety, citing a restaurant in Alaska that was closed after a Facebook post led to health department inspection.

The episode begins with Ben and Don talking about the fall weather and Ben’s podcasting from home (possibly sans pants). The discussion turns to travel and its potential impact on Don’s jury duty. Ben has never served on a jury, but has seen many movies about trials. Don shares that he has seen some movies about trials, notably Capote and To Kill a Mockingbird. Both guys are fans of the movie My Cousin Vinny, which is not a book. The pop culture talk turns to television, and Ben mentions The Americans (spelled with a c, not k, but the c does look like a hammer and sickle in the show logo). Don has been watching Intruders, but he has barely been able to discern what the show is actually about. Last Tango in Halifax is also good TV; with season two now available on Netflix. Ben wraps up the pop culture part of the show with a mention of a Farm Aid concert he attended with some other foodie-people and mentioned that Neil Young shared about his personal views on some farming issues at the concert. The conversation moved to politics and cable news. As a board member of the New Jersey Association for Food Protection, Don was part of a recent conference call regarding the organizing of a GMO foods discussion/debate with invited speakers, potentially including Robyn O’Brien. When Ben got his start in food safety, GMO foods were in the news and he mentioned a recent barfblog post on labeling of GMO foods and their unintended impacts on consumer choice. Ben talked about the summer reading program at NC State, and this years book Tomorrows Table, written by an organic farmer and a food biotechnologist. Ben recently participated in an IFT sponsored twitter chat on the safety of packed lunches. Ben noted the difficulty in answering complicated questions in only 140 characters over twitter and the stress of having answered so many questions in a short period of time. The discussion turned to an article about the temperatures of school lunches, and the importance of considering both time and temperature. Don mentioned a good FightBac webinar that covered cross contamination, and plugged his recent appearance on Academic Minute that covered some of Don’s hand washing experiments. Ben recently received a risk-type question during an interview, and he was keen to know what Don would answer (PhD students take note: Ben plans to ask this question at every qualifying exam he goes to!). The question was: What is the riskiest food-related thing that you do? Don provides two answers: 1) he sometimes doesn’t wash his hands for 20 s with soap; 2) sometimes he doesn’t take the temperature of meat on the grill and just believes it is ‘probably good enough’. Ben’s answer included eating fresh restaurant salsa with lots of cilantro and eating a lot of berries. Ben, Don and regular podcast guest Mike Batz are all trying to eat less and exercise more, and using technology to do it. Mike and Don are using Lose It; Ben is using My Net Diary and Runtastic. Don announced that he has podcast cheated on Ben by participating on another podcast, Better Know a Jackal, and the discussion moves to podcasting workflows in general. Don is now using an app to send webpage PDFs to Dropbox. The conversation then transitioned to some humorous turns-of-phrase that Doug and Ben like to drop into Barfblog articles. Ben was disappointed no one commented on a witty double entendre he included in a posting about finding vomit on an airplane. Ben has to repeat the line to Don a few times before laughter ensues.

The guys start the podcast by discussing old movies that Ben has never seen, like Play Misty for Me and the Good the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Talk turned to chimps, Bonzo and Bubbles (not this Bubbles). They then talked about some more recent TV shows like Californication, The Americans, Dr. Who, Intruders, Comic Book men. And yes, the food safety experts are excited about New Girl season 3 on Netflix. The topic shifted to edible marijuana issues in Colorado related to Salmonella contamination and then Don reviewed a book that he recently read, “The minotaur takes a cigarette break” to which he awarded 5 thermometers. Don and Ben were then joined by special guests Laura Nelson and Dr. Jay Neal. Laura Nelson is Vice President of Business Development and Technical Services at Alchemy Systems, a food industry training solution provider and Jay Nelson is an Associate Professor at the University of Houston. The group had a discussion started on behavior-based food safety training including a survey that Alchemy commissioned, Global Food Training Survey Reveals New Emphasis on Worker Behavior. Laura also talked about an internal report looking at training staff on food safety behaviors including an observation/coaching follow-up. The group talked about some of the common issues that the food industry encounters - staff may have been trained but the actual practices aren’t always happening. Laura spoke about how to get at the reasons behind why practices don’t occur - and that food safety culture is tough for some industry folks to define. Jay talked about a training technique that includes breaking down specific processes into small pieces and how the literature is pointing to encouraging feedback and coaching along with positive reinforcement. Jay’s experiences are that managers are really important to culture and where their priorities are (sales, customer experience, food safety) will affect team performance. All four of them discussed ways to improve workers skills; Don pointed out that measuring behavior is very hard, and the group discussed some work that Jay had published in this area. Jay shared an amusing classroom social experiment where he teaches his students to empathize with non-english speakers. He assigned the students a recipe in a undecipherable font and only the manager has a clear recipe. They must try to cook together but they are not allowed to talk. In After Dark, Ben introduced Don to the Sponge Bath It suggests soaking kitchen sponge in a cleaning solution of citric acid and silver to reduce microbial growth. Nevertheless, Ben and Don promised to talk more on the topic in future podcasts.

Don bravely did this podcast without a microphone boom. Ben feels good despite his messy office. Ben mentions that he is currently obsessed with the Rolling Stones and likes the Shine a Light Film, Jumpin’ Jack Flash, (the song not so much the Whoopi Goldberg spy comedy film), and the song Salt of the Earth from the Stones album Beggars Banquet. They then discuss movies every kid needs to see before they turn thirteen such as Indiana Jones, Ghostbusters, E.T., and Diary of a Wimpy Kid and classic kids books including The Hardy Boys, Encyclopedia Brown, Three Investigators, Key to the Treasure, and A Wrinkle in Time. The guys then discuss their recovery after IAFP, as a follow-up to FST 66. As president of IAFP Don was very busy at the conference with meetings, breakfasts, committee responsibilities, and other assorted duties. He made the conference manageable by shirking his student poster responsibilities, not going to any talks, and skipping PDG meetings. He did however give a talk on based on a paper he has been working on with his CDC and EHS-Net (pronounced S-net) colleagues. The guys then drift to other podcasts, especially Alton Brown’s series and in particular one he did with William Shatner. If you like podcasts, food, Alton Brown, or William Shatner, this stupendous podcast is highly recommended for you. Thirty-five minutes in they decide that they should talk about food safety and get to Outbreak Flashback about a 2008 Salmonella Saintpaul outbreak that affected over 1400 nationally (as per Michelle Danyluk's suggestion. Initial CDC epidemiology analysis indicated the illnesses were associated with eating tomato dishes and FDA issued a health advisory on tomatoes. This NEJM article shows the case control studies that layout why the CDC initially thought the source was tomatoes. After tomatoes were removed from the market the illness continued and with additional data available the CDC later concluded that jalapeño and Serrano peppers were the likely source. Epidemiologic analysis was confounded by the fact that many illnesses were from restaurants where peppers were in dishes that contained multiple ingredients. Additionally the production and supply chain was very complex as is shown in the FDA’s traceback diagram. A key aspect of this outbreak is that it significantly harmed reputation and sales of the tomato industry, which estimates $400 million lost dollars as a result of the FDA’s erroneous health advisory. Talk turned to growers seeking indemnification or financial compensation for situations when the government agencies are incorrect about outbreaks. The guys then discuss a voluntary recall by Wawona Packing Co. on fresh peaches and stone fruit. A receiving company in Australia detected the presence of Listeria monocytogenes. This later led to a recall of baked goods in Wegman’s supermarket chain presumably because Wegman’s baking process is not validated. There are a surprisingly high number of comments posted to the Wegman’s article in Food Safety News which caused the guys to consider if the public health implications of this recall are more significant than first thought. For Listeria monocytogenes (LM) there are not a lot of outbreaks but rather sporadic cases; CDC estimates in 2013 there were 0.26 LM illness cases per 100,000 people in the US (for every case reported there are 2 cases not diagnosed). The guys then discuss food safety gaps common in fresh produce including poorly executed washing processes and traceability deficiencies. In after dark the guys discuss that Dean Richard Linton, Dean of the NCSU College of Ag, has selected the 2014 Dean’s ice cream which is dark chocolate, tart cherries, chocolate chunks and marshmallow swirl.

In this episode Don talks with John Bassett. The scene opens with a vivid description of a picturesque English village with pigeons pooping on the eaves and birds chirping in the background. John starts by telling the listeners a bit about his background. He is a veterinarian by training, having earned his degree in New Zealand. He spent seven years as a veterinary practitioner; a bit like that depicted in All Creatures Great and Small in Epsom (that’s in England). John returned to New Zealand and began a small animal practice but quickly transitioned to work for a government biosecurity laboratory in Wellington (that’s in New Zealand) where he solved problems during extended coffee breaks taken in trendy cafes. John got his start in risk assessment using the OIE approach. John’s next career move was to industry as a risk assessor with Unilever; this took him back to England (that’s in the United Kingdom). The guys got sidetracked and discussed the sole-crushing bureaucracy that can be found in big industry (not that there’s anything wrong with that). John’s latest career change finds him in a new mode as food safety consultant. The guys discussed the recent Chobani mold incident. From here the conversation jumped into tea. Iced tea with added sugar was discussed as a possible growth medium for generic E. coli (special concern was expressed for sun-brewed tea) and the potential for herbal (pronounced ‘erbal’ by some) tea as a source of bacteria and maybe pathogens. John talked about some of his current risk assessment work, and the difficulty of making risk management decisions for low-frequency events. John explains his recent interest in Gael Risk assessment techniques. This approach can be used for semi-quantitative risk assessment, and may have value in preventing problems like the recent horse-meat food scandal. The value of audits in science-based food safety was questioned and discussed, and Don and John disagreed about the value of semi-quantitative risk assessments. Bandwidth on John’s end starts to suffer (perhaps due to John’s kids arrival home from school) so the conversation is paused briefly, while John (the poopy-head) sorts it out. The show resumes with a discussion on whether HACCP is risk based or not. John notes that one key to “selling” a risk assessment might be based on saving money in the long run, perhaps from a reduced need for testing and auditing. A discussion of the Elliott Review takes place before the guys re-iterate the need for using computerized systems for effective traceback in the food supply chain; especially ones that do not need to be linked via paper documents. John mentions that he will not be at IAFP 2014 due to lack of a wealthy sponsor; but he does plan to attend the IAFP European Symposium in Cardiff in 2015. Don reveals his IAFP presidential party plans (Beer, Bourbon, and BBQ), while John contemplates pork ribs somewhere closer to home. John mentioned the use of the sear and shave technique to produce safer raw burgers in the UK. Don didn’t seem convinced, and will continue using his iGrill and tip sensitive digital thermometer, as suggested for use in previous Food Safety Talk episodes, “because everyone’s gotta have a hobby”. Both guys reminisced over outbreaks of Campylobacter jejuni from seared chicken livers that occurred in the UK and USA. In the After Dark portion, Don transitioned into talking about Doctor Who, and John explained he was late for the podcast meeting because of a meeting with McDonald’s own Bizhan Pourkomailian.

Ben and Don were on location in Indianapolis at the International Association for Food Protection annual meeting and the show kicks off with Don’s discussion of his script and playbook for the IAFP meeting. Don ate dinner at a place (Harry and Izzy's) that is not St. Elmo’s Fire and the guys decided that Rob Lowe looks the same as he did in 1986. Ben discussed his rule of three drinks, and Don does not subscribe to the same rule - which led to some tiredness. The guys were joined by Dr. Freeze who is not to be confused by Canada’s king of icees, Mr. Freeze. In discussing Ben’s new found obsession with the number 3 (like Jack White), Don shares 5ives, Merlin Mann’s list of fives (including #3 on the list of 5 guitarists who rock the three-note solo). Don’s continued use of his IAFP playbook as a prop leads to a dissuasion of Dungeons and Dragon’s, Canadianisms and the renaming of IAFP as science prom (where Don and Ben may take their bromance to the next level). Don alluded to the Florida Association for Food Protection’s requirement that Don dress up as a roach. A talk of accents let to a discussion of one of Ben’s current obsessions, FX’s Fargo with Martin Freeman. The group recapped Indianapolis happenings including Food Safety Talk guest Bill Marler's Ivan Parkin Lecture and the Oregonian’s Lynne Terry filing stories and tweeting from the meeting. The discussion went into some of the opportunities and challenges of having media actively attending sessions. The topic turned to non-traditional media, the 24 hour news cycle and clickbait lists including Buzzfeed. Don told a story about how a clip of him talking about food safety in China ended up on Al Jazeera. An age old discussion about the media (and others) getting science wrong led to Ben talking about an anonymous Twitter feed called IAFP no context. The discussion went into the War of 1812 (also known as the one that Canada won). In the After Dark the group talked about the Grateful Dead, handy folks and carpenters.

In this episode, Ben is absent, but Don is not alone. Mike Batz, Assistant Director of Food Safety Programs, Emerging Pathogen Institute at the University of Florida, is a guest in the show. He appeared not once, but twice on the podcast before. Don and Mike start by talking a little about their travels, then, they quickly move to a discussion on the Chobani Yogurt recall. The news article leaves Mike unsure whether Mucor circinelloides was pathogenic to both animals and humans. A brief digression about podcast listening speed reveals that Batz listens at 1.5 speed while Don is more civilized. Returning to yogurt, they discuss the original mBio article. Don concludes the study did not provide enough evidence to show M. circinelloides is truely pathogenic to humans. Don asks Mike about a psychology experiment done by Facebook where they manipulated users feeds. Mike was disappointed by Facebook’s methodology since the study never requested an informed consent from the users. They then rambled about again about their various and sundry international travels. Mike resided close to the Rijks Museum (that's in Amsterdam) for a while and Schaffner shared his experience in Finland (including reindeer tartare) and New Zealand (and beef tartare). Next, they talked about a document from the FAO marketed as providing a list of the top 10 foodborne parasites ). To continue, they discussed seasonal food safety tips. While Mike confessed to not always follow his own food safety recommendations, Don revealed he is reluctant to eat a cut cantaloupe by a stranger. Soon after, the discussion shifted to antibiotics in meat. Both agreed that the issue is quite complicated and there is not a straight forward answer. They concluded the show with a discussion on cross contamination including cutting boards, artisanal cheese and the 5 second rule. Don recommended plastic cutting board for meat and wood cutting board for any other food types.

In a special episode recorded back before Ben went on summer hiatus, the guys invite Doug Powell on for a chat. According to Wikipedia (which is never wrong), Dr. Douglas Powell was raised in Brantford, Ontario (that's in Canada). Doug describes himself as a former professor of food safety and the publisher of barfblog.com. He is passionate about food, has five daughters, and is an OK goaltender in pickup hockey. These days Doug is been thinking a lot about soul, and given the Venn diagram of their intersecting musical tastes this leads to a discussion of Mr. Soul and a place where even Richard Nixon has got soul. Any discussion of music and soul leads to a mention of the classic Soul Man, which Don knows from the Blues Brothers movie, and Doug knows from the original version by Sam and Dave. Doug is thinking about soul because of his monthly writing gig for the Texas A&M Center for food safety. The piece he was ruminating on during the call led to a post called "It's Gotta Have Soul" where his central thesis is that most people talking about food safety lack relevance; they lack soul, and fail to resonate. After the guys bid Doug good night, the discussion turns to managing graduate students, task tracking software like OmniFocus, distracting diversions like Flappy Bird, managing references using Sente or Mendeley and a brief look forward to this special events which are coming, or rather were coming, at the IAFP annual meeting.

Don and Ben revert back to their old Skype issues with the perceived blame being on Ben, but it was actually Don. Don announced that there will be help for people like Ben who aren’t so good at time and attention at IAFP 2014 the infamous Merlin Mann will be there. About 0.1% of IAFP annual meeting attendees will be excited to see him - including Ben and Don. Ben mentions his excitement that Professor Dr. Donald Schaffner, PhD was name checked on Back to Work Episode 173. The first mention of The Wire comes at 12 minutes which the guys then give a shout out to Baltimore resident Manan Sharma who mentioned that that’s his favorite part of the show. In follow-up from Episode 61, friend of the show MDD says that there are not rats in Alberta Ben and Don remark while there may not be any snakes in New Zealand and Ireland (although Ben thinks that Don is thinking of potatoes) there are rats in small pockets in Alberta While Alberta has had a rat eradication program since the 1950s, a colony of Norwegian rats, of Roanoke Island proportion, was found in Medicine Hat in 2012 and 2014 Ben tells Don that he wears big pockets, because of the rats issue and on a pilgrimage to Edmonton to see a statue of The Great One his pockets were not checked. The guys then talk about a question from IAFP’s Dina (not Dinah). Dina asked the guys to discuss their thoughts on a recent JFP paper about non-intact steak cooking using temperature, flipping/turning and different cooking methods. The practical, take-home message (as dictated using Dragon Dictate that flipping and covering with a lid (which allows cooking to occur both through conduction and convection heat) and using a thermometer for all cuts of meat helps reduce risk. Ben talked a bit about some future work that his group is doing looking at mechanically tenderized beef messaging, perception and behavior- including cubed steak (which is sometimes two pieces of meat slapped together and run through the cuber- although not by wikipedia). The discussion then went towards steak eating preferences as detailed by FiveThirtyEight Nate Silver’s cadre of numbers nerds who dissect a lot of pop culture and sports questions. The guys then both talked about message variability projects they have going on. Ben’s group is looking at cook book recipes (and how the messages and instructions in the culinary world often are not evidence-based). And Don’s group is looking at messaging on handwashing signs, something that his second favorite graduate student, Dane, is undertaking. In outbreak flashback the guys talked about 1854’s Broad St. Pump cholera outbreak. Using a map and analyzing cases of human disease, John Snow, largely recognized as one of the founders of epidemiology, created a blueprint for the next generation of disease hunters. Removing the handle on the pump was recognized by ending the outbreak except that modern epi-curve analysis suggests that the outbreak was already on the decline. Ben’s favorite part was what one of his undergraduate professors, Anthony Clarke talked about in class 15 years ago: the monks in a local monastery did not get sick because they didn’t drink the water, just home brewed beer. The guys then ended the show talking about an outbreak linked to food service hamburgers made from Wolverine Packing (or Wolverine’s Packing with adamantium slicers and grinders) beef. It’s unclear whether illnesses are linked to undercooked burgers or cross contamination - although anecdotally undercooked burgers have been reported. One of Ben’s graduate student’s Ellen Thomas has been working on a project related directly to this type of product, where secret shoppers have been speaking with servers at burger-serving family style restaurants throughout the U.S. The results of the project will be shared at IAFP in Indianapolis. In after dark the guys chuckle and guffaw about Ben’s Beatles references and Time and Attention and Tony Robbins who Ben thinks is in prison. But he’s

The show opens with Don talking about his visit to the dentist right before the podcast. The conversation turns to Don's dentist and his job satisfaction, and on to other important jobs, like airline pilots. Ben then talks about his talk in Nashville about behavior change and his first visit to the the Conference for Food Protection, which evolves into a discussion of handwashing and hot air hand dryers. The outbreak flashback segment is in the parking lot this week, but a listener question from the Bob and Melinda Gates foundation is not. Before the question is answered however, disco music, video games, author Alan Moore, the movie Mystery Men, the Keith Richards biography and YYZ must all be discussed. Eventually they get around to answering Bob's question regarding recalls and discuss the difference between recalls and market withdrawals From there the discussion moves to a Hershey's soy lethicin recall in Canada, FDA's reportable food registry, a Clostridium perfringens outbreak and a recent article from The Acheson Group blog. The show ends with a Pink Floyd reference, and in the After Dark, Don discusses the hazel app on his Mac.

The show opened with a long discussion of various philosophical issues relating to careers in Academia, followed by a brief diversion into gutter cleaning drones, comiXology, and the new TV show Silicon Valley. Ben shared he has been listening to Gord Downie, The Sadies, And The Conquering Sun. Downie will be familiar to FST podcast listeners as the Canadian rock musician, writer, occasional actor who is the lead singer and lyricist for the Canadian rock band The Tragically Hip. Don noted that he had backed the new Lee 'Scratch' Perry Album kickstarter project. In the follow up segment the guys noted that a new show noter was still needed, before moving on to a listener question from Jon Kimble about the protective effect of wine in foodborne disease outbreaks. Ben also talked about his experiences at a raw milk conference he attended in Canada. Fortunately for Ben, Dave Semenko was not needed. The Outbreak flashback segment of the show flash all the way back to the 1981 listeriosis outbreak linked to coleslaw made from cabbage fertilized with sheep manure. Ben noted that sheep were also one among many possible Listeria sources in Jensen farms outbreak, as also indicated by fashion plate and Apple guy, Dr. Lawrence Goodridge quoted in the story. Ben wanted to talk about Hep A and Tevana, when the show finally started, because he is a mall rat. This led to a discussion about Hepatitis A vaccinations for Foodservice workers. While it might not be "cost effective", it still might be the right thing to do. The discussion then turned to sous vide cooking, and a new product on the market, and Don's interactions with the reviewed.com reviewers as well as the product manufacturers in the comments. Don was less successful in leaving comments on a recent sous vide NPR blog post, but thanks to Doug, Don was able to weigh in on barfblog. Don then quizzed Ben (who is from Canada), regarding whether he now lives in the South. The show ended with a mention of the passing of noted self experimenter Seth Roberts, including the predictable reaction from hacker news. More on his cause of death has been provided on his blog, posted after FST recorded.

The guys started the show by sharing some family traditions including watching Jeopardy and drinking Rooibos tea. They then discussed some raw milk questions posed by raw milk producer. Don suggested that there was specific scientific evidence to answer many of them. He also wondered about the scientific basis of some of the information presented in a recent RMI webinar. Don then shared that he'll be podcast cheating again on an upcoming Raw Food Real Talk episode on cottage food. The guys then transitioned to a recent cheese related Listeriosis outbreak affecting members of the Hispanic community. While health authorities have released some information on illnesses and the product there are many questions that are still to be answered. After a false start and then covering the last part of the IAFP History, the 2000's, Ben put out a call to listeners for important outbreaks and food safety landmarks that Ben and Don could discuss in the upcoming Outbreak Flashback segment. It will be groovy. And have a disco theme. The guys then turned to pizza and Alton Brown, who Don went to see live. Alton had dropped the pizza base before cooking it and that got Don worried about what message this was sending. Ben was amused by Alton's Twitter feed and fascinated by his earlier career. While on the pizza topic, Ben found some really stretched science reporting of this research article. The press release reminded the guys of Betteridge's law of headlines. The answer is always no. The discussion of media reminded Don of this Andrew Gelman post about how to get your university press release reprinted by The Washington Post. Don concluded that the best practices for engaging people are also despicable. Ben suggested sometimes science-types need to go to where people are engaged and sort of play the same game. To quote Merlin Mann from 43 Folders: "Joining a Facebook group about creative productivity is like buying a chair about jogging." To finish off, Ben raised the issue of consumers not following label instructions, as was the case with E. coli in Nestle Toll House Cookie Dough. Ben wanted to know how consumers learn about products and how to use those products. In the after dark the guys covered Picturelife, and Siri not having what Don was looking for, which he posted on Facebook.

The guys started the show following up on the previous episode, the write up on David Gumpert's website and the comments on the Internet. Theresa Lam also reached out wanting to know more about the risks associated with bootleg versus regulated raw milk. Despite raw milk drinker's hatred of epidemiologists, Don confessed that maybe he wants to be an epidemiologist, while Ben noted that he has admired them ever since the Jalapeno Saintpaul outbreak. Don also praised Petran, White and Hedberg, for their efforts to identify what items in a restaurant inspection were predictive of the possibility of an outbreak, and Ben's comments to USA Today on the topic. A quick round of "I think you're thinking of" with Howard Dean, and Roger Dean, not to be confused with Roger Dean followed. The guys then hopped back in time with the whizzinator before moving on to food storage mistakes and tortilla safety as prompted by Listener John Kimble. The guys covered the 1990's in the IAFP history segment, which also featured a discussion of 808, the Beastie Boys and the speed of Joe Walsh's Maserati. Ben identified the 1990's with the adoption of PFGE and rapid methods, while Don though the Mega Regs characterized the time. Ben recalled a recent discussion with Cathy Cutter about meat processing and how HACCP shaped other food safety regulations. The discussion then turned to Norovirus, prompted by a couple of recent noro outbreaks on the "Explorer of the Seas" and the Caribbean Princess, the boat that Chris Gunter boarded. Unfortunately, Chris couldn't find out whether the hand sanitizer on the ship was the one that works, though he was assured that it was "alcohol based". Ben wrapped up the noro discussion with the MoChunk resort outbreak. The guys talked about Netflix in the short after dark.

The guys started the show with a teaser about a guest later in the show and reminisced about past guests Mike Batz, Chris Gunter, Michelle Danyluk and the infamous Andreas Kiermeier. The guys then followed up on cashew cheese (FST 53) and how to reach food entrepreneurs about hazards an risk management and resources like NECFE or the NMPAN. The guys then wondered about selling food (unregulated) over the Internet, possibly for Bitcoin, and the Swiss Cheese Pervert. And Don remembered Mary's name. Then David Gumpert (The Complete Patient) came onto the show. David has written about raw milk and food rights including "The Raw Milk Revolution: Behind America's Emerging Battle over Food Rights" and "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Food Rights: The Escalating Battle Over Who Decides What We Eat". The guys invited David to come on the show as a follow-up to FST 53, Raw Milk Hampsterdam, and David's critique of it. For audiences most interested in raw milk topics, the conversation with David begins at 25:30. Discussion topics the group touched on included raw milk and consumer choice, including the Raw Milk Institute, David's follow-up post and the Real Food Real Talk - Raw Milk Revealed, the Minnesota study, CDC's Estimation Methods and Attribution of Foodborne Illness, FDA's raw milk risk assessment and failure to attend an IAFP sponsored raw milk meeting. In the after dark, which begins around 1:30:00, Don and Ben talked about Evernote, Habits, Shackelton Death or Glory, and Plan 9 from Outer Space.

The show started with Don sharing his recent [Systematic](http://5by5.tv/systematic/76) experience. Ben then wanted some help with a prevalence calculation, as prompted by his undergraduate lecturer [Ronald Brooks](http://www.uoguelph.ca/ib/people/faculty/brooks.shtml). The guys then reminisced about their high school teachers before turning on the freezing weather and frozen food, thanks to [AFFI-CON 2014](http://afficon.affi.org/). In answer to a listener question on the 4-hour rule, Don shared his [recent JFP paper](http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/iafp/jfp/2013/00000076/00000006/art00023). Similar calculations (also by Don) have been used by a Conference for Food Protection (CFP) committee to develop guidance on lack of temperature control during emergency situations. That guidance will be presented as part of the [2014 CFP](http://www.foodprotect.org/). Thanks to the book ["I Wear the Black Hat"](http://www.amazon.com/Wear-Black-Hat-Grappling-Villains/dp/1439184496), Ben has really gotten back into heavy metal, especially [Metallica](https://www.metallica.com/), while Don's been re-reading [The Sandman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman_(Vertigo)). This got the guys into a discussion of [DC Comics](http://www.dccomics.com/) versus [Marvel Comics](http://marvel.com/). In the IAFP History segment the guys covered the 1980's, which saw the introduction of new technologies, like vacuum packaging and irradiation, the emergence of new pathogens, such as [*E. coli* O157:H7](http://www.about-ecoli.com/), [*Listeria monocytogenes*](http://www.about-listeria.com/) and [*Campylobacter*](http://www.about-campylobacter.com/), as well as [zero tolerance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_tolerance_(trade)). The guys then speculated about the [*Salmonella* Stanley outbreak linked to raw cashew cheese](http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/stanley-01-14/index.html), before turning their attention to the [Fox and Donkey meat scandal in China](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/print/2014/01/chinas-latest-food-scandal-fox-tainted-donkey-meat/282776/) and the [potential zoonotic food safety risks associated with foxes](http://www.vef.unizg.hr/vetarhiv/papers/2006-76-7-10.pdf). Ben then got a buzz from the [12 Surprising things you can make with a coffee pot](http://www.buzzfeed.com/arielknutson/surprising-things-you-can-make-with-a-coffee-pot), because it reminded of his college days. He's considering including the [poaching chicken in a coffee maker](http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/08/macgyver-chef-poached-chicken-and-couscous-in-a-coffee-maker/) as part of the dishwasher cooking research project discussed on earlier episodes. While there was plenty of wacky stuff on the interwebs over the holidays, [this Wall Street Journal article about a frog in a Pret A Manger salad](http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/12/30/dead-frog-found-in-pret-a-manger-salad/) got Don all jumpy about Pret A Manger's knowledge about pesticides and food safety. The guys finished the show discussing the Food Safety News article on "[How to Break a Foodborne Illness Story](http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/01/publishers-platform-how-to-break-a-foodborne-illness-story/)." In the after dark, Ben shared his work habits and this turned into a discussion of Don and Ben's favourite [Starbucks](http://www.starbucks.com/). The guys then shared some movies and TV shows they like, including [Saving Mr Banks](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2140373/), [American Hustle](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1800241/?ref_%3Dfn_al_tt_1), [Back to the Future](http://www.universalstudiosentertainment.com/back-to-the-future-25th-anniversary-edition/) (I, II and III), [Honey, I shrunk the Kids](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097523/), [Despicable me](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1323594/), [Call the Midwife](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_the_Midwife) and [Last Tango in Halifax](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2216156/).

The guys battled Skype and CallRecorder, got bedazzled by The Smashing Pumpkins, got a twitter buzz from Beyonce's album, and got lathered up with FDA's focus on antibacterial soaps. They then shared some additional information they received from Cheryl Doom from the American Spice Trade Association (ASTA) on the spice story in FST 52. Cheryl explained why ASTA didn't have a response to the FDA risk assessment as reported in this NYT article and shared a guidance document ASTA had prepared in 2011. The discussion then turned to yet another pruno-related botulism outbreak in a Utah prison. Pruno has been discussed in FST 27 and the investigation of that outbreak has just been published in this paper, including the experimental Pruno recipe. In the IAFP History segment, Don shared Manan Sharma's article on the 1970's, which marked changes to food consumption, food safety and environmental trends, including HACCP and microwaves. After a short 1970's detour to Jack Kirby's Fourth World Omnibus Vol 1, Ben marveled about the advances in microwave technology, including the magnetron. While Ben's new microwave exceeded his cooking expectation, Trader Joe's cooking instructions for Mac & Cheese fell short. In contrast to Trader Joe's, who don't have a social media presence, Don did like Publix who asked for a haiku on Twitter. Don then shared his latest irritation with Fightbac.org. It was prompted by their latest campaign called Bac Down and the misinformation that Listeria monocytogenes can grow at temperatures as low 32 deg F and not 40 deg F. The guys challenged listeners to send in their creative Bac-themed puns for great prices! Ben then wanted to talk about meat in pants, or more specifically Jeffery Arthur Feehan who tried to shoplift meat in his pants. But Ben wasn't quite so worried simply because store employees put the meat back on the shelf (a big yuck factor!), but that Jeffrey took the meat to the restroom for his pants stuffing misdemeanor. Jeffrey's comment to the judges reminded Ben of a famous Animal House quote. The discussion then turned to a recent paper on Raw Milk Consumption. While the underreporting aspect got some publicity, Ben was worried that all the information wasn't going to change people's mind. This had been highlighted in this article on Michigan consumers of raw milk and that's got to do with raw milk proponents not trusting health officials. Ben then remembered the "The Abuela project", an example of an innovative approach to overcoming the difficulty of developing successful education campaigns. The challenge of course is how to develop a campaign when raw milk sales are illegal (as is the case in some states). Maybe a Raw Milk Hamsterdam is the solution?

The guys started the show dreaming about a Red Mac Pro. They then turned to the passing of Bill Keene. Bill has been mentioned in various FST episodes and was a well respected epidemiologist as seen in the articles by the Oregonian and Doug Powell. The guys then turned to their beverages, Coffee Club, Napoleon Dynamite, Homeland, and Car Talk. Ben shared his preference for Aussie Rule football and Arcade Fire's album Reflektor. The conversation then turned to Don's limited iPhone music library, Privateering and Dire Straights, which reminded Ben of Money for Nothing and WWE Wrestling (not WWF Wrestling). To finish they talked about Christmas music, Bad Religion's Christmas Songs, Coulton and Roderick's One Christmas at a Time and Horrible Christmas songs. Ben confused IAFP's History with Bug Trivia and shared Julian Cox's information about the 1960's, and this evolved into a broader discussion about the IAFP and its membership. The discussion then turned back to Bill Keene and some of the outbreaks he had been involved in. This included a Salmonella Panama outbreak (not to be confused with Van Halen's Panama), which was the first outbreak that was solved through the innovative use of supermarket loyalty cards and that Bill and others were sued for (the lawsuit was eventually dropped.. The guys then discussed outbreak investigation in some detail and that public health officials are damned if they do and damned if they don't name commodities and suppliers. There is of course always a risk of getting the epidemiology wrong, as was the case with Salmonella Saintpaul in peppers. Finally, Bill's investigation of a Norovirus outbreak reminded Ben of a recent Norovirus outbreak in Las Vegas. Then Ben commented on an exchange with Chris Gunter, who was presenting on traceability for small producers at the 2013 Strawberry Expo. Chris' presentation is based on the investigation of an E. coli O157 outbreak related to strawberries, in which Bill Keene played a part. In the after dark, the guys reflected on mortality and that we should all Enjoy Every Sandwich. And because they love him, Rob Ford got a mention again and again.

The guys started the show with a Flamingo flash back, Don’s iTunes Radio “Grateful Dead” channel experiment (sans Katy Perry and Kanye West), New Girl with Zooey Deschanel, She & Him, Steve Earle, The Walking Dead, the Pulling the String podcast, and The Lone Ranger. Don then shared how he used the Internet’s way-back machine (not to be confused with Mister Peabody’s WABAC Machine) to get around the black-out of US government websites. Ben then turned to an NPR article about the Niche Meat Processor Assistance Network and a Kickstarter campaign to create an open source HACCP plan. This lead into a broader discussion of the work undertaken by extension specialists, Don’s ‘useless’ Twitter exchange and how to find out about food safety using Let Me Google That For You. In the Food Safety History segment, Don shared information from the IAFP History book about the 1950’s and an increased focus on preventing foodborne illness. Don then returned to his recent Twitter exchange about hand washing with @Frankly and @danbenjamin, which included this article from About.com. The article, which referenced unpublished work from 2000 by Barbara Almanza on hand sanitizers, got the guys fired up about the regulatory system and undertaking effective research on the assessing the efficacy of hand sanitizers. After taking yet another detour into the world of The Wire, the guys returned to hand sanitizers and discussed some research articles, including: Effectiveness of Liquid Soap and Hand Sanitizer against Norwalk Virus on Contaminated Hands Improved inactivation of nonenveloped enteric viruses and their surrogates by a novel alcohol-based hand sanitizer Comparative efficacy of seven hand sanitizers against murine norovirus, feline calicivirus, and GII.4 norovirus Management of Risk of Microbial Cross-Contamination from Uncooked Frozen Hamburgers by Alcohol-Based Hand Sanitizer To finish this monster show, the guys briefly touched on Foster Farms fiasco, which they’ve kept on their list of things to discuss next time. By the time the after dark came around Don was contemplating a career in pottery, while Ben favored rolling cigars for a living.

The show started with Don and Ben sharing their love for iOS7 and iTunes Radio. Ben's still on his Beach Boys trip, having recently watched Beautiful Dreamer. The discussion then quickly turned to food safety follow up. Ben wasn't happy with his Food Safety News interview on dishwasher cooking and the message that he might have sent. Don felt that a really important aspect was the multitude of variables that can change from one dishwasher to another and hence that it was difficult be safe. The guys then discussed some listener feedback about safety of low sugar jellies, which was related to the work of one of Don's master's student. The listener commended the work on low sugar jellies, which will help provide important information to existing Cottage Food Guidelines. The guys then delved into the effects of water activity, pH, sugar contents for the safety of the preserving process and how some products, such as the Cronut Maple Jam, fall far outside the known safe zone. This got Ben onto the Toronto Public Health investigation update on the Cronut Burger outbreak, which was related to the already risky jam not being refrigerated by the producer or the vendor who purchased it. Don then gave Amy Jane Gruber, from Just The Tip podcast, a plug for her participation in the Fare Walk for Food Allergy. You might even hear her on a future FST episode. In the Food Safety History segment, Don shared the initial editorial from the journal of milk technology, which while written in 1937 still resonates strongly with today's food safety activities. Ben then described personal challenge he has urinating in his office building without getting splash back. This reminded the guys of the aerosolization in the bathroom and potential risk that this can pose. Ben then recalled the UPI story about a Swedish man urinating on supermarket produce. While urine is normally sterile, Ben wondered about the risks. While Don couldn't quantify the risk on the spot, he noted that in HACCP terms hand washing after a bowel movement was a CCP while after peeing it could be considered a GHP. But both agreed that sick workers just shouldn't be at work. The discussion then turned to raw milk cheeses, which was prompted by the Gort's Gouda raw milk cheese related outbreak in Canada. Don noted that the rate of inactivation in a particular product was more important that just a '60-day limit' say. That's because the final risk is integrally related to the starting concentration and the inactivation rate. To finish off the podcast Don wanted to talk about the Food Safety News article on food date labels, which was based on this NRDC work. While Don agreed that date labels were confusing, he was also rather sceptical of the underlying work. In the after dark, the guys talked about the new markdown format for the shownotes and planned their podcasting schedules for the next few episodes.

The guys started the show with some general chit chat about The Beer Store and [The Nail Shop](http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-nail-shop-omaha), the [Beach Boys](http://www.thebeachboys.com/), including "[Pet Sounds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Sounds)", Chuck Berry, [Bed Bad Baaaaaaatz](http://badbatz.tumblr.com/), Don's [Etymotic hf5 earphones](http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/hf5.html), Twitter, (including [this discussion](https://twitter.com/bugcounter/status/373254508580573184)), and [Barbara M. O'Neill](http://njaes.rutgers.edu/personnel/individual.asp?id%3D416)'s great work. Prompted by a [link](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2398775/30-C-laundry-cycles-breed-bacteria-transfer-germs-underwear-tea-towels.html) from Alejandro Amezquita the guys then turned their attention to laundry and in the process gave the phrase "Eat My Shorts!"meaning. In the article, [Lisa Ackerley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Ackerley) discussed the hygiene of laundering. The guys recalled a couple of research articles by Chuck Gerba related to the topic ([here](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0043135491900969) and [here](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163445301908527)). Neither Don nor Ben were particularly worried about this. This reminded Ben of [The Salt article](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/08/25/214799882/dishwasher-cooking-make-your-dinner-while-cleaning-the-plates) on cooking food in the dishwasher. The guys discussed the potential risk of this approach and the sciences that is needed. Another [The Salt article on washing poultry had also resulted in a large amount of social media engagement, which is something the Don and Ben are always keen to explore. And both enjoyed Alton Brown's proper method for washing out th inside of a whole poultry. The guys then moved onto the bug trivia replacement segment called Food Safety History, in honour of a 100 years of the IAFP Journal of Food Protection. In this episode the Don covered the [pre 1940 era](http://www.foodprotection.org/100years/articles/100-yrs-of-iafp-pre-1940.pdf). It all started with the Journal of Milk Technology and the connection with raw milk reminded Ben of this [Toronto Star article](http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/09/30/two_crusaders_a_competing_cause_ontarios_raw_milk_saga.html). Don then wanted to talk about this [NY Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/28/world/asia/farmers-change-over-spices-link-to-food-ills.html), related to *Salmonella* in spices, and the related [Food Microbiology article](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0740002012002171). Don posed Ben the questions that he was asked for a Q&A based Rutgers media release on this topic and the guys compared their answers. The guys then got fired up about the [Cronut Burger related outbreak article by [Jason Tetro](http://www.foodsafetynews.com/author/jtetro/#.UidMtBabS0s). Ben didn't quite agree with some of Jason's assumptions, so Ben queried the manufacturers about the parameters of the product, which [Le Dolci didn't know](https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid%3D10153155762045720&id%3D305381935719). Ben eventually found the answer from Toronto Public Health, and was able to set the record straight To finish off, Don mentioned [The New Disruptors](http://newdisrupt.org/) podcast, which featured [Marisa McClellan](http://foodinjars.com/) in Episode 38 "Yes, we can!"talk about food preservation. Don was pleasantly surprised by her knowledge, including of the National Center for Home Food Preservation. In the after dark the guys continued with canning, including [Canvolution](https://twitter.com/Canvolution), [Canning Across America](http://www.canningacrossamerica.com/) and pink flamingos for their 50th episode.

The guys started by talking about their office and home podcasting set-ups; how Don inspired his son Zac, podcast sponsorship (thanks Dr. Indian Clarified Butter); the Food Science short course at Rutgers; MC-ing; Ben’s wedding; and, customer service at Frito Lay’s and General Mills. In the bug trivia segment the guys talked about the protozoan parasite Toxoplasma gondii, recently reviewed by Beniamino and colleagues. T. gondii was ranked the second worst pathogen in terms of quality adjusted life years (QALY) by Mike Batz (guest on FST 4) and colleagues, and recently featured on Back to Work. The discussion took a short detour to food thermometers, including the PDT 300, iGrill, and ThermaPen, before coming around to the retiring Pete Snyder, from HI-TM. Pete is held in high regard by both Ben and Don, not only because he wasn’t afraid to ask questions, like Don did in the comment exchange to the Snapper barfblog article. Thanks to Pete’s guidance Ben is always seeking the primary information for creating his Infosheets. A classic example of Pete’s drive for the scientific justification relates to the information produced on thawing poultry at ambient temperatures, which was picked up by barfblog. Ben then talked about the CDC report on the tempeh related outbreak discussed in FST 18. He found it interesting that many of the illnesses appeared to be caused by cross-contamination rather than consumption of the contaminated, unpasteurized tempeh. Don was bummed that his own work wasn’t cited by the CDC, but he noted that Michelle’s recent work showed that cross-contamination was facilitated by moisture. This then turned into a broader discussion around managing risks in a food service setting. Don then wanted to hear Ben’s thoughts about Bill Marler’s question on what cantaloupe and baseball have in common. Bill’s suggestion to change the incentives had the flavor of a Modest Proposal, but without the satire. Ben agreed that retailers and restaurants should be held responsible, as without them there isn’t enough pressure on the suppliers. The guys then discussed third party audits and the setting of supplier standards. Both agreed that the current system doesn’t work how it should and that proper data analysis could provide significant insights. In the after dark the guys talked about Ben’s upcoming trip to Brazil, the PCV show, food safety a-holes, Mexican wrestling masks, the Conference for Food Protection councils, laws and sausages, and getting hurt at the doctor's office.

During their podcasting foreplay don and Ben discussed their breakfast choices, their love for guacamole (despite the risks associated with cilantro), and the challenge of separating work from private life. The guys then got onto the recent IAFP annual meeting (abstracts are here), which clearly was a huge success. Ben was impressed by Michelle Danyluk’s deconstruction of the FSMA Fresh Produce rule to create a really convincing story, which included work Don and Michelle had published. Ben then talked about the symposium on Farmers markets[AK1] , which he’s done work on. He really enjoyed Erin Jobe’s talk about the realities of the Carrboro Farmer’s Market, which reminded Ben of the need to expose food safety nerds to the world of small food producers. Lastly, the guys talked about the round table discussion on “Bridging Gaps between Scientific Assessment of Risk and Public Perception” which was reported on Barfblog and Food Safety News. And of course, IAFP would not be a great meeting if there wasn’t Karaoke involved. Moving on from IAFP, Don noted that he’s following John Gruber and Merlin Mann's advice and is podcasting for just one person, Chuck Hass. Turns out that Chuck also sent an email about an upcoming publication on the dose-response curve for Helicobacter pylori (see FST 45). Ben then recalled the conversation about the Salmonella outbreak associated with the Holiday Inn and the article he wrote on Barfblog. Ben queried why employees wouldn’t tell management that they were sick but would tell the health department? Both Don and Ben concluded that it’s surely related to not getting paid while being off work! The discussion then turned to the Cyclospora messiness and that there is disagreement between the epidemiologists. While there is lots of bad advice out there, the most recent information indicates a link to prewashed salad mix to Taylor Farms de Mexico, though this information wasn’t available when ACSH reported that the “mystery was solved". The guys also noted Bill Marler’s interesting thoughts about disclosure as well as why naming a product too early can have consequences. The guys also re-iterating that washed fresh-cut salads don’t need additional washing. To finish off, Ben wanted to talk about Jimmy John’s who are looking at bringing back sprouts, but that they are considering this warning sign. Don felt that this approach was nonsense and that the risks of eating still outweigh the risks of not eating. Instead Don wanted to know about Jimmy John’s food safety program, such as Bob Sanderson’s approach at Jonathan Sprouts. However, from a risk communication perspective Ben wasn’t against the label though he felt that it could be improved. In the after dark the guys talked about Don’s video call with IFT, his appearance on SSKTN’s Show me your Mic (including the After Show me your Mic), preschool and the Food Safety Talk newsletter.

Ben had difficulty talking while eating, which didn’t matter too much while the guys discussed the weather. A link from fan Erin (see also barfblog coverage), on the emerging food-safety-expose genre got Don and Ben warmed up for the show. To follow up from FST 44, Ben’s H. pylori issues have been resolved, though one of his hockey friends had an interesting story involving yogurt. The guys then followed up on the mechanically tenderized beef discussion from FST 43 and FST 44, and a bit about Ben’s grad student’s research plan. The guys then took a pop culture detour thanks to Ben worrying about peaking to early (research wise speaking), which remind Don of a Dan Bern’s Tiger Wood song. The discussion also covered Sound City, and some Australian pop-culture with Muriel's Wedding and The Castle. In the bug trivia segment the guys focused on Vibrio parahaemolyticus, which is the other fast growing bacterium (c.f. FST 39) and can double every 7 minutes under optimal conditions. Don was familiar with this organism as he’s published about the effects of lime juice on V. parahaemolyticus in ceviche. The guys then tossed around some ideas for a follow up segment for when they run out of bugs for bug trivia which included using the IAFP 100 year celebration materials. The discussion then turned to a Food Safety News articles on the NC Farm Bill and Ben thought that there might be some unintended consequences to this Bill. The guys then discussed the broader issues related to the risks of producing food, especially produce, and what this means for liability. The guys agreed that in some cases there just aren’t identifiable contributing factors, such as in the Fayetteville outbreak, and contemplated that this might differ in terms of liability compared to a case where there is clear negligence. The focus then shifted to chickens, which was prompted by this paper in Journal of Food Safety. The rates of Campylobacter and Salmonella found on chickens purchased from farmer’s markets and supermarkets were similarly high. Don was also interested in a link shared by Andreas about raw chicken hand towel, especially because of the comments posted to it. To finish off the chicken theme the guys talked about a Salmonella Heidelberg outbreak linked to a single poultry producer. But the industry and USDA have been vewy, vewy quiet! Ben’s watching The Newsroom again and in the after dark the guys were frustrated by their iTunes ratings and that Carl Winter and even a dog food safety podcast episode was rating higher. Ben also shared the sacrifices he has to make to get new hockey skates. The guys finished off with a trail mix inspired Best in Show, Family Tree, Launch Bar and Food Safety Talk shirts. ​

The show started with Mr. Roboto, Brazilian Cheese Bread, the upcoming IAFP’s annual meeting in Charlotte, and StoryCorps (not to be confused with Adventure Time). At the IAFP meeting Ben will be stuffing bags at the Food Lion and Don will try to control the unruly Dr. Harris at her first board meeting. The guys then celebrated Canada Day with some pop culture such as The Tragically Hip, Rheostatics and Frampton Comes Alive! (as featured on FST 1), and Reality Bites. Ben and Don then turned their attention to Helicobacter pylori. Ben reported having had a belch inducing H. pylori infection, which was diagnosed by a breath test. It reminded Ben of Don’s asymptomatic H. pylori infection. Don wondered how Ben got exposed to H. pylori and whether it may have been foodborne, which Ben agreed was a possibility. In fact, Helicobacter pylori and Food Products indicates that the organism can also be widespread in some drinking water supplies. Don also noted an article on “Assessing the Risks and Benefits of Treating Helicobacter pylori Infection" which pointed at the possible commensal role of H. pylori. The discussion moved from gastrointestinal microflora, to soil and water microflora and ecology and the impact of microflora on safety of the produce grown in different areas. This turned into a broader discussion of farming and extension and the need for multifunctional teams, such as NoroCore and STEC CAP. In FST episode 43 the guys discussed the silliness of washing bananas, and Ben found yet another ridiculous article on the same topic. Don pointed out the lack of epidemiological evidence linking foodborne illness with bananas, though he recognized that “absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.” The earlier conversation about bananas prompted Don to post humorous photos of the individually wrapped bananas he found in the United Lounge at São Paulo airport. Don then shared an email from listener ‘Deep South’ who was wondering where mechanically tenderized beef was being sold. An FMI survey of the membership indicated that none of the responding members sold this type of beef. So while it appears that the product is predominantly sold through food service, Ben noted the lack of epidemiological evidence connecting illness outbreaks with food service. The guys then turned their attention to the Townsend Farm related Hepatitis A outbreak, which FDA has now linked to Pomegranate seeds. Ben applauded Bill Keene for focusing on employees first. Ben shared his thoughts about handling of pomegranate seeds and how they could become contaminated with Lynne Terry via Twitter. But are other producers learning from this and asking their suppliers the right questions? In the after dark the guys discussed Ben’s tenure application. Good luck, Ben.

Don is now a VIP in Brazil, at least as measured by Internet speed, while Ben was trying to get some grad students onto the interwebs. The guys then talked a bit about pop culture and follow up, including how John Oliver is stepping into 'The Daily Show’, Don’s TiVo usage, Adventure Time on Netflix and Poop and Produce. The guys felt a little challenged by their rapid recording schedule, having only recorded a show a few days ago, and syncing their notes for the show using Dropbox. Don shared his podcast equipment challenges and some of his São Paulo photos (such as this, this and this). Ben shared his own peaceful Sunday morning experiences and the awesome Australian Laborastory. In the Bug Trivia segment the guys covered Trichinella spiralis. This little nematode is also known as the ‘pork worm’ though it is no longer commonly found in pork in developed countries. Ben likes this little critter and uses it to illustrate great public health communications that resulted in pork generally being cooked overly well. And Don was proud of the small role he played in getting the safe cooking temperature changed for chicken. The guys then shifted from overcooked pork to undercooked beef burgers. Ben shared some of the work his summer students were doing on ordering burgers and the risk information that is provided by serving staff. Don described how he would calculate the risk of illness from consuming a burger that was cooked to 145°F (62.7°C), something that the inquisitive Marge Perry was interested in. Ben noted that the USDA was going to implement a labeling rule for mechanically tenderized meat and the guys were happy to take the credit for this change. But they were the disappointed by other food safety failures going on around the country, such as the large outbreak related to Firefly restaurant. The guys seriously question the food safety practices at Firefly given the large number of foods associated with the outbreak. But applause went to the public health folks for being very quick in releasing the outbreak investigation reports.

Don rang in from São Paulo, Brazil, where he is spending some time thanks to a project funded by Scientists without Borders and managed by the Godfather (Godmother?) of the Brazilian Food Safety Mafia Bernadette Franco. But podcasting away from home is proving to be more challenging that he had imagined, especially when he leaves his computer in his hotel room. The guys announced the new “subscribe” feature on the Food Safety Talk website where listeners can subscribe to a email newsletter and share the show via various platforms. This prompted the guys to talk about their social media practices. iTunes ratings and sponsorship inquires are always welcome! Ben the shared his recent trip to Nebraska for STEC CAP Grant meetings and his tornado experiences. This included a discussion of mechanically tenderized beef and how FSIS is poised to release a labeling rule for these products (similar to Canada’s labeling regime discussed in FST 41). The guys discussed John Luchansky’s research and the actual versus theoretical risks of blade and needle tenderized beef. In the Bug Trivia segment the guys talked about E. coli O157:H7. A 1994 outbreak linked to fermented dry salami resulted in research by the same Luchansky, then at Food Research Institute (FRI), to assess the effect of USDA Method No. 7 (not Mambo No 5) on food safety. Ben commented that he had just finished Jeff Benedict’s book Poisoned, which is about the 1993 Jack-in-the-Box E. coli O157:H7 outbreak and both Ben and Don agreed that this was an important and easy read for anyone working in the food industry. The guys then talked about some other interesting food related books, including Cooked, Salt Sugar Fat and Catching Fire. Ben shared some information about relevant NC state regulations in relation to supplemental cooking rooms in North Carolina and Amazing Ribs got a special BBQ mention. While still on the E. coli O157 and BBQ theme, the guys then turned their attention to an E. coli O157 outbreak related to Georgia BBQ Shack. While iced tea, which the CDC knew could have high levels of bacteria back in 1996, has been on Don’s radar since the IAFP 2011 symposium on the safety of fountain-dispensed beverages. The guys then turned their attention to The Pueblo Chieftain article on clean, cook, and chill. The nonsense in this article made the guys so angry. Since when does washing bananas make a difference (unless you eat the peel) and whatever happened to cross-contamination and temperature control (think cantaloupes)? Don thought that one way of getting the message out was to present at conferences and publish in journals of organizations such as NEHA or NACCHO, or bring the environmental health folks to attend IAFP. In the after dark the guys talked about TabLinks, Brazilian VISA requirements, Carol Wallace (of HACCP: A Practical Approach fame), Daft Punk (👍👍) and The National (👎).

Don shared that he’s been flogging the podcast mercilessly during his recent travels. The guys then launched straight into the Bug Trivia segment, highlighting Clostridium perfringens, which can be a big problem particularly for meat processors who need to cool large cuts of cooked meat quickly (to meet the FSIS performance standard). Carl Custer’s notes indicate that it was infamous for causing gas gangrene. During cooking of meat the spores germinate and these can grow incredibly fast if the rate of cooling is inadequate. Luckily it generally doesn’t cause death, but can cause a potentially fatal disease called pig-bel especially in countries where cooked meat is held at room temperature for long periods of time. Ben has developed some food safety infosheets for this organism, including this one detailing an outbreak linked to a school event. The guys then turned their attention to baked goodies and that some things on the Internet are not true. Don referred to one of those typical urban legend emails warning people to discard their out-of-date pancake and cake mixes for risk of causing anaphylactic allergic reactions. Turns out that there is some truth to the matter as you can see from Snopes and this scientific article “An unusual case of anaphylaxis. Mold in pancake mix.” While there are some incorrect aspects to the story, Don would always advise people to not use food that has passed its best or sell by date because of the lower quality (the dates are there for a reason). The conversation then turned to canning as Ben, the self-proclaimed Canning King of Wake County NC, recently received a question about canning mushrooms. While the email appeared to be about quality, Ben’s concern was Clostridium botulinum (see bug trivia in FST 39) and hence he elevated this email to an 11 on the 1 to 10 scale. So, Ben passed on information on canning mushrooms from the National Center for Home Food Preservation. Don was also dealing with canning questions and was worried about people fiddling with established jam recipes for fear of a repeat of what happened in Cowichan with watermelon jelly. Ben then went on a Salmonella-fuelled hazelnut caper – he was grumpy about the lack of supplier information provided by the CFIA, although Lynne Terry from The Oregonian managed to find it out. Ben felt this information could be important to other distributers who would be able to make better decisions (provided they had the right food safety culture). Don noted that weenie public health folk, such as Dr. Eric Wilke, had Doug all fired up. Dr Wilke’s antics at the press conference turned serious foodborne illness outbreak into bizarre theater. Not cool, dude. The Salmonella outbreak from Fayetteville Hotelon the I-95 reminded Don of FST 11 and the guys discussed some of the ill-informed responses of public health officials after food borne illness outbreaks. Don and Ben then turned their attention to needle tenderized beef, which was prompted by the MeatingPlace opinion about this Consumer Reports article. While James Marsden was against labeling of mechanically tenderized beef, Canada has already moved to such a labeling requirement, although Doug had some questions about it. Ben had managed to find some research on cooking inoculated and mechanically tenderized beef, although the debate about it is ongoing. Both Ben and Don would prefer to have this type of product clearly labeled, although their preference is for naturally tender and flavorsome beef cuts (such as MSA graded beef). In the after dark the guys talked about Don’s upcoming trip to Brazil and Denmark, and Ben's trip to Nebraska.

The guys started the show with some news and general chit chat, including hockey, an article about fighting bacteria with mucus, Linked In (perhaps the creepiest social network), Don’s Silver Beaver Award, surely a ’Major Award’, and the TV they are watching: Arrested Development, Adventure Time and Game of Thrones. The new ‘Food is the New Rock’ podcast (suggested by fan of the show Brian Sauder - @BSauders) that provides a blend of food and music topics, reminded Ben of this Freganism Barfblog article. Don then mentioned some interesting work The University of Iowa Computational Epidemiology Group was working on, which was followed by a discussion about IAFP annual conference and IAFP PDGs. The bug trivia segment focused on Staphylococcus aureus, which is ubiquitous in the human and animal buccal cavities. Staph produces a heat resistant enterotoxin in food, famous in part for causing the Chinese canned mushrooms outbreak. Don also noted that S. aureus poisoning was also known as Ptomaine poisoning. The guys then talked about this SciLogs article by Matt Shipman (from Ben and Matt YouTube fame) and why people might not care about grants that have been awarded, but are more interested in research outcomes. The discussion then turned to the Salmonella Saintpaul cucumber outbreak and Ben was surprised by the lack of media coverage this outbreak created. Don noted that cucumbers generally had high microbial counts, as did other fresh produce such as tomatoes and lettuce, and he wondered why there hadn’t been more outbreaks to date. Ben was wondering whether contamination might be related to the water used in greenhouse production, which reminded Don of a recent article on bacteria in surface waters. Don pondered whether high relative humidity in greenhouses might be related to the transfer of pathogens. The NSF’s article on the germiest kitchen items made Don and Ben so angry. They were flabbergasted by the lack of scientific rigor used in the work and in the reporting of it. The ‘helpful’ food safety messages in the article reminded Don of Merlin Mann’s “Old Butchers” post, which mentions the ‘useful’ Lifehacker article on using soap to clean dishes. The guys didn’t feel much better about the Consumer Reports article on ground turkey. They wondered about the low Campylobacter isolation rate and Don shared some concerns about the study that he had also discussed with Marge Perry. Ben and Don congratulated AMI on their spot on public response but they felt that the National Turkey Federation response lived up to its name. In the after dark the guys talked about Emitophobia, Dan Rockey’s research on Chlamydia and Don’s upcoming Brazil trip thanks to Scientists without Borders.

After discussing their podcast companion beverages, the guys got stuck into answering listener Tom’s (whom Ben met at the Consumer Federation of America’s National Food Policy conference) request for guidance on research areas in food safety. Don’s advice was that Tom should follow his passion and from there pick a university or faculty members to work with. This then turned into a broader discussion about education, with a focus on distance and online learning. Don then talked about his attendance at ISGP’s Food Safety, Security, and Defense: Focus on Technologies and Innovations conference in Verona, Italy, which operates under the Chatham House Rules (not to be confused with the Cider House Rules). Don really enjoyed the discussions between the scientific experts and policy makers and he enjoyed meeting Lynn Frewer. Don also talked about his and Dane’s recent visit to GOJO to discuss Dane’s PhD research topic. In the Bug Trivia segment, Ben talked about Clostridium botulinum, the ‘sausage poisoning’ bug, which Ben wrote about recently on Barfblog. The guys thought that tin-foiled potatoes caused unnecessarily large concern because of this outbreak, as most botulism cases are linked to ineffective home canning practices. While Ben had trouble pronouncing nitrosamines, he challenged Andreas to find papers by Gibson and Roberts on Clostridium and cured meats – Andreas found Factors controlling the growth of Clostridium botulinum types A and B in pasteurized, cured meats parts I, II, III, IV, V, and VI. The guys then talked about the Egg Rollie, as Erin wanted to know whether the cooked ‘egg rollie’ could be contaminated by raw egg as it rises. Ben wasn’t too concerned and Don pointed out that while there was a risk, the risks of illness from eating raw eggs were rather low. The conversation then turned to the Listeria and cantaloupes, as FDA was planning to undertake a survey of Listeria monocytogenes in US cantaloupe packing houses (here is the letter sent to the cantaloupe industry). Ben has been organizing industry workshops with Chris Gunter (who appeared on the show in Episode 3) and some others. Ben explained what he would do if he was a producer and FDA were about to visit his packing house for sampling. Don agreed with Ben’s strategy and pointed out that baseline information on pathogen prevalence on produce was needed. However, the guys couldn’t understand why the samples were not also going to be tested for Salmonella, which had been involved in more produce related outbreaks than Listeria. In addition, Don wasn’t convinced that this survey was the best use of public funds. This then reminded Don of a USA Today article on sequestration which included a Doug Powell quote, which Don also posted on his Tumblr stream. Ben sent a shout out to Ashley Chaifetz, a PhD student studying public policy, who wrote a Barfblog post on Salmonella in dog food (and this follow up post) and how she now longer trusted the dog food manufacturer. Finally the guys sent a big thank you to the folks at SHS Design who updated their FST logo for iTunes. In the after dark the guys talked about a couple of iTunes comments, their usual scheduling challenges, a potential guest, "Rappaz R.N. Dainja” and Science Online.

Once again, Skype and Call Recorder weren’t playing nicely for Ben while Don felt a bit like Michael Douglas in the Wonder Boys. Don has been investigating Google Hangouts for running a online live show though Michelle Danyluk didn’t think they could do a live show at IAFP, unless maybe it was in the format of an 80’s dating show, like the one on Mallrats. Ben had some follow up to his son, Jack, vomiting on a Delta plane reported in Episode 37 . While Ben initially thought the etiological agent was Astrovirus (which would make Jack ‘Astro Boy’) he wasn't sure after feeling the effects a week later. It even stopped Ben from fully enjoying the dinner he had at Fire with Michele. Ben then had some follow up about the state ag-gag laws. The guys were concerned about the protective approach instead of being open and transparent. The latter would also help the agriculture industry to create a greater understanding of food production. And sometimes an exposé (or Exposé) can change things for the better. In the new Bug Trivia segment, Don shared some information about Salmonella pulled together by Carl Custer. It turns out that Salmonella was named after a guy who didn’t discover it and after a disease that it didn’t cause – go figure. The discussion then turned to a Cryptosporidia-related outbreak in Bendigo, Australia. Ben felt that the public health messages in the article were conflicting (and incorrect). The guys disagreed with the advice that hand hygiene was important (in this instance) and were more inclined to believe that it was transmitted through swimming pools. In fact, crypto is a hardly little parasite for which alcohol based sanitizers and even chlorine aren’t effective. This reminded Don of a recent hepatitis A scare and an article that was published in the journal of Food Protection entitled “Cost Effectiveness of Vaccinating Food Service Workers against Hepatitis A Infection” which concluded a public health benefit to hospitality workers, but not patrons. This prompted a broader discussion about Hep A infected restaurant staff. The guys then turned from pastry chefs in restaurants to pastry in Greek university canteens. The guys were concerned about the results, though Don’s work on ready-to-eat foods in university canteens shows much, much lower levels. Well, maybe the staff in the Greek university canteens didn’t have time for training, just like the business that took part in a study by Campden BRI, which indicated that food safety training was hampered by lack of time. However, Don and Ben were skeptical about “43% [who] said food safety training was obstructed by the difficulties of checking the effectiveness of training programmes.” Ben then steered to conversation to writing journal articles and Don’s use of contour plots – he clearly is The Boss. Don’s contour plot shows the log increases in Listeria organisms given time and temperature, from which suitable consumer messages can be created. Before signing off, the guys then briefly talked about Doug Powell being fired from Kansas State for bad attendance and Don expressed his gratitude for all of Doug’s work, which helped him enormously over the years. And it looks like Doug’s keen to come on the podcast … so stay tuned. In the after dark, the guys talked about toilet paper dispensers for campers, though Ben’s missing the iPhone holder, and the Apple remote.​

The guys started with some follow up on The Wire, The Newsroom, what colored food does to your poop, Mike Batz’ link to Craig Goldwyn’s Huffington Post article on sprouts, T. gondii in Romanian animals, and F’ed up. Aaron’s email then prompted a discussion about Plague Inc., the CDC’s interest in it and CDC’s own game Solve the Outbreak. The guys were impressed by how progressive the CDC is in terms of social media and new ways of engaging the public. Don then provided some info about HDScores, a company that plans to make Restaurant Inspection Scores from 3100 jurisdictions from the US, Canada and UK widely available. This prompted a discussion about making restaurant scores available to the public in an interpretable way. Ben shared his experiences from a recent trip to Calgary, where his 4 year old son Jack got sick, possibly with Norovirus. Ben was fascinated by Delta Airlines’ approach of dealing with the vomit problem, which involved plastic bags to contain the risk and coffee pods to manage the smell. Don was familiar with the approach thanks to Roderick on the Line. Ben didn’t agree with Delta’s decision to take them off plane first (thus inoculating the plane). It reminded him of two different articles. Both Don and Ben were glad Delta had a plan, even if they didn’t quite agree with the whole plan. Don then wanted to ask Ben about a Meatingplace article by Richard Raymond entitled Is our food safer than five years ago? (free registration needed to read). Ben explained why he didn’t agree with Richard’s arguments. Don agreed and asked aloud about conspiracy theories, not dissimilar from those surrounding New Coke. Don then wanted get Ben’s take on the IFT’s March 2013 media update. In fact both Ben and Don thought that these updates were way over the top and it reminded them of "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons” and Doug Powell’s comment on Barfblog “I'm immediately suspicious of people … who say trust me.” Ben especially didn’t like that organizations say “trust us” and without telling people what the risks are and why they should be trusted. The discussion of food processing reminded Don of Richard Wrangham’s great book "Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human.” The last thing on Ben’s agenda was Doug’s comparison between the porn industry and the food industry, which had resulted in a fair bit of backlash against the legendary Doug. Ben noted that Doug’s point was how the two industries differed in how they manage the risks, which people missed. And boy… you mention porn and people get excited.

After some initial expected Skype problems the guys talked about a range of topics including their favorite beers, Apple phobias, The Wire, about (not) working from home and Telecommuting policies, writing papers using DragonDictate, Don’s Squarespace 6 trial and Ben’s The Newsroom sharing system. The guys then critiqued some obfuscated food safety messages about Listeria put out Partnership for Food Safety Education. The discussion then turned to the horse meat scandal and that audits are a tool rather than the tool. This reminded Don of the Chinese melamine incident and labeling fraud. The guys then took a short podcasting detour to Scott Simpson’s Your Monkey Called article for The Magazine entitled You’re boring. It made them think about the stories they are trying to tell in podcast episodes, blog articles or presentations. This reminded Ben of the story of Ashley’s lack of emotion to a Norovirus outbreak on UNC campus, but we don’t know how she would react to Carolyn Dunn’s story on Food Myths and Memes of no baby carrots. This turned into a chat about kale, Brussels sprouts, beets, asparagus and bodily functions. Ben then shared his surprise of reading about accelerated aging canned food, which prompted Don to think about a couple of early food science books – Ted Labuza’s “Shelf-Life Dating of Foods” and Harold McGee’s “Curious Cook.” Though Don wasn’t too keen on the idea of aging canned food. The guys then wondered about how a Michigan firm could be operating without a HACCP plan and the subsequent recall. Don then got grumpy about Candy eggs that have all been cleared of Salmonella. Then Ben got on his favorite soap box about the lack of information that is being provided. In the after dark the guys talked about Mobee Magic Charger, HyperJuice 2 external batteries, Don’s ski hat and Ben's toque ,and Ben’s fantasy baseball.​

Don was excited about his new “Dan Benjamin approved” microphone and headphones and Ben was excited about Folding Text. After emailing with Marco, from the Neutral podcast, Don is planning on moving Food Safety Talk to Squarespace 6, which should allow them to get better download tracking information. Don and Ben also sent shout-outs to David Tharp (IAFP), Ian Jenson (Meat and Livestock Australia) and Renee Boyer’s Food Safety class. The discussion then returned to the reusable bag discussion (see FST 34), which was prompted by Tomas Aragon who shared his memo about the “Clickety-Clack” paper. In the memo Thomas pointed out that Klick and Wright had used the ICD-10 codes, for which there were 140 deaths during 2000-2010. However, 111 of these were due to Enterocolitis due to Clostridium difficile, leaving only 29 related to other intestinal infectious diseases. The guys took a quick pop culture detour to iTunes Match which had allowed Ben to rediscover Rancid. Don’s been listening to R. L. Burnside (not R. L. Stine), Bite Harder: The Music De Wolfe Studio Sampler, Vol. 2 and Holy F*ck. On return to food safety they guys discussed an article on Farmers Markets and FSMA and in particular the quote from Kate Flannery. Ben disagreed with Kate’s implication that greenhouse farming was without risks. Don agreed that the risks were different rather than non-existent. The guys then turned to the horse meat scandal in the UK, which is even reverberating through the popular culture twittersphere. Ben challenged Prof. Hugh Pennington’s comments that horse meat was safer than beef, as surely the denominator matters! The discussion then turned to barbeque and roadkill. While you’ll find some vaguely disturbing erotic images you probably won’t find a road kill recipe on the Amazing Ribs website. Ben did discuss the safety of eating road kill in this barfblog article. Road kill is apparently making a resurgence with those who are struggling with food security (i.e. having enough food to eat). Don has worked with Debra Palmer Keenan to help people make better choices in relation to food safety when they have to compromise on the foods they buy. Don had some more follow up from FST 34 in relation to washing coffee mugs. He found some silly advice in this Huffington Post article and he expressed his disgust with this Mamapedia article. This got Ben excited as his grad student, Ben, is working on how to engage people in food safety via social media. Ben’s research will focus on mommy blogs (but probably not Dani’s 2 Little Supeheroes blog or Portlandia's Parenting tips over the coming months. The discussion then turned to Doug’s poop cruise article and that someone sold a bio poop bag on Ebay for $15. Another Barfblog article reported on the closure of Union University in Jackson, Tennessee, due to norovirus and Don contemplated the irony of this happening at North Carolina State University, the home of the NoroCORE project. In the after dark the guys talked about beverages, iTunes Match and MobileMe, and Ben had some questions about establishing variances to food safety standards.

Participating in the Krispy Kreme Challenge challenged Ben in more ways than one. Don is looking for a new podcasting mic and he is getting some guidance from Dan Benjamin’s guide. The guys discussed the download statistics for the podcast and Folding Text to manage their pre-show notes, as well as Don’s homework, The Newsroom (Canadian TV series), which prompted Don to correctly note the excessive plaid fashions. Bill Hallman had provided some further thoughts on the “no illness language” in recall notices (FST Episode 33) which led to a broader discussion about recalls, including one for Listeria in Crab Dip. The discussion continued with Listeria, namely Missa Bay LLC's recall due to Listeria in apple slices and the more recent FDA warning letter to the company. Don and Ben were surprised by where and how much Listeria was found by the FDA. The guys agreed that the publication of these warning letters was a good thing – not only for customers, but also to provide valuable information to suppliers of similar products – which reminded Ben of the Blue Pages for teachers. The guys then switched to the Chicago Tribune article “Triclosan: Anti-bacterial soaps called useless, potentially dangerous” that Don had been interviewed for (based on his publication “A Meta-Analysis of the Published Literature on the Effectiveness of Antimicrobial Soaps.”) The average benefit of antimicrobial soaps over normal soaps was about 0.5 log, or 63%, and Don explained that the benefits were greatest when the contamination levels of hands were high, for example after handling raw meat and poultry or after cleaning up vomit. Then Ben and Don got back into the reusable bag discussion. This was prompted by an article by Klick and Wright (not Watson and Crick). Klick and Wright combined Gerba, Williams and Sinclair’s research on bacteria in reusable shopping bags with a pathogenic E. coli related illnesses and deaths in hospital in the San Francisco area. They concluded that the ban on grocery bags led to an increase of 5.4 additional deaths per year, though Ben got really fired up on Barfblog about the lack of epidemiology and microbiology evident in the article. Don also took issue with a couple of lawyers mistaking correlation with causation and recalled FST Episode 19 where the guys had discussed reusable bags, which Carl Custer likes to call nickel bags (or check out this link). Ben then shared that that his department was advertising a local food extension / research position to collect evidence for a range of possible impacts of local food systems, including food safety, nutrition, or related areas. This led to a discussion about local food systems and Don was all in favor of fresh food, such as the locally source food available at Wegmans. In the after dark the guys geeked out with Folding Text, Markdown and its syntax, the octothorpe (not to be confused with Dr. Octavius from Spider-Man 2), Ben’s Garage Band workflow, Apple messages for the Mac, and Ken Finkleman.