Flying Free

In today’s episode, I have a powerful and insightful discussion with guest speaker Bob Hamp as part of a live Q&A we did with members of the Flying Free Kaleidoscope about the complexities of emotions, particularly anger, and the challenges faced by those in emotionally abusive relationships. Here’s a summary of the key points and concepts:1. Understanding Emotions:Emotions as Drivers: Emotions are energy in motion that propel us forward and should be embraced rather than repressed.Indicators of Inner States: Emotions serve as indicators (like a dashboard) that reveal our internal states and beliefs, particularly anger, which signals that a boundary has been crossed.Anger as a Response: Anger can be a protective response to repeated boundary violations, masking deeper emotions such as pain or fear.2. The Need for Validation:Craving Validation: After experiencing emotional abuse, individuals often seek external validation to affirm their feelings and experiences due to a distorted self-image created by the abuser.Living in a House of Mirrors: Emotional abusers create an environment where one’s self-perception is constantly challenged and distorted, leading to confusion and self-doubt.Research on Healing: Studies show that validation from others can help regulate the nervous system and facilitate healing for trauma survivors.3. Mutual Abuse vs. Conflictual Enmeshment:Mutual Abuse: This term suggests that both parties are equally culpable, but in abusive dynamics, there’s often a power differential where one partner exerts control over the other.Conflictual Enmeshment: This involves two people blaming each other for their issues without one holding more power over the other. The dynamics can feel like mutual blame, but there's usually a more dominant party in emotionally abusive situations.4. Setting Boundaries:Empowerment Through Boundaries: Establishing personal boundaries is essential. Boundaries involve controlling one’s response to others rather than attempting to control others' behaviors.Responses to Boundaries: Abusers often react negatively to boundaries, framing them as controlling behaviors. Recognizing this is crucial in identifying an abusive dynamic.5. Independence and Self-Validation:Moving Towards Independence: The journey from dependence to independence is critical for emotional and relational health. The goal is to validate oneself rather than rely on others for validation.Finding Self-Worth: Ultimately, the most empowering position is to own your self-worth, which frees you from the need for external validation and allows for healthier relationships.6. Practical Steps Forward:Healing Courses: Engaging in resources like courses focused on healing relationships with oneself can aid in developing self-validation and independence. We have a course called “Healing Your Relationship with Yourself” inside of the Flying Free Kaleidoscope. Join today to get access to that course as well as many others! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Connect with Bob on Facebook and Twitter, and take a look at his program, Think Differently Academy.Check out Bob’s “Think Differently” book series.Listen to more episodes of the Flying Free Podcast that we’ve done with Bob: Episode 1, Episode 76, and Episode 277, Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Bob Hamp is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist as well as an author and teacher. His life message has always been about freedom and healing. He and his wife, Polly, are the founders of Think Differently Academy, an online community for training, personal growth and healing. He and Polly have six kids and six grandkids with one more on the way.

Understanding and Overcoming Emotional Abuse: A Journey to Personal FreedomIn this episode of the Flying Free Podcast, Natalie reflects on the power of transformation and shares profound insights from both the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community and the personal stories of women who are seeking freedom from abusive relationships. With heartfelt testimonials and a listener’s deeply personal question about navigating a difficult separation, this episode delves into the complexities of emotional abuse and the path to self-discovery.The Power of Transformation: Real-Life Experiences from the Flying Free KaleidoscopeNatalie begins the episode by reading reviews from members of the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community—a safe space for Christian women seeking healing and growth. These women share how the program has impacted their lives in profound ways:"Two months in this program has changed my life. My relationship with myself and the way I parent my children has changed dramatically. I'm addicted to the coaching sessions.""Your programs are incredible. I talk about them every chance I get. They have literally changed my life. Hugs.""There are so many resources in this program. It is mind-blowing.""I am blown away. I joined a few months ago, and every course I take, I listen to three to five times. Each lesson gets better and better."These testimonials emphasize the depth of support available to women within the Flying Free Kaleidoscope program. Natalie likens the community to a “kaleidoscope of butterflies,” a metaphor representing the beauty and strength of women transforming their minds—and ultimately their lives—through support, coaching, and faith.A Listener’s Question: Navigating Separation and Emotional AbuseNatalie addresses a question from a listener who is struggling to understand her husband's childlike behavior and lack of engagement during their separation. The listener shares her journey of enduring seventeen years of anxiety, feeling inadequate in her marriage, and facing a spouse who refuses to communicate or take responsibility.The listener asks three key questions:Why is my husband choosing childlike behavior and ignoring me and our separation?How do I work with him to move forward?I want insight into this type of man.The Alligator Metaphor: Focusing on What You Can ControlIn response, Natalie draws a vivid analogy, comparing an abusive relationship to falling into a swamp with alligators. She explains that focusing on why the alligator behaves the way it does is futile. Instead, the priority should be on getting out of the swamp. Similarly, understanding the abuser’s mindset isn’t the key to healing. Rather, the focus should be on what you can control—your own decisions, actions, and growth.“We can’t control other people. Our challenge is not to understand the psyche of an abuser. Our challenge is to gain self-awareness and understanding around our own psyche and what is driving our beliefs and behaviors. This is where 100% of our opportunity lies.”Reframing the QuestionsInstead of asking why her husband behaves in a certain way, Natalie encourages the listener to shift her focus. She offers three thought-provoking reframes for the listener’s questions:Why is my husband choosing childlike behavior?Reframe: Why am I choosing to revolve my life around this other adult, meanwhile ignoring my own sanity and health?How do I work with him to move forward?Reframe: How do I work with myself to move forward? You can’t force someone else to change, but you can focus on your own path to healing and freedom.I want insight into this type of man.Reframe: I want insight into my own mind and beliefs so that I can evolve into the next version of who I was created to be.Natalie emphasizes that healing comes from within, not from trying to understand or change the abuser. She explains how many women are conditioned to prioritize the needs and feelings of others, often at their own expense. But true freedom comes when you take control of your own life, set boundaries, and focus on your own growth.The Mission of Flying Free: Transforming Minds to Transform LivesNatalie ends the episode by reminding listeners of the mission of Flying Free—to help Christian women find freedom, truth, and love in their lives. The Flying Free Kaleidoscope community offers resources, coaching, and support to help women on their journey toward healing and wholeness.For those who are ready to take the next step, Natalie invites listeners to join the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community, where they’ll find a network of support, guidance, and hope.Join the Flying Free Kaleidoscope CommunityIf you’re looking for a place to belong and grow, the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community might be the support system you’ve been searching for. Visit joinflyingfree.com to learn more about how you can start your journey toward healing today.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Are you wondering what is happening inside your

Aimee Byrd, a well-loved guest of the Flying Free Podcast, is back again to tell us the story behind her newest book, The Hope in Our Scars. It’s not a pretty present of a book, wrapped in neat paper and topped with a bow. It’s real, it’s raw, and it’s full of beauty, and that’s exactly what this conversation is as well. Aimee went through some unfathomable spiritual abuse and says, “That's what led me to write The Hope in Our Scars because I did find Christ intimately present with me through this.” We hope you’ll be able to find hope and Christ in this conversation, too. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:You can find Aimee on X, Threads, and Facebook. Go listen to my first interview with Aimee, “We Need a Sexual Reformation in the Church.” I highly encourage you to check out Aimee's incredible books, including The Hope in Our Scars, The Sexual Reformation, Recovering from Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, Why Can’t We Be Friends?, No Little Women, Theological Fitness, and Housewife Theologian.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Aimee Byrd is a former coffee cafe owner who now uses her conversational barista skills as a writer and speaker. Her latest books blend contemplative thought with biblical theology. Aimee is the author of several books including The Hope in Our Scars, The Sexual Reformation, Recovering from Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, Why Can’t We Be Friends?, No Little Women, Theological Fitness, and Housewife Theologian. Looking for the beauty and wonder in theology—learning about God—and spiritual formation, Aimee writes about the things she hoped to talk about in church. In this quest, she’s found many others who’ve been disillusioned by the church but are still looking for what’s real, beautiful, true, and good. It’s often not where we think it is.

Have you ever gotten a toxic text from a friend, a family member—maybe your spouse? The women in our Flying Free Kaleidoscope have the opportunity to post the toxic texts they receive so that we can help them process, and I came across one I just couldn’t wrap my brain around, it was so incredibly full of toxicity and falsities. So today’s episode is breaking down this particular abusive text that one of my members received, and honestly, it can actually be quite interesting once you get the hang of it. Come parse through this toxic texter's false beliefs and see how I would respond if I were the one getting this text. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Read one of my favorite books, Forgiveness After Trauma, and listen in on an interview I did with the author, Susannah Griffith. Check out the article I mentioned by Christy Hemphill, “How Things Go Wrong with Metaphorical Reasoning in Ephesians 5.”Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my private online education community designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this community.Flying Higher is our educational community for divorced Christian women.

Have you ever wondered, “Am I really being emotionally abused? Is it considered emotional abuse if my spouse is lying to me? Gaslighting me? Ignoring me? What are the kinds of mistreatments we can actually call ABUSE? My friend, this is a question I’ve been answering for other women for almost a decade now. This is my my life’s work. My passion. Let me help guide you just a little bit in today’s episode as we do a deep-dive on emotional abuse: what it is, how it destroys lives, and what we can do about it.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereAre you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Many years ago I paid $150 an hour for counseling. If you do the math, that comes down to $25 for every ten minutes of her time. Yes. I was paying $25 for someone else to listen to me for ten minutes. I would tell her what new horrors I had experienced the week before, and then she would validate and empathize with me, and then I would go home.That’s expensive. $25 is a lot of money to pay for someone to listen to your troubles. And was it moving the dial in my life? Was it worth that $25 for those ten minutes that I was purchasing to change my life, to get me moving forward? Was I getting unstuck? Was I learning new things? After a year of seeing her for an hour every other week, because I couldn't afford to go every single week, I had spent $3,600 and I was still in the same place that I had been a year before. The only difference is that I had $3,600 less in my bank account. Can anyone else relate to this madness?I recently had a conversation with a group of Christian women about something that didn’t cost them $75 or $100 or $150 an hour but that has changed the entire trajectory of their lives.Today you get to listen in on that conversation.I hated that I wasted so much money on something that not only got me nowhere but that set me back in my healing. I determined to help women in my shoes in a different way, and it would only cost them $29. Not for a few minutes. But for 438,000 minutes (that’s one entire month) of having five coaches, including me, not only listen to you, but actually HELP you in your specific life with your specific circumstances. 438,000 minutes of access to powerful classes that will educate, train, and equip you to take the next best step in your life. 438,000 minutes of daily support whenever you need it to help you transform your thinking and change your life. Would that be worth it to you? I asked these women to share with you today why they think it’s more than worth it. Why it’s so worth it that they have been members for years. One said, “I actually still go to counseling and my counseling is 100% covered by insurance. So for me, my counseling is free, but I still feel like Flying Free coaching helps me more than my counseling sessions do.”I asked her why. Listen to find out! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Wanna hear more about the money I wasted on trying to get help? Read my newest book, All the Scary Little Gods. It’s a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Books are like buses. When you open up a book, it will take you to a new place. It will take you on a new adventure. Sometimes the book will take you on a journey of the imagination to a new country or a science fiction place. Sometimes the book will take you on a path of learning you've never explored before, and that path will lead you down other paths, and then those paths will lead you down even more paths, and you will be able to meander through information that delights your mind and opens you up to new ideas and ways of looking at the world. Books shape the way we think, feel, and show up in the world. They can even influence who we hang out with, who we agree or disagree with, and how we approach those agreements or disagreements. Books are important. They have just as much influence over us as people do because they are written by people with bias, people with their own programming, people with their own lived experience or lack thereof. Charlie Jones once wrote “Remember, you are the same today as you will be in five years, except for two things: the people you meet and the books you read. Choose both carefully.”When it comes to books about deconstruction, I’ve found some to be life-giving and hope-saturated, and I’ve found others to be depressing and hopeless. In today’s episode, I talk about some of the books that have changed my life and my relationship with God. For the better! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Books on books on books: Gaslighted by God: Reconstructing a Disillusioned Faith by Tiffany Yecke Brooks (and the podcast interview I did with her)Holy Ghosted: Spiritual Anxiety and Religious Trauma and the Language of Abuse by Tiffany Yecke Brooks (and the podcast interview I did with her)All the Scary Little Gods by Yours TrulyFaith Beyond Doubt: Why Your Beliefs Stopped Working and What to Do About It by Brian McLarenA Spiritual Evolution by John McMurrayLove Wins by Rob BellSearching for Sunday: Loving, Leaving, and Finding the Church - a memoir by the late Rachel Held EvansThe Sin of Certainty: Why God Desires Our Trust More Than Our "Correct" Beliefs by Peter EnnsThe Bible Tells Me So: Why Defending Scripture Has Made Us Unable to Read It by Peter EnnsHow the Bible Actually Works by Peter EnnsThe Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth by Beth Allison BarrAttached to God by Krispin Mayfield (and the podcast interview I did with him)Christianity After Religion: The End of Church and the Birth of a New Spiritual Awakening By Diana Butler BassAre you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

We read an incredible book in our book club that is a part of Flying Higher, my program for divorced Christian women. This book healed me in ways I didn’t expect, and I think the women in our book club would say the same.Our discussion on this book was so powerful that I just had to let you all listen to a portion of it, so that is what today’s episode is all about!Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Check out the book we spent this whole episode talking about: The Book of Longings by Sue Monk Kidd.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

“Do I have C-PTSD? Surely not—it’s not like I was a prisoner of war or something.” If you’re a victim of emotional abuse, you very well could have C-PTSD. In today’s episode, I want to introduce you to C-PTSD, how emotional and spiritual abuse can cause C-PTSD, what the symptoms are, and some practical ways that you can move forward and heal if you determine that you do have C-PTSD. I also want to debunk the theory that many emotional abusers have that their victims have Borderline Personality Disorder. Let’s dive in, shall we?Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Read the article I mentioned about complementarianism versus egalitarianism.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

I’ve been busy doing all the things recently, so I wanted to give you all the inside scoop on what I’ve been up to. This includes going to an intense Personality Hacker conference, running a twelve-week coaching intensive, and helping women in the private forum (which is a part of the Flying Free program - we’d love to have you join us!) with some parenting quandaries. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Check out the Personality Hacker website and their podcast. Episodes 243 and 244 are the ones I mention in today’s episode, “Making Peace With Your Parents” parts 1 and 2.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Have you ever dealt with a Bible counselor who just doesn’t get it? Or maybe an elder from your church? Or have you ever been excommunicated from your church? Sister, I’ve been through all of the above, and I write about bits and pieces of it in my newest book, All the Scary Little Gods. In today’s episode, I’m going to read three chapters from my book, and they all have to do with the different counselors and elders I dealt with during my emotionally abusive marriage. Grab your favorite beverage, and let me bring you into my world as we explore what can happen when you get Bible counseling for your abusive marriage. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Have you ever felt guilty about taking care of yourself? “I don’t deserve to be taken care of, plus I have too many other responsibilities, how am I supposed to make time to take care of ME?!”Let me help dismantle this belief and show you that you do deserve some self-care, and, in fact, need it. I also received an interesting question in the Flying Free private forum about IFS (Internal Family Systems). This member wanted to know how she could accept and have compassion for her “bad” parts without ignoring sin in her life. Such a great question! Let’s dig in!Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Want to learn more about IFS from a spiritual standpoint? Go grab Jenna Riemersma’s book, Altogether You. My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming…with an IFS twist!Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

One of our listeners submitted a heavy question asking about how long she has to let the abuse continue. The snagging point? She had an affair. So, what does one do if they have an affair while in an emotionally abusive relationship? Does that mean they now deserve to be in an abusive marriage until they die? What are their options, and how can we think about this?Join my candid conversation with Susan Estringel, one of our coaches within the Flying Free program, as we untangle this situation and speak with compassion to those of you who have lived this reality. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Connect with Susan on her website and on Instagram.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Susan Estringel is a Life and Relationship Coach, Yogi, and Music Therapist with a message of self-compassion and resilience. Drawing from her own journey as a survivor of emotional abuse, Susan brings a personal perspective to conversations around Christian abuse survivors having affairs. With a passion for lifting others up to find and reclaim their voice, Susan offers a unique blend of lived experience and professional expertise in navigating the complexities of healing after having an affair. She specializes in rewiring limiting beliefs, setting boundaries, and shedding the heavy burdens of shame and guilt associated with affairs.

“Does God really hate divorce? And why haven’t my years of praying brought any fruit?” Abuse survivors ask me these two questions regularly, and today, I’m going to use Malachi 2:16 as well as a chapter from my newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, to answer them both. Beautiful butterfly, I pray this episode is an encouragement to you as you wrestle with these important topics. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Links to resources about the idea that God hates divorceMy newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Joining me for today’s fascinating episode is Dan Koch, podcaster and spiritual abuse researcher. Dan has created an incredible tool called the Spiritual Harm & Abuse Scale, and he breaks it down for us as we talk about spiritual abuse and the heavy impact it has on people’s lives. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Check out Dan’s Spiritual Harm & Abuse Scale. Also mentioned in today’s podcast episode was Dr. Keller’s Spiritual Abuse Questionnaire. Connect with Dan on his website as well as Instagram. Listen to Dan’s podcast, You Have Permission, and especially Episodes 10 and 123. Grab your copy of one of my favorite books, Faith Beyond Doubt. My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Dan Koch is a licensed therapist in the state of Washington, the host of the You Have Permission Podcast and a spiritual abuse researcher who has developed the Spiritual Harm & Abuse Scale, currently in use by religious trauma clinicians around the world.

Sometimes a woman will say, “I decided to leave, but now my abuser is being so nice to me! What should I do?” Unless an abuser has found a new source of supply, the abuser will want to maintain control over you. He’s been observing what makes you tick for a long time. He's been observing what works and doesn’t work to emotionally manipulate you. He knows how to both push all your buttons AND pull on your heartstrings. One of the ways he knows he can pull on a nice girl's strings is to simply make a show of being nice to her, and then the victim thinks, “Oh, let's give him another chance. He's trying so hard, poor hapless man. I must be the wind beneath his wings.” We've been programmed to believe these kinds of things. A man can be chronically abusive, but when he’s nice, we think that just negates everything else he has done, but our body knows it’s not true. Our brain has been programmed to believe that if he is nice or says “I’m sorry,” that means he has repented, and we just need to take him back, suck it up, and sweep everything under the rug. But that's not what true repentance or forgiveness is.This is taken from today’s episode in which I share part of a live emotional abuse Q&A I recently did for my email subscribers. These are people who have requested help and resources from me over the years. Sometimes I create free workshops or special events for everyone on that list. (If you don’t want to miss any articles or events or resources I create for you, be sure to get on that list by going to my website, flyingfreenow.com, and signing up at the top of the page!) Here are some of the questions I answered in today’s episode:Should I tell my adult children and close friends about the hidden emotional abuse I’m experiencing?I feel guilty because we’re in the middle of the divorce process, but all of a sudden, my husband has started being nicer than he’s ever been! Why am I so afraid to tell my husband that I am done with the marriage?How do I avoid being triggered in a situation where my needs are being ignored or misunderstood? Is my husband abusive, or just selfish and immature?And MORE! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Books I recommended in today’s episode: Forgiveness After Trauma, The Body Keeps the Score, The Tools, Divorcing a Narcissist: One Mom's Battle, and A Failure of Nerve.I also mentioned my interview with the author of Forgiveness After Trauma, Susannah Griffith, my article called “How to Leave an Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 10 Steps,” and another podcast episode, Episode 280, “Projective Identification in Abusive Relationships.”My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

“In this book, I want to share parts of my journey paired with reflections based on my background as a biblical scholar to make available forgiveness paths different from the harmful ones so often proffered in the name of God.” Susannah Griffith’s book, Forgiveness After Trauma, does exactly that, and it is now my absolute favorite book on forgiveness. In today’s episode, Susannah and I sit down and talk about how we can look at forgiveness in a more healing way than we are accustomed to.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:If you read any book about forgiveness, let it be Susannah’s: Forgiveness after Trauma: A Path to Find Healing and Empowerment. She also has another book called Leaving Silence: Sexualized Violence, the Bible, and Standing with Survivors.Connect with Susannah on her website and Instagram.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Susannah is an independent scholar, writer, chaplain, and advocate. Her first book, Leaving Silence, was a finalist for a Christianity Today Book of the Year award. Susannah resides in Northern Indiana with her husband Michael and three young daughters.

Abusers will project their own inner identity and issues onto their victims. Let’s talk about what that means, how it impacts a survivor, and what you can do about it. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:The YouTube video that inspired this episode, “Projective Identification Explained.”The book by Tina Swithin I mentioned, Divorcing a Narcissist: One Mom’s Battle. My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Dr. Christy Bauman has written yet another beautifully rich book, and in today’s episode, you will get a sneak peek! Her Rites: A Sacred Journey for the Mind, Body, and Soul takes you on a journey through each of a woman’s six rites of passage and empowers women through words, art, and music. In today’s episode, we discussWhat does birthright mean for Christian women?What is God’s legacy through women?How does the rite of exile impact female survivors?How does the rite of intuition empower women who have been abused?And so much more!Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Get your copy of Her Rites: A Sacred Journey for the Mind, Body, and Soul, as well as Christy’s other books, The Sexually Healthy Woman, Theology of the Womb, and A Brave Lament.Find Christy on her website.Listen to the corresponding music for Her Rites. Connect with Christy on Instagram on her main page and her Womaneering page.If you loved this episode, you’ll love Episode 45 of the Flying Free Podcast which is also with Christy! My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Dr. Christy Bauman, MDFT & LMHC (she/her) is committed to helping women come into their true voice. She is an author and psychotherapist who focuses on the female body, sexuality, and theology. Christy’s work can be found at christybauman.com

I have been learning and reading and going to conferences and doing ALL the things recently, and I want to tell you all about it! This episode is a fun one where I let you in on what I’ve been up to and share a few golden nuggets I’ve found along the way. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Book I’ve been reading recently: After by Dr. Bruce Greyson, It’s Not You by Dr. Ramani, and Still Life by Penny Louise.Check out my new favorite podcast, The BEMA Podcast.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. I also made a playlist for this book on Spotify! Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

We talk about the abuse so much, we sometimes forget about the actual healing process. That’s why I’ve invited my long-time friend and seasoned guest Bob Hamp back on the Flying Free Podcast. Bob knows how painful and necessary the healing journey is, and he has some incredible golden nuggets of wisdom to share today that you do not want to miss.Some key points include How Bob found himself in the advocate world and his backstory Why trying to find resources for your abuser really isn’t helpful How our bodies were designed to help protect usWhat the word “introject” means and how it relates to youA parable about a hiker that will help you with your healingHow your childhood dreams can help you healRead the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Connect with Bob on Facebook and Twitter.Check out Bob’s incredible “Think Differently” book series.Experience Bob’s new Sunday morning spiritual growth community, The Living Room, by becoming a Think Differently Academy member. My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Bob Hamp is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist as well as an author and teacher. His life message has always been about freedom and healing. He and his wife, Polly, are the founders of Think Differently Academy, an online community for training, personal growth and healing. He and Polly have six kids and six grandkids with one more on the way.

Today I’m going to teach you how to use the same CBT triangle tool I use with the women I work with, my kids, and even myself to help us all understand and gain self-awareness around our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. This CBT tool has three parts that can assist you in changing the way you think, and as a result, change your life and the lives of your kids.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Previous episodes where I talk about this tool: Episode 160, Episode 105, and Episode 107.Previous episodes where I talk about sex: Episode 104, Episode 108, Episode 170, Episode 221, and Episode 230.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Ryan George grew up with a father who abused him, a church that hurt him, and a heart that needed healing. Even after learning he wasn’t the only one being abused at the hands of his father, Ryan still found healing he desperately needed, and he’s on a mission to help others heal, tell their story, and live life to the fullest. Together, Ryan and I talk aboutRyan’s story growing up in Independent Fundamental Baptist churches How Ryan found out about more of his father’s victims outside of their familyWhy Ryan’s book was written to shine a light on problematic theological issues in the church in order to prevent more victims from being hurtHow finding a healthy church changed Ryan’s life and beliefsWhat you should look for when searching for a healthy churchAnd more! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Grab your copy of Ryan’s newest book, Hurt and Healed by the Church, as well as his first book, Scared to Life.Check out Ryan’s blog, Explorience.Connect with Ryan on Instagram and Facebook. My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Ryan George is the author of Hurt and Healed by the Church, and Scared to Life. He’s the blogger behind Explorience.org. He co-founded and co-leads Dude Group, a spiritual adventure community in the Blue Ridge Mountains where he lives with his wife, Crystal, and daughter, Deonnie.

BILL! My friend, Bill, wrote a little comment on my site that I wanted to share with you all. It wasn’t a nice comment, but honestly, that’s what makes this episode fun! Let’s take a look at what our little gaslighting friend said and examine more closely where he got it wrong. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay well in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you!

Once upon a time, I dared to write a letter to the pastor of a church I was attending at the time (after having been excommunicated from another church for telling the truth about my life, requesting help, and then acquiring a divorce to protect myself). In my letter, I wrote that his sermon that morning did not take into account abuse survivors' experiences—survivors who were probably sitting in the pews that morning confused and scared about what he was preaching at them. I wanted him to hear his own words from a different perspective—a survivor’s perspective. Surely this letter wouldn’t fall on deaf ears. He was a shepherd representing Jesus, right? He loved his flock and would want to care for their hearts, right?Wrong. Let me read you the letter I sent him, and then let me read you his letter back. It may shock you that a “shepherd” would respond this way. It shocked me then, too, but it doesn’t shock me anymore. I’ll tell you why in today’s episode.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay well in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you!

Today's podcast episode features a chapter from my new book, All the Scary Little Gods. It's an analogy I wrote several years ago when I was trying my darndest to explain my situation to people who couldn't wrap their brains around it.In the years since that time, I've heard from countless Christian women how much it helped them understand what they were going through. Today you can listen to this story as it was recorded for the Audible version of All the Scary Little Gods. I hope it helps you find clarity and hope.And maybe even a few laughs along the way.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life, check out Flying Higher.

Author, Tiffany Yecke Brooks has done it again with her new book, Holy Ghosted: Spiritual Anxiety, Religious Trauma, and the Language of Abuse. (Don't you absolutely LOVE that title? She's an amazing writer.) Have you ever been ghosted by someone? They disappeared from your life, seemingly into thin air? Have you ever been worried that God might ghost you, especially if you don’t dot your “i”s” and cross your “t’s?” Spiritual anxiety is common among Christians, and Dr. Tiffany Yecke Brooks wants to break that down with you to show that even though people may try to scare you into believing that God will ghost you if you don't do what they want you to do, that's not who God is.In this episode, Tiffany answers questions such as:“What is the definition of spiritual anxiety?” “How do I overcome spiritual anxiety?” “What are some different ways of looking at commonly told Bible stories?” And more! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Reach out to Tiffany on her website.Follow Tiffany on Facebook.Read Tiffany’s article on Substack.Check out Tiffany's Holy Ghosted book playlist! Pick up your copies of Tiffany’s newest book, Holy Ghosted: Spiritual Anxiety, Religious Trauma, and the Language of Abuse, as well as the book I interviewed her about in the spring of 2022, Gaslighted by God: Reconstructing a Disillusioned Faith. If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.Dr. Tiffany Yecke Brooks is the lead or contributing writer on more than two dozen books, including multiple New York Times bestsellers. She is the coauthor of Fear Is a Choice: Tackling Life’s Challenges With Dignity, Faith, and Determination (with NFL running back James Conner), Limitless: The Power of Hope and Resilience to Overcome Circumstance (with Paralympic gold-medalist Mallory Weggemann), and the narrative nonfiction historical thriller Espionage and Enslavement in the Revolution: The True Story of Robert Townsend and Elizabeth (with historian Claire Bellerjeau). Her newest book, Holy Ghosted: Spiritual Anxiety, Religious Trauma, and the Language of Abuse, was released in April 2024. She has also published articles in peer-reviewed journals and the Smithsonian. Tiffany holds a PhD from Florida State University, where her dissertation covered, in part, cultural adaptations of stories from the book of Genesis, and an MA from the University of Bristol in the UK, where her thesis examined cultural influences and literary techniques in the Gospel of Luke. A popular speaker for student groups, faith conferences, and academic lectureships, Tiffany has taught literature and writing at Abilene Christian University, McMurry University, and the University of South Carolina – Beaufort.

“Why do you keep bringing up the past?”“You can't have boundaries with me. You're my wife.”“You're too sensitive.”“I said I was sorry. You need to accept that. Let's choose to have a good day now.”“You think you're so perfect.”Do these phrases sound familiar? They certainly sound familiar to me. I want to show you some ways you can combat these words your abuser throws at you, even if you’re just combating them in your own mind. You don’t even have to say anything out loud (because we all know what happens when we try to reason with an abuser/fool). You can just say these phrases I’m going to teach you in your head, and that will be enough to give you the empowerment and strength you need! But first, let’s check out a negative review I recently received *gasp* and look to Matthew 23 to help us figure out if this reviewer is on the right track…or not. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

Gretchen Baskerville joins me in today’s episode to talk about a survey she recently conducted on peoples’ personal experiences with marriage intensives. In her survey of 330 people, what she found was shocking, fascinating, and not at all what she expected (mostly). Listen to today’s episode to find out the twelve biggest surprises in this survey and what they mean when it comes to the effectiveness of expensive marriage intensives. Each surprise gets more and more fascinating as the episode unravels - you won’t want to miss this!Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources: Gretchen’s website, Life-Saving Divorce, is a gold mine of resources.Check out Gretchen on YouTube.The Life-Saving Divorce, Gretchen’s best-selling book, just might be the lifeline you’re looking for. Don’t hesitate to grab your copy today! If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.Gretchen Baskerville is a Christian divorce recovery leader and researcher. Since 1998, she has worked in churches in the Los Angeles area helping heartbroken people find strength, courage, and healing. For more than 20 years she has worked with Christian women and men going through difficult, life-saving divorces, listening with compassion to those who have suffered from domestic violence, betrayal, infidelity, addicted partners, and emotional abuse. Herself the survivor of a toxic marriage, she walked through her own lifesaving divorce and was a single mother for many years. Today she is happily remarried. She is a graduate of Wheaton College with a degree in Bible and Christian Education.

In today’s episode, I answer more listener questions from women just like you who are trying to figure out what is happening inside of their painful and confusing marriage. If you want to leave a question for me to answer on the Flying Free Podcast, I would love to hear from you! Here are the questions being addressed today:Is my husband emotionally abusive or is it possible that he’s just emotionally weak and unavailable due to his own past and trauma that he hasn't dealt with yet?Does my husband abuse me on purpose? Does he know what he’s doing?How do I know it’s time to leave my abusive husband?Has my abusive husband actually changed, or is he a fraud?Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

Have you ever been told you are incorrigible? Or how about contumacious, which means stubbornly and willfully disobedient to authority? Janet’s church promised to help and protect her, but when she decided to set a boundary to protect herself by divorcing her abuser, they turned on her with this vicious name-calling. Sort of like her abuser, come to think of it. In this final episode of our excommunication series, Janet outlines her story of waking up to abuse, seeking help from her church, and receiving a proverbial beating in return. Let’s unmask these particular wolves in Janet’s story so that we can learn how to unmask others in our own lives and in the lives of the people we care about. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

In part two of our excommunication series, I interview Valerie, a former member of a Reformed Baptist church that excommunicated her for divorcing her unfaithful and emotionally abusive husband.After years of receiving “help” from her church as she endured betrayal after betrayal from her husband, she said enough was enough. But even as she divorced her husband and then tried to leave the church peacefully, they wouldn’t allow it. They had to have the last word. Listen to Valerie’s story today. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

“Your high-handed sin against God is a dangerous domain, especially for those that claim Christ and have identified with the church.” Mareida read these words in shock after her “sin” of running away from her abuser had reached the ears of her church. Marieda has a story to tell, and you’ll want to listen in. It’s a story of freedom from emotional abuse and then being punished for it by the church that was supposed to protect her. It’s a story of deep betrayal but also rising from the ashes. This is the first in a series of three episodes about excommunication. Meet Marieda. Here is her excommunication story.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

Is teaching survivors how to have boundaries the equivalent of victim blaming? I’ve seen this topic come up again and again, and I thought it was time I stated what I believe about it. The bottom line is that I believe that boundaries is an essential tool in a survivor’s toolbox. I also believe abuse is never, ever the survivor’s fault. Those two beliefs can go hand in hand nicely, and I’m going to show you how.Join me as I explain my stance, why it’s important, and what McDonald’s burgers and fries have to do with the whole sordid affair. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

I gratefully and joyfully, with so much love, offer my brand new book, All the Scary Little Gods, to you!WHO THIS BOOK IS FOR:Anyone who has suffered from anxiety in their relationship with GodPerfectionistsFear filled folksAngry survivorsExhausted women who are just “done”Confused ChristiansSearchers and seekersGrieversThe GuiltyThe ShamedAnyone who just only ever wanted to be loved. (Especially you, precious one.)You can now get All the Scary Little Gods on Amazon in the following formats: Kindle, paperback, or Audible ($19.99). Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

Deconstruction can seem daunting, and you might find yourself becoming fearful of even starting. But let me tell you this: Deconstruction doesn’t have to mean losing your church family. Deconstruction doesn’t have to mean losing your faith. Deconstruction doesn’t have to mean losing your relationship with God.In today’s episode, Angela Herrington joins us to talk about the following:How faith deconstruction intersects with the process of healing from emotional and spiritual abuseHow you can deconstruct and still keep your church and the people within it who matter to youWhat role forgiveness plays in our faith journey if we’ve experienced abuse, and so much more. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Pre-order Angela’s book coming out on February 20th, 2024, Deconstructing Your Faith Without Losing Yourself.Join Angela’s free Facebook community today and get the support you deserve without pressure to be someone you’re not. Check out Angela’s website and follow her on Facebook and Instagram. If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.Angela is a faith deconstruction coach and host of The Deconstructing Faith Summit who helps people break free from toxic religious culture & empowers them to recover from #churchhurt. Her first book, Deconstructing Your Faith Without Losing Yourself, will be published by Eerdmans in February 2023. Angela is a wife, mom to 5, and a proud resident of Marion, Indiana, with her family when they’re not traveling the US in their RV.

We are gearing up for the release of my brand new book, All the Scary Little Gods, which will be available on Amazon in Kindle, paperback, and Audible formats on February 20th.In this episode, you’ll get some more sneak peeks including the foreword by Dr. Tiffany Yecke Brooks and chapters about my first kiss in college plus a time when I thought “crying out to God” would bring back some mail-in-rebate money. (That’s right. You’ll have to listen to believe it.) Laugh, cry, and roll your eyes with me in this sneak peek episode! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

Have you ever been told to, “first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will be able to see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye” in regards to your emotionally abusive marriage? That passage of the Bible is often used to mutualize the sin of the abuser and his victim. This is called sin-leveling, and it’s a form of spiritual abuse. Karen McMahon is here to show us how to take back the meaning of these verses to empower and strengthen ourselves. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Book a FREE Rapid Relief Call to explore a challenge you are facing and gain clarity and direction with one of Karen’s Journey Beyond Divorce Coaches.Listen to Karen’s podcast, Journey Beyond Divorce. If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.Support the Flying Free podcast AND get in on monthly deep-dive discussions with podcast guests by joining the Flying Free Podcast Club for a $5 monthly donation HERE. (Members of Flying Free and Flying Higher can join these discussions FREE. Just reach out to me, [email protected], and we'll get you set up!) And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.Karen McMahon is a High Conflict Divorce Strategist, Certified Divorce Coach and Founder of Journey Beyond Divorce. She works with women going through high-conflict divorces. Her signature approach addresses the internal intricacies of intense emotions, fixed mindset and unconscious behaviors along with external complexities of legal approaches, financial awareness and co-parenting hurdles, ensuring that her clients emerge both victorious and transformed.

During the entire year of 2023, I wrote a book. It was not an easy book for me to write, emotionally, and I’m glad to be done and even more glad to release it into the world soon. In this episode, I discuss why I titled my new book, All the Scary Little Gods, and I explain the symbolism on the front cover. Please note: In today's episode, which was recorded several months ago, I mention that All the Scary Little Gods will be released on February 22nd, 2024. It will now be released on February 20th, 2024! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

“Communication is key,” right? But healthy communication often isn’t possible with an emotionally abusive individual who twists your words and uses them against you. Today’s conversation is with Mikki Gardner, Certified Life + Conscious Parenting Coach. Mikki’s expertise and knowledge will help propel you forward as you learn how to deal with toxic communication cycles in the context of co-parenting.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Check out Mikki’s website and take advantage of her free Conscious Co-parenting Masterclass!Tune in to Mikki’s podcast, Co-Parenting with Confidence.Mikki has a new book called “The People Pleaser’s Guide to Co-Parenting Well.” If you liked this episode, you’ll love her book!If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.Mikki Gardner is a Certified Life + Conscious Parenting Coach, the host of Co-Parenting With Confidence Podcast, and a mom to her son! After learning how to navigate life post-divorce & using it as a catalyst to her own transformation, Mikki now helps moms move past the divorce drama to become calm, confident co-parents, even without their ex’s participation. Mikki is on a mission to help women navigate the emotional and practical difficulties of divorce and co-parenting while creating an intentional, joy + ease-filled life after divorce.

“I’m really struggling with feeling extremely lonely. How did you deal with this in a healthy way?“How do you cope with loneliness? A shattered, broken heart?”“We don’t speak to each other at all most of the time, so I just get really lonely for human fellowship and interaction.”“I’m feeling really isolated. I just feel sad and alone.”“I need help dealing with how lonely I feel all the time.”Do these expressions of loneliness feel familiar to you? Then today’s episode is for you.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

On January 1st I asked the Christian women in my private forum to tell me what truth they learned in 2023 that had rocked their world and changed their life forever.Then I read their answers, and they took my breath away.When I started breathing again, I knew I had to share them with you, so I created this bonus Flying Free podcast episode AND a PDF download for you HERE.These are all written by ordinary Christian women in extraordinarily challenging and painful marriages.I hope these thoughts will give you hope and a vision for what is possible. XOXONatalie HoffmanIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

Sometimes your circumstances are completely outside of your control, and no matter how much you may want to leave them behind you, you simply cannot. Sometimes this is the emotionally abused woman’s situation. They may want to leave, but they can’t do that today, tomorrow, or even next year. They have to stay for whatever reason. Are they doomed to a life of misery and pain? No. Absolutely not. Diana Swillinger has some practical strategies about how you can grow while staying. You can’t fix your circumstances, but you can transform your SELF. You can focus on your own self-development right where you’re at. Let’s do it together.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Follow Diana’s podcast, The Renew Your Mind Podcast.Get a free mindshift coaching call with Diana.If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com.And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past 5 year she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

Have you ever gone around in circles during a conversation with someone with no hope of ever reaching any kind of resolution? The abuse cycle is just like that — a never-ending loop of tension, an explosion, and then most confusing of all, a really “good” part of the cycle where the abuser is seemingly kind. But how do we get off of this chaotic merry-go-round? How do we interrupt the cycle? I’m glad you asked. As a former card-carrying member of the merry-go-round, I have a few ideas for you as you work towards interrupting the cycle. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

Getting out of an emotionally abusive marriage is one of the hardest things you could ever do. But the life and healing it can bring after you have finally left the grip of abuse makes this difficult journey worth it.In today’s episode, I want to outline a ten-step pathway if you or someone you love is considering getting out of an emotionally and spiritually abusive relationship. Come with me as we climb the ladder out of hell. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

One of the biggest hurdles to getting out of an abusive relationship is money. Today I’m answering two listener questions related to this issue.“Do I need to submit to having my credit and debit cards taken away and no access to money?” “How do I launch myself financially after having no experience with money?” These are very common questions emotional abuse survivors have, and I want to answer them in today’s episode. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

If you’ve ever flown on a plane, you know that in case of emergency, the flight attendants always tell you to put on your own oxygen mask first before you help your kids put on theirs. Healing is the same way. We can’t help our kids heal until we heal ourselves. If we stay stuck, our kids are going to suffer right along with us. You get the opportunity to be your kids’ biggest hero, support, and safe space. But you have to be YOUR biggest hero, support, and safe space first. Let’s learn how—together. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

Today’s episode is taken from a live Q&A I did a couple of months ago within the Flying Free program. In this episode, I cover the following issues:I keep feeling like his sadness, loss, and grief over losing me are all my fault.All of a sudden, my husband has a lawyer and a few other suspicious things going on. I know I need a lawyer now too, but I don't have any money and I don't have any time, and I'm stuck.I'm having a hard time speaking my own opinions without stumbling over my words.I feel selfish for wanting a divorce, and I feel resentful that it's dragging out.I'm in an abusive marriage and I'm struggling with how not to feel hurt or react to the ways that he is harming me.I've spent the last three years dragging my feet about filing for divorce. How do I move forward?Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

What would you do if you found out that your husband of twenty-two years was arrested and put in jail for domestic violence during the time you were first dating him… and you didn’t know about it until now? Stacie’s story is one of betrayal, loss, disappointment, and then a rising from the ashes. After twenty-two years, she finally had the bravery to say “no” to abuse and say “yes” to loving the woman with her name. Follow along as she outlines the red flags that she saw when they were first dating, the tumultuous journey of their marriage as her husband mistreated and abused the woman he promised to love and care for, and the climax — her escape from it all.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.

Many emotional abuse victims have been accused of having a victim mentality—as if the abuse isn’t real. Some victims don’t like to be labeled a “victim.” It sounds weak and powerless. Recently, one of my listeners asked this question: “How do we accept the reality of abuse without living as a victim?”In today’s episode we’re going to clear up this confusion by answering the following questions:What are ten characteristics of someone who has a victim mentality? What are the ten characteristics of someone who is a true victim?What are ten ways we go from victim to survivor?Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereIf you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.comI'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list. You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.comAnd finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher.