Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

Hello! Dr. Jill Levitt and I have an amazing full-day CE workshop on changing core beliefs coming up in a few weeks. If you've ever struggled with Perfectionism, Perceived Perfectionism, or the Love, Achievement, or Approval Addictions, you're going to love this all-new workshop called The Deeper Dimension in CBT. Sign up now at CBT-Workshop.com. 📅 Friday, April 24, 2026 🕛 8:30 AM – 4:30 PM PT CE Workshop for Therapists $195 Register Here: CBT-Workshop.com This workshop will include new teaching and treatment techniques, and we'll go much further than any previous presentations on Core Beliefs. Learning therapy is much like learning to ride a bicycle. You've got to get on and ride. Book learning won't help. That's why you'll work through your own Self-Defeating Beliefs during this highly interactive workshop. As you change, the tools for helping your clients will become crystal clear. We'll also answer the question: where do you go next once you decide to give up your Self-Defeating Beliefs? You'll walk away from this amazing workshop with concrete, easy-to-use tools you can apply in your very next therapy session and in your life as well. You'll also experience a profound and exciting shift in your personal philosophy.

#495 Stop Helping! Here's How. Featuring Thai-An Truong on Codependency Thai-An Truong, LPC, LADC is a Certified TEAM-CBT Trainer, Level 5 and loves sharing tools and processes to help other therapists feel more confident, effective, and joyful in their work with their clients. In her private practice in Oklahoma, she is passionate about helping people heal from past trauma and OCD. She also has a special interest in helping her clients improve their relationships and overall connection with their partners and loved ones. We often hear the word, co-dependency thrown around. Today's podcast will be unique: you'll hear a totally brilliant and lucid explanation of how to treat it within the TEAM CBT model. It will be explained and illustrated with role-playing demonstrations by Rhonda and Thai-An. These demonstrations are fantastic! You'll love them! But let's start with what codependency is. I'll give you my take on it first, as my understanding has been based on observation. I see it as the compulsive urge to help another person who appears to be hurting or struggling. Well, that's nothing wrong with that, for sure! But where it gets yucky is where there is an ongoing pattern of helping, followed by stuckness on the part of the person who is hurting, ending up with both parties feeling frustrated and angry. We've talked about this general topic a great deal on the show, and in fact, TEAM CBT emerged as a radical alternative to the compulsive, codependent "helping" we often see in the community of mental health professionals. And we've seen this too, among parents and their children. Rhonda and I have done many podcasts on the topic of "How to Help and How NOT to Help," (for example, #164: https://feelinggood.com/2019/10/28/164-how-to-help-and-how-not-to-help/). And we've done many, including a great recent podcast with Dr. Taylor Chesney, on how parents can talk to teens and children without trying to control or scold them—by forming a warm and respectful relationship, using the Five Secrets. According to a Google search, codependency involves "excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, often characterized by neglecting one's own needs. The four main types of codependency are the Caretaker, Enabler, Controller, and Adjuster. These roles represent different ways individuals, often with low self-esteem, sacrifice their well-being to manage relationships." To get things started, Rhonda and Thai-An discuss he various definitions and meanings of co-dependency. Thai-An described an attractive woman she treated who ended up with an alcoholic man who gave her very little in terms of healthy emotional support or love. But she told herself, "He's the only one who's there for me. , , I won't be able to find anyone else." There's also a strong dimension of "I NEED to fix this person," as opposed to asking if they need help, and deciding whether you can actually meet their need. They also pointed out, with example, that "throwing help at people" (as I call it) actually forces them to resist. They talked about the shame involved in codependency, and then illustrated Option B: TEAM -CBT, where empathy is always a crucially important first step. Then you can move to the Triple Paradox, to help the codependent patient illuminate three crucial motivational pieces: Column 1: The positive rewards of trying to "help" this person. Column 2: The downside of changing and giving up this pattern. Column 3: What your codependency shows about you and your core values as a human being that's positive and awesome. Then after listing 20 to 30 or more powerful reasons to continue acting in a codependent manner, you can ask them if it's working for them, or if they can think of any reasons to change. So, right away, you are modeling a totally anti-codependent way of "helping" your codependent patient. Only then, if the patient can convince you that they really do want help, Thai-An and Rhonda modeled some kick-ass M = Methods that can be incredibly helpful, including, but not at all limited to: The co-dependency Double Standard Technique. The role play with Rhonda and Thai-An was eye-opening and jaw-dropping! The Devil's Advocate Technique when tempted to "help." The Decision-Making Tool The Externalization of Voices And many more. I want to thank you, Thai-An, and you, Rhonda, for a truly phenomenal podcast today. Awesome work! From Rhonda: Speaking for me and Thai-An, it was our pleasure and honor to be on the podcast with you David! And always a pleasure to learn with the brilliant Thai-An, one of the most phenomenal teachers and trainers in the TEAM community.

What if the old techniques don't work now? What can I do if I'm boring on dating apps? How do I balance TEAM CBT with Life? Do relapses come from out of the blue? Carlos continues with his question(s) first addressed on last week's podcast. He'd recovered from depression using TEAM CBT, but had a question about how to challenge his negative thoughts during a relapse, as well as how to balance TEAM CBT with life. Plus a dating question from a man who's never had a date! Today's questions begin here. Should I use a brand-new CBT technique to help me overcome my current negative thoughts? I've been using my previous solutions (Exposure Therapy and Daily Mood Log) however, they don't seem to help out as much as they used to. How do I balance Team CBT and life? I've been having a difficult time finding the right balance between Therapy and Life. Whenever I strictly do therapy, I feel good, but then feel sad that I sacrifice other activities in order to do the therapy. Inversely, whenever I do activities (while only occasionally doing therapy), I feel conned by my anxiety and feel as if I can't enjoy doing my activities. Can you relapse despite having no apparent issues in life? I'm currently on Christmas break, without much pressure to find a job. Yet despite this, I'm feeling more anxious right now than I was in university! How is this possible? Is there perhaps a hidden emotion or desire that I'm not expressing? Regardless of how negative I feel right now, I'm doing my absolute best to stay positive and keep working on myself with Team CBT. I'm looking forward to resolving my anxiety with the help of your awesome tools! It was an honor speaking with you, thank you for reading! -Carlos David's Answer Great question, and I'll give you a (hopefully) great answer on the podcast! But here's the quickie answer. Focus on one specific moment when you'd like to be feeling happier, or when you need help to become the person you want to be. Then use a Daily Mood Log, Habit / Addiction Log (HAL), or Relationship Journal, depending on what's needed. This is the exact same fractal concept we use in all of TEAM CBT! Warmly, david I am overly sincere and boring on dating apps. What can I do to correct this? Michael writes: Hi Dr burns I am 30 and never dated anyone. Whenever I start chatting on dating apps I seem very boring or sincere person how can I talk to someone in this? Regards, Michael (disguised name)

What can I do if I relapse? Good Morning Dr. Burns, I will make this email quick, as I'm sure you have several other emails to read through. First off, thank you so much for your research and contributions to TEAM CBT! My mother introduced me to this form of therapy in 2022, and it has been a big help in overcoming my extremely painful perfectionism anxiety. Unfortunately, after graduating from university, I've begun relapsing once again. As such, I would like to ask a few things Carlos: (His remaining questions will be answered on Podcast 494.) Is it harder to get out of a relapse than the first time? I feel as if my relapse has been a lot trickier to get out of, despite the fact I have more tools and techniques. David's response. This depends entirely on whether you've done Relapse Prevention Training to prepare for relapses ahead of time. You can read all about it in the last chapter of my most recent book, Feeling Great. You can also learn about RPT on a number of podcasts, and even hear me doing it live with many individuals at the end of their personal work. Here are two examples randomly chosen among dozens I have published. 427: https://feelinggood.com/2024/12/16/426-ask-david-dreading-the-day-solving-mother-daughter-problems-romance-and-more/ 389: https://feelinggood.com/2024/03/25/389-the-story-of-amy-part-2-of-2/ And you'll a great many more if you look. Just use the search function on my website and you'll find a wealth of podcasts on RPT. Short answer: If you HAVE recovered and done RPT (takes 30 minutes) it will usually be much easier for you to smash your negative thought(s), using the same methods that helped you the first time. If you HAVEN'T recovered and done RPT, it may be much more challenging. Thanks for the important question, Carlos!

Download the incredible Feeling Great app today for FREE at FeelingGreat.com! This is my $99 GIFT for you. - Dr. David Burns

Meet the Fantastic—and Controversial—Dr. David Healy Psychiatric Drug Companies-- What Are They NOT Telling Us? Today, we are thrilled to interview the famed and courageous Dr. David Healy. I have admired his work for many years, but never imagined I'd have the chance to meet him and chat with him. First things first. You may know Dr. David Healy for some of his highly controversial books, like "The Antidepressant Era," "Let Them Eat Prozac," and "Pharmageddon." But who is he, really? According to AI, Dr. David Healy is a prominent Welsh psychiatrist, psychopharmacologist, and critic of the pharmaceutical industry known for his research on antidepressants, their links to suicide, and exposing industry practices like ghostwriting and disease-mongering, operating through initiatives like RxISK.org to promote drug safety. He has a long history of challenging Big Pharma, facing academic backlash (like losing a University of Toronto post) for his views, and serving as an expert witness in legal cases involving psychotropic drugs, advocating for greater transparency and patient safety. Healy initially worked with pharmaceutical companies, gaining firsthand knowledge of how SSRIs were marketed despite their trial weaknesses, focusing on the oversimplified serotonin hypothesis. He then became a vocal critic, highlighting issues like ghostwriting articles and manipulating academic opinion to sell drugs, leading to conflicts with industry-funded institutions. He founded RxISK.org, a platform for patients to report adverse drug reactions, aiming to make medicines safer. His strong stance (on research linking SSRI antidepressants to increased suicidal thoughts and urges) led to intense and corrosive controversy, including losing a professorship at the University of Toronto (though later settled as a visiting role) and harassment, noted here and here. In recent years, he has acted as an expert witness in cases involving drug-related suicides and homicides, bringing issues to regulators. In essence, Dr. David Healy is a significant, often controversial, figure dedicated to drug safety, academic integrity, and patient awareness in psychiatry, challenging established narratives and industry power. Taking a deeper dive, AI has added this critically important information: David Healy has discussed numerous examples of conflicts of interest that mainly involve the influence of the pharmaceutical industry on medical research, publication, and practice. Key examples he has highlighted include: Ghostwriting of Articles: Pharmaceutical companies hire medical communication firms to draft research articles or reviews, and then get prominent academics or clinicians to put their names on the papers as the sole or primary authors, a practice known as ghostwriting. The named authors often have little to no involvement in the actual research or writing. Hiding or Misrepresenting Data: Drug companies have concealed unfavorable data or miscoded raw data on drug risks, such as the link between antidepressants and suicidal acts. This manipulation can make a drug appear safer or more effective than it actually is. Biased Clinical Trial Design: Healy notes instances where clinical trials are designed with "tricks," such as using inadequate or excessive doses of comparison medications to make the company's own drug look superior. Marketing-Driven Education: A large portion of continuing medical education (CME) classes for doctors are sponsored by industry. Healy argues this leads to a bias in the information presented to doctors, with an emphasis on the benefits of brand-name drugs rather than an objective assessment of all treatment options. Gifts and Payments to Physicians: Drug companies spend billions annually on marketing directed at doctors, including free samples, sales visits, and small non-educational gifts or lunches. Healy points out that while many doctors believe these gifts don't affect their own prescribing, studies show they influence prescribing patterns and create subtle biases. Industry Influence on Academia: Healy's own experience with a job offer being rescinded at the University of Toronto, which had received a large donation from a drug company (Eli Lilly), is a prominent case he uses to illustrate how industry funding can infringe upon academic freedom and stifle critical research. "Disease Mongering": Healy argues that the pharmaceutical industry often engages in "disease mongering," marketing conditions to the public and physicians to create a market for their products rather than simply addressing genuine medical needs. So that hopefully gives you some idea of the scope of his work, and his vision of transparency and integrity in the reporting one the effectiveness and risks of psychotropic medications. In our conversation today, he emphasized the importance of listening to patients who describe side effects of medications, such as SSRIs, in described the efforts of Big Pharma to suppress such complaints, giving psyc

Ask David, #491, featuring our beloved Dr. Matthew May. Can Introverts be helped? How can we enhance our happiness? What's the best movie to watch if your father rejected you? How can I identify my feelings? The answers to the first two questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today's Questions Anonymous asks: Can an introvert become more extroverted? Or are these personality traits "fixed" and unchanging? Seve asks: I know that TEAM can be super helpful for negative thoughts and feelings, but what are the best tools to enhance happiness and become the person we want to be? I have a patient whose father rejected her when she was young. What would be a good movie that I could recommend for her? Anonymous asks: I don't know how to identify my feelings. Can you help? Today's Answers Question #1 Anonymous asks: Can an introvert become more extroverted? Or are these personality traits "fixed" and unchanging? Dear Dr. Burns, I hope this message finds you well. I would like to ask you a question regarding personality traits. Some articles suggest that introversion and extraversion are relatively stable characteristics—meaning that an introverted person cannot truly become more extroverted, and vice versa (or at least not to a great extent). They also propose that introverts tend to lose energy in social situations and recharge when alone, whereas extroverts gain energy from social interaction. I'm very curious to know your thoughts on this topic. Do you believe an introverted person can become more extroverted? And in your view, is an introvert's need for solitude more of a true "need" or a "want"? Thank you very much for your time and for the inspiration your work has provided to so many of us. Warm regards, Anonymous David's reply If you like, I can make this an Ask David question for an upcoming podcast! It's a cool question and raises many questions: Do "personalities" even "exist?" Is this like the question, "Do we have a self?" It also focuses on the issue of whether we can change and grow, or whether there is some invisible barrier beyond which we can grow any further, due to some inherent "limit" due to our "personality type." Best, david Question #2 Dr. Dear David: I know first-hand how helpful TEAM CBT can be to address negative thoughts and emotions but our path to a happier life and to the person we want to be never really ends. Are there any other tools that Dr. David may have come across and can suggest for someone's growth? Thank you, Steve David's Answer Great question, and I'll give you a (hopefully) great answer on the podcast! But here's the quickie answer. Focus on one specific moment when you'd like to be feeling happier, or when you need help on become the person you want to be, and then use a Daily Mood Log, Habit / Addiction Log (HAL), or Relationship Journal, depending on what's needed. This is the exact same fractal concept we use in all of TEAM CBT! Warmly, david Question #3 Hi podcast crew: I have a patient whose father rejected her when she was young. What would be a really good movie to recommend do her? David's Answer Sadly, I lost my notes from this podcast, but in general David and Matt found this question somewhat offensive, as it suggests you can chase a problem (father rejected me) with a method, in this case recommending a good movie. We, instead, would recommend TEAM CBT, which is real therapy, and not gimmicks. Movies can be rewarding, but that's not the same as effective therapy! Rhonda asked David and Matt what was wrong with recommending a movie in the same way we recommend books for clients to read. Have a listen to hear their response. Question #4 Anonymous asks: I don't know how to identify my feelings. Can you help? David's Answer Rhonda said one of her clients could not identify their feelings, unless they have the Feelings Chart in front of them. David thought that anyone could identify their feelings and explained. One simple way is to identify a specific moment when you were upset and wanting help. Think about what was going on, who wee you with, where were you, etc. Then review the Feeling Words charts, which I will link to, to see how many, and which ones, resonate with how you were feeling at that time, or how you may still be feeling. Feeling Words Chart with Five Secrets, v 2 Another way is to draw a Stick Figure of yourself, and put a bubble above its head. Then imagine the Stick Figure is upset and put the Stick Figure's negative thoughts and feelings in the bubble. They don't have to be your feelings and thoughts, just make some up. Do it now—on paper! DON'T just think about it. That never works! Have you done it yet? No? That's what I suspected. If you ever DO want the answer to your question, so the stick figure on paper and then write me back. Thanks! Finally, you can listen to the podcast on "I Feel" Statements, and spend one week telling five people a day how you feel

Sexting, Bullying, and Social Media-- A Compassionate, Practical Guide for Parents of Teens Today, we welcome back one of our favorite guests, Taylor Chesney, director of the Feeling Good Institute in New York City. Taylor specializes in TEAM-CBT with children and adolescents and brings a rare combination of clinical expertise and real-life wisdom as the mother of four. Parents everywhere are worried about social media, sexting, porn, bullying, and the fear that their kids are doing "who knows what" behind closed doors. In this episode, Taylor offers a refreshing and deeply practical message: the solution isn't better apps, stricter rules, or surveillance—it's connection. Why Blaming Technology Misses the Point Teen brains are still developing. They're impulsive, thrill-seeking, and wired for belonging and validation. Give teens instant access to peers and social media, and mistakes are inevitable. Taylor emphasizes that technology itself isn't good or bad—it amplifies what's already happening in a teen's emotional world. The real question isn't how to eliminate technology, but how parents can guide kids in using it safely and thoughtfully. The Real Protective Factor: Communication Parents often ask, "What app should I install?" or "How do I stop this?" Taylor suggests these questions lead to dead ends. What truly protects teens is a relationship where they feel: understood rather than judged supported rather than interrogated safe coming to parents after a mistake As Taylor explains, for most teens it's not if they'll face a difficult online situation—it's when. The goal is to make sure they come to you when it happens. How to Talk So Teens Will Open Up Using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, especially the Disarming Technique, parents can shift from policing to coaching. Instead of: "Why were you on your phone?" Try: "Help me understand what was going on for you." This approach reduces secrecy and increases trust. Porn, Sexting, and Shame Discovering porn or sexting can trigger panic and anger in parents—but shaming almost always backfires. Taylor suggests responding with curiosity and empathy: "What was that like for you?" "What do you understand about the difference between porn and real intimacy?" Sexting often begins innocently—seeking connection, validation, or closeness—but once an image is sent, control is lost. Open conversations help teens think ahead without feeling judged or controlled. Parents can also teach teens simple, self-respecting responses like: "I care about you, but I don't need to send that to prove it." Bullying and Online Drama Online bullying mirrors real-life dynamics—but faster, more public, and more permanent. Taylor shares concrete skills teens can use: Pause before responding Don't engage when emotions are high Exit or mute toxic chats Involve an adult early Helpful phrases teens can practice include: "This chat is getting mean—I'm stepping out." "I'm not comfortable with this." "Let's take a break." The Big Takeaway Mistakes—by teens and parents—are inevitable. The real danger isn't errors; it's secrecy. When kids know they can come to their parents without fear of shame or punishment, they make better decisions and recover more quickly when things go wrong. As Taylor puts it: "The kids with the best relationships with their parents make the best decisions." Thanks for listening, and heartfelt thanks to Taylor for this wise, compassionate, and deeply reassuring conversation. — David, Rhonda, and Taylor

Download the amazing Feeling Great app today for FREE at FeelingGreat.com! This is my $99 GIFT for you. – Dr. David Burns

Meet Richard Lam-- Master TEAM CBT Teacher and Therapist! Today we chat with Richard Lam. Richard is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in private practice in Mountain View, California. He is a graduate of Palo Alto University. He currently provides short-term therapy for anxiety, OCD, habits/addictions, depression, and relationship concerns using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Richard also trains other therapists in David Burn's model of CBT called TEAM-CBT Therapy. He is a certified Level 5 Master Therapist and Trainer in TEAM-CBT Therapy. And today, Richard has gifts for you! They are fantastic! See below! I began by asking Richard how he got interested in teaching. When he was first learning, he was tutored by Dr. Angela Krumm, an advanced TEAM CBT practitioner and one of the three founders of the Feeling Good Institute. He was loving the training, but one day she said, "That's all I can teach you. Now you have to start teaching!" And that started the wagon rolling down the hill. Richard is particularly interested in developing free self-help tools for patients, but also runs a special training class for TEAM CBT therapists who themselves want to become trainers. It meets in-person at the FGI office on Mondays from 12 to 2 PM. If interested, contact Richard (contact information is at bottom of show notes.) Richard is one of our most articulate TEAM CBT teachers, and is renown for some of his live demonstrations of specific techniques, like Forced Empathy. He has created a series of multi-page interactive teaching guides for a variety of techniques, so you can learn exactly how to do the Double Standard Technique, or the Externalization of Voices in a simple, clear, step-ty-step manner. Here are links to several examples. Check them out and feel free to share them with your patients if you are a TEAM therapist. These links are all kick ass! Check them out and do the exercises. You'll be glad you did! Link to Double Standard Technique Link to Externalization of Voices Link to Externalization of Resistance Link to I Feel Statements, Part 1 Link to I Feel Statements, Part 2 Link to Feared Fantasy Link to Forced Empathy Link to Forced Empathy Handout Link to Future Projection, for Habits Link to Paradoxical Ultimatum Richard tells us that mental health works a lot like physical health. When we don't regularly care for our bodies, things start to deteriorate and the same is true for our minds. These tools give you a way to keep nurturing your mental health so you can maintain a strong, healthy mind. Richard and I also discussed Acceptance--one of the most difficult concepts for patients and therapists alike to "get." I was delighted to learn he has a five-point plan to help people grasp this concept. Richard's Five Steps to Acceptance 1. The Win-Win Principle: How can I see this loss as a win? In high school, Richard had a patient whose heart was set on making the varsity basketball team, and was heartbroken when he only made the junior varsity team. But then he got to thinking that it would be fun to be the start on the JV team because his best friend is also going to be in JV. He relaxed and started to enjoy his practices with the team. And He was promptly promoted to the varsity team! 2. Remember the butterfly effect! Richard described getting angry and frustrated when he was late for an important appointment, and the car in front of him was moving slowly and caused a delay at a red light. His first impulse was to get angry and insist it SHOULDN'T have happened. But then, in reflection, he thought: "Wait a minute. This delay will change the entire trajectory of the rest of my life. And who knows, this could have save my life from some future tragedy if the trajectory of my life had been on time." 3, Growth mindset I have always thought of this important idea in simple terms. There is really no such "thing," from a Buddhist perspective, as "success" or "failure." These are just experiences. But often things do not turn out as one hoped. Instead of caving in, giving up, or feeling depressed or frustrated, although those are perfectly reasonable human experiences, you can accept your failure and view it as an opportunity for growth and learning. Our 9 month old grandson has reminded me that when we are learning to walk, we "fail" constantly, falling over, etc. But these are steps in learning that eventually culminates in the ability to walk--which is a miracle! 4. The spiritual view Acceptance can be thought of as letting go of judgement. Richard treated a woman who was angry at God because she could not have children, and she had always dreamed of having a big family. But from a medical perspective, her anger and constant agitation were actually the main reason she couldn't get pregnant. Shen she began working on reducing her anger using TEAM CBT, she was able to relax, and accept her fate with greater in peace. And then she suddenly got pregnant! I, David, have seen this on many occasions. Check out Po

Let's face it. We ALL procrastinate. Attempts to "help" nearly always backfire. Dr. David Burns gets it. Procrastinators don't want help — they want something that actually works. In his upcoming free webinar on February 25, Dr. Burns introduces his paradoxical approach and ten powerful TEAM CBT tools that deliver results. Sign up now at FeelingGoodWebinar.com. Everyone is welcome! Therapists can purchase two CE credits if they attend the live event. See you there!

(featured photo shows David, his wife Yvonne, and son, Joey, when young) Meet the Incredible Dr. David Antonuccio, Part 2 of 2 Shrink, Songwriter, and Hero Today we continue our conversation with my dear friend and esteemed colleague, Dr. David Antonuccio, a true scholar, clinician, researcher, musician, and champion of scientific transparency. The Nicotine Patch Study David revisited his landmark research on the nicotine patch, a costly trial involving roughly 600 participants who were randomly assigned to receive either a real nicotine patch or a sham patch. The goals were to assess safety and efficacy. The safety data looked reassuring. However, the efficacy findings were unexpected: the placebo patch worked just as well as the active nicotine patch in reducing smoking. The sponsoring company published the safety data but refused to publish—and refused David access to—the efficacy findings, which showed no advantage for the nicotine patch. You can check the link to the NEJM article here. David writes: "Notice the 48 week follow-up data were excluded in this paper despite the fact that they were available. That really annoyed me. I also now believe that the original version of the paper was ghostwritten and ghost analyzed by the industry folks.in other words. I'm not sure that the authors ever had access to the "raw" data before they were analyzed." This was important because there was a decrease in smoking DURING the study among those wearing the patch, and getting their "fix" of nicotine that way. . . but what happened AFTER the study? David writes: "Here is the link to the follow up paper that emphasized efficacy and included the 48 week follow-up data." Notice that this paper was not published until three years later, when the Nicotine Patch had already been heavily advertised and sold on the market. This early experience in his career revealed the tension between marketing interests which focus on sales, and scientific interests which focus on truth and transparency—a daunting and frustrating pattern that would emerge again and again in his career. Expert Testimony in a Tragic Criminal Case David then described expert testimony he provided in a deeply troubling legal case. A 72-year-old woman, happily married for 50 years and a respected kindergarten teacher, had recently been prescribed Paxil, along with Ambien and Ativan. She abruptly, and without memory, woke up in the middle of the night and stabbed her husband 200 times and was subsequently arrested for homicide. There was no jury trial; instead, a plea bargain was used to determine sentencing. Dr. David Antonuccio was called as an expert witness in her defense. He described Dr. David Healy's research documenting a significant increase in both suicidal and violent urges among some patients taking SSRIs, especially Paxil. He argued that this woman's bizarre behavior was consistent with a drug-induced dissociative or fugue state. Based in part on David's testimony, the charge was reduced to manslaughter, and the judge sentenced her to time served, allowing her to return home to her children. For more on this topic: David Healy's Research on SSRIs and Homicidal Urge SSRIs Called on Carpet Over Violence Claims Black Box Warnings and Patient Rights David also emphasized the urgent need to revise Black Box warnings to reflect the full range of possible toxic or dissociative effects of psychiatric medications—not just suicidality. He has long advocated for a Patient Bill of Rights to ensure scientific transparency and informed consent. A Surprising Conversation with Dr. John Nash David shared a fascinating personal story about calling Dr. John Nash, whose life inspired the award-winning film A Beautiful Mind. In the movie, Nash's recovery from schizophrenia is portrayed as medication-dependent. However, Nash told David directly that this was not true—the medication narrative was added to the script, possibly out of concern that portraying his recovery without meds might discourage viewers from taking prescribed medications. Nash said: "What saved me was the support of family and friends." Music, Truth, and "Buzz" David is also a talented songwriter. One of his songs, "Buzz," addresses the emotional and ethical issues surrounding electroconvulsive therapy (ECT). The inspiration came from a man in the Midwest who was legally ordered to undergo ECT against his will. A widespread public outcry ultimately convinced the judge to rescind the order. Forgiveness and "In the Air Tonight" One of David's favorite songs is Phil Collins' "In the Air Tonight," which he sees as a deeply spiritual musical meditation on forgiveness—a theme David considers one of the most powerful psychological forces we possess. David explains that the Phil Collin's song is about forgiveness, but more indirectly and specifically about the songwriter's inability to forgive. And yes—David sang it live for us on the podcast! You might be interested in this chapter that David coauthored on

Stories from a Giant and Gadfly Discover the Protest Music of RainFall!-- like "The Antidepressant Blues!" Today, we are delighted to spend some time with a dear friend and highly esteemed colleague, Dr. David Antonuccio. David is a retired Clinical Psychologist and Professor Emeritus in the Dept. of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Nevada, Reno, School of Medicine. In addition to his academic work, David had his own clinical practice for 40 years. He has published over 100 academic articles and multiple books, primarily on the treatment of depression, anxiety, or smoking cessation. Since his retirement from practice in 2020, he has been making music as part of a duo called RainFall, with his musical partner Michael Pierce. Their music can be found on Spotify, Apple music, and Soundcloud, among other streaming services. I first became familiar with David when a colleague recommended his article entitled: "Psychotherapy versus medication for depression: challenging the conventional wisdom with data," which was published in Professional Psychology: Research and Practice way back in 1995. The article blew my socks off. In the first place, he had come to the many of the same conclusions I had come to, that antidepressants had few "real" effects above and beyond their placebo effects. However, he also had incredible insights into some of the problems and loopholes with drug company research studies on antidepressants, so I tried to get as many colleagues and students as possible to read that article. Here is the article link Although I had never met David, he became my hero. One day, while I was giving one of my two-day CBT workshops in Nevada, I was singing his praises and urging participants to read that classic article, but, unexpectedly, some people started chuckling. At a break, I asked someone why people had been laughing. They said, "Didn't you know that David Antonuccio is here attending this workshop? He was out visiting the bathroom when you were singing his praises, so he didn't hear you!" And that's how we met! I couldn't believe my good fortune in meeting this brilliant and humble man in person. And to my good fortune, we became good friends right off the bat and eventually did a lot of fun professional work together, like our exciting conference challenging the chemical imbalance theory of depression which we called the Rumble in Reno. I was also proud to be included as a co-author in a popular article with David and William Danton reviewing the brilliant work of Irving Kirsch. Kirsch had re-analyzed all the data on antidepressants in the FDA archives and concluded that the chemicals called "antidepressants" had few, if any, clinically significant effects above and beyond their placebo effects. In that paper, we also emphasized the ongoing power struggle between the needs of science and the needs of marketing. Science is devoted to discovering and reporting the truth, based on research, regardless of where it leads, while marketing, sadly, is ultimately loyal to the bottom line, even if deception is required. Here is the link to our article: And here is the full reference: Antonuccio, D. O., Burns, D., & Danton, W. G. (2002). Antidepressants: A Triumph of Marketing over Science? Prevention and Treatment, 5, Article 25. Web link: http://journals.apa.org/prevention/volume5/toc-jul15-02.htm I was sad when David retired from his clinical, teaching, and research career a number of years ago in order to spend more time on creating and recording music because, a passion he'd put on the shelf during the most active years of his career. I felt we'd lost an important and courageous leader in the behavioral sciences, and felt an emptiness, like an important pioneer was suddenly missing. The following link provides a highly readable brief overview of David's career focus and interests. I was thrilled to learn just recently that David has partly resumed his role as gadfly of the behavioral sciences, rejoining the fight for science, ethics and for truth, regardless of where that leads or whose feathers are ruffled. And now, we sit down together to reminisce about his personal life and experiences with many of the greats in our field, like Dr. David Healey, Irving Kirsch, and others who have also stood up for the truth, based on their research, in spite of intense opposition from the establishment. And, today David also brings us his music, with his colleague, Michael Pierce, RainFall. Some of his music has psychiatric / psychological themes, like his "Antidepressant Blues," Some of David's music has humanistic and political themes. He said: Here's a song we just released yesterday that i will assume would not be relevant to the podcast. It is called Final Embrace and was inspired by a heart-breaking international wire photo of a Salvadoran immigrant father hugging his daughter, both deceased, in the rio grande in 2019. Here's the link to the original news story. David's two-man group, Rain

"Doctor, why won't you ever tell me how you really feel?" Therapist Self-Disclosure-- Featuring Dr. Carly Zankman This week, Dr. Carly Zankman joins us to discuss a really interesting and controversial topic—self-disclosure by a therapist. When is it helpful? And when is it an ethics violation? When I was a psychiatric resident, my supervisors (mainly psychoanalytic) cautioned me NEVER to share my feelings with patients. This felt really awkward at time, but is there some wisdom in that advice? And if so, what IS the wisdom? How does it work or help? And if that rule—never sharing your feelings or personal life--is too rigid, then when and how should we share our feelings and personal experiences with our patients? What is the goal, and what are the best practices? As most of you know, I have often been extremely critical of what I was taught as a psychiatric resident, thinking the teachings were based more on tradition than on science or data. And when it came to never share your feelings, I sometimes used to think about this issue along these lines: Let's assume that one of our jobs is to help our patients become more vulnerable and genuine, by sharing how they really feel inside instead of acting fake and always presenting a happy or professional face to the world. That goal seems reasonable, and it's a prime goal of a great many therapists. But how are we supposed to accomplish that goal by acting fake and hiding our own feelings? That just did not seem to make sense to me! But there are lots of traps when it comes to sharing your feelings. What if the patient is attracted to you, or vice versa? What if you do not like the patient, or feel turned off by them or annoyed with them? In today's podcast, we will try to sort out some of these questions, with help from the vivacious and brilliant Carly Zankman, Psy.D. (INSERT CARLY'S BIOSKETCH AND BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF HER TEAM CBT CLINICAL WORK IN MOUNTAIN VIEW, California. Carly described being taught similar things in graduate school, cautioning the students against opening up in a personal way during sessions. However, one of her supervisors listened to one of her sessions with a patient, and said, "the greatest gift you bring to therapy is just opening up and bringing your own, genuine and authentic self into the room." Carly described being taught similar things in graduate school, cautioning the students against opening up in a personal way during sessions. However, one of her supervisors listened to one of her therapy sessions with a patient, and said, "Your greatest gift is bringing your own, genuine and authentic self into the room," and from that point forward, everything shifted in how she viewed her role in the therapeutic relationship. Carly describes working with a patient recently and receiving a 19 / 20 on the Empathy scale at the end of the session. Although 9 out of 10 therapists would say that's a terrific, near-perfect score, on our scoring key it is rated as a failing grade. That's because the patient is telling you that you didn't quite "get" something about them, or didn't quite connect with them in a completely warm and supportive way. Carly's patient was a 40 year old recently re-married woman with a new baby, and struggling with a lot of regret, guilt, shame, depression, and anxiety. Carly decided on a hunch it might be a good idea to share her personal story, since she saw this woman as a mirror image of herself. Carly asked the patient if she wanted Carly to share her story, and this patient lit right up and was excited. It turned out to be tremendously helpful and was what she needed to believe Carly's empathy was real and not phony. The patient said that in the past she'd had many therapists, but none of them had ever share their personal experiences or feelings. Why was that so helpful? How does it work? And what are some red lines that you do NOT want to cross as a therapist? These are just a few of the ideas we discussed on today's podcast. We listed and briefly discussed a few of the many situations where it might NOT make sense to share our feelings or experiences with patients. Rhonda pointed out that if you've had a traumatic experience and you're feeling quite depressed, anxious, or angry, and have not yet had the chance to do your own personal work, it would not be the best idea to share it with your patient, because you might be using the patient as your own therapy or support network. You also would not share feelings of sexual or romantic attraction to a patient strong personal feelings of unresolved depression, anxiety, or anger Some feelings you might share with your patient, but only if you have the great therapeutic skill to do so in a helpful, illuminating way, such as feelings of dislike or anger toward the patient. We also discussed the danger of therapy degenerating into a paid friend relationship, and asked how that differed from the work of Dr. Irvin Yalom, the famous Stanford psychiatrist who taught us that

Helping a Loved One with Schizophrenia Treating OCD! My Hands Might Be Contaminated! How To Mend an Angry, Broken Heart The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Joel asks: How can we use TEAM CBT to help a patient or loved one struggling with schizophrenia? Jean asks: Since CBT won't work with OCD, should we use exposure or the Hidden Emotion Technique instead? Jim asks: When someone has objectively hurt you, like your partner has had an affair, how do you get over that pain? And here are the answers. Question #1 Dear Dr Burns, I learned from you that the foundational principle of CBT is that our emotions, and ultimately our behaviors, are rooted in thoughts or beliefs. Are there emotional and/or behavioral disorders (perhaps like schizophrenia) that are rooted in abnormal neurobiological brain pathologies, rather than in distorted cognitions or self-defeating beliefs? And if so, is TEAM CBT relevant to helping those suffering from these "psychoses"? With much gratitude, respect, and affection, Joel Question #2 Dear Dr. Burns: I'm curious if you have thoughts about the problem of talking back to the obsessive thoughts in OCD. Thank you, Jean Question #3 Dear Dr. Burns: When someone has objectively hurt you, like your partner has had an affair, how do you get over that pain? I am not having thoughts that I did anything wrong, or there is something the matter with me, I feel sad, hurt and confused and angry. Jim Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 3 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the live and unedited follow-up session with Madeleine, a loving mother who became terrified when she realized that her oldest beloved daughter might be in mortal danger during her hear abroad while in college. Part 3 of 3 We were a bit rushed near the end of M = Methods in Part 2 because of a mistake that I (David) made. I forgot that we had extended this webinar by 30 minutes, so we wouldn't be rushed at the end, so I wrongly concluded we were running out of time when we weren't! In order to complete our work, we scheduled Part 3 several weeks later to do the following critical pieces of the work with Madeleine. Additional work with the Externalization of Voices to make sure she could knock all of her self-critical thoughts out of the park. Cognitive Flooding, using the magazine article she was triggered by to prompt the anxiety. The idea is to make yourself as anxious as possible for as long as possible, until the anxiety and panic eventually loses its punch and becomes boring. This will be one of the first times we have illustrated this technique live in a video-recorded session. Any other loose ends that may have emerged since our first session with the wonderful Madeleine! We did some cognitive flooding, urging Madeleine to close her eyes and describe her most terrifying fantasy involving her daughter's abduction by a sociopathy. We encourage her to make herself as anxious as possible, and within minutes she was at 100% and sobbing. Then we did some "memory" rescripting as we had promised her at the start, and part way through there was an unexpected surge of anger, that seemed to come from out of the blue, although the circumstances of the fantasy were clearly more than enough to trigger rage. Using the technique called "Affect Bridging," I asker her whether the anger she was now feeling might trace back to some earlier traumatic event in her life, perhaps when she was young, and this was confirmed. She described a profoundly troubling indecent involve her mother and dad shortly before they got divorced. There was a tremendous amount of emotion packed into today's follow-up session, almost non-stop, in fact. We look forward to seeing Madeleine's end-of-session Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session. Jill and David assigned follow-up homework for her, including 15 minutes per day reading the terrifying article from People Magazine that had initially triggered her in the beauty salon. We want to thank you, Madeleine for your courage in being so open and real, and for giving us all a unique opportunity for some incredible learning, and also the chance to get to know you at a deep a genuine level! Thanks for listening to these three podcasts. We hope you enjoyed them and learned something useful and helpful, especially if you've also been struggling with feelings of depression and anxiety, or if you're a mental health professional wanting to take a deeper dive in to how TEAM CBT can sometimes produce extremely rapid healing, even from severe feelings of depression, anxiety, and despair. Madeleine, Jill, Rhonda, and David Following the session, Madeleine sent us the following feedback on the session via email: Hi Jill and David, Completed after session yesterday, but in my state of emotional fatigue, forgot to hit send! Brief Mood Survey after session: Depression: 3 / 20 (minimal) Suicidal urges: 0 / 12 (none) Anxiety: 8 / 20 (mildly elevated) Anger: 9 / 20 (mild/moderately elevated) Happiness: 12 / 20 (low) Relationship Satisfaction: 29 / 30 (nearly perfect) Evaluation of Therapy Session Empathy: 20 / 20 (perfect score) Helpfulness: 20 / 20 (perfect score) Satisfaction: 8 / 8 (perfect score) Commitment: 8 /8 (perfect score) Neg feelings: 4 (high, range = 0- 4) Difficulties with Q: 2 (medium, range = 0- 4) What did you like the Least: exposure was pain. It feels very heavy and exhausting. And i understand, necessary to healing. What did you like the Most: David's "bridging" my affect states to discover my rage source. Jill's keeping us on track and making connection from my present worry about daughter's safety to past feelings of betrayal, losing trust, and resulting anger in my dad, a trusted figure. You both hit the nail on the head so many times in the session to uncover the deeper, ugly, messy, dark pools that lie within me i choose to keep safely sealed tight and out of the light. Postscript: I just completed day 1 of exposure in re reading the awful article. All the anxiety and fear resurfaced along with new feelings of revenge, determination, appreciation for the authors who are perhaps trying to help the family by publishing this. Ick. Best Regards, Madeleine Again, a big thanks to you Madeleine, and we will watch closely as you continue your courageous daily exposure work, and look forward to the day when you have won this battle! Warmly, david

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 2 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the exciting conclusion of our work with Madeleine, a loving mother who fears that her eldest daughter might be in mortal danger during her year abroad. Last week, you heard about the T = Testing and E = Empathy phase of the live work with Madeleine, a mother feeling intense panic and helplessness and inadequacy because she fears that her daughter could be in grave danger of abduction and worse. This week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, using the Miracle Cure Question, Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and Magic Dial to see if we can melt away her resistance to change. You can see the Emotions table of the Daily Mood Log Madeleine during the Magic Dial portion of the session if you Click Here As you can see, she wanted to reduce her negative feelings somewhat, but thought she still wanted to keep them fairly elevated, since she still sensed that her daughter might be in real danger, and clearly did not want to abandon her. This is one of the significant refinements in TEAM CBT. First, we want to bring the patient's resistance to full conscious awareness. Second, we want patients to full grasp that their negative thoughts and feelings do NOT result from some "defect" or "mental disorder," but rather from what is most beautiful and awesome about them as human beings. After the Magic Button, David and Jill went on to the final, M = Methods portion of the TEAM session, using tools such as Identify and Explain the Distortions, the Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices, with the Acceptance Paradox, the Self-Defense Paradigm, and the CAT (Counter-Attack Technique). We will, of course, do numerous role reversals to see if we can get Madeleine to a "huge" victory over her many distorted thoughts. You can see the Daily Mood Log Madeleine prepared at the end of the session if you Click Here As you can see, the reductions in negative feelings were dramatic, but in several areas (anxiety, inadequacy, frustration and anger), Madeleine's negative feelings were still minimally elevated. That is one of the reasons we decided to schedule an additional session together several weeks later to see if we could intensify Madeleine's responses to her negative thoughts, and hopefully due some Cognitive Flooding to complete her "treatment." At the end of these show notes, you will find an email from Madeleine after the session that includes her end-of-session scores on the BMS and EOTS. You will also see comments submitted by many participants who attended the webinar live. This email below from Madeleine following the session shows her end of session scores on the Brief Mood Survey as well as the Evaluation of Therapy Session at the end of her session with Jill and David. Hi David, Yes, here are my BMS & ETS score totals after the extended session. Please let me know if you have any questions. A relapse prevention session would be nice; however, I hesitate to accept your offer as you all are so busy. Please know that I am practicing the PTs and keeping the NTs in check for now. Thank you again a million times over😊. Yes, Feel free to use the recording however you like. Like I said, it's the least I can do to contribute to your generous and vitally important work. You are both very inspiring in so many ways. Much gratitude, Madeleine Brief Mood Survey (BMS) Depressed 0 / 20 (complete elimination of depression) Suicidal 0 / 12 Anxious 2 / 20 (near-complete elimination of anxiety) Angry 0 / 20 PF 36 / 40 (dramatic improvement in Positive Feelings) RS 29 / 30 (large improvement in Relationship Satisfaction) Evaluation of Therapy Session (ETS) Empathy 20 / 20 (perfect) Helpfulness 20 / 20 (perfect) Satisfaction 8 / 8 (perfect) Commitment 8 / 8 (perfect) Neg feelings 1 (0 – 4) (uncomfortable at times!) Difficulties w/ answering the questions honestly 0 (0 – 4) (no difficulties) What did you like the least? Crying and blathering in front of all those people. Fortunately, I wasn't able to see any faces except yours😉 What did you like the most? Jill's "smooth as silk" empathy skills, David's laser sharp questions, Jill's rephrasing & untangling of the PT to "unlikely," David's having me write powerful PR stuff down, Jill & David's EOV - so strong, David counterattacking my neg thoughts with "sociopath," Jill's double std delivered in a very gentle way. I never felt rushed! Feedback for Madeleine from the chat during the session Comments for Madeline: Madeline!!! I want you as a therapist. Your ability to show how to feel and describe the feel is courageous and admirable. Thank you. Thank you for sharing Madeline, I can completely relate with you as a mother when we worry and has no control on their actions Definitely relate to Madeleine and appreciate her vulnerability. Thank you for your transparency, Madeleine. We appreciate it and can empathize I totally relate. My children are 30 and 32, I parented in the 90"s;

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 1 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present one of our favorite podcast topics—live work with a real human being who is suffering. We will be working with Madeleine, a woman who read a disturbing article while at the hairdresser and freaked out, sensing that one of her daughters might be in mortal danger. This live and unedited session was first presented as part of a free webinar on September 11, 2025. There was no preparation or role-playing—everything was absolutely real and spontaneous, exactly as it evolved in real time. We present Part 1 as our final Feeling Good Podcast for our 2025 season. This is our most powerful and popular type of podcast, and we hope you enjoy it. We also give a big thanks to our courageous "patient," Madeleine. My co-therapist will be Dr. Jill Levitt, a clinical psychologist and Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California. Jill and I greatly enjoy working together as co-therapists when we teach and we typically see our "patient" for an extended, two-hour session. We find that this is the most effective format for teaching, and that way, we can frequently complete a course of therapy in a single session. However, you do not need more than one therapist to do effective TEAM CBT, and you can do it in conventional 50 minute sessions as well. But often, you can do vastly more in a double session. We will not be engaged in an ongoing therapeutic relationship with Madeleine. When we work with therapists, they are doing personal work as a part of their training. We feel that this experience is vital for every therapist who hopes to do world-class TEAM CBT with their own patients / clients. More than 2,000 individuals registered for this workshop. Although the workshop was open to everyone, only 13% of the participants identified as general public, while 87% identified as mental health professionals. In Part 1, which we present today, we focused on T = Testing and E = Empathy phases of the TEAM session. In Part 2, which you will hear next week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting and M = Methods. We will also show you the changes in her scores on the Daily Mood Log (DML) and Brief Mood Survey (BMS) from the start to the end of the session, as well as Madeleine's scores on the Evaluation of Therapy Session (EOTS) at the end, including what she liked the most and least about the session. That way, we can see clearly how much improvement there was (or wasn't) during the session, and how Jill and I did in terms of empathy, helpfulness, and other scales that evaluate the patient's view of the session. In Part 3, which you will hear in two weeks, we did more Externalization of Voices along with Cognitive Exposure, since we had some loose ends we wanted to tie up before completing our work with Madeleine. This follow-up session occurred many weeks after the initial session at the workshop, and will also serve as a follow-up to see how Madeleine did in the days following the live work. Part 1 of 3 Our "patient," Madeleine, is a courageous woman who experienced sheer panic after being triggered at the hair salon while reading an article about a young woman who was abducted. Since Madeleine's oldest daughter's is away at college, taking a year abroad, Madeleine realized she could not protect her from predators and freaked out, thinking about all the horrible things that could happen to her. In addition, Madeleine had many self-critical thoughts about ways she thought she had failed her daughter when her daughter was growing up, and worried about her daughter's judgement: She hasn't always made the best decisions about guys she's gone out with, and she's shared everything with me. She says, 'Don't worry mom. I've learned from this.'" At the start of the session, we reviewed Madeleine's scores on the Brief Mood Survey (BMS). This indicated only minimal depression (5/20), with no suicidal urges or anger, but her anxiety was still extremely elevated (18/20). In addition, her Positive Feelings score was only 20 out of 40, with 0 meaning no positive feelings at all, and 40 being the highest possible feelings. However, her Relationship Satisfaction score with her husband was 25 out of 30, which indicates strong satisfaction, with just a little room for improvement. We will ask Madeleine to complete the BMS again, along with the EOTS, so we can see precisely what changed, and by how much, during the session. Our goal, of course, with TEAM CBT, is nearly always to cause a near-complete, or complete, elimination of symptoms during a single, extended therapy session. In addition, we want every patient to have a crystal clear understanding of how and why they got upset, along with how to use the tools that were the most helpful to them in the session. That way, they'll be armed to deal with future relapses, which are inevitable for all human beings. And here's the big point. Our goal in sharing this session with you is s

Past Projection vs. Memory Rescripting Why Can't I Lose Weight? Do Demons Cause Negative Thoughts! Featuring Our Beloved Dr. Matthew May The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Rhonda asks: What's the difference between Past Projection and Memory Rescripting? Slash asks: How do I overcome my resistance to losing weight? Constantina asks: Do negative thoughts come from demons? And here are the answers! Rhonda asks: What's the difference between Past Projection and Memory Rescripting? I would love to learn more about Memory Rescripting, since I really don't see much difference between that and Past Projection, but maybe I am just dense. So if we could talk about that on the next Ask David, that would be great. Thanks, Rhonda David's reply I use the term, Time Travel, and you can project yourself into the future or the past, hence Future or Past Projection. If you want a patient to travel into the past, there are a great many things you can do that might be helpful. You can do "Forgiveness Training," developed by Jaimie Galindo. Essentially, the patient talks to someone, like a parent, who abused them in some way, telling the parent how hurt they felt, and how they needed the parent's love. Or you can do Cognitive Flooding, simply "watching" some traumatic event to experience the anxiety until it wears out and loses its power to upset you. And there are many more techniques you can use to explore past experiences with a patient. Memory Rescripting is like Cognitive Flooding—you have the patient close their eyes and vividly re-experience something traumatic, like the babysitter abusing them. Then, at the height of the feelings of anxiety, anger, and helplessness, you can tell the patient that they can be like a movie director, and change the scene so there is a different outcome. For example, the patient may want to enter the scene as a powerful adult and punish the perpetrator. This is not some standard procedure, as every patient will be completely different. Often, they will want to do something violent to the perpetrator, so this procedure can be anxiety provoking for the therapist! I have only used it on a couple occasions, but had good results with it both times. I am not a strong believer that patients "must" go into the past to "work through" a prior traumatic experience, so I don't have that much need for it. But it is a good technique to have in your toolbox. Slash asks: How do I overcome my resistance to losing weight? Dear Dr. Burns, I recently listened to your podcast episode on Habits and Addictions, and it really resonated with me. I've been going to the gym regularly, but I'm struggling with my eating habits — I tend to eat too much, and my weight hasn't been decreasing. What I've realized is that I may be experiencing what you describe as outcome resistance. A part of me feels that if I lose weight and become thin and attractive, I might still not take action in areas like dating — so then I ask myself, "Why should I even bother with weight reduction?" I'm finding it difficult to overcome this resistance, even though I want to be healthier. Could you please share some guidance or strategies to work through this kind of resistance? Thank you for all the wonderful work you do. Your podcasts have been truly insightful and helpful. Warm regards, Slash David's reply Thanks, and we will discuss this important question on the podcast. However, in the meantime, if you can search for Triple Paradox you may find your answer. Also, you can download two free unpublished changers on habits and addictions from any page on feeling good.com, and use the Decision -Making, Tool. That, too, will give you the answer! Warmly, david Constantina asks: Do negative thoughts come from demons? David and Rhonda, Hello. I am doing some research into "spiritual" causes of depression. I realize that you are both scientists (and BRILLIANT ones), but if you have any sources I could review, I would appreciate suggestions. It might also make for an interesting Halloween season podcast. Do "demons" cause automatic negative thoughts. And if not demons, what actually causes them? Please don't dismiss this as "crazy". I am a very religious person and at times I have sincerely asked the question...are depression and anxiety ...at least in part, spiritual maladies. I have found tremendous help in Feeling Good, but also in prayer and religious practices. I want to research what has been done in terms of crossover studies/experiments (if any). Marianne David's reply Thank you. The spiritual underpinnings are not so much something to be researched, but can add a deeper dimension of meaning and understanding to the healing. Current thinking is that Self-Defeating Beliefs, not demons, trigger the negative thoughts. I have written about all of this extensively, so I won't try to say it all

Am I Helping People Who Are Suicidal? Should I Worry about My Daughter's Anxiety? Disarming Yourself The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter's anxiety? Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? Dear David, Please tell me if this is too close to medical or other protected advice, but I had a question about something I tell people who are sometimes struggling with suicidal ideation. Throughout my life, I have had the thought "I don't want to be alive anymore" more times than I can count. But what I have come to realize over time is that this is just something my brain says when I'm upset; it doesn't really mean anything other than that. It's just a reaction to being very upset and that reframing helps me feel better about it, knowing that it's not a conviction but rather just how my brain expresses negative distress. Multiple people have found this helpful, but I wonder if telling certain people this would be dismissive/triggering/etc. In a dangerous way? Do you think I should stop sharing this experience? George David's reply: Hi George, Thanks for asking. I will make this an Ask David question, if okay with you, using your first name or some other name if you prefer. Short answer: to me, this is like giving advice, to my way of thinking, and I have spent the last 40 – 50 years indicating that this is NOT an approach that's ever worked for me. Can say more on the podcast. Thanks! Warmly, david No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter's anxiety? Dear Dr. Burns, I am not very skilled at expressing how much you, Rhonda, the others and your work mean to me. So, I will just ask a question. My daughter, who has a lot of anxiety issues told me that when she has a problem, she will purposely stew over it when trying to fall asleep so that she will wake up with an answer to the problem the next morning. I cringed. Is there any way that this is a safe or helpful paradoxical technique? No name David's reply Thanks, I'll copy Rhonda. We are both grateful for your loving comments! Rhonda, we can make this an ask David if you like for a podcast. But short answer, at least, in my opinion, is that this is a cool way to use your brain. It is a skill. For example, I often get confused by a difficult statistics problem when analyzing data, and go to sleep confused. Nearly all the time, my brain wakes me up in the middle of the night with a brilliant answer. So, if she perceived is in a positive way, and isn't disturbed, you could try nourishing it, as opposed to worrying about it! We'll see what Rhonda thinks. Rhonda, I'll add this great brief question to our list for Tuesday. I am reluctant to postpone the Ask David as when we've done this in the past, we've ended up never answer at least 20 to 30 questions which are now too old to put on a podcast. Those who asked may no longer even be alive it's been so long! Warmly, david Rhonda's reply Thank you for this lovely feedback. It really means a lot to us. Your daughter is going through something so many of us experience. I am excited we can respond to your question on an Ask David podcast. Warmly, Rhonda Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? Subject: Question about using disarming technique on oneself, and also it being used against you. Endless gratitude to all of you for the pipeline of clarity and hope. I was wondering if one can use disarming on oneself. Much of the focus in feeling good seems focused on looking for and challenging our distortions, which seems the opposite of disarming. Maybe the reversal of agendas emphasized in feeling great is essentially putting the disarming back into the process in regards to ourselves. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. On a side note, if one is in a legal contention or divorce, I could see how disarming could be effective and pacifying, yet what if those admissions could be used against you. David's reply I would like to include this in an Ask David podcast, with our first name or a fake name. Please advise if okay. Short answer: the ideas and tools to treat individual mood problems, like depression, are the complete opposite of the ideas and tools to treat relationship problems. This is like matter and anti-matter. However, the Disarming Technique and the Acceptance Paradox connect these two opposed and radically different worlds. So, in a sense, you are right. The Acceptance Paradox is a lot like disarming yourself! Best, david Jeffry's reply to david Thank you for the succinct response, and I look forward to hearing it fleshed out in the podcast. I would be honored for you to mention my name: Jeffrey - from the outskirts of Jerusalem in Israel And thank you to the whole team for keeping the b

Ask David Why do I obsess? Why do I have to be perfect? How can I share my feelings without oversharing? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What's causing this? And what can I do? Yevhen asks: How can I use "I Feel" Statements without oversharing? But first, we start today's podcast with a comment from Susan, one of our podcast fans. She extends our discussion of whether friendship is more of a human "need" or a human "want." She describes her work with Dr. Daniel Herman, a Level 4 certified TEAM CBT therapist. Hi Rhonda, Matt, and David, First, I wanted to say I am so glad sweet Rhonda is feeling better. This is wonderful news! I have been a fan of Dr. Burns books for 10+ years and of the podcast for 3 years. I just finished listening to podcast #469 on friendship and felt compelled to share my story as it relates to Team CBT. Three years ago, my 23 year-old son entered a 90 day inpatient rehabilitation center for a marijuana addiction followed by 1 1/2 years in a sober living facility. Six months into his recovery, I reached out to Dr. Daniel Hermann, a Team CBT level 4 therapist. At that time, my son's progress had been steady yet I was still suffering greatly. One of many thoughts that contributed to my suffering was that my friends couldn't understand what I was going through. Although I have been fortunate to have had many wonderful friendships for 30+ years, Although I was open with my friends about my struggles, I generally didn't feel they understood what I was going through and I felt isolated. Fortunately, Dr. Herman did not try to convince me that I "needed" these friendships or to be understood to "get through" this difficult time. Instead, he helped me to look at the situation realistically, without distortions. My positive reframe regarding my friends was "I wish I could have felt closer to my friends during this difficult time. However, there are many ways in which I have supported myself and I have found other outside sources of comfort also." I made a very detailed list of the myriad of ways I had supported myself which brought me great comfort and empowerment. I was able to accept that I wasn't feeling as close to my friends as I would have liked, without blaming them or myself. I also let go of my belief that my friends "should" have been able to empathize better with what I was going through. I learned that although I truly value these friendships, if I expect them to mean everything to me in every situation, I will be setting myself up for a lot of suffering. I am so happy that sweet Rhonda had those strong friendships to help her during such a dark time. She is very fortunate! Since Rhonda had a change of heart during the podcast, the following comments are based on her beliefs at the beginning of the podcast: that the support of her friends is a need and that she could not have "gotten through" her treatments without it. Did Rhonda mean that she would have not sought cancer treatment, the treatments would have been ineffective, or that she would have ended her life without the support of her friends? Would she have told a client of hers in a similar situation that she needed to focus all her time and effort on developing meaningful friendships rather than treating her cancer because friendship was the true need? Obviously, I don't believe she would have and am glad that she had a change of heart regarding this belief. Thank you all for your wonderful podcasts! Susan The point I was trying to make is that Dr. Hermann himself did not appear to believe in these self-defeating beliefs, contrary to public opinion. This was essential to me coming to the same conclusions. (To be clear, he NEVER told me what to believe lol. I was paying him but I did all the work! Frustrating at times but coming to my own conclusions was the only way to internalize these messages.) Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What's causing this? And what can I do? Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind and prompt reply. I truly appreciate you taking the time to direct me to the additional resources on your website—I have found them and am already finding them very helpful. Please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in responding. The beginning of the new semester has kept me quite occupied, and I have only now found a moment to write to you properly. I am writing to you again because I have been struggling with some persistent challenges and was hoping I might ask for your guidance. Lately, I often find myself distracted by vivid, intrusive daydreams—I create elaborate imaginary stories or visualize worst-case scenarios, such as natural disasters. In addition, I have developed what feels like an obsessive need to keep my bo

Relapse and Relapse Prevention for Overeating Featuring Dr. Angela Krumm On today's podcast, we proudly feature an old friend, Dr. Angela Krumm, on the topic of relapse prevention for habits and addictions. This is certainly a top of incredible importance, since all treatments for all habits and addictions seem to have extremely high relapse rates. Anything we could do to reduce that would be a major contribution. Angela was on our Feeling Good Podcast #270 on Nov 29, 2021 describing some TEAM CBT methods she'd developed to deal with her own weight gain. In podcast #270 she taught listeners how to set process goals, instead of outcome focused goals. She then taught about the Triple Paradox, Habit Addiction Log, Devil's Advocate technique, and the Problem-Solution log. In that first episode she explained that this was a difficult time in her life: her father had died, and she'd also experienced a traumatic fall which caused a concussion. So she fell off being careful about her diet, and one day was shocked that she could not recognize herself—due to weight gain--in a photo, and was on the fast track to Type II Diabetes. As a result, she utilized many of the TEAM CBT techniques and slowly, but surely, lost weight and kept it off for multiple years. She explains that she was "solid for a long time, but have to confess, with shame, that I eventually relapsed because I got over-confident. I'd been tracking what I ate, which was an important key for me, and stopped keeping up with it consistently, thinking I didn't really need to anymore." We reviewed the kinds of tempting thoughts she'd had (and still has, of course, at times), when she feels tempted by her favorites: things like delicious brownies, red wine, and other sweet treats. She has tempting thoughts such as: I deserve to take a break from tracking what I eat. I deserve a treat—I've had a hard day. It's silly to be so rigid. I deserve to eat whatever I want. Spontaneity is one of my core values! During the podcast, we illustrated the Devil's Advocate Technique (DAT), which is powerful and a lot of fun, but sometimes trickier than it looks. When Angela gave a "good" but not "huge" response to one of these tempting thoughts, I automatically suggested a role-reversal. Rhonda immediately and rightly reminded us that we never do role-reversals when people are stuck during the Devil's Advocate. Instead, we paradox the person and sit with open hands. Rhonda modeled this beautifully and it worked like a charm. Angela had a sudden about face and blew the tempting thought out of the water immediately. We made three teaching points on DAT. Don't give in to the urge to "help." This will have the opposite effect of keeping the patient stuck. Realize that if you're a therapist, and your patient cannot convincingly defeat all the temping thoughts in the office, the likelihood that they can defeat them when they're at home is 0%. So, the DAT is both a powerful technique to boost motivation with tools you can use when tempted, but it is also a powerful test of motivation. Remember to Sit with Open Hands if your patients cannot convincingly defeat their tempting thoughts. Angela shared that she now realizes that the main reason for her relapse was that she had skipped relapse prevention. This is the danger of being your own therapist, sometimes you make the mistake of cutting corners or getting overly confident. She asked to return to the podcast today to talk about that important mistake and help others prevent that mistake in the future. She wants us to emphasize the important of Relapse Prevention for all habits and addictions. When Angela mentioned that she'd relapsed in her eating to a therapist who was just learning TEAM-CBT, the therapist seemed shocked and asked, "Oh, does this mean that the techniques we're learning don't actually work?" This is such a great (but naïve and common) question, because we always emphasize that all patients—in fact all human beings—will relapse after recovery from depression, anxiety, a relationship conflict, or a habit / addiction. That's why it's so important to tell patients about relapse before discharge from therapy, and do a brief but intensive relapse prevention intervention. We reviewed several of the Relapse Prevention techniques, including the Problem Solution List and the Relapse Prevention Daily Mood Log, using and recording the Externalization of Voices. When you do this step with a patient, ask them to imagine the future moment in time when they have relapsed. It's important to capture the thoughts that will lead them to give up and quit using the techniques. Often, these are hopeless thoughts about the usefulness of the techniques or their ability to remain in recovery. If these thoughts are left unchecked, they will spiral the person into a deeper and more lengthy relapse. If they can predict the thoughts ahead of time and generate powerful rebuttals to use in that moment, then their first moment of relapse can be turn

Most of us think we're great communicators… but the truth is, we often aren't. At the free webinar on Wednesday, December 3 from 11 to 1 PT, you'll learn some tremendous new skills that will blow your mind. They'll also transform your relationships with the people you care about! Sign up now at FeelingGoodWebinar.com. It's for EVERYBODY! Shrinks and the general public alike are warmly welcomed. Therapists can purchase two CE credits if you attend the live event. See you there!

COMING UP IN JANUARY: Fast Track to LEVEL 3 TEAM CBT Certification Howdy! If you're a therapist looking to strengthen your TEAM CBT skills and earn continuing education credit, here's an exceptional opportunity coming up in January 2026. Feeling Good Institute's Fast Track to Level 3 TEAM CBT Certification Starts January 16, 2026 • 25 weeks • 46 CEs Special Offer for Podcast Listeners: Use discount code FRIEND50 for a course price of $595.* Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com. This hybrid course combines: • Live weekly practice groups • Self-paced video training featuring Dr. David Burns & Dr. Jill Levitt • Deliberate Practice exercises such as Externalization of Voices and the Double Standard Technique • FREE Therapist Toolkit ($199 value) • Certification exam fees included *Early-Career Clinicians: If you're an Associate or Postdoc in the USA or Canada, use code EarlyCareer2026 and get the course for just $195 plus exam fee. Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com. If you want to level up your therapy skills for the rest of your career, this may be the ideal time.

David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 2 of 2 Today, you will hear part 2 of the Webinar that Dr. Jill Levitt and I did on September 11th on TEAM CBT and powerful exposure techniques for anxiety disorders. Jill's fantastic teaching includes the importance of recognizing the "Safety Behaviors" that sabotage effective exposure therapy. You will hear the dramatic story of a woman who recovered from more than 20 years of OCD / germ phobia in less than one minute while attending David's free weekly psychotherapy seminar at Stanford. You will also learn about "Memory Rescripting," and how it suddenly changed the life of a veteran who'd lost the capacity to feel human feelings following a traumatic experience in Vietnam 25 years earlier. Thanks for listening. Please let us know if you want future webinars presenting as podcasts. We will also publish them in their entirety on our YouTube Feeling Great channel, so the additional publication on a podcast may be overkill. Let us know! Warmly, Rhonda, Jill, and David

David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 1 of 2 Today, you will hear part 1 of the Webinar that Dr. Jill Levitt and I did on September 11th of the fine points of exposure techniques for anxiety disorders. More than 2,000 individuals (mainly therapists, but many general public as well) registered for this event. It was super well received, thanks in large part to Jill's super awesome teaching skills! I feel so lucky every time we teach together. In part 1 today, you will hear about an overview of TEAM CBT, as well as the four treatment models we use with every person who is struggling with anxiety: The Motivational Model The Cognitive Model The Exposure Model The Hidden Emotion Model You will also see a dramatic example of the use of a powerful cognitive technique (the Experimental Technique) with Terri, a woman who'd struggled for ten years with extreme panic attacks and depression. You will see the exact moment of recovery, when her uncontrollable sobbing suddenly turned into uncontrollable laughter, joy, and relief. This may be the most dramatic psychotherapy example ever recorded. Although this podcast of the webinar is in audio only, you can also SEE this dramatic segment on YouTube at LINK to TERRI VIDEO Next week you will hear part 2 of that webinar, with Jill's fantastic teaching on the fine points of exposure, including the importance of recognizing the "Safety Behaviors" that sabotage effective treatment. You will hear the dramatic story of a woman who recovered from more than 20 years of OCD / germ phobia in less than one minute while attending David's free weekly psychotherapy seminar at Stanford. You will also learn about "Memory Rescripting," and how it suddenly changed the life of a veteran who'd lost the capacity to feel human feelings following a traumatic experience in Vietnam 25 years earlier. Thanks for listening. Please let us know if you want future webinars presenting as podcasts. We will also publish them in their entirety on our YouTube Feeling Great channel, so the additional publication on a podcast may be overkill. Let us know! Warmly, Rhonda, Jill, and David

Ask David Are You Getting Old and Cranky Now? TEAM CBT and Spirituality The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Jenn asks: Are you getting old and cranky now? Jenn also asks: How did you get involved with / develop the spiritual and enlightenment aspect of TEAM? Dear Dr. Burns, Let me start by saying thank you for all of your hard work and diligence in creating a method which is so user friendly. Completing the book, When Panic Attacks, changed my life and helped me reach enlightenment. My Ask David question is inspired by the last few podcasts, the live session with Rhonda and the live session with Madelaine which David just did with Jill. David has clearly worked so hard to create TEAM and has dedicated so much time to perfect it. I was lucky enough to have been introduced to the podcast when it first started. Some of my favorite episodes to listen to are the live therapy sessions. I've gained insight and felt heard through many of these such as when David told Lee how lonely enlightenment can be because I agree with that! Recently I have noticed that David's demeanor has changed and was hoping to ask about it. I can imagine David might feel lonely in his expertise sometimes. I might be on the wrong track here too but I wonder if David might be feeling frustrated with the lack of understanding from people around him. He has been dedicating his life to this and still people do not understand certain aspects of his research and teaching. On recent podcasts, David had mentioned that he gets more irritated with teaching now too and it has seemed like he is irritated with Rhonda at points. He has mentioned that he feels disappointed if he doesn't see change in 2 hour sessions. Recently I watched a live session with Madelaine and some of the techniques (for example, calling her negative self sociopath during counter attack) did not seem to land or resonate with her and that wasn't addressed with David's usual love and tenderness and warmth with empathy. It seemed rushed and not necessarily focused on the patient outcome but the timeline. I did not find it to be David's usual work of patience and warmth. I could be completely off the rails but I am wondering if this is resonating with David and if he could share more about what it's been like for him recently. I also am wondering if it is difficult to navigate being seen as "a great leader" in a field. Do people see you as "David" simply a dedicated expert in your field or do people treat you like a "God" that has all the answers? I can imagine people would want help from you 24/7 and if you could speak to that. I am hoping David can look at some of those thoughts and comments he's made on the podcasts and become the client for us listeners! I would love for David to show us how to experience TEAM from the client's perspective for all to hear. I have used TEAM-CBT for 10 years and recently started the Fast Track Program which I am very excited for! Thank you again for this truly amazing process! Jenn David's reply Thanks, Jenn, You are right, I DO feel quite a bit of irritation with our field and can identify a bit with Martin Luther, who nailed his treatise / ideas on someone's door hundreds of years ago, and also Jesus who angrily threw the money changers out of the temple a couple thousand years ago. I know that sounds narcissistic, but that's how I feel sometimes. My frustration has several dimensions: The field, to my way of thinking, is incredibly screwed up and anti-scientific, divided into irrational cults called "schools" of therapy. Nobody seems to notice this "elephant" in our room! Hey, are you all sleeping? Did you learn critical thinking in college? When challenged by research that seriously questions the validity and effectiveness of current psychotherapies for depression and anxiety, for example, no one seems to care or notice. It seems like wrong theories die hard. People do not like being criticized and got angry when I criticize the field of psychotherapy. So, there is a kind of a "let's be politically correct" and be super "nice" to everyone, so as not to stir them up or hurt their feelings. There is a potential for massive change and improvements in psychotherapy and psychiatric treatment, but it would require a revolution and the acceptance of totally new approaches which would threaten many therapists' thinking and survival at a very basic level. Are you or others interested in my thinking? Let me know. If so, more later, maybe on a podcast or two with Jill and Matt, and of course, Rhonda. And here are the answers to some of your other questions. You say, "He has mentioned that he feels disappointed if he doesn't see change in 2 hour sessions." We're not on the same page here. I nearly always see dramatic change in 2 hour sessions, and I'm dramatic that I have created a therapeutic approach that makes this possible. When I was a yo

Dr. David Burns and Jill Levitt will teach you seven jaw-dropping techniques to end feelings of shyness and social anxiety. For shrinks AND for the general public. If you're hurting, or you have patients who are hurting, we want you to join us! It's 100% free. Therapists even get two FREE CE credits if you attend the live event. Sign up now at CBTforSocialAnxiety.com. This event could change your life. It's Wednesday, November 5th, 2025, from 11 AM to 1 PM Pacific Coast Time. Be THERE!