Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

Hello! Dr. Jill Levitt and I have an amazing full-day CE workshop on changing core beliefs coming up in a few weeks. If you've ever struggled with Perfectionism, Perceived Perfectionism, or the Love, Achievement, or Approval Addictions, you're going to love this all-new workshop called The Deeper Dimension in CBT. Sign up now at CBT-Workshop.com. 📅 Friday, April 24, 2026 🕛 8:30 AM – 4:30 PM PT CE Workshop for Therapists $195 Register Here: CBT-Workshop.com This workshop will include new teaching and treatment techniques, and we'll go much further than any previous presentations on Core Beliefs. Learning therapy is much like learning to ride a bicycle. You've got to get on and ride. Book learning won't help. That's why you'll work through your own Self-Defeating Beliefs during this highly interactive workshop. As you change, the tools for helping your clients will become crystal clear. We'll also answer the question: where do you go next once you decide to give up your Self-Defeating Beliefs? You'll walk away from this amazing workshop with concrete, easy-to-use tools you can apply in your very next therapy session and in your life as well. You'll also experience a profound and exciting shift in your personal philosophy.

#495 Stop Helping! Here's How. Featuring Thai-An Truong on Codependency Thai-An Truong, LPC, LADC is a Certified TEAM-CBT Trainer, Level 5 and loves sharing tools and processes to help other therapists feel more confident, effective, and joyful in their work with their clients. In her private practice in Oklahoma, she is passionate about helping people heal from past trauma and OCD. She also has a special interest in helping her clients improve their relationships and overall connection with their partners and loved ones. We often hear the word, co-dependency thrown around. Today's podcast will be unique: you'll hear a totally brilliant and lucid explanation of how to treat it within the TEAM CBT model. It will be explained and illustrated with role-playing demonstrations by Rhonda and Thai-An. These demonstrations are fantastic! You'll love them! But let's start with what codependency is. I'll give you my take on it first, as my understanding has been based on observation. I see it as the compulsive urge to help another person who appears to be hurting or struggling. Well, that's nothing wrong with that, for sure! But where it gets yucky is where there is an ongoing pattern of helping, followed by stuckness on the part of the person who is hurting, ending up with both parties feeling frustrated and angry. We've talked about this general topic a great deal on the show, and in fact, TEAM CBT emerged as a radical alternative to the compulsive, codependent "helping" we often see in the community of mental health professionals. And we've seen this too, among parents and their children. Rhonda and I have done many podcasts on the topic of "How to Help and How NOT to Help," (for example, #164: https://feelinggood.com/2019/10/28/164-how-to-help-and-how-not-to-help/). And we've done many, including a great recent podcast with Dr. Taylor Chesney, on how parents can talk to teens and children without trying to control or scold them—by forming a warm and respectful relationship, using the Five Secrets. According to a Google search, codependency involves "excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, often characterized by neglecting one's own needs. The four main types of codependency are the Caretaker, Enabler, Controller, and Adjuster. These roles represent different ways individuals, often with low self-esteem, sacrifice their well-being to manage relationships." To get things started, Rhonda and Thai-An discuss he various definitions and meanings of co-dependency. Thai-An described an attractive woman she treated who ended up with an alcoholic man who gave her very little in terms of healthy emotional support or love. But she told herself, "He's the only one who's there for me. , , I won't be able to find anyone else." There's also a strong dimension of "I NEED to fix this person," as opposed to asking if they need help, and deciding whether you can actually meet their need. They also pointed out, with example, that "throwing help at people" (as I call it) actually forces them to resist. They talked about the shame involved in codependency, and then illustrated Option B: TEAM -CBT, where empathy is always a crucially important first step. Then you can move to the Triple Paradox, to help the codependent patient illuminate three crucial motivational pieces: Column 1: The positive rewards of trying to "help" this person. Column 2: The downside of changing and giving up this pattern. Column 3: What your codependency shows about you and your core values as a human being that's positive and awesome. Then after listing 20 to 30 or more powerful reasons to continue acting in a codependent manner, you can ask them if it's working for them, or if they can think of any reasons to change. So, right away, you are modeling a totally anti-codependent way of "helping" your codependent patient. Only then, if the patient can convince you that they really do want help, Thai-An and Rhonda modeled some kick-ass M = Methods that can be incredibly helpful, including, but not at all limited to: The co-dependency Double Standard Technique. The role play with Rhonda and Thai-An was eye-opening and jaw-dropping! The Devil's Advocate Technique when tempted to "help." The Decision-Making Tool The Externalization of Voices And many more. I want to thank you, Thai-An, and you, Rhonda, for a truly phenomenal podcast today. Awesome work! From Rhonda: Speaking for me and Thai-An, it was our pleasure and honor to be on the podcast with you David! And always a pleasure to learn with the brilliant Thai-An, one of the most phenomenal teachers and trainers in the TEAM community.

What if the old techniques don't work now? What can I do if I'm boring on dating apps? How do I balance TEAM CBT with Life? Do relapses come from out of the blue? Carlos continues with his question(s) first addressed on last week's podcast. He'd recovered from depression using TEAM CBT, but had a question about how to challenge his negative thoughts during a relapse, as well as how to balance TEAM CBT with life. Plus a dating question from a man who's never had a date! Today's questions begin here. Should I use a brand-new CBT technique to help me overcome my current negative thoughts? I've been using my previous solutions (Exposure Therapy and Daily Mood Log) however, they don't seem to help out as much as they used to. How do I balance Team CBT and life? I've been having a difficult time finding the right balance between Therapy and Life. Whenever I strictly do therapy, I feel good, but then feel sad that I sacrifice other activities in order to do the therapy. Inversely, whenever I do activities (while only occasionally doing therapy), I feel conned by my anxiety and feel as if I can't enjoy doing my activities. Can you relapse despite having no apparent issues in life? I'm currently on Christmas break, without much pressure to find a job. Yet despite this, I'm feeling more anxious right now than I was in university! How is this possible? Is there perhaps a hidden emotion or desire that I'm not expressing? Regardless of how negative I feel right now, I'm doing my absolute best to stay positive and keep working on myself with Team CBT. I'm looking forward to resolving my anxiety with the help of your awesome tools! It was an honor speaking with you, thank you for reading! -Carlos David's Answer Great question, and I'll give you a (hopefully) great answer on the podcast! But here's the quickie answer. Focus on one specific moment when you'd like to be feeling happier, or when you need help to become the person you want to be. Then use a Daily Mood Log, Habit / Addiction Log (HAL), or Relationship Journal, depending on what's needed. This is the exact same fractal concept we use in all of TEAM CBT! Warmly, david I am overly sincere and boring on dating apps. What can I do to correct this? Michael writes: Hi Dr burns I am 30 and never dated anyone. Whenever I start chatting on dating apps I seem very boring or sincere person how can I talk to someone in this? Regards, Michael (disguised name)

What can I do if I relapse? Good Morning Dr. Burns, I will make this email quick, as I'm sure you have several other emails to read through. First off, thank you so much for your research and contributions to TEAM CBT! My mother introduced me to this form of therapy in 2022, and it has been a big help in overcoming my extremely painful perfectionism anxiety. Unfortunately, after graduating from university, I've begun relapsing once again. As such, I would like to ask a few things Carlos: (His remaining questions will be answered on Podcast 494.) Is it harder to get out of a relapse than the first time? I feel as if my relapse has been a lot trickier to get out of, despite the fact I have more tools and techniques. David's response. This depends entirely on whether you've done Relapse Prevention Training to prepare for relapses ahead of time. You can read all about it in the last chapter of my most recent book, Feeling Great. You can also learn about RPT on a number of podcasts, and even hear me doing it live with many individuals at the end of their personal work. Here are two examples randomly chosen among dozens I have published. 427: https://feelinggood.com/2024/12/16/426-ask-david-dreading-the-day-solving-mother-daughter-problems-romance-and-more/ 389: https://feelinggood.com/2024/03/25/389-the-story-of-amy-part-2-of-2/ And you'll a great many more if you look. Just use the search function on my website and you'll find a wealth of podcasts on RPT. Short answer: If you HAVE recovered and done RPT (takes 30 minutes) it will usually be much easier for you to smash your negative thought(s), using the same methods that helped you the first time. If you HAVEN'T recovered and done RPT, it may be much more challenging. Thanks for the important question, Carlos!

Download the incredible Feeling Great app today for FREE at FeelingGreat.com! This is my $99 GIFT for you. - Dr. David Burns

Meet the Fantastic—and Controversial—Dr. David Healy Psychiatric Drug Companies-- What Are They NOT Telling Us? Today, we are thrilled to interview the famed and courageous Dr. David Healy. I have admired his work for many years, but never imagined I'd have the chance to meet him and chat with him. First things first. You may know Dr. David Healy for some of his highly controversial books, like "The Antidepressant Era," "Let Them Eat Prozac," and "Pharmageddon." But who is he, really? According to AI, Dr. David Healy is a prominent Welsh psychiatrist, psychopharmacologist, and critic of the pharmaceutical industry known for his research on antidepressants, their links to suicide, and exposing industry practices like ghostwriting and disease-mongering, operating through initiatives like RxISK.org to promote drug safety. He has a long history of challenging Big Pharma, facing academic backlash (like losing a University of Toronto post) for his views, and serving as an expert witness in legal cases involving psychotropic drugs, advocating for greater transparency and patient safety. Healy initially worked with pharmaceutical companies, gaining firsthand knowledge of how SSRIs were marketed despite their trial weaknesses, focusing on the oversimplified serotonin hypothesis. He then became a vocal critic, highlighting issues like ghostwriting articles and manipulating academic opinion to sell drugs, leading to conflicts with industry-funded institutions. He founded RxISK.org, a platform for patients to report adverse drug reactions, aiming to make medicines safer. His strong stance (on research linking SSRI antidepressants to increased suicidal thoughts and urges) led to intense and corrosive controversy, including losing a professorship at the University of Toronto (though later settled as a visiting role) and harassment, noted here and here. In recent years, he has acted as an expert witness in cases involving drug-related suicides and homicides, bringing issues to regulators. In essence, Dr. David Healy is a significant, often controversial, figure dedicated to drug safety, academic integrity, and patient awareness in psychiatry, challenging established narratives and industry power. Taking a deeper dive, AI has added this critically important information: David Healy has discussed numerous examples of conflicts of interest that mainly involve the influence of the pharmaceutical industry on medical research, publication, and practice. Key examples he has highlighted include: Ghostwriting of Articles: Pharmaceutical companies hire medical communication firms to draft research articles or reviews, and then get prominent academics or clinicians to put their names on the papers as the sole or primary authors, a practice known as ghostwriting. The named authors often have little to no involvement in the actual research or writing. Hiding or Misrepresenting Data: Drug companies have concealed unfavorable data or miscoded raw data on drug risks, such as the link between antidepressants and suicidal acts. This manipulation can make a drug appear safer or more effective than it actually is. Biased Clinical Trial Design: Healy notes instances where clinical trials are designed with "tricks," such as using inadequate or excessive doses of comparison medications to make the company's own drug look superior. Marketing-Driven Education: A large portion of continuing medical education (CME) classes for doctors are sponsored by industry. Healy argues this leads to a bias in the information presented to doctors, with an emphasis on the benefits of brand-name drugs rather than an objective assessment of all treatment options. Gifts and Payments to Physicians: Drug companies spend billions annually on marketing directed at doctors, including free samples, sales visits, and small non-educational gifts or lunches. Healy points out that while many doctors believe these gifts don't affect their own prescribing, studies show they influence prescribing patterns and create subtle biases. Industry Influence on Academia: Healy's own experience with a job offer being rescinded at the University of Toronto, which had received a large donation from a drug company (Eli Lilly), is a prominent case he uses to illustrate how industry funding can infringe upon academic freedom and stifle critical research. "Disease Mongering": Healy argues that the pharmaceutical industry often engages in "disease mongering," marketing conditions to the public and physicians to create a market for their products rather than simply addressing genuine medical needs. So that hopefully gives you some idea of the scope of his work, and his vision of transparency and integrity in the reporting one the effectiveness and risks of psychotropic medications. In our conversation today, he emphasized the importance of listening to patients who describe side effects of medications, such as SSRIs, in described the efforts of Big Pharma to suppress such complaints, giving psyc

Ask David, #491, featuring our beloved Dr. Matthew May. Can Introverts be helped? How can we enhance our happiness? What's the best movie to watch if your father rejected you? How can I identify my feelings? The answers to the first two questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today's Questions Anonymous asks: Can an introvert become more extroverted? Or are these personality traits "fixed" and unchanging? Seve asks: I know that TEAM can be super helpful for negative thoughts and feelings, but what are the best tools to enhance happiness and become the person we want to be? I have a patient whose father rejected her when she was young. What would be a good movie that I could recommend for her? Anonymous asks: I don't know how to identify my feelings. Can you help? Today's Answers Question #1 Anonymous asks: Can an introvert become more extroverted? Or are these personality traits "fixed" and unchanging? Dear Dr. Burns, I hope this message finds you well. I would like to ask you a question regarding personality traits. Some articles suggest that introversion and extraversion are relatively stable characteristics—meaning that an introverted person cannot truly become more extroverted, and vice versa (or at least not to a great extent). They also propose that introverts tend to lose energy in social situations and recharge when alone, whereas extroverts gain energy from social interaction. I'm very curious to know your thoughts on this topic. Do you believe an introverted person can become more extroverted? And in your view, is an introvert's need for solitude more of a true "need" or a "want"? Thank you very much for your time and for the inspiration your work has provided to so many of us. Warm regards, Anonymous David's reply If you like, I can make this an Ask David question for an upcoming podcast! It's a cool question and raises many questions: Do "personalities" even "exist?" Is this like the question, "Do we have a self?" It also focuses on the issue of whether we can change and grow, or whether there is some invisible barrier beyond which we can grow any further, due to some inherent "limit" due to our "personality type." Best, david Question #2 Dr. Dear David: I know first-hand how helpful TEAM CBT can be to address negative thoughts and emotions but our path to a happier life and to the person we want to be never really ends. Are there any other tools that Dr. David may have come across and can suggest for someone's growth? Thank you, Steve David's Answer Great question, and I'll give you a (hopefully) great answer on the podcast! But here's the quickie answer. Focus on one specific moment when you'd like to be feeling happier, or when you need help on become the person you want to be, and then use a Daily Mood Log, Habit / Addiction Log (HAL), or Relationship Journal, depending on what's needed. This is the exact same fractal concept we use in all of TEAM CBT! Warmly, david Question #3 Hi podcast crew: I have a patient whose father rejected her when she was young. What would be a really good movie to recommend do her? David's Answer Sadly, I lost my notes from this podcast, but in general David and Matt found this question somewhat offensive, as it suggests you can chase a problem (father rejected me) with a method, in this case recommending a good movie. We, instead, would recommend TEAM CBT, which is real therapy, and not gimmicks. Movies can be rewarding, but that's not the same as effective therapy! Rhonda asked David and Matt what was wrong with recommending a movie in the same way we recommend books for clients to read. Have a listen to hear their response. Question #4 Anonymous asks: I don't know how to identify my feelings. Can you help? David's Answer Rhonda said one of her clients could not identify their feelings, unless they have the Feelings Chart in front of them. David thought that anyone could identify their feelings and explained. One simple way is to identify a specific moment when you were upset and wanting help. Think about what was going on, who wee you with, where were you, etc. Then review the Feeling Words charts, which I will link to, to see how many, and which ones, resonate with how you were feeling at that time, or how you may still be feeling. Feeling Words Chart with Five Secrets, v 2 Another way is to draw a Stick Figure of yourself, and put a bubble above its head. Then imagine the Stick Figure is upset and put the Stick Figure's negative thoughts and feelings in the bubble. They don't have to be your feelings and thoughts, just make some up. Do it now—on paper! DON'T just think about it. That never works! Have you done it yet? No? That's what I suspected. If you ever DO want the answer to your question, so the stick figure on paper and then write me back. Thanks! Finally, you can listen to the podcast on "I Feel" Statements, and spend one week telling five people a day how you feel

Sexting, Bullying, and Social Media-- A Compassionate, Practical Guide for Parents of Teens Today, we welcome back one of our favorite guests, Taylor Chesney, director of the Feeling Good Institute in New York City. Taylor specializes in TEAM-CBT with children and adolescents and brings a rare combination of clinical expertise and real-life wisdom as the mother of four. Parents everywhere are worried about social media, sexting, porn, bullying, and the fear that their kids are doing "who knows what" behind closed doors. In this episode, Taylor offers a refreshing and deeply practical message: the solution isn't better apps, stricter rules, or surveillance—it's connection. Why Blaming Technology Misses the Point Teen brains are still developing. They're impulsive, thrill-seeking, and wired for belonging and validation. Give teens instant access to peers and social media, and mistakes are inevitable. Taylor emphasizes that technology itself isn't good or bad—it amplifies what's already happening in a teen's emotional world. The real question isn't how to eliminate technology, but how parents can guide kids in using it safely and thoughtfully. The Real Protective Factor: Communication Parents often ask, "What app should I install?" or "How do I stop this?" Taylor suggests these questions lead to dead ends. What truly protects teens is a relationship where they feel: understood rather than judged supported rather than interrogated safe coming to parents after a mistake As Taylor explains, for most teens it's not if they'll face a difficult online situation—it's when. The goal is to make sure they come to you when it happens. How to Talk So Teens Will Open Up Using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, especially the Disarming Technique, parents can shift from policing to coaching. Instead of: "Why were you on your phone?" Try: "Help me understand what was going on for you." This approach reduces secrecy and increases trust. Porn, Sexting, and Shame Discovering porn or sexting can trigger panic and anger in parents—but shaming almost always backfires. Taylor suggests responding with curiosity and empathy: "What was that like for you?" "What do you understand about the difference between porn and real intimacy?" Sexting often begins innocently—seeking connection, validation, or closeness—but once an image is sent, control is lost. Open conversations help teens think ahead without feeling judged or controlled. Parents can also teach teens simple, self-respecting responses like: "I care about you, but I don't need to send that to prove it." Bullying and Online Drama Online bullying mirrors real-life dynamics—but faster, more public, and more permanent. Taylor shares concrete skills teens can use: Pause before responding Don't engage when emotions are high Exit or mute toxic chats Involve an adult early Helpful phrases teens can practice include: "This chat is getting mean—I'm stepping out." "I'm not comfortable with this." "Let's take a break." The Big Takeaway Mistakes—by teens and parents—are inevitable. The real danger isn't errors; it's secrecy. When kids know they can come to their parents without fear of shame or punishment, they make better decisions and recover more quickly when things go wrong. As Taylor puts it: "The kids with the best relationships with their parents make the best decisions." Thanks for listening, and heartfelt thanks to Taylor for this wise, compassionate, and deeply reassuring conversation. — David, Rhonda, and Taylor

Download the amazing Feeling Great app today for FREE at FeelingGreat.com! This is my $99 GIFT for you. – Dr. David Burns

Meet Richard Lam-- Master TEAM CBT Teacher and Therapist! Today we chat with Richard Lam. Richard is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in private practice in Mountain View, California. He is a graduate of Palo Alto University. He currently provides short-term therapy for anxiety, OCD, habits/addictions, depression, and relationship concerns using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Richard also trains other therapists in David Burn's model of CBT called TEAM-CBT Therapy. He is a certified Level 5 Master Therapist and Trainer in TEAM-CBT Therapy. And today, Richard has gifts for you! They are fantastic! See below! I began by asking Richard how he got interested in teaching. When he was first learning, he was tutored by Dr. Angela Krumm, an advanced TEAM CBT practitioner and one of the three founders of the Feeling Good Institute. He was loving the training, but one day she said, "That's all I can teach you. Now you have to start teaching!" And that started the wagon rolling down the hill. Richard is particularly interested in developing free self-help tools for patients, but also runs a special training class for TEAM CBT therapists who themselves want to become trainers. It meets in-person at the FGI office on Mondays from 12 to 2 PM. If interested, contact Richard (contact information is at bottom of show notes.) Richard is one of our most articulate TEAM CBT teachers, and is renown for some of his live demonstrations of specific techniques, like Forced Empathy. He has created a series of multi-page interactive teaching guides for a variety of techniques, so you can learn exactly how to do the Double Standard Technique, or the Externalization of Voices in a simple, clear, step-ty-step manner. Here are links to several examples. Check them out and feel free to share them with your patients if you are a TEAM therapist. These links are all kick ass! Check them out and do the exercises. You'll be glad you did! Link to Double Standard Technique Link to Externalization of Voices Link to Externalization of Resistance Link to I Feel Statements, Part 1 Link to I Feel Statements, Part 2 Link to Feared Fantasy Link to Forced Empathy Link to Forced Empathy Handout Link to Future Projection, for Habits Link to Paradoxical Ultimatum Richard tells us that mental health works a lot like physical health. When we don't regularly care for our bodies, things start to deteriorate and the same is true for our minds. These tools give you a way to keep nurturing your mental health so you can maintain a strong, healthy mind. Richard and I also discussed Acceptance--one of the most difficult concepts for patients and therapists alike to "get." I was delighted to learn he has a five-point plan to help people grasp this concept. Richard's Five Steps to Acceptance 1. The Win-Win Principle: How can I see this loss as a win? In high school, Richard had a patient whose heart was set on making the varsity basketball team, and was heartbroken when he only made the junior varsity team. But then he got to thinking that it would be fun to be the start on the JV team because his best friend is also going to be in JV. He relaxed and started to enjoy his practices with the team. And He was promptly promoted to the varsity team! 2. Remember the butterfly effect! Richard described getting angry and frustrated when he was late for an important appointment, and the car in front of him was moving slowly and caused a delay at a red light. His first impulse was to get angry and insist it SHOULDN'T have happened. But then, in reflection, he thought: "Wait a minute. This delay will change the entire trajectory of the rest of my life. And who knows, this could have save my life from some future tragedy if the trajectory of my life had been on time." 3, Growth mindset I have always thought of this important idea in simple terms. There is really no such "thing," from a Buddhist perspective, as "success" or "failure." These are just experiences. But often things do not turn out as one hoped. Instead of caving in, giving up, or feeling depressed or frustrated, although those are perfectly reasonable human experiences, you can accept your failure and view it as an opportunity for growth and learning. Our 9 month old grandson has reminded me that when we are learning to walk, we "fail" constantly, falling over, etc. But these are steps in learning that eventually culminates in the ability to walk--which is a miracle! 4. The spiritual view Acceptance can be thought of as letting go of judgement. Richard treated a woman who was angry at God because she could not have children, and she had always dreamed of having a big family. But from a medical perspective, her anger and constant agitation were actually the main reason she couldn't get pregnant. Shen she began working on reducing her anger using TEAM CBT, she was able to relax, and accept her fate with greater in peace. And then she suddenly got pregnant! I, David, have seen this on many occasions. Check out Po

Let's face it. We ALL procrastinate. Attempts to "help" nearly always backfire. Dr. David Burns gets it. Procrastinators don't want help — they want something that actually works. In his upcoming free webinar on February 25, Dr. Burns introduces his paradoxical approach and ten powerful TEAM CBT tools that deliver results. Sign up now at FeelingGoodWebinar.com. Everyone is welcome! Therapists can purchase two CE credits if they attend the live event. See you there!

(featured photo shows David, his wife Yvonne, and son, Joey, when young) Meet the Incredible Dr. David Antonuccio, Part 2 of 2 Shrink, Songwriter, and Hero Today we continue our conversation with my dear friend and esteemed colleague, Dr. David Antonuccio, a true scholar, clinician, researcher, musician, and champion of scientific transparency. The Nicotine Patch Study David revisited his landmark research on the nicotine patch, a costly trial involving roughly 600 participants who were randomly assigned to receive either a real nicotine patch or a sham patch. The goals were to assess safety and efficacy. The safety data looked reassuring. However, the efficacy findings were unexpected: the placebo patch worked just as well as the active nicotine patch in reducing smoking. The sponsoring company published the safety data but refused to publish—and refused David access to—the efficacy findings, which showed no advantage for the nicotine patch. You can check the link to the NEJM article here. David writes: "Notice the 48 week follow-up data were excluded in this paper despite the fact that they were available. That really annoyed me. I also now believe that the original version of the paper was ghostwritten and ghost analyzed by the industry folks.in other words. I'm not sure that the authors ever had access to the "raw" data before they were analyzed." This was important because there was a decrease in smoking DURING the study among those wearing the patch, and getting their "fix" of nicotine that way. . . but what happened AFTER the study? David writes: "Here is the link to the follow up paper that emphasized efficacy and included the 48 week follow-up data." Notice that this paper was not published until three years later, when the Nicotine Patch had already been heavily advertised and sold on the market. This early experience in his career revealed the tension between marketing interests which focus on sales, and scientific interests which focus on truth and transparency—a daunting and frustrating pattern that would emerge again and again in his career. Expert Testimony in a Tragic Criminal Case David then described expert testimony he provided in a deeply troubling legal case. A 72-year-old woman, happily married for 50 years and a respected kindergarten teacher, had recently been prescribed Paxil, along with Ambien and Ativan. She abruptly, and without memory, woke up in the middle of the night and stabbed her husband 200 times and was subsequently arrested for homicide. There was no jury trial; instead, a plea bargain was used to determine sentencing. Dr. David Antonuccio was called as an expert witness in her defense. He described Dr. David Healy's research documenting a significant increase in both suicidal and violent urges among some patients taking SSRIs, especially Paxil. He argued that this woman's bizarre behavior was consistent with a drug-induced dissociative or fugue state. Based in part on David's testimony, the charge was reduced to manslaughter, and the judge sentenced her to time served, allowing her to return home to her children. For more on this topic: David Healy's Research on SSRIs and Homicidal Urge SSRIs Called on Carpet Over Violence Claims Black Box Warnings and Patient Rights David also emphasized the urgent need to revise Black Box warnings to reflect the full range of possible toxic or dissociative effects of psychiatric medications—not just suicidality. He has long advocated for a Patient Bill of Rights to ensure scientific transparency and informed consent. A Surprising Conversation with Dr. John Nash David shared a fascinating personal story about calling Dr. John Nash, whose life inspired the award-winning film A Beautiful Mind. In the movie, Nash's recovery from schizophrenia is portrayed as medication-dependent. However, Nash told David directly that this was not true—the medication narrative was added to the script, possibly out of concern that portraying his recovery without meds might discourage viewers from taking prescribed medications. Nash said: "What saved me was the support of family and friends." Music, Truth, and "Buzz" David is also a talented songwriter. One of his songs, "Buzz," addresses the emotional and ethical issues surrounding electroconvulsive therapy (ECT). The inspiration came from a man in the Midwest who was legally ordered to undergo ECT against his will. A widespread public outcry ultimately convinced the judge to rescind the order. Forgiveness and "In the Air Tonight" One of David's favorite songs is Phil Collins' "In the Air Tonight," which he sees as a deeply spiritual musical meditation on forgiveness—a theme David considers one of the most powerful psychological forces we possess. David explains that the Phil Collin's song is about forgiveness, but more indirectly and specifically about the songwriter's inability to forgive. And yes—David sang it live for us on the podcast! You might be interested in this chapter that David coauthored on

Stories from a Giant and Gadfly Discover the Protest Music of RainFall!-- like "The Antidepressant Blues!" Today, we are delighted to spend some time with a dear friend and highly esteemed colleague, Dr. David Antonuccio. David is a retired Clinical Psychologist and Professor Emeritus in the Dept. of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Nevada, Reno, School of Medicine. In addition to his academic work, David had his own clinical practice for 40 years. He has published over 100 academic articles and multiple books, primarily on the treatment of depression, anxiety, or smoking cessation. Since his retirement from practice in 2020, he has been making music as part of a duo called RainFall, with his musical partner Michael Pierce. Their music can be found on Spotify, Apple music, and Soundcloud, among other streaming services. I first became familiar with David when a colleague recommended his article entitled: "Psychotherapy versus medication for depression: challenging the conventional wisdom with data," which was published in Professional Psychology: Research and Practice way back in 1995. The article blew my socks off. In the first place, he had come to the many of the same conclusions I had come to, that antidepressants had few "real" effects above and beyond their placebo effects. However, he also had incredible insights into some of the problems and loopholes with drug company research studies on antidepressants, so I tried to get as many colleagues and students as possible to read that article. Here is the article link Although I had never met David, he became my hero. One day, while I was giving one of my two-day CBT workshops in Nevada, I was singing his praises and urging participants to read that classic article, but, unexpectedly, some people started chuckling. At a break, I asked someone why people had been laughing. They said, "Didn't you know that David Antonuccio is here attending this workshop? He was out visiting the bathroom when you were singing his praises, so he didn't hear you!" And that's how we met! I couldn't believe my good fortune in meeting this brilliant and humble man in person. And to my good fortune, we became good friends right off the bat and eventually did a lot of fun professional work together, like our exciting conference challenging the chemical imbalance theory of depression which we called the Rumble in Reno. I was also proud to be included as a co-author in a popular article with David and William Danton reviewing the brilliant work of Irving Kirsch. Kirsch had re-analyzed all the data on antidepressants in the FDA archives and concluded that the chemicals called "antidepressants" had few, if any, clinically significant effects above and beyond their placebo effects. In that paper, we also emphasized the ongoing power struggle between the needs of science and the needs of marketing. Science is devoted to discovering and reporting the truth, based on research, regardless of where it leads, while marketing, sadly, is ultimately loyal to the bottom line, even if deception is required. Here is the link to our article: And here is the full reference: Antonuccio, D. O., Burns, D., & Danton, W. G. (2002). Antidepressants: A Triumph of Marketing over Science? Prevention and Treatment, 5, Article 25. Web link: http://journals.apa.org/prevention/volume5/toc-jul15-02.htm I was sad when David retired from his clinical, teaching, and research career a number of years ago in order to spend more time on creating and recording music because, a passion he'd put on the shelf during the most active years of his career. I felt we'd lost an important and courageous leader in the behavioral sciences, and felt an emptiness, like an important pioneer was suddenly missing. The following link provides a highly readable brief overview of David's career focus and interests. I was thrilled to learn just recently that David has partly resumed his role as gadfly of the behavioral sciences, rejoining the fight for science, ethics and for truth, regardless of where that leads or whose feathers are ruffled. And now, we sit down together to reminisce about his personal life and experiences with many of the greats in our field, like Dr. David Healey, Irving Kirsch, and others who have also stood up for the truth, based on their research, in spite of intense opposition from the establishment. And, today David also brings us his music, with his colleague, Michael Pierce, RainFall. Some of his music has psychiatric / psychological themes, like his "Antidepressant Blues," Some of David's music has humanistic and political themes. He said: Here's a song we just released yesterday that i will assume would not be relevant to the podcast. It is called Final Embrace and was inspired by a heart-breaking international wire photo of a Salvadoran immigrant father hugging his daughter, both deceased, in the rio grande in 2019. Here's the link to the original news story. David's two-man group, Rain

"Doctor, why won't you ever tell me how you really feel?" Therapist Self-Disclosure-- Featuring Dr. Carly Zankman This week, Dr. Carly Zankman joins us to discuss a really interesting and controversial topic—self-disclosure by a therapist. When is it helpful? And when is it an ethics violation? When I was a psychiatric resident, my supervisors (mainly psychoanalytic) cautioned me NEVER to share my feelings with patients. This felt really awkward at time, but is there some wisdom in that advice? And if so, what IS the wisdom? How does it work or help? And if that rule—never sharing your feelings or personal life--is too rigid, then when and how should we share our feelings and personal experiences with our patients? What is the goal, and what are the best practices? As most of you know, I have often been extremely critical of what I was taught as a psychiatric resident, thinking the teachings were based more on tradition than on science or data. And when it came to never share your feelings, I sometimes used to think about this issue along these lines: Let's assume that one of our jobs is to help our patients become more vulnerable and genuine, by sharing how they really feel inside instead of acting fake and always presenting a happy or professional face to the world. That goal seems reasonable, and it's a prime goal of a great many therapists. But how are we supposed to accomplish that goal by acting fake and hiding our own feelings? That just did not seem to make sense to me! But there are lots of traps when it comes to sharing your feelings. What if the patient is attracted to you, or vice versa? What if you do not like the patient, or feel turned off by them or annoyed with them? In today's podcast, we will try to sort out some of these questions, with help from the vivacious and brilliant Carly Zankman, Psy.D. (INSERT CARLY'S BIOSKETCH AND BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF HER TEAM CBT CLINICAL WORK IN MOUNTAIN VIEW, California. Carly described being taught similar things in graduate school, cautioning the students against opening up in a personal way during sessions. However, one of her supervisors listened to one of her sessions with a patient, and said, "the greatest gift you bring to therapy is just opening up and bringing your own, genuine and authentic self into the room." Carly described being taught similar things in graduate school, cautioning the students against opening up in a personal way during sessions. However, one of her supervisors listened to one of her therapy sessions with a patient, and said, "Your greatest gift is bringing your own, genuine and authentic self into the room," and from that point forward, everything shifted in how she viewed her role in the therapeutic relationship. Carly describes working with a patient recently and receiving a 19 / 20 on the Empathy scale at the end of the session. Although 9 out of 10 therapists would say that's a terrific, near-perfect score, on our scoring key it is rated as a failing grade. That's because the patient is telling you that you didn't quite "get" something about them, or didn't quite connect with them in a completely warm and supportive way. Carly's patient was a 40 year old recently re-married woman with a new baby, and struggling with a lot of regret, guilt, shame, depression, and anxiety. Carly decided on a hunch it might be a good idea to share her personal story, since she saw this woman as a mirror image of herself. Carly asked the patient if she wanted Carly to share her story, and this patient lit right up and was excited. It turned out to be tremendously helpful and was what she needed to believe Carly's empathy was real and not phony. The patient said that in the past she'd had many therapists, but none of them had ever share their personal experiences or feelings. Why was that so helpful? How does it work? And what are some red lines that you do NOT want to cross as a therapist? These are just a few of the ideas we discussed on today's podcast. We listed and briefly discussed a few of the many situations where it might NOT make sense to share our feelings or experiences with patients. Rhonda pointed out that if you've had a traumatic experience and you're feeling quite depressed, anxious, or angry, and have not yet had the chance to do your own personal work, it would not be the best idea to share it with your patient, because you might be using the patient as your own therapy or support network. You also would not share feelings of sexual or romantic attraction to a patient strong personal feelings of unresolved depression, anxiety, or anger Some feelings you might share with your patient, but only if you have the great therapeutic skill to do so in a helpful, illuminating way, such as feelings of dislike or anger toward the patient. We also discussed the danger of therapy degenerating into a paid friend relationship, and asked how that differed from the work of Dr. Irvin Yalom, the famous Stanford psychiatrist who taught us that

Helping a Loved One with Schizophrenia Treating OCD! My Hands Might Be Contaminated! How To Mend an Angry, Broken Heart The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Joel asks: How can we use TEAM CBT to help a patient or loved one struggling with schizophrenia? Jean asks: Since CBT won't work with OCD, should we use exposure or the Hidden Emotion Technique instead? Jim asks: When someone has objectively hurt you, like your partner has had an affair, how do you get over that pain? And here are the answers. Question #1 Dear Dr Burns, I learned from you that the foundational principle of CBT is that our emotions, and ultimately our behaviors, are rooted in thoughts or beliefs. Are there emotional and/or behavioral disorders (perhaps like schizophrenia) that are rooted in abnormal neurobiological brain pathologies, rather than in distorted cognitions or self-defeating beliefs? And if so, is TEAM CBT relevant to helping those suffering from these "psychoses"? With much gratitude, respect, and affection, Joel Question #2 Dear Dr. Burns: I'm curious if you have thoughts about the problem of talking back to the obsessive thoughts in OCD. Thank you, Jean Question #3 Dear Dr. Burns: When someone has objectively hurt you, like your partner has had an affair, how do you get over that pain? I am not having thoughts that I did anything wrong, or there is something the matter with me, I feel sad, hurt and confused and angry. Jim Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 3 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the live and unedited follow-up session with Madeleine, a loving mother who became terrified when she realized that her oldest beloved daughter might be in mortal danger during her hear abroad while in college. Part 3 of 3 We were a bit rushed near the end of M = Methods in Part 2 because of a mistake that I (David) made. I forgot that we had extended this webinar by 30 minutes, so we wouldn't be rushed at the end, so I wrongly concluded we were running out of time when we weren't! In order to complete our work, we scheduled Part 3 several weeks later to do the following critical pieces of the work with Madeleine. Additional work with the Externalization of Voices to make sure she could knock all of her self-critical thoughts out of the park. Cognitive Flooding, using the magazine article she was triggered by to prompt the anxiety. The idea is to make yourself as anxious as possible for as long as possible, until the anxiety and panic eventually loses its punch and becomes boring. This will be one of the first times we have illustrated this technique live in a video-recorded session. Any other loose ends that may have emerged since our first session with the wonderful Madeleine! We did some cognitive flooding, urging Madeleine to close her eyes and describe her most terrifying fantasy involving her daughter's abduction by a sociopathy. We encourage her to make herself as anxious as possible, and within minutes she was at 100% and sobbing. Then we did some "memory" rescripting as we had promised her at the start, and part way through there was an unexpected surge of anger, that seemed to come from out of the blue, although the circumstances of the fantasy were clearly more than enough to trigger rage. Using the technique called "Affect Bridging," I asker her whether the anger she was now feeling might trace back to some earlier traumatic event in her life, perhaps when she was young, and this was confirmed. She described a profoundly troubling indecent involve her mother and dad shortly before they got divorced. There was a tremendous amount of emotion packed into today's follow-up session, almost non-stop, in fact. We look forward to seeing Madeleine's end-of-session Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session. Jill and David assigned follow-up homework for her, including 15 minutes per day reading the terrifying article from People Magazine that had initially triggered her in the beauty salon. We want to thank you, Madeleine for your courage in being so open and real, and for giving us all a unique opportunity for some incredible learning, and also the chance to get to know you at a deep a genuine level! Thanks for listening to these three podcasts. We hope you enjoyed them and learned something useful and helpful, especially if you've also been struggling with feelings of depression and anxiety, or if you're a mental health professional wanting to take a deeper dive in to how TEAM CBT can sometimes produce extremely rapid healing, even from severe feelings of depression, anxiety, and despair. Madeleine, Jill, Rhonda, and David Following the session, Madeleine sent us the following feedback on the session via email: Hi Jill and David, Completed after session yesterday, but in my state of emotional fatigue, forgot to hit send! Brief Mood Survey after session: Depression: 3 / 20 (minimal) Suicidal urges: 0 / 12 (none) Anxiety: 8 / 20 (mildly elevated) Anger: 9 / 20 (mild/moderately elevated) Happiness: 12 / 20 (low) Relationship Satisfaction: 29 / 30 (nearly perfect) Evaluation of Therapy Session Empathy: 20 / 20 (perfect score) Helpfulness: 20 / 20 (perfect score) Satisfaction: 8 / 8 (perfect score) Commitment: 8 /8 (perfect score) Neg feelings: 4 (high, range = 0- 4) Difficulties with Q: 2 (medium, range = 0- 4) What did you like the Least: exposure was pain. It feels very heavy and exhausting. And i understand, necessary to healing. What did you like the Most: David's "bridging" my affect states to discover my rage source. Jill's keeping us on track and making connection from my present worry about daughter's safety to past feelings of betrayal, losing trust, and resulting anger in my dad, a trusted figure. You both hit the nail on the head so many times in the session to uncover the deeper, ugly, messy, dark pools that lie within me i choose to keep safely sealed tight and out of the light. Postscript: I just completed day 1 of exposure in re reading the awful article. All the anxiety and fear resurfaced along with new feelings of revenge, determination, appreciation for the authors who are perhaps trying to help the family by publishing this. Ick. Best Regards, Madeleine Again, a big thanks to you Madeleine, and we will watch closely as you continue your courageous daily exposure work, and look forward to the day when you have won this battle! Warmly, david

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 2 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the exciting conclusion of our work with Madeleine, a loving mother who fears that her eldest daughter might be in mortal danger during her year abroad. Last week, you heard about the T = Testing and E = Empathy phase of the live work with Madeleine, a mother feeling intense panic and helplessness and inadequacy because she fears that her daughter could be in grave danger of abduction and worse. This week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, using the Miracle Cure Question, Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and Magic Dial to see if we can melt away her resistance to change. You can see the Emotions table of the Daily Mood Log Madeleine during the Magic Dial portion of the session if you Click Here As you can see, she wanted to reduce her negative feelings somewhat, but thought she still wanted to keep them fairly elevated, since she still sensed that her daughter might be in real danger, and clearly did not want to abandon her. This is one of the significant refinements in TEAM CBT. First, we want to bring the patient's resistance to full conscious awareness. Second, we want patients to full grasp that their negative thoughts and feelings do NOT result from some "defect" or "mental disorder," but rather from what is most beautiful and awesome about them as human beings. After the Magic Button, David and Jill went on to the final, M = Methods portion of the TEAM session, using tools such as Identify and Explain the Distortions, the Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices, with the Acceptance Paradox, the Self-Defense Paradigm, and the CAT (Counter-Attack Technique). We will, of course, do numerous role reversals to see if we can get Madeleine to a "huge" victory over her many distorted thoughts. You can see the Daily Mood Log Madeleine prepared at the end of the session if you Click Here As you can see, the reductions in negative feelings were dramatic, but in several areas (anxiety, inadequacy, frustration and anger), Madeleine's negative feelings were still minimally elevated. That is one of the reasons we decided to schedule an additional session together several weeks later to see if we could intensify Madeleine's responses to her negative thoughts, and hopefully due some Cognitive Flooding to complete her "treatment." At the end of these show notes, you will find an email from Madeleine after the session that includes her end-of-session scores on the BMS and EOTS. You will also see comments submitted by many participants who attended the webinar live. This email below from Madeleine following the session shows her end of session scores on the Brief Mood Survey as well as the Evaluation of Therapy Session at the end of her session with Jill and David. Hi David, Yes, here are my BMS & ETS score totals after the extended session. Please let me know if you have any questions. A relapse prevention session would be nice; however, I hesitate to accept your offer as you all are so busy. Please know that I am practicing the PTs and keeping the NTs in check for now. Thank you again a million times over😊. Yes, Feel free to use the recording however you like. Like I said, it's the least I can do to contribute to your generous and vitally important work. You are both very inspiring in so many ways. Much gratitude, Madeleine Brief Mood Survey (BMS) Depressed 0 / 20 (complete elimination of depression) Suicidal 0 / 12 Anxious 2 / 20 (near-complete elimination of anxiety) Angry 0 / 20 PF 36 / 40 (dramatic improvement in Positive Feelings) RS 29 / 30 (large improvement in Relationship Satisfaction) Evaluation of Therapy Session (ETS) Empathy 20 / 20 (perfect) Helpfulness 20 / 20 (perfect) Satisfaction 8 / 8 (perfect) Commitment 8 / 8 (perfect) Neg feelings 1 (0 – 4) (uncomfortable at times!) Difficulties w/ answering the questions honestly 0 (0 – 4) (no difficulties) What did you like the least? Crying and blathering in front of all those people. Fortunately, I wasn't able to see any faces except yours😉 What did you like the most? Jill's "smooth as silk" empathy skills, David's laser sharp questions, Jill's rephrasing & untangling of the PT to "unlikely," David's having me write powerful PR stuff down, Jill & David's EOV - so strong, David counterattacking my neg thoughts with "sociopath," Jill's double std delivered in a very gentle way. I never felt rushed! Feedback for Madeleine from the chat during the session Comments for Madeline: Madeline!!! I want you as a therapist. Your ability to show how to feel and describe the feel is courageous and admirable. Thank you. Thank you for sharing Madeline, I can completely relate with you as a mother when we worry and has no control on their actions Definitely relate to Madeleine and appreciate her vulnerability. Thank you for your transparency, Madeleine. We appreciate it and can empathize I totally relate. My children are 30 and 32, I parented in the 90"s;

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 1 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present one of our favorite podcast topics—live work with a real human being who is suffering. We will be working with Madeleine, a woman who read a disturbing article while at the hairdresser and freaked out, sensing that one of her daughters might be in mortal danger. This live and unedited session was first presented as part of a free webinar on September 11, 2025. There was no preparation or role-playing—everything was absolutely real and spontaneous, exactly as it evolved in real time. We present Part 1 as our final Feeling Good Podcast for our 2025 season. This is our most powerful and popular type of podcast, and we hope you enjoy it. We also give a big thanks to our courageous "patient," Madeleine. My co-therapist will be Dr. Jill Levitt, a clinical psychologist and Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California. Jill and I greatly enjoy working together as co-therapists when we teach and we typically see our "patient" for an extended, two-hour session. We find that this is the most effective format for teaching, and that way, we can frequently complete a course of therapy in a single session. However, you do not need more than one therapist to do effective TEAM CBT, and you can do it in conventional 50 minute sessions as well. But often, you can do vastly more in a double session. We will not be engaged in an ongoing therapeutic relationship with Madeleine. When we work with therapists, they are doing personal work as a part of their training. We feel that this experience is vital for every therapist who hopes to do world-class TEAM CBT with their own patients / clients. More than 2,000 individuals registered for this workshop. Although the workshop was open to everyone, only 13% of the participants identified as general public, while 87% identified as mental health professionals. In Part 1, which we present today, we focused on T = Testing and E = Empathy phases of the TEAM session. In Part 2, which you will hear next week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting and M = Methods. We will also show you the changes in her scores on the Daily Mood Log (DML) and Brief Mood Survey (BMS) from the start to the end of the session, as well as Madeleine's scores on the Evaluation of Therapy Session (EOTS) at the end, including what she liked the most and least about the session. That way, we can see clearly how much improvement there was (or wasn't) during the session, and how Jill and I did in terms of empathy, helpfulness, and other scales that evaluate the patient's view of the session. In Part 3, which you will hear in two weeks, we did more Externalization of Voices along with Cognitive Exposure, since we had some loose ends we wanted to tie up before completing our work with Madeleine. This follow-up session occurred many weeks after the initial session at the workshop, and will also serve as a follow-up to see how Madeleine did in the days following the live work. Part 1 of 3 Our "patient," Madeleine, is a courageous woman who experienced sheer panic after being triggered at the hair salon while reading an article about a young woman who was abducted. Since Madeleine's oldest daughter's is away at college, taking a year abroad, Madeleine realized she could not protect her from predators and freaked out, thinking about all the horrible things that could happen to her. In addition, Madeleine had many self-critical thoughts about ways she thought she had failed her daughter when her daughter was growing up, and worried about her daughter's judgement: She hasn't always made the best decisions about guys she's gone out with, and she's shared everything with me. She says, 'Don't worry mom. I've learned from this.'" At the start of the session, we reviewed Madeleine's scores on the Brief Mood Survey (BMS). This indicated only minimal depression (5/20), with no suicidal urges or anger, but her anxiety was still extremely elevated (18/20). In addition, her Positive Feelings score was only 20 out of 40, with 0 meaning no positive feelings at all, and 40 being the highest possible feelings. However, her Relationship Satisfaction score with her husband was 25 out of 30, which indicates strong satisfaction, with just a little room for improvement. We will ask Madeleine to complete the BMS again, along with the EOTS, so we can see precisely what changed, and by how much, during the session. Our goal, of course, with TEAM CBT, is nearly always to cause a near-complete, or complete, elimination of symptoms during a single, extended therapy session. In addition, we want every patient to have a crystal clear understanding of how and why they got upset, along with how to use the tools that were the most helpful to them in the session. That way, they'll be armed to deal with future relapses, which are inevitable for all human beings. And here's the big point. Our goal in sharing this session with you is s

Past Projection vs. Memory Rescripting Why Can't I Lose Weight? Do Demons Cause Negative Thoughts! Featuring Our Beloved Dr. Matthew May The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Rhonda asks: What's the difference between Past Projection and Memory Rescripting? Slash asks: How do I overcome my resistance to losing weight? Constantina asks: Do negative thoughts come from demons? And here are the answers! Rhonda asks: What's the difference between Past Projection and Memory Rescripting? I would love to learn more about Memory Rescripting, since I really don't see much difference between that and Past Projection, but maybe I am just dense. So if we could talk about that on the next Ask David, that would be great. Thanks, Rhonda David's reply I use the term, Time Travel, and you can project yourself into the future or the past, hence Future or Past Projection. If you want a patient to travel into the past, there are a great many things you can do that might be helpful. You can do "Forgiveness Training," developed by Jaimie Galindo. Essentially, the patient talks to someone, like a parent, who abused them in some way, telling the parent how hurt they felt, and how they needed the parent's love. Or you can do Cognitive Flooding, simply "watching" some traumatic event to experience the anxiety until it wears out and loses its power to upset you. And there are many more techniques you can use to explore past experiences with a patient. Memory Rescripting is like Cognitive Flooding—you have the patient close their eyes and vividly re-experience something traumatic, like the babysitter abusing them. Then, at the height of the feelings of anxiety, anger, and helplessness, you can tell the patient that they can be like a movie director, and change the scene so there is a different outcome. For example, the patient may want to enter the scene as a powerful adult and punish the perpetrator. This is not some standard procedure, as every patient will be completely different. Often, they will want to do something violent to the perpetrator, so this procedure can be anxiety provoking for the therapist! I have only used it on a couple occasions, but had good results with it both times. I am not a strong believer that patients "must" go into the past to "work through" a prior traumatic experience, so I don't have that much need for it. But it is a good technique to have in your toolbox. Slash asks: How do I overcome my resistance to losing weight? Dear Dr. Burns, I recently listened to your podcast episode on Habits and Addictions, and it really resonated with me. I've been going to the gym regularly, but I'm struggling with my eating habits — I tend to eat too much, and my weight hasn't been decreasing. What I've realized is that I may be experiencing what you describe as outcome resistance. A part of me feels that if I lose weight and become thin and attractive, I might still not take action in areas like dating — so then I ask myself, "Why should I even bother with weight reduction?" I'm finding it difficult to overcome this resistance, even though I want to be healthier. Could you please share some guidance or strategies to work through this kind of resistance? Thank you for all the wonderful work you do. Your podcasts have been truly insightful and helpful. Warm regards, Slash David's reply Thanks, and we will discuss this important question on the podcast. However, in the meantime, if you can search for Triple Paradox you may find your answer. Also, you can download two free unpublished changers on habits and addictions from any page on feeling good.com, and use the Decision -Making, Tool. That, too, will give you the answer! Warmly, david Constantina asks: Do negative thoughts come from demons? David and Rhonda, Hello. I am doing some research into "spiritual" causes of depression. I realize that you are both scientists (and BRILLIANT ones), but if you have any sources I could review, I would appreciate suggestions. It might also make for an interesting Halloween season podcast. Do "demons" cause automatic negative thoughts. And if not demons, what actually causes them? Please don't dismiss this as "crazy". I am a very religious person and at times I have sincerely asked the question...are depression and anxiety ...at least in part, spiritual maladies. I have found tremendous help in Feeling Good, but also in prayer and religious practices. I want to research what has been done in terms of crossover studies/experiments (if any). Marianne David's reply Thank you. The spiritual underpinnings are not so much something to be researched, but can add a deeper dimension of meaning and understanding to the healing. Current thinking is that Self-Defeating Beliefs, not demons, trigger the negative thoughts. I have written about all of this extensively, so I won't try to say it all

Am I Helping People Who Are Suicidal? Should I Worry about My Daughter's Anxiety? Disarming Yourself The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter's anxiety? Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? Dear David, Please tell me if this is too close to medical or other protected advice, but I had a question about something I tell people who are sometimes struggling with suicidal ideation. Throughout my life, I have had the thought "I don't want to be alive anymore" more times than I can count. But what I have come to realize over time is that this is just something my brain says when I'm upset; it doesn't really mean anything other than that. It's just a reaction to being very upset and that reframing helps me feel better about it, knowing that it's not a conviction but rather just how my brain expresses negative distress. Multiple people have found this helpful, but I wonder if telling certain people this would be dismissive/triggering/etc. In a dangerous way? Do you think I should stop sharing this experience? George David's reply: Hi George, Thanks for asking. I will make this an Ask David question, if okay with you, using your first name or some other name if you prefer. Short answer: to me, this is like giving advice, to my way of thinking, and I have spent the last 40 – 50 years indicating that this is NOT an approach that's ever worked for me. Can say more on the podcast. Thanks! Warmly, david No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter's anxiety? Dear Dr. Burns, I am not very skilled at expressing how much you, Rhonda, the others and your work mean to me. So, I will just ask a question. My daughter, who has a lot of anxiety issues told me that when she has a problem, she will purposely stew over it when trying to fall asleep so that she will wake up with an answer to the problem the next morning. I cringed. Is there any way that this is a safe or helpful paradoxical technique? No name David's reply Thanks, I'll copy Rhonda. We are both grateful for your loving comments! Rhonda, we can make this an ask David if you like for a podcast. But short answer, at least, in my opinion, is that this is a cool way to use your brain. It is a skill. For example, I often get confused by a difficult statistics problem when analyzing data, and go to sleep confused. Nearly all the time, my brain wakes me up in the middle of the night with a brilliant answer. So, if she perceived is in a positive way, and isn't disturbed, you could try nourishing it, as opposed to worrying about it! We'll see what Rhonda thinks. Rhonda, I'll add this great brief question to our list for Tuesday. I am reluctant to postpone the Ask David as when we've done this in the past, we've ended up never answer at least 20 to 30 questions which are now too old to put on a podcast. Those who asked may no longer even be alive it's been so long! Warmly, david Rhonda's reply Thank you for this lovely feedback. It really means a lot to us. Your daughter is going through something so many of us experience. I am excited we can respond to your question on an Ask David podcast. Warmly, Rhonda Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? Subject: Question about using disarming technique on oneself, and also it being used against you. Endless gratitude to all of you for the pipeline of clarity and hope. I was wondering if one can use disarming on oneself. Much of the focus in feeling good seems focused on looking for and challenging our distortions, which seems the opposite of disarming. Maybe the reversal of agendas emphasized in feeling great is essentially putting the disarming back into the process in regards to ourselves. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. On a side note, if one is in a legal contention or divorce, I could see how disarming could be effective and pacifying, yet what if those admissions could be used against you. David's reply I would like to include this in an Ask David podcast, with our first name or a fake name. Please advise if okay. Short answer: the ideas and tools to treat individual mood problems, like depression, are the complete opposite of the ideas and tools to treat relationship problems. This is like matter and anti-matter. However, the Disarming Technique and the Acceptance Paradox connect these two opposed and radically different worlds. So, in a sense, you are right. The Acceptance Paradox is a lot like disarming yourself! Best, david Jeffry's reply to david Thank you for the succinct response, and I look forward to hearing it fleshed out in the podcast. I would be honored for you to mention my name: Jeffrey - from the outskirts of Jerusalem in Israel And thank you to the whole team for keeping the b

Ask David Why do I obsess? Why do I have to be perfect? How can I share my feelings without oversharing? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What's causing this? And what can I do? Yevhen asks: How can I use "I Feel" Statements without oversharing? But first, we start today's podcast with a comment from Susan, one of our podcast fans. She extends our discussion of whether friendship is more of a human "need" or a human "want." She describes her work with Dr. Daniel Herman, a Level 4 certified TEAM CBT therapist. Hi Rhonda, Matt, and David, First, I wanted to say I am so glad sweet Rhonda is feeling better. This is wonderful news! I have been a fan of Dr. Burns books for 10+ years and of the podcast for 3 years. I just finished listening to podcast #469 on friendship and felt compelled to share my story as it relates to Team CBT. Three years ago, my 23 year-old son entered a 90 day inpatient rehabilitation center for a marijuana addiction followed by 1 1/2 years in a sober living facility. Six months into his recovery, I reached out to Dr. Daniel Hermann, a Team CBT level 4 therapist. At that time, my son's progress had been steady yet I was still suffering greatly. One of many thoughts that contributed to my suffering was that my friends couldn't understand what I was going through. Although I have been fortunate to have had many wonderful friendships for 30+ years, Although I was open with my friends about my struggles, I generally didn't feel they understood what I was going through and I felt isolated. Fortunately, Dr. Herman did not try to convince me that I "needed" these friendships or to be understood to "get through" this difficult time. Instead, he helped me to look at the situation realistically, without distortions. My positive reframe regarding my friends was "I wish I could have felt closer to my friends during this difficult time. However, there are many ways in which I have supported myself and I have found other outside sources of comfort also." I made a very detailed list of the myriad of ways I had supported myself which brought me great comfort and empowerment. I was able to accept that I wasn't feeling as close to my friends as I would have liked, without blaming them or myself. I also let go of my belief that my friends "should" have been able to empathize better with what I was going through. I learned that although I truly value these friendships, if I expect them to mean everything to me in every situation, I will be setting myself up for a lot of suffering. I am so happy that sweet Rhonda had those strong friendships to help her during such a dark time. She is very fortunate! Since Rhonda had a change of heart during the podcast, the following comments are based on her beliefs at the beginning of the podcast: that the support of her friends is a need and that she could not have "gotten through" her treatments without it. Did Rhonda mean that she would have not sought cancer treatment, the treatments would have been ineffective, or that she would have ended her life without the support of her friends? Would she have told a client of hers in a similar situation that she needed to focus all her time and effort on developing meaningful friendships rather than treating her cancer because friendship was the true need? Obviously, I don't believe she would have and am glad that she had a change of heart regarding this belief. Thank you all for your wonderful podcasts! Susan The point I was trying to make is that Dr. Hermann himself did not appear to believe in these self-defeating beliefs, contrary to public opinion. This was essential to me coming to the same conclusions. (To be clear, he NEVER told me what to believe lol. I was paying him but I did all the work! Frustrating at times but coming to my own conclusions was the only way to internalize these messages.) Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What's causing this? And what can I do? Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind and prompt reply. I truly appreciate you taking the time to direct me to the additional resources on your website—I have found them and am already finding them very helpful. Please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in responding. The beginning of the new semester has kept me quite occupied, and I have only now found a moment to write to you properly. I am writing to you again because I have been struggling with some persistent challenges and was hoping I might ask for your guidance. Lately, I often find myself distracted by vivid, intrusive daydreams—I create elaborate imaginary stories or visualize worst-case scenarios, such as natural disasters. In addition, I have developed what feels like an obsessive need to keep my bo

Relapse and Relapse Prevention for Overeating Featuring Dr. Angela Krumm On today's podcast, we proudly feature an old friend, Dr. Angela Krumm, on the topic of relapse prevention for habits and addictions. This is certainly a top of incredible importance, since all treatments for all habits and addictions seem to have extremely high relapse rates. Anything we could do to reduce that would be a major contribution. Angela was on our Feeling Good Podcast #270 on Nov 29, 2021 describing some TEAM CBT methods she'd developed to deal with her own weight gain. In podcast #270 she taught listeners how to set process goals, instead of outcome focused goals. She then taught about the Triple Paradox, Habit Addiction Log, Devil's Advocate technique, and the Problem-Solution log. In that first episode she explained that this was a difficult time in her life: her father had died, and she'd also experienced a traumatic fall which caused a concussion. So she fell off being careful about her diet, and one day was shocked that she could not recognize herself—due to weight gain--in a photo, and was on the fast track to Type II Diabetes. As a result, she utilized many of the TEAM CBT techniques and slowly, but surely, lost weight and kept it off for multiple years. She explains that she was "solid for a long time, but have to confess, with shame, that I eventually relapsed because I got over-confident. I'd been tracking what I ate, which was an important key for me, and stopped keeping up with it consistently, thinking I didn't really need to anymore." We reviewed the kinds of tempting thoughts she'd had (and still has, of course, at times), when she feels tempted by her favorites: things like delicious brownies, red wine, and other sweet treats. She has tempting thoughts such as: I deserve to take a break from tracking what I eat. I deserve a treat—I've had a hard day. It's silly to be so rigid. I deserve to eat whatever I want. Spontaneity is one of my core values! During the podcast, we illustrated the Devil's Advocate Technique (DAT), which is powerful and a lot of fun, but sometimes trickier than it looks. When Angela gave a "good" but not "huge" response to one of these tempting thoughts, I automatically suggested a role-reversal. Rhonda immediately and rightly reminded us that we never do role-reversals when people are stuck during the Devil's Advocate. Instead, we paradox the person and sit with open hands. Rhonda modeled this beautifully and it worked like a charm. Angela had a sudden about face and blew the tempting thought out of the water immediately. We made three teaching points on DAT. Don't give in to the urge to "help." This will have the opposite effect of keeping the patient stuck. Realize that if you're a therapist, and your patient cannot convincingly defeat all the temping thoughts in the office, the likelihood that they can defeat them when they're at home is 0%. So, the DAT is both a powerful technique to boost motivation with tools you can use when tempted, but it is also a powerful test of motivation. Remember to Sit with Open Hands if your patients cannot convincingly defeat their tempting thoughts. Angela shared that she now realizes that the main reason for her relapse was that she had skipped relapse prevention. This is the danger of being your own therapist, sometimes you make the mistake of cutting corners or getting overly confident. She asked to return to the podcast today to talk about that important mistake and help others prevent that mistake in the future. She wants us to emphasize the important of Relapse Prevention for all habits and addictions. When Angela mentioned that she'd relapsed in her eating to a therapist who was just learning TEAM-CBT, the therapist seemed shocked and asked, "Oh, does this mean that the techniques we're learning don't actually work?" This is such a great (but naïve and common) question, because we always emphasize that all patients—in fact all human beings—will relapse after recovery from depression, anxiety, a relationship conflict, or a habit / addiction. That's why it's so important to tell patients about relapse before discharge from therapy, and do a brief but intensive relapse prevention intervention. We reviewed several of the Relapse Prevention techniques, including the Problem Solution List and the Relapse Prevention Daily Mood Log, using and recording the Externalization of Voices. When you do this step with a patient, ask them to imagine the future moment in time when they have relapsed. It's important to capture the thoughts that will lead them to give up and quit using the techniques. Often, these are hopeless thoughts about the usefulness of the techniques or their ability to remain in recovery. If these thoughts are left unchecked, they will spiral the person into a deeper and more lengthy relapse. If they can predict the thoughts ahead of time and generate powerful rebuttals to use in that moment, then their first moment of relapse can be turn

Most of us think we're great communicators… but the truth is, we often aren't. At the free webinar on Wednesday, December 3 from 11 to 1 PT, you'll learn some tremendous new skills that will blow your mind. They'll also transform your relationships with the people you care about! Sign up now at FeelingGoodWebinar.com. It's for EVERYBODY! Shrinks and the general public alike are warmly welcomed. Therapists can purchase two CE credits if you attend the live event. See you there!

COMING UP IN JANUARY: Fast Track to LEVEL 3 TEAM CBT Certification Howdy! If you're a therapist looking to strengthen your TEAM CBT skills and earn continuing education credit, here's an exceptional opportunity coming up in January 2026. Feeling Good Institute's Fast Track to Level 3 TEAM CBT Certification Starts January 16, 2026 • 25 weeks • 46 CEs Special Offer for Podcast Listeners: Use discount code FRIEND50 for a course price of $595.* Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com. This hybrid course combines: • Live weekly practice groups • Self-paced video training featuring Dr. David Burns & Dr. Jill Levitt • Deliberate Practice exercises such as Externalization of Voices and the Double Standard Technique • FREE Therapist Toolkit ($199 value) • Certification exam fees included *Early-Career Clinicians: If you're an Associate or Postdoc in the USA or Canada, use code EarlyCareer2026 and get the course for just $195 plus exam fee. Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com. If you want to level up your therapy skills for the rest of your career, this may be the ideal time.

David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 2 of 2 Today, you will hear part 2 of the Webinar that Dr. Jill Levitt and I did on September 11th on TEAM CBT and powerful exposure techniques for anxiety disorders. Jill's fantastic teaching includes the importance of recognizing the "Safety Behaviors" that sabotage effective exposure therapy. You will hear the dramatic story of a woman who recovered from more than 20 years of OCD / germ phobia in less than one minute while attending David's free weekly psychotherapy seminar at Stanford. You will also learn about "Memory Rescripting," and how it suddenly changed the life of a veteran who'd lost the capacity to feel human feelings following a traumatic experience in Vietnam 25 years earlier. Thanks for listening. Please let us know if you want future webinars presenting as podcasts. We will also publish them in their entirety on our YouTube Feeling Great channel, so the additional publication on a podcast may be overkill. Let us know! Warmly, Rhonda, Jill, and David

David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 1 of 2 Today, you will hear part 1 of the Webinar that Dr. Jill Levitt and I did on September 11th of the fine points of exposure techniques for anxiety disorders. More than 2,000 individuals (mainly therapists, but many general public as well) registered for this event. It was super well received, thanks in large part to Jill's super awesome teaching skills! I feel so lucky every time we teach together. In part 1 today, you will hear about an overview of TEAM CBT, as well as the four treatment models we use with every person who is struggling with anxiety: The Motivational Model The Cognitive Model The Exposure Model The Hidden Emotion Model You will also see a dramatic example of the use of a powerful cognitive technique (the Experimental Technique) with Terri, a woman who'd struggled for ten years with extreme panic attacks and depression. You will see the exact moment of recovery, when her uncontrollable sobbing suddenly turned into uncontrollable laughter, joy, and relief. This may be the most dramatic psychotherapy example ever recorded. Although this podcast of the webinar is in audio only, you can also SEE this dramatic segment on YouTube at LINK to TERRI VIDEO Next week you will hear part 2 of that webinar, with Jill's fantastic teaching on the fine points of exposure, including the importance of recognizing the "Safety Behaviors" that sabotage effective treatment. You will hear the dramatic story of a woman who recovered from more than 20 years of OCD / germ phobia in less than one minute while attending David's free weekly psychotherapy seminar at Stanford. You will also learn about "Memory Rescripting," and how it suddenly changed the life of a veteran who'd lost the capacity to feel human feelings following a traumatic experience in Vietnam 25 years earlier. Thanks for listening. Please let us know if you want future webinars presenting as podcasts. We will also publish them in their entirety on our YouTube Feeling Great channel, so the additional publication on a podcast may be overkill. Let us know! Warmly, Rhonda, Jill, and David

Ask David Are You Getting Old and Cranky Now? TEAM CBT and Spirituality The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Jenn asks: Are you getting old and cranky now? Jenn also asks: How did you get involved with / develop the spiritual and enlightenment aspect of TEAM? Dear Dr. Burns, Let me start by saying thank you for all of your hard work and diligence in creating a method which is so user friendly. Completing the book, When Panic Attacks, changed my life and helped me reach enlightenment. My Ask David question is inspired by the last few podcasts, the live session with Rhonda and the live session with Madelaine which David just did with Jill. David has clearly worked so hard to create TEAM and has dedicated so much time to perfect it. I was lucky enough to have been introduced to the podcast when it first started. Some of my favorite episodes to listen to are the live therapy sessions. I've gained insight and felt heard through many of these such as when David told Lee how lonely enlightenment can be because I agree with that! Recently I have noticed that David's demeanor has changed and was hoping to ask about it. I can imagine David might feel lonely in his expertise sometimes. I might be on the wrong track here too but I wonder if David might be feeling frustrated with the lack of understanding from people around him. He has been dedicating his life to this and still people do not understand certain aspects of his research and teaching. On recent podcasts, David had mentioned that he gets more irritated with teaching now too and it has seemed like he is irritated with Rhonda at points. He has mentioned that he feels disappointed if he doesn't see change in 2 hour sessions. Recently I watched a live session with Madelaine and some of the techniques (for example, calling her negative self sociopath during counter attack) did not seem to land or resonate with her and that wasn't addressed with David's usual love and tenderness and warmth with empathy. It seemed rushed and not necessarily focused on the patient outcome but the timeline. I did not find it to be David's usual work of patience and warmth. I could be completely off the rails but I am wondering if this is resonating with David and if he could share more about what it's been like for him recently. I also am wondering if it is difficult to navigate being seen as "a great leader" in a field. Do people see you as "David" simply a dedicated expert in your field or do people treat you like a "God" that has all the answers? I can imagine people would want help from you 24/7 and if you could speak to that. I am hoping David can look at some of those thoughts and comments he's made on the podcasts and become the client for us listeners! I would love for David to show us how to experience TEAM from the client's perspective for all to hear. I have used TEAM-CBT for 10 years and recently started the Fast Track Program which I am very excited for! Thank you again for this truly amazing process! Jenn David's reply Thanks, Jenn, You are right, I DO feel quite a bit of irritation with our field and can identify a bit with Martin Luther, who nailed his treatise / ideas on someone's door hundreds of years ago, and also Jesus who angrily threw the money changers out of the temple a couple thousand years ago. I know that sounds narcissistic, but that's how I feel sometimes. My frustration has several dimensions: The field, to my way of thinking, is incredibly screwed up and anti-scientific, divided into irrational cults called "schools" of therapy. Nobody seems to notice this "elephant" in our room! Hey, are you all sleeping? Did you learn critical thinking in college? When challenged by research that seriously questions the validity and effectiveness of current psychotherapies for depression and anxiety, for example, no one seems to care or notice. It seems like wrong theories die hard. People do not like being criticized and got angry when I criticize the field of psychotherapy. So, there is a kind of a "let's be politically correct" and be super "nice" to everyone, so as not to stir them up or hurt their feelings. There is a potential for massive change and improvements in psychotherapy and psychiatric treatment, but it would require a revolution and the acceptance of totally new approaches which would threaten many therapists' thinking and survival at a very basic level. Are you or others interested in my thinking? Let me know. If so, more later, maybe on a podcast or two with Jill and Matt, and of course, Rhonda. And here are the answers to some of your other questions. You say, "He has mentioned that he feels disappointed if he doesn't see change in 2 hour sessions." We're not on the same page here. I nearly always see dramatic change in 2 hour sessions, and I'm dramatic that I have created a therapeutic approach that makes this possible. When I was a yo

Dr. David Burns and Jill Levitt will teach you seven jaw-dropping techniques to end feelings of shyness and social anxiety. For shrinks AND for the general public. If you're hurting, or you have patients who are hurting, we want you to join us! It's 100% free. Therapists even get two FREE CE credits if you attend the live event. Sign up now at CBTforSocialAnxiety.com. This event could change your life. It's Wednesday, November 5th, 2025, from 11 AM to 1 PM Pacific Coast Time. Be THERE!

Ask David: What's the best way to do Positive Reframing? Is the "20 Qualities I'm Looking for in an Ideal Mate" reliable? And, How can I tell if someone I'm dating is REALLY honest, loyal, and faithful? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Julia asks: is it more important to do positive reframing on feelings (anxiety, anger, frustration) rather than on specific thoughts («I should be calmer»)? Charlotte asks: What's the best way to use the "20 Qualities I'm looking for in an ideal mate?" Charlotte also asks: What's the best way to find out if someone you're dating is going to be loyal, faithful, and honest? Julia asks: is it more important to do positive reframing on feelings (anxiety, anger, frustration) rather than on specific thoughts («I should be calmer»)? Dear David and Rhonda, I listened today to the Podcast 460 on The fear of Happiness. What a wonderful podcast! I love the deeper dives on one topic and especially when you focus on discussing positive reframing. If Rhonda felt like she didn't do her best on the podcast, I definitely was struggling a lot even on coming up with positives for Thomas. And It's been some years since I positively reframe my feelings! Here is my question: Why is it more important to do positive reframing on feelings (anxiety, anger, frustration) rather than on specific thoughts («I should be calmer»)? I always find it easier and more helpful for myself to positively reframe the specific thoughts rather than the feelings. I specifically see the reason why a thought is both serving me and saying something so awesome about me and my core values. It usually elevates my mood and my overthinking on the spot. On the other hand doing it on feelings is also very helpful but can remain sometimes on the general level. It still speaks truly to me and I confirm every value but is less poignant than specific thoughts. Thank you both so much for such a wonderful podcast! All the best, Julia from Italy David's Response Thanks, will add this to the next Ask David list. Great question! One thing to keep in mind is that you can do Positive Reframing on anything: a thought, a distortion, an emotion, a behavior, and more. So, the answer is, "it all depends!" On the podcast, we can try to figure out what it all depends on, so we have a systematic way of thinking about this great question. But part of the answer will be, "whatever works for you." The PR of a thought is more specific and unique to you, so that's a plus for including thoughts along with some of the feelings. The feelings are great because they are relatively easy, if you know how to PR them, and the impact can be enormous and, of course, beneficial. Warmly, david Charlotte asks: What's the best way to use the "20 Qualities I'm looking for in an ideal mate?" Is this tool reliable? Charlotte also asks: What's the best way to find out if someone you're dating is going to be loyal, faithful, and honest? Dear David and dear Rhonda, I love the Podcast so much! It has come with me the last 2 years almost every week and its been incredibly helpful both as a therapist to be and as a human being doing this crazy thing called life! You two put so much of your heart into it and I am beyond grateful for all your hard work and what you give to all of us for free every week of the year. I don't know where I would be without TEAM and what I know for sure is I never wanna live without TEAM and this beautiful community of kind, funny and big hearted people anymore. Big thanks to both of you and Matt May and all the people who agreed to publish their personal work. Those episodes are extra special for me and always help me overcome my own struggles even more! Hugs from Berlin, Germany Charlotte I also have a question regarding your episodes around Dating. OMG I can't tell you how helpful they were for me. I am going through a pretty painful break up right now and these episodes gave me so many tips for my future endeavors of dating to find a life partner! So, I would be more than thrilled about another or more podcasts going through that topic! I have two questions regarding Dating that came up for me along the way: There is this sheet I use often and was mentioned called "20 qualities in a partner." I love this and rated all my exes in hindsight and also people I dated e.g. my then boyfriend. My boyfriend got a way higher score than my exes at the time and now that we are broken up I reviewed that list. Knowing what I know now the score changed quite a bit which confused me a lot. Now I am wondering how reliable this list is especially if you don't know the person very well in the beginning. How do you handle this list when you're on your first date--let's say--and barely know that person? It's hard to rate someone on availability, loyalty, honesty and so forth when you don't know them yet?! Is there a trick you can do to find that out qu

Dr. David Burns and Jill Levitt will teach you seven jaw-dropping techniques to end feelings of shyness and social anxiety. For shrinks AND for the general public. If you're hurting, or you have patients who are hurting, we want you to join us! It's 100% free. Therapists even get two FREE CE credits if you attend the live event. Sign up now at CBTforSocialAnxiety.com. This event could change your life. It's Wednesday, November 5th, 2025, from 11 AM to 1 PM Pacific Coast Time. Be THERE!

Ask David, Dr. Matthew May asks--and helps us answer--the most common question he hears from his patients and fans: How do I help a loved one, friend, or colleague who's upset, agitated, angry, anxious, and more? Matt asks: People ask me about a loved one who is anxious, and want to know what to do to help that person. Example: "My daughter is hooked on social media. She's literally 'addicted'. She has terrible insomnia, low self-esteem, anxiety, hopelessness, depression, anger and fits of rage when we try to take her phone away. When my daughter is online, she texts things like: Is this really happening? This can't be happening OMG! This is terrible! How awful! Why am I so unpopular? I'm totally alone I shouldn't have posted all that stuff Everyone thinks I'm an idiot I have to do something to fit in Everything's hopeless. I give up. Is someone monitoring and recording me? All those creeps are evil and deserve worse than what they're getting On the podcast, Matt, Rhonda and David demonstrate effective and ineffective ways of responding to your loved one, or to anyone who is complaining and feeling upset. They use role-playing to illustrate the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, and you will see how hard it can be to hit it out of the park, even for experts! Thanks for listening today! In the upcoming weeks, we'll have several more Ask David episodes with these questions and more. Julia asks: is it more important to do positive reframing on feelings (anxiety, anger, frustration) rather than on specific thoughts («I should be calmer»)? Charlotte asks: What's the best way to use the "20 Qualities I'm looking for in an ideal mate?" Charlotte also asks: What's the best way to find out if someone you're dating is going to be loyal, faithful, and honest? Jenn asks: Are you getting old and cranky now? Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What's causing this? And what can I do? Yevhen asks: How can I use "I Feel" Statements without oversharing? George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter's anxiety? Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David

You're Right! A Deep Dive on the Disarming Technique Featuring Dr. Brandon Vance On today's podcast, we will be practicing the Disarming Technique and illustrate the Law of Opposites, using real examples with lots of potential for learning. We feature our good friend and esteemed colleague, Brandon Vance, MD, who is an advanced TEAM therapist. Starting on November 5, Brandon will be offering a 6-week course on a Deep Dive Five Secrets Practice Group, meeting weekly from 12 to1:30, until December 10th. This course is strongly recommended for anyone who wants to learn and master the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. To learn more, you can click here Our goals for today's podcast will be to illustrate how to disarm, with role play examples, of any number of very challenging examples. Once we have done role reversals and developed a good or excellent response to the criticism, we will try to point out two things important for teaching the Disarming Technique. The Law of Opposite: Here it is: When you humbly find the real truth in the criticism, even if it sounds exaggerated, distorted, unfair, or just plan wrong, it suddenly won't be true anymore. This is a paradox! In contrast, if you defend yourself from the criticism, which you WILL do, you will simply prove that the criticism is correct. This is also a paradox! We will illustrate some strategies for how to disarm seemingly "impossibly wrong and unfair" criticisms. We started with a classic example. Let's say a loved one angrily insists, "You never listen." Then we focused on a challenging clinical example, a patient who insists that "You're to worst shrink I've EVER had! Where did you do your psychiatric training? At a veterinarian school?" The exercise is fairly simple in structure, but quite challenging when you try it out in an actual role play exercise with a friend or colleague. Step 1: Your colleague or friends hits you with one of the following criticisms listed below. Step 2: You respond as effectively as you can, using the Disarming Technique and the rest of the Five Secrets of Effective Communication as needed. Step 3. Your colleague gives you a letter grade along with what you did that was effective, and where you missed the boat. Step 4. Do a role reversal and repeat the above steps. Continue with this process until you get an A in your response to the criticism. I don't have a full list of strategies for agreeing with impossible criticisms, but here are two: continue editing here Don't respond to the criticism literally. Instead, try to "hear" what the other person is trying to say to you. Example: Your patient says, "This is the second week in a row that you've been late to our sessions." Ineffective, literal response: "Yes, that's true. I've been delayed by emergency situations both today and last week." Explanation: This is harsh and literal, and misses the point entirely. This patient is trying to tell you that they feel ignored and uncared about, and this may in fact be a central dynamic in their life. Somewhat more effective response: "Yes, I share your concern, especially since I have high regard for you and hate having to be late. I'm really worried it will come across as uncaring and irresponsible. In fact, I had unexpected emergencies with suicidal patients both days, and will certainly make up the missed time for you, and not even charge you for today's session. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if you feel hurt and even a bit angry with me, and for good reason. Can you tell me how you are feeing?" This type of response gives you the chance to turn your lemons into lemonade! When you disarm, never say, "I can see how you might feel that way!" This is just a subtle way of sending this insulting message" 'You're wrong, and you're making a misinterpretation because you're a disturbed patient!" If a psychotic individuals makes a bizarre-sounding criticism, listen to the music behind the words and respond to that in a disarming way. For example, imagine that your hospitalized inpatient with paranoid schizophrenia says, "I know you're conspiring against me with the FBI." What is this patient trying to tell you? They are telling you, symbolically, something like this: "During our session yesterday, you were not trustworthy. I was anxious and still am!" So, you might respond like this: "Jim, I am embarrassed to admit that I agree with you completely, and also feel bad about it. During our session yesterday, I did a lousy job of supporting you, and we just didn't connect, which was my bad. I felt like an enemy, and not your ally, so I get what you're saying. This is important because I care a great deal for you. Can you tell me what it was like for you yesterday?" With this type of kindly, disarming, and non-threatening response, most patients will open up right away. This list of errors is not comprehensive. It's just a started kit to point you, hopefully, in the right direction. You will get many of the fine points by listening to the l

TEAM Trauma Treatment-- How Does It Work? And Why? Featuring Dr. Jill Levitt Today's podcast features one of our favorite guests, Dr. Jill Levitt, who is one of the greatest psychology teachers on planet earth. We explore trauma, and how it is treated. We focus in particular on the unique features of trauma treatment using TEAM CBT. Jill is currently the Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California, but she has had intensive training in trauma treatment beginning during her psychology internship at the Cornell Medical Center (? is this correct) in 200? (dates please Jill) and continuing until (date please.) She worked with adults survivors of childhood physical and sexual abuse, as well as victims of the 2011 tragedy at the world trade center, which happened when she was working in New York. She got extra training from several outstanding experts in the treatment of trauma and anxiety, including the renown Dr. Edna Foa, from Temple University in Philadelphia, as well as (please list if you like, Jill!) Rhonda also has extensive experience in the treatment of trauma since she worked for (x years, please fill in) at th San Francisco Rape and Trauma Clinical. Rhonda emphasized the importance of shame and toxic but high irrational self-blame so often seen in trauma patients of all ages, including, of course, children. Jill and Rhonda emphasized the importance of the selective use of exposure techniques with trauma patients, and the unfortunate fear that many, and perhaps most, therapists have of these techniques, wrongly fearing that the patient will decompensate and that the therapist, too, will become overwhelmed when hearing the patient recount their horrific experiences in detail. I, David, will add that I've never had a negative experience with the use of exposure techniques, like cognitive flooding, memory rescripting, and many more with any trauma patients. However, I always do E = Empathy first, as well as A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, to guarantee that the patient and I will be working together as a collaborative team. Rhonda asked us to talk a bit about "vicarious trauma" that the therapist might experience when working with trauma patients. Both Jill and David said they've never experienced this, and that only our thoughts, and not the experiences our patients describe, can upset us. We believe the concept of "vicarious trauma" is highly (but not intentionally) misleading and needlessly frightening to those working with trauma patients. Of course, if a therapist does become triggered when working with any patient, including a trauma patient, that is grist for the mill for the therapist to work out with their own therapist, using perhaps the Daily Mood Log to explore and challenge the therapist's upsetting negative thoughts. Perhaps the most important theme today focused on the treatment of trauma patients--as well as non-trauma patients--individually, using TEAM to pinpoint one moment the patient was upset, and exploring their negative thoughts and feelings with the help of the Daily Mood Log, as well as the other vitally important components of T E A M. I (David) do not place much stock in treating patients with "formulas" based on their "diagnosis" or problem. I did 20 or more two day trauma workshops around the US and Canada several years back, and treated a volunteer from the audience at each workshop on the evening of day 1, using a two-hour TEAM CBT session. In all or nearly all of these sessions, the individuals experienced a triumphant and blow-away elimination of all their negative feelings by the end of the demonstration. But here's the interesting thing: although I occasionally included cognitive exposure, it was perhaps the technique I used the least often with these individuals. Far more powerful for most were techniques like Explain the Distortions, the Paradoxical Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices. Sometime, an interpersonal technique, including the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, was helpful, even life-changing. If you are interested, you can read about those sessions in Chapter X in my most recent book, Feeling Great, as well as illustrations of the data from all the patients, showing the dramatic changes in negative and positive feelings from the start to the end of the sessions. Why did these individuals recover so dramatically and quickly--within a single session? I believe it was because I focused on what was upsetting THEM, and developing an agenda and selecting methods to focus on what they wanted. This, to my way of thinking, is different, even radically different, from imposing a pre-set agenda on patients simply because we think they have some type of trauma diagnosis. David described the three elements of an "abuse contract" between the abuser and the victim: I get to hurt or exploit you for my own pleasure. The Blame will be 100% on you. I am a blameless, superior god. We must keep this as a secret, e

Procrastination: Be Gone! And "Physician, Heal Thyself!" Really? Why? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. This will be podcast #470 on 10/6/2025 Procrastination: Be Gone! And Physician, Heal Thyself! Really? Why? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Rhonda asks: Why do people procrastinate? Rhonda asks: Wouldn't you first deal with the negative thoughts that are a part of the procrastination before working on it? Rhonda asks: Here is a question I have: You often say, "physician heal thyself," and encourage personal work by the therapist. Why does the therapist have to face their own issues to help someone else? A heart surgeon doesn't have to have heart surgery in order to conduct surgery on their patient. Why does a therapist have to do their personal work? Rhonda writes: I have been thinking a lot about procrastination since we met last week. Why do people procrastinate? It's one thing not to put away a stack of files on your desk, it's another thing to procrastinate on something major, like finishing your dissertation, doing your taxes, or some things that have a major consequence. It's a habit like anything else so there is a cue, the pattern, and the reward. Cue: I don't want to finish my dissertation because it's overwhelming and I don't think I am smart enough to finish it, and I don't want to face it. Pattern: Procrastinate Reward: Relief that I have avoided it another day. So, wouldn't you first deal with the negative thoughts that are a part of the procrastination before working on it? I've also been thinking a lot about positive reframing. I always do it, even with a client who has done it before, to remind people, and keep alive, their positive qualities, and to encourage more embracing/accepting of their symptoms as beautiful parts of themselves. With clients who have experience doing Positive Reframe, reframing their THOUGHTS, not just their feelings, can give a lot of insight. Here is a question I have, you often say, "physician heal thyself," and encourage personal work by the therapist. Why does the therapist have to face their own issues to help someone else? A heart surgeon doesn't have to have heart surgery in order to conduct surgery on their patient. Why does a therapist? David replies People procrastinate because they don't want to do the thing they are putting off. There is no one reason, since we're all different. And we all tend to avoid things that seem unpleasant, and gravitate towards things that are more pleasant. I classify it in the general category of "Habit / Addiction." For years I dealt with the reasons people procrastinate as a first step, including the thoughts they have at the moment they procrastinate. I thought my job was to "help" the person who was procrastinating. This was universally unsuccessful, and not their failure became MY failure. This allowed them to continue procrastinating, since the doctor was trying to help them, and responsible for helping them. I decided, instead, to go with an approach that works. It took a number of years to figure that out! But it was a huge relief! We don't say that a psychiatrist or psychologist has to have schizophrenia or be cured of schizophrenia to help someone with schizophrenia. And we don't say that a mental health professional has to have OCD to treat someone with OCD effectively. No one has ever claimed that. What I am saying is that a heart surgeon has to have credibility and training in successful heart surgery to get the license practice surgery. But how does a mental professional get credibility? Well, let's say that you've once had severe public speaking anxiety, as I have had. And social anxiety as well. So, when a patient comes to me with social anxiety or public speaking anxiety, I can say, "Oh, I've had that too, and I know exactly how awful that can feel. And, it's going to be a pleasure to show you the way out of the woods." This message is generally welcomed by patients because it conveys two messages: I know how much you're suffering, because I've experienced it myself. I have the skills and the confidence to treat you successfully. Would you want to go to a therapist for the treatment of your own public speaking anxiety, or shyness, if you knew that the therapist had these problems and still hadn't found a cure for themself? There are other powerful reasons for doing your own personal work: You can see the impact of therapist errors if colleagues have tried to treat you without good empathy or methods. You can see what recovery / enlightenment mean at a much deeper level! You can see how and why certain techniques can be so critically important and helpful, and why many others will not be helpful. Once you have done your own work successfully, and experienced your own "enlightenment

#469 Ask David-- What if AI steals my job? I'm freaking out! Recently, I got a cool question from Megan Morrone, a technology and science editor at Axios. She asked about job anxiety due to fears of AI taking over our work. Initially, I declined to speculate, since I've never treated anxiety due to AI stealing someone's job. But the more I thought about it, I realized I had quite a few, perhaps humble, things to say, so here it is, with help from Matt and Rhonda. I'll include a link to her column at the end of these show notes. She wrote: Dear Dr. Burns, I'm a technology and science editor at Axios, working on a story about job anxiety and how it affects workers today. Would have time to chat with me about it? I'm hoping to schedule a brief phone or Zoom conversation before Tuesday. 15–20 minutes? We'd potentially discuss: Why job-related anxiety feels especially pervasive right now What strategies are most effective in managing it How CBT approaches can be applied in workplace or career contexts Please let me know if you have availability. Best, Megan Morrone She subsequently clarified her focus: Hi! I'm looking at anxiety around AI stealing your job. Would you be able to speak to that? Any chance you're Monday between 7:30AM-9:30AM Pacific or anytime after 12:30pm Pacific time? I'd only need 20-30 minutes and we can do it via phone or video call. David's response Hi Megan, I thought of one point I could make if it would further your cause. Every negative emotion has a healthy and an unhealthy version. For example, healthy fear—when you're facing a realistic danger—is not the same as a panic attack or a phobia or social anxiety, etc. Healthy fear, or healthy sadness, and so forth, or not emotional problems needing treatment, but realistic emotions telling us to take action. Sadly, with AI as the latest revolution, lots will change, some good, some bad. And sadly, many will lose their work due to being taken over by AI. Our son, for example, used to get high paid work anytime he wanted in user interface work for companies with prominent web presences. But now AI does all of that, apparently. So, he has to look for something entirely different, and he's tried a lot. With a wife and a baby, the financial issues are real. Now, if someone starts getting overwhelmed by feelings of anxiety, self-criticism, and inadequacy, and hopelessness, that IS something I can help with—big time, Bu the practical problems in finding new and different work will remain even after the person has regained self-esteem and optimism. So sometimes scrambling and being flexible, if possible, and getting coaching with an expert in jobs and career development, perhaps, on what might be practically possible, is called for, and not psychotherapy. I LOVE working with anxiety and can usually guide my patients to extremely rapid recovery, which is tremendously rewarding, for them and for me! But when the problem is real, my expertise does not match the needs. Hope this helps in some small way. Of course, sometimes a good shrink can help with sorting out options in the real world, but that generally requires a different type of specialized training. It is profoundly sad, and we have personally experienced it, that so many people are facing this tragic uncertainty and worry about making ends meet and finding themselves lost due to this overwhelming and unpredictable new revolution. For what it's worth, my book, when Panic Attacks, is a mass market paperback that has helped many anxiety sufferers and illustrate a great many methods. Also, our Feeling Great app is currently free of charge and causes dramatic reductions in anxiety, depression, and a host of other negative emotions in less than 90 minutes the first time people sit down and use it. It actually includes a highly trained AI designed to use the exact methods I use in my work, and our data suggests that it vastly outperforms most human therapists but will probably not replace them because some serious problems require human intervention. Best, david David responds to Megan a bit further Wonderful, I had one or two additional thoughts for you. People faced with layoffs due to AI (or any reason) face two challenges: the inner challenge and the outer challenge. The outer challenge involves finding, of course, some new way to work and support yourself and your family. The inner challenge has to do with your thoughts. One of the Self-Defeating Beliefs behind a great deal of depression and anxiety is the Achievement Addiction, which means measuring your self-worth based on your work, your achievements, and so forth. This goes back to the Calvinist work ethic, as you know, which is one of the cornerstones of western civilization: you ARE what you DO. So if you do good things, you are a good person; but if you are not doing anything productive or constructive, you are worthless. So it is super easy to fall into a pattern of self-critical (and distorted) negative thoughts when you lose your work

The 2025 Feeling Good Podcast Survey Featuring Sevde Kalidiroglu, Director of Marketing, Feeling Great app This is the third survey of our podcast fans since the first podcast was broadcast on October 27, 2016, and the most recent was roughly five years ago. Our awesome Director Marketing at the Feeling Great app conducted the survey and prepared the report which you can review if you CLICK HERE Essentially, we wanted to know a little bit about who you are and why you listen, and what you like the most, and least, and what kinds of changes you'd like to see. 183 of you graciously completed the survey. Thanks! We discussed many of the findings on the podcast, and you can click the link above for the full report, but here are just a few highlights: Roughly 1/4 of you are mental health professionals, and 3/4 are general public. Men and women were represented equally. 60% of you are from the US, and 40% of you are international listeners. The age range is heavily tilted toward the older generation, with 66% of you above 50 years of age, and not a single podcast fan less than 20 years old! And why do you listen? Nearly 90% of you are listening to improve your emotional well-being. This was great to hear, and consistent with the many emails I receive describing the help so many of you have gotten from the podcast. In fact, one recent podcast fan fired their therapist due to lack of progress, having made much more progress from listening to the podcast. Many of you listen in order to learn TEAM CBT techniques, including therapists who want to improve their clinical skills as well as individuals who want to learn techniques they can use in their daily lives. Other reasons for listening include: Improve my own emotional well-being 87.1% Learn therapy techniques 57.9% Learn about mental health topics 53.4% Support friends/family 49.4% Entertainment 20.2%" One respondent wrote: "The podcast helps me apply tools to real-life problems that day—whether loneliness, meaning, or mood swings." If you click on the survey, you'll find a plethora of interesting findings, clearly presented. Rhonda and I are grateful to you, Sevde, for compiling this information, and we are all very grateful to you, our loyal fans, for sticking with us all these years! We will try hard to be mindful of the take-home messages at the end, which included: Key Recommendations 1. Keep Live Therapy and How-To episodes front and center 2. Reduce episode length & polish editing 3. Bridge podcast and app more clearly (especially in the U.S.) 4. Refresh branding and improve accessibility 5. Add diversity in guest speakers and clinical styles 6. Prioritize topics like perfectionism, trauma, resistance, and self-defeating beliefs 7. Keep posting webinar recordings as podcast episodes Thanks for listening today! Sevde, Rhonda, and David

#467 Ask David-- How can I help my elderly, demanding grandma? How can I empathize with hostile political figures? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today's questions. Brittany says that her elderly grandmother has become very needy and demanding, and that her mom finds grandmother's behavior irritating. She wants to know how she can help her mom / grandmom. Jenny asks: How do we empathize with people we are extremely angry with, including prominent political figures? Brittany says that her elderly grandmother has become very needy and demanding, and that her mom finds grandmother's behavior irritating. Brittany wants to know how she can help her mom / grandmom. Hi Dr. Burns, A few months ago my grandma fell down her stairs and broke some ribs. She was in a nursing home for a short while since she needed physical therapy and assistance doing daily tasks. Before the accident, she lived alone and was completely independent. During her recovery, she pretty much had round the clock visitors. More than any other person in the nursing home. My grandma complained constantly and anytime someone would say "you look good" or "you seem to be doing better" she would very quickly respond with how terrible she feels etc. Having listened to your podcast on how to deal with complainers, I could see it was because nobody was acknowledging her feelings. They just wanted to say things to cheer her up. She is now recovered and back home, but she refuses to do things on her own again that she is capable of and the doctor cleared her to do. She has a terrible attitude and is constantly calling up family members and her friends to run errands for her. Example: my mom picked up some lettuce she asked for her. Then my grandma called her friend to go get her one afterwards, saying the one my mom bought was too small. She acts completely ungrateful. She texted me that she has been so lonely with no visitors but then my mom tells me that is not true. That she has had people coming over every day and taking her places. My mom is at her wits end dealing with her demanding attitude and ungratefulness. I know Jill had an example before where her mom was saying how hard things are and nobody is there for her and Jill used the five secrets. This situation feels a little different. How can my mom get her life back and get my grandma to do things on her own again? -Brittany David's reply Hi Brittany, How about including this as another Ask David? One problem, as I see it, is that your mom is not asking David for help. So I could only help you with your response to your mom, acknowledging how difficult things are for her. In other words, use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. Of course, this assumes you want help with your interaction with your mom. It can be hard not to "HELP" when a loved one, like grandma, AND your mom, are suffering and struggling. Sadly, I have learned that trying to help third parties is not satisfying or effective most of the time. But modifying the way I interact with people is almost always helpful. Don't know if this make sense. Certainly we can see what Matt and Rhonda have to add / suggest. Warmly, david Brittany's response to David: Sure, I think it would be a great ask David. I would be interested in your approach if it were my mom asking you for help. What would you tell her and what your five secrets approach might be. -Brittany David's response: I always prefer have a specific example to a hypothetical question. I can only help you with YOUR responses to your mom, or to anyone. Can you give an example of something she has said to you that you want help responding to effectively? Warmly, david Jenny asks: How do we empathize with people we are extremely angry with, including prominent political figures? Dear David and Rhonda, Your session on dealing with cancer was incredibly heart-warming and so compassionate. I will be sharing that with my sister who is in a similar situation and now completely healed from her cancer! My question deals with anger. Many of us are dealing with anger and frustration at our country, president, and White House, who are taking rights away from us that we have earned over the past 80+ years. I find applying your positive ideas about anger to be very helpful: to view anger as having a high moral sense of justice and fairness, and to view frustration as keeping vigilant and to not get discouraged. But I want to investigate further how these anger/frustration ideas can be applied to White Supremacists and Steven Miller. Because when you hear these people talk they are so incredibly angry, and are directing their anger at other people in destructive ways. How could we, if given the opportunity, talk to them and feel empathy with them? Thanks so much, Jenny David's response: If you like, we can include your excellent and highly relevant question in an upcoming Ask

Ask David: Is friendship a basic human need? Lost and alone--What should I do? #466 Ask David: Is friendship a basic human need? Lost and alone—what should I do? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today's questions. Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? Slash says: I'm lost and alone. I really don't know what direction to take in my life. What should I do? Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? Hello Dr. Burns, I have a question that has been pestering me for years. I know you said you don't need romantic love to be happy, but I find it hard to believe that you can be happy alone without any friends. Humans are social creatures and there have been studies that said being alone is equivalent to smoking cigarettes - that's how detrimental it is to your health. Being alone can be very dangerous - that is why solitary confinement is one of the worst punishments given in prisons. Best regards, Zainab David's reply However, the question, as I see it, would be whether adult, or romantic love as you call it, is a want or a need? Do we "need" it to feel happy? What were your happiest moments, between 0 and 100? I have had several incredibly happy moments that did not have anything to do with being loved or not being loved. What, in your opinion, is the maximum happiness possible if you are alone or unloved? What, exactly, is the claim that you are making? Have you ever intentionally spent time alone to check it out? And if, just if, you did not "need" romantic love to feel happy, would you want to know that? Or would you prefer to insist that we "need" love for happiness, even if it isn't true? In my experience working with many patients, the "need" for romantic love can actually be one of the greatest causes of unhappiness, and one of the greatest barriers to love as well! Best, david PS Here's another way to answer the question. What's your definition of "need?" Or, to put it slightly differently, what is it that you think you "need" friendship for? It wouldn't be a cup of coffee at Starbucks, for example, because anyone can walk in and purchase coffee. And you don't need friendship to breathe. Air is free. And also, what, in your opinion, would be the difference between "wanting" friendship and "needing friendship?" Also, what is your definition of "love." Love has many meanings, and is not some precise "thing." It's just a word we use in a great variety of ways. I love blueberry pie, but these days I avoid it because it is quite sweet, and I'm trying to avoid calories. I don't "need" blueberry pie. It's just a "nice to have" every now and then. I promised to include the Pleasure Predicting Sheet in the show notes so you can do the experiment suggested on the podcast. So here it is! Pleasure Predicting Sheet Slash says: I'm lost and alone. I really don't know what direction to take in my life! What should I do? Subject: Feeling Lost Hi Dr. Burns, I wanted to share some mixed feelings with you. Your podcasts and techniques have been very helpful, and I'm truly grateful for the comfort and hope they bring me. I've been a shy, lonely person for most of my life, and only recently have I started to feel a little bit of confidence. Still, I worry a lot—just like my father. It's 4 a.m. as I write this, and I keep asking myself, What should I do with my life? Sometimes I dream about learning music, sometimes I think about getting a job, but whenever I try, my anxiety takes over and I step back. I often see myself as someone carrying many kinds of anxiety—social anxiety, constant worrying, nervousness about driving, blood phobia, and even anxiety that comes out of nowhere. I've also learned from you that hidden emotions can be powerful, and I'm beginning to notice that in myself. Sometimes I go out with my friends, enjoy the moment, and feel lighter. But when I come back and look at my father, my uncle, and my grandfather, I feel a wave of sadness again. My father struggles with anxiety, my uncle (who once lived bold and fearless) now has schizophrenia and cannot work, and my grandfather, at 88 years old, still travels in crowded buses to support the family. Their struggles weigh on my heart, and I often feel I'm not doing anything meaningful in comparison. Sometimes I even find myself seeing you as a grandfather figure, because your words carry so much wisdom and kindness. It feels strange to say, but I really don't know what direction to take in my life. If you could share even a little guidance, I would be deeply grateful. Warmly, Slash David's response We can include this in an Ask David podcast if you like! Please advise. Warmly, david We can use your first name or a fake name, whatever you prefer. Matt, Rhonda, and David

The Music of TEAM-- A Little Different from the Music of REBT! There are many paradoxes in TEAM! That's part of what makes TEAM challenging, but also exciting. Do you know what the plural of paradox is? Paradise! Sometimes, music allows us to "see" or "get" something that pure thinking struggles with. Years ago, followers of the renowned but controversial Dr. Albert Ellis loved singing the famous and outrageous songs written by Dr. Ellis and featuring key ideas in the Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT) he created. They were popular because they captured his core messages, involving low frustration tolerance, whining and complaining, and more. Dr. Ellis wrote the words, and the music came from popular songs familiar to anyone, like Battle Hymn of the Republic, and many others. If you like, you can hear a brief interview with Dr. Ellis, and listen as he discusses the dire "need" for love and sings one of his songs about the need (demand) for love AT THIS LINK Although none of the REBT songs made the top list on the top ten charts, they brought tons of glee to his many fans, especially when the participants at his psychotherapy conferences would sing them together. His humorous music made it a little easier for some of us to recognize the absurdity in the intense "shoulds" we direct against ourselves when we fall short and a world that isn't the way it "should" be, according to our narcissistic rules! Today, we hear some of the music of TEAM CBT which seems to be increasing in popularity recently. However, the themes are quite different from the cutting and sarcastic music of the Albert Ellis era. Instead, they tend to focus on some of the more tender and inspiring messages of TEAM CBT. For example, I've often described a key idea that I learned from my beloved cat, teacher, and friend, Obie: "When you no longer need to be special, the world becomes special." The message focuses on the perfectionism and self-criticism that so many patients and therapists alike indulge in, criticizing themselves mercilessly for every error, failure, and shortcoming, thinking that if they work hard enough, they will achieve something tremendous and attain a lofty status of true "specialness." You will hear the song, "Am I Special?" on today's podcast. The lyrics of "Am I Special?" were written by Angela Poch, the music was written by Shalynn Burton. Angela Poch put together the virtual choir featuring Rachael, Shalynn, Brandon Vance, Eric Burns and Heather Clague. The Acceptance Paradox is at the core of that song and many TEAM CBT techniques—finding joy and enlightenment when you accept your shitty, below average self. And here's the essence of the Acceptance Paradox: When you accept yourself exactly as you are, warts and all, everything suddenly changes. You perceive yourself and your world through new eyes, and you see that everything is actually quite different from the way you thought, and you experience a sense of freedom, liberation, and joy. David Burns, MD This is a paradox because total acceptance and total change appear to be exact opposites! But in fact, their the exact same thing! Along the same lines, the so-called "Great Death" of the "self" is actually the "Great Rebirth," or a great "waking up" from a trance. Much of today's music revolves around those kinds of themes. And some of it focuses on the Five Secrets of Effective Communication and the Disarming Technique, which highlights another key paradox that I call the Law of Opposites: When someone criticizes you with an unfair and untrue criticism, you will the overwhelming urge to argue and defend yourself. If you give in to this urge—and nearly everybody does—you will actually PROVE that the criticism was actually 100% valid, and the critic will continue to attack and criticize you. That's a Paradox! And here's the other side of that paradox: If you immediately, humbly, and genuinely agree with a criticism that sounds unfair and untrue, you will instantly put the lie to it, and the criticism will suddenly realize that the criticism simply isn't true. That's also a Paradox. So much for the background, and some of the philosophy behind the music you'll hear today. First, here are the performers you'll hear in today's podcast, with brief bio sketches: Mark Noble, PhD is a famed neuroscientist and recently certified TEAM CBT coach. Today, he sings three songs with guitar: Placebo, Mind Warp, and Song of My Self. You can contact him at [email protected] Heather Clague, MD is a psychiatrist and Level 5 Advanced Master TEAM therapist practicing in Oakland, California. Heather and her colleague, Brandon Vance, MD, are the originators of the immensely popular Feeling Great and Feeling Great app book clubs. For more information, got to https://www.heatherclaguemd.com. Brandon Vance, MD is also a psychiatrist and Level 4 Master TEAM therapist and song writer practicing in Oakland. For more information, go to https://www.feelinggreattherapycenter.com/br

Hopelessness: A New Approach Featuring Mike Christensen Often, therapists are drawn to become specialists in the very area where they once suffered and felt most vulnerable. In Mike's case, he describes his own feelings of failure, betrayal, bitterness and hopelessness in his early career, and how he found his way to become a star in the TEAM therapy firmament. Today, he describes a breakthrough approach in the treatment of hopelessness as well, based on the A = Assessment of Resistance portion of TEAM. Mike began by saying that treating hopelessness is always a challenge. . . in fact, I can vividly remember when I felt hopeless! And of course, part of the challenge is the fear that hopeless patients may try to take their own lives. This is the "dark side" of clinical practice, and it is not often talked about because of the terror it strikes in the hearts of mental health professionals. Mike started out with a bit of his traumatic personal history. He explained that he once owned and ran a bicycle shop in Canada when he was in his mid- to late-twenties. "There was a fellow businessman in my town who was a bit older than me and somebody I really looked up to. He was successful, had a beautiful family, was well respected in the community and had some wonderful friends. One day I got a phone call from my wife and she said to me: 'Did you hear what happened to John? She went on to tell me that it was shocking and terrible because he was somebody who enjoyed hunting. One day he went out to the family cabin and took his shotgun and took his own life. Mike said that at his funeral, "I can remember it like it was yesterday hearing his daughter's voice when she spoke and those words that she said. "Daddy, why were you so sad?" "A number of years later we had moved on, sold the business and our home and moved to another town to work in an organization supporting people. I had done my degree in theology with focus on youth and counseling and was working with young families. Unfortunately there were some real difficulties in the situation and it did not turn out very well after a little over a year. He felt betrayed, and ended up with no job. He was now in his mid to late-30s, and got a job in a hardware store. "I was really struggling with the sense of confusion, frustration, depression and hopelessness. Even though I had a supportive family, and had been successful in many areas of my life. He recounts, "One day I looked in the mirror and as I was having those thoughts of hopelessness I was reminded of John, my business colleague who had taken his own life 10 years earlier and I thought about my 2 young daughters. I could hear John's daughter's voice: "Daddy why were you so sad" in my head and I thought I have to get some help" "My wife is a nurse and has a very wise family physician, Dr Mariette deBruin, who is incredibly skilled at empathy. Fortunately, she had been at a mental health conference earlier that year and heard this brilliant psychiatrist share a powerful approach to treating depression without medication. That psychiatrist was Dr David Burns. She suggested I get a hold of the book, Feeling Good, and that was the start of my recovery in 2006. I went back to grad school to do my Masters in Counseling Psychology and then attended my first workshop with Dr. Burns in 2009." Looking back, I realized that hopelessness was actually my best friend. I was in a tremendous amount of pain. Here were some of the positives I discovered in my feelings of hopelessness: In my previous work, I'd been hurt badly, stabbed in the back. My hopelessness was my way of punishing the people who'd hurt me. I was saying, "Look at me. I'm a broken shell." I felt like this gave me some value. . . as well as a sense of revenge." I had placed a lot of value in my success in my life, three beautiful kids, and a great athletic career (biking), and my hopelessness protected me from the disappointment of dashed dreams in my new career. I felt I was being realistic. Hopelessness validated how severe my problems were. Hope trivialized it. When I'm working with practicum students or interns that are early in their counseling or therapy career, one of the greatest fears that they have is that one of their clients or patients will take their own life. Sadly, when you go into this line of work the reality is that at some point, someone we work with in some capacity will experience that level of hopelessness and so I have to inform them that "suicide is not if, but when." This is why it's so critical for us to know how to work with it. He explained that "Hopelessness validated how I felt. People were all trying to cheer me up. That's the WORST thing you can do. "My TEAM training was pointing me in the opposite direction. Validating it and acknowledging it took the pressure off of it and began the process of bringing about tremendous relief." We discussed the power and value of Positive Reframing, even with the hopeless patient, as well as the v

Defeat Perfectionism and Discover the Art of Self-Acceptance Part 2 of 2 Last week, we published Part 1 of the two-hour webinar on techniques to defeat perfectionism. This week, in Part 2 you'll learn many powerful methods to crush the distorted thoughts that trigger perfectionism, including Identify the Distortions Explain the Distortions The Externalization of Voices The Acceptance Paradox The Counter-Attack Technique The Feared Fantasy Technique Self-Disclosure Relapse Prevention Training And more! You can take a look at the workshop handout if you CLICK HERE! This live, practical training will equip you with powerful, research-backed techniques to help yourself and your clients transform perfectionism into peace, power, self-acceptance, and emotional freedom, all illustrated with dramatic video clips from an actual TEAM CBT session with a woman struggling mightily from brutal self-criticisms, self-doubt, and sleepless nights, due to the very perfectionism that has catapulted her into an incredible career. Thanks for listening today! And please let us know if you like (or do not care for) these two part-podcasts based on one of my two hour webinars with Dr. Jill Levitt! Jill, David and Rhonda

Defeat Perfectionism and Discover the Art of Self-Acceptance Part 1 of 2 This Is for Everyone--Shrinks AND the General Public! On Wednesday, July 9, 2025, Dr. Jill Levitt and I did a FREE, two-hour webinar on one of the most common causes of stress and feelings of inadequacy--perfectionism. More than 2200 individuals registered, reflecting the widespread interest in this topic. Although perfectionism causes lots of suffering, it's not easy to get rid of this mindset because it can promise and sometimes deliver tremendous benefits, too! Rhonda and I will be presenting this webinar on the podcast in two parts. This week, in Part 1 you'll learn About the many emotional consequences of perfectionism How to identify the perfectionistic beliefs that fuel anxiety, procrastination, and shame How and why these beliefs can trigger immense emotional pain How to use Positive Reframing and the Cost-Benefit Analysis to melt away your resistance to change. You can take a look at the workshop handout if you CLICK HERE! Next week, in Part 2, you'll learn many powerful methods to crush the distorted thoughts that trigger perfectionism, including Identify the Distortions Explain the Distortions The Externalization of Voices The Acceptance Paradox The Counter-Attack Technique The Feared Fantasy Technique Self-Disclosure Relapse Prevention Training And more! This live, practical training will equip you with powerful, research-backed techniques to help yourself and your clients transform perfectionism into peace, power, self-acceptance, and emotional freedom, all illustrated with dramatic video clips from an actual TEAM CBT session with a woman struggling mightily from brutal self-criticisms, self-doubt, and sleepless nights, due to the very perfectionism that has catapulted her into an incredible career. Thanks for listening today! Jill, David and Rhonda

Ask David: How to Stop Giving a Crap Motivating a Procrastinator . . . and More The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today's questions. 1. Chris has a question about Positive Reframing and the Magic Dial. 2. Joe asks: What method would be best to stop giving a crap? 3. Ollie asks: How do you motivate a procrastinating patient to do the hard work of facing the task they've been putting off? 4. Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? 5. Owen also asks: Is it okay to copy the positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant? 1. Chris asks about Positive Reframing and the Magic Dial. Hi David! I'm currently on my third re-read of "Feeling Great" and want to thank you for the positive changes and progress I have experienced in my life as a result of the techniques and information present in the book. My question is, when you use positive reframing, and identify all the advantages of a negative thought, but still decide, "Hey I would still like to reduce my suffering, in spite of all these good things. But I would love to keep the advantages too." Does this mean my conviction for change is not strong enough? Or is this when I should transition to the magic dial technique and try to keep the best of both worlds ? Thank you in advance, Christian David's reply Thanks, do the Magic Dial and you can have it both ways. However, keep this in mind, or perhaps discover it later on. Once you start to challenge your thoughts successfully, and your belief in your negative thoughts diminishes substantially, you may decide to lower your feelings even further, possibly all the way to zero. And at that point, you're probably ready for Relapse Prevention Training as described in the book. The Feeling Great app is free this summer if you're in the US, so that might help you along the trail if needed. Warmly, David Can I use this as an Ask David question on one of our Ask podcasts? d Christian responds Hello David, Thank you for your in depth response, that's really handy. Part of me is really hoping I'll want to lower my ratings even further, but I think as you have outlined many times, honoring my resistance is important if I want to get to that point. It's weird isn't it, I know at an intellectual level I want these things to happen, but at the gut level part of me is still holding on. I would love to use the app, however I'm based in the UK and it isn't available to me, I saw on the FAQ on the website that it may be getting released in other parts of the world soon ? I also hope there will be more and more TEAM-CBT therapists available in the UK in future too ! Absolutely, I would love for my question to be featured in the podcast ! Warm Regards, Christian 2. Joe asks: What method would be best to stop giving a crap? Hey Dr. Burns, Your two most recent webinars have been very helpful, especially Overcoming Perfectionism, yet I still struggle hard with perfectionism. [To be specific, I put a video out there that people enjoyed (internally) and that I spent a month on, only to get mostly ignored, and I feel defeated.] What method would be best to stop giving a crap? Thanks! Joe David's Reply As I have said so often, I don't recommend "methods" for "problems." I use TEAM, a process. I sometimes have the same problem with media interviews. I am often asked to give three tips on this or that problem, like gaining self-esteem or whatever. For example, a Chinese interviewer asked for "tips" on overcoming depression, like spending more time in nature or more time with friends and the people you care about. I am not happy about such questions, as my answer is that I'm a no tips please type of guy. I have developed many powerful processes for dealing with a variety of common problems. For example, for individual mood problems I find it extremely useful to start out with a partially completed Daily Mood Log, and for a relationship problem a partially completed Relationship Journal can lead to some fantastic and revealing work. But as far as general "tips" for not "giving a crap" if you're struggling with perfectionism, I can only quote what the Buddha said nearly 2,500 years ago: "General tips suck! Give me something specific and real, please!" Best, david 3. How can you motivate someone who procrastinates? Dear David, I have a question but first I'd like to tell you and the team just how much I'm loving the app. Especially since you gave the AI a voice so now we can speak with it rather than typing out responses. Now it feels so quick and easy. Sometimes, I find it can be hard to motivate myself to do the self-help work but talking to the app makes the process effortless. It really does feel like having a friend who's got your best interest at heart, and they're available to talk to you whenever you need them. My question is about the role of therapists when it comes to patient motivation. I was hoping

Ask David-- The Fear of Happiness! Although we had five questions for today's Ask David episode, we spend the entire podcast on the first question from a man with an intense fear of happiness. He wrote: How can I use exposure to overcome my fear of happiness? Hi David, How would you do exposure for the fear of happiness? Whenever I feel happy I immediately feel afraid because I had a very strict religious upbringing where many harmless forms of fun and enjoyment were completely forbidden. Even though I'm no longer a religious believer, the fear remains. Feeling good then makes me afraid, anxious and insomniac. This often goes on for days after something good happens and it almost seems as if I AM being punished after all! How can I recover when feeling good makes me feel so bad? Love your work and all that you do. Best regards, Tomas David's reply As I have said on numerous occasions, I do NOT recommend "methods" (like exposure) for "problems" (like your "fear of happiness.") I think your problem is very treatable, but I work with patients systematically, and that doesn't mean starting out with a "method," like exposure or any other method. I use a step by step approach, using T = Testing, E – Empathy, A = Assessment of Resistance, and M = Methods in a sequence. In addition, when I work with anxiety, I always incorporate these four approaches with every patient I work with: The Motivational Model: I bring Outcome and Process Resistance to conscious awareness and melt them away, if possible, using a variety of TEAM CBT approaches. The Cognitive Model: This involves a well-done Daily Mood Log to identify and challenge the distorted negative thoughts at one moment in time. The Exposure Model: Facing your fears, or testing them with an experiment. This is frightening, but required of every anxious patient. The Hidden Emotion Model: This is based on the idea that only "nice" people struggle with anxiety, with only a few exceptions, and that an unacknowledged problem is often hiding right behind the anxiety. The cure requires the Detective Step: identifying what the hidden emotion or feeling is. The Action Step: Expressing the suppressed feeling and or dealing with the problem you are avoiding. Your fear of happiness is an interesting problem for sure. One of my favorite movies, "Babette's Feast," involves this theme. If you want some help, you could send me a partially completed Daily Mood Log. You will discover that you are the only one who is doing the punishing! It is that belittling, intimidating voice in your own head that is causing 100% of your suffering. I look forward to helping you challenge those voices! In the meantime, I'll add this to the latest Ask David podcast questions, in the hopes you might send the DML, and then Rhonda and I can comment in greater depth on the live program. Best, david Tomas kindly sent a Daily Mood Log, which you can see if you CLICK HERE As you can see, the Upsetting Event is simply "studying mathematics," something he loves. However, he has the belief that if he allows himself to enjoy this or any activity, something terrible will happen to him. He traces this to a strict religious upbringing, and perhaps also to bullying he endured as a kid. You can see that this is intensely upsetting to him. If you look you will see that in 8 of the 9 categories of emotions on his Daily Mood Log (DML), he scores in the range of 80 to 100, which is intense and severe to extreme. The only emotion category that is not extremely elevated is the anger cluster, which he rated at only 40. You can see as well that his negative thoughts all involve the theme of punishment and destruction if he allows himself to feel happiness and enjoyment of life, or if he advances himself in life. In some of the emails he sent me, he traces this back to being bullied when young. . . possibly by kids who were jealous of his high IQ. As mentioned above, I don't throw methods (like exposure) at people based on a problem or diagnosis (in his case a phobia, the fear of happiness.) I also mentioned that I go through the T E A M model in a sequence, starting with Testing and Empathy, followed by the Assessment of Resistance and culminating in Methods. In addition, I always treat anxious patients with four powerful models, including the Motivational Model, the Cognitive Model, the Exposure Model, and the Hidden Emotion Model. I described these models above. The Motivational Model The Outcome Resistance has to do with the fact that Tomas may resist treatment because of his fear of the consequences of successfully achieving happiness. We will deal with that with Positive Reframing, including the Miracle Cure Question, the Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and the Magic Dial. In addition, we'll have to deal with Process Resistance. At some point, we will have to use exposure techniques, and we will want to find out if he's WILLING to do exposure even though it may be extremely anxiety provoking at first. We can dangle t