Discourse in Magic

In this special episode, Jonah Babins shares a “meaty” excerpt from his recent business lecture delivered to the Chicago Magic Round Table. Recorded while Jonah was in the midst of a residency at the Chicago Magic Lounge (654 Club), this session skips the tricks and goes straight to the systems that allow a performer to scale from a hobbyist to a high-earning professional. Jonah breaks down the exact philosophy they use at the Toronto Magic Company. While the full lecture covers everything from t-shirts to thumb tips, this episode focuses on the “engine” of your business: how you handle leads, how you optimize your time, and when it’s finally time to ditch the spreadsheet for something more powerful. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Chicago Residency: Jonah’s experience performing close-up in the legendary 654 Club and the unique energy of the Chicago magic scene. Systems vs. Software: Why you shouldn’t buy a CRM until your current system is “breaking” from too much success. The “Fast Talker” Philosophy: Why Jonah pushes the pace during business lectures and how to absorb high-level strategy without getting overwhelmed. Lead Management: The transition from manual copy-pasting to automated forms and why efficiency is the ultimate competitive advantage. AI in Magic: Why Claude has become an indispensable “coworker” for drafting copy, organizing ideas, and managing the backend of a magic brand. Key Pillars of the Lecture Identifying the “Break” Point Jonah discusses a common trap: magicians buying expensive software to solve problems they don’t have yet. He argues that you only need a system when you are getting so many leads that a simple spreadsheet is no longer manageable. Systems should be the solution to your growth, not a distraction from it. Continuous Optimization The secret to the Toronto Magic Company’s success isn’t one big secret—it’s a thousand small optimizations. Jonah explains the importance of looking at every step of your booking process and asking, “How can this be 1% better?” Leveraging Modern Tools From using AI like Claude for business heavy-lifting to utilizing automation for client inquiries, Jonah highlights how modern tech allows a solo performer to operate with the professionalism of a much larger agency. Mentions & Links The Chicago Magic Lounge: A world-class venue and home to the Chicago Magic Round Table. Claude: Jonah’s recommended AI tool for business efficiency. Lecture Inquiries: If you want Jonah and Ben to bring this lecture (including the tricks!) to your club or convention, email [email protected]. Follow Jonah: Find tips and business advice on Instagram @discourseinmagic. Ready to bring Jonah to your city? If you’re part of a magic club or convention and want to learn the full business and performance system, reach out via email. Whether it’s a digital deep dive or an in-person workshop, let’s get your magic business scaling.

This week, Discourse in Magic looks a little different. Instead of Jonah interviewing a guest, we’re sharing an episode where the tables were turned. Jonah recently sat down with Josh Norbido and Nick Kay—better known as The Magic Guys—on their popular Australian-based livestream and podcast. The Magic Guys actually “robbed” Jonah of the FSM Award for top Magic Podcast this year, but there are no hard feelings here. Their show is famous for its high energy, active YouTube community, and hilarious banter, making this one of the most engaging “crossover” episodes yet. In this session, Josh and Nick grill Jonah on the inner workings of his business, his performance schedule, and his philosophy on growth. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Toronto Magic Company Story: How Jonah built a brand that doesn’t just book him, but manages a roster of talent across the city. The FSM Rivalry: A behind-the-scenes look at the friendly competition between the top magic podcasts in the industry. The “Anti-Budget” Strategy: Why Jonah believes asking a client “What is your budget?” is one of the biggest mistakes you can make on a sales call. Managing a Roster: The logistics and ethics of taking a cut from other magicians’ gigs and how to provide enough value to make it a win-win. The Power of Community: How The Magic Guys built a “fitspo” for magicians through livestreaming and Discord interactions. Key Pillars of the Discussion The Business of Management Jonah dives deep into how the Toronto Magic Company operates. He explains the transition from being a solo performer to building a brand that clients trust, allowing him to book other magicians and take a management fee while ensuring the quality of the show remains high. The Perfect Sales Approach During the “grilling” session, Jonah shares one of his most important pieces of business advice: stop leading with budget. He argues that by focusing on the value and the specific needs of the event first, you position yourself as an expert rather than a commodity. Content and Coaching Jonah discusses his recent shift toward heavy Instagram content and his Magic Business Mastermind, where he helps performers scale from five figures to six figures and beyond. Mentions & Links Follow The Magic Guys: Check out Josh Norbido and Nick Kay on YouTube and their podcast. Toronto Magic Company: Learn more about Jonah’s local management brand. FSM Awards: The annual awards recognizing excellence in magic media. The Mastermind: Message Jonah the word “SALES” on Instagram @discourseinmagic to get details on his upcoming workshop. Ready to stop asking about budgets and start closing bigger gigs? If you enjoyed this deep dive into the business side of magic, make sure to follow the newsletter for tips sent out three times a week.

In this episode, Jonah Babins breaks down a critical mistake magicians make when a lead finally lands in their inbox: treating the sales call like a logistics checklist. While knowing the venue and guest count is important, a truly professional sales call does something much deeper. Jonah explores how the right questions don’t just give you information—they prove your expertise and give you the exact language you need to close the gig. Whether you’re performing at high-end weddings or corporate holiday parties, the strategy remains the same: stop asking about logistics and start asking about the experience. Jonah shares two specific “power questions” that shift the dynamic from being a vendor to being a consultant. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The 10,000-Foot View: The ideal structure of a sales call, from discovery questions to the final close. The Language Mirror: Why asking the right questions gives you the “tools” to explain your magic using the client’s own goals (like “breaking the ice”). The “Pro” Signal: How specific, market-driven questions (like asking a camp director about “evening programs”) prove you have experience without you ever having to brag. The Wedding Hack: The one question about family photos that creates a “private magic moment” for the couple and solves a major wedding planning oversight. The Corporate “Plus-One” Strategy: How to use the presence of spouses to position your magic as a relationship-building tool rather than just “entertainment”. Two Examples of “Pro” Questions Jonah illustrates the power of high-level questioning through two common scenarios: The Wedding Question: Ask if the couple will be away taking photos during the cocktail hour. This identifies a problem: they are paying for magic they won’t see. By offering a private, five-minute routine for just the two of them and their content team, you provide massive value and a lifetime of memories. The Corporate Question: Ask if plus-ones are invited to the holiday party. This allows you to explain the “babysitting” problem—where employees spend the whole night making sure their partner isn’t lonely instead of mingling. You can then position your mingling magic as the solution that builds those early relationships and keeps guests from leaving the moment dessert is done. Mentions & Links Register for the Workshop: Jonah is hosting a deep-dive workshop on Thursday the 19th all about the Perfect Sales Call. Sign Up Here:https://discourseinmagic.com/salescall/ Follow Jonah on Instagram: @discourseinmagic. Ready to get more “Yes” answers and higher fees? If you want to stop winging your sales calls and start closing with confidence, join Jonah for the upcoming workshop. No cold calling, no strangers—just a system for when people inquire to work with you.

In this solo episode, Jonah Babins pulls back the curtain on the eight-month hiatus of Discourse in Magic. Since August 2025, the podcast feed has been quiet, leading many listeners to reach out and check-in. Today, Jonah is back to explain his disappearance, share a major business epiphany from his recent travels, and lay out the future of the show. The truth is, Jonah hasn’t been resting; he’s been on a whirlwind journey across the globe. From Auckland to Melbourne, and Pennsylvania to Denver, Jonah has been physically traveling to visit members of his Magic Business Mastermind. He shares the “insane” rule he follows: when a magician has worked with him for 18 months, he flies out to see them on his own dime. This commitment, combined with a heavy November/December gigging season, made recording high-quality episodes nearly impossible—until now. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Travel Log: Why Jonah spent 30 of the first 45 days of 2026 on the road and what it’s like managing a 60-person mastermind while remaining a full-time performer. The Australia Epiphany: How being in a completely different time zone forced Jonah to embrace asynchronous work and delegation. Content vs. Systems: Why Jonah is moving away from the “hamster wheel” of social media content and toward lead generation that doesn’t require daily manual output. The “Easy” Question: Inspired by Tim Ferriss, Jonah asks: “What would this look like if it were easy?” and applies it to your magic bookings. The Viral Trap: The reality of getting 3.4 million views on a Reel and why it resulted in zero inquiries and one death threat. Lead Gen: Stop Dancing, Start Scaling Jonah breaks down the major difference between Daily Output lead gen and Systematic lead gen: The Content Trap: Posting 3+ times a day is a full-time job. Unless you love shooting and editing, it might not be the best use of your time as a magician. The Evergreen Power of SEO: A single well-written blog post can rank for years, providing value long after an Instagram post has disappeared from the feed. Automation: How tools like ads and cold email software allow you to “press play” and generate leads while you focus on your craft. Mentions & Links Follow Jonah on Instagram: @discourseinmagic for daily tips and reels. The Newsletter: Join the community to get deep-dive emails several times a week. Recommended Reading: The 4-Hour Workweek (or any works) by Tim Ferriss. See Jonah Live: performing at the Chicago Magic Lounge (654 Club) this March. Ready to grow your magic business the “Easy Way”? If you want to scale your business from five to six figures without dancing on TikTok, DM Jonah the word “SCALE” on Instagram.

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins dives into a powerful concept from his mastermind sessions: Weaponizing Your Show. The idea is simple—make your show book you more shows. Beyond just delivering a strong performance, Jonah shares five practical tactics to turn every gig into a referral engine, rebooking machine, and review generator. If you want your performances to create momentum in your business, this episode is packed with actionable advice you can implement right away. Mention What You Do Onstage Audiences rarely know whether magic is your hobby or your full-time career. Jonah explains how to weave subtle references into your script that signal where and who you perform for—whether it’s weddings, corporate events, or private parties. This small tweak sparks ideas in your audience about where else they could hire you. Use Humor to Get Reviews Getting reviews can feel awkward—unless you make it part of your act. Jonah shares the exact joke he uses at every show that gets laughs while nudging audience members to leave five-star reviews. It’s a simple, repeatable way to boost your credibility without being pushy. Don’t Run Out After the Show Your performance isn’t over when you step off stage. Jonah stresses the importance of staying behind to thank volunteers, mingle, and even do a bonus trick or two. Building connections in those moments can turn casual spectators into future bookers. Master the Business Card Swap When someone asks for your card, don’t just hand it over—swap. Jonah breaks down how to use these interactions to capture leads, follow up, and move people into your sales funnel. It’s a small shift that ensures opportunities don’t slip away. Be Easy to Remember Even great magicians get forgotten if their brand isn’t sticky. Jonah explores the importance of simple names, clear visuals, and consistent branding to make sure you’re memorable long after the show is done. Because if they can’t remember your name, they can’t rebook you. Mentions Toronto Magic Company Weaponize Your Show Mastermind Session Bill Herz (corporate magic insights) David Gerard Bill Malone

In this solo episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins shares his raw and honest reflections on FISM 2025. From mind-blowing performances to marathon-length competitions, Jonah walks through the highs and lows of the world’s biggest and most prestigious magic convention and competition. Whether you attended or are just curious about how FISM functions, this episode offers a candid inside look. Highlights from the World Stage Jonah opens with praise for the best of the best—performers whose acts left audiences stunned. Standout mentions include Michael Bloke’s clever creativity, the astonishing coding mentalism of Mind to Mind, Billy’s inventive routine, Morton Christensen’s consistent excellence, and the shockingly fresh linking ring act by Juan Klos. But it was quick-change artist Leah Kyle who stole the show with a jaw-dropping act that received standing ovations and, in Jonah’s view, deserved the Grand Prix. The Long Haul of Competition Despite the brilliance at the top, Jonah critiques the structure of FISM’s competition. With hours upon hours of performances—many of which don’t meet the bar—he argues for stricter qualification rounds to cut down the sheer volume. Watching 150+ acts over several days becomes grueling, and Jonah suggests FISM should focus on quality over quantity to make the experience more enjoyable and less exhausting. What FISM Got Right (and Wrong) From disappointing gala shows to overlooked online categories, Jonah points out organizational missteps. The new Online Magic Awards, though a great idea, felt like an afterthought—barely acknowledged during the ceremony and judged with outdated criteria. He also calls for a more thoughtful schedule, noting the chaos of overlapping events, midnight galas, and 9 a.m. lectures. And as for the judging? Let the crowd reactions count—because Leah Kyle not winning still feels like a snub. Mentions FISM (Fédération Internationale des Sociétés Magiques)

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah sits down with Jamie Allan, a pioneering illusionist and producer known for blending large-scale magic with theatrical storytelling. From growing up in a showbiz family in the UK to launching Broadway-scale productions in New York, Jamie shares the ups and downs of his journey—offering invaluable lessons about reinvention, creative resilience, and staying authentic in a world of illusions. From Red Coats to Broadway Jamie traces his early days performing in holiday parks and on cruise ships, where he learned to love the stage and reject the grind of close-up gigs. His breakout moment came with I Magician, a tech-themed stage show that earned critical and commercial success in the UK and US. Jamie shares how learning from the financial and marketing failures of Houdini: The Musical helped him pivot to a more sustainable, scalable model for touring magic. Innovation, Failure, and the COVID Pivot When the pandemic hit, Jamie didn’t wait. He transformed canceled plans into a new immersive magic experience called Illusionarium in Toronto—an ambitious, multi-room journey through the history of magic. Jamie reflects on the logistical chaos, creative breakthroughs, and the emotional impact of creating live work at a time when theaters were dark. Later, he reimagined the project as Magic Immersive in Chicago, which found its stride as a tightly run, high-energy spectacle. Amaze, Broadway, and the Future of Illusions Jamie talks about his current off-Broadway show Amaze, a deeply personal and theatrical production blending storytelling with illusion. Unlike the days of dance tracks and unexplained boxes, Amaze uses magic to serve the story and aims to leave audiences feeling something more than just fooled. He shares why illusions might be making a comeback and why today’s magicians need to lead with honesty, passion, and presence on stage. The Endless Chain Jamie Allan recommends Tom Crosbie as the next guest for Discourse in Magic. Mentions Jamie Allan’s Amaze in NYC Illusionarium (Toronto immersive experience) Magic Immersive (Chicago)

Jonah sits down with viral magician Xavier Mortimer to trace an unlikely journey—from learning back‑and‑front palming out of a gas‑station booklet to topping “Best Family‑Friendly Show” lists on the Las Vegas Strip and amassing billions of social‑video views. Along the way they dig into creative misfires, the treadmill of nightly shows, and why rehearsing a TikTok illusion can cost $20 K. From Gas‑Station Book to Barn‑Built Show Xavier’s origin story starts with a coincidence: his father picked up a sleight‑of‑hand booklet as a fuel‑pump freebie. Two weeks of rural vacation later, 15‑year‑old Xavier had mastered back‑ and front‑palming and was staging dorm‑room shows. Community magic clubs, antique‑store books and mail‑order tricks (that took days to arrive) filled the gap left by pre‑YouTube France. When a Paris producer spotted a 25‑minute mime‑magic set he’d built in a friend’s barn, she booked him into a Paris theatre—forcing him to create a full, story‑driven “Shadow Orchestra” show in just three months. Vegas Lessons—Freedom Comes at a Cost After three years and 10 shows a week in Michael Jackson ONE with Cirque du Soleil, Xavier traded security for his own 200‑seat Vegas residency. He quickly learned the hidden grind: schmoozing ticket brokers, delivering doughnuts to kiosk staff and covering ad, room‑rental and tax bills that swallowed profits. Creative course‑correction was constant—he tried to “Americanize” the material, then pivoted back toward the whimsical, word‑light style that first set him apart. Engineering Viral Wonder Today Xavier treats each short‑form video like a mini‑blockbuster: weeks of ideation with consultants, rehearsing gimmicks ten times on set, hiring multiple groups of spectators and shooting with three cameras to capture a genuine first‑take reaction—or scrapping it entirely if the magic falls flat. Budgets range from $1 K Instagram clips to $30 K YouTube epics, yet he still refuses reveals or CGI. The goal: craft visuals that will “age well,” just as TV magicians once did for a previous generation. Endless Chain Cyril Takayama – the street‑magic pioneer whose blend of cinematic visuals and live reactions inspired Xavier. Jonah, Xavier can connect you. Mentions Xavier Mortimer – https://www.xaviermortimer.com Michael Jackson ONE, Cirque du Soleil – https://www.cirquedusoleil.com/michael-jackson-one David Williamson – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williamson_(magician) MrBeast – https://www.youtube.com/@MrBeast Airrack – https://www.youtube.com/@Airrack

In this episode, Jonah Babins is joined by rising UK magic star Luke Oseland to explore a journey that spans from toy magic sets and teenage tinkering to Fringe Festival sellouts and cruise ship stints. From co-creating Insane Magic to redefining how young magicians build their brands, Luke shares the behind-the-scenes of developing shows, finding your performance voice, and building a magic career from scratch. You’ll learn how to structure a magic show, when to take creative risks, and why sometimes the best marketing strategy is just putting on a killer show. How Luke Got Started in Magic Luke’s magic journey began like many—with a gift from his grandparents. But instead of fading interest, his obsession grew. He found early inspiration in televised magic like Penn & Teller: Fool Us and Dynamo, and later deepened his craft through the Young Magicians Club in London, a standout space for aspiring performers under 18. After aging out, he transitioned directly into the Magic Circle and began exploring his path as a creator, consultant, and eventually a performer. From Creator to Performer Luke initially leaned into the behind-the-scenes world of magic—creating, consulting, and selling effects—before realizing, at around age 19, that performing could be just as fulfilling. His move to Edinburgh was pivotal: by immersing himself in the city’s vibrant arts scene, he began gigging in clubs and bars, testing material at stand-up nights, and ultimately launching full productions at the Edinburgh Fringe. Building Magic Shows that Work Luke breaks down the process of creating shows like Drunk Magic, The Magic Hangover, and the crowd-favorite Insane Magic (with Cameron Gibson and Elliot Bibby). His philosophy is simple: start with great magic and let the narrative emerge naturally. While some magicians obsess over crafting a poetic through-line, Luke suggests focusing on structure, pacing, and audience experience—advice rooted in trial, error, and over 80 shows per month during the Fringe. Writing with a Team and Making It Work Collaborating on a show with two other magicians might sound like a nightmare, but Luke offers insights on how Insane Magic became a creative success. With clear roles, shared strengths (and occasional arguments), the team managed to build one of the most entertaining magic experiences on the Fringe circuit. From using Google Docs to obsessively fine-tuning one joke for 40 minutes, the process is messy—but worth it. Magic Clubs Done Right Unlike many North American magic clubs (which Luke and Jonah agree are often outdated), Luke shares how the Edinburgh Magic Circle is building a model for what community magic clubs should look like: young, vibrant, collaborative, and egoless. With guest lecturers like Michael Ammar and a casual pub-based meetup format, the club plays a crucial role in fostering a healthier, more progressive magic community. Fringe Economics and the Business of Performing Luke pulls back the curtain on what it really takes to succeed at the Edinburgh Fringe—from how much money you can make (or lose) to what types of performers benefit most. Whether you’re refining material, building a brand, or chasing cruise contracts, Luke makes a compelling case for why Fringe festivals—when approached strategically—are still one of the best opportunities in magic. Why Magicians Need to Be More Original Luke shares strong views on creativity in magic, including his frustration with magicians lifting material from Instagram clips or assuming every trick should be for sale. While he’s realistic about commercial magic’s role, he calls for more originality, especially among pros, and offers a passionate defense of creating magic that truly belongs to you. Endless Chain At the end of the episode, Luke recommends magician and consultant Harry De Cruz as a future guest. Known for his work with Dynamo and his role in revitalizing the Young Magicians Club, Harry brings a modern voice to the evolving magic landscape. Mentions Luke Oselan’s Instagram (@lukeosey) Insane Magic with Elliot Bibby and Cameron Gibson The Edinburgh Magic Circle The Magic Hangover (new 2025 Fringe show)

In this week’s episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins returns with a behind-the-scenes look at the Mexico Mastermind Summit, his latest adventures in AI, and what’s next for the magic community. After a brief hiatus, Jonah shares the lessons, breakthroughs, and future plans that are shaping his approach to magic and business in 2024. The Summit Experience: Magic, Community, and Growth Jonah kicks things off by recapping the recent Mastermind Summit in Cancun, where 40 magicians gathered for a week of learning, jamming, and business breakthroughs. Unlike traditional conventions, this summit focused on real-world magic—sharing “bangers” (the best tricks magicians actually perform), everyday carry routines, and even a spontaneous show where names were drawn from a sombrero. But the real value, Jonah explains, came from the community: magicians supporting each other, sharing feedback, and pushing each other to new heights. Whether you’re a seasoned pro or just starting out, Jonah emphasizes that surrounding yourself with a group of like-minded performers is the fastest way to grow. Three Big Lessons from the Summit Jonah distills his experience into three key takeaways: AI is Essential for Magicians The most popular session at the summit was all about using AI to supercharge your magic business. Jonah created custom GPTs to help magicians write viral posts and craft messages for clients—tools that attendees could use and implement on the spot. His message: AI isn’t just a trend, it’s a must-have skill for magicians who want to stay ahead. Magic Itself Needs More Focus While business skills are crucial, Jonah realized that magic—the craft itself—can’t be neglected. The Mastermind is now doubling down on helping members improve their performances, not just their marketing. From joke writing to effect selection and stage presence, the goal is to help every magician become legendary, not just successful. Community is Everything The biggest breakthrough? The power of working together. Whether it’s the Mastermind or your own circle of trusted friends, having a support system accelerates growth and makes the journey more fun. Jonah encourages listeners to find their own “band of magicians” if the Mastermind isn’t the right fit. Actionable AI Tips for Magicians Jonah shares his top strategies for making AI work for you: Use AI Every Day: Set your browser to open ChatGPT or your favorite AI tool by default. Better Prompts, Better Results: Use the “Role, Request, Context, Format” method to get more useful responses from AI. Teach AI About You: Take advantage of memory, custom instructions, and custom GPTs to personalize your AI’s output. Stay Ahead of the Curve: As AI changes how people find and book magicians, building a strong brand and community is more important than ever. Where to Find Jonah This Summer Jonah is hitting the road! If you’re in LA (May 27–30), Chicago (June 8–11), Philly (June 23–26), Mentions Follow Jonah on Instagram: @discourseinmagic Email Jonah: [email protected] Previous episode with David Gerard on the power of a creative circle. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode! What’s your biggest takeaway from the summit, or your favorite AI tip? Share your thoughts in the comments or on social media, and let’s keep growing together. Be sure to subscribe to Discourse in Magic for more insights, tips, and strategies to elevate your magic business.  

In this episode, Jonah Babins is joined by corporate magic legend Bill Herz to unpack a career that spans summer camps, corporate boardrooms, and headline features in The Wall Street Journal. From his early days performing with Paul Cummins to founding Magicorp and representing world-class talent, Bill shares the highs, the hustle, and the hilarious behind-the-scenes of building a career in corporate magic. You’ll learn what makes a magician bookable, how to navigate pricing, and why a magician’s greatest asset might be understanding the client better than they understand themselves. How Bill Got Started in Magic Like many magicians, Bill’s journey began with a magic set at eight years old. But what set him apart was a unique blend of showmanship, business sense, and a willingness to perform for anyone, anywhere—from birthday parties to summer camps and community centers. The Creation of Magicorp What started with teaching a CEO one simple trick became a revolutionary corporate entertainment concept. Bill realized the power of using magic as a tool in business communication, eventually founding Magicorp to help executives shine and manage bookings for the best in the industry. What Makes a Magician Corporate-Ready Bill breaks down what he looks for in the performers he books—hint: it’s more than a good show. From being able to describe what makes you different in one sentence, to being professional, personable, and ego-free, he outlines the traits that help magicians thrive in the corporate world. Understanding Your Value and Pricing Pricing is more than picking a number—it’s about asking the right questions and understanding what the client needs. Bill shares how he approaches pricing based on value, logistics, and market perception, and why being flexible (but smart) is essential to getting booked and respected. Social Media, Managers, and Magician Mistakes Bill doesn’t hold back when talking about magicians on social media and their obsession with “busy bragging.” He also dives into why having a manager or being repped by a big agency can sometimes hurt more than help—and how magicians can avoid sabotaging their own careers. Endless Chain At the end of the episode, Bill recommends magician Derek Hughes as a future guest. A brilliant performer and a friend of Bill’s, Derek brings a unique blend of comedy and magic that works exceptionally well in the corporate space. Mentions Bill Herz’s Website Magicorp – Corporate Magic Booking Agency David Copperfield Mac King Ben Seidman Colin Cloud  

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins sits down with magician, circus performer, and entertainer Leah Orleans to discuss her unique journey in magic, her experiences blending circus arts with illusion, and how she pushes the boundaries of traditional performance. Leah shares insights into how she found her place in the magic world, her approach to creating engaging and original performances, and the lessons she’s learned along the way. Finding Magic in the Circus Leah’s entry into the world of magic was anything but conventional. She started as a circus performer, mastering aerial arts, juggling, and acrobatics before discovering how magic could enhance her performances. Her background in physical theater and movement helped her develop a distinctive performance style that captivates audiences in a way few traditional magicians can. Standing Out in a Male-Dominated Industry As a female performer in both circus and magic, Leah has navigated challenges and misconceptions while forging her own path. She discusses the importance of representation, the struggles of being underestimated, and how she has turned those obstacles into strengths. By bringing a fresh perspective and a multidisciplinary approach to her craft, she continues to inspire others to think outside the box. Creating Unique and Immersive Experiences Leah shares her process for designing routines that seamlessly blend magic with circus arts. From crafting new illusions to reimagining classic tricks, she explains how movement and storytelling play a crucial role in her work. She also dives into the creative risks she takes to ensure each performance is not only visually stunning but also deeply engaging for her audiences. Advice for Performers and Magicians For those looking to break into the world of performance, Leah offers practical advice on developing a distinct style, building confidence on stage, and continuously refining one’s craft. She emphasizes the importance of perseverance, experimentation, and finding one’s unique voice in an industry that often leans toward tradition. Endless Chain April Jennifer Choi Where to Find Leah Orleans To learn more about Leah Orleans, her performances, and upcoming projects, follow her on social media and check out her website: Website: Leah Orleans’ Website Instagram: @LeahOrleans Facebook: Leah Orleans Magic & Circus

This week on Discourse in Magic, we’re bringing you a special repost of Jonah Babins’ appearance on the Penguin Magic Podcast, hosted by Erik Tait. Jonah, the long-time host of Discourse in Magic, takes the guest seat and shares insights on the world of magic, business, and podcasting. How Jonah Built Discourse in Magic Jonah shares the journey of how Discourse in Magic has grown over the years. He discusses the evolution of the show, the challenges of maintaining a podcast in the magic space, and what has kept him going for nearly a decade. Jonah explains his strategy for selecting guests, emphasizing the importance of personal interest. He shares how being genuinely curious about a guest’s work leads to more engaging and meaningful conversations. The Evolution of His Magic Career Jonah reflects on how his interests have changed over time. While Discourse in Magic initially focused on deep philosophical discussions, his passion has shifted toward the practical aspects of magic, especially business growth and performance. Jonah shares insights into his Mastermind program, where he helps magicians grow their businesses. He talks about the structure of the program, its benefits, and the transformative results that many of his students have experienced. The Three Key Pillars of a Successful Magic Business Jonah breaks down the fundamental elements necessary to build a thriving magic business. He details how generating leads, improving sales techniques, and optimizing business systems can help magicians increase their income and efficiency. Jonah emphasizes the power of having a supportive network. He explains how magicians in his Mastermind program benefit from shared knowledge, accountability, and expert guidance to help them achieve their business goals. Mentions Jonah’s Magic Business Coaching Discourse in Magic Instagram Vote for Jonah in the FM Magic Podcast Awards Enjoy the episode and don’t forget to subscribe for more deep dives into the art and business of magic!

In this solo episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins dives into the world of public shows, sharing his insights on why every magician should consider doing them. He also provides a sneak peek into his upcoming shows across North America and highlights a special event happening at the end of April. Why Do Public Shows? Promo Material: Public shows are an excellent opportunity to get high-quality promotional material. By hiring a photographer or videographer, you can capture footage of your performance that can be used to market yourself and book more gigs in the future. Friends and Family: Public shows provide a chance for your friends and family to see you perform. They are your biggest supporters, and this is a great way for them to experience your magic without the high cost of private or corporate events. Client Engagement: Offering free tickets to past and potential clients is a fantastic way to maintain relationships and generate new business. It gives you a reason to reach out and offer something valuable, which can lead to future bookings. Upcoming Shows Jonah shares his tour dates and locations for the next two months: – March 6th: Boston, performing at the Boston Magic Lab. – March 7th-9th: Connecticut, performing and lecturing at Mcon. – March 18th-20th: Austin, Texas, performing a show with Michael Rogerson. – March 25th-28th: Montreal, performing a show with John Elli. – April 8th-11th: St. Louis, performing a show with Josh Weidener. – April 28th-May 2nd: L Summit in Mexico, a special event for Mastermind members. Mentions Boston Magic Lab Michael Rogerson John Elli Josh Weidener Toronto Magic Company  

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins sits down with Jonathan Levit to discuss his multifaceted career in the entertainment industry, from acting and hosting to creating innovative magic tricks and apps. Jonathan shares his journey, insights, and the magic behind his successful projects, including his Vegas show and The Stranger app. Early Magic Journey Jonathan discusses how he discovered magic through his father’s props and the magical community in St. Louis that shaped his early years. He reflects on the importance of mentorship and friendships in his development as a magician. Acting and Hosting Career Jonathan talks about his transition to acting and hosting in Los Angeles, sharing the challenges and rewards of working in front of the camera. He emphasizes the skills he gained from acting and hosting that have enhanced his magic performances. Consulting on Films Jonathan recounts his experience consulting on films like “The Incredible Burt Wonderstone,” working with actors like Steve Carell and Jim Carrey. He shares memorable moments from the set and the unique challenges of bringing magic to the big screen. Vegas Show Jonathan provides insights into his current show at the Venetian in Las Vegas, describing its intimate and theatrical format. He discusses the journey of getting the show to Vegas and the dynamics of running a successful production in a competitive environment. The Stranger App Jonathan explains the creation and functionality of The Stranger app, a powerful magic trick that combines technology and community. He highlights the app’s impact on his performances and the global community of magicians it has fostered. Nexus Project Jonathan introduces his latest project, Nexus, which serves as a digital hub for creating innovative magic routines. He details the features of Nexus and how it allows magicians to integrate various inputs and outputs seamlessly into their performances. Endless Chain Jonathan recommends Christopher Hart as a future guest for the podcast, noting his expertise and contributions to the world of magic. Mentions Jonathan Levit’s Website Jonathan Levit Instagram Twisting the Aces The Stranger App

Welcome to another insightful episode of Discourse in Magic with your host, Jonah Babins! This week, Jonah shares his journey and lessons learned from running Google ads in his magic business. Unlike tactical episodes, this one dives deep into the mental game and personal experiences that paved the way for success. Perseverance and Mindset Jonah’s initial attempts with Google ads led to small gigs and disappointment, making him nearly give up on the idea. However, he emphasizes the importance of persistence and learning from failures. Understanding that hard things may not work the first time is crucial for growth. Learning and Commitment After a five-year hiatus, Jonah revisited ad campaigns with a dedicated effort to learn and improve. He spent significant time understanding the basics of running ads, leading to better results. The significance of investing time in learning cannot be understated. Hiring Experts Jonah’s decision to hire professionals transformed his ad campaigns and led to significant business growth. He highlights the value of expert knowledge and continuous improvement. Collaborating with experts allowed Jonah to scale and optimize his ad campaigns effectively. Scaling and Growth Taking successful ad campaigns to the next level involved hiring the right people. Jonah discusses the impact of mentorship and expert guidance in achieving business growth. He emphasizes the importance of investing in education and professional support to unlock new levels of success. Stay Connected: Website: Discourse in Magic Instagram: @discourseinmagic Facebook: Discourse in Magic

In this episode, Jonah sits down with Rachel Wax to discuss her journey from fashion to full-time magic, performing at Speakeasy Magick, and her creative process for developing new routines. Getting Into Magic Rachel’s introduction to magic came from her father, a surgeon with a passion for tricks. At 15, she learned a self-working card trick, sparking a lifelong fascination. Despite initially pursuing fashion design at FIT in New York, Rachel found herself drawn into the city’s magic scene, demoing magic kits at FAO Schwarz and Toys ‘R’ Us. This led her to The Magnets, a group of magicians who jammed and performed together, helping her refine her craft. The New York Magic Scene Rachel shares insights into what makes the New York magic scene unique, from its competitive nature to the high expectations of its audiences. She highlights how performing in such a dynamic city pushes magicians to be better and why close-up magic is having a moment right now. Speakeasy Magic and Performing in Immersive Environments As a regular performer at Speakeasy Magick Rachel describes the challenges and rewards of working in an immersive, up-close environment. She explains how the show is structured, what makes it special, and how it has shaped her as a performer. Creative Process and Mind Mapping Rachel breaks down her approach to creating new magic, including how she uses mind mapping to develop tricks that align with her character. She also walks through her process for refining routines, incorporating audience feedback, and continuously evolving her material. Being a Woman in Magic Rachel candidly discusses her experiences as a woman in the magic industry, from dealing with audience perceptions to navigating sexism at conventions. She shares how she turns low expectations into an advantage and the importance of fostering an inclusive and supportive magic community. The Business of Magic in New York Jonah and Rachel discuss the business side of magic, including how private gigs and ticketed shows shape a magician’s career in New York. Rachel also touches on why having multiple great magic shows in a city helps grow the industry rather than creating competition. Mentions Speakeasy Magic Vanishing Inc. (Mind Mapping project) Rachel Wax’s Website Instagram Endless Chain Rachel recommends checking out: Eli Bosnick  

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins sits down with magician, science communicator, and viral illusion creator Matt Pritchard. Matt’s unique approach blends his background in physics with a passion for magic, leading to mesmerizing optical illusions and science-based performances that captivate audiences worldwide. How Matt Got Into Magic Matt shares his journey into magic, starting with escapology as a teenager before evolving into a love for illusions. He discusses how his studies in physics and early performances in bars and student events led to a deeper appreciation for the overlap between magic and science. The Intersection of Magic and Science Jonah and Matt explore the shared sense of wonder in both disciplines. Matt explains how science and magic both challenge our understanding of reality—one by uncovering truths and the other by deliberately concealing them. He also touches on his work in science communication, where he teaches students using illusions to explain scientific concepts. The Rise of Matt’s Viral Illusions During the pandemic, Matt started sharing his optical illusions online, quickly gaining traction. He details how his illusions evolved through audience feedback and meticulous experimentation. One of his standout viral creations—an elephant disappearing from a moving train track—attracted major attention from magicians and illusionists worldwide. Creativity and Problem-Solving in Illusions Matt offers insight into his creative process, from finding inspiration in old magic books and science experiments to refining illusions through trial and error. He discusses the fusion of stage and close-up magic techniques in his work, making them especially deceptive—even to seasoned magicians. The Business of Science Magic Matt talks about transitioning from working in a science museum to performing independently in schools and festivals. He shares how word-of-mouth, smart branding (switching from “Lab Monkey Productions” to “Science Magic Shows”), and strategic partnerships helped grow his business. The Ethics of Magic and Social Media Jonah and Matt debate the challenges of posting illusions online, particularly dealing with exposure and explanations in comment sections. Matt embraces engagement, often encouraging audiences to theorize about his illusions while maintaining a sense of mystery. Final Thoughts and Recommendations Matt reflects on his favorite aspects of modern magic, emphasizing performances that focus on human connection and wonder. He also shares his least favorite trend: exposure videos that diminish the mystery and artistry of magic. Endless Chain Matt suggests two fascinating guests for future episodes: Ian Kendall – A highly skilled street performer from Edinburgh. Gaia Rossi – A talented stage magician and psychologist, offering insights into the psychology behind magic. Mentions Instagram & Twitter: @sciencemagician Website: Science Magic Shows Derren Brown’s Show – Derren Brown Twist Museum, London – Twist Museum Robert Harbin’s Work – Robert Harbin on Magicpedia Lawrence Hass’ Paper Ball Act – Lawrence Hass  

In this week’s episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins kicks off the new year with an insightful discussion about the January slump—a reality for many magicians—and how to turn it into an opportunity for growth. With the rush of holiday gigs behind us, Jonah explains how January offers a unique chance to focus on improving your magic business. The January Slump: A Common Challenge As Jonah points out, January can feel like a shock after the busiest month of the year. December brings a whirlwind of gigs, inquiries, and emails, but when the clock strikes midnight on New Year’s Eve, everything seems to come to a halt. Jonah reassures listeners that this is entirely normal—not just for you, but for magicians everywhere. In fact, it’s the slowest month of the year for most performers, as evidenced by the revenue data he tracks for his mastermind group of magicians. Rather than feeling discouraged, Jonah invites you to see this slow season as a gift. Instead of scrambling to keep up with gigs and inquiries, you now have the time to work on your business rather than in your business. Three Big Projects to Tackle in January Jonah highlights three key areas to focus on during this quieter season to set yourself up for long-term success: Revamp Your Website January is the perfect time to improve your website. Whether it’s upgrading the design, adding a booking form, or updating images, this is the time to make changes. With less traffic coming in, you don’t have to worry about downtime, giving you the freedom to experiment and improve.  Create a New Promo Video If you captured video footage from your holiday gigs, now is the time to turn it into a standout promo video. Jonah emphasizes the importance of crafting a video that showcases your best moments—whether it’s a trick with fire, a big audience reaction, or a beautifully staged performance. With January’s slower pace, you can give this project the time and attention it deserves.  Set Up or Upgrade Your CRM If you’ve started booking gigs regularly, it might be time to implement a CRM (Customer Relationship Management) system to organize your client data. Jonah shares his thoughts on different CRM options and explains why this is a task best tackled during a slower season, rather than in the chaos of the holiday rush.  The One Thing You Must Do in January Planning your entire year is Jonah’s top recommendation for January. He explains how having a roadmap for your goals, projects, and marketing efforts can keep you on track throughout the year. Without a plan, it’s easy for big projects—like setting up Google ads or improving your SEO—to fall by the wayside. Jonah also encourages listeners to reflect on the previous year. What types of gigs did you enjoy most? What areas of your business could be improved? This self-assessment will help you prioritize your efforts and make 2025 your best year yet. Join the “Preloaded Year” Workshop To help magicians plan their year, Jonah is hosting a free workshop called The Preloaded Year on January 15th. In just 75 minutes, he’ll guide participants through creating a comprehensive plan for their magic business. Whether it’s marketing, business development, or personal goals, you’ll walk away with a clear strategy for the year ahead. Can’t make the live session? No problem! Jonah is offering a recording of the workshop for a limited time to those who sign up. Click the link in the episode description to secure your spot. Final Thoughts This episode is packed with actionable advice for magicians looking to make the most of January. By embracing the slower season and focusing on big-picture projects, you can set yourself up for success in 2025. Links and Resources Sign up for the Preloaded Year workshop here. Follow Jonah on Instagram: @JonahBabinsmagic We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode. What projects are you tackling this January? Share your plans in the comments or on social media, and let’s make 2025 a year to remember! Be sure to subscribe to Discourse in Magic for more insights, tips, and strategies to elevate your magic business.

Join us for a unique twist as Eric Leclerc takes over as host to interview the usual host, Jonah Babins, on his own podcast, Discourse in Magic. This engaging conversation uncovers Jonah’s journey into the world of magic and podcasting, revealing how his love for both has enriched his life. Jonah shares his early experiences with magic, sparked by his uncle’s D lights, and reflects on how podcasts have become a source of daily inspiration and learning. Meanwhile, Eric, who is new to podcasting, talks about how this medium has transformed everyday activities like driving and working out into enjoyable experiences. Together, they explore the irresistible allure of magic and the power of podcasts. As we travel back in time, Jonah takes us through his formative years at the Sorcerer’s Safari Magic Camp in Canada, where he forged lasting friendships and found mentorship under Ben Train. These experiences, from summer camps to visits to magic shops, marked a transition from youthful fascination to a deeper appreciation of the craft. The episode also explores Jonah’s entrepreneurial journey, where he transformed his passion for magic into a successful career. He recounts the pivotal moment that led him to pursue magic professionally and shares the role his family played in supporting his dreams, even when they had their reservations. Finally, listen in as Jonah shares insights into building a successful business in the magic industry. From mastering marketing strategies and building an online presence to embracing the power of mastermind groups, Jonah emphasizes the importance of community and support. The episode also touches on overcoming ego and the significance of work ethic and motivation in achieving success. Throughout, Jonah reflects on the evolving nature of modern magic, the impact of social media, and the joy of mentoring emerging magicians. With heartwarming stories and practical advice, this episode is a testament to the enduring passion for magic and the transformative power of community and creativity. Entrepreneurial Journey in Magic Industry We take a journey through the early career of a magician who transitioned from working at a day camp to performing magic full-time. It all began with a pivotal moment in 2011 when, despite an initial lack of interest in marketing and business, he realized the potential of pursuing magic as a profession after seeing a poorly received magic show at a camp. With the encouragement and help of his entrepreneurial mother, he contacted 150 camp directors and started booking magic workshops, initially underpricing his services due to inexperience. Over the years, he expanded his network, refined his approach, and grew his summer business to earn significant income. By the time he graduated with a math degree in 2016, he had already established a successful career in magic, choosing to follow his passion rather than a traditional path in mathematics. Marketing Strategies and Business Success We explore the journey of building an online presence and leveraging it for success in marketing and business. Starting with inspiration from various marketing podcasts, I highlight the power of having a large audience to sell products or services, even without a clear initial idea of what those might be. Through experimenting with affiliate links and merchandise, I learned the value of sharing knowledge and creating content. During the COVID pandemic, I recognized an opportunity to expand into virtual shows and workshops, which led to the development of the Magicians Accountability Group in Quarantine (MAGIQ). This chapter illustrates how perseverance and seizing opportunities can lead to unexpected growth, eventually establishing a coaching and mastermind format that has continued to evolve since its inception during the pandemic. The Importance of Work Ethic We discuss the intricacies of work ethic and motivation, particularly in the context of pursuing a career in magic. I share personal anecdotes about the expectations set by my parents and the necessity of having a strong work ethic to succeed. We examine the idea that understanding how to work hard is a learned skill, emphasizing the importance of having a compelling ‘why’ behind one’s efforts. The conversation touches on the concept of motivation being driven by either the pursuit of rewards or the avoidance of negative outcomes. We discuss setting goals that are both selfish and selfless, to find a balance that drives success. Additionally, I express confusion over people who desire growth in their careers but do not take actionable steps, highlighting the necessity of effort, such as consistently creating content or trying new strategies. Mentions https://ericleclerc.com/ https://www.instagram.com/magic4yourbrain/  

Renowned magician and captivating storyteller Taylor Hughes joins us for an insightful exploration of his magical journey. We unravel Taylor’s innovative blend of storytelling and illusion, a unique approach shaped by early influences like the Magic Castle Junior Society. Taylor opens up about crafting acts that not only mesmerize but also resonate deeply with audiences, highlighting the impact of social media and digital platforms like Amazon on broadening his reach and redefining success in modern magic. We discuss the art of evolution in performance, drawing parallels between the worlds of magic and comedy. Taylor shares how his career took a transformative turn, fueled by a pivotal conversation with his wife that encouraged the integration of personal stories into his acts. This shift not only revitalized his performances but also deepened audience connections, demonstrating the power of authenticity and personal expression in creating memorable experiences. The conversation also touches on the practicalities of rebuilding a career and the necessity of embracing change to avoid creative stagnation. Taylor also offers valuable insights into the business side of magic, from mastering the art of emceeing to crafting a comedy magic special. He discusses the strategic use of social media and touring techniques to maximize exposure and reach new audiences. With anecdotes about pivotal career moments and the importance of a digital footprint, this episode is a treasure trove of advice for magicians and performers aspiring to expand their horizons in today’s ever-evolving entertainment landscape. Join us for this inspiring dialogue that illuminates the path to success in the art of magic and beyond. Rebuilding Magic Career Through Hustle We explore the journey of a magician who started his career in the Junior Society, inspired by Diana Zimmerman’s advice to embrace their unique desire to perform and to always accept opportunities. Despite a successful start, a shift to working as a youth pastor led to a temporary pause in performing magic. Returning to magic full-time required starting from scratch, borrowing props, and reaching out to old contacts, driven by the need to support his family. Evolution of Magic Performance Styles We discuss the philosophy of magic, particularly the tendency of magicians to polish their acts to the point where they lose their original charm. Drawing comparisons to comedians who create, refine, and then release new material, the conversation highlights the importance of evolving one’s act to prevent stagnation and maintain engagement. We discuss how magicians often perform the same routine for decades, which can become stale both for the performer and the audience Crafting Relatable Stories in Magic We talk about how the key to resonating with people lies in sharing universal themes and experiences, even if they stem from personal and unique stories. Drawing inspiration from the success of shows like “Everybody Loves Raymond,” where personal anecdotes became universally relatable, we highlight the challenge in magic where the focus on skill can create a disconnect. Touring Strategies for Magicians Taylor shares insights borrowed from fellow comedians, like Dave Nihill, on how to effectively use Facebook and Instagram ads to target specific areas and the importance of having compelling content, such as videos, to engage potential audiences. The concept of “four walling” is explained, where comedians rent venues independently, similar to how promoters operate. I discuss leveraging corporate gigs to cover travel expenses, allowing for the testing of new markets with additional performances. Key tactics include collaborating with venues that have established mailing lists, growing a personal mailing list tagged by city, and using creative content to entice and inform audiences. The emphasis is on using multiple tools, such as ads, mailing lists, and local connections, to build a fan base and ensure successful shows. Endless Chain Mark James Mentions https://www.learnwithtaylor.com/ Code: Jonah https://www.magiccastle.com/junior-academy/ https://www.taylorhughes.com/ https://www.instagram.com/magicstoryteller/ https://www.facebook.com/themagicstoryteller/

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, I explore the art of crafting the perfect artist rider for your magic performances. I break down the essentials of what a rider is and why it is crucial for your event’s success. We’ll go over the key elements you should include, from sound and lighting to stage setup and seating arrangements, ensuring that every detail is covered. I’ll share insights on specifying microphone and lighting requirements, as well as how seating arrangements can make or break a show. Additionally, we’ll discuss recording policies to clarify media usage and explore how hospitality needs can vary depending on the event type. To make sure nothing is forgotten, I’ll offer tips on using a notes app to keep track of these requirements, making your rider comprehensive and effective. Listen in as we explore how a well-crafted rider can enhance event execution, emphasizing that while it’s an essential tool, it shouldn’t replace thorough planning. I’ll provide advice on engaging directly with the booker to confirm all details and ensure seamless event execution. Plus, you’ll hear a handy tip about maintaining a dynamic document called “Rider or Die” on your phone to update your requirements based on past events. If you’re interested in booking larger gigs and understanding pricing strategies, I’ll also offer my services for further guidance. Tune in to uncover the nuances of creating a standout event experience that leaves a lasting impression on your audience. Advice on Riders What goes in it? Sound, light, stage, seating, recording, and hospitality. How to make it epic! Create a doc on your phone called Rider or Die that you keep always adding things to based on the events that you go to. Riders are important but… It is not a replacement for proper planning to make sure that you knock the event out of the park. Mentions Send an email to magic(at)TorontoMagicCompany(dot)com. We can talk about what the mastermind is like and see if I can help you!

Join us as we sit down with the incredibly talented Dustin Tavella, winner of the 2021 season of America’s Got Talent, who shares his inspiring journey from a young magician dressed as a clown to a celebrated performer captivating audiences worldwide. Dustin recounts how his passion for magic began with a simple magic kit and a special trick gifted by his uncle, setting him on a path of discovery and performance. His story takes a fascinating turn as he explores the music industry, producing and writing for significant projects before rediscovering his love for magic through a serendipitous encounter. Dustin’s experiences highlight the importance of storytelling and connection in making magic meaningful, and he generously shares how his creative process is influenced by his wife’s intuition and his involvement in a homeless ministry. Explore the intersection of music and magic as Dustin reflects on his artistic journey and the challenges of finding a singular style. Despite his success in the music industry, he grappled with the desire for deeper fulfillment, leading him back to the enchanting world of magic. Drawing parallels between these two art forms, Dustin emphasizes the importance of audience engagement over technical perfection, both in music and magic. Through personal anecdotes, he offers valuable insights into balancing skill with the ability to connect and resonate with audiences, a theme that resonates throughout his performances. Listen in as we explore the power of authenticity and originality in magic, particularly in the high-stakes environment of America’s Got Talent. Dustin discusses the challenges of crafting unique acts and how personal storytelling sets performers apart. We touch on the influence of mentorship and collaboration, highlighting how diverse perspectives from friends and mentors enriched Dustin’s magic. Finally, Dustin shares his experiences performing in Branson, Missouri, a vibrant backdrop for his evolving magic show. Whether discussing the creative freedom found in Branson or the importance of genuine connection, this episode offers an inspiring look at how personal experiences and feedback shape a truly authentic magic performance. Music, Magic, and Finding Style Dustin takes us through a fascinating journey of transitioning between two artistic realms: music and magic. He reflects on his experiences in the music industry, where he had the chance to work with producers and contribute to significant projects like ESPN and the 100th anniversary of the Rose Bowl. Despite his success, Dustin grappled with the challenge of not finding a singular style due to his diverse interests in various music genres, which, while a hindrance as an artist, proved beneficial from a production perspective. This reflection led him to a crossroads, where he realized that neither end of the music industry’s spectrum were fulfilling. Transitioning into magic, Dustin drew parallels between the two art forms, emphasizing the importance of connecting with audiences. Authenticity and Originality in Magic We unpack the unique challenges and opportunities of performing magic on a platform like America’s Got Talent (AGT). We discuss the difficulty of creating new and unique acts in a space where many iconic magicians have already set high standards. The conversation highlights the importance of authenticity and personal storytelling as key differentiators in magic, emphasizing that while many can purchase tricks, the real magic lies in who the magician is as a person. We touch on the notion that people can sense authenticity, which becomes crucial for magicians who inherently deal in illusion. By embracing individuality and honesty, performers can resonate more deeply with their audience. This discussion offers valuable insights for current performers, underscoring the significance of being genuine and how that authenticity can become the defining element of a magician’s act. Authenticity in Gospel Magic We discuss the intricate balance of performing authentic magic that conveys meaningful messages, particularly within the realm of gospel and inspirational magic. We discuss the challenges that arise when magic feels forced or inauthentic, drawing parallels to scripted and impersonal experiences often felt in churches. Emphasizing the importance of starting with a genuine story, I highlight the need for the message to stand alone, even without the magic trick. The conversation underscores the significance of sharing personal struggles and emotions to connect with audiences, rather than projecting an image of perfection. By revealing our own vulnerabilities and journeys, we aim to resonate more deeply with people, making the magic a supportive element rather than the sole focus. Endless Chain Brent Braun Mentions https://www.dustintavella.com/ https://www.facebook.com/DustinTavella/ https://www.instagram.com/dustintavella/

Today we’re unpacking the secrets of creating a successful lead machine for your magic business. Many magicians believe generating leads is the key to success, but there’s so much more to it. In this episode, we explore three essential systems that will ensure your business not only flourishes but also thrives year after year. We’ll discuss how to effectively generate new leads through various methods like SEO, Google ads, and social media, tailoring these strategies to find the perfect fit for your unique market. But that’s not all! Listen in as we discuss the importance of nurturing relationships with past clients, ensuring they remember your outstanding performances and come back for more. We share proven techniques, including quarterly emails, to keep you on their radar. Plus, we cover the often-overlooked potential of almost-clients—the ones who expressed interest but didn’t book. By maintaining contact with these prospects, you’ll keep your pipeline flowing and seize future opportunities. Join us as we share insights and practical tips to build a robust lead machine, keeping your calendar full and your magic business thriving. Three lead machines you need You need a way to get new leads. You need a way to keep in touch with past clients. You need a way to keep in touch with your almost clients.

Get ready to be amazed by the world of grand illusions with our extraordinary guest, Reza Borchardt, as we explore his magical journey from a passionate young enthusiast to a leading illusionist in Branson, Missouri. Reza takes us behind the curtain, sharing how his early exposure to magic through TV shows and the generous mentorship of magicians like Dave Hamner and Kirby Van Birch fueled his love for the craft. Discover the secrets behind his mind-blowing performances, where large illusions transform into spellbinding stories that captivate audiences, each show bringing something new and exciting through the power of storytelling and audience interaction. Embark on a fascinating journey through Reza’s rise to success, revealing the innovative ways he turned his dream into a thriving career. From transforming old buses into tour vehicles to navigating the vibrant entertainment scene of Branson, Reza opens up about the challenges and triumphs of establishing a dedicated theater and performing hundreds of shows a year. Learn how the blend of music and magic, inspired by live concerts and collaborations with bands like Switchfoot, enhances his performances, creating a unique and exhilarating experience that continues to draw audiences in. In the age of technology, Reza offers insights into the evolving landscape of magic, sharing how the digital era poses both challenges and opportunities for magicians. As he reflects on the intricate process of crafting new illusions and managing a talented team, Reza emphasizes the importance of innovation and feedback in keeping his shows fresh and engaging. Whether you’re a budding magician or a seasoned fan, this episode provides a captivating look at the synergy between tradition and modernity in magic, and the endless possibilities that lie ahead for those daring enough to explore them. Growing Success in Magic Show Tours This chapter takes us through the fascinating journey of a magician who turned his passion into a professional career, highlighting the pivotal moments and strategies that paved his way to success. Starting with a personal story about learning tricks from a master illusionist in a parking lot, we explore the initial struggles and innovative methods employed to fund his dream of touring with a magic show. From transforming an old school bus into a tour vehicle to engaging in unique side hustles like selling candles door-to-door, the determination to achieve his vision is palpable. We also examine the challenges of marketing shows without established notoriety and the gradual growth in audience numbers through word-of-mouth. The chapter concludes with a reflection on the financial and logistical hurdles of running a grand illusion show, revealing the complexities of managing a crew and renting theaters while navigating the risks of potential financial losses. How to Conquer Branson This chapter takes us to the heart of Branson, Missouri, where the unique dynamics of establishing a theater are explored. Known for its diverse entertainment offerings, Branson attracts millions of visitors annually, providing a stage for both rising stars and top-tier performers. We uncover the challenges of setting up a successful show in this bustling yet intimate city, highlighting the importance of patience and perseverance. The journey from leasing theater spaces to owning a dedicated 1,000-seat venue is shared, alongside insights into the seasonal ebb and flow of show schedules. The balance between performing hundreds of shows a year and maintaining passion for the craft is examined, with strategies like audience participation playing a key role in keeping performances fresh. We also get a glimpse into the lifestyle of living near the theater, offering a blend of high-paced work with tranquil home life by the lake. Continuous Improvement in Magic Performance This chapter explores the collaborative and creative process behind crafting a successful magic show. We discuss how a blend of personal innovation, industry collaboration, and feedback from laypeople contributes to the development of compelling magic tricks. I highlight the importance of external perspectives, explaining how industry friends and regular audience members provide invaluable insights that help shape the performance to better connect with viewers. I share anecdotes about specific tricks, like the Oreo and card tricks, emphasizing how initial concepts are transformed into original pieces through experimentation and refinement. By testing these tricks on fellow magicians and gauging their reactions, I gauge the effectiveness and potential of new ideas. This chapter underscores the dynamic and iterative nature of creating magic that captivates and entertains audiences. Endless Chain Dustin Tavella   Mentions https://www.instagram.com/rezaillusionist/ https://www.facebook.com/people/Reza-Borchardt/

Transform your magic career by distinguishing between the flashy allure of marketing and the powerhouse of sales. Join me as I unravel the myth that appearing on big shows like Fool Us or America’s Got Talent is the golden ticket to success. Instead, discover how the real breakthroughs lie in mastering sales tactics such as SEO, ads, and strategic cold emailing. This episode promises to equip you with actionable insights to effectively convert interest into bookings and sustain a thriving magic business in the digital age. Through engaging stories and real-world examples, I share how even magicians with impressive media exposure rely on fundamental sales strategies to keep their calendars full. Reflecting on the evolution of media influence, from the heyday of late-night TV to today’s digital platforms, the discussion reveals why honing your sales skills is crucial for long-term success. Whether you’re an up-and-coming magician or a seasoned performer, this episode offers a fresh perspective on prioritizing the right strategies to ensure consistent growth and recognition in the magic industry. Mentions https://www.nbc.com/americas-got-talent https://www.cwtv.com/shows/penn-teller-fool-us/

Magician and comedian Mike Hammer takes center stage, unveiling the secrets behind his 13-year run on the Las Vegas strip. From his humble beginnings with a simple magic kit in Chicago to captivating audiences in the entertainment capital of the world, Mike’s story is as magical as his performances. With humor and heart, he opens up about the challenges of transitioning from small gigs in restaurants and strip clubs to the bright lights of Vegas, revealing the persistence, networking, and a sprinkle of serendipity that got him there. Mike’s candid reflections on the art of blending comedy with magic can’t be missed! Crafting a standout act in Vegas requires more than just tricks; it demands a deep understanding of humor, audience engagement, and a strong stage persona. Mike shares his evolution from collaborating with a partner to performing solo, emphasizing the importance of scripting and developing material that resonates with diverse audiences. His advice for aspiring magicians is as enlightening as his performances: stay true to your style, but never stop refining your craft. Mike provides insights into the unique life of a Vegas performer. He contrasts the stability of a residency with the excitement of touring, highlighting the creative freedoms and logistical headaches that come with each. He offers a glimpse into the magic of performing in one location, where night after night, the show becomes a familiar yet ever-evolving spectacle. Whether you’re an aspiring magician, a fan of comedy, or simply curious about the life of a Las Vegas entertainer, Mike Hammer’s journey is sure to captivate and inspire! Building a Comedy Show in Vegas We discuss Mike’s early career challenges and successes of a magician breaking into the Las Vegas entertainment sceneMike landed a gig at the Four Queens Hotel and Casino, performing at an unusual time of 3 PM. The challenge of attracting audiences at this time led me to try street magic, a tough endeavor that demanded engaging the public one-on-one. Despite a slow start with small audiences, Mike sustained myself through corporate work and gradually built a larger audience over two years. Crafting Stand-Up Comedy Material We explore Mike’s unique approach to blending comedy and magic by focusing on writing humor that stands independently of the tricks themselves. Mike shares his journey from relying on the humor inherent in magic tricks to crafting jokes that enhance the magic without depending on it. We discuss the importance of writing and how it transforms a performance, moving away from stock jokes to personalized material that aligns with my comedic character. Mike emphasizes the value of recording live shows to capture spontaneous humor, allowing me to refine and build upon these moments. Through anecdotes, I highlight the necessity of balancing improvisation with prepared material to ensure consistent audience engagement, regardless of their reactions. The Realities of Performing in Vegas This chapter explores the contrasting experiences of performing in a fixed location versus touring as a magician. I share my reflections on the idea of owning a magic lounge in Toronto and the allure of corporate gigs that offer a good balance between enjoyment and financial reward. The conversation shifts to the joys and challenges of having a residency in Las Vegas, including the benefits of stability and the opportunity to continually refine material. However, it also touches on the logistical headaches like technical issues, ticketing problems, and traffic delays affecting show timings. Despite these challenges, performing in one place allows for creative improvisation and a stable life. There’s also a nostalgic appreciation for touring, where audiences in different cities often provide unique, memorable experiences, highlighting the contrasting excitement of being a special event in a town compared to being one of many entertainment options in Vegas. Endless Chain Bernardo Sedlacek Mentions Instagram :officialhammer TikTok: @officialmikehammer Facebook: mikehammershow X: officialhammer Website: https://mikehammershow.com/

Unlock the secrets to skyrocketing your holiday bookings this year! Prepare to transform your magic business with our latest episode of Discourse in Magic, where Jonah Babins, guides you through the essential tactics to capitalize on the peak holiday season. Discover why October and early November are the golden months for gig inquiries, and learn how doubling your marketing efforts can yield incredible results. This isn’t just about working harder; it’s about working smarter to ensure a phenomenal end to 2024. In this episode, we break down actionable strategies to boost your visibility and secure more gigs during the holiday rush. From ramping up your ad spend to proactive client outreach, you’ll gain insights into maximizing your opportunities when demand is at its highest. Don’t miss out on this crucial window—prepare now and let’s crush those business goals together. For personalized tips, feel free to reach out to me directly through email or social media. Tune in and make the most of this lucrative season! Maximize your client contacts Double your ad spend: Whatever it is that you were spending on ads, double it throughout September, October and November.  Contact all of your past clients: Everybody who has ever booked you in the past, send them a message!  Double your marketing efforts: If you’re running some sort of ads, double it. If you’re doing some sort of cold email, double it. If you’re DMing people on Instagram, double it. If you’re posting on LinkedIn, double it.

Join us for an exciting episode of Discourse in Magic as we welcome back Ben Train to discuss the launch of our latest project, the Campers Playing Cards. We explore our motivations behind creating this unique deck, our shared love for playing cards, and our desire to contribute something special to the magic community. We also touch on the practical enhancements designed to make these cards versatile for magicians, and the joy of seeing others use and appreciate our creations. In this episode, we take you through the creative journey behind the card deck’s design. From initial brainstorming sessions to the final camping-themed concept, we share the inspiration and artistic evolution that led to the deck’s unique aesthetic. Listen in as we recount personal stories and inspirations, and walk you through the practical steps of bringing our ideas to life with the help of industry giants like Bicycle. Finally, we discuss the innovative marking system we’ve developed for these cards, designed to enhance magic performances. We also introduce our free PDF guide and an interactive Zoom session, tailored for both beginners and seasoned magicians. With our Kickstarter campaign well underway, we emphasize the importance of community support to make this project a reality and share our excitement for the upcoming launch. Don’t miss out on this behind-the-scenes look at the making of the Campers Playing Cards! Card Deck Launch Behind the Scenes We welcome back Ben Train to Discourse in Magic, where we shift our focus from magic performances to the exciting launch of our new project, the Campers Playing Cards. We explore our personal motivations behind creating a deck of cards, touching on our shared love for playing cards and our desire to contribute something tangible to the magic community. We discuss the functional enhancements we’ve included to make these cards more versatile for magicians, as well as the benefits of having custom decks for events, gifts, and personal use. Additionally, we reflect on the joy of seeing others use our creations and the practical aspects of distributing something that truly represents our brand. Design Inspiration for Card Deck We take us on a journey through the creative process behind designing a unique deck of playing cards. We explore the initial motivation for creating the cards, emphasizing the importance of having a clear purpose and concept. The discussion reveals the inspiration and brainstorming sessions that led to the final camping-themed design. Along the way, we recount how initial ideas, such as using a spray paint can or a dog shaking off water, evolved into the concept of using reflections in water for a naturally symmetrical and aesthetically pleasing back design. The narrative also touches on personal inspirations, like a commissioned artwork of a woman blowing dandelions, before settling on the final concept. Finally, we highlight the practical steps involved in bringing these ideas to life with the help of companies like Bicycle. Deck of Cards Aesthetic Design Discussion We explore the essential qualities of a perfect deck of cards for magic and cardistry. We discuss the importance of reflective back designs that maintain consistency across the deck, while avoiding symmetrical patterns that reveal reversed cards. Borders, particularly white ones, are a dealbreaker due to their potential to reveal card orientation and fraying issues. The color scheme for card faces should stick closely to traditional black and red for clarity, avoiding confusing variations. We emphasize the need for recognizable and distinguishable royal cards to facilitate easy performance and gameplay. Additionally, the aesthetics of a deck play a crucial role, as the design should resonate personally and fit various contexts, whether matching an outfit or evoking nostalgia. Lastly, we touch on our own approach to creating a deck that meets these criteria, encouraging listeners to check out our Kickstarter for visual details. Magician’s Guide and Camping Tricks We reveal our offer for a free PDF, “The Magician’s Guide to Camping and Card Tricks,” which is tailored for beginners and laypeople, providing instructions on card tricks, marking systems, and camping games. We discuss the interactive Zoom video session where we will perform, teach, and engage in a Q&A, ensuring a tailored experience based on the attendees. Additionally, we introduce our premium $1,000 package, which includes two bricks of cards, the PDF, Zoom call, uncut sheet, recording of the session, and an exclusive all-expenses-covered cottage trip (excluding flight) with us and special guests, designed for an immersive magic experience with great amenities and magic jams. Mentions https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/torontomagiccompany/campers-playing-cards https://www.instagram.com/train.ben/  

Magician, comedian, and consultant Bruce Gold joins us for an enthralling chat about his dynamic journey from a childhood fascination with magic to an influential career in Hollywood. Starting with a magic set he received as a kid, Bruce shares his path through the comedy club scene, where he learned invaluable lessons by observing both triumphs and failures. He talks about the gritty reality of being overworked and underpaid in the early stages of a performer’s career, emphasizing how these experiences helped shape his unique style that blends magic and comedy. Transitioning from the comedy club circuit to the Hollywood entertainment industry posed numerous challenges for Bruce, which he navigated through relentless networking and adaptability. He shares personal anecdotes about the balancing act of performing magic and stand-up, finding an agent, and eventually carving out a niche in the cruise ship entertainment circuit. This part of the conversation sheds light on the perseverance required to make a sustainable living as a performer, and the strategic choices necessary to avoid being typecast in an industry that often discourages showcasing a diverse skill set. As the discussion progresses, Bruce delves into the evolution of magic performance, the significance of originality, and the art of developing a compelling stage persona. From the choreographed elegance of Doug Henning to the gritty street magic of David Blaine, Bruce offers a fascinating perspective on how magic has transformed over the years. He shares insights from his role as a talent booker for Franz Harary‘s House of Magic in Macau and provides practical advice on maintaining audience engagement and refining acts. Wrapping up, Bruce highlights the success of his coaching clients and encourages aspiring magicians and comedians to reach out for consulting sessions, underscoring the value of continuous improvement and mentorship in the entertainment world. Transitioning From Comedy Clubs to Hollywood Explore the intricate journey of transitioning from being seen as a magician to establishing a financially sustainable career as an actor and comedian. We discuss the challenges faced when first moving to California, where advice often discourages showcasing magic skills to avoid being typecast. By sharing personal experiences, including keeping magic on the down low, performing at comedy clubs, and gradually securing gigs through diligent networking, we uncover the hurdles and strategies for making a living in the entertainment industry. The narrative covers the balance of performing both magic and standup, landing an agent, hosting pilots and game shows, and ultimately finding a niche in the cruise ship entertainment circuit. This chapter provides insights into the perseverance and adaptability required to thrive as a performer in Hollywood.   Developing Originality and Persona in Magic We discuss the evolution of magic performance, highlighting the shift from the clean, choreographed styles of Doug Henning and David Copperfield to David Blaine’s gritty, urban street magic. We examine the importance of originality in magic, emphasizing how a unique persona like Lucy Darling‘s can make familiar tricks feel fresh. The discussion underscores the role of character in both magic and acting, noting that developing a stage persona is a journey of self-discovery influenced by admired figures. Additionally, I share insights on coaching magicians, identifying common gaps such as reliance on rote performance and encouraging choices that maximize engagement and entertainment. We also touch on exercises to help magicians find their unique style by comparing themselves to other performers.   Maximizing Audience Engagement Through Performance This chapter focuses on the unique perspective of a performance coach, highlighting the crucial role of external observation in enhancing a performer’s act. We explore how creators, deeply immersed in their work, often miss elements visible to an audience, and how having a trusted outsider can reveal these hidden aspects. Techniques for maintaining audience engagement are discussed, including the “IU” storytelling method, which encourages audience participation and connection. Additionally, we address the importance of viewing the audience as individuals rather than a collective group, and the significance of direct eye contact in fostering a stronger connection. Practical advice for performers, especially those transitioning from close-up magic to stage performance, is also provided to help them understand and master stagecraft.   Endless Chain Christopher Hart Jonathan Levit   Mentions https://www.facebook.com/BGoldTV/ https://www.instagram.com/brucegold/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruce-gold-92653a59/

Learn how to diversify your magic career and discover why corporate gigs might not be the golden ticket they’re often made out to be. Join host Jonah Babins as he guides you through the captivating world of alternative markets for magicians in this episode of Discourse in Magic. We’ll dissect the allure of corporate events and uncover the real challenges that come with them, from their seasonal nature to the complexities of rebooking. This is an eye-opener for anyone who believes that corporate shows are the pinnacle of a magician’s career. But that’s not all—we’ll broaden your horizons by exploring other lucrative avenues. Imagine securing a restaurant residency with nightly performances, or entertaining at weddings where magic makes the evening unforgettable. Theaters offer the chance to perform for large audiences, often with impressive earnings, while colleges provide vibrant and enthusiastic crowds. House parties can lead to multiple bookings, and performing at religious establishments like churches and synagogues opens up yet another realm of possibilities. Whether you’re a seasoned performer or just starting out, this episode will inspire you to think outside the corporate box and find success in diverse markets. Reasons for Performing at Corporate Events Bigger dollars for corporate events They are classy and awesome looking events They feel great Reasons for Not Performing at Corporate Events The gigs are inconsistent They want a new show every time Endless logistics to manage

Unlock the secrets of trade show magic with Danny Orleans, a master magician whose career spans from children’s theater to corporate stages. You’ll gain actionable insights into how Danny transitioned from performing at kids’ birthday parties to captivating professional audiences at trade shows. Listen as he shares his journey, highlighting key strategies and influential mentors like Eugene Berger and Paul Gertner who helped shape his career. Discover the often-overlooked opportunities in trade show magic, and learn how Danny navigated this niche market to secure and maintain high-profile bookings. From his initial break with a Canadian printer company to his successful techniques for integrating marketing messages with magic routines, Danny offers invaluable advice for magicians aspiring to thrive in the trade show arena. This episode is packed with tips on using technology for lead capture and the importance of blending seamlessly into the business environment. Finally, we discuss the evolving landscape of modern magic, including the impact of social media and televised magic shows on the industry. Danny shares his thoughts on the challenges of performing in high-stakes environments like trade shows, where rejection is common and resilience is key. Additionally, you’ll hear about quality resources and communities, like a dedicated Facebook group, that can support your growth in trade show magic. Whether you’re a budding magician or a seasoned performer, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom and practical advice. Trade Show Magic Danny Orleans is a versatile magician renowned for his expertise in trade show magic.. Danny discusses the challenges and strategies for making a career in magic, highlighting his early successes and the affordability of education and living costs in the past. We explore his journey from birthday parties to becoming a professional magician, emphasizing the opportunities in trade show magic and providing insights into marketing and pricing for aspiring magicians. Successful Trade Show Magic Strategies We focus on the unique attributes and strategies of successful trade show magicians. We discuss how integrating seamlessly into the business environment, both in appearance and demeanor, is crucial for attracting corporate clients. The conversation highlights the importance of blending a marketing message with magic routines to captivate and qualify leads without overwhelming the audience. Secrets of Trade Show Magic We examine the evolution of magic tricks and the practicality of incorporating them into a magician’s repertoire. We explore the criteria for evaluating a magic trick’s effectiveness, such as its ease of use, portability, and suitability for various performance settings like Instagram or live gigs. Additionally, we discuss the importance of understanding the intended audience and context when purchasing magic tricks. Endless Chain Jan Rose Leah Orleans Mentions https://www.facebook.com/groups/tradeshowperformers http://dannyorleansmagic.com/ https://www.instagram.com/dannyorleans/

What if you could transform your passion for magic into a steady stream of gigs without quitting your day job? On this episode of Discourse in Magic, join me, Jonah Babins, as I reveal the secrets to getting your first paid magic performances. We’ll dissect the three pillars of a successful magician’s business: establishing authority, mastering basic sales techniques, and generating leads. Learn how to create proof of your magical prowess with just a simple webpage or PDF, and understand the critical role of photos, testimonials, and logos in building your credibility. Tune in to discover creative, actionable strategies to gather the all-important proof of your skills, even if you’ve never performed professionally before. From calling in favors to performing free shows, I’ll guide you through leveraging your network effectively. This episode is a must-listen for anyone eager to book their first gigs and lay down the foundation for a successful career in magic. Whether you’re an aspiring magician or looking to refine your booking approach, this episode offers invaluable tips and confidence to help you shine. Three critical components: Authority: Establish credibility with photos, testimonials, and logos from past performances. Sales: Convert inquiries into bookings with basic sales techniques and reasonable pricing to build momentum. Leads: Generate opportunities through cold emailing potential venues and using gig sites. Jonah encourages new magicians to take proactive steps, build a portfolio, and reach out for help if needed, aiming to inspire and assist them in launching their magic careers.

Prepare to be amazed as we sit down with the extraordinary magician, Chris Michael! From his early days inspired by a local librarian magician to captivating audiences at high-profile corporate events, Chris’s journey is nothing short of magical. He shares heartfelt stories about the emotional bonds formed through magic, particularly with his mother, and offers aspiring magicians invaluable advice on securing gigs and captivating audiences with charisma and close-up magic. Chris reveals the power of storytelling in his craft, emphasizing how compelling, truthful narratives from one’s life can create memorable connections with the audience. By sharing vivid childhood memories and encounters with famous magicians, Chris illustrates how these stories enhance a magician’s persona and engagement. The episode also dives into the business side of magic, exploring strategies for recognizing and capitalizing on the true value of a magician’s craft, building genuine relationships, and growing a strong support team. Magician’s Journey and Impact on Audience Exploree the journey of Chris Michael, an extraordinary magician whose career has skyrocketed over the past decade. We discuss his humble beginnings, from being inspired by a local librarian magician named Jester Jim to learning tricks from his grandfather and uncle. Chris shares a touching story about how magic helped him bond with his mother, revealing the deeper emotional connections that magic can foster. Additionally, we cover the evolution of his career from local and library shows to high-profile corporate events, offering invaluable insights for aspiring magicians on how to secure gigs and captivate audiences with charisma and close-up magic. Enhancing Stage Presence and Connection Chris offers practical advice for magicians looking to enhance their stage presence and charisma. We explore the importance of delivery in magic performances, emphasizing the need for clarity and self-awareness. Drawing from personal experience and insights from working with directors like Scott Neary, we highlight the significance of appearing seasoned and composed on stage. Through relatable anecdotes, such as an unexpected Carly Rae Jepsen performance and a challenging live auction at the Embassy of Argentina, we illustrate the value of addressing audience concerns directly and maintaining honesty during unexpected situations. By setting clear expectations and acknowledging any mishaps, magicians can create a more engaging and authentic experience for their audience. Building Relationships and Growing Teams The importance of building genuine relationships in business, particularly through casual, friendly interactions rather than immediately focusing on transactions. Chris share strategies on how to remember personal details about people, maintain connections, and make others feel valued. We discuss the role of teamwork, emphasizing the need to hire help, even when it seems financially challenging, to grow the business. By creating a seamless blend between professional and personal interactions, I highlight how clients can become friends and how this approach fosters long-term success. Additionally, we touch on the logistical aspects of managing contacts and leveraging a CRM system, facilitated by gis team to ensure efficient follow-up and relationship management. Creative Fulfillment in Modern Magic Chris’s creative journey as a magician who transitions from feeling cathartic fulfillment in performing a repeated story to seeking new projects. We discuss the distinct experiences between theater and corporate shows and the evolving role of technology in modern magic. There’s a love-hate relationship with technology’s impact on magic tricks, particularly with updates from companies like Apple. Endless Chain Eric Jones Mentions https://chrismikemagic.com/ https://www.instagram.com/chrismikemagic/  

Unlock the secrets to booking your own magic shows and lectures as you follow my whirlwind journey through August! In this episode of Discourse in Magic I’ll take you on a thrilling tour that begins at the Magic Live convention in Las Vegas, sweeps through a performance in LA, includes a business convention in Fiji, and features lectures in both Sydney and Melbourne. Whether you’re just curious about life on the road as a magician or looking to share tricks and drinks with me along the way, there’s something magical here for everyone. But that’s not all! I’ll also reveal my tried-and-true strategies for booking gigs through the power of cold emails. Learn step-by-step how to connect with lecture clubs and venue owners, showcasing your past experiences and marketing materials to secure successful bookings. If you’re an aspiring magician eager to expand your reach or simply interested in the behind-the-scenes workings of a magic tour, this episode is packed with practical advice and insider tips that are sure to enchant. Come Hang Out With Me! I am going to be at the Magic Live convention in Las Vegas In LA, August 4-7, 2024. Then I’m headed to LA to meet with a mastermind client and to do a show together August 9-11, 2024 Then I’m going to Fiji for a business conenvention. If you’re Fijian we should hang out! After Fiji I will be in Hawwaii for a business convention FInally I will by in Sydney and Melbourne for a lecture in each of those cities. 3 Things to Start Sending Cold Emails You need proof, something to actually send them. Send is context of other examples that you’ve done that. You need who to send the stuff to. Links Email me at Magic(at)TorontoMagicCompany(dot)com if you want to connect!

Renowned magic consultant Rory Adams joins us to share his incredible journey from a childhood fascination with magic, sparked by his grandfather’s box of tricks, to a decade-long career in magic TV show writing. Discover how his innovative approach of posting daily magic tricks on Instagram led to a consulting gig with Dynamo and paved the way for his remarkable career. Rory offers an insider’s look at the role of a magic consultant, emphasizing his unique focus on writing and the importance of hiring experts for magic-related projects. In our chat, Rory reveals the creative processes behind some of your favorite TV segments, like James Corden’s “Carpool Karaoke,” and discusses the critical metrics for a consultant’s success. We delve into the nuances of magic consulting, comparing hands-on approaches to more conceptual ones, and the importance of restrictions in fostering creativity—especially within talent shows like America’s Got Talent. Rory also shares valuable insights into the collaborative nature of idea generation in magic and how expectations for viral success shape the creative process. We explore the impact of social media on the magic world, particularly during the pandemic, with Rory recounting his experiences scripting videos for TikTok influencers. Learn about the strategies magicians can employ to succeed on platforms like TikTok and the ethical considerations in magic, from camera tricks to balancing the art’s mystery with new platforms. Wrapping up, we reflect on the evolution of the One Ahead blog, its focus on delivering high-value content, and Rory’s advice for growing a magic business. Don’t miss this episode filled with practical tips and behind-the-scenes stories from the fascinating world of magic consulting. Networking and Hard Work in Magic We explore the journey of becoming a TV magic consultant through the lens of personal experience. I reflect on my early use of Instagram to showcase daily magic tricks and how this unique approach, coupled with the right timing, led to unexpected opportunities. We discuss the evolution of social media and its current landscape, noting that today’s aspiring magicians might need different strategies. Key advice includes the importance of hard work and building connections, illustrated by my experiences with networking and leveraging friendships. Notably, the strategic decision to stop posting videos at a critical moment played a pivotal role in securing a job with Dynamo, emphasizing the nuanced tactics that can lead to success in this competitive field. Building Creative Magic for TV We discuss the importance of restrictions in fostering creativity, particularly within the context of magic performances on shows like America’s Got Talent. We discuss how having a clear direction or goal can be more beneficial than focusing solely on restrictions. The conversation also touches on the distinction between invention and creativity, emphasizing that most magical acts are adaptations rather than completely original inventions. The challenges faced by magicians on talent shows are highlighted, particularly the influence of producers’ demands. Additionally, we share insights from working in a writer’s room, the significance of themes, and the importance of understanding performers’ goals, such as whether they aim to fool judges or achieve other objectives. The chapter concludes with an example of how expectations for viral success can shape the creative process in subsequent projects. Debating Magicians and Camera Tricks What is the dichotomy between live and televised magic? We examine the frustrations magicians face when comparing the two mediums. We discuss the perception that big-budget TV tricks are less impressive than close-up magic performed live, emphasizing the value of personal interaction in magic. The conversation also touches on the contentious issue of camera tricks and other exclusive TV methods like staged mic checks, questioning whether such techniques should be deemed unfair. We acknowledge the unique constraints and benefits each medium offers, arguing that different settings allow for different methods, and ultimately, it’s about the overall experience and impact on the audience. Magic Consulting and Coaching Trends This chapter explores the journey and evolution of the One Ahead website over the past three years, culminating in the recent launch of its latest version. We discuss the focus on delivering high-value content through a streamlined newsletter format, emphasizing quality over quantity. I express my excitement about the website’s newfound identity and stability, while highlighting the increasing popularity of newsletters and podcasting. We touch on modern magic’s diverse landscape, the annoyance of magicians asking pointless questions, and the issue of exposure in the magic community. Finally, we cover ways to stay updated with One Ahead an

Unlock the secrets to producing successful public ticketed magic shows with me, Jonah Babins. This episode pulls back the curtain on the often unseen challenges and rewards of organizing these captivating events. From the intensive workload involved in venue selection, marketing, and ticket sales to the financial realities that can make or break your efforts, you’ll gain a thorough understanding of what it truly takes to bring your magic to the public eye. We share the three primary hurdles that can make producing magic shows a daunting task, alongside three compelling reasons why the challenge might be worth your while. This isn’t about persuading you to take one path or the other—it’s about giving you the honest, unvarnished truth so you can make an informed decision. Whether you’re an aspiring magician or a seasoned pro, don’t miss this candid exploration of the highs and lows of producing public magic shows. Reasons for not doing public magic shows They are a lot of work! They are not the profitable. It is rarely a booking audience Reasons for doing public magic shows They are really fun! They are a great environment to try new material They are something to offer for free to past clients and your peers Links https://www.torontomagiccompany.com/ben-and-jonahs-magic-road-trip https://www.facebook.com/events/d41d8cd9/tricks-in-the-six-with-matt-disero-jonah-babins-and-ben-train

Discover the remarkable journey of Spanish magician Jandro in this captivating episode of Discourse in Magic. Inspired by the legendary Juan Tamariz, Jandro recounts his serendipitous discovery of a local magician’s academy in Valencia and his evolution into a renowned magician and TV personality. With anecdotes from his 15-year tenure on a Spanish late-night show, where he performed magic and wrote comedy for celebrities like Will Smith and Taylor Swift, this episode offers an enthralling peek behind the curtain into the world of magic and entertainment. Creativity and Technique in Magic We explore the importance of joke writing and daily practice in honing one’s craft, whether it’s magic or comedy. Jandro shares experiences from working on a magic TV show, emphasising the need for creativity when resources are limited. He recounts how rigorous practice with card techniques gave way to innovative, intuitive performance styles when working on live TV. We also discuss the concept of using jokes and situational techniques as alternatives to traditional magic methods, highlighting the blend of technical skill and creative thinking in successful magic performances. Fooling Penn and Teller Jandro shares an amusing anecdote about wanting to perform a “car trick” on Penn and Teller’s Fool Us, playing on language misunderstandings and breaking assumptions. We explore how the use of unexpected elements, such as shooting in a remote landscape with a printed background and utilising a drone instead of a webcam, enhances the performance. Additionally, the concept of integrating deeper messages into tricks is discussed, exemplified by a routine involving the consequences of lying, where each falsehood results in a cat’s “explosion.” The chapter concludes with insights into the strategies used to consistently fool seasoned magicians like Penn and Teller by always thinking ahead and presenting tricks designed specifically for one-time performances on the show.   Magical Masters and Creative Influences We discuss the joy and growth that comes from collaborating with iconic figures like Penn and Teller, and how their innovative ideas elevate each other’s work. The conversation highlights the profound impact of Spanish magicians like Juan Tamariz and his mentors, including Ascanio and Gabi Pareres, on the art of magic. We emphasise the importance of understanding the deep psychological and philosophical aspects behind magical performances, as well as the legacy left by these masters. The discussion also touches on the evolution of magic through the contributions of newer magicians who continue to build on the foundations laid by their predecessors, stressing the necessity of studying the masters to truly appreciate and advance the craft.   Endless chain Ruben Vilagrand   Links https://x.com/Jandro https://www.penguinmagic.com/magician/juan-tamariz https://www.cwtv.com/shows/penn-teller-fool-us/

Unlock the secrets to making your magic performances more natural and convincing. Join Jonah Babins as he reveals his three favorite magic projects that have profoundly influenced his approach to magic and performance. From magic theory to practical techniques, these projects have reshaped his understanding and execution of the craft. Whether you’re a seasoned magician or just starting out, this episode is packed with practical tips and theoretical gems that will inspire you to rethink and refine your magical chops! Dani DaOrtiz’s Utopia We start with Dani DaOrtiz’s groundbreaking “Utopia” series. Learn the transformative lessons contained in this four-DVD collection, produced by Luís de Matos. Dani’s emphasis on clarity and naturalness has reshaped his approach to close-up card magic, and why replacing suspicious maneuvers with straightforward actions can make your tricks more believable. Discover how these priceless insights have not only enhanced Jonah’s performances but can also revolutionize your own magic acts. Whether you’re a seasoned magician or just starting out, these DVD’s are packed with practical tips and theoretical gems that will inspire you to rethink and refine your magical craft. Asi Win’s Repertoire This volume presents an extensive collection of Asi Wind’s repertoire that stretches over the last two decades. Asi’s style of performance has led him to devise magic that seems as fair as it gets and magic almost happens by itself. These routines that have been kept under wraps for many years are laid out here for the first time in great detail. ​ Asi also revisits several routines he published in the past and brings them up to date with added details and features that he developed over the years while performing them. Magic Rainbow by Juan Tamariz The Magic Rainbow is the fruit of more than forty years of thought, study and analysis by Juan Tamariz, considered a genius of magic the world over. In 1988, Tamariz published The Magic Way, which became an immediate classic. In it he revealed a brilliant system for making the secret methods of magic effects impossible to detect. In The Magic Rainbow, Tamariz takes his readers and their audiences farther up The Magic Way until they are delivered to the ultimate destination, where logical analysis is abandoned to emotions of amazement, fascination and wonder; where the feeling of magic becomes, for a while, an impossibility firmly rooted in reality. Mentions Dani DaOrtiz’s “Utopia” series Asi Win’s Repertoire Magic Rainbow by Juan Tamariz

Legendary magician Gaetan Bloom joins us to share his journey from a curious child to becoming an iconic figure in the world of magic. Throughout our conversation, Gaetan opens up about the pivotal mentors who shaped his path and how these relationships inspired his most famous tricks. He discusses his innovative approach to magic, which involves transforming everyday objects through curiosity and problem-solving. Whether you’re an aspiring magician or simply enchanted by the art of illusion, Gaetan’s insights are sure to captivate and inspire. Magical Beginnings and Creative Insights Explore the fascinating journey of Gaetan Bloom, an incredible magician and creator. We discuss how he got started in magic, inspired by a magician he saw at a hotel show as a child. Gaetan shares his early experiences, including his first magic kit and his discovery of the legendary Mayette magic shop in Paris. He recounts his unwavering passion for magic despite his parents’ conventional careers and the influence of a well-known lawyer whose passion for magic helped Gaetan’s parents support his magical aspirations. Influential Mentors and Creative Insight We discuss how Gaetan proactively became known in magic clubs as a teenager and formed significant relationships with influential figures like Ken Brooke and Dai Vernon. These mentors played crucial roles in advancing his career. Notable highlights include his interactions with prominent magicians and the development of his famous standing card trick. We also touch on the impactful guidance from mentors such as Jean Merlin, James Hodges, and Finn Jon, each contributing uniquely to his growth and success in the world of magic. The Magic of Object Presentation We learn about the fascinating interplay between magic and objects, with a focus on the creativity involved in incorporating unusual props like boxing gloves. We discuss the inspiration behind using such unconventional items, tracing back to a comedic performance by the French entertainer Coluche, who played the violin with boxing gloves. We consider the approach to scripting and rehearsing, emphasizing the organic development of dialogue and presentation in magic routines. Simplicity in Magical Inventions We explore the balance between originality and tradition in magic. I share my passion for fooling magicians by reinventing standard effects with new methods, emphasizing the importance of personal creativity over instant solutions available online. We touch upon the early inspiration from the Tarbell Course in Magic, where Gaetan challenged himself to develop unique methods for existing tricks. Endless Chain Charlie Frye Links https://www.penguinmagic.com/magician/gaetan-bloom https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magician/Gaetan-Bloom/ https://www.mymagic.com/creator/gaetan-bloom

What if charging $250 per show is the very thing holding you back from building a $100,000 magic business? This episode of Discourse in Magic, hosted by Jonah Babins, dives into the powerful strategy of reverse engineering your way to a six-figure income in the magic industry. Do the math! Drawing from his unique background in pure math and his experience running a successful magic mastermind, Jonah breaks down the essential numbers and strategies you need to elevate your magic career. Whether you’re curious about the ideal number of bookings or questioning the feasibility of your current rates, this episode is packed with actionable insights that will transform your business approach. Learn from the best Join Jonah as he shares enlightening conversations with fellow magicians during strategy sessions and mastermind meetings. Discover why sticking to rates like $250 or $400 per show could be the very obstacle in your path to financial success. From understanding your market positioning to identifying the right niche, Jonah provides practical math and strategic advice to help you hit — and surpass — the $100k mark. If you’re serious about refining your business strategy and making your magic career flourish, this episode is a must-listen! Mentions https://discourseinmagic.com/mastermind-invitation/

Jeki Yoo joins host Jonah Babins to discuss his magic journey, experiences in competitions, and his unique approach to crafting magic for television and social media. They explore the magic scene in South Korea and delve into Jeki’s process of creating engaging pop-up magic videos, which can take weeks to perfect. Jeki shares his organizational methods, his passion for magic, and how he monetizes his craft through events and product sales. The conversation also touches on the broader magic community, the effects of accessibility, Behind the Scenes of Creativity Jeki’s dedication to his craft is truly admirable. We talked about his process for brainstorming and tracking ideas, and how he uses tools like Notion to keep his magical concepts organized. It’s a peek into the mind of a magician who’s always pushing the boundaries. The Business of Magic Let’s not forget, magic is not just about the applause; it’s also a livelihood. Jeki opened up about how he balances his passion with the practical aspects of running a magic business, from performing at events to selling his own magic products. “Oh My” – More Than Just a Catchphrase We even touched on the origin of Jackie’s iconic catchphrase “oh my” and his thoughts on the current state of the magic world. It’s a mix of excitement for the accessibility of magic today and a call for preserving the discipline and mystery that makes magic so special. Endless Chain Xavier Mortimer Calen Morelli Matt Pitchford Mentions The International Brotherhood of Magicians Jeff McBride’s Card Manipulation Course Links https://www.instagram.com/jekiyoo https://www.jekiyoo.com/  

In this episode of the “Discourse in Magic” podcast, host Jonah Babins discusses the ten-hour rule for running a magic business. He advises magicians to limit administrative work to ten hours a week to focus on performance and creativity. Three ways to stop wasting time: Ineffective tasks should be stopped Effective tasks should be optimized or scaled with technology. Successful tasks may require hiring help. Assess your business activities and optimize or delegate tasks. Discourse in Magic Mastermind Send a message to [email protected] with the word SCALE and Jonah will send you the deets and see if it’s a fit to work together!

In this episode of “Discourse in Magic,” host Jonah Babins interviews Franz Harary, a renowned magician and illusion designer. Franz shares his magical journey, starting with a childhood magic set that sparked his interest in fooling adults and led to his passion for creating original illusions. A journey into magic and illusion design Franz recounts his early experiments with cardboard and duct tape, his inspiration from Doug Henning, and his innovative approach to making a car appear, which he later sold to famous magicians. He recalls a pivotal moment when, at 16, he ingeniously used perspective to make a car appear out of thin air—a method he later sold to renowned magicians like David Copperfield and Criss Angel. Working with Michael Jackson and other artists Franz also discusses his time working with Michael Jackson on the Victory Tour and his subsequent career as an illusion designer for various pop stars and Broadway shows. This leap of faith catapulted him into the limelight, and he quickly became known as the young kid who designs illusions for the stars. Understanding one’s identity as an artist Franz emphasizes the importance of understanding who you are as a magician, the message you convey, and the need to push the boundaries of magic alongside technological advancements. For Franz, his message has been about equality and empowerment, showing audiences that they too can achieve the seemingly impossible. Pushing the art form forward Franz encourages magicians to take risks, be unique, and continually innovate. He shares a piece of advice from Michael Jackson that has become his mantra: “Whatever you do, do it differently and better than anybody else.” This is what transforms a craftsman into an artist.   ——- Franz’s only ask is that you follow him on his Facebook page – here it is: https://www.facebook.com/franzhararyfanpage/   Endless Chain Bruce Gold Mentions https://ronsaylor.com/ https://www.facebook.com/saylormagic/  

In this episode of “Discourse in Magic,” host Jonah Babins shares the exciting news about the podcast’s return. Listeners can look forward to fresh interviews and episodes covering a wide range of topics within the magic community. Jonah’s “Fool Us” Jonah discusses his recent experiences, including his appearances on the television show “Fool Us.” He also encourages fellow magicians to seize the opportunity and apply to be on the show. Free Training Resource for Magicians A new free training resource is introduced by Jonah, designed to help magicians increase their business success. This tool is aimed at magicians looking to elevate their professional endeavors. How to get more Reviews, Referrals, and Rebookings: https://discourseinmagic.com/double-your-referrals-reviews-and-rebookings/ Growth of a Secret Magic Convention Jonah recounts the expansion of a secret magic convention, sharing insights into its development and what it offers to the magic community. Consulting Work with Asi Wind The episode delves into Jonah’s consulting work with Asi Wind, providing a glimpse into his role and contributions to the magic scene. Lectures and Performances Jonah talks about his extensive travels for lectures and performances. He shares his experiences and the knowledge he has gained from engaging with magicians around the world. Mastermind Group Invitation If you’re already at 25k per month or more in your magic business and want to scale to 6 figures and far beyond I might be able to help. Send me a message to [email protected] with the word MASTERMIND and I can walk you through what it looks like to work together and see if I can help! THANKS for returning back, it’s been a pleasure to be back in your earlobes. Looking forward to more fun together.    

Jonah returns from the wild to let you know that tomorrow, November 9 2023, he and Ben Train will be appearing for the second time on Penn & Teller’s Fool Us!   In this special magic appetizer, Jonah offers up the three biggest lessons he learned on his second appearance of Fool Us and why you should apply to appear on this show or any other. Lesson 1: Getting Back On The Show Jonah and Ben’s second appearance on Fool Us is a very different story than the first time last year. This time they had much less time to prepare and the trick they were rehearsing was originally designed for a different show altogether. Jonah shares what he and Ben had to do to apply to Fool Us, listen to the feedback from the producers, and modify what they were pitching so they’d be accepted back. Lesson 2: The Week Of Jonah and Ben made a huge mistake the week of their second appearance on Fool Us. That huge mistake was attending the Magic Live convention. It’s an amazing convention but with Fool Us on their minds neither Jonah or Ben could really enjoy the convention and with the distraction of Magic Live they weren’t able to properly prepare for their appearance on Fool Us. If he had to do it again Jonah would have made sure to keep his head clear in the week leading up to Fool Us and he offers his insight on what you should do in the final days before appearing on any show Lesson 3: The Day Of You might recall that last year when Jonah and Ben first appeared on Fool Us they had a stressful rehearsal where the ribbon they used around the watermelon broke. Back then the producers were calm and collected, offered some advice, and the two of them were able to successfully perform in front of Penn & Teller. This year they thought their rehearsal went really well but this time the producers approached them with a concern that the photographs they were using, which were integral to the entire trick, were using a colour that the cameras weren’t able to capture.   With only three hours until taping, Jonah and Ben had to scramble to create new pictures, get them printed, and all the other secret arts and crafts that had to be done to make the trick work.   So what should you do when everything starts to go wrong just before the cameras are rolling? Jonah shares his insight on those final moments on the day of their shoot. This Friday! If you want to find out if Jonah and Ben successfully fooled Penn & Teller you can watch their appearance on tomorrow’s broadcast on The CW!   Jonah will be back to recording more interviews and lessons for you in the coming months but until then if you’re thinking of applying to appear on a show like Fool Us, you should!

Jonah is joined by Juan Esteban Varela, a master at performing without props. Juan is the mind behind Magic in the Dark and in this conversation he talks all about it, about magic without props, and shares his personal story through magic and how wonderful it is. Moving to Madrid Like many others, Juan got bit by the magic bug at a very young age and never looked back. He’s so immersed in his love of magic he says that he can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t want to be in magic. Originally from Chile, and after studying for law “as a hobby”, he moved to Madrid to chase down and connect with the Spanish magical community there. The openness of the community allowed Juan to settle in comfortably and he shares with Jonah some of his memories as a young magician going from lecture to party to hangouts and learning from the best magicians in the region. It was during this time that he began asking questions about how magic can change. How important is it that we see for it to still be magic? How should you feel? How should you react? Nothing bothers Juan more, it seems, than when someone tells him how skilled he is or how amazing an idea his show was. Nothing short of “that was impossible” will satisfy him. Magic in the Dark Realizing that senses were just a means to an end, Juan developed a show called Magic in the Dark where audience members and himself wear blindfolds and the entire routine is performed entirely in darkness. Juan explains how you don’t need to deceive all the senses for magic to work and break down his core pillars to create any effect. All you need is to create a mystery, stimulate the imagination, and finally connect it to emotion. Nowhere in those three things does it suggest that you have to see! Magic Without Props Juan loves studying the principles of magic and using those principles to examine his methods to create incredible effects. And if, like Jonah, you’re having a difficult time imagining how a propless sightless magic effect can be possible Juan helps us out by performing a trick he usually saves for radio interviews. It’s an effective demonstration that should open up your mind to realizing the possibilities of magic without props. After all this talk about props one shouldn’t assume that Juan is averse to technology. He has a lot of thoughts about technology and how it’s affecting magic and is excited to share with Jonah his latest ideas about VR, AR, and using technology to move magic into new possibilities. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Roberto Mansilla What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? The community has gotten much bigger. Even having this conversation on this podcast wouldn’t have happened not too long ago. The community is everyone now, this is great! Magic is expanding the frontiers of expression. The love of the secret has been lost. It used to be that the secret was sacred but it seems like now, especially since the community is so large, everyone wants to share their secrets right away. It would be great if we could recover the love of the secret in some way. Plugs You can follow Juan on Instagram @juan.e.varela Juan’s website is jvarela.com

In this magical appetizer, Jonah makes a case for counting tricks. Love them or hate them Jonah is convinced that they should be a staple trick in your roster and lays out his reasons why. Specifically we are discussing one type of card trick, the counting card trick, where you end up counting to a number. It could be any number, a card, a position, weighing the cards, or an actual trick where you are dealing lots of cards. Misconceptions of Counting Tricks Maybe, when you hear counting tricks, you immediately think of some of the problematic counting tricks like the 21 Card Trick. What we are hopefully going to express to you in this episode is that most of the challenges that you have with counting tricks are actually with dealing tricks. Those are tricks where you are dealing for a long period of time without any justification for why you’re doing it. If you don’t have a reason for the actual counting through the cards then what you’re doing is boring and, for the most part, audiences are smart and they know when you are dealing through a deck, over and over and over again, that there’s some sort of mathematical mumbo jumbo going on. You probably know of a couple of tricks that are mathematical card tricks in nature, and they probably deal with lots and lots of dealing, and those are not the ones that we are making a case for. We are making a case for when you count and you get closer and closer to the number. Embedded Suspense Jonah likes to do a multi-phase weighing the card trick where he ends up counting through more than half of the deck multiple times and people go crazy. Usually if you’re doing a card trick you want to build a little bit of suspense. Maybe someone picks a card, they shovel inside the deck, you get a card out, and then they name the card and you look at the card and maybe pause for a second and look at them. You’re trying to build this drama, trying to manufacture drama by not just turning over the dang card. If a card is at a position, like the 21st position for example, you actually have to count one by one by one to get to that position. There is no other way to get there. So instead of there being manufactured drama, which an audience can feel, now there is built in drama. The best example outside of card magic is the nest of boxes. As you’re opening a box and a smaller box in a smaller box, in a smaller box, getting closer and closer to what is going on, there is anticipation and excitement and the suspense is building because there’s no other way for you to get to that smallest box in the middle, aside from opening the biggest and then the next, and the next, and the next. There’s no faking that kind of drama, it’s built into the magic. Becoming The Conductor One big thing in magic that Jonah is a big fan of is the rhythm in magic. When somebody is picking a card, when you’re returning it, and when you’re building suspense, there is rhythm. Quite literally, the drama gets closer and closer and closer. You can imagine and draw out the rhythm of what a trick looks like. There’s rhythm built into different magic tricks. Imagine you tear a card once and then you tear it again and then you put your hands together and then, boom, it restores. There’s rhythm to those moments, how long you want to pause between each thing. With counting card tricks you become the conductor of that rhythm. You can decide at what pace you are getting towards the punchline, the climax. You get to conduct the rhythm of how people respond. You can get louder as you get closer to the number or you can go slower as you get closer to the number. The point is, you can really decide how people are experiencing the punchline of this trick. If the card is the 30th, you have to deal 30 cards. There’s no other way to get there but you can decide exactly how you want to arrive there and take the audience with you. Invite Jonah To Your Next Magic Lecture This episode is an excerpt from Jonah’s lecture notes, which you can only see if he lectures in your city. So if you want Jonah to lecture in your city, and you want to get some lecture notes, then you can send an e-mail to [email protected] and we will see if we can make our way to your city in 2024.

Jonah is joined by Dustin Dean, an incredible mentalist who you may have seen on your TikTok feed. He has over half a million followers and countless videos with millions of views. In this conversation we’ll learn all about his success, how you can get into growing your social media presence, and how to thread the line between fooling your audience and being honest with them. The Mentalist on The Screen Dustin’s first influential exposure and interest in magic really came into focus when he encountered one of Darren Brown’s television shows. Seeing someone call themselves a mentalist and appear to explain the method of what they were doing was the catalyst for Dustin into understanding all the possibilities that magic could express itself as. Most of the early magic that Dustin learned was through YouTube and in the beginning it was just Dustin and the internet. It was there that he learned his first card tricks before being introduced to magic clubs and the wider world of the magical community. His big break came from a haircut where, while showing off what we could do to the staff at the barber shop, an agent happened to be there who was looking for more acts to book for the college circuit. You Don’t Have To Be A Magician (To Go Viral) At first Dustin threw himself into social media magic but now he’s mostly known on social media as one who debunks psychics and he’s learned that he doesn’t have to be so restricted to grow on social media. In his conversation with Jonah he shares the lessons and insights he’s learned creating multiple accounts and seeing many of his posts grow to millions of views with millions of followers. Does his social media footprint translate into bookings? Not exactly but Dustin explains how he views his social media work and how it can surprise him in the long run what doors it’s been able to open and what clients he’s been able to secure. The Honest Liars Dustin has a massive following for his debunking of physics and mediums. Why does he feel so driven to do all the research to expose them? And what does he think about other mentalists who don’t warn their audiences that what they are experiencing is not actually real? Dustin has given a lot of thought into the ethics of mentalism and it’s effect on how it shapes the thoughts of people in the audience and he dives deep with Jonah into the world of debunking and mentalism and lets us into his reasons into why he does what he does. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Joel Myers What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? It’s getting more thinking about how it’s done or how it could be possible. Because of Google and social media a lot of people are figuring out how magic tricks work. This is not to say that exposure for the sake of exposure is a good thing but it is nice to see people learning and showing interest and, in a way, pushing magic forward to think of new avenues and ways to fool people. It’s not great that there is so much exposure just for the attention. Exposure videos are a very low level form of attention. It’s an easy dumb way to get views and attention and doesn’t really add much value. Plugs Dustin can be found everywhere with the same handle @DustinDeanMentalist. You can find him on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, and at dustindeanmentalist.com

In this magic appetizer Jonah offers up three ways that you can grow your business to making more than 3k a month in the next six months. In the past Jonah has taught master classes and entry-level classes for magicians looking to increase their business and in this episode he’s going to share his insights on the three biggest mistakes that new magicians make when starting their business and what fixes you can do so that you can be well on your way. Mistake #1: Pricing This is one of the most common mistakes that magicians are making. They’re charging something like $200 or $150 for their gigs. The problem with this is that it is very hard to reach critical mass. It’s very hard to get to $3,000 a month at $300 bookings. You need to do 10 shows a month and 10 shows a month is a lot, especially if you are getting started. The only magicians that get away with charging two, three, or even four hundred are the ones that are doing countless kids parties every single weekend, like four a weekend or more, because that’s the only way that they can actually make those numbers. If you are getting started, you should aim at the $500 to $1000 range. The reality is that you can now get to your 3k to 5k a month in three to six bookings a month. If people are inquiring and asking you about your rates you should start at $500 and work your way up to $1000. You can do this by slowly increasing your rates. You can do this by having multiple different packages and multiple offerings, like a short show and a long show, or a show plus mingling magic. You can come up with some different options, but aim at the $500 to $1000 per gig range. That way you get it done in three to five gigs a month. The only thing that’s stopping you from charging $500 to $1000 per gig is in your head. The key to actually getting to critical mass, to getting enough gigs under your belt, is to make enough per gig so that it is worth your while and you can actually start this part-time business. Mistake #2: Your Leads Leads is another word for the inquiries or people asking about you or anybody who wants to hire you for a magic show. One of the biggest challenges with magicians who are getting started is that their way of getting leads is by crossing their fingers and hoping. That is not a way to generate bookings or a way to bring people into your world. There are tons of practical, tactical ways to get people into your universe, but you have to be doing them. Some common, popular ways to get leads include mail outreach, cold calling, Google Ads, SEO (Search Engine optimization), generating content for your socials, signing up to gig sites, and Facebook ads. If you pick just one of them and do it every single day for 30 days you’ll have a terrific source for generating leads. Mistake #3: Marketing Material Far too many magicians websites have one of these two big no-nos. First is a random headshot. Just photos of yourself with spread cards or cards in your hands does nothing for you. It won’t convince anybody that you are good at this. Second are stock photos of magicians and top hats and things that aren’t you. You probably don’t use a top hat when you do your gigs, you probably don’t dress in a tuxedo, and you probably do not have a rabbit. Instead, what they’re looking to see is actual photos of you doing the thing. If you’re pitching yourself to do company events, it’s photos of you working at company events. If you’re pitching yourself to do bar mitzvahs and weddings, it’s photos of you doing bar mitzvahs and weddings. If you’re pitching to do birthday parties, you get the idea. You need photos of that. How do you get those photos? A million ways. Bring a photographer, ask the people there to take photos, take some photos yourself, bring a friend with you to take some photos with you. There are unlimited ways to do it and the same thing applies to video. One short video of you actually performing for the target market is going to do so much work. It’s gonna help you so much. The clients need proof, and if you’re charging now more than you would’ve been charging before, then one of the big things you’re going to need is proof. Do not fill your website with random headshot photos that you did with a photographer. Do not fill your website with stock photos of magicians. Fill your website with photos of you doing the thing for the people you do the thing for, and videos of you doing the thing for the people that you do the thing for. Level Up Your Magic Business Those are the three biggest areas that you should be working on to get you to 3-5k a month. If you’re already at 3-5k a month and you want to get to six figures a year, you can send Jonah an email to [email protected] with the word “Mastermind” and you can talk with him about working together and seeing if he can get you there faster.