Discourse in Magic

In this magic appetizer Jonah offers up three things that you may want to think about when you are creating magic, making routines, and putting stuff out in the world. #1: Clarity Comes from Action and Not Thought When you are coming up with an idea or when you are working on something, it rarely feels like you’re gaining ground when you are just sitting there thinking about stuff. You only gain ground when you do the thing, you have to actually put something down on the drawing board and do something and then you’ve got something to play with. When you actually do the thing, you grow a little bit more attached to it and you start to see the idea for what it really is. As soon as you can do the thing, do it for real people. Maybe do it for a friend, maybe record a video of yourself doing it or trying it, even if it feels too early, you don’t need to publish it and share it with a million people, you just have to find a place to do the thing. Whether it’s an open mic night, whether it’s doing it for a friend, or whether it’s just videoing it and doing it for yourself, clarity comes from action and not thought. You will not think your way out of a problem. #2: Limitation Breeds Creativity It can be impossible to create when you have nothing that you can draw on. In the past any growth that Jonah has ever had in his show has come from one of two things. They’ve ever come from a deadline or it comes from an obvious hole that is in his act. You will be way more likely to actually pull something together when you have a box that you’re trying to work within. Aim to solve a problem and get it done by a deadline. The more limitations that you have, the more likely it is that you’re going to actually produce something. Do not give yourself endless time for endless options to come up with something or you will end up with nothing. #3: The Best Ideas Come From Past Ideas It is so much easier to reach back into something that you’ve already done in some way and modify it than it will be to come up with something brand new. It’s kind of like a paradox that you have to draw on stuff that you’ve already done to come up with something new because then how do you come up with something new if you’re already drawing on stuff that you’ve already done? To get past this, find a low stakes environment that you can play and you can try things at. Go get some first drafts there and out of the way so that when you actually have to create something you have examples to draw on that you’ve actually laid a little bit of the groundwork that you can pull from. So whether you’re getting a chance to perform on open mic nights, or you are putting out a video, you want to get some of these first drafts under your belt so that when the time comes that you want to actually create something and fill those gaps you’ll be ready for it. You’re not starting completely fresh, but you’re pulling from a short list of ideas that you have used before. Having a low stakes place to actually try stuff is great, not just so that you can try, but so that later you can draw on it. Find a place to come up with those first draft ideas so that later when the time comes, when it’s important, you have some first drafts that you can pull from and then start working on and tweaking and playing with.

Jonah is joined by David Gerard, a magician who started later in life after a career working in silicon valley marketing for startups. David’s unique background and experiences blends perfectly with Jonah’s interests and curiosity in this conversation that covers everything from how to face the harsh reality of criticism and examining what it feels like to be fooled, to discussions on marketing yourself for corporate events, retaining your clients, and how to grow your magic business. Making a Choice to Be Amazed David remembers vividly his first encounter with magic and shares with us the story of how his dad took him to see a magician and made the decision that day not to pick the trick apart but embrace the choice to be amazed. David took that amazement and carried it with him as he grew up. It didn’t really start there though as David would go on to work for Google and eventually move on to marketing with startups around the Seattle area. Magic was always there in the background but he’s an admitted late bloomer to the life of a professional magician. This means now, of course, that when he performs at a corporate event he can literally speak their language and knows how to connect with that audience. The Magic (and Science) of Gratitude David is passionate about mindfulness and meditation and he shares with us lessons he’s learned and the questions he’s asked himself as he continues to perform. He also encourages every magician to examine why they’re on the stage in the first place, to understand what it means to be fooled (and how that isn’t always a positive experience for people), and being clear about your wants and desires. Marketing To Your Expertise In the later half of this conversation Jonah and David deep dive into marketing your show. David offers up advice on how to get your time on stage, how to handle criticism, and the importance of choosing carefully who you get your advice from. Does your show have to be original? Or is it more important that your connection to the audience is authentic? How vital is it to study the classics versus breaking out to invent your own routine? And when you have that all sorted out how do you market yourself to event planners and agents who are booking magicians for their next event? David shares his ideas on how to retain those relationships with those event planners, where to find corporate gigs, and important tips to retain those gigs while also sourcing new ones. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Eric Mead What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? A lot of people are getting exposed to magic now and there is better magic out there now. It’s really great that people are so welcoming and so sharing and the secrets aren’t that far away now. However, there are less and less places to get stage time which is the number one thing that makes you good and that’s really sad. Plugs David’s primary page is gerardmagic.com and you can stay in touch with him on Instagram at @davidgerardmagic

Today Jonah talks about how to sell tickets to your public magic show by offering up four ways that you can use to sell out your public ticketed magic show. Tip #1: Submit to Listings This is an easy one, an obvious one, and one that you should always be doing. submit to listings all over your city. There are journals, newspapers, online news places, places that actually have event submissions. If you search for things to do in your city you will find all of the websites that have recommendations for what to do this weekend. All of those listings accept submissions. They’ll accept information about different ideas for what to do in your location. So if you make a list of all of the different listings or places that you can list events in your city, then it’s very, very easy whenever you launch your show. One by one, submit your show to every single listing for them to list in the things to do category, and you’re gonna get a lot of traffic from there because people are looking for what to do. People get pretty excited when they get to go see a magic show in your city, and it’s a pretty easy way for them to know about it. Tip #2: Share on Social Media Maybe this seems obvious to you, but a lot of the times when people put on public shows, they post one poster or something like that, and that is it. Keep the public up to date, post posters, post photos, post videos, post information, and most importantly let them know when tickets are almost sold out. People love to buy things when they know that other people have already bought them. So as well as trying to sell your first few tickets on social media you should also be aiming to sell the last few tickets. Help encourage your audience, your fans, to actually get tickets to come and see the show. Plus, the people in your world really like to see the behind the scenes. How is your show getting made? How are you getting your venue? How are you getting prepared? How are you? Get people really excited about the show and get them to know the behind the scenes. Tip #3: Run Facebook Ads Facebook ads are great because you can target exactly the right people. You can say that you want people that are within 10 miles of a particular location or for people that are only interested in specific types of things. Whatever you’re thinking, give that a try. There’s no right or wrong answer. Some searches that Jonah likes to use are people that are interested in theater, entertainment, art galleries, magic people that like David Blaine, or people that like America’s Got Talent. A great direction to target is using search terms that sort of feel like they’re in the same realm as what you do. If you target the right people with the right ads, and if you have all of the tracking set up correctly, then you’re gonna know how many tickets exactly are sold from your Facebook ads. Tip #4: Get On Local News Send a press release telling all of the local news stations, just like you did all of the event submissions, telling them that you have a public magic show. If you give them the details, and you do it every time, then you may be surprised by who wants to bring you on their morning show. They’re always looking for fun, interesting stuff to bring on the show and magic is the most fun and interesting thing. You’ll get to perform for the hosts of the show and then you get to promote your event. Even though young people maybe don’t watch the morning news a lot, there are still a lot of people who do. A lot of people get their news and their ideas for things to do from these programs. So reach out to things like radio shows in your city and morning shows on local tv. Send messages and tell them that you have a public show. Follow Up With Jonah If you need help accomplishing any of these things then feel free to send Jonah an email at [email protected]. And if you’ve ever gotten a nugget of value out of this show, it would mean the universe if you left a review in the podcast app of your choice.

Jonah is joined by FISM winner Markobi where they talk all about what it takes to win a competition, what it’s like to work with a team, and what it’s like to work alone. Free Videos and Social Media Markobi learned his first magic tricks from those very same free youtube channels that magicians in the industry today can’t stand. From those videos he started following the names that kept showing up in the comments and began connecting with more and more people doing anything he could to speak to magicians on social media. From there it was up to him to take the train to Paris and start meeting these magicians in person. Markobi speaks candidly with Jonah about how important those early days of networking and connection were to figuring out what kind of magician he wanted to become. The Road To FISM In this conversation Markobi shares with Jonah who his inspirations were for his grand champion win at FISM 2022. He talks about what it’s like to work on a team, and some of the misconceptions you may have about what it means to be on a competition magic team, it’s a lot more alone time than you may think. Most magicians are quick to point out that Markobi’s FISM performance is very funny for magicians and seems particularly tailored to that particular audience and environment. With Jonah, Markobi gets into the considerations he made when scripting his world champion performance and how he tailors his jokes for the audience he has. He also offers up advice on how you should handle your time at a competition you’re competing in. Finally, Markobi catches us up on how his life has changed post FISM. The work he’s doing now and how winning the grand prize at FISM isn’t the end of the road but just the very beginning for him. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Alain Simonov What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? A lot of magicians are keeping to the basics and old techniques despite the rise and lure of modern technology. Even new discoveries are being found by studying old books and continuing old traditions of magic. Even young magicians are not forgetting about the past but looking to it for inspiration, which is very surprising. The importance of mentalism is very boring. It’s not always bad but everyone wants to do it and there’s a lot more bad mentalism than good mentalism. Too many mentalists are just following trends. Plugs Since FISM, Markobi’s youtube channel has been reopened at youtube.com/@Markobi1 On Instagram, take note that you add the extra “m” at the end of his name at instagram.com/markobim If you’re following those two channels you’ll be the first to know when Markobi’s book is ready!

Jonah invites you to join in on his mastermind course where you can scale up your magic business. Join The Mastermind Jonah is re-opening up the doors for the Mastermind this month, and he’s looking for five magicians who want to add 3k to 5k per month to their magic business in the next 90 days. All of the tips, all of the magician appetizers that you see coming out on this podcast, with practical magic business advice, come right from the Mastermind training. If you want Jonah’s help, not only with this step-by-step information with templates and scripts that you can copy for your magic business, but also for him to hold your hand and guarantee that you’re going to scale and add 3k to 5k a month to your magic business, this might be for you. Five Things You Need You need five things to be a good fit for this. Number one, you need to already have a show or mingling magic that you are confident in. This is not a magic coaching program, this is a business coaching program for professional magicians. Number two, you need to already be making at least 25k a year in your magic business. We help people scale from 50k to 200k but you already need to have gotten started. That means you’ve got things like a website, you’ve got a business, you’ve got a couple of the things in place that are ready to help you scale. Number three, you need to have time for three to five more company or private events every single month. If you don’t have the time, then there’s no way that this would be a fit. So it’s important that you have the time. Number four, you are friendly and coachable. You will be welcomed into the Mastermind family and it’s very important that you are both of those things. And number five, you can keep a secret. Here’s What To Do If you are all of those things then send a message to [email protected] with the word SCALE and Jonah will send you the deets and see if it’s a fit to work together. Jonah will be back next week with another epic interview coming your way.

Jonah is joined by Jason Suran who shares his advice on how to build lasting relationships to support your magic business. Jason is a mentalist based in New York and has done a ton of work on TV and company gigs and has even performed for four NBA teams. He gives us tips on how to grow a loyal group of clients and shares stories on what has gone great and what has gone wrong and takes us behind the scenes on what it’s like to perform for Speakeasy Magic. Stuffing Playbills to Perfecting Mentalism Jason shares two stories of how he came to find magic, the first is the rehearsed answer he tells all his audiences and the second he shares with you about what really happened. It all comes down to being too broke to afford a seat in the Players Theatre in New York and agreeing to stuff the playbills with surveys at the back of the room night after night so he could see the shows being performed. Jason attended NYU to study television and film but he shares why he left that behind for the world of magic and mentalism and offers his insights to the ethics of mentalism and how much you should or should not let your audience believe how real the performance is. These days you can find Jason performing regularly at Speakeasy Magic which has become an invaluable opportunity to perfect magic and mentalism performances in consistent conditions. The McKittrick Hotel is the sort of place where he can expect the same lights, same smoke, same everything every single night for years and it’s given him every conceivable advantage. Keep listening and you’ll hear about some behind the scenes experiences at Speakeasy and other venues he’s performed at as Jason offers up some insight into how different and difficult magicians have it compared to other artforms. If You Want Press, You Have To Do Shows From appearing on news programs like The Social here in Canada to performing for NBA teams and establishing a long lasting engagement with Speakeasy Magic there’s one connecting thread that binds all those successes together. Jason makes a strong point to the value of staying in touch with every client, going so far as to set up google alerts to anniversaries and other milestone events. Clients overtime become friends and it’s always worth it to shoot of an email every so often to remind them what you’re up to. Almost every major engagement that Jason can remember can be linked back to his “scrappy list” of emails and the energy he spent to build genuine connections. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Eli Bosnick: Talk to him about building communities in magic. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? There is a large impulse to make it meaningful, honest, and vulnerable. Thanks to Derek DelGaudio’s show we now have a model for it now for the first time in a hundred years. There’s a tremendous amount of mentalists who learned the wrong lessons from Derren Brown, who saw what Derren did and missed the point. They think that if they lie they’ll be awesome. The psychology presentations were always aesthetic additions but Derren is an awesome performer despite that. Too many mentalists believe that the audience needs to believe the bullshit. Take home point Be open to every opportunity and every person you meet and be honest with yourself about where you want it to take you. Plugs Instagram is the best way, @jasonsuran Website: jasonsuran.com Jason performs at the Mckittrick Hotel’s Speakeasy Magic regularly and has a residency at the SoHo House

Jonah offers up the world’s shortest but most effective business tip towards booking a client. There is a very famous email in the world of marketing, called Dean Jackson’s 9 Word Email, and Jonah breaks down why it works so well and how you can adapt it to the world of magic. For more help like this be sure to sign up for Jonah’s e-mail at discourseinmagic.com/updates

Laura London is a legend in the magic community. She’s been on Penn & Teller’s Fool Us and The Next Great Magician. She’s had her own show, Cheat, in the Edinburgh Fringe. She’s an Inner Magic Circle member of the Magic Circle and she shares her incredible story and upbringing into the way of magic and how you can build a show too. In this discussion Laura opens up about her early diagnoses with ADHD as a child and how that led to her mother’s support in her creative pursuits and an early encounter with magic legend George Kovari. She takes us through her teenage years when she left home and lived rough on the streets performing magic wherever she could and yet overcame the odds to become the youngest member of the Magic Circle on her 18th birthday. From having no degrees or completing any formal education she’s now working as the librarian of the Magic Circle. She didn’t accomplish all this on her own though and shares the story about how Fay Presto became her mentor and taught her all about how to be an entertainer. She’ll share with you the lessons she’s learned on how to find your grit and get out and just do it as well as offering advice on how to track down and book a residency of your own. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Richard McDougal & Paul Kieve What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? We are encouraging more and more people in a positive way, especially young girls. I’m seeing more and more young teenagers coming up to me at conventions and they’re good! We’re in good hands. I would love to encourage more young people to get into the history of magic. Plugs For all the magic that Laura has already released visit lauralondonmagic.co.uk Learn more about the pioneering work being done at Breathe Magic by visiting breatheahr.org Check out the Midnights playing cards by Breathe Magic at most online stores, one such listing we found is here at VanishingMagic.com

Jonah dives into artificial intelligence and how it can potentially help you out with your magic business. In this magician’s appetizer he’ll touch on three ways to use AI in your magic business including how to fix your replies to clients, help drive more traffic to your website, and how maximize the effectiveness of your cold emails. You can check out ChatGPT right now, for free, and try these tips out for yourself. If you’d like help doing any of this stuff you can always email Jonah at [email protected] with the term “AI” in the subject.

This week Jonah is joined by sideshow and magic legend Todd Robbins. Todd has had an action packed career that has sent him around the the last of the sideshows to creating theatre productions alongside Teller to running what may be the greatest magic show that has ever existed, Speakeasy Magic at the McKittrick Hotel. In this conversation Todd shares with Jonah how he ended up learning sideshow as a kid to eventually befriending Penn & Teller. He offers up the lessons he’s learned when creating shows for theatre and helps explain the difference between entertainment and art. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Erika Larsen, Blaise Serra, Matt Holtzclaw, & Prakash Puru What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? The greatest level of technique in the history of magic is going on right now thanks to the internet and the sharing of ideas. There’s more magic now than there has ever been and yet it’s not making an impact that an old television special would do. Take home point Create something that has content. Create something that the audience hasn’t seen before. Plugs Find out more about Speakeasy Magic at mckittrickhotel.com

Jonah connects with Kim Andersen, a comedy magician from Denmark who has created some unforgettable magic products. In this conversation he’ll share with Jonah how he found himself immersed in the Danish magic scene, how he found himself creating content for his own television show, how he goes about challenging himself to keep creating, and why he always carries coins into the shower. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Jan Hellesøe is one of the biggest mentalists in Denmark with heaps of tv shows behind him and works closely with big magicians and theatre as a builder. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? Does not like the piracy of magic content. Folks should respect creators more. Creating magic will only continue if people actually get credited and paid for what they do. That said, Kim really appreciates the internet. It’s been one of the greatest tools to learn magic and network with other magicians. Take home point Have fun and play. Plugs The best place to reach out to Kim is through instagram: @kimander5en You can get Silver Edge 1 & 2 at ellusionist.com You can find his Penguin live lecture over at penguinmagic.com And you can find his product, Shrapnel, almost any place where magic products are sold! Finally, you can learn more about Magic Beep by visiting pegani.dk

This week Jonah connects with magic inventor and creative genius Tobias Dostal. Tobias is creating stuff that is not unlike anything you have ever seen before with tricks like Silhouette, Ping, and Stay Cool. In this conversation Tobias shares with Jonah his background in visual arts, his love of photography, and how he was able to use his unique background and interests to carve a new path for magic for everyone. You’ll learn about how to create, how to get inspiration, and what to do with a studio, with deadlines, and limitations. Wrap-Up Endless Chain John Steiner. An amazing magician who currently lives in Spain. An elegant magician with sleight of hand that is really well thought through. He’s never satisfied with routines and is always searching for the perfect thing. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? While attending conventions Tobias is amazed at how many more women are involved in the magic scene. Tobias thinks people should find their thing and take their thing rather than using styles and creations by other magicians. Take home point It’s great if you look for new magic tricks that aren’t classics. Leave your house without the deck of cards. Plugs Tobias has a gallery at KWADRAT Berlin: http://www.kwadrat-berlin.com/artists/tobias-dostal You can also learn more about Tobias at https://www.tobiasdostal.com/ And follow Tobias on instagram at @tobias_dostal And check out his gumroad listing at https://dostalgy.gumroad.com/

Jonah is back with all new episodes of Discourse in Magic! After taking time off after the busy holiday season, Jonah has been busy touring and attending events around the country and beyond. In this episode he’ll catch you up on his lecture and performance tours as well as filling you in on his experiences attending Magifest and Blackpool. Jonah will also offer up tips on how to launch your own performance tour and what you can do to help grow your magic business during the slowest time of the year. If you’d like to learn more about booking the “Ben & Jonah Mean Business” lecture or would like to join up for one of the remaining seats available in Jonah’s six-figure mastermind course then e-mail Jonah at [email protected], and be sure to include the word “intensive” in the subject if you’re interested in that mastermind course!

Jonah is joined by Siegfried & Joy. This duo from Germany has been taking the world by storm with their silly and engaging TikTok videos, an hilarious performance on America’s Got Talent, and sold out shows wherever they go. They’ll reveal to Jonah all of their secrets, except where they get their fabulous outfits! More Than A Parody When you first see Siegfried & Joy appear on stage you may begin to think that they are a parody of magic but if you were to listen to them you’d realize that while they are certainly having a lot of fun with the imagery of what classic magic has looked like in the past they are earnest about their love of the artform and take their presentation with the crowd very seriously. Siegfried & Joy share with Jonah their philosophy behind their performance. They don’t practice, they don’t script, and they never rehearse. To them the real work begins and ends with the interaction with the crowd. It is in the crowd that they find their performance and perfect their act. Not Afraid To Fail No scripts means high risk but Siegfried & Joy are quick to admit that they aren’t afraid to fail, even when they fail live on stage in front of an audience or mistakenly flash their work on a TikTok video. In fact, to hear it from them it sounds like they fail all the time on stage and where other performers would go backstage and burst into tears they, instead, embrace the messy side of live acts and allow their audience a brief glimpse behind the curtain as they work to recover the show. More Than A Success Two Siegfried & Joy shows are never the same, they are constantly re-working their routine in front of the audience and often involve the crowd in their performances. They share with Jonah their secret to building up such a chaotic style of performance into a show that is now regularly sold out in Berlin. They’ll also share why they decided not to continue into the next round of America’s Got Talent and what they loved and hated about their visit to Las Vegas. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Tobias Dostal What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? “We hate online shows, we watched a few but we don’t think this is how artists should share this art. “ “We love that the zeitgeist is on board with classical magic. This is the best time for magic. This is the moment to go out, inspire people, and make them happy.” Take home point There is one name you should remember: Siegfried & Joy Plugs Just google Siegfried & Joy. “And if you don’t find us then the algorithm will find you!”

Jonah and Ben answer all your questions about how they got their appearance on Penn and Teller’s Fool Us, and how you can get yours too. How Did We Get On? Ben had actually been approached before as his name was passed around as a potential candidate, but back then when he applied they declined. As years went on and Jonah and Ben found themselves locked down together during the pandemic they decided to work together and apply a duo act, a new pairing that they hadn’t tried before but found they enjoyed working together. Jonah and Ben share with you how they worked together as a team to invent the trick they performed on Fool Us and how they have worked out their dynamics as they’ve moved from solo performances to a duo act. How Did We Pick The Trick? How did they pick the trick they performed on Fool Us? They didn’t! At first Ben and Jonah submitted their tricks they were doing for their virtual Zoom shows. The response from the show producers was that they liked their energy but the tricks needed tweaking. Ultimately their answer would lie in their Youtube series diving into the Tarbell books in magic. In that series Jonah and Ben would each challenge each other to find a different Tarbell trick and give it a modern twist. It was from that series that the Watermelon Trick was born. Jonah and Ben break down the entire process of developing the Watermelon Trick and what it was like auditioning it to the Fool Us producers, what worked, what didn’t, and what changed before it made it onto television. How Did We Prepare? Finally they had caught the interest of Fool Us, but unfortunately it was for a new trick they had never performed before. How did Jonah and Ben prepare to perform the Watermelon Trick in front of Penn & Teller? How did they work out what to say, where to stand, and where to look? They go over all the meticulous planning, practicing, and rehearsing that went into getting the trick up to the quality that they’d perform on Fool Us. Plugs Check out the Toronto Magic Company’s Youtube Channel to watch the performance on Fool Us as well as the Tarbell Challenge videos that started the journey to discovering the trick they performed for Penn & Teller. https://www.youtube.com/c/TorontoMagicCompany And check out Jonah’s previous conversation with Teller: https://discourseinmagic.com/a-life-of-magic-with-teller/

This week Jonah wants you to do one thing, which is to watch him and Ben Train perform on Pen & Teller’s Fool Us which airs for the first time on Friday November 4th, 2022!

Mortenn Christiansen is a Danish magician who recently won first place at FISM 2022 for comedy. He shares with Jonah his story about growing up without any magicians around him to aim higher and farther than even he originally thought he could accomplish. A Kid and a Magic Shop Mortenn was twelve when he discovered his local magic shop, eventually spending so much time there that they would offer him a job where he continues to work there to this day. At the shop he taught himself to learn English, since all the magic instructions he had were printed in english. At first he had no desire to perform, for Mortenn the magic was enough. Eventually, however, he would reach out and began performing in local competitions. It wouldn’t be long before he was winning so often that they would stop letting him compete just to be fair to the other competitors. Magicians Are Not Great Performers Mortenn challenges the notion that every magician should perform and recognizes that it’s really strange that this artform, compared to any other, almost mandates that everyone who wants to learn magic must also perform magic. Take away the secret behind the routine and most magicians struggle to be engaging performers, but this shouldn’t be a bad thing and Mortenn encourages everyone, including those who don’t feel like they would be strong performers, to still study and learn magic just for themselves. If you do decide to perform he offers up the lessons he’s learned himself and pushes everyone to keep their set original. It would be very weird to perform an exact copy of a comedy routine yet in the realm of magic it’s totally acceptable. Keep making stuff and working on original stuff and never let yourself feel like your trick is ever done and doesn’t need additional improvements or modifications. Keep working at it, and always aim higher. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Rune Klan What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? Likes the Zoom shows. Mortenn regrets not getting into Zoom shows but admires how well the magic community adapted to changing needs of both performer and audience. Does not like magicians who don’t think. Take home point Think better. Try to aim higher. It doesn’t have to fool magicians but thinking that it should fool a smart person. Do not assume that lay people are dumb. Plugs Instagram: @mortennmortenn You can also find Mortenn at Vanishing Ink’s conventions, The Session, in London, and Magifest in Ohio, USA both in January where he will be performing his FISM winning routine.

Jonah shares with you his secrets on how to get an extra 50 to 250 leads in Q4, the busiest time for a magician. The information in this episode comes directly from a two hour workshop that Jonah hosted. There are three simple things that you can do to earn you extra quality leads and in less then ten minutes you’ll be all caught up and ready to tackle the season ahead. If you don’t want to miss the next workshop then visit discourseinmagic.com/updates and sign up for the newsletter. Additionally, you should follow the Discourse in Magic Facebook group where you can be notified about future workshops and events. If you’d like to reach out to Jonah directly you should visit the Facebook page and message him the word “Leads” and that way he’ll know you came from this episode and will be able to see if he can help.  

This week Jonah connects with cardistry legend Franco Pascali. Franco is an amazing magician, thinker, and creator and he’ll share his secrets on how he develops his skills and grows his communities. Seeing Magic Young Magic found Franco when he would spend time with his fathers friends when they were playing card games. Even though none of these friends were magicians they all knew one basic trick. By the time Franco saw David Blaine on TV, he was already familiar with the basic concepts. As a kid, Franco was running up and down the playground trying to show everyone everything he knew. It wouldn’t be long before he’d audition for the Magic Castle Junior Academy, which would be the first time being around other magicians apart from the magic shop. Franco shares with Jonah all you’ve ever wanted to know about the Junior Academy and what it was like being a kid growing up in that environment. Anyone Can Do Magic Franco has a lot to say about learning magic and learning how to be creative. He doesn’t consider himself a naturally creative mind but truly believes in the power of practice and repetition. There are so many resources available online that if you’re willing to put in the work you’ll be able to develop your skills and be a decent magician. The trick is you have to be willing to put in the work! Playing and Having Fun Franco is prolific in the cardistry community, as well as being brought in as a consultant for cardistry on shows like Magic Camp. Franco has a lot of praise for cardistry and shares with Jonah why he loves cardistry and the differences it has between the magic community. Franco loves cards so much it’s no surprise that he launched his own card line, enter Cartelago, and he opens up on all the details and considerations that go into the design and construction of great card decks. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Tony Picaso, AKA the “Cardfather”, is an LA underground sensation in magic. He’s done many exclusive shows at the Magic Castle for many prestigious guests and he just oozes knowledge. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? I like that there are a lot of creative young people right now which has led to a lot of advancements in gimmick building. The modern gimmicks we have now are very exciting. I don’t like anything unauthentic in magic. I hate cheezyness. I hate stupid tiktok content. Take home point When it comes to performing magic and being a better magician, there’s been a lot of glorification of ideas without backing and for me the backing is the actual hours spent performing. Your audience is your best teacher. You also have to be fully fearless of failure. Failure has nothing to do with us. All we can do is our absolute best and then go do it with a good heart and good intentions and the rest does not matter and won’t matter to anybody watching. If you find a repertoire that you love… it’ll somehow show and it’ll be the best thing you do. Plugs Instagram: @francopascali If you’re interested in being part of a cool magic community that teaches free magic, follow @magicintel. This is a private account and when you follow you may be asked to DM a video of you doing magic. If you’re interested in getting playing cards check out @cartelago Finally, Franco just dropped his latest trick, “Disposition”, which you can find in the Theory11 store.

Jonah is back with an update on all the places he’s been since the last podcast update and brings with him some tips for you as magicians enter their busiest time of the year. Since the last time you heard from him Jonah has been all around the world, he attended the FISM 2022 World Cup in Quebec, he’s been to Barcelona, Israel, and Chicago. He shares all about his travels, what he learned, and what he was doing in each location. This time of year, October to December, is also the busiest time of the year for magicians. Jonah will share with you all you need to know to prepare for this period of busy business and if it would benefit you to get ready for Q4, be sure to sign up for Jonah’s workshop by signing up for the newsletter at discourseinmagic.com/updates In the mean time make sure you follow Jonah on Instagram, Facebook, and Youtube to get all the latest updates and offerings that he’s creating for you on an almost daily basis!

Jonah connects with magic consultant Blake Vogt. Together they walk through how to be creative, how to work with a team, and Blake shares some incredible stories from his time as a magic consultant. Dropping School To Work In Magic Blake loves telling the story of how he first came to learn about magic. It was at a Pizza Hut and there was a magician moving through the restaurant performing for the tables. In an instant all of Blake’s love for puzzles, performance, and problem solving crystallized into a single profession and he knew he’d never escape the magic world. Blake shares with Jonah his incredible personal journey that started with him walking out on class and ending up working for David Copperfield as one of his “Tinker Boys” behind the scenes. From there he’s moved around the country to consult with some of the biggest names in show business. Embracing Bad Ideas From working with David Copperfield and David Blane to big name acts like Kanye and Pharell and even landing on the set of Ant Man, Blake has never promised anyone a good idea. But he has promised that they would get every single one of his bad ideas. It’s his embrace of the bad idea, and never shutting up, that he’s convinced has led to some of his greatest accomplishments and breakthroughs in magic consulting. While talking with Jonah, Blake will share with you his advice for how to break into the world of magic consulting, how to prepare to perform magic on TV, and how to be your best creative self. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Mark Kalin. “He is one of the most interesting human beings alive. If you talk to him for one hour, so much crazy will come out of his mouth that I am excited to listen to that episode”! What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? “I like how much stuff is available. Every week there is a new youtube video of a magician on tv… and I love being able to watch all that.” “But that is also what I don’t like, because now that there is so much stuff out it becomes very hard to sift through it all.” Take home point “Bad Ideas. Just the value of them and learning to not be afraid of them… almost any good idea I’ve ever heard, came from them”. Plugs You can follow Blake on instagram at @blakevogt You can check out what Blake has on sale by visiting blakevogt.com

This week Jonah connects with Kevin Li. Kevin is a two-time contestant on Fool Us, and a prolific social media magician who expanded his business into virtual performances. Throughout this conversation he offers up tips on how to build your brand, your identity, and your magic from influences outside of the magical realm. A Walking Marketer Kevin Li was lucky enough to get his start learning about magic from the Magic Castle itself but it wasn’t until College that he started to see magic as the legitimate and viable path for a career that it was. His parents took some convincing, of course, but there was no doubt in his mind that performing magic was the way forward for him. Because of that Kevin has learned early on that he needed to be a walking marketer. When you’re performing there’s never a guarantee of the next gig or the next contract so you’re always having to put yourself out there and telling everyone what you do because you never know when that next show is going to be. Being Original Among Trends Kevin is a prolific social media magician with a successful following on both TikTok and Instagram. But that didn’t happen because he followed the trends and in his conversation with Jonah he emphasizes how important it was to be original and not to copy the other trends happening on social media, especially in the realm of magic. In order to be the original performer he wanted to be, Kevin spends a lot of time consuming lots of non-magic media. He’s convinced that if you’re going to set out to produce a lot of content you need to be able to consume a lot of content and he offers tips and suggestions on how you can reach out and find your inspiration from other mediums and genres as well as advice on how to make trending videos of your own. Wrap-Up Endless Chain I’m gonna recommend my good friend and consultant Micky Wong. Micky is an incredible magician based in Hong Kong and he’s done a lot of consulting work, tv work, and he’s helped me with both my magic and script writing. He’s just well rounded in everything magic wise. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? One thing I do like about modern magic is you’re able to experiment more. It’s not going to be too daunting to try out new things. I feel like the creativity there, people are more accepting of all kinds of ideas. Like, people are actually looking for new ideas all the time. They don’t wanna see the same stuff over and over again. That should make you more confident about trying new things. One thing I don’t like is carbon copies of social media magicians. It’s not just a TikTok trend that everyone gets to copy. In magic it’s not the same, don’t be a carbon copy of one another. Please be original. Take home point Be original but don’t forget to have fun. Sometimes when you’re so hooked on a specific idea or method and you visit it too long you can start hating it. Plugs Instagram – @KevinLiMagic YouTube – Kevin Li Magic TikTok – @magickevinli And for all things Supper Club visit the Rosalynn Magic Club

This week Jonah connects with Mark Desouza. Mark might be one of the most well connected magicians around with a deep curiosity of the art of magic and an even deeper collection of magic props. Magic Communities Mark Desouza has a reputation for knowing everyone and having a foot in both classic and modern worlds of magic. He opens up with Jonah about how he first connected with the community at his magic shop and shares his recollections on how he made his first contacts and found himself invited into the inner circles of top underground magicians. The real secret he believes is that he had desire, not just curiosity. He didn’t just show up and ask these experts to show him a trick. He did the research, and worked on his craft, and by the time he approached a magician for the first time he already had informed questions to ask them. And everytime he’s asked people in that way, they’ve always responded positively. Magic Collections Mark never considered himself a collector, yet if you ask around his collection is spoken about for miles. Mark never bought things just for the collection but found himself buying things that truly interested him. That might be why he owns 50 sets of chinese sticks. Mark shares with Jonah some of his favorite items in his collection, his reasons for buying new props, and which items from his collection he uses in his acts. Magic Competitions If you have any questions about magic competitions you should make sure you stick around to the later half of Mark’s chat with Jonah as he opens up to the realities of modern magic competitions. The competition has never been more fierce but the rewards aren’t as high as they used to be. Even winning the FISM Grand Prix doesn’t guarantee you’ll have work. There just simply aren’t enough venues that will book an act like that. So why compete? Mark proposes that there are some very good reasons to compete and the best reason is for the critique you’ll receive from the judges. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Eric DeCamps and Will Fern What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? Likes magicians doing long form. There are magicians doing one-man shows in a whole lot of different venues now. Does not like the internet not properly respecting magic and its creators. One of the biggest problems is you’re going to get creators not willing to share because they’re just going to get ripped off. Take home point Research & diligence. You need to begin to research your material. Where did it come from? Who has done it before? And what will make it good for you? If you start on something, carry through with it. Don’t get sidetracked. Plugs You can still find some of Mark’s videos from the early 80’s for sale on Meir Yedid’s mymagic.com. Mark also has a four hour lecture on stand-up magic available at Penguin Magic. And while Mark’s books are out of print they will soon be made available as e-books and if you’d like to receive a special deal from Mark then you should e-mail him at [email protected].

This week Jonah breaks down the three biggest mistakes that magicians make when they’re testing our new material for their shows. If you’re trying to get a new trick better, if you’re performing on open mic nights or putting it in your show, or trying to test material in your stage show, how do you make it better? How do you make it work? And more importantly, how do you make it so that you try a trick out and over time it gets better and better and makes its way into your act instead of you losing confidence in it. Here are the three biggest mistakes that magicians are making in trying out new material. Mistake #1: Not Memorizing A Script There are many ways that you can write a script but really what you need to do at the end of the day is, if you want your trick to get better, you need to have some things memorized. There is a certain type of magic that happens not when you write a script but when you’ve memorized a script and you’re out on stage. There’s a different level of confidence and rhythm to what you do because you are figuring out the pacing and the timing of what you’re saying. Many people sit and write a script but they don’t memorize it, and you need to know your script backwards and forwards. That is what’s going to give you confidence on stage and that is what is going to give you something to edit when things are not working the way you want it to. Mistake #2: Not Padding Your Tricks You need to do something on that stage to build rapport with the audience, and more importantly, build your rhythm with the audience. Don’t just go there and then try something brand new for the very first time. It’s going to feel strange. So if you can, if you have jokes or tricks or lines or sentences, or things that you say that you’ve said before, that you are confident in, then try to put a little bit of that into the new trick. Before you do this new trick, it makes a huge difference not to just run on stage and try something that you’ve never tried before. The rhythm is going to be very weird. You want to learn what the rhythm is with you talking back and forth with the audience. And the first time that you write a script, the first time you memorize it, you’re not going to know that rhythm. So put something earlier in the tricks that you can establish a little bit of your rhythm and build a little bit of that momentum with the new Trek and it’s going to help it be a lot smoother in your act. It’s going to make it feel a lot less new when you’re performing it for an audience, because you will have already built some rhythm with them. If you have a trick or a joke or some lines or a sentence that you are used to saying then start with that when you step out on the stage. Mistake #3: Not Recording Your Sets If you’re trying to get better than you need to be able to watch your magic critically. And it has never been easier to just pop your phone on a $9 tripod and record the set. When you see standup comedians out at open mic shows, they are recording their sets. They want to watch it back. They want to get the rhythm and the timing right. You should be doing exactly the same. You need to be recording your sets and recording your performances. There’s nothing else to say about that. And then you have to watch them. You will be baffled by how much better you will get iIf you just commit to recording your sets and watching it afterwards. You’ll make just minor changes and by the time you’ve done it a half dozen times maybe you’ll be making minor changes at that point. Filming the set is the only way to get better. We think that we remember how everything went, but when we’re on stage our adrenaline is pumping and we don’t really accurately remember the situation the way we think we do. But the camera never lies. So record your sets. That is the way to get better at your material and hopefully get a new trick that you’re trying into your set and into your repertoire. Come See Jonah Live If you’re anywhere near Toronto, come see The Newest Trick In The Book. It’s free and there are eight magicians on the line up. It’s going to be epic and you should be there.

This week Jonah connects with movie writer & director Kate Tsang to talk about her latest movie, Marvelous and the Black Hole. Marvelous and the Black Hole features stars such as Rhea Pearlman and is a story about a teenager who teams up with a magician and navigates her inner demons and her dysfunctional family by learning about sleight of hand magic. The Magic of Stories Kate Tsang doesn’t have a background in magic, for her the magic in her life was the stories told to her while growing up. What she wanted to do was take the experience she had with the wonder of storytelling and use sleight of hand magic to tell that story. To do that she signed up for lessons at the Magic Castle and what started as a research project soon expanded as she found mentors and friends within the magic community. Authentic Movie Magic Knowing she wanted to do magic right on the camera for the movie watching audience, Kate reached out to her newfound magic community and brought Kayla Drescher on board as the film’s magic consultant. Kayla taught the cast what they needed to do and remained on set behind the camera to make sure everything was performed as it should. The result is a marvelous movie that doesn’t just use magic to tell its story but also presents magic in an authentic way. Watch Online Marvelous and the Black Hole will be available for On Demand & Digital starting Friday April 29th and you can pre-order your copy today on AppleTV by visiting apple.co/3OKNkKT  

This week Jonah speaks with Benjamin Barnes about the unique Chicago magic scene and what to look for when you want to build your own magic community. Benjamin Barnes is a staple of the Chicago magic community, with direct ties to Eugene Burger, a huge hand in the recurring show Chicago Magic, and now the Entertainment Director of the Chicago Magic Lounge. Ben Barnes not only exemplifies Chicago magic but has also seen it all. More Than One Kind of Magic Benjamin might not have understood what was happening when he first saw magic performed in front of him while he was in pre-school but even then he knew that magic was for him. Later, as he grew up and developed his interest into magic he’d even eventually learn that there were a lot more ways to work in magic than just being a famous David Copperfield style of magician. For a long time he couldn’t imagine all the various ways one can work in magic, from corporate gigs, to performing in lounges, camps, schools, and on the street. So, thinking that the only kind of viable magic direction was through the big name stars, he looked up Jeff McBride’s private number in the Yellow Pages and called him at his home. He wasn’t home but Jeff’s wife gave him the phone number for the venue he was performing at, and amazingly he did get in touch with Jeff McBride who told him that if he lived in Chicago he should be getting lessons from Eugene Burger. Another set of phone numbers was shared and soon enough Benjamin was learning from Eugene and never looking back. Chicago Style Benjamin started in Chicago and his entire magic career has revolved around the chicago community. He shares with Jonah how that magic scene has evolved over the years, from small, funny, closeup magic tricks, to bigger theatrical performances, and how folks like Eugene Burger pushed the needle to change how magic was perceived and conceived in the windy city. These days magic in Chicago is much more scripted and practical. Most importantly the community has zero competition and prides itself on how cooperative, collaborative, and welcoming it is. Learning What The Audience Wants Running the Magic Lounge in Chicago has given Benjamin and unique insight into what lay people audiences are looking for in magic shows. And every magician should hear what Benjamin has to share with Jonah because the reality might shock them. Audiences don’t care about the method, or how big of a name you are in the magic community. They don’t go to shows to see stars or flashy unique overly complicated tricks. They’re expectations are much more simple than that, and it can be very easy to over complicate that relationship or think that you’re a much bigger deal than you really are. People come to a magic show because there is magic. Most people rarely see live magic so many of them don’t even really know what magic means. They might have an impression, or seen a performance on tv on a show like America’s Got Talent, but they don’t really know what they’re in for when they go to a magic show. The magician’s job is not just to entertain the audience but also provide an experience that they will want to come back to. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Rachel Wax What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? Benjamin likes that magic is becoming more and more democratic and more diverse. Benjamin does not like seeing attention for the sake of attention. He sees a lot of people asking what they can get from magic and not asking about what they can give to magic. Take home point Look for ways to express who you are through your magic. If you do that you will stand out. Plugs You can follow Benjamin on Instagram @barnesmagic and check out barnesmagic.com to learn more about his upcoming performances.

This week Jonah offers up three tips to consider when making your promo video. Your promo video is the most valuable asset that you have to get yourself booked as a magician. The biggest difference in your magic business as to whether or not people choose to book you or not. If you have been trying to book yourself out as a magician for any amount of time, you’ll realize that very soon, you need proof that you can do what you say you can do. And the form of proof that you possibly could have would be a promo video, a video demo of what you do with audiences, people, reacting, clips, and different things like that. The Wrong Promo What happens if you get this wrong? Well, the first thing that happens if you get this wrong is you don’t have a promo video and you have to dodge that question when it comes up. If you don’t have a promo video it’s very difficult to convince new potential clients that you’re going to be perfect. The second thing that happens if you get this wrong is maybe you do have a video, but it is a video of you performing for the wrong audience. So maybe it’s you performing for kids when you’re trying to get corporate gigs. Maybe it’s you performing outdoor street magic when really you’re trying to do private events and you’re trying to do events for companies. There’s lots of different ways that you can have the wrong footage. Your video could convince people that you are great but not the right person for the job. The third thing that happens if you get this wrong is you could have an amateur looking video, a video that basically convinces them that you are not good enough for the part. So we want to make sure that we do not do any of those things. The Right Promo Here’s what starts to happen if you get a great promo video, if you have one that really works for you. The first thing that happens is you’re going to start booking bookings right away. People are going to call you and say you’re perfect for the job. You don’t have any convincing to do, you don’t fight on price because they see proof that you can actually do this. The second thing that happens if you get this right is your conversion rate goes up. Let’s say before one in every three people who inquired with you actually ended up booking you. Now it may end up being something like 50% or 60% of people, maybe even more because you have the one thing they’re looking for, which is they want proof that this is actually going to be good. And thing number three that happens if you get this right is you start to get authority in your market. If you do a good enough job of showing people a promo video, with lots of people in your market in that video, then it becomes unequivocally true that you are the expert in that market because you do loads of shows for just that market. How To Get The Best Promo Now let’s talk about three things you can do to actually make your promo video better or put together a really good promo video. First, show them themselves. There’s a lot of different things we can put in promo videos. We can put closeups of us doing card tricks. We can do footage of us on stage. We can do footage of lots of different things. The real thing that we want is we want promo footage of us performing an event. When the viewer looks at that, they realize that this is my people. This is my venue. So if you perform at comedy clubs then your promo video should have lots of comedy clubs. If you perform at summer camps, it should have summer camps. If you perform at corporate events, it should have corporate events. Or at the very least it should look like people are at corporate events. Too many magicians who get their promo video spend thousands of dollars on getting somebody to go into a studio with them and take fancy videos that nobody really needs. It’s not the video in the studio that’s helpful. It’s the video footage that comes from the actual events of other clients just like them. Second, the next time you have a booking, for a market that you do lots of shows for, bring a videographer to it. Paid for quality. There’s a few things in our business that we can do. You can print business cards on your own. One that Jonah doesn’t recommend that you do on your own is making a promo video. This is the number one deciding factor on the planet that’s going to help convince people that you are the right person for the job. Jonah recommends that you hire somebody to make the video. It is obvious when a video has been edited or put together by a pro versus an amateur. Getting Promo Video Help If you need help putting together a promo video and marketing your services, please send Jonah an email to [email protected]. You can chat about potentially working together and see if he can help. Jonah has a new gigs program starting next month, and that might be for you. So please send

This week Jonah is joined by Jonathan Bayme, CEO of theory11, to talk about his work applying magic minded thinking to his business and the products he creates. Jonathan was five years old when he watched a performance of David Copperfield, and by thirteen he was headlining events to sold out audiences. Soon he’d finish highschool early to begin producing and consulting for some of the biggest names in magic and in 2007 he founded theory11 and has taken his keen ability for magic minded thinking into other businesses and environments beyond the performance stage. Learning To Perform, Not Just Present Jonathan shares with Jonah the story of his early years. From knowing at a very young age that he would be spending his life performing as or working with magicians. He learned the difference between performing magic and presenting magic and shares stories of the lessons he learned and people he met, and tried to meet, that directed the course of his early magic career. Going With The Wind Jonathan is quick to remind you that he has never gone in with a long master plan and is always open to change. It’s that flexibility that allowed him to put himself into moments of opportunity that put him in the same room as JJ Abram, pitching a plan to sell a mystery box with his name on it, or working with other high profile clients creating playing cards for their brands. From founding theory11, to producing The Magician at New York’s NoMad with Dan White, to having to pivot that show into the virtual performance of The Magician Online, Jonathan has been moving the wind and accepted the changes to his trajectory all along. Is this where he thought he’d end up? No. Would he rather be anywhere else? Not a chance. Sending The Second Email Jonathan also offers up a lot of advice for budding magicians who want to make this artform their career. He shares with Jonah his background on working with The Illusionists, to founding his company, and how he pitched the idea of a one player game to Target and how Neil Patrick Harris ended up attached to the project. Ultimately, many times, it has come down to knowing the value of your product and returning time after time even after you get rejected. Sending the second e-mail. Or the third. Or the tenth. Never giving up until your vision is realized. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Blake Voght What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? One thing I love going on in magic right now is how much the internet has become even more of a vehicle for magicians connecting than it ever has been.Whether that’s YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, message boards, anything… you have the ability to connect with other musicians in 15 different forms. There’s a very specific genre of magic that I like. I like pushing magic being seen as a sophisticated upscale intellectual art form. I like elevating the art form. So the things that I liked the most, or the magicians that do that. Anything that’s the opposite of that is probably what I liked the least. Take home point Being very willing to go where your passion leads you and you don’t have to have a goal. People ask, “what’s your five-year plan”? Like, I don’t have a five day plan let alone a five-year plan. If you don’t have a plan it means that you’re going a little bit more with the wind. It means potentially more insecurity. And your career path, not knowing exactly what you’re doing. You have to be totally set on what you’re doing at the moment, but I’m just saying, be willing to deviate from your original plan. You can change your story and you can become something completely different or you could not be a professional magician and you could go work at something else and magic is your hobby and that’s totally fine. It doesn’t make you less of a magician because you don’t perform. I just want to open people’s eyes to how many options and opportunities there are in magic and ways that you can have a life in magic that don’t necessarily have to involve becoming a famous magician. Plugs Theory11’s website is theory11.com. If you haven’t seen the Magician Online, you can go do themagicianonline.com. Box One is the game that we made with Neil Patrick Harris, go to boxonegame.com

Jonah returns with all new interviews and discussions coming your way. Looking Back It’s been almost two years since the pandemic and what a journey it’s been. And we remember that in March or April of 2020 saying that when this whole pandemic thing wraps up, when it ends, when you go back to normal, you’re going to miss the time that you had. And you’re going to wish that you would have spent a couple more hours or days working on this, or a couple more hours or days working on that. And Jonah is here to tell you that he’s wishing that he had more time and that he did more and that he took more advantage of the downtime in the world and downtime in the business because things are getting back to normal. In-Person Magic Is Back Jonah is back and also in-person magic is back. All of the magic venues are sort of back putting on shows. All your favorite magicians are touring around and performing and you get to see them live. And, as well, gigs are back to in-person gigs. A lot of us were doing exclusively virtual and some people still are doing exclusively virtual while some people are doing both, but in-person gigs are back and they are happening. It’s time to take all of those ideas that have been bouncing around in your head for the last two years and put them into the world. If you have nerves about returning to the stage and returning to performing then Jonah’s advice is to just pick the trick that you’re going to do in advance. One that you know and that you know you are going to do that way. That way you don’t have to worry about it in the moment. You know exactly what trick to show them. And you can even pick the trick based on the environment that you’re going to be in. It gives you a lot of advantage because you know exactly what you’re going to be doing. You can rehearse it and you can picture it in your mind. Instead of you practicing every trick, you’re just practicing one trick. Don’t go out there and wing it. The more prepared you are the better and just know exactly what you’re going to do. Don’t stress yourself out about trying to do a million different things. Decide what trick is going to go with what format and make it happen. Gigging Is Back And while in person magic is back, so is gigging. It’s happening slowly because we’re not in a corporate season right now but in camps, schools, resorts, fairs, festivals, company events, and restaurants… all of these places are getting ready to launch or relaunch or get things back to normal. And now is your chance to go and get a spot, a residency, something! Go reach out to some of these places. This is a really wonderful time. When the pandemic started, it was a really good time to put on a company’s first virtual event and do something for them virtually to help them better understand the medium. And now a lot of companies are struggling to figure out how to make their event more fun. And you may have the answers to that. So send emails to every place that you know that is reopening because they’re transitioning back to in-person. Those are great places to be reaching out to about your services. And a lot of the magicians that used to do this probably retired over the course of the pandemic so maybe there’s some room for you! Jonah Has Your Back If you need help getting bookings and getting gigs then send Jonah an email. The email address is [email protected]. And he has another group starting in a couple of weeks to help magicians grow their business and book some gigs.So if you need some help with that, then send Jonah an email. Welcome Back Finally, if you live anywhere near Toronto, Jonah and Ben are back putting on live shows. They have a live show happening at Yuk Yuk’s this coming week called Hocus Jokus! It’s a comedy magic show and it is a ton of fun. So if you want to see a Jonah performance, and you live anywhere near Toronto, this is a wonderful chance and he would love to see you there.

This week Jonah is joined by prolific magician and prop maker, Bizzaro. Bizzaro has been a staple in the magic world, both as a performer and as a prop maker. In this episode he and Jonah discuss building a workshop, creativity, and problem solving. Build It Yourself Bizzaro has always been best when left alone to his own devices, from a kid who would always check out the same books every week from the library to the adult who makes his visions come to life by making it himself. Bizzaro opens up about his early days making props for friends in the magic club and discovering early on that he had a zeal for performing and just heading out and doing it. Each Trick Has A Story From a glue bottle that you can drink from to a refilling oreo cookie, Bizzaro’s inventions are wonderfully weird and unique. So how does he come up with them? According to Bizzaro they all come from different places and every trick has a story. Most of the time the inception of the idea comes from the question, “wouldn’t it be fun if”? He shares with Jonah stories about the creations of some of his most popular tricks and offers advice on how to find that creative inspiration in your own surroundings. Propping Up Magicians Along with creating escape rooms, Bizzaro is also a prolific prop maker. He offers up advice on building your own workshop and what software he’s found most useful to help design his creations. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Rudy Coby & The Shocker What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? Both likes and dislikes social media magic. On one hand it’s sometimes unimaginative, too short, and not very well presented. On the other hand, it means that when the public actually gets out to see a real live magic show they are blown away because social media magic has lowered their expectations! Take home point When you have an idea just make it, don’t be lazy just do it. Plugs Bizzaro’s main website is bizzaro.ninja His prop making site is bizzarobydesign.com And if you need some escape room work done you can visit Test Subjects at testsubjects.com And if you want more tips on creativity, you can email Bizzaro, or find him on social media. Let him know you heard him on this podcast and he’ll send you a link to his creativity notes.

This with Jonah connects with Bao Hoang to discuss how he’s grown as an online magician and his success in creating and selling unique collectible card sets. For a long time Bao still performed for corporate gigs and kids shows but ever since the pandemic he’s realized that the way he shares his magic is a lot more scalable as an online video, capable of reaching magnitudes more people than any live show would be able to do. Creating The Content He Wish He’d Had Bao learned magic through online sources, and while he also has had wonderful connections made through local clubs in Montreal, he wanted to find a way to give back and create the kind of content he wished he had had when he was starting out. Even though he’s teaching basic entry level things, it was important to him that he was creating very high quality content and teaching it properly. Bao breaks down with Jonah how he picks what he teaches, and his thoughts on teaching magic in a public forum like TikTok or YouTube. He also offers up some of his own advice for people getting started both as a magician and as an online content creator. And he shares the differences he’s found between creating content for YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok and how he’s learned to utilize each of those platforms strengths. Pick A Card Along with his online content, Bao is also responsible for the hugely successful Instant Noodle and Boba collectable playing cards. Bao shares with Jonah how these playing cards came to be and what it’s been like to market and develop these cards as well as discover which audiences he’s actually making them for. Giving Value No matter if you are making content for YouTube or kickstarting a new project you have to always be thinking about your audience and what they want, because that’s the reason you’re doing content. You still want to enjoy what you’re creating but you have always have your audience in mind if you want to see your content grow. If you give value to people they’ll reciprocate that in the future. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Jason Mayer, Street Magician Dude. He’s been grinding since the beginning and has massive followings on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? Loves how it’s getting more attention in the mainstream media. It’s not as tacky and contributing to a modern image of real magicians. What does Bao not like? While he has comments about Facebook magic, at the same time, he understands the grind. So while he’s not a big fan he totally understands the work that’s being put in. Take home point Give value to people. Plugs You can find Bao on every major social media platform by searching up the name Bao Magic. And if you’d like to look up his playing cards you should search for BaoBao Restaurant Playing Cards and you’ll find lots of retailers who still have cards in stock.

This week Jonah offers up his suggestions for the best software you can use to maximize your team’s potential. If you have a growing magic business then you probably have an expanding team. And with that, you have to manage all of the documents and data and opinions and files and feelings of your team members. And to be able to communicate with your team is not an easy task. And certainly it’s not a task that you can just do over email. In this episode Jonah is going to walk you through five pieces of software that are going to make a huge difference. #1: Slack You might be asking yourself, aren’t there enough ways to message people? But what slack allows is for multiple people on your team who have to communicate with each other but when you don’t need to be the middleman as well. Email is so old and ancient, you send a bulleted list of five topics and then they reply with a bulleted list of five topics. In slack, you can send different ideas, you can go back and forth, and it’s really, really great for conversations. So if you’ve got more than one team member or want to manage your conversations in a better place than your email inbox, Slack is a great first place to start. #2: Zoom At this point in time, you already have Zoom and many of you are paying for Zoom. But here’s the twist. Here’s the thing you should do on zoom. It’s going to cost a little bit more money, but make a huge difference. And that is Cloud Recording. Every time you get on a zoom call, you have the opportunity to set it to record. Why is that helpful? Well, it’s already going to record all of your shows, which is amazing, but the other reason why it’s helpful is if you meet with your team and you share with them advice and details, all of that is recorded and documented so that you and them can visit it and revisit it later. You’ve got to be very meticulous about each phase of the project and not just write down what you remember or anything like that. So tool number two is not only Zoom, but Zoom Cloud Recording. So you can document the actual training and education and working with your team and have it with you. That begs an immediate question, which is, does that mean that after every recording I have to go to zoom and download the recording and send it off? And the answer is no. You want people on your team to be able to have access to that recording. How do they have access? Do you give them a password? Well, you could, but there’s an incredible third piece of software that Jonah wants to recommend #3: Lastpass What LastPass is great for is you can add multiple people and add folders, which means you have a folder with a bunch of different passwords that you can share with other people on your team. And the way it works is they cannot see the password, but they can just use it. So that means other people on your team can use your Zoom password to login and download the recordings of the videos. You do not have to go into it for them and send it to them and slow down the back and forth. Instead they have access to your Zoom account and access to plenty of other things that they need access to. #4: Loom There’s a bunch of different other options other than Loom, but this one is the most popular. What loom is, is a very, very quick and speedy way to either record a video of your face or record a screen recording of your screen. Why is that important? Well, this is hands down the easiest way to communicate with your team, the way that you’re feeling and thinking your wants and your needs. When having a meeting, maybe you’ve got staff in different places around the world, and you may not be able to meet at the same time, but exchanging a video where you’re able to share your screen, talk freely, talk about how you feel and they’re able to watch through it, having that kind of ability to send a video and not have to write out every last detail of how you’re feeling, but instead send a video either of your screen or of yourself describing your opinion makes a huge, huge impact in your ability to communicate with your team. And that’s what all this stuff is about. It’s about streamlining communication, about making your community as easy and as smooth as possible. Loom is kind of your meeting replacement. You don’t have to have a meeting. If you can send a little recording with your notes or ideas or feedback or whatever the case may be. #5 Asana Asana is a task managing software. You can use it for a ton of things like setting deadlines or making projects, but the way that Jonah uses it is making projects with. You have tasks and using Loom you’re able to assign tasks to people, able to set due dates, give descriptions, and if you want to go back and see your projects in the past, you don’t have to scroll through hundreds of emails and back and forth. It’s all in one place, exactly where it should be. If you bu

Ben Train pops in to offer some important tips to help you overcome any fear you may have surrounding performing the magic tricks that you’ve been practicing on. For those of you who don’t know Ben, he is Jonah’s housemate, his business partner, and the better looking half of their duo act (his words). And over the next few months, Ben is going to be doing a series of short podcasts dedicated to helping you become better and more confident performers. Ben has been doing magic for about 25 years and for the first 10 or so years of that, he loved magic, practiced magic, but refused to show people tricks. It didn’t matter who was asking, whether it was friends or family, or even complete strangers. When they asked to see a trick, Ben would freeze up, his mind would go blank and he would have to come up with an excuse for why he didn’t want to share something. If that sounds like a problem that you’re dealing with, Ben can empathize. Showing magic to people when you don’t know who you’re going to be showing it to, when you don’t know what to say, and when you don’t know if they’re going to like it, that is scary. So, Ben has some tips that’ll help you get out there, to get over that hump, and start showing magic. For the purpose of this episode we’re going to assume that you already know some tricks and you’ve practiced them so that they’re ready to be shown to people. If you’re still practicing, don’t worry, you’ve got plenty of time, but assuming you have some tricks ready to go, what do you do so that you can start showing them to people? Well, Ben thinks it starts by asking yourself three very important questions. Who do you want to perform for? Where do you want to perform? And what is it that you will be performing now? Who Do You Want To Perform For? If you’re not a professional magician, you don’t have to be ready to perform in every situation. You don’t have to be an expert at kid magic, stand up magic, stage magic, close-up magic, and adult magic. You can pick which audience you want to perform for. Obviously, performing for drunk adults is different from performing for children. So if you feel like you’re more comfortable performing for kids, that’s who you’re going to target with your performances. If you want to perform for your friends in school or buddies at work, you know who you’re planning on performing for. Where Do You Want To Perform? You don’t have to be an expert at everything. You can pick and say, “I want to do close-up magic for people when I go out for drinks”. Or you can say, “on the bus on the way to school, I want to be able to show someone a trick”. Knowing who you’re planning on performing for and where you’re planning on performing gives you the tools you need to pick the right trick to do. And this is very important. We’re not trying to figure out how to put together an entire act that we can perform all over the world. Right now, we’re just trying to work up the courage. We need to start performing for people in our lives. What Will You Perform? You don’t have to come up with an entire set list of material. You just have to pick one trick that you’re going to practice. One trick that you’re going to do for a specific audience and in a specific setting. And if you do that, suddenly you’ll notice that you have a lot more confidence because you feel more prepared. Know thy enemy, know the battlefield and you are prepared to bring the tools you need to conquer those enemies or battlefields. Think about it like a UFC fighter. A UFC fighter trained specifically for the match ahead of him, a grappler you train for differently than you’re going to train for a striker, for instance. So if you know you’re going to be doing that for a specific group, and you’re going to be doing it in a specific place, and you know the trick you’re going to do, you can prepare yourself in advance both mentally and physically to do that. Now we’re not talking about becoming an expert in performing in every situation. That comes later. Right now, you’re going to focus on one group for one type of setting and one specific trick. And once you perform that a few times for people, you will be confident because you’ll know the trick works, the audience likes it, and it works in that type of setting. And now you will have one piece that is ready to go in your repertoire and you can start working on the next one. And before you know it, you’ll be ready to rock and roll and do magic whenever you want to. Reach Out For More Help Reach out if you have more questions by sending an email to [email protected]. We’re going to be doing a series of these helpful tips. And if you want to follow more, if you want to get more tips, and if you want to be involved in some of the fun

This week Jonah shares with you a sample of his workshop where he helps magicians grow their business and double their earnings. In this episode Jonah breaks down the important details you need to focus on and explains why they’re essential to help grow and scale your magic business. This episode is just a little idea of what the complete workshop experience will be like and the kind of things that Jonah works with. The workshop itself was an hour and a half long and included questions, and drawings, and worksheets, and lots of fun. If you want help scaling your business then email [email protected] with the word “SCALE” and Jonah will send you more info about what it’s like to work together. If you want to know about other workshops that Jonah is hosting all you have to do is visit discourseinmagic.com/updates.

This week Jonah connects with David Regal to discuss writing magic for television and the innovative ways that David approaches magic. David’s trick creation is incredible. And not only is his sleight of hand amazing but so is his writing. Among his multiple writing credits, David was also the head writer for The Carbonaro Effect. Interpreting Magic As much as David loves performing he especially loves the process. In theatre and film the concept of a screenwriter is much more common but not so in the world of magic but that’s where David talks a lot about with Jonah in his work helping to write for and develop magic. David’s books, Approaching Magic and Interpreting Magic, are all about challenging the status quo in the magic world and encouraging the joy and innovation that can come when magicians embrace the interpretive nature of magic as an artform. Writing Magic For Television Among his many writing credits, David is also the head writer for The Carbonaro Effect. Starring Michael Carbonaro, the show sets up moments in the real world where the subject in the scene is unaware that magic is currently being performed around them. The titular effect is the belief that something is shattering their world view of what is possible. David opens up about what it was like writing for The Carbonaro Effect and how he had to explain to the show producers that what they were doing was not a magic show at all but was utilizing magic to create a very strange day for the “mark” on the show. Developing Judgement Judgement is a rare thing and the reason, David believes, that a lot of performers are as good as they are is because they have exceptionally good judgement as to what makes a good effect. The really good performers either have this judgement or have a group of people around them who bring that judgement to the table with them. Without good judgement you won’t have good magic. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Armando Lucero is such a strong performer and a very soulful guy. Just speak to him. And Rocco Silano is a real thinker in magic. He does a dazzling stand up act and his persona is very… debonair. He’s a very thoughtful, almost philosophical, magician. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? David love’s Penn & Teller’s [Fool Us]. Magic is held back when the audience doesn’t even understand what good magic is and making the American audience understand that this is an interpretive art will go hand in hand with more artists interpreting it. David does not like the other side of interpretation though when magicians seek out the full proof perfect effect. What screws up interpretation is there are effects that if you just do them well are great tricks but if you find the greatest tricks that work every time then you’ll end up doing the exact same tricks as the other magician who has those same tricks. Take home point “Make sure that when you’ve done all the other work… that you’re putting in an idea of your own into it. If it’s the tiniest thing, it can be a one word thing, but that’s really what it’s all about. You’ll enjoy performing much more and the audience will always sense… your connection to the material” Plugs You can follow up with David by visiting David Regal’s website at davidregal.com

Jonah welcomes you to the new year and new plans for Discourse in Magic in 2022. Whether you are using your magic to perform full-time, are just wanting to perform for friends, or get better at magic, the thing that’s in common between anybody listening to this podcast is we are trying to get better, trying to perform better, and trying to make better magic, trying to make more money, and trying to run a better business. So this year we wanted to update you on some of the projects that are coming your way. Less Interviews, More Content Jonah has interviewed a LOT of people on Discourse in Magic and only has a handful of remaining people that he really, really needs to interview. But that doesn’t mean the podcast is going anywhere just yet and we do have some important people that we’re excited to share. This means you should expect less interviews than last year, probably about two a month. But that is because we are making room for growth and there’s going to be two main focuses. Growing Your Business The first is going to be about business. As you know, Jonah runs two different coaching programs. One for people who are getting their magic businesses started by trying to get to earning $3,000 to $5,000 a month. And another one for people who are trying to explode and scale their magic business, like six figures and beyond. And over the course of the past couple years, Jonah has learned a lot and he wants you to learn a ton too. So, every month you are going to get some education that comes right from the coaching programs and the ways that Jonah is helping magicians right now to make money. And if you’re thinking that you’re not really into doing magic for the money and you just want to perform more, do more magic, and perform better then the good news is that we are so pumped to share with you that we are going to be doing that thanks to new content from Ben Train. Growing Your Magic Ben Train is going to also share with you a once a month education series for you on growing your magic performance. These clips will be coming from live training sessions that we are going to be doing, where you can ask questions and actually work on different parts of your magic. Such as getting prepared for shows, getting prepared to perform for good audiences, scripting your magic, making your magic better, working on the methods, and so on. If that sounds exciting for you, then hit updates on this very site and sign up for the newsletter, because that is where you’re going to be invited to be a part of all of this fun and will be invited to be a part of these podcast episodes that are recorded and released later. Stay Tuned For A Sample To whet your appetite for the new style of the podcast, Jonah also offers up two micro lessons in this episode to help you build on your magic business and magic performance. How do you price your shows? And what is the most important thing to focus on during your rehearsals? Make sure you listen to the end of this episode to hear Jonah’s tips for you. We are excited to have you all here, and happy 2022. And we hope you look forward to the next series of episodes this month and next which will help you with your magic business and to help you get performance ready and perform for more people more often.

This week Jonah has a very short message for you going into the final week of the holiday season. Three simple things that can’t go unsaid before the year is out. Thing 1: This Is Our 300th Episode! This is our three-hundredth episode. Many of you have been listening since the beginning of the podcast. Maybe you started listening a week ago, or a year ago, or five years ago when this started, but this is the 300th episode. And all Jonah wants to say is, “Thank you”. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for tuning in. Thanks for being a part of this journey. It’s changed. It’s been strange. Jonah used to do it with his business partner, Tyler, and together they interviewed amazing magicians. He’s interviewed other incredible magicians since and started a coaching program. You’ve listened through the launch of the Toronto Magic Company and through the transition to virtual and so much more. Thanks for being here for 300 episodes. Thing 2: What’s Coming Up in 2022 Next year, Jonah is really leaning into making some awesome content for magicians. He will have regular content to help you grow your business and regular events that you can attend to help you make your magic better. Things to help you with your effect selection, with your scripting, with your performance, with your workshopping of your tricks and making them better. We have content scheduled for the entire year that you can be a part of. This podcast is going to look a little bit different coming into 2022 with more fun things for you to be a part of. And if you know what’s good for you, sign up for the email list! That’s how you can actually be a part of these workshops and a part of these lectures and get some of the free stuff that is coming your way. Thing 3: Take A Break, You’ve Earned It This was maybe a big year for you virtually or maybe not. It may be a big year for returning to in-person and then Omicron and the holidays and 2022 and all of that coming by. So make sure to take a little break this holiday season. That might mean a couple days off or that may mean a week off to spend with your family. And from us, everybody here at Discourse in Magic and the Toronto Magic Company, we want to thank you for being a part of all of the fun, strange journeys that have been going on in 2021. We wish you a happy new year, a happy holidays, and we are excited to see you and work together on making your magic and maybe your business better in 2022.

This week Jonah connects with John Graham who has just released his new book, “Stage by Stage”, which is all about transitioning to stage magic. Jonah goes behind the scenes with John and asks him every question he has about stage magic. The Magic Shop Of Solitude John was fortunate enough to grow up in Pennsylvania where Mel’s Magic City, which is still open today, was his place of solitude. The owner had the shop almost as a hobby so John would spend many weekends there by himself learning all he could and meet anyone he could meet who wanted to talk about magic. Even as a teenager he knew he loved magic and he saw lots of people who loved magic but also had other jobs and couldn’t devote more time to developing their own magic.This seemed like a travesty to John that they would only have a few hours in the day to work with their magic. That’s when John decided to make magic his career so that he could work on magic all the time. Transitioning To The Stage John had been doing close up magic his whole life until he was 25 when he decided to do his first stage show. And it was hard. He made some disastrous routines that performed terribly. But all those trials helped him get better as he learned from them. One example he shares with Jonah is a Sands of the Desert routine. He thought he had a great idea to change up the effect where he would have more than loadable and while he was pouring water from one hand he’d be filling water up with the other… the only problem is this process took forever and the routine went on and on and on and on. John could see him losing the interest of the audience and even when the effect happens it wouldn’t matter because it took so long to get there. He learned from that experience that you have to trust your material and you have to work on it and be realistic as you’re working on it, so that when you’re doing it on stage you can trust what you know and you can trust what you’ve rehearsed and do it the way you’ve planned so you don’t doubt yourself in the moment. The Opening and The Closing John and Jonah also break down the process of finding a good opening and how to develop a memorable closing. For opening, John recommends one of his favourite effects. The Nielsen Bottle Vanish. It’s quick, it’s easy, it doesn’t require special clothing, and if you happen to arrive at your venue or event space and the set up is not as you were expecting you can still open with this effect and calm your nerves with a really effective trick that will jump you right into your show. For closings, John suggests that you say something at the beginning of your show, almost as a question. Something for the audience to ponder. Then, later, do your closing effect and the audience claps and they take their seats and when you’re thanking them you recap your show a little bit and go back to that question you asked and then reveal an answer or an opinion about it. Now that becomes your closer. So your closer is not necessarily an effect. There might be an effect but there is a closing that happens after it. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Asi Wind, even though he’s already been on the show. He’s got his new book out “Before We Begin” and always has something new to talk about. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? John loves that more things are coming out for magicians where people are giving away their actual working routines and working acts because there is still so much work to be done. There’s a lot there if you’re ready to absorb it. John does not like that there is a rush to judgement. It’s too easy to put a product down by people who have never really seen it or worked with it. Plugs John’s new book, “Stage by Stage”, is published by Vanishing Inc and is now available. John’s website is JohnMagic.com and John’s instagram is @thejohngraham

This week Jonah reveals to you what the best tool you can use to help grow your magic business. And it’s something you already own… The tool that Jonah is talking about is the video recording app on your smart phone.Videoing your performances is the best thing you can do for your magic. If you have video footage of your performance, you can edit it and clip it out. You can find great moments and make promo videos. You can share your videos with your clients and you can post them on social media. The Highlight Reel You can attract the right people to your brand by just sharing the highlights of what you do. Proof of what you do is what every single client is actually looking for to have the conviction that they need to hire you for their events. So if you’re having trouble getting clients to pay you what you want, what you deserve, or even hire you for the events that you know you’re great at, then having some incredible video footage of that event is phenomenally useful. Watch Your Footage There’s another thing you can do with your recordings and this is the thing that makes your magic better and that is watching it back. The only thing that is as good at making your magic better than performing for live audiences is watching back on footage of your performances for a live audience. The person who knows what your magic needs the most is you. The person who knows what you did wrong, what you did right, and what you need to do better, is you. A lot of the time, we avoid doing the things we need to do. Just watch the video of your performance and look at it. Sometimes it hurts, especially if you’re early in this. It hurts to watch the performance, especially if it doesn’t go the way that you want it to, but watch it, take notes, and be your own director. Even if you’re entertaining at the highest level, if you are hiring coaches and magic consultants to help make your magic better, the last thing that you want is to show them a video of your performance and have them tell you what you already know but you did not implement because you didn’t watch back the footage and see. So across the board, whether for your business growth or for your actual entertainment, the number one tool that you should be using all the time is the video recording app on your phone. We hope you learned something from this episode. And if you’re busy this December, we hope this was a little tiny reminder for you to record some of your performances, especially if you don’t have a great promo video.

This week Jonah shares with you his top three picks for magic theory books that will make the biggest impact on your magic. The reason why this podcast even exists in the first place is because of magic theory books. This podcast is Jonah’s fight against the world of magic to help there be more resources about theory, about opinions, about ideas, and the way that things should and could be performed. Most importantly there are thoughts about how to structure a show, how to perform, how to say things, how to practice saying things, how to get a script from your idea to the paper and to the actual real world. There’s not that many resources to help us with all of those things. So these are Jonah’s top three favorite magic books about theory. The ones that he thinks would help make the biggest changes to your performance. Magic theory is all about figuring out how to perform and how to perform well. So in this episode, Jonah talks about his three top recommendations for magic theory books that are going to change the game for you and your magic Book One: Magic in Mind This first book is the broadest resource with the most options, the most authors, the most ideas, and it’s all free. This is the best resource on the planet. It is an e-book by Vanishing Ink called Magic in Mind. The author, Joshua Jay, has gathered and got permission from the most incredible magicians to take their top essays and their top ideas from their world famous books about magic theory and put it all together in one free e-book. Magic in Mind is an absolute buffet of magic theory. When you read it, it’s going to shake up what you think, because these are the most impactful essays. Don’t read the whole book like it’s a novel, read one essay at a time and try to internalize how a paragraph or how a chapter or how an essay really applies to your magic. If you start here and you don’t listen to anything else on the podcast, then this will be the beginning of an incredible magic theory rabbit hole that you’re going to love. Book Two: Designing Miracles This book is Jonah’s absolute favorite. When new magicians start learning magic, they want to start creating magic. And if you’ve ever seen somebody show you a trick, sometimes that trick doesn’t make any sense. There are rules to the world of magic and if you make something vanish and appear, when do you have to show it? And when should you not show it? If something is disappearing from one place and appearing to another, can those objects go close together or not? And Jonah can tell if a new mind to magic isn’t following these rules and it’s obvious that they haven’t read Designing Miracles yet. Designing Miracles by Darwin Ortiz is an absolutely incredible book and completely opposite to Magic in Mind. This is not a buffet. It’s almost a textbook about a very specific subject. This is the only magic theory book that is fully about structure. This is a book that is about the different rules of magic. If you like creating, making things, making tricks, or bringing ideas into the real world then this is a must read. Book Three: The Magic Rainbow This may be the biggest magic theory book ever. And that is a Testament to how much brilliance is packed in it. This is Jonah’s favorite magic theory book of all time. The Magic Rainbow is an incredible book. It is well-researched and is filled with lessons about every style of magic and every situation. It’s about arranging routines, putting them in the right order in your show. It’s about performing, practicing, and scripting. It is about the pure love of the art of magic and the pure love of theory. Every question that comes to mind, it feels like the answer is in that book and it is huge because it’s packed full of brilliant knowledge. Get In Touch If you go and check out one of these books and if one of these is new to you and you had never heard of them, send Jonah a message. He would love to know if you liked them and if you learned something. What would you recommend to him? Maybe there’s a favourite book that he’s never heard of that he should check out, he would love to know. You can e-mail Jonah at [email protected] Links Magic in Mind – Joshua Jay https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/ebooks/magic-in-mind/ Designing Miracles – Darwin Ortiz https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-theory/designing-miracles/ The Magic Rainbow – Stephen Minch and Juan Tamariz https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-theory/tamariz-magic-rainbow/

This week Jonah shares with you three tips on how to transform your five figure magic hustle into a six figure magic career. Twelve months ago, Jonah launched the Discourse in Magic six figure mastermind. Jonah launched the mastermind to help people grow their magic business from five to six figures. Now, he’s watching student after student hit the six figure mark. So in this short episode, he’s going to share with you the three biggest keys, the three biggest ideas and shifts of mindset that go from being a five figure magician to a six-figure magician Tip 1: Generate Leads When you are starting to perform, the idea is, “where can I get a gig”? But once you get a handful of gigs, you start to realize that looking for gigs is only so good. What you really want to do is you want to look for leads. You want to look for where people might be inquiring with you. How do you do that? Well, instead of focusing on short term things like, messaging people or calling a friend, you start focusing on long-term things like SEO, referrals, running ads, email outreach, and hiring people to go and find leads for you. It’s a shift of mindset from saying, where do I find a gig to saying, how do I ensure that there are leads constantly going into my system. A shift from gig flow to lead flow. Tip 2: Focus Your Sales When you’re getting into magic, you don’t want to say a price that’s so high that somebody says no. As a matter of fact, you want your price to be just low enough that they absolutely say yes. You want to perform? You need the photos, you need the testimonials, you need the videos, but to get from five figures to six figures, you can’t just charge the least amount you possibly can. You actually have to do the math and figure out how much you need to charge to actually make things work. You go from auditioning for your clients to them auditioning for you. You are the prize and they are hoping to get it. Tip 3: Systemization All this stuff feels like it takes 30 full-time jobs, but it doesn’t, it takes organization. It takes systematization. And it takes hiring talented people. A five figure magician can do every last bit of this alone. They can answer every email, send every inquiry, make all the graphics, make every video. You can do it alone, but a six-figure magician realizes that you don’t need to do every single last bit. You can hire people that are good at things and you can get software that makes things really easy for you. Now you can focus on what’s most important to you, performing. You can go from scrambling to manage absolutely everything yourself to learning things like automation, systematization, and of course hiring and having a team of people so that you can rely on. This will help you take time off and focus on the things that you’re awesome at, which is performing magic. Reach Out For More Help If you want a little bit more help going from five to six figures in your magic business in 2022, then send Jonah an e-mail with the word “Scale” to [email protected] and Jonah will send you all the info about working together in 2022. If you’re already doing five figures and you want to be doing six, send Jonah a message with the word “Scale”.

This week Ben Train fills in for Jonah and offers up some tips on what he is doing to overcome his fear of returning to the stage after so much time away. Exciting, Scary, Times These are exciting times. After a year and a half of being able to do nothing but virtual shows, the public spaces around us are opening up. With theatres reopening, Ben is about to return the stage, along with Jonah and friends, who are doing the show for 150 people. For the past year and a half, he’s been in his house, working on ideas and playing with tricks that he wanted to eventually do. And now he gets to do them! But he’s also scared. It’s scary to do new material, it’s scary to hop up on stage because anything can happen, including tricks going wrong or worse. Or worse, the trick goes right but nobody gives a shit. If you have been working on new material and you’re both excited to share it, but you’re also kind of nervous, Ben thought he would share some tips on what he did to work on the material that he is excited and scared to do. Step One: Pick One Trick The first step is pick some material you want to work on. We have almost unlimited access to material now with downloads and streaming and books and DVDs and everything. Find a book or a video or whatever source you want and narrow it down to three tricks and then pick one trick to focus on. If you really want to, you can do all three, but pick one trick to focus on and start by focusing on just the mechanical steps. Step Two: Focus On The Mechanical Don’t worry about the scripting, don’t worry about adding additional props or audience engagement, or what kickers you can put into it first, just get the minimal viable product, just the working mechanics of it, so you can start doing it without. If you rush ahead and start thinking about the presentation and you’re still awkward, you’re going to make the trick look no good. Spend some time working on the mechanics, getting a feel for the routine. Once you have the mechanics down, then you get to get to play with the scripts and the other stuff. Step Three: Rehearsal Rehearsal is different than practice because now you’re not focusing on the little details like stopping and going to analyze where your fingers are going. Now you’re going from start to finish using the script, going through the routine. If you can do that and feel comfortable and start to engage with the imaginary audience while you’re rehearsing, it will be a lot easier to go up on stage and do these because you’ve thought about how you’re going to talk to the audience and how you’re getting in and out of the routine. Step Four: Perform Once you’ve gone through all that, you’ve picked the material, you’ve gotten the mechanics down, then you’ve rehearsed the tricks, you’ll feel confident. And once you have that confidence, it’s a lot easier to go up on stage and do things. So go out there and perform the magic. One last thought from Ben, and it’s something he heard in a talk a few years ago from a designer of one of his favorite games, Magic: The Gathering. He said, “Stop worrying about evoking a negative reaction and focus on evoking a strong reaction.“

Jonah and Ben are back for one more time to talk about the fifth, and final, UnCoventional.fun virtual 8-bit magic convention. They’ve been to a hotel lobby, to the Magic Land amusement park, and even to space. Now they’re taking the final Unconventional.fun event to the prehistoric past. Thanks right, DINOSAURS. The next, and final, Unconventional.fun takes place on November 27th and 28th. What To Expect This UnConventional.fun has been reorganized by Ben to put jamming front and centre with more spaces set aside for attendees to jam with other attendees and for headliner guests to jam as well. With another roster of amazing guests, this is going to be a must attend event to wrap up this series of virtual conventions. What? Why Is This The Last One? Ben and Jonah will explain more about why this is the last Unconventional.fun convention in this episode. They had always intended to reflect and take stock of the events by November and looking back they’re confident that they’ve accomplished what they set out to do. When Unconventional.fun started we were all in the midst of an unprecedented global pandemic that had us all stuck at our homes with no events to go to, which also provided an unprecedented opportunity to invite guests from around the world participate together in an event that could never have happened at any other time before. Now, as the world is returning to normal and in-person events resume, more and more would-be guests are no longer available to spend a weekend on their laptops as they are all, thankfully, busy and getting back to performing. So, reading the writing on the wall, Ben and Jonah have decided that this next Unconventional.fun on November 27th & 28th will be the last. Get Your Tickets Now! If you’ve never attended Unconventional.fun, don’t put it off. This is, literally, your last chance to go. You can still get your tickets at Unconventional.fun and we’ll see you there on November 27th & 28th in the prehistoric past.

This week Jonah connects with professor Richard Wiseman to discuss co-authoring his book with David Copperfield, debunking supernatural claims, and the ethical responsibilities that magicians have with their audiences. Go To The Library Richard’s introduction to magic was through his grandfather who, after performing a coin trick for him, told Richard to go to the library and find the answer to the magic himself. When Richard found the trick and taught himself he learned that his grandfather had been using a different method and had sent his grandson to the library to learn how the trick was properly performed. Moral Responsibility Richard has a lot to say on the topic of the supernatural and it’s overlaps with the magic community and he believes that magicians do have a responsibility to call out other magicians who are faking being psychics and mediums when they are not trained counselors or psychotherapists. He shares an example of running a theatrical experience of a Victorian séance, and clearly stating the audience that this is a theatrical experience so as to leave no room for interpretation that this is not truly real. Because, as he states, people have their own beliefs about the after-life and a magician has no right to step on and exploit those beliefs. Evolution of Magic Richard shares his fascination with the evolution of magic. How there is no other artform that builds on itself and its history quite like magic does. In David Copperfield’s History of Magic, Richard worked to follow that thread from P.T. Selbit’s sawing a woman in half to David Copperfield’s Death Saw. Wrap-Up What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? Richard does not like the fast-paced eye candy social media magic that is catching on. He finds it meaningless, without a narrative or a story. Richard likes anyone who can surprise him. Anything new that combines magic with other performing arts but don’t show Richard something he has seen before. Plugs Stay up to date with Richard on twitter at @RichardWiseman David Copperfield’s History of Magic published by Simon & Schuster Canada, and co-authored by Richard, is now available wherever books are sold, and covers the history of twenty-eight of the world’s most groundbreaking magicians.

This week Jonah shares with you three tips to help you get better at booking gigs. Over the course of the last two years Jonah has helped about sixty magicians book virtual gigs and over the past few months he’s helped a couple dozen magicians to book real-world gigs. Jonah will walk you through the three biggest problems that magicians struggle with when booking gigs. #1. Missing Authority At first Jonah thought it would be good to market himself as an all purpose magician. But very quickly realized that if you are an everybody magician, if you are an all-purpose magician, like all purpose flour, then you’re a magician for nobody. Nobody’s going to go to your website and say, “oh my goodness, this person is perfect! They’ve done so many bookings, just like this”. When looking at all of the successful magicians that Jonah knows, one thing that just became immediately clear is every single one of those magicians performs for one type of audience. What is the first big thing that people struggle with when they are booking gigs? That is missing authority. Overall,the way to really unlock getting bookings is not to try to be everyone’s magician, but to try to first pick a specific group.You want to figure out which group of people is the perfect group for you. #2. Sales Discomfort Not every single person is naturally inclined to say very high numbers and say risky numbers. And a lot of the times when Jonah speaks to magicians, they either don’t talk to their clients on the phone or they quote themselves for very low prices because they don’t want anyone to say no. What is the solution? You have to be really comfortable. How do you do that? You have got to know what you’re selling. You have to know the price that you’re selling it at, and you have to be confident about that. And you have to be able to sell it on the phone and know what to say and how to say it. And a system is the best way to do that. #3. Lack of Leads The truth is it is Show and Business. You have to be good at the show, but you also have to be good at the business. The big issue that magicians struggle with is not that they don’t have gigs coming in, it’s that they don’t have leads coming in. And what are the three easiest things that you can do right now to help you actually book some leads? Number one, peers and past clients, your very close friends, and people who you’ve maybe done volunteer or some paid gigs for in the past. Number two is social media, a great place to connect with people who love you and want to support you. And number three is email outreach. There’s many different systems using software and data scraping to connect with your target market. Need More Help? If you are interested in working together, Jonah has a group starting this week to help magicians get 3k to 5k a month in magic gigs. It’s a 10 week program and it is starting next week. If you think that might be for you email info at discourse dot com and send Jonah an email with the word “gigs” as the subject line. If you’re already at 3k to 5k a month, and you want to get up to six figures a year, then send Jonah the same email but with the word “scale” as a subject line.

This week Jonah connects with Jeff McBride to talk all about the theatre of magic, the phases that every magician might go through, and his thoughts on the growth of virtual magic shows. Jeff comes from an era of magic when there wasn’t street magic and social media but a strong emphasis on theatre. Combining his love of various forms of theatre and rock icons like David Bowie and Alice Cooper, Jeff’s on stage presence is a unique style that has left its impact on the magic world. Mystery School Jeff McBride’s Mystery School has been online and streaming every week for eleven years so when the world locked down during the pandemic Jeff was already in a unique position help fellow magicians and aspiring students to get set up in order to face the challenges of the year to come. Fitting The Virtual Screen Jeff is a master of stage magic, creating theatrical experiences, but social media magic has to fit into a small frame on a small screen. Adapting his theatrical background to virtual zoom shows hasn’t been without its challenges but Jeff has found online performance to be very rewarding and he believes that it’s here to stay, both in the corporate and public market, so Jeff has been shaping his performances to fit into the virtual screen. Phases of Magic Jeff teaches classes on the styles of magic, what he calls the Trickster, Warlock, Oracle, and Sage stages. Each of these are the archetypes and different ways that people access information. Most of us get into magic because of the wonders of magic, the trickster stage. If one sticks with it and hones their communication and stagecraft they might end up with a career in magic, the warlock stage. Some people dive deep into the magic and examine the philosophy and psychology of magic, the oracle stage. Finally, the sage stage represents how most people interact with magic, not as performers but as collectors and lovers of magic. Plugs You can reach out to Jeff directly at jeff(at)mcbridemagic.com, and while it might take him a week to get back to you he does respond to every message. If you’d like to learn more about the Magic Mystery School, visit magicalwisdom.com

This week Jonah connects with Giancarlo Bernini to talk all about his journey navigating the pandemic so soon after his major breakout in magic on Fool Us and his innovations in bringing magic to cryptocurrency NFTs. The Year That Wasn’t When Giancarlo graduated college and soon after appeared on Fool Us the rest of his year in 2019 skyrocketed with more bookings and more opportunities than he had ever had. And Before he could even get close to experiencing all that momentum’s full potential the pandemic hit and put a stop to all his plans. From that time he’s worked to reinvent his magic in the new virtual era, which has in turn encouraged him to develop new strategies into his live in-person shows. Protecting The Ownership Of Magic While developing his own magic, Giancarlo has a particular interest in tackling the tricky problem of magic ownership. As you know, there’s really an easy or elegant way to patent a magic invention, or claim a copyright, or request royalties without eventually publishing your secrets in a way that can be easily accessed by the general public, if they know where to look. Working on that problem led Giancarlo to the current rise in the popularity of crypto currencies, block chains, and NFTs. He helps break down what all these means with Jonah and shares his solution that believes will allow future magicians to protect their intellectual property without also exposing their secrets to the world around them. On The Road Again As the pandemic has waned and vaccine rates have risen, there’s a growing interest in audiences who want to return to attending live shows in person. But corporate events and other big booking shows that many magicians depend on are still mainly existing in a virtual space. So Giancarlo put his foot down and set in motion one of his bucket list life goals and embarked on his first national tour. How did he choose which cities to visit? And how does he find the venues to perform in? He shares with Jonah his entire strategy for booking and planning a national tour that continues to pick up steam and is lasting a lot longer than even Giancarlo thought it would. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Blaise Serra. He’s the best sleight of hand artist that Giancarlo has ever met. He also does incredible stage stuff, has an incredible eye for theatrical stuff, and has consulted for some incredible people. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? Giancarlo likes the intimacy that magic is becoming, especially with certain performances that are redefining what to expect at a magic show. He doesn’t like to see magic clubs continue to dwindle and disappear and hopes that new and upcoming magicians will still be able to find mentors to learn under. Plugs You can find more about Giancarlo Bernini at berninimagic.com As well as on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook all under @berninimagic His tour continues all over the United States and he hopes to see you. You can find out more at berninimagic.com/tour And be sure to message him if you’d like him to attend your city!

This week Jonah connects with Tyler Rabbit to talk all about his amazing work with coin magic and his thoughts on the suspension of disbelief and the rise of exposure videos. Tyler Rabbit is an incredibly talented coin magic performer, who has also performed at The Magic Castle. But it wasn’t always this way and this conversation Tyler shares with Jonah his love-hate relationship with magic and what pushed him to give up on magic entirely before returning seven years ago and starting fresh with a focus in coin magic. Performing With Limitations Tyler admits that coin magic has a well deserved reputation of having the smallest effort to pay-off ratio. You’re going to put in a lot of work and ultimately you’re not getting that much magical effect out of it compared to putting in the same level of effort into card magic. That limitation and challenge is one of the reasons that Tyler is so attracted to coin magic. He shares with Jonah how he challenges himself to innovate with such heavy (and with coins that’s literally heavy) limitations. By focusing on making sure his sleights are in service to his concept and plot he’s discovered limitless possibilities for his routine. The Fake Exposure When Tyler is not innovating with coin magic he’s battling online content creators who expose magic secrets. And while he’s found some success in engaging in the comments section, including having some videos taken down, he’s found a more novel approach to both combat exposure culture and satiate his weird sense of humour. On his Coin Magic Underground channel on Youtube he released a video entitled How To Vanish A Coin From A Spectator’s Hand, a fake exposure video that is the first step in a series of hidden clues and puzzles that will eventually, if the the person is dedicated enough, reward you a treasure trove of actual coin magic explanations. Tyler doesn’t actually hate exposing magic’s secrets, after all it was from a library book that he found that got him started in the first place, but he does believe that someone should put in the legwork if they want to learn the tricks of the trade. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Jackson “Jax” Ridd is one of Tyler’s closest friends and one of the minds behind Four Suits Magic. Cydney Kaplan is an up and coming magician performing at the Magic Castle right now. Mokoto is wise beyond his years and is primarily known for his coinistry and street magic. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? Tyler likes all the new stuff, including cardistry. He thinks cardistry is awesome and they go really well with card magic. He also loves that it’s flying in the face of the male stoicism that persists in magic circles. Tyler is not crazy about exposure videos and tutorial videos. He also personally doesn’t like doing Zoom shows. He recognizes that there is amazing work being done there but doing magic live on video just doesn’t do it for him. Plugs The Coin Magic Underground YouTube Channel You can follow Tyler on Instagram at @tylerrabs

This week Jonah connects with Colin McLeod to talk about his return to his live show at the Mirage in Vegas. Together they talk about his journey from comedy to magic, and the very different goals they each have with the audience, and his thoughts on making sure that his brand of mentalism is being presented to the audience in an entertaining but also ethical way. Comedy vs Magic Colin shares with us how his pursuit of magic and mentalism came after his pursuit of comedy. It was the deceptive quality of magic that turned him away and instead he was drawn to the world of comedy because of its ability to connect to apparent truths. Because of this comedy background, everything Colin does is done with the framework of connecting with the audience and impacting them in some way. He would rather use his performances using magic and mentalism as a bridge rather than a barrier. The result is his performances are very interactive and focus on Colin presenting himself as an authentic real self rather than the mysterious god-like magician that an audience might not be able to relate to. The Real Connection When audiences buy into you they then will buy into what it is you are doing. Colin breaks down how his Sherlock Holmes character builds those bridges. The character that will work for you most, according to Colin, is the one you enjoy being most. It will be a version of you that accentuates and highlights aspects of your character that will then further accentuate highlights of your magic. Being the Best You Can Be Very early on Colin made a list of the things he wanted to accomplish. The people he wanted to work with, the stages he wanted to perform, and so on. Having that list gave him the goals to aim towards and pushed him towards being the best he could be in those areas. What Colin really wants to see is other magicians pushing themselves and being the best that they can be in all of their weird and wonderful ways. Wrap-Up Endless Chain David Gerard, the smartest person that Colin knows. He’s been the co-writer and director of every live show and major TV appearance that Colin has done. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? What Colin likes is also what he dislikes. Which is that a lot of great ideas have come out during the pandemic but the flip side of that is a lot of those great ideas have since been stolen by others, which is a real double edged sword. Colin loves being in Vegas and being spoiled by all the amazing magic shows. Plugs Colin releases a lot of magic through Theory 11 You can also visit his personal site at psych-artist.com But you should absolutely be safe and visit Las Vegas to see his live show, Limitless, with Shin Lim at the Mirage.

This week Jonah has advice to help you succeed during the most important time of the year for a professional magician. This month, and the next three months, are very important months for your magic business. September, October, November, and December are ridiculously important months for your magic business. The Most Important People To Reach Out To So aside from doing everything with your marketing to find new people Jonah recommends three groups of people that you may have forgotten about and to go reach out and say hello.These groups are people who are very likely to say yes. The three groups are your Yeses, your Nos, and your Maybes. If you have been in magic for any amount of time, you’ve had a lot of bookings come through inquiries. You’ve had lots of bookings that will work and not work. And this right now is a really good time to collect the list of everyone you’ve ever done a paid booking for and everybody who’s ever said, “no” and everybody who’s ever said, “maybe”. That list of people is a list of people who already know, like, and trust you. And it’s a list that is going to get you a whole lot of movement this time of year, because it’s very likely that if they put on an event last year, around this time, they may be looking to put on an event this year, around this time. You should be reaching out to them right now. Need More Help? If you need help reaching out to your past clients, if you need help converting past relationships into new bookings or finding new bookings then email [email protected] with the subject line “gigs”. Jonah will tell you about the program he’s doing right now to help you get some gigs right now, a program to help magicians get from $3,000 to $5,000 a month in virtual or in-person magic income. So if you need some help booking gigs, whether it’s for the first time to get to the scale of $3,000 to $5,000, or if you’re just trying to return there, or you want some help with your past clients or with your marketing material, then email Jonah [email protected] with the word “gigs” in the title.