
Between Two Chairs - Demystifying Commercial Real Estate
Fernando Arencibia, Jr. and Jennifer Wollmann
Show overview
Between Two Chairs - Demystifying Commercial Real Estate has been publishing since 2023, and across the 3 years since has built a catalogue of 161 episodes. That works out to roughly 100 hours of audio in total. Releases follow a weekly cadence, with the show now in its 4th season.
Episodes typically run twenty to thirty-five minutes — most land between 29 min and 43 min — though episode length varies meaningfully from one episode to the next. It is catalogued as a EN-language Business show.
The show is actively publishing — the most recent episode landed yesterday, with 20 episodes already out so far this year. Published by Fernando Arencibia, Jr. and Jennifer Wollmann.
From the publisher
Welcome to Between Two Chairs: Demystifying Commercial Real Estate, the podcast that brings you the latest insights and trends from the Miami commercial real estate industry. Co-hosts Fernando Arencibia Jr. and Jennifer Wollmann, both former Chairman of the Board for the largest local real estate association in the Country, the Miami Association of Realtors, bring a wealth of experience and knowledge to every conversation.In each episode, we dive deep into the world of commercial real estate in Miami, speaking with market leaders, exploring the latest trends, and breaking down complex concepts to make them accessible for everyone.Whether you're a seasoned real estate professional, a curious investor, or just interested in the Miami market in general, Between Two Chairs is the podcast for you. So sit back, relax, and join us as we demystify the world of commercial real estate in Miami.
Latest Episodes
View all 161 episodesMiami’s New Cycle: How Wealth Migration Is Repricing Office, Retail, Multifamily & Logistics
Is “A Picture Is Worth a 1,000 Words" Still True? Serena Ziv of Proofmark, Discusses Trust and the Rise of Hybrid Media”
Why Coworking Spaces Are Thriving in Miami
Building Resilience and Sustainability in South Florida Commercial Real Estate
Lessons on Environmental Legacy by Dr. Seuss' The Lorax

S4 Ep 156Using AI As a Real Estate Advisor? Beware of Confirmation Bias
In this episode we dive into an Instagram post by Ryan Serhant that starts with "ChatGPT blew up my $50 million deal". We use a lot of large language models to help us automate tasks, give us alternate scenarios that we may not be taking into consideration, but if you are using ChatGPT as a real estate advisor, you need to beware of confirmation bias. Large language models tend to confirm ideas and beliefs we already have so it is going to feed you the information you want to hear. A way to get over that is better prompts, uploading unbiased data or information and make sure you are not asking a question to assuage a fear or doubt you may have.

S4 Ep 155Turning Commercial Real Estate On It's Head: The Women Real Estate Investment Summit
From 3 - 30%...that is Beth Azor's goal for increasing the number of women who invest in real estate. Is it doable? Absolutely! Through the collaboration and relationships made at the Women Real Estate Investment Summit, women who want to invest are able to network with women who are already investing or who syndicate real estate deals.Tune in to hear some of the highlights of this years summit.

S4 Ep 154Panama Hats, Cigars, Bass Guitars & Miami CRE: A Conversation With Ruben Ruban
Affectionately known as Ruben the Cuban, Ruben Ruban is a senior advisor at SVN who specializes in mixed use developments and asset repositioning. He is also the 2026 President of CCIM’s Miami Chapter, as well as the host of the CRE Cafecito Podcast.With his Panama hat and cigar in pocket, he epitomizes the Miami Cuban flair and brings that sense of warmth, culture, and diversity that makes Miami such a great place to live, work, play & invest.In this episode, Ruben leads us through some of the deals he has done, his thoughts on where in the cycle Miami real estate is, and where some of the growth and opportunities are today.

S4 Ep 153Beyond the Deal: How Commercial Real Estate Builds Family Legacies
In this episode, we explore what it really means to build generational wealth through commercial real estate—and why the mindset required is fundamentally different from the traditional transaction-driven approach many investors take.The conversation challenges the common short-term investment cycle and introduces a powerful alternative: thinking in decades and even centuries, not quarters or years. Instead of focusing solely on immediate returns, we discuss how long-term ownership of strategic assets—such as land and trophy properties—can create enduring financial stability for families.But generational wealth isn’t simply about acquiring more assets. It requires intentional planning, financial literacy, and thoughtful stewardship. From estate planning strategies to tax-advantaged structures, the episode highlights how families can design systems that preserve wealth while empowering future generations to remain productive and responsible stewards.The discussion also touches on a critical shift for real estate professionals and investors: moving from transactional thinking to legacy building. When commercial real estate is approached with a long-term vision, it has the potential not only to transform family balance sheets, but also to shape communities and support lasting economic impact.Whether you’re a commercial real estate professional, investor, or someone thinking about the financial future of your family, this episode invites you to reconsider your time horizon and ask a powerful question:Are you closing deals… or building something that will benefit generations to come?Generational wealth isn’t built deal by deal. It’s built with a vision that extends far beyond your lifetime.

S4 Ep 152What Are The Foundations of Success Driving Florida's Gold Coast Growth?
Tune in to this episode to learn more about the Florida Council of 100's Ambition Accelerated Campaign highlighting Florida's Gold Coast as center for the next generation of growth. Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade have been booming and though outsiders discuss a bust, those of us with boots on the ground are not seeing it largely due to the dedication people like Stephen Ross and Ken Griffin are pouring into the area."Where you choose to build a business determines how much time is spent driving growth versus navigating bureaucracy" - Ken Griffin

S4 Ep 151Democratizing Real Estate & The Accredited Investor Rule
If I can invest in the stock market, crypto or gamble my life savings away without having to prove that I have the financial warewithal to do so, why do I have to be an accredited investor to invest in real estate? In this epsiode, we discuss the lawsuit that is challenging the accredited investor rule and how unlocking access to real estate investing would "...fuel life-changing innovation, and prove that America's markets work best when they are open to everyone...."

S4 Ep 150Balancing The Old With The New: A Conversation With South Miami Mayor Javier Fernandez
February’s theme, The Power of People & Place, comes to life in our conversation with South Miami Mayor Javier Fernandez—attorney, former State House Representative, and civic leader guiding a “town going through a period of growth and dynamic change.”In this episode, we explore the social side of development—how cities evolve, how community identity is preserved, and why intentional growth is the difference between thriving and being forced to react.Mayor Fernandez shares a compelling comparison between cities like Paris and London—dense, walkable, mixed-use environments that feel human-scaled and integrated.His insight: If development isn’t intentional, it will eventually be forced by rising land values.“When you don’t invest or allow for investment to happen over time, land becomes more valuable, returns have to be larger because the basis is higher.”

S4 Ep 149What A World Wonder Teaches Us About Building Community in Commercial Real Estate
This month’s theme — The Power of People & Place — comes to life through the children’s book A World Wonder by Laura Wiffler. with its message that speaks directly to the heart of commercial real estate: the spaces we build shape the way people experience community.In this episode, we explore how differences in people and buildings create the fabric of a neighborhood — whether we are building, buying, redeveloping, or leasing, what we are ultimately shaping is the community experience.Using Miami as our case study, we connect themes from the book to our own backyard:Ease of Travel & Connectivity Walkable urban cores, transit corridors, our international and executive airports and the ports, all connect us to our community and the world beyond, Diversity of Places & Architecture Miami’s layered identity — historic, modern, waterfront, cultural — reflects the book’s celebration of differences. Landmarks like the Freedom Tower and cultural institutions like the Pérez Art Museum Miami (PAMM) anchor community identity and tell the story of place.Community Through Events Events create shared experiences that define cities. Gatherings like Ultra Music Festival and global moments such as the 2026 FIFA World Cup energize neighborhoods, activate real estate, and elevate Miami’s position on the world stage.This episode also serves as a thoughtful companion to our recent conversation with MJ Green of the Miami Downtown Development Authority, where we discussed how intentional development can strengthen the social fabric of downtown.At its core, A World Wonder reminds us that buildings are never just buildings. They are invitations, to gathers and create experiences.If you’re in commercial real estate, this episode will challenge you to think beyond transactions and toward transformation — because real estate decisions ripple far beyond square footage and rent rolls.

S4 Ep 148Miami CRE 2026: Stabilization, Shifting Leverage & the Affordability Question
"Mixed Urban Is A Trend, Not Trendy" The 2026 CCIM Miami Monroe Outlook Conference delivered a clear message: Miami’s commercial real estate market is not collapsing — it’s recalibrating.In this episode, we break down the biggest takeaways from industry leaders including Jeffrey Havsey of Moody’s Analytics, Terry Fraser Reid of Miami Freedom Park, Michael Berkowitz of Berkowitz Development Group, South Miami Mayor Javier Fernandez, Carrie Smith of Franklin Street, Grant Killingsworth of CBRE, Edison Vasquez of ComReal, and Mitash Kripalani of Cushman & Wakefield.Some of the highlights include:Retail: Notable submarkets:BrickellWynwoodCoral GablesCoconut Grove (reestablished primary market)South Miami (Sunset Place redevelopment catalyst)Industrial: 2025 favored tenants, with:Higher concessionsSlower lease-up timesTariff-related pauses mid-yearBut new construction has slowed significantly, meaning fewer deliveries in 2–3 years. By Q4 2026, leverage is projected to shift back toward landlords.A key tension to watch: the disconnect between developer-required land pricing ($2–$2.5M/acre) and owner expectations ($3M+/acre).The Big Picture for 2026: Miami CRE is entering a phase of:Slower but stabilizing fundamentalsModerating rent growthDecelerating supplyImproving sentimentSector-specific leverage shiftsIt’s no longer a frenzy market. It’s a fundamentals market.And in that environment, underwriting, local expertise, and strategic positioning matter more than ever.

S4 Ep 147Miami Is Having A Major Moment Right Now - Interview with Miami DDA's MJ Green
Miami Downtown Development Authority Chief of Economic Development and Strategy, MJ Green joins us to talk about Miami's major moment. We dive into the challenges, such as how to bring new business in while keeping the small businesses that help create Miami's culture; the focus of the DDA on individuals: safety, cleanliness, and events and business: incentive programs, networking, permitting assistance; and insights on where we are heading. Glydways, Brightline, Metrorail, Metromover and Freebee are all part of the transportation network that is going to help us get there. Learn how the DDA can assist you in transactions you have within the DDA boundaries. They are amazing partners whether you are a broker or owner!

S4 Ep 1462026 Word of the Year: Affordability, Affordability, Affordability
It is an election year, which means Florida Realtors and the Florida Legislature start their meetings and session much earlier than usual. The conversations this year are all about affordability and potential policies that can make Florida more affordable. Insurance, housing, property taxes, permitting and zoning all affect affordability and legislators are looking at all of these items. Think Bigger is something Beth Azor encourages her women investors to do and we think it is appropriate in this context as well. Thinking bigger allows for a big picture view of how a policy aimed at one sector may affect another, often with uninteded consequences. How can tech help address some of the inefficiencies that lead to increase costs and, therefore, a decrease in affordability. These topics and more are explored in this issue, where we highlight some of the topics that arose during our midwinter meetings.

S4 Ep 145The Financial Economy Was Not Built For Self-Employed People
"The financial economy is built for people on salary, the whole thing," explains Brandon Wright, serial entrepreneur and CEO & Founder of Tongo, Monthly bills assume you’re paid twice a month. Credit scores reward predictable paychecks and penalize irregular income. Yet the majority of real estate agents, brokers, and investors are self-employed.In this episode, Brandon shares how his own entrepreneurial journey revealed the disconnect between modern work and outdated financial infrastructure—and how that insight led to the creation of Tongo. We explore the real financial challenges faced by indepenent contractors and small business owners, from cash-flow volatility to credit access, and what it takes to build tools that actually reflect how people earn money today.Whether you are a real estate broker, agent or investor, this episode will show you how to save more of what you make and free up your time to do what you do best, putting deals together and closing transactions.

S4 Ep 144Anatomy of a Deal - Strip Center in Lake Worth Beach
Join us as we break down a small strip center listing we had in a transitioning market. How does pricing affect the number of offers you get? How do you work with multiple absentee owners, owners who don't want to counter any offers, what happens when you are circumvented after an NDA is signed. One thing about commercial real estate is that no two deals are ever the same and we learn something with every transaction. Pull up a chair and see if you learn anything as we dissect this deal.

S4 Ep 143Down & Dirty Due Diligence: Grease Traps, Storm Drains, and Septic Systems in CRE
EGrease traps, storm drains, and septic tanks may not be glamorous—but ignoring them can derail a deal, delay an opening, or lead to major unexpected costs.In this episode, we get down and dirty with the experts at Day & Night Septic to uncover why these systems deserve serious attention during the due diligence phase of commercial real estate transactions—not just for purchases, but for leases as well, especially NNN leases where maintenance and repair obligations may fall squarely on the tenant.Section 21-49.2 of the Code of Miami-Dade County requires the seller or lessor to provide the purchaser or lessee with a FOG Generator Disclosure (Fats Oil & Grease)

S4 Ep 142Happy New Year! What Does 2026 Have In Store For Commercial Real Estate?
The commercial refrain since 2022 or 2023 has been "Survive 'til '25". The extremely rapid rise in interest rates brought a lot of uncertainty to the market, especially for those assets with loans coming due at a time when rents were lower, vacancy rates were higher and, as a result, valuations were lower. Well, '25 is in the rear view mirror and the 4th quarter in South Florida, at least at our company, was strong in terms of both leasing and sales. Is this a sign of a 2026 CRE resurgence? Tune in to hear from ULI and The Counselors of Real Estate predictions for this year. We wish you a healthy and prosperous 2026 with new deals, relationships, and opportunities for growth.