BE THAT LAWYER

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brian LaCien discuss: Building systems that create consistency Growing your practice through relationships Learning through mentorship and mistakes Knowing when to push and when to stop Key Takeaways: Every case is different, but your process should not be. Strong systems like checklists and workflows help you stay organized and reliable, especially in long and complex litigation. The best cases come from trust, not volume marketing. Building genuine relationships and staying visible in the legal community drives consistent referrals and long-term growth. Becoming a great trial lawyer requires experience, guidance, and room to fail. The right mentors and real courtroom reps shape your skill far more than theory alone. One extra question can hurt your case. Great lawyers understand timing, knowing when they’ve made their point and having the discipline to stop. "Every case is different, but how you approach it should be really similar, so that you may not remember doing something six months ago, but you know you did it because that's the way you do things." — Brian LaCien Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Brian LaCien: Brian LaCien is a trial lawyer and co-founder of Smith LaCien LLP, where he represents individuals in complex personal injury and wrongful death cases. With nearly two decades of experience, he has built a reputation for handling high-stakes litigation with a disciplined, detail-oriented approach rooted in strong case strategy and preparation. Before co-founding his firm, Brian spent 17 years at a leading plaintiff trial firm, where he developed his skills under experienced litigators and gained extensive courtroom and deposition experience. He is committed to the civil justice system as a way to hold powerful institutions accountable and advocates for his clients with both precision and persistence. Connect with Brian LaCien: Website: https://www.smithlacien.com/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Megan Hargroder discuss: Building trust over chasing tactics Positioning with clarity and specificity Showing authenticity to attract the right clients Using story and proof to strengthen credibility Key Takeaways: Modern marketing is shifting away from quick SEO tricks toward real human engagement. When people genuinely connect with your content and stay on your site, it signals trust. That trust is what drives visibility and long-term growth. Trying to speak to everyone weakens your authority. Focusing on a clear niche helps people understand what you do and see you as the go-to expert. Repeating one core message consistently builds recognition and trust. Relatable language, personality, and even humor make you memorable. The goal is not to impress peers but to connect with people. When you show who you really are, you naturally draw in the right clients and filter out the wrong ones. Your bio and reviews are powerful trust builders when done right. Sharing why you do what you do and highlighting specific results helps people see themselves in your story. Detailed proof builds confidence far more than generic praise. "You want to be turning the right people on, and you want to be turning the wrong people off at all times." — Megan Hargroder Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Megan Hargroder: Megan Hargroder is a legal marketing strategist and entrepreneur known for helping law firms grow through authentic, relationship-driven marketing. As the founder of Legends Legal Marketing, she specializes in building systems that connect attorneys with referral partners and drive consistent business development. With a background in both marketing and operations, Megan brings a practical, results-focused approach to scaling professional services. She is passionate about mentorship, community building, and helping lawyers create sustainable growth by aligning strategy, systems, and personal strengths. Connect with Megan Hargroder: Website: https://heyitsmegan.com/ , https://legendslegalmarketing.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heyitsmegan/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Armando Leduc discuss: Building authority through podcasting Overcoming mindset barriers Leveraging content strategically Maintaining consistency for compounding impact Key Takeaways: Hosting a weekly podcast allows lawyers to create a systematic referral network, strengthen relationships with industry partners, and position themselves as trusted authorities over time. Addressing fear, self-doubt, and perceived market saturation helps attorneys gain confidence on camera and embrace personal branding as a growth tool. Repurposing podcast recordings into articles, social posts, and even books multiplies visibility and ensures each interview provides long-term business development value. Persistently producing niche-focused content over months and years compounds authority, relationships, and opportunities, turning podcasting into a long-term growth engine. "If you're an estate planning attorney, start a podcast... but number two, bring in financial advisors and family lawyers and wealth advisors and CPAs and people that are in the space that can refer you business." — Armando Leduc Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Armando Leduc: Armando Leduc is the CEO of Leduc Entertainment, a social media management company. Armando is a multifaceted and driven artist who has carved a niche for himself in the entertainment sector through determination, hard work, and an innate gift for storytelling. With a growing list of achievements and a steadfast commitment to his craft, Armando continually strives for excellence, leaving audiences eagerly anticipating his next creative endeavor. Connect with Armando Leduc: Website: https://www.leducentertainment.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/leducentertainment Twitter: https://twitter.com/armandoleduc Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leducentertainment/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0BozS4ZM-1TqOcwSl2l0Q LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/armando-leduc-16ba4940 Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brian Hansen discuss: Planning before marketing Specializing in impact Prioritizing practical channels Using AI and content wisely Key Takeaways: Lawyers should focus on strategy, clear goals, and growth plans before jumping into ads or SEO. Thinking like a business owner prevents reactive, scattered efforts. Narrowing focus to niches ensures higher-quality results and avoids mediocrity. Saying no to misaligned work preserves reputation and effectiveness. Local Service Ads, SEO fundamentals, Maps visibility, and strong reviews drive results. Smaller firms may rely more on networking, referrals, and credibility than on heavy SEO spend. AI accelerates work, but expertise remains critical. Authentic, experience-based content on platforms clients actually use delivers lasting value. "We only want to do what we're really good at… don’t do anything that you're going to do with a C plus or a B minus." — Brian Hansen Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Brian Hansen: Brian Hansen is the founder and CEO of Rocket Pilots, a San Diego-based digital marketing agency specializing in helping law firms grow through targeted SEO, Local Service Ads, and paid media strategies. Since launching the agency in 2016, Brian has focused on delivering measurable results, ethical practices, and client-centered strategies that prioritize real business outcomes over vanity metrics. With expertise in niche marketing, strategy-driven campaigns, and consultative client relationships, he helps law firms navigate competitive markets and achieve sustainable growth while sharing insights on legal marketing and technology trends with the professional community. Connect with Brian Hansen: Website: https://rocketpilots.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianghansen/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Owili Eison discuss: Thinking like an intrapreneur, not just an employee Balancing legal skill with business development Networking intentionally to build referral pipelines Using technology and AI to stay competitive Key Takeaways: Lawyers who rely entirely on their firm for work risk having little control over their future. Building a personal brand, developing referral relationships, and generating your own clients creates long-term career security and flexibility. A successful legal career has two sides: practicing the law and building the firm. Lawyers who focus only on technical legal work often miss the larger opportunity, since referral relationships and originations frequently generate the greatest long-term value. Effective networking is targeted, not random. By focusing on lawyers in complementary practice areas and building genuine, reciprocal relationships, attorneys can create steady referral partnerships that grow over time. Modern legal practice increasingly relies on tools that improve efficiency and insight. Lawyers who adopt technologies like AI for document review, intake summaries, and research can work faster, scale their impact, and stay ahead in a rapidly changing profession. "There’s two aspects to our business and the law operation. There’s the law and the firm… You need to focus on both and have a holistic approach to the business and practice of law, otherwise I think you’re going to find yourself in a tough position.” — Owili Eison Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Owili Eison: Owili K. Eison is a Los Angeles-based personal injury attorney and Partner at BD&J, where he focuses on catastrophic injury litigation. He also supervises a team of 20 associates and staff, helping train the next generation of trial lawyers to advocate for those harmed by negligence. A graduate of the University of Southern California and Loyola Law School, Los Angeles, Owili participated in Loyola’s Trial Advocacy Program and later completed both the CAALA Plaintiff’s Trial Academy and the Jack Daniels ABOTA Trial Academy. Owili was inspired to pursue personal injury law after suffering serious injuries when he was struck by a negligent driver in a crosswalk. Since then, he has handled thousands of cases involving automobile accidents, wrongful death, premises liability, and medical malpractice. In just over nine years at BD&J, he has recovered more than $500 million for his clients and built a reputation as a tenacious yet pragmatic advocate. Connect with Owili Eison: Website: https://www.bdj.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/owilieison Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Colleen Young discuss: Building trust through consistent visibility Growing through relationships, referrals, and the right fit Aligning marketing and intake to convert the right clients Using time and resources more strategically Key Takeaways: Consistent marketing builds recognition and credibility over time. Because legal services are intangible and high-stakes, potential clients rely less on impulse and more on trust, familiarity, and a sense that the lawyer understands their needs. Many successful firms grow through community presence and strong referral networks rather than pure advertising. The most sustainable practices are built around clients, partners, and team members who are the right cultural and professional fit. Marketing should nurture and educate prospects before they ever contact the firm. Intake then acts as a strategic filter, qualifying leads and converting the right, profitable matters rather than simply accepting every potential case. Lawyers should focus on legal expertise and relationship-building rather than trying to execute every marketing task themselves. Delegating content production, intake, and administrative work allows firms to maintain consistent marketing while using time and budget more effectively. "Marketing should be teeing up, not cold leads, but nurtured leads for the sales team." — Colleen Young Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Colleen Young: Colleen Young is the Chief Marketing Officer at Get Staffed Up, where she helps law firms grow through smarter marketing, stronger intake systems, and strategic delegation. With more than 25 years of experience across professional services and B2B industries, she specializes in helping attorneys turn marketing into real client relationships by focusing on trust, community presence, and well-nurtured leads. At Get Staffed Up, Colleen also advocates for using virtual assistants and remote teams so lawyers can spend less time on administrative work and more time practicing law and building meaningful client connections. Connect with Colleen Young: Website: https://getstaffedup.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleen-young-marketing/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Robert Hartmann discuss: Taking ownership of the business of law Building rainmaking skills through empathy and responsiveness Preparing for independence before you need it Networking strategically, not randomly Key Takeaways: Law school prepares lawyers for doctrine, not for marketing, leadership, or running a practice. Lawyers must take responsibility for learning how to generate work and build a book of business. The safest career path is being able to stand on your own if circumstances change. Empathy, honesty, and fast communication are powerful differentiators in a crowded market. Treating clients and referral sources with care strengthens reputation and repeat business. Soft skills practiced early, especially as an associate, lay the foundation for becoming a future Rainmaker. Every lawyer should be financially and operationally ready to go solo if necessary. That includes savings, strong professional relationships, and clarity around overhead and support systems. Leaving firms well and preserving bridges can turn former employers into future referral sources. Effective networking focuses on finding a small group of true strategic partners, not collecting business cards. Let others speak first, listen well, and align your value to their needs. Consistent systems and intentional follow-through turn relationships into long-term referral engines. "Everybody has the ability with a few simple soft skills to become a good Rainmaker." — Robert Hartmann Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Robert Hartmann: Robert Hartmann is the founder of Hartmann Law Firm and an advocate for helping attorneys develop the soft skills needed to build successful legal careers. With years of experience practicing law and running a boutique firm, Robert emphasizes the importance of networking, relationship-building, and business development, skills often overlooked in traditional legal education. Through his work, he encourages lawyers to take ownership of their careers by building their own books of business and cultivating meaningful professional relationships. Robert is also the author of the upcoming book Making It Rain, which provides practical guidance and checklists for attorneys who want to become effective rainmakers and prepare for starting their own practice. Passionate about mentorship and professional growth, Robert regularly shares insights on networking, empathy in client relationships, and strategic career planning for lawyers. Connect with Robert Hartmann: Website: https://www.hartmannlawfirm.net/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-hartmann-565a5919/ Email: [email protected] Phone: 714-381-1366 Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Leah Miller discuss: Run your law firm like a business, not a hobby Use accurate financials to avoid hidden risks and overpayment Track key metrics and benchmarks for people, operations, and marketing Leverage metrics to make strategic growth decisions Key Takeaways: Long-term growth requires regular attention to financials. Cash in the bank is not a strategy; data should guide hiring, marketing, and operational decisions. Bad bookkeeping masks problems and can cost in taxes. Early investment in a bookkeeper or financial team yields high ROI and clarity. Monitor payroll, operating costs, and marketing spend as percentages of revenue. Focus on trends over time and adapt to what works for your firm. Financial data informs hiring, marketing, and process improvements. Treat new hires as investments, plan for cash gaps, and track time spent on business development for accountability. "If you're not paying attention to the dollars and you're not operational decisions based on the finances, you are not going to have that long-term, sustained growth that you're looking for as a lawyer in a firm." — Leah Miller Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Leah Miller: Leah N. Miller, MBA, is the founder and CEO of Firmly Profits, a firm providing fractional CFO and bookkeeping services to law firms across the United States. Starting her career as a paralegal, Leah rose to become a firm administrator and CFO at a personal injury law firm in Fort Myers, Florida, where she recognized the need for law firm owners to gain confidence in their finances. Passionate about helping attorneys achieve financial clarity and sustainable growth, she now leads a team dedicated to offering expert financial guidance, process improvement, and strategic planning for firms of all sizes. Outside of work, Leah teaches paralegal courses and enjoys spending time with her husband and three daughters in sunny Southwest Florida. Connect with Leah Miller: Website: https://firmlyprofits.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LNMFinancialServices/videos LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/firmlyprofits/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/LNM-Financial-Services/100091343407958/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leah_lnm_financial/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Gary Miles discuss: Facing fear with clarity Owning your internal authority Focusing on the process, not the outcome Building freedom through micro-shifts Key Takeaways: Fear is common in legal careers, often hidden behind competence. Recognize that much of it is imagined, not reality. Facing it openly allows lawyers to act with clarity and confidence. Internal authority matters more than external validation. Measure success by your own standards, preparation, and effort, not by others’ opinions or metrics. This mindset creates professional freedom and peace of mind. Enjoying the process improves performance more than obsessing over outcomes. Focus on preparation, relationships, and skill-building instead of constant comparison or pressure to “win.” This approach fosters growth and satisfaction. Small, practical shifts build lasting change. Replace self-critical thoughts with supportive ones, set clear boundaries, and evaluate progress by skill, enjoyment, and well-being. Over time, these micro-actions compound into meaningful professional freedom. “There’s fear everywhere. Unfortunately, the reality is that we have to lean into it… We have to lean into the fear and make mistakes, and that’s how we improve." — Gary Miles Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Gary Miles: Gary Miles is a trial attorney and former managing partner with over 40 years of legal experience, now dedicated to coaching lawyers to thrive. Drawing on his own journey managing complex cases and running a successful firm, he helps attorneys overcome fear, limiting beliefs, and burnout while building practices aligned with their values. Gary is the host of The Free Lawyer podcast and author of Breaking Free: A Guide to Achieving Personal and Professional Freedom as a Lawyer, combining mindset strategies with practical tools for professional and personal fulfillment. Connect with Gary Miles: Website: https://www.garymiles.net/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-freedom/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gary.miles.75641 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/golfinggary52/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqcfaTWo17uxmYS9hfAdiaQ Free Lawyer Assessment: https://www.garymiles.net/the-free-lawyer-assessment Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Josh Hodges discuss: Turning challenges into determination Finding opportunity in small markets Building influence through consistency and service Leading with accountability and learning Key Takeaways: Unconventional paths and high-stakes personal challenges build resilience and drive. Success becomes non-negotiable when urgency is present. Leveraging local connections and analyzing lawyer-per-capita dynamics uncovers untapped opportunities. Diversifying practice areas ensures financial stability and community impact. Treating marketing, content creation, and networking as long-term habits fosters credibility and goodwill. Prioritizing service-first approaches generates multiple professional opportunities over time. Investing in systems, mentorship, and operational structure strengthens sustainable growth. Making timely personnel decisions maintains firm performance and prevents operational strain. "If you wait until you're not busy or things slow down to start networking, you will retire one day, and it never will occur." — Josh Hodges Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Josh Hodges: Josh Hodges brings a unique blend of life and professional experience to his practice. After working full-time factory jobs while completing his undergraduate degree, he graduated Summa Cum Laude from Salmon P. Chase College of Law, serving as Student Bar Association President and National Treasurer of NLLSA. He gained experience at a major Midwestern law firm, handling complex civil litigation and high-stakes personal injury cases. Now based in Hamilton, Ohio, Josh focuses on personal injury law throughout Southwest Ohio as managing partner of Kruger & Hodges Hometown Injury Lawyers. He has personally handled hundreds of cases and leads a team that has successfully managed over 1,000 cases, securing more than $10 million for clients in 2025 alone. Josh is also a sought-after speaker on national legal podcasts and conferences, teaching lawyers to serve their communities and build stronger practices. He actively mentors younger lawyers, emphasizing the value of guidance and community support in building a successful career. Connect with Josh Hodges: Website: https://thehometownlawyers.com/attorneys/josh-hodges/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-hodges-hplaw/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brooke Lively discuss: Recognizing that law firms must master the business of law Prioritizing rocks before everything else Building culture through the right people and real accountability Understanding personal wiring and stage fit Key Takeaways: Law school teaches legal doctrine, not leadership, systems, or execution. Firms that struggle often lack clear vision, aligned people, and real accountability. Frameworks like EOS provide structure for turning intention into consistent results. You cannot pursue every opportunity at once without diluting impact. Identifying quarterly “rocks” forces focus and determines what gets a firm’s time and attention. Without clear priorities, “urgent” noise will crowd out important progress. Success depends on having the right people in the right seats and refusing to tolerate toxic high performers. Clear metrics, documented processes, and regular follow-through create traction. When accountability becomes normal, execution improves across the firm. Leaders thrive in different environments, whether scrappy growth or mature stability. Misalignment between personality and company stage can create friction and unintended chaos. Self-awareness allows both the leader and the firm to operate at their best. "The urgent overtakes the important, and the important never gets done." — Brooke Lively Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Brooke Lively: Brooke Lively is a speaker, author, and profitability expert, and the founder of Cathedral Capital, a team of CFOs and Profitability Strategists dedicated to helping entrepreneurs transform their private practices into profitable, well-managed businesses. With an MBA in Investments and Corporate Finance, Brooke has leveraged her experience growing multiple companies to guide clients—from law firms to marketing agencies—in understanding financial statements, making data-driven decisions, and increasing profitability. She is the author of the 6 Key Numbers series, providing accessible financial guidance for business owners, psychologists, and attorneys. Known for her approachable yet candid style, Brooke also delivers engaging keynote presentations that educate entrepreneurs on financial stability, growth management, and sustainable profitability. Connect with Brooke Lively: Website: https://brookelively.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CathedralCapital LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brookelively/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg1JD7XBFwGjizaa9_566sg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cathedralcapital/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sarah Persich discuss: Investing time instead of just spending it Fixing systems before layering on automation Building a connected tech stack that talks to itself Using AI strategically while managing risk Key Takeaways: High-performing firms focus on building systems that multiply their time rather than endlessly grinding through tasks. Automation, documented workflows, and thoughtful process design “buy back” hours every week. The goal is long-term leverage, not short-term busyness. Most lawyers do not have an automation problem first; they have a clarity problem around roles, processes, and workflows. Undefined responsibilities and undocumented systems cause time leaks long before software can solve anything. Strong foundations make automation effective instead of chaotic. A solid CRM, practice management system, and an integration layer like Zapier allow firms to eliminate repetitive manual work. Open APIs and thoughtful integrations turn scattered tools into a coordinated system. When payments, contracts, intake, and follow-ups connect seamlessly, administrative drag disappears. AI becomes powerful when prompts are specific, voice is clearly defined, and systems are documented with tools like Loom and structured SOPs. Custom prompts or GPT setups help maintain brand consistency and save substantial time on drafting and research. At the same time, firms must weigh confidentiality, compliance, and ethical considerations before deploying AI at scale. "I still stayed in my comfort zone for a little while, and I finally allowed myself to accept being uncomfortable… the big mistake was not going out on my own sooner, and staying in that safety zone and accepting the uncomfortability. And it's been really, really great ever since." — Sarah Persich Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Sarah Persich: Sarah Persich is a law firm automation strategist and operations expert known as “The Automation Lady.” With nearly a decade of experience inside a small law firm, she began her career as a legal assistant. She grew into the integrator role, serving as the operational second-in-command responsible for systems, technology, and process design. Her hands-on experience managing IT, workflows, and firm infrastructure gave her a front-row seat to the inefficiencies that quietly drain time and profitability from growing practices. Over time, she transitioned from internal operations leadership into marketing and automation strategy, helping firms move beyond reactive task management and toward intentional system design. Today, Sarah works with law firms to implement CRMs, streamline practice management systems, build automations, and document scalable processes. She helps attorneys distinguish between high-value strategic work and repetitive administrative tasks, enabling them to reclaim time, improve client experience, and build firms that operate with clarity instead of chaos. Connect with Sarah Persich: Website: https://www.automationlady.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahpersich/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: [email protected] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Evelyn Ackah discuss:Reframing challenges as opportunitiesBuilding security through owning your book of businessDesigning a firm around delegation and technologyProtecting culture by hiring and leading with intention Key Takeaways:Success begins with asking whether challenges are happening to you or for you. A growth-oriented mindset is not optional for entrepreneurs and rainmakers. Those who thrive train themselves to see obstacles as openings, not endings.Relying solely on servicing others’ clients limits mobility and control. Developing your own clients creates long-term security and professional freedom. Rainmaking is a learnable skill built through systems, discipline, and study.High-value leaders focus only on work they alone can do. Everything else can be delegated, automated, or systemized through tools and virtual teams. Intentional tech stacks and strong delegation enable autonomy, even four-day workweeks.Skills can be trained, but values and attitude determine long-term fit. Toxic hires damage momentum and must be addressed quickly. Great leaders invest in coaches, mentors, and team development to sustain growth. "Your staff are your dream builders. They help you create your dream. And so you want to invest in them just as much as they're investing in your success." — Evelyn Ackah Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Evelyn Ackah: Evelyn Ackah is the Founder and CEO of Ackah Business Immigration Law, a cross-border firm representing corporations and professionals in Canadian and U.S. immigration matters. With more than 25 years of experience—including leadership roles in Big Law and at Ernst & Young—she delivers strategic, business-focused immigration solutions tailored to her clients’ goals.Originally from Ghana and raised in Canada, Evelyn brings both personal insight and professional depth to her work in global mobility. She is passionate about legal entrepreneurship, leveraging technology and innovative systems to build a scalable, client-centered practice.Evelyn is also the host of the Ask Evelyn Ackah Immigration Lawyer podcast, where she interviews industry leaders on immigration and related business topics. Connect with Evelyn Ackah: Website: https://www.ackahlaw.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AckahBusinessImmigrationLaw/Twitter: https://twitter.com/Ackahlaw/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ackah-business-immigration-law/ & https://www.linkedin.com/in/evelynackah/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ackahlaw/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw7M2pQKwsRteq-nThuaELQ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ted DeBettencourt discuss:Making prospects feel heard before they hireFixing intake as the real growth leverOptimizing website conversion channelsAdopting a builder’s mindset in business development Key Takeaways:Emotional needs matter as much as legal expertise when someone is choosing a lawyer. If prospects do not feel listened to or cared for, they continue shopping. Human connection is often the deciding factor in a crowded legal marketplace.Many firms invest heavily in marketing but lose revenue at the intake stage. Speed of response determines success, as delays of even 24 hours can cost the case. Clear criteria for qualified leads protect attorney time and improve conversion rates.Law firm websites must make contact effortless through visible phone numbers, live chat, text, and forms. Human-powered chat and SMS are increasingly driving higher engagement and signed cases. Firms that reduce friction in communication dramatically improve conversion outcomes.Opportunities rarely arrive on their own, even with strong credentials. Growth begins when professionals stop waiting and start creating value. Taking initiative and solving real problems can open entirely new career paths. "Running a law firm 101: don’t answer your own phone, because you’re never getting any work done." — Ted DeBettencourt Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Ted DeBettencourt: Ted DeBettencourt is the founder and CEO of Juvo Leads, a human-powered intake and chat service helping law firms convert more website visitors into signed clients. With a JD/MBA background, Ted shifted from pursuing traditional legal roles to building solutions that improve law firm marketing and intake performance. He focuses on speed, connection, and ensuring prospects feel heard — proving that human engagement remains a powerful differentiator in a digital world. Connect with Ted DeBettencourt: Website: https://juvoleads.com/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Colleen Breems discuss:Letting a niche form over timeEarning trust through depth and preparationUsing competence as the foundation of marketingPositioning intentionally with the right relationships Key Takeaways:Niching down is a gradual process shaped by consistency, passion, and earned trust. Being focused does not require rejecting all other work, only clarifying what you are known for. A clear niche strengthens credibility and often opens doors to adjacent opportunities.Strong niches are built by mastering statutes, procedures, and expectations within a specific role. Every case should be treated as reputation-defining, regardless of size or visibility. Reliability, preparedness, and professionalism compound into long-term trust.Visibility is effective only when it reflects genuine skill and consistent performance. Writing, speaking, and sharing expertise help decision makers remember you for a specific strength. Marketing should amplify substance, not replace it.Focused networking outperforms broad, unfocused relationship building. Clear positioning makes it easier for others to understand, remember, and refer to you. Niching is strongest when aligned with real demand and access to decision makers. "Don’t wait until you’re ready… Letting fear or doubt stop you from going after a niche is really the biggest roadblock." — Colleen Breems Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Colleen Breems: Colleen M. Breems is a partner practicing exclusively in matrimonial and family law. She represents clients in divorce, parentage, post-decree matters, prenuptial and postnuptial agreements, and related family law issues, with a focus on practical, client-centered solutions.In addition to representing adults, Colleen is frequently appointed by Cook County judges to serve as a Child’s Representative or Guardian ad Litem, advocating for the best interests of children in family law cases. She is also a trained mediator and parent coordinator.Colleen is deeply committed to public service, dedicating significant time to pro bono work through Chicago Volunteer Legal Services and serving as Co-Vice President of the Advocacy Council for the Junior League of Chicago. Connect with Colleen Breems: Website: https://beermannlaw.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleen-breems-a8a4631b/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tom Conner discuss:Treating note-taking as professional insuranceUsing discomfort to set daily prioritiesChoosing relationships as the foundation of business developmentLetting character determine long-term success Key Takeaways:Relying on memory is a gamble, especially when ideas, tasks, and details arrive constantly. Writing everything down ensures nothing important slips through the cracks. The tool matters less than the habit of capturing thoughts before they disappear.Starting with the task you least want to do lowers anxiety for the rest of the day. Avoidance only prolongs stress, whether with paperwork or difficult phone calls. Momentum is built by confronting discomfort early, not managing it away.Referrals grow out of trust earned through service, generosity, and long-term presence. Bar involvement and community leadership create credibility that no marketing tactic can replace. Strong reputations are built quietly and often pay dividends years later.Integrity functions as a filter for clients, colleagues, and career decisions. Fairness and honesty build trust even with opponents and judges. The same clarity guides how to retire, whom to trust, and how to leave a legacy. "Your reputation is everything, and it's hard to build, and it's easy to destroy." — Tom Conner Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Tom Conner: Tom Conner is a fourth-generation Texan and veteran trial lawyer whose life and career span more than four decades of courtroom practice. Raised in a small West Texas farming community, he brought grit and resilience from his early years into a distinguished legal career in Houston, where he handled high-stakes civil and family law cases and earned a reputation for integrity and advocacy. His memoir, From Cotton Fields to Courtrooms, blends personal history with reflections on major trials, life lessons, and the discipline that shaped his path from rural beginnings to respected attorney and storyteller. Connect with Tom Conner: Website: https://tomconnerbooks.com/ , https://www.lawcl.com/lawyers/thomas-r-conner/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jennifer Gillman discuss:Building rainmaking as a sustainable, early-career practiceShifting mindset to overcome fear and unlock visibilityUsing small, consistent actions to compound business developmentGaining autonomy by moving from service partner to rainmaker Key Takeaways:Becoming a happy rainmaker is not a late-career scramble but a long game that should begin as early as law school or the first years of practice. By consistently maintaining relationships with classmates and peers, lawyers build familiarity and trust over time. This approach replaces transactional job-seeking with organic, referral-based growth.A core barrier to business development is the fear of judgment, captured by the reminder that what other people think of you is none of your business. This mindset shift frees lawyers to show up on LinkedIn, speak publicly, and introduce themselves without self-consciousness. Confidence grows through action rather than perfection.Rainmaking does not require massive time blocks but thrives on small, intentional habits repeated consistently. Even 15 to 20 minutes a week spent nurturing relationships or learning LinkedIn and AI tools can create long-term leverage. Like compound interest, steady effort builds momentum and results.Rainmakers gain control over clients, schedules, and priorities, while service partners remain dependent on others for work and timing. Building a book of business early reframes BD as an investment in future autonomy rather than an added burden. This shift creates greater flexibility and career control. "If you can develop one dollar of business, you can develop a million dollars or ten million." — Jennifer Gillman Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jennifer Gillman: Jennifer Gillman is President and Founder of Gillman Strategic Group, a legal recruiting firm that helps law firm partners find the right fit so they can thrive and enjoy practicing law. A former lawyer herself, Jennifer spent 12 years in practice before becoming a recruiter, and she is known for her candidate-focused, confidential, and thoughtful approach to career matchmaking. She earned her J.D. from New York University School of Law and her undergraduate degree from Brandeis University. Connect with Jennifer Gillman: Website: https://gillmanstrategicgroup.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-gillman-law-firm-matchmaker/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Noel Bagwell discuss:Prioritize profit over revenueCultivating virtue and adaptability in leadershipRethinking traditional metricsBuilding resilience through self-awareness Key Takeaways:Sustainable law firms focus on true profitability, not just top-line revenue, ensuring resources for reinvestment and owner compensation.Effective leaders build moral character, listen deeply, transform failure into feedback, and create psychologically safe environments while holding teams accountable.Billable hours are outdated; value-based, flat-fee, or subscription models paired with results-oriented KPIs align incentives with client outcomes and firm sustainability.Perseverance, reflection, and deliberate self-leadership are essential for navigating personal and professional challenges and for leading others effectively. "Profit is what happens when you get everything else right." — Noel Bagwell Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Noel Bagwell: Noel Bagwell is the founder of Counsel & Clarity™, where he helps leaders and organizations build resilient leadership, profitable legal relationships, and effective legal operations. His work focuses on supporting startups, growth-stage companies, and executives navigating complexity, change, and high-stakes decision-making.Through Leadership Resilience Coaching, Noel works with leaders recovering from personal or professional setbacks, helping them rebuild capacity, strengthen self-leadership, and lead with clarity under pressure. His coaching emphasizes resilience, reflection, and sustainable performance rather than short-term fixes.Noel also provides Legal Coaching and Services, guiding clients through complex legal challenges with a practical, business-aligned approach. He helps organizations better understand the legal landscape, make informed decisions, and create legal strategies that support long-term goals rather than reactive problem-solving.In his Legal Operations Coaching, Noel partners with legal teams to optimize processes, streamline workflows, and improve how legal functions deliver value. By aligning operations with business priorities, he enables legal departments to become more efficient, effective, and strategically integrated. Connect with Noel Bagwell: Website: https://counselandclarity.com/home-pageLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nbagwell3/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Robert Armstrong, and Sandy Fisch discuss:Legal expertise without systems limits growthFocus outperforms expansion without infrastructureValue-based models outperform time-based billing in an AI-driven futureFuture-proof firms are systemized, collaborative, and diversified Key Takeaways:Most firms are built by technicians who understand legal work but not business operations. Sustainable firms require deliberate work on systems, strategy, and management.Deep specialization strengthens results, clarity, and scale. Expanding practice areas too early dilutes effectiveness and increases operational drag.Hourly billing weakens as automation accelerates legal work. Flat-fee pricing combined with strong human relationships aligns better with efficiency and client outcomes.Recurring revenue, acquisition-ready structures, and trusted peer communities reduce dependence on individuals. Long-term resilience comes from systems, relationships, and adaptive business models. "There's a difference between working on the business and working in the business." — Sandy Fisch Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Robert Armstrong: Robert Armstrong is President of the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys and co-founder of Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm. A U.S. Navy veteran and summa cum laude graduate of UC San Diego, he earned his Juris Doctor from the University of San Diego in 1976.A recognized thought leader in estate planning, Robert has authored several books, including The E-Myth Attorney, and has been quoted in national publications such as the Wall Street Journal. He frequently appears on television as an estate planning expert.Robert lives in Knoxville, Tennessee, with his wife, Jennifer, and enjoys reading, daily workouts, and time outdoors with his family. About Sandy Fisch: Sanford Fisch is a principal at Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm recognized nationwide for excellence. He co-founded the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys to help attorneys and law firms improve their skills and practices.Known for expertise and enthusiasm, Sanford seeks more effective ways to serve clients, support fellow attorneys, and advance the practice of estate planning law across the United States. Connect with Robert Armstrong & Sandy Fisch: Website: https://www.aftattorneys.com/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Deirdre Nero discuss:Action can precede clarityGrowth requires delegation, not enduranceAuthenticity strengthens leadership and trustExpertise must be valued to be sustainable Key Takeaways:Starting a firm without certainty can still create momentum and direction. Waiting for perfect readiness delays growth more than risk does.Handling every task personally creates a hard ceiling on scale and sustainability. Hiring support is the necessary step to move beyond survival mode.Hiding core aspects of identity fractures credibility and connection. Openness creates deeper trust, healing, and stronger professional relationships.Giving away high-level knowledge undermines both business viability and professional worth. Confident pricing is essential for long-term independence and freedom. "I think honestly that was probably the biggest crime I committed in my firm… trying to do it all myself." — Deirdre Nero Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Deirdre Nero: Deirdre D. Nero is the founder of NERO Immigration Law, which she established in 2009 after practicing for several years at large domestic and international law firms. She previously led the immigration practice of a major international firm’s Coral Gables office and has deep experience advising individuals and small to mid-sized companies.Her practice focuses on business and family immigration, including employment-based immigrant and nonimmigrant visas, PERM labor certifications, and naturalization. Deirdre represents clients nationwide and around the world, working closely with them to execute immigration strategies before U.S. immigration agencies.Fluent in Spanish and certified at the highest level by the Spanish government, Deirdre is a passionate advocate for immigration reform. She frequently lectures and writes on immigration topics and has lived, studied, and worked in Spain, where she completed legal internships and comparative law research. Connect with Deirdre Nero: Website: https://neroimmigration.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdrenero/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/neroimmigration Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Noel Andrews discuss:Prioritizing others to drive long-term successDelegation as a lever for higher-value workHiring and managing support effectivelyShifting from doing to thinking as a leader Key Takeaways:Sustainable business growth comes from helping team members, clients, and referral partners achieve their goals first. Celebrate client milestones, develop your team, and make introductions without expecting immediate returns. Focusing outward builds trust, loyalty, and lasting relationships that compound over time.Lawyers often get stuck handling admin, marketing, and operations alongside legal tasks. Listing tasks to delegate frees you to focus on work only you can do and grow the firm strategically. Delegation transforms busywork into leverage and career impact.Start with clarity: define tasks first, then map them to a role, location, and level of support. Remote talent in regions like Eastern Europe or South Africa can provide high-quality work at a lower cost. Clear KPIs, meaningful projects, and trust are more effective than micromanaging hours.Resist the urge to control every detail; hire capable assistants to own outcomes. Delegating at a high level frees time for strategic thinking and future planning. Leaders must balance action with observation to maximize impact and firm growth. "Every single time I’ve ever done the next stage for me, or the next step in really investing in supporting my team, particularly in their personal lives, the results are just huge." — Noel Andrews"Profit is what happens when you get everything else right." — Yvon Chouinard, Founder of Patagonia Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Noel Andrews: Noel Andrews is the CEO of JobRack, a global recruitment company that helps entrepreneurs and business owners hire high-quality remote talent, primarily from Eastern Europe and South Africa. With a background in online business and operations, Noel specializes in building systems that allow founders to delegate effectively, scale sustainably, and reclaim time for higher-level thinking.Through JobRack, he has helped hundreds of companies move beyond founder overload by hiring experienced, proactive team members who can truly own outcomes. Noel is known for his practical, clarity-first approach to hiring, leadership, and remote team management, emphasizing trust, accountability, and long-term leverage over micromanagement. Connect with Noel Andrews: Website: https://jobrack.eu/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noelandrews/Ashley Robinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyrobinsongcm/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jay Harrington discuss:Reframing business development as relationship-buildingThe power of owning a book of businessClarifying motivation to overcome resistance to business developmentExecuting business development with focus, structure, and preparation Key Takeaways:Business development is not selling or persuasion but consistent, helpful relationship-building over time. The myth of “natural rainmakers” keeps lawyers from starting when business development is actually a learnable skill. Approaching business development like legal training makes it practical, repeatable, and less intimidating.After several years of practice, firms expect lawyers to have portable client relationships. A book of business creates leverage, autonomy, and flexibility across firms or career paths. Without one, even strong lawyers may find their options limited.Many lawyers avoid business development due to fear, overwhelm, or discomfort with selling. Sustainable effort starts by defining a clear personal “why,” such as freedom or stability. Because client work always takes priority, business development only happens when time is protected intentionally.Consistent actions like scheduled outreach, focused contact lists, and light thought leadership compound. Effective networking prioritizes generosity, warm introductions, and strategic communities. Securing a meeting is only the start; preparation and process determine whether opportunities close. "Business Development is not some secret. It truly is just relationship building, being consistent, being helpful to people." — Jay Harrington Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jay Harrington: Before joining Latitude, Jay spent more than 25 years in the legal industry as a practicing attorney and entrepreneur. He began his career in corporate restructuring with Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP in Chicago and later practiced at Foley & Lardner LLP in Detroit. In 2009, he founded his own boutique law firm in Detroit, where he represented companies and executives in complex business disputes and restructuring matters.For the past decade, Jay has advised lawyers and law firms on business development, marketing, and strategy through his own consulting firm. He is a frequent keynote speaker and workshop leader at law firm retreats, bar association events, and professional conferences, focusing on topics such as productivity, leadership, and practice growth.Jay is also the author of three books for lawyers—The Productivity Pivot, The Essential Associate, and One of a Kind—each focused on helping attorneys build rewarding, sustainable, and successful practices.He earned his J.D. from the University of Michigan Law School and his B.A. from Bowling Green State University, where he played Division I baseball and competed in the 1998 College World Series Regionals.Outside of work, Jay is a U.S. Soccer–licensed coach and manages his twin daughters’ competitive North Storm club team. He and his wife, Heather, live in Michigan with their three daughters. He enjoys spending time outdoors—hiking, mountain biking, and paddle boarding—and experience has taught him that the best ideas often come while on the trail or on the water. Connect with Jay Harrington: Website: https://latitudelegal.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayharrington/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mathew Kerbis discuss:AI’s impact on billable workRecognizing the limits of hourly and flat feesUsing subscriptions to create stability and scalePositioning lawyers for long-term resilience Key Takeaways:AI is set to automate most billable legal tasks, collapsing the hours firms rely on for revenue. Continuing to bill time while effort shrinks creates ethical and financial strain. The profession must rethink pricing before the model breaks entirely.Hourly billing punishes efficiency and leaves clients unable to budget. Flat fees help, but often trigger resistance when AI makes work appear “too easy.” Both models strain under faster, AI-driven workflows.Subscription pricing offers predictable costs for clients and recurring value for firms. Changing needs are handled through tier shifts instead of constant renegotiation. This approach opens access to the vast unmet legal market.Solo and small firms can thrive by pairing subscriptions with purpose-built AI tools. Clear value mapping enables strong good-better-best service tiers. Sustainable growth requires leverage, focus, and letting go of doing everything alone. "The flat fee or fixed fee model… hasn’t supplanted the billable hour… because of exactly this problem I call the under‑scoping and over‑scoping problem. You don't know if you're going to overscope or underscope the work when it's on a fixed‑fee model." — Mathew Kerbis Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Mathew Kerbis: Mathew Kerbis is the founder of Subscription Attorney LLC and co-founder of practi.ai, where he helps lawyers move beyond the billable hour and build sustainable, client-friendly practices. A longtime advocate for subscription-based legal services, Mathew pioneered one of the earliest low-cost legal subscription models and has since expanded into fractional general counsel work for small businesses. He also hosts the Law Subscribed podcast, where he explores alternative fee models, legal innovation, and the future of law in an AI-driven world. Connect with Mathew Kerbis: Website: https://www.practi.ai/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerbisverse/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mandy McCormack discuss:Recognizing business development as a critical legal skillAligning coaching with motivation and executionBuilding authentic personal brandingCreating lasting impact through structured support Key Takeaways:Marketing, planning, and relationship-building are essential for long-term career success, not optional extras. Structured coaching transforms these skills into sustainable, high-ROI practices.Coaching works best when goals, gaps, and willingness to act are clear. Alignment between the lawyer’s needs and the coach’s methods drives meaningful results.Sharing personal stories alongside professional expertise strengthens trust, deepens relationships, and attracts clients who resonate with values, not just credentials.Combining training, personalized coaching, and on-demand guidance enables lawyers to internalize skills, stay focused, and achieve long-term growth without dependency on the coach. "I don’t think anybody wants to follow someone who talks the talk but isn’t walking the walk. I have to be doing those things at an incredibly high level to be able to coach my clients on it." — Steve Fretzin Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Mandy McCormack: Mandy McCormack, Esq., is the founder of McCormack Law LLC, where she specializes in estate planning, tax law, and related advisory services. She helps clients navigate complex financial and legal decisions with clarity and confidence, creating tailored plans that protect assets, minimize tax liability, and provide peace of mind. Mandy is dedicated to combining technical expertise with a personal, approachable style, ensuring that every client understands their options and feels supported in the planning process. She is committed to helping individuals, families, and business owners prepare for the future while aligning legal strategies with their goals and values. Connect with Mandy McCormack: Website: https://mccormacklawllc.com/Yelp: https://www.yelp.com/biz/mccormack-law-brookfield-2LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandamccormacklaw/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61568230072605 Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Chris Earley discuss:Treating consistency as the real competitive edgeBuilding trust through authenticity over achievementMatching platforms to where your audience already livesPlaying the long game of value before promotion Key Takeaways:Showing up every day with content is not a tactic but the game itself. One post a day over time compounds into trust, visibility, and separation. Most lawyers will not endure the discipline, which is precisely why it works.Audiences respond more to struggle, growth, and honesty than polished wins. Sharing mistakes, personal history, and lessons humanizes the professional brand. Credibility grows faster when vulnerability comes before accomplishment.Effective content starts by knowing who you serve and where they spend their attention. B2B audiences tend to gather on LinkedIn, while B2C clients live elsewhere. Posting everywhere is fine, but focus belongs where attention already flows.Education, insight, and generosity must outweigh direct selling over time. Promotion works only after value has been delivered consistently and visibly. Your brand strengthens when service leads and asks follow. “I think the practitioner should be posting, if you really want to get serious, once a day on LinkedIn… One post. Can you do that for a year and stick with that? I’ve done that for like four or five years, and the flywheel just expands." — Chris Earley Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Chris Earley: Christopher Earley is a Boston-based personal injury attorney and founder of Earley Law Group Injury Lawyers, where he has devoted nearly two decades to advocating for injury victims and standing up to powerful insurance companies. He holds a J.D. from New England Law (2004) and is admitted to practice in Massachusetts. Chris is also an accomplished author of multiple consumer guides, a legal columnist for the American Bar Association and Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly, and a frequent speaker on law firm business topics. His work has earned recognition, including multiple Massachusetts Super Lawyer honors. Beyond law, he serves his community through youth sports coaching and local partnerships, all while emphasizing clear communication, client education, and relentless advocacy. Connect with Chris Earley: Website: https://www.chrisearley.com/Justia Lawyers: https://lawyers.justia.com/lawyer/christopher-earley-1335943YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisEarleyLawTwitter: https://twitter.com/chrisearleylawFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/Law-Offices-of-Christopher-Earley-104980886333/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/earleylawgroupinjurylawyers/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Matthew Fornaro discuss:Making solo practice more accessible than everUsing AI as a force multiplier for small firmsPracticing ethical and intentional AI adoptionRethinking legal business models and skill sets Key Takeaways:Starting a firm no longer requires a large office, full staff, or major upfront investment. A focused LinkedIn presence paired with a simple, low-cost website can be sufficient early on.Matthew relies on AI for email triage, document review, and marketing support across his practice. These tools increasingly replace costly vendors while delivering speed, consistency, and scale.Responsible lawyers review and verify AI outputs instead of submitting them unchecked. Those who ignore AI entirely or misuse it are falling behind or facing real professional consequences.AI-driven efficiency puts pressure on traditional billable-hour structures in Big Law and beyond. Matthew emphasizes that business education is as critical as legal skills for long-term success. "In dealing with some of the attorneys I deal with who don't use AI or whatever, they're getting consistently outworked and beat by people who do use AI, particularly people who use AI correctly and responsibly." — Matthew Fornaro Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Matthew Fornaro: Matthew Fornaro is a business law attorney serving South Florida since 2003. He began his career at two AmLaw 200 firms, focusing on civil litigation, before founding his own practice.His work includes complex commercial litigation, contract disputes, construction law, intellectual property, and business formation and documentation. A member of the Florida and District of Columbia Bars, Matthew also mentors new attorneys and entrepreneurs through the Kaufman Foundation’s FastTrac NewVenture Program and Florida State University’s Jim Moran Institute.As a small business owner himself, he is proud to support and represent businesses throughout his community. Connect with Matthew Fornaro: Website: https://fornarolegal.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fornarolegal/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewfornaro/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZn4sEROz6hErV5Fb5vvOtQInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/fornaro_legal/X: https://twitter.com/FornaroLegalAdditional Resources: Jeremy Baker - https://operationpalmtree.com/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.