Scientifically Speaking, What Mistakes Are Men Making in Bed? with Aella

I have another fun chat with sex researcher and OnlyFans creator Ayla about the latest in her sex studies, including female sexual subtypes and common mistakes men make in bed. We also discuss the future of AI-generated personalized porn, using algorithms to create custom "wife porn", arbitrage opportunities in sexual dynamics, and more!

[00:00:00] Hello, Ayla. It is wonderful to have you here today. Sadly, Simone is not with us today because she is out petition collecting to run for office and she may just not be appearing in episodes for a while now, which is a little frustrating for me.

But oh, by the way, one of the really fun episodes I'm going to do while she's not with us because I've been meaning to do this forever. As an episode, but I haven't gotten to it is I want to do a review. If you ever want to join me on this, this could be fun to do of all of the AI porn websites.

Have you looked into any of these? Not recently. I did like a, like a year or two ago, but that's like a decade in AI timelines. Oh yeah. So, okay. Sorry. Before we get further on the intro, I just got to tell you about these cause they're really interesting. So they typically right now seem to fall into like one of three categories.

One is a category of AI sites that like nudes, photos of women, like, So anyone who you're friends with, you can submit your photos to them. I was going to try it with photos of my wife. Like one morning I actually got interesting and I started submitting photos, my wife to see what [00:01:00] she would look like.

So I'm going to keep it wholesome if I do. Another one, what they do is you choose specific profiles of women. But they're like a, a, like. A, a cat girl meets you at a stream and like this fantasy world or like you have an elf girl as like a slave or whatever, you know, right, like, and you can chat with these individuals and then you can ask for photos of these individuals in specific context.

Which is really interesting. And then the final category is creating women. So you give a set of parameters that you would like a woman to be, and then the AI system would create a woman that fits that set of parameters, and you can now ask for photos of this woman and chat with her. Like, I want to get your thoughts on this, because I think you'd have interesting

Would you like to know more?

You can chat with her now.

Like do they, when is integrated with the chatting? Yeah. So it's integrated with the chatting. So they'll integrate the personality and, and, and background and [00:02:00] jobs you give her with the chat feature. Damn. And then you also get porn of her. Does she like sexy talk? Yeah, but you have to pay for the individual picks.

So you pay for credits. That makes sense. And then the credits get porn of her. What I was gonna do, if I did an episode on this and I was gonna create like artificial Simone's. And try to like, ask them for porn of them. And I, I actually got bored and tried this one morning. Cause I was like, I want to see pictures of my wife, but like, unfortunately the pictures that they gave me did not look enough like her and I got sad and left.

Yeah. I don't think we're quite there yet, but I think we'll be there soon. Once we're there, it's going to be incredible. You can just like have custom wife porn all the time. Right. And when she's not up in the morning yet, I can go online because that's what I'm, what I was doing this. I was like, Oh, I want to talk with my wife, but she's not up yet.

Can I create like a AI simulacrum for her to talk to? No. Well, what are different ways you think AI will be used in the, in the sex industry? [00:03:00] Other than, I don't know. I mean, I recently, I've been seeing photos of me around the internet with different faces. On me, which is upsetting and they're probably just using like face up for this right now, but it's probably going to become an AI thing pretty shortly where it's just like use alums body as a template.

And I'm a little offended by it. But this is more short term I guess. Hold on, I want to ask you about offense questions. So there was something that Simone said she'd find offensive, but I was like, it's kind of flattering in a way. So there was a guy in Japan or Korea or something who his wife ended up divorcing him because he would hire prostitutes that looked like her when she was younger.

And I was like, that's kind of flattering. What are your thoughts on that? Would you find that offensive? I mean, I'd probably find it painful. Like it's painful to not I guess it highlights that you're older now, right? Yeah. It's painful to like be losing out on sexual access because your physicality is not sufficiently attractive.

That's like a quite painful thing. Hmm. Well, okay. So then you, you having other women with [00:04:00] their face on your body, what specifically is triggering a negative emotional reaction around this? I don't know. It's, I don't, normally. Normally, like the thing that you're worried about is like somebody taking your face and putting it on a nude so people can imagine you naked, but it's like your identity, but this is somehow the reverse.

It's like, it's my body, but like I'm erased out of it in some way. And that feels like shockingly dehumanizing in a way I didn't expect. I just kind of didn't expect people to do this at all. Like what the hell is the motivation? Or I don't know. Cause like The motivation is that they want these other people naked, right?

They want sexual access to someone who's not you. Sure. Yeah, well, I'm not even sure it was a real face. It wasn't even like a person. It was just like a generic face that wasn't mine. And so they could like, do it and like sort of steal it without it getting credit to me or something. Oh, and then they would upload them.

Oh, that's Oh, that's like people reporting like, Hey, is this you? Like, this is your body. It's just like a generic. It wasn't a person. It was just [00:05:00] And I'm like, that is, that was me. Goddammit. You're like erasing my identity from a thing. It's almost like there's something that plagiarizes your work somehow.

Yeah. Well, no, it is. Well, so, so I didn't actually finish the intro here because I got so sidetracked by interesting talk about pornography. So, Ayla is, you know, I was actually thinking today and I was trying to think, is there another, because I've written a book on sexuality, a best selling book on sexuality, The Pregnancy Guide to Sexuality.

Check it out. It sells for like 99 cents. It's really good. I have a couple copies. Yeah, so, Ayla, as somebody who like is deeply interested in this field, I was thinking you are probably the best sexual researcher in human history. And then I was thinking, does Kinsey beat you? And I was like, not really.

Kinsey is more like the Freud of human sexual research. He is important because he had the idea to do it, but his research was Terrible. So you're probably the single best researcher on a huge chunk of humanity, and you have such low [00:06:00] self esteem. I always seen your, your, your things. You're like, Oh, I can't really be that great.

Or like, I remember one recently was like, are people really that bad at marketing themselves? And I'm like, Haley, you don't understand. top fraction of a fraction of a percent of intelligence and agency in the human population. People really are that bad. Which is fun to talk to you about sexuality, because most people don't talk about this subject.

And what I had planned in this episode talking about was people need to check out this new substack she's done. It is data driven advice on how to be good in bed. And it is data driven not just from one of maybe the most sexually experienced people in human history but also one of the most Deep sexual researchers in human history, like you are not going to get this is not like woo s**t Like this is not like you're going to like I'm gonna you got a because sexual advice stuff Like if you go to like sexuality coaches, it's all woo like like from the stuff I've seen It's all like half of it is healing crystals and half [00:07:00] of it is sex stuff.

She is like hard data Which is really cool but so I'd love to get to this data, but I'm actually having fun on this topic of the future of like online sex stuff. So do you have other thoughts on where things are going with this stuff? I'm even thinking like if I was going to blue sky, I can give you one of my thoughts on how I might use AI.

I might take Like audio, so like somebody could take, like, suppose somebody wanted to engage with someone like my wife sexually, right? Like was in an online environment they could download like the hours and hours because we do an episode every day of our podcast of podcast episodes create a synthesized personality by separating out the woman's voice, put that into an AI system and have that respond to them.

Now I'm thinking of this selfishly because I was actually like, okay, well, if I wanted to engage with a Good emulation of my wife, that's what I should do because then I could talk to her without distracting her from the important work she's [00:08:00] doing. But you could also then do this with like pictures of women or video feeds of women to create a fully, like really authentically synthesized woman.

What, what are your thoughts? Well, and then what this is interesting and from an evolutionary perspective is it gives all men access to the highest quality woman possible from a masturbatory standpoint. Yeah, this is, I mean, like, it's more than masturbation, it's direct, like, this is part of why OnlyFans is so successful is because it gives you direct personal access to the woman as opposed to porn.

Because people are always like, why am I paying for porn when I could just get porn free? And like, turns out there's a huge market for personalized s**t. So yeah, I think there's like probably, like, it's like a more personalized masturbation, which sounds great. From my end, I'm interested in it because, like, as an OnlyFans girl.

I would love to outsource my content. I would love to just like press the button and have like the A list simulation, you know, like talk and live stream and do videos [00:09:00] for my guys. That sounds wonderful. Because like, I, it's nice. I enjoy, I do genuinely enjoy like being slutty and promiscuous on the internet.

But like, honestly, I've taken so many naked photos of myself. I kind of want to shoot myself. Every time I take a nude. Now, it's just too much and it would be nice. I just want it to happen. People should know you created a contest around this like a year ago, like early, early AI, you are cutting edge. So you handled this huge data bank of images and you created a contest for somebody to create a really good ala generator.

Can you talk about this? Yeah. We, we'd want to see if we could like. Use AI basically, can we make this happen? If it turns out, no, none of the people competing were really quite good enough. Because I think in order to work, it has to be relatively photorealistic. Because people just, it's not that exciting to view something that you can tell is AI.

I think you literally did it the first moment somebody had the idea of doing something like this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, [00:10:00] like I've been in the AI world, the AI safety world for long, well before ChachiBT or AI started picking up in the last few years. So this has been like in the stream, like pretty advanced on it, but it's just not ready.

No one would know this about you as an outsider. Just, you know, like Ayla is really, really high status within the AI safety world in the EA sphere, like among the type of people who are nerds about like Scott Alexander stuff, you're going to get maybe a third of them who are nerds about AILA stuff.

And, and you go to a lot of the conferences and stuff like that because I think like your number one main squeeze is also in that space. Yeah. Yeah. One of my partners is president of Mary. So that helps. Yeah. We were both in the same. Circles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, which is interesting that you're in all these, these intellectual circles and some people who follow you as an outsider might not know that, that you're pretty high status within these intellectual circles.

Um, well, so I was thinking if you could [00:11:00] automate yourself what could you offer that no one else is offering right now? I guess through a really high volume of images. Like, I'm wondering if there's arbitrage opportunities for you as a businesswoman here. So you have an unusually high number of images of yourself nude compared to other women.

You could process these images, create a better ALA generator than other people. But you need to, it seems like a lot of the stuff is the AI stuff is good personality attachments. How would you handle that? Do you have a big feed of like a video feed or, or video backlogs or something like that you could use to try to create that, or would you try to simulate it?

Like, like for personality wise, just feeler. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have tons of footage of interviews on podcasts and there's a bunch of like porn stuff. I, I would love to have more of me. to talk to people because I think [00:12:00] I'm like, relatively, I have some, some stuff to offer and I just don't have the time or inclination.

I'm like a pretty solo person. I don't like hanging out with other people that much. I'm very private in the sense of the way I spend my time. And so it would be nice to like have somebody. Like an Ayla clone go out and do all that for me. I would love that. I love that idea too. That is, that is fun.

Well, I mean, so then I know you've been thinking about maybe doing a podcast or something like that. Has that moved forwards? Are you more focused right now on the the, the sex guide blog? Well, I'm probably gonna do a good at sex podcast. So the plan is we bring a bunch of women together and talk about what makes sex good.

And we have some variations on this. I don't want to give away too many details, but I'm pretty excited. I have an idea. Do you want me, I mean, are you connected with like, like documentary type teams and stuff like that? Like, have you thought about pitching this to like Netflix and stuff? Do you, I mean, do you have connections there?

Cause I have a few. Well, the thing is, I'm not sure that Netflix would result in the level of revenue that I'm interested in. [00:13:00] Ah, oh yeah. Because you want to gate content access. Good idea. Okay. Yeah. Like right now it's, this is turning into my full time job, basically. It's like paying me more than OnlyFans does.

So, well, education, your brain is now paying you more than I know. It was fulfilling. I love it. I mean, again, I don't, not degrading, like I'm like happy doing sex work and stuff, but like it's, I'm a little burned out and I would love to just do something that engages my brain and getting paid for it. So exciting.

It's also less freaky because there's always this background insecurity that, like, my looks are going to run out and then I can't continue earning money through sex work. And, but this is like, oh, I could keep doing this for quite some time, even after I start looking really ugly. So it's like, It's not insecurity.

Realistically, that's going to happen. I mean, we, we in our society aren't supposed to tell women that, but, like, objectively The, the, that's going to happen. And I think that being very shrewd in how you are backstopping your career. [00:14:00] Which is also really interesting. I think that some people don't think about was, was people like you, as they think that the, you know, like you don't recognize this and you aren't like doing career planning stuff and you absolutely are.

I know it's like a weird sort of like outside, it's not a quite typical mind fallacy that people do, but I get this a lot when, when I talk about like running an orgy, people are like, Oh, she's going to f**k so many people watch out for the STD spread. And I'm like, do you, if you, do you not think about the liches, like if you think about if you were going to run an orgy.

What would you do? You would probably require SCI. It's like a very basic thing that people like aren't they just sort of jump to the conclusion of what the final salacious result will be and not be like, wait, if you logically try to plan something like this, you would probably install fail safes or, or like good safety measures.

And so it's very similar with like sex work. People are like, ah, she's going to get old and then be upset when nobody loves her. I'm like, did you not? Did you not think that maybe I have thought about this? You're right. Oh my God. I [00:15:00] am going to age.

It's ridiculous. I don't understand. It reminds me of the end of Clueless when the lady who owns a cigarette company and smokes cigarettes every day and the girl goes, you know those things cause cancer? And she's like, Oh my God, no one ever told me. Like, yeah, it's the same. It's the same with us. I think a lot of people just don't put a lot of thought into the people that they're attacking was in online environments.

Like, we'll get these attacks, like Oh, they want to replace the world with people who look like them and like, like their genetic stock. And like, I'm like, that's not something we've ever said. And they're like, but their genetic stock is flawed because they have glasses. And it's like, we don't want to replace people with people are like, Oh, they must be racist.

And I'm like, we are like virulently not racist. And they're like, Oh, I don't know about that. You want people to have more kids, but you're not racist. I don't see how those two things could correlate. And it's like, What ? Yeah, it's, it's, I, I [00:16:00] love it. I love it. It's a shame. It's like something I had to update to that people are going to attack versions of you and not you.

Like when I was going into being public, I was like, oh, okay, I'm ready for people to criticize who I am, but it turns out they don't. They just make up like a straw person about you and then criticize that, and you're like, wait, wait though. That's, it's a lot harder to handle, I think. Yeah, well, no, it is, and can you hear me okay, by the way?

I got like a little thing over here. Yeah, somebody's mowing outside. Can you still hear me okay? No, I don't hear it at all. I made a mistake and I got a little alert on my, okay. Anyway, no, so it's really interesting. I don't know how much press you get. Like we get a decent amount of press. Yeah. Interesting things is I begin to get a feel of the different types of attack articles.

Where one type of attack article and they are not correlated with the prestige of the newspaper. One type of attack article we get pretty frequently is it's clear that somebody read the title of another attack article. But didn't pay for the article. [00:17:00] The guardian does this really frequently where they will write an attack article, and it's clearly based on the title of another article, but not having paid for the article.

That's.

Is it like super glaring? Like they like cite facts that are from like before the paywall or something? Yeah, yeah. So they'll cite facts from before the paywall and then they'll say other things that are like something that someone would intuit. Like they'll say stuff like we do like explicitly racist things, which like, it's very obvious even if you had read the article that we spoke against that, but like they hadn't read the article.

They're just like, oh, they're pronatalists. They must be racist or, or where this was really obvious to us is one of the articles on us insinuated that we were billionaires. And then a bunch, they said billionaires like Elon Musk, but it had a picture of us want people to have more kids. And so then when other people wrote articles on that, they would say we are billionaires.

And so there's a huge [00:18:00] genre of article, Malcolm and Simone are billionaires out there right now. I mean, it's not like an awful reputation to have, but do you have any like positive, like attack articles on you out there? Like, like, no, usually the articles Aren't explicitly attack because I think you are more like susceptible to the woke, like, or like more of an easy target for the current cultural war because like you're associated with like, are you right wing?

Are you being tried? Are you weird sex people? Nobody f*****g knows. And me, I'm just like a sex worker. I think this confuses people because like a lot of the mainstream media right now is sort of like at least lip service pro sex work. Yeah. So I think this is confused a lot of the ways that people talk about me.

Normally, I'm in, I'm in media that I didn't volunteer to participate in because people are reporting on something outrageous that I've tweeted. And then that, that will get through the same repeat. Like there'll be like one big article that somebody writes like, Hey, look at this insane thing. She didn't shower very much.

And then there'll be like a [00:19:00] whole string of other articles of people like copying over that information. I'm like. No, but I, I, well, I mean, of the attention economy, you grab a lot of it. I love that. Very, very good at that. It's not really that intentional to be clear. I was like, if Norman, like, I didn't know this was the thing guys, but okay.

But by the way, I don't know if this has happened to you. One of the types of articles that now we watch out for a lot is somebody spotted us meeting publicly with a friend. And now like that entire friend group doesn't talk to us. And like now we cannot meet publicly with people anymore. Like I can't go publicly to restaurants with friends.

I can't like, it's really weird. Like I didn't expect this to happen as quickly. Have you had that happen to you? Like somebody was like, Hey, no, I don't think I have the hate attention of mainstream publications in the same way you do for some reason. I'm more of like, This is, this is, this is Julia Black, a stalker.

Who you know well, who I don't have. like that. There is a [00:20:00] little weird though, because like, I have no, I've hung out with somebody like at conferences, like publicly, I'm talking to people who Like maybe their reputations could be damaged by seeing associated with me, but you know, nothing happens. So I think maybe I just like, don't have a, like you are, you have a thing.

I think you're like easily compressed into sort of a trope, which is like the pro natalist racist or something. Yeah. And I don't think I'm like quite as, like, the weird sex worker is like less of a powerful trope. So I think I'm less vulnerable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I think that outsiders look at this.

They're like, oh, well, I think the trope that you get grouped into, which you don't fall into at all, is, and it's interesting, is actually almost as strong as us. So it's us. We're pronatalists, but we're really anti racism. And we try to signal that really loudly, but people don't always notice. You are a sex worker, but you are also, I consider a very high tier intellectual.

And you try to signal that, but a lot of people probably like group you in was like, sex worker must be bimbo. I get those comments so much. It's like, why isn't anybody taking this w***e seriously? I get that [00:21:00] constantly. Or like, she's a sex worker opinion discarded. It's like a, almost like you could copy paste that comment.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like, how could you? You are. And for people who don't know we hang out with like a lot of the quote unquote, like dissident intellectual class. She is pretty much universally respected within that community. As an intellectual. Other people might not be out there saying that.

So one thing I wanted to talk about before we end this, cause, cause this was actually what prompted me to reach out to you about this was a chart that you put together. Yeah. Yeah. Of how much women like it, how much men do it, of sexual fetishes. Yeah. Or let's, it's like a little bit more sex acts as opposed to fetishes, but there are some fetishes in there.

Yeah. And to encourage people to get your thing, I am going to gray this out, so people won't know if their thing is on here or not. But you also put into this what was really interesting, is the standard deviation for like ratings, like is there less variance or more variances? Is this one of these things that people either hate [00:22:00] or love, or is it something that like most people agree on?

There was one thing that really surprised me on here, a lot actually. And it was that almost no women like this. And it was, he doesn't care that much if you come or not. Which is interesting, because I've actually heard the opposite from women, or in a lot of sources that I knew, which is that women don't like when a guy is over focused on whether or not she came.

Now, of course, also in the negative camp is like, thinking you came when you didn't come, asking you if you came if you didn't come. So it's basically like, he needs to make you come, but not be concerned about it. But it was really fascinating to me. I was wondering if you had thoughts on that. Like, is this something you expected when you were doing this, or?

I was also pretty surprised by this result, but I guess it like makes sense if you think about it. Like I have another one in there that's like, he's disappointed if you don't come and like people are much more split on this. So it's like a weird thing where he has to care [00:23:00] and, but like he can't, you're right.

He has to like thread the needle. My guess is that women don't want to feel pressured. Like, Oh s**t. Like I I don't want to feel like I need to come like, but they want him to care a little bit. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, okay, so I'm trying to think, what are some of the ones that are the most, she likes it but men almost never do it?

One that's a real outlier here is he wants to roleplay non consent. Our, one of our other videos with you is on non consent parties. So this, if we speak of female male arbitrage, this is a huge area of arbitrage. Women like non consent more than men do it. Yeah, absolutely. This is, I mean, this is one of the most, the things that appears in my data, like regardless of the study I do or what I'm measuring, like women wanting to submit more than men want to dominate is just basically across the board.

And again, like we were saying, like in, Recently that like sadism tends to be one of the subclasses in which this is pronounced, but it's a press all over. I think it should make [00:24:00] sense. Like men are like afraid of being dominant and like maybe men legitimately aren't dominant, which is a kind of weird topic in itself.

But yeah, absolutely. Women way more into that weird topic. Maybe men aren't dominant. What have you seen in this area? Well, like what are your thoughts? Well, I mean, so this is one of the very, very early things that got me into sex research. I was actually listening to Jeffrey Miller give a talk in Thousand Mutual Friend, by the way, I really, I, we haven't had him on the podcast.

I'm gonna make a note. . Oh yeah, you, he's great. But this is, I met him back in 2018 when he was, I was living in New York and he was there and he was like giving a little talk to. It's the rationalist, I think, and I remember being like, well, he's, I asked him, you know, why are more men dominant than women are submissive?

And he like, he didn't really know, which makes sense because nobody f*****g knows. It turns out this has been like one of the biggest focuses in my research since then. And like, there's various theories, but, I don't have a good sense of why. Like one, it's like maybe it's this testosterone thing and testosterone levels are dropping.

So everybody's getting more submissive. [00:25:00] Maybe. Maybe it's like the gay Listen, I can, I can give you an answer. I know the answer. Yeah? No. I know, I actually do know the answer. I can give you the answer. Okay, okay. Okay, look at the genetic Data from the agricultural transition period in human history. So this is like right when we were transitioning to an agricultural society in the early agricultural period 14 women would have children for every one man that would have children.

So you didn't need this to appear at the same rate across men for some men, it was about just not dying and having one or two kids, whereas chieftains women would cook. Conglomerate toward them. So you don't need. Men and women to perfectly match men need to either be super dominant when they're in the chieftain or king role or be submissive and nightly to the, to the extent that they are able to follow a chieftain or king which is a different psychological subset.

Yeah, I think that this is a theory. I think this is related to my, my gay uncle theory where some men sort [00:26:00] of self selected out because of like fewer men reproduce than women. Although I hadn't tied it specifically to the concept of like the chieftain thing. But I'm not totally convinced about this though.

Tell me what you think is bad about this theory. I mean, 14 women were breeding for every man. That's 14 women to one man. That's what was happening on average. That means that many men had 30 wives. Right. But like. Like, could we not say something like, Oh, say the dominant man reproduces at like a much higher rate the dominant genes get spread or, but like, maybe there's some, some of the men, if his genes like.

Or deliberately are not competing, like, why waste resources on them at all? Like, they have to have some sort of comparative advantage. And it seems weird to not, like, be spending all of the genes on the thing that has the max advantage. Like, like, things tend to be just really competitive in that way. And it's similar to, like, why, like, I think the gay uncle theo Like, literally, the gay uncle theory part is bad.

Because, like, gay Like, why would you spend genes on having a gay man? Like, the selfish gene theory. Like, [00:27:00] those genes There's no such good of the group kind of thing. I don't know. I'm not really expressing myself super clearly here. I'm sorry, I'm going to take the gay uncle theory, split it out here. First of all, what you said was really smart.

I like it and I'm probably wrong. You convinced me I'm probably wrong there. Okay. I don't know. I'm just saying you're not necessarily right. I'm saying, I don't know. It's not enough information. Gay uncle theory is the theory that gay men have either they invest in childcare for their siblings in a way that increases the number of kids they can have, or they have siblings of gay men who have kids particularly women, have female offspring that are more feminine.

Then they otherwise would be the two iterations of the gay uncle theory. The problem is, is you would just need to have so many extra kids to offset the kids. The gay uncle is having, it doesn't make sense. Also it doesn't make sense because you see similar rates of gay populations in animal species where you have no parental care, mammal species specifically.

These are my two arguments. Thank you. That's [00:28:00] thank you for your, I, this is, I didn't. actually know that. And it's, I like that you're strengthening my argument though. Yeah. Well, I mean, so people don't often consider if, if I would have two kids, like, okay, suppose I'm supposed to have four kids and my gay uncle's supposed to have four kids.

But he decides to have no kids, and we still need to be, like, genetically successful as a family, then I need to double the number of kids I'm having. Like, that's really hard. If you look at my family historically, I have my family's birth records. If I go great grandfather and back, for, like, every person for, like, four generations, we had 12 kids each.

A gay uncle was not gonna double the 12 kids. Yeah, that's, that's a good point. Yeah. So, I mean, like there might be like maybe roundaboutly something to the gay uncle theory, but I find it kind of implausible. And for that reason, I'm like less swayed by thoughts that like maybe men's like are self selecting out of the gene pool a little bit by being submissive.

I'm like, why would that be beneficial at all? [00:29:00] My guess is it's more likely some sort of like weird anomaly or like a change in. In testosterone levels or something, but I don't know. Very interesting. Okay, I want to see if any other, other things here strike me as interesting. Oh, here's one. So, so the, he wants to roleplay Nugget, like that was a controversial one, right?

One that women really like that not many men ask for is you edge him and he edges you. Yeah, I was really surprised by that one. Aging in women is popular, but not in men. Yeah, I don't know what that I don't even know. I'm not really into edging personally, so it's like hard for me to develop theories for that.

I've never met someone who told me they were into edging, but apparently men don't ask this enough, so Yeah. To be fair, in this survey, the I actually didn't use identical phrasings for both of the edgings, so it's possible that there's some artifact making, like, the gender thing different, but the [00:30:00] absolute location of them are correct.

But yeah, I don't know. Here's one that almost all women are into, or a lot of women are into, but like guys don't realize women are into, he's experimental, suggesting unusual things, or he asks you to try an unusual but inoffensive fetish. So knowing your inoffensive fetishes as a guy is actually pretty safe with women.

Even if there's one that was like, it even showed, even if you're not interested in it. I can't remember what that was. Like, that was the word you used. I think that might be the unusual but inoffensive fetish one, I think. Okay, I can't remember. Another one that's actually pretty common for, that I think would surprise a lot of people is He's aroused by your pain.

Yeah, the sadism. Yeah. Yeah, that's the sadism gap. Men just don't like hurting women that much, which is so funny because like a lot of like the anti porn feminist stuff is like, oh, porn is corrupting [00:31:00] men to make them like more brutal and rough with women. And I'm like, porn is accurately updating men.

Excuse me. It's so funny you say this. So, we wanted to do an episode and this is what actually encouraged one of the things that encouraged us to reach out to you is I wanted to do a The data versus Mary Harrington. I like Mary Harrington. I've met her. We've done interviews with her. She's a nice person, but she will go out and say things like men like choking women because they watch porn and this means they hate women or like they look down on women.

I'm like, no women like being choked and not enough damn men are choking them. That's what the data says. Yep, absolutely. This is like one of the most robust findings around sex research, is that women desperately want men to do this more. Although to be clear, this is like pretty bimodal for women. So like, this is like the hurt me, please me spectrums that we have been talking about.

Like, like, this might be why we're seeing such like a pushback publicly. It's because like women either really like being choked [00:32:00] and hurt or they f*****g hate it. And so you probably have women who f*****g hate it, who are like, What the hell? Porn is teaching men to do things to me that I don't want them to do, and they sort of typical mind assume all of the other women are the same.

Whereas like if things were like more, you know, normal distribution, maybe that those are less polarizing for the discourse. Yeah, no, I think that's really powerful. And I think that that's where we need to move. Like if you're having the honest discourse, which is what we try to do on this podcast, the truth is, is that this is a bimodal thing you need to establish before you sleep with someone, whether or not this is something that they're interested in no.

that many more women who are interested in this have their partners actually doing it with them. But there is a portion of women who sleep with men who are trained to do this by the many women they're sleeping with because on average, like half of women are into this. And then they do it with this one woman who like hates it.

Like it's a very bimodal and they're like, Oh my God, how could you have done that to me? Do you hate me? Do you hate women? Are you a monster? Did you learn this from porn? And it's like, no, I learned it from my ex. She told me she liked it. I don't know.[00:33:00]

Yep, absolutely. Although I don't, I don't know, I mean, the data might say it's bimodal, my experience is it's like 80 percent of women. Well, it might be some selection effect. So like, I have two boyfriends right now. One of the boyfriends is like, Hmm, it sure seems like almost every woman I have sex with wants me to hurt her.

That's interesting. I have my other boyfriend. It's like, I just have never really come across women who want rough sex. And I'm just like, Whoa, tell me, I don't need to know who they are. I want to know the personality profile. How are they attracting these two different categories? Yeah, it's, it's, it's, so they both have extremely high body count.

So it's not like there's something that they're putting out that's attracting different women. So I'm saying, I think you might be putting out the, like, somehow, I don't know. But like, it's interesting because both of them are quite traditionally male and like dominant feeling. They're both like, I'm a man who will ravish you, but in different ways.

I think one of them's a lot [00:34:00] sweeter. Oh, is the one who attracts the women who don't want that sweeter? No. Oh, okay. So here's the, here's the hypothesis. Oh, sorry. I don't want yes. Sorry. I was confused by your The one who, we don't want to attract women who want to be hurt. Sweet guy attracts vanilla girls.

But to be fair, he's still quite, I, sweet feels like it's not really summing it up. He's much more emotive. He's like very emotional, like can sink into his body, embodied, like very, like, Is this the one I met? Cause he seemed very sweet to me. Which one did you, I thought, did you not meet both of them? Oh, I thought I, I don't know.

I, I, I, the number one main squeeze guy who I've referenced before. Oh yeah, that was the, he's definitely more of that. He attracts women who are more like so brutally submissive. No, we're not naming anyone. We're not. Okay. Okay. No. Okay. So being named, to be clear, I really want this guy right now or something and like [00:35:00] talking about your relationship.

It's fine. I like it. Yeah, it's, it's been going well, he, he likes it when I talk about him because he was the one that wrote me like the, you're not that pretty card. I don't know if you saw this at all. I love that post. Continue. But that was in private Kayla room, right? In, I posted this on Twitter and I found people started writing.

This is one of the things that people wrote articles about. Sorry, I never know what's from the private chat and what's not. Yeah, it's okay. Okay, tell, talk about this. This is a good one. Yeah. So he wrote, he told me I wasn't that pretty. It was in context. It made more sense because I was like, I think everybody's gaslighting me about how hot I am.

They're saying I'm pretty. I don't think I'm that pretty. And he was like, yeah, you're not that pretty. I was like, my poor heart. Anyway, he wrote me a card saying, I'm sorry, because it was very sweet moment that he ruined by saying that. I'm glad he did anyway. And then I posted on Twitter and went viral.

And then at the end of the viral tweet, I was like. If anybody wants to apply to have sex with him, here's a, here's a form you can fill out. Did you talk about [00:36:00] how good he was in bed? He very, he, this is, he can call me not that pretty all day. Okay. His dick is fire. So, which is interesting. So the, the former actually got quite a lot of responses.

I think he had 150 women fill it out and he has had sex with a lot of them at this point. Which is interesting that something like that attracts so many women. Like my guess is that. they were seeing him sort of neg me in a sense and like I'm like relatively like in this context high status right because I'm like have a lot of followers or whatever and so they were perceiving him like oh if I can have sex with this guy this sort of means that I'm special about having sex with him you have had sex with lots of people when I was younger I had a high body count but one of the primary mechanisms that serves girls for me was other girls opinions of sleeping with me.

One girl would tell all her friends, one you can sleep with him, he's safe, and he's like, fun in these ways. And I think that guys underestimate it. It's so funny, all these red [00:37:00] pillers are out there, like, trying to be like, And it's not, like, I identify as a red piller to some extent. I think they see some things that are true, but, like, they try to be, like, tough and, like, and, and cruel towards women in a way sometimes, and it's, like, the easiest way to get women to have sex with you is to have another woman who they respect saying, you should go and have sex with this guy.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is the Girl Whisper Network. This is the reason I originally had sex with this guy, actually, is because one of my friends, who he used to date, was like, I think you might really enjoy sex with him. And I was like, take your This is a good voucher. I'll go try it. Sure not to be right. Very Catherine Green of you.

Very what? Well, Katherine the Great used to have a person I don't know if this is myth, but it's at least heavily canonized myth that Katherine the Great used to have a woman who was supposed to sleep with all of her potential partners before her to see if they were worth her time. That's so smart.

Wait, I should get one of these! Wait, no, I think I did. Like, cause, cause his [00:38:00] partner, he has another girlfriend who I like. Quite a lot. And she's so super slutty, so I can just have, and we have very similar sex tastes, just ask her. I love this. You need an AILA vetting system. He needs a vetting system now.

Well, I mean, with 150 potential. applicants here. This is what you get for sexually pleasing someone like Ayla. You get it published on Twitter and then a huge pool of applicants coming to you. But hold on, actually, I want to, I, I think when you talk about the sweet guy versus the not sweet guy contrarianism, I actually think contrarianism might be the difference.

Is this, is the guy who is attracting the vanilla girls, not a contrarian? Well, no, it's. It's, well, depends what you mean by contrarian. I would say Does he like, like, arguing and disagreeing with the mainstream perspective? No, not, not in that way, I think. Oh, okay. But he's very good at holding his ground and not like, giving in to what [00:39:00] women sort of want.

Like, he passed the s**t test with flying colors kind of thing. Oh, so this is the first thing with me? Speaking of s**t tests, because people, okay, first I'll define a s**t test for people who don't know what that are. It says, theory was in the red pill community that women will test you for your dominance.

To be like, hey, you, you know, whatever, right? When I was dating around, like, and sleeping around, I never got s**t tests. I've gotten like maybe two s**t tests in my entire life. I bet you got s**t tests. I bet you got s**t tested though. You think I'm just too, I'm too blind to notice that they were s**t testing me.

I was just like, because like the way that red pillars talk about s**t tests are usually extremely obvious. Like the girl will like insult you and see if you felt her or she'll like, ask you to hold her purse is the classic example. But I think the vast majority of s**t tests are significantly subtler.

And they're more like, like asking you a question to see if you try to like, say a response that feels like you're trying to make her happy, like stuff like that. Oh, For reference, by the way, if a [00:40:00] woman ever asked me to hold her purse, I wouldn't take that as a s**t test. I would hold her purse. Like, women need help sometimes.

It's only when you s**t test in, like, trad culture or something. It's not a s**t test in normal culture. They're just, like, inconsiderate and they think they're being s**t tested. But I love what you're saying. You're probably right there. Is they would ask me stuff, or maybe the reason they didn't s**t test me is it was obvious I didn't care what they, like, mainstream society thought or what their opinion was.

And I think what the test might be deployed for is men who are trying to get a woman to sleep with them by pretending to mirror their belief system. Yeah, very much. I think this is very close to the sex, did you read the sex is a status game post that I wrote? I liked it. Okay. Tell me, tell me more about the reference here.

I wrote a post, so this is, it is sort of like a, I think should test our subcategory. It's one of the tabs I have open on my screen right now, but continue. Yeah. It's, it's not a huge deal, but it's just describing like the ways that we do status games in interactions and how this is like very prevalent.

And it's a lot of people have like a really negative [00:41:00] connotation with the concept of status, but it doesn't have to be. Often it's very like game like and often it's very like playful. Like when you're flirting with somebody, this Often involves a lot of status play. And so like I break down videos of like analyzing how like the status play is happening and like romantic interactions or whatever.

But I think that s**t tests are like one subcategory of this. Like you want to, you're testing the guy to see if he can like, not. Be broken underneath your will or something. That's like a strong way of putting it, but it's much more subtler. It's something like, is this guy, am I seeing who this guy is, or am I seeing like a version of this guy who's like trying to warp himself into something to get into my pants?

So, guys might not understand how important this is for women. Like, this is not an idle thing. So when I've been giving women, like, dating and sex advice and stuff like that, they're like, how do I tell if a guy's just telling me what I want to hear or if he is actually being honest to who he is because I'm looking for Either a long term partner or something like that, right?

And a lot of guys learn, they can just tell them what they want to hear to get the [00:42:00] woman to sleep with them. There is a reason for women to be vetting for this, but I think that there's a certain type of guy. I might be an example of this. Who's just so obviously not telling people what they want to hear that they don't need to test it that much.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's probably what's going on. They're like, oh, this guy doesn't give a s**t when I think about him. Okay. . Yeah, he, whatever he feels like. Anyway, I, I love this. This is fun. I, I, I, I hate, so I love that I have a podcast now that I have a reason to have you on to talk with me, because I'm the type of person who like doesn't reach out to talk with my friends unless there's some immediate utility to me.

Yeah, same. I'm like, okay, what's the advantage of talking to this individual right now? Which is so horrible. I'm assuming you're passing that way, I guess. But I, I consider you a good friend. And so I'm glad that I have this excuse to chat with you in a way that potentially advances both of our interests.

And to advance her interests, you need to go. And if you want to learn how to be good in bed for your long term partner, or if you're like, oh, I'm not sure if this weird thing [00:43:00] I'm into is actually normal to be into. Learn if you're actually a friend. Freaky, pathetic weirdo, or if you're, if you're not, but you've got to get behind the paywall.

I'm not giving you the paywall stuff. I actually thought like after I read your article, I was like, this would be a good solo episode and I can put it on the screen. And I'm like, I'm not going to do that. We got to get you subscribed. I decided to try to earn money because I've been doing free research, publishing and quite a lot of work for years.

I'm like, you know what, maybe I should try to get a little bit of pay. So I'm pay well on some of it now. Well, you, you, what's, what was the point of sleeping with all these people? If you didn't, if you weren't doing it to collect data so that now you can turn around and use it on the public and be like, Hey, do you want somebody who objectively has more data on sleeping with people than Maybe all but a hundred thousand people in human history.

It's like her and Genghis Khan here, people. You're not going to get better advice. Oh, thanks. [00:44:00] It's a great interview. No, it's, it's true. I think it's like objectively, you probably know more abo