New Research Reveals How Female Sexuality ACTUALLY Works

In this engaging episode, we delve into the complexities of human sexuality, challenging traditional views and misconceptions influenced by political events from the 1980s. We discuss Aela's recent research that suggests sexual orientation is overly focused on gender due to historical biases and male-dominated research. The conversation shifts to BDSM and how dominance and submission dynamics play a significant role in female sexuality. We address the rise of the 'sex wars' and compare them to previous 'woke wars', exploring societal reactions to BDSM avidity. Additionally, we examine the evolutionary and genetic roots of sexual preferences, the importance of understanding sexual profiles within relationships, and the impact of misclassifying these preferences. This episode is an invitation to contemplate the deep-seated nature of sexual orientation and the potentially harmful consequences of ignoring these discussions.

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. Today we are going to be talking about a very, very fun topic, which is does human sexuality act actually work the way we think it does? ALA did a piece on this recently where she was digging through the research and she came to a conclusion very similar to our own, which is the only reason we see sexual orientation, IE preference for specific genders as the predominant aspect of human sexuality is because of weird political stuff that happened in the eighties.

And if you actually look at the data, that is a fairly bad way to divide humanity.

Simone Collins: I mean, I would add it, it's also from mostly male researchers doing this, and men do tend to have a more sex. Oriented sexuality, so that makes sense.

Malcolm Collins: So we're gonna go through a lot of her research on this. We're gonna go through the idea that she's gonna promote in this, which is she calls it like BDSM sexuality, but it's more like a sexuality that is more focused on which partner is the dominant or submissive partner.

Mm-hmm. Then focus on the gender of the partner. Mm-hmm.

As we've pointed out historically, this appears to be the primary form of sexuality in your average woman, not every woman, right? Mm-hmm. The same way that not every man is, you know, attracted to women, right. But on

Simone Collins: average it's, it's fair to argue per the research that Malcolm did, that women exist more along the lines of dominant submission orientation than they do to like attraction to.

Man versus woman, which is more how it is for men.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And now other people are pulling out this data, which I love, and which we're gonna go into. But this is

Simone Collins: really important, especially considering that, especially for women. BDSM oriented sexuality or like power, dynamic oriented sexuality. Is this pervasive because we are seeing what.

Ala alluded to in this, in this Substack piece, she did sort of a rise of the sex wars, which she sort of sees as being a predecessor or the, the next thing after the woke wars. Where, and we see this on all sides of the political spectrum. Mm-hmm. There are people including women who are like, this is disgusting.

This is, you know, you know, a violation of women's rights. This is violent, this is horrible. And that is for the same reason why in the past you would see many often predominantly male leaders being like, gay sex is disgusting. This is wrong. And that is because, as you point out in the pragmatist guide to sexuality sexuality exists on a, like, the way we react to, to things like, sources of arousal is we're either aroused or we are disgusted.

So if you, if you may be aroused by something or you could be disgusted by it, and it, it's very hard to not equate disgust with bad morals. So despite the fact that many women are aroused by being dominated, the women who are disgusted by it just can't model that this could possibly be sexy to someone.

Yeah. And I say not

Malcolm Collins: many women, the vast majority of women are aroused by being dominated. Yeah. In the war, people

Simone Collins: can't, they can't, they can't wrap their heads around that. They're like this, it's impossible. It's disgusting. It's immoral.

Malcolm Collins: I love the red pill, like figured this out and it was like their free pass to sex for like half a generation.

What an

Simone Collins: arbitrage play. I mean, it still is though, dominance among men or women. One of the easiest things you can do if you're looking to get partners is to to be the dominant person. Well,

Malcolm Collins: especially because males have become less dominant over time. Mm-hmm. Likely due to environmental pollutants. Yeah.

But that's neither here nor there. Let's go into the data on this. And I'm skipping a bit into this because at the beginning she just had a bunch of stats that I don't think were relevant and we can hit them at the end if we want to or we have time.

Simone Collins: It was about other stuff. It wasn't ne necessarily about, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: When it comes to solid BDSM, you start to see a similar bimodal distribution of interest. The most common relationship people have towards BDSM is either completely uninterested or extremely interested. Mm-hmm. There isn't much of a middle. In fact, in my data, someone's BDSM interest explains more structured variation in their sexuality than whether they're gay or straight.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And here is a very interesting graph, which is both genders, relative strengths, factors, and the variance explained by each of these. So this is looking at, if you're looking at one thing that arouses somebody, how explanatory is that gonna be of all the other things that arouse that person. Ooh. The, the on a zero to 10 graph BDSM is almost an eight, whereas GA to straight is only a 4.5.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that makes sense.

Malcolm Collins: So it's not that BDSM is. Like somewhat more indicative of somebody's actual sexual profile. It is almost twice as indicative.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And then if you're looking at what actually comes between BDSM and gay straight is horror horror related horror, horror, H-O-R-R-O-R is more indicative of somebody's sexual profile.

If they are interested in horror related content. What is

Simone Collins: horror related content?

Malcolm Collins: Guru porn would be an example of that. That's super niche guru would likely be an example of that. Again, super niche.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay. But, okay. Yeah. 'cause that's not as pervasive, but it is very predictive Murder

Malcolm Collins: would be an example of that, which, which is common in a lot of things.

Yeah. Monster related stuff would likely be an example of that. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So yeah, a lot, a lot of stuff that's in a lot of form. Okay.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: After gay straight, the next one that's almost the same as gay straight in terms of explanation of pro profile is incest slash age play.

After that, again, almost as good is gender play. And then the, the lowest is sensuality. Hmm. Which is actually a core part of like women's sexual profiles.

Simone Collins: What even missed that,

Malcolm Collins: and keep in mind this graph is not about the popularity of each of these. It's about their explanatory values to the variance of other arousal parts of the person.

Right.

Simone Collins: In other words, how predictive is it of, or how much does it correlate with? Yeah. Almost kind of like, you know, going back to the episode that you did on how political ideology sets clustered.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But those said that anything was in the cluster is a good indication of everything else.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Here's

Malcolm Collins: the thing. This one thing is a much better indication than anything else.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It, it's like if you could tell just from a person's abortion stance or just Well, no, no, no. Reverse it. So

Simone Collins: what, what the study did that's like this is that being a democrat in this study was extremely predictive of this huge set of ideologies, which is pretty crazy.

Yeah. And that's what you're seeing here is, is being into BDSM is hugely predictive of a whole bunch of other ideologies. Meaning that you can, if you know people are into BDSM fairly accurately infer a lot of things about their sexuality. The same way where knowing someone is a Democrat, or sorry, especially a Democrat, can enable you to infer a lot of ideologies.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But very different because we're talking about one thing versus other things. So I wouldn't go too deep on that.

Simone Collins: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. The above graph is a result of factor analysis, basically a process that finds the natural clusters in the data. For example, the classic big five personality test was built off of factor analysis.

Basically, they ask people a bunch of questions and then notice the questions like, are you the life of a party? Or really predictive of answers to a bunch of other questions. Like, I like adventure, I enjoy chatting with strangers. That's, if you know somebody is the quote unquote life of the party, you can make a bunch of better guesses about other parts of them in a way that is less true for questions like they like cake more than pie.

And, and what she's saying here is the they like cake more than pie is they like males more than females, or females more than males. And the I'm the life of the party is the, are you into BDSM or horror?

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: If we explain the same process to a bunch of questions about what arouses you, someone's attitudes towards BDSM emerge as the most distinct and defining cluster People who like it, people who dislike it are distinct.

I. And different from each other, more so than they are along any other axis. And here you can see just how far apart they are from this screen plot I put here.

Simone Collins: Hmm. The

Malcolm Collins: sexual interest spectrum into men versus women is not very different from other types of sexual interests. It's just more visible.

The category of gender as a sexual interest is a public thing heavily ritualized by culture. This makes sense since males and females having fetishes for each other's bodies, results in reproduction. And this has gotten real popular and become a wholesome cornerstone of civilization and media and identity.

I love how she describes males and females have a fetish for each other's bodies, and it got popular and it's a cornerstone of civilization and identity. You swap out just the type of body that goes through the ritual marriage. So we get the concept of sexual orientation as distinct from other types of sexual interests.

There's no quote unquote marriage concept for other fetishes. And the core reason of this is John Money. We haven't done the episode on him yet, but we have filmed it and he is a monster and he is the one who invented this concept. It is not a natural thing to think. You might say that gendered sexual orientation is distinct for reasons besides social orientation, such as it wholly defines who you can have a satisfying sexual relationship with.

This is obvious from accounts of gay people who didn't know they were gay, trying to make a straight relationships work, quote anything physical felt force. Like I was an actor playing a role. I never understood why people liked kissing or sex. Mm-hmm. For me, it was uncomfortable at best, painful at worse.

I was never attracted to men. I was just wisdom because it was expected. But you can find your identical accounts from people with other types of sexual orientations too. BDSM as asexual orientation.. I thought there was something off about my sexuality since high school because I didn't get turned on, when hooking up with my partners.

I thought maybe I was gay, but it was the same as the girl I dated. I was attracted to her and enjoyed physical contact with her, but I couldn't get turned on the way I did when I was fantasizing about dark things alone in my bed. I did get turned on in a few in-person situations, a girl holding me down and kissing me.

A guy fingering me on the dance floor while I was squirmed away. And eventually I realized that's what I was into. Once I got comfortable enough telling people what I was into, it took a while. I started having good sex. I am not disgusted by vanilla sex, but it is a similar vibe to cuddling for me and can be awkward because I'm simply not turned on by even the hottest person imaginable, gently going down on me.

Simone Collins: Hmm. And

Malcolm Collins: then another person said, I occasionally want vanilla sex with people I really love, but I don't get turned on by it.

Simone Collins: This is so the rising sex wars. I think it's super, super damaging, especially to women because already it's, it's a really big problem. I think that many women don't realize that they could have incredibly satisfying sex if they were just aware of this dynamic.

Yeah. Like, I cannot emphasize based on the data that you found in the Pregnant Guide to Sexuality, how many women are having these experiences where they are having vanilla loving sex with their partners,

Malcolm Collins: and they're just like, I'm not into this at all. Right. Yeah. They're like, well, I guess

Simone Collins: I just, you know, and they're like, well, you know, women don't really, they're not into sex and they don't realize that like, and you know, ala describes this in, in the blog post too.

She's like, you know, I, I didn't, you know, I had a little bit of like, sort of the vanilla experience to begin with. And then, but like, she, she just thought she didn't have a sex drive.

Malcolm Collins: Well, oh no. And this is why it's very important to educate young women about this. Mm-hmm. Or they can end up thinking they're gay when they're not gay.

Yeah. Same with young men. They can end up thinking they're trans when they're not trans. Would you. Do not explain normal sexual profiles. And here I'm not defining normal by what Christians accept or what society accept. No. By actual

Simone Collins: sexual profiles,

Malcolm Collins: by frequency at least within our current system.

Yeah. You end up with people making really bad decisions about who they are and their life choices. Yeah. At worse.

Simone Collins: And it, and, and at best you have people who live their entire lives with no sexual satisfaction. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Despite maybe

Simone Collins: being, you know, happily married and having sex multiple times a week.

Can you imagine?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. No, it is, it's honestly a really sad outcome. And these god, these women who go into this like anti-porn, anti kink rants and everything.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, because that, that, so like to all the women, that those women who are fully disgusted by this and who think it's morally bad, like, it's not like they're, they're pretending.

It's not like they're hiding something or they, they, they know the truth. They don't know the truth. Okay. Maybe some are, I, I wanna think that they don't know the truth, but now this is like, so the women who haven't yet discovered that their sexuality is as ala calls it bd, BD sexuality are, are thinking, well, I better never ever get involved with that because that is, that is me being hurt by people.

Yeah. Me, me being victimized and hurt and traumatized and, and, and then they never discover it and they live sexually lives. No, I honestly

Malcolm Collins: believe that the women who like freak out and go on rants about this, it reminds me of how we keep fighting like, you know, like Republican who are like anti-sex, anti-porn guys, like in public bathrooms, having sex with random men, you know?

Oh, you think they're

Simone Collins: secretly into it? I dunno. I mean like, keep in mind like a lot of the men who are super anti-gay, were, are like literally just from a sexual orientation standpoint, very, very disgusted by male bodies.

Malcolm Collins: I think the majority of the men who are the most anti-gay are gay. Like, this is something we keep seeing in the data, right?

Like, the thing is, is that if you're actually just like grossed out by men or like turned off by choking or whatever. Mm-hmm. And especially if you have a long term partner and it's not like an active threat to you when you're going out and hooking up with people, you just don't think about it that much.

Mm. It's the people who are constantly thinking about it and needing to suppress it. Mm. Who are the ones who constantly talk about it.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: Which is I think why you see us where we're like, oh, this is curious, but like, we just don't have that much of a horse in this race. We're like you know, don't screw up your kids, but, you know, whatever.

Whereas the people who get like really passionate and go on these big tirades about like, men choke us and I'm like, you are thinking a lot about men choking you. I, I don't know if like. And as we've pointed out women actually have a, a, your average woman, like if, if you're looking at the percentage of women who prefer this, more women are turned on by this than turned off by this.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And, but the, and PSA, as you point out in the prime, which Guide to Sexuality, which is free to our Patreon premium subscribers audiobook and ebook it you really like, as much as that might turn you on, you really shouldn't, like, in terms of these sexually related deaths out there, auto asphyxiation

Malcolm Collins: is, no, you shouldn't.

It's, it's, it's dangerous. We talked Yeah, like there, there are other

Simone Collins: ways that you can get satisfaction, almost certainly. So, please be careful if that does turn you on. 'cause you know, danger.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, to quote one of her friends who, who anonymously talked to her about this, she goes, I occasionally have vanilla sex with people I really love, but I still don't get turned on by it either I make sex purely about connecting with eroticism, or I think kinky thoughts and get turned on that way.

So they're, they're having vanilla sex and they're like, I love it. She quotes this as anon friend. Part of me wonders if this is her just writing as an anon friend. I think talk, she asked for quotes. Yeah, true. No, she, no, I think she

Simone Collins: really did this research.

Malcolm Collins: If, if you swapped out, well, obviously she did.

She has huge sample sets. This was done on a sample. No, no, no. But I

Simone Collins: mean, in terms of the quotes she included in there she, she, she really worked hard to source those.

Malcolm Collins: If you swapped out kinky stuff for gay stuff, this would be indistinguishable from accounts of gay people trying to navigate life.

Totally. Before they figured out what they were.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: And then she says, and I like this 'cause she talks about it from personal experience. I am one of these tales. I've been into BDSM type stuff as long as I can remember some of my earliest memories four or five years old, were proto sexual fantasies, was bondage well before I had any exposure to anything sexual, whatever.

Simone Collins: Mm. I

Malcolm Collins: was in denial about it for years and my first relationship with vanilla after the initial novelty was my boyfriend wore off. So did our sex life entirely. I thought I had simply had a low sex drive. Sex seemed like a chore. I figured that's just the way sex was for everyone. Women weren't supposed to like sex that much, am I right?

But it turns out, actually, no, it wasn't that I didn't like sex, it was that I didn't like vanilla sex.

And this is where I'd push back against this narrative that we sometimes see on the right, which is that an individual gets corrupted by kinky stuff and formerly they were able to be turned on by, normal things. And now that they've engaged in kinky stuff, they no longer get turned on by normal things.

When if you actually look at the data, and we talk about this in the Pragma Dis Guide to Sexuality, what often actually happens is an individual is not particularly turned on by normal things, and then they finally figure out how to activate arousal in themselves. Through kinky stuff, and without that, they never would've had, an arousing sexual life.

And where this creates problems is around individuals who , grew up never being exposed to anything that significantly aroused them. And then they finally find something that significantly arouses them, uh, you know, in their teens or as an adult and they didn't build up the resistance to those types of things.

And so they end up having major problems around it. Um, but it's not. Because the thing is kinky, it is because they were never exposed to anything that really aroused them in the way that other people were aroused by things all the time.

Mm-hmm. Once I started engaging in kinky relationships, surprise, I suddenly had a vicious sex drive. Sex became bonding transcendent and wonderful the way everyone else had been talking about it finally made sense.

Nowadays IXK engage in exclusively in kinky relationships. And here there's a graph she has of a non-consent interest score by age of first interest. Oh. And what you can see is the non-consenting, whether it is you know, cis males, cis females, et cetera, non ci way stronger and more powerful if you first were interested in it before the age of five.

Simone Collins: Wow. Whoa, man. People have good memories. And then, you know what I was up to then stronger

Malcolm Collins: still if it's like before the age of 10, and then it drops down a lot and you don't see as much. You know, if you get, if you get to it between like 15 and 20. Hmm. And, and as she says here, for most fetishes in my data, the earlier the age of onset of a fetish, the more extreme the fetish tends to be.

People who report BDSM related fetishes, starting at the age of five or earlier, were the most into it. This is usually well before exposure to porn or likely anything sexual at all. This is good evidence, I think, for BDSM and sexual orientations in general, not just gender based ones being innate or otherwise quite early.

Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: And I'll note

Malcolm Collins: here you know, I've mentioned, you know, where I have non-normative arousal patterns. They started way before puberty for me like at least half a decade before puberty for me. Same. And when I, but

Simone Collins: not five IG How do, do you remember anything? You have a drink? No, not five. I, I went to

Malcolm Collins: puberty super late.

I went to puberty at like 16 and a half. It's crazy, super late. But the point here being is, is before that when I would, you know, lay in bed and create fantasy worlds and create, you know, stuff like that, like. The, the, the things that later I recognized were arousal were major features in these worlds.

Mm. But at the time I didn't contextualize them that way. Of course not. Yeah. Which I think shows that these are not things that are created by you know, environments when you're a kid. Certainly nothing happened to me when I was a kid. I think a lot of it is actually genetic and cultural. Yeah.

To, to be honest and like, we're not allowed to talk about that. We're not allowed to be like,

Simone Collins: and we 100% see this in

Malcolm Collins: like Japan. Like they prefer phenotypically young partners Yeah. And erotic materials across country.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And like the auntie porn that we kept having to take off that one site that I worked at early in career, this is

Malcolm Collins: in India, where they like older women who show what like, it was like,

Simone Collins: like armpits and just sort of Yeah.

Just. Middle-aged women, like not really looking. That would be

Malcolm Collins: no interest to me at all. Like yeah, it

Simone Collins: was, it was, it was very strange, but it was clearly a thing for some people. And I, I think it was clustered genetically. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And, and that's okay. Like mm-hmm. I know that we're, for whatever reason, I don't wanna talk about this, but I think that a lot of this is just genetic.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. You do you, you know, whatever,

Now, this may seem tangential or weird to talk about that usually the things that later become fetishes, , become things that people get interested in long before they go through puberty. But it actually matters a lot. If you are, for example, worried about your kids becoming, you know, sexual deviants, , , I think the perception is.

Oh, they're gonna see some weird, you know, website and that's gonna turn them onto all this stuff. When, if you actually read forums around people who have, uh, paraphilias or fetishes, , what it almost always is, is, oh yeah, there was that Power Rangers episode or that episode of a cartoon when I was a kid.

Or that, um, you know, how many people were awakened by. One of the Spy Girls episodes is, is, is a major joke.

Saber Spark: Are you kidding me? If there was a show that truly questioned the purpose of a cartoon, it was totally spies

race. What are we gonna do now? I mean, seriously. What the is this cartoon? One can't help but ask if totally spies was fetish fuel in disguise if the people who made this cartoon were subtly telegraphing their fetishes.

I mean, yeah, that's quite the bizarre accusation, but trust me, there is some interesting evidence that supports that claim really. Really interesting.

. There's bondage feet, schoolgirls mummification, buried in sand wigs. Life draining, shrinking muscles, skirts, sneezing, bondage, swimsuits, cross-dressing, sweating, face swap. Covered in mud, covered in gum, brainwashing, wrestling, bondage, showering, transformation, furries, towels, head enlargement.

Rule 63, cheerleading, entanglement, ripped clothes, weight gain, forced feeding, giant girls tattoos, frozen made outfits, cat girl outfits, aging, bondage, and shrinking clothes. So do you see where I'm coming from?

Simone Collins: But also seriously, like what is with the French, who made that show like Totally Spies is very suss for a children's show.

Or, you know, the people think, oh, they're, they're gonna be turned into furries by, , you know, going to a furry convention or hanging out when furries when instead it's, it's watching, the Disney's Robinhood, which turns somebody into a furry.

this matters because. It goes against the intuition a lot of people have, and it causes people to attempt to shield their kids from things that aren't actually relevant in the development of paraphilias.

Although I should place a special caveat with furries here because there actually are communities of furries that become common in schools and recruit kids that don't have this as a paraphilia, but are just normal kids and like pretending to be animals. As you can see in the recent video as we've had on ours, our kids have liked wearing, you know, animal ears recently and pretending to be like a fox or a cat.

That is a normal phase. Kids go through and sometimes other kids can PSYOPs them. Into very weird beliefs using urban monocultural ideas, or especially if they happen to be autistic or something. Um, but here I'm specifically talking about paraphilias and not the predatory communities.

Malcolm Collins: when you can't do anything about it. Yeah. If you contextualize it as deviant, it leads to deviant actions, because then that's such an important point.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Your, your arousal patterns are not an endorsement of those things. And, and I think for a lot of women, it's also really hard to navigate BD sexuality.

I'm just using ALA's coinage 'cause it's fun. Because women don't condone. Unauthorized surprise sex or you know, even if they

prefer it.

Yeah. Even if they prefer it, even if it really turns them on, like that doesn't mean it's okay. That doesn't mean they want it to happen. But it does mean that in some scenarios where they may simulate it, that it's really sexy for them.

I mean, so one thing that I'm wondering about though as I'm as I'm talking about this with you is there may be a lot of guys, like married guys who are listening to your podcast who are like, well, so I've only had vanilla sex with my wife. She's not very sexually adventurous at all, and she has zero sex drive.

And maybe they're wondering now like, well, crap. Like, does my wife have a sex drive that she just doesn't realize? She, but there's something you want to explore. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, I, the way, but how do you

Simone Collins: explore it if she, if, because I think a lot of women are uncomfortable talking about their sexuality. No.

Like, what do you

Malcolm Collins: do Books? Is she reading? How does she engage with sexuality and literature? Well, our society has a lot of taboos against women engaging with this publicly. If your wife is reading 50 Shades of Gray, that, that

Simone Collins: giveaway,

Malcolm Collins: that's a giveaway, right? Like you might see this as innocuous. It's not innocuous that is saying something

Simone Collins: fair.

If

Malcolm Collins: she is spending a lot of time in the monster effer part of the library you know, as, as I mentioned before, you know, one unique arousal pattern I've, I've mentioned publicly, is I, I find vampires really hot. Like before I went to, everyone thinks vampires

Simone Collins: are hot.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, not everyone does. Really only a few.

I remember West Virginia was like the cultural hot spots. Oh, is this like a person? Yeah. This, this just an us thing. I remember. Come on, the

Simone Collins: vampire movies are super big, but I guess in like white people territory, nevermind. So maybe, yeah. Maybe it's genuine. Yeah, no, I think

Malcolm Collins: it's like a white person.

It's like maybe, but like I. Vampires and werewolves. I was like every other book. And, and, and, and even though, you know, I hadn't gone through puberty, you know, these were books I was getting from the, the Vampire and werewolf section of the aisle, which means that they definitely had like sexual undertones.

Right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And the question is, is why are people doing this? Like, why are they engaging with this stuff even before puberty? Right. Like, and I think that that's also really important for people to contextualize.

Simone Collins: Good point. Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: A lot of girls, especially when they're engaging with this content, it's before they actually start to feel arousal.

When they are reading their first you know, the vampire stories are their first, well, whatever it is that turns them on, right? Yeah. Eventually,

Simone Collins: yeah. Gosh. Yeah. It's crazy how young kids learn about vampires. I mean, our kids know everything about vampire and zombie lore and.

Malcolm Collins: You got very mad at, did you know there's like a zombie movie now that's like, big?

Yeah, it's, so this, I don't know, it came out a few years ago, but it was like a movie for people who like want to slowly eat other people. Wait, what? What? Yeah. Yeah. It's about a girl and a guy. And it was clearly like about the sexual undertones. It is like a, a thing that came out like three or four years ago.

Simone Collins: Okay.

There were two of them. It turns out a raw and bones and all.

Malcolm Collins: But I guess I'm saying like, like, like good for them. What? Whatever. From Bob's Burger.

Speaker 2: Remember you let me watch Night of Living Dead when I was eight. So now I wake up every night standing in the middle of my room, .

Speaker: Wait, you still get those?

Speaker 2: Yeah, they're weirder now.

Speaker: Oh boy.

Speaker 2: I think my subconscious fears and my butting sexuality are getting all mixed up.

Speaker: Oh, okay. I, I, Tina, I don't wanna hear about, so I think I'm being

Speaker 2: attacked by zombies and I start screaming. Do you wanna make out. And I make go with it.

Speaker: Hmm. I might just bunk with gram and grams.

Okay. Enough. Gene, Louise, you sleep in Tina's room. Tina, you're quarantined. You sleep alone. We'll strap you down or something.

Speaker 2: Leave my lips free.

Simone Collins: Okay. And

Malcolm Collins: I was like, that's a, well, hey, keep in mind it's

Simone Collins: not my fetish. I, I, I guess I just can't, yeah, there's,

Malcolm Collins: there's the, the Zombie High, which is a very popular Disney show.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Where the, you've got the zombies and then like cheerleaders and then they added werewolves and then they added aliens. I don't know what else they've added

Simone Collins: because why not? Yeah, why

Malcolm Collins: not? Go for it. No, I mean, asking why are people into this stuff when it's contextualized in a romantic context is interesting.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. For something so innate resistance to attempts to change. And for something that so radically affects the type of relationships that work, it's odd that we don't have a term for this type of sexuality.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. So

Malcolm Collins: I'm going to refer to people with innate BDSM preference as BDSM. Sexual pronounced? No, as BD

Simone Collins: ecs.

Malcolm Collins: BD ecs. Oh, wait, sorry. As people was without a tender sexual, you know, that's, that's what she call the other thing. Tender Sexual and versus bd ECS sms. Beaty. Sms. Yeah. And she says she apologizes for the cheesiness Inventing words is her dumb sta.

Simone Collins: But I love that. I love that For ala, so we have gay straight, and then we have Tender Sexuals and Beaty ecs.

Malcolm Collins: But this is also important to know, right? Like if you are entering a relationship, and this is one of the reasons why this whole like, oh, no women's into this. No guy is into this. All of this stuff is bad.

Like it's, it's bad because it causes people to enter relationships. Those people, they are not sexually compatible with. Yeah. Can you

Simone Collins: imagine tender sexual, marrying sexual? That's, that's it. It can't work out. You, you can't fake that kind of stuff. It's

Malcolm Collins: no, you can't like, it, it does not work. Yeah. And, and you're going to end up, like you could, I mean, you could fake it like there's beards and stuff, but it's no different from living with a beard.

And I think it probably leads to a lot of divorces in cultures that are uncomfortable talking about this.

Simone Collins: I mean, yeah. Unless you're like really happy to have a. Sexless marriage,

Malcolm Collins: which, well, yeah. I mean I think that this is in part due to like if you look at Mormon culture or something, right? Like I think a higher number of divorces might be due to them just not talking about this.

Yeah. Especially when BD SME are clearly a big not, not unusual was in Mormon culture. Yeah. Clearly. If you look at the books they're creating like twilight and stuff, I'm like, come on, you guys like I, I know, I know what you guys are about. We see what's

Simone Collins: going on. Yeah. We see what's going on. But what's sad is that there may, like, you may have two BD Maxs married, but because this is such a taboo thing, it's almost like two two gay people in a straight relationship, but like, not realizing they can just be gay together.

You know it,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Simone Collins: Sad.

Malcolm Collins: Why the porn debate Is stupid. In the sex wars, I am increasingly viewing as the successor of the woke wars. Many tender sexual feminists are very upset about how, quote unquote degrading porn is Women are spit on, slapped and choked. How bad and offensive this does look pretty bad if you're tender sexual.

It really does. Gay people looked pretty bad and offensive to heterosexual people for a lot of history. But I think they failed to realize that a large minority of women who are bd sexual for whom BDSM is just a deep part of their sexuality as lesbianism is to lesbians.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And this is more of a female or submissive thing than a male.

I would note here, if you go by a-list statistics on the number of women who would fall into this BD sexual category, uh, it would be way higher than the proportion of men who are born same sex attracted.

Malcolm Collins: Men's sexuality is more responsive to general slutiness, while women are overwhelmingly at least a little into power dynamics. And I noted this before, like men are not as. Captured by this as women are.

Simone Collins: Hmm. So if

Malcolm Collins: I'm putting a graph on screen here, this is how erotic do you find being the sub in females?

You see a huge, extremely here. And, and, and for men, you know, even, even in terms of not, you just don't see it. Like men are just not that they don't care as much.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: How erotic do you find being the dom? With males you find like, so to get an idea, so for women who get really turned on by being the sub, you're looking at near 50%.

For men who like really being the dom, you're looking at 25%.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So it's just a way lower number. And again, this is why I always get so frustrated by people who are like, oh, well, you know, you know, clearly men are forcing this on women. I'm like, look at the stats lady.

Simone Collins: Well, and also it this, just to, to go back to stuff that you cover a lot in the pragmatist guide to Sexuality, this, this makes evolutionary sense.

That men really wouldn't need to care that much about power dynamic because the thing that would ensure their survival was making sure that the thing they had sex with was capable of producing offspring.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And for women you know, you, you would regularly and thing that ensure their

Simone Collins: survival was ensuring that the thing that they had sex with was powerful.

Malcolm Collins: That was And didn't kill them.

Simone Collins: And didn't kill them. I mean

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, no, that's more common than you would think, you know? Yeah, yeah. Given the number of villages that were rated and stuff like that, and we talk about this anyway. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So being, being kind of turned on by the Raider who's coming into your village and, you know, doing naughty things is probably better than you resisting to the death.

Right? Yeah. Well, and I, and I

Malcolm Collins: think that this is in part why you see this instinct in women, as we've seen, to welcome aggressive immigrant populations.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: And pretend like they're a complete non-issue when they, oh my gosh, very clearly are.

Simone Collins: Ooh. That never occurred to me, but you could be onto something there that's dark.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, it, it is dark. They are, they're trying their people and their their future and their potential children, their

Simone Collins: village being rated survival instinct kicking in. Yeah. They're like, oh

Malcolm Collins: yeah,

Simone Collins: come

Malcolm Collins: on Raiders. I'm a, I'm a big fan of Sharia law. Oh my god. You know, so bad. That's so bad. The grooming gangs come on.

It's barely grooming.

Simone Collins: I'm just trying to make it by here. Yeah. Then Ailey

Malcolm Collins: goes on to say, you don't need my grass to know this. Look at the overwhelming popularity of groups like 50 Shades of Gray, or the raunchy rough dominance common in most popular women's erotica.

I always get so frustrated when feminists are like, men are disgusting. Have you seen the weird stuff that they have on their porn sites? And I'm like, excuse me. I've seen the weird stuff you women put in Barnes and Noble. Okay. The the entire monster er aisle., That is not something that you see at the same frequency, even in the male centers of debauchery.

comedy skit: What. What are all these packets in here? I there's no room in the freezer for this, for this ice cream. Why is it blood for? Who's Brad? I thought you were dating a werewolf. Brad's vampire. Brad's, it's a different guy. So now you're dating a vampire. Okay. Um, does he have a home where he can keep his blood food?

Does it have to be in our freezer? Because I want ice cream in my freezer. I don't want blood in my freezer. I'm not being, don't you dare accuse me of being small-minded. I don't. It's my freezer. Does Brad pay for the freezer? No. Whose blood is this? What are all these Um, these charges? They're all for like $70 and it's just a bunch of iron pills.

What for? So Evangeline's back with, um, Brad the Vampire and so I don't think I want to hear this, but we're buying her iron tablets to make sure she doesn't Oh God. Can't we just say don't? Isn't there like a wait till? I don't know. Co never, don't ever, don't ever let a vampire. Okay. Alright. No, I get it.

Like be safe. But also, wow. Brad's a thousand years old. That's right. Yeah. Nope, because I was talking to Evangeline, she was talking about history class and she was talking about the Inquisition and Brad was there. She's dating a thousand year old. I don't care if he doesn't look. A thousand. He's a thousand.

Oh my God. Wait, is Chad Chad's a dog? Is Chad three? This isn't gonna work. This is, I'm being so cool as a dad in so many ways. But if she's dating an a thousand year old and she's also dating a 3-year-old, then we're gonna have to have a sit down as a family to talk about what are we even gonna talk about?

I'm gonna sit down. No, just right here on the floor.

Malcolm Collins: Roughly 80% of women in my data are sexually submissive, which you could say is the default female sexuality, which by the way, is higher than the number of women who are not attracted by women.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm. About 20% of women and about 15% of men are BDSM sex, B

Simone Collins: bd. And

Malcolm Collins: innate with me, deeply oriented towards BDSM. And I note here that this is more common for women than for men. Yes. By a significant margin in her data set.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So if you're a man listening to this and you just don't get it, like Yeah.

It's, it's mostly a woman. Yeah. Because most men are tender

Malcolm Collins: sexual, even though men don't want to hear that this is what men mean when they're like, I just want romance. Romance.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. And when you look at male erotic material, it's slutty, very enthusiastic. Women who just really want it.

Malcolm Collins: They just really want it.

Yeah. They're just like, oh, I just really wish, instead of, you know, the, the average man being like, I just, I. Really wish I could hunt people. Like I don't understand why all you guys are so focused on sex. I just really wish I could hunt people.

Simone Collins: The ultimate sport.

Malcolm Collins: The ultimate sport, yeah. That's most entertaining.

Right? As my data has a slightly inflated kink rates, I'd estimate something closer to 15% of women and 10% of men are b, D sme, BDSM top. My tend men tend to be slightly less polarizing Women, you could say they have higher rates of BDSM bisexuality or switch us, like able to do both roles. Okay. And for more on this particular topic, you can look at my rater.

Versus homesteader, sexual profil in men. Yeah. Where men may have an adaptive sexual profile because the optimal arousal profile when you are raid a village is very different from the optimal arousal profile when you're caring for your wife and kids. Yeah. And so, men and men actually have like two local optimum was most men falling, was in boast.

And because a lot of men learn about their sexuality through pornography, which their brain would see as disposable rated individuals they think of themselves as far more BDS sexual than they really are. And they're actually more tender sexual and long-term relationships. But anyway, in general, women prefer more violent porn than most men do, and she has a citation here, rougher sex than men think they'd like.

This holds true in my data, whether you're measuring my own followers or an anonymous page, survey respondents. And then here she has a, how much of the porn you watch is violent graph. And, and as you can see you know, it's, it's women who are, who are into this. What's also interesting is other than women, who else is really into it?

Trans men. So women with additional stuff. The people who are least into it are cismen. You know, af after trans women are the most into it, then it's women. And then after women, it's trans women. And then cis men are like not into it at all. Like, men are just very, very tender sexual.

And I would note here if you happen to be a man who is, you know, competent and marginally attractive and not a tender sexual, , that's a huge arbitrage on dating markets when you're a young man. , Especially sexual dating marketplaces. You can just absolutely clean up. And I think a lot of my success when I was younger, , in sleeping with lots of people, came down to, , just being non-tender sexual, , and, , being socially competent and normal looking.

Because apparently that's very rare in males and