How Hosts Flip Gender Roles & Mentally Dominate Women

Dive into the fascinating and often misunderstood world of host clubs in East Asia with Malcolm and Simone Collins on Based Camp. What starts as a discussion on flipped dating dynamics—where women pay for male attention—quickly uncovers the darker realities: addiction, sex work pipelines, and psychological manipulation. Drawing from firsthand testimonials and cultural insights, we explore how hosts create obsessive attachments, why these clubs thrive in Japan, Korea, China, and beyond, but flop in the West, and what it reveals about gender psychology, dating strategies, and evolutionary behaviors. From V-Tuber analogies to debunking red pill myths (like the obsession with muscles), this episode is packed with eye-opening stats, analogies to OnlyFans and gambling, and practical advice for modern dating. If you’re into cultural deep dives, relationship dynamics, or just want to understand why women obsess over “Tumblr sexy men,” this is for you!

Subscribe for more unfiltered takes on culture, psychology, and family-building. Check out our book The Pragmatist’s Guide to Crafting Religion for more on these topics.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today I wanted to do something interesting because I was thinking about the concept of host clubs and for fans not familiar with the host club.

A host club is something that’s very popular across East Asia, particularly well known in Japan, but also in Korea, in Taiwan, Taiwan, in Thailand, and in China. Mm-hmm. And it is a club where women go to sort of, experience dating with guys. And the reason I wanted to go deeper into this is because they are an environment where the typical script that we are dealing with in dating is flipped.

Simone Collins: Right? Men

Malcolm Collins: are hyper desirable and the women pay and simp for the male’s attention.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And I wanted to better understand. How this sort of changes, what it means to date the strategies that are used, what strategies are the hosts using to lock down these women? And as I started to dig [00:01:00] into it, I began to realize that the surface level understanding I had of what a host club is, is entirely wrong.

And the understanding that you probably have of what a host club is, is entirely wrong. So, I’ll drop a little stat on you that might help you or reframe the concept of a host club for you. So if you had to guess for what percent of women that visits HOS clubs is sex work, their primary form of income,

Simone Collins: My understanding is it’s fairly high.

So I’d say maybe 30%.

Malcolm Collins: 80%.

Simone Collins: 80%. I, I heard though that, that getting addicted to host clubs is the pipeline to sex work.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. So, host clubs as an industry and the host clubs often manage the female sex work as well.

Simone Collins: Oh, wow.

Malcolm Collins: So the, the men at a host club are sort of like an intermediary form of institutionalized pimp kind of,

Simone Collins: right?

They’re like honey trap [00:02:00] pimps,

Malcolm Collins: sort of, yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The, the, the women go to the host club and, and like, if you’re thinking about the, the pipeline of money for host clubs the hosts themselves are just an intermediary for what is a pipeline that is predominantly female sex work. Given that the, the core income, the money that’s flowing from these women is itself coming from sex work.

So I wanna know, how does this effing happen? How does a woman. End up, and, and a lot of women are fully aware of this as well, starting at a host club, going to a host club and falling into this pipeline, first of all, and I think you, you said something there that’s really important, and it’s something that we’ll get to in this.

It’s host clubs are about creating an addiction. It’s about getting a woman addicted to a host. But what I also learned from reading, because that’s like I wanna read a lot of first person testimonial, not the western patholization of what a host club is, right. And what I [00:03:00] came to understand is that a host club psychologically for the people who engage with it, the women who engage with it, is way, way, way closer.

If, if you’re, if you’re looking at like, what would be an American analogy? Something that you might have experienced with it. Oh, are

Simone Collins: you gonna say gambling addiction?

Malcolm Collins: No.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay.

Malcolm Collins: V tuber addiction.

Simone Collins: What? Oh, interesting. So

Malcolm Collins: specifically, a huge part of the host club is wanting to make your guy like the number one guy in the club.

Yeah, get him to the top of the charts, get him to relevance. Mm-hmm. Very much like the way, if you are unfamiliar with VT tubers, people will have like their oshi or something. Right? Like their, their push. No,

Simone Collins: I didn’t know. So people are playing favorites against v tubers.

Malcolm Collins: Well, so the idea is, is that when you have now this is something that actually comes again from Japanese culture, that even the term Oshi does.

But the idea is, is that you have a group, or not even v YouTuber, YouTubers more [00:04:00] broadly that you are a large fan of and you want them to do better. And to, to outcompete the other YouTubers, the other v tubers. Mm-hmm. In fact, you could say that our job and our relation with our fans is probably more analogous to the relation of most hosts with their guests when contrasted with other American professions.

Hmm. EG. A lot of people, so obviously we don’t have any fans like this. Like we don’t have any fans. And as the gold had actually talked about, whenever a fan tries to give a donation to him of over a certain amount, like a, a push to him of over a certain amount, he always rejects it because these, like bad things can only come from this, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, and he’s says when Female v Tubers have had like fans go crazy and stuff like that, he’s like, they should have rejected the $10,000 donation. You know, they should have known better. Fair enough.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because often these, when you actually dig [00:05:00] into the, the instances in which you get these really huge payouts and everyone’s like, what’s happening here?

Who’s the, you know, the furry who’s commissioning these extremely expensive furry arts and everything like that? It is almost never a wealthy person. Mm-hmm. It is almost always. A person going into debt

Simone Collins: or very often it’s someone stealing from a family member or something like that. When I hear about these often, it’s that they’ve been stealing from like a, a sick grandmother or something.

It’s horrible.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so, but the point being is that when you, and, and this is first of all, very important to understand in this psychology because you could understand these women as victimized or something like that. When you go in and you start watching a v YouTuber who you really like, right?

Mm-hmm. And you may be aware from the little signs on their screen of the dollar amounts, bing, bing, bing going on their screen mm-hmm. That some people are likely donating to them in a way that is financially unsustainable. Yeah. But you watching them, even when you donate to them, if you do, I’ve never donated [00:06:00] to a V YouTuber, but I, I, you know, I we’re sort of in an overlapping profession here.

When you donate to them. You don’t feel like you’re being exploited, right? Like you don’t think that they actually love you. Yes. There’s a few like crazy people who think this but the vast majority of the people who are putting money into that v YouTuber do not feel like they are now, they realize they have a parasocial relationship.

Yeah. They realize that they want the vtr to do well. Yes. They even feel good themselves if they sell the vtr topping the charts. Yes. But like a sports team or something like that. But there is not the direct form of exploitation that we might ex expect from a host. So, before I go further, just I I, I will note also, this isn’t all the time.

Some hosts. Really are a pipeline to just brainwash women, and we’ll get into those hosts and how they operate.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But for other hosts, it’s more like this other pathway. And then you get the addicted women [00:07:00] who are the main source of income for the bar because they’re just spending so much disproportionately on the bar in the same way that like you know, I think it’s something like 80% of the profits in almost any addictive industry, whether it’s gambling or alcohol or cigarettes, come from 20% of the buyers.

But Any thoughts, Simone, before we go further, does this change your, your vision of the, the sanitized host club? We see it, or in a host club or whatever?

Speaker: ケースと

Simone Collins: I’ve listened to some more bleak sometimes slightly disguised first child accounts, firsthand accounts of host club, we’ll say victims. So I. I already kind of expected this.

Well, I’ll note.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, continue.

Simone Collins: I, I find it more akin to OnlyFans men, like men who end up spending a ton on a woman via OnlyFans than I think anything else. [00:08:00]

Malcolm Collins: And then that’s, that’s, that’s pretty good as well as an, as an analogy, like the man isn’t exactly being victimized by the woman on OnlyFans. Mm-hmm.

You know, he knows what it is. She knows what it is. I, I will note here that you do see from after a person leaves the host club world in ecosystem.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They often attempt to reframe it as I was fooled into thinking I was in a real relationship. But when

Simone Collins: I, well, it’s, and it is a little different with these host club relationships because the men often.

Do, I mean, one, there’s the physical connection and two, the men are often texting these women saying, oh, will you come tonight? Well, you know, I’m really, I have to meet this goal. They’re really pressuring me. They, they use much more personalized tactics. No, no, they do. And another

Malcolm Collins: thing that I did not realize about host clubs is it is very common in host clubs for the host to have.

Sexual relations.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: With the client very early in their time together. Mm-hmm. So after, just so is, this is really [00:09:00] fascinating, if you can trust male and female psychology.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Good point. Yeah. Whereas a female who was like an escort or something like that may increase her perceived value to a partner by not sleeping with them for a very long time.

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: And wanting to extract more money before they sleep with them, with women, because women psychologically in print, especially sexually inexperienced women, this is something I experienced a lot back in the day when I was sleeping around. A woman hadn’t slept with anyone. They become like really devoted and obsessed with you.

Often if you’re the first person they sleep with or, and, and it happens less if you’re in like the top two or three people they sleep with. And it is because female brain seems to be, you can watch our videos on how women who have a higher body count, they lose this oxytocin burst, which causes this sort of like involuntary obsession.

But you do see this with women. And so what the host is actually doing here is trying to get to that point as soon as possible. Oh wow. With as little money spent as possible, not the most money spent [00:10:00] as possible.

Simone Collins: That’s wild.

Malcolm Collins: Which is, I think a

Simone Collins: really, ‘cause it’s, it’s more how do you get them hooked And for men you don’t necessarily get hooked after one sexual encounter, whereas with women, that can be very foundational.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Wow. I hadn’t thought about that element of it. That’s really interesting. Yikes.

Malcolm Collins: Rewriting their brain psychologically. So, and then another question we need to answer here is why are host clubs only in East Asia? Why have they never been as successful in the west?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And the answer seems to be, we, we actually do seem to have an answer to this.

Is, is, is, is this is my understanding.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: And it is that a lot of East Asian women have normalized and romanticized western sexual norms and gender dimorphic behavior patterns. Hmm. And the host club allows them to engage in that more. So, [00:11:00] if you look at interviews, it’s sounds like, what was it like a huge chunk, I think it was like 80% of Korean women want to leave the country.

And like, what if they could, as an example? Oh my gosh.

When we do our episode on Korea and when you watch interviews with them. What a lot of them will say is their fantasy is going to a place like New Zealand or Australia or the United States co white, European men and marrying a man in one of those countries.

Mm-hmm. And the reason they have this fantasy is because of the level of misogyny that they believe that they will be treated with if they marry a man was in their own country and was in their own culture. And the, the reason why host clubs do not work in the West is Western men are on average but we just act more like hosts do, I guess you would say.

We are, are nicer to women. And you will see this because as I read through this and you hear the things that hosts say that are almost written about within some of these [00:12:00] sources that I’m gonna be drawing from, a lot of them are, are Asian as if they are diabolical to say this to a woman. And you’ll be thinking that’s a normal thing to say to a woman.

Isn’t it like you look lovely today. I always look forward to talking to you. Tell me about your problems at work. The porn for women from 30 Rock.

Speaker 2: Hello there. Well, hello. How was your day? Do you need to talk because I’ll just listen patiently and say things like, . She’s clearly jealous of you and Well, it’s his loss. You are a great woman. Do you deserve a great man for just 24 95 an hour? Yes, please. It’s the yellow button, sweetie.

Malcolm Collins: But the reality is, is that western men yeah, there’s like a small portion of like super misogynistic western men who like train themselves to not act like this.

But historically, and, and, and in modern, even in a modern parlance western men, this is, this is the way that we [00:13:00] are raised to treat women. And so, there’s less of an appeal for that. If there was a, a bar where there are a bunch of male waiters who said that stuff to women in the United States women would just be like, but I can get this from any stamp.

But, you know, like, yeah, why you here? But anyway, to continue. At the most basic level, the hosts are young men who provide pseudo romance to multiple women for sometimes exorbitant amounts of money. A host club visit is expensive and can cost around $30 per hour. Per hour. But this does not include drinks, which are often sold by the bottle, was a huge markup.

The club where I carried out the bulk of my research charged, 80 pounds per bottle of alcohol that would cost 10 pounds at a supermarket. This is what makes bills jump. Women often compete for their hosts attention by buying more bottles of alcohol. And it’s this system of picking favorites that is the lifeblood of the host club.

So very, very interesting here, right? Like, what you’re seeing. It is a few phenomenon at [00:14:00] play. First, the male host value is artificially augmented upwards for the women because they see other women competing over this individual. Mm-hmm. And you know, the, the chef principle, I don’t even think I’m gonna bother putting in the cliff here,

Speaker: What’s the garlic effect? The law of physics that states, if one girl screams for something, it will make other girls scream and then it grows exponentially until all girls within a five mile radius of screaming.

So how do boy bands use that? All they do is make videos showing tons and tons of girls screaming for the boy bands. Once you get girls screaming, you can’t stop ‘em. They’re crazy.

Malcolm Collins: where if women see a bunch of women screaming over a guy they, there’s actually great studies on this, so, women will find men more attractive and be more likely to approach them if they have a wedding ring on.

Now that’s an odd effect. Why do women do that? It seems like that’s diabolical

Simone Collins: because women are terrible.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, women are terrible.

Speaker: [00:15:00] the lady has foolishly attempted to join the conversation with a wild and dangerous opinion of her own. See how the men look at her with utter contempt.

Women, know your limits.

Malcolm Collins: No, but it’s because well, I mean, one, you,

Simone Collins: well, it, it’s for the, it really realistically, women do this for the same reason. Why employers love to hire people from Harvard or Stanford or Yale or some fancy Ivy League because they know that someone else who allegedly, probably did their homework, thought them worth accepting.

And so they are pre-vetted and that’s, I think it.

Malcolm Collins: But I think that there’s a, a, a bit more to it than that

Simone Collins: really.

Malcolm Collins: When a woman is choosing a mate which is what they are doing in this context they are saying okay, w what out of all of the males that I can see or may have access to, especially if they have already given up on the idea of having exclusive access to a male, which basically, you know, [00:16:00] biologically a woman at a host club has, she knows she doesn’t have exclusive access to these males.

So, she’s saying her body’s saying which of these males is going to produce a, a male child, for example, because 50% chance of child to male that women are going to want, right? And so if you see other women want. That person’s genes, you can assume that they will also want the genes of your child.

Hmm. And, and so this creates that phenomenon and, and something you can think here is how, how can you as a male out there dating, create this person that

Simone Collins: dynamic? Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And it’s also part of what causes the sort of like. Flood of partners once you begin to get a few partners. There was somebody in the comments who was like, oh, we all know Malcolm didn’t actually sleep around a lot, and Simone, you’ve like met my friends growing up.

Like that’s a comical statement.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But I can understand why people feel that way because Oh

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They have [00:17:00] perceptions around what it looks like to be somebody who has an easy time getting

Simone Collins: a girl. Well, and there’s also just the general adage of if, you know, someone is conspicuously talking about like, oh, you know how wealthy they are, you know, maybe they’re not actually that wealthy, that kind of stuff.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. But the the. One of the phenomenons that was probably most in my favor and in play in my favor was in the environments where I found it very easy to sleep with lots of people was they knew I slept with lots of people. And they knew that I was considered highly desirable and that my time was considered highly desirable.

And because of that, it, it’s a, it’s a, you know, a rich get richer just because they’re already rich, right? Mm-hmm. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s like, you know, if a super rich person makes a bunch of money in a day or whatever, you’re not like, oh, wow, you must have been such a genius, right? It’s, it’s like, okay, well now you’re already at a stage, like once you get past 15 or something, it, it just becomes trivially [00:18:00] easy at that point.

It’s the same way, you know, once you get past your first 500 million or something, you’re like, okay, now it’s just coasting at this point.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Speaker 14: More women you sleep with, the more numb you become to them. Ironically, that numbness actually makes you more attractive to certain women because you finally act attached and calm around them. So you end up in this weird loop because you get laid so often, you stop caring as much, and because you don’t care as much, you get laid even more

Malcolm Collins: and that’s, that’s part of what we’re seeing was in this phenomenon. Mm-hmm. But to continue. The first visit resembles a speed dating event. You talk to a new host every 10 to 15 minutes, and at the end of the hour you are encouraged to choose one to invite back to your table for a longer conversation.

From then on, he is your sheme or designated host. Wherever you go in the club, he is the one you talk to. It is a permanent relationship. It relies on the host not just being attentive to his customer’s likes and dislikes, but also on his ability to mold himself into what she is looking for that [00:19:00] evening.

He is responsible for her emotional wellbeing and enjoyment for the hour or two, she’s in the club. So this is really interesting here. And it makes,

Simone Collins: don’t you have to sign a contract after the first night with one too?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So they often sign contracts being like, I won’t go to other clubs. I won’t visit other sheme.

I won’t, you

Simone Collins: know? Yeah. Like you’re exclusive with them after that point. Yeah, and no, no other man at that club. Can walk up to you after that point you belong to him.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Which is really interesting, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. ‘cause

Malcolm Collins: And you don’t see this in the male to female direction, right? Like,

Simone Collins: and you don’t hear about this happening, say at strip clubs in the United States.

Malcolm Collins: Right. And it has to do with relationship. I think from an evolutionary standpoint the idea of a multi-party harem in, in, in, in nature, like in tribes and stuff like that mm-hmm. Is something you actually see very frequently across human populations and is part of our evolved biology. Now it’s pretty rare for a successful cultural group to adapt this, but [00:20:00] it was much more common in East Asia than it was in, in the west specifically.

In Europe cultures that adopted this were typically outcompeted by cultures that didn’t adopt it. Whereas in East Asia you don’t see that as much. You do see a slight trend of cultures that are more monogamous to outcompete. One is that aren’t, but you still see some non-monogamous cultures succeeding.

But in these non monogamous cultures, it is always multiple women to one male, never multiple males to one female. Women really prefer even when a guy has other partners that they have one male, and this makes sense because in, in that context, at least somebody has some reason to share resources with you when you, when you get pregnant, right?

Like, there, there is at least some understanding of fraternity. If there are multiple males, there is no reason for anyone to invest in you except for your already biological relatives. And in the rare tribes where a woman just does sleep around randomly with whoever she feels like it the role of father is typically taken on by her brother.

Because that is the, the male in the [00:21:00] tribe who has the most certainty that he is a biological relative to that child.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which I think is really fascinating.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Now I’m gonna actually go here, I’m gonna skip to something. I had grabbed later because I wanted to go into what an actual host said.

Like, how does he secure partners?

Simone Collins: Ooh,

Malcolm Collins: this is, this is actually translated from Japanese, so it’s, you’re getting straight to the source here. Okay. All right.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: An exfo too. So you, this isn’t even like he was interviewed or something, right? Yeah. This is just like what I do. And his picture was very hosty.

He looked like a host club member.

Simone Collins: What, like androgynous ish? Yeah. With spiky hair

Malcolm Collins: was like the glow filter that hosts used.

Simone Collins: Oh my God. Yeah. I feel like that this comes from URA booths, you know, like print, print club, those little arcade games where you used to take photos. They like all had that glow filter.

It’s such a thing.

Malcolm Collins: I, I could only imagine like the horror of a strip club guy goes, and the one’s like, okay, you’re signing a contract [00:22:00] saying you’re never gonna go to any other strip club. You’re only gonna see me when you’re here. A guy

Simone Collins: would be like, of mine would be like, yeah, no,

Malcolm Collins: no, I’m not sure I’m interested in this arrangement.

Simone Collins: Oh, bye. Okay, bye.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. When it comes to hosting, there are tons of things to keep in mind, but among them, the most important is remembering things when interacting with lots of girls. Is impossible to keep everything in your head. Mm. So I made a conscious effort to take notes on the info I drew out of each girl and memorize it.

People won’t take an interest in you unless you show an interest in them. Mm-hmm. You see what I said? Diabolical.

Simone Collins: That’s really good. And it’s, it’s not discussed enough among say, red pillars who want to spin a lot of plates, who wanna have a lot of sidekicks of like. Really maximizing their addiction to the men because their approach is all just disregard, maintain frame, play the dread game.

Like [00:23:00] make them feel like you’re just gonna leave them at any moment. Whereas he is showing more the carrot approach, which is show that you’re the one person who understands them and listens to them and oh my God, it’s not hard. Yeah. I think that this is

Malcolm Collins: so, so,

Simone Collins: underrated and

Malcolm Collins: it’s something that is really the failure of the dread game.

Yeah. The dread game is very, very good to play if you are looking for one off sexual encounters.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: If you are looking to get people who are addicted and obsessed with you the dread game is a lot less effective. And that’s the point of the host. Right. And you’re actually looking for something of an inversion of the dread game here,

And this is where men who follow the dread game or fall into, , all of this, you know, sort of overly misogynistic red pill stuff. Get a wrong perception of women that completely screws up their ability to date. They’re like, Malcolm, are you telling me, I, I’ve seen that women go [00:24:00] crazy over like male murderers who get sent to prison and all of these terrible men and everything like that who’ve done these terrible things.

You’re telling me that they like it when a guy pays attention to them and remember things about them and acts like he cares about them. And I’m like, wait, wait, wait. Do you notice that nothing you just said is contradictory to what we’re talking about here? Do you think these host club men who are manipulating women and women know that these men professionally manipulate women into becoming essentially smec slaves?

, And then sell them out so that they can pay them, so that they can win their little. You think these are nice guys? You think these are good guys in a women’s mind? No. Oh God, no. When you look at the, , when I say, oh, women aren’t really into muscular guys that much. If you look at the guys that women obsess over on, say, Tumblr, and people say, oh, oh, these these tall, skinny top hat guys that they all like on Tumblr, they must be All Saints.

I’m like, oh no, they’re, they’re usually like demons and mass murderers [00:25:00] and the destroyers of the environment. They’re not nice. They’re not nice at all. You have confused your perception. Of masculine ruthlessness with the ideal female perception of masculine ruthlessness.

Malcolm Collins: And a lot of men.

Well, we’ll, we’ll read through the full thing first. Yeah. And I think you’ll see like, wait, is that really, is that how this insidious thing is done? So, he goes, if you ask about something you heard in the past all over again, it makes it feel like you have no interest in them, which is a total turnoff.

So before reading up, review your notes to avoid asking the same things. Mm-hmm. And careful about that. With the info you’ve gathered, you can decide on presence, sales approaches, aftercare, offsite plans, and so on. So. A few things to note here. One thing that is very common among hosts, which you would not see as hookers, is offsite activities.

Now, we noted that they often have sex with their, the, the, the people who they’re seeing. But they will also do things like go to Disney World, go to [00:26:00] bakeries.

Simone Collins: Oh my gosh. What?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Do typical romance take

Simone Collins: you on dates?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Take you on dates in a very stereotypically romantic fashion. Right. And the

Simone Collins: other no.

This, this is much more resembles the acts. This is so odd to say, but of a. A salesperson, a corporate salesperson.

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: Like, I’m gonna take you to a Mets game. I’m gonna take you to, and on a hunting trip or on a, you know, to the ni a nice restaurant because it’s building that relationship and that like favoritism above and beyond logic.

That’s so interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And something else that’s really fascinating here is that they what was I, what was I saying? That they very important. It’s not just to remember her interests. Right. Like, I think a lot of guys, they’re like, okay, I need to remember her interests. Mm-hmm. But no, you have to remember the conversations you have used with her in the past.

Mm. ‘cause if you are talking and hitting up lots of girls at [00:27:00] once, which, you know, back when I used to flirt a lot, I would do, I would try to have a policy of always be talking to, on any given night, like at least three girls at a time. And this was through multiple chat threads. Mm-hmm. And you can easily develop, sort of go-to questions to advance the either the relationship or just to, you know, for interaction and end up using your go-to questions more than once with one girl.

And any guy who has practiced high throughput dating is very aware of this. Mm-hmm. W you for example, Simone, did you notice me ever accidentally asking you the same go-to question twice early in our

Simone Collins: relationship? Never. Never.

Malcolm Collins: Because I took notes. And a lot of guys don’t do this. They don’t take time to take notes.

Right. So to continue here, if you ask about something you heard sorry. Before meeting up, review your notes to avoid asking the same things and be careful about that. And I’ll note here with Simone, the day that I went on a date with her, that was my second date that day, right? Like I was [00:28:00] doing extremely high throughput dating.

Now, ironically, so was she, that was her second date that day as well. We were, it was, we were in it to win it in terms of finding a, a marriage partner. Yeah, or you were just looking for someone to have sex with for the first time. But I was looking for a marriage partner back then. But we were both completely like, we have to make this happen.

And that requires extremely high throughputs, right? Mm-hmm. Which unfortunately for this generation aren’t as possible. And they need to develop new strategies on how to achieve that and to create these psychological framings, like the ones that the host do. So for me, I was able to create high throughput because on dating apps back then, if you just reached out to a lot of people, you could get a bunch of people reaching out to you.

That’s not the case anymore. You swipe right all week and you’re gonna get one or two matches. Right.

Simone Collins: Terrible. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So you need an environment where you can have directed outreach like direct emails, direct LinkedIn, like et cetera. Like if I was dating today, that’s

Simone Collins: probably no this’s. Why a lot of, yeah, a lot of people.

[00:29:00] Well, I feel like five years ago people used X and LinkedIn a lot. I bet they still are. But honestly, I feel that the bigger trend now is people are just giving up.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The bigger true now is people are just giving up. Yeah. Which is sad. I, I’ll tell you what, I’d never give up. I’m, I was obsessive about this stuff.

I mean, keep in mind the, the things I did back in the day the, the, the core thing I did to like get good was the reason I would always run a few chats at a time and have to be very careful about not repeating things is because I used basically pre-written text blocks with minor variations to fit that individual conversation.

To try to build was like a statistical probability in my mind. Now, I didn’t like write out the statistical probability. It was more just like, get a feel. Okay. This chain always leads to this chain, always leads to this to sort of build branching conversational pathways that I could reliably steer [00:30:00] to certain in states that I was looking for.

Hmm. And there really is only so much, like once you’ve run mass conversations over and over and over and over again, you realize pretty quickly that I mean humans are a lot like ais, right? Like, they are fairly predictable, especially Normies. And there’s a lot of normie girls and girls are even more predictable than males, right?

So as soon as you figure out the standard operating pattern and you then figure out the type that you’re dealing with, because girls fall into like a few archetypes goal types, desire types you can quickly predict whatever is going to come next if you have a high amount of pattern matching in the past to continue here.

With the info that you’ve gathered, you can decide on presence, sales approaches. Okay. Aftercare, we just talked about that. I think it’s really interesting how you, it’s like, it’s like sales. Mm-hmm. If you just bombed with questions, it starts feeling pretty transactional. So you’ve gotta watch for that.

Mm-hmm. The info you draw out of her is forgetting them to know you [00:31:00] are and deepening your relationship. So share about yourself too. Like if you ask their favorite food, then share your favorite food as well. Something like that, and expand the conversation from there. Mm-hmm. And so he says the key pipeline works like this.

Show interest, draw info out, get them to show interest, give info. Mm-hmm. Remember, take notes. He says if you can e these three things thoroughly, you’ll sell to some extent. Yeah. So try so give it a try as a reference.

Simone Collins: Not rocket science people, but, oh my God, Malcolm. I. In my, in my, well admittedly brief experience dating before I met you.

You’re the only person who bothered to do that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Did the, did any of the other guys, I think a lot of guys are like, oh, a lot of guys really do this. And it’s like, no, a lot of guys really

Simone Collins: don’t do this. No, they really don’t. And this is why also as parents, and I think this is important, even more important as far as we’re concerned, and many of the people listening, perhaps you can [00:32:00] give your kids such a huge advantage.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: If you just teach them this and basic etiquette. Just like, because it, it, it’s not just, especially if it’s a young man, it’s not just that it signals that they are gentlemanly in a very romantic way. It also implies that they’re wealthy, even though that’s, it can be somewhat subconscious, but it’s this subconscious signaler of wealth that would even without explicitly communicating to women, or even if you tell a young woman like, Hey, I’m broke.

I literally have no money. She will still subconsciously see you and code you as wealthy if you have basic etiquette and like this social intelligence to ask questions and engage in real conversation. So,

Malcolm Collins: so this is

Simone Collins: actually

Malcolm Collins: incredibly important because when you say this, admin can be like, oh, come on, that, that can’t be that easy to work.

Look at the way it’s that male. That’s that easy post dress. [00:33:00] Okay. No, like pull up, I’ll put some pictures on screen here.

Okay. What minute a host club dress, like, and what they dress like is well groomed button down shirts

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And suits. Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: Often

Malcolm Collins: ties often.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Bow ties.

Simone Collins: Yeah. They’re not dressed comfortably for them.

Malcolm Collins: Usually

Simone Collins: that’s, and that’s the, the, the, the, so, you know, like women, like the, the male equivalent of a stripper woman or like a woman dressed as a call girl, like go, go boots, mini skirt, pushup bra, whatever. Right. A suit and a tie, like this is male lingerie. Can’t emphasize this enough. A man in a well-tailored suit is the sexiest thing.

And I know it’s maximum clothing, but like, and this is obviously, it’s, it’s interestingly so reversed. If you look at like a gay dating app, all you see is like six pack torsos, like just cut off the head. We don’t need to see the face. Like, just show me your abs and your [00:34:00] muscles. But for women it is like, no, just cut off the face.

Just show me the tailored suit. It’s,

Malcolm Collins: well, and it’s not just that. If you look at the host, they are trained to be incredibly well-mannered. Mm-hmm. Manners are incredibly important in securing a partner. And if you, well,

Simone Collins: this, I think you can also tell that this is a genuine signal that is irresistible to women.

When you look at. Periods in history where you see a huge spike in romance, novel, historical romance, novel settings. And this is why, for example, the Regency era is so popular, is you had not only a preponderance of manners, but a very organized and active society in which people got together to show off those manners.

It was like this unique peak in human history where that happened a lot. So it just goes to show like women love this and they will, they will jump to, to fantasize in periods of [00:35:00] history where it is. More likely to be shown because they just wanna sit in that, in that moment.

Malcolm Collins: And I think that for guys who didn’t grow up in an environment where they were taught manners

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: They can hear this and be like, well, where do I learn this? You know, go to ai go, go online. Research common manners, and keep in mind the manners that are going to impress the woman the most are the manners that are directed towards women. So easy ones that I’m always surprised there is one that I explicitly don’t do because I think it comes off as weird but all, oh, standing up

Simone Collins: when she stands up,

Malcolm Collins: standing up at the table whenever a woman stands up, that one to me comes off as too much.

But opening car doors for women is what like, a lot of people remember to open other doors, but when you’re walking to a car because you’re opening your own door, a lot of people don’t remember, oh, I need to run to the passenger side first and get her door. Mm-hmm. Close it, then get my door.

Simone Collins: Well, so.

My, one of my favorite books of all time is the Emily Post, like 1942 edition. No guy

Malcolm Collins: is going to read that.

Simone Collins: I know, I’m aware of that. I’m just going to say what she says in it because she’s [00:36:00] very, she’s very no-nonsense and pragmatic about etiquette, which I think a lot of people wouldn’t expect. And you’re describing like performative post sense, cotillion etiquette, you know, stand up when the woman stands up.

It’s really stupid and it’s based on old traditions that don’t actually make sense. What Emily post trains people in and what you really should be looking at is what I would call functional etiquette, which is just making, you could say human commerce or like human interaction or people’s lives easier, more transparent and more comfortable.

So it’s not about doing things in a performative manner, it’s about actually making someone’s life more pleasant and easy. It’s about clear communication. It’s about reducing stress and friction. So doing things like opening doors for people is, is nice ‘cause it makes their lives easier. It’s just a nice Yes.

Malcolm Collins: But I think you’re forgetting that a part of this goes back to what you originally said was it is a subtle and subconscious indicator to women of wealth [00:37:00] and desirability. Yeah. And class status. Yeah. So even the pointless ones, like a good example of a pointless one that’s not really relevant anymore.

But women do notice is that you always walk street side whenever you’re walking on a sidewalk with him. And it’s important to also understand why you’re doing things. Because if a woman asks you, why are you doing this? And you explain, oh, I do it. Because historically when carriages would rise through sewage, which was on the street, it could splash the woman.

Mm-hmm. And so men traditionally walk on this side of a woman, and a woman appreciates that because you’re showing more than just like rote class, but knowledge that comes with class. Right.

Simone Collins: Well, also def fenestrated excrement was more likely to fall a little bit further from buildings.

Malcolm Collins: The, the secondary thing.

And even your feminist who say, oh, I don’t like, I don’t like being treated this way. They like it. They, they like things like that. They like,

Simone Collins: yeah. A lot of men, I, I’ve only, I’ve seen it complained about more men saying, oh, I hold a door open and the woman [00:38:00] rolls her eyes and say, I can do that. But I’ve never seen that happen.

I’ve, and both men and women, ‘cause I hold doors for people all the time are always like, thank you. Like, they genuinely appreciate it. ‘cause as much as I, I am the ultimate hater of opening doors, which is why I bother to hold them. Like if I, if I went through the trauma of opening a door, damn straight, I’m holding it for like the next 10 people.

I’m gonna get maximum power.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. No, I, now I wanna go back to what we were talking about earlier because I think it’s another important thing that men get wrong in dating today.

Simone Collins: Ooh,

Malcolm Collins: okay. We’ve shown you how host dress, Simone. How was I dressed on our first date when I was looking for a wife? What, what was I wearing?

Simone Collins: You were wearing a button down Brooks Brothers shirt with a tie and a vest from Fair Gamo.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. That is, that is correct. That that was what I, you don’t need to mention the brands, I’m sure. Did you notice the brands when you first saw me?

Simone Collins: [00:39:00] No, I didn’t know, like you introduced me to Farma as a brand. I

Malcolm Collins: didn’t I mean, I don’t wear anything fancy now.

I only wear fancy things when I was trying to attract a partner. But that’s the thing that the, the, the the peacocking one is the one saying they’re gonna be doing less in the relationship and I definitely pull less weight than you in this relationship. But the point being is if you take away the brand names, what I was wearing was a pressed button down.

Nice. Shirt whi a tie and a vest and matching suit pants to that vest. I think you were

Simone Collins: wearing jeans actually.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I might’ve been wearing jeans that day. Okay. Yeah. The Texas

Simone Collins: tucks. That’s your culture, Malcolm. Respect

Malcolm Collins: it. My culture. Right. But the later after that, I, I, there was a period where I usually wore suit pants.

But anyway, the point being is that when I was trying to attract a partner for ts, I didn’t dress like this. No. The outfit that you have seen me wear on the show is one that I adopted because it’s utilitarian and dad like

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: The typical you know, button down collar. And I wore that [00:40:00] specifically because of what I was trying to present to the audience I’m selling to which is the Mr.

Rogers look is what I was going to. But then I realized it came off too lesbian ish because lesbians have

Simone Collins: appropriated

Malcolm Collins: it. Yeah. Now appropriated the dad look. And so now I’m trying to go for something more medieval, similar to Simone’s. I haven’t got my medieval jacket yet, but I’ve got my, medieval style top at this point that I’m gonna be able to wear with the it’d be clear.

It’s

Simone Collins: not a jacket, it’s a gamson.

Malcolm Collins: The medieval makes it cooler. Yeah, it’s a, it’s a, it’s like a armor thing that I’ll be wearing on shows. So now Simone and I, she, she had the Top Armor thing right here, and I’ll have a

Simone Collins: It’s armor thing. Yeah. This is like a, just a neck based gambon. Gamons are multilayered, sometimes filled with extra wool padded garments that existed more widespread before chain mail, but we’re we’re often worn under chain mail.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So I’ll be weari