Are "Trad Wives" Just E-Girls?

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive into the juicy scandals rocking the trad wife and trad husband movements. From Sarah Stock’s alleged affair with Elijah Schaeffer (while preaching purity and getting a papal blessing) to Schaeffer’s epic meltdown, we unpack the hypocrisy, grifts, and red flags in conservative influencer circles. We explore why these “moral police” often crash out, cultural differences in sexuality (Catholic vs. Protestant vibes), and tips for spotting authentic people vs. fakers. Plus, our take on why peacocking signals low investment in relationships and how to avoid dead bedrooms or unfaithful partners. If you love drama with a side of cultural analysis, this episode is a must-watch!

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be going over the tire fire that has become the trad wife movement, the trad husband movement recently with some big, big scandals in it that are very entertaining. I, I went into these scandals and I was like, Ooh, this is just so juicy.

You know, you see people being bad and then the bad people get their come up ins and everything falls apart for them, and they go crazy, and you’re just loving every step of it because they were so inauthentic and terrible to begin with. Yeah. And then your, your friends come in the, the, the other weird random conservatives like Milo was inside gossip you know, still, still playing that role.

And then you get even on the, base camp subreddit, one of the posts and I’ll, I’ll I’ll play it, is like showing what trad wives are actually like, and it’s like the, the,’

Speaker: Oh, thank you, brother. God bless you, dude. She’s the [00:01:00] real deal. Men of honor deserve women of virtue. She’s perfect, bro. Ugh, another easy. 600 trad queen’s got to eat so pure bro. Look at her prey hands. Sending 50 worth it. Three roses. She’ll notice me for sure. Where’s your heart, Jake? You’re such a gentleman.

Y’all are such blessings. Back to the garden now. Trad wife cosplay. Every night across living rooms like this, young conservative men embark on a sacred ritual. Sipping their muse. A virtuous bread baking tread. Angel on livestream. Aw. Thank you brothers.

Malcolm Collins: the trad wife influencers are often just really e thoughts that are dressing up like trad wives and manipulating men with fake personas no more than the, the, you know, girl who decides she’s gonna dress up like a goth and like bounce her tatas around to try to get donations, right?

Simone Collins: Like it’s, and that’s what’s so funny is that people seem to think that women who engage in this is this form of very conspicuous signaling are are trad wifes. Like if, if you’re a trad wife, you’re someone who lives in very deep alignment with [00:02:00] their goals and is probably not very online. And someone who invests very heavily in signaling.

Is, is is very much going against what it means to be a trad wife. And we talked about this a little bit in the peacocking episode. The TLDR of it is if someone is signaling or peacocking in a way where they’re really trying to show like, my appearance is expensive and, and, and like I’m trying to catch your attention as a reproductive mate, it’s typically because they expect to invest disproportionately a little in your relationship, in your child rearing.

So you don’t wanna go after someone who’s very made up, who’s peacocking. Yeah. Because you’re not gonna be there for you. The very definition of a tra wife, I mean like functionally, is that a trad wife is someone who really shows up for the marriage. They’re going to be homeschooling the kid, they’re gonna be cooking all the dinners, they’re gonna be doing all the work.

Possibly also while making an income. And I do think that people like Hannah Neman really are bringing everything to the relationship,

Malcolm Collins: but I don’t think that she dressed like a trad wife when he met [00:03:00] her. I don’t think that she put on the trad wife persona when he met her. I think the, what I’ve seen of the women who become good trad wives is that they are not trad wives when their husbands start dating them.

Yeah. They don’t present that way. They don’t act that way. Okay. It’s a persona they pick up later because they want to contribute to the relationship as much as they possibly can.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So let’s get into the drama. Okay.

Okay.

Simone Collins: Yes. Mm.

Malcolm Collins: So Will Secka lived a quiet life rooted in face and political activism until allegations against his wife Sarah Stock pulled him into a viral storm as claims of an affair was Elijah Schaefer spread online.

Minnie began asking who he is and how he became central to this controversy. Sarah Stock and Elijah s Schiffer’s affair allegations have rocked not only turning points USA fans, but also brought her husband will seka into the spotlight. In conservative influencer spaces, image is everything.

Faith, marriage, modesty, and traditional values often form the [00:04:00] backbone of personal branding. That is why the recent controversy surrounding stock now Cska has drawn such intense online attention. Allegations of an affair was conservative. Commentator Elijah Schafer have not only put her reputation under scrutiny, but have also pulled her husband will seka into the spotlight.

He never sought as social media debates, hypocrisy, morality. Many are asking the simpler question. Who is will Seka the man at the center of the storm created by claims about his wife’s past actions. All right, so a whirlwind romance went viral. Sarah Stock and Will SKAs engagement in August, 2025 was widely shared across social media.

Sarah posted pictures of her ring in fields of flowers while speaking about purity, waiting for marriage and traditional courtship. The wedding in January, 2026 gained even more attention when the couple shared photographs from the Vatican after receiving Papal blessing from Pope [00:05:00] Leo the 14th. There’s Latin numbers there dressed in bridal attire.

The images quickly spread online, and here they have a post from Milo where he says, let’s start with Sarah Stock. So he’s releasing private images of messages he had with her

Simone Collins: wait right after she got married.

Malcolm Collins: And so he says if your husband doesn’t know, now is the time. I understand

you won’t see it like this for a long time, but as you can see from above, it is better for everyone that things come out in one burst today instead of metastasizing over weeks. Don’t let him find out from, it’s somebody else. So first, I like that Milo has the chill correct take on this. You, you, you cheated.

Tell your husband now make, make this a thing between you guys and stop this. Right? But no, she wanted to keep cheating is basically what we learned. And if she told him, she wouldn’t be able to. So, and [00:06:00] also Milo was a bro and not releasing all of this until after all of this goes viral, right? Like after it’s all public.

He kept your secret for a long time. So he goes on to say, in February, 2025, Sarah Stock and Elijah Schaeffer began sleeping together. The affair entered on the day she got engaged about six months later. In that time, they experienced multiple pregnancy scares. It’s alleged by one former acquaintance that Sarah got at least one abortion.

Oh my God,

Simone Collins: this

Malcolm Collins: is horrible. I’m telling Catholic sarah captioned one post saying she highly recommended, getting a marriage blessed by the Pope.

At the time, the images were praised as a symbol of devotion and face in hindsight’s. Critics now view the timing of these posts through a very different lens when she’s still sleeping with other other guy. Okay, so a lith chauffeur and Sure. Stocks scandal, all allegation shock. The internet. The controversy erupted after claims circulated online that Sarah had a months long [00:07:00] affair with Eliza Chauffeur, her former boss at RIF tv.

The claims are amplified by Post Michael Opolis. Yeah, her boss.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: how Chad, right.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: And the claims were amplified by posts from Milo Gianopoulos, who alleged that their relationship began in early 2025 and overlaps with her courtship of will. He says, Milo says here, I’m in touch with Elijah. I told him to get off the internet for a couple weeks and go to rehab.

It’s better for everyone to just rip the bandaid off. So I’ll share with you over the next few hours the info doing the rounds in private, at least what I’ve been able to confirm. So I’m getting the full images here so we can get the full text here. I’ve seen a dossier, someone put together.

Everything is coming out. My advice is to check yourself into as a facility sooner rather than later. There may be a life for you after this, but it’s going to depend on being totally honest about all the details and it’s going to require sympathy. As far as I [00:08:00] can see, drug addiction is the only card you have left to play.

If I were you, I would go out of my way to be a generous and decent with the wife and kids. This cross filing in other states for divorce is insultingly, childish and stupid. He also, by the way, crashed out on his wife. Observers will be asking, haven’t you put the poor B through enough? The investors don’t matter.

If they met you and still wrote a check that’s on them, I’m sure it’ll be a while before you are ready to start putting your life back together, but when you are, I will be there to help you. I’ve been trying to signal to you for the past year or so to cut off the BS and talk to me. I was hoping everybody could avoid this.

You may wish to be offline for the next week or two. And he goes, what do you mean cease and desisting people right now? But I got my car back, so that’s good. He, Milo then says, are you stupid? And the other guy goes, what do you mean? Wait, I’m just seeing the top of this. Hey man, I’m going through some [00:09:00] tough things.

Can you help me out here? What dossier shot you? A call your tweets. And then Milo says, in response, your tweets have been so erratic and insane. People are asking if you killed your family. There are the dossier being circulated that reveals all the details about the rifs collapse. Your drinking slash substance abuse, the affair with Sarah stock treatment of your wife, sexual habits and perversions, alleged prostitution.

Your wife’s filing for divorce and then your. Filing back in different states so you can make it out that you dumped her. It’s safe to assume everything in your life is about to hit the internet. Starting in at the beginning of my text, now that you know this you won’t take it, but I’m very strong advice is that you get off the internet for two weeks and check into rehab and be very effing nice to your wife.

Whether or not you have a professional future depends on it. Nobody believes this horse. S you’re posting about your car. Either you got away with being manic for a while, but the bill is now due. You are a very poor liar. It is not your forte. You should [00:10:00] find another profession, one in which you tell the truth.

Oh my God, for one, I love Milo being so sane. I mean, it is kind of slimy that he put all of this public, but also, you know, this guy is being an a-hole right now. Like, I do not feel sympathy for him. And you’ll feel less sympathy as the story go. It’s on.

Sarah stock, and now we’re, we’re going to another tweet. This is from Buckaroo Sarah Stock called other women w****s and sluts while she cheated on her fiance multiple times, despite a blessing from the Pope himself and her being a quote unquote Catholic and then allegedly had an abortion due to cheating.

And then they have a, a Nick Fuentes clip of him just being like.

Leaked audio clips and social media threads suggests that Sarah had confessed to the affair privately, while publicly maintaining an image of purity and traditional [00:11:00] values. And this I find the Nick Pointes saying ironic because the, the underground rumors I hear in right wing circles as he sleeps around with women all the time, he just pretends to be celibate.

Which. I think it’s, you know, better than the, it being true that he’s gay, right? Like especially given his, his public image. Not, not that it’s worse to sleep around than be gay. I just think that it would hurt his reputation less if that was true. And it does sort of explain why he’s in no hurry at all to get married.

Because, you know, as a straight guy, that’s very confusing to you, right? Like if I was a straight guy and I believe the things Nick Fuentes did about stuff like masturbation, I would be constantly desperate to get married. It makes no sense. And he has women that are just like, I will marry you if you’re, he has an entire community of fan girls, right?

Like, this is what I’m talking about when I talk about hypocrisy a among parts of this circle. And what I want to end this with is like, how do you tell the hypocrites from the non hypocrites? And for me, yeah. I’m gonna be honest, I think it’s [00:12:00] super easy.

Simone Collins: Okay, so what’s your secret?

Malcolm Collins: The hypocrites are the hierarchical deontological types mm-hmm.

Who are really obsessed with proper form yeah. Signaling. So examples would be Steve Bannon, so I’m not just putting this on the, the Catholic creators who recently came out as having been Epstein’s best bro. And after it came out that he’s like molesting kids, is trying to put out this big feature leaf documentary, revitalizing his image, showing he’s not that bad.

A guy recreating his branding. Like clearly he put a lot of effort into this and a lot of money into helping Epstein. Not good,

Simone Collins: not good.

Malcolm Collins: After, after the allegations were clear, specifically trying to make the allegations disappear. Wow. So, you know, I, I think that, that this sort of type, and you see this in the conservative circle, everybody knows what we’re talking about.

This is what, what defined the old GOP, right? Right. If you look at the new right creators. Is anything scandalous ever gonna come out about, like, say, asthma, gold or leaflet? No, I, I would be [00:13:00] astonished. Like genuinely astonished. Yeah. If a, if, if it turned out that asthma gold was doing something horrible, like sleep, sleeping around a bunch or something like that or treating women really poorly or if it came out that leaflet acted in a horrible way, I’d be like, what are you, or Kirsha, I would be shocked if Kirsha she’d never, and I think even Keisha’s Catholic, right?

So I’m not even just saying like, you know, I know she’s got that big Bostonian accent. So I, I always assume in my head when I hear the, the, the Bostonian Irish accent, I’m like but yeah, even, even Isha, I would be shocked because she comes off as so like, just genuine,

Simone Collins: but also these people.

I think the, the bigger thing for me is how much time do they spend talking about ideas or concepts versus talking about themselves, their lifestyles, and who they are. Life authenticity is about showing, not telling.

Malcolm Collins: I

Simone Collins: really actions over words. So if you talk about, well, I’m this, I’m that, and you also show.

I’m [00:14:00] like, I am, I am a trad wife. I am a virtuous Christian husband. And you post about it. And this guy who Sarah, whatever had her affair with, would post things very conspicuously on X. Like, here I am taking care of the kids while my wife goes to the gym to get back to her pre-pregnancy body. Guys, you’ve gotta support your housewife in getting out to the gym and like, just stupid, like very, very tell, don’t show.

And I think that’s that’s

Malcolm Collins: huge. Well, is this more than that? This other woman when she’s calling other women who sleep around a lot like bees and hoes and stuff like that, right? Yeah. While, while she’s doing it. I think that’s a, a really good indicator. Like, can you guys imagine Simone calling a woman who sleeps around a lot?

A, a bee or a ho? Like I, I think that to our audience, that would almost be. Comical to think

Simone Collins: of, I must insult people. Who do I insult on this podcast?

Who do I insult?

Malcolm Collins: Literally the only group we ever insult are Catholics [00:15:00] and sometimes Jews.

Simone Collins: I don’t, I don’t insult Catholics or Jews.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, you don’t, you don’t even do that.

Simone Collins: Oh I’m really sorry. Anyone working in a bureaucracy? I’m so sorry.

Malcolm Collins: You don’t see them as human and you

Speaker 3: I don’t wanna shoot nobody. They’re just robots. Morty. It’s okay to shoot them. They’re robots. Feel like you shut up. Glen’s bleeding to death. Someone called his wife and she, they’re not robots, Rick. It’s a figure of speech.

Morty. They’re bureaucrats. I don’t respect them. Just keep shooting.

Simone Collins: No no. Like I do, I think that it, like, it, it, and it’s not, I don’t think that the individuals working in bureaucracies are bad people. Or that they are incompetent. I believe that they are incentivized to behave in a way.

That is incompetent. Like, why would you ever go above and beyond when you’re basically only gonna be punished for it? That’s not reported.

Malcolm Collins: I, I point this out about other people, like consider leaflet as an influencer, right? Like, are you gonna see leaflet going on and talking about how other [00:16:00] women are bees or hoes or something like that?

Not like, no, she doesn’t. And, and the key difference that I think you really hit it on the head here is these influencers, when they go out there, they tell you how you should live your life. You’re like, you need, you need to do X, Y, and Z to be a proper, manly conservative male or something like that.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Do as I say, not as I do. It’s

Malcolm Collins: very much that. Yeah. But when we go out there or leaflet goes out there, or asthma gold goes out there

Simone Collins: they lead by example.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, that’s not the point I’m making.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: When they’re investigating a point, they’re asking, but why? Mm-hmm. Like, why is it useful to act in this way?

I don’t say like, you should, you should treat your, you know, like the posts that he did. Like if I was gonna do something similar to that post, right? Mm-hmm. IE be a good dad, chip in with helping. I would be very well consequentialist about it. I’d be like, look X type of woman isn’t gonna wanna marry you if you don’t do X, Y, and [00:17:00] Z.

And then once you’re married, you’re gonna develop bad habits that’ll lead to, you know, resentment that’ll lead to these sorts of

Simone Collins: externalities. You don’t even do that. No, your yours is so much better. So literally you do post, ‘cause you add these like clips of you, like stuff you film when you’re around the kids, one like.

Not to dunk on you, but your filming is terrible. Right? So it’s like potato quality. I don’t know what it is. Like we both have pixel phones. Your pixel phone is newer than mine. Your video looks like you filmed it on, on a, a potato with a battery attached to it. And so it’s one, it’s like not all polished, you know, it’s not like Instagram perfect.

It’s not Mormon wife posted Instagram and then it’s like, it’s not you like standing with like a baby carrier, holding another kid, like in a beautifully perfect room. It’s like you looking around piles of trash in the, like the kid room after a day that they spend with you. And like the boys are like in a cloud of wrestling on the floor and you like kick them with your sock foot.

That’s like your video, you know? And that, like, that is, [00:18:00] that is how you know it’s it’s authentic. It’s authentic because it’s not. It’s not flattering, it’s just, but it shows, what it shows is that you actually demonstrably spent the day taking care of the kids, as you can tell from like the,

Malcolm Collins: oh, I bet he spent days taking care of the kids.

Simone Collins: No, and he, yeah, he did. But, but mornings.

Malcolm Collins: But it was the way that he told, well, his wife into the gym and trying to get hot. It was the way that, or, or she told people that. And I think that we need to, as a community be much more proactive about catching people acting like this because it’s, it is something that is toxic to the community itself before it comes out.

That they were just faking everything. Mm. To just

Simone Collins: point out red flag behavior even before the affairs come out.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Point out when they are insulting people in this sort of like, aggressive way when they are trying to create status hierarchies where they’re like, this is the correct way to be, this is the incorrect way to be.

When they don’t see other people who live lifestyles that they [00:19:00] disagree with, with empathy and say, you know, even when they’re talking to those people, this is why that that’s how we win at the end of the day when people come over to the conservative side. And I’ve, I’ve made this point before, but it’s a very important point for conservatives to internalize.

Hmm. Which is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse Muslim lady, I forget her name who Deconverted from his Islam and was a very well known.

Simone Collins: Oh, I Ali.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And then she converted to Christianity. And everybody was like, why did you, when you became theistic, why did you convert to Christianity instead of Islam?

And she’s like, well, the entire time I was out there preaching atheism the Muslims would always come to me and say that they were gonna kill me or, and grate me. And she said, the Christians would often come to me, not always, but often come to me and say, well, I’m praying for you. And I, I, I, I hope that one day, you know, you change your mind on this.

And that, that made it very easy for her when she was like, well, is God real? You know, it’s this. And it’s not just that. More broadly, we’ve seen this on the right. Very generally is people come to the right and they expect everyone to hate them and treat them really poorly. [00:20:00] And by and large what they find is that people don’t hate them.

And they don’t treat them poorly. And they’ll say, I disagree with you on this, or this or this. Or they might tease them on an issue, but there isn’t the aggression they expect. And they’ll often realize pretty quickly that they get more hate in left wing spaces than they do in right wing spaces.

And this is really important. So even if you, for example, disagree with, say same sex relationships, if you want a person who is same sex attracted and thinks same sex relationship, normalization should be a thing to eventually change that position. The first thing they can’t, they, they, they shouldn’t hear when they tr come to the right for the first time.

And they have all these stereotypes about us and everything like that. Shouldn’t be some slur, shouldn’t be, I disagree with your lifestyle. Shouldn’t be, you know, it should be like accepting so that they get a chance to hear ideas and framings. Because I don’t think anyone on the right really believes that same sex attraction isn’t real [00:21:00] anymore.

Like, I don’t think that’s a, a talking point anyone has anymore about why you may not wanna base your life around something like this or sleeping around a lot, you know? I always hate this, that so many people in the right do things like sort of isolate Ayla, who I consider a very good friend of ours.

And a wonderful person. And I would say that I, I like with, with her the only way she ever gets comfortable saying, oh my God, the urban monoculture was wrong. Oh my God. These values are nice, is to espouse and explain these values without attacking individuals. And the problem is, is that the people on the right, which which does require some level of internal policing who do attack these people when they come into our communities are the people who.

So often turn out to be hypocrites. Hmm. And I, I, I would say IF see it fairly rarely if, if I can’t actually think of a single example of one of the [00:22:00] right-leaning figures who doesn’t attack people like this and then hasn’t, has, has later come out with some big scandal that just doesn’t seem to happen.

Simone Collins: Or who just is failing to live up to that ideal. Like they’re still perpetually single. Uncoupled alone, not living the trad dream.

Malcolm Collins: Well, okay, here’s another example of a right-leaning figure who I think is, is very different from us in many views, but I’d be quite shocked to hear some, some, actually, I even think he sort of like the exception that proves a world.

Okay? Okay. He did have a, a big scandal around him, which is Rudyard of, of whatever all his Rudyard. He doesn’t dunk on anyone, does he? No. He never dunks on anyone, is what I mean. But he has had a major scandal. So the point being is his major scandal was about him doing ayahuasca and, and crashing out about mysticism, right?

Like that’s not being mean to somebody. That doesn’t show that he has like a, a a mean heart or is fundamentally a hypocritical person, him crashing out on ayahuasca. [00:23:00] Is exactly something I would expect Rudyard to do. He didn’t like reveal some other side of his personality that was completely antithetical to everything he has presented himself as being.

He just was like, yeah, I am exactly who I have always told you I am.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But what you don’t see from him is some scandal about him you know, cheating on a woman or beating a woman or something like that. Right.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, I think also ‘cause this came up with someone who listens to the podcast and was talking about, I think this, this, this scandal like brought it up to me.

What scandal? This, this particular scandal. And

Malcolm Collins: what about it?

Simone Collins: Well, they said someone really needs to invent a genetic test for ho behavior. If Malcolm could do it, you guys could become zillionaires. And he thinks that there’s a genetic basis because there are [00:24:00] girls who, like, he, he thinks that there are genes that correlate with it.

I, I don’t really,

Malcolm Collins: I think there are genes that correlate with it.

Simone Collins: You

Malcolm Collins: do. You, you do. Oh, yeah. You isolate that. I’ll keep reading here, but back when I used to be a hoe, because I was a hoe younger, as I said, I’ve still around was like a hundred plus people. I really regret that I ever did that during that time in my life.

I didn’t really have some alternate framing of morality than the urban monoculture and, and what I got from my parents. And so I didn’t know, like I, I thought. I’m a young man. You look at what young men are told online, and it’s you are, you are more manly if you sleep around more. And this may not be as, as strong a message right now online, but keep in mind, this was like pre-read pill, right?

Like this was the, the community that bore that out. This is the community that, you know, Andrew Tate came out of it, everything like that, right? Like mm-hmm. It was sleep around and that’s what you do, right? And I have noted that that is enough people to get sampling. Data, right? Like to, to, to get enough [00:25:00] data between cultural groups and as people know, I, I, I almost exclusively dated not because if you watch your episode on like racial attractiveness, I just, for whatever reason, except for one black girl, exclusively white girls.

So I was able to compare white cultures specifically Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant culture was a, with a high degree of precision.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because those were the groups and you

Simone Collins: think there’s a polygenic score for ho behavior.

Malcolm Collins: So, if you were going to rank women based on how horny they were Oh like constantly, like how much they wanted to sleep around just

sex

Simone Collins: drive.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I, I slept with a lot of other people’s girlfriends too. Mind you. So I also know how, how likely they were to cheat, I would literally put young Catholic girls that maybe three x the other two groups they are incredibly horny compared to Catholic.

Simone Collins: So not Protestants, Catholics.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I think that there’s a historic reason for it as well.

So if, if [00:26:00] you’re looking at sort of biology, you needed to have a strong desire to want to get with somebody. And then after you get with somebody, have a lot of kids. Yeah. And, and, and Catholics historically were known for this. Yes, yes.

Malcolm Collins: They, they historically got married, younger and had lots of kids.

So being horny as a Catholic, especially if you have this deontological framework, because what Catholicism really is, is it’s a bunch of rules around like not masturbating, not spilling seed, not having sex outside of marriage. Mm-hmm. And so if you have all of these deontological rules, they basically funnel your internal biological drive towards an in-state.

Which is having lots of kids, right? Mm-hmm. Like assuming you cannot fulfill them with other people. Right? Now, you, you, you put that in a modern context where a lot of Catholics today you know, they don’t get married until they’re 30. They don’t get, you know, even when they’re [00:27:00] married, they’re not having sex constantly.

Right. If they’re sort of biologically engineered to just be having sex constantly in their like twenties to to to mid thirties and, and producing lots of kids, that’s going to lead to a lot of externalities. Mm-hmm. Whereas and PE by the way, people are wondering about the other two groups.

Simone Collins: In other words, you’re just arguing. There, there were more evolutionary pressures among people who were active practicing Catholics to have high sex drives like the Catholics with high sex drives Yes. Were the Catholics who inherited the future of Catholicism for a long time. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: They, they, they simply had more evolutionary pressures on having lots of having a high sex drive relating to having a lot of surviving children mm-hmm.

Than other metaphysical frameworks for reality. Interesting. That’s, that’s what Deontology does, although these deontological funnels, and this is why out of the other two groups the next most horny group was jus they were still fairly horny. , And as to why that that could be the case.

There’s still gonna be more biological pressures on a, on a, like Jewish because you have all the Jewish rules around, like [00:28:00] when you can have sex and everything like that. It’s just that Jews don’t hold to those rules as rigidly as Catholics do, but they have most of the same rules that Catholics do.

Well, there’s,

Simone Collins: there are also the rules, which are. Very, I guess, female sex positive of you need to pleasure your wife. She,

Malcolm Collins: And then of the Protestants I dated, I’d say that like half would, would count as what you would today call asexual or completely reactive sexual. My, my wife falls into this category which is a case that she does not like just randomly get horny except for like maybe once a year.

She. Uh, More than

Simone Collins: once a year, but it really, it depends heavily on like where I am hormonally. It’s very weird.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But, but reactive sexuality means that she does feel arousal, but like when you are touching her or rubbing against her, or you have already engaged her in some form of sexual No, it’s, it’s, it’s something that a lot of men do not understand.

A lot of women don’t understand and they think that they’re asexual. It’s [00:29:00] important to understand that that doesn’t mean you’re asexual.

Simone Collins: No. You have to activate sex mode. That is how you do it.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and this is because if you’re looking at the metaphysical framework that motivated reproduction was in Protestant communities.

If you look at the old framings of this, and we’ve done episodes of like why people used to have kids, why people used to have sex. Yeah. Protestant did it because it was like their duty to their family. It was their duty to their religion. You, you literally have ca names given to young Puritan girls.

Thou

Simone Collins: shall not Blaspheme Prudence.

Malcolm Collins: No, no. The one that I love was like thou shall have many children or something like that. Right. Like the, like literal, like just, you’re gonna do X thing. So the, it’s a, it’s a completely different framework about why you have kids. The, the Protestant women that had the most kids were the ones that felt the least.

External biological drives and were able to just logic themselves into having more kids. I’m just

Simone Collins: imagining like a, a modern, like pilgrim baby born like 10 years ago, being able like [00:30:00] learn to code.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The, the, the, whereas the Catholics who had the most kids were the ones who followed the deontological rule set that helped funnel their internal desire into children.

It’s a, it’s a completely different framework and I think it’s led to different outcomes, different population. Oh wow.

Simone Collins: Okay. So it’s not apologetic score, it’s are they consequentialist or deontological? Deontologists. That’s the question.

Malcolm Collins: And, and if you do that over generations, it leads to different outcomes.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, I, I mean I think also your general rule of thumb of finding women who did not invest, who, who were more interested in raw, and I’m not saying like, I’m not like. You would go for crazy women. But it was through like Machiavellian or like insane ambition rather than social drama. So it [00:31:00] was they were manic, but they weren’t borderline personality disorder.

Or they were like highly neurotic or autistic, but they weren’t like schizo. And also you, you had, you didn’t invest in women who wore a lot of makeup. You didn’t invest in women who, yeah. Like styled themselves real. Okay. You had a couple, you, you had at least one girlfriend who was very good at styling herself and had impeccable amazing style.

But that was just because of her background. It wasn’t like. She did it because it was how she was raised. It wasn’t like she was trying to like infect. Actually,

Malcolm Collins: this is a, a, a a interesting point because I was just thinking about how different the two groups were. Yeah. Or I said that about half of the Protestant women that I, I I dated and slept with had reactive sexualities or like, were basically asexual bi societal standards.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I’d say about half of the Catholic women wanted to have sex at least every day.

Simone Collins: Oh, oh.

Speaker 4: do you get your five fruits and veg? Oh, I mean, I certainly tried to. I would say I probably, I probably do a day. A [00:32:00] what?

Simone Collins: So the one,

Malcolm Collins: it, it

Simone Collins: wasn’t like you talked about,

Malcolm Collins: it wasn’t like a, a small difference. It was like an enormous

Simone Collins: difference between one where there’s a conflict between like you studying and intimate time. That was she a Catholic girlfriend?

Malcolm Collins: I can’t remember. Was her.

Simone Collins: Okay. That’s interesting. But I, I feel like if, if I were to advise our sons, I would say. Don’t look at how she styles herself. Now we can fix that because like your mom fixed a lot of things about me after I was introduced to the family. Yeah. So you can, you can fix someone’s grooming and styling an appearance immediately.

As soon as she knew that we were gonna get engaged, she, she was literally like shipping clothes to my apartment. I, I wonder if I can like, dig up some of the pictures. She just like suddenly just starts sending me like, all her, all of her old clothes. Get,

Malcolm Collins: get dressed. Nice girl.

Simone Collins: Yeah. She’s like, Ugh, fix it.

She would

Malcolm Collins: hate your outfit today,

Simone Collins: by the way. It’s so She would, but then she’d be so excited about all the Epstein drops that she like, I don’t know. She would, would fall out, you know, [00:33:00] like, she awesome. But anyway, I do look at the girl. Don’t invest in styling. You could fix that. Look at her mother and how her mother has aged.

I think that’s a really important, like good rule of thumb.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, I think, I think a good rule is don’t date overly horny girls. Like this is an easy thing. Right?

Simone Collins: Like me too. You, you wouldn’t need, oh yeah, I guess, yeah, if she’s really horny, she might need to satisfy herself outside your relationship.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s but up. Well what about the guys who are like, yeah, but I need a girlfriend who constantly wants to pounce on me. Like, I don’t know. I think it’s one of those things like be aware, can’t have at all aware. She constantly

Malcolm Collins: wants to pounce on you. She’s gonna occasionally wanna pounce on other things as well.

Like

Simone Collins: the reason why don’t worry. Either you get dead bedrooms or you get an unfaithful wife. Is this like the, is this the choice? Yeah. Do you want the red pill or the blue pill? What are you gonna choose, guys? Actually, Wayne, in the comments, what would you choose if like, I mean, I, I think you’re right though.

I think it’s true. It’s,

Malcolm Collins: I I know, I think you’re right. And I, I, I’ll point out that your wife’s sexuality will go down the longer you’re married to each other, right? Like, yeah. People, and I [00:34:00] don’t think that that’s a bad thing, right? Like. I get to play with my kids more. Right? Like sex is a, a waste of time.

Oh God. I’m gonna get more

Simone Collins: emails. Simone, you need to go. Pleasure Malcolm right now.

Malcolm Collins: And I, and I bet you’re getting those emails from Catholic female fans because of Norm. I wonder Catholic culture.

Simone Collins: I wonder, I wonder,

Malcolm Collins: That’s just right to him

Simone Collins: right now. Pull

Malcolm Collins: out way more sexual and

Simone Collins: give him a b*****b.

Do it now. No,

Malcolm Collins: it’s, it’s important to talk about this before I go further with this piece because I think that there is this perception and it leads to really big problems in society. Yeah. That white people are all the same and white people are not all the same. We are biologically and psychologically quite different from each other.

Hmm. And if we don’t call that out Yeah. And you try to force yourself to live in the way that another group is designed to live.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And often right now I I, I argue that a lot of people are trying to live like the urban monoculture, which borrows the most from Jewish culture. It’s got a bit of Catholic [00:35:00] culture mixed in.

It’s got a bit of Protestant culture mixed in. And then they try to apply that to other cultural groups and people are like, why? Why did the Jews fertility rates not hit as much as other groups? And I’m like, well, because the Jews are still living in Jewish culture. Right. But you are trying to live in like friendship is magic nonsense.

Watch our episode on why Jews have friends where I point out that a lot of cultural groups just do not have large friend networks historically.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And if you go out there and you say, well, I’m only gonna be fulfilled if I have a ton of friends. And you’re not from a culture that’s like biologically built to have lots of friends, you’re gonna be effing miserable.

Absolutely. And you’re gonna go to parties and you’re gonna be like, why the heck am I at this party? This is not fun. Yeah. Nothing about This is fun. You will go to a nightclub and you will say. The, I do not biologically understand why anyone is here. Or if you’re, if you are from a culture that’s biologically built for those things, and it’s okay to be different, right?

Like, it’s not bad to be different, but if you’re biologically built for those things, you go to your other friend’s house and you, they, they play d and d or whatever, [00:36:00] and you’re like, this is the most boring thing I’ve ever seen in my entire life.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And they’re having a blast. These people appear to be having, why is this happening?

Yeah. And it’s because we don’t allow the answer to be, they might be biologically different from you.

Simone Collins: That’s a really good point. That’s a really good point.

Malcolm Collins: Like with d and d, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll point this out. What, what group do I think is biologically more prone to enjoying d and d, the East Asian ethnic group?

The East

Simone Collins: Asian, I dunno. I don’t see very many like East Asians famously into.

Malcolm Collins: Really if you go to like, from what I remember, like DD stuff, I always remembered unusual amount of East Asians like leaflets. An example the, I I, I don’t know among the white groups, because I haven’t been in DD enough to make that distinction among the people I see at DD groups.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Honestly, I’m just, I’m thinking of all the, all the people who showed up on Harman Quest and the people who had

Malcolm Collins: I, and I’d also note here, because I wanna be clear about this this [00:37:00] particular Protestant, Jewish Catholic distinction that’s sort of like partially biological it is not one where I am strictly saying that like it is worse to marry someone of Catholic descent.

Because here I’m pointing out that if you don’t want a dead bedroom of that’s like your nightmare scenario Catholics are gonna be the lowest chance of that happening. Yeah. Well I

Simone Collins: think this is a really, no, it’s a really good point though, in that. It. The, a really big element of the, like perfect trad family is a chaste wife who was a virgin coming into marriage and, and saved herself and didn’t feeling

Malcolm Collins: sex

Simone Collins: was her eye.

Never wanders. And then, but, but, oh, you know, God forbid, like you would ever have to initiate or that she would ever not be interested.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no, no. Actually, I, this changed. This changed, and I think that this is part of the problem with modern tra culture

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Is that historically the perfect tra wife was not super horny for her husband

Simone Collins: was sexually [00:38:00] reluctant.

Malcolm Collins: Really? She, she was sexually repressed in all things. Okay. She would have sex to have children, but she was not like,

Simone Collins: oh, so, but it was understood that you would be intimate with a dead fish.

Malcolm Collins: Right. If, if you look at well not necessarily a dead fish, like she might try to engage, but you look at like Puritan writings around sexuality and stuff like that.

You got steamy

Simone Collins: Whatcha talking about like they didn’t, they didn’t.

Malcolm Collins: No, no. They talked about sex very graphically and in a steamy way. But the reason why they talked about sex graphically in a steamy way is you could tell that sex just was not very tempting to them. Like they could afford to be so steamy because in the same way that like we, if you read the Pragma Guide to Sexuality, we go really deep into really bizarre fetishes.

But it’s because the entire field is just so un alluring to us.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: It’s not something that, that evokes this reflective, like, I’ve gotta push this away from me because it’s not a grabbing of us in the same

Simone Collins: way. No. I think actually for people, if like, [00:39:00] just, just to head off, everyone is gonna write to me and tell me like, okay, for me sex is a lot like alcohol.

Where like I will knock back five ounces of vodka and feel like kind of happy or whatever, right. And like, you know, Malcolm and just get like really cheerful and loving. And it’s great and I enjoy it and it’s fun. And it’s the same with sex. Like I’ll, we’ll go for it, you know, and it’s great. But like also sometimes we need to work or like we have to choose, like, I have to choose between like, am I going to knock back five ounces of vodka?

Or am I going to like. Be more efficient in cleaning up tonight?

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, I mean, this is, this is really what it comes down to. You’re always choosing between things. And right now what are we working on? We’re trying to save society. We are trying to save not, not just socially, not just through Tism, but also from ai safety related stuff.

I mean, that’s the end goal agency in our fab. So every day, huge, long hours, but also be there for our

Simone Collins: kids. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And, and then we’re trying to raise five children right now and, and, and [00:40:00] more every year. And so I need to ask myself, if ever I’m like, oh, I wanna have sex. I’m like, is this it? Is the pleasure I’m feeling from this, literally more important than potentially saving the world.

Right? Like the. The fixing this AI issue,

Simone Collins: but actually the, like, actually think about it guys. Like, so the, so the kids are like asleep or something and then, you know, Malcolm wakes up at 2:00 AM if we end up banging, you know, he’s probably gonna sleep in a little bit.

Malcolm Collins: I’ve lost like a day of work time because I’ve exhausted myself during the only time I get alone.

And then,

Simone Collins: yeah, because like he, he uses like we, we both just sort of mentally wind down a little bit after the kids are in bed. Like, it’s the one time we take to like do stupid stuff. Like I watch legal procedural, this I

Malcolm Collins: don’t

Simone Collins: believe t