Are Progressives Mutants Who Hate Society? (Understanding Spiteful Mutant Theory)

Ever wondered why progressive protesters often look... off? Why certain ideologies seem to spread like a virus, tanking fertility and promoting anti-life ideas? In this episode, we dive deep into Edward Dutton’s “Spiteful Mutants” theory — the idea that relaxed natural selection since the Industrial Revolution has allowed harmful genetic mutations to pile up, creating people who are not only low-fitness themselves but actively sabotage everyone else’s reproductive success. Think zombies, but real, walking among us.

We cover:

* How “spiteful mutants” explain everything from trans activism and antinatalism to atheism, BLM zealotry, and declining testosterone.

* Why progressive crowds resemble Rocky Horror Picture Show characters — but without the joy, just spite.

* The dark side of consent myths, age-of-consent debates, porn legalization saving kids from assault (yes, the data is wild), and why some leftists normalize predatory behavior.

* Parasites, modernity’s mismatches (processed food, EMF weirdness, sedentary life), and why we’re all a bit “mutated” now.

* The brutal choices ahead: germline editing, embryo selection, active eugenics in communities, or slow dysgenic collapse.

If you’re building a high-fitness family or just trying to understand why society feels increasingly deranged, this is for you. Shoutout to Jolly Heretic Ed Dutton for popularizing the concept.

Watch our other deep dives on urban monoculture, pronatalism, and human biodiversity. Subscribe for more unfiltered takes on saving civilization — one baby at a time.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are gonna dive in to the concept of spiteful mutants,

Have you tried not being a mutant?

Malcolm Collins: which is a theory that most famously, ed Dutton has promoted the jolly

Simone Collins: her to himself.

Malcolm Collins: Golly Heretics been on the show, printed the show. We, he was one of the people we got in trouble for associating with, would Hope Not Hate did a piece on us.

How

Simone Collins: very Dare We? And I think he tried to warn everyone that like, Hey. Yeah. But it was after we had met was the guy, this guy’s fake. Yeah. I, I don’t, I don’t think we heard from him about this or they, he was just like, no one asked me. But like, I knew from the beginning that they were super suspicious anyway.

Yeah. Called late Ed.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, what I like is, is Ed Dutton’s concept of Spiteful Mutant has entered the popular lexicon of the modern, right? Yeah. As much as munch as small bugs a cathedral or our. [00:01:00] Concept of the urban monoculture. It’s something that you hear across platforms, across users. Mm-hmm.

It’s just a useful way to, but what’s funny is the urban monoculture and the cathedral are sort of synonyms. I, I guess the cathedral describes the, really, it refers to the

Simone Collins: bureaucratic operation. The urban monoculture refers to the, the culture. Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. The, the wider cultural system. Mm-hmm.

And people have asked us to do, why, why don’t you do your just urban monoculture video? And we’ve done a, a number of videos that could be the just urban monoculture video, but like, we’ve got fans and they don’t want to hear us go over something they already know about. Right? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Tell us something we don’t know.

That’s the point. Yeah. Wes, the point issue. Let’s talk about spiteful mutants. ‘cause not everyone knows them. I think everyone can immediately understand though what is being referred to when someone talks about spiteful mutants, which I think is why the concept has caught on. It becomes so widespread.

Malcolm Collins: I, I’m gonna point, I actually I did not fully get, I actually had to go back to it because I was sort of thinking in my head, right, [00:02:00] like what I assumed that he meant by spiteful mutants is there was some sort of evolutionary mechanism that was causing some human animals to attempt to sabotage the reproductive success of animals around them or related to them.

When they were not having success in reproducing I assumed that it was describing some mechanism where that happened. And I just couldn’t think of like, what, what would be the biological mechanism there? Like how, how would that evolutionarily benefit anything? And that actually isn’t spiteful mutant theory.

So I’m actually wondering what, what did you think the spiteful mutant theory is before I go into it,

Simone Collins: that people who end up being progressive are in various other ways? Either through their life choices or just through unfortunate circumstances of birth malformed in various ways. And that you tend to see a correlation between people who are more [00:03:00] unkempt or intentionally.

Mutilated, like, well, septum, piercings, face tattoos or like, just, just general like markings or o obesity, like various elements that people associate with just not making the best decisions. Hair dying, that kind of thing, like weird colors or whatever. Mm-hmm. Either through choice or through circumstance ending up in these positions.

Malcolm Collins: So, that’s close and I’ll give you guys a, a quick summary of what the actual theory is because I’ve gone over a few of his videos just to make sure that I understand like where he’s coming from. Yeah, that’s true. ‘cause

Simone Collins: we, we, I, I haven’t actually consumed any of his. His original, this is what it is.

I’ve heard him mention them in passing, just like we do with the urban monoculture. So Fair point. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: I’ll, I’ll give a high level overview and then I’ll go into the, the details and I’ll also go over, you know, whether this is a useful concept, a useful framing or a true framing and concept. So specifically it sort of starts with just look at a lineup of like progressive [00:04:00] protesters.

They look. Malformed, they look weird. They look out of the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Right.

Speaker 3: We don’t want to interfere with their celebrations. This isn’t the Junior Chamber of Commerce, Brad.

They’re probably foreigners with ways different than our own.

Speaker 6: I’m just a sweet

trans.

Speaker 5: Day for the night, or maybe a bite bite. I could show you my favorite obsession.

Malcolm Collins: And Simone doesn’t like that. I point that out. But the, the the, when I see that and I see progressive protesters, it’s the same. Everyone looks a little bit deformed and off.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But my problem with, with your comparison to the Rocky Horror Picture Show is those are joyful mutants.

Speaker 8: In another dimension [00:05:00] with voyeuristic intent, well secluded, I see all

Simone Collins: ​ That is how it should be. And they’re not trying to take over the world. They’re, they’re literally, spoiler alert aliens. No, hold on.

Malcolm Collins: Spoiler alert. Let’s actually look at the Rocky Horror Picture Show. They are a bunch of deformed humans. You can call them aliens, but they’re deformed humanoids, okay. That are like canonically.

They’re, hold on. They are gleeful at the opportunity to sexually harass and assault innocent children. That is what the show is about. They’re [00:06:00] young. The, the, the protagonists in this, in the Rocky Horror Picture Show are, I think in high school hold on, I’m gonna look this up.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Tell, let’s, let’s, let’s work that out.

I think they’re like young adults. I think they’re like a young couple. It’s just stupid and square.

Malcolm Collins: The reason why I think high school is because I think he has a Letterman jacket. I think he is noticed too,

Simone Collins: but that could be. And

Malcolm Collins: you typically have a Letterman jacket in high school, not in college.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, I mean, he could be a complete tool who continues to wear his Letterman jacket and college, but I’m curious to see what it says.

Malcolm Collins: So it says it depends on the source. Some high school, some college. So yes, Simone, that’s exactly what they are. They are a group of mutants getting their jollies at harassing and, and they are harassing and sexually assaulting them. Do you deny that that is the, the, the core source of joy that these mutants [00:07:00] have?

And I’d like to really point out here that the people who venerate this movie are the ones who would demonize individuals like Harvey Weinstein. It’s very clear that this is a very contextual demonization for them and that they normalize this type of behavior.

Speaker 12: So come up to the lab and see what’s on the slab. I see you shiver with

anticipation,

​

Speaker 15: Such strenuous living. I just don’t [00:08:00] understand.

Simone Collins: Well, the way that people on the left talk about it is that they are. Introducing them to elements of their sexuality that they didn’t even know they could explore, and that in the end, they like it

And I think that this can be seen as the core of leftist moral philosophy around sexuality. If they say they liked it afterwards, then it’s okay if you, no matter what you force somebody into, if you can get them to normalize to it eventually, then it is okay. And what’s worse and more toxic about this at LU is if you could conceive in yourself that eventually you could get them to like it eventually, then it’s okay because of course, well.

From your perspective, you don’t know if they’ll like it eventually or not to begin with. But if you suspect that they will, then of course you can force them into it. Of course, you don’t need consent. , And this. horrifying, really, because it, it leads [00:09:00] to truly, truly evil actions on their behalf. And it’s where you get these horrifying things like, you know, the recent study that showed up of trans individuals who, , the people who identify with a different gender at i, I believe the age of 12, that over 90% of them identify with their birth gender by the age of 23.

, If you do not begin to introduce, the, . Hormone blockers to them and the gender reassignment to them. , And that we know from now the, . Travis stock files, , when they were released, and we began to get the studies coming out on that, that introducing people to, , hormone blockers when they’re younger, increases their unliving risk, increases their self-harm risk.

, And yet, , because it could potentially help some small, you know, 10% fraction of them, it’s okay to do to the rest of them.

Malcolm Collins: aggressively and through force and through trapping them in a strange house. Well, as we know from

Simone Collins: our research on human sexuality.

If we had to, [00:10:00] if we had to guess if someone had a gun pointed to our heads and we’re like, alright. You know, do, do you think this person wants to be forced into something? Do they wanna be dominated? We would obviously say they wanna be dominated ‘cause both the majority of men and women. Prefer submissive roles.

Women more than men, but even the majority of men, when asked, when it comes down to it, when, when it comes effort. Just wanna lie back and take it. I’m telling you what?

Malcolm Collins: Well, less effort. I think that’s, well, I don’t even think that’s it. I think that the reality is, is that the majority of men were benefited by submissive roles because the majority of men throughout history were not the leaders of their tribes or groups.

Mm-hmm. And if you’re not the leader of a tribe or group having a. Preference for dominance can be it means that you need to

Simone Collins: be eliminated because you’re a threat.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It, it can, it can, but there’s an evolutionary

Simone Collins: reason why we certainly, humanity would not be published sorry, punished for favoring submission.

However it, it is also crucial to survival that, that we can serve energy, mental energy, physical energy, any form of [00:11:00] energy we can. And submission is a form of energy conservation. So there’s also, but

Malcolm Collins: actually just this scene from the Rocky Horror Picture Show, right? Like, do you understand how deranged and progressive it is that, that it’s nor like that these people aren’t just seen as being terrifying sex pests?

Like that, that’s not the main takeaway you would have from watching that show. Is I think the main takeaway is

Simone Collins: that, and, and people think delight in that.

Malcolm Collins: The Rock Horror Picture Show is part of that problem.

Simone Collins: Maybe one, one person’s gender euphoria is another person’s gender dysphoria. One person’s raunchy Mirth is another person’s

Malcolm Collins: of the children is not considered at any point in the show.

Like at no point they, they are trapped in the

Simone Collins: house. Okay. In discussion of the Epstein files, as many have discussed, age of consent is a really. Klugy concept. And across countries there are very different ages of consent. And

Malcolm Collins: by the way, you’re like a new follower of the [00:12:00] show you should watch if you wanna see the craziest thing about Age of Consent, our video about Communism’s problem with age of consent because almost every communist party has tried to lower the age of consent to like 11.

Yeah. And we just go over document, a document, a documented, documented document country, this

Simone Collins: country.

I think we should go to the number one ranking, left wing streamer, Hassan Piker, for his thoughts on this.

Hassan Piker: That’s the legendary question of all time old enough to count old enough to mount question mark. I wanna say thank you to Miley Cyrus for showing off her camel toe at the VMAs the other night. I always knew Hannah Montana was a little slut. Don’t even try to hide it. Look, this is a classic example of what happens when your father doesn’t pay attention to you.

You turn out to be a slut who’s craving for attention, and then I tend to pick you up at a bar late night and bang you out on the first day.

Malcolm Collins: Oh boy. And the reason being is that you know, a woman’s. Body is inherently a means of production, right? And it’s one that men want access to. And so you have to seize [00:13:00] the means of production.

Well, no, I mean, if she says, no, I don’t want to give this to you, right? Like, you know, she is monopolizing a, a resource of pleasure in society. Capital stake. It’s, it’s not just that, it’s also that, as I pointed out, the myth of consent. Nobody cares about consent, really. We, we, they’re, they’re like, oh, you know, don’t have sex with an animal because it can’t consent.

And meanwhile, they’ll like eat veal, which is like tortured baby cow, right? Like, why, why in this case this consent matter and yet every day you eat animals that were tortured to death, right? Like, and the answer is. Obviously we adopted norms around not having sex with animals for disease transmission, not because of consent.

And the reason, oh, wait,

Simone Collins: okay. I’m sorry not to get into this, but have you actually read those ar arguments in detail? Because I wonder then like, what if I said, okay, what if I slather peanut butter in my no-no zone and then just sort of sit in front of a dog, like is the all consenting. That’s actually an interesting, well,

Malcolm Collins: they would say [00:14:00] that the dog lacks the,

Simone Collins: They don’t know the context.

The context. Kind of like if, if a, if, if a, if a man were to expose himself to a small child in a park, the child’s just like, I don’t know. That was weird. Right? Like, they don’t feel violated. They were violated, so people would probably make that same argument. Is that Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And the argument I, I, I point out with kids is like, we still allow like elderly people who are like less there than let’s say like a eight totally year old or a 9-year-old to have sex.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or mentally disabled people. Yeah. Like, it’s clearly about the life stage being inappropriate and not an issue of consent. Yeah. Like it can cause long-term mental damage. To engage in certain things at that life stage in the same way that like, we don’t let kids drink alcohol and stuff.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And I think that the, the communists, you know, they see through this, it’s not really about consent, but then they don’t really care about the long-term damage to the kid or believe that there would be long-term damage to the kid.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Right. You know,

Malcolm Collins: So I, I mean, I, I think it’s important that we use the words that we really mean as a society.

Yeah. And with the Epstein files, I think the reason a lot of people freaked [00:15:00] out or there was a counter freak out being like, well, you know, there, what was it like 16, 17, something like that. Mm-hmm. And I think the reality is, is that if you hear about, let’s say a 16-year-old or a 17-year-old sleeping with another, like 17-year-old, like two 17 year olds sleeping together.

Right. You don’t care. You don’t like. I wouldn’t if, if, if, if,

Simone Collins: if weren’t Romeo and Juliet, like 15 and 16 or something.

Malcolm Collins: Right. The, the, the bigger issue here would be, well, I love how the progressives say it like power distance, right. It’s more just that it’s gross to imagine an old man sleeping with

Simone Collins: the half plus seven rule is the easiest rule of thumb, just half plus seven.

Malcolm Collins: And I point out here when I say 17, that is chef’s age given in South Park.

Speaker: But chef, when is the right age for us to start having sex? It is very simple. Children. The right time to start having sex is 17. 17. 17. So you’ll mean 17. As long as you’re in love. [00:16:00] Nope, just 17. But what if you’re not ready at 17? 17? You’re ready.

Malcolm Collins: It’s also the age I lost my virginity at 17. At 17. Because I was basing it on South Park. I was like, south Park’s pretty based. I, I didn’t understand it. I was like just live by the, the Bible of South Park, the, the famous line,

Simone Collins: Hey mom,

Malcolm Collins: there’s a famous line in South Park where, one of the parents is like, well, you know what if the child is very precocious and you know, gets into these things younger and she goes 17, and then another parent is like, but what if they develop a little more slowly and she goes, 17. And, and I don’t still agree with this. I think now it’s.

Probably better to wait until you’re planning to marry someone. Yeah. But, you know, given, given where I was in society back then and the way society was structured and the knowledge I had access to, you know, at least I had that to go with for, for, for 17 and not earlier.

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I, I feel like it not to, I, I hate the idea of there being double standards, but I [00:17:00] do feel like it’s different for men and women.

I think that there’s a reason

I’m going downstairs to the TV.

Okay. I think there’s a reason why even in, in, in really long ago, Catholic men would sled it up until they got married. Oh, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because you, you can sleep around more. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, but women wouldn’t, women didn’t do that, but men did. I, I just, I don’t know.

I mean, I, I don’t, I don’t appreciate that the health, like the STD ramifications of that

Malcolm Collins: or the potentially getting somebody pregnant. Ramification. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So I don’t think it’s, I don’t think it’s worth it in a modern context. I think it’s better to teach, especially now because you know, the pornography is so accessible.

Like, w why are you using a real person as your own hole? Yeah. Like, you could, you could literally just go online if that’s such a challenge for you. So I, I don’t, I don’t think it’s, it’s worth the potential risks involved there. But anyway, [00:18:00] back on topic here with that, with that, sorry.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I don’t know.

I’m still, I, I think maybe, maybe a, another argument in, in defense of. Rocky Horror Picture Show. I don’t even like Rocky Horror Picture Show. I don’t like any musical, just for the record. So I’m not No, but here’s

Malcolm Collins: the thing that I’m, I’m not

Simone Collins: standing it. What I am saying though is they’re happy and they’re having fun and I think a core common characteristic.

The kids are not

Malcolm Collins: happy in having fun. They’re terrified at points of the movie.

Simone Collins: Well, but they end up liking it. But I’m saying is Frank Infer and his. Company of village, but they end up liking it. Do some people orgasm when they’re graped? Right? I know, like, yeah. It’s, look, look, I’m the, the spiteful mutants of the Rocky Horror Picture Show, as you choose to define them, are not spiteful.

They’re happy mutants. And the difference with today’s spiteful mutants is that they are not happy. They are not thriving. They have serious mental health issues. Many of them have suicidal ideation. The these are [00:19:00] not. They’re not enjoying it. They’re both, they’re both ruining the world and making nothing fun for anyone else and, and corrupting other people and trying to convert other people to their ways without consent, and they’re not even enjoying it.

At least. Frank and Ferer had fun. Okay. I wanna, I

Malcolm Collins: wanna get into the side note here right of that you were talking about where some people are, like, why are people so angry about like 17-year-old girl here? And treating it like it’s the same as, and I actually do think that there’s something fundamentally wrong.

With trying to categorize somebody sleeping with a 17-year-old the same way as somebody sleeping with like an 8-year-old. Yeah, because one is obviously going to do a lot more psychological damage to the individual involved. And I also physical damage. Physical damage. Yeah. I don’t know. But I also think that there’s something wrong with, because if somebody’s 17 right?

And you, you put a picture of 17 versus 18 year olds in front of me, [00:20:00] right. Girls, I wouldn’t be able to tell the seventeens from the 18 year olds. I, I think significant. I

Simone Collins: remember we went on that cruise ship and we w we had a hibachi dinner with the three people and I thought they were all friends, and it turned out that one of them was like the daughter.

It

Malcolm Collins: was like a

Simone Collins: 14-year-old

Malcolm Collins: daughter and you couldn’t tell, I just

Simone Collins: thought one of them was attractive and the other just weren’t. The other two just weren’t.

Malcolm Collins: And I point, I was like, no, that’s their kids alone.

Simone Collins: She looked so old kid there, there really is something to this whole, like Gen Z looking like they’re

Malcolm Collins: 40 thing.

Yeah. But she was like 17. I, I don’t 17 year olds or something. Yeah. But the point I’m making here is you can’t tell like the difference between these two pictures and yet,

you know, you, you go to a, a guy with a bunch of like 18-year-old. It pornography. Right? And people are like, oh, that’s totally a normal thing to have on your computer.

And then it’s one, one year younger and physiologically indistinguishable and they’re like, that is horrifying.

Speaker 19: Turn your attention to the [00:21:00] clock.

Speaker 18: 10 minutes. Whatcha gonna do to her Joker, don’t worry. Batman. Wendy is safe. She’s safe with me. Don’t you see bats? Do you know what tomorrow is?. It is. Wendy’s birthday.

Are, are you gonna kill her or, or her family?

What? What? What are you gonna do?

Speaker 19: Do you know how old she’s turning bats?

Speaker 18: N no. I, I don’t know.

Speaker 19: Wendy is so adorable, so sweet to bass, but that’s midnight. She becomes sexy,

Speaker 18: joker. What the , joker. I would rather you do other things. This, this is legal technically, but I don’t like it. It’s, it’s weird. This is just weird.

Joker, uh

Speaker 19: uh, don’t be so weird but critical. That’s not so different. You and I,

Speaker 18: look, we are, we are very different.

Joker. Uh, it’s, it’s Bruce Wayne. Um, I just want you to know that like a normal [00:22:00] person is under this that thinks it’s really, really bad that you do this, so stop doing it. Ugh, Batman.

When the societally correct way, I think to be dealing with this is not to say there’s this magic age where everything changes, but one, you should not be sexualizing people dramatically younger than you. , And that two, , you should not be, , putting people who are developmentally too young to be in sexual situations in a mentally mature way in those situations.

I had admit that the reason that we don’t want them engaging in these situations is not because of consent, not because they can’t make their own decisions, but because they are developmentally too young to be in these situations in a mentally healthy way..

Malcolm Collins: And I think it is useful to have these really strong barriers in society to just be like, we don’t do that. Yeah. But it’s important to remember. Why we have these barriers. It’s for the psychological protection [00:23:00] of the developing people who might be exposed to sexual scenarios or the, or that you might create economic incentives to expose people at wrong developmental milestones.

And so, putting the barrier there, I think is. Useful societally speaking, but I think a lot of people get really confused as to like why the barrier is there. Yes. If it feels so arbitrary to just have this one barrier and then everything. So I, I don’t, I think that’s an interesting topic there.

Simone Collins: But not what’s really funny though, I think Megan Kelly at one point pointed this out in relation to the whole Epstein thing and. The, the media slash public collectively lost their minds. And I, I think ALA’s talked about PDA files and like, well, if it’s, what if it was just all perfectly synthetic material?

People just really seemed to, to lose their minds around [00:24:00] this. A large argument being like, if you let people, like give them an inch and they’ll take a mile, like if you let them even think about it, then they’ll just start going around. Actually hurting people, except the data

Malcolm Collins: shows that’s factually untrue.

Yeah. It’s

Simone Collins: just, this is just one of those things though, where I think people aren’t allowed to even voice that as a reasonable fact in opinion.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, we’ve seen countries, when they have lifted pornography bans, the amount of grapes drops dramatically. The amount of child grapes drops by around 50% in some environ.

Yeah, it’s, yeah, I don’t. You’re literally sacrificing the lives of children. I know. Just, just wait though. You’ll see

Simone Collins: in the comments people coming in. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: People will be like, oh, but it maybe you look at like, sex offender. Sex offenders typically start engaging whiz pornography at later ages than non-sex offenders.

Like this is a well-studied phenomenon.

If you wanna dig deeper into this, in the Czech Republic, 1989 to 1990, when porn was legalized, the number of children who were S AED a year dropped from [00:25:00] 2000 to 1000. That is 1000 children every year who were not being s aed. , And when people are like, oh, well, you know, do, do, do porn temps me or temps, whoever, it’s like, so you’re willing to to consign.

A thousand children. Keep in mind, the Czech Republic is a small area, so well more if you’re talking about something like the US to essay, because you can’t fing control yourself because you lack self-control. This is the sticky trap that traps the perverts in our society from not assaulting actual human children.

Do you understand? Evil you are if you want to ban this because this is the consequence of you banning this. And if you’re like, oh, well, , it doesn’t matter what the consequences, everything, you’re just an effing communist, right? Like obviously everybody wants no poverty. But when we look at the consequences of doing it in this way and we see, oh, the consequences are mass murder.

Mass death, oh yeah, maybe. Trying [00:26:00] to distribute wealth to everyone is actually a bad idea. , And this is the same thing when it comes to something like corn. , And this has been measured in many countries, not just the Czech Republic. Another famous example was Japan. , 1972 to 1955, , the amounts of grape dropped 68%.

And if you’re looking at juvenile grape, it was 79% the number of actual human children you save by normalizing this. Sort of thing is astounding, and people who are like, oh, why do you offer it with your website? Like our rfab.ai? It’s like, oh, because I can make money off of negative human behavioral patterns and then use that to fund things like our school, like pia.ai, like our work to try to save civilization, like our prenatal list work.

Yeah. I don’t want to charge people for good things like the school. I want to charge them for negative things like indulging in arousal, the way that I’ve always seen arousal, I think is the right way to see. Arousal in society and teach your kids about arousal is in, , coyotes. So what coyotes will do [00:27:00] is they will have a female go out to domestic dogs to try to get them away from the house when they’re in heat and, display themselves to the dogs, and they lure the dogs far enough away from the house, and then they’ll kill them and eat them.

And that is what sexuality fundamentally , is it’s something that can lure you away to kill you and eat you. But if you hide. Engaging from sexuality, or you lead the dog to think, well, if I’m aroused by that, then I must be evil. , Then you make it even easier for the coyotes to get to it. What you say is, no, this is a normal thing to feel, just don’t fall for it.

And if you want to use this to manipulate other people, go ahead. They are responsible for the consequences of their own sins, and I. This is also why genuinely the individuals who have so little self-control, , and that succumb to this so easily, that they would condemn the consequence that they know will happen from restricting access to this, , which is childs sa at a mass [00:28:00] scale, just because of their own lack of self-control.

I think that they’re truly some of the most disgusting people in society. And as I’ve pointed out, even if this wasn’t the case, banning porn is just one step away from a. VPN bands and everywhere that we have seen it and people were like, oh, Malcolm, that’s not true. That’s not true. You don’t get VPN bands the moment you get porn.

It’s like, no, but it always politically tables it. Look at what’s happening with Discord now. Look at what’s happening in the UK now. , Whenever this gets tabled, VPN bands get tabled because it can’t be done meaningfully without v VP N bands. These people are not genuinely on our side.

Anyone who would sacrifice a child because of their own lack of self-control, not a good person.

Malcolm Collins: And people have an intuition about it that’s very strong. And I had that same intuition actually when I wrote the book, the Pragmatist Guide to Sexuality. I began writing the chapter was that intuition. Then I went to go look for the research to back up the intuition, I assumed was true.

Yeah. And the data. Just from any source, not just from like the corrupted academic [00:29:00] institutions, any source, even our own surveys showed the exact opposite of what I intuited.

Sorry, I should have been clear here from a variety of sources, including the own, our own data that we collected on this and we collected a lot of data on this. , You will find some people who have dedicated their entire lives to trying to argue the opposite. , But , outside of that, I have not seen.

Any data against this where the source isn’t just clearly, clearly, clearly super biased. , And I will frequently see people like myself on this subject who went into it believing this is bad, , collected the data and then were like, I guess I was just wrong. Whereas I haven’t seen people on the other side, , people who thought, , this is not bad, collected the data.

, And then said, oh, , I guess I was wrong.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And so I, I, I think with someone like in, as somebody with intellectual integrity, I said, oh shoot, I was wrong on this. That’s important to do that.

Simone Collins: It’s not. When, when you’re potentially wrong, you don’t just close your [00:30:00] eyes and turn away and pretend you never saw the thing you dig in. That’s the point. If you’re wrong, you should try to be right.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But I do, I do think it’s useful to have this, this taboo, the under 17 taboo. I think it, because I think that that’s like, age there.

I, I think it only gets weird, as I’ve said before, when you’re talking about other kids like the fact that we. Count a 17-year-old sleeping with a 17-year-old the same way we treat a 17-year-old who sleeps with a 49-year-old is completely absurd in in many states.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, I think we also need to acknowledge that before age 25 or so people’s impulse control just isn’t all there.

People aren’t, their brains aren’t fully myelinated, so. We should, well,

Malcolm Collins: where this gets really bad is you get something like a, a girl will like send nudes to her boyfriend, right? And now all of a sudden she’s a child sex trafficker. Like, what? Like that’s, that’s completely absurd to judge her the same way we judge an actual child sex trafficker.

Simone Collins: This video is so getting demonetized. [00:31:00] I’ll, I’ll, I’ll cut around it,

Malcolm Collins: don’t worry.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Don’t be able to tell what’s going on. Back

Simone Collins: to spiteful mutants. Okay. So the,

Malcolm Collins: the actual summary of the theory goes like this, okay. You look at these progressives and you can see they look mutated. And he, he says, if you look historically in society, around 50% of people died before the age of one.

Oh, yes. You had a lot of things that killed people when they were young. A lot of diseases killed people in society, basically killed the weak. And he argues that a lot of what we think of as progressives and we can even see, it’s just like phenotypically looking at them. Mm-hmm. They are people who historically would’ve died at a very young age due to.

Just being, being

Simone Collins: weaker.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And this is actually a bigger thing than just like Idiocracy, right? We live in a society where because these people aren’t dying and haven’t been dying for generations at this point the, the negative physiological effects [00:32:00] are often paired with negative psychological effects.

And this is just something, you know, from research. Like if you’re familiar with research, this is just a true thing. Like mm-hmm. If you are, for example, taller, you’re likely to be higher iq. I’m sorry that’s offensive, but it’s just true. If you have a stronger heart, you are likely to be higher iq.

If you are better looking, you’re likely to be higher iq. And IQ correlates with all sorts of other mental stuff, right? Like you’re, you’re likely to have you know, more of an internal locus of control, more of all of these other traits, right? And, and he’s just, and

Simone Collins: this isn’t a, we’re not trying to say that these people are trash.

I’m one of those people that would’ve died. I had Scarlet Fever when I was a kid. I had really bad pneumonia. There are several times when I would have just died, so

Malcolm Collins: I. Do not think you fall into this category, Simone. I think most women would be quite jealous to look like you at your age. Or even just be It’s true.

It’s true. Simone, you’re almost 40 at this point. Okay. I don’t think our audience [00:33:00] realizes how crazy, young and good you look for a 40-year-old.

Simone Collins: Oh, that’s sweet of you. Husband goggles. Am I right guys? This guy. Anyway, go on though. I, I, what I’m saying though is, is this is no like inherent judgment on them.

We’re talking about biological terms here and it is true that, yeah, a lot of people just got cu out because.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I think a better way to put it is, you know, for, for any right wing intellectual to coin the term spiteful Newton, that it was Ed Dutton. I’m not saying anything about, you know, physiography. The point being is that it’s also true that you can judge. And we’ve done episodes like AI can do this really, really well and humans can do it pretty well. Judge a person’s political orientation judge a person’s personality just by their physical. Physical features.

We have an episode called like pheno. Phonology is that, phonology is back phonology we go into in a lot of detail. Mm-hmm. But I’ll go into a writeup on Spiteful Mutant so we can get sort of a deeper understanding of this. Okay. Excellent.

Simone Collins: Thank you.

Malcolm Collins: The spiteful mutant theory, also known [00:34:00] as the, so she apostasy amplification model.

CEAM is an evolutionary hypothesis that attempts to explain certain modern social cultural. And demographic trends through the lens of genetics, natural selection, and societal changes. It’s primarily associated with evolutionary anthropologists Edward Dutton, along with collaborators like Michael Woody of many.

And the core idea posits that harmful genetic mutations, which would’ve been weeded out in pre-industrial societies due to high child mortality rates, around 50% are at 18 hundreds are now accumulating in human populations because of medical advances and reduced selective pressures. These mutations allegedly not only reducing individuals reproductive fitness, eg lower leading to lower fertility or maladaptive behaviors, but also.

Spitefully harm the fitness of others around them through social influence, creating feedback loop that amplifies dysfunction at group or societal levels. The concept draws from evolutionary biology, [00:35:00] particularly studies on social eis . Interactions between genes across individuals that affect group behavior.

It was formalized in 2017 by Woody of many and others building on observations from animals. For instance, research on mice showed that deleting specific genes in LLG in three, in some individuals not only disrupted their own social behaviors, but also lowered testosterone levels and altered hierarchies in unaffected wild type.

It ate effectively externalizing the mutation’s cost. Dutton’s popularized the spiteful mutants label in books like Spiteful Mutants, evolution, sexuality, religion, and Politics In the 21st century. Framing it as a zombie apocalypse were mutated. Individuals promote ideas that undermine, so social stability such as antinatalism.

Atheism or extreme political ideologies. He argues this has accelerated since the industrial revolution when child mortality plummeted below 1% in advanced societies, allowing mutations estimated to [00:36:00] affect 84% of the genome related to brain function to proliferate proponents extend this to human society suggesting the spike mutants are more likely to embrace maladaptive views like leftism belief in the paranormal and social justice movements like BLM, which they claim overall reduces fertility.

And use social species like insects or humans and groups. These mutations disrupt adaptive norms leading to phenomenons, such as declining religiosity, rising neuroticism, and even isolation. And he pauses. This could lead to things like mass shootings. I mean, look at the recent mass shooters and stuff like that.

Mm-hmm. The one that tried to assassinate Trump and failed. I mean, this is like the definition of a spiteful mu, right? And you also see this in this individual’s very unusual arousal patterns, right? Like, this, this was a, an unusual arousal pattern that likely wouldn’t have had much. Now people thought that it was furries that he was into when it wasn’t.

It was ultra muscular female bodies and some furry art happened to have that. [00:37:00] But I, I think sort of what I’m pointing out there is, is you see a psychological ab, ab abnormality paired with a physiological abnormality. And, and this is a normal thing, right? You know? And, and I note here because we talk about the way arousal passing rates work not all ab let’s say non normalized societal arousal patterns are due to something misfunctioning, right?

For example, getting turned on by being in a submissive situation or getting turned on by being in a dominant situation depending on your gender, can be extremely evolutionarily advantageous and is seen in social signaling across mammal species. A great example that we use a lot that I won’t get that into is a lot of mammals use the sexual signal for being mounted.

To show their submissiveness to another species in a non-sexual context, but that likely means that their sexual code is being reused in this [00:38:00] context, right? Mm-hmm.

EEG in mammal species where males are dominant and , one of them like raises its butt to be mounted or something like that because it’s showing submission to another one. Within a non-sexual context, we can guess that arousal is causing that behavioral patterns or in mammal species where females are dominant, like spotted hyenas and erections are a sign of submission.

See other things we’ve done on this, it’s a very interesting phenomenon, , that it is arousal that causes the erection of the pseudo penis in females or penis in males in the species when they are trying to sow submission to another of their same species. The dominance and submission, , leading to arousal behaviors, , in human populations.

, Within certain displays when you put certain contexts on, this is not an abnormal or weird behavior. This is just part of basic mammal biology.

Malcolm Collins: And so we know this is happening in other species, and it’s a normal part of [00:39:00] communication in social mammals and that these, these systems can be accidentally turned on.

Doesn’t mean that like, there’s something like fundamentally wrong,

and this is true of all sorts of different,

The point I’m trying to make here is that if you accidentally teach people that normal arousal patterns are abnormal arousal patterns, they can begin to define themselves as abnormal when they are otherwise normal, which allows groups that are genuinely abnormal to signal to them and say, Hey, you are one of us.

Come join us. , We see this a lot within Mormon communities, for example, where people are like, oh, you like porn, then you must be this evil deviant, , come join our community. , And this is used to peel people out of the community. , A really great example of this was that woman who started to brainwash all these Mormon wives to believe that their husbands were evil because they liked porn and then used it to, , do these really horrible abuses of their children.

It was this really different episode.

If you want more info on this, look up Jody Hildebrandt and Ruby Frankie, the [00:40:00] eight passengers, Mormon mom.

Malcolm Collins: but something like being attracted to. Female bodybuilders that is quite there. There’s no like evolutionary reason. That’s a clear, like super normal stimulus of something being just flipped a wrong at some point in development.

Anyway. I also think in use social species is very interesting here. So for people who aren’t familiar use social species or species like ants and stuff like that, humans are not a used social species. Mm-hmm. But ants when ant gets sick or is acting in a way, I assume that would show some sort of like genetic genetic defect, the other ants of their colony will kills them and take them outta the, the, the nest.

Well, they don’t risk damaging the, the, the colonies cohesion.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So, you know, be aware that your

Simone Collins: social species doesn’t mean nice.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I mean, I think that the, the the what, what, what they talk about here in mice is really, really, really fascinating. That the negative genetic modification of one [00:41:00] mouse can lead to.

I mean, think about this in, in regards to our broader society here, right? Like that experiment was specifically looking at to testosterone production in mice. Could you say that genetic mutants within our society that previously would’ve been. Weed it out are now causing the, the huge drop in testosterone we’re seeing throughout society.

Hmm. And it, and it is really important when we’re talking about like the use social species and weeding this out from within a species that human societies used to do this. We’ll be doing an episode, I don’t know if it will go live after or before this, but we’ll go over the anthropology of the concept of the.

The witch that lives in the woods, like the old crone that lived in a, in a bog or out outside town or something. Swamp PS swamp, PAGs. And we historically at like a folk cultural level had a fear of mutants or genetically. Disadvantaged people, I guess we’ll call them. And we built our [00:42:00] societies to exclude them first.

I mean, there’s a reason why the woman who looked weird lived outside of a town at at, at the bog, right? And not in the village was everyone else. But we also built like a collection of signs to identify them. How, how do you know this person? Well, they, they, they walk with a hunch. They have an ugly face.

They talk to themselves a lot. Maybe like that would be a sign of a witch, right? They practice. A lot of mystical beliefs which, which, you know, belief in the paranoial, belief in, in, in mysticism. Because even, even, you know, you go back to the Puritan Society or something like that, it’s not even that society like, didn’t believe that those things are potentially real.

You just didn’t engage with it. Right. But I don’t think that the way we see those things, I think if you’re like a sane. Individual religiously or secularly today, you understand that engaging in mysticism, engaging in the supernatural is very [00:43:00] damaging to the people who do it and is correlary to this physiological damage.

If you think about your typical you know, mystic. Right. Even, even respected mystics what, what do they look like? They’re, they’re dirty. They, they