Bad People

On the 6th of March 1995 Scott Amedure reveals his growing sexual attraction to a friend in front of a large studio audience. Behind the scenes, Jonathan Schmitz is waiting to meet a secret admirer. Jonathan is led on stage of the Jenny Jones Show and each man is revealed to the other. Scott’s face lights up but Jonathan’s expression is inscrutable, and the crowd erupts with laughter around them. Just three days after filming, Jonathan Schmitz shot his friend Scott in the chest, killing him there and then. But was Schmitz fully culpable? What happens when shame becomes public? On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen question the duty of care producers have to contestants, the line between entertainment and exploitation, and the consequences of public humiliation on a national scale. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultant for The Open University: Dr Sarah LaurenceCommissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBC

On this episode of Bad People, producer and journalist Georgia Catt speaks to Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen about her new BBC podcast, Burn Wild.Georgia tells Julia and Sofie the story of the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), a group of radical underground environmentalists known as ‘elves’ and together they examine how a movement that never killed anyone became the FBI’s number one domestic terror threat. Should we ditch the term ‘eco-terrorism’ and how far can we go to stop the planet from burning?CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editors: Anna Lacey and Martin Smith Music: Matt ChandlerCommissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBC

A popular chef instructor at a culinary school in Oregon is found shot dead in the campus kitchen. Police think it’s a homicide but have trouble establishing a motive. There are intriguing similarities between the gun that killed Chef Brophy and one belonging to their prime suspect, but they are not the same weapon.On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen ask what we really know about the increasing concern surrounding unregistered firearms or “ghost guns”. Can deadly weapons really be manufactured on 3D printers, who is supplying them and do they make it easier to get away with murder? CREDITSPresenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Assistant Producer: Editor: Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr James MunroCommissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBC

In 2009 London taxi driver John Worboys was found guilty of raping one woman and sexually assaulting five, as well as twelve charges of drugging women while they were passengers in his cab. Following a high-profile trial he was given an indeterminate prison sentence as it emerged that there may have been more than 100 victims. However, there was a public outcry when it was announced in 2018 that Worboys was to be released from prison on parole after serving just ten years in custody. How does the parole system balance the rights of the individual prisoner against the responsibility to protect the public? And are they always right? On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the purpose of parole, whether every criminal can be rehabilitated and if it is ever acceptable to lock someone up for life. CREDITSPresenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence and Dr Ailsa Strathie Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBC

In 1989 Kiranjit Ahuwalia set fire to her sleeping husband who was found running around their front garden. It emerged that she had suffered years of abuse at his hands, but is it possible to defend yourself against a sleeping attacker? This case forced the courts to examine the way that years of abuse may cloud your judgement, and specifically; what constitutes “provocation”? On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether provocation can ever be a “slow burn” and what this case tells us about how the courts, and society, view intimate partner abuse.CREDITSPresenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field, Kat Dunn and Laura Northedge Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence and Dr Ailsa Strathie Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBCBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBC

In 2014 the ex-partner of video game maker Zoe Quinn released an online essay with intimate details of their relationship and breakup. The story takes on a life of its own when internet trolls start referencing it in misogynistic conspiracy theories posted on online forums. Soon Quinn is bombarded with serious threats of real world violence. When details of where she lives circulate, she flees her home. Quinn was only the beginning as the harassments spread to others who were advocating for an inclusive gaming industry. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen share their own experience of having an online presence and discuss what online harassment really is and who is behind it. Whose responsibility is it to make the online World safe? The episode contains audio from BBC News. Warning: This episode contains descriptions of terrorism, threats of sexual violence and online abuse.CREDITSPresenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Editor: Anna Lacey and Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence and Dr Ailsa Strathie Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBCBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

During the German occupation of the Netherlands two shy teenagers, Truus and Freddie Oversteegen, were recruited into the Dutch Resistance. They quickly went from circulating illegal newspapers to seducing Nazis and German collaborators in bars before luring them into the woods…In this episode of Bad People, recorded live at the Edinburgh Fringe, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen tackle ethical questions: When should children be allowed to take part in war and under what circumstances? And is killing ever justified?This episode contains audio from BBC Reel.Warning: This episode contains descriptions of violence, genocide and murder.CREDITSPresenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field and Marnie Chesterton Assistant Producer: Kate White Editor: Erika Wright and Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence and Dr Ailsa Strathie. Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBCBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In September 2015, Martin Shkreli quickly became ‘the most hated man in America’ after he raised the price of the life-saving drug, Daraprim, by more than 4,000% - almost overnight. Instead of apologising or hiding away, Shkreli decided to lean into his villain image, with even more media appearances and antagonising acts. In an interview with The Hustle magazine, Shkreli was quoted as saying: “People want a villain,” “If people derive some psychological benefit from that, then I don’t want to deprive them of it. I’ll be your villain.” Shkreli lied with regularity, harassed female journalists and even took on the Wu-Tang Clan. At his securities fraud trial almost 200 jurors were ‘excused’ during jury selection because as one juror said: “The only thing I’d be impartial about is what prison this guy goes to.” In part two, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the latest research on ‘hate’. Why do we hate? Whom do we hate? And can one love to be hated? They also talk about jury selection and whether it is ever possible to have a completely unbiased jury.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Anna Lacey #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In September 2015, Martin Shkreli’s name made headlines. He quickly became ‘the most hated man in America’ after he raised the price of the life-saving drug, Daraprim, by more than 4,000% - almost overnight. He was vilified by the press and the public alike and was often referred to as ‘pharma bro’, a representation of everything that was seemingly wrong with Big Pharma. Was Martin Shkreli unfairly singled out? How was any of it legal? And is ruthlessness in business justified?This is part one of two. On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss greed and whether it’s inherently bad. This episode includes audio from the 2021 documentary ‘Pharma Bro’ by Blumhouse Productions, directed by Brent Hodge. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Anna Lacey #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

During an operation in 2013 a nurse sends the surgeon, Dr Simon Bramhall, a sharp look. He shrugs it off and tells her “this is what I do” and continues to burn his initials into the patient's newly transplanted liver. Later, Dr Bramhall argues that dark humour is a way to take the pressure off when working in a high-pressure hospital job. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the nature of dark humour and how an unusual crime was eventually prosecuted. Where should we draw the line between “funny” and “harmful”? And was Dr Bramhall’s explanation plausible? CREDITSPresenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Editor: Erika Wright Music: Matt Chandler The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence and Dr Ailsa Strathie Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBCBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

If you‘ve already made millions and you know you’re being watched, why keep offending?Curtis Warren was one of Britain’s wealthiest drug barons, who had a remarkable journey from the streets of Liverpool to the summit of the international cocaine trade. He was the first person to trade directly with the notorious Cali Cartel in South America, and the courts eventually asked him to pay back an incredible £198 million.Yet Curtis Warren has spent the majority of his adult life behind bars, unable to enjoy his ill-gotten gains. So if you’ve already made a fortune from crime, and you know the authorities are on to you, what keeps you going back for more? Why wouldn’t you just lie low and enjoy spending your money? Is it a career, a habit, an addiction, or something else?On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw is joined by Livvy Haydock from the podcast ‘Gangster’, which tells the story of Curtis Warren from the streets of Toxteth in the 1980s to becoming Interpol’s ‘Target One’.This episode contains clips from the BBC Radio Five Live podcast Gangster: The Story of Curtis Warren.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Livvy Haydock Producer: Ben Motley Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBCBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Daniel Petric grabbed his father's 9mm handgun from a lockbox and while his siblings were away shot both of his parents. He had been planning his revenge for a week. Before he made his escape in the family minivan, Daniel grabbed the one thing this was all for: the Halo 3 video game his parents wouldn’t let him play.The Defense argued that Petric’s sense of reality was altered because of all the video games he played. Can his love of video games help explain why he attacked his parents? Or is that idea ridiculous?On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the hidden harm caused by child-to-parent-violence-and-abuse (CAPVA), and explore the latest research on whether violent video games can make us violent in real life.Warning: This episode includes graphic descriptions of violence and domestic abuse.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Martin Smith #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 1987 in the town of Royal Tunbridge Wells, a “peeping Tom” is spotted lurking by the windows of women. Soon after, Wendy Knell and Caroline Pierce are both found brutally murdered and sexually assaulted after their deaths. Thirty year later, a special task force dedicated to cold cases finally track down the man who became known as the “Bedsit Killer”. The case takes a nasty turn when the police make a horrifying discovery at the killer’s home. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen unearth the secret life of the UK’s most prolific necrophile and discuss what legal protection and rights a dead body has. Also - is calling someone a monster ever justified in the court room?Warning: This episode contains descriptions of violence, necrophilia and child abuse. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar, Anna Lacey and Martin Smith. #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

US politician, Katie Hill, is one of the first politicians to openly identify as bisexual while campaigning for office. However things quickly take a turn for the worse as she is entangled in a scandal, and the media share naked photos of her in a sexual relationship with a younger female member of staff. Would the fallout have been different if she had stayed in the closet?In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality.In this episode, they discuss “revenge porn”, why fewer bisexual people are out at work (and in politics) than lesbian and gay people, and they review the science of threesomes. Warning: This episode includes mention of suicide, sexual refences and some swearing. The episode contains audio from Vice NewsCREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producers: Simon Rata and Emily Bird Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

Omar comes to the UK after falling in love with a British woman. After his relationship breaks down, he seeks asylum, claiming it is unsafe for him to return to The Gambia because he has been persecuted and assaulted for being bisexual. But can he prove his bisexuality in court? Can anyone?In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this episode, they discuss research on the difficulties faced by bisexual aslyum seekers, the consequences of coming out as bisexual in relationships, and instances where their own sexuality has been seen as performative.Warning: This episode includes some swearing, violent scenes and references to sex.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producers: Simon Rata and Emily Bird Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar#BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

Police officers are locked in a pub in New York. People attempt to set the building on fire. And a riot begins. It spreads across the city and lasts for a full three days. But what triggered the riots? And how did it lead to the Pride marches we see all over the world today? In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this episode, Julia and Sofie discuss the origins of Pride marches, how they make their own sexual identities seen, and the history of bisexual symbols.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producers: Simon Rata and Emily Bird Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar#BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

Running a bookshop might sound like the epitome of a quiet life. But for one man, the act of selling a very specific book resulted in his arrest - and led to the publisher of that book taking his own life. What made it so controversial?In celebration of Pride Month, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality.In this first episode, they discuss the origins of sexuality research and their own sexual identities. Warning: This episode includes mention of suicide and some swearing. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producers: Simon Rata and Emily Bird Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar #BadPeople_BBCCommissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. They discuss research on how we can measure sexuality, what REALLY happened during the Stonewall uprising, and the bi-acivists who fought to make pride happen.This is Bi People.

John McAvoy’s biological father passed away shortly before he was born, leaving him to be raised by a community of women. As a child, John loved history, was bright and ambitious and wanted to leave his mark on the world. He also happened to be Micky McAvoy’s nephew, a notorious criminal and the mastermind behind Brinks-Mat, the biggest gold heist in UK history. Soon what started as a childhood dream to own British Telecom turned into a career as an armed robber. But John turned it all around in prison where he found a love for sport. This is the inspiring and unlikely story of a man who went from spending one full year in solitary confinement, or 'segregation' as it’s called in the UK to being a Nike sponsored athlete. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss The Nelson Mandela Rules and the concept of ‘engineered segregation’.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultant for The Open University: James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 1983 Kieran Patrick Kelly, who was living on the streets of London at the time, was brought into Clapham Police Station for attacking and stealing an old man’s watch and wedding ring. Kelly murdered his cell-mate during his first night in custody for snoring too loudly. While under questioning he went on to willingly confess to multiple other murders the police didn’t know about nor suspect him of – essentially he willingly confessed to being a serial killer. In this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss risk perception, the limited research around spontaneous true confessions and why distinguishing fact from fiction is incredibly difficult in this case. Warning: This episode includes graphic descriptions of violence. This story was researched by RTÉ in Ireland and Third Ear in Denmark, the producers of the 2020 podcast, The Nobody Zone. All of the audio is from this podcast.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

After six years of inactivity, the Unabomber is back. The FBI reinvigorate the investigation and the chase begins once more. When Ted Kaczynski’s brother, David, finds an earlier version of the Unabomber’s Manifesto among a series of letters from Ted to their mother, he calls the FBI. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss Kaczynski’s childhood, dubious psychological testing at Harvard University and challenge the media narrative that he was some sort of ‘criminal mastermind’. In court, Kaczynski’s lawyers wanted to plead insanity, but that proved difficult. Warning: This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and terrorism.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultant for The Open University: Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

From 1978 to 1995, Ted Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, built and mailed a series of homemade bombs, killing three people and injuring many more. Kaczynski lived alone in a cabin in the woods, in Lincoln, Montana and documented his ‘failures’ and ‘successes’ in code, in a personal journal. His targets were university professors, technocrats and anyone seen to further, as he saw it, technological development. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen unpick what motivated Kaczynski’s violent behaviour. It turns out that Kaczynski was inspired by French anarchist philosopher, Jacques Ellul, fears about technology. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen reflect on their own “technophobia” and how it affects their lives. Warning: This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and terrorism.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

On the 20th of April 1934, eight-year-old Helen was sent to buy bread for her mother. She reached the bakery around 1.30 in the afternoon, spent exactly 4 dimes and was seen returning home by a few neighbors. But she never made it all the way and later that day her parents, friends and the police began a search that lasted through the night. What do Aberdeen, a half-loaf of bread, and the history of forensic science have in common? In this episode of Bad People, recorded live at the festival Granite Noir, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the impact of bias on forensics, the use of bacteria in analysing crime scenes and the way in which fingerprints are actually compared – hint, it’s not like the movies. Warning: This episode contains strong language, descriptions of violence, child abuse and sexual violence.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 1998 Matthew Shepard, becomes the victim of radical homophobia in Wyoming. Two suspects, Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson are almost immediately taken into custody and charged. The “gay panic” defense is used in court. But, does it work?Shepard becomes the poster boy for the horrific consequences of anti-gay hate, and his case helps to re-define hate crimes in the US. Celebrities get involved, marches are held, and a decade later, in 2009, the United States Congress passes the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act.In this episode Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss research on the seven shades of homophobia, what defines a hate crime, and explain the flawed logic behind the “gay panic” defense, also called the LGBTQ+ panic defense.Warning: This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and homophobia, including homophobic slurs.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

A Bad People special episode will be available shortly. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen speak to Gordon Corera, the Security Consultant on Killing Eve.They discuss ‘dry cleaning’, secret recording devices and fake identities.

Klenice grew up in a village in rural Western Kenya. When both her parents passed away, she dropped out of school and started working to support herself. The father of her first child also died unexpectedly and by the age of 22 she was a single mother. What drives a mother to sell her own child? And who facilitates such a sale?In 2019, BBC Africa Eye launched an investigation into Kenya’s black market for babies. Presenter Njeri Mwangi worked on the yearlong undercover operation and joins Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen to discuss the result, the documentary ‘The Baby Stealers’. Who buys babies on the black market? And how much should a journalist intervene to stop a sale? Njeri talks about the individual stories that most affected her, the fallout once the documentary was published, her hopes for the future and even the feminist motorcycle club she’s part of, the Throttle Queens.The episode contains audio from the documentary by BBC Africa Eye, The Baby Stealers. Warning: This episode contains references to child trafficking, kidnap, and suicide.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultant, The Open University: James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

The Iceman, Richard Kuklinski, was a notorious contract killer. Over the course of his ‘career’ he, by his own admission, killed over 100 people. Some were contracted murders – hits - others were victims of revenge and a few were just at the wrong place, at the wrong time. Richard Kuklinski had links to the Gambino family, was efficient and killed in a myriad of ways. In the process, he made himself, and his family, rich. Who hires contract killers? What is the interview process like? And do you have to be stone cold to do well in this line of work? In this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the different typologies of contract killers, how much a hit costs and why looking to hire a hitman off the dark web may just lead one to being scammed. Warning: This episode includes graphic descriptions of violence. All of the audio in this episode comes from two HBO documentaries: Clips 1, 3 and 5 are from The Iceman Tapes: Conversations with a Killer (1992) and clips 2 and 4, from The Iceman Confesses: Secrets of a Mafia Hitman (2001). CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 1998, Christopher Alder spent the evening at the "student night" of a nightclub in Hull, England. The night escalated dramatically and eventually lead to a national conversation about racism and the police's treatment of Black people. A video released years after Alder's tragic death revealed audible "monkey noises", reviving the discussion about the case and the important issues it raises. In this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the circumstances that led to Christopher Alder's death, and how the case relates to Stephen Lawrence and the MacPherson report. They discuss institutional racism and why white people need to identify and dismantle their own white fragility. Warning: This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and racism.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

When day-care employee, Kelly Michaels, is accused of playing the piano naked in front of children, she is speechless. The case escalates and soon Kelly Michaels is faced with charges of outlandish crimes. The trial changes her life forever. She spends years in prison before being exonerated. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen are joined by writer Jon Ronson, who interviewed Kelly Michaels for the podcast “Things Fell Apart”. They discuss how her case was part of a the Satanic Panic in the US, a wave of conspiracy theories that told tall tales of child-abusing Satanists. This episode contain clips from the New York Times and BBC Radio 4, Things Fell Apart.Warning: This episode includes descriptions of child abuse. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants from The Open University: Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBCBad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Three friends - Babs, Els and Marcel - jump out of a plane together. They are regular sky divers and as they approach the ground they activate their parachutes. Els' parachute fails, as does her reserve parachute. She falls the remaining 1000m to her death. Was it a tragic accident or was it murder?In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen debate their differing views on monogamy. They discuss the psychology of jealousy: what makes someone jealous and does it serve any purpose? This episode contains audio from AP archive. Warning: This episode includes mention of suicide and some swearing. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simon Rata Researcher: Emily Bird Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

When Clifford brokers a small drug deal he doesn’t know that the police are listening in. Clifford is arrested and when the case goes to trial, the recording of the deal is not allowed into evidence by the judge. But the testimony of the police officer is. This becomes the focal point of a courtroom drama that makes it all the way to the Supreme Court of Kentucky. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen are joined by our scientific advisor from the Open University, Dr Lara Frumkin. Her expertise on how the way you speak impacts verdicts, sparks a debate about how the Supreme Court Justices voted in Cliffords case. They examine how racism gets passed down through generations of court rulings and how aversive racism can go undetected. Warning: This episode includes discussion of racism and strong languageThis episode contain clips from ABCnews and CBS, The Late Late Show with James Corden.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants from The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBCBad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Studies show that nearly half the UK population have experimented with bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism (BDSM). It is surprisingly common, so why did a group of men practicing BDSM end up in prison? Should we police what people do in the bedroom?On this episode of bad people Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the “rough sex” defence. Is it an opportunity to get away with murder or a necessary part of the legal framework? This episode contains audio from BBC Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour and the documentary When Sex Games Go Wrong, produced by Caitlin Kelly. Warning: This episode includes graphic descriptions of violence and some swearing.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simon Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC

Mary Linnen, a woman in her late 20s, had just gotten engaged and she wanted to lose some weight for the wedding. Her doctor prescribed a combination of drugs called Fen-Phen. And it worked instantly. She lost weight but then she also started to lose her breath a lot. Other agonising symptoms soon followed including swelling of legs and stomach. Mary becomes one of the first Fen-Phen victims of which there are thousands. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the extreme lengths and risks that people are willing to take to be thin and the industry that profits from fatphobia. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBCBad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

On the 27th of August 2015, a chicken truck is abandoned in Austria when smugglers realise the worst has happened. The tragedy shook Europe and lead to changes in immigration policy.In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the difference between human trafficking and people smuggling, the risk-reward ratio for the criminal networks involved, their estimated financial turnover, and why many people smugglers are both victims and perpetrators.The episode also dissects the decisions the driver of the truck, his accomplice and their immediate superiors made that day, and the distorted rationale behind it.Warning: This episode includes graphic descriptions, and mention of death, including the death of children.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

23rd April 2018 was the date selected by John Doe as the day he would kill as many residents of Toronto as possible. Witnesses describe seeing a white van mount the pavement on busy Yonge Street and run down pedestrians. Ten people sadly lost their lives. John Doe drew inspiration from the misogynistic online “incel” movement: groups of men who blame their lack of sexual activity on women and resent sexually “succesful” men. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss why people become incels. Are incels dangerous? And what can be done to stop people subscribing to this ideology in the first place. This episode contains audio from the documentary Inside the Secret World of Incels produced by BBC Three and audio from Ben Hurst’s TED talk. Warning: This episode contains descriptions of violence, specifically targeted violence towards women, murder, and mentions of suicide.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBCBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

When Robert Shafran arrives for his first day of college he is overwhelmed by the friendliness and familiarity of the other students. Dazed and confused, he soon discovers that he is identical to another boy who just left the college. Both are adopted. Robert and his brother, Eddy, are thrilled to find each other and it doesn’t take long before – in an unbelievable twist – a third identical brother comes forward. Their feel-good story brings fame and huge media interests. But the story of long-lost brothers reunited soon turns sour when they discover that “those people” who checked in on them throughout their childhood might have had other motives than their wellbeing. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss how far is too far when it comes to psychological research. This episode contains audio from the documentary Three Identical Strangers produced by CNN Films and RAW TV, directed by Tim Wardle.Warning: This episode includes some descriptions of a sexual nature and some distressful scenes including a mention of suicide.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field and Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland#BadPeople_BBCBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 2009, Belle Gibson shared on her blog that she was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and had only four months to live. She then began documenting her journey of healing via clean eating. When Instagram launched a year later, she quickly amassed a following of 200,000 people, becoming one of the very first wellness influencers. But was she just taking advantage of people's wishful thinking?In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how “wellness” has been conceptualized as a concept that remains forever out of reach, why the veneer of credibility can be so hard to break through, and the famous sceptic Barry Beyerstein’s advice on how to identify pseudo-scientific health claims. Warning: This episode includes descriptions of cancer treatment, and mentions a threat of suicide.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Earlier this year, hundreds of unmarked graves were discovered at Canadian residential schools. What is the truth behind what really happened at these schools? On this episode, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how trauma can be passed from generation to generation and what can be done to heal the wounds caused by such poor treatment of Indigenous Canadians.They debate whether or not intergenerational trauma should be taken into account in sentencing decisions. In Canada, sentencing judges officially have a “role in remedying injustice against Aboriginal peoples in Canada”, should other countries be following Canada’s lead? This episode contains audio from: DW, Wion, CBS and CBC News' Stolen Children Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam ElandBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

When 80-year old Kathleen is called up by a nice man from her computer company she does not suspect foul play. And when he tells her that she is owed a refund, she follows his instructions.Scams costs victims millions every year and the problem is only growing. “Scam-baiter” Jim Browning has had enough of scam-calls and has decided to use their own tricks against them. It is illegal and dangerous work. What Jim discovers is chilling. Scams are a huge industry that involves large call centres and thousands of “employees” that are evaluated and promoted based on their ability to scam unsuspecting victims out of their life savings.On this episode, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss what might motivate someone to earn their living from scams; and what motivates others, like Jim Browning, to take the law into their own hands. We discover the chilling fact that even the most tech-savvy and internet literate can become the victim of a scam.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

The UK’s most prolific rapist only targeted men, but the case is largely unknown. He would wait outside clubs in Manchester and offer men who looked vulnerable a place to charge their phone or call a taxi. Then he would slip the men a drug and rape them while they were unconscious, meaning that the majority of his victims had no idea what had happened to them until they were contacted by the police. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen debate whether or not the police should have told the victims. And they discuss male rape myths and what can be done to make it easier for men to speak up about sexual abuse.Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violenceCREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBCCommissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. This episode contains audio from: Minnow Films and BBC Radio 4

When a young man claiming to be an heir to the Rockefeller estate turns up in a silver Ferrari in The Hamptons in the US, the rich and the famous invite him into their lives. Many are dazzled by his expensive lifestyle so when he offers extraordinary returns on investments, the money pours in. But Christophe is not a Rockefeller and he has no intention of investing the money. He pockets it and goes on the run from the FBI. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen track his unsavoury behaviour that eventually lands him in prison for “abuse of weakness” under French law. They dissect what research has to say about con-artistry and what part lying has in the schemes. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In the late 1970s, a charismatic cult leader, Jim Jones, promised his followers that they would create a utopian community based on Christian values and racial equality. In the jungle in Guyana, South America, Jones started the project and named it after himself: Jonestown. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss why so many people joined and later stayed in Peoples Temple. Once isolated in the jungle, it became hard for the inhabitants to escape and Jim Jones' abuse escalated. The cult ended abruptly after a visit from a concerned US congressman.Warning: This episode includes descriptions of murder, suicide, graphic violence, drug abuse and possibly strong language.This episode contains audio collected by The Jonestown Institute and from The Jonestown Massacre: Paradise Lost by Real Stories produced by Cineflix, Galaxie Production, Film Afrika and NextFilm.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Matt Falder is the UK’s worst “sextorter”. A convicted serial sex offender, he used online accounts to blackmail over 40 victims into sending him naked photos, perform sexual acts and even getting one person commit rape. He was also at the time, a Cambridge University student and one of the Bad People team shares their story of coming face to face with him. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how the online world has created a new type of crime that targets and exploits young people in the most horrific way possible.This episode contains audio from: Sky News, CBSN and National Crime AgencyWarning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violenceCREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

In 1983 Diane Downs carries her three small children into a hospital in Oregon, all suffering from gunshot wounds.The mother explains that she had been the victim of an attempted carjacking, but managed to trick her attacker and escape. However, not long after, the police’s attention turns towards her as a potential suspect. What could lead a mother to harm her own children? In this episode of Bad People, presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the topic of familicide and Julia shares her own family’s close encounter. Warning: This episode includes descriptions of murder and possibly some strong language.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona RataMusic: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro#BadPeople_BBCCommissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Comedian Sofie Hagen takes us back to her childhood where she unexpectedly received a laptop and free holiday from the municipality. The former tax minister, Peter Brixtofte, was the mayor of Sofie’s town and his “generosity” meant that the citizens loved him. But soon people started to ask: where does the money come from for all these gifts? And why are Peter Brixtofte’s restaurant receipts so enormous? And why are big companies suddenly donating huge sums to the small local football club?On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether Peter Brixtofte was a modern-day Robin Hood or a crook. Why do we love anti-heroes? This episode was recorded at the London Podcast Festival in front of a live audience. This episode contains audio from: Danish Broadcasting Corporation (DR) and DK4 CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Peter Sutcliffe, better known as the Yorkshire Ripper murdered 13 women and attacked many others. The case involved 5 million hours of mostly futile police work and sparked angst and fury among women. Could he have been stopped sooner?On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how the police were sidetracked in their investigation by confirmation bias and sexism and how women responded with “Reclaim the Night” marches across the country. Warning: This episode includes descriptions of sexual violence, murder and possibly some strong language. This episode contains audio from: The Yorkshire Ripper Files: A Very British Crime Story produced by Wall to Wall, BBC Archive, BBC AUDIO – BRASSTACKS, BBC News, John Humble and ITV.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr. Zoe Walkington & Dr. Camilla Elphick#BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Con-artists. Corruption. Cult leaders. Murders. Rapists. Extortionists. Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen are back soon with stories of the worst among us and the research that can help us understand how and why someone might turn bad. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

25 years ago, a man walked into Dunblane Primary School and opened fire on a gymnasium full of school children. The horror of this event led to a change in gun legislation - did it work?The US has more school shootings than any other country in the world, should the US adopt the UK’s gun legislation?On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss who is to blame for school shootings and what can be done to prevent them. This episode includes audio from the documentary Dunblane: Our Story, produced by STV Productions Ltd & Berrif McGinty Films Ltd.Warning: This episode contains strong language, discussion of violence towards children and suicide. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

We continue the story of the notorious Nazi officer and organiser of the Holocaust, Adolf Eichmann, as he goes on trial in Israel. Political theorist Hannah Arendt covers the case, and like so many others, expects to see a monster in a glass cage. Instead she arrives at the chilling conclusion that Eichmann is not a criminal mastermind nor a “monster”, but a dim-witted bureaucrat. Her description upset many people, because how can something so terrible as the holocaust happen? Surely the devil himself must be behind it?“Despite all the efforts of the prosecution, everybody could see that this man was not a “monster,” but it was difficult indeed not to suspect that he was a clown”, Hannah Arendt wrote in her famous article for The New Yorker. The experience led her to coin the phrase “The Banality of Evil”. Humans, she explains, do terrible things for ordinary reasons, such as turning up for work every day. In Eichmann’s case, this included making sure that trains full of Jewish people arrived at the death camps on time. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen examines Hannah Arendt’s work and what it means for how we understand great acts of violence and antisemitism. “Evil comes from a failure to think. It defies thought for as soon as thought tries to engage itself with evil and examine the premises and principles from which it originates, it is frustrated because it finds nothing there. That is the banality of evil”, Hannah Arendt, The New Yorker, 1963. This episode includes audio from the short series of educational films, The Eichmann Show, created for the BBC, produced and directed by David Barrie.Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violenceCREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. #BadPeople_BBC

Our story starts in Argentina in 1960. A middle-age man is on his way home. As he gets off the bus, hooded men grab him and shuffle him into a van. The man is Adolf Eichmann and the hooded men are Israeli intelligence officers. They smuggle him to Israel to stand trial for his role in the Holocaust. As a prominent Nazi in Hitler’s Third Reich, Eichmann organised the deportations of millions of Jewish people to death camps. He gets the chilling nickname “The Architect of the Holocaust”. The trial was broadcast globally and onlookers watched on in horror and disbelief as the crimes of a seemingly normal man were lay bare. On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen dissect Eichmann’s morally dubious defence that he was “just following orders” and was acting within Nazi law. And they unpick the controversial research that led scientists to question whether all humans are capable of great harm under the right circumstances.This episode includes audio from the short series of educational films, The Eichmann Show, created for the BBCWarning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violenceCREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan HaskinsBad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.#BadPeople_BBC