AND/BOTH Podcast - Real Conversations, Shared Experiences, and the Community You've Been Missing

What does it mean to break a cycle when you’re still inside it? Michelle Gibson is a psychotherapist, CEO of Gibson and Associates and the Nest Collective, and a mom of one, and she has spent her career helping people find language for experiences they were never taught to name.In this conversation, Michelle and Ashley cover a lot of ground: childhood trauma and the path into psychotherapy, the complicated terrain of parent estrangement, why adverse childhood experiences are disproportionately common in entrepreneurs, and what it looks like to lead a business and a family, from a place of genuine self-connection rather than survival mode.It’s an honest, warm, and unexpectedly funny conversation about doing the work while also just trying to get dinner on the table.In This EpisodeHow Michelle’s childhood (alcoholism, trauma, adverse childhood experiences) led her to psychotherapyThe magnetic effect of finding language for what you’ve been throughWhy social-emotional learning in schools is changing what middle school looks like for kids todayReparenting yourself while parenting someone else — and the double labor that involvesThe rise of estrangement from parents and what’s driving itMichelle shares her own experience estranging from her father — and why having a daughter changed the calculationAshley shares her own experience with estrangementWhy entrepreneurs so often come from hard childhoods — grit as a survival responseThe moment Michelle looked up from years of grind and realized she’d been in survival mode her whole lifeWhat it means to lead from a heart-led place versus a fear-led oneThe privilege of support — naming it honestly so other parents don’t compare their back end to someone else’s front end“Your parents’ ceiling is your floor” — and how Michelle thinks about expanding that for her daughterResources & LinksGibson and Associates: gibsoncounselling.caThe Nest Collective: thenestcollective.caEmail: [email protected] or [email protected] Michelle on LinkedInConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

What happens when two of the biggest life transitions collide at exactly the same time? For grief coach Sarah Kagan, that meant losing her mother at six months pregnant and learning to live through loss while preparing to bring a new life into the world.Sarah is a mother to two young kids, a former corporate professional who walked away from her career to follow a calling, and someone who is building a platform to change the way we talk about grief, especially in the workplace.In this conversation, Ashley and Sarah dig into what it really means to grieve in real time, why the pressure to “be strong” is one of the most isolating things we do to each other, and what it looks like to hold loss and love at the same time, without having to choose between them.In This EpisodeWhat it means to be a “motherless mother” and why grief hits differently once you’re a parentThe moment at her mother’s Shiva that taught Sarah everything about how we avoid griefWhy “you’re so brave” and “at least she’s not suffering” do more harm than goodThe martyrdom trap — and how stepping out of it changed everything for SarahThe statistic that 51% of people leave their jobs within a year of a major lossHow Sarah rebuilt her work life after leaving corporate — no 9-to-5, Wednesdays for arts and crafts, out by 4pmWhy grief needs a better spokesperson (and what menopause got right)The problem with bereavement leave policies that tell you who you’re allowed to mournAshley opens up about losing her father to suicide and the shame layered on top of certain kinds of lossHow to slow down after caregiving — and why your body will eventually make youSarah’s grief workbook and creative morning kits: where does the love go when someone dies?Quotes From This Episode“There’s so much pressure to cover up or perform or just show up and be like, yeah, I’m fine. But it is a big deal and you need someone else to validate that experience for you.” — Sarah Kagan“Trying to put a period on something that’s an ellipsis.” — Sarah Kagan, on toxic positivity around grief“No one helps you speed up. They just throw it at you and you do it." — Ashley BlackingtonConnect with SarahFind Sarah on LinkedIn: Sarah KaganWebsite: keriahcoaching.comInstagram: @griefcoachsarahConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, host Ashley Blackington sits down with Caroline Benefield—digital marketer, stepparent, and someone who found herself living a decade of life in 18 months. Caroline shares what it really means to become the third parent in a blended family, how she navigated losing both parents while building a new family dynamic, and what happens when your dream job turns out not to be your dream.Between January 2022 and June 2023, Caroline got engaged, bought a house, moved in with her fiancé and his two kids, lost both parents, managed two estates as an only child, canceled her wedding, got married on her back porch, left corporate life, wrote a romance series, and started a digital marketing business. Through it all, she's been learning how to show up as a secure, trusted adult in her stepkids' lives—with boundaries, intention, and a lot of therapy.In This Episode-What it means to be "the third parent" in a blended family—not the replacement, not the villain, but an additional secure adult-Why Caroline's approach is about enhancing existing support rather than reinventing the wheel-How she and her husband decided which parenting responsibilities she'd take on—and which ones stay with the biological parents-The importance of moving into a new house together rather than slotting into an existing family home-Navigating grief while building a new family—losing her father after a decade-long decline and her mother suddenly within 18 months-Estate planning lessons: why her mom's organized estate closed in 9 months while her dad's is still open after 4 years-What happens when your dream job (becoming a romance author) turns out not to be your dream-Why she started a digital marketing business specifically for moms and women—the people shortest on time with the most to give-The fiber arts connection: how teaching the kids to crochet and needlepoint became a way to share something her own mom taught herKey Quotes"My job as a stepparent is not to reinvent the wheel in their lives. My job is to come in and give them extra support and resources to navigate all of the complications and emotions that come with little bodies and little brains."— Caroline Benefield"If you are not married to your partner and you don't intend to be, please, please set them up for success. Please set everything up."— Caroline Benefield on estate planningResources & LinksCaroline's website: southerngritdigital.comServices: Digital marketing for creatives, entrepreneurs, moms, and women (email marketing, compliance audits, digital ads, full-service packages) Action Steps for Listeners1. If you're dating someone with kids: Ask yourself if you can be a safe and secure adult in their lives. That's the starting point.2. If you're in a blended family: Have clear conversations about boundaries and responsibilities before integration gets messy. Who handles discipline? What decisions require both biological parents?3. Estate planning reminder: Set up rights of survivorship, trusts, and clear documentation. Even if you have a will, it's not enough if things have to go through probate.4. If you're a long-term partner but not married: Make sure you're set up legally. Your partner's kids will be next of kin, not you, unless paperwork says otherwise.5. Therapy isn't optional: Caroline, her husband, and their relationship all have their own therapy. It's how they navigate the hard stuff.6. For moms and women entrepreneurs: If you're at the point where you know you need marketing help but don't know where to start, visit southerngritdigital.com.Connect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

This episode encourages embracing the messy middle, shedding old identities, taking small intentional steps, and cultivating a growth mindset as we navigate life's many transitions, personally and in parenting.Big question - What happens when the identity that once kept you strong… starts to burn you out?Dr. Anne Welsh shares her work supporting ambitious, working moms, and emphasizes the complexity of personal change. Ben Katt discusses his experience with spirituality, community, and social healing, focusing on midlife transformation. We touch upon letting go and the importance of small changes, especially in parenting and the evolving relationship with children, as well as the importance of celebrating small victories amidst self care. Discover practical insights on how small shifts, self-reflection, and celebrating milestones can transform your experience of change and growth.Key Topics:How to navigate the fear of letting go of old identities and armorThe concept of the "hero's journey" and the call to adventure in midlifeSmall, intentional shifts versus major life upheavals for meaningful changeThe importance of slowing down, reflection, and micro-moments of joyParenting milestones as rites of passage and opportunities for celebrationAddressing grief and loss in parenting and personal transitionsEmbracing a growth mindset about aging and continuous learningPractical tips for self-trust, desire-led choices, and pacing oneself during changeConnect with Anne:https://www.linkedin.com/in/drannewelsh/www.instagram.com/drannewelsh/www.drannewelsh.comConnect with Ben:www.benkattofficial.comModern Elder Academy Book: The Way HomeWithin Prison Meditation Project SubstackInstagramConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, host Ashley sits down with Nikki Weiss- digital thanatologist, project manager, and founder of Endevo, for a candid, eye-opening conversation about the intersection of caregiving, death planning, and our increasingly digital lives. Nikki brings not just professional expertise, but hard-won personal experience: she lost her father at 11, became her mother's primary caregiver at 21, later cared for her grandmother through dementia, and is now supporting her daughter as she navigates a caregiving role for her fiancé, diagnosed with stage four brain cancer.Together, they tackle the questions most families avoid and make the case for why starting the conversation early isn't morbid; it's one of the most loving things you can do.In This EpisodeWhat thanatology is and why the "digital" specialization matters more than everNikki's personal caregiving journey: losing both parents young and what that shaped in herThe "panini generation" why today's sandwich generation feels more squeezed than everWhy most caregivers wait until crisis to plan and the real cost of that delayThe project management approach to end-of-life planning: de-emotionalizing the process so families can actually do itHow to build a caregiving community instead of letting one person absorb everythingThe "silver wave" of late-life divorce and what it means for adult childrenDigital legacy: what happens to your phone, social media, subscriptions, and photos after you're goneGrief bots, digital avatars, and QR codes on headstones the emerging world of digital memorializationWhy you need a Digital Legacy Advance Directive alongside your will and medical POAThe Final Playbook: Nikki's framework for building a comprehensive end-of-life planKey Quotes"Live fully, die ready. Carrying an end-of-life plan is like carrying an umbrella on a rainy day — if you carry it, you won't need it. If you need it, you know where it is."— Nikki Weiss"Death is indiscriminate. It doesn't care how old you are. We'll all die one of three ways: sudden and unexpected, a terminal diagnosis, or a long decline. You better have a plan for all three."— Nikki Weiss"The most humanistic experience we will all go through is death, dying, and incapacitation. What keeps me focused is this concept of human equity."— Niki WeissAction Steps for ListenersHave the conversation before a diagnosis forces it. Pick a low-stakes moment (Nikki suggests the day after Thanksgiving).Know the three core legal documents: will/estate plan, power of attorney, and medical advance directive.Add a Digital Legacy Advance Directive — designate someone to manage your digital accounts and assets.Take inventory of your digital life: phone passcodes, social media accounts, recurring subscriptions, online financial accounts, and stored photos.Build a caregiving team — no single person should carry the full load. Identify who handles what before it becomes urgent.Visit finalplaybook.com to start building your own end-of-life plan.Connect with Nikihttps://official.endevo.lifehttps://www.youtube.com/@DigitalLegacyPodcasthttps://www.endevo.life/https://final-playbook.passion.ioConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

What does it look like to make a huge life pivot in the middle of raising small kids—and during a global pandemic?In this episode, Ashley talks with Danielle Alvarez, a mom of three who walked away from the business she’d spent years building and went to law school with a six-, five-, and one-year-old at home. Now a corporate attorney with her own small business-focused firm, Danielle shares what it really looked like to start over, and how she made room for ambition without sacrificing everything else.This is a conversation about redefining success, letting go of timelines, and figuring out what actually feels right—instead of chasing what’s expected.Whether you’re in the middle of a pivot, thinking about one, or just trying to hold your own dreams alongside your real life, this one’s for you.We talk about:– Making a big life change when the timing isn’t ideal– Doing things differently than the “traditional” path– Ambition, burnout, and the pressure to do it all– Parenting while building something new– Starting a business that reflects your values– Letting go of old expectations (and other people’s opinions)Connect with DanielleLinks + Resources:Website: sblslaw.comLinkedIn: Danielle Alvarez, Esq., MBAEmail: [email protected] with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Burnout doesn’t always show up as falling apart.Sometimes it looks like holding everything together for too long.In this episode of AND/BOTH, Ashley sits down with Sarah Smith — founder of Iconoclast Innovations, mom of two, and self-described iconoclast — for a deeply honest conversation about motherhood, mental health, and rebuilding yourself after burnout.Sarah shares her experience navigating postpartum anxiety and depression during the pandemic, being laid off multiple times, starting a business while pregnant, and learning how to advocate for herself in a system that often loses sight of mothers after birth.Together, Ashley and Sarah talk about identity shifts after becoming a parent, why burnout is information (not failure), how community and support can be lifesaving, and what it really means to choose yourself and your family — even when it’s messy.This episode is for anyone who has ever wondered: Why does this feel so hard — and am I the only one struggling?You’re not alone. And you’re not doing it wrong.Connect with Sarah:Website: https://iconoclastinnovationsllc.com/Connect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

What do you get when you mix startup experience, mother-of-a-newborn energy, and a deeply broken system for working parents?You get Recess.Amy Kiska is the co-founder and CEO of Recess, a platform parents are calling “the Booking.com of kids’ activities.” In this episode, she joins Ashley to talk about building a tech company while parenting a newborn, the invisible mental load of managing care coverage, and the bold decision to solve a problem most people don't recognize until they’re drowning in it.Amy shares what it took to launch Recess, including fundraising 10 days postpartum, and how she’s designing a business that helps families and providers thrive.This conversation covers:The truth about camp registration (and why it feels like the Hunger Games)How Recess supports both parents and activity providersThe underestimated power of mom-foundersBuilding a company without pretending you’re doing it aloneAnd why some of the best ideas are born in the bath 🛁Connect with Amy:Website: hello-recess.comSocial media @hellorecess on Instagram and TikTokConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

What if fertility and reproductive health were treated like skincare or mental health, something we talked about before it became a crisis?In this episode of AND/BOTH, Ashley sits down with Sam Diamond, co‑founder of Bird & Be, to talk about building a clinically‑backed fertility company in the middle of a global pandemic, and why proactive, inclusive fertility care matters more than ever.Sam shares the deeply personal experiences that shaped Bird & Be’s mission, including miscarriage, fertility treatment, and the gaps she saw in education, access, and support for both women and men. Together, Ashley and Sam explore why fertility conversations are still too reactive, how male fertility remains stigmatized, and what it looks like to build a company rooted in science, ethics, and care.They also talk about:Launching a startup during COVID — and why at‑home testing was harder than expectedWhy male fertility must be part of every fertility conversationThe shift from “cute” branding to clarity as Bird & Be entered retailWhat it took to land Bird & Be in Ulta — and why placement matteredHow early education and testing can shorten or even prevent long fertility journeysWhy women are not “small men” — and how research still fails women’s bodiesBlending motherhood and entrepreneurship without pretending it’s balancedThis is a conversation about health, agency, science, and building systems that actually support people, not just sell to them.Connect with Sam: Bird&Be site: https://birdandbe.com/Connect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

This week on AND/BOTH, I’m joined by Nomiki Petrolla, founder of Theanna and a mother of four who is reshaping what early-stage entrepreneurship can look like for women in tech.Nomiki has spent 15 years in the tech world, sitting beside founders, engineers, and venture-backed teams, often as the only woman in the room. That experience eventually led her to build Theanna: a platform designed to support women tech founders from idea to launch.In this episode, we talk about:Why women are turning to entrepreneurship not out of ambition alone, but out of a desire for agencyThe realities of building a startup with four young kidsHow AI is completely changing what’s possible for early-stage foundersWhy venture capital isn’t the only — or even the most aligned — path for most entrepreneursThe difference between building your first business for money and your later ones for meaningHow motherhood sharpens clarity, decision-making, and boundariesWhat Nomiki is noticing about the next wave of women building techSustainable entrepreneurship vs. the unicorn mythology we’ve all absorbedIt’s a conversation about choosing your own path, understanding your season, and building something that fits your actual life, not a version of life you’re supposed to pretend you have.Connect with Nomiki:Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn: @nomikipetrollaTheanna: @theannaioConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this solo episode, I’m taking a moment to pause, look back on Season 9, and share what’s coming as we head into a new year and our tenth season of the AND/BOTH podcast.This season brought so many meaningful conversations on the mental load, the realities of modern motherhood, how we build community, what comfort and safety look like in hard seasons, and the ways we try (and often fail) to carry less than we’re used to. We also continued our roundtable series, with thoughtful, deeply resonant conversations about grief and holiday burnout that so many of you reached out about.I talk through:The themes that kept surfacing across episodesWhat these conversations revealed about burnout, expectations, and the pace we’re all trying to keepThe “colander list” moment with my friend Meg and why it hit me squarely in the chestWhat it’s been like to grow a tech company, run a podcast, and raise four kids during a very full seasonWhy we’re taking a short break before Season 10What you can expect when we return in the new yearAnd I share an invitation: if you’ve listened to the show and haven’t yet heard your version of motherhood reflected, I would love to bring more voices and stories into the mix. You can submit a guest interest form at andbothpodcast.com.We’ll be back in January with Season 10—rested, reset, and ready for the next chapter.Wishing you a holiday season with at least one hot coffee, a moment of actual rest, and something small that fills your cup.Connect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

This week on AND/BOTH, I’m joined by Lauryn Warnick, CEO and founder of Villain Branding. Lauryn shares how she went from film school to tech startups to leading a verbal-first brand consultancy—and how the business has grown and shifted alongside marriage, motherhood, and the many seasons real life brings.We talk about:Building a business that doesn’t pretend life at home is pausedWhy B2B storytelling has more impact (and heart) than most people expectWorking with a spouse and figuring out routines that actually workThe pressure of being the primary income earner while raising young kidsMoving away from “balance” and toward navigating what each season asks of youThe Disney moment that unexpectedly reframed flexibility, boundaries, and perspectiveThis episode is full of the conversations that don’t always make it into the highlight reel—how we work, how we parent, and how we keep adjusting the picture as life keeps changing.Connect with Lauryn:Website: www.villainbranding.comLinkedIn: Lauryn WarnickConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, I’m joined by Brea Starmer, founder of Lions & Tigers, a company she started after being laid off while seven months pregnant and serving as her family’s primary income. What began as survival quickly became a new way of thinking about work: flexible, skilled, sustainable, and built around real life.We talk about the myth of stability in traditional employment, why so many women and caregivers are pushed to the margins, and how blended teams and fractional work are giving people more agency than ever before.And of course, we talk about the real-life side of it all- parenting, logistics, exhaustion, boundaries, and the seasons where everything feels like “a lot”… and also deeply purposeful.In this episode:The layoff that sparked Lions & TigersHow Brea built her own maternity leave through freelance workWhy blended teams are becoming essential in enterprise companiesHow AI, caregiving, and shifting workplace norms are reshaping careersWhat it actually looks like to build a business while raising three kidsThe skill of knowing what’s worth your time (and what you can let fall through the colander)Connect with Brea:Lions & Tigers: lionsandtigers.comWorkforce Reimagined studyConnect with Brea on LinkedInConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

November Roundtable: The Holiday Overwhelm Episode with Paige Connell & Allie McQuaidThe holidays are supposed to feel warm and joyful- but for most moms, they also come with nonstop logistics, emotional labor, and a running mental checklist that never really turns off. And for millennial moms especially, the expectations feel higher than ever.In this month’s roundtable, Erin Holland (PG-ish Podcast) and I are joined by Paige Connell (@sheisapageturner) and Allie McQuaid (@millennialmomtherapist) for a conversation that goes right into the thick of it: the mental load, the pressure to make things magical, the generational friction that shows up the minute you walk into a family gathering, and the complicated mix of joy and burnout that this season brings.In this episode we cover:Why the holidays hit so hard when your plate was already full in JulyThe “fun mom” pressure and why it doesn't make sense, when you’re the one noticing, planning, packing, and rememberingHow early messaging around anger and emotions shows up again in motherhoodThe emotional gymnastics of blended families, divorced parenting, and juggling multiple householdsWhy social media intensifies holiday expectations (and how to spot what’s actual life vs. content creation)What our kids really remember and why it’s almost never the expensive or elaborate stuffHow to rethink traditions, drop the “shoulds,” and pay attention to what actually brings joy or easeThe permission to let this year look different than last year (or any year)It’s honest, relatable, a little funny, and full of the kind of “oh right, it’s not just me” moments that make the holidays feel a little more doable.Listen in, especially if the season feels like a lot before it’s even started.Connect with Paige and Allie:Paige Connell — @sheisapageturnerAllie McQuaid — @millennialmomtherapistConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, I sit down with Kendra Koch, the founder of Divergently, a private community built for late-diagnosed neurodivergent women who want clarity, support, and a softer landing than the internet usually offers.Kendra came to this work through her own late diagnosis, years spent in the Silicon Valley wellness world, and a growing sense that the tools available to neurodivergent women were either too shallow, too loud, or too overwhelming to actually use. What started as her personal search for answers eventually became Divergently- a curated, trauma-aware space built to help women understand themselves and make daily life feel less chaotic and more doable.We cover a lot in this conversation, including:What it feels like to receive a diagnosis later in lifeWhy so many women only start connecting the dots after their kids begin evaluationsThe emotional and logistical realities of navigating care, systems, stigma, and uncertaintyHow trauma keeps showing up in ways many of us don’t expectThe difference between “having information” and actually being supportedWhy “just disclose at work” isn’t simple — or safe — advice for everyoneHow creating boundaries inside a community can be what makes it truly inclusiveThe small, practical shifts that make life less prickly: body doubling, environmental tweaks, lowering the bar in smart, supportive waysAnd how Kendra is building a company while raising a young child, healing, and moving at a pace that fits her real life — not the one hustle culture demandsThis conversation is thoughtful, honest, and full of moments that made me rethink how we support ourselves and each other. If you’ve ever felt like something wasn’t quite adding up, or you’ve been searching for a place that feels safe and steady, you’ll feel seen here.Where to find Kendra:Website: joinedivergently.comSocial: @joinedivergentlyLinkedIn: Kendra KochConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

For more than 100 episodes, AND/BOTH has shared conversations with women navigating identity, care, and capacity — and this week, the conversation widens.In this episode, I sit down with Michael Perry, founder and CEO of Maple, to talk about what it means to be part of what he calls “the transition generation” — a time when fathers are learning to show up differently, families are renegotiating what partnership looks like, and the systems that support us are still catching up.Michael is a father of two, a husband, and a founder who’s building technology designed to make the invisible work of family visible, to help parents collaborate better, share responsibilities, and stay connected in the chaos.We talk about what’s shifting in modern parenthood, what’s still broken, and how we can bring more empathy, participation, and grace into our homes, without turning our families into another project to manage.💛 In this episode, we talk about:What it means to be part of the “transition generation” of fathersWhy partnership is more than division of labor, it’s shared leadershipThe systems that fail families (and what it might look like to rebuild them)How to have better conversations at home about what’s working and what isn’tThe difference between intention and participationWhy grace and gratitude are essential tools in family lifeAnd how to find your 8 out of 10 days — the perspective shift that can change everythingThis episode is for you if:You’re navigating how to balance partnership and parenting in real lifeYou’re curious about how fathers are experiencing this cultural shiftYou want to build more empathy and communication at homeYou’re ready to talk about family as shared work — not a scorecard🔗 Resources & LinksMaple: growmaple.comFollow Michael Perry: @michaelperry | LinkedIn: Michael PerryConnect with Maple: @growmapleConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, I sit down with Jennifer Westpfahl, founder of Be.Retreats, to talk about what it looks like to build a life and a business that make space for rest, intention, stillness, and connection — and how those four pillars spell something else entirely: RISK.Jennifer shares the winding story of how B-Retreats came to life, not from a business plan or a strategic vision, but from a feeling that just wouldn’t go away. What began as a simple women’s weekend at a cabin has evolved into a growing series of in-person and virtual retreats designed to help people slow down, reconnect, and live with more authenticity.We talk about:🌿 The unexpected journey of saying “yes” to something before you have it all figured out💛 How rest can feel risky in a world that glorifies busyness🪞 The identity shifts that come with motherhood, empty nests, and growing older🔥 Why community and connection matter more than perfection🕯️ And what it really means to stop — not just pause — and allow yourself to beConnect with Jennifer:Website: beretreats.coInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/jmwestpfahl/Be.Retreats Instagram: @beretreatsmnConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this second half of my 100th episode conversation with my friend and poet Megan Leonard, we talk about what happens when we finally start letting go of what’s not working.We call it The Colander List — a way of noticing what’s naturally slipping through, what’s too heavy to hold, and what we might finally have permission to set down.This conversation isn’t about getting more efficient or organized. It’s about capacity, trust, and the space we create when we stop trying to do it all.Meg and I talk about:🌀 What it looks like to stop chasing balance and start listening to yourself🌿 The difference between quitting and releasing💛 How friendship holds up a mirror when we’re growing✨ And how joy shows up when we finally make room for itThese 100 episodes have been about showing up for honest, human conversations, the kind that remind us we don’t have to do it all to live fully.Connect with Meg:Instagram: @megan_leonardpoetryBooks: Book of Lullabies (Milk & Cake Press) and Larkspur Queen (Broadstone Books)1:1 Writing Mentorship: DM Meg on Instagram; mention AND/BOTH for her 2025 pricing if you book your intake before Dec 31Connect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/