
Show overview
Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer has been publishing since 2015, and across the 11 years since has built a catalogue of 463 episodes, alongside 2 trailers or bonus episodes. That works out to roughly 240 hours of audio in total. Releases follow a weekly cadence.
Episodes typically run twenty to thirty-five minutes — most land between 29 min and 34 min — and the run-time is fairly consistent across the catalogue. Roughly 27% of episodes carry an explicit flag from the publisher. It is catalogued as a EN-language News show.
The show is actively publishing — the most recent episode landed yesterday, with 17 episodes already out so far this year. Published by Legal Talk Network.
From the publisher
Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
Latest Episodes
View all 463 episodesStealth Layoffs And Sam Alito On Tilt
Are There Any Adults Left At The Department Of Justice?
Kash Patel's Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Week
Law Firms Are Drowning In Cash. Trump's PAC Is Drowning In Legal Bills.
Rankings Drama Hits Law Schools, Law Firms
Trump's Awful No Good Day At The Supreme Court
S1 Ep 458Afroman And Elon Had Very Different Trial Experiences
And the DOJ had an atrocious week. ------ Rapper turned First Amendment hero Afroman took his frustration over a heavy-handed police raid on his Ohio home and turned it into music. When the officers sued him for millions for hurting their feelings, a jury told them to take their $3.9 million demand and pound it like lemon pound cake. Unfortunately, what happened to Afroman happens all the time in America and there's not a lot being done to stop it. Meanwhile, the Department of Justice had a rough week, catching headlines for lowering hiring standards and running interference to protect Jeffrey Epstein's accomplices. That's before a judge literally tossed a DOJ lawyer from the courtroom over the U.S. Attorney's Office operating without any legal oversight. And Elon Musk went into court to argue that he wasn't fraudulent, he's just stupid. Jurors decided it's possible to be both.
S1 Ep 457AI Hallucinations And Judicial Derangements
And Legalweek talk. ------ It was Legalweek last week, and we discuss the big happenings from the show -- which is pretty much all AI talk -- but while we saw splashy product announcements about the future of working as a lawyer within an AI-enhanced workflow, an assistant U.S. Attorney got bounced from the job for letting AI run too much of the workflow. But the most imaginative large language models wouldn't have predicted opening a federal judicial opinion with the phrase "swinging dicks." That takes a special level of deranged that's pure Judge Lawrence VanDyke. The certified non-qualified occupant of a Ninth Circuit seat kicked off an official taxpayer funded rant about wokeness framed as vulgar trolling to appeal to the White House. His colleagues -- most of them anyway -- issued a plea for decorum, that went basically nowhere.
S1 Ep 456John Roberts Suffers The Slings And Arrows Of Pure Rage Trump
And the bar examiners prove once again that they don't care about anyone but themselves. ----- After striking down the Trump administration's tariffs, Chief Justice Roberts has earned nothing but disrespect and abuse from the president he put in power. From a hearty handshake and Trump telling him, "Thank you, won't forget it" last year to getting bypassed in the handshake line at this year's State of the Union, it's been a long strange trip for Roberts. And yet he wouldn't have it any other way because for Roberts, ritualistic humiliation is a small price to pay for dismantling the Voting Rights Act. A blizzard took out the Northeast right before the bar exam and examiners... did not care. And another wrinkle in the AI legal advice discussion, with a different court ruling that chat prompts used in preparing a legal defense are shielded from discovery.
S1 Ep 455Supreme Court Airs Dirty Laundry
Things get testy down at the courthouse. ----- The Supreme Court struck down Donald Trump's effort to use IEEPA to impose arbitrary tariffs across the world and in the process delivered around 170 pages of epic shade. Meanwhile, the administration informed prospective military lawyers that they're no longer allowed to attend the top law schools in the country, presumably because the Pentagon is getting tired of lawyers who can actually identify a war crime when they see one. Finally, the public got another look at how lawyers do their job and predictably overreacted. Les Wexner's attorney got caught on a hot mic giving his client... blunt advice and a court ruled that "wings" don't mean "wings."
S1 Ep 454AI Takes The Blame, Epstein Takes The Careers
And law students finally get some good news. With a Biglaw firm officially blaming staff layoffs on AI, what is it going to look like if and when layoffs come for lawyers? It's unlikely to look the same for every Biglaw business model. And it could look even more different for boutiques. Embattled Goldman Sachs chief legal officer Kathryn Ruemmler announced that she'd be leaving her role after her Jeffrey Epstein connections came out in the last file dump. And we found out that the late Ken Starr thought of Epstein as a brother, which tracks. We also saw the first majr firm strike a blow against the expedited law school recruiting cycle.
S1 Ep 453Epstein Fallout Rocks Legal As Admin Tries To Deflect From ICE
This is likely only the beginning of the reckoning. ----- As predicted on last week's episode, Brad Karp left the top post at Paul Weiss following the disclosure of friendly correspondence with Jeffrey Epstein. But Karp wasn't the only Biglaw lawyer in the files, nor were his conversations the most troubling. A former Clifford Chance trainee drafted a sex contract with Epstein, Goldman Sachs GC Kathy Ruemmler made a joke with Epstein that normally you wouldn't make with someone who already pleaded guilty to child prostitution charges, and Alan Dershowitz managed to drag Paul Weiss into the case again when people found sex tourism legal analysis in the files from a now-Paul Weiss partner... passing along Dershowitz's thoughts. Meanwhile in Minnesota, a DOJ lawyer called out the broken immigration system before literally asking to be held in contempt so she could get some sleep. which is what happens when an administration breaks the legal system so thoroughly that even its own lawyers can't keep up with the chaos. And legal tech took a financial jolt as Anthropic announced its entry into the legal tech space.
S1 Ep 452Accountability In An Age Of Unaccountability
Between Epstein files and ethical breaches, a reckoning seems so close yet so far. ----- A flurry of stories hit the legal world all at once last week, with the government responding to another ICE killing in Minnesota by... arresting journalists and dumping Epstein files. And while the Epstein files don't represent the entire universe -- or, perhaps, even the most relevant -- files about Epstein's dealings, they have set off downstream shockwaves in the legal industry. Meanwhile, another judge learns that we frown upon judges arbitrarily handcuffing lawyers. Finally, it's time for the profession to come together behind helping our self-regulators hold Trump administration lawyers accountable. The ethical breaches keep adding up and while there's never going to be the warranted criminal law reckoning, we can at least make sure our profession is protected by disbarring all these administration lawyers getting caught affirmatively lying to courts... and worse.
S1 Ep 451Trump's Cook Case Looks Cooked
After taking a hacksaw to nearly a century's worth of congressionally approved independent agencies, the Supreme Court appeared to hit a wall during oral argument over Trump's attempted firing of Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook. The Unitary Executive Theory is all fun and games until the justices start worrying about their personal finances. Meanwhile, the Department of Justice now takes the position that the text of the Alien Enemies Act would have authorized the unilateral deportation of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones for being part of the "British Invasion." Finally, Willkie Farr hit with massive lawsuit alleging the firm helped out a former client's fraud.
S1 Ep 450Alienating Our Affections
Supreme Court hacking and the end of a Biglaw era. ------ The Biglaw world continues to watch single-tier partnerships slip away with Sullivan & Cromwell joining the income partner trend. Will the industry have any single-tier firms left by the end of the year? Also former Senator and current Hogan Lovells lawyer Kyrsten Sinema tagged with an alienation of affection tort from her former bodyguard's soon-to-be ex-wife. Come for the bad soap opera plot, stay for the MDMA-inspired psychedelic trip allegations. Finally, the Supreme Court got hacked, but federal law enforcement managed, a couple years after the fact, to track down the culprit whose social media handle was "ihackedthegovernment." Cracker jack work all around.
S1 Ep 449Minnesota Becoming A Constitutional Law Issue-Spotter
And Judge Ho's auditioning for MAGA favor takes a disgusting turn. ------ With polls showing more Americans now favor abolishing ICE than keeping it, a lot of people will be disappointed to learn that the law is set up to make it almost impossible to hold anyone accountable for killing Renee Good. From sovereign immunity, to the Federal Officer Removal Statute, to the decline of Bivens, to qualified immunity, the whole system is arrayed to shield federal agents from legal redress. Speaking of the Minnesota ICE surge, we moved a step closer to a genuine Third Amendment case after the Department of Homeland Security pressured Hilton Hotels into dropping a franchisee that had refused to rent rooms to DHS. And finally, Judge James Ho published a broadside against fellow judges in his bid to reach the top of the Trump administration's Supreme Court wishlist. And all he had to do was mock judges receiving violent threats and dishonor a judge's murdered son.
S1 Ep 4482026 Prediction Time!
Welcome to another dumpster fire of a year. ----- We begin the year by peering into our crystal balls and issuing some predictions for 2026. Who will be fired? What's going to happen with law schools? Is a big change on the horizon for Biglaw? Our predictions will inevitably be wrong, but we'll offer them with a lot of confidence -- just like AI would. Also a whole lot of sports talk for a law podcast.
S1 Ep 447A Look Back At The 2025 Dumpster Fire
Three trends dominated this year's coverage. ----- We've made it to the end of the year! And what do we have to show for it as a profession? Our most elite law firms signed deals rather than stand up for themselves in the face of illegal Trump bullying efforts. Others quietly tried to erase their history to avoid the administration's ire. But some firms did fight back and achieved consistent success in court, while the dealmakers got heckled and derided by young lawyers. And, as anyone who has ever watched Star Wars knows, deals with authoritarians just get worse all the time. The New York Times even wrote a feature on a certain publication covering this story. We also ran headlong into a constitutional crisis marked by DOJ lawyers lying to courts -- when the DOJ even bothers to field lawyers legally -- senior government officials declaring "war" on federal judges, and judges being arrested. As right-wing threats against federal judges escalated, the Supreme Court responded with disinterest, preferring to fan the flames with nakedly partisan shadow docket rulings to grease the wheels of Trump's assault on the structure of government. And, finally, we look at the year of AI in legal. Hallucinations dominated the conversation -- from law firms and judges alike -- but this was also the year legal tech made huge bets on AI and folks started to realize that the profession can't avoid the technology. The billable hour may finally be on the decline, but does AI risk making lawyers dumber?
S1 Ep 446Closing Out The Year With Mergers And Attacks On The Rule Of Law
Ho ho ho...gan Lovells merging. ----- A critical analysis of the best variety of Coca-Cola product gives way to a conversation about law this week. Cadwalader ends its tumultuous year -- involving a Trump administration capitulation and a series of defections -- with a big quasi-transatlantic merger announcement with cross-Pond Hogan Lovells. Christmas came early -- to the extent anyone thinks of U.S. News law school rankings as "Christmas" -- with a prediction about the new law school pecking order. And it looks like garbage at a time when those rankings may be more important than ever. Also, ICE appears to be publishing an enemies list? That doesn't seem great. All that and some thoughts on Alan Dershowitz writing a new book suggesting Trump might be able to get a third term despite the clear text of the Constitution.
S1 Ep 445At Least The Robots In The Coming War Against Humans Will Understand War Crimes
If you want 2025 in a nutshell, it doesn't get much better than a blundering Secretary of Defense bragging that the Pentagon bought an expensive, bespoke AI bot and it immediately started calling out the Trump administration for committing war crimes. As the legal industry ventures into a hallucinatory AI frontier, it's worth remembering that sometimes the bots outperform the human lawyers. At the Supreme Court, Justice Sotomayor tries to convince her colleagues not to blow up the federal government over a theory concocted in the 1970s. Sadly, she's fighting the wrong fight. And in a world of mergers -- especially cross-border mergers -- we have a reminder that sometimes it doesn't work out.