Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Celeste Gross joins the girls to talk about her experiences growing up in the Children of God - aka the Family - along with her many siblings. She explains how her parents joined when it still just seemed like a beautiful gospel movement that helped her dad get sober, but how it changed over time once they lived on a commune in Brazil and became reliant on donations for survival. She shares how every part of life was controlled–down to how many squares of toilet paper they were allowed to use.They discuss the media ban the group imposed, and how only songs and TV shows made by the group were allowed--other than two very specific movies (which will surprise you). She shares how her family became homeless overnight after they finally left, and the extreme hardships they faced while trying to rebuild a life from nothing.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week, Dan Olson, creator and host of YouTube channel Folding Ideas, returns to continue the conversation on cryptocurrency and NFTs. They discuss how these bubbles are driven primarily by charismatic leaders, why success rates of investment are similar to MLMs (read: the vast majority of investors don’t win big), and how there’s a lot of shame around having lost money in this arena–but why more men should come forward with their stories.Dan explains why there’s no inherent difference between scam cryptocurrencies and so-called “real” cryptocurrencies, since all are rooted in speculation and faith, where the line is between greed and just being a victim of American prosperity gospel, and what to look out for to prevent yourself from getting scammed.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week, Dan Olson of the YouTube channel Folding Ideas joins the show for a deep dive into crypto, NFTs, and why so many of these spaces start to feel less like finance and more like belief systems. He breaks down the history of Bitcoin, what cryptocurrencies actually are, and how NFTs exploded into the mainstream, with investor communities promising not just wealth, but destiny–as long as they suppress their doubt and stay in line.They discuss the gender divide and whether crypto is MLMs for men: same promises of prosperity, different packaging. Plus, some of the insider jargon and acronyms used to shut down skepticism, and how it all added up to a financial technology becoming a social identity.And stay tuned for part two next week, when Dan will zoom in on the role of charismatic leaders in driving the decision-making.SOURCES Folding IdeasSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week is part two with Liz Cameron, author of Cult Bride and survivor of Korean religious group Jesus Morning Star, also known as JMS. Last week she discussed the slow process of indoctrination into the group, and this week Liz shares how she learned the community's deepest secret: the mysterious Pastor Joshua was actually named Jung Myung-seok, but he was REALLY the Second Coming of Jesus. And yes, he was currently sitting in prison in South Korea for committing sexual assault… but don’t worry, that was just because of persecution.Liz explains how all the carefully planned indoctrination leading up until this point primed her to be able to accept something like this, how she’d been identified to be one of the brides of the leader, what happened when she traveled to Korea to meet him in person, and how the eating disorder re-triggered by the group landed her in the hospital—but ultimately helped her get out of the group. SOURCES Cult BrideSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week is part one with Liz Cameron, survivor of South Korean religious sect Jesus Morning Star (aka JMS, aka Providence), and author of Cult Bride: How I Was Brainwashed – and How I Broke Free. She explains how her entry into JMS began with being approached by a woman in a bookstore for a harmless survey, and how that survey turned into a bible study group full of women who gained her trust and introduced her to their new and exciting Christian church.Liz shares how the group began encouraging her to spend more and more time together and get up earlier and earlier, and how they painted her old church, community, and even family as people who weren’t dedicated enough to Jesus–all as they slowly introduced the idea of an incredibly spiritually devoted man they called Pastor Joshua.Next week: we’ll get into how they began to reveal who Pastor Joshua really was (hint: his name was Jung Myung-seok), his criminal history, and how a god on earth could be sitting in a prison in Korea. SOURCES Cult BrideSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week we’re back with Martina Castro, creator of new Exactly Right podcast Two Faced: John of God, a series about John of God, the famous Brazilian “healer” and “psychic surgeon.” Last week she explained John of God’s so-called healings and doctor spirits that attracted celebrities and visitors from all over the world, and this week Martina walks Lola & Meagan through some of the darker allegations that began to come out.She shares about how the sexual abuse survivors began to come forward with their stories, the deep political influence John of God had in the town that allowed him to get away with it in plain sight for literally decades, and the mysterious disappearances of people in the town. They discuss the dynamics of devotion and denial, and what it takes to finally break the spell. SOURCESTwo-Faced: John of GodDos Caras: Juan de DiosSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week’s guest is Martina Castro, creator of podcast Two Faced: John of God, Exactly Right’s new podcast series about John of God, the Brazilian self-proclaimed healer and “psychic surgeon.” In part one, Martina explains John of God’s history and mythology, how he became internationally famous for his alleged healings (amplified by celebrities like Oprah), and the carefully primed environment he created called “the Casa.” Everyone dressed in white! Crystals! Waterfalls! And of course, lines of pilgrims watching him channel “doctor spirits” to supposedly heal the town's many visitors.They discuss how his “free healings” weren’t as free as promised, his so-called “invisible surgeries” that supposedly worked from across the globe, and the in-person healings he did that involved putting objects up uncomfortably far up people’s nasal cavities. And next week, we’ll get into the explosive allegations that came out during the #MeToo movement. SOURCESTwo-Faced: John of GodDos Caras: Juan de DiosSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week, the show is joined by Parvati Shallow, two-time Survivor winner, current cast member on The Traitors, and author of Nice Girls Don’t Win: How I Burned it All Down to Claim My Power. Parvati shares about her childhood growing up in the Kashi Ashram, a high-control commune led by Joyce Green–or, as she made everyone call her, “Ma”. She discusses Joyce’s origin story and how she claimed to have experienced the stigmata, Joyce’s relationship with Ram Dass (who he later said he’d been bamboozled by her), and how she became increasingly coercive and controlling, including taking children from their parents and instructing members to scam their own families for money.Parvati reflects on how her parents escaped but ultimately came back to the group, what it was like living on the commune and being wild in nature, and how surviving that environment shaped her instincts, resilience, and ability to read people–skills that later helped her win Survivor, and how she’s now unpacking what it means to reclaim her power on her own terms. SOURCES Nice Girls Don't WinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week’s guest is Jenny Eliscu, journalist, radio host, and producer on Britney vs. Spears, which covered Britney Spears’ infamous conservatorship. She explains how Britney’s struggles in 2008 were used to justify a permanent conservatorship—despite the contradiction of her being deemed too incapacitated to control her own life, yet well enough to tour, record, and generate massive income that her father, whom she barely had a relationship with, was in charge of.Drawing from decades of reporting, a personal relationship with Britney, and her work on Britney v. Spears, Jenny breaks down the severity of the conservatorship, stripping Britney of the right to use her phone, make medical decisions, or even have a say in who her lawyer was going to be, and where Britney’s fight to end the conservatorship finally landed.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In part 2 with podcaster & writer Jonathan Hirsch (creator of podcasts like Dear Franklin Jones), Lola & Meagan discuss life in the cult of Franklin Jones, aka Adi Da. They discuss the dramatic meditation rituals in the group, what it felt like to get blessed by the leader, and how different members saw some of the same things that had happened completely differently, depending on whether they still believed in him later or not.They discuss the lawsuits and allegations against Jones and how the cult panic of the time impacted the way his followers saw them, the importance of being able to admit when you’re wrong, and how ultimately Jonathan left. SOURCES Dear Franklin Jones The Mind Is Burning  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week’s guest is Jonathan Hirsch, podcaster, producer, and author who grew up in Adidam, a cult led by new age guru Franklin Jones - also known as Adi Da. In this week’s episode, Jonathan explains how his parents joined the group while on a spiritual journey that started with them following a different guru, how many of Jones’s followers were indoctrinated by listening to his tapes, and the cult’s constantly changing belief system.They discuss one follower’s fascinating experience seeing the doctrine differently after translating it into another language, what it was like growing up on the cult’s compound (with parents that were acupuncturists for the leader), and how helpful it is to know that there are other “cult kids” out there.SOURCES Dear Franklin JonesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week, Trust Me is joined by David Farrier, journalist and filmmaker known for documentaries like Tickled and Netflix series Dark Tourist. He shares about his work studying strange subcultures and conspiracy theorists and what he’s learned along the way, and then dives into his investigation into Arise Church, the largest megachurch in New Zealand.David explains how his interviews with ex members revealed the church’s systemic pattern of exploiting harrowing unpaid internships--with work hours that led to multiple members having mental breakdowns. He discusses the financial exploitation and sexual assault cover-ups that occurred, how it all got exposed, and what became of the church. Plus: a couple of tangents, including one about Hell House, the Christian church-run haunted house that simulates hell to scare you into joining. SOURCES Webworm Flightless Bird PodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week’s guest is Jess Rothschild, creator of documentary podcast "Cult of Body & Soul," which dives into the history of cult fitness brand Soulcycle. She explains the spinning company's origins, how the workout environment was engineered to create an almost religious experience, and why instructors chosen for their devoted followings and special charisma made it a cultural phenomenon.They discuss the social hierarchies that formed inside and outside of class, the mysticism infused into the culture, and what she herself loved about it--and how the corporate takeover of the brand changed everything. SOURCES Cult of Body and SoulSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode 19: Lola Blanc & Meagan Elizabeth interview Elana Auerbach, former follower of sexual wellness company OneTaste--elsewhere deemed the Orgasm Cult--in its early years. Elana discusses being the founder's right hand woman as the program developed, and how the sexual practice involving stimulating a woman's genitals evolved into what's now called Orgasmic Meditation. They discuss how Elana came to center her life around the founder, how she was manipulated, and what snapped her out of it.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Survivor's of Larry Ray's sex cult Felicia and Daniel discuss how they came to meet Larry, how he leveraged his memory and connections to craft an image of authority, how Larry gained control of their lives under the guise of helping them, when the manipulation elevated into sexual abuse and violence, and how they're doing now that Larry is going to jail for the harm he has caused.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week’s guest is Theo Pratt, survivor of Gloriavale, an isolated Christian cult hidden deep in rural New Zealand, and author of Unveiled: A Story of Surviving Gloriavale. She’ll talk about being raised on the strictly controlled commune where people were assigned new names, women wore identical dresses and head coverings, and children weren’t taught the real days of the week—or even where they were in the world.Theo shares about the leader Neville Cooper’s self-proclaimed divine authority, how “smacking ladies” kept the kids in line—and guards kept the compound controlled, and her rebellious streak that led her to planning an escape attempt on a tandem bicycle. And of course, the moment she realized she couldn’t stay, and what it felt like to step into the outside world she’d been taught would destroy her. SOURCES: Unveiled: A Story of Surviving GloriavaleSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Renee DiResta, professor and author of Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality, joins the show again to dive deeper into disinformation, propaganda, and "pseudo-events," or manufactured controversies and news stories.She explains why it’s so difficult to tell fact from fiction online, how propagandists stoke real, often legitimate tensions to create division, how American politicians are amplifying false information instead of shutting it down, and possible policies that could help reduce our culty social media silos.SOURCES Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality The Image: A Guide to Pseudo-events in AmericaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week’s guest is Renee DiResta, professor, and author of Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality. In part one this week, she talks to Lola and Meagan about propaganda, disinformation vs. misinformation, and how social media algorithms push us all into highly individualized, “bespoke” realities.They discuss how she became interested in this topic after social media algorithms started suggesting anti-vaxxer content to her, how rage bait and other emotionally charged material spreads faster, and why social media makes it seem like other people have more extreme views than the majority of them actually do.SOURCES Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into RealitySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week, Lola and Meagan continue their conversation with Mike and Abbi Prussack, former members of Meagan’s childhood church, the 2x2s. In part 2, they walk the girls through the abuse crisis that has shaken the group in recent years and the long-standing patterns that allowed the harm to continue. Mike and Abbi explain how church leadership handled reports, why victims felt they had nowhere to turn, and how secrecy and obedience has shaped the culture for generations.They also discuss the FBI investigation, the community’s response, and what it has been like to help moderate the Ex 2x2 Facebook group during a moment of collective reckoning. The conversation looks at the cost of silence and the pressure to stay loyal, plus why so many people are choosing to finally speak out now. SOURCES Wings for TruthSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week, Lola and Meagan talk with Mike and Abbi Prussack, former members of Meagan’s childhood church, the 2x2s, also known as The Truth or The Way. The couple, who now help moderate the Ex-2x2 Facebook community, share what it was like growing up in a secretive religious group with no name, no building, and strict rules about who could be “in.”They open up about meeting and marrying within the church, the single question that shattered their faith, and how leaving forced them to rebuild their identities from scratch.Next week, part two dives into the FBI investigation, decades of hidden abuse, and what’s happening inside the group now that the truth is finally being exposed.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week, researcher Tim Squirrel joins Lola & Meagan to break down the manosphere: incels, redpill, MGTOW, and the differences between some of the misogynistic subcultures in the online world of men. They discuss how isolation can leave boys vulnerable to harmful internet communities, and how the algorithm can radicalize young people looking for identity.From Andrew Tate to Jordan Peterson, Tim shares why and how hyper-masculine spaces thrive, touting themselves as self-help programs or advocating for withdrawing from society altogether. They chat about why these communities can also be bad for the people inside them, whether Lola has accidentally dated incels, and what to do if someone you know has fallen down the rabbit hole. SOURCES MovemberSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In part 2, Sarma Melngailis, subject of the docuseries Bad Vegan and author of The Girl with the Duck Tattoo, tells Lola & Meagan how Mr. Fox consumed her time, overwhelmed her with information, and dangled promises of financial freedom that was always JUST around the corner as a way to get her to send him more and more money. She’ll share about the fabricated online personas he created as part of the manipulation, how he always knew things it seemed like he couldn’t have known, and the tactics he used to keep her in a constant state of confusion and dependence, driving across the country until they were finally both arrested. Plus, how she felt about her time in Rikers, and the current status of her restaurant. SOURCES The Girl With the Duck TattooSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In part 1 with guest Sarma Melngailis, subject of the docuseries Bad Vegan and author of The Girl with the Duck Tattoo, Sarma shares about her life as the owner of a successful vegan restaurant in New York, how she met the man who called himself Mr. Fox on Twitter when he seemed to know her friend Alec Baldwin, her first impressions of Mr. Fox, and some of the initial red flags she missed.They discuss the way he slowly wormed his way into her life, how he first started asking for money in a way that seemed innocuous at first, and some of the many manipulation tactics he used to coerce her into transferring an astronomical amount of money to him--and ultimately blowing up her life. SOURCES The Girl With the Duck TattooSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.