True Crime Conversations

It’s an unusual place to start a true crime story - at the National Gallery of Victoria in 1985.  The director of the gallery, a man named Patrick McCaughey, purchases a single painting for $1.6 million. Due to currency fluctuations, the cost increases to $2 million, the most expensive purchase ever made by an Australian gallery. The painting is by Pablo Picasso, titled The Weeping Woman. The work represents suffering - oddly fitting for the story that was about to unfold.  Also oddly fitting is the statement made by McCaughey upon announcing the purchase. He said of the Weeping Woman: “This face is going to haunt Melbourne for the next 100 years.”  And haunt Melbourne it did. CREDITS Host: Jessie Stephens Guest: Marc Fennell, host of FRAMED  Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Beyond Blue: 1300 22 4636 | beyondblue.org.au Lifeline: 13 11 14 | lifeline.org.au CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures. Just by reading or listening to our content, you’re helping to fund girls in schools in some of the most disadvantaged countries in the world - through our partnership with Room to Read. We’re currently funding 300 girls in school every day and our aim is to get to 1,000. Find out more about Mamamia at mamamia.com.au Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A plane colliding with the South Tower at 9:59am, on September 11, 2001, would become the first terror attack watched in real-time by millions of people around the world. News anchors struggled to maintain composure. New York, and more broadly, the United States, was under attack.  The north tower continued to burn. Images and video footage were broadcast on every news channel. For a generation, those images would become imprinted on our psyches. We watched as the buildings collapsed, thousands of people still inside them. In a nearby hospital, stood an Australian woman named Liz. For her, it was an otherwise normal day at work. That all changed when she heard an emergency siren. CREDITS Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures. Just by reading or listening to our content, you’re helping to fund girls in schools in some of the most disadvantaged countries in the world - through our partnership with Room to Read. We’re currently funding 300 girls in school every day and our aim is to get to 1,000. Find out more about Mamamia at mamamia.com.au Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s a clear, still Tuesday morning in New York City. The autumn sky is bright blue and the two World Trade Centres mark the highest points of the Manhattan skyline.  At 8:30am the business district is bustling. Workers are making their way into elevators or stopping for a quick coffee. Their minds are on their morning meeting or the kids they just dropped off at school. Most don’t notice the plane flying too low, far too low, until they hear it. A terrible sound pierces through one of the biggest cities in the world, as a passenger plane flies directly into the north tower. Within minutes, the story will go live across the globe.  What they don’t know is that in 17 minutes, a second plane will collide with the south tower. This isn’t an accident. It’s an attack.  On September 11, 2001, 2,976 people were killed as a result of four hijacked commercial airliners. Two crashed into the World Trade Centers, a third targeted the Pentagon, with a fourth aiming for the U.S. Capitol building but brought down in a field by several brave passengers.  Five men have been charged with these acts of terrorism, and the case is the largest criminal prosecution in U.S. history in terms of the number of victims.  But this episode is not about the men responsible.  It’s about how that day truly unfolded, and the nearly 3000 victims who did not know those early hours of September 11 would be their last. CREDITS Guest: Garrett Graff, author of The Only Plane In The Sky Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Rhiannon Mooney & Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures. Just by reading or listening to our content, you’re helping to fund girls in schools in some of the most disadvantaged countries in the world - through our partnership with Room to Read. We’re currently funding 300 girls in school every day and our aim is to get to 1,000. Find out more about Mamamia at mamamia.com.au Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s May 9, 2001, and the family of missing teenager, Natasha Ryan, are holding a memorial service in Bundaberg, Queensland. Today would have been her 17th birthday.  Natasha, with dark brown hair, hazel eyes, and fair, freckled skin, had disappeared on August 31, 1998. She was 14 years old. For almost three years, there has been no trace of her.  Her father, Robert Ryan, and mother, Jenny Ryan, have accepted that their daughter is dead. They may never find her remains. But at this memorial, they say their final goodbyes. Their pain is palpable to everyone around them.  But - as they will later learn - Natasha Ryan is still alive. She’s about 25 minutes away. And in a story unlike anything seen anywhere in the world, Natasha will appear at her own murder trial two years later.  Her story is one Australia won’t ever forget. CREDITS Guests: Tara Brown & Paula Doneman  Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures. Just by reading or listening to our content, you’re helping to fund girls in schools in some of the most disadvantaged countries in the world - through our partnership with Room to Read. We’re currently funding 300 girls in school every day and our aim is to get to 1,000. Find out more about Mamamia at mamamia.com.au Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was December 1982, when 21-year-old Shelly Barnett, described by Vanity Fair as a willowy beauty with strawberry blonde hair, married 22-year old David Miscavige in Los Angeles. She would become the First Lady of Scientology.  Those who knew her described her as shy, often appearing lonely and isolated. At the same time, some witnesses say she was prone to losing her temper, much like her husband.  In all the years they were together, members of Scientology who have gone on the record say they cannot remember any affection between the two. They did not hug or kiss. Theirs was very much a working relationship. They were both dedicated to the Church of Scientology above all else and were busy attracting high-profile celebrities to their church. Their project worked. They recruited Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Elisabeth Moss, Danny Masterton, and Nancy Cartwright.   By 2004, Claire Headley, an ex Scientologist who worked closely with Shelly, said she had begun to crack. “Shelly was cowed,” she said. “She was always stressed. She was never sleeping. She was just run ragged. Because of that, she was often in a bad mood and that’s where some people would just say they hated her. But she was never an evil person... It was just a god-awful situation.” And then, suddenly, Shelly Miscavige, the most high-profile woman in Scientology, vanished.  It was as though she had never existed. CREDITS Guest: Tony Ortega Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures. Just by reading or listening to our content, you’re helping to fund girls in schools in some of the most disadvantaged countries in the world - through our partnership with Room to Read. We’re currently funding 300 girls in school every day and our aim is to get to 1,000. Find out more about Mamamia at mamamia.com.au Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mackay is a city on the Coral Sea coast of Queensland, Australia, located about 970 kilometres north of Brisbane.  It’s known as the sugar capital of Australia, producing more than a third of the country’s cane sugar.  In South Mackay, sits a spacious pub called Harrup Park Country Club. In February 2013, this was one of the last places Shandee Blackburn was seen alive.  The 23-year-old finishes her seven hour Friday night shift and begins to make her way home to her mother’s house in Boddington Street. Wearing dark pants and a dark shirt, Shandee taps out a text message as she walks, not even 15 minutes from her destination. It’s warm outside with a light breeze, as the town enters into its last weeks of summer. The streets are quiet. Empty. Shandee has no reason to be afraid.  But that night, Shandee will not make it to her front door. A taxi driver would see a scuffle he does not understand, and call the police. She is brutally attacked. And CCTV features a man, just prior to her attack, crouching in some nearby bushes.   CREDITS Guest: Hedley Thomas, host of Shandee's Story Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures. Just by reading or listening to our content, you’re helping to fund girls in schools in some of the most disadvantaged countries in the world - through our partnership with Room to Read. We’re currently funding 300 girls in school every day and our aim is to get to 1,000. Find out more about Mamamia at mamamia.com.au Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s 1983, and a 15-year-old boy named Richard Kelvin is in a laneway in North Adelaide. He is 50 metres from his beautiful family home.  He has spent that Sunday, June the 5th, playing footy, until the afternoon when his best friend Karl came over. They kicked the footy around. Richard called his girlfriend. And then he walked Karl to the bus stop.  It’s 6:15pm, and the sun is disappearing.  He says to Karl that he doesn’t want to walk back alone. There are surrounding parklands, and he jokes “I might get mugged or something.” Richard is as aware as any other child in Adelaide that the streets aren’t safe at night. Over the last four years, boys have been murdered.  Richard attempts to run home. He wants to call his girlfriend. He must be back in time for dinner. But then a sound echoes through the neighbourhood. Multiple people hear it. The suburb is otherwise quiet, and then there’s a loud cry, as though for help, followed by the screeching of car tires.  Richard is not the first boy to go missing, but he is the most high profile. His father is a famous news presenter, Rob Kelvin.  It will be six weeks and one day before Richard’s boy is found. For most of that time, he was alive. It is a tragedy of unimaginable scale.  He is the fifth murder victim that we know of, ranging in age from 14 to 25.  The people responsible were capable of cruelty beyond what any of us could imagine. And, according to some, they belonged to a much larger network, targeting potentially hundreds of innocent victims.  CREDITS Guest: Debi Marshall Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures. Just by reading or listening to our content, you’re helping to fund girls in schools in some of the most disadvantaged countries in the world - through our partnership with Room to Read. We’re currently funding 300 girls in school every day and our aim is to get to 1,000. Find out more about Mamamia at mamamia.com.au Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

 Rustler Park sits high in the Chiricahua Mountains in southern Arizona. Campsites belonging to the park are scattered along a number of roads, sectioned off from the meadows to avoid damaging plants and fragile soils. Paths from these campgrounds lead into the Chiricahua Wilderness, a national forest full of ponderosa pine and swarming with wildlife. Large animals, like black bears, are often spotted there. In the early afternoon of Father’s Day, 2015, three members of the Castrejon family arrived and set up camp. Lydia and Eduardo Castrejon had driven up the mountain with their 44-year-old daughter, Janet. Eduardo made lunch for his family at around 4pm. But within only a few hours, Janet Castrejon would be missing. She would disappear in what seemed like a flash.  And since that summer evening on the 18th of June, 2015, Janet was never seen alive again.    CREDITS Guest: Ottavia McHenry, host of the Labyrinth podcast. Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri & Leah Porges CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Between the beaches of Bondi and Tamarama in Sydney’s picturesque Eastern suburbs, lies a steep cliff face. Parks and a walking track sit above, attracting tourists from all over the world. But below is rock and the white, foamy Pacific Ocean, the water appearing black at night time. In the 1980s, there was no railing separating the track from the steep cliff. And at night, sometimes screams were heard by locals. Bloodstains were found along the walkway. And in the very worst-case scenarios, men disappeared… or their lifeless bodies were found below - lives cut tragically short.  Some locals nicknamed the area Bondi Badlands - a spot that turned into what’s been referred to as a killer’s playground.  So what was happening to these innocent men? And why did it take such a long time for police to give these crimes the time and energy they always deserved? CREDITS Guest: Greg Callaghan, host of the Bondi Badlands podcast. Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s 1888, and a man who will become perhaps the most infamous serial killer in history is terrorising the streets of London. Fog rises from the damp streets of the Whitechapel district, a largely impoverished area, which has earned itself a reputation for being a cauldron of immorality. Poverty, racism, hundreds of lodging houses which function as brothels, and social unrest mean that the slums in the East End of London have already earned themselves a reputation.  It’s September 10, and five killings have taken place within one and a half kilometres of each other, in just over a month. All the victims are women. The culprit is known as Jack the Ripper, because of the horrifically brutal nature of his violent crimes.  A number of letters were sent from a man claiming to be the killer, taunting police and journalists. One of the letters purported to have been sent from hell.  To this day, the killer’s identity is unknown.  But there’s a theory that he might have been a man named Fredrick Deeming. A man who eventually, ended up in Australia.  CREDITS Guest: Garry Linnell Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s a bleak, cold morning, on July 4, 1975.  A 34-year-old man named Eddie Trigg waits inside the Carousel Cabaret nightclub, known to most as a seedy bar located in the heart of Sydney’s Kings Cross.  But that’s not why Eddie, with a beard and sharp hazel eyes, is there. After all, it’s just past 10:30am. He is there to meet someone.  Juanita Nielsen, the 37-year-old owner and publisher of the newspaper NOW, makes her way towards the establishment. These will be the final moments of her life.  It’s 10:40am when she arrives. She is greeted at reception and escorted upstairs to the VIP Lounge. She is there for what she believes is a work meeting. She is never seen again.  Whispers have circulated around Sydney since. Some say her body is buried under an airport runway. Others are convinced her body is hidden beneath sand dunes.  But 46 years on, Juanita Neilsen is still known as the woman who vanished, and her body has never been found.  We do know, however, that she was a woman with enemies.  CREDITS Guest: Peter Rees Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1983, in Manhattan Beach, California, one woman named Judy Johnson put forward an allegation.  Her two-and-a-half-year-old son was, at the time, attending McMartin preschool. Johnson claimed that her son had been sexually abused by a teacher at the school named Ray Buckley. Her claims were unlike anything police had heard before. Although there was no evidence of abuse taking place, police decided to send a form letter to about 200 parents of students at the pre-school. It asked them to speak to their children and listed off possible abuse they might have experienced.  Over the next seven years, seven teachers, six of them women, were charged with more than 200 counts of child abuse, involving more than than 40 children. There were accusations of Satanic rituals, animal sacrifices, administering of drugs, the creation of child exploitation material, and flying children to far away places where they were molested. The accusations became increasingly bizarre.  By the late 1980s, “McMartin” had become a household word. The trial is among the longest and costliest criminal proceedings in the history of the United States.  What emerged, however, was that none of these events had ever taken place. Today, the children who spoke to authorities say they knew at the time their allegations were false. So what was behind this hysteria? And what was behind the Satanic panic that followed?  CREDITS Guest: Ruth McIver Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s October 24, 1997, and 25-year-old Anu Singh, a promising young law student, invites friends over for a dinner party.  She lives in a Canberra townhouse with her 26-year-old boyfriend Joe Cinque.  The pair met two years prior at a night out in Newcastle. He was said to be immediately taken by Singh, and they quickly became inseparable.  But something wasn’t right about this dinner party.  Friends who attended had heard of Singh’s plans. She’s called the night a ‘farewell’, but some didn’t take her remark seriously. Singh had issued a warning before they arrived. Tonight, in her words, “a crime was going to be committed”.  Her friends arrived to the Canberra townhouse and enjoyed the company of both Singh and Cinque. They drank and ate, and eventually, left to go home.  It’s what happened next - when the couple were alone - that has become something of a modern horror story.  CREDITS Guest: Former Detective Superintendent Greg Ranse Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s Boxing Day, 1964, when a 26-year-old man named Ian Brady, and a 22-year-old woman named Myra Hindley, attend a fair in Ancoats, an area in Manchester, North West England.  The pair had met three years prior when Myra had developed an infatuation with Ian. Finally, Ian showed interest and asked her to the movies. They have been inseparable ever since, although their relationship is anything but conventional.  While at the fair, the couple notice that a ten-year-old named Lesley Ann Downey appears to be alone. In an instant, she becomes their next target.  The young couple approach her, purposefully dropping the shopping they’re carrying. Ian and Myra know that the presence of a woman means a child is more likely to trust them. This is part of their strategy.  And so, they ask Lesley if she wouldn’t mind helping them carry their packages to their car, and then on to their home on Wardle Brook Avenue.  When they arrive, Lesley Ann Downey is raped and then murdered.  She is not Ian and Myra’s first victim. And she will not be their last.  The following morning, as Lesley Ann’s family frantically search for their missing daughter, the pair bury her in a shallow grave at Saddleworth Moor, a wide open expanse of hills and uncultivated land. Her clothes are buried by her feet.  The crimes committed by Myra Hindley and Ian Brady would come to be known as the Moors murder, a series of killings that targeted children, four of whom were sexually assaulted.  Myra Hindley has long been branded the “most evil woman in Britain” - the exception to everything we think we know about female killers. CREDITS Guests: Dr Lizzie Seal & Dr Meghan Sacks Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was 6am on March 1, 2000, when John Price’s neighbour noticed his car was still in the driveway. It struck him as unusual.  John’s supervisor noticed his absence at work too. An off-handed comment he’d made the day before made his co-workers feel uneasy. At 8:10am, Officer Matthews and Officer Furlonger arrived at John’s home.  His front door was locked. The two policemen decided to walk around the side of the house, and break in through the back door. What they saw has been described as one of the worst scenes in Australian criminal history. A judge would later refer to what happened as “beyond contemplation in a civilised society”. The horrific actions of Katherine Knight resulted in her being one of the few women in Australia’s criminal history to be handed a sentence that will see her imprisoned for the term of her natural life. CREDITS Guest: Sandra Lee Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Aileen Wuornos stares down the barrel of the camera, her eyes looking almost black. Her mousy brown hair is pushed back off her face, revealing a pink face. But the most notable thing about the mug shot, taken in front of a bright blue backdrop, is the expression on her face. A snarl. Like she is a moment from breaking out into laughter.   She would go on to say, “I’m one who seriously hates human life and would kill again…. I really got tired of it all… I was angry about the johns… I have hate crawling through my system.” Aileen Wuornos has been called America’s boogeywoman. A monster. And history’s most terrifying female killer.  From a childhood of abandonment and abuse to a tragic end in 2002, this is the story of Aileen Wuornos.  CREDITS Guest: Peter Vronksy Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s a warm morning in August, 2009, when 26-year-old Dalia Dippolito decides to go to the gym. Dalia has long brown hair, tanned skin, and has only recently started working out. She leaves her house just before 6am, and drives the two kilometres from her house in Palm Beach, Florida, to the local gym. In the months prior, she’d started exercising with her husband, 38 year old Michael Dippolito. They’d been married less than a year, and to anyone who knew them, they seemed happy.  But that morning, in the middle of a Florida summer, Dalia got a phone call.  It was a detective. And she was instructed to return home, immediately.  What she saw as she drove down her street was a crime scene. There was police tape and police cars, and a detective tasked with the job of telling Dalia what had happened.  But by that evening, Dalia’s entire world had been turned on its head. Sitting in the police station, it was almost as if she’d been visited by a ghost. CREDITS Guest: Elizabeth Parker Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’re popping into your feed to share with you our new episode of Extraordinary Stories: The Demonisation of Lindy Chamberlain. Episodes two and three of the season, and all past seasons of Extraordinary Stories are available to stream now, exclusively to MPlus subscribers. To subscribe to MPlus and find out more head to www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/extraordinary-stories/ Demonised by the press. Vilified by the country. The subject of gossip and innuendo. From the viewpoint of 2021, the story of Lindy Chamberlain is a brutal reflection of 1980s Australia. Beneath the layers of lies and injustice, it’s a story of a mother who didn’t behave, look, speak or grieve the way we wanted her to after the incomprehensible loss of a child. It’s also the story of one woman, strong enough to endure it all.  In this season of Extraordinary Stories, we’re unraveling how a young woman went from mother to wrongly convicted murderer, and why the story of Azaria Chamberlain’s disappearance continues to fascinate us to this day.To listen to more episodes of The Demonisation Of Lindy Chamberlain head to mamamia.com.au/mplus WITH THANKS TO: Malcolm Brown, Journalist Dr Sophie Jensen, National Museum of AustraliaAlana Valentine, Author & PlaywrightSOURCES: Letters to Lindy, Alana ValentineDear Lindy: A nation responds to the Loss of Azaria, Alana Valentinehttps://lindychamberlain.com/ABCNetwork Ten GET IN TOUCH:Feedback? We’re listening! Call the pod phone on 02 8999 9386 or email us at [email protected] more lols, info and inspo in your ears? Find more Mamamia podcasts here... https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/ CREDITS:Host: Emma GillespieWritten and Produced by Sydney Pead & Emma Gillespie, with Holly WainwrightAudio Production: Madeline JoannouExecutive Producer: Sydney Pead Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

West Cork in Ireland sits on the edge of Europe.  It’s rugged and windy, cold in the winter, and beautiful in the summer.  Since the 1960s, the district has been developed by what the people call ‘blow-ins’. People from around the world who somehow end up in West Cork, hoping to start their lives again.  Often these people are artists or runaways, living in little cottages, desperate for a reset. Sometimes, they’re people running from something. A life they wanted to escape.  Until 1996, nothing much happened in West Cork. It was quiet and peaceful, full of farmers and fishermen.  And then, one night just before Christmas, it became the backdrop to one of Ireland’s most notorious murder cases.  Locals were adamant they knew who did it.  A man who had a “badness in him”. Who never quite fit in. Who rubbed people the wrong way.  But was he responsible?  Or was he just another blow-in? CREDITS Guest: Jennifer Forde, co-host of the West Cork podcast. Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s Father’s Day, 2005, and Robert Farquharson is driving his three sons, Jai, Tyler and Bayley, home to their mother’s house. They’d spent the day together, with their mum, Cindy Gambino, helping the boys put together a Father’s Day gift for Robert. It was a framed photo of his three sons, aged 10, seven, and two.  As a treat, Robert took the boys to Kmart where he bought them toys, and then to KFC for dinner in Geelong.  Afterward, they set off along the Princes Highway, on their way to Winchelsea.  It was on this route, that the unthinkable happened.  The white VN Commodore Robert was driving veered across the highway, crashed through a fence, and began to sink in a farm dam.  Their mother, Cindy, would call it the ‘blackest ever night’.  It is a case that has imprinted itself on the memory of Victorians. But perhaps, author Chris Brook asks, all is not as it seems.   CREDITS Guest: Chris Brook Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On the eastern edge of the city of Ipswich in Queensland, lies a small suburb named Goodna.  About 20 kilometres from the Brisbane central business district, Goodna is peppered with Jacaranda, Hoop Pine, and Mango trees, and boasts numerous parks which are frequented by the public. It was the 26th of September - a spring day - at 1:42pm when two police were stopped in their tracks.  They had been searching the bushland on Redbank Plains Road after a young girl, 12-year-old Leanne Holland, had been reported missing by her family a few days before.  The officers spotted a partly unclothed, shoeless body. One that would come to be identified as the blonde-haired, round-faced, Leanne.  What had happened to her? And who was responsible?  Police already had a suspect. One man.  But, as we’d come to find out, there were a handful of problems.   CREDITS Guest: Graeme Crowley, author of Who Killed Leanne Holland Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s a quarter past seven in the evening on Friday, June 11, 1993.  18-year-old Elizabeth Stevens is freezing. She’s soaking wet from the rain, her short hair clinging to her neck.  She steps off the bus which she caught from Frankston to Cranbourne Road, Langwarrin, and hurries towards her aunt and uncle's house where she lives. She doesn’t know she’s being watched. She had spent her Friday evening at Frankston Library on an English assignment. Her goal is to one day join the army and she knows she has to complete this TAFE course in order to get there. That particular June night, the rain is so heavy it’s difficult to see. As Elizabeth turns into Paterson Avenue a man jumps at her out of the darkness, dressed in a green army jacket and navy baseball cap. The sound of the rain and the roaring wind drowns out her screams.  She feels what she can only assume is a gun to her head as he drags her along someone’s front lawn.  Threatening Elizabeth, the man holds her hand, directing her down Paterson Avenue. Passersby think their interaction looks innocent, not knowing that if Elizabeth doesn’t comply the man has threatened to “blow her head off”.  He leads her to Lloyd Park into a clump of bushes.  These would be the last moments of Elizabeth Stevens’ life.  Less than an hour afterwards the man responsible for her murder would be sitting inside his warm home, enjoying a roast dinner, waiting for his girlfriend to return home from work.   CREDITS Guest: Vikki Petraitis, author of The Frankston Murders: 25 Years On Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camileri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s just after midday on July 17, 2014, when 283 passengers, and 15 crew members board MH17 at Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport.  Among the passengers are 12-year-old Mo, 10-year-old Evie, and eight-year-old Otis Maslin, along with their 68-year-old grandfather, Nick Norris. MH17 is bound for Kuala Lumpur International Airport, due to arrive at 6:10am local time. The family would then go on to Perth, Australia, where they live.  But a few hours into the flight, the plane loses contact with air traffic control. The last known point of contact is about 50 kilometres from the Russia-Ukraine border.  The parents of Mo, Evie and Otis are in Amsterdam, spending two more days in the city, before heading home to join their kids.  That afternoon they think to themselves how lucky they are. How life doesn’t get any better than this.  Late that night, they’ll receive a phone call.  They are thrown into what they will later describe, a living hell.   CREDITS Guest: Meshel Laurie author of CSI Told You Lies Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camileri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was late 2011 when 54-year-old Kellie Martin had her accident. Along with her husband Don Martin, Kellie was retrieving Christmas decorations from their attic in Garland, Texas, when she missed a step on a ladder.  The fall resulted in a herniated disk in her back, an incredibly painful injury that she treated with physical therapy, muscle relaxers and pain relief. Eventually, her doctor recommended surgery.  An elementary school teacher, Kellie scheduled her surgery in the break of March 2012. The neurosurgeon, Dr. Christopher Duntsch, explained the procedure was simple and routine. It would only take 45 minutes, with a quick recovery. When the day came, Kellie and Don had complete trust in Dr. Duntsch. He was articulate and reassuring. The exact kind of doctor you’d want looking after you. But the 45 minutes came and went. Don sat in the waiting room, starting to wonder if something had gone terribly wrong. Eventually, Dr. Duntcsh came out. The surgery had been a success, although Kellie was in a little pain. Then, he went on to explain she might have to go up to the ICU or stay overnight. Alarm bells started sounding for Don. Something wasn’t right.  Hours passed. Still, they were working on her. Don and Kellie’s daughter’s arrived and waited with their father. They were confused. Sick with worry.  That’s when the ICU physician, Dr. Duntsch and the anesthesiologist met with them.  Kellie was dead.  Dr. Duntsch, they would later discover, had sliced an artery, and Kellie had bled to death.  For the Martin family, they were living their absolute worst nightmare.  What they didn’t know, was that of the 38 surgeries Dr. Duntsch had attempted in the last two years, 33 had gone wrong. Patients were left in chronic pain, others unable to walk, or with permanent injuries.  Patients and doctors demanded answers. And eventually, they would get them.    CREDITS Guest: Marshall Lewy from Wondery Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camileri You can stream the new Dr. Death television series on Stan.   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was October 18, 1975, when a farmer found the body of a young woman floating face down in the Gulf of Thailand.  Teresa Knowlton was wearing a floral bikini - a detail that journalists would use to eventually brand her murderer 'The Bikini Killer'. The 21-year-old had traveled to Bangkok, from Seattle in the US, and was following the “Hippie Trail” that would eventually lead her to study Tibetan Buddhism at Kopan Monastery in Kathmandu.  But along the way, she’d met someone.  Although accounts differ, it appears that a man invited Theresa to his home in Pattaya, about 100 kilometres southeast of Bangkok.  There, it’s likely her drink was poisoned. And then, she was invited out for a swim.  She would become the first victim of a man who would come to be known as 'The Serpent'.  And his crimes would only get worse.   CREDITS Guest: Julie Clarke Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camileri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s an hour and a half before sunset on a Sunday afternoon in June, 1838. A group of Indigenous Australians, the Wirrayaraay people, are cooking their evening meal. As the day nears its end, things are quiet. Calm.  They’re at Myall Creek Station, in north western NSW, between the towns of Bingara and Delungra. They’ve been camped there for a few weeks, seeking safety and protection from stockmen who have been roaming the district, killing any Indigenous person they could find.  And then they hear something. A rumbling. The sound of horses hooves. Eleven men can be seen in the distance, galloping towards them at speed.  The women grab their children. Two young boys run and dive into a nearby creek. The rest of the group - about 28 in total - scramble towards the huts, hoping that the white men would protect them. Instead, they were tied up, and led away from the huts.  What happened would come to be known as the Myall Creek massacre - a crime Australians must never, ever forget.   CREDITS Guest: Mark Tedeschi QC Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Leah Porges CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Seven gunshots ring out through Victoria’s green and vast Barrabool Hills.  On the western outskirts of Geelong, the Barrabool Hills is sparsely populated, best known for grazing sheep and lamb.  It’s the early hours of Wednesday, March 18, 1992, and the sun has not yet risen. Everyone should be asleep.  But those seven gunshots will have killed three people.  For the youngest casualty, 23-year-old Guy, a gunshot shatters his watch. The time reads 4:25am.  A family line will end that day. Three generations wiped out in just minutes. But the story of Darcy Wettenhall, and the secret life he was living, is about to be revealed.   CREDITS Guest: Neal Drinnan Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hanging from a mango tree, on the edge of their village in Uttar Pradesh, are the bodies of two girls. It’s May 27, 2014, and the sun is just beginning to rise in India’s north. It’s already blisteringly hot, the air thick and overbearing. A man, a member of the village, is the first to see them. The two girls who went missing last night.  Lalli is 14, her lifeless body beside her 16-year-old cousin Padma. They were inseparable in life, neighbours who were more like sisters. Their parents have been desperately trying to find them. They will eventually be called to this orchard, and they will see what became of their daughters.  But when they find them, they do not take their bodies down. Their mistrust of police is so great that they wait for a man they trust to arrive. They think that the police will ensure these girls are forgotten. Their deaths ignored by the justice system. Instead, the women of the family guard their bodies as they are exposed to the heat, factors that would make it increasingly difficult to determine what happened.  On that day, in May 2014, photographs are taken of a scene that is shared all around the world.  These girls’ lives mattered.  And with a spotlight on this small village in India, it’s critical they determine what happened. CREDITS Guest: Sonia Faleiro  Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On today’s episode host Jessie Stephens is speaking with award-winning investigative journalists Ruby Jones and Neil Mercer, co-authors of the book Barrenjoey Road. For 43 years, the case of Trudie Jeanette Adams has intrigued people on Sydney's Northern Beaches. Trudie decided to hitch-hike home, but she was never seen again. Ruby Jones first investigated the case for ABC’s Unravel podcast. The second season, titled Barrenjoey Road, investigated the disappearance of Trudie Adams. The ABC then produced the three-part documentary series with Jones and Mercer, under the same name.  CREDITS Guest: Ruby Jones & Neil Mercer  Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On today’s episode Jessie is speaking with award-winning investigative journalist Connie Walker, whose podcast ‘Stolen’ & ‘Missing & Murdered’ uncovers an overlooked epidemic of violence against Indigenous women and girls in North America.  Her ‘Finding Cleo’ series tells the story of the young Cree girl who was taken from her family by child welfare workers in Saskatchewan in the 1970s, and unearths what truly happened to her... CREDITS Guest: Carrie Walker  Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s a Wednesday morning in March 1996, and the bell sounds at Dunblane Primary School near Stirling in Scotland.  Students scramble to their classrooms, their minds are caught up in homework and friendships, and the game they were just playing in the yard.  A class of twenty-eight Primary 1 pupils, aged between four and six, congregate in the gymnasium, preparing for their morning PE lesson.  In a nearby classroom sits an eight-year-old boy whose name is Andy. He has blue eyes and sandy coloured hair and loves nothing more than tennis. On the weekends, he plays adults. Sometimes he even beats them. Today, he is known as Andy Murray, one of the greatest tennis players to have ever lived.  It’s just after 9:30am when eight-year-old Andy hears something. Two gunshots just outside his classroom.  They sound like they’re coming from the gymnasium. The man holding the gun has on him 743 cartridges of ammunition. He’s already cut cables at the bottom of a telegraph pole at the school’s entrance and he’s about to execute the deadliest mass shooting in British history. 25 years later the question remains: why? Who was this man, armed with more weapons than anyone could ever need, marching into a local primary school? And is there a world in which this massacre could have been prevented?   CREDITS Guest: Christopher Berry-Dee Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri RESOURCES WE USED: Andy Murray: The Man Behind the Racquet Judy Murray | THE DUNBLANE MASSACRE | Driving Force CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s June 15, 1998, a cool winter’s evening on Sydney’s northern beaches.   The leafy, quiet and friendly suburb of Belrose is located about 19 kilometres northeast of Sydney’s CBD. For a man named Brett Boyd, it's no accident he lived there.  The 27-year-old had moved away from the bustling nightlife of Kings Cross. His friends were involved heavily in the club scene - some dealing drugs like cocaine. Elements of the work had begun to scare him, and so he retreated to a suburb where he felt safe.  Arriving home on that Monday in June at about 6:30pm, Brett noticed a package waiting at the door. It was addressed to his girlfriend, 23-year-old bikini model Simone Cheung. They’d met through a mutual friend and had been dating for a few years.  Simone wasn’t home at the time, and so Brett instinctively picked the package up.  A neighbour would later report hearing a loud explosion. The kind of sound that stood out. They then saw Boyd walk from his doorstep on Opala St, before collapsing. An explosion had broken windows and blasted holes through the carport. Debris even landed on the roof of the shed next door.  What Brett had picked up was a bomb designed to kill.  But who had left it there? And why was it addressed to his girlfriend?  When Brett woke up in hospital, he was convinced he knew.  CREDITS Guest: Poppy Damon and Alice Fiennes Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri RESOURCES WE USED: Former fugitive breaks silence 17 years after accused of notorious hate crime | 60 Minutes Australia CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s 4pm on the 9th of February, 1988.  A 22-year-old woman named Helen McCourt, with long, dark brown hair picks up the phone. She's about to leave work at the Royal Insurance office in Liverpool, having negotiated with her boss to leave an hour early.  Helen is ringing her mother, Marie. She tells her that tonight she’ll be going out with her new boyfriend, but asks that her mother have tea ready when she arrives home so she’ll have enough time to wash her hair.  Marie agrees. Sitting with her daughter Helen and discussing her work or her relationships or her friendships are among one of her favourite things to do. Once Helen puts down the receiver, she walks out into the wintery afternoon. It's raining, with fierce gusts of winds, as is often the case in northern England. In just a few hours, the temperature will be near freezing.  Helen estimates it will take her about an hour and fifteen minutes to arrive home, which she shares with her mother and younger brother in Standish Avenue.  But 5:30pm comes and goes. Helen’s tea goes cold. Her mother looks out the window at the foul weather making the streets unbearable.  Where is Helen? And how close has she come that evening to opening the front door?   CREDITS Guest: Marie McCourt Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For Desmond Butler, it began with a headache. Then diarrhoea. Nausea that felt like a hangover.   He was otherwise a healthy man, not yet 30. He shared two children with his wife Yvonne Gladys Butler, a striking woman, small and doll-like. Desmond also attracted the attention of neighbours, with dark, thick floppy hair, an athletic physique and perhaps a wandering eye.  It was October 1947, and the young couple lived in a small house in the then working-class suburb of Newtown in Sydney.  But back to Desmond’s headaches.  Over the course of a week, his symptoms worsened.  Extreme fatigue. Aches and pains throughout his whole body, and a strange stiffness in his legs. Pins and needles travelled to his feet.  Before long, Desmond saw a doctor. They could find nothing, physically, wrong with him. The doctor’s order was Bonox… a drink otherwise known as beef tea. It was gentle on the stomach and high in iron, concentrating also the nutrients from beef in a drink. Every night, Yvonne continued to serve him Bonox. But his condition did not improve. It got worse. While out with friends one night, Desmond fell to the floor. His legs were no longer working. He shouted at the top of his lungs: “I feel like I’m on fire!” Rushed home and put to bed, his friends didn’t know what to make of Desmond’s mystery illness. Was it possible he was putting it on?  As time wore on, neighbours began to notice a smell around the Butler house. It smelt like urine and faeces. Desmond no longer had control of his bowel, and Yvonne could only wash him with a sponge in bed given she was unable to lift him. His screams were heard throughout the neighbourhood - like an animal in excruciating pain.  Finally, he was rushed to hospital again. A friend explained to the doctor: “He’s in so much pain he’s been threatening to eat poisoned wheat. His wife told us so”. He likely didn’t know what the repercussions would be for such a statement.  Desmond was not admitted to hospital. He was taken into custody. In 1947, suicide was a crime. And Desmond had just threatened it.  And so people believed Desmond Butler had lost his mind - imagining symptoms for which there was no physical explanation.  But they were real.  And they did have a physical explanation.  But by the time police made a startling discovery, it would all be too late.   CREDITS Guest: Tanya Bretherton, author of The Husband Poisoner Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was February 12, 2014, a hot summer evening, and eleven year old Luke Batty was at cricket practice on a sports oval in the Melbourne suburb of Tyabb. With blue eyes and dark blonde hair, Luke had just started Year Six. He was happy and empathetic, a best friend to his single mother Rosie.  Rosie was on one end of the cricket ground, and his father, Greg Anderson was at the other.  After speaking to his father, Luke ran back over to Rosie and said: “Oh mum, I haven’t seen dad for a while. He’s asked me if I can have a few extra minutes.” Rosie remembers thinking, “Aw that’s nice.” She had invited someone over for dinner, and Greg had coaxed Luke over to the cricket nets. Suddenly, the park stood still in response to a sound of anguish, unlike anything they’d ever heard.  Her former partner, in what felt like the blink of an eye, struck his son with a cricket bat before stabbing him to death.  In the hours following, Anderson resisted arrest and threatened paramedics with his knife. Police had no choice but to shoot. He died in hospital from both gunshots and self-inflicted stab wounds.  What happened to Luke is a story that haunts Australia more than seven years later. In response, his mother Rosie Batty has dedicated her life to campaigning for domestic violence reform and has fundamentally changed the conversation about family violence.    CREDITS Guest: Rosie Batty Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In July 2011 a man named Dennis Costas called in sick to work. He told his employer he was suffering from sciatica. For the rest of the afternoon, he drank heavily, characteristic of a man with a serious drinking problem.   Speaking to Dr. Richard Taylor, he said he couldn’t remember much from that day.  “My recollection is very distorted…” he said. He took a nap at some point and “After that,” he explained, “I really don’t know what happened. All I can remember is putting out the fire. My vision was blurred. I heard a voice and I came out of the flat door. I went back in again and then out to the lobby. There was a fire in the living room, and I put water on it.” There was a lot he said he couldn’t remember from that afternoon, and into the early hours of the next morning.  At 3.50am, police were called to a four storey low-rise apartment block in Upton Park, East London, by a resident who said they were awoken to banging on their door.  When police arrived, residents were scattered across the carpark. Police ran to the top storey, where they saw a person walking towards them, like something out of a horror movie.  One police officer said he had never seen anything like it before. The person had burns to their face and body, and the officer said: “For a split second, a feeling of unreality overcame me.”  Eventually, the person gave her name as Sophia. She had arrived home at 3am and her former boyfriend had been waiting inside.  He doused her in petrol. And lit a match. That man, she said, was Dennis Costas. A man who claimed he had no recollection of what had taken place. So, had Dennis been involved?  And, why didn’t he remember it?    CREDITS Guest: Dr. Richard Taylor, author of Mind Of A Murderer Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Leah Porges You can listen to The Quicky's episode about the George Floyd Trial here.   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s August 23, 2016, in a sleepy Queensland town named Home Hill, south of Townsville.  Shelley’s Backpackers is a modest hostel in the small regional town, where backpackers on working holiday visas stay while completing their mandatory farm work. The days are long. And hot. They see snakes and operate heavy machinery without any training. Aren’t those brown snakes meant to be deadly, they think to themselves. At night, they sleep in dormitories, some sharing rooms with strangers.  On the evening of August 23, a few of the British backpackers go to the pub. They have a few beers and something to eat, before heading back for an early night. Among them, is a 21-year-old woman named Mia Ayliffe-Chung. Another is Chris Porter.  When they return to the hostel, everyone climbs into their separate beds and drifts off to sleep.  Mia, at this point, had only been working there a week. Already, though, she was anxious. Something was troubling her.  A few hours later, Chris awoke to screams, unlike anything he’d ever heard.  Something was terribly wrong.  And shockwaves were sent from this tiny Queensland town, all the way back to England.    CREDITS Guest: Rosie Ayliffe, author of Far From Home Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Los Angeles is known as the city of dreams. The most populous city in California, Los Angeles is surrounded by mountain ranges, forests, beautiful beaches belonging to the Pacific Ocean and desert.  It is the home of countless celebrities - and even more who hope to become celebrities. It is the land of hope. But Los Angeles is also one of the largest sites of human sex trafficking in the United States.  If you were to drive down Figueroa Street at night, you’d see women on the sidewalks in bikinis, high heels and short dresses, even in the depths of winter. You’d also see cars parked nearby. Inside are their pimps, keeping a close eye on the women who work for them.  If you asked any of those pimps, they’d tell you that those women choose to work for them.  But for some of these women, is it really a choice?    CREDITS Guest: Mariana Van Zeller the host of Trafficked Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A man calls a phone number in Manhattan.  His name is Johnny. And he has a confession.  The phone line connects him to Mr Apology. A man whose real name is Allan Bridge, an artist performing a long-form social experiment.  There are posters up all around New York City, inviting “amateurs, professionals, criminals…” who have “wronged people.” It continues: “It is to people that you must apologise, not to the state, not to God, get your misdeeds off your chest.” The instructions read, “describe in detail what you have done and how you feel about it.” The messages were to be recorded, and at some point, played for the public.  Johnny’s voice bellowed down the receiver.  He spread AIDS to both genders, he confessed.  It was the 1980s - and the AIDS crisis was rapidly accelerating. It seemed Johnny had no desire to change. Johnny’s voice was among thousands and thousands who would call the hotline over fifteen years.  Some were ordinary civilians. Some were criminals. Their confessions were shocking. And the project itself would take its toll on Mr Apology.    CREDITS Guest: Marissa Bridge, host of 'The Apology Line' podcast Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s a cold winter’s night at Sydney’s Luna Park, nestled in the northern shore of Sydney Harbour. It’s June 9, 1979, and swarms of people ride the roller coaster and play inside Coney Island. The Tagline for the amusement park is “just for fun” - and it’s arguably one of the biggest attractions in Sydney.  But one of the most popular rides is The Ghost Train, which runs along 180 metres of electric track, most of it in total darkness. Dancing skeletons and dragons heads and an imitation fire make the ride spine-tingling, with a haunted voice cackling: “you’ll shiver and quake on the ghost train.” It’s almost closing time and a 12-year-old boy named Jason Holman is with four friends, about to board The Ghost Train.  For 45 years The Ghost Train has been running, without the slightest incident. Once you’re in, it only goes for two and a half minutes, but that’s enough time to deliver a thrill.  There’s nothing out of the ordinary. Two of his friends board the ride on one carriage, and then the next two in the following carriage.  Jason is last.  Just moments later, Jason’s four friends, students at Waverley College in Sydney, would be dead. He will survive, being dubbed the luckiest boy alive. But he doesn’t feel lucky. 42 years later, he still has questions.    CREDITS Guest: Caro Meldrum-Hanna, co-creator of Exposed: The Ghost Train Fire Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

True Crime Conversations explores the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. This month we’re focusing on Australia’s most notorious crimes... It’s lunchtime, on a cool Sunday in April, and the Port Arthur historic site is buzzing with visitors.  Located at the southern tip of the Tasman Peninsula, Port Arthur is located about 100 kilometres south-east of Hobart, the capital of Tasmania. The quaint village was once a penal settlement and a main drawcard for tourists visiting Australia’s southernmost state.  At around 1:10pm, a man named Martin Bryant pays his entry fee for the Port Arthur site and parks near the Broad Arrow Cafe. He sits in his car for a few minutes. He is seen walking towards the cafe, with a sports bag and a video camera. He orders lunch, which he eats on the outside deck. To onlookers, he looks slightly nervous, but otherwise like a normal man - likely a tourist visiting Port Arthur.  That morning, Bryant had awoken at 6am, which was unusually early for him. He left his home at 9:47am and drove to Forcett, arriving around 11am. Then, he continued on to Port Arthur, where he stopped at an accommodation site in Seascape. He hated the owners, David and Noelene Martin, who had bought the property before Bryant’s father had been able to. His father, Maurice Bryant, had been devastated and years later had ended his own life. Bryant blamed the Martin’s for his father’s death.  When he arrived at Seaside, he fired several shots, killing Noelene Martin, and then stabbed David Martin.  He then continued to Port Arthur, with a lightweight, semi-automatic rifle.  What followed, was the worst massacre in Australian history committed by a single person. 35 were killed, and 23 wounded.   CREDITS Guest: Anita Bingham Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan Get more Mamamamia true crime listening with this The Spill's latest WATCH CLUB here.   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

True Crime Conversations explores the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. This month we’re focusing on Australia’s most notorious crimes... It’s the 20th of May, 1999, an autumn day in South Australia.  For 12 months, there has been an inquiry into the disappearance of a woman named Elizabeth Haydon, a 37-year-old mother of eight. But it isn’t just her. Two other people from a similar area have been reported missing. And there has been no trace of them. But today police will storm a disused bank vault in Snowtown, a disadvantaged bush town about 150 kilometres north of Adelaide.  When they enter, they see six large plastic barrels. Inside are the remains of eight bodies that have been stored in acid. One is believed to be Elizabeth Haydon. The smell from inside the vault is said to be so bad the police need breathing gear. Some will be traumatised from what they see that day.  Following the discovery, police visit the former home of John Bunting. In his backyard, they find two more bodies buried.  That brings the tally to 10 bodies - making the crimes that have taken place the worst serial killings in Australian history.  They will come to be known as the “bodies in barrels murders” or the “Snowtown” murders, making the sadistic crimes perpetrated by a number of men forever synonymous with a small South Australian town.  But the subsequent investigation would determine that while the bodies were found in Snowtown, that’s not where most of the murders had taken place. They’d been executed in suburban homes. And for years, no one had noticed.   CREDITS Guest: Debi Marshall the author of 'Killing For Pleasure' and 'Banquet: The Untold Story of Adelaide's Family Murders' Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

True Crime Conversations explores the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. This month we’re focusing in on Australia’s most notorious crimes... It’s a Saturday night in the middle of July, 2001, when Peter Falconio and Joanne Lees travel down the Stuart Highway in their orange Kombi van.  Peter is 28, and in the driver’s seat. His girlfriend, 27-year-old Joanne, is in the passenger seat. They’ve been in Australia for a little over five months, first arriving in Sydney on a working holiday Visa. They’d come from Brighton in England, prepared for the trip of a lifetime.  On June the 25th, the young tourists departed Sydney to embark on a road trip across Australia, starting in Canberra, then on to Melbourne, Adelaide, Darwin and Brisbane.  The couple had been in Alice Springs, and are bound that night for the Devils Marbles, south of Tennant Creek. The road is long, and the drive notoriously remote. You rarely see another car, and the road extends as far as the eye can see, kilometres ahead. It’s eerie. If you stand on the side of the road, it’s so quiet and still you’re able to hear your own heartbeat.  They had stopped at the roadhouse in Barrow Creek, but once they set off again, they start to notice something unusual. A car. They keep expecting the car to overtake them, but it doesn’t. Along the expanse of road, a Toyota 4WD with a large green canopy in the back, approaches them. The driver gestures for them to pull over. Something must be wrong.  There is a twinge of fear. They’re alone. More than 15,000 kilometres from home. News had emerged recently in Australia and internationally of backpacker murders, with tourists like them disappearing in the Australian outback.  They pull the car over. A man approaches them.  And a few hours later, Northern Territory police get a panicked phone call.    CREDITS Guest: Colleen Gwynne Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

True Crime Conversations explores the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. This month we’re focusing in on Australia’s most notorious crimes... It’s the morning of February 6, 1986.  Australia as a nation, but more specifically New South Wales, is in a state of shock. Two days prior, the body of 26 year old nurse Anita Cobby had been found in a paddock in Prospect, 32 kilometres west of Sydney’s CBD. The news had broken that Anita had been murdered. But on the 6th of February, a morning radio host named John Laws obtained a leaked copy of the young woman’s autopsy report. All morning, he said, he considered whether or not to broadcast the details. He ultimately decided to. Laws shared explicit details about Anita Cobby’s injuries and the nature of her death, as Sydney siders drove to work or as they dropped their children at school. For a generation, those details would be imprinted on their psyche - a woman murdered in a manner beyond what any of us could ever imagine.  The events of February 2, the night Anita was murdered by strangers, has come to be understood as the most savage murder this state has ever known. When her killers were sentenced Justice Alan Maxwell described their crime as, "One of the most horrifying physical and sexual assaults. This was a calculated killing done in cold blood.” It remains a crime Australia won’t ever forget.   CREDITS Guest: Julia Sheppard the author of Someone Else's Daughter Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan The Quicky: The Secret Life Of Melissa Caddick   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

True Crime Conversations explores the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. This March we’re focusing on Australia’s most notorious crimes...from Anita Cobby to Snowtown. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s May 30, 1985, in Burbank, California. Spring is turning to summer, and the wide streets in the San Fernando Valley are lined with their signature palm trees. A 42 year old woman named Carol Kyle is at home with her 11 year old son. She doesn’t know yet that there is a man in her neighbourhood, driving a stolen car.  At some stage during the night, in the shadow of darkness, this man enters her home. At gunpoint, he binds Carol’s son with handcuffs and ransacks their house, demanding she tell him where her most valuable items are hidden.  Once he has collected a number of valuable goods, he rapes Carol, ordering her not to look at him while shouting threats at her. She complies.  When he is finished with Carol, he retrieves the little boy and binds him to her mother with handcuffs.  Then, he flees the scene.  Both Carol and her son survive this attack.  They are lucky.  So far that year, the Night Stalker as he will come to be known, has killed six innocent civilians. The year before, he killed two others. The youngest being a nine year old girl.  He is in the midst of one of the most destructive murder crime sprees in American history. But he isn’t like your text book serial killer. He is a serial rapist, kidnapper, pedophile and burglar, murdering some victims while letting others go.  For those who survive, they will never forget his face. It is the face of a monster.    CREDITS Guest: Detective Gil Carillo Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s February 5, 1907, and a short, dark haired man in his late thirties named Corporal O’Halloran is on the doorstep of a house on Edward Street in the city of Perth. He has been called there by the owner, a woman named Alice Mitchell.  Alice Mitchell is known to care for babies. Specifically, babies belonging to single parents, who have no choice but to return to work and earn a living. She has cared for dozens over the last six or so years. But she’s called Corporal O’Halloran there because she’s caring for a baby whose mother has disappeared. She is no longer sending her money.  “I’ve been keeping her baby for months,” she tells the man. “And I’ve received nothing from her. I keep them for a living,” she continues, referring to the babies. “I don’t keep them for the love of the thing. Her child wants nourishment and I’m unable to give it to her unless she pays me.” Corporal O’Halloran asks to see the child.  He watches Alice walk down her lino-covered hallway and collect a baby from one of the bedrooms. The infant is wrapped in a thin blanket, wearing a soiled cloth nappy. He notices the baby is pale, with her eyes inflamed. She is seriously underweight, emaciated, and limp, and the policeman notices a sickly smell coming from her. He grows concerned.  Alice says the baby is suffering from teething. And marasmus, a form of malnutrition.  O’Halloran is aware of the rumours. They’ve been following Alice for some time. But there’s never been a formal complaint, perhaps because of the shame so many single mothers feel.  What happened that day will start an investigation, as authorities look more closely at the home of Alice.  Where are so many of the babies she was meant to be caring for?    CREDITS Guest: Stella Budrikis - Author of 'The Edward St Baby Farm' Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Leah Porges Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s August 16, 2002, when a man named Shane Chartres-Abbott meets a client at South Yarra’s Hotel Saville. The 27-year-old is a male prostitute, who specialises in sadomasochistic sex. With him, he carries a black bag full of sex toys, including a whip, ropes, condoms and handcuffs. The woman he is meeting, 30-year-old Penny, is not a stranger. She too works in the sex industry. They’ve met for his services before, but have started to get to know each other, with Penny being one of Shane’s only clients to know his real name. She knows what she wants from him, and so the pair check in to room 307, closing the door behind them. By 11:20am the following morning, hotel management discovers no one has checked out of room 307. One man goes upstairs to check if anyone was still there. What took place in that room in the late hours of August 16, and the early hours of August 17, would set off a series of events that would culminate in murder, and the most expensive police investigation in Victoria’s history.  Did Shane turn into someone else inside room 307? And how can we explain what happened next?   CREDITS Guest: Adam Shand Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s the first day of Autumn, 1989, in an affluent Sydney suburb. Mosman is on the lower north shore and known for being comfortable and safe, a short distance from Taronga Zoo and Balmoral Beach. An 82 year old woman named Gwendoline Mitchell Hill is walking down military Rd towards her apartment in the late afternoon. She doesn’t know a man has spotted her, concocting a plan of what to do next. She won’t make it inside. And she will be the first known victim of a vicious predator who will ravage the streets of Mosman, Lane Cove and Belrose for the next 12 months.   CREDITS Guest: Former Detective Inspector Mike Hagan Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Leah Porges Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The small town of Mylor, buried in the Adelaide Hills, has a population of just over one thousand people. Properties sit on sprawling bushland, between the mountainous terrain, and today people visit to camp or see the native animals.  It was October 1966 when eight year old Wendy Jane Pfeiffer, petite with short hair and rosy cheeks, decided to walk the family dog on a quiet Sunday afternoon. She took Bonnie, a brown and white farm dog, down a dirt track, which has barely changed in 55 years.  Wendy wouldn’t come back that afternoon. Or the next. A search began in the friendly, rural village, where bad things never happened. Pictures were circulated. Still, there was no sign of Wendy.  Where had she gone? Who had taken her?  And by some miracle, was it possible she was still alive?  CREDITS Guest: Kylie Boltin Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri  Producer: Gia Moylan CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.