True Crime Conversations

On today’s episode Jessie is speaking with award-winning investigative journalist Connie Walker, whose podcast ‘Stolen’ & ‘Missing & Murdered’ uncovers an overlooked epidemic of violence against Indigenous women and girls in North America.  Her ‘Finding Cleo’ series tells the story of the young Cree girl who was taken from her family by child welfare workers in Saskatchewan in the 1970s, and unearths what truly happened to her... CREDITS Guest: Carrie Walker  Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s a Wednesday morning in March 1996, and the bell sounds at Dunblane Primary School near Stirling in Scotland.  Students scramble to their classrooms, their minds are caught up in homework and friendships, and the game they were just playing in the yard.  A class of twenty-eight Primary 1 pupils, aged between four and six, congregate in the gymnasium, preparing for their morning PE lesson.  In a nearby classroom sits an eight-year-old boy whose name is Andy. He has blue eyes and sandy coloured hair and loves nothing more than tennis. On the weekends, he plays adults. Sometimes he even beats them. Today, he is known as Andy Murray, one of the greatest tennis players to have ever lived.  It’s just after 9:30am when eight-year-old Andy hears something. Two gunshots just outside his classroom.  They sound like they’re coming from the gymnasium. The man holding the gun has on him 743 cartridges of ammunition. He’s already cut cables at the bottom of a telegraph pole at the school’s entrance and he’s about to execute the deadliest mass shooting in British history. 25 years later the question remains: why? Who was this man, armed with more weapons than anyone could ever need, marching into a local primary school? And is there a world in which this massacre could have been prevented?   CREDITS Guest: Christopher Berry-Dee Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri RESOURCES WE USED: Andy Murray: The Man Behind the Racquet Judy Murray | THE DUNBLANE MASSACRE | Driving Force CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s June 15, 1998, a cool winter’s evening on Sydney’s northern beaches.   The leafy, quiet and friendly suburb of Belrose is located about 19 kilometres northeast of Sydney’s CBD. For a man named Brett Boyd, it's no accident he lived there.  The 27-year-old had moved away from the bustling nightlife of Kings Cross. His friends were involved heavily in the club scene - some dealing drugs like cocaine. Elements of the work had begun to scare him, and so he retreated to a suburb where he felt safe.  Arriving home on that Monday in June at about 6:30pm, Brett noticed a package waiting at the door. It was addressed to his girlfriend, 23-year-old bikini model Simone Cheung. They’d met through a mutual friend and had been dating for a few years.  Simone wasn’t home at the time, and so Brett instinctively picked the package up.  A neighbour would later report hearing a loud explosion. The kind of sound that stood out. They then saw Boyd walk from his doorstep on Opala St, before collapsing. An explosion had broken windows and blasted holes through the carport. Debris even landed on the roof of the shed next door.  What Brett had picked up was a bomb designed to kill.  But who had left it there? And why was it addressed to his girlfriend?  When Brett woke up in hospital, he was convinced he knew.  CREDITS Guest: Poppy Damon and Alice Fiennes Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri RESOURCES WE USED: Former fugitive breaks silence 17 years after accused of notorious hate crime | 60 Minutes Australia CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s 4pm on the 9th of February, 1988.  A 22-year-old woman named Helen McCourt, with long, dark brown hair picks up the phone. She's about to leave work at the Royal Insurance office in Liverpool, having negotiated with her boss to leave an hour early.  Helen is ringing her mother, Marie. She tells her that tonight she’ll be going out with her new boyfriend, but asks that her mother have tea ready when she arrives home so she’ll have enough time to wash her hair.  Marie agrees. Sitting with her daughter Helen and discussing her work or her relationships or her friendships are among one of her favourite things to do. Once Helen puts down the receiver, she walks out into the wintery afternoon. It's raining, with fierce gusts of winds, as is often the case in northern England. In just a few hours, the temperature will be near freezing.  Helen estimates it will take her about an hour and fifteen minutes to arrive home, which she shares with her mother and younger brother in Standish Avenue.  But 5:30pm comes and goes. Helen’s tea goes cold. Her mother looks out the window at the foul weather making the streets unbearable.  Where is Helen? And how close has she come that evening to opening the front door?   CREDITS Guest: Marie McCourt Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For Desmond Butler, it began with a headache. Then diarrhoea. Nausea that felt like a hangover.   He was otherwise a healthy man, not yet 30. He shared two children with his wife Yvonne Gladys Butler, a striking woman, small and doll-like. Desmond also attracted the attention of neighbours, with dark, thick floppy hair, an athletic physique and perhaps a wandering eye.  It was October 1947, and the young couple lived in a small house in the then working-class suburb of Newtown in Sydney.  But back to Desmond’s headaches.  Over the course of a week, his symptoms worsened.  Extreme fatigue. Aches and pains throughout his whole body, and a strange stiffness in his legs. Pins and needles travelled to his feet.  Before long, Desmond saw a doctor. They could find nothing, physically, wrong with him. The doctor’s order was Bonox… a drink otherwise known as beef tea. It was gentle on the stomach and high in iron, concentrating also the nutrients from beef in a drink. Every night, Yvonne continued to serve him Bonox. But his condition did not improve. It got worse. While out with friends one night, Desmond fell to the floor. His legs were no longer working. He shouted at the top of his lungs: “I feel like I’m on fire!” Rushed home and put to bed, his friends didn’t know what to make of Desmond’s mystery illness. Was it possible he was putting it on?  As time wore on, neighbours began to notice a smell around the Butler house. It smelt like urine and faeces. Desmond no longer had control of his bowel, and Yvonne could only wash him with a sponge in bed given she was unable to lift him. His screams were heard throughout the neighbourhood - like an animal in excruciating pain.  Finally, he was rushed to hospital again. A friend explained to the doctor: “He’s in so much pain he’s been threatening to eat poisoned wheat. His wife told us so”. He likely didn’t know what the repercussions would be for such a statement.  Desmond was not admitted to hospital. He was taken into custody. In 1947, suicide was a crime. And Desmond had just threatened it.  And so people believed Desmond Butler had lost his mind - imagining symptoms for which there was no physical explanation.  But they were real.  And they did have a physical explanation.  But by the time police made a startling discovery, it would all be too late.   CREDITS Guest: Tanya Bretherton, author of The Husband Poisoner Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was February 12, 2014, a hot summer evening, and eleven year old Luke Batty was at cricket practice on a sports oval in the Melbourne suburb of Tyabb. With blue eyes and dark blonde hair, Luke had just started Year Six. He was happy and empathetic, a best friend to his single mother Rosie.  Rosie was on one end of the cricket ground, and his father, Greg Anderson was at the other.  After speaking to his father, Luke ran back over to Rosie and said: “Oh mum, I haven’t seen dad for a while. He’s asked me if I can have a few extra minutes.” Rosie remembers thinking, “Aw that’s nice.” She had invited someone over for dinner, and Greg had coaxed Luke over to the cricket nets. Suddenly, the park stood still in response to a sound of anguish, unlike anything they’d ever heard.  Her former partner, in what felt like the blink of an eye, struck his son with a cricket bat before stabbing him to death.  In the hours following, Anderson resisted arrest and threatened paramedics with his knife. Police had no choice but to shoot. He died in hospital from both gunshots and self-inflicted stab wounds.  What happened to Luke is a story that haunts Australia more than seven years later. In response, his mother Rosie Batty has dedicated her life to campaigning for domestic violence reform and has fundamentally changed the conversation about family violence.    CREDITS Guest: Rosie Batty Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In July 2011 a man named Dennis Costas called in sick to work. He told his employer he was suffering from sciatica. For the rest of the afternoon, he drank heavily, characteristic of a man with a serious drinking problem.   Speaking to Dr. Richard Taylor, he said he couldn’t remember much from that day.  “My recollection is very distorted…” he said. He took a nap at some point and “After that,” he explained, “I really don’t know what happened. All I can remember is putting out the fire. My vision was blurred. I heard a voice and I came out of the flat door. I went back in again and then out to the lobby. There was a fire in the living room, and I put water on it.” There was a lot he said he couldn’t remember from that afternoon, and into the early hours of the next morning.  At 3.50am, police were called to a four storey low-rise apartment block in Upton Park, East London, by a resident who said they were awoken to banging on their door.  When police arrived, residents were scattered across the carpark. Police ran to the top storey, where they saw a person walking towards them, like something out of a horror movie.  One police officer said he had never seen anything like it before. The person had burns to their face and body, and the officer said: “For a split second, a feeling of unreality overcame me.”  Eventually, the person gave her name as Sophia. She had arrived home at 3am and her former boyfriend had been waiting inside.  He doused her in petrol. And lit a match. That man, she said, was Dennis Costas. A man who claimed he had no recollection of what had taken place. So, had Dennis been involved?  And, why didn’t he remember it?    CREDITS Guest: Dr. Richard Taylor, author of Mind Of A Murderer Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Leah Porges You can listen to The Quicky's episode about the George Floyd Trial here.   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s August 23, 2016, in a sleepy Queensland town named Home Hill, south of Townsville.  Shelley’s Backpackers is a modest hostel in the small regional town, where backpackers on working holiday visas stay while completing their mandatory farm work. The days are long. And hot. They see snakes and operate heavy machinery without any training. Aren’t those brown snakes meant to be deadly, they think to themselves. At night, they sleep in dormitories, some sharing rooms with strangers.  On the evening of August 23, a few of the British backpackers go to the pub. They have a few beers and something to eat, before heading back for an early night. Among them, is a 21-year-old woman named Mia Ayliffe-Chung. Another is Chris Porter.  When they return to the hostel, everyone climbs into their separate beds and drifts off to sleep.  Mia, at this point, had only been working there a week. Already, though, she was anxious. Something was troubling her.  A few hours later, Chris awoke to screams, unlike anything he’d ever heard.  Something was terribly wrong.  And shockwaves were sent from this tiny Queensland town, all the way back to England.    CREDITS Guest: Rosie Ayliffe, author of Far From Home Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Los Angeles is known as the city of dreams. The most populous city in California, Los Angeles is surrounded by mountain ranges, forests, beautiful beaches belonging to the Pacific Ocean and desert.  It is the home of countless celebrities - and even more who hope to become celebrities. It is the land of hope. But Los Angeles is also one of the largest sites of human sex trafficking in the United States.  If you were to drive down Figueroa Street at night, you’d see women on the sidewalks in bikinis, high heels and short dresses, even in the depths of winter. You’d also see cars parked nearby. Inside are their pimps, keeping a close eye on the women who work for them.  If you asked any of those pimps, they’d tell you that those women choose to work for them.  But for some of these women, is it really a choice?    CREDITS Guest: Mariana Van Zeller the host of Trafficked Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Gia Moylan Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A man calls a phone number in Manhattan.  His name is Johnny. And he has a confession.  The phone line connects him to Mr Apology. A man whose real name is Allan Bridge, an artist performing a long-form social experiment.  There are posters up all around New York City, inviting “amateurs, professionals, criminals…” who have “wronged people.” It continues: “It is to people that you must apologise, not to the state, not to God, get your misdeeds off your chest.” The instructions read, “describe in detail what you have done and how you feel about it.” The messages were to be recorded, and at some point, played for the public.  Johnny’s voice bellowed down the receiver.  He spread AIDS to both genders, he confessed.  It was the 1980s - and the AIDS crisis was rapidly accelerating. It seemed Johnny had no desire to change. Johnny’s voice was among thousands and thousands who would call the hotline over fifteen years.  Some were ordinary civilians. Some were criminals. Their confessions were shocking. And the project itself would take its toll on Mr Apology.    CREDITS Guest: Marissa Bridge, host of 'The Apology Line' podcast Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s a cold winter’s night at Sydney’s Luna Park, nestled in the northern shore of Sydney Harbour. It’s June 9, 1979, and swarms of people ride the roller coaster and play inside Coney Island. The Tagline for the amusement park is “just for fun” - and it’s arguably one of the biggest attractions in Sydney.  But one of the most popular rides is The Ghost Train, which runs along 180 metres of electric track, most of it in total darkness. Dancing skeletons and dragons heads and an imitation fire make the ride spine-tingling, with a haunted voice cackling: “you’ll shiver and quake on the ghost train.” It’s almost closing time and a 12-year-old boy named Jason Holman is with four friends, about to board The Ghost Train.  For 45 years The Ghost Train has been running, without the slightest incident. Once you’re in, it only goes for two and a half minutes, but that’s enough time to deliver a thrill.  There’s nothing out of the ordinary. Two of his friends board the ride on one carriage, and then the next two in the following carriage.  Jason is last.  Just moments later, Jason’s four friends, students at Waverley College in Sydney, would be dead. He will survive, being dubbed the luckiest boy alive. But he doesn’t feel lucky. 42 years later, he still has questions.    CREDITS Guest: Caro Meldrum-Hanna, co-creator of Exposed: The Ghost Train Fire Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

True Crime Conversations explores the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. This month we’re focusing on Australia’s most notorious crimes... It’s lunchtime, on a cool Sunday in April, and the Port Arthur historic site is buzzing with visitors.  Located at the southern tip of the Tasman Peninsula, Port Arthur is located about 100 kilometres south-east of Hobart, the capital of Tasmania. The quaint village was once a penal settlement and a main drawcard for tourists visiting Australia’s southernmost state.  At around 1:10pm, a man named Martin Bryant pays his entry fee for the Port Arthur site and parks near the Broad Arrow Cafe. He sits in his car for a few minutes. He is seen walking towards the cafe, with a sports bag and a video camera. He orders lunch, which he eats on the outside deck. To onlookers, he looks slightly nervous, but otherwise like a normal man - likely a tourist visiting Port Arthur.  That morning, Bryant had awoken at 6am, which was unusually early for him. He left his home at 9:47am and drove to Forcett, arriving around 11am. Then, he continued on to Port Arthur, where he stopped at an accommodation site in Seascape. He hated the owners, David and Noelene Martin, who had bought the property before Bryant’s father had been able to. His father, Maurice Bryant, had been devastated and years later had ended his own life. Bryant blamed the Martin’s for his father’s death.  When he arrived at Seaside, he fired several shots, killing Noelene Martin, and then stabbed David Martin.  He then continued to Port Arthur, with a lightweight, semi-automatic rifle.  What followed, was the worst massacre in Australian history committed by a single person. 35 were killed, and 23 wounded.   CREDITS Guest: Anita Bingham Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan Get more Mamamamia true crime listening with this The Spill's latest WATCH CLUB here.   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

True Crime Conversations explores the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. This month we’re focusing on Australia’s most notorious crimes... It’s the 20th of May, 1999, an autumn day in South Australia.  For 12 months, there has been an inquiry into the disappearance of a woman named Elizabeth Haydon, a 37-year-old mother of eight. But it isn’t just her. Two other people from a similar area have been reported missing. And there has been no trace of them. But today police will storm a disused bank vault in Snowtown, a disadvantaged bush town about 150 kilometres north of Adelaide.  When they enter, they see six large plastic barrels. Inside are the remains of eight bodies that have been stored in acid. One is believed to be Elizabeth Haydon. The smell from inside the vault is said to be so bad the police need breathing gear. Some will be traumatised from what they see that day.  Following the discovery, police visit the former home of John Bunting. In his backyard, they find two more bodies buried.  That brings the tally to 10 bodies - making the crimes that have taken place the worst serial killings in Australian history.  They will come to be known as the “bodies in barrels murders” or the “Snowtown” murders, making the sadistic crimes perpetrated by a number of men forever synonymous with a small South Australian town.  But the subsequent investigation would determine that while the bodies were found in Snowtown, that’s not where most of the murders had taken place. They’d been executed in suburban homes. And for years, no one had noticed.   CREDITS Guest: Debi Marshall the author of 'Killing For Pleasure' and 'Banquet: The Untold Story of Adelaide's Family Murders' Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

True Crime Conversations explores the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. This month we’re focusing in on Australia’s most notorious crimes... It’s a Saturday night in the middle of July, 2001, when Peter Falconio and Joanne Lees travel down the Stuart Highway in their orange Kombi van.  Peter is 28, and in the driver’s seat. His girlfriend, 27-year-old Joanne, is in the passenger seat. They’ve been in Australia for a little over five months, first arriving in Sydney on a working holiday Visa. They’d come from Brighton in England, prepared for the trip of a lifetime.  On June the 25th, the young tourists departed Sydney to embark on a road trip across Australia, starting in Canberra, then on to Melbourne, Adelaide, Darwin and Brisbane.  The couple had been in Alice Springs, and are bound that night for the Devils Marbles, south of Tennant Creek. The road is long, and the drive notoriously remote. You rarely see another car, and the road extends as far as the eye can see, kilometres ahead. It’s eerie. If you stand on the side of the road, it’s so quiet and still you’re able to hear your own heartbeat.  They had stopped at the roadhouse in Barrow Creek, but once they set off again, they start to notice something unusual. A car. They keep expecting the car to overtake them, but it doesn’t. Along the expanse of road, a Toyota 4WD with a large green canopy in the back, approaches them. The driver gestures for them to pull over. Something must be wrong.  There is a twinge of fear. They’re alone. More than 15,000 kilometres from home. News had emerged recently in Australia and internationally of backpacker murders, with tourists like them disappearing in the Australian outback.  They pull the car over. A man approaches them.  And a few hours later, Northern Territory police get a panicked phone call.    CREDITS Guest: Colleen Gwynne Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

True Crime Conversations explores the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. This month we’re focusing in on Australia’s most notorious crimes... It’s the morning of February 6, 1986.  Australia as a nation, but more specifically New South Wales, is in a state of shock. Two days prior, the body of 26 year old nurse Anita Cobby had been found in a paddock in Prospect, 32 kilometres west of Sydney’s CBD. The news had broken that Anita had been murdered. But on the 6th of February, a morning radio host named John Laws obtained a leaked copy of the young woman’s autopsy report. All morning, he said, he considered whether or not to broadcast the details. He ultimately decided to. Laws shared explicit details about Anita Cobby’s injuries and the nature of her death, as Sydney siders drove to work or as they dropped their children at school. For a generation, those details would be imprinted on their psyche - a woman murdered in a manner beyond what any of us could ever imagine.  The events of February 2, the night Anita was murdered by strangers, has come to be understood as the most savage murder this state has ever known. When her killers were sentenced Justice Alan Maxwell described their crime as, "One of the most horrifying physical and sexual assaults. This was a calculated killing done in cold blood.” It remains a crime Australia won’t ever forget.   CREDITS Guest: Julia Sheppard the author of Someone Else's Daughter Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan The Quicky: The Secret Life Of Melissa Caddick   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

True Crime Conversations explores the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the most about them. This March we’re focusing on Australia’s most notorious crimes...from Anita Cobby to Snowtown. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s May 30, 1985, in Burbank, California. Spring is turning to summer, and the wide streets in the San Fernando Valley are lined with their signature palm trees. A 42 year old woman named Carol Kyle is at home with her 11 year old son. She doesn’t know yet that there is a man in her neighbourhood, driving a stolen car.  At some stage during the night, in the shadow of darkness, this man enters her home. At gunpoint, he binds Carol’s son with handcuffs and ransacks their house, demanding she tell him where her most valuable items are hidden.  Once he has collected a number of valuable goods, he rapes Carol, ordering her not to look at him while shouting threats at her. She complies.  When he is finished with Carol, he retrieves the little boy and binds him to her mother with handcuffs.  Then, he flees the scene.  Both Carol and her son survive this attack.  They are lucky.  So far that year, the Night Stalker as he will come to be known, has killed six innocent civilians. The year before, he killed two others. The youngest being a nine year old girl.  He is in the midst of one of the most destructive murder crime sprees in American history. But he isn’t like your text book serial killer. He is a serial rapist, kidnapper, pedophile and burglar, murdering some victims while letting others go.  For those who survive, they will never forget his face. It is the face of a monster.    CREDITS Guest: Detective Gil Carillo Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s February 5, 1907, and a short, dark haired man in his late thirties named Corporal O’Halloran is on the doorstep of a house on Edward Street in the city of Perth. He has been called there by the owner, a woman named Alice Mitchell.  Alice Mitchell is known to care for babies. Specifically, babies belonging to single parents, who have no choice but to return to work and earn a living. She has cared for dozens over the last six or so years. But she’s called Corporal O’Halloran there because she’s caring for a baby whose mother has disappeared. She is no longer sending her money.  “I’ve been keeping her baby for months,” she tells the man. “And I’ve received nothing from her. I keep them for a living,” she continues, referring to the babies. “I don’t keep them for the love of the thing. Her child wants nourishment and I’m unable to give it to her unless she pays me.” Corporal O’Halloran asks to see the child.  He watches Alice walk down her lino-covered hallway and collect a baby from one of the bedrooms. The infant is wrapped in a thin blanket, wearing a soiled cloth nappy. He notices the baby is pale, with her eyes inflamed. She is seriously underweight, emaciated, and limp, and the policeman notices a sickly smell coming from her. He grows concerned.  Alice says the baby is suffering from teething. And marasmus, a form of malnutrition.  O’Halloran is aware of the rumours. They’ve been following Alice for some time. But there’s never been a formal complaint, perhaps because of the shame so many single mothers feel.  What happened that day will start an investigation, as authorities look more closely at the home of Alice.  Where are so many of the babies she was meant to be caring for?    CREDITS Guest: Stella Budrikis - Author of 'The Edward St Baby Farm' Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Leah Porges Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s August 16, 2002, when a man named Shane Chartres-Abbott meets a client at South Yarra’s Hotel Saville. The 27-year-old is a male prostitute, who specialises in sadomasochistic sex. With him, he carries a black bag full of sex toys, including a whip, ropes, condoms and handcuffs. The woman he is meeting, 30-year-old Penny, is not a stranger. She too works in the sex industry. They’ve met for his services before, but have started to get to know each other, with Penny being one of Shane’s only clients to know his real name. She knows what she wants from him, and so the pair check in to room 307, closing the door behind them. By 11:20am the following morning, hotel management discovers no one has checked out of room 307. One man goes upstairs to check if anyone was still there. What took place in that room in the late hours of August 16, and the early hours of August 17, would set off a series of events that would culminate in murder, and the most expensive police investigation in Victoria’s history.  Did Shane turn into someone else inside room 307? And how can we explain what happened next?   CREDITS Guest: Adam Shand Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s the first day of Autumn, 1989, in an affluent Sydney suburb. Mosman is on the lower north shore and known for being comfortable and safe, a short distance from Taronga Zoo and Balmoral Beach. An 82 year old woman named Gwendoline Mitchell Hill is walking down military Rd towards her apartment in the late afternoon. She doesn’t know a man has spotted her, concocting a plan of what to do next. She won’t make it inside. And she will be the first known victim of a vicious predator who will ravage the streets of Mosman, Lane Cove and Belrose for the next 12 months.   CREDITS Guest: Former Detective Inspector Mike Hagan Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Leah Porges Producer: Gia Moylan   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The small town of Mylor, buried in the Adelaide Hills, has a population of just over one thousand people. Properties sit on sprawling bushland, between the mountainous terrain, and today people visit to camp or see the native animals.  It was October 1966 when eight year old Wendy Jane Pfeiffer, petite with short hair and rosy cheeks, decided to walk the family dog on a quiet Sunday afternoon. She took Bonnie, a brown and white farm dog, down a dirt track, which has barely changed in 55 years.  Wendy wouldn’t come back that afternoon. Or the next. A search began in the friendly, rural village, where bad things never happened. Pictures were circulated. Still, there was no sign of Wendy.  Where had she gone? Who had taken her?  And by some miracle, was it possible she was still alive?  CREDITS Guest: Kylie Boltin Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri  Producer: Gia Moylan CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s a sunny Saturday afternoon in Spring, 1930. Mena Griffiths is 12 years old and living with her family in suburban Melbourne. There’s a park she often visits with her friends and she asks her parents if she can go out and play. Her parents can’t know that there’s a man sitting at a local hotel bar. He’s about 30 years old. He is known to the community as a family man, with a wife named Bernice and a baby named Joan. At 18 he had been sent to a reformatory prison for theft. Shortly after his release, he was sent back to prison for armed robbery and wounding a station master.  They can’t know that his crimes are on the verge of becoming more extreme. And that as he watches the young girls play in the nearby park, he decides to finish his drink, and approach a little girl. They can’t know that what he does will only be the beginning. He will go on to commit a series of crimes so horrific, that he will be hanged at Pentridge Prison. CREDITS Guest: Katherine Kovacic Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri  Executive Producer: Gia Moylan CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In the 1980s, a brochure was printed across the world, for an idyllic holiday resort called Arous. It was a diving resort on the Red Sea, in the Sudanese desert. The brochure featured pictures of chalets on a bright beach, the sea almost the same colour as the skyBut what guests of the resort didn’t know was that Arous wasn’t really a holiday resort. At least not primarily. And the staff weren’t really managers, or diving instructors, or waitresses. Once the sun went down, those who worked at the hotel were part of a top secret mission, that not even their own families were aware of. And if the Sudanese government found out, it would cost them their lives. Raffi Berg is the Middle East editor for BBC News Online. He has extensive experience reporting on Israel and the wider region. His book 'Red Sea Spies: The True Story Of Mossad’s Fake Diving Resort' was written in collaboration with secret agents involved in the operation and tells the complete story of the case for the first time. This episode was originally published on June 18th, and is part of our 2020 Best Of series. CREDITS: Guest: Raffi Berg Host: Jessie Stephens Producer and editor: Elise Cooper RESEARCH ‘Red Sea Spies: The True Story Of Mossad’s Fake Diving Resort’ by Raffi Berg https://bit.ly/redseaspies-book  ‘Red Sea Diving Resort: The holiday village run by spies’, Raffi Berg for BBC News, Tel Aviv https://bit.ly/redseaspies-bbc  ‘Saving The Forgotten Jews’ BBC News https://bit.ly/forgotten-jews-bbc-news ‘The Daring Rescue of Ethiopian Jews From Sudan’, Israel First TV https://bit.ly/30Q77lR  CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]  Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples should be aware that this episode contains the names of people who have passed away. In 1988 the death of Mark Haines just outside of Tamworth in regional NSW was barely investigated by local police. The 17-year-old’s body was found on train tracks outside of town, but law enforcement treated his death as less than suspicious. You have only to pull on the threads of the case to find that the truth could be very far from that. Allan Clarke is a Muruwari man and an award winning investigative journalist, producer and presenter. Allan worked closely with Mark Haines’ family and friends for five years fighting for justice, and answers, culminating in the investigation of the case for the ABC podcast Unravel: Blood On The Tracks. Allan joins this episode to explore the case, the mis-steps by law enforcement, and the racial prejudices that hindered initial, and even ongoing, investigations. This episode was originally published on June 11th and is part of our 2020 Best Of series. CREDITS:Guest: Allan Clarke Host: Jessie StephensProducer and editor: Elise Cooper RESEARCH Unravel: Blood On The Tracks, ABC Podcasts https://bit.ly/unravel-podcast  ‘Footsteps On The Tracks’ by Allan Clarke https://bit.ly/footsteps-allan-clarke  State Crime Command will investigate Mark Haines death  ‘Blood on the Tracks Pt 1: Murder or misadventure, who killed Mark Haines?’ Australian Story, ABC TV https://bit.ly/aus-story-part-1  'Blood on the Tracks Pt 2: Unraveling Tamworth's body on the train tracks mystery’ Australian Story, ABC TV https://bit.ly/aus-story-part-2  Mark Haines’ family 2017 petition for the state government to offer a reward for information relating to Mark Haines’ death https://bit.ly/markhaines-family-plea  CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected] Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s July 2018 when Detective Gary Jubelin stands in front of microphones and news cameras and says the words: “I suggest you come to us before we come to you.”  He is addressing the person who knows what happened to three-year-old William Tyrrell on September 12, 2014. Little did Gary know that this case would be the one to cost him his job, but as he tells host Jessie Stephens on the latest episode of True Crime Conversations, he has no regrets.  Gary Jubelin is one of Australia’s most notable homicide detectives, known for leading the investigation into the deaths of three Aboriginal children in Bowraville, solving the murder case of Terry Falconer, recovering the body of Matthew Leveson and running the crime scene following the Lindt Cafe siege.  In his new book I Catch Killers: The Life and Many Deaths of a Homicide Detective, Gary shares the reality of working on investigations such as the disappearance of William Tyrrell and the toll his work has taken on his personal life. Throughout his career, Gary's focus has cost him friendships, relationships and, in the case of William Tyrrell, his job.  This episode was originally published on August 27th and is part of our 2020 Best Of series. CREDITSGuest: Gary JubelinHost: Jessie StephensProducer: Hannah Bowman  LINKS You can find Gary’s book HERE - https://bit.ly/2EEM4cA  RESEARCH The Bowraville Murders - 60 Minutes. https://bit.ly/3jdETXT   Mark Leveson speaks after Gary Jubelin's court appearance | 7NEWS. https://bit.ly/3hu3Yh5  CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s August, 2005, and Nicola Gobbo’s life is about to go in a direction she never anticipated.  Nicola is a successful defence barrister, best known for defending Melbourne’s most prolific organised crime figures, from Carl Williams to Tony Mokbel. But things have become very messy. She wants to get what she calls the ‘Mokbel monkey’ off her back. She’s become too involved in ways she says she never intended. She’ll later say she’s tired of being stood over by criminals who are manipulating the justice system. She’s scared and distressed, and close to breaking down.  When Nicola Gobbo arrives at the courthouse and finds two detectives standing outside, words spill out of her mouth and tears fall down her face. She tells them things she shouldn’t. The detectives see this as an opportunity, and suggest something that’s never been done before.  Her decision that day would affect thousands of people, and ultimately force her into hiding.  The most resounding question when it comes to Nicola’s behaviour is: why? This episode was originally published on October 22nd and is part of our 2020 Best Of series. CREDITS Guest: Rachael Brown Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia  Executive Producer: Zoe Ferguson LINKS To listen to the podcast Trace, visit: abc.net.au/trace CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Phillip Island lies just off Australia’s southern coast, about two hours from the city of Melbourne. In 1986, the Cameron family were well known on the island. Fergus Cameron was a founding shareholder of the Phillip Island Grand Prix, but day to day worked on the family farm. He was married to Vivienne Cameron, and the pair had two small children.  One night in September, the body of a 23-year-old woman was found inside her home in what has been described as one of the most horrific crime scenes. And then, another woman went missing. Immediately, police thought they knew what had happened.  But all these years later, there are still unanswered questions. A mysterious phone call. A handbag that was miraculously moved. And blood that revealed something no one was expecting... In 1993, crime writer Vikki Petraitis published her first book The Phillip Island Murder. Twenty-seven years later, she’s working on a podcast with Casefile about the case of Vivienne Cameron’s disappearance and is hoping to finally lay the mystery to rest.   CREDITS Guest: Vikki Petraitis  Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri  Executive Producer: Zoe Ferguson CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s Australia Day 1963, in the middle of a hot summer in Perth. A couple are sitting in a car, kissing and talking, in the beachside suburb of Cottesloe. They feel safe. It’s a safe neighbourhood in a safe city, and the night is still and empty. That is until the female notices, at around 2:40am, something outside the car window. It’s a man. Watching them. She alerts her male companion to the figure … who they realise is holding a rifle. They spring to action, trying to drive away as fast as they can. The man shoots at them, and she instinctively puts up her hand. She is injured, but the two escape alive. By the next morning, Perth wakes up to the news that five people have been shot, with three dead. It was a killing spree unlike anything Perth had ever seen. But that wouldn’t be the extent of Eric Edgar Cooke’s crimes. And while he killed innocent civilians, there were two men in prison, serving time for murders they had not committed.    CREDITS Guest: Tom Meadmore, Director of the Stan Original Documentary Series ‘After The Night’  Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri  Executive Producer: Zoe Ferguson CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was 2018 when Saxon Mullins, now 23, came out and said the four words: “I am that girl.” People had heard what had happened to a young woman in a laneway behind the Soho nightclub in Sydney’s King’s Cross.  They heard what a man, Luke Lazarus, son of the nightclub owner, said to her.  The public was also aware of what happened next.  But it took five years for Saxon to say those words, “I am that girl”, and she said them to ABC journalist Louise Milligan.  Saxon did what she was meant to do. She reported alleged assault. She turned up to court. She sat in the witness box and she told her story.  But, Louise Milligan asks, at what cost? Louise Milligan is an investigative journalist, a reporter for the ABC’s Four Corners program, and Walkley Award winning author. Her most recent book is Witness: An investigation into the brutal cost of seeking justice in which she explores Australia's legal system and how it treats witnesses.  She gives us a glimpse into a world so many of us will never see, and explores the stories of various witnesses, including Saxon Mullins and Paris Street.  CREDITS Guest: Louise Milligan, Reporter for ABC Four Corners and author, Witness: An investigation into the brutal cost of seeking justice  Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri  Executive Producer: Zoe Ferguson CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the second part of a two part episode. If you haven't listened to part one, listen here now.Launceston is one of Australia’s oldest cities. Just south of the city centre stands Launceston General Hospital, one of the main public hospitals in the state of Tasmania. The hospital treats a quarter of a million patients every year, and over 150 years has built trust within the local community.  The children’s ward is known as Ward 4K - filled with doctors and nurses doing their best to make a child’s stay as comfortable as possible.  But for more than 20 years, one nurse - a grandfatherly figure to so many - allegedly preyed on sick children.  It wasn’t until May last year, when a young woman referred to as Alice walked into Launceston police station, that everything would begin to change.  Her story, police would discover, was only the beginning.  This story is told by investigative journalist Camille Bianchi, the creator, host and reporter behind The Nurse podcast. The Nurse is about a former Launceston nurse named James 'Jim' Geoffrey Griffin who lived in a quiet town in Tasmania, and spent his life working with children. He also hid a dark secret.  CREDITS Guest: Camille Bianchi, creator and host of The Nurse podcast   Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri  Executive Producer: Zoe Ferguson CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Launceston is one of Australia’s oldest cities. Just south of the city centre stands Launceston General Hospital, one of the main public hospitals in the state of Tasmania. The hospital treats a quarter of a million patients every year, and over 150 years has built trust within the local community.  The children’s ward is known as Ward 4K - filled with doctors and nurses doing their best to make a child’s stay as comfortable as possible.  But for more than 20 years, one nurse - a grandfatherly figure to so many - allegedly preyed on sick children.  It wasn’t until May last year, when a young woman referred to as Alice walked into Launceston police station, that everything would begin to change.  Her story, police would discover, was only the beginning.  This story is told by investigative journalist Camille Bianchi, the creator, host and reporter behind The Nurse podcast. The Nurse is about a former Launceston nurse named James 'Jim' Geoffrey Griffin who lived in a quiet town in Tasmania, and spent his life working with children. He also hid a dark secret.  This is part one of a two part episode. CREDITS Guest: Camille Bianchi, creator and host of The Nurse podcast   Host: Jessie Stephens Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri  Executive Producer: Zoe Ferguson CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the second half of a two-parter. If you haven't heard part one yet, listen here and then come back to listen to part two.  Chris Regan, a 53-year-old war veteran and father of two sons, hadn’t been seen since October 14, 2014. Weeks turned into months, and as the lakes of Michigan’s Upper Peninsula turned to ice, there was still no sign of him.  Inside Chris’ car, police had found one item of interest; a handwritten note that appeared to be directions. At first, it hadn’t made any sense. But once police looked more closely, it became clear they were directions to the home of Kelly Cochran, a colleague who Chris was having a relationship with.  According to Kelly, her husband Jason Cochran was aware of her affair with Chris. Her affairs were simply part of their marriage. She’d seen Chris a few days before he’d disappeared, but she didn’t know where he’d gone, or why he’d left.  But police knew this wasn’t true.  Kelly knew far more than she was letting on. And they were beginning to suspect so did her husband Jason.   CREDITS Guest: Laura Frizzo Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia  Audio Producer: Ian Camilleri  Executive Producer: Zoe Ferguson Dead North is on Investigation Discovery - available to stream via Foxtel On Demand. CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Iron River, in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, is known for its scenic lakes, hiking trails, exceptionally cold winters and dense forest. It’s sparsely populated, and many who do live there are blue collar workers. Laura Frizzo was the first female Police Chief in Upper Michigan and worked for the city of Iron River for almost 22 years. She knew what sorts of crimes to expect. And then came a woman named Terri O’Donnell. Towards the end of October, 2014, 50 year old Terri arrived at the police station and told authorities that her ex-partner, Chris Reagan, was missing.  What would unfold over the following months, and then years, is a story of extramarital affairs, drug abuse and serial murder. One woman would come to be known as the black widow - capable of crimes far worse than anyone could have imagined. This is part one of a two-part feature.   CREDITS Guest: Laura Frizzo Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia Audio producer: Ian Camilleri  Executive Producer: Zoe Ferguson LINKS The true story is dramatised in the new docu-series Dead North on Investigation Discovery - available to stream via Foxtel On Demand. CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was mid 2016, when 28-year-old Angela Jay downloaded Tinder. Angela had come out of a long term relationship and had decided it was time to start dating again.  That’s when she came across the profile of a man named Paul Lambert. He had used the ‘Super Like’ feature on her, which meant he was especially interested in striking up a conversation. He was conventionally attractive with dark hair, friendly eyes, and a wide, warm smile with dimples on either side. Angela decided to reply to the 36-year-old, and quickly learned they had a lot in common.  Their first date was everything she wanted it to be. He was kind and interested, unashamed about how much he liked her. She couldn’t have known at that point who he really was, and the behaviours that lay in his past.  Then came the gut feeling that something wasn’t right.  It would end with every woman’s worst nightmare - a story that made national news and an event that Angela will remember for the rest of her life.   CREDITS Guest: Dr Angela Jay Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia  Executive Producer: Zoe Ferguson LINKS A link to the Ted X event in Sydney… https://tedxsydney.com/ CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s August, 2005, and Nicola Gobbo’s life is about to go in a direction she never anticipated.  Nicola is a successful defence barrister, best known for defending Melbourne’s most prolific organised crime figures, from Carl Williams to Tony Mokbel. But things have become very messy. She wants to get what she calls the ‘Mokbel monkey’ off her back. She’s become too involved in ways she says she never intended. She’ll later say she’s tired of being stood over by criminals who are manipulating the justice system. She’s scared and distressed, and close to breaking down.  When Nicola Gobbo arrives at the courthouse and finds two detectives standing outside, words spill out of her mouth and tears fall down her face. She tells them things she shouldn’t. The detectives see this as an opportunity, and suggest something that’s never been done before.  Her decision that day would affect thousands of people, and ultimately force her into hiding.  The most resounding question when it comes to Nicola’s behaviour is: why? CREDITS Guest: Rachael Brown Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia  Executive Producer: Zoe Ferguson LINKS To listen to the podcast Trace, visit: abc.net.au/trace CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was a Thursday night in December, 2001, when a woman named Janine Vaughan attended a nightclub in Bathurst called the Metro Tavern. Janine had lived in the small town, with a population of about 27,000 for the last three years, working as a manager at a local menswear shop. Hers was a face many in the community knew, considered conventionally beautiful with blonde hair, blue eyes, and a big smile.  In the early hours of that Friday morning, 31-year-old Janine walked out onto George Street, a few paces ahead of her friends. She was distressed, having lost her handbag somewhere in the nightclub. A few moments later, a red sedan pulled up. Her friends were unable to see the driver, but assumed it was someone Janine knew. She climbed into the passenger seat, and the car drove away. That was the last anyone has seen of Janine Vaughan - a woman known as fun loving and outgoing. Her mother, Jenny Vaughan, told The Sydney Morning Herald in 2012, “It was raining, she had no money, she had no phone, no key to get into her house. If it was just someone she knew from coming into the shop or who she knew from around town she would have got in. It wouldn’t have been someone she met that night.I think it’s someone that she knew and trusted them enough to get into the car.”  So, who was in the driver’s seat? And what did they do to Janine Vaughan? CREDITS Guest: Hedley Thomas Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia  LINKS The Night Driver Podcast by The Australian… thenightdriver.com.au CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Matthieu Heimel grew up knowing nothing about his biological parents.  His life in Perth had been enough for him until his two children began asking unanswerable questions about where he came from.  So in late 2018, Mattieu embarked on a DNA search for his mother and father.  He found his father Jerry relatively easily. He was a US serviceman who had been stationed in the Philippines in 1978 when Matthieu had been conceived.  Finding his mother proved far more difficult.  Using social media, he connected with members of his mother’s family. He was told that Nenita, the woman who had given birth to him 42 years ago, was missing. As he asked more questions, he learned that she’d moved to Melbourne in 1985, and then a few years later, she’d vanished.  The closer he looked, the clearer it became that Nenita had likely been murdered.  CREDITSGuest: Simon Illingworth Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia  LINKS The SBS on Demand series, Every Family Has a Secret… https://bit.ly/2SzrK0c Simon Illingowrth’s book, Filthy Rat… https://www.booktopia.com.au/filthy-rat-simon-illingworth/book/9780980417043.html CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was a tropical night in Caracas, the capital of Venezuela, and 45-year-old Luis Navia’s 25-year stint as a narco (a drug trafficker) was coming to an end.  Ever since he’d first tried the stuff as a young man, Luis had dealt large quantities of cocaine.  It was the era of Pablo Escobar, of the Netflix series Narcos, of Miami Vice,  Scar Face and  American Made. So much has been written and explored about the cocaine market of the late 20th Century but until now, none of those stories properly included Luis Navia.  Pursued for more than 12 years, Luis’ time on the run was drawing to a close. Luis would walk out the front doors of Tamanaco InterContinental airport and wait for a taxi. He didn’t know that he was about to be captured by the National Guard of Venezuela. He’d be threatened with a scalpel.  Once arrested, Luis was sent back to Florida where he would finally face justice. It’s where he had studied at university and where his parents lived. He emerged from the airport in a white shirt, khaki pants and brown shoes, looking like he didn’t have a care in the world. If he felt anything, it was relief.  His life for so many years had been one of secrets. He’d been held over a pit of crocodiles. He’d spent more money than anyone could ever dream of. No one, at that moment at least, knew his full story. Until it was told by Jesse Fink.  CREDITSGuest: Jesse Fink Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia  LINKS The book Pure Narco by Jesse Fink and Luis Navia… https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51192383-pure-narco CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was a summer night in 1986 when 26-year-old Anita Cobby met friends for dinner in Redfern.  Afterwards, the registered nurse caught the train from Central Station at 8:48pm, and arrived at Blacktown station just before 10pm.  Usually, Anita would call her father at the station and he would pick her up, but this night all the surrounding pay phones happened to be out of order. There were also no taxis available at the taxi rank. It was a beautiful, clear night and Anita decided to walk home. It was 10pm when a gang of five men pulled up beside Anita in a stolen car, grabbed her, and dragged her into the vehicle kicking and screaming. A number of witnesses on Newton Road in Blacktown heard the voice of a distressed young woman and called the police. It was the next day that the naked body of a young woman was found in a paddock at Prospect in Western Sydney. Police identified her as Anita Cobby.  One of the women working at Blacktown police station at the time was Deborah Wallace. She was around the same age as Anita, and similar in appearance. The lead detective would choose to do something unconventional in order to find who was responsible for one of the most horrific murders in NSW history. His approach would work, and ultimately it would change the course of Deborah’s career. CREDITS Guest: Deborah Wallace Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia  LINKS The Book ‘A Woman of Force’... https://www.booktopia.com.au/a-woman-of-force-mark-morri/book/9781760787356.html CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s early 2016 when a description of American woman Amy Allwine is posted to the Dark Web: “She’s about five foot six, she looks about 200 pounds. She should be driving a dark green Toyota Sienna Minivan.This bitch has torn my family apart by sleeping with my husband (who then left me), and is stealing clients from my business. I want her dead.” This post was in fact a call-out for someone to murder Amy Allwine, and be paid 13 Bitcoin (approximately $190,000) in return. But Amy hadn’t slept with anyone’s husband. She wasn’t stealing anyone’s clients. She had no enemies. So who could want her dead?  The police would eventually discover who wanted Amy dead. But they were too late.   In today’s episode Jessie speaks with Eileen Ormsby. Eileen is a lawyer, author and freelance journalist based in Melbourne. Her book, The Darkest Web, attempts to uncover the web's dark underbelly: a place of hitmen for hire, red rooms, hurtcore sites and markets that will sell anything a person is willing to pay for - including another person’s life.  CREDITS Guest: Eileen Ormsby Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia  LINKS Eileen Ormsby’s book, Silk Road… https://www.booktopia.com.au/silk-road-eileen-ormsby/ebook/9781743518113.html Eileen Ormsby’s book, Darkest Web… https://www.booktopia.com.au/darkest-web-eileen-ormsby/book/9781760297855.html CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s 1974 in the suburb of Hamilton, which is about four kilometres from the heart of Newcastle. The area is an idyllic backdrop for an Australian childhood, surrounded by incredible natural beauty, with lush bushland and sprawling beaches.   Many of the working class families in the suburbs of Newcastle are Catholic. Catholics belong to a parish, which has a church and a local priest. The Catholic schools in the area promise to propel students into the professional classes. Maybe they’d grow up and become a teacher or a nurse or a journalist or even a priest themselves. The three main schools in this particular diocese are Marist Brothers Hamilton, St Pius X in the nearby suburb of Adamstown and Marist Brothers Maitland. Two of these schools are, as their names suggest, run by Marist Brothers, who are an international religious community of men, dedicated to educating young people.  But on October 8, 1974, something unimaginable happened. A boy named Andrew Nash dies. It will take decades for his family to discover what happened to him.  In this episode, Jessie speaks with Suzanne Smith. Suzanne is a six-time Walkley Award winning investigative reporter, whose 27-year career in journalism has included senior editorial roles at the ABC, including on Foreign Correspondent, Background Briefing, Lateline and ABC News. During her time at the ABC she reported on the cover-up of clerical abuse, which helped to trigger the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse in Australia.  Suzanne’s new book, Altar Boys, is a powerful expose of widespread and organised clerical abuse of children in one Australian city, and how the cover-up in the Catholic Church extended from parish priests to every echelon of the organisation.  CREDITS Guest: Suzanne Smith Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia  LINKS A link to Suzanne Smith’s book, Altar Boys… https://booktopia.kh4ffx.net/QmWv3 CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s 1978 in the Californian city of Stockton. Bob and Gay Hardwick, a couple in their twenties, are asleep in the early hours of the morning. Suddenly, they’re awoken by a bright light shining in their faces. A man is standing at the edge of their bed holding a gun, with a black ski mask covering his face. Over several hours, Gay Hardwick is sexually assaulted by the armed intruder, while Bob is tied up, unable to move. The man behind the mask would come to be known as the East Area Rapist, or the Golden State Killer, and for decades, he would evade police.  In today’s episode, Jessie speaks with Andrew Rule. Andrew’s written about some of the biggest Australian crimes of the last 30 years and is currently acolumnist for  the Herald Sun, as well as host of his own podcast Life and Crimes with Andrew Rule. Andrew’s particularly interested in DNA tracing, which later became one of the most valuable tools to finding the Golden State Killer.  CREDITS Guest: Andrew Rule Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Lem Zakharia and Hannah Bowman  LINKS Watch ‘I’ll be Gone in the Dark’ on BINGE… https://binge.com.au/shows/show-i-ll-be-gone-in-the-dark!7063 Andrew Rule’s book, Cuckoo… https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3617067-cuckoo CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s July 2018 when Detective Gary Jubelin stands in front of microphones and news cameras and says the words: “I suggest you come to us before we come to you.”  He is addressing the person who knows what happened to three-year-old William Tyrrell on September 12, 2014. Little did Gary know that this case would be the one to cost him his job, but as he tells host Jessie Stephens on the latest episode of True Crime Conversations, he has no regrets.  Gary Jubelin is one of Australia’s most notable homicide detectives, known for leading the investigation into the deaths of three Aboriginal children in Bowraville, solving the murder case of Terry Falconer, recovering the body of Matthew Leveson and running the crime scene following the Lindt Cafe siege.  In his new book I Catch Killers: The Life and Many Deaths of a Homicide Detective, Gary shares the reality of working on investigations such as the disappearance of William Tyrrell and the toll his work has taken on his personal life. Throughout his career, Gary's focus has cost him friendships, relationships and, in the case of William Tyrrell, his job.  CREDITSGuest: Gary JubelinHost: Jessie StephensProducer: Hannah Bowman  LINKS You can find Gary’s book HERE - https://bit.ly/2EEM4cA  RESEARCH The Bowraville Murders - 60 Minutes. https://bit.ly/3jdETXT   Mark Leveson speaks after Gary Jubelin's court appearance | 7NEWS. https://bit.ly/3hu3Yh5  CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When it comes to violent crime, can what happened to someone as a child, ever justify their actions as an adult? In today’s episode, Jessie is speaking with a journalist, screenwriter, and author Mark Dapin.  In his book, Public Enemies Mark explores the lives of armed robbers Russell 'Mad Dog' Cox and Ray Denning.  In the 1960s, 70s, and 80s, armed robbers were the top of the criminal food chain. And Russell ‘Mad Dog’ Cox and Ray Denning were the best. Cox and Denning were once Australian Public Enemies Number One and Two. Both were handsome, charismatic bandits who refused to bow to authority. Their story as criminals is one of violence and crime, but it has a deeper meaning that may be traced to the horrors they faced as young boys... CREDITS Guest: Mark Dapin  Host: Jessie StephensProducer: Hannah Bowman    LINKS You can find Mark’s book HERE - https://bit.ly/324f5Xx     RESEARCH Tough Nuts | Ray Denning | The Runner. https://bit.ly/3hdbn41 Tough Nuts | Russell Cox | Australia's Most Wanted Man. https://bit.ly/34eYymm  CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was Saturday morning, when a routine police patrol drove past a mostly empty car park in the remote Queensland town of Mount Isa. When police edged closer, they saw that it was the body of a young woman, who they’d later discovered was named Patricia Carlton. She’d been brutally beaten and sexually assaulted. The woman was rushed to hospital, but later that night Patricia would die of her injuries.  Following Patricia’s murder, the police made an arrest almost immediately. But what happens when the process lets us down and the wrong person ends up in jail?  In today’s episode, Jessie speaks with forensic anthropologist, criminologist and author, Dr. Xanthé Mallet.  In her new book, ‘Reasonable Doubt’ Xanthé explores some of Australia’s worst wrongful convictions - including that of Indigenous man Kelvin Condren who was wrongly convicted of murder in 1984. CREDITSGuest: Dr Xanthé Mallett Host: Jessie Stephens Producer: Hannah Bowman  LINKS You can purchase Xanthe’s book HERE - https://bit.ly/30LEc1E  CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In today’s episode of True Crime Conversations Jessie speaks with Julia Robson. Julia is a private investigator, who spent 7 years on the trail of a New Zealand con man, who goes by the name of ‘Charlie’, who was scamming women online, promising them a better life, coercing them into relationships and even having children with them.  In her seven-part podcast ‘Chasing Charlie’ Julia speaks with the women who have been psychologically and financially abused by this man, and explains the trap she managed to set to finally bring him to justice.  CREDITSGuest: Julia RobsonHost: Jessie StephensProducer: Hannah Bowman  LINKS You can find Julia’s podcast Chasing Charlie HERE - https://bit.ly/39VuVXX  CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When Jose Martinez’s sister was murdered, he got revenge by murdering her killers. This sparked what would end up being three dozen murders, he completed over more than three decades, many of them on behalf of drug cartels, as a hitman. Despite being a ruthless killer, Jose is described as a soft-spoken doting grandfather and complete family man. In today’s episode, Jessie speaks with Jessica Garrison. Jessica is a senior investigative editor for Buzzfeed News and spent more than a decade as a reporter at the Los Angeles Times. In her book The Devil's Harvest - A Ruthless Killer, a Terrorized Community, and the Search for Justice in California's Central Valley, Jessica traces the life of Jose Martinez, the cops who were investigating him and the families of his victims.  Throughout her research, Jessica has studied decades of case files, Martinez’s handwritten journals, interrogation transcripts, and spoken to the people closest to this case to find the answer to one question. Why do some deaths, and some lives, matter more than others? CREDITSGuest: Jessica GarrisonHost: Jessie StephensExecutive Producer: Elise CooperProducer/Editor: Hannah Bowman  RESEARCH ‘I Killed 36 People’ - Buzzfeed News - https://bit.ly/2CNL7hT  LINKS You can find Jessica’s book HERE - https://bit.ly/305eyES   CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In December 2017, Larrimah local Paddy Moriarty left his favourite pub and embarked on the two minute ride home, with his kelpie Kellie sitting beside him on his quad bike. And then, he disappeared into thin air. Along with Kellie. Larrimah is a small town in the Northern Territory located 431 kilometers from Darwin and the nearest grocery store is 90 kilometres away. This tiny town only has a population of 10 people, so when Paddy disappeared it was big news.  In this episode Jessie speaks with journalist Kylie Stevenson. Kylie was the co-host of the Walkley award winning podcast Lost in Larrimah, alongside Caroline Graham. Ever since Paddy went missing, Kylie has had a personal and professional interest in the case, having met Paddy by chance a year earlier.  CREDITSGuest: Kylie StevensonHost: Jessie StephensExecutive Producer: Elise CooperProducer/Editor: Hannah Bowman  RESEARCH The Disappearance Of Paddy Moriarty - A Dog Act | ABC News - https://bit.ly/2ONn4Sl  Missing Man May Have Been Baked Into Pie | A Current Affair Australia - https://bit.ly/3eRkzt1  LINKS You can find Kylie’s podcast HERE - https://bit.ly/2OMfk3i  CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, Jessie speaks with one of Queensland’s most highly regarded police officers, Keith Banks, about his experiences as an undercover operative in the 1980’s. At 16 years old Keith traveled from Townsville to study at Brisbane’s Police Academy and by the time he was 21, the young, straight-laced country boy was risking his life to infiltrate some of Australia’s most dangerous drug syndicates.  To hide his identity Keith often became involved in the exact crimes he was hired to uncover. In his new book Drugs, Guns & Lies: My life as an undercover cop, Keith shares his incredible story in an era riddled with corruption.  CREDITSGuest: Keith Banks  Host: Jessie StephensExecutive Producer: Elise CooperProducer/Editor: Hannah Bowman  RESEARCH Fitzgerald Inquiry - The Corruption (Queensland State Archives) - https://bit.ly/3exKtlc  Retired QPS officer speaks out about Fitzgerald Inquiry. 7 News - https://bit.ly/32krdFs  LINKS You can find Keith’s book HERE - https://bit.ly/2OsmvgC  CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Peter Foster is one of Australia's most prolific career criminals. From diet products to sports betting companies, this con man stops at nothing. His crimes have found him with links to Muhammad Ali and UK Prime Minister Tony Blair. And he also appeared on Andrew Denton’s Enough Rope.  In this episode Jessie speaks with Justin Armsden, an award-winning journalist with over 30 years of experience in print and broadcast. He has worked as an anchor for CNN and an investigative reporter for A Current Affair.  Justin has been on the tail of conman Peter Foster for the last 25 years, famously tracking him down in Byron Bay a few years ago when he was on the run. Justin has now teamed up with private investigator Ken Gamble for a new Audible Original podcast King Of Sting, which retraces Peter’s years of fraud and the devastation left in his path.  CREDITSGuest: Justin Armsden Host: Jessie StephensExecutive Producer: Elise CooperProducer/Editor: Hannah Bowman  RESEARCH 60 Minutes Australia - Peter Foster: Notorious Aussie Playboy and con man. 1988 investigative by Mike Munro. https://bit.ly/peter-foster-60-mins  60 Minutes Australia - Secret recordings expose Australia's most notorious con man Peter Foster. 2020 https://bit.ly/ken-gamble-foster  Today Tonight and the underweight jockey SensaSlim claim is no stunt. https://bit.ly/today-tonight-sensaslim  LINKS Justin Armsden’s podcast King Of Sting - https://adbl.co/3fgEAKy  CONTACT US Tell us what you think of the show via email at [email protected]   Join our closed Facebook community to discuss this episode. Just search True Crime Conversations on Facebook or follow this link https://bit.ly/tcc-group  If any of the contents in this episode have cause distress know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636  Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.