Trapital

The biggest stars in the world, like Taylor Swift, Kendrick Lamar, and Drake, have all the leverage to go independent, but they continue to work with the major labels. A big reason why is that they sign licensing deals. These deals have shifted over time, and become much more artists friendly, especially for the superstars in the streaming era. We break down the different types of deals, how they’ve shifted over time, and unique case studies like Brent Faiyaz, Kanye West, and more. I’m joined by Brian “Z” Zisook from Audiomack, who is a wealth of knowledge on this topic. This episode is brought to you by EVEN. Buy the art from the artist. Learn more at https://get.even.biz/trapital This episode is also brought to you by SymphonyOS, the marketing platform for today’s creative businesses. Learn more at https://symphony.to/trapital Make sure you listen for our Chartmetric Stat of the Week!

The market is booming for generative music. Suno raised $125M and Udio has raised over $10M. The tools are impressive, but they raise some important questions: What data are these products trained on? Are startups in music incentivized to ask for permission? Is this what 'IG for music' looks like? Are these products or features? I'm joined by Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research. Hope you enjoy listening. Make sure you listen to our Chartmetric stat of the episode!

NPR Tiny Desk is 15 years old and arguably stronger than ever. It helped Usher perform at the Super Bowl. It helped Tank and the Bangas break through to a Grammy nomination. And it elevated the perception of artists like T-Pain and Mac Miller. But how does Tiny Desk maintain its influence? Any company can host a stripped-down acoustic series for artists to perform in their office. But even if they did, it wouldn't hit the same. In this episode, we break down the dynamics that make Tiny Desk work, the tradeoffs that the show balances, how it maintains its status over time, and what the future may hold. Listen to me and Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research break it all down. Make sure you listen to our Chartmetric stat of the episode.

The list of brands that Penske Media Corporation owns or has invested in is long: Billboard, Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, Rolling Stone, Music Business Worldwide, Deadline, and dozens more. What's Penske's long game? Are these companies better off? Where would these companies be without Penske? Which companies are most likely next? To break it all down, I'm joined by Bill Werde, former Billboard editorial director, author of Full Rate No Cap, and the Director of Bandier Program of Recording and Entertainment and Syracuse’s Newhouse School. This episode is brought to you by 4se New York, where sports and entertainment come alive. Make sure you check out our Chartmetric stat of the episode.

While Drake and Kendrick Lamar trade diss tracks back and forth, we decided to dig into the engine that makes it all possible. How has rap beef evolved in the streaming era and social media? Do the stakes still matter? Who makes money from these beef? How does this impact hip-hop's "decline"? I'm joined by BrandMan Sean, our friend of the pod who had a lot to say about this. Listen here or wherever you get podcasts! Make sure you listen to our Chartmetric stat of the week.

Private equity firm KKR has been fascinating to watch in the music rights landscape. Just when you thought they were out, they get pulled back in! In this episode, we break down the past few years of KKR's deals with Chord Music, Kobalt, HarbourView Equity Partners. Why did they sell Chord Music? Why did they partner with HarbourView? What does it say about the broader music rights investing landscape. Listen to me and Anna Nicolaou from the Financial Times break it all down. 00:00 KKR's $500M debt deal with Harborview 07:24 How rising interest rates affect the valuation of music 14:50 KKR vs other players in the industry 22:15 The role of UMG in the music rights landscape 30:25 Predictions on the current bidding wars This episode was brought to you by 4se New York, the sports and entertainment event on May 21-22. Learn more here. Make sure you listen for our Chartmetric stat of the week. Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

On April 11, Taylor Swift’s songs reappeared on TikTok despite the platform's ongoing dispute with her record label, Universal Music Group. This move was made in advance of the release of Taylor’s 11th studio album, The Tortured Poets Department. On this episode of Trapital, Tatiana Cirisano and I discuss why Swift and UMG don’t see eye-to-eye, competing incentives, who’s in charge at UMG, and more. 00:00 Why we’re not surprised Taylor Swift made this move 07:52 Why Swift and UMG have competing incentives 13:37 What it means for UMG and TikTok moving forward 24:27 Who’s the most powerful person in the music industry? This episode is brought to you by EVEN, where you buy the art from the artist. Learn more at https://get.even.biz/trapital Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

We've had plenty of conversations on Trapital about Diddy's business success, so we have to keep that same energy when outlook changes. On this episode, Zack O'Malley Greenburg and I talk about our initial reactions to the allegations surrounding Sean Combs, and we talk about the present state and future of the biggest businesses in his portfolio. Make sure you listen for our Chartmetric stat of the episode

Despite the all-time record highs for the live music industry, music festivals haven't quite had the same post-pandemic recovery. Several well-known festivals have closed up shop, and others have had slower than usual demand (even Coachella!) To break it all down, I'm joined by Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research. Hope you enjoy! Make sure you check out our Chartmetric stat of the episode!

Back in the day, each record label had a distinct consumer identity. In the 90s, you knew what to expect from an Interscope album. Def Jam, Jive, Uptown, Cash Money. They all had their own vibe, their own identity, their own brand. So... what the hell happened? In the episode, we talk about how music's landscape shifted, and took the consumer brands with it. Strong brands still exist today among today's music companies, but they operate more like B2B brands than B2C brands. I'm joined by Justin Hunte, music journalist, startup advisor, and former Editor-in-Chief of HipHopDX, and we break it all down. 04:20 Def Jam's fight for legitimacy and innovation. 06:59 Federal Communications Act - media consolidation impact 12:08 Media success relies on standing on giants' shoulders. 16:36 Hybe's Weverse maximizes label and artist reach. 18:21 Maximizing super fans to boost revenue. Consolidation. 23:07 Shift in entertainment from pandemic to 2024. 25:41 Changing music industry, companies adapting to trends. 28:37 Brand identity crucial; industry accolades have limits. 31:31 Share, rate, and spread the word. Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

It's time to dig into the mailbag again. I asked Trapital listeners to send me their most burning questions about the music industry. But this time we’re doing things a bit differently: you’ll be hearing the questions directly from our listeners. We dug into the TikTok vs. UMGc dispute, children’s entertainment media, and the Beyoncé - Verizon relationship leading to album ‘Act II: Cowboy Carter.” 00:00 UMG vs TikTok 15:17 Kids’ music 19:55 Beyoncé, Verizon, and Cowboy Carter Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

2023 was a big year for concert films. Taylor Swift's “Eras Tour” film became the highest grossing concert film of all time with nearly $270M in worldwide box office gross. Beyonce’s Renaissance film grossed over $44M. Was this just a Beyonce and Taylor thing, or will this continue? In this episode, I’m joined by Jimmy Stone, Founder of Alderbrook Companies, to dive deep into the rise of concert films, the economics behind them, the highest grossing concert films of all time, and so much more. At the end of our conversation, we also included an audio segment of the guest essay that Jimmy wrote for Trapital: “What Is Driving The Rise Of Concert Films?” 00:00 Why are concert films becoming so popular? 06:50 Transmedia storytelling in music 12:48 The economics of concert films 21:11 Which artist could make a successful concert film in 2024? 31:22 Jimmy’s essay: What Is Driving The Rise Of Concert Films? Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

There’s been a lot of discussion (and concern) about the impact of generative AI on music and whether the industry is on the verge of another Napster moment. But according to Jessica Powell, CEO of AudioShake, it’s going to take a lot more than a text prompt to kill music as we know it. On today’s episode, Jessica and I did a dive deep into the rise of generative music, its actual opportunities, and what it means for the industry moving forward. At the end of our conversation, we also included an audio version of the essay that Jessica wrote for Trapital: “Is Generative Music Really the Next Napster?” 00:00 Will AI music have a Napster moment? 08:07 The rise of generative music 12:14 Main challenges and opportunities 20:26 Audio essay: “Is Generative Music Really the Next Napster?” Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

This episode is about Hollywood's biggest night, the Academy Awards. I’m joined by friend of the pod Zack O'Malley Greenburg to dive deep into the Oscars, how it compares to the Grammys, its relationship with music, the money spent on campaigns, the dramas, the major controversies, and some wild theories. 00:00 The money behind the Oscars 06:30 Why the Grammys gets worse ratings than the Oscars 22:05 What happened to big movie soundtracks? 31:36 Controversies over the years 40:02 Biggest snubs of all time 44:39 How to improve the show Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

The late Virgil Abloh’s legacy lives on. From luxury rap to high fashion, his influence changed an entire industry, and several other adjacent ones. In this episode of Trapital, I’m joined by friend of the pod Zack O'Malley Greenburg. We broke down Virgil’s early years that shaped his future, his relationship with Kanye West, brands like Pyrex Vision, Off-White, his 3% rule, his open-sourced approach to business, his highs, lows, and so much more. 00:00 How Virgil entered the fashion world 07:44 Virgil’s influence on hip-hop and ‘luxury rap’ 15:57 Open-source fashion 23:23 The Virgil-Kanye West relationship 27:20 Legacy and controversies Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

The rise and fall of the Yeezy brand is a Hollywood screenplay in the making. But this is less like the movie AIR, and more like The Wolf of Wall Street. To break it all down, I'm joined by Zack O'Malley Greenburg, who covered the Yeezy business through his reporting at Forbes. Together, we explore Kanye West's partnerships with Nike, Adidas, and Gap and the highs and lows along the way. Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! 00:00 Kanye West enters the fashion world 08:52 You don’t have the answer, Sway. 24:56 Yeezy becomes a billion dollar brand 30:28 The downfall 37:04 Yeezy’s independent future Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

From gamblers paradise to entertainment mecca, on this episode of Trapital, we take a trip to Las Vegas and how its coveted residencies have evolved over time, the economics of how they work, and predictions for the future. I’m joined by Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research. We explore the Las Vegas’ origin with mob ties, the ground-breaking 2003 Celine Dion residency, and the changing demographic of Vegas attendees. Want to leave us a question for our upcoming mailbag episode? Leave us a voicemail at memo.fm/trapital This episode is brought to you by DICE. Want to learn more about how you and your artists can reach a packed room of your superfans? Learn more at dice.fm/partners Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! 2:30 Las Vegas evolution in music 14:26 Celine Dion's 2003 residency 21:50 The millennial demand 29:59 Weekends with Adele 41:42 The Sphere 48:04 The Future of Residencies Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

We hear a lot about superfans and how important they are for an artist, but we rarely see any data to quantify how valuable they actually are. In this episode, I'm joined by Will Page, author of Pivot and former chief economist at Spotify, to break down his most recent report, Soundcloud Rockonomics. We discuss the company’s Fan Powered Royalties, the user centric model, how artists like Lil Uzi Vert can measure their fans, and the impact on the industry. Today’s episode is brought to you by Bandzoogle. Build a stunning website today. Start your free 30-day trial and use promo code ‘trapital’ to get 15% off your first year. Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the episode! 00:00 SoundCloud’s fan-powered royalties 12:17 Lil Uzi Vert’s superfans 20:17 Helping artists nurture superfans 25:14 Streaming fraud 29:09 What the industry can learn from this model Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

This episode is about music's biggest night. But we’re not interested in who should win. This is about the business behind the show and everything surrounding it. We break down how the show makes money for CBS and the Recording Academy despite the viewership decline, the massive For Your Consideration business, the campaigning required to win an award, and major controversies over the years. I'm joined by Zack O'Malley Greenburg, friend of the pod, who covered The Grammys several times while at Forbes. This episode is brought to you by DICE. Want to learn more about how you and your artists can reach a packed room of your superfans? Learn more at dice.fm/partners Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! 00:31 Why The Grammys were started 08:04 The Grammys cultural impact over time. 16:50 How The Grammy elevated the perception of musicians 32:03 How The Recording Academy Works 52:15 Changes we would make to The Grammys Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

It's been over 10 years since State Farm's first Chris Paul - Cliff Paul ad. It's been over 20 years since GEICO first introduced the gecko. These ads from insurance companies have been the biggest ad campaigns and their impact continues to grow. I'm joined by Dr. Marcus Collins, who helped develop the Chris Paul - Cliff Paul campaign during his time at Translation. We talked about why there are so many insurance ads, how Chris Paul - Cliff Paul happened, and how its legacy lives on. This episode is brought to you by Primary Wave, the home for legends. Learn more about how Primary Wave continues to legacy of the biggest artists from yesterday and today at primarywave.com Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

Radio is the music format with nine lives. Despite all of the new evolutions in AI, streaming, and short-form video, radio continues to live on; and will do so for several more years. In this episode, I’m joined by a friend of the pod, Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research. We dive into radio’s impact in music over the years, current cutbacks and layoffs, and what the future of radio looks like in today’s era. Today’s episode is brought to you by Bandzoogle. Build a stunning website today. Start your free 30-day trial and use promo code ‘trapital’ to get 15% off your first year. Make sure you listen in for our new Chartmetric stat of the week! 09:100 The underestimation of radio’s impact. 15:20 Debates for royalty payments 22:20 How streaming flipped radio's role in promotion 37:15 The Breakfast Club's success 48:14 What streaming can learn from radio Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

Music has several big new stars with tons of talent, but will they ever have a year as big as Taylor Swift and Beyoncé in 2023. Both women have been commercially successful for decades and continue to dominate the charts even to this day. They came up in a different time, which works to their advantage. But what does this mean for the streaming and TikTok era artists who want to break through all the noise? Can they ever reach the same level of stardom? In this episode, I’m joined by Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research to discuss what it takes, the impact of streaming and TikTok, and whether artists like Billie Eilish, Dua Lipa, Bad Bunny and others will ever reach the level of superstardom of artists like Beyoncé, Drake, Adele or T Swift. 04:16 Breaking through in a saturated industry 08:32 Monoculture 09:36 The impact of streaming and TikTok 14:30 Billie Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo, Burna Boy, Post Malone 33:44 Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, SZA 58:29 Morgan Wallen, Bad Bunny 01:11:23 The monetization of streaming by genre This episode is brought to you by Steed, the tax strategy firm built for our industry. Trapital listeners can skip the 1,600 person waitlist and schedule your free tax consultation today. Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

It’s been 3.5 years since McDonald’s Travis Scott meal, and we still see new celebrity fast food meals all the time. In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Marcus Collins, author of “For the Culture,” as we explore how fast food chains like McDonald's bounced back to its partnerships with influential artists and musicians. Marcus and I discuss McDonald’s history in celebrity fast food partnerships, how other fast food chains have had their own meals, what works what doesn’t, and where things are headed. 03:20 Why McDonald’s partnered with artists. 07:19 McDonald's and the McJordan. 16:39 The impact of social media on celebrity fast food meals. 27:53 The Travis Scott meal. 44:47 How fast food chains partnered with artists. Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

Adidas has one of the most insane backstories of any major apparel company. From its ties to the Nazi party, and its turbulent relationship with Kanye West, to its partnerships with Hip-Hop, and its influence in soccer, we cover it all. We also talk about the brands rise, its strongest years, Beyoncé, Ivy Park, and why celestial star power isn't always enough. In this episode I’m joined by friend of the pod Zack O’Malley Greenburg as we break it all down. We examine Adidas’ story history, strategic moves, missteps and more. 03:40 Adidas’ history with the Nazi party. 20:04 Adidas' turbulent 1990s and missed opportunities. 34:12 Adidas’ Yeezy deal with Kanye West. 41:07 The Yeezy anti-semitism controversy. 47:19 Brands need to reconsider celebrity partnerships strategy. 58:20 Why Beyoncé and Ivy Park didn’t work. Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. This episode was brought to you by Audiense. Take your marketing strategy to the next level. Trapital listeners can start a free trial of Audiense. Learn more here. This episode was brought to you by Bevel . Get 20% off everything sitewide until 12/22! Visit getbevel.com.

It’s hard to imagine what music would be like today without YouTube. The platform has done more to lower the entry barriers to music creation and distribution than any other platform. From the early days when acts like Soulja Boy harnessed the raw power of YouTube to drive their careers, to modern narratives like NBA YoungBoy mastering Creator culture, in this episode we delve into how YouTube's become an essential player in the music industry. In this episode, I’m joined by Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research to discuss the origins of YouTube entering the space, the rocky relationships with music rights holders, the importance of UGC (User Generated Content), and so much more. [00:01:23] YouTube Enters The Music Industry [00:08:37] Google Acquires YouTube, DMCA [00:21:12] The Monetization-Exposure Trade Off [00:28:36] YouTube’s “Value Gap” [00:44:48] Improving Relationships With The Music Industry [00:49:49] Content ID [00:56:44] YouTube and AI This episode is brought to you by Downtown Music, the world leader in music services with over 2 million clients. Visit Downtown today to learn more. Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

How much money does the music industry really make on an annual basis? The answer is not as straightforward as you think. Most of the outlets that publish figures only report on one side of the business. But since 2014, former Spotify chief economist and author Will Page has made it his job to answer this question in his annual report on global music copyright. This year the global value is at $41.5 billion. In this episode, I’m joined by Will and friend of the show, Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research. We dive deep into the key findings of the report, the growth of publishing, vinyl sales, why “back catalog” is a dated term, AI’s disruption, and a whole lot more. [00:04:06] The need for data transparency [00:30:51] The rise of vinyl [00:46:43] How music relates to gaming [00:54:42] Streaming price increases This episode is brought to you by DICE. Want to learn more about how you and your artists can reach a packed room of your superfans? Learn more at dice.fm/partners Want to write a guest post while I’m on paternity leave in 2024? Here’s the form to fill out Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

It wasn’t that long ago that Reebok was head-to-head with the biggest athletic apparel companies in the world. In 1989, Reebok sales had exceeded Nike. In 2001, Reebok’s two biggest stars, MVPs Shaquille O’Neal and Allen Iverson, faced off in the NBA Finals. In 2003, two of hip-hop’s biggest stars, 50 Cent and Jay Z, had their own Reebok sneakers. But less then a decade later, the brand was a… struggling CrossFit brand under the Adidas umbrella. What happened? In this week’s episode of Trapital, Zack O’Malley Greenburg and I take a trip down memory lane. We examine Reebok’s rise, challenges faced, big partnerships, failed acquisitions, and missed opportunities. [00:03:35] Reebok vs. Nike [00;15;34] Allen Iverson and hip-hop [00;19;59] Jay Z’s S. Dots, 50 Cent’s G-Unit sneakers [00;34;39] Adidas acquires Reebok [00;51;03] ABG acquires Reebok [01;02;11] AI and Shaq now Reebok execs This episode is brought to you by Bevel. Beat the holiday rush and get 20% off the device of your choice. Offer ends Sun Nov 19. Get your device today. Want to write a guest post while I’m on paternity leave in 2024? Here’s the form to fill out Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

The Trapital Report 2023 is here! In this episode we break down a few big takeaways from the report on streaming, live music, the state of hip-hop, and the most valuable songs in the world. I’m joined by David Boyle from Audience Strategies, who first reached out to me about working on this report and we’ve been working together ever since. We have two report versions. You can download the free preview of the report here. We also have a premium version of the report available with insights on engaging superfans, emerging technology, country music’s moment, the impact of TikTok and short-form video, generational preferences, and more. You can buy the premium report here. [00:04:36] Hip hop outshines electronic music. [00:05:51] Hip Hop's growth was tapering off. [00:16:21] Headlines without context can impact decisions. [00:23:32] Fans want identity, self-expression, and memories. [00:33:11] Leaning in to generative AI. [00:35:24] How best to split the pie [00:42:55] Different worlds for artists on different tours. [00:46:00] Historical bias and price influence hip hop tours. [00:51:19] YouTube active users prefer pop audience. Thanks again to the report’s presenting sponsor, DICE, and our presenting sponsors, Downtown Music and Audiense for making this report possible. Thanks to Luminate and Pollstar for sharing your data with us, and thanks again to Simon Jacobs and David Boyle from Audience Strategies. Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

Apple has been the most influential company in music in the 21st century, and music was the major driver behind Apple’s comeback. Join us for a deep dive on where Apple was before its music journey, the impact of iTunes, Steve Jobs, iPod, U2, iPhone, Apple Music, Drake, Taylor Swift, Frank Ocean, and a whole lot more. I’m joined by friend of the pod, Zack O’Malley Greenburg. We discuss how music helped Apple exceed the value of the entire music industry. We also discuss the company’s strategy with software, hardware, and how it all worked together. Hope you enjoy it. [00:03:55] Steve Jobs returns to Apple [00:10:13] iTunes, iPod, iTunes Music Store [00:34:48] How U2 got their own iPod [00:44:20] Why Jobs was against subscription-based music streaming [00:51:27] Apple buys Beats Electronics [00:56:48] How U2’s album got on every iPhone [01:07:54] Apple Music launch [01:14:04] What would Jobs say about Apple’s current music strategy? [01:21:54] Apple Music’s old exclusives strategy Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

No new episode this week. We’re working hard on this year’s Trapital Report, which is out at the end of October! Make sure you’re signed up for our email newsletter to get the report once it’s live. Next week we’re back with another deep dive episode. Listen to this brief episode for a few hints! Talk to you next week.

This episode is all about Pandora Music. In the post-iPhone era, Pandora was the early favorite in music streaming. We break down its decade-long journey to get there, its rise in popularity, IPO, SiriusXM, and how and why it got beat by other competitors. I’m joined by friend of the show, Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research. Here’s what we discussed: [00:05:50] The Music Genome Project [00:09:37] Rejected by 300 VCs [00:14:44] Pandora’s legal battles [00:18:22] Pandora vs Spotify [00:40:50] The SiriusXM era [00:54:15] Changing culture Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

In May 2023, I gave a talk at the Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business - Black Leadership Conference. I explored the future of music, industry trends, and its impact on Black artists. Hip-hop culture sets the trends that society follows. I explore all that and more. [00:06:18] Beyond the vanity metrics [00:08:06] Whitney Houston estate [00:13:16] The OutKast Edge [00:19:51] Q&A: Leveling up at each stage of growth Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

You can't tell the story about hip-hop without telling the story of Def Jam. We break down the business behind of one of the most iconic record labels of all time. Join me, Dan Runcie, and friend of the pod, Zack Greenburg, as we discuss the triumphs and challenges that shape Def Jam and its legacy. [00:04:44] Def Jam influence on modern hip hop [00:08:59] How Russell Simmons and Rick Rubin met [00:18:18] Simmons and Rubin part ways [00:26:23] Lyor Cohen takes over, Polygram deal [00:34:24] Def Comedy Jam and Def Poetry Jam [00:42:59] Late 90s run: DMX, Jay Z, and the UMG sale [00:52:11] Def Jam Vendetta [00:58:27] Jay Z becomes CEO [01:12:09] LA Reid, Def Jam in the 2010s [01:21:54] Most effective Def Jam CEO? [01:28:31] Dark horse move? [01:38:05] Missed opportunities Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

This is a solo episode! I break down four important topics: Saudi Arabia investing in music The “Song of the Summer” is no more Pop star decline: winners, losers, and trends Spotify’s podcast strategy and the creator economy [00:04:22] Saudi investors exploring entertainment and tech, except music. [00:07:50] Music festivals present opportunity for strategic investment. [00:08:47] Investment activity in acquiring back catalog. [00:13:12] Songs of summer: fragmented, subjective, lost meaning. [00:16:52] Song anticipates spring/summer, dominates airwaves, summer-themed video. [00:20:51] Pop star decline: articles highlight big changes. [00:24:22] Limited inventory shifted to infinite digital options. [00:28:20] Music industry shifts in less than a decade. [00:32:12] Valuable data for advertisers and podcasters. [00:36:05] ConvertKit founder rejects Spotify acquisition attempt; insights on equity sharing for bootstrap businesses. Podcasters' success rate low but valuable. Creator economy companies seek capital for growth. [00:38:27] Unicorn-like success stories, underestimated expectations. [00:41:27] Personalized services to artists, potentially disrupting the traditional role of major record labels. Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

In today's episode, I’m joined by Kakul Srivastava, CEO of Splice. We discuss the untapped potential of the music production market, how music shapes our lives, and the need for more accessibility in music. We also discuss the potential of AI in creative tools, Splice’s future, and more: [00:04:56] Music’s overlooked and underserved market [00:06:43] A tale of two cities [00:12:29] The digital music producer market [00:21:26] The right balance with AI [00:29:56] Leading with empathy [00:33:12] Hard decisions made at Splice [00:41:05] Splice and the billion-dollar exit [00:46:39] How Nike inspires Splice This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by readingTrapital’s free memo.

Napster. The name alone brings back memories of the wild, wild west of the dot-com bubble. We'll take you back to the late 90s and early 2000s. Sean Parker and Shawn Fanning’s creation was a game-changer. But was its influence bigger than its actual impact? Who won and lost the most from Napster? Could the situation have been handled differently? We break down all that and more I’m joined by Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research. Here’s everything we covered this episode: [00:002:13] Napster's rise [00:8:25] CD boom, internet growth, Sean and Shawn [00:13:43] Internet culture in the late 90s [00:18:21] Napster's early growth in users. [00:25:07] Artists picked sides on the Napster debate [00:36:55] Legal and business model challenges. [00:42:13] When Napster shut its doors [00:48:32] Asking for permission vs forgiveness [01:00:10] Limewire, BearShare, and KaZaa [01:08:16] Life after Napster for Shawn Fanning and Sean Parker [01:14:41] Where Napster is today This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

I Want My MTV! We broke down one of the most influential companies in music: MTV. I’m joined by friend of the pod, Zack Greenburg, who wrote a book about one of MTV’s biggest star’s ever, Michael Jackson. We discuss the highs, lows, challenges, controversies MTV faced. From its business model over the years, shift to reality TV, VMAs, TRL, Yo MTV Raps, impact on culture, and its missed opportunities. [00:08:43] MTV business model, rise of cable TV, untapped teenage market [00:15:50] The impact of Michael Jackson and “I Want My MTV” [00:25:22] How MTV sparked one-hit wonders [00:30:01] Yo MTV Raps! [00:38:59] Movies, VMAs, and more [00:53:55] Reality TV vs music videos: what fans really want? [01:00:47] MTV animated shows, spring break, Super Bowl, Rock the Vote [01:05:58] Music industry peak, TRL, and big budget music videos [01:12:17] Why Ridiculousness is now on MTV all the time [01:20:44] MTV’s missed chances over the years [01:37:26] Who won and lost the most from MTV? This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

Taylor Swift is on track for the first $1B+ tour ever, but that’s old news.. In this episode, we look beyond the public drama surrounding her masters and unpack the questions that have been overlooked. How valuable are the original recordings compared to Taylor’s Version? How will that change once '1989' is re-released? How much money will Ithaca Holdings, Shamrock Capital, Big Machine Label Group, and Taylor herself make in the end? Can anyone else in the music industry pull this off?? Join me and Tim Ingham, founder of Music Business Worldwide, as we unravel the complexities and explore the various stakeholders involved, offering insights and analysis from industry experts. 02:48 Taylor Swift’s record sales and tour results 10:47 Taylor’s NDA with Scooter Braun and 13 Management 17:18 Scooter Braun buys Taylor’s Masters 23:47 The Value of Taylor’s catalogue overtime 28:02 Shamrock Capital ownership of Taylor’s original versions 29:18 Taylor Swift's re-recordings 41:31 Tim’s experience writing deep dive articles on Taylor This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo.

August 11, 2023 is the 50th anniversary of hip-hop. What started out mostly as a spoken word artform has become a worldwide juggernaut. Thanks to the moguls who pushed the genre forward, hip-hop went from 0 to 100. In this episode, we rank the 50 greatest moguls in hip-hop’s history. We reached out to industry experts — from artists to execs to media personalities — to help us compile the list. Friend of the pod, Zack O’Malley Greenburg, joins me to count them down from No. 50 to No. 1 0:39 How do we define “mogul” 7:06 Honorable mentions 09:10 The “Don’t overlook their influence” group (ranks 50-41) 16:19 The “Playing chess not checkers” group (ranks 40-31) 23:38 The “Our impact runs deep” group (ranks 30-21) 33:47 No. 20 35:37 No. 19 37:56 No. 18 41:32 No. 17 44:27 No. 16 47:21 No. 15 51:22 No. 14 55:55 No. 13 59:09 No. 12 1:00:46 No. 11 1:02:16 No. 10 1:04:39 No. 9 1:06:44 No. 8 1:10:20 No. 7 1:14:06 No. 6 1:15:37 No. 5 1:17:11 No. 4 1:20:53 No. 3 1:29:06 No. 2 1:30:34 No. 1 1:33:22 Who got snubbed? 1:35:42 What trends stick out from the list? 1:41:21 Who would you pick to run your empire? Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guests: Zack O’Malley Greenburg, @zogblog This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Zack Greenburg: ownership. Was just such an important thing for Nipsey. Such an important thing for Berner. And, you know, interviewing the two of them, I would say, their mindset around ownership was the closest I've ever seen to Jay Z. [00:00:13] Dan Runcie Intro Audio: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:00:39] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: This episode is a celebration to hip hop's 50th anniversary. This is a countdown on the 50 greatest moguls ever in hip hop. I'm joined by Zack O'Malley Greenburg, friend of the pod, and we both reached out to. A bunch of label heads, executives, people in hip hop that would know best. And we put it together in an aggregate list. And we're here to break down that list today. We talk about what does it mean to be a mogul? What are some of the considerations we made when we were looking into this list ourselves, how the results looked, what surprised us? What were the snubs? What were the misses? And what can we learn from this overall? And if Zack and I were putting together our dream teams, what would that look like? This is a lot of fun. Really happy with how it turned out. So let's dive in. [00:01:25] Dan Runcie: All right, hip hop's 50th anniversary is right around the corner and we decided to celebrate it in the only way that we know best countdown hip hop's greatest moguls and I'm joined by Zack O'malley Greenburg, who reached out to me about this. I was really excited about it and we spent some time over the past couple of weeks, reaching out to people we know, making sure that we have the best insights looking through and making sure that we had all of the. Breakdowns to share. So Zack, I'm ready for this. How are you feeling? [00:01:55] Zack Greenburg: I am stoked. Yeah, I mean, you know, 50th anniversary of hip hop. We reached out to 50 different judges. amongst, you know, the sort of, the most respected folks from, you know, label heads to artists to entrepreneurs, you know, I think we've got half of them, roughly half of them replied since in their votes, we're going to keep their individual votes anonymous, but, you know, Dan could tell you about some of the judges. Yeah, and it was just really fun to kind of mix it up, you know, I think the thing about this list, a lot of these characters are just kind of an apples to oranges comparison as you'll see once we dive into it, but that's the beauty of it, right? I mean, how do you, you know, compare like a pioneering executive to like a modern day artist mogul? And we really kind of left it in the hands of the judges. And we just said, basically the only guidance was, this is a business focused list, but you know, you can rank artists, executives, people who are both. It just, whatever your definition of mogul is, that's how, you know, that's how you should rank them. And people submitted lists and obviously the higher they rank somebody, the more points we gave them and, you know, the lower they got, but, you know, so there's some people on there who are like accumulators. They ended up on everybody's list, but not so high, but, you know, as a result, they ende

Episode title: The State of the Middle-Class Artist The “middle class musician” is a popular talking point in the industry. Several platforms have been built to serve this group. But what exactly is a middle-class musician? How can they get ahead when the major companies are incentivized to support the superstars? How does the 1000 True Fans theory apple here? And which companies do a great job of serving them today? I talked to Tati Cirisano of MIDiA Research to break it all down. Here’s everything we covered this episode: 0:44 How much money does a middle-class musician take home? 9:05 How the 1,000 True Fans theory works in the steaming era 16:06 Why platforms struggling to serve middle class 18:33 What fans actually want from artist-specific subscriptions 21:23 How touring is for the middle class artists 23:21 Artists catalogs generating $20k+ from Spotify 26:25 Good data vs bad data 28:49 MIDiA’s Bandsintown return to live study 34:39 Why Pandora struggled to serve the middle class 36:18 Is serving middle-class musicians a viable business model? 48:13 Will middle-class musicians have it easier in 20 years? Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guests: Tati Cirisano, @tatianacirisano This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Tati Cirisano: If an artist is trying to sell them something for 300 just so that they make 50 or whatever it is that translates to the fan as them having to spend so much money just to prove that they're a fan of the artist. So we don't want to. harvest people's fandom, we want to cultivate it. And the current industry makes it hard to fulfill that promise. [00:00:17] Dan Runcie Audio Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:00:44] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is about the state of the middle class artists. It's a very different world than it was 20, 25 years ago. If you talk to artists back then, who are now frustrated with the current model, they'll tell you that the nineties and the eighties were a great time for middle class artists. You could sell a few tens of thousands of CDs per year. You could still bring home enough for you and your band and others to earn a living off of that. But those economics get a lot harder in the streaming era where you need millions of streams, if not more. Just to make that same revenue that you did 25 years ago. But because of the streaming era that we're in now, it's also opened up many more opportunities for different revenue streams, both in real life and through digital communities and online marketplaces and things like that. So with all of that change, all that dynamic. Where does that leave us? So for today's episode, I'm joined by Tati Sirisano. She's dug into this topic specifically with some of her work at Media Research and a lot of the analysis she's done on fandom. So where are we with middle class musicians? What does it mean to be a middle class musicians? And for all of the platforms out there that are aiming to serve middle class musicians, who's actually doing it well? Let's dive in. [00:02:00] Dan Runcie: Today's episode is all about the middle class musician. This is a group of artists that is often talked about in the industry from all of the companies, all of the services that are trying to help artists, but how many of them are actually serving artists and doing it in a meaningful way? And I'm here to talk about it with someone who's talked about and read about this topic herself, Tati Cirisano, welcome back to the pod. [00:02:26] Tati Cirisano: Thanks, Dan. I'm excited. I love a thorny topic and there are many thorns to this one. A lot of contradictions, a lot of really, I don't know, interesting viewpoints. So I'm excited to get into it. [00:02:39] Dan Runcie: So first let's define middle class musician. When you hear the term, when you use the term yourself. What are you referring to? How do you define that group? [00:02:49] Tati Cirisano: Yeah. Well, it's, funny because if you think about a middle class musician as someone who's earning a sustainable living wage from their music, there's very few artists as we know, that actually do that. Like some of the successful, you know, relatively well-known artists that we listen to might not even fit into that description. so I think it is, you know, a pretty small group. but that's what I would define it as, I gues

Travis Scott is in album mode. Utopia will be his first album since 2018, but a lot has changed since then. The industry isn’t as hip-hop dominant, hypebeast culture has shifted, and Travis is still navigating things after the 2021 Astroworld Festival tragedy. How will all this influence Utopia? I broke it all down with friend of the pod, Denisha Kuhlor. Here’s what we covered: 0:43 How hip-hop has changed since Astroworld 8:23 Travis sold a lifestyle to success 9:29 Why Travis attracted category-leading brand sponsors 13:51 Lasting effect of Astroworld Festival tragedy 19:11 How will the “Ragers” respond to Utopia? 24:12 Over/under on Utopia’s first-week sales 30:01 Pyramid performance in Egypt 31:09 Did Travis miss out on building out a major independent brand? Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guests: Denisha Kuhlor, @denishakuhlor This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Denisha Kuhlor: When we look at the caliber of the brands that he was able to pull, I think that was the difference between him being a 10 or 20 million a year artist that we were who we would be praising his work ethic versus this $100 million artist that were like, wow. [00:00:17] Dan Runcie Intro Audio: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:00:43] Dan Runcie: All right, we're going to get deep into the world of Utopia. Travis Scott is upon the release of his fourth album, and this one has been long anticipated for several years now. But a lot's changed since the last time that Travis Scott released his album, Astroworld, which came out summer 2018. But there's been two big things that have happened. One, the pandemic. And then two, the tragedy of the Astroworld concert, and we have seen the heights of Travis Scott in that era, thinking specifically about the Fornite series that he had, we've also seen the lows of it as well, especially given the aftermath of the people that died and all of the injuries and all of the broader conversations around concert safety. Travis Scott's role in this himself and other things too. And I want to talk about this with you. So we have Denisha Culloran, who's the founder of STAN. You work specifically in artist engagement and have written pieces on many of the superstars. Let's first start with where hip hop is because we're now in 2023, and I feel like we're in a very different spot than we were when Travis Scott released his last album, Astroworld. So what's changed for you? Where were we with hip hop then and music then? And where are we now? [00:01:59] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I think that hip hop is, undergoing a new era, at least from a quantitative or commercial success standpoint, in the last few years and probably in some ways due to the pandemic, I feel like we've seen the emergence of what I like to think of as dance music. I mean, Beyonce released a dance album, Drake, one of the biggest hip hop stars himself released a dance album. Even when you look at the rise of music, non English music, right? Whether that's music coming out of Africa or, you know, what Bad Bunny has done as well. People are, gravitating to music that doesn't necessarily have to do with the lyrics in the way that rap shines. So I would say to sum it up that rap is having, a bit of a fall from dominance. [00:02:46] Dan Runcie: And it's interesting with Travis Scott too, because I feel like he benefited from this transition to an era where people aren't necessarily listening for. The lyrics, the people that love Travis Scott were so much more interested into the vibe, this rager mentality, and he was a hip hop rock star in terms of how he built himself. And I don't know if a song like highest in the room is necessarily 1 that you're trying to hear in a club, or you're trying to hear dancing, but and so do you think that this transition away from lyrics and more divides? Do you think this hurts someone like Travis or helps them? [00:03:22] Denisha Kuhlor: You know, I like that categorization, hip hop, rock star. I mean, if we were to look at the charts, the one person who has waved the flag for hip hop this year, truly from a commercial standpoint, is Lil Uzi Vert. And I would compare him or categorize him the same way. So when I think about, when I think about that, I say it helps him. [00:03:44] Dan Runcie: Lil Uzi Vert did sample System of a Down in his most recent album.

Few record labels have left their stamp on the industry quite like Motown. This assembly line churned out hit song after hit song in the ‘60s and early ‘70s. With a who’s-who roster — Marin Gaye, The Jackson 5, Diana Ross, and Stevie Wonder, among others — The Hitsville U.S.A. sign Gordy put on Motown’s front door became warranted. This episode is the story of Motown Records — it’s formula for success, what led to its decline, and where it stands today under Universal. I’m joined by friend of the pod, Zack O’Malley Greenburg. Here’s what we covered in this episode: 0:38 Berry Gordy’s origin story 8:08 Motown museum in Detroit 9:20 Cultivating a culture of creativity 13:05 Shifting the sound of Black music 20:12 Motown’s knack for discovering talent 34:29 The beginning of the decline 36:12 80’s decade of transition 39:48 Post-Gordy struggles 45:51 Motown’s uncertainty today 53:59 Best signing? 55:16 Best business move? 568:45 Dark horse move? 1:01:58 Biggest missed opportunity? 1:07:13 Motown big-screen picture 1:09:22 Berry Gordy won big 1:10:41 Who lost the most? 1:14:56 Zack’s Jay Z index Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guests: Zack O’Malley Greenburg, @zogblog This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Zack Greenburg: Berry Gordy created with Motown and sort of the Motown genre, which I think really like more than any label has become synonymous beyond just sort of like the name of label itself, you say Motown music, and a testament to the sound that he created, [00:00:13] Dan Runcie Audio Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:00:38] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is a deep dive into the one and only legendary Motown records. At its peak, Motown was the most successful black business in the country. It peaked at 30 million dollars of revenue in 1968 and Barry Gordy and his team assembled a sound. a unique genre of music that produced hit after hit after hit and Hitsville USA lived up to its promise. So in this episode, we take you through the origins of how Motown came to be. What are some of the business principles and strategies that worked in its favor? And then what are some of the challenges that Motown faced too? It's now been 50 years since the peak of Motown. And this record label has had plenty of ups and downs and plenty of journeys that we went deep on in this episode. And I'm joined by Zach Greenburg He is a biographer of Jay Z and several others, and he also wrote about Michael Jackson. And in that he talked about Michael Jackson's time with Motown, especially in the Jackson 5. So we had a lot of fun in this one. So come take a trip down memory lane with us. Here's our episode on Motown. [00:01:42] Dan Runcie: All right. Today we're back with another case study style episode, and we're going deep into Hitsville, USA. Motown, baby. Let's do this, Zack, I'm excited for this one. [00:01:53] Zack Greenburg: Thanks for having me as always. [00:01:55] Dan Runcie: Berry Gordy is so fascinating because At one point, this was the most successful black business. They're the most successful black entrepreneur in the country invented a genre. And it's so hard to be able to do that. And that legacy still lives on today. We know so many record labels that have taken inspiration from what Berry Gordy built with Motown records, but let's start from the beginning. What inspired Berry Gordy to even want to get involved with music in the first place? [00:02:23] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. So, you know, Berry Gordy, and his family were in the Detroit area, you know, a bunch of serial entrepreneurs, get a record shop early on, but he was actually like semi professional boxer coming up. And, think one thing led to another and you just kind of saw that, you know, there was a market that was not being served in music. you know, certainly like the business was concentrated, on the coast and particularly in New York at that time, you know, eventually more in LA, but. you know, there was some stuff going on in Chicago. there was some regional acts, regional labels, things like that. But, you know, I think he just basically saw an opportunity, to start something. And, you know, sort of in the way that if you look at, Richard Branson or Puffy or, you know, what are those types of entrepreneurs? It's almost It doesn't really matter what they get into. They find

The media commentary on hip-hop’s decline is stronger than ever. Especially since it took six months for a rap album to top the Billboard 200 in 2023, and no rap song has topped the Hot 100 yet.. Is hip-hop slipping? Or is there more to this story? is slipping or others are merely catching up? To break it all down, I’m joined by The Wall Street Journal’s Neil Shah, who has written about this extensively. 0:40 Our take on hip-hop’s “decline” 4:51 Upcoming albums that may top the charts 8:48 How Billboard charts work 17:40 Hip-hop over indexed when streaming took off 18:30 Was hip-hop held back in the past? 20:26 Implications of chart performance 22:55 Gaming the system with album bundles 32:49 Are album equivalent units the best way to measure success? 35:13 Hip Hop’s market share in 5 years 45:16 Music recycling IP vs. developing new one Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guests: Neil Shah, @NeilShahWSJ This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Neil Shah: While it looks like hip hop is suffering a little bit right now, or in this cooling period, maybe it's tentacles have stretched out So much, it's influences so total that it's actually become the bedrock of a lot of pop music. [00:00:12] Dan Runcie Intro Audio: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:00:40] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: This episode is about the state of hip hop, which has been quite the topic over the past year. So it was right around this time in 2022, when we started to see articles and stories and reports pop up about hip hop's decline in market share. This is specifically looking at the US listening consumption over time for hip hop artists that were producing tracks. And after a record number of years of growth in hip hop is eventually becoming the most listened to genre of music in the 2010s. We started to see that growth slow down relative to other genres. And there's a number of reasons for this, a number of reasons that are unfair, a number of reasons that require a little bit more digging into and to break it all down. I was joined by Neil Shah from the wall street journal. He's written about this himself. Him and I've talked about this both on and offline, and we decided to bring it together to talk about all the various factors. What does this mean for the music industry? What does it mean for the artist in the industry in terms of the budgets that they get? And is this even fair when we think about all of the factors in place with regards to streaming, where audiences grow, whether hip hop artists and their fans are more likely to be early adopters versus other genres, some of the rules that Billboard and other entities make that influence how these charts get factored in vinyl and a whole lot more. So let's dive into the state of hip hop. [00:02:05] Dan Runcie: All right. We're back for another episode this time. Neil Shah from the wall street journal makes his return. Welcome back. [00:02:11] Neil Shah: Thanks for having me. [00:02:12] Dan Runcie: And today we're going to talk about a topic. Both you and I have written about, thought about and has come to a head this past year. And that's the state of hip hop and where it lies relative to other genres right now. I'm sure many of you have seen the stats dating back as early as last year. When many outlets really started to talk more about hip hop's market share of its overall listening relative to other genres, which genres are growing at faster rates than others, which are declining. And now we're in this place in 2023. We're still as of the end of June, almost six months through the year, not one rap album has topped the Billboard top 200. And I'm pretty sure that no rap song has topped the Billboard hot 100 either. So Neil, what do you make of all of this? [00:03:04] Neil Shah: It's pretty striking that rap has not topped either of these charts, the Hot 100 or the Billboard 200. To put it into some context, in 2019, 17 rap albums Hit number one on the Billboard 200. 17. In 2020, another 17 did. basically last year, we started to see a slowdown on this front where there were fewer number one hits on these two charts in rap and hip hop and R& and then now this year, we have this striking reality that rap has been absent in this way, which I believe it, we haven't seen something like this. Since about 1993. So yeah, think it's gen

We can’t tell the story of hip-hop without mentioning Diddy and the record label he started. Bad Boy took off in 1993 after Puff was fired from Uptown Records. He brought TheNotorious B.I.G. with him from Uptown Record, and signed a 50-50 deal with Clive Davis’s Arista Records, and it was off to the races. Bad Boy survived the tragic fallout of the East Coast vs. West Coast rivalry, and reached even bigger heights after Biggie’s death. Puff began to rise as a solo artist, but did the rest of the artists suffer as a result? Friend of the pod, Zack O’Malley Greenburg, joins me on this episode to cover 30 years of Bad Boy Entertainment. Here’s what we hit on: 0:35 Sean Combs come-up story 5:16 Diddy breaks in with Uptown Records 8:22 Starting Bad Boy Records 14:11 What sets Diddy apart 21:04 How Diddy controlled the narrative 23:58 Bad Boy’s formula for success 29:00 East Coast vs. West Coast rivalry 30:39 Bad Boy’s historic 1997-98 run 45:42 Bad Boy curse? 48:44 Diddy’s reputation compared to Cash Money 54:50 Best signing? 55:19 Best business move? 57:19 Best dark horse move? 1:00:19 Missed opportunity? 1:08:52 Possibility of biopic? Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guests: Zack O’Malley Greenburg, @zogblog This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Zack Greenburg: Diddy's ability to sort of walk the line and step back, you know, I think that's what ultimately kept Bad Boy in the position that, you know, that stayed and kept him in the position that he continued to be in. [00:00:09] Dan Runcie Outro Audio: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:00:35] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is another case study style breakdown, and this time we chose to dive deep on the one, the only Bad Boy Entertainment when it comes to branding and when it comes to marketing. I don't know if there's another record label that has as identifiable as a sound of vibe as bad Boy, you knew what that vibe was. Puff said it himself, they take hits from the eighties, but do it sound so crazy? And that was the formula, and it worked time and time again. What Puff did was smart, it was a modern approach to how Berry Gordy approached the record business with Motown. But then he put his own spin on it, interning with Andre Harrell at Uptown Records, learning from him and then putting his own spin on it even more, making it relevant for the 90s and truly becoming the icon that was synonymous with shiny suits with that Bad Boy flavor. And so much of the success of one of the best MCs ever, the Notorious BIG, some of the most iconic R&B groups at the time, and singers such as Faith Evans, 112 and many more. And plenty of artists that unfortunately also had plenty of challenges and issues when it came to payment, drama, legal disputes and more. And we dive into all of that. I'm joined again by Zack O'Malley Greenburg. He wrote a book called Three Kings, where he dived deep into Diddy, as well as Dr. Dre and Jay-Z in this book, so he's well-versed and shared a bunch of great stories in this one. So let's dive in, really excited for this one. Hope you enjoy it. [00:02:06] Dan Runcie: We are back to talk about the wondrous world that Sean Combs built himself Bad Boy entertainment and joined by the one and only Zach Greenburg. Welcome back [00:02:15] Zack Greenburg: Oh, thanks for having me, Dan. [00:02:17] Dan Runcie: Bad Boy is so fascinating because Puff is someone who has in many ways been this larger than life character even before people knew him externally as that. And he has really stayed true with that throughout his time in hip hop and even before then. And most people know the origin story starting back in his days at Howard. But I think based on the research you've done, I know you have some backstory with some of the lessons and some of the things he did even before that. So walk us back. Who was puff in the early days before the world? Got to know him. [00:02:52] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, I mean, you know, I think the funny part is that, that puffy was always puffy and, you know, it just took a while for a little while for the world to kind of figure it out. But you know, there are these kind of consistent themes when you go back through his youth and you, kind of get a sense of who he was. And, you know, I remember writing my book Three Kings, you know, Diddy being one of these k

Music streaming’s payout model is under a microscope. The industry’s stakeholders — the labels, DSPs, artists, and rights holders — all want more of the pie, but no one can agree on how. Should we stick with the pro-rata model that pools all streams together? Or move to the user-centric model that some DSPs have tested out? Should longer songs count more than a 30-second audio track? What if that artist you choose to start your music session with gets paid more than an algorithmic play? How can we stop the fraud? Would all these problems get solved if prices increased?. These questions are all up for debate. As growth slows down, everyone wants more of the pie. To discuss, I’m joined by Bloomberg’s Lucas Shaw to break it all down. Here’s everything we discussed: [0:42] How this debate started [6:59] Proposed multiplier model [10:43] Pro-rata vs. fan-centric models [13:54] Factoring streaming duration without fraud [17:38] Will big players budge? [19:22] Monetizing fandom [27:21] What if Spotify raises its prices? [29:48] 2024 predictions [32:11] Bloomberg’s Screentime conference Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guests: Lucas Shaw, @Lucas_Shaw This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Lucas Shaw: The artist are one constituency, and the record labels or another, the artist could say, well, we might be happier if the record labels gave us a bigger share. And so, the best way, again, to keep all of those constituencies happy is to just grow the pie instead of reallocating and trying to sort of tilt it towards the big player. [00:00:29] Dan Runcie Intro Audio: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:00:55] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is all about streaming. It's the platform that saved the music industry, and lately it's been the platform that has sparked countless debates on how best to compensate rights holders, the artists, and the underlying companies that provide these services. This has been a polarizing topic ever since the beginning of streaming, but these topics have intensified recently for a few reasons. First, growth is starting to slow down. We're no longer in the 2017, 20 18, 20 19. Fast growth rate of streaming. Growth is starting to slow, and whenever the pockets tighten up, people get more concerned about how that current pot of money is split. Second, two of the biggest major record labels, universal and Warner, have went public in recent years, and there's more pressure, especially from those new shareholders. That wanna see returns for the big investments that they made. So how does this all shape the broader questions around how big the pie is, how the pie gets split, and what are the best ways to increase that pie? So join me in this discussion. I'm joined by Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg. He also is a frequent guest on the Town with Matt Bellamy, highly recommend that podcast if you haven't yet. And on today's episode, Lucas and I break it all down, all the facets, all the interests of the various stakeholders. It would make a few predictions in how we think this whole dynamic, this whole debate, how we think it plays out. Here's the episode. Hope you enjoy it. [00:02:16] Dan Runcie: All right. We have Lucas Shaw here with us from Bloomberg. First time on the pod, welcome. [00:02:21] Lucas Shaw: Yeah. Thanks for having me. Excited to chat. [00:02:23] Dan Runcie: Yeah. This is a topic I know you've written about. It's something I've been thinking a lot about. I feel like for years now, the debates around music streaming, model payouts have been going on for a while. Things definitely intensified the beginning of this year, and we're seeing more comments, more partnerships, but still not much movement. But every time I see this, I feel like I just always gravitate back towards. The record labels and the streaming services have two different incentives on what growth looks like, what success looks like, and I feel like that's the underlying problem towards, with so much of this. What's your take on it? [00:02:59] Lucas Shaw: Yeah, I mean, it's funny for a while there Well, when YouTube first came around and Spotify and streaming, there was all this tension between music companies and streaming services because music companies felt like tech companies had sort of killed their business, and blamed them for a lot of their problems. And we

What’s the role of a music video today? In the 1980s, music videos flipped the industry thanks to MTV. Videos helped artists like Michael Jackson and Madonna become cultural icons. Record labels spent millions on music videos to promote their CD sales. Everyone was winning. Music videos don’t hold the same power today in the streaming era. The budgets are smaller, but they still get made. To break it all down, I was joined by MIDiA Research analyst Tati Cirisano. Here’s what we covered: 0:52 What is the role of a music video today? 2:15 MTV’s role in music videos 7:46 Comparisons to TikTok 11:27 Music video budgets peaked in mid-90s 14:30 Napster changed everything 17:27 Music videos as career launchpads 18:50 YouTube revitalizes music videos 25:44 Range of video budgets 31:04 Big dollars going to documentaries and short films 32:53 Rise of lyric videos 41:42Does YouTube have a music video formula? 44:09Measuring ROI of music videos in 2023 Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guests: Tati Cirisano, @tatianacirisano This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Tati Cirisano: There's an argument to be made that MTV like almost invented the music video or almost like made music videos a thing because having that audience there and having that like cultural impact is what led to bigger budgets for music videos so I almost feel like MTV gets credit for like kind of inventing the music video. [00:00:19] Dan Runcie Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:00:47] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: This episode is all about music videos and what their value prop is in the industry today. Back in the MTV era, the role of a music video was clear. This was your four minute opportunity to sell the hell out of your artist and for your label to promote its artist. Yet fans bought into the lifestyle, the identity, the persona of this person, and get them to go to Sam Goody, go to Tower Records and buy the albums. It was a marketing channel and it was a marketing channel that the record labels were continuing to put money into, and as the effectiveness continued to grow, they put more and more. Into that and that budget exploded. By the time we got to the mid to late 90s, we saw music video budgets hitting millions of dollars, and artists were doing out of this world things in these videos. But we slowly started to see those budgets slash. Went at the introduction of Napster and the CD era started to decline and the money was no longer flowing the way that it once was. But we started to see music videos take a new turn in the YouTube era. And now in the TikTok era, what is the ROI of a music video? What role do they serve in today's industry? And to break it down, we're enjoying by Tati Cirisano, an analyst at MIDia Research. He's been on the podcast a bunch of times, and this topic was right up her alley. So we talked a bit about that and more. Hope you enjoy this episode. Here's our breakdown on the role of music videos in today's industry. [00:02:16] Dan Runcie: All right. Today we are going to take a trip down memory lane to the wonderful World of Music videos, how this art form has evolved over the years. And I'm joined by Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research, Tati welcome. [00:02:28] Tati Cirisano: Thank you. Good to be back once again. [00:02:31] Dan Runcie: Yeah, definitely. Can I start with a story? You mind if I start with a story with this one? So, a couple weeks ago I was catching up with, CEO from one of the major record labels. This is someone that if you're probably listening to this household, if you're probably listening to this podcast, you probably know, and they run a label that is also a household name, and they were telling me about a conversation they had with an artist who is also a household name and how this artist wanted to have a million dollar plus seven plus figure, multi-million dollar music video budget because they wanted to make this big splash with what they were doing. And the CEO was like, no, I'm not giving you that. Like, what do you think this is? And for context, this is a artist who hasn't had a big hit since George Bush's first term. Let me say that roughly, just to give some context here. So, So it's been some time, but I also was a bit surprised because this is someone who seemed like they were up with the times in tech, and I remember asking the la

Even by today’s standards, Ice Spice’s meteoric rise is something else. She first hit it big in August 2022 with the viral release of “Munch.” Since then, Ice Spice has the most top 5 hits on the Billboard 100 in 2023 and guest appeared on Taylor Swift’s Eras Tour. How did we get here? Her aura, her music, her cinnamon-colored curls, and more have helped her stand out in an oversaturated industry. To explain how Ice Spice’s star was born and where it could go next, I brought on friend of the pod, Denisha Kuhlor. Here’s what we covered: [2:07] The People’s Princess [4:11] Ice Spice’s success by the numbers [6:23] “Always shipping” has kept Ice Spice’s momentum [7:26] Performing on Taylor Swift’s Eras Tour [09:49] What makes Ice Spice unique? [13:24] Artists’ relatability factor [20:27] Cultivating the Munchkins fanbase [24:00] What is a music global superstar in 2023? [31:39] Sexist dialogue around female rappers [35:56] How female rappers stand out [42:03] Ice Spice’s intentions Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guests: Denisha Kuhlor, @denishakuhlor This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Denisha Kuhlor: What is interesting about, Ice Spice is they feel like everyone's learning in real time, and they feel like they get to be a part of it. So in some ways, I do think that her fan base is interesting because it's like they're co-creating a bit, in a way that hasn't that other artists, maybe they've wanted to, but like the true actual product and creation to a product process hasn't been as interactive as, hasn't been as interactive as before. There's no wall the way with other artists. There's Really no wall. It feels like the conversations or the quote tweets that she's having on Twitter really feel like conversations amongst friends from how they crack jokes to the colloquialisms that are there. [00:00:45] Dan Runcie Audio Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:01:13] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Two years ago. Ice Spice was a college student at SUNY Purchase doing her thing, like most college students do today. She's had one of the most Meteoric rises, especially in the past year. Everything that's happened in ice spices career since she dropped Munch last summer. It has been very fascinating to watch how a star blows up in 2023. In 2023 in this era that we're in now. And today's episode is a breakdown on that. What does it all mean? How did she get here? What did Ice Spice do differently that other artists right now haven't been able to do to reach the levels that she has? And how do we make sense of it all with what to expect with her career moving forward? If you ask the people on her team, whether that's the record labels, the management, the folks that she's working with, they think they have the next global superstar on their hands, but what does that term even mean, and what does that term mean today in an era where it's harder than ever for today's bright young stars to reach the same levels that the past global superstars have reached, especially for an artist from the us. To break it all down, we're joined by friend of the show, Denisha Kuhlor, who's the founder of Stan. She does great work in analyzing artist strategies and looking at Ice Spice and the Munchkins was a great opportunity for us to dive in. So here's our deep dive on Ice Spice. Hope you enjoy it. [00:02:35] Dan Runcie: All right, today we are back and we're gonna talk about the Princess Diana of hip hop, herself Ice Spice. It's only right and we're gonna talk about it and break it all down with someone who has written about her and does studies on fan bases as well. So you were the perfect person to have on Denisha Kuhlor, welcome back. Hi. Thanks for having me back. Ice Spice is so fascinating in a lot of ways because. go back to just two years ago. We weren't necessarily having conversations about her. She had released a few singles back then. Some were in collaboration with her dad, who is also a rapper. But things really blew up last summer. She puts out Munch, it becomes a drill anthem, a New York anthem. And then we just see this meteoric rise and you look at where she is now. Here are a few stats just to level set this conversation. She has 36 million monthly Spotify listeners that puts her above people like Jay-Z, Tyler the creator, Jack Harlow, the Beatles. So she's in pret

This is the breakdown on Roc-A-Fella Records. Founded in 1995 by the trio of Shawn “Jay Z” Carter (the talent), Damon “Dame” Dash (the promoter), and Kareem “Biggs” Burke (the silent partner), it became one of hip-hop’s most iconic labels. The label took time to develop. Jay’s debut album, Reasonable Doubt, is now seen as a certified classic, but took time to get that recognition. It wasn’t until 1997 when Def Jam acquired a 50 percent stake in the label and The Roc went to that next level. Roc-A-Fella then created Rocawear, Roc Films, and went on an unprecedented arena tour across the country — rare for rappers at the time. Other artists like Cam’Ron, Kanye West, Beanie Sigel, and Freeway joined the squad.. Despite the success, the founders grew apart, which led to its infamous split. To break it all down, I was joined by my friend and Jay Z biographer, Zack O’Malley Greenburg. Here’s what we covered: 1:20 Roc-A-Fella origin story 7:21 Reasonable Doubt 09:43 Friendly rivalry with Bad Boy Records 12:43 50-50 deal with Def Jam 15:59 How Roc-A-Fella’s deal compared to others 18:59 The Hard Knock Life Tour’s impact 28:32 Expanding the brand beyond Jay Z 30:32 Why Dame and Jay’s split was inevitable 38:59 Artists taking sides 44:21 Best Roc-a-Fella signing? 45:22 Best business move? 48:27 Dark Horse move? 53:02 Missed opportunity? 59:07 Will Dame and Jay ever make up? 1:00:45 Who won the most from Roc-a-Fella? Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guests: Zack O’Malley Greenburg, @zogblog This episode is brought to you by Norby, your digital marketing Swiss army knife. Get started for free with a free 2-week trial (no credit card needed) AND get 50% off for 3 months after that. Start your free trial today This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital’s free memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Zack Greenburg: I think it was really good for hip hop, and I don't think it was ever going to turn violent, but I think again, there was just this kind of like national paranoia around hip hop and, there is, you know, in waves. I think it was just a, good reminder that you can have like a spirited dispute and, it's okay and it's entertainment, you know? and it's, nothing that anybody needs to be afraid of. So, you know, of course like credit to Jay and Nas for resolving it amicably, yeah, I mean just, to have that end, you know, like very amicably I think was just so good for everybody involved. And then, you know, I think it's really fun to watch, Jay and Nas as their relationship has evolved And, you know, Nas was sort of always like the one who was sort of behind, when it came to the business of things. [00:00:46] Dan Runcie Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:01:13] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: This episode is a rewind. We're going back in the clock to the late nineties, early two thousands, and we are revisiting one of. The most iconic record labels at the time, the one and only Roc-A-Fella Records. Roc-A-Fella Records, is the record label started by Jay-Z Dame Dash, Big Burke, and went on to be one of the most iconic hip hop record labels and hip hop brands, and that's a key thing from this conversation. I was joined by my friend Zach O'Malley Greenberg. He wrote Empire State of Mind, a biography on Jay-Z, and he also wrote Three Kings that broke down Jay-Z, Dr. Dre, and Diddy's Business Moves. So he was a perfect person to have this conversation with. We talked about the highs of this record label, the lows, some of the best business moves where Jay-Z and Dame didn't see eye to eye, some of the dark horse business moves that they made. What was the best signing from Roc-A-Fella Records? Missed opportunities and more. If you enjoy the episodes we did on Cash Money and Interscope, this one will be right up your alley and we already know what it is when we're talking about Jay, Dave, and Big. So let's dive into it. Hope you enjoy it. [00:02:17] Dan Runcie: All right. We are back to do another breakdown on one of the most iconic record labels, the one and only Roc-A-Fella records, and I'm joined by someone who wrote the book on one of the most influential people behind this record label. Zack O'Malley Greenberg, welcome back, man. [00:02:33] Zack Greenburg: Thanks for having me on, Dan, as always. [00:02:36] Dan Runcie: Yeah, and with this one, I think it's good to start even before Roc-A-Fella records because this labe

Will Page returns to the show for a “state of the industry” episode. In last year’s appearance he correctly called out the slowdown in streaming subscriptions, bubbles in web3, and more. Will believes the value of copyrighted music could hit $45 billion annually when the 2022 numbers are calculated — up $5 billion from 2021, which is already an all-time high for the industry. Another massive shift is glocalisation”: the trend of local music dominating the domestic charts, as opposed to Western artists. This phenomenon isn’t just being felt in music, but across every industry, from film to education. We covered both these trends, plus many more. Here’s all our talking points: 1:33 Why the music industry is actually worth $40+ billion annually 7:03 Physical music sales on the up and up 10:47 How publisher and labels split up copyright value 16:59 The rise of “glocalisation” will impact every industry 34:39 DSP carnivores vs. herbivores 40:23 Why video vs. music streaming isn’t a perfect comparison 46:31 Music as a premium offering in the marketplace 51:38 How to improve streaming royalties 1:06:05 AI music benefits that goes overlooked 1:10:07 Will’s latest mix pays homage to Carole King Glocalisation report: https://www.lse.ac.uk/european-institute/Assets/Documents/LEQS-Discussion-Papers/EIQPaper182.pdf Will Page's 2023 Believe in Humanity: https://www.mixcloud.com/willpagesnc/2023-believe-in-humanity/ Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guest: Will Page, @willpageauthor This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Trapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by reading Trapital’s free weekly memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Will Page: I put so much emotional time and effort into making these mixes happen and going out for free. They get your DJ slots, but more importantly, it goes back to what makes me wanna work in music, which was a lyric from Mike G and the Jungle Brothers from that famous album done by the forties of Nature, where he said, it's about getting the music across. It's about getting the message across. It's about getting it across without crossing over. How can I get art across an audience without delegating its integrity? And it's such an honor to have this mixed drop in this Friday I mean, that's, made my year and we're not even into June yet. [00:00:30] Dan Runcie Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:00:56] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is all about the state of the music industry, and we're joined by the One and Only, Will Page. He is a fellow at the London School of Economics. He's an author of Tarzan Economics and Pivot, and he is the former chief economist at Spotify. Will's second time on the podcast. Now, the first time we talked all about the future of streaming and where things are going in music, and we picked that conversation, backed up. We talked about a bunch of trends including the glocalisation of music, which is from a new report that Will had recently put out. We also talked about why he values the music industry to be close to a 40 billion industry, which is much higher than a lot of the reports about recorded music itself. And we also talk about a bunch of the topics that are happening right now, whether it's ai, how streaming should be priced, the dynamic between record labels and streaming services, and a whole lot more love. This conversation will always brings it with these conversations, so I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Here's our chat. [00:02:00] Dan Runcie: All right, today we have the one and only Will Page with us who is recording from a beautiful location. I don't know if you're listening to the pod you can't see, but will tell us where you are right now. [00:02:09] Will Page: So great to be back like a boomerang on Trapital. Dan, and I'm coming to you from the Platoon Studios. Part of the Apple Company Platoon is our label services company, which is owned by Apple. They're doing great stuff with the artists like Amapiano music from South Africa. And the best place I can describe to you here, it's like a Tardus. Have you've ever seen Dr. Who? There's a tiny door in this tall yard music complex in North London just behind Kings Cross. When you enter that tiny door, you enter this maze of the well class spatial audio recording studios of Apple. And it's an honor they've given me this location to come to Trapital today. [00:02:41] Dan Runcie: Well we're gonna make the best of it here and it's always great to have you on, cuz Last year, last year's episod

UnitedMasters and Translation CEO Steve Stoute returns to the show, fresh off a new deal with R&B star Brent Faiyaz for a reported $50 million. Brent had his pick at multiple major labels, but chose to stay independent with UnitedMasters. We talk about how independent companies can compete with majors on upfront money, competitive advantages in the music industry, and more. Steve and I also chat about the industry at-large: AI, entrepreneurship, subscription prices and more. Here’s what we hit on: 2:19 The ups and downs of entrepreneurship 06:11 Building two companies at once 10:56 Positioning UnitedMasters in the music distribution space 13:16 Does anyone in music have a moat? 15:56 Why Brent Faiyaz chose to sign with UnitedMasters 27:33 Should the DSPs raise prices? 30:07 Artists and creators becoming mini-media channels 36:58 How NIL (name, image, likeness) is like the independent music business 37:19 Is Steve going to strike more NIL deals? 45:52 Why every artists needs a Chief Technology Officer 54:30 Separating real from hype: blockchain, to web3, to AI Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Guest: Steve Stoute, @SteveStoute This episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fm Trapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by reading Trapital’s free weekly memo. TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Steve Stoute: They used to have a moat, but no longer do they have a moat. And I don't think anybody independent music has a moat. I think Distro kid has a lane and TuneCore has a lane, and United masses have a lane. And, you know, others have, certain strengths about them. but, I think the only moat you have is the moat that is a true result of the success that you have. If people choose you and you build a strong business, and you're growing, that's the quote unquote moat. [00:00:27] Dan Runcie Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. [00:00:55] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode covered a wide range of topics, but the key thing that's central to it is artist independence, and we're able to sit down with none other than Steve Stoute, who is the founder and CEO of United Masters founder and c e o of translation, and has been working in music and entertainment. For decades now. This is actually his third time on the podcast, and we covered it all. We started the conversation talking about motivations and how you were able to stay consistent as an entrepreneur, given the ups and downs of that lifestyle. Then we talked about translation, United Masters, Artist Independence, a bunch of trends happening right now and how. A company stays through all of the waves of technology waves, whether it's blockchain from a couple years ago to web three to where things are with AI now. Really fun conversation. Steve always brings it in these talks too, so it's a really great listen, hope you enjoy it. Here's our conversation. [00:01:53] Dan Runcie: All right. We're back with the Trapital podcast. Yeah. We got the one and only Steve Stoute here. I think this is your third time on the pod. [00:02:00] Steve Stoute: Really? I thought. I guess I thought it was twice. Thought This was my second time. [00:02:04] Dan Runcie: We did one time. We was at Empire Studio there. Yeah. We did it virtual during the pandemic, and then we got this one. [00:02:11] Steve Stoute: Oh, well, I'm fan of it. very early. You were? Yeah, I was on it very, very early. I think you're a good job. [00:02:18] Dan Runcie: Appreciate that. [00:02:18] Steve Stoute: Thanks for having me back. [00:02:19] Dan Runcie: Thank you. Yeah. These conversations are always good. And I wanna start this one and a place we haven't started others. I feel like we normally dive into the business, but take it a step back. You've been building businesses as an entrepreneur for decades now. How do you stay even keeled? How do you stay consistent with it, just knowing the ups and downs that naturally happen with building businesses? [00:02:42] Steve Stoute: Well, the fact that I appear to be even keeled is a compliment because, I certainly am emotionally attached to the businesses I build. I know there's, you know, the saying, don't be emotional about business, but when I'm building something from an original idea that I have, it's, you birthed the idea. I'm emotionally attached to the success of it, and the organization around it and the perception of it. So, you've been through those tumultuous cycles, so you tend to not chase the highs or chase the lows. and that sounds good. but it is definitely harder to